Ep 1285 | Muslims Are Dreaming of Jesus. Missionary Reveals Miraculous Conversions | Tom Doyle

If you are looking to refinance or maybe you are looking to get into the home that you need or your family wants right now, then you need to call my friends at Fellowship Home Loans. Mike and Brian are the real deal. They are going to bring you excellent service and help you get in the financial position that you need to maybe get some extra margin in your finances if you need to refinance or to make sure that you get the mortgage that you need for the home that you are looking to purchase. They do their business by the book, not just by the book, but by the book, by biblical principles. Those are the kind of people that you want to trust with such a big decision like this. If you go to fellowshiphomeloans.com, you'll get $500 of credit at closing. That's fellowshiphomeloans.com slash alley, term supply, c-site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA fellowship home loans, equal housing lender, NMLS number 819-382. Muslims in the Middle East are having dreams and visions of Jesus and many of them are hearing the gospel and coming to Christ. The headlines aren't covering this, but our guest today, Tom Doyle, has been sharing the gospel in Gaza, in other countries in the Middle East for years and the stories of Muslims both here in America and abroad becoming Christians. They're amazing and so encouraging. He's also got some tools and lessons for us for how we can share the gospel with our Muslim neighbors. This is an incredible and edifying episode that I know you are going to love. This episode is brought to you by the Dwell Bible app. Go to dwellbibleapp.com, download the app. You can not only read the Word of God, but you can listen to the Word of God. So when you're busy, you don't have time for a sit down quiet time. When you're doing the dishes, you're in the carpool line. You can listen to the Word of God and stay on track to read the Bible in a year, if that's a goal that you have. You can get 25% off your subscription at dwellbibleapp.com slash Alley. Tom, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you do? Yeah. So I'm Tom Doyle and with uncharted ministries and privileged to write books on what's really happening in the Middle East behind the news. And so I think we've seen the terrorism, we see the bloodshed, we see the Islamic takeovers of countries, but that doesn't nullify the gospel. Jesus said, upon this rock, I will build my church and the gates of hell will bust through. You know, we'll bust through the gates of hell. And that's what's happening in places like Tehran and Gaza city and Syria. Muslims are coming to faith in Christ. And so that's the story that nobody gets to hear. So we get to talk about that today. Yeah, I want to hear it. So tell us what is really going on in the Middle East. Well, I think, you know, I think October 7th was a day like, well, 1979 was a big year. If you look at 1979, the ayatollah took over Iran, Saddam Hussein comes into power in Iraq, Russia invades Afghanistan, Egypt and Israel sign a peace treaty, and Anwar Sadat gets killed in the midst of it. But there's always a spiritual answer that happens, a spiritual solution. That was the year the campus crusade released the Jesus film. And that flooded the Middle East, it flooded the rest of the world. But in our lifetime, much later, October 7th, 2023, the horrible attack from Hamas on Israel. And it felt like Israel got about two hours of sympathy. And then all of a sudden it turned and anti-Semitism just came popping up out of the soil, was all over the place. People were not hiding it. I remember the next week, there was a march at UCLA, and they're going down the street yelling, Ju Ju, you can't hide, we'll get you with genocide. I mean, I was shocked. Nobody gets called in to the dean's office for that. And it was like the radicals became empowered, started seeing things in Europe, sort of seeing things in the United States, six countries going after Israel. And so the game was on and Israel defended herself. But in the midst of it, there are Muslims in all those surrounding countries that are frustrated with endless wars, tribalism, a religion that constricts, I mean, for Sharia law, for women, I mean, it's horrible what they have to go through. And so the word that we hear in the Middle East among young people is hopelessness. But all of a sudden, Jesus comes in with this hope and changes everything. So right now, we're seeing really in the last 10 years, more Muslims have come to faith in Christ than in 1400 years of Islam. Wow. I mean, that's shocking. So it's not going to be on the news. I don't even think they would know how to spin that really, how they would tell that, but it's happening. So there's an exodus, less than 30% of the population in Iran practices Islam. But yet, there's the big bully in the Middle East. So that's what we focus on. But it's the fastest growing church per capita in the world. So there's good signs and the body of Christ is moving forward and it's pretty exciting to see. Yeah. And your ministry is on the ground in the Middle East, sharing the gospel and equipping churches. What does that look like? So we have national leaders in all the countries around Israel and then in Pakistan and people we work with in Iran and so many things happening. I mean, people wouldn't know this, but in the last year, a million Bibles got into Iran. The Iranian church is fast growing. They couldn't get Bibles. And so people that were willing to risk were taking them in in trucks and things were happening inside the country where they are being run off. And so it's discipling the new believers and really preparing them for persecution. Because if you live in Gaza and your name is Mohammed and you come to faith in Christ and you tell one person, you're going to be persecuted. And so that's what's exciting about this young church is that they're willing to suffer and they're willing to count the cost. So there are so many stories that we get and now we're getting them almost daily from around the world of dramatic salvation stories in the midst of places where they could be killed for sharing with one person. So it's building up the secret church, the underground church. We say the underground church that kind of took on a bad meeting with the underground in Gaza with the tunnels and all that. So the secret church is emerging throughout the Middle East. Can you tell us one of those stories of a dramatic conversion? Yeah. Oh my gosh. There was a young man in Gaza. We got to know his wife. Well, her name is Akram. And so 20 years ago, we were in the Gaza Strip in a refugee camp and we're just doing food, passing out food. And you have to go through Hamas to get in the refugee camp. And so we do that. And we're just giving out food and meeting people. And there's a young lady named Akram. So we asked her, okay Akram, what's your goal in life? She's 20 years old. She went to Gaza University and she said, well, I think my goal in life is to get a job, graduate from college, get a job, and then one day have enough money to buy a laptop computer. That was it. I mean, that was the ceiling, I thought. Oh my gosh. I just happened to tell that story in a church in Atlanta. And a guy came up afterwards and said, I brought a brand new Toshiba last night. I'm giving it to Akram. And I said, no, I wasn't asking. He goes, no, no, no, we're doing this. And so nine months later, my wife, Joanne, and I go back and we find the refugee camp. And Ali Beth is just, there's no street signs. There's dead animals. It's just awful. But we find Akram's place. And we said, Akram, remember that dream you had? And she said, yeah. And then we said, well, Jesus made it happen. And Joanne takes out a brand new computer. And it was like giving someone the keys to a brand new car. She was just, I can't believe it. So, and we didn't want to miss this opportunity. We'd loaded every Christian program in Arabic on that computer Bible versions, worship, everything within months. She comes to faith in Christ gloriously. Well, you write her story in one of the books we've written, but she says, when you write my story, would you tell the people to pray for my husband? His name is Mohammed. And he's just not a good man. He's never given me a present. He's never on our wedding, birthday, anniversary, nothing. He treats me terrible. So we did. People right in the middle of the book would say, Hey, stop, pray for Mohammed now. Which when you say that, pray for Mohammed in the Gaza Strip. That's like praying for half of the Gaza Strip right there. Everybody's named Mohammed. And so there, people are praying. And dramatically he calls one day on WhatsApp. And he has, is ready to meet Jesus. His life changed. Ali Beth, you just can't believe where he was and what happened after that. He started reading the Bible. He started sharing his faith. He would send me Bible texts. I couldn't believe the depths of his Bible texts. I said to him one day, Mohammed, where are you getting these texts on the internet? And he said, well, I write them. Tom, I write them. And I said, wow, you have a passion for Jesus. I'm just amazed. And he said, well, I hang out with my four best friends every day. And I said, who are they? I thought it was something that he'd led to faith in Christ. He said, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, I'm in the word. I'm studying the Bible. And so he started growing, sending these texts. October 7th happens. Israel gets invaded. And then the Hamas comes back. They've got all the captives and he is texting saying, I can't believe they're doing this to no human being should be forced to endure this. Hamas is making a stand in the front. They want us to cheer, but I'm crying. I'm crying because this should never happen. And so he started texting, tell the Israeli soldiers, they will have them in the city below the city. So we knew about a tunnel here and there being in Gaza several times. We didn't know it was bigger than the subway system in London. And so he's sending out messages to believers in Israel and they're messaging back. We want to help the Palestinians. We don't want to hurt them. And just going back and forth, that is true reconciliation. Only the UN can't pull that off. That's only Jesus can do that. So the life change that we see with Muslims is we know that's what Jesus said would happen. But to see it, it's just, it just warms your heart because we realize, okay, yeah, there is Christian persecution, but we're not out there just getting creamed. The body of Christ is advancing. Muslims are coming to faith in Christ and they're willing to die for their faith. First sponsor is Adele Natural Cosmetics. I've been using Adele Natural Cosmetics products for years. I love their makeup. I love their skincare. I use their essential cleanser, their essential moisturizer. I love their lotions as well. They've got a new product, a lip conditioner, which is amazing, especially in these winter months when it's windy, it's cold outside and your skin just gets really dry. Adele makes sure that your skin is staying nice and moisturized. And this is really one of the best anti-aging tricks. Not that we're trying to stop aging, but we want to age beautifully is keeping your skin moisturized with really natural holistic products. That's what you're going to get from Adele. Plus Arlene and her family, they're the real deal, salt of the earth people. They love the Lord. They're unapologetically pro-life. That's why on all of their packaging, they have Bible verses. They're just great people, great company, awesome products. Go to AdeleNaturalCosmetics.com, use code ALI. You'll get 25% off your first purchase. That's AdeleNaturalCosmetics.com, code ALI. What do Muslims believe about Jesus? What does the Quran teach about Jesus? So they believe, first of all, that the Bible is corrupted, that it's been changed. They believe that Jesus is not the Son of God. They believe that he did not die on the cross at the last minute. The body was switched. Some believe that it was Judas. And so they have all kinds of convoluted ideas. But yet on the other hand, there's some very good verses in the Quran about Jesus that talk about him with glowing terms more than Muhammad talks about anybody in the Quran. So there's kind of a mixed bag. And as you talk with Muslims, if you quote from the Quran, they will be shocked at the good words about Jesus. And of course, a part of all of that, why they would be shocked is the estimate is like 60% of all Muslims globally never read the Quran. They don't know what's in it. They hear things from the Imam, but they don't read it. It's just duty and rules and culture and everything Ramadan. They got to be a part of that. So many of them don't know anything. And it's a religion that swept that area with death or conversion, or to pay a tax for protection. And so I think these were flimsy conversions. It was just to save their neck. Those who converted to Islam. Yeah. And generations later, many are starting to think outside the box, like, wait a minute, I'm not sure I even believe this. So anyway, in the worst, we would say the worst places to be a believer are really the best places because the just complete faith in Christ, trust Him alone for everything. Yeah. I imagine that not everyone is receptive to the message of the gospel. Have you felt hostility from some Muslims? Obviously, this is blasphemy and to leave is apostasy. And you can be put to death under Sharia for Muslims especially. But what has that been like for you? Well, you know, we've gotten thrown off the Temple Mount up in Jerusalem a couple of times from imams up there as we were sharing things about the Dome of the Rock. We were going through the West Bank with the cross. Arthur blessed, took a cross into every country in the world. He's now with the Lord. So we were going through Jericho. It's in the West Bank, very radical Muslims, some bad cell groups there, terrorists. Anyway, but we were going through with the cross. You could not believe it, the people that wanted to come up and touch the cross and ask questions. I mean, it was, they were all Muslims. But there was one guy, I could see, looking out a shop at me and it looked like he had steam coming out of his ears. And I thought, he's going to be coming after me. So, so he does. And he just makes a beeline for me. And he goes, Mr. Christian, I'll convert to Christianity if you tell me this. His name was Nimor. Why did, if Jesus was God, why didn't he come down off that cross? So his thinking, Elibeth, is this, he's thinking of Mohammed on the cross. If Mohammed's on the cross, followers would have taken him off. They would have caused a war, captured everybody, killed him. That's all he can think through. And I said, I said, oh, Nimor, that, you know what, that's a really good question. It's an easy one too. And he said, it's easy. And I said, yeah, the reason he didn't come off the cross is because he didn't want to come off the cross. I have sin in my life. And I'm sure you've done a few bad things yourself. And he, well, and so he stayed there on purpose. Jesus said, no one takes my life. I lay it down voluntarily. So that's why he did it for you and for me. Well, he stormed off. He didn't, he didn't like the truth. But you do see that. And, and of course, there's the threats. And our team, our uncharted team in Syria, they actually, there were 10 leaders and it was in the midst of the war. And the national leader told the young team, it's getting worse. And they were already hanging Christians on cross. This ISIS was doing that. Let's take a week and pray and fast. If you want to stay here with your family, okay, I'm staying. But if you need to get out to Lebanon or try to immigrate to the States, we understand that. But let's pray in a week later, see what happens. So he came back a week later and he said, as he was putting his hand of the doorknob in that room that was under a house, he thought, is anyone going to be in there? And he opened the door and it wasn't the 10 men, they'd recruited 15 more. And they said, we're staying and we're prepared to die for Jesus. And so they went out because they are former Muslims, former Al-Awaiths like Bashar Assad was an Al-Awaith, former Druze. They went out and bought a piece of land so they can bury each other when they die for Jesus. And through all this ISIS and now HDS taking over, which is ISIS rebranded, nobody's been killed. Nobody's been killed. They should have been. They've been chased by Hamas, they've been interrogated, they've been thrown in jail. Everybody's alive. So they will send correspondences to us. And this is happening. This many people got saved and oh, and by the way, the graveyard's still empty. So wow, they're heroes of the faith. Next sponsor is Seven Weeks Coffee. We love Seven Weeks Coffee in our home. It is the Pro-Life Coffee Company. They're called Seven Weeks because a Seven Weeks gestation that baby inside the womb is the size of a coffee bean. Yet he or she, even though they are so small, they are fully made and got the image and they matter. That's why Seven Weeks Coffee donates a percentage of every sale to pregnancy centers across the country that are saving these little baby lives. Plus, it's high quality coffee. It's sustainably sourced. It is better than organic. It's totally clean, pesticide free. It tastes really good. It's just a win all around. Plus, if you subscribe, get that box of coffee to your front door every month, you save 15%. And when you use MyCode Alley, a checkout, you save an extra 10%. That's SevenWeeksCoffee.com Code Alley. Tell me how you started Uncharted. Like, how did God place this mission on your heart? So, we started doing trips to Israel in 95. I went to Dallas Seminary and we did a trip and I just was hooked and so interested in the Bible and history and Jewish roots and all that, really not tracking with the Muslims whatsoever. And I have a pastor, my wife Joanne, and we have six kids and 17 grandkids now. That's amazing. Praise God. What a blessing. I know. It's a tribe. So, anyway, not tracking at all with that. One day, I had to get my car fixed in Denver. We lived in the Colorado Springs area. So, I'm up there. I don't know. It's before the year 2000. The car wasn't ready. Joanne drops me off in the mechanic says, oh, it's not ready. Can you go to this place across the street? We'll pay for your lunch. It's a Middle East restaurant. So, I go in and I should say this. My dad was an FBI agent, organized crime specialist. So, I grew up in Las Vegas, born in Chicago, Mafia. We're around Mafia. I went to Catholic school, third grade in Las Vegas. This is why you're not intimidated by it. Yeah, the old part of it. Yeah, the only kid that didn't have an Italian last name, Parisi Serino-Coste, all that. Anyway, so, I'm up in Denver and, okay, go to this little place across the street. It's Middle East restaurant. Well, I like falafel. So, I get a falafel and a diapepseum sitting there. Two guys walk in and they're closer than you are. In a little table, black leather jackets, closely cropped beards, Arabs, and there's whispering in Arabic. And I thought they're going to do a terrorist act. I mean, I should probably phone this in now. I mean, these guys have the look, whispering in Arabic, and just going back and forth, kind of looking around. And I thought, oh, so obvious, these guys are terrorists. I'm an FBI kid. I know these things. What year was this? So, this would have been like 99. Okay. Okay. So, anyway, one of them speaks in English and just looks over at his friend and says, Mach Moud, the Lord is amazing, isn't he? And I just want, that kind of sounds like stuff we say as Christians. That's kind of where they go back to Arabic, they're whispering. Then finally, the other guy just says, you know what? In English, Mohammed Jesus is Lord over Syria. And I just looked at him and I said, are you guys believers? They said, yeah, are you? And I was like, yeah, I used to be. I mean, before I judged you and that and thought you were terrorists. And come on over. And they sat me down and started telling me what was happening in Syria and how Muslims were coming to faith in Christ. I'd never heard this. I didn't even think about it. Sadly, I wasn't praying for it either, sadly. They started telling me, come to our house for dinner. And so I'm calling Joanne. You're not going to believe this story. And I just heard story after story. They were so energized, brother, it's so wonderful to meet you. And I thought, I've got to find out more about this. So then we end up going on an, on a mission trip into the Gaza Strip. And I will never forget it. It was right after 9-11, two months. So here we are in Gaza City and, and a media, Ali Bet, this, this covered Muslim woman comes up to me, you just see her face. And she comes across this parking lot where we're just looking at some things and she grabs my arm and says, you're from America, aren't you? And I said, well, yeah, I am. She goes, I could tell by the color of your eyes. I said, okay. She goes, did you see on September 11th when the buildings came down and the people in Gaza were cheering? And I said, well, yeah, I did see that. And she goes, well, not me. I was crying for those people because they didn't deserve to die. And I'm so sorry. Please forgive our people for cheering on your worst day. She turned on a heel and walked away. And I thought, there's human beings in the Gaza Strip. I mean, I wasn't expecting this. And so then we had a chance to go that night to meet with the believers in an apartment building filled with Muslims, all or except there's one little apartment. And they were singing. They were reading the scriptures. They were talking about Muslims that they'd shared the gospel with. And I thought, this is the book of Acts. I mean, this is like chapter 29. You got to be kidding me. This is, they would be killed for doing what they're just talking about. And so anyway, we launched into missions and then Uncharted came along in 2017. And I found the truth, which is our video ministry that shows, gives testimonies from Muslims that came to faith in Christ. And so many of them, Ali Beth were visions and dreams and things that happened, just unreal, some of the stories that you hear. But the acid test is this, they walk away from Islam, and they're willing to die for their faith. Because people say that all the time. Well, how do you know it's legit? I'm not sure there were a lot of people in the church I pastor that were willing to die for their faith, but they are. That's the acid test. Next sponsor is Good Ranchers. This is the year, the year of America's 250th birthday that you want to put America first, not just in how you vote, but also in how you spend your money. You want to support American farms and ranches rather than getting your meat from the grocery store, which is meat just shipped in from abroad. You don't even know the quality. You want to support those American farmers and ranchers that have really served as the backbone of American industry. Plus Good Ranchers is a Christian family owned company. They're the real deal. Even their customer service team is in-house. So if you ever have questions about your subscription or the meat or any of their products, then you can just talk to their customer service team and they are so good. We've been relying on Good Ranchers for about five years in our home. Having a freezer full of all American meat is such a peace of mind. It makes my life easier that it's shipped to my front door on dry ice. It's just a great way to make your life healthier and to make sure you're putting America first in how you spend your money. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use code ALI. You'll get $25 off your first order. Good Ranchers.com code ALI. You mentioned that you had kind of been skeptical of the whole like dreams and vision thing, me too. But you say that you've heard from the Axe Muslims who were visited by Jesus in their dreams. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, we ended up writing a book about it and here I'm the guy that didn't believe in it. But I'm sitting in Jerusalem in a Bible study and there's Jews and Muslims. It's a reconciliation group. They don't hate each other. They love each other, transformed in Christ. So we're going around each one is just sharing their name. The guy next to me is his name's Muhammad. And I said, wow, crazy name to have as a follower of Jesus. Were you just dying to get out of Islam and have a relationship with God? And he said, no, I thought I was right and you guys were wrong. I said, well, what happened, man? He said, well, it's simple. Jesus started coming to me every night in dreams for 30 nights in a row. He goes, it's pretty hard to just push that away and say that didn't happen. He would tell me that he loved me. He said, it got to the point. I couldn't wait to go to bed at night because I was hoping Jesus would come in a dream and he would come and he would talk with me. And so since then, it's just unbelievable. We estimate that about one out of every three Muslims that comes to faith in Christ has had a dream or a vision of Jesus. It may be half now. There was a team that was in Jordan getting trained from Saudi Arabia on how to do secret church, 39 people. They didn't know each other. They were all from different areas that found out through the internet. They came this conference and the leader asked at the end, how many of you had a dream about Jesus or vision before he came to faith in Christ all 39? Wow. So it's happening. It's a revolution and I just had to lay down this. I was talking with my old professor at Dallas Seminary on Moody Radio and telling him. He said, tell some dream stories. I said to Charlie, here's a story in Iran. Here's another one. He said, you need to write a book about Muslims having dreams about Jesus. And I said, and this is a foolish statement. I said, yeah, I'd like to do that. I don't know what evangelicals would think about it. And he said, you know what? We evangelicals need to get over ourselves. God can do whatever he wants. Over 200 times in the Bible, there were dreams. Maybe he's using that today. And so. Yeah. Why do you think that Jesus seems to be using dreams as a way to communicate with these people? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here in the States, but as a pastor of a church, I'm sure you didn't come across as, you know, very many of your congregants who were there because they saw Jesus in a dream. So why do you think that seems to be happening more prevalent there? Yeah. Here's one reason. I believe it could have happened. Jesus always met people where they were. I mean, you look at the woman with the issue of blood and she was despised. And any, he said, daughter, your faith is healed. You just met her there. How would he be meeting Muslims through dreams? That's how Islam started. Muhammad went into a cave and had a dream. And he says, Jibril, who is supposed to be Gabriel, downloaded the Quran, which we don't believe that's what happened. We believe it was demonic. But so if you're with Muslims anywhere in the Middle East, and we say, Hey, I said this crazy dream last night. Hey, let's get some coffee and talk about it. I think most people in America would say, what did you eat last night? Do something disagree with you. So they see it as a viable way that God can communicate truth to them. And also the last week in Ramadan, they have a night. It's cause the middle of the last week, it's called the night of power or the night of destiny. And Muslims will cry out, God, if you're there, show me yourself. Come to me in a dream, in a vision that's the number one day of the year that Muslims have dreams about Jesus. They're crying out to God and Jesus accommodates that cry and comes to them. What about in Muslim communities in the rest of the world? We've seen Islam grow a lot, the mass migration in places like Europe, especially the UK. And some of those cities, almost, it seems 100% Muslim. What is happening in those communities or those communities turning to Christ? There are many in the, you look at the worst places like Iran, Afghanistan, amazing things happening with Muslims. We don't see a large scale where all of a sudden Rotterdam in the Netherlands has flipped over and all of those Muslims are Christian. We're not seeing that, but there are many and it's happening all over dreams, visions, people sharing the gospel, Christians praying for Muslims that are sick and all of a sudden they're well. And they know that they've been praying their whole life. Nothing's happened. They wonder if God's even there and then they're healed. So it's pretty good evidence there that something's happening. So there's a big threat. It is systematic in Europe and in America. In Dearborn, Michigan, our national leader was there. And it's like me growing up around the mafia in Chicago and Vegas, when you hear the name Genovese, you know what the family does for their business. And so our national leader, Amir Salam, was in Dearborn. He started hearing names in restaurants. He said, Tom, these are people that were thrown out of Syria. They were so radical, they kicked him out of Syria. And he said in the next 10 years, if they don't come to faith in Christ or we don't start deporting some of these radicals, we'll have another 9-11. So it's paramount that we share the gospel, not only for eternity, but for now too. And so we're grateful for people that are willing to do that with Muslims. And many times they're just waiting to hear what Christ has for them. And a lot of people, myself included, have fear in that. On the one hand, we would love for all of our Muslim neighbors to become Christians, but we are a little scared to be the ones to bridge the gap because it's not the same as sharing the gospel with the Jewish person or even with most, you know, agnostics. This is a religion that in its texts say, you know, the infidel has to die. That doesn't mean that all of our Muslim neighbors are actively practicing that, but that is inherent in the ideology. And it's scary. So what do we do? What does it look like to build those relationships, to conquer that fear and to share the gospel effectively? I think the best thing is to make a friendship. It starts one on one. You know, we've never seen mass stadium conversions that work. Maybe they do somewhere, we haven't seen it. It's one on one. We say this at Uncharted, every soul matters. So my wife, Joanne does a seminar for women, how to love Muslims to Christ. And we were in Tyler one day. And so Joanne said, okay, ladies, I'm going to give you an assignment. This week when you're out, and there are Muslims in Tyler, if you see one, your job is to go up and meet them and just start a conversation. So like, where are you from? Well, they might say, well, I'm from America. Oh, okay, well, where's your family originally from? Oh, I'm from Egypt. Oh, I've always wanted to go to Egypt, begin a conversation, begin a conversation. So it ends up that later on, we found out about that group. And there was one lady that was in the supermarket in Tyler, Texas, and a Muslim woman comes in and she goes, I'm not ready for this. I'm not ready to go up and talk to her. So she starts making these promises to the Lord. If I go down this aisle and she's on the next aisle, I'm going to talk to her. So she goes down the aisle, comes up, there she is. Okay, if it's, if she's on the next aisle, I'm going to talk, she does this three times. And finally, it ends up, she goes, okay, Lord, here I go. She goes around that corner and starts pushing her basket really fast toward this Muslim lady. Well, there was another lady that had been on the other side of the store and she comes around the corner and she's walking real fast toward this Muslim lady and she's looking like, what is this? And they were just going to meet her and get her name, and they found her to be very warm, very lonely, and they were able to get coffee with her. That's where it starts. Tell me about your life. And then what we like to do is tell gospel stories. So if we meet someone, I meet Mohammed from Lebanon, I'll just say, Hey, tell me your life. How did you get here? They might be a refugee. And then we say, wow, okay, that's an amazing story. Can I tell you a story? Sure. Okay, this is a true story from the Word of God. The Jesus friends were in about one day and the winds started whipping, the waves started splashing, we go through that story and Jesus calms the sea. And then we just end with this. And that's a true story from the Word of God. So, Hey, Mohammed, what do you think of that story? Does that make sense? Do you think it's real? What do you think? And you're getting them to engage in the Word without pulling this out, which would freak them out. And they're relating to the Bible. And then they may want to hear another story. And then after that, we say, Okay, I heard your story. We told God's story. Here's my story. Okay, what's your story? I used to be religious, but I gave it up. They'll say you're not really, no, not religious. What do you mean? There's too many rules. And when I kept the rules, I didn't feel any closer to God. And my story is really their story. That's the same way they feel. And oftentimes they want to hear more. So if you can get to that point where you share God's word, they will listen to it. And when we say this, this is a true story from the Word of God. We have never had one Muslim say, wait a minute, wait a minute. Is that from the Quran or the Bible? Never happened. Somehow there was some authority there that just stopped them in their tracks and they listened to it. Next sponsor is Concerned Women for America. From Congress to your children's schools, there is a cultural war that's raging and it's raging over your child's mind. Someone is going to disciple your child. Is it going to be you with the Word of God? Or is it going to be some radical ideologue in the school system you could decide? Concerned Women for America is trying to make sure that the school system is aligned with American values, that they're not being indoctrinated with pornography and gender confusion and anti-American sentiment. CWA focuses on seven core issues in their policy advocacy, family, sanctity of life, religious liberty, parental choice and education, fighting sexual exploitation, national sovereignty and support for Israel. From their Young Women for America Collegiate Chapters to moms, professionals, mature women, they're the most influential women's organization in our nation. If you want to see how you can get involved with your chapter, raise a respectful ruckus for the things that matter through CWA. Go to ConcernedWomen.org slash Ali for a donation of $20 or more. You can get a copy of their new book written by CEO Penny Nance, A Woman's Guide, Seven Rules for Success in Business and in Life ConcernedWomen.org slash Ali. What are some of the persistent questions that you get from Muslims that you are engaging about Christianity? What are some of the things maybe holding them back from believing that Jesus is God? Yeah, I mean they'll often say it's a white man's religion and not knowing that Christianity started in their own backyard. They don't understand that. The whole thing about Jesus saying he's the son of God, new he's just a prophet, they can't accept that. But what we do is go to passages where Jesus declares that. So if someone says, well, I don't believe that, we'll just open it up and say, well, here in John 15, it says, read this. What do you think Jesus is saying? Well, I think he's saying he's the son of God. Yeah, I think that's what he's saying too. And that just seems to bypass it. So they have struggles with that. Politics gets involved in it too. They always want to know how you voted. Man, that is a non-starter when they go down that political road. And this is mostly for Muslims in America. Yes. And around the world too, they'll want to know like what you can do. Really, what messages are they hearing that is making them think that if you vote, I'm guessing if you vote Republican, then they think you don't like me. Exactly. Interesting. So the same kind of messages that we hear in the mainstream media they're hearing too. Yeah. And I mean, when Obama was president, we would be in Egypt and I'm telling you, none of the Muslims there believed that he was a Christian because he said he went to Jeremiah Wright's church and maybe visited a few times. They said, well, you're Muslim president. I mean, they would just say it openly. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That wasn't said openly here, but it sure was out there. Yeah. That's so interesting how American media narratives and American politics, I've heard that from other people, including in Africa, we have friends that immigrated from Africa, from Kenya and Zimbabwe, and they had other immigrant friends who just told them when they got here, hey, you don't vote Republican if you're an immigrant. Which of course they are very smart people and thought for themselves and all of that. But it's interesting, and I remember the late Vodibhakum, he was the head of a seminary there in Zambia, I believe it was, and he would talk about how the narratives about systemic racism and things, which I just think are so American, actually would make their way over to places like that. That's right. And have an effect on their ideology and theology that's fascinating and troubling. Yeah, it really is. And you know what, when it comes to the threat of Islam, that we're all feeling we are. I mean, I think this verse, John 16, 1, it says this Jesus said on the night that he was betrayed, all this, I have told you so that you will not fall away. And then he says, they will put you out of the synagogue, and then there's a colon there and it stops. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are doing a service for God. They will do this because they have not known me or the Father. I think the first half of that verse, Ali Beth, is about Judaism and the early church, put them out of the synagogue, get them out of the way. There weren't mass killings, there were some killings. But I think the second half of that verse is about Islam. In fact, a time is coming when they think killing you is doing a service to God. So that's why during the 10-year war in Syria, if a vile of blood was sent to Saudi Arabia to certain people and you could prove that it was from a Christian that lost their life, you'd get $2,000. So I mean, this was just a part of it. This was well known on the streets. And so there is that side, that dark demonic side that's happening. But then there's the people that come to faith in Christ. And I think of this one girl, Dina, in the Gaza Strip that was a teacher. And the teachers in the summer have to do, it's like a Hamas vacation Bible school or something. Hamas comes in, all the school kids in a certain age group are indoctrinated. They dress them up with suicide bomb or vass. They get fake guns, they're killed the Jews, all of that. And she comes to faith in Christ that month. And then later that month, they're going to have this school where every, she has to do it. And Dina gets ahold of us and says, I'm not doing that this year. I'm talking about Jesus the Good Shepherd and that he loves us. And we're going to do crafts and we're going to read the Bible and we're going to tell them about Jesus. This is in Gaza in a wild, dark place. And so we said to her, Dina, they're going to kill you for doing that. Are you afraid of them doing that? And she said, no, I already crossed that bridge when I gave my life to Jesus. And she did it. And we got the pictures and there's kids with signs saying, I love Jesus. These are heroes of our faith. This is like Hebrews 11 today, where people are going to the worst places you can imagine and they're not afraid. Yeah. It's really convicting for us. Not that there is no danger, but it's not as present and as imminent and as sure as it is for people there. But I mean, she's basically quoting scripture by saying, look, I counted the cost when I came to Christ and I already decided that my life is, you know, it's something to be laid down for the gospel. So she already died to herself. I'm willing. That's right. She already died to herself. And that's how we should all think. So true. That's a good lesson for us from Dina about sharing the gospel here, is that it might be dangerous. Like the promise from Jesus is not that it won't be dangerous. It's not that they won't kill you. It's that they can't kill your body and soul. That's right. It's so true. And so that's a really good lesson from there. You know, so it is happening here where people are meeting Jesus and having experiences like in the Middle East. So we lived in Colorado for 20 years. Summers were nice, like shorts and a sweatshirt. We lived at 7,500 feet. And then we move here and it's like, oh my gosh, it's so hot. So it was in a meeting all day, mission meetings, like all day. And then it's time to go and it's five o'clock. And I thought, shoot, I got to pick up Joanne and she's all the way across town and we have a dinner. We're not going to make it in time. So I get up on the bush freeway and the Honda says four miles till empty. Oh gosh. So I pull off and there's three stations and there's a FINA. Okay, I'll go there. So I stick in my credit card and it says must see cashier. And I just went, oh, come on, Lord, can I get a break today? You know, I have such a tough life. And so I go into the station to put my card down and a Muslim woman walks up to me and she's covered. And she's getting it set up for me to use the pump. And I said, wow, you're Muslim. We work in the Middle East. We do humanitarian efforts and things like that. We spend a lot of time there. Where are you from? She goes, we go to the Middle East a lot. And I said, yeah. And she goes, okay, then you have to guess. I said, oh, Egypt. She goes, nope, Saudi Arabia. And I said, you're kidding. And so I said, you know, I have a book in the car about how God is honoring your people. God is lifting the Muslim people up. And she said, what do you mean by that? And I said, he's coming to them. He's coming to them all around the world. He's coming in dreams. I wrote a book about Muslims having dreams about Jesus. She said, you wrote a book about that. I said, yeah. And she goes, hmm, because I've been having dreams about Jesus. I just went, okay, Lord, forgive me for whining about the humidity. You know, I'm going to be late, whatever. And so I give her this book. And a couple of days later, I'm going to get gas. And I thought, oh, I need to stop there. And then I need to go to that pump. So I go to the pump and I stick the card and it works perfectly. Wow. See, I think it was a card malfunction. I think it was an order from God. It didn't say, please see Kesher. It said, must see Kesher. I go in and this woman, Ruiah, is reading dreams and visions. And I said, do you like this? And she goes, this book is like my life. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, Jesus has been coming to me for 30 years now in dreams. I said, 30 years. Didn't you ever ask a Christian or go to a church and try to get answers? And she goes plenty of times. But I don't know. I felt like people maybe were afraid of me because I was Muslim and that. But I just knew this, that Jesus told me that he loved me so much in these dreams. One day he was coming for me. And I said, Ruiah, I think it's today. I mean, I'm thinking this is the day. And I share the gospel through Romans. And I said, what do you think? And she said, I'm ready. We held hands in the Phena gas station and she prayed and received Christ. And it was glorious. And nobody walked in to interrupt it. How many Ruiahs are out there, Alleybeth? How many people are neighbors that, I don't know about them. The gospel is risky. And it's time for Christians to just do it. And so, we're seeing it all. One friend of ours, who's now with the Lord, they got excited about meeting Muslims and sharing with them. And they realized there was a Muslim family on their block that they'd never met for years. As they just knocked on the door and said, we're your neighbors. We haven't met you. And sorry, would you come over to our house for dinner? And they said, yes, we would love to. So, they get all excited. They're trying to make hummus and things that they would like. The family was from Coate. And they show up and the kids are just like wound up. Like, they thought they drank Red Bull on the way over. They're knocking the water over and all that. And the mom finally says, I'm so sorry. I'm humiliated. The kids are excited. And they're excited because we've lived here for 12 years. And this is the first time we've ever been invited into someone's house. And then they find out they're related to royalty in Coate. They're not exactly on the terrorist list. And so, hey, I would just say this, Muslims are open more now than ever in 14 centuries to the gospel of Jesus. They are responding and they're waiting. And so, it's up to us to go introduce them to Jesus. Last sponsor is NetSuite Bi Oracle. It is the number one AI cloud ERP. It's trusted by over 43,000 businesses. So, if you're a business owner, this is how you have one source of truth to make your processes as effective and as efficient as possible so you can spend the time leading, creating, doing the things that you want to do. Connected data is what makes your AI smarter. So, it doesn't just guess. It knows, intelligently automates routine tasks, delivers actionable insights, helps you cut costs, makes of fast AI power decisions with confidence, and you've got total flexibility. This is a tool that will help make your business better. So, whether your company earns millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you stay ahead of the pack. Right now, get their free business guide, demystifying AI at netsuite.com slash alley. That's netsuite.com slash alley. Now, a lot of these Muslims are leaving predominantly Muslim countries and the governments in places like Syria are extremely hostile. For a lot of reasons, political reasons, religious reasons as well, y'all have been blacklisted right from Syria. Is that right? Are there other countries that y'all aren't able to enter? We're not sure on a few of them. Yeah. After smuggling Bibles into Iran a couple of times, maybe. We're not sure, but I will never forget being there with the secret church and how they just needed Bibles. We were in Esfahan, which is close to a nuclear reactor that Israel just had months ago. We're just on the corner meeting people and Muslims are just stopping by. You're Americans. Are you Christians? Yeah. Do you have Bibles? Yes, we do. Just handing them out. There was a roundabout we were on and people were just going and sticking their arms out, wanting a Bible. Probably we're on the radar. I don't know, it doesn't matter, but God's word is always going to be triumphant, never returns void. It's just worth it. For those who are like, okay, I know a Muslim in our community who lives on my street or whatever, I want you to finish the rest of that story that you were talking about sharing the gospel. You said, I used to be religious, but I'm not. It was too hard to keep rules. You said that your story reflected their story, but can you bring that over the finish line so other people might be able to use that same model? Yes. Then you've heard their story and then we've heard God's story, stories about Jesus, and then our story that we used to be religious. They will resonate with that. They will resonate. We shared this exactly with a guy that was a former terrorist in Syria in Jordan. We said, that's what it's about. It's about Jesus. This guy had been hardened. Our leaders didn't like to visit him, but we didn't know that someone had met them and given him a Bible, and he and his wife started reading it. When we said, it's so simple, you can give your lives to Christ. The Bible says, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. You give your life to Christ, repenting your sins. We did that with this man and his wife, and he looked at his wife and he said, that's exactly what we've been waiting for, isn't it? She said, that's it. They were ready to pray. And so the hard job is after that, to follow them up, because that, you know, they will still be under the influence of Islam. How can they be discipled? How can you get them into the Word and help them grow? And that's really important. So it's getting them away from religion. Religion gives you rules. Jesus gives you life, and they're all looking for that. And so I think it's easy to just go into the gospel, and many Muslims may have to hear it several times before they respond. So if they don't respond, that's okay. They heard it, the next person can pick it up, whoever God leads to them. Yeah. That's so important to remember, that we are just one touch point on someone's testimony, whether you are the person that God uses to bring them over the finish line, or you're the very first Christian that they meet. There may have been 10,000 different moments that God has used in that person's life. It's so true. It's so true. To bring them to himself. Tell us what churches and pastors can be doing. They're listening to this, and they're like, I don't know if my church is doing enough to minister to the Muslims, either abroad or here. What was the first step? I think the best thing they could do a pastor could have someone come in, maybe from our team, and share on a Sunday morning, where they can really hear how the gospel is breaking through the difficult areas. Hear the stories. We always say this, if you want to tell someone truth, tell them. If you want them to know the truth, tell them. If you want to change their hearts, tell them a story. When they start seeing these stories and seeing the before and after pictures of men and women that have come to faith in Christ that had hardened looks, and all of a sudden they had the fruit of the spirit. It's convincing. Then after that, it's very simple. Just have a training with people on how to engage Muslims in conversations, and we can do that. It works here. It works in Europe. We're doing that in Europe. It works in the Middle East. Real simple, but devote some time. We live in Texas. There's a huge Muslim population. It's the largest Muslim population in America. I believe it used to be Michigan. I think we're number one now. We need to be able to see. God's brought them to the Bible Belt. It couldn't be any better than this. We have an opportunity to share with them lots of believers that can share the love of Christ. I think it's important what you said earlier about your friend who was in Dearborn and realized, okay, we've got some radical Muslims that are coming over here, and that presents a threat. You can have concerns about immigration and the Islamification of the West and love these people at the same time. Really, those two things go hand in hand. We want them to be released from enslavement to Islam. We want them to know Christ and bear the fruit of the spirit. It's not one or the other. Sometimes people pit those things against each other. No, we love our neighbor. We share the gospel, and we have concerns about immigration policy and all that. We have a friend that was a pastor in Syria, and there was a couple that kept coming and visiting him. They're having dreams and visions. They're Muslim. They're covered. It's a big deal that they walked down a Christian street. Finally, they're ready. Their children are ready. He leads them to faith. This isn't an on-the-ground church. You have three churches now. You have the underground church, the secret to your on-the-ground, and then the cyber church, the above-ground church. This is on the ground. It's a church in Syria. Then they want to be baptized. He said, okay, this is the line in the sand. If your relatives find out about this, it'll cause you problems. You could die. We're ready. It ends up, they do get baptized. Somehow, a relative finds out, and the pastor finds himself arrested in northern Syria. They take him all the way down to Damascus and put him in the third story below the ground floor. It's called the Damascus Dungeon. They put him in there. His wife doesn't know what's going to happen. He's going to get beaten up. They put him in a cell with 39 other Muslims, and it should hold about 20 people. I mean, they're just crouched together. He just thought, I'm going to die here. I mean, there's no way I'm going to escape this. When the guard comes in, he's just throwing pita on the floor, and they're all running for it. He just grabs one and says, hey, in my faith, we pray before we eat. Can I pray? The guy that's kind of the head-ice-ist dude looks at him, what? He goes, well, I like to pray before I eat. Can we pray? Whatever. He prays. Something shifted in that cell after he prayed. The authority of God came. Miracles started happening. That night, he goes to sleep. He leans against the wall and sits all the way down so nobody can come up behind him. He's asleep. He feels a tap, and there's a guy whispering in his ear, and he said, if we ever get out of here, can you memorize my number? He goes, why? Because Jesus is coming to me in dreams. The next night, another guy comes. The next night, two guys come. It ends up that it was six or seven that come to Mollies in jail. The end of the week, shockingly, they just let him out of jail, never touched, never beaten up, nothing. His wife comes to pick him up, they call and say, your husband's out of jail. She gets there just thinking, what's he like? If we're going to have to go to the hospital? She runs up, hugs him, how did it go? He goes, it was the best week in my life. I've never seen God move with such dangerous people like that as I did in that cell. It was the best week in my life. They've had those gospel conversations. Those guys and their families have come to faith in Christ. Even their radicals don't stand against Jesus' power. They don't stand a chance at all. Amen. So that's what God is up to. That's right. Okay, tell us more about your books where people can get them. Sure. We're on Amazon, and so Tom and Joanne Doyle, the last one we wrote is Women Who Risk, Secret Agents for Jesus in the Muslim World. It's all about women, but we wanted to write that. Joanne and I were talking about wherever we go, Iraq, Syria, all these places, it seems like Ali Beth is starts with the women. One day, we were talking about that in the house, and Joanne said, well, I think women are just the spiritual gatekeepers of their family. I went, bingo, yes they are. If a Muslim woman comes to faith in Christ, she will tell her children. She will tell her husband is dangerous as that maybe. We wrote a book about women going into their villages sharing and telling what Christ has done to them, for them. So Amazon, you can go to Unchartedministries.com. It was women who first saw the empty grave. Finance Jesus' ministry. Amazing. And you know what? We don't see in the New Testament a woman rejecting Jesus. We see a lot of men that do. Isn't that something? Interesting. I mean, that's a whole other lesson that we can learn because in America, we see a lot of women leaving the church, men coming to the church, and women going the secular route. But that kind of reinvigorates me to share the gospel with those women. We see that example in Christ in the New Testament. We do. I mean, it's just happening. We say, reach the Muslim woman, reach the Muslim world. They hold the key, and they don't have a lot of rights. They don't. So you would think- They might have the most to lose if you look at it from a particular perspective, certainly. That's right. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. And your ministry, how can people learn more about that and support you? That would be great. Thank you. Uncharted. You just go to Unchartedministries.com, Unchartedministries.com, and we're about reaching the unreached, standing with the persecuted. Well, thank you so much, Tom. I really appreciate it. Privilege to be with you. Thank you. Thank you.