HBO’s Upcoming TV Slate, the Many Ghosts of ‘Industry,’ and ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ E3

I need supports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk. Now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com and joining me in the studio, turning UltraVox up way too loud for this time of night. That was nice. It's Andy Greenwald! I love your energy. We're coming from different places right now. It's spiritually 1 p.m. in the afternoon for me. Maybe this is when I should be potting. Greenwallet, great to see you. The watch at Spotify.com. Thewatchpod underscore on Instagram. You can watch us on Ringer-TV on YouTube. You can watch us and listen to us on Spotify. I'm back from Boston. My hearing is intact. Great. I had a great, great, great weekend at something in the Wayfest. Yossi and I went to do a live show with Pat Flynn from Fiddlehead and his new band, how much art who played over at something in the way fest is awesome good band name you got to check that band out um we did a live show with him we did a live bands plane and then yassi and i presented repo man at the coolidge corner theater which is one of my favorite movie theaters in the country and so great so many people seeing repo man for the first time fun young faces yeah the cr demo getting younger you know great that's really good i was worried you know you wonder whether you're going to just it's your audience and you guys are just going to die together right no you are like the wooderson of podcasting that's right i get older these dudes keep discovering heat at exactly the same it's really uh no it's great to see everybody boston was very friendly of very cold uh it's really awesome to just go to a music festival um eight degree weather but it was it was great i also love this because i got right when we finished recording last week i got a little bit of insight into what the weekend would be like because i was there for the dawn of my new favorite buddy comedy which is you and yasi travel companions it was awesome uh you famously can roll with just about anything as long as you have your um yucotin i was gonna say but basically yes yeah and then and then yasi just had a really beautifully chaotic energy she was carrying a fur coat she had sent an uber to get her sunglasses she had never been to massages before she was quite worried about the cold yeah no i think it was it was modeled on a tauntaun yes but it was fake and and you guys from what i understand spent every second together and i love it no we i mean like it was the flights it was the meals it was the shows and then we would take a you know an appropriate break to to go read about jeffrey epstein and and come back together and share your learning do you think that we should promote like in the same way that like maybe some companies allow people to like oh no how about like a professional kitchen when you can you can stage at other restaurants or you can like if you usually work noma the grill station i couldn't afford i don't know it couldn't be me yeah the grill station then you work vegetables or mise en plus like should we do that with a podcast where like because you just had your band playing excursion what uh like could we swap it up could we do like a fun freaky friday week when everyone's on different podcasts we've talked about that before you know your contract is very complicated you know there was a lot of performance-based incentive-based you know yeah i would just go on philly special for 20 minutes exactly but i'm saying everyone else would have a lot of fun exactly the sean manion chronicles can i ask you another thing but we're going to get into our normal yeah i do want to talk about uh night of the seven kingdoms eventually with you and i went on i went on i i did talk the thrones this weekend with mal and joanna and we had a reaction to that you can find that on house of r but industry is going to take up i think the majority of this conversation yeah um we are coming you just you were just across the country you were in cold whether I'm coming off, I would say, roughly two and a half, three hours of sleep and then four hours of international Zooming. So I might be in a different place. But you did mention everyone's favorite reading material from the weekend, the files, the e-files. And I just want to say one thing. I just like this is the one obviously my first through 70th thought were, you know, increasing levels of horror. Did you think that when you saw the emails that were like, so sorry, I have no time to waste with diplomats. I'm currently running three companies and about to launch things. Did that remind you of texts that maybe I would have sent you? Like in the early 2010s when you'd be like, do you want to get dinner? And I was like, actually, the NBC Thursday night lineup is quite stacked. Up All Night is premiering with Will Arnett and Christina Applegate. thus i must decline your invitation you mean when you first started uh getting into like i just was worried tv criticism not even i just worry that there may be a strain and you would be the one to call me on this like throughout our friendship have i ever front-loaded my righteous reasons for not doing something cool no yes yes not that what he was talking about was cool i want to tread carefully here but there was a kind of tone that you recognized i i worried i it's definitely that reminds me of when my father had an AOL account. So I did understand the sort of like, actually. Yeah. But I worried that I've done that for you. Maybe I've missed out on some good times like music festivals in Boston. Possibly. You know what I mean? Sometimes you just got to say yes. That's really. To music festivals in Boston. And that's it. No other sort of travel. I spent a lot of time, you know, you just basically, I was just in a hotel room because it was so cold, you couldn't really like gallivant around Boston. uh and i and i did i did imbibe in reading deep into the the lore did you and i gotta say after doing that charlie heaton's speech at the end of industry last night made a lot more sense to me thank you for connecting the dots it felt like not that cokey no it felt pretty lucid yeah honestly um we're gonna talk about industry uh 1000 utes no other notes from no other news like Oh, my bad, yeah. We'll talk about that episode in a second. We did want to do a little bit of a recap of Casey Bloys. Kyle liked it. Kyle wants to talk about Melania. What a great gross for a doc, first of all. Can we all just agree on that? I'm glad everybody sung that note. That's the headline. Really? What a gross doc is what we're saying. We were going to hit on Casey Bloys' Deadline.com interview and talking about kind of some HBO stuff. You know what? This was like, Casey was asked 400 times about Game of Thrones shows, and he volleyed and sort of parried away from a bunch of that stuff. I think those shows will come and go as they are ready to be done. But here's some headlines. Obviously, we haven't really even commented on this, but the White Lotus season forecasting is pretty much locked up, I think. And it's Helena Bonham Carter. This is so, how does he do this? he how does i mean talk about an early finish who it is in control of his instrument yeah it's helena bonham carter yes alexander lubwig who you may remember from vikings uh i know a show that you definitely i don't uh chris messina steve coogan ali machalka from aj and which i've never watched and a couple of other folks who i have not i'm not as familiar with their work um but those are the big big names there's more to come oh you think so yeah i mean the cast generally have a few more people. I wonder if it's a tighter cast this year. I don't know. Budget cuts? No, but it was an unwieldy brood last season. You know? It's true. It felt like it was in a couple of different The various nodes of the polycule of the cast, each one had multiple people in it. Right. Do you remember that there was a, maybe the last good time on X.com the Everything app was when everyone was like posting pictures and they were like True Detective Season 2. No fun faux casting of the White Lotus can ever do it as well as Mike White actually does it. Steve Coogan and Helena Bonham Carter is elite. It's incredibly exciting. This guy just understands market deficiencies. I hope Steve Coogan is just doing Michael Caine from Dark Knight. He's just talking about how he won't bury another Batman. I want him to be doing Philomena. Oh yeah. Is that your shit? I prefer a serious Steve Coogan. No, I can't wait to see this. Sorry, I'm interrupting you go ahead uh no and then uh so there was a little bit of that um the pit is going to stick to its annual but maybe not like january to january right uh schedule but casey said that he expects the pit to be an annual season and that they're starting to generate ideas for season three uh house of the dragon uh is looks to end on season four and casey got into a little bit of the fallout between george r martin and ryan condal the showrunner for that show and he was He was just like, hey, you know. Family's fight? Family's fight, just ours, this one broke out into the open. Night of the Seven Kingdoms is currently shooting season two. Wild. Euphoria, which is coming on for its third season in the spring, could do a fourth season. There are now rumors that Sam Levinson has a couple of ideas for it. And then he didn't say this, but I would guess by the numbers, the enthusiasm and the trajectory and his comments which were vague but leaning positive is that they will renew industry for season five yeah i mean i think he's clearly very pleased with it i think he feels he and the entire team there feel very invested in it and then you can see now the almost it's almost quaint like the old school marketing machinery that hbo still has access to sort of rumble to life for something that's... Is rolling downhill. When they get some momentum with it. Exactly. Well said. Obviously it was COVID, so I don't think there was ever going to be a big premiere, but there haven't been a lot of co-brands of the industry leading into the season. There have been so many that the entire cast were ringing the bell at the stock exchange and then having an all-nighter at the boiler room. The show with the young cast who actually like each other and like to go out present a lot of opportunities for this sort of thing. So I feel like they're enjoying that. I have one sort of broader observation from this entire interview. I had an observation too. Why don't you go first? Okay. It was really interesting to watch Casey do Moneyball throughout this interview and talk about, in a way that I think many people who lead networks or run programming departments, and I'm sure they're all conscientious of their budgets, but whether it's because they have to keep up with the Joneses or because they work for technology companies that are like, there is no limit, you know, if you need to spend $80 million on a show that never comes out or whatever, go for it. Several times in this interview, and we'll put the link to the interview, the deadline interview in the show notes, he refers to just basically savvy business decisions. So whether it's the efficiency of making the pit in California and being able to turn it over in that sense, there's a really interesting conversation about them licensing Heated Rivalry from Crave, which is the Canadian network, having the rights to it for several seasons, I believe, but not being on the hook to renegotiate with this cast that has now reached, I'm hosting SNL levels. But the implication was that Crave is going to have to renegotiate. Can Crave afford to do that? I don't know what the loony is doing right now. Look, Mark Carney can work wonders on the global stage. Sure, that's true. That was very interesting. Clearly something that he was very involved with, which we know to be the case and is very proud of yes that is just and he talks about night of seven kingdoms being a very affordable within the context of game of thrones affordable show to make although it sounds like season two they have to shoot it in a in like um more of like of a desert climb oh that's exciting yeah um the other thing that broke concurrently um is hbo max's long rumor not rumored i mean they've been talking about it that they have a cop companion show for the pit called american blue you know i did not know about this yes this was that in the interview um no it's not it broke uh also on deadline the same day this has been in development for a while it's um comes from supernatural showrunner jeremy carver basically as part of the the pitification the networkization broadcast divization whatever of the max platform or hbo max platform they were like let's see if we can do this in the three spaces that traditionally broadcast networks operated in. Doctors, cops. And family dramas. So the family drama is still forthcoming, or at least in development, from the Berlanti universe, under his overall at Warner Brothers. But American Blue was the one that kind of took the pole position for the cop show. And Milo Ventimiglia was just cast as the lead, and David Iyer is going to direct the pilot. David Iyer knows his way around a cop drama. And it's another... The logline is about a native son returning to his hometown of joliet illinois to rescue to rescue a beleaguered police force while seeking redemption of his own the character brian milk milkovich much like robbie that's the thing i kind of you remember we used to do like tweak that that's what i'm saying when we used to do like the jonah sarah take the glasses off hollywood fixer thing i just feel like the nickname guy like you jeremy carver and everybody at hbo max you're busy do you think he'll have a sassy desk sergeant named Lana instead of Dana. It's going to do like 15 hours. I don't think it's... There's no insinuation that it's going to be the 24 style in real time. It's interesting and it's savvy both to be making these moves behind the scenes to get costs down and get a bigger return on investment and it's very smart to be forward-facing about that as Casey is in the interview. I would say, and I'm not here to do any kind of like media critique i'll save that for my appearance on the press box which is being negotiated right now by a lot of teams yeah so i don't want to criticize any media reporting and nelly has been doing this for a very long time but i was curious to note that the much of her interview was kind of like you said it was kind of just like serve and volleying of her trying to get him to crack about release dates and renewals which obviously are headline drivers and there's a lot of curiosity you just get scoops out of that But but there's so much more to the story here. Like Casey pushed back really hard on the development stuff because he doesn't want to give them headlines that they can't back up. But also, like, it seems to be very important to him that there really have been only two Game of Thrones shows that this isn't like flooding the zone like Marvel in 2020. So he didn't comment on Sea Snakes and Arya or whatever the other things in development were. But I just felt like it was a missed opportunity to kind of ask more about the philosophical programming decisions that they're making to stay distinct and to stay relevant, which has become almost existential, not just for Casey, but for HBO. Meaning, how do you cut through the noise? That's what they've all been dealing with in this world of, you know, 400, 500 scripted shows, although that number is going down. But particularly, how do you stay like essentially a killer app when you are potentially about to be subsumed into Netflix? Yeah, I mean. How do you continue to do what they've done, which is work the very high-level end stuff, the prestige stuff that wins awards, the popcorn stuff, and now the cost-effective stuff, and the one for us, as he mentions in the story. Somebody somewhere. How do you continue to make the right choices on all of those different playing fields all at the same time? I think that's interesting how the market forces and the upcoming market forces may have changed or affected their decisions. Yeah, I mean, I think that it wouldn't be a nightmare scenario because FX obviously does really good work within the context of the Disney infrastructure. But it would be a strange experience to kind of evaluate HBO as a vertical within Netflix, you know, and to not think of it as something that was sort of on its own. And then frankly, I think the week-to-week releases really do help create a world of conversation around HBO shows because that's what people are watching. We're currently covering three broadly HBO or HBO Max shows on the pod and almost to the expense of everything else. And that's because we can do so for two months. If the pit went up over the course of a weekend, we'd probably be done with it in three or four days in terms of covering it. So I think that the biggest question I have about the potential merger or the potential acquisition of HBO in the Netflix world is what happens to the release model. Well, they have not moved off of that. For as much as they're talking about theatrical, for as much as they experiment with live, for as much as Stranger Things was parceled out over the course of three holidays, which was obviously to eventize it, I haven't seen anything that would suggest that they wouldn't put the pit up entirely in one weekend. It's a great question. Would they treat the traditional A-list brand HBO shows like White Lotus differently than they would treat these newfangled 15-hour HBO Max shows? Now, that's a way down the line conversation because they haven't even, this haven't even gone through yet. I keep coming back to this and I don't know, and maybe our listeners and emailers will give me their perspective on this, people who might know more than I do about it. But I do have a feeling, and this is not just like my vibes. I mean, people have said as much to me that Ted Sarandos does appreciate the uniqueness of the things that he is attempting to acquire. That he does like what DeLuca and Abdi are doing with Warner Brothers Theatrical, and he likes going to the movies sometimes. I think he also likes and admires HBO and what they've been able to do and why they still are considered the crown jewel. And I think he understands that the release model is part of that. the question is appreciation versus stewardship and how long it takes because what is the TV equivalent of what many people are predicting which is that he will respect theatrical windows, they're just going to get shorter what is the TV version of that? It doesn't mean that these shows become like what he's doing with Bridgerton where it's like half and half seasons. Yes, but those are when those shows are up in the top the 99th percentile of Netflix shows I thought it was interesting and sure sean and amanda will comment on this in more depth christopher nolan made his first comments as his in his role as the president of the dga and had a lot to say about theatrical windows yeah and was sort of like the only thing that distinguishes this base basically like sarandos's real like attitude towards theatrical windows will be a huge like indicator of where this industry is going and whether or not theatrical is just sort of like a quick exhibition to qualify for something or to have something in the theater for a week or whether it's going to be like we're going to keep using the movie theater as the primary way people are experiencing this art form I mean thank God for jeff bezos and amazon committed to the theatrical model even even for just sort of scrappy docs you know what i mean like they believe in that like getting people out to the theater you you want to do you want to weigh in i'm not scared to weigh in i just i think almost like your silence is deafening yeah it is well it's deafening because i lost my voice screaming while I was reading Epstein emails. All right, let's get into industry. How about that? Okay. This is a really good episode of television. The show has now kind of gotten into that, like, the breaking of the rules is the rule zone where, you know, the last... Disruption, disruption. It's not even that. I'm not even trying to, like, give it tech keywords or anything like that. There is something really exciting about not knowing what's going to happen in the last... Like, as we kind of, like, approach the last stretch of this episode and you've got Whitney and Henry having their kind of, uh, Edie and Neil heat moments staring out over the landscape. Okay. Sort of. Yeah. Sort of. And I didn't remember that part of the movie, but. But that felt very Michael Mann to me. Like the two guys staring out into the city. More like Michael Mann on man. Michael Mann. Yes. Michael Mann. Men who love men. You know, that's the conclusion of the episode in a lot of ways that, you know, you've had, you've got the Haley and Yasmin moment in the, in the elevator you've got the the boys in the office got some other boys uh and then and then it keeps going you know what i mean and you get jim dyker's this part um colossal kind of like public scandal breaking with his relationship to not only harper but his inappropriate relationship with hayley it gets to his editor his editor is recommending his termination yep jim spiraling goes to a pub gets a bag has a bag whatever there's the bag man is also at the pub rishi it turns out these two have been circling each other it turns out rishi is the one who broke into jim's flat earlier looking for himself an edge on something that he could get involved with to like make more money in the market the two of them recognize each other as lost souls and have uh and pawns in a way right a dark knight of the lost soul and that can get pretty fucking dark yeah and what transpires is a quiet like arresting and blazing performance from heaton yeah and just that eerie like industry can be like it'll be four on the floor and you're like i know the rhythm i know what's happening i know the beat and then something will come up like the weird pub barfly that was great who's standing in the back turning the music up all the time and kind of amping up the drama. And the episode ends with Diker ODing and Rishi flinging himself off his own balcony as the cops are coming into his flat, but not dying, breaking at least a leg, I imagine. Might have some ACL problems in the other one. What's our god's name? Dr. James Glashout? What's his name? James Andrews and there is a James... What? The dude who built a new Joel Embiid. right that dude works for the sixers he doesn't but he works for the city of philadelphia now we're gonna you don't know about this we're gonna hang his jersey i thought it was like some guy works for the sixers who just like knee whispered him no he's an nyc orthopedic surgeon dr jonathan glashow we're gonna hang it all right relax you know this is the most excited i've been all pot all right go on let's go back to episode of the year okay i didn't say that i just he's like it's really, really great. And, uh, you know, you've talked about this really much more eloquently than I did, but they're just them writing themselves into corners. Well, it's both writing yourself into corners and acknowledging, like not throwing in the, in gambling terms, a subject I know nothing about, but not throwing bad money after good. Meaning, uh, when you commit to doing something, deal with, deal with the reality of it to the extent that you can and then if you have to walk away you walk away and not many shows have the courage of that conviction so when you introduce a character like big jim duiker and the first two things he does are sketchy at best and fireable and amoral at worst how are you going to square that like how do you prepare and i think some shows would be like oh interesting how will i I wanted to shock with the introduction, but I now must make some sort of sane washing choice character wise to make it worth it or make us understand it. And with some of the additions to the character, even within this episode, you could maybe think that those guardrails are being placed. Yeah. Well, he's under a lot of stress. He's a girl dad or maybe he had a boy. I don't remember. But the point is dad. We don't. You got to take the bad girl dads with the good girl dads. You know, you can't have Marty Supreme. I think I was a boy. I'm pretty sure his behavior was a boy. And you're thinking, are these guardrails for a potential salvation arc? No. Same for Rishi. Same for Rishi, I think, but the descent might be longer because I think Charlie Heaton... Well, it was pretty quick when he jumped off the mountain. The ground came up real fast. Charlie Heaton, this is where obviously we're spoiling already has done the round or before this episode aired had done his round of interviews to go on to go up after yes and said that he knew he was doing a half season arc and and everything and left it all on the floor quite literally yeah but um but you can see why yeah you know like you can see why he would do something like that because yes in the first couple of episodes the first three episodes he's largely like you know staring at a computer screen and you know begging for more time on his on his story deadline but like that's that's why you would any actor in the world would sign up to do that Especially if you want to change direction from what you've been doing. I'll say this. As someone who is somewhat of a connoisseur of cokey performances in movies and TV, I thought he did... He had an energy that I don't think I... It wasn't like he was doing Sean Penn or doing Ray Liotta. He had a very specific energy to him when he was doing that. And I thought his inability to hear Rishi was actually the funniest part, not funny but like it was like this is very dead on of this guy's like i'm ranting and like this other dude talking about why how he might want to yeah kill himself and is never going to see a son and diker's just like no no man i've i'm on i've got like i've got i see i've got the sheet music brother like i got it well well also there was the the there was the way that anger confrontation fighting disagreeing was part of the rush yeah it was not actually for him at least that it didn't seemed like there were actual stakes to it but to your point about like um mitigating everything through ego and through personal experience i thought that was one of the nicest things about the episode nice very little about the episode was nice but in terms of like through lines that almost every interaction uh was there was always an extra element on top of it so that when jonah is talking to sweet pea he is he's on the phone at a strip club he can't even do either without, he can't enjoy vice or work separate and apart from each other. Everyone is basically staring into a private abyss, and their conversations are feedback loops of whatever it is they already want to say. Yeah, I think one of the reasons why the show feels different than other shows is not only because of the music and not only because of the performances, but the performances are not, this is not like a marked-based set. I don't think people have to stand still as they do, you know, single, single master for these actors. And there's a lot of, like, movement within what feels, when they're sets, they look like the real world, and then often it seems like they are shooting out in the real world. And that flat looked like a dingy prefab, not dingy, but a prefab flat on Canary Wharf somewhere. You know what I mean? Like wherever Rishi had sort of washed up. I want to go back to the top of the episode before dwelling too much, and then maybe we'll return to the end. but when you were talking about like cinematic references and the show feeling its oats more in terms of drawing from things i don't know if it was subtle but like when you talked about like koki energy and the guy with the volume i mean that is straight out of the boogie nights playbook that's that's that's the the firecrackers i have two more things about the end before we go back to the beginning can i just bounce two things off of you one is that uh i liked the idea of jim's monologue as the piece he would never get a chance to write. That's well said. I like the idea that he was like tender and siren and, you know, payment processing platforms and the legality of what they're doing in Africa is all just like a kind of, it's like a chimera of like, this is what I really want to say about the world. Yes. And so he gets it out. Right. And dies. Like it's his last will and testament kind of. I mean, when he said, what did he say? We age without getting older, stuck on a wheel of prediction and consumption. Yes, I have some other. I was both ready to stand up and salute. And I was also like, Conrad, I hear your music play. I mean, it was kind of nothing serious. We're just steam on a mirror. We built an interface with the world that gives us what we want, but not what we want to want. And, you know, and then goes out, goes out like a champion. you know with with ultravox playing uh all-time needle drop i also wanted to ask you i i know that the man who was in the room with them was real yeah but i would like to go back through industry and spot the ghosts that's very interesting so wait this is great i'm not going to take you off of this but i also felt that it was a brilliant inclusion in the scene because there's also a strong strong uh it's not even a whiff it's a presence of paranoia yes this episode even before the charlie gets broken out and the idea that that these people were as you said circling each other but maybe more than that that this was not a casual encounter yes that rishi has been prying into to dyker's life and vice versa and but like how high does this thing go and has is Is Whitney capable of having... Of course he hasn't been capable. Right, of having Dyker killed, or having it set up to look like he was killed. Is Rishi collateral damage in a good way? Let me just pull up justice.gov. Would you mind killing this bloke? Whoops! But the cleverness of the episode is in the small details. Like the guy who ends up being their best mate, who has kind of big aging Bez energy, I felt. yeah happy mondays um he his encounter with them is chasing off someone else right to earn their trust which is actual classic spycraft right like you set up both sides of them oh to like engender their their trust yes i mean now you could argue that rishi and and dyker are gonna have that night regardless that's the thing you don't really they don't really need to be pushed they're jumping it's not literally like a ghost it's just spectral figures throughout the series like who else are you thinking of clement you know in the first season who is obviously a real person yeah but is almost like future rob you know kind of like talking him through his class crisis remind people i wanted to talk about clement is like one of my favorite inventions of the show which is the in the first season rob's sort of assigned mentor uh who has one client and has been masking his scottish heritage i mean there's his identity one other thing too yeah and his heroin uh addiction yeah um and who essentially acts as like rob's benefactor um posthumously and and it's just this lovely and half of an episode of season one yeah they go on this trip to amsterdam i believe i don't remember i think it's amsterdam and go to a tailor and like have this experience and it's just this like incredible like if industry was a series of short stories it would be one of my favorite ones absolutely um you know we obviously had the uh the commander from earlier this season so i was like i kind of want to go back through and think about people who kind of hovered over these characters and then vanished whether even adler you know what i mean like the idea of these characters kind of think about the show began right show began with the with the the trainee dying in the bathroom yes and it presents him i don't have his name in front of me because he was brilliant in station 11 to the actor but like people were being picked off before they even started. And that shadow, I guess, falls emotionally on the characters, even though he's never really mentioned. Right. Nabhan Rizwan, sorry. He's fantastic. Yeah. Frank in Station 11. I was thinking a lot about the role Clement played and the lack of Clements going forward. And I think that there's two different ways into a conversation about it in the show. And I want to try to present it in a value-neutral way, because I'm curious your thoughts about it. We've talked a lot so far this season about the lack of familiar settings. We've lost Peerpoint, although weirdly, Peerpoint is back. I was going to ask about this, but yeah. The succubus of the company is back haunting these characters. But outside of Eric, they've also lost all middle management. The only, everyone in this show this season is playing dress up. No one more so than Yasmin, who is wearing like an almost cartoonish Grace Jones power suit with the shoulders as she's play acting. Yeah. And it's not a coincidence. It's a sign of, I think, cleverness and intent that it's as extravagant a period outfit as they were wearing when they were all dressed up for Henry's birthday. My favorite outfit in this episode is definitely Henry's. Henry's relatable. He's open just a little bit. Yeah, but tucked in, Chelsea boots, and is just kind of like, hey, man. I know I'm aristocratic, but we're all friends here. We all have our mental health struggles. So basically this season, the kids are playing dress up and the only authority figures that are left for them are dinosaurs the the people who run the newspapers the people who have held the entrenched power and i think that there's a critical way in of that where there are moments this season that i've bumped against where like the tender is going to completely revolutionize finance and government and banking everything in this country and it's being masterminded by these three dopes basically by the end of this episode And that feels that sometimes I question the reality of that, even though it's in the purpose of drama. Right. There are other times when I'm like, oh, this is actually a withering and insightful exploration of the whole the world of a hollowed out middle that exists where like we're gerontocracy politically and no middle. like i'm not i'm not saying this to big up our pathetic generation but like people in our generation have never like held power in the country because the baby boomers didn't give it up and then the younger people are like what the fuck let's just go on only fans i guess sirens that that seems to be the extent of it yeah so and in in the light of that um binary like what james's speech is is quite telling and there's an emptiness at the heart of this people are play acting at responsibility when really everyone is just you know auto looping their sonar pings into their own screens yeah um do you ever feel though a lack of not that Clement was a great mentor but in a way he was a guide not necessarily all positive he was like a almost even when he was alive he was like a Christmas Carol type figure that's what I yeah for Rob. Do you feel the lack of any... I think that there's like, you know, I don't feel an absence. I think what I'm experiencing watching you know, this show opens, this episode opens with crisis talks at two different companies. So Stern Tau, which is essentially you know, two, three people four people at this point with Kenny banking for them kind of freaking out because diker's not published a follow-up yet that exposes these sunderland you know drop sites where yeah people are doing like you know whatever they're doing for tender they need to tarnish the the reputation of tender quickly in order to to secure their shorts or whatever and then at tender they're talking about their new app now i while i was watching those first two scenes i was kind of really distracted by a thought I had of industry with normal music. What would industry feel like if it was just like... Oh, if it was like Tina Fey's husband's circus-like score from 30 Rock or Kimmy Schmidt? Someone could drop that. I'm with you on that. When I was watching it, I was like, these two companies are quite likely lawless. I mean, we're watching that. But, open up Bloomberg. They're all companies. You can pay for that subscription? Must be nice. That's great. Maybe you can kick me a free article link sometime. It's really hard being you. To the point of music, I do want to say that it really absolves all sins. Because I was more critical of last week's episode, certainly, than you were. And then to have this episode begin with a classic classic contemporary drama construction of like an around the horn yeah where we're checking in what's going on how much money do we have what are we doing yeah everybody's a little agitated for reasons that are interlinked and then the then the nathan mccade the the keys drop and i was like let's go let's go that it's really really just smart asset management yeah to be like we are taking some risky positions but we are still the same company but this is this is why what happens is like in the same way that you're talking about these uh experienced veterans moving off the stage both in terms of like characters on the show but in the world of finance if it's all upstart fucking cowboys with short plays or crypto and i guess we're going to start sounding like jim dyker here in a second like then this is what's going to happen you know you basically have two rebels like fighting against each other in this show instead of like an old guard and a new guard and then only remnants of the old guard are actually at these hollowed out storefronts like pure point yes which is now basically like oh it has some name recognition so it's like basically a piece of financial ip that we're resurrecting um and then at the end of the episode you know they basically take a stake in pure point to offset the risk of PurePoint taking a stake in them, which is, you know, if you can wrap your head around that, you're kind of like, we so fucked Did you want to talk a little bit about the love square square yeah developing between henry whitney yasmin and hayley although i would not put love no central into this square there let talk let's start with the henry stuff because i think kit harrington continues to add to his me fyc he's fucking awesome in this show man do you know what he's really really good at i mean many things as we're learning and not but something that i think he was also good at in Game of Thrones. And I wouldn't say, I mean, he's a talented actor and you're always honing your craft. But there's a specific thing that I think you can trace back to Game of Thrones that I love seeing here, which is that he is, and I know we keep harping on this, he is not a particularly tall man. However, physically, he is elite at menacing people who are even on screen clearly bigger than him. It's like Allen Iverson in the paint, basically. He understands that the way to be bigger and to intimidate people, whether it's Whitney, I think, in one scene or anyone else, is he doesn't come over the top like he is bigger. He goes low like a wrestler about to take them down. And it is intimidating. It's a physical performance, not just a clever verbal performance. I can't imagine having to act and give emotional intent to the dialogue that Mickey and Conrad write for this show and how it's so acrobatic and it's so dense. So it's really on the performer to imbue it with the emotional intent of each moment. He might be the best at it. You can see pain in his eyes as he says certain things because he's not getting his way about how he wants something presented like he's the one where you're watching and you're like if i don't even if i don't understand the concept of what he's saying or like the real like interaction between like if we take a stake in them and they take a stake in this i can see i understand emotionally what he wants because of the way he projects it and honestly you're right he was like that in game of thrones he was able to you know even if it was dense fantasy ideas like communicate a very clear emotional kind of reality to the to the audience it's not it's like kind of like watching you know you can watch tons of people do shakespeare and then you watch emma thompson do shakespeare and you're like oh like i kind of understand shakespeare now it's also a much more complicated journey because i think broad broad broad strokes the journey of john snow is he's nothing he's the bastard he's a pawn of history to having agency in it and what's fascinating about this performance is it's someone who is incredibly privileged who's used to having things his way in a certain way and has no issues indulging himself in almost any direction um and yet you see him repeatedly almost like buck against the handcuffs that he suddenly finds himself in most of them are emotional psychosexual handcuffs um like when he says he has me you're meant to talk me down you're doing this wrong this is not right i'm afraid of you he traps her you know um he he's like give me a lorazepam and she's like i can try and find one he's like god damn it that's You did it wrong. And what was interesting, and again, I think the show has been very smart about, is it too much to keep making these financial analogies, keep backstopping its position? I mean, we may not even know what that means. I have no idea what that means. I'm just going to try it. Because you could watch the season up to this episode, and you could say, I understand why Henry is being made the CEO of this company for the purposes of an eight-episode season. And beyond that, I'm not entirely clear on it. I'm not entirely sold on it. Then you see the way Whitney looks at him and puts his hand on him. And the talk about like building on the conversation from, I believe, the previous episode where he talked about second acts and where they are possible and where they are not. And the way he talks about, much like Yasmin does, pouring his hopes and dreams for what Henry Muck could be into the very flawed vessel known as Henry Muck. you start to understand it on multiple levels not just on a plot contrivance level which is really helpful well in the same way that they're using pure point is it pure point powered by tender or tender powered by pure point i can't remember which i think by the end tender has the upper hand it's almost like a guy like henry is better than nothing you know it's like you basically have some name recognition you have some aristocracy or you know he's a he's a landed gentry sure so you're building up from that and it's better even if he has failed publicly with loomy and had mental health and and drug problems in the public you're still you know it's it's like hey we'll just make a we'll go back into the 1980s and just grab this title because it has a higher baseline name recognition than anything else so i really like the idea that all these people have sort of convinced him that this is king king arthur you know and that he has giving a fucking speech No, but he has his St. Withensday speech. He goes off book and he moves people in an unmovable room. Then he blows right by his beautiful wife. That was awkward. But his beautiful wife is, what's the word, maybe a monster? Yeah. Yes. Reminiscent of the succession sequence with Shiv talking a sexual abuse whistleblower out of coming forward. Yaz gets Haley played by Karen Shipka promoted at tender as a kind of reward for participating in a threesome with her and Henry slash also potentially another she's someone on her side she is it's intentional she's completely out of place out in front of her skis I think she's presenting it to Haley as like i i i recognize like great talent in you professionally and haley's like let's be honest like about what that was yes and now i have something on you as well that's the arc of the episode yes um did you feel we're talking about how like one of the one of the smart things that showrunners can do is um have certain people on an innings count you know you could the james diker story served a purpose and they gave charlie heaton enough real estate to make a character have opportunities and also to have it surprise. Were you surprised that the Haley character is going in this direction or is having the prominence that she is thus far? Not saying that she couldn't be gone after next week. That's part of the fun of watching the show now. I also think that the characters can change week to week. I didn't see scenes from next week and we should mention that both Industry and Night of Sound of Kings are going up on Friday this week because of the Super Bowl. I don't know how she is going to react to the news that Diker has died or that, you know, like, like, I don't know how she's going to feel next week. She's a she's a young person, you know, like, I think there is a liveliness. Yes. And this is now not like she's not Lena Headey in Game of Thrones. She's a person who's like maybe got more to her than what Yasmin thought. But I don't know that she's like soulless or anything like that. I'm curious where it's a very intentional choice. But at this point, like having Ken Leung and Mahala be in the show is credible for the show. I don't know how much conversation, although there may have been some, there was at the genesis about the importance of them being American, you know, in terms of the story, as opposed to we need some Americans in here because it's going to be an international show. At this point in season four, bringing in these American characters is more significant. And there was some thought to it as evidenced by that second acts in American life or English life thing. So I'm very curious what is going to be said about that, not just because as an American who's been in England recently, as are you. I don't want to step on your experience as well. Thanks, man. I want to hold some space for it. I will say the only time that I really was out on this week's episode was when Calabasas said that I don't rate that at all. But if she's been in England for five years, maybe she's started picking up some fun. You know what I say when I accept my pint of NA. Cheers. That was all I had for industry this week. Do you have anything else? The reishi stuff was excellent. I think Cigar Rowdy is giving just a great performance. I think it is also another example of playing with timing and expectation. Because last week we were talking about how much more, this is probably the right way to phrase it, rope the character had and and how the repercussions will be doled out and clearly we were expecting more repercussions than sweet pea being like get this guy away from me sure that came this week in the form of uh oh that was the other screen mitigating experience when he's getting road head from his underage drug dealing i forgot about that again it's all on a screen um we have that scene we see how far he's fallen in a way although you know probably someone in the new york review of books is just like rishi's job remains the same across these seasons review of books do industry recaps i know but you know i renewed my subscription when they had a big takeout on effingers so i feel like now they are we're really setting the agenda for the elite publications in this country um finally our generation is taking power when it matters um the scene with his surprisingly religious ex-mother-in-law with his son there was a devastating scene um but what's interesting and compelling about the show is the way that they do switch up the tempo so with the with those scenes coming in short order and then him showing up you know clearly intentionally with uh james i thought i see so the rishi story is now going to be uh onboarded like mainstreamed into stern tau and everything and this is just the beginning of it and i'm fine with it's great i'm ready for him to come back and be the you know dirty investigator or whatever it is that he's going to be doing and then he throws himself off of a balcony um which was surprising not that he did it that episode was clearly headed that way but then in terms of they keep putting they keep painting them him into story corners and it's risky and it's interesting and i don't i'm i'm purely curious to see where it goes because i that outcome for him is not unexpected but it was unexpected at the end of episode four it was and it was not unexpected given the the way that the um the way that he had kept running into basically dead ends cul-de-sacs professional rehabilitation personal rehabilitation um you know and then he finds himself like the guys that and the people that he is going to be like leveling out with are like coked out people at afters you know what i mean and that he's never really going to get a license to do what he did before. He's essentially a drug-dealing father of a child that he will never be allowed to see alone again. And his name is being changed. And people are frequently calling him a murderer, or at least publicly calling him a murderer. And he's infamous in a way that I don't think I understood coming off of last season. That people would know about it. Yeah, we're on a ghost ship. I thought that was industry at its best. And I also just, you know, obviously we know the guys who make it. We've talked to them many times and i am always looking for convergence between you know the meta story of things and and the idea of like the middle managers being gone and only dealing with the sure oligarchs while you try to make something creative that lasts is relevant i just thought that that speech was so nicely twinned with the um the feature that the new yorker ran about them which is uh back in december and uh it's a great story they are they leave it they explain everything behind the scenes but the fact that it ends with mickey going home to be with his family the story and conrad talking about why people are fucking miserable while waiting for his friend who works at goldman to arrive i'm like everything is copied yeah but it is a you can't watch this show it feels personal that's what i'm saying that that that is always the secret sauce to almost anything that that we respond to artistically and not just us people and i love that like the show is um there's a seriousness of purpose to the show that earns it its stripes like there are moments even the season where i'm like is it veering into i said this last week the more sensationalist chaotic chaotic elements yeah that get headlines or get go viral or you know or but it knows what it's doing and there's purpose in the soullessness and it's attempting to comment on that in a way that i find pretty compelling i think that on a week-to-week basis there's like just lots of gif-able moments and and kind of there's an almost like probably built-in viral quality to it i wouldn't say that that's something that they're thinking about when they're writing but it just feels that way when it's like oh you know karen ship get thrown up or mini dress is really gonna like blow people's minds but when you look at like the four episodes together when the themes of this series and seasons start to emerge and when you kind of think about all the flourishes that happen as writers as directors it's really this is why it's why we spend so much time talking about it let's spend a little bit of time talking about a night of the seven kingdoms i talked about this with mal and joe a lot of what we talked about actually uh the top of that episode i want to get your thoughts on it was the twist and the idea of was it a twist uh was it a thrill for you as somebody who obviously didn't read the books but i don't know how much you read about the characters going into it. Spoilers for this third episode of Night of the Seven Kingdoms, but what did you think of the reveal at the end that Egg is in fact Aegon Targaryen? I was thrilled. Did you know it? Yes. I still don't really know what that fully means, and I was going to ask you to help talk me through some twisted Targaryen history. Just listen to that fortune teller. Yeah, exactly. But she's good at her job. She should definitely get a raise um so much of i i say this constantly for almost every major show we talk about for the many years we've been doing this podcast but much like um play calling in the nfl so much of uh what makes showrunners elite is this innate sense of tempo and timing and how to play you know when to call certain place let's put it that way yeah and the reason why i know i wish there was like a heat map for like what you mentioned and it's definitely offensive coordinating and the effingers are just like fucking redder than the sun like this podcast is personal much like industry yeah we have to bring our whole selves to it yes um no but jokes aside i i was aware of that reveal and we made some passing jokes last week about how they were kind of laying a little bit thick with the edit but one of the fun things about watching the show regardless well the main fun thing about watching the show regardless is that this show is very fun to watch and that's enough the second fun thing was knowing what i know how will they choose to um share this information and this episode through the first half was i mean there was jousting but it was relatively slower and more contemplative and gave me the thought that the reveal was coming at the end of the season that it was going to be a long throat clear before we get there what they did that i love and again this is probably if not you can tell me probably because of your experience with with joe and mal like um from the text or not like a huge creative leap on the part of ira parker making the circumstance in which it's revealed the most dramatically fraught and put it at the exact midpoint of the season is just that That is as it is in the novella, but I thought that whole sequence was beautifully staged. It was so good, and it was, as my friend Martha says, just good telly. Because you see, we've watched, it plays on so many things. Our expectations, our spoiler, potentially having been spoiled or not, our surprise. But also, in a very subtle and clever way, it plays on our, many of ours, decade plus of watching Game of Thrones. Where we know if you punch a prince in the face, it's not going to go great. and there's only maybe one thing that can save you and so they pulled it out of the hat at the right moment. I was thinking about this because these guys, these two characters, the main characters are obviously teaching each other so much both, you know, Egg obviously has this kind of insight into the mechanics of when he comes when Dunk comes back and is like this guy says that he was a lowly crabber and he's like, no, he was actually the son of the guy who ran all crabbing, you know Dunk is teaching Egg about being kind and stepping up for people who need help um it is a lone wolf and cub type relationship and sometimes i think i've kind of resented those because plot armor dictates that the cub can't really get hurt you know and or in the case of mando the cub can't even talk right this guy when you put that in the game of thrones world yeah i wasn't like this dude's gonna get curb stomped but i wasn't not like that I wasn't certain. I was like, this is going to be a tough scene if this dude is acting with no teeth for the rest of this series. But I thought... Dentistry in Westeros. I thought that the way that they did that whole sequence... First of all, I've said this a lot. I think Finn Bennett is a really good actor and also an ace piece of shit on this show. Huge Cobra Kai energy to it as well, which I loved. Super, super Johnny. um yeah the whole thing was really well staged sarah adina smith who's a really talented director um the low angle shot of like egg kind of with the classical music the surging music you know it i thought it was i thought it was excellent and again like the 30 minutes you're enjoying it and then to to land and leave us on a place that flips the entire series was really yeah really expertly done yeah because i think if you're not reading the books or if you're not really reading any spoilers or anything like that you're like oh right this is probably going to build up like a sports movie yeah and then dunk is gonna learn all these lessons from the characters around him and win or come in second you know what i mean and and it's yeah it's different can i ask you a real um house of our question sure is anyone in westeros like white blonde other than targaryens or bastards of targaryens is the hair that much of a giveaway i don't remember one way or another uh yes i think that i think that that is their signature thing from piles of incest piles evocative yeah i mean those two they i think now what has happened over the years is that the targaryens at this point yeah have started marrying other families elsewhere to yes for political purposes like to retain power because they no longer have dragons doesn't have blonde hair uh right etc but that but that was because that was in a that's because as you educated me last week, this is the era No dragons No dragons but still Targaryen rule Though I guess Arian thinks he is a dragon Yes His name is Arion Yeah And he wants he wants to rule a nation He is one of five people to see Melania this week I was going to say he would, he's met his moment. A couple other details about the, about the episode. Before we get into the plot, just another like sort of meta observation, like the, the, the two things that you're not supposed to do in show business. If you want to have a successful or long career is work with children, and our animals. And the entire first section of this episode is a young boy yelling at a horse who is just nodding along and giving, honestly, really good performance. Good horse performance by Thunder. Good horse performance. Is there anything these guys can't do? Very remarkable. I wanted to shout out Dan Romer. He's jamming. He's a great, great composer. Station Eleven, many other things. Did you teach your kids the Alice song after you watched this episode? I didn't. I didn't. No, luckily they're they're now more down like gilmore girls at the moment um which is funny because gilmore girls is just this is not a spoiler really rife with early 2000s pop culture references yeah children are at sea but guess who's there to pick them up in the great big boats of trivia knowledge mr phantom planet exactly um but yeah he hit like the fiddle in the opening this episode he's doing really fun creative work that again it's like a subtle indication of how the show is not game of thrones yes the music is the music is of a world but they are being creative and creating a different atmosphere with it it's just very thoughtfully done um a lot of shitting on the show a lot of crapping a lot a lot of ribald jokes but i mean like game of thrones itself i mean tossing kids out of windows and brothers and sisters having sex you know it's like it's it's a pretty racy world yeah as as is the one we live in apparently apparently as we've learned um yeah i i guess the only other show so it's like it's kind of like they eat bacon egg and cheese sandwiches and hang out yeah but i had a question about that too okay i love you know we spent a decade joe had a problem with the bread to protein ratio oh yeah i well she's first of all she's right but second we spent 10 years covering game of thrones and all i wanted to do was just linger in the spice markets of Essos. I really wanted a little more hot pie. So you said, bring him back. Do you think they have salt? All the salt that I know that they have goes on the beef in order to have a single thing to eat most days. But then when they were cooking those eggs and the bread, I think it just needs a little... Do you think they're seasoning it? I don't know. I doubt it. I don't know what that protein, what that meat was. I assume Westerosi ham. It reminded me a lot of an article I read this weekend about Dan Arlovsky's diet. It's just chicken tenders, isn't it? It's just chicken tenders and no fruit flavor to anything other than fruit. I mean, he looks great. I know. He looks great. Also, maybe his life's simpler. I don't think he had to line up a career. To never have to think about what you want to eat. Except when you go to a rice restaurant and you're like, can you make me chicken tenders? He goes to a steakhouse. Every restaurant, A lot of restaurants have kids' menus. That's true. I think that's fine. I don't think he was worried about – I don't think he had FOMO when he saw the pickled nasturtium flowers on the Noma Courage bagels pop up. You know what I mean? I think he was like, I'm good. What a deep crap. You dug that one out. That was great. I made it. I don't think that's what it was. But it probably was. So the new episodes of these shows will be going up Friday. I don't think you and I are going to be doing a special emergency episode to cover them on Friday. We'll cover them on Monday after the Super Bowl. but we'll be back on Thursday to discuss The Pit and I might ask you to check out Steel. Oh, I've been hearing talk about this. It was pretty good. I watched the first two episodes and I'm like, this is kind of what I want from TV. What is it? It's Sophie Turner plays a woman working at an investment bank that gets robbed in a very spectacular way. That's fun. The opening episode is a really great heist. And then there's a sort of spiraling out conspiracy of sort of bad guys and good guys. And it brings in the government. It brings in cops. It brings in. But she's sort of this central like Hitchcockian in over her head figure in the whole thing. And what services? It's on Amazon Prime, which I think has been doing some great programming recently. Theatrical and at home. Yeah. We should tell the people. I think this is smart by you. I mean, you are generally, you know, you're pretty private about your portfolio and your holdings. But I do believe you were well positioned in Sophie Turner's stock. I feel like you bought early and you held on. You know what it was? Is that right? I didn't really. I just thought she was cool. She was fine. That's, to be clear, her reviewing sausages on Instagram, which she only did briefly, but she discussed on The Dish with Angela Hartnett, the chef. she has a show on in england a podcast but it's basically a tv show uh aren't they all um uh where nick grimshaw and angela are like they prepare a meal as sort of requested by a celebrity and then they interview them while they're eating it's quite charming sophie turner is hilarious on it like she's just seems like a great hang yeah she does she is super english and that she's just like i like a bolognese and otherwise just like a spag bowl a spag bowl and a curry i mean that's all right yeah i rate that that's her dan orlovsky menu i just think i i just am i am i'm genuinely like i think it's impressive when you commit and then you hold your position you don't get wavered i mean i don't know i don't really know much about her other than like i enjoy her in this show and and you're in and tomb raider and tomb raider yeah obviously lara Croft's a huge character for me. Always has been. Yeah. Back to the original consoles that she was on, right? You were like, finally, I've never played Doom Raider. My representation of both womanhood and archaeology. I was too busy with Max Payne, my brother. You play like, oh, right, Max, that was that was your solo journey when you were just like, we didn't like call each other then we'd have cell phones. But the next day at the bar, you'd be like, I was in the dark and a baby was crying. That was the closest I've ever come to like the McConaughey smoking and true detective meme because i was actually smoking looking for the sounds of a baby in a dark room and did rishi stay with you the whole time yeah but he may not have been there you know what i mean who knows we should have a name for this part at the end of the podcast where we just talk about what we want to talk about yeah i mean we we could call it the watch after dark if you want i don't know like i i picked up i picked up my older daughter from a sleepover and and i was asking you know what you guys do do you have a good she's like we had the best time you know we watched played max pain no close she was like uh she's talking about her friend being like further along in animal crossing for nintendo switch and she's just like i gotta get i gotta i gotta spend more time playing video games and i was like you are my child and then she was like oh and we also played this other game that her friend is really into and she said the name of it which escapes me and she's like let me tell you about it and i was like great this is we're alone in the car we got 11 minutes before you go pick up your sister and she's like so you play this woman who goes back to her hometown and and i'm sort of half listening so i was like trying to check the make sure i was going the right way and and she's like and then the the family your extended family who live in the house well the baby falls off a cliff and you play as the baby going off the cliff and then the next thing you know you wake up but then you're playing the mom who's reacting to the baby who went off the cliff and then she goes into a closet and she dies in there and you play it while she dies and then i slowly start to turn to her and i'm like what is the tenor of this conversation because i began the conversation being like cool it sounds really creative what was the game it's some like because here's the thing because phoebe plays my wife plays games where it's like you go you are solving mysteries inside of a house kind of like there's a few independent ones that are really cool yeah um what was it one called like gone home or something like that but what was this one called you don't know i'm i'm googling uh oh i i found it it's called what remains of edith finch and this is you google this by being like threw a baby off a cliff video game nintendo game edith dead family what's it rated i'm the king of google by the way that was elite uh what is it rated yeah are you concerned about your morals or the morals of my child i'm just wondering how they got access to it like if you have to like was it in the just the regular nintendo stream store or whatever stream store it's made by annapurna shout out the uh the ellis's they got the finger in every pie it's rated teen for blood drug references language and violence so it sounds like she's she's got stronger made of stronger stuff than you i just can't maybe i can start programming some of her movie nights honestly you should but ever seen green room like ever seen and i'm like ever seen greenberg like do a double feature the the other thing this is from my parent corner that I want to run by you that really blew my mind. And I know for people who have older kids or people who maybe are parenting better, they may be aware of this already. But my younger child was like looking at YouTube, which is already a slippery slope. And I realized that every video that she watches has a like joking interviewing the cast of Stranger Things component, but it's generally then a split screen of someone playing Roblox, like turning into squirrels and walking into walls. Wait, so I was like, so are they commenting on each other? And she's like, no, it's just something different to look at while I listen. Listen to the Stranger Things? Like both, they are now, like future generations are going to have wonky eyes because most of their YouTube content is, we're so doomed. That said, maybe on Netflix, we could, they could run the rewatchables on half of the screen, press box on the other half of the screen. How often, though, like for instance, when you're doing something or watching something or having conversations with your daughters about their video game content, are you also looking at GameCast? um you really know how to hurt a guy i thought you meant looking at a beautiful new edition from the new york review of books different than the newspaper of course uh publication how often am i looking at gamecast well how often are you second screening your life i did a degree to which i no longer remember anything as evidenced by like the the in memoriam segment of the grammys last night where i was like oh damn about people who left us like six weeks ago right i would say I'm probably doing it to a worrying degree. Yeah. You check out any Grammys? No. Couldn't care less. That's not for you. Yeah. It was amazing that the best new artist category is just all TikTok. First saw one. I saw that. Not best new artist. Rock album, right? Yeah. But they don't show those during the broadcast. That's great. Why would you? That's because all the real heads are in Boston. Yeah. Watch fucking Angel Dust. Wow. Kai, what's the oldest sounding segment we've ever done on this podcast? This is pretty fucking cutting edge. We're talking about indie gaming. Yeah, but we're talking about it from perspective. I'm sorry. I'm talking about it from a perspective of what are they doing? What is this poison entering my kids? Not that it's not a beautiful game, but I'm like, I don't. In three years you'd probably be like, I'd play that with you. You're just not ready for her to grow up yet. That's beautiful. Wow. Damn. This hit me in the heart. I'm just saying. but you could yeah go full simmons listen and be like if you're into that let's watch poltergeist let's watch halloween but i don't want to watch this but but that said this is also the same child who you know first of all they're gonna get into what they're gonna get into as we are evidence of it works out you know as jim dyker explained yeah we're all in a ghost ship yeah might as well have some fun yeah it was a very memorable hike which is something you know we do here in california for those not here and like like on a holiday and my daughter was like i finished i finished the book series that i've been reading i loved it and i was like oh tell me about it and she's like well it's called the hunger games and i was like cool and then she went on to tell me in like i kind of knew the talking points but i didn't know the detail to which every person is savagely killed in the book and i think she was eight she refers to the last harry potter book as the one where 54 four people die did you not experience death as a child like in terms of like what you read didn't you read comic books like genosha happened look at you look at you this is your fucking secret it's not a secret we're talking out i'm almost done you but yeah but you play powers man you play the comic book video game stuff very artfully look man honestly after reading epstein emails for most of the weekend i might just go back to red dead redemption and reading x-men i think it's a i think it's better choice tapping out no i i am with you in the sense that i actually don't feel they're gonna experience culture and it's within limits it's okay yeah and uh they seem fine i try to think if i have anything like uh equally amusing to share with you just like life observations sure i'm getting i'm getting pretty frustrated with dog walkers in Los Angeles. Whoa! Yeah. I feel like we really like there's just such a good we've just hit such a huge problem with like just the volume like every person has a dog now it seems like and they all basically walk down my street and I don't know what I hate more like the half-hearted attempts to pick their shit off of what is constitutes my lawn which is like the piece of green that is outside of my house or the fact that every single one of them walking their dog is completely ignoring stop signs and will just like walk into intersections no matter what while looking at their phone and uh i just need you guys to do better help me help you not hit you with my car i this is again incredible because the pivot from i went to a hardcore festival this weekend to yelling at pedestrian like you know you contain multitudes la also makes me feel empty is this like the quotidian problems that i have when i come back here versus like you know i fought the cold to go see tiger shaw you know yeah but you don't like people long-term listeners know that you have an issue with people running wild in your neighborhood driving too fast that was a whole thing once i got in trouble for that oh right god chased me down because he said i blew through a stop sign i was like i slowed down it's a california roll is that is that allowed it like the california stop yeah is it like california sober come on you you know what this is i've gotten a traffic ticket for california stopping yes they got a lot of stop signs here man with good reason society keeps telling us to go go go why not use that time that's what garen bass is doing just slow down yeah put the second screen away man just be present in your life yeah think about that malcolm jamal warner was never know there might be another yannis podcast out there that you haven't listened to don't get me started on that oh yeah we didn't talk about pg yeah what do you what do you think i i can't comment i can't comment because you know no i don't know and i just feel like it's just it's all too vague you know what i mean i wouldn't want to be like how dare he betray us so that you're speaking about for paul george is an important piece of the philadelphia 76ers renaissance that we're experiencing he's fucking good the other night which is why they immediately drug tested uh yeah but like he said i was questioning renaissance but yes he has been playing well paul george got suspended for 25 games for taking an illegal substance and in his statement was just like i have been working on my mental health yes and was not diligent in checking certain things so and i accept full responsibilities for my actions you can speculate all you want about what that means in relationship to getting a uh a drug violation but yeah um yeah there's a lot of conspiracy to thinking about this. Because it saved the money in the luxury tax. But it also takes Paul George relatively off the board as a trade piece. I don't want those trades to happen. I just think that it's a relatively relatable mistake that he didn't read the fine print on the back of the mojito-flavored Zins. Which is also why you're not playing in the league anymore. I keep getting served. Obviously, I know why I'm getting served this, but it's like pouches that are not nicotine, but are pure focus. What's in them? Yeah. Right? Should I find out? The slippery slope I'm on is that now 70% of the reels that get suggested to me are just fully Italian cooking videos. Not like, here's how to make pasta, but they're in Italian. I imagine for Italians, which I'm really enjoying. I'm kind of getting the vibe. She's sighing over there. I don't think she's loving. but but now you know this is it you can cut you can end the podcast i just want to tell you that they're starting to get they're starting to veer a little like turkish oh oh i know what that means i don't either but i'm like where else is this like like hair transplants or like just like turkish food i just want to know if yeah they're like ah this is like a beautiful lamb skewer i imagine i don't speak turkish uh but like give me time sure but i wonder what it's the gateway to like what's next is it having 34 cats yeah or is it soft authoritarianism i don't i don't know next time on the watch we'll get to the bottom of all of that thanks to kaya could we make like a skinny bundle where people can listen to the podcast can i add something yeah come on jesus um new nancy myers movie with penelope cruz kieran colkin jude law are they actually they're shooting this this spring right like announced christmas day 27 have they wow this all just happened while we were yeah kieran culkin can't be cruising who jude law jude law back is it holiday too were there any plot no it's like she's she's she has like one last i think it's a very uh it's um buildings roman like ella mckay kind of vibes like yeah no i think it's like a it's like a there's something about i thought it was emma mackie is in it too hell yeah brother the mackie sense i like her i do too yeah she it's not her fault you know she made that movie yeah who could have known who who among us thank you kaya thank you kaya thanks chime in whatever especially when we're like in the ninth inning like this do you have anything you'd like to say about like video games or the mutant massacre from the early 90s x-men comics or what you're reading or what you're eating or how you're driving or how he's driving i just finished uh over this weekend among friends by hell abbott um which i did not love okay so yeah no strong wreck that is a perfect 110th minute of the podcast it was okay no to be like didn't quite like it it's a book uh thanks man hey thanks brother thanks to kai thanks to our listeners we'll be back on thursday uh once the pit drops we'll be up after that and we'll have some other stuff for you that night i can't wait you