Allison M. Gibson Meets World

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Obviously my instant coffee's not good enough. The neighborhood starts Friday, 24th of April, on ITV1 and ITVX. Time to sharpen the knife again. Bring on the ding dong. Danielle, I'm a little nervous to start my Lego set. Really? Yes. Why? Because I haven't done Legos in a long time and I'm not a huge puzzle guy. Susan loves puzzles. So it seems like a daunting task to me. No, Legos are easy. Do you want me to come over and we can start it together? Sure. You've got so much free time. Oh, yeah, I know. It'll have to be at midnight, but I do want to come. No, I haven't done Legos in so long and the box is literally sitting next to the table and I keep walking by like, oh, I want to do this, I want to do this. No, Legos are super easy. Are they? Yeah, puzzles. Yeah, because puzzles really, it starts off so overwhelming. Yes. It only gets easier as it goes. By hour six of a puzzle, you're finally like, oh, no, but Legos really, it does go bag by bag and it's basic instructions. Did you do your Lego thing yet? No, I haven't done it. Indy and I, we did a lot of Legos back in the day which meant I did a lot of Legos while he sat next to me. And then he got obsessed with just the characters. He just wanted to play with the figures and dress them up. So he was like a doll Lego player. You know, he never really did the sets. So I've been telling him, I'm like, dude, we have to do the Jolli's thing. We have to sit down and do it. So yeah, you've reminded me. I'm gonna bring it up to you. I was gonna do it the other day and I walked by it and I'm like, oh, it seems like a lot of pieces and a lot of stuff and oh, geez, I can't. And then I get anxious and I'm like, I'm not opening the box. It's great because like Ryder said, you can sit down and say, I'm just gonna do one bag right now. And you just complete the one bag and then you're like, okay, I did my Lego for today. And of course, if you're on a roll and you love it, you can open up the second bag. But I, especially those big ones, I don't sit and do it unless I can say like, okay, I'm gonna commit to at least this many bags. But then it's great because that's a good stopping point. You know, and there's like, it's really easy. I did super soothing. It's not like puzzle. Like, yeah, there's no anxiety. It's just, okay. All right, good. Cause I get my soothing from like when I painted minis, I got soothing. So hopefully that'll be the same thing. I'll be like that too. Okay, all right, that's good. I will also come over and just start, you know? I'm just knocking on my door at midnight. Like, come on, let's start. I will. I'm exhausted now. Come on, I've had two hours of sleep. I'm ready to start another project. I think we should start another podcast about Lego. Oh my gosh. What does everybody think? Let's start the Lego podcast. Pod meets Lego. Lego meets world. Lego meets world. Lego, my pod meets world. Nice. A voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice Came out with Corey and Topanga and we signed pops everywhere and okay All right, should there be an Eric and Shawn of course should there be a place with squirrels of course But how do you not do a Fini? I know how do you not have Corey? Topanga and Fini as as another pop like I don't again I'm the pop guy you see him behind me and I keep all the characters I've ever done And so I of course won an Eric pop or a place with squirrels But how is Fini not the next one you do like you gotta be kidding You gotta be kidding me let's get it together Funko come on you Funko I love me more than anything Funko you are my favorite you're around reach out to them will reach out to them You are the people see every time you and Jensen every time you could say the most esoteric thing and you're like Oh, I know a guy where I don't know anybody at Funko. It doesn't matter what it doesn't matter what it is for you and Jensen You know the person to get it done. I'm not like that, but like just look up Funko PR or And and search some names random cold email Yeah, just so just cold call Funko. Yeah, oh in my head There's a tiny little body with a giant head answering the phone like can I help you? I do know someone who used to work at Funko Told you there you go Susan and I always joke that if there's a phone call in the middle of the night asking for something like you got to get this You're gonna die you and Jensen are our first call because you always it doesn't matter what it is I need a golden drumstick that's actually made of pez and Jensen's like. Oh, yeah, I know I got the Like it's Everybody so yeah, get it done Danielle and okay. All right. All right. All right. We're gonna the Lego set and I need some Funko pops so Let's go Welcome to pond meets world. I'm Danielle fishel. I'm writer strong and I know Danielle fishel I'm British gas have this thing we call it home care We'll fix all sorts and it's unlimited repairs Expert engineers will solve the upset of boilers not boiling or taps that won't wet Electrics playing tricks or a pipe that's broke. We're there for everyone even blue furry folk Your home won't feel booby trapped. It'll feel just like new British gas taking care of things and looking after you T's and C's apply excess options available per repair As we find ourselves winding down with recaps slightly confused with the final season of boy meets world We know the only way to fully understand our show's last few heartbeats is to dig even deeper into the world of writer's room and somehow even after hundreds of episodes We still have some unturned stones I can't believe it either and while some of our guests have boy meets world as the shining centerpiece of their IMDB page Our guests this week went right from Fini's teary-eyed classroom to creating Reba her own smash hit sitcom within a year But before that she wrote four boy meets world episodes season 6 is cutting the cord and the truth about honesty and season 7's You light up my union and the yet to be reviewed the war which we may have to bring her back for Her other credits include home improvement sister sister two guys a girl in a pizza place and most recently awkward But today we are asking her to rewind 25 years and recall everything she can about the TGIF show where she decided to have me sing war for a tag Welcome to pod meets world writer and producer Allison M. Gibson Thank you so much for joining us. I'm so happy to see you guys again last time I saw you We were carrying little signs and walking around the block this is This is so much more enjoyable We are knee deep in season 7 and we have a lot of lay of the land questions So we hope you have a superhuman memory You know either superhuman memory I rewatched and I even took notes Yes, oh I love us. There were things that surprised me. So I needed to go back and go. What I can't believe that Well first let's talk about your start in these writers rooms was your career goal to always be a comedy writer? I came out to Los Angeles to write television. Mm-hmm. So I actually got a job's writing as a Or as a writer's assistant in drama rooms first. Oh, so I was writing spec scripts on my you know nights and weekends and I wrote Drama specs and comedy specs and I just got my break in comedy, but I think I always wanted to be in comedy Big fan of the Mary Tyler Moore show and a lot of those genre where she sort of like broke the world open for women and being Independent in the entertainment industry. So I loved comedy and a lot of comedy writers Transition into drama, but usually the drama writers don't go the other way. So I felt like I had that option, right? So it translates a little bit. Yeah, well, they do say it's easier to make somebody cry than it is to make them laugh But who knows if it's the same in the writing world. Yeah, and I can make myself cry and laugh sitting at the computer We've talked to the few of the other female writers like Barbie Feldman Susan Estelle Jansen who have all detailed about how Difficult it was for women to break into these boys clubs back then It's almost like you had a second job just to assimilate and go along with the fart jokes was that difficult in your experience You know, it's very interesting I speak fluent sports And I Remember I had interviewed for this show twice one year earlier a few years on and I remember coming in and there was like seven women Ten women in the hallway and I thought oh, that's gonna be interesting. Mm-hmm, and I was ill prepared for that meeting For a variety of reasons back then you had to just sit down and you could then necessarily have all the tapes and you haven't seen everything And when I came in for this interview I I remember they were all talking about the Lakers Tishler and Jacobs and Manel and and I'm a rabid sports fan and my dad had season tickets to the Rockets and I went to football games since I was two years old So I just walked in talking sports And to be honest, I think that helps and I'm comfortable in that environment So you look back now in the lens about some of the ways we turned ourselves, you know a little pretzels ourselves to fit in Mm-hmm, and I see that now. I didn't see it then. I just thought this is mostly a man's world This is what these guys talk about. I've been around this it doesn't scare me and so I'm coming in strong with that Yeah, and I really think I got the job. I mean they had great staff that read people ahead of time before you got into these meetings But I also thought I walked in and I can hang with the boys and that really was a requirement Yeah, however, that's the show with the most women I've ever had on a staff in my entire career So yeah, those like those later seasons had the most amount of women. Yeah, and now I came in at co-producer And I believe I was the highest level Woman for both of those two years, which is not that high. What do you think about it? Right, right? so But yeah, but there were a lot of us and so there was you know that voice was in there. Yeah But I came in at a time too so Come in in a season six There was a bit of a boys club there, right? And all those men had been there forever and frankly you guys had been there forever Yeah, like I felt like I don't even know if we ever got Properly introduced you just get thrown into the soup of a show right? Yeah, my in my mind you guys were these grizzled veterans Like half your life you've been on this show Started Absolutely professionals and I felt like you know, I'm what 10 15 years older And I feel like the newbie coming in you know, I'm third or fourth show. I've been on or something like that And just like you know come on ride for the show these people know what they're doing Excuse me Anyway, so it's sort of an interesting Feeling coming into that you you have a show that has that's very successful. It's evolving Yeah, because obviously I didn't get to come in and write you guys, you know in elementary school classes with mr. Feeney But it definitely feels like the train is on the track and it's moving and you have a responsibility You know to move it forward but also maintain it and it's loyalty and and I just thought you guys were You know the ultimate pros and I was sort of you know one of the rookies coming in to Keep the train on the track now you said that so for the first meeting and again You're right It was if you didn't watch the show at the time there were it I think Tivo was maybe just starting to come around but Had you seen or heard of Boy Meets World before the first time you interviewed? The I had seen it when it premiered, but you know as a working television writer I wasn't home those hours right right? Multi-cam writers Multi-cam writers are you know we worked till 10 p.m. On a good night So I was never home to see I certainly wasn't home on Friday night So I had seen it occasionally caught it on a rerun here or there But what they did back in that day if your agent was good is They would Messenger to your house a VHS tape with three episodes on it right and so you would watch that and I remember I don't remember what year I came in but it's another time I was in deep tune jobs and they asked me about the Sean arc and I had seen three episodes Pretty embarrassing that I didn't know that but honestly often you would just get a call We're messing during your tape tonight. There's three episodes go in tomorrow Mm-hmm, and you know sometimes you're prepared for that and sometimes you aren't so I think Second time coming in when they're talking Lakers. That's my lane. I'm ready to go. Yeah, you're gonna show. Yeah, I love the show I love the characters I William Daniels like oh One of my favorite people in the world. Yeah, I was a big saying elsewhere fan So I just was like thrilled to meet him Yeah, although he wasn't in many of my shows oddly enough Or my episodes right but I was thrilled to work with him and super excited and I'm old enough that I remember when 1776 the movie came out in 1976 so I had the soundtrack for that and anyway, I just I just thought he was the crazy in the world So that was super exciting for me. Yeah, your first TV gig was the TV adaptation of parenthood Not the Jason Cadems one from 2010, but this was in 1990. So guys listen to this cast Ed Begley, Jr. Jane Atkinson Ken Ober David Arquette, Thora Birch and a young Leonardo DiCaprio How did this only go one season? Isn't that insane? It's it's just crazy when you look back on it In that time period and this was my my first staff job my first Yeah, staff job as a writer There were mostly multi cams live audience then they didn't have a single cam You know now that's the cool thing to do and you know, even some people Critically they always like the single cams though. It's the multi cams that last forever. Yeah but I Don't think NBC knew what to do with it They made a one-hour pilot that was written by Lulganza and Bob Lee Mendel who goes to parenthood movie and a million other movies and NBC bought it as an hour I don't know what happened and then they decided and they made a wonderful hour pilot that felt more like the Jason Cadem version later and then someone said let's do it as a half hour single camera and They buried it on a Saturday night between two multi cams. Oh and to be honest, I don't think the audience knew what to do with it I don't think they quite understood it and so we were An instant bomb I did very poorly and I wrote the last episode that was shot and so You know pre-social media or whatever. I Send out a little postcard to all my family and friends telling them I mean, I think it's like December 13th my show is gonna run or whatever and The day before they preempted it said how we're gonna bury the rest of the shows will rerun them one more time in the spring Oh Was it was it based on the was is the same characters as the film or was it a different family? No, it's the same thing. It was okay. Yeah, so Ed Bagley was was Steve Martin Yes in the show gotcha another guy. I love Ed Bagley. So he's also was a same elsewhere star So I got to work with Ed Bagley and then William Daniels, you know A few years later was like it was a dream for me Kid from Texas coming to Hollywood working with my idols It was a big trend at the time to make TV shows out of movies and all of them failed some other ones from that same year Were baby talk which was based on look who's talking Ferris Bueller and Uncle Buck So just seemed like something that just didn't take off with movies And oh that cast William Wyndham. I mean, yeah, it was phenomenal and Yeah, I keep always wanted to run into Leo and telling him how we met and And but haven't worked with David or Kett later again and and Ed Bagley as well But Leo, I think he's been busy apparently. He's doing okay. Yeah, he's doing okay Wait, so is he the leaf at the time leaf Phoenix character? Yes, yeah, I'm a trouble kid. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I'm trying to put the cast together in my head. I'm trying to see yeah Interesting. Yeah, okay. So after that show gets canceled you find yourself on America's number one show home improvement. I Mean really a case of landing on your feet I'm sure this room had some heavyweights in it and you're still at this point pretty green How did you or did you ever experience any sort of imposter syndrome or just nerves in general? I? think early on I was a little too naive to know To be as nervous as I probably should have been I Will say it was extreme. I did work with Susan the year. It was an extremely difficult room. Yeah and there was a lot of hierarchy, so We were not even on the stage when the show shot. Oh They had a writer's room That and a TV screen up for us. So we weren't weren't involved at all in the shooting Unless it was your episode and even then you sat in the audience. So it was very much run by the top three guys You sat in the audience for your own episode for your own episode. Yes now Now remember to my early jobs were Hourlongs right so and then my first half hour is a single camera So I didn't know how weird it was again I didn't know how naive and how strange things were done there, but it was done very strange You know what I learned later and we were kept out of things There were generally two writers rooms often at a time basically The three-head writers and a couple people working and then everyone would rotate out. It was a very strange situation. It was Yeah, it was not a it was not a great situation Yeah, okay Just the first year just that first year. It's funny. I got I Got engaged while I was on that show which was on the Disney lot Yeah, and then I got pregnant while I was on the Disney lot while I was on your show So I think I found fond memories of the Disney Love the Disney yeah Yeah, it's like a lot after home improvement You make a few stops on shows like sister sister and another one called fudge that sounds delicious and then Boy meets world. How did boy meets world end up in your orbit? I know you had said you had that first interview that you didn't feel prepared for How did you who called you about the second interview? Okay, we missed a couple and there's also show called Kirk and Miko I worked on Kirk. Oh, you did You're in Kirk. I did a guest star a guest star on Kirk. Yeah, I take it. That's Kirk Cameron. Mm-hmm Yeah, and Migo with Bronson for show Okay, so And now you have to remind me the question. How did I end up there? Yeah, who called you for that second for that second interview? You know your agent just calls and says There's we're sending three things over go over there. Okay, and I'm Dawn Tarnosky, yeah, yeah, yeah, she was Michael's head of development Yes, and she had had me on her radar for a while great And so I think that was part of how that you know She had me that a slot came open again and so I came over for that and Don was great It's really smart woman and went on to do a million amazing things. Yeah, we loved Don And so what was entering the boy meets world writers room in season six like you mentioned they were talking a lot of sports What what we had heard from Manel especially about season seven that there was maybe a lot of tennis being played I guess Michael was tennis I am I Played tennis but out there there was a lot of sports talk and so when I came in in season six I took over the sports pool. So I ran the sports So I passed out the The NFL games and the spread I Think I started in season six. I know I did it season seven Or once a week we put that out and everyone picked a pick and figured out who won at the end of the week And we had a pool at the end of the season I think it was a pretty friendly room I feel like there was a group that really knew each other very well sure and the rest of us that were sort of working our way in But it was a fun group they had their routines They had the way they like to do where they like to eat what they did and so it felt like you were trying to As sometimes you know staff comes together and sort of coalesce and find your rhythm They had a rhythm and I felt like those of us coming in it was our job to sort of find that rhythm and see sevens You know, they knew it wasn't gonna go past that unless there was some involvement and so You know, those are the most fun times and yeah, I remember we had them I think my episode was next and Michael said we're gonna do a table read and then he said His way of saying if it's in English we're going to the movies meaning if it's not the worst thing ever on the world We were headed to the movies that afternoon So that's you know sort of at the end of seasons that was really Those were fun times because you weren't working ahead on the next season I remember that and thank goodness my script was in English and on we move Your first script was cutting the cord which was focused on some Sean and Angela Drama but included the somewhat infamous karaoke scene Sort of a heavy world to start with what do you remember from that episode? Well, I'm pretty sure I got that one because I was pregnant. Yeah, so And I don't remember whether I had started Birthing classes or not, but I'm sure that's why that episode ended up with mine being mine And I thought that was super fun. I loved everything you got to do and their will that was That was the Lamar's class right? That was super fun And the Angela, you know, we always loved the drama of the Angela and Sean and It was fun I just and I watched it again recently and I laughed out loud with the restraining order because I thought that was so appropriate There's so many things that Can show up in later seasons that because we know you and what you've done in the history that all that plays That's fun that plays but when shows start becoming not just about the episode but also about the history of them In those later seasons and they sort of play on each other. I think that's really fun. So I loved it I loved the karaoke. I And the tag when you and Ben are like killing war was just various. I loved it We had a big conversation about what that original tag was that what were we just breaking were you know, like what Was it always supposed to be us laughing like we talked a lot about what that original tag was was written as I Cannot remember. Yeah, so funny. I mean, I don't know, you know, the way it was edited We didn't get much of it in the first pass. So yeah, I would Whether there was another tag written or we just said we have to get more that moment. It's gold Yeah, that's that's likely what was What happened, I don't remember whether it was from the top or again I didn't I wouldn't watch the scripts, but I didn't actually look for them. So yeah, I'm curious to see if there was a first draft Different tag. Oh, I would love that if you can find it. We would love to see it The other thing I'm so curious about is there's writers filtering in and out kind of every season and when you're on a long-running show When you join the the writing staff, do they sit you in a room or tell you like? Start from episode one watch the pilot and move forward watch every episode of the show So you get here because we've noticed you come to season seven and our characters are so different than what they used to be It was kind of like everything was thrown out the window. So we're wondering I Mean again, is it the kind of thing where you've got to learn about the history of Topanga? You've got to learn about the history of Cory and Topanga You've got to learn about Sean or are you just thrown in and let's write the characters from here Well, you know, it's very different than today because today you'd get on a streaming service And you watch every episode and you would show up way more prepared. I learned things about your characters And about your personal experiences by listening to pod meets world that I didn't know But I didn't know we violated in season six However, I wasn't there to say that but there was plenty of men in that room that could have say that doesn't that doesn't Jock, you know, yeah So I also think there's a couple, you know, we brought Maitland came in in season six and I do think that there was a A push and you're saying you mostly noticed it in seven and look sharks happen in seven Yeah Look, I I don't know if we're gonna get there. I mean, but you know, I didn't even know what an organ grinder was and I had That's not a shark jump. I love the emotion of it. Yeah, sure But uh, yeah, and he was dressed like he came off the set of uh, Renaissance play. I don't know. Yeah I Yeah, I can promise you in the room someone pitched. What if it's an organ grinder and because we didn't have google then I went to said Because I had no I mean once someone told me what it was, but I don't know how that came about I think we all agree. It's the second monkey that sold it Yeah, the female monkey comes on laryx girlfriend. Exactly. That's the one that really that's now we're now we're there And eric christmas is just a legend an incredible rest in peace fantastic actor But as I watched that He played the whole thing as a scam Without yes that it wasn't right and so to me I'm like, what are we doing? I mean, you know overall thematically and I think that's what people gravitate and I I think people You over alert certain things when you know the history of the show You know the fact that Eric's charm has a place in this world and a place in business and And shouldn't be overlooked. I thought was wonderful and yeah, yeah, I watched it. I went. Oh, thank goodness We got to a nice place But when I watched that you know performance and the other thing Matthew took that money And gave it to a stranger with no way to pay it back now Eric thinks that the monkey is going to come back and give him the money What? Exactly thinking no hope is Just absolutely bizarre. Yeah, uh, so yeah again You know, was there a great theme there that we had that somehow we got bigger and bigger with? Um I don't know. There's another thing that happens when shows get into that six and seventh year Um, you know will you could walk out there and say holy bananas out of context and the audience is just gonna go Yeah, yes, you know they they just You know, there's so much history and if you and you know, daniel you and quarry bicker Whatever you say to each other if it's meaningless we'd laugh because we're just invested in you and we love you and you can pretty much Do no wrong And that helps the show and it also hurts the show right because writers can get very lazy Because you go to a run-thrower and like are you kidding that joke kill? Let's go home tonight, you know, right? I don't want to accuse any one of that but I just it gets more complicated in those late later years um, also in season six, um Bob tishler ran the room more and I think I at least what I detect from the shows I watch and whatever I think that season had a little bit of a different Feel to it. Yeah One of the things that was going on they were trying to get a little more friends like Yeah, yeah and um I think the apartment was set up and you know trying to have them be Just more like this multi-group of friends making it out in the world And I think there was there was a concerted effort to sort of set that up I know one of my episodes with the dinner party was sort of I'm approaching that Sort of that tone which I think my memory was a network directive starting of the year And I think Michael had another project and so My first experience with the show was that Bob tishler ran the room almost all the time and then season seven that switched And Michael ran the room all the time. I want to say season six Michael was gone for zoe duncan jack and jane Okay, I'm pretty sure that's the one because I did an episode of it and I had the long hair So my guess is that's the season he was gone And yeah, and bob was running the room that make that makes sense. But yeah, that's my first comes back and it's different Yeah, yeah, and that was my first experience of the show is that Michael came in for some table reads and some notes But that bob ran yeah, and bob also rip was a super funny man a delight to work with yeah always um I just loved the way he ran the room Yeah, it was very egalitarian the way he did it and he had always had a great spirit I don't think I ever saw bob in a bad mood. Yep. Um, which is certainly I can't say for every show I've ever been on Uh, so yeah, he was the delight and that might have just been a little bit of a different tone because he was You know the head writer at that time. Yeah, right? Okay, who's all in for cancer research uk's race for life. We're doing pretty muddy. It's an obstacle course There's one for kids runners walkers book clubbers nick clubbers 10 pin bowlers God knows whether you climb it slide it or crawl it go all in against cancer all in to help fund life-saving research Join our london events throughout the summer sign up now and save 50% off entry visit race for life dot org Discount ends 19th of april 2026 teas and seas apply Ciao Gina. Oh, yes. I'm still all the day in sorento my love. Yes I got everything sorted before I left and renewed my aviva health insurance Something relaxed the sun is shining retired life suits me From insurance to wealth and retirement. We can help solve life's financial puzzles Hmm. How's the restaurant? Oh good. You're doing great What it's just one tiny canola. Don't tell your nuna Making a click it takes aviva. It's louis and ana the host of Luhana The podcast full of honest upfront opinions rants bounce and general exciting content Our latest episode is sponsored by mns and their incredible body range of underwear It's fun. It's sexy comfy and it just makes you feel empowered Underwear that's on your body not on your mind shop the body range now at marx and Spencer dot com or in store And you can find our podcast luana on global player Do you think kori and tupenga were a good couple? Well, I would have to ask you what good means. Yeah I mean, certainly the audience loved you together was together and I think it's a falseness of hollywood storytelling that We want people who meet at young ages to stay together forever to evolve together and make all life choices together um, I I remember when my daughter cried when the um The twilight couple broke up because Gosh, they were together in the movie and through all four and then they broke up, you know But it's also I remember when his aunt and england said they're 22 Yeah, where were they and they've been together like six years. What are they gonna stay together their whole lives? so You know, I think there's audience expectation For couples and then there's realistic writing and I don't know that that's necessarily what the multicams are based for Right. I have to say when I went back and watched The Yale discussion and that being reminded that Topanga gave up Yale to be near kori Would that show and be written that way 10 years later? I'm not sure right right That's the episode you mentioned the dinner party episode is the truth about honesty And it's Topanga's drama around sharing a toothbrush with with kori That is one of the three episodes that was banned from the disney channel during syndication. Were you surprised to hear that? Oh, wow. I didn't know that. I'm I'm missing checks. Yes. Yeah, disney channel. Yes You know, okay, so I sat down to watch it and um My older sister had an issue with Using her Husband's razor and they had fights about that. So I I believe that this story started Out of a real thing from my life. I love that which is a lot of what I think really good stuff comes from I had forgotten about the toothbrush thing to be honest. Um And although that's an issue Because I forget my toothbrush sometimes and I'll use my husband's and he's a good sport about that But when I saw this exchange no tushy no brushy I really almost gasped right Yep, I I'm gonna be honest. I went are you? I was like what? um I will say no tushy no brushy is not my personal voice. So I I didn't think it Really? That's not your voice. No, if you want a fun drinking game, though Take a shot every time we say tushy in the last two seasons. Tushy is a big big favorite word Yeah, I mean and you know come in at a quarry. It's cute, but isn't well You know what it's a cute word except in what he's trying to get you to which frankly Don't think is right and right and I think and the Compromise she made at the end. I was trying to like Where did the first draft of this go and how did it get? Yeah, because um Yeah, I I was not a proud of that ending at all and it's too bad because I was watching it I really like the episode. Yeah, I like um I think I identified a little bit with Rachel in the sense that She was coming into this Artie group of friends. Yeah at all these relationships all these histories and now she's got to fit in and find herself Right. Um, so I had I liked writing for in the in the episodes. Um, which is also a nice development for Rachel because So often she's just been the object of Eric and jack's scrambling love triangle, you know and so for her to have her own. Yes, she's yeah, she's in um lingerie far too much for my Again, that's not um a decision that I Was in charge of yeah For all of the women that we had in the writers room season six and seven especially There are still a lot of choices made in Those episodes where you go. Oh, I can I can tell where some someone was overwritten Like where there was some outside. It's very clearly a male pov Yeah, right. I mean this show is driven by a male pov and it's called boy meets world It is boy meets world and and all the final say's are From men and then again, I again, I think you become a victim of your success Because while I can go guys, I don't know. Are you sure? You go down to set No tushy. No brushy. I'm sure everyone roared. Yeah, right, right. So So You go, oh, well, maybe I didn't see it right or right. I guess it is funny, right? Well, it's funny, but it's yeah Yeah, I I had um Anyway, it's too bad because I actually liked her I think there's that what we were trying to do a little bit You know, there's coming out of college and what is a party? Well, we got the six packs and wine and we have chips and dip that's a party, right? Right and then when you start getting a little later into your 20s You think I might actually serve a meal and we right, you know, we could sit down and be civilized and And and you're sort of trying to find yourself and I thought, you know, I liked Rachel trying to find her identity And who is who is she in this and can we be a little more grown-up instead of acting like those sort of kids? We did and I liked that and I liked the way it was shot and it played through there and I like the idea of Is true honesty good in a relationship and is it not and I think um, I think topanga's Thoughts on that was a tiny bit naive because It's great. We want honesty but on the other hands, you know, again I think that's a very young point of view you get a little older and you go, you know what a little A little distance or a little Perspective on what people need to know and don't need to know is better. Yeah, not every thought that enters my head needs to be set out Loud. Yeah That's not a lie. That's not a lie. So yeah, but I think that's a very young girl We've been taught honesty is important and that's what makes relationships last So I I totally buy her point of view in that. Yeah, um, and but how it went to Tushy brushy and how did you feel about walking back in the room? Saying you had shown him your tush. I know. Um, I mean, I really we've talked about it now, especially with season seven But I had I don't know exactly when it was that it happened But I there was a certain point where I where I checked out where I realized like There and the quarry into the quarry into panga dynamic had just become him badgering her and trying to wear her down and uh, you know, I even though to be totally fair I think at the time I also thought Yeah, why is to panga such a prude? Why is to panga? You know, there were there? I was judgmental of her as a character Because I you know our set was very male dominated it was a boy pov and I think I did have that feeling of like to panga is withholding from this, you know, they're in a they're in a committed relationship What's the big deal? So I don't remember exactly how I felt but I do remember feeling like oh man This is just going to keep being this conversation back and forth until they get married Yeah, and I I think it was a it's definitely a disservice To your character in the sense you're right. You were in a committed long-term relationship But it did feel like a withholding. It's very stereotypical. Yes, not that this doesn't go on I mean look at every episode of you know, everybody loves Raymond. Mm-hmm. You know he won sex. She's like and you know, right, I do feel like I didn't feel good about it. I didn't think it was great I felt like I felt like a lot of things I found the inner theme where I feel like it started and then there was where it went to Yeah, um and the idea that somehow also Revealing a a tush was somehow A step in the right direction Or something that was a robotic and somehow got them closer and a willing exchange for the situation. It's just bizarre Just bizarre. So I guess I'm glad I'm banned but darn it Money out of my bank Do you remember maybe especially in season seven because you spoke so highly of the writer's room in season six Do you remember any moments of conflict over story lines or character development? Was there ever Big back and forth about what an episode was going to be about I I think there was a lot of Debate about the getting married. I think there was a lot of I guess Yale was season six or was it seven I think there was a lot of debate about Yale. I think there was a lot of debate about should we get them married um I think michael absolutely had the vision on we're gonna have the baby come in and he wanted it to be a Premature baby like one of his was yeah that train was going there was no um You know, there was no stopping that and I remember I asked one time I I think I was again again Best recette recollection possible could be wrong But I I think I was wondering why if they were going to get married that maybe they didn't even move home or something Like where were they going to get the money? Yeah for that situation and um I'll confess I said how are they going to get the money and they said they're going to get the money from the wedding and I said how do they get money from a wedding? And it was because it was a tradition to give cash For a wedding, but I had not experienced that where I grew up In the south where you you know, you gave a plate set instead of money. Nobody can right yeah, but michael that experience was very um Important and traditional and so I remember I think he was he was mad at me for for questioning that situation And it was again, you know again something I've been accused of a lot. It was my own naivete. I didn't know that was a tradition Right, right? Well, I don't think the majority of people come away from weddings feeling like they have suddenly a lot of money Yeah, they're flush with cash all of a sudden You feel like wow, we just spent so much money on a wedding now. We've got to rebuild our life because we spent it on the wedding Yeah, it was so you know, I I do think there was discussions about that um I certainly wouldn't been in favor of her not going to Yale and I would guess we talked about that but I also again The you know, I I started as a co-producer um Season six. I was producer on seven that was the highest level woman in the room and there were Two supervising two co-exec an exact You know, it was a lot and a consulting all You know five or six men higher than me at the time And I'm not saying that in a judgmental way. I'm just saying the final say was not in the female voices Yep, right. No, we were allowed to speak. You know, we were allowed to speak But ultimately we did not have final say right so and I obviously I didn't walk off and say You know no tushy. No brushy. I don't want to do this show But my guess is I sat there kind of like you Danielle and I went People laughing. Yeah It must be good. I I guess right. Maybe I'm a little prude. I don't know right wouldn't be my taste But what do I know? Yeah, right is that is that then kind of is can we can we kind of attribute that to how then Eric turned into season seven Eric who's so big And so off the rails. I mean was it just kind of like well, let's write it big and it's funny You know I think there's a laziness to later season story writing And I think that's more common when you have people that have been there the whole time I actually don't attribute that to the people coming in If you if you've got to really dive in and find the stories and the character growth or you just Write what is already a winning formula. You're just reiterating as opposed to being creative for the same degree. Yeah, that makes perfect Yeah, you know, you can either get in and write and find layers to Eric or You know, like I said, you could say anything and people laughed and loved you. Yeah, and so I think it's so unless you have someone that is really Raining that in And you know and also going to run through some whatever and like let's find the meat of this scene and let's make it work And not get an easy laugh because you can go down and you have a A bad scene and if you get a great blow and people are tired and want to go it doesn't get the work it needs And that's really important not to get the cheap laughs because And it's again, it's you know later seasons versus earlier seasons because you could all say anything We gave you and make it work and get a laugh. There's as you know, there's a rhythm to multi cam. Yeah and We the audience knows those rhythms and they laugh I I remember when my father came out and watched one of my first multi cams and he's saw us standing behind the The camera is a laughing and he'd see us, you know, me laugh on first take third take whatever and he goes You know what the punchline is? Why do you keep laughing? And I said well because they delivered it well and had the right rhythm and I want them to feel it and because they is a funny joke but Audiences are like that too and they're laughing and they love you Yeah, and and they'll laugh at a good joke and they'll laugh at a terrible joke because you gave a terrible joke and you Maybe rolled your eyes at them or whatever. So yeah, was there a conscious discussion in the room? Let's make eric bigger. I don't believe that's the case. Yeah But did I see a monkey and Nessie, why couldn't they disney ban that one? Because again, there's two monkeys That's what makes it work I hope they're getting their residuals Because they were great um, well that was Marcel was Marcel for Marcel was a lot of fun. Yeah Yeah, yeah, well We had a friend's crossover. How about that? Yes, exactly. There you go For season seven we have already seen one of your two episodes so far We have seen you light up my union, which is a wild episode. I think we got most hung up on the invasion of rachel's privacy Do you have any memories of developing her character or maybe lack thereof developing her character? so That was another Moment for me watching it. Yeah, um And I try I was trying to put it in context If you this was an early season of a show I don't think you're forgiven You're forgiven the men for what they did for crossing those boundaries and all of that And um, I also think it's just such a cheap Again, it's this voyeuristic women are withholding men or you know, yeah, yeah or such a trope in the 90s though the It definitely is. Yeah, but So to me I find what you know, what was done reprehensible But I think what happens is it's the time we We know kori and shon Yeah, you've seen them since their kids they Don't have ill intentions. They're just sweet Crazy boys sex crazy boy. Like you overlook stuff because we know them So for new generations that watch it from the beginning and binge it They're probably like, oh, that's creepy. But oh my god, they're sweet. She needs to get over it, right? But if you just stopped and watched the show like I did out of context, you're like Yes Wrong, this is right. What and and why are the girls like overgiving it and not defending her Right because this is an ultimate invasion of privacy and boundaries But again, I think it's because you're trapped in the same story You've known them forever. You know, they're not creepy guys who you know go out and do this and say you overlook it But that said I think it's a story flaw and I you know, I don't think it's a good message That's true though. You do get that with with long-term television shows The long-running series where you bank so much goodwill with the characters That you can dip into that bank and have them do some pretty horrible things And it's okay because of the history Yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's really interesting to look at it that way because it's true You are your that we had one guest come on who said that Eric could Eric could even say the worst things the world but people like him so much and he has such that that Bank of goodwill that you can dip into that whenever you need to kind of take them in another direction So it really is an interesting way to look at that where it is. It's disgusting and reprehensible But you're right even to panga goes like how do you not love them? So it is you're using that kind of the the the goodwill you've banked over that number of seasons It's a really interesting way to look at it. Yeah, yeah And the audience knows if they've been watching from the beginning, you know, these are not bad guys They're just you know, they made a mistake or they did a prank or it was silly But you know, they're not creepers Right, but if you watch it out of context, you don't have that goodwill like what the what that's yeah It is reprehensible and again, it's sort of the flaw of This long-term storytelling that we with characters we fall in love with you get away with a lot So yeah, not not thrilled with that either We all we have that we have those moments A Year after boy meets world ended you created Reba a massive sitcom both emmy and golden glowed nominated and apparently there were no parts for us Sounds like fun How were you how were you paired with reba mackentire and and how did it kind of overlap with boy meets world? Well, it did overlap boy meets world. I'll tell you that so in the season seven in the fall, I had my New born because my daughter was born march 31 at the end of season six and um The word was coming down the show may Do an eight season or be morphed into something else? I think the rumor was michael was going to take it to new york and they were in apartments there or something like that so um I my agent was like, you know, you need to write another spec going to need a job, you know I'm like, okay, so I had had this idea for quite a while and I would get up and you know Press feed my child in the middle of the night Or feed my you know two four in the morning and I would watch reruns on nicolodeon and I kind of got this idea a little bit fleshed out in my head and I started writing it on spec on um While I was on the show So I wrote an outline and turned it into my agent sometime around Thanksgiving break um and then uh, he said I'm just write the whole thing as a spec don't let's don't we were gonna pitch it at first I think and then I think the idea is you'll never sell a show with a pregnant teenager. So Well, had him write it because he felt like I could write it in a way that someone might Consider buying it and I wrote it over Christmas break season seven um, and I sold it um I got a We had multiple studios interested and sold it in um I think it closed sometime around mid-February So riba wasn't attached. You didn't write this for her. No, in fact. Wow In fact, it was called sally. I was definitely playing on the rosanne. You know, I wanted to be a strong uh family show with a mom at the center of it um, and I in one of those late night Sessions feeding my daughter sally field had popped on an episode of murphy brown That was rerunning it like three or four in the morning that I was watching and I really thought she was perfect for this role So in the ultimate suck-up I called the it was called sally And yeah at sally and then the pilot title was life and other indignities And um, I wrote it as a spec like that and it sold as a spec And it's a little backwards now. Usually the studio gets involved after it's bought by a network, but um We were bought by the studio first And then they actually went out To sally field and we waited six that I went on two guys and a girl um On the overall deal at at fox while they were casting sally field was Not interested in doing television at the time. So we started casting about midway through the casting process in that fall the next fall after one east world Reba McIntyre came in and I just I'm a southern girl and I have uh, you know her music I was a fan of and she had star quality as you know You've got to be able to hold a camp stage And you guys all have it she had it. She you know all eyes turn when she walks in the room And um, so yeah the we she was did she read for it? Yeah, she read for it. So she auditioned for the show that eventually was named after her Yes, well, yes, and that there's a great story about how it ended up being named by her. But yes, that's true He came in as an audition for sally schlindwein. I believe was the name at the time My yeah, she blew herself in from nashville. Um, there's I've heard a couple of different stories One that her manager found it another mine. I was talking to my cast director recently And he was saying that he had reached out to her manager and that's how her manager found it Greg orson magnificent casting director. So probably whatever he says is exactly right. Yeah, but yeah, she came in and read for me and then over Christmas time she came in and um read for the studio and network And then she opened on broadway in any get your gun in january And probably she was such a big hit in that we probably couldn't have gotten her had the studio not made the deal prior to that Wow So yeah, and then how did she end up naming the show riba? well, so um, I She had wanted to and I agree. We were trying to do a rosanne thing. Why wouldn't we call the show? Um, riba the network was concerned it might give her too much power Right the network was all about we're the show about young people and you know We think it's better to sell it as the young people than as a show about the mom But I always knew the show was Centered and run by the mom. So I was fine with changing her name So what I said, well, look, okay, we won't change the name of the show Let me just change her character name because that made riba happy. So we changed it and made her riba heart. Yeah, and then we We still hadn't found a title for the show and um, I had a friend pitch deep in the heart Which I kind of like because it sounds like Texas and and you could play with the heart of the fact that their last name was hard That kind of worked. So that's what it was when we got picked up and went to new york um, and then there was some kind of publicity Dust up and I don't know all the details But they did something not right in new york that offended a few people And all of a sudden the show was named riba I wonder if that's ever happened in television history somebody comes in to audition for a role They still have to screen test for studio and for network and then the show's named after them afterwards I don't know if that has ever happened before because you think about it signfeld Or rosanne any of these shows grace. I mean these are all grace under fire These are all shows that were created for the lead of the show So I wonder if the reverse has ever happened. That's might be the only time in television history. That's ever happened. That's really cool Yeah, and she you know, she was right for the role and she does own and center the show So it made perfect sense. I I never had any problem with the show being named Yeah So yeah, we noticed quite a few familiar names on that show patty car laura runnels gary miller Were you trying to bring some boy meets world friends over to the riba room? I was I was I would have I would have brought more if I could have I also doored working with david brownfield and oh, yeah, and and and barbie and erica Um, yeah, I mean I had I enjoyed my experience at boy meets world Um, and I thought there was some smart good writers there and so I brought some over um and yeah, how to I would again I It's you never should bring everybody over because you need more diversity in the rooms and you need to get new voices and you get You know, you become a writing family and you're a little you know, you become more insular than you even know you are Um, but it was fun to bring a couple of people. I knew that were talented and you know again I would have brought them all over it wasn't But that's not the smartest thing to do right What did you think about running a room where there are there specific things you thought? I'm gonna I had seen this done at boy meets world I'm gonna take this with me and were there other things where you were like I have seen this done on boy meets world I am not gonna do this So leave the word tushy out of every square You know, I think you can watch every season and I don't believe we have tushy so yeah you know I wish I had been on more rooms before I um Ran a room And I will have to say there are things I learned about Your situation from the podcast that I didn't know And there's just certain things as a mid-level writer. You just don't know what's going on Danielle, I wanted to cry when I heard about you, you know having to do your hair before you came in Like that was crazy and also Michael's technique of giving notes in front of everyone and sort of like you know It felt very luxury Maybe to you. I don't know Yeah, I mean There was You know, it was interesting to me as I told you we were completely left out of everything in home improvement It was a very very hierarchical room. And so You don't necessarily hear network notes to your notes, whatever So while I appreciated the chance to being able to listen to that and see how certain Notes evolve and and why we make we're making certain choices in rewrites um I don't think that was a great method Method of giving notes in front of everybody the way that was done And that is one thing I I I did take from Michael. Now. I don't think my notes were ever Harsh But I don't necessarily think cast notes like that is necessarily the way to go And another thing I did and I I specifically did this to not be like boy needs world in the sense I really felt like sitcom directors were not given quite the respect that they should be And so I thought who am I to give an actor's note? Right. I know how I want it to play on screen. But let me tell this person who works with them all day long I don't like this. This is too heavy or too this or can we try something different? There seems to be whatever So I did that I made a real effort to let my directors do all the talking to the actors and I think I think that served me to a point and then I also think the relationship Is very important to have with the actors. So there's some plus and minus with that But that's one thing I I definitely did differently You know, you learn other things The showrunners that want to fix a joke on page three when you're fresh at 8 p.m And then you get to the real meaty problem of the script On page 25 at two in the morning you're exhausted. So right right It worked out four or five in the morning on home improvement all the time and Oh All the time I get in my car at five in the morning drive to my over the hill back to my apartment So I'm gonna get up be back at one and we do it. We did seven days a week That's crazy. Oh, man. It was absolutely crazy. I can remember like there was pre uber Like thinking I don't know if I can drive home. I might just need to sleep on the sofa Yeah, so I made an effort that I didn't want you know, we tried to get the work done If we need to fix a joke, let's let's work on the hard stuff first And we can put up jokes later and things like that. So I try to take little tips from different writers I work Good showrunners that I've worked for But yeah, and you know, I I remember you guys said you were talking about directors you really loved and I don't think we ever talked about that the way writers look at directors is who's ready on time Oh, wow, right? Yeah, well, that's why we see in season seven. They were just giving us so many different directors like looking at the list and we're like, oh, Steve Haver got an episode and Jerry Levine was doing and it's like and we love those people and they were and I'm glad they got a chance, but it was also like Sort of like let's just give everybody a chance like it's not because I don't think it's because Michael thinks that a director does Is an essential element. I think it was just oh, we can do a favor for a friend and let them do that And but yeah, he yeah, definitely does not did not consider directors and he also wanted to be I think in his heart He always wanted to be an actor So his notes his note sessions were him on stage that was him performing for everybody around So I was like true and I'm sure somebody's talked to you how we did writers table reads. Did anyone bring that up? Yeah Yeah, yeah, never I've never been on. I mean I've been over a lot of shows and nobody ever I Because we're not actors And You know you and you could cast your script with everyone around the room and if like someone killed one of your jokes You're like, oh, we're gonna be here after that because you couldn't deliver that, you know, right? Like you're not writer, you know Yeah, that's total sense one thing I wanted to bring up Have you guys talked about the um The dance routines No, let's I mean a little bit. Oh, you mean our dancer team the the The band is the best three boys. Yeah, we have Okay, yeah, what what are your memories of it? I have to say That was so much fun. That is a good season. When you said I have to say Yeah, we were like, oh god, we were making your life hell by shutting down the show Okay, no, no, I thought it was no because again late season Yeah, season one season two guys Yeah Season six season seven they love you. It was hilarious. I never I always like wherever I was I had to run out and see it And to see the audience just like you were Like they were the Beatles or the badstree boys. It was crazy And when we rip off a shirt or whatever That was absolute hilarious and and just a golden weird funny moment that would only And show that's a beloved show that's been on for a long time. So you didn't do that. You didn't have a dance break on reba We did not have a dance That's crazy. Just just just ammy nominations We had awards we had we had been taking a shirt off they had awards. Yeah Are you surprised at all that 30 years later people are still discovering boy meets world I am and I'm not I'm actually thrilled for it. I I just think I think shows with resonance That they hit a certain time period and they become beloved and Uh, and they're important. And so I just think that's really just amazing. I'm thrilled to be a part of it. Um It's been fun. I because I have it like I said home improvements a number one show at the time or whatever um, but um Reba and boy meets world have both had a huge resurgence and particularly over um Through the covet time when people found stuff on streaming and whatever um, and no matter where I go I've judged some film festivals and did some different stuff from whatever Um, it's the two shows people always bring up to me and um, they always come up and ask you about you guys and my experience there and this and and And that they grew up with it and they love it and it's beloved and um, so I mean did I know that after I wrote the organ grinder? Episode and the future band episode no tishy brushy. I will say at the time. I did not know Um, but I I'm proud to be associated with it And and I'm really happy for for you guys and I'm glad people are seeing it. Yeah Well, thank you so much for being here with us and for sharing your wisdom and your insight It's nice to catch up with you. We should uh get together and have lunch and share stories. Um Thank you just so much for for coming and sharing your experience with us That'd be that'd be great. It's great to see you guys. It really is You Oh man Yeah, I can't I still just being a television fanatic I cannot get over the fact that a show called riba. Yeah was called something else somebody came in went through the entire audition process Not a I had a meeting and decided okay. I'll do the show went through the entire audition process. She wasn't even courted Nope, just yeah, I didn't know that I got a screen test and then I have to screen test and then we're gonna name the show I'm dying to know what happened during that publicity. I know What was happening? What is someone do to riba that made her go? We are calling the show riba. Oh man, but you do it with an accent. We're calling the show riba. We're calling the show There you go. Nice nice Thank you all for joining us for this episode of pod meets world as always you can follow us on instagram pod meets world show You can send us your emails pod meets world show at gmail.com and we've got merch No tushy. No, merchy Pod meets world show a comm writer send us out. We love you all pod dismissed Pod meets world is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by danielle fischl wilfred l and writer strong executive producers jensen carp and amy sugarman executive in charge of production danielle romo producer and editor taris udbach producer maddie moore engineer and boy meets world super van easton allen our theme song is by kyle morten of typhoon Follow us on instagram at pod meets world show or email us at pod meets world show at gmail.com Feel that yep, it's winter fading away and the warmth of spring making its way back Welcome the new season with etsy and discover loads of fresh finds Like a pair of matching bucket heads for you and your mate's spontaneous spring holiday Or a pair of eye masks for the return flight home from the personalized to the practical We've got you covered with millions of active listings to choose from there's no better time to ring in spring Shop at etsy.com and discover your perfect find today Rural britain you've suffered too long your days of sluggish broadband are over We're connecting rural homes to full fiber with thousands more joining every month The gigaverse is expanding before my very eyes Gigaclear faster broadband for rural britain from only 19 pounds per month We have lived off season seas apply 18 month contract prices may rise during contract check availability at gigaclear.com This is an i heart podcast guaranteed human