827 The Grand Tour; Touring Today; Sagrada Família 2026

Will it ever be finished? They're getting close. The great central tower just went up at Gautiz Sagrada Familia Church in Barcelona. He knew that it would be the work of generations, that it was impossible to finish in a lifetime, and so far it has taken 144 years. Coming up, architect Mauricio Cortez tells us how it's a real point of pride for Catalonia. Cameron Hewitt reminds us that no matter how much our travels are enhanced by apps on our phone, we still want a human connection when we arrive. I see now that going to a B&B isn't just about sleeping in a bed, it's about the whole experience and the person who runs the place, right? And Bill Newman explains how the cultural travels a young aristocrat used to take can provide a great itinerary for finding the best of what Europe has to offer today. The most popular spots on the Grand Tour are still among the most popular spots in Europe today. Come along for the hour ahead, it's Travel with Rick Steves. The plan in Barcelona was to celebrate the completion of Gautiz's remarkable Sagrada Familia Church on the 100th anniversary of his death. Despite a century of setbacks, they're getting ready to dedicate the nearly finished building this June. The architect in charge of its huge central tower joins us in just a bit to celebrate. And my right hand associate here at Rick Steves Europe looks at how tech changes in recent years are helping us manage our travels today. You could trace the foundation of our modern tourism industry to an unlikely pair of influences. The pilgrimages of the Middle Ages that took religious devotees into exotic foreign lands and the Grand Tour itineraries that sent off young aristocrats to see the cultural treasures of Europe and become certified gentlemen. But as a middle class started to emerge in the 19th century, guidebooks appeared on the scene to help more people plan their adventures to other countries and cultures. The publisher of my own guidebooks at Hechet collects historic examples of the genre. Bill Nuland joins us now to look at the origins of today's tourism in a historic kind of gap you're travel known as the Grand Tour of Europe and to celebrate his recent retirement on what happens to be our 21st anniversary edition of Travel with Rick Steves. Bill, thanks for being here. My pleasure. So you collect guidebooks. Tell us how that happened and about your collection. Well, I began about 20 years ago and in the early days I was really trying to get a handle on how the guidebook format evolved. Now I have a better idea of that but I have over a thousand books. I'm planning to donate them to university in the UK at some point and it's, as you say, been a passion of mine. Now when I look at an old guidebook, for me, I'm hoping that it gives me a window on how people traveled long before I traveled. Does the guidebook enable you to do that? If you get a hundred year old copy of Betteker's, what can you learn by looking at it? You can learn a great deal. You can learn the way that people used transportation, whether it was the old carriage post roads or later in the mid-19th century railroads. You can learn how they packed people on the Grand Tour, which you mentioned earlier, would have a huge packing kit that they would bring with them and they'd bring clothing for every weather. So let's talk about this Grand Tour because you run across that when you travel in Europe. People refer to the Grand Tour and today we're in an age of mass tourism. Well, this certainly was not mass tourism back then but what was the Grand Tour and who was on it and where did they go? The Grand Tour emerged in the early 17th century between German and English young aristocrats, about 20 years old. They were sent on a trip of 12 to 24 months with a retinue. Their carriage would be shipped over to the continent and they have a tutor to guide them and the destination was Italy. Depending on whether they were starting from the UK or from Germany, they would go down through Germany or down through France. The destination was Italy. They would spend time in Florence, in Turin, in Naples and of course in Rome. And then on the way back up, everybody would spend time in Paris. That was definitely a key part of the Grand Tour. So you had to do the big cultural stops in Italy, Florence and Rome? They would spend two, three, four months in the cities and while they were there, they would take fencing lessons, they would take dancing lessons, they would be introduced to court, they would learn some of the language. So it was part of the upbringing of a noble man? Absolutely. And if you had done that, you would then have more impact, more power in your community. But you know, there was a backlash to this too. There were a lot of people who felt that the people who came back from France in particular, you know, were fops wearing high fashion and... Stick a feather in his cap and call it macaroni. Absolutely, yeah. So you know, there were people who felt that being a dunce abroad was not necessarily better than being a dunce at home. Okay, but let's say we're in this elite circle and you have your retinue. I mean, this is amazing to me. So you're in a rich family and your daddy wants you to get some culture. So you have a carriage? Yep. You have a driver? You might have a security person. You've got a tutor, right? Who is called a bear leader, yes. A bear leader. And when you come into a town, would they have reservations? Would there be a pattern that they would do each time or would they be winging it? Well, they would be winging it the first time, but they had the time and they had the means to do that. The first book that used the term grand tour was by Richard LaSalle's, an English Catholic who wrote in 1670. He had been on five trips to Europe at the time that he wrote the book and he detailed each of these five as a sort of a signpost for people would follow each with a different route. So this is kind of a journal that others would use as a guidebook? Yes. You know, the guidebook as we know it was a format that took another couple of hundred years to develop. In the mid-18th century is when that really began to lock in. There was a guy named Thomas Nugent who wrote a book called The Grand Tour. Nevertheless, LaSalle's... LaSalle's in people's shared notes. Absolutely. And then to do your sightseeing, if you want to see this piece of art, museums didn't have turnstiles and opening hours. Museums didn't exist. So they would go to people's palaces or galleries or... That is exactly right. And as a member of the aristocracy, you would have access to these places. In the late 18th century, seeing art became more of a desired aspect of the itinerary. This began to be increasingly something that guidebooks would include to the point where many guidebooks became essentially catalogs of art. It was one of the main things you saw. And the Beteker Star System emerged from a series of exclamation points that were used in some very early 18th century guides to indicate which pieces of art were particularly interesting, similar to the way you do in your guides. Bill Nuland has been my publisher for the Rick Steves Guidebooks to Europe for the past 25 years at Avalon Travel and the Hachette Book Group. He's shedding light on how the Grand Tour itineraries for European aristocrats developed into the tourism industry of today. Bill, I'd like to present a challenge that somebody would have on the road. And from your study of these guidebooks from the age, tell me how they dealt with this problem. Crossing borders. You did need papers and you also needed bank notes. And so they would go with letters of recommendation. One of the first things, they would cross in the border. They'd need to establish their bona fides in crossing the border. And then landing in a new city, you'd need to establish your means to pay. You're not necessarily traveling with a huge wad of cash. So how do you do that? There was no bank, modern banking? There was no travelers checks? Well, there were letters of recommendation from UK or German banks to local banks. Basically a bank letter of introduction. So you could withdraw money from a bank in Florence? Yes. Okay, let's talk about finding a hotel. Did they actually stay in hotels or did they move into mansions? They were some very good hotels. Typically they would stay in a hotel. As they were in transit, they would not necessarily overnight in hotels along the way. They had picnic packs to lay out cloth and silverware, although I say silverware. Remember that the fork was only used in Italy at that time. It was not really known in the UK. I've seen those packs in museums. I saw them in the British, the Victorian Albert Museum. And it was what aristocrats would pack with them. They certainly didn't know how to pack light. So if you were on the grand tour and your dad got you the carriage, the retinue, and a tutor, what would the highlight be for your trip? You're gone for a year. Well, if you're the young tourist himself, the highlights are probably your fencing classes and your Amorous Adventures. Amorous Adventures? Yes. Say more. Well, as I said, there's a lot of cynicism about young people who went on this trip. And it was part of their education, but that was education in the broadest sense. So these guys came home with sort of a road savvy. That was their take on it, yes. And they believed they had the road savvy. Maybe some souvenirs that they wish they could shake. Yes, quite so. Bill, did the grand tour in Europe become a little less expensive and a little less aristocratic in the 1800s, or did it sort of die out? Personally, I placed the break in the Seven Years' War. During the Seven Years' War, the continent was essentially closed off to British citizens and travelers. After the Seven Years' War, you had both middle-class lawyers, doctors who began to travel to Europe, often for their health. The idea of the warmer climes being good for health was widespread. And also people who had fought found that they'd like to be overseas and would stay. And there was a period right after the Seven Years' War when there was more and more British travel, and then it was interrupted again by the French Revolution and by Napoleon. But Napoleon also brought a lot to the logistics of travel. For example, he blasted roads through Switzerland in order to invade Italy, and people have been using those roads ever since. And after Waterloo, the British came rushing back, and there was a number... So we're talking 1815. And suddenly, Napoleon's no longer an issue, and people can travel again. And British publishers rushed to fill the gap. Marianna Stark emerged as one of the first professional travel writers. And then in 1836, John Murray established the first real great series, Murray's Handbooks, that covered none of the grand tour destinations, but also went west to Spain and Portugal, east to Greece and Turkey, and north to Scandinavia. And he began to fill in that series from that point on, but he had an overarching vision that coincided exactly with the rise of the Industrial Revolution and Queen Victoria and her reign. So with the rise of the Industrial Revolution, basically the middle of the 1800s, you have now not the mass tourism we have today, but being a tourist in Europe was an option, and you had a reasonable way to travel from A to B. You had consistent ways to cross borders. You had an ability to come into town and find a hotel and go to a restaurant, and you even have museums by this point. And most importantly, you also had a reason that people wanted to travel. It was definitely seen as a way of acquiring culture, and they were more focused on this than the grand tourists had been. The grand tourists were basically young dilettantes. Whereas the middle class tourists who followed were interested in acquiring culture, and people were looking to have some of that culture rub off on them. Last question, Bill. What survives of the grand tour today? A great deal, starting with the itinerary. The most popular spots on the grand tour are still among the most popular spots in Europe today. What would they be? We view again the highlights of this trip. You just got home after one year on the road with your retinue, and I'm your uncle. You got back in town. You've been to Hamburg, you've been to Berlin, you've been to Bonn, Rome, Florence, Turin, Naples, and then in France, Marseille, and primarily Paris. And also Amsterdam was a big stop. Bill Nuland, thanks so much for giving us a peek at the grand tour of Europe and what followed. My pleasure. We dive deeper with Bill Nuland into the historic development of tourism and guidebooks from Victorian-era trains and package tours to modern cruise lines. It's in a short extra from today's conversation at ricksteves.com. Meet one of the people helping to finish Gaudí's architectural masterpiece Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. That's right after we look at what's changed about how we travel. Like when you need to go online to plan your trip, and when you don't. 21 years of hosting this weekly radio show makes me want to look back at how much about how we travel has changed as we enter into the second quarter of the 21st century. Rising costs, overcrowding, and climate concerns are challenges that probably won't go away. But improved infrastructure, technological conveniences, and a growing affluence in many places that we visit also make it an exciting time to travel. 25 years ago, Cameron Hewitt contacted me from a small college town in central Ohio where he lived. I brought him on board to join my growing staff here in suburban Seattle as a writer and researcher. Cameron is now my content and editorial director at Rick Steves Europe. He's one of my most prolific writing partners and co-authors the Rick Steves guidebooks to Central Europe, Budapest, and Croatian Slovenia, among others. And like me, Cameron also spends about three months a year in Europe while living out of a regulation-sized carry-on suitcase. Cameron joins us in the Travel with Rick Steves studio right now to look at how we can use what has changed in recent years about how we travel to better plan for our next overseas vacation. Thanks for having me, Rick. And, you know, 25 years sort of feels like a long time. It sort of feels like a short time in some ways, but, man, some things have really significantly changed. Well, 25 years ago there was Deutschmarks and Drachma and Franks and Pesetas, and now all of those are gone, and we've got the Euro. That was back in 2002, one currency, what, for like 20 countries. Something like that. Bulgaria just added to the list earlier this year, so the Eurozone is growing, and yeah, that was a huge change a long time ago. And it also reflects a change just in money in general. I mean, you and I remember a time that we would have to go get physical travelers checks and then go find an office to change them. And then we were using our ATM to get cash out, and these days everything is contactless, and a lot of it's cashless. A lot of Europe, especially Northern Europe, people who haven't traveled in a while will find you might not be able to find someone to take your cash. I was just in Denmark for 10 days, I think, and as an experiment I thought, I'm just not going to take any cash out and see what happens. And sure enough, I was able to pay with a contactless credit card everywhere I went. And you're a big fan of that, and you embrace that, and I'm a little reluctant because I'm a little bit older than you, and I like hard cash in my head. And you told me, no, you go to Iceland, you change money, you're not going to have a good time spending it, because the credit card is what you do. I was just in Venice, just like you were just in London, and you tap in and you tap out with your credit card to get on the evaporato or the tube. That's a huge change with public transportation. A lot of cities are phasing this in. You don't have to go looking for a ticket machine. You don't even have to buy a ticket on your phone. You literally just tap your credit card or your phone or your smartwatch when you get on the tram or the bus, and you tap again when you get off. The fare is automatically deducted. Make sure when you're going to a place that you know how that system works and that locality, because some of them have it, some of them don't, but for a place that has that, I was in Edinburgh recently. And in our guidebook we said, you have to pay exact change when you buy your ticket when you get on the bus. And in the time since we'd last been there, they went all cashless, all contactless, and now you just hop on the bus, tap your credit card, and you're good. And speaking of hopping on things, in the old days you'd flag down a taxi, and now there's the whole Uber idea that is quite prevalent in Europe. They have their own companies, but Uber generally is how I think of it. And that's a good fallback now. The ride-hailing apps are revolutionary, and I've traveled a lot in Central and Eastern Europe, and there's often been a problem there with kind of rip-off cabbies, cabbies who would kind of wait for tourists and overcharge you when you get to your destination. And boy, it's so liberating to have Uber. It takes the stress out of you. I don't need to worry, is this guy going to rip me off because he has no control over it. Well, first of all, you don't have to go looking for a taxi or calling for a taxi. Second of all, they just come and get you and know where you're going, so there's no worry about language barrier. They know exactly where you're going. And third, you can pay automatically with your credit card. You don't have to get cash out. You don't have to hand over your credit card. It just gets deducted from your app. I used to think, oh, it's easy to get a taxi from the hotel, but if I'm way out in the boonies and I need a cab, you can be stranded. But now with an Uber app, you can actually have them come to get you in the little new wine garden up in the hills of Vienna, and they'll come up and pick you up. So that's a revolutionary change. Another big change is I remember back in the last century, I didn't book rooms in advance. I would just walk down the street and knock on doors and find stuff. The stakes are higher now. It's more expensive. You can spend a lot of needless money, but also it's just a different way to book rooms, isn't it? Yeah, and I think it's still possible if you're outside of peak season to try to do it as you go, and you could say technology's made that easier. You can look on an app and see who has room tonight. On the other hand, like you said, the stakes are higher, and the best places, the best value places, they book out way ahead. And so you can get by without reservations, but if you want to just be assured of having the best possible accommodations, you really need to get a head start on it. You know, crowds of tourists is a big deal, but it really needs to be factored into how we travel and get tickets. I think COVID had an impact on this. Right. You know, you hear a lot about over-tourism, and it's very true, especially for some really key popular destinations like Barcelona, or Venice, or Amsterdam are just jammed, and everyone has the same sights on their bucket list. And you know, you've been able to make reservations at major museums already for many years. That's just becoming easier and more seamless, but it's really critical. It's incumbent upon the traveler. If you're going to a very popular site like the Louvre in Paris, or the Alhambra Palace in Granada, check it out even weeks or, in some cases, months in advance. A good guidebook will tell you how far ahead you need to book, or whether you need to book at all. And then the other tip I would say is go online. All of these places have their own official booking app for booking tickets. You can check availability in book, and you're going to need a ticket on your phone. Very easy. There are also, though, a lot of copycat third-party companies, where if you search for, I need a ticket for the Alhambra, you might be sent to a third-party company that might charge you double or triple because they're reselling the tickets. So the other thing I think that travelers need to know is make sure you're going to the official originating ticket site so you're not paying extra fees. Now, Cameron, I always like to study before I'm going someplace, and I like to quit myself with a good guidebook. You're a generation behind me, and you are tuned into blogs and social influencers and so on. What value is there in all of the influencers and what pitfalls are there? Yeah, and so I'm sort of a classic Gen X, right? So I have one foot in sort of the old way of doing things and one foot in modern technology. And I would say I have a healthy suspicion and skepticism about social media influencers. First of all, I'll say a social media influencer. It's a good name for them because they have influence. It doesn't necessarily mean they have expertise. It's people who have acquired a big following sometimes for good reason and sometimes not for good reason. Now, would these be the bloggers that you read because you're a foodie and you really read up on these bloggers before you go to Paris? Yeah, bloggers are often there on Instagram or Tech Talk or social media, you know, Twitter X. But yeah, I would say I've really found that if you do your homework, you can find just like any other information source. If you find an influencer that has a style that's compatible with yours and especially if it's somebody who has a real command and expertise of the area you're going to, they can be an excellent source. I'll give you a couple examples. In Prague, there's a couple of guys, their channel is called Honest Guide, and it's these two Czech guys and they just make these videos that are kind of sort of the tourist advocate in Prague and kind of helping people steer clear some of the tourist traps and think also more thoughtfully, more from a Czech perspective on these sites. And they're also kind of fun to watch. And then another person that I think you and I both know really well is in Rome. Katie Parla does such a great job. And a lot of them are expats. Matt Barrett in Athens. Matt Barrett in Athens is a good example. There's Greece very well. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with Cameron Hewitt. Cameron has been working with me for 25 years. He's written a wonderful book called The Temporary European with his take on Europe and how things are changing and how to get the most out of your travels. Cameron is the content director here at Rick Steves Europe. And he's the co-author of about six different books. And he's helped me with countless books. If you want to read more of Cameron's experiences, look up Cameron Hewitt on Facebook or Instagram. One of my favorite things in the old days was to come into a town in England, leave the train station, ask where are the bed and breakfast, and then you'll go two blocks and turn left. And then you see a long line of signs that say bed and breakfast, bed and breakfast, bed and... And I would just check every one of them out and write up my favorite two or three. It doesn't work that way now. And people go short-term rentals. It's good, but I miss the old way. How do you enjoy short-term rentals? Yeah, it's a complicated topic. We're talking, of course, about Airbnb and VRBO. And now you can rent these apartments on other sites like Booking.com. And that's been a big change in accommodations the last, I'd say, 10 years or so. I think there's pros and cons. I think the pro, sort of as a traveler's advocate, is it can be very cost-effective, especially if you're a family that needs a lot of space. It can put you in a local neighborhood. Of course, there are some very valid kind of ethical concerns, which is that a lot of traditional homes are being turned into these short-term rentals to turn a profit. And it's pricing younger people out of... and locals in general, out of certain neighborhoods, so places that are losing their local care. It's kind of tragic. I've got friends whose generations this has been their little neighborhood, and they never bought an apartment, they just paid rent, and now they can actually no longer afford their rent. Because their whole building is Airbnb. And when they're all pushed out to the concrete suburbs, all of the charm goes with it, because now you've got shops catering not to locals, but to tourists. And one thing you and I have noticed when it comes to reserving and recommending hotels, a sad trend lately is people just don't want to be there day in and day out for the grind of running a cute little charming guesthouse. So they outsource it, or even worse, they just turn it into an automated thing, and you don't even meet a human being. You just pay for it online, you've got a lockbox for your key, and you just kind of clean up and say goodbye. This has been a really big change over the last 10 years. I'd say it started with the rise of these short-term rentals, where people got used to that system. You go to a lockbox or punch in a code to get in, there's no breakfast, there's no personal contact. And then I would say during COVID it really accelerated, because people didn't want human contact. People who were traveling in the waiting days of COVID. It could be a good value, regardless, but if that's a value from a very mechanical, here's a bed and here's a safe place to leave your bag, but you don't meet anybody. Yeah, and the consequence too is, like you and I have talked about for our guidebook work, it makes it really hard, because it used to be you would show up at a B&B and knock at the door or ring the doorbell, and there's usually somebody home to greet guests, but then we could kind of get inside and do our inspection. And now it's, you know, I'll go through some of our guidebook listings and I'll ring 10 doorbells and six people won't be home, and so it makes it harder for us to get inside and check it out, and then you think of the traveler's experience. You know, if part of the experience of your accommodations is having a local host who adds some sort of local flavor and also advice and guidance, and now you're in a situation where you don't get that at all, you're just getting a key to a door. Can you find that if you read between the lines and book a place that has a lady, a retired woman, who's now living alone and she's earning a little extra money, and she enjoys the company coming in? If you check reviews carefully, yeah, you can sometimes read between the lines. You read the reviews, I suppose, that's the thing. And Cameron, one other thing that really frustrates me from a guidebook hotel research point of view is dynamic pricing. How do you handle dynamic pricing? So it's hotels, it's also now everything. Museums, Rick, just in the last year, there are now museums that charge different on different days. The National Trust sites in England, for example, I walked into one of them just last summer working on a guidebook, and I said, what's the price? She said, it depends on what day it is. Well, that was the greediness of Madame Tussaud's wax museum. Ten years ago, I thought, is this even legal that you can charge more at peak time, but they're doing that? Yeah, I mean, everyone's not got access to technology, and there's algorithms that tell them if you charge five pounds more for an accommodation or whatever it is, you can charge 20 pounds more on this day, and you'll get it because they know that it's a short supply or a very high demand time. It does make it harder, though, because, you know, when we're assessing places for a guidebook, we want to kind of consider relative value. Well, if you can't get an actual price for a room, depending on when they're there, it's harder to make those assessments. We're looking at how to harness online technology to give us more control and options in our travel plans. Cameron is the co-author on many of the Rick Steves guidebooks, and he's also written the Temporary European Lessons and Confessions of a Professional Traveler. Cameron's blog posts offer more tips for enjoying travel to Europe this year. We link to it from this week's show at ricksteves.com. Cameron, you know, there's the question everybody will ask. Anybody who does this for a living is, okay, AI. How do you, of course, AI can be deceptive and, you know, a problem and plagiarism and all that issue, but just from a traveler on the road who's wondering what the heck is the best train ride to Paris from here, it can be very helpful. How do you find AI can be helpful? Yeah, I've been really digging into this the last few months and really trying to use it for my own trips. I would say, like a lot of these things we've talked about, AI has its place, and if you know what it's good at and you take advantage of what it's good at, it can be very helpful. But I think the problem with AI is it's sort of programmed to reassure you that it has all of the answers even when it doesn't. And so this is a big problem that I've encountered personally and I've read a lot of other experiences where AI will be equally confident giving you an answer regardless of how factual the answer actually is. You've got to be careful with that. It wants to make you happy. But I just remind myself it's no better or worse than all the information on the internet anyways. That's its universe. So there's crappy information and there's great information and it's all going to be chewed up and swallowed and given back to you according to the question you ask. We've been talking about the last quarter century. Let's talk about right now. Just to wrap things up in a minute or so, what are the big anxieties bothering people and what's your take on them? Yeah, I would say there's two things that are on people's minds this year. One is very specific, the other is a little broader. The specific one is you might be hearing about visa waiver programs that have come in Europe recently. There's one in the UK that's already in place. There's one in Europe that they're expecting to come into place late in 2026, maybe early 2027. You might hear news about this. It sounds worrisome. It's pretty simple. You just have to go online and pre-register before you go to Europe. Pay a small fee with your credit card and you'll be legal. So just keep an eye on the news for that. I did that for Britain because we have to do that and it was really easy. It's easy. People, a lot of news coverage makes it sound really... It cost 20 bucks and it took 10 minutes. It's quick. It's quick and easy. But be aware that these requirements are starting to come in. The other thing is a more kind of big picture thing, especially for Americans traveling in Europe this year. We have a president who's kind of put us on the outs with a lot of the rest of the world. And one concern I hear a lot from travelers is are Americans still welcome in Europe? And I would say sort of the short version is by and large a lot of Europeans have reasonable concerns about Trump. But as you and I have learned over many years, Europeans do a great job of distinguishing between country's leadership and its citizens. And I think you and I have traveled during other kind of tricky times. And what we always find is Americans are always welcome. And Europeans have this beautiful ability to kind of treat us as individuals. And they might have more questions. They might be confused. They might be concerned. But I've already traveled through the first year of the Trump administration in many countries and I've never felt treated badly or like I've been getting the cold shoulder. Yeah. We took 30,000 people on our tours this year. We have 200 European guides and we're very tuned into that. And we've had no reports that people are treating individuals poorly. If you want to wear an angry, mean-spirited red hat and make the case that America should be first, well then you're going to have some choppy waters. But if you just don't talk politics or if you believe in bridges rather than walls, you'll have all sorts of friends in Europe. Another issue that is a little anxiety-causing is the anti-tourism feeling. People are feeling like there's overtourism. And because there's so many people in Barcelona, so many people in Amsterdam, there's a feeling among locals that we're being invaded and they're actually demonstrating against tourists. And I would be concerned about that if I didn't know better. But I'll tell you, the movement among these people is anti-bad tourism. What's bad tourism? 3,000 people coming off of cruise ship, congesting the streets, buying a few trinkets and going back to the ship for dinner and to spend the night. If you are paying for to enjoy high-culture sites, paying for admissions, eating dinner, staying in a hotel, respecting the culture, I would say it's fair to say you are welcome and you are appreciated and you are good tourism, not bad tourism. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I agree totally. And I think people are seeing a lot of, again, attention-grabbing headlines about anti-tourism protests. And I want to be really clear. It's not anti-tourists, it's anti-over-tourism. They're not targeted at individual tourists. These protests are targeted at local authorities. They want their authorities to create policies and regulations that help put a cap on some of the more troubling aspects of having too many people. For example, a lot of cities, we just talked earlier about short-term rentals like Airbnb, a lot of these protests are encouraging local authorities to have more strict requirements to limit the number of Airbnb to prevent neighborhoods from losing their local character. So if you really understand what the protests are about, they are not angry at tourists, they're angry at their authorities for not dealing with it in a way that they really just want a sustainable version of tourism because they know that tourism is a huge part of their economy. But it needs to be properly managed and that's what those protests are about. Cameron Hewitt, thank you so much for all the hard work you do and for joining us today to share the latest in European travel. Thank you so much for having me, Rick, and for everybody, have very happy travels in 2026. Cameron Hewitt documents his travel discoveries from Iceland to Romania in his book The Temporary European and on his website, CameronHewitt.com. In 1926, Antony Gaudí was one of the most famous architects in the world. He was known for his revolutionary modernista style that introduced elements of nature and Catalan culture into the patterns of the buildings and works that he designed. It was the 10th of June when Gaudí leaned back while crossing the street to admire the progress on his masterwork, a church he called Sagrada Familia. What he didn't see was a passing tram that struck and killed him. On the centenary of Gaudí's death, Pope Leo is scheduled to dedicate the massive central tower that was finally erected just a few weeks ago as a centerpiece of the church and a beacon over Barcelona. The architect in charge of that tower tells us about it next on Travel with Rick Steves. It's a big year in Barcelona as they prepare to mark the centenary of the death of its most famous visionary architect, Antony Gaudí. Under construction since 1882, the remarkable Sagrada Familia Church has survived two world wars, a civil war, and the lean years of Franco's fascistic rule. Its distinctive towers are now capped by its massive central tower, a tower that was finally erected in late February and will be consecrated on June 10th. For the last 20 years, the architect in charge of the central tower of Jesus Christ has been Mauricio Cortez. Mauricio joins us from Barcelona now on Travel with Rick Steves to help us mark this milestone. Mauricio, thanks so much for joining us. Hello Rick and hello to your audience. Thanks for inviting me. You know, I have long thought if there's one building on this planet that I would like to see finished, it is the Sagrada Familia Church in Barcelona. For many years it felt like it was going so slowly and I wondered if I would even live to see the day. It seemed so far off, but progress has been fast and now the finish line is coming into view. Now this year, 2026, is the 100th anniversary of the great architect's death. And what's happening this year in Barcelona with the Sagrada Familia? Can you give us an overview of the events? Yeah, there are several events. It all started last November 2025 with the celebration of the 100 years of the first tower, the one that Gaudí saw finished without scaffolding. So we celebrated this 100th anniversary of the tower. Then the most important event is the celebration with a solemn mass of the 100th anniversary of Gaudí's death and also the benediction of the tower of Jesus presided by the Pope Leo himself, like you said. Now, 144 years, a lot of people say construction projects take a long time, but this is very unique in the world today that a building would take more than one century to build. How has that been? I mean, it has been an amazing story through wars and through dictatorships and through ups and downs economically. How on earth did you keep the project going with the vision of the original architect for so many generations? Gaudí's first commission was to build a more modest temple. And also we have to explain the name expiatory church. The idea is that a church built only by donations, not public funding or anything. And that's one of the reasons that it's taking so long. And the other is the sheer scale of the project. When he in 1881 received a big donation, he proposed to the board a huge extension of the project from the original two towers to 18 towers overall. So at that moment he knew that it would be the work of generations that it was impossible to finish in a lifetime. And like you said, so far it has taken 144 years. And you're a young man and there must have been several generations of architects before you. Is there a line of architects from you back to António Gaudí? Seventh architect directors as far as I remember. After Gaudí's death, his immediate colleagues taking charge, but then his disciples, the students that used to visit him, that he taught and explained his ideas. Thanks to that, the project was possible to continue. Because as you say, all this hardship with the war, the fire that destroyed Gaudí's studio, it would have been impossible without this transmission of knowledge. And you know, for years I've been thinking, wow, it's expensive to visit this church as a tourist. But I can remind myself that every time I pay for the admission, I'm helping build the church. Is that right? Yeah, every entrance fee is considered a donation. And it's what makes possible continuation of the works. You know, the problem with multi-generational, I think, is you have multi-egos and multi-creative spirits. It's like if you whisper into one person's ear and he whispers it to the next ear and he whispers to the next ear. What you said in the beginning might not be what you hear at the very end. How have you honored Gaudí's original vision? And how have you taken liberties to build upon it with your own personality, architecturally? One collateral damage, say, that Gaudí didn't have all the funding that he would have wanted to build faster, is that he had a lot of time to study the project and develop plaster models that luckily survived the fire. So, 40 years of work and at least three different versions, models of the nave, a very big scale. And then he geometrized everything. He created a new architecture with very fixed rules of how to work with curved surfaces, but nonetheless a strict geometry. And that allowed the successors to continue the project. And you can see all of this thinking and this architectural brilliance in the exhibit at the church when you go to the church now. You can see the workshop in action, you can see the models, you can see the innovations. Exactly. The museum is very interesting. It's on the underground of the nave and you can see the reconstruction of the models, past and present combined, and also an exhibition about the geometry, an exhibition about Gaudí's history of nature and how he reinterpreted nature. I love the way nature works in with his vision. This is Travel with Rick Steves and we're speaking with architect Mauricio Cortez. He spent the last 20 years working on the Sagrada Familia church in Barcelona and he's overseen the completion of the central tower known as the Tower of Jesus Christ. This June the Basilica will dedicate the tower as part of the centennial observances of its founding architect, Anthony Gaudí. His modernism style incorporates elements of Catalan culture and it's a point of great pride for the people of Barcelona. There's updated information about Sagrada Familia and this year's Gaudí centennial celebrations at sagradafamilia2026.org. Mauricio, you mentioned the scale of the church and I understand that now that the tower is completed, it's 172 meters tall. I did a little calculation and that's 188 yards what Americans would relate to. In other words, nearly two football fields on the end, tall. That's just mind-boggling. Can you explain to us the feelings you had when the cross was finally put on top of that already very tall tower and then what is the general organization of the many spires because there's a lot of symbolism in the 18 spires. First of all, let's talk about capping it with that great cross. What was that like just recently? Well, one of the most exciting moments, following the 2021 that we crowned the Mary Tower, now we are at the highest point at 172 meters, like you say, with a three-dimensional cross. Gaudí used to crown his buildings with four lateral arms so you can see a cross from every direction in white ceramics. So it's a shiny new object in the skyline of the city, in fact, the highest. You can see it out at sea, can't you? And it's going to be lit like a lighthouse almost. Yeah, exactly. When Gaudí described the Sagrada Familia, there was no airplane travel, of course, but he imagined the Sagrada Familia saying that, look, this is the first thing that visitors will see from the ships when arriving at Barcelona. Yes, like pilgrims when they would see the spire of a Gothic church breaking the horizon after walking for months. Imagine that. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's so beautiful. Maricio, it just occurred to me when we think of the collection of towers. It's like the human towers that are so popular, famous in Catalan, when you build a tower of people that are like four people tall standing on their shoulders, higher and higher. Have you ever thought about how the Jesus Christ tower in the middle is sort of standing on the shoulders of architecturally of everything else, like the human towers that are so unique to Catalan? Well, I have. In fact, this past November for the celebration of the Sambarraves Tower, they built a human castle inside the nave to celebrate. Perfect. Yeah. So it's called a human castle. Exactly. So now the tallest person on that human castle, architecturally, the tower of Jesus Christ is there. What is the big, just briefly, how are the 18 towers incorporated in each other with some sort of symbolic theological message? It's important because Gaudí thought of the whole array of towers as growing towards the center. So there are three facades, east, west and south, with four towers each, and that constitutes the 12 disciples of Christ. Then the plan is a Latin cross. So in the center of this cross, the crossing, is the place of Jesus surrounded by the four evangelists. And in the north side above the altar, there's the Mary Tower. So each tower supports the next one and forms like a big, huge pyramid. Wow. It's just, it makes sense. And when you walk inside to this church, you see the organic nature of it all. And when we think about this architecture, in every language there's a word for, we call it Art Duvo, the Germans would call it Jugensstil. And in Catalan, which we have to remember has its own language, even though it's part of Spain, right? Yes. It's not in Catalonia. It's modernisma. It's modernisma, right? To me, it's a beautiful sort of nubile, wispy, flowery, organic flavor of architecture. How do you describe modernisma? Modernisma has also its cultural context and economical. Like a renaissance, it's called the Catalan renaissance, where industry supported the arts, literature, music, architecture, and also revalorization of the arts and crafts as well. The trades, the ceramics, the blacksmiths, the glass makers, creating these organic shapes, plants, motives and so on. Then Gaudí goes beyond that because he studies nature and then also uses a teacher to learn about the structures of nature and get more than only the aesthetic representation, but like he wanted to get a deeper understanding of nature. So the architect can actually learn from nature how to build a building in the human realm. I mean, you look at the columns and they're like bamboo shanks or whatever we call that, and then they splay out at the top like branches. I just think you step inside, it hits you like you're stepping into something very organic. It's like a forest. It's a forest. That's the exact word. Then it's lit with incredible stained glass and it is art nouveau stained glass. Yeah, exactly. One consequence of this structural forest interior is that it's so efficient, a structure that it doesn't need a botrises, so there's more light that can go in. And then you ornament that with this wonderful, I think you call it arts and crafts sensibility with the broken ceramics and the mosaics. And that's unique to Maudenisme, I think, the Catalan style of art nouveau. Yeah, the trinca, this is a very peculiar technique with broken fragments of ceramics or glass that you can see at Sagrada Familia and Park Well and other Gaudi buildings. And Gaudi has this special sensibility to materials. We have to remember that he was the son of Smith's. So he also was very familiar with the ironworks and I invite everybody who visits Gaudi's that look at every detail, every handrail, every even piece of furniture in the houses. Everything is to be touch and it's organic. There's so many dimensions of his artistic genius, the theology, the heritage of a blacksmith, the beautiful organic nature of it all. Is there a phrase that he would have that would sort of show about his fundamental belief? Well, the one that he used to say a lot in Catalan, say original is turnal origin. Being original is return to the origin in the senses. It's not inventing new ideas out of nowhere, but going back to the roots. So the the answers are already there if we observe and we look around and we get close to nature and close to creation in our observant. Yeah, there's a very famous quote by Gaudi said that the tree outside my studio is my master. That is beautiful. The head architect for Sagrada Familia's just completed central tower, Mauricio Cortez, is our guest from Barcelona right now on travel with Rick Steves. The new tower is said to make Sagrada Familia the tallest church in the world. Its dedication ceremonies are scheduled for June 10th on this intener area of the death of its founding architect, Antoni Gaudi. You can find web links to these events in the notes for this week's show at ricksteves.com. Mauricio, when will the church actually be finished? I mean, you're going to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Gaudi's death and the finishing of the tallest tower coming up in June with a visit by the Pope. And then after that, when do you expect the church will actually be done? The biggest challenge yet to tackle is the construction of the glory facade, which people don't believe, but it's going to be the main facade. Gaudi started by one of the lateral facades, the Nativity. So we don't venture a finished date because we attempted to do so before the COVID pandemic. We were aiming for 2026 to finish also the glory facade and that proved to be impossible. So at least it's going to take 10 years more, but we don't venture as specific. So for all of our lifetimes, I guess we've been going in the side door thinking it was the front door. Exactly. They are the lateral and they are oriented towards the stone. So that's a grand entry and you look at that and your jaw drops, but that's just the warm-up act for the glory facade, which is yet to be built. And there is a big model of it or a mural of it inside the church so you can imagine how it will look. But you're conservative in making an estimate of when that will be done, but the church has been consecrated and having masses for many years now. Yes, yes. In fact, the crypt eats more than 100 years old having regular masses. And then now since the consecration of the main nave also, the nave on special locations is used. Now Mauricio, the name of the church, Sagrada Familia, it means Holy Family. Tell us a little bit about how theology weaves into the architecture and the sculpture of this church. In Gaudí's work, you cannot separate the symbology from the architectural shape, even from geometry. And he was a devout Catholic, by the way. He was a very religious person and everything has a symbology. The number of towers, as we talked, the number of doors in each facade, each column has its own dedication. Each stained glass, so everything is symbolic. And he called it the Bible in stone. So I've got to say, just as a tour guide, when you go there, you can dedicate easily the better part of the day to getting into all of the fascinating meaningfulness of what you're looking at. And also, just to wander around with your neck craned open and your eyes to the skies, realizing you're walking through an architectural forest. That's not an accident, but an inspired work of art. How do you feel the presence of Antoni Gaudí as you're doing your work? Well, his vision transpires in every stone that he put. But also, every day we work thinking, will Gaudí be proud of what we're doing? And not only Gaudí, are we honoring the legacy of all these past generations that have spent their lives working in this church? And their lives working, contributing to the project or donating or whatever contribution they did? It's a legacy and it's a responsibility. There are many architects in the team. I'm not the only one, obviously, but everybody feels the same weight of this legacy. Wow. Mauricio Cortez, it has been an honor to talk to you. I'm going to be staying in touch with what's happening in this exciting year. There's an exhibit that basically will celebrate the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, 144 years of shared journey. And that is basically May, June, and July of this year. Of course, Pope Leo will be coming in June for the dedication. And you can go and visit the Sagrada Familia whenever you go to Barcelona. It's far and away the most rewarding visit of any of the famous architecture by Gaudí. Mauricio Cortez, thank you so much for joining us. If you could sum up what the Sagrada Familia Church means to the people of Catalan today, how would you do that? Very briefly, when a Catalan person looks at this great church, what do they think? Well, Sagrada Familia is a symbol not only of the city, but of the whole Cataluña. And it's a source of pride and multi-generational effort. So it's a landmark of the skyline, but also a source of identity of the people. Mauricio Cortez, best wishes with your work, and congratulations on putting that cross on top of the tallest spire on any church in the entire world. Thank you for the invitation, Rick. Travel with Rick Steves is produced by Tim Tatten, Kaz Muralhal and Donna Bardsley, Ed Rick Steves, Europe and Edmunds, Washington. Affiliate relations are by Sheila Gursoff. Our theme music is by Jerry Frank. You'll find more about our guests at ricksteves.com. We'll see you next week with more Travel with Rick Steves. We're live every week, starting at 6 p.m. Pacific Time, 9 p.m. Eastern. Register at ricksteves.com and BYOB.