Ep 82: F*cking Porn Stars! Our AVN Awards Show Vegas Recap

find us at VanillaSwingers.com and you'll find Kat's OnlyFans page there too you wish hey Kat yeah Leo I'm going to record one of those silly disclaimers that you put at the beginning of the podcast like a parental advisory sticker let's go because this is going to be explicit it. Oh yeah, we're going to talk about lots of sex. Lots of bad language. We might even have sex while on the podcast. We might have listening to the noise of our lovemaking. There might be nudity. But you can't see it on the podcast. It doesn't matter. You can hear it. You can hear the nudity. We might corrupt you if you're under the age of 18. That's a disclaimer. Don't listen. We're not professional. What else? We're not professionals. We know nothing. Absolutely nothing. And if you want to try to sue us, well, we don't have any money either. Because this is bite-sized and commercial free. We're not trying to make any money. It's fun. Fun. Fun. So if you like it, And tune in and listen. Yeah. Word. We aren't the champions, my friends. We'll keep on fighting till the end. Ba-ba-ba-ba. We're just the losers. Because we aren't the champions of the porn Oscars. So we just got back from the AVN Awards in Vegas. Bow-chicka-bow-bow. It's Leo. Run her up. It's Kitty Cat. Number one in her own mind. You're number one in my mind. Yay. So we're back from the AVNs. What an amazing weekend we had in Vegas. Yeah, we had a blast. But what are we going to talk about first? I mean, we've got a lot to unpack here. We do, because it wasn't quite exactly how we thought it was going to pan out. We never really know what to expect with anything. And the weekend was full of unexpected surprises, wouldn't you say? Yeah, it was. It was a really enlightening time for us. We had a lot of soul searching, a lot of talking about what it is we want, where we're going, what we're doing. We're going to just jump around all over the place here. But it's all going to be about our AVN weekend in Vegas. Yeah, it was kind of magical. We're not going to teach a damn thing. We're just going to tell you where we're at in our journey. We don't have any advice for you. So just if that's what you're wanting, go ahead and just switch to another podcast right now. So the first thing about it is, is this was just a crazy one off. It's one of those things where in your lifestyle journey, hopefully you look back and you think, I did all these crazy ass things that I would have never done if it weren't for the lifestyle. If you hadn't joined the lifestyle, right. It could be you only go to one naughty in New Orleans ever or one bliss cruise ever, but you'll always look back on it as, God, what a moment that was. But this is something that we would have never done were it not for the podcast. No, I barely had heard of the avians. I knew that there were the Oscars of porn. I have seen snippets of it before, but it wasn't something I thought, A, I'd ever go to, and B, I'd actually be up for an nomination. So you crazy-ass misfits are the ones who did this. Right, it's a total, it's a fan award vote. I thought it would be ha-ha funny to try to get us to go up on stage with bags over our heads. And we were prepared, okay? We were actually prepared just in case the unthinkable happened. So the TLDR is we did not win, but apparently we came in second. But it wasn't even close. We weren't anywhere near. We knew we were up against really stiff competition because this is an adult podcast category. There were probably only two or three lifestyle podcasts even in it. We're talking sex podcasts and not even lifestyle related. But we were up against pillow talk. We were like one of those third party presidential candidates that's really entertaining to watch, but he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of actually bringing it home. It's funny you said snowball. I did a snowball for the first time this weekend. Oh, yeah. That was just part of our moment. And it wasn't with a porn star because we learned something very interesting. Oh, yeah, that was interesting. Porn stars are asexual. Especially when they're working an event like that. Because really, that's the way you'd phrase it. They're working an event like that. Because it's like a full four-day expo, like a Comic-Con for porn stars. And they're groupies. They're signing autographs. They're taking fan selfies. They're working it. And they are asexual. Talking with one of the AVN insiders at the after party, apparently we came up with 39,000 plus votes. I'm pretty excited. You guys are amazing. And we thank you, every last one of you that voted once, twice, however many times. We can't thank you guys enough. Instead of bringing bags to put over our heads in case the unthinkable happened. We brought our caricature masks. You know, the caricatures that we have on the website, on all of our social media. We actually have the masks. We put them on our blow-up dolls on all the events. And we took a bunch of pictures on the red carpet, in front of the giant AVN billboards, wearing our masks. Right. So we've got these amazing photos. So they're going to make a hell of a memory. And we feel like we won just being there. It was really, really amazing to be a part of that energy. Well, the fun thing is, is when you don't expect to win, you have only one way to go. We did it. We start from the bottom and you try to work your way up. We got to tell everybody, yeah, we're up for a nomination. And they'd all ask, oh, we're rooting for you. We're rooting for you. And it was just an exciting moment. Well, Kat was saying how nervous she was going over there. The drive over when it was the red carpet time. It was go time. I was freaking out. I've never been so nervous in my life. You said it's the most nervous you've been since we went to Le Chandel in Paris, where they do the rude Frenchman who's the vetted doorman. And he says, not tonight. Yeah, he's worse than Julian. We figured we're going to show up to the AVNs and they're going to say, not tonight. Nice try, guys. Nice try, swingers. Speaking of, we were there watching the red carpet and being part of all the pre-award froth. And we were there with our really good friends, Vegas dress-up couple. And true to form, they're always like the best dress couple wherever they go. They match at all times. No matter a meet and greet or an event or a bar, they're going to match. When they're standing next to us, we're going to be able to cosplay our best porn star impression. Let's see if people will mistake us for porn stars. Because we were going to dress our best to look like porn stars. We're like, we are going to look the part. And I think we did pretty good. But having them as a little foursome action going on. Well, if we did look like porn stars. Well, he outed us twice. Apparently, we looked like swingers. Apparently, his outfit was so over the top. It was what? A leopard print? It was a leopard print suit. And his shoes lit up. LED shoes. And on two separate occasions, just roaming around that virgin casino, somebody tapped him on the shoulder and pointed at us all and said, you guys are swingers. I was like, man, you're outing us here. I said, I'm a porn star. Stop it. I'm going to be porn stars. You guys are two dress up couple. It's interesting though that you said, as we're joking about them throwing us out of there for being swingers, that really was the takeaway for the weekend. Because porn stars are not lifestyle people. No. Now I had a porn boy. Yes. And he was very unique because not only was he a porn star, but he was very clear that I'm also E&M. Like he likes traveling in this E&M lifestyle world. And he was actually, remember he said he was a manicorn at one point. He was like an ongoing third for a couple. A manicorn. You don't say it, Kat. I know, I know. I guess we'll get to that later in the episode. I'm going to find me a manicure. The biggest takeaway for us was that porn stars are not our people. Lifestylers are our people. You guys listening right now, we love you guys. I would so much have rather have been in some kind of award show with however many thousand people were there with all of you guys. That would have been so much more fun. This felt a lot more like you're out there doing it for the gram. Everything is trying to network, collab, and really just hustling to get that bag. And Leo and I are like, we're the only couple here that don't want our faces shown. And we're the only people here not doing it for money. We're just doing it for the love of the game. Like, take for example, one of our biggest crossroads that we reached this weekend is when we went to go pick up our badge for the red carpet, we started asking them, how does this work exactly? When you go on the red carpet. How does the red carpet work? Like, are there professional photographers? Does everybody have rights to the photo? How do I get the photos? And the further we got down the road of talking with them, we realized basically the setup is you start on this red carpet and it's like 300 feet long. It goes from one end of the casino to the other. Yeah, the entire casino because that's part of the allure for all these porn stars. It's your special day. You know, you want to feel like... They want to make everyone of the nominees feel like a winner for that little bit of time. I came up with the analogy. It's like one of those pageants, you know, like pageant moms where they have those little kids. They probably do red carpets for those pageants. They had a cheerleader convention going on at the same time as the AVNs. So we would see these little kids, these little girls kind of walking around with their bows on and it made us think they could like walk a red carpet. It makes them feel special, right? And I think that's one of the reasons they make the red carpet snake from one end of the casino to the other. So we didn't know whether we should do it or not. But it became clear that once you get on the red carpet, there's fans on either side, people just taking pictures of you. And I think Leo and I thought, A, if we go without masks, no one will know who we are. So maybe we don't stand out as much. Even if they take a photo of us, they won't attach it to anything. Who cares? Because if we put our masks on, everyone's going to take a photo because that's really unusual. But when you get to the end of the red carpet is a small room where they have the professional photogs. and they're snapping pictures of you. And they actually put them up on stock photography websites. With your name. And they tag it with your name. And we thought, oh my God, we're going to forever be, yeah, we can have our masks on, but it's Kat and Leo. We're going to forever be on a Getty Images site. And I'll tell you what it felt like. It felt like an ego trap. We thought, should we do it? It's a trap. Turn back now. What are we doing it for? Up till this point, we've been so careful. Circumspect. To keep this separate from our vanilla lives. And we thought, is this our out moment? And it was funny because we were thinking about it. We talked to them at 10 in the morning. They're like, well, we're not really open till 11 for you to pick up the badge. So we had an hour to sit and think, do we do it? Do we not do it? And we had to do some soul searching. And finally, we came to the decision. We're not going to do it. We're not going to do that. We're going to go ahead. We're going to get some red carpet photos. Because we're going to sneak on the red carpet because it's so long. And they have little egresses where people can cross the red carpet. And we're going to Vegas dress up couple ready to take some pictures of us. And then we're going to jump back off the red carpet. Yeah. So instead of indulging, we're actually going to refrain from doing so. And I know in my heart of hearts, it was definitely the right decision. It felt like we're being really stupid by doing this. I know we're getting caught up in all the. And what are we here for? We knew going into it that, you know, there's a glimmer of hope. Of course, you want to feel like there's a glimmer of hope that you could win. But we knew the competition was fierce. Pillow Talk had won the year before. Well, he was gunning to win it back to back. He does it. It's a matter of pride. Not only does he do like a YouTube channel and he has vids with porn stars. His Insta is filled with him doing promos for AVN. We're like, there is no way we got not a snowball chance in hell of winning. You want to know something funny about Ryan Poundell? Go to his Insta. go to his profile picture up there. It's of the lips. Right click on his profile photo and then paste it in Photoshop. And you'll see there's like an Easter egg on his logo. Because the photo, you know, Insta, all your profile pictures are circles and it's actually a square photo that's in that. And what's cut off in the corners is interesting. Well, I'll tell you what it is, is because Insta, if you want to be verified, your profile photo has to have your face on it. And he didn't want to put his face on it. So what he did is he took this square photo and he put his face in all four corners. And it's so funny. And it's so funny because it's a candid photo. It's like he just woke up. And you're like, you're gerrymandering just like we are. Well, he's a hustler. I got to go ahead and respect his hustle. But he's up there and he's hiding the photos in the corner because on Instagram, the profile photo is seen as round. So you can't see the four corners and we don't verify us for that very reason. We thought the same thing. It wasn't. We got to put out there. Do you want to go ahead and get verified with a little blue check? And there's too many lifestyle podcasters out there that part of their journey is their out moment. And we're like, I don't want to have an out moment. We're two years in. And I feel like we can go far down this road, but there's no question there's been crossroads during this lifestyle journey where we've had to stop and say, we're not going to go down that road. And a lot of it has to be with kind of keeping some of this at arm's length. Like you said, at the AVN awards, the comedy, the pure hysterical comedy of it is we're one of the only people there who's trying to actively hide our faces. Everybody else is out there saying, look at me, look at me. We don't walk around the casino with masks on. We are just a normal couple. I am trying to look my damn best to be a porn star, but I'm not on the red carpet. You look like a porn star. Oh, you're so sweet. I look like a fluffer. You look like a 70s porn star. In fact, we just did our Hustler interview and we got that back. Oh my God. And in it, he said, you're a handsome bastard. I think that says it perfectly. Thanks, mom. First of all, we've never had an about us on the website. We don't know what to say. It's been two years going. I think we just always felt like- Listen to us. That's us. I don't want to talk about ourselves and I don't even know what I'd say anyway. And so we just never made an about us page. And when he sent the article, It was like our moms wrote it. I could not believe it was very flattering. No, I didn't give him a blowjob for it. I promise, okay? I'm not going to give him a handjob. That's where we draw the line. At the end of the day, I mean, I don't even know how to describe it. I would never read it out on the pod. I'd be embarrassed to read it. I'm the kind of person that defaults towards self-deprecating. I don't know if maybe it was just the way I was raised in the South. Yeah, well, I am a bridge troll. There's that too. Only a face that mother would love. That's right. And your wife. And that's why it feels like my mom wrote it. But I was always taught that if you want something nice said about you, let somebody else say it. Yeah. Don't say it about yourself. And you say it about me all the time. Well, absolutely. Which is so sweet. I mean, you actively do that. But that's because you are porn star. I said that to you the whole time we were roaming around that night. I'm like, you are porn star. But we didn't get no porn girls and we didn't get no porn boys because they are asexual. But this Hustler article, once we read it and we got to the end, the first thing we said is we got to email him and let him know that. He is a master wordsmith. It was just so gracious and kind to him to say the things he said. and then we realize that's our about us page that's what we're going to put we're going to say a lot about our history without giving too many details it was really quite perfect it was really an amazing interview he wished he could speak longer with us because he said you guys talk so damn much that i have more than a thousand words to say about you and i think at the end of the day we'll just put on the about us page we couldn't think of anything else to say so we just decided hear what somebody else had to say about it and that was great that was part of our weekend because his first draft of the article he sent by email we got it while we were at the avns that weekend We were having like a kind of reconnecting marathon night of sex, the two of us. We might have read it while we were in coital bliss. It was just part of our avian weekend. Yeah, it's a bit of a mindfuck when you have somebody who's like a professional writer and they actually wrote some- Because we are two everyday people sitting in a car. We are normal people. We ain't fancy. We really didn't belong at the avians. We definitely didn't belong at no avian awards. But here we are. We're like, we're just normal. Which actually makes it perfect. I like the idea of being this complete outsider, this outcast, in a place where we have no business being, and hopefully you guys get a kick out of hearing it too, because I'm telling you, we have no business being there. Right, so there maybe were like 8% of the people there might have been lifestyle-y, maybe swingers, maybe in the sense that people come to watch it. They put on a hell of a show with a lot of pomp and circumstance. They had Wiz Khalifa perform. So what, we get drunk. So what, we smoke weed. We just having fun. We don't care who sees And then he played at like intermission And all the porn star ladies, it wasn't any of the guys They all came rushing the stage and were dancing with him And we stood up in the audience, a bunch of people Because I wasn't going to go on stage without my mask on And a bunch of people were standing up in the audience, dancing and singing It was really, really fun But when you get there, you realize it's a big operation that they're putting on here And it's a convention, it's an expo, just like any other convention We were there during the weekend of the concrete convention Right. And I'm sure theirs wasn't as sexy, but they're working it no less. Yeah. So they've got during the daytime, they're setting up booths and things. People are like, you know, giving out selfies or signing autographs. We only plan to go in there and do a hit and run. We're going to go in there for the awards. But I will tell you, when they were announcing the awards at the end, I think we sat there and we thought, I don't know, because we've got our swinger guardian angel, Stuart Scott. And because you guys are our listeners, you guys are our friends and you guys are actually out there trying to make the unthinkable happen. I think we sat there for a second. You're trying to fight the good fight for us. And we thought, are we going to have to get up there? Well, so much so. It was fun. We almost didn't bring our masks with us because you're not really allowed to bring bags in. And we thought, I don't want to carry the masks all over, you know, carry around these masks on popsicle sticks, essentially. So in order to be clandestine about it, we had some fabric tape. Because, you know, you got to have some boob tape, right? You got to hold those boobs up in the outfits. And so I put the fabric tape on the back inside of my jacket. And that's what we affixed the mask to. Yeah, so when we got there, Vegas dress-up couples there, they hung with us for like three hours. It was so fun. You know, when we say that the porn industry, the porn people, they're really just not our people. They actually are very lovely people. One of the first things you'll notice is, especially when you get them alone, not when they're necessarily in networking mode. Because we also met a couple of porn stars. One of our trips to Vegas, they were doing a gangbang, and we wanted to watch it. Yeah, we were trying to get her digits. They were super friendly. Did you get her digits? I did get her digits. And they're very lovely people. She wants to do a collab with you with a foam head on. See, I don't think we're going to do that. I think the takeaway from this was that, just like getting meta verified. You're not gonna have an OnlyFans, are you, Leo? Just like going on the red carpet You guys wanted to see them in OnlyFans I know it On OnlyFans you got to submit everything A whole dossier Because they very careful about not having anybody appear in videos That is not consenting. That they don't have a clear record on who they are. And so there's a lot of these things where we just stop short and say, we're just not going to do that. That's not for us. And so, yeah, we're probably never going to do an OnlyFans. We make apparently a lot of bespoke porn right now. We do send, yeah, we send videos. We've got a special couple. But the reason we say that they're not our people is because at the end of the day, it is a business for them. It is about money. Right. And it never is far away from when you're talking to them. One of the first things they ask us is, when they find out we do a podcast. Can I be on your podcast? Put us on your podcast. Because so much of what they do is marketing. They've got to get themselves out there. What separates one porn star from another porn star? It's pure and simple marketing. We don't do porn. We do marketing. So they think it's going to be a match made in heaven. Match made in heaven. We're like. And so at the end of the day. Well, you know what? There are benefits for us. If we put them on the pod. We could probably sleep with them. Yes. Yes. Pay for play. We don't need to make money. We don't need to OnlyFans it. So you're saying there's a chance. Yeah. We won't let them put us on OnlyFans, but. But the other reason, the reason I say. There's benefits. That's all I'm saying. Friends with benefits. Yeah. But the reason I say that the porn guys and gals are not necessarily our people, this also goes glove in hand. Because they're always sort of have their mind on getting that bag. It's always a business. You've got to make money. So much of what they do is marketing themselves. And we're over here trying to hide in the shadows. And one of the things is, is that when we go to one of these events, it's all about being in the spotlight. And we're actually actively trying to shun the spotlight. When we go to lifestyle events, it is such a comfort that we can go and people aren't trying to come up to you and ask you for a selfie. Right. You could go to an entire lifestyle convention of 3,000 people and it's swinger code. You don't break out your phone. It's like bro code. Oh, I love it. You just don't do that. That's one of the best things about the lifestyle. Like I might have kissed dress up couple gal in the middle of the casino. and there were probably people taking pictures of us because we were the most sexual thing going on. Oh, there's no question. They were taking video and all. That was the most sexual thing. Going on. Anywhere in that casino. Yeah, you think to yourself. Isn't that ironic? Red carpet. These ladies, you know, they're busting out of their outfits. They're really hot. Nobody's like being sexual and playful and flirty on the red carpet. I heard one porn star passing another and she yelled out to the gal, aren't we going to be scissoring later? And you would think that that sounds really hot on paper, but it's almost performative. In reality, it doesn't feel sexual. When they're saying, aren't we going to be scissoring later? They're saying that we're going to be doing content later. And all we're doing is we're roving around looking for what are we going to have for sexy fun? Because at the end of the day, we just do it for the love of the game. We do do it for the love of the game. And if it ever felt, doing the pod felt like a chore, we would have to quit because we just do this for fun. At the end of the day, it's all about fun. And so being able to be low key around our people, the lifestyle people, is such a comfort. I don't have to be worried about whether somebody is going to put a camera in our face or whether we're going to show up on Getty Images or we're going to be in a live stream on YouTube. You just walk in and nobody does that. It's such a comfort. No one's going to ask you what you do for a living. They're not going to ask you anything about your personal life. It's just the here and now. And it's really, we all have like the swinger code. It's for fun. And the last part of that equation that we've kind of touched on is that lifestylers, you guys out there listening right now, you guys are sexy. You guys are about the sexy fun. And there's some electricity in the air. Because when you're at an event, it doesn't matter if it's a club and there's only 100 people or if you're at a big event and there's 3,000 people. You want to touch strange genitals. That's why you're here. We all want to do something, whereas it just didn't have that electricity at the AVNs. It pretty much feels like the only way they want to have sexy fun is if they can create content and monetize it. I'm not trying to yuck their yum. At the end of the day, everybody's got to make a living. And that's their living. That's their hustle and grind. We're just saying, we came away from it saying, I'm so glad the lifestyle is our tribe. If that same award ceremony was filled with sweaters. Oh, God. Can you imagine the difference of the electricity in the air? There'd be just light touches going on here and there. Everybody has a roving eye, as we all do. That Avian Awards felt as sexual as it would have been if we had gone to the Golden Globes or the Oscars. And I can understand that because for porn stars, they want, I think, the reason why is they want to feel like they're at the real Oscars. And it's very above board and it's very sterile. I think that's really what they're going for. Can you imagine going to the Oscars? There's not a lot of sex going on. No, but they don't understand that the people that are coming and paying to go to the Avians, right, they're fans. There are a lot of guys and they want to see some sexual tension in the air. They don't want to see you walking like you're going to the Golden Globes. I wonder if at a certain point, you know, we've said this about the live sex show in Amsterdam. It's not very sexy. There are couples that do live sex shows and they do it back to back to back to back. They must do it like six times a day. I wonder how sexy the sex feels when the lights go low. Do they go home and just think, you know what? I'm totally out of that mode, honey. I'm just not feeling it right now. You've said that about Porn Boy many times that we need to catch him on a night when he's just kind of bored. And he's like, I like to just have some sex for fun. Yes. As opposed to if you catch him when he's like, I'm in Vegas, I'm networking, I'm trying to collab. It is not the same. Lifestylers are like a bunch of horny teenagers. Are we ever, man? You guys are walking around. I love it. Moist. Yeah. With hard dicks in your hands. Moist coital. And you're looking for a hole to put it in. We actually like it. They're trying to be almost mainstream in a way. I think that a lot of people that go to Southern California, Los Angeles, Hollywood, how many of them do you think started out where they had some hopes and dreams of being maybe a model or maybe like a mainstream actor or actress? And then at some point. This is what you do. This is what you ended up doing. And I think that there's still some hints of that. You can see it up close. You realize it's about the business first. So would I advise you guys, if you had the opportunity to go to the AVNs, because I think for a fan, you could go for like maybe 200 bucks a ticket. It's probably worth a one-off because you get to get all glammed up. Everybody was really dressed up. There's drinks to be had. You can go mingle. They didn't even start the show for an hour and a half after we got there. And I think that's because they all wanted us to drink more. That could be. Because we all were drinking. It's funny that you say that because when I think of the Oscars or the Golden Globes, I'll bet there's nary a person having a pregame drink. They're going to wait till post-game show. Would you be drinking pregame to the Oscars? No, because I want to have my wits about me. I want to look as fresh as possible. And, you know, drinking isn't going to make you look fresh. Yeah. And so I kind of thought that here as well. There's probably not a whole lot of pregame going on. They're going to postgame as they do at the after party. Yeah. We were misfits. We were complete outsiders. I didn't feel like an outcast. I didn't feel like an outcast. I felt right at home. I felt like a porn star. Yeah. We felt like we were pretending. Porn stars, not porn stars. We're porn star adjacent. So let's try to give the TLDR a brief about top-down look at what the AVN Awards were like. Because we don't want to spend the whole episode talking about the AVNs. When we got there, we checked into our hotel. It was not the host hotel. Yeah, we didn't stay at the Virgin, which I'm glad because then you're just surrounded by porn stars the whole time. I think you feel like you almost have to be on at all times. And one of the things we like to do is we like to be low-key. Yeah, I better be like in full makeup. And, you know, that's just not me. If I want to look like a homeless guy walking through the lobby, then that's what I'm going to do. and I want to go get some sweet tea and Popeyes, then I just want to stay at our usual. We went over there on the first day just to go ahead and scout it out. Just to go see who's hanging in the bar, what kind of events are going on. Let's go see some porn stars. We saw them setting up the red carpet. They were putting painter's tape down on the floor. This is where you'll stand. And you can see, they are putting on a hell of a show. They had all their banners, larger than life, with the porn stars on them. If you were at the Virgin Hotel where they hosted it that weekend, you better be there for the ADNs because it is just everywhere. Then we had to check in. We had to get our badge. We dealt with a lot of the people that were putting on the show, and they were all very lovely people. Everybody. All the participants, just lovely people. And all around, it was a good time. When we got there, the hotel was buzzing with energy. You knew it was going to be the big night. Everybody dressed in their sexiest outfits. Yeah, it was a great place to go and feel sexy, dress sexy. But you making out with Vegas Dress Up Couple was probably the most sexual thing that actually took place at the red carpet. Yeah, we didn't see anything like that. And you would think, they're hot. They're hot people. Then we went into the show. We watched it. They had Wiz Khalifa. They had a comedian come on. They had the presenters. Probably you're in there for maybe three hours. I think it ended like 1130. Then you can kind of go out into the night. You can go to the after party. One of the funny wrinkles about the show that you might not realize is that they have a lot of pomp and circumstance where the presenters, they come up, they do a skit, and then they announce best anal scene. And then they come up just like the Oscars and they've got their speech. And they get a minute long to talk. Some go way too long. I want to thank my agent. I want to thank mom and dad. But the wrinkle to it is that there are a lot of categories for the Avian Awards. And what they do is about halfway through the award ceremony, they actually have an announcer come on and say to our other nominees for these awards, be sure to pick up your trophy at the Sky Lounge at the Virgin Hotel. And then he proceeds to rattle off like 25 categories in blazing speed. And best featurette. And best anal sex scene. I mean, it went that fast. You're like, so there's only a handful of categories at the AVNs where they do all the pomp and circumstance. They have you come up. They have you give a speech. So even had the unthinkable happen. It would have been over in a moment. There's no calling you up on stage. So we would not have gone up on stage. They don't have the best adult podcast. No, it's a fan award on stage. And all the fan awards are just announced in kind of like quick fashion. Like that fast. And I'll tell you what I was going to do. I was going to get up there and I was going to thank you guys because that award would have belonged to you. I probably would have peed in my pants. Well, I was going to say that I told our listeners the bet was that if you got us up here, I was going to drop trowel and I was going to loosen my belt, undo my button. That's his speech for real. And I'd just be holding my pants while I'd be in the middle of talking and then I'd just let it fly. I figured that would go over well at a porn awards show. You'd have to be holding it with one hand because you would never have broken character and taken your mask off. Either that or we'd get completely booed off the stage. But that would be fun too. They might have laughed. They might have had a little chuckle. I like that. He told me that. He wouldn't have told me that before. He told me that after the fact. Oh yeah. I'd never like to let you know ahead of time. I would have been. You would have gotten way too freaked out. Just as surprised as you. I'd have been like, holy hell. Did you just drop your pants? What the hell are you doing? I am so embarrassed. Yes, you embarrass the hell out of me. But that's on brand, you know? All the time. I embarrass you all the time. But you love it. But it was such a fun experience, all in all. I mean, it was great. It was. Now, we were online to get into the auditorium, and we're standing behind this couple. We get to talking, and it turns out- They're lifestylers. They're lifestylers. And it's not filled with lifestylers whatsoever. So what are the chances the people we get in line behind are another lifestyle couple? And it's a girl and two guys. So as we're talking to them in line, we start making fast friends. and then we said, maybe we'll sit next to you. When we finally get in and we sit down, it turns out they're in a throuple. Yeah, I said, like, where's your wife? Oh, we're in a throuple. I've never seen a guy, guy, girl. In the wild. I don't think we've ever seen that. That's what I want. That would be manicoric. And this girl is sitting there like a Cheshire cat who just ate the canary. I mean, no question. She's sandwiched in between them. I thought the third she was with was her husband. I didn't realize, oh, he's the husband. She's got both their hands in between her legs and I'm just like, oh, hell yeah. I would like that. That's jealous. Come on, just say it. I'm so jealous. And then Stuart Scott, we felt like he sat them next to us on purpose to show us this is what you guys are working toward. And, you know, that's really the balance of this podcast we're going to talk about is that, in a way, I think we've had a bit of a revelation in our lifestyle journey. As we're sitting there and I'm watching her, I realize you deserve something like that. And right to backtrack, we're in Vegas. And Leo had said, this one's your weekend. We're going to try to find a cute single guy for you. This is your weekend. I said, well, whatever happens, happens. And, of course, we found a cute single girl. on Reddit, all places. Unicorns rain on our heads. We have played every weekend since January with a single female. We've got two more upcoming. So we're going to go six for six weekends with unicorns. Listen, when we first started, I would never in a million years have guessed that MFFs would be our main dynamic. We started MFMs. That's really how we started. Yes, nothing but MFMs for like the first eight or nine months. A little bit, a couple play in the clubs. Never, ever a unicorn shall we meet. They're called unicorns for a reason. They're rare. when we met Lana, the first MFF really full-bodied, I remember saying like, this will never happen again. This may never happen again. So make sure, let's not fuck it up. Yeah, let's go to Vegas. Let's go on the cruise. Let's do everything because this will never happen again. I remember staring out into the abyss and thinking this might be the last time. I've said that to you. This might be the last time. So he's like, so don't fuck it up, honey. Okay. So let's make sure it's good. You better text her back. Probably why it contributed to why it was a throuple is because we went so hard. It's why we went exclusive. We're like, this may never happen again in our lifestyle journey. When you have a good thing, just go for it. Let's go all in. Just say yes. As I sit here today, I never would have in a million years thought that this would be our biggest dynamic in our journey. And I don't have that FOMO anymore. That FOMO is dead and buried. I think I realized that we have so many friends that we know biblically, and that's always going to be there. I know it. So many friends, you know, biblically. We could go to any place that we've been, and there's probably a girl waiting there for us. But listen, we are furthest from a one penis policy in our relationship. I know. I am an enlightened guy. Go figure, right? Where are the other penises? I want it to be a good single guy. And it turns out that good single guys are hard to find. Right. You know, we went through the great MFM drought, you know, from summer to October last year. To be honest, we haven't had one really since Porn Boy, but I don't call it a drought. There's just a lack of good single guys that I want to bring into the bedroom. And because we've graduated from soft to full. When it was soft, it was like, well, a mouth is a mouth. You're pretty good. It does feel like the stakes are much higher. Yeah, I got to add you to my body count, and I want it to be really good. If I see this guy, I think of him as, do I want him between my wife's legs? So yeah, we ended up with an amazing spicy Latina this weekend that she totally did a booty call with us. She's like, it's midnight. I'm just getting off work. She was a bottle service gal in one of the clubs in Vegas. And there we are, fast forward, and we're at a sad bar in the corner of the Luxor. Because she didn't want to meet us at the bar we were at. She said, can we meet at this other bar? I know the bartender there, and he's going to wonder what I'm doing here. And we're all sharing a tequila shot, saying, okay, I guess we're going to go back to our place. Bottoms up, bottoms up, bottoms up. And you're going to see the rave room. Oh, my God. It was hot. It was way hotter than I was expecting. She was apparently only bicarious, but you would not have figured it. You would not have noticed. She was going all in, and she kept being so concerned. Are you having fun? What do you want? What do you want me to do to you? You know, the other irony here is that in all of the threesomes, I'm not sure we've had a spicy Latina yet. And we've had a lot of threesomes. We have, and Leo really likes that spicy Latina vibe. Oh, yeah. He loves the brunettes. That's mostly what we play with because it's so opposite and contrasty to me. But he loves that Latina kind of flair. And this was the first. So, yeah. That's where the snowball happened. We had a first with the snowball. Yeah. She took most of it, but she did give some back to me. Yeah, that's funny that we've never done that before. It was hot. I mean, all of it was hot. She was going down on you. I was inside her. And then I would bend down and we'd kind of both take turns. Oh, that's right. She liked to hock to her. She liked to put some spit on it. Oh, God, it was hot. And that's not something we'd really ever done either. And we asked her. This is our new thing. It's our new thing. We will ask, especially a lady. We ask them, a girl. We say, what do you like? What's your kink? Before play, is there anything that you might like or haven't done that you might want to do? We don't ask it of guys because guys are pervy. You know, the dirtier, the better. Yeah, they probably want to do everything. But girls, you know, you're surprised. You're like, you're a cum slut? Oh, you- You have a breeding fetish? Right. You want to do a snowball. I mean, we don't know these things unless you tell us. We only often find them out after the fact. And we were like, oh, oh, you're dirty. I like it. And some of the things are things we've never done. So we're like, I'm here for it. She asks ahead of time, are there any things that you might have on a bucket list or anything that you like to do? And we end up getting a lot of interesting responses. So one of the things was she likes somebody to spit in her mouth. Somebody to spit in her mouth. She likes to spit on everything. You know what? I kind of liked it. It was hot. I didn't have a lot of spit to go around. But while I was inside of you and she's going down, I would actually spit on you. And then she would kind of lick it. I would lick it. It was hotter than I was expecting. It was really hot and I was totally there for it. I had an amazing time. So that's one of the funny things about asking them what are their deepest, darkest fantasies is because it exposes us to things that we would have never thought to do. And then we add it to our repertoire and think- Didn't know I was going to like it, but here we go. Yeah. So again, it was supposed to be this weekend for Kat. We got a lot of unicorns. We got two upcoming playdates coming up. This was my weekend, but you know what? If it's raining unicorns, you got to take what is given to you. And so one of the most deeply moving takeaways and revelations that came from this weekend, It actually turned out the chance meeting with the thruple, the man thruple that we met in the wild who sat next to us was that I watched that girl's face and I saw how happy she was. Leo is like thinking in his mind, a repeat guy. We can go to the movie theater. She can sit in between us. You know, we could be playing with her. You'll be a sandwich. You'll be the oe-gooey center. You're thinking about sleeping. You'll be in the middle. You have two guys on either side of you We might have a sleepover where we kind of sleeping and then I roll you over and then all of a sudden somebody else rolls you over I know I can believe I saying that out loud I tell you something else But we are evolved That why One of the other things is when we first started, we had that run of MFMs. That was pretty much our main dynamic. It was our introduction to the lifestyle. Part of it was I didn't want to scare you off. I didn't want you to think that somehow I was just playing the long game and I was only in this to get strength. Because you're like, honey, if you could just like fully be so bisexual that you want a one penis policy, it would make your life so much easier. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that if you were just fully bi and that wouldn't be a beautiful thing. If my cock was the only cock you wanted, you're like, OK, I'll take that one. If we just put a line through the MFMs, I'll take that. But, you know, you would say early on in the pod, hey, you know what? We should do an MFM episode or, hey, we should do a single male Bible. Early on, Leo was like, I don't want to pigeonhole us. I didn't want it to be inferred that that was all we do because, you know, people might say, well, OK, I don't know what that might imply. exactly about your dynamic. Are you not a ladies man? Can you not get the ladies? And so we put those episodes off for a while and then... We only did them after we realized we're pretty good in this MFF department. That started happening more and more. I think we had an MFFF before you put those pods out. And then we started talking about that. Because you guys all get it. This is what we did the weekend before. It got to a point where... Leo's an enlightened male. I feel now that I want people to know that when I saw how happy that made that gal... They might be called Chi-Town Thrupple. Because they're from Chi-Town, baby! Yeah. I'm going to tell you. It's gotten to the point where it feels so difficult to find a handsome single guy who is also kind. Not a douchebag. Yeah, you get some of those top 10% guys and they tend to come off as douchey, no question. But to try to find that combination is the true manicorn. And it's difficult because you got to usually find them on field. And already when you put yourself out on field, you're already a little farther afield than like a tender guy. I probably want a tender guy, but we haven't quite figured out how to break the code of being a couple on tender. Inexplicably, what's ended up happening is our dynamic is so far out of balance. And I feel guilty. There's no question I feel guilty. Sometimes I cringe a little inside that, oh my gosh, here we go again. So much so. When we came to Vegas, I mean, he was really very, matter of fact, this is your weekend, honey. I said, this is your weekend. We weren't looking remotely for a single female. It just kind of happened. I actually, it was one of those things. I put a little R for R in Vegas on Reddit because I wasn't finding anybody on field. I thought, ah, maybe I'll find someone. It was for a single guy. I said, I'm looking for an M for an MFM. I got like a hundred people on Reddit. I asked for a face pic. I asked for this and that. I just didn't really like any of them. And I got one single female who wrote, well, I'm a spicy Latina. If you're interested. And we're like, well, yeah, we are. I guess we got to do it. We got to do it. We got to do it. You have to take so much of the lifestyle is based on luck and randomness. You got to ride the wave you're on. So I was going to ride. You just have to go for it. And I rode the wave and it ended up being amazing. It ended up being amazing. And we did. We get an MFM over the weekend. No. And it was OK. But as I sat next to that man throuple, I know how happy it would make it. and I like you being happy. And one of the things is you've got a guy in your phone, one of the sexters. I've been sexting him since November. And I know heretofore, I've always said, I hate the sexting. We've had an enlightened weekend. I don't think he realized that this has been getting more intense in about the last two weeks because he came to us, right, virtually. And when I was having a threesome with Pussy Galore. I see the dopamine that goes off during the day and it makes you really happy. He's crushing on me. And I want to bring that into real life and make that happen. And it may be with him. They're over in Amsterdam. him. I know they're a Dutch couple. Well, they're friends with Benefit. They're hooking up. But yeah, he'd come alone too. Yes. And I'll take them both. But for your sake, I would take him alone as well. Yeah. He doesn't need to bring her in order to make that happen. But it was really fascinating because he was already growing a little more intense in that we wrote a lot. I don't think Leo knew the extent of it that I really enjoyed whenever he would just ping me. Hey, you know, how's it going? I feel like the sexters are a bunch of randos coming through the side door. I didn't really care for any of them. Yeah. But if it's a good looking guy and he's really treating you kindly and just he's a talker you like that he adores me he makes you happy that's what it is i wake up every morning there's a text from him do i like him is the question yeah does he get past my and i'm not sure you thought about this particular guy very much until this weekend because we had leo and i our last night there we had like a marathon sex session just the two of us we're like you know what if we can't find anybody we're gonna have fun on our own and so we did and he was it's he's in amsterdam he was at work and we had a pop in we'd be sending some videos because I know he's sending videos of he and his girl and then we'd be swapping some videos. He would say, okay, I'll go to the bathroom real quick and watch this one. He's like, I don't have my AirPods with me. Do I need sound? I'm like, well, I said your name in it. So you might want some sound. It was so fun. At the end of the day, I hadn't realized that you'd found the combination of a handsome guy that treats you right, who makes you really happy. Who has a little bit of a gift of gab and is, you know, leaning in. How many single guys lean in? None. And do the little thing. He'll send a video of them together and it's like a cum video. He's fucking her. He comes. And then she said like, oh, Leo. And then he's like, I'm going to come for cat. It's like it's bespoke porn. It's amazing porn. But running into the throuple in the wild, it made me realize that I think it's time that we try to seek that out. You find a regular that we can go. Little guy that I crush on. And we can just hang out. I can crush. And I'm ready to actually look at you sandwiched in the middle, looking like a Cheshire cat with feathers sticking out of your mouth. I'm OK with that. And I got another theory. Our swinger guardian angel, Stuart Scott. We were sitting in the food court. Eating Popeyes. And we're watching on the screen. And they're doing the 30 for 30 on ESPN about Stuart Scott. It's called Booyah. We took photos of it. We're like, what are the chances that they're showing him? He's passed, right? He's long since passed. And they're showing like screenshots of him. I think they did like maybe a documentary. And we're like, this is just meant to be. But whomever it is, our angel on our shoulder, I do have a theory that it's somebody who's passed on that's related to me. Yeah, he thinks it might be like his grandmother because she's a little randy in her time. They make things happen in our lifestyle journey that are too wild to be believed. They're unbelievable. And they know, whomever this is, how much I care about you. So they take care of us in our journey. However, sometimes the taking care of portion feels a little bit skewed in my favor. The fact that if I wanted to have a one penis policy, this would be a pretty good cosplay of it. Maybe I just haven't been ready to finally feel full compersion and focus on your happiness in this kind of way. Well, you know, it's a growing, there's growing pains as you evolve. I've only gone full a couple of times. And as we move on and as we evolve, they're getting more full bodied, more full throated of an experience. But the whole seeing this throuple, you've said it in passing. I'd love you to have a manacorn. But I don't think you really meant that in the sense that you weren't ready for it. Yeah. So we're going to call it a throuple, not a throuple. Yeah. That's what we'll call it. So then a manacorn. Not only did we have our Dutch boy, he was there for hours with us, egging us on. I felt like I had a virtual MFM. I felt like our sex was an MFM. Yeah. There's no question it felt like that. God, it was so hot. Like it was just absolutely epic. And it really just sated me to where I'm like, I don't want to, you know, a mid choice. I want. But here we go again. And I said, this is your weekend. It didn't quite turn out that way. And there was Stuart Scott delivering your sexter, a guy that I like. I like him a lot because I see how happy he makes you. And he's a good guy. So, I mean, we're taking applications over here. Okay. So if you're listening to this today and you're listening to this a year from now you're probably in the 35 and under range shoot your shot we are taking applications slide into cat's dms and not only did we have this virtual mfm which was absolutely amazing like i go back and i read all the texts we had going on back and forth and leo and i are taking videos says all the right things he's a little bit dirty but he's also kind and he just likes me he adores you and he says that he expresses it all the time yeah i see it just shoots off a little bit of dopamine for you we've got a a little emotional connection going on. And I don't think I realized just how happy it makes my wife to have those little dopamine drip going. And then as if that wasn't enough, we arrive home and the night we arrive home, we get out home like nine 30 at night. I'm checking field. Okay. You can't make this. Let me change. Let me get out of Vegas. I'm checking field. And I've got one person who's written, Hey, I like your profile, you know, attractive couple, or he said something about our review that we had posted. And I started talking to him and I'm like, well, you're not in Vegas at the same time as me. He said, no, we'll make this happen. We've been chatting now on and off last night this morning long story short for gab it sounds like the dutch guy he is he's ready to play the long game with a great looking guy oh he's really hot he is under 30 he's super fit and he has you're telling me i gotta work on my six bags and he wants his whole profile is i want a threesome like i am looking for a threesome that is what i want in and he leans in pretty hard but he's also a respectful guy i like him too i know he was really cute he said okay so we're talking back and forth this morning and he's like i really want to show you my cock i'm so hard would that be okay? Like, you know, he's not just sending unsolicited dick pics, which he has a sweetness about him and he makes you happy. I said something like, he said, what is your bucket list with an MFM? And I said, well, one of the things I really want to repeat, I want that ongoing chemistry to build and build. And then he writes back, you know, I fantasized about being an ongoing third for a couple, you know, not a throuple. He used the word throuple. And he said throuple, like we're saying, not a throuple, but I'm there anytime after midnight as needed. So there's a lot of potential with this guy, but let me tell you something. If you're newbies out there and you're just starting out your journey to give you a little bit of insight into where we're at. We take things slow. We've gone slow the whole way. I mean, it is true. We've speed run our way through the lifestyle, but even where we are at this phase, but if you look at what I'm doing in the lifestyle, we're going really slow. We're still like the lowest mile gal. Okay. So in Vegas, you know, we were swiping like crazy on field. We didn't meet anybody. I don't think we did any meet and greets. So it wasn't for lack of looking. It wasn't for lack of trying. We were trying our damnedest. But you know, when we first started, we would talk about, we'd have to be almost holding hands when we said spaghetti sex. Spaghetti sex meant we didn't want to be further than about arm's length. And single guys aren't necessarily going to want to come back for that because they want to cosplay a little bit like I've got you alone. Every soft swap we did, we would get in the bedroom and we would say, well, we do everything except this. So, you know, we can kind of finagle and do some spaghetti with this, but we don't do that. And we've evolved to the point where, yes, now we can do for the right guy. He can roll me over and wake me up in the morning. Not sure how I feel about saying that out loud. That's your cat grin on her face. And we've joked today about me getting up and going grabbing a drink in the middle of play while you continue. Oh my God, it's so hot. And it started off as a joke. I think that this weekend has brought it home to roost. But there's no question that I would do that today. That wouldn't bother me a bit. But you weren't remotely ready for that. No. Really? I mean, with Porn Boy, you took video. So that was a big deal. Vlad the Impaler. The flip. The flip. When I walked out, I was coming back. We were going to get ready for DP. You were in the DP position. But when I return. You are not in a DP position. You were in missionary. You'd been flipped over. There'd been no room for you. I didn't care for that initially. I'd only left the room for about 30 seconds or so, maybe a minute. Because we didn't do that where we left the room. I leave the room too while we're in the middle of play with a unicorn. I think this is an evolution of the compersion. I realize maybe it's also because of the guilt. I'll take whatever I can get. I also realize I want to make my wife happy. And if it's the right guy and I like him, then all lights are green. Let's do this thing. And if I have to get up in the middle of play to go get us all something to drink, then I'm going to do that because you know what? That throuple, when we were all sitting down, the husband got up and he went to the bar to get drinks for everybody. And she sat there with her third and he's got his hand stroking on her inner thigh. And I'm like, damn, that is hot. And that might've made most people raise an eyebrow. The optics of the husband getting up and getting drinks for everybody. Our evolution is that nothing's going to come between us. It would have raised eyebrows. See, that's not the part that I'm worried about. It's not about somebody coming between us. It's more what it looks like. No. And we also realize the more we do this, the sexual stuff we do with other people, it is fun. It is hot. It is titillating, but it's nothing like the connection you and I have. To me, I think on a manly level, it has more to do with the optics. You want to look macho. I don't really like the idea. I don't know if I use that term. Yeah, that's you. But you are a bad boy with a really kind heart. And I think all of our unicorns would say that about you. Well, I appreciate you saying that. But if you were a bad boy, I probably wouldn't like you. Yeah, that's probably true. Who else would take me to the AVNs? But I think that if there was anything leaning towards the one penis policy, it would only be the optics. That up to this point- Like your boys from college, if we ever thought of burping the Tupperware, which we won't. Oh, you talk about my boys. Yeah. If I were to say something like, oh, yeah, you know, we have a lot of threesomes. Like, you know, cats become very bi. I sure as hell not going to say with another guy. Because the boys that I ran with back in the day, they would raise an eyebrow right away and say, so how's that work? They would think that it looks a little emasculating. Maybe, yeah. And when you're in the lifestyle and you're deeply in it, you understand that it actually makes you a better husband because you're so— Well, it takes a really confident man. Yeah, I was going to say, you're so confident in your manhood. You're so confident in your relationship with your wife that you're like, I could give you this on the side. It's kind of like what we talk about with guys who are heteroflexible, guys who are bi. That's not me, but we've said it before that I don't really mind that energy being present in the bedroom. If they want to look and things like that. It makes them more comfortable in a threesome mode. But I think you do have to be a confident male. If you're going to be a straight guy and you're okay with that, you have to be confident in your manhood, your maleness, your sexuality. Where did that come from? It's a non sequitur. You said you have to be confident in your male hood. I was thinking about you naked in the bedroom with another guy. Your manhood. Literally your manhood. Yeah. Your shaft. I've always been confident in who I am. I've never had that problem. You've never had that problem. But when you start bumping up against the boundary lines of the optics, where I wouldn't necessarily tell this to my boys back home, then yes. Which is why. It's taken a while to get to that point. Which is why it was really cute. This new guy on field that we might meet in Vegas at some point, you know, he talks about, I've thought about a throuple, essentially not a throuple because he's thinking of the optics. Like probably I wouldn't want to tell friends that I'm like dating a couple, but I like the idea of being an ongoing third. If you're going to ask me about the optics of sitting in a movie theater where you're in the middle and I've got one hand on your thigh and he's got the other. You are here for it. And then I'm going to the concessions asking if anybody wants something. Give me some snow caps. I have never had some snowballs. There's not going to be any snowballs in that scenario. There's no snowballs in the MFL. No, sorry. You're going to have to swallow all the snow caps. Again, with an MFL, we don't ask them if you've got any particular fantasies. Yeah, I don't want to know. But at the end of the day, yeah, I'm to that point. And yes, a large part of getting to that point is that, yes, such a huge part of our dynamic is that we do play with a lot of single gals. I think it's pretty well established that I don't need to worry about the optics of going on. What did you call it? Almost like a date. Is that see, I don't even like the way of saying that. See, I'm still not quite to that point. We just go. We're going out as a throuple. But I can be your husband and I can look at you and I can see how happy it's making you. And I can actually get a lot of compersion out of that. It's like hiring a pool boy. And you're like, I did that for my wife. Who the f*** am I talking like this? I don't recognize myself. You're so much more enlightened. Like this experience over the weekend with my Dutch boy sexting, right? We'd already sexted with him in the moment, but we were in the middle of a threesome with pussy galore. Leo's a little busy, you know, one cock in the bedroom and all. This was the first time he's reading some of the texts with me. And he's like, wow, this is what you've been doing all along. I can see why you like this so much. It feels a little more meaningful. There's such an emotional connection. Like I just like him as a person. I like him as a person, and that's probably the last crucial piece of the puzzle. It was really a very profound weekend for us. And so there it is. I have to like him. I have to feel like he's such a good guy and he's being really good to you and that he makes you happy. Then we could spend a whole weekend with him. Then I can say, you know what, get in here. Like he's been saying for six months, I'd love for us to have like a weekend away with a good single guy, just like we've taken Lana away for the weekend. But he didn't really mean it. I don't think in his heart of hearts, he wasn't. I've been bullshitting. Is that what you're saying? He wasn't ready for that yet. The distinction when you say that that's important is because it is true that I might say one thing, but in my heart of hearts, I might have a visceral feeling that might be uneasy about the idea. You weren't ready for that. And you know who can sense my uneasiness? A single guy. Our swinger guardian angel, Stuart Scott. Because whomever it may be. They threw a thruple at you. I think they might lean a little bit more in my direction sometimes to protect me, not just both of us. Because it's not someone in my family. And if that were true, the amount of times that the guy doesn't work on the end of a bender in Vegas that we might have been supposed to have a meet and greet with on the heels of having an MFF. And I'm privately saying, well, you know, if we have to go home empty handed, oh, well, maybe next time. It's true that I've probably said that a lot. But he's coming off of a weekend where it was supposed to be, let's find an MFF for Kat. We come across a throuple in the wild A man throuple On the heels of us then having a virtual MFF that was really hot We arrive home and I get a ding field cute boy And he is like I all in I so interested And he uses the word throuple without me saying it first. Weird. Yeah. It's taken me a while to get to this point. And I think that our Swinger Guardian Angel has realized that fact. Sometimes they know us better than we know ourselves. To me, it was a revelation this weekend to see how happy the Dutch guy was making you. He's really good to you. We started our night and I was in the phone. I was kind of swiping here and there. And he's like, you know what? We need to stay connected, just the two of us. We don't need all that. But then he started coming in. And this is someone that I have a real strong emotional connection with. And I think Leo was like, you know what? Let's make this a virtual MFM. And you got real into taking videos that you knew he would like. It's hard to convey to our listeners our superstition about our Swinger Guardian Angel here. There's too many things to put in a podcast that have happened that are so strange, too weird to be believed. And a lot of them are things that don't happen. That's true. You made something not happen. And we look back at those moments and we're like, that would have been. Averted disaster. It would have been such a bad decision. Only by the grace of our Swinger Guardian Angel. But I'll tell you one. When we were about to go full with Vlad the Impaler, and he's this dashingly handsome guy in Vegas. He's a rusky. And at some point, meeting him at the center bar of the casino, it occurred to us, how much do we really know about this guy? We didn't do very much talking back and forth. He did send us a photo, you know, one extra photo. But then we realized he is so damn good looking. Maybe he's too good looking to be believed. Maybe we're being catfished. Are we being catfished? And why on earth have we not seen the warning signs? Because we feel like we're smarter than them. We had the first hitch where he said, I'm running a little late. And that is when you start needing to walk yourself back off the ledge. As soon as you hear that, you need to go 50% as excited as you were. This is maybe not going to happen. At least if you walk it back early enough, maybe you'll fall out of a one-story building. So already. And you'll live to tell the tale. We were less excited. We're like, okay, this is probably not going to happen. So here we are. And there's such a delay in him showing up to the center bar. we actually started walking back to our room in the hotel and i turned to you and i said i really hope this happens i want this and i meant it and he knew this was the time we were going to go full we'd have talked about it we're like we're ready for this and i felt like he was a really good choice and that's a big deal for you to say that it's a really big and i think that we had that delay where he didn't show up and we had a hitch in our step to give you the moment to decide am i really ready and when our swinger guardian angel heard me call out he said i'm here. The phone went, and we looked down and he said, I'm here. It was in that moment. And we turned around and we ended up having one of the best MFMs we've had to date. And in that same vein, I sit here to tell you today that I do really want this for you. I want somebody who might be kind of a regular, kind of crushing on you, who adores you, who treats you right, who you are kind of crushing on him, who you kind of adore him. And I get to see how happy it makes you. That is so sweet. Oh my God. Yeah. I got two on my phone right now. So I'm hoping I want what I want and I will wait as long as I have to for it. And in the meantime, we've got MFFs for here to the eyes can see. And I'm okay with that because it's fun. It's lifestyle fun. You know what? Let me tell you, part of the fun is the girls in our life are some of the most wonderful, wonderful people that we've met in the lifestyle. They make the lifestyle, our whole experience, our whole journey, they've made it next level. It's full bodied. We have such great friendships. I mean, we're friends with every one of the people we have played with. I like the emotional connections. I like the friend energy. We know that if we show up in whatever state, whatever city they live in, we probably could reach out and we probably could, A, definitely grab a drink, B, probably play. They're irreplaceable in my mind. And I feel extremely fortunate to have had that experience and circumstance happen. It's just taken a long time to get to this point where I am ready to open the doors and let that in. And you weren't ready. And, you know, even this weekend before we came across the throuple, before we had our virtual MFM, I think it was on Friday night. I actually told you, I'm not sure I can keep doing this. I'm ready to quit because is what I want. Does it even exist? You thought about throwing in the proverbial towel. Because I'm like, I can't do MFFFs forever. You've been getting ground up. And yes, we can do couples. But, you know, it's got to be the right couple. And I'm just like, I like events. Okay, well, I still like that. Generally speaking, single guys suck. Generally speaking, it's difficult to find a guy who leans in enough that doesn't have just a hit it and quit mentality. Who just makes the fireworks go off inside of you? The better looking, the younger they get, the more douchey they tend to present as. It's difficult. You have to get like an XY coordinate. You have to find the plot point where they're good looking enough, but also a good enough guy. Yeah, respectful. It's hard. And it is sometimes feels like a desert out there. And we even thought before Vegas, we're going to get on Tinder. We're going to be a couple on Tinder. Try not to get banned because I'll have more choices on Tinder. Maybe that would be a new frontier for us to try. Where it's more mainstream. Maybe you end up getting those kind of guys in a more mainstream app. We hit a hitch while we're signing up. We need to verify with your photos. And you're just like, oh my God. No, they want to do a video verify. And then they store that biometric data. And we just are not okay with that at this point. So we're like, okay. And we've heard that Tinder, you know, they'll lock your account, kick you off. So we're going to do what? Video verify? And then they'll own us forever. And then we're banned. We don't feel crazy about the idea. And so there you are staring out at the abyss, wondering, why am I even doing this? And then I come across a throuple in the wild, my virtual MFM. You just need to get in touch with your buy side even more. You need all the way in, Kat. One penis policy. Although you look like you lean all the way in. When you're in the bedroom. I like it a lot in the bedroom. You are downtown. And I, you know, would still like to be with a very bi girl. I am picking up what you're putting down. And have her and I getting it on. And you could just leave the room. And you could come back and find us just with each other. You talked about poochie. I know you just said this as a throwaway comment. But you said, I could see going out with her just girlfriends. And, you know, I don't know, doing shopping or something like that. But doing something together, an activity. Yeah, we don't need you. As just you girls. And I know you said before that I'm not so bi that I would go out on a date with a girl. or have like a play experience with just the girl. But I am thinking of some of the unicorns in our life or that are yet to be in our life. And I am thinking about how, especially the more bi they are. If they really are equally attracted to the guy and the girl as many unicorns are, those are the ones that I could see her and I just totally, well, having sex together and you don't even need to be a part of it. You can just... I'm torn when you say that. That sounds hot as a grease fire. And then I think to myself, what the hell am I doing? You got my dick in my hand in the corner? You're going to jerk it. I'm going to jerk it, huh? Jerk it all over us. The snowball comes at the end. Oh, yes. No, you can join us. I'll do a spit on it. You got to give us a little time together. I think I would really enjoy that. Like a girl who knows her way around a strap-on. I think any guy in the lifestyle. I want to be taken by a girl. Oh, yeah. We've actually got a couple of girls in our life that are like that. Yeah, I would like that. I'd like to think the girl that's coming up in Vegas is like that. She's bringing her strap-on. Yeah, that one's going to be a pretty special one. I think any red-blooded male in the lifestyle is lying to you. if they're saying they're not sitting there thinking about their wife with another woman, not just the sexual thing that happens in the bedroom, even more so the bestie friendship that happens outside the bedroom. I'm going to sit here and tell you right now, if you were going out and doing like girl stuff together alone with her, and then you save the bedroom stuff with all of us, I mean, that would just warm my heart. I want to turn the table. If I had a manicure and you got along with him so well, you two went out to go watch a game and get a beer. I thought for a second there that you meant go out with him. and I didn't like that one bit. He's not that evil. I was like, hell no. So when he says he's enlightened, he's not that evil. I was trying to figure out the parameters of what you were talking about. You didn't even like me sleeping in the bed and he could roll me over while you're sleeping. But you know that's on the table. Yeah, that'll happen. But you don't like to admit it. You're not going out with it. That's not what I said. You're saying if I went out and did guy stuff with him. To have two guys. Yeah, I could see that. Who I'm really sexually attracted to go out together. That's the exact dynamic I'm talking about. And I am the glue that's holding you two together. Yes, yes. It's like, oh, that's just the sexual, it's palpable. Watching my wife be besties, I think that that's the dream. I think that that's the fantasy. I think that that's the final boss. Thinking of my wife with almost a girlfriend, for lack of a better word, and you're going out and you're doing bestie friends things together. We're working out together. We're doing some Pilates. And then we all have this sort of relationship, but that it is very sexy fun in the bedroom. To me, that's probably the end all be all. And so likewise, you're saying. For you to have like a bro relationship, like just some dudes hanging out. Yeah. That means he has to be manly enough that you'd want to hang out with. Like, you know, you're kind of a guy's guy. That would warm your heart and it would warm yourself down below. It would. I'd be moist, coital. You would be absolutely beside yourself with happy, wouldn't you? Yeah, I would. So that's the goal. That's where we're at right now. That's the goal. I'll take it where I can find it, but I'm willing to wait and I'm willing to be patient. I don't care if we go to Vegas and we're there for three, four nights and we don't play every night. When you say you're the problem sometimes. Hi, it's me. I'm the problem. It's me. But in a way, that's an oversimplification. I'm also the problem. You are the problem, actually. It is true. It's you, actually. You're selective, but so am I. I didn't get into the lifestyle as a cheat code for anybody to just lay hands on my wife. I was so overprotective of you. First of all, five years ago, this would have never happened. You thought us winning the AVNs was a snowball's hell's chance. You can't even say, lay hands on my wife. You know what you're saying, to have somebody else inside it your wife. Put it in, yeah. Yeah. And today, I still, mentally, I want her to be a good choice. I'd like to be able to look at them and say they're a good choice for you, but they're also a good choice for me. I got two possibles in my phone right now. And they're both good choices for you. We know they're good choices. And they're both good choices for me. They just don't live near us. I like them. And so we might do some traveling because if we can find really great opportunities that are farther afield, we like to travel. I'll give you the one piece of advice on this podcast. Because you sure as hell know that this podcast was not about advice. This was called not edutainment. No. This was just pure drivel. This is just what we're up to this weekend. If you want to improve the odds of having a really great lifestyle journey and experience, you have got to travel. I'm telling you. Oh, and you should try threesomes. Oh, yes. You should add that to your repertoire. If you're a guy and you're like, hell no, am I going to bring a guy into the bedroom? I need the wife. You really should try it. We were on Reddit a couple of weeks back, and you know we touched on Angela. We think that she's a boss bitch. She's out there. She's an OG of the lifestyle. She gives this really sage advice. You can just tell by reading in between the lines. She doesn't sugarcoat it. She doesn't mince words and a lot of people aren't going to like it. But she dispenses knowledge like a Pez dispenser. She does. And she was talking with Buck Rides Out. Two people that have been in the lifestyle for 20 plus years. And one of the things that struck me that they said to each other was, they said that mostly these days they're dynamic. They play separate. Not necessarily solo, but they're same roof, but they are not in the same bedroom. And that's not us. They go off and they're pretty much having twosomes with people that are not attached to someone else. But what I found interesting was it sounded a lot like an overlap with how we like threesomes. They're saying, I can choose what I want. You can choose what you want. Never the twain shall meet. It's just that we do it, all of us in the bedroom at the same time. You really should consider that because your wife is probably going to find better choices. We have a friend. We call her Unicorn Not a Unicorn. They're a couple and she's willing to unicorn for us even though she's never unicorned in her life. And we haven't played with her yet. But she slid into my DM. She's chatting with me. And she said, I'm about to have my first MFM cat. Tell me what to do. I'm so excited. I think it was a young guy. He was younger and she'd never experienced that because, you know, they play with people their own age. He's a fit guy, all this stuff. She was so excited about it. But, you know, if your future self could give your past self some advice, I find it to be very interesting that Angela and Buck Rides Out are sitting here swapping stories 20 years on. And that's where they've arrived in their journey. Because they want each other to be happy. We're like a couple of hungry, hungry caterpillars. And we're coming at it from two different ends of the spectrum. For us, it's been since the very early days. That's always been part of our journey. Do you not have advice for your past self from now that you're your future self? Are you like, I probably did it the way I wanted to do it? Well, that's because we have a Swinger Guardian Angel. Because the things that we've done have just been... And somehow we stumbled into threesomes really early on. We're not smart enough or good enough to play the game, to have had the experiences and the journey that we... It's been quite a charm journey. And threesomes should be part of every swinger's journey very early on. Because you have more control over them. The two of you are connected. You know, oftentimes newbies are like, oh, my husband's with her and I'm with the guy. And we forgot to even look at each other. If you're in a bedroom with three people, you, husband and wife, are connected. Well, we came up with an interesting thing also we were talking about this weekend. We've talked in the past about wife poachers. We've talked in the past about unicorn hunters. You know that those are a thing. But today I was struck. I think I came across somebody talking about newbies. When you're first playing, you know, you have to take it slow. You have to be careful. You have to find your voice and have your agency. Before you get into the bedroom, one of the things that we've talked about is giving advice to newbies is that you might want to play with another couple that's on your level. rather than an experienced couple. Because they're not going to take advantage and try to push your boundaries beyond what you're willing to do. And somebody said it is true that there are a small number of couples who are very experienced in the lifestyle who will target newbies specifically because they know they don't have their voice yet. Would you call them newbie poachers? Newbie hunters is what I call them. They'll get you in the bedroom and you can run a routine. There's no question you can run a routine on a newbie couple. We realize we do enjoy, as far as couples go, we enjoy the newbie vibe a lot. And that's why we say, if we're in the bedroom, One of the first things is when you're new, you don't know what you want to do yet. You might just like the sexy vibe to unfold organically. But one of the things we say is that if we were in the bedroom with a newbie couple, if you wanted to stop playing and just say, you know what, I just, I'm not ready for this. And nor would we then stop being friends with you. But not every couple is going to be like that. And certainly not every experienced couple. No. They might like to nudge boundaries. But as far as newbies go, for us, we would rather be in the bedroom with a newbie couple who hasn't done much, but is ready to do more. Because I don't totally want to be in the bedroom with someone who... Yes, we encounter a lot of newbie couples that will reach out. And they probably don't quite know what they want yet at this very early stage. And I think it's cute to watch the newbie couple energy. But when it's so new, I don't want to come off like a newbie hunter, right? So I'm not going to be the couple who's going to try to convince you. And we've moved beyond, you know, same room, no swap. The parallel play stuff. We've moved beyond that. We need to be doing some touching if we're going to be in the bedroom with someone. You know, we need more. And that doesn't mean that you can't be doing touching and then stop in the middle of play. No, that's different. You can change your mind. I just wasn't ready for this. And that's totally cool. It's just that I don't necessarily want to have to convince somebody in their very earliest days who hasn't done anything. You want someone who's at the tail end of their soft swap phase to be like, I might want to nudge some boundaries. And I've seen a few things. And we'll be happy to nudge them as softly and kindly as possible. And put up any stop signs you need at any time we adhere to those. Because I don't think we'll ever quite be out of the newbie mindset. I don't think we'll ever have a jadedness set in, a DTFness. We're not thirsty people. What about when we're 70? Okay, maybe we'll be ETF and thirsty then. We'll be like a cringy, creepy swing couple. We'll take whatever we can get. Is that it? We'll take whatever we can get. The truth is- We're going to go on a lot of bliss cruises. Honestly, we'll probably have quit by then. Yeah. I think that ship will sail. I'm not going to go and hang around too long, be one of those prize fighters who doesn't know when to hang them up. You're such a liar. We'll never quit. I think I'm the kind of person, I can be obsessed. I can go hard at something. And then one day, like Forrest Gump, at the end of running a marathon across America- I think I'm done now. Yeah. But I'm not going to be ready, am I? Oh, then you can hot wife me. So you've been playing the long game. So I'm going to be 70 and I'm going to be like, I'm going to get them young 50-year-olds. I'm going to get me some. Not sure I'll ever get to that point. But yeah, that's where we are right now is we've had a bit of a revelation. And I'm telling our swinger guardian angel, booyah. And I also told you. I am ready to bring somebody in that I like, who's really good to you, who's a cute guy, and he makes you happy. I want the happy. I want to see you happy. I actually have a video waiting for me as we speak from my Dutch boy. Yeah, I know. You've been on the phone through this podcast checking in. I know, but he's with his girl right now. And I just have to keep it. I have to stoke it. It's so hot. So, yeah. You ready to go find a manicorn? Yeah. Thrupple, not a thruple? I'm willing to wait as long as it takes. And in the meantime, we'll just have to settle for second place. Second place at the Porn Oscars. Hell yeah, Porn Boy! Yeah, we're going to get you a Porn Boy. Still got to get me a Porn Girl. You get too much pee already. It's my turn. We also have a Sibian waiting for us at the post office. Let's go get that. Let's go get that. Rumble in Cat's Jungle. Yeah. So if you liked what you heard, go ahead and either subscribe or... I didn't know how that works. Just come and listen. We might post once a week. We might post a couple times a month. I don't know. We might get bored and stop doing it. So you better come and listen while it's still going. Otherwise, we'll lose interest. Tell us how much you like it. Yeah. Leave a comment. That'd be cool. We love it. Where can they leave a comment? I don't know. Maybe we lost some comments. We don't have a website yet. Okay. Look out the front