I want you to leave here today thinking differently because I believe that like it or not, every role is a gig and you are all part of the gig economy. Whether you are on a salary and get a W-2 at the end of the year or a freelancer. A year ago I came across a TEDx talk from an executive coach that really resonated with me. I wanted to share this conversation with you. After almost two decades as an executive recruiter, Pat switched sides to expose the secrets behind the hiring curtain. She's coached over 900 executives globally. Her bulletproof methodology will help people understand the rigged and frustrating hiring system and will make sure they never say, I didn't see it coming. Hey, Pat, welcome to the show. Hey, Paul, I'm thrilled to be here. At the beginning of the show, I used your famous quote that every job is a gig and everyone is in the gig economy. What is the moment that you knew the time was right to get this message out into the wild? I know that writing books and TEDx talks are hard. Yeah, they are hard. They're hard, but they're easier when I got to the point where it wasn't something I wanted to do. I recognized it was something I needed to do. And a couple of things intersected, but a lot of it had to do with having done, I was doing workshops pretty regularly and coaching a lot of folks. And I just would see, especially for my workshops, the workshops were designed to help people land. And then I'd turn around, they'd land, they'd disappear, and two, three years later, they were back in the room. That was early on, maybe 12, 15 years ago. But then I just saw that speed up. And just the more I coached, the more I heard what was going on, the more I realized how dysfunctional everything was getting on the corporate side and realized that the candidates were not equipped to navigate that. That was number one data point. So that got me started in my book. And I was literally editing the final draft of my book to be published when I got an outreach from TED organization here in Atlanta asking me to do a talk on the gig economy. They had originally asked me to do something about teaching people that they could be overdrivers. I'm being facetious, but something that simple. And I went back to them and I said, look, I want to talk, I want to explain to them why they need to think and act like a gigger. I don't care whether they're a W2 or 1099, this is what's going on. And the more they think like that, the more they'll always be ready to be ready, which is a big thing that I want everybody to be. So that kind of got it. But it really wasn't. I think when you write a book because you want to, it's drudgery. When you write a book because you know you need to, it just kind of flows. No, I completely resonate with that. There was a book in my head that had to come out. And that's what led me to writing the gig mindset. How do people react when you share with them that the days of tenure are gone? I think people kind of intellectually know that. But they need to be ready for a world where they're always in transition. I mean, it must be shocking to tell a full-time employee or even a consultant that, hey, you're in the gig economy now. Yeah, it's shocking. And I would say that it's getting more, they're adjusting to it more rapidly a little bit now because they're seeing more of it around. Again, when I first started talking about this about a decade ago, it was they didn't want to hear it. It was a denial. I guess that's the best way to say it. Like, no, I know that's happening for others and maybe it's happening in technology, but it's not going to happen in my industry. It's not going to happen to me. So it really came across to me like denial. And that's what I started to see is they denied it. They went back to work. And what I found and I still find is it takes a couple of times having those short stints before they come out and go, wait a minute, there may be something to this and it may not be just a few incidents. It's coming much more rapidly. So it is very hard for them to face, especially because they've been brainwashed for so long and to just do your job and you'll be fine. So that's the biggest thing I would say. I also think that the denial is getting a little bit less as reality keeps hitting. Yeah, you and I first got the opportunity to talk, talked about the programming. You know, and it's one of the things I talk about in my book, too. I was I was a third generation company, man. I was programmed by my father gave me the best information he could. And he said, hey, you work for your manager, work for the company and you'll retire. Until I realized there's no way I'm going to stay in technology until I'm I'm 65. When you talk about that denial and one of the things I think is really interesting that you write about is I didn't see it coming. And you just look at the news and it's all over the news about the restructuring. And, you know, a lot of different. We talked about the new book about Jack Welsh, the man who destroyed capitalism and neutron Jack, who, you know, his job was to lay people off in a lot of ways to make business more efficient. Like you see it everywhere, yet people continue to believe it's not going to happen to me. Yeah. And that's the answer. I still hear it to this day. You know, the first calls I get from somebody who's been eliminated, especially if they've been in a company for 12 or 13 years. So what there's a phenomenon that happens? Number one, I tell them you didn't see it coming because you really weren't looking and you weren't looking because you were programmed to just keep believing no matter what you saw around you. Everybody else is going to be impacted, but I'm really overdelivering here. So I'm going to outperform. I'm going to outdeliver, you know, outdeliver everything. And you still wind up outside the company and in transition. So it really was that idea that it's going to happen to everybody else. But I am performing so well and giving them so much of my time and effort that I'm going to be safe and secure. I see a little bit less of that. But the real I didn't see it coming is I said, if you are in a company and all of a sudden you see this was back before COVID and you see people walking through the offices with dark suits and they look like bankers, then you probably are about to be disrupted and you should be paying attention to that. Right. So it's it's really people now I'm reprogramming the idea of just keep your head down, be in that little cocoon. I'm getting them to pick their head up and look around and see, oh, there are some signals here that maybe something should be happening. Let me share something really quick that I think will be a good example for your listeners. When I did my TED Talk, there was after the talk, I did a lunch in sort of table moderating and I had 10 people at my table and they happened to all be from Home Depot while I'm in Atlanta. So that's not a surprise. But I said to each of them, I went around and asked them what their roles were. And each one of them, I said, well, listening to you, all of you are in retail. Now, again, this was 2018. So prior to the pandemic and I said, well, what do you know about your e-commerce side of your company? And they kind of looked at me like, I don't know, why would we know about that? We're on the retail side. Right. And then I said, OK, well, it's kind of interesting because the retail side was growing by, I think it was over 20, 22 percent. And the e-commerce side was growing by that much. And the retail side was only growing by about 5 percent. You know, I shared that with them and I said, did it occur to you that perhaps there's great opportunities over on the e-commerce side and perhaps Home Depot will do less investing in the side that's growing by 5 percent. And they were like, gee, I never thought of it. They didn't know anybody on the e-commerce side. So there was right underneath their nose. I said, have you looked at the postings? There must be postings for positions. And they said, no, hadn't paid any attention. And then, of course, we get to the pandemic. And I don't know what's happened to those people that I was talking to. But I imagine they got disrupted because during the 2020, I think Home Depot's business went 80 percent e-commerce and it's still very, very high. Right. So even when it's right in front of them inside their own company and there's that transition, they didn't connect the dots. That's a great example. We talk about people that get disrupted because a company makes a change or they get laid off or they, you know, something happens. But with a great resignation, we're starting to see people make that choice because they're burnt out. You know, there's there's when the choice is made for you. And then there's burnout, which is now an epidemic. It seems that, you know, two years of staring at a Zoom screen is sort of taking its toll. And the narrative that I struggle with, and you did a great post about this, it was, I think, a McKinsey article that the narrative is it's the individual who's burning out. There's very little about the organization that's causing it. Tell me what you're seeing. I can imagine a number of people coming to you now are maybe just burnt out and saying, hey, I know things need to change. I'm not as much worried about being laid off. I just can't do this anymore. Yeah, it's it's really bad. And it isn't the end of it. I mean, the individual is burning out because the organization is on fire and it's on fire because, first of all, they give lip service to adjusting to oh, it's COVID and I know it's hard. You're working from home. But then they're taking advantage of it by setting conference calls up or calls up at seven in the morning because you're not commuting, right? So the walk and talk don't match. That's number one. Number two, they're just there's less people. They're expecting less people to do more. That trend has been going on and on and on and sort of for some how got taken advantage of in the pandemic. Number three, if you were a micromanaging manager, a poor manager, leader and a micromanager before COVID, COVID just brought out the worst in that personality because now I can't see you. I don't know what you're doing. I want to see those fingers on that keys. So there's a lot of the burnout is sort of that over lording that happens from weaker managers who are overreacting, right? So all of those things have really led to it. And they do come to me for sure, you know, with burnout. As a matter of fact, I have a program for onboarding. And and here's what I find people that come to me, recognize my work and sign up for a year long program. And I call it from onboard to bulletproof to take them from not seeing it coming to being proactive, owning their career, becoming the CEO of their career. And one of the two books that I demand them to read, number one is Atomic Habits, because I have to change the habits that got them into that mindset, right? And change the habits and have them recognize it. And the other one is A Minute to Think by Juliette Funt. And I have them read that one because it is such a primer on don't let this company break into your boundaries. And yet many of them go back and even though they know better, that's why it's a year long program, because they start going back to what they were adapted to its programming, right? So they are coming to me with that. And more importantly, when they go back to work, I think there's a heightened awareness that I see this starting. Those are my program anyways, because I'm reminding them, shaking them and saying, look, it's happening again. Don't let it happen. Yeah, I think one of the things I've seen and I talked to lots of people and they try to make it a millennial thing or Gen Z thing. But a lot of people are pushing back into the way companies have tried to make them work and pushed on their boundaries. And they're saying, hey, you know, I'm just not going to do that. I'm just not going to miss my kids birthday. I'm just not going to be on the road 80 percent of the time. I'm not going to drive in debilitating traffic, but then they don't replace that time with other things. And I think there's a really interesting thing about boundaries. And that's great advice. I get hundreds of emails from people asking how to gain control and people think it's easy and instant. You know, I'm kind of on my own journey and I create content, hopefully to inspire people to think, but it hasn't been easy. You have a four phase system to help people think of this and bulletproof their career. I'd like to touch on each of them. And if you could give a specific example that helps somebody understand, you know, how to use each of these and how to think of them. And so let's just go down the fourth. That's OK. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love to. So I start with clarity or clarify, so clarify the chaos around you. So when I'm initially starting to coach somebody, I tell them, look, clarity gives you power. And before you can take one action towards updating a resume, working on a LinkedIn, thinking about what you're going to target for your next career, you have to have clarity about what you're really looking for. And I was when you were talking our last soundbite discussion here, one of the clarity questions, I have a questionnaire that they fill out that helps them get to that. And we use it throughout the coaching time, getting clarity on what's what are non-negotiables? Like, I don't want to travel more than 30 percent. And I have to tell you that I have not gotten any questionnaires back from anybody in the many years that I've been using it, that anybody wanted to travel, you know, more than 30 percent. It's usually 30 percent or below or no travel. So they're really thinking it through. Now, my coaching is to get them to adhere to that, right? But they need clarity in everything that they do as they seek their job. They need it in the interview process, because I borrow a statement from. I can't remember who said this. I apologize. Whoever said this, if you're listening, I wish I could give you credit. But it's how you do anything is how you do everything, right? So I teach them to have real clarity on what's going on in that interview process, because that's what's going to go on once you land. You know, if the tour isn't good, the actual event isn't going to be good. So getting that clarity, clarity in terms of when they land in their new role about how those boundaries will be set and also immediate clarity on, OK, this is great. Now, what will I do next? Because this is going to be a two to three year gig, right? So everything starts with clarity, and that's a big part. The next is eliminate. And one of the big things we have to eliminate first is doubt. So we have to eliminate the doubt that they're they're usually really in such shock and their mindset has really been impacted by if they've been let go and sitting there going. But I did everything right. And here I am. So it's a lot. Anna, I was just saying, it's really interesting how people and I'm guilty of this, too. I was very guilty of this. Look for validation from the company. Totally. A lot of their self work. Yeah, you put a lot of their self worth in like, hey, if this manager doesn't like me or doesn't like my work, then my self worth, you know, it's one person, one company and one point of time. But the impact that that has on people is huge. But when I say this program, because that person holds your destiny, you have a bad day and you think, well, that's going to show up on my review and then this is going to happen and that's going to happen, right? And you're so, you know, because there's been layoffs all around people, they think, OK, not me. This is what I'm going to do to fix it. So eliminating doubt, eliminating activities that don't get the job done in terms of a job search. So the second stage is eliminating all of those things that are going to distract them and get them making sure that keeping the main thing, the main thing, both in the job search and when they land. But we have to start with the confidence and the doubt. Now, when they go back to the office, the first thing that hits is imposter syndrome, which is another mindset issue. And then we have to eliminate that. So all along the way, we're finding things that are speed bumps along the journey and just knocking those out. And then getting them to prioritize that's phase two. So it's clarify, eliminate and prioritize. So then we work on prioritizing what they should be doing for their search. And it's different for different people. If you have been out of the workforce for two years or you were home from COVID, whatever, you missed a couple of years, then part of your strategy would not be it wouldn't be good spending a lot of time knocking on recruiters doors because their clients want somebody who's currently doing or most recently done exactly what they want done. So that's not a good. Let's prioritize something different, which is your networking and all of that. Right. So prioritizing when they're in search and then prioritization once they land, prioritizing themselves, prioritizing the activities that they need to stay bulletproof and making sure that it's on their schedule, what gets scheduled, gets done. Let's have it on there and making sure that they have those priorities straight. And then the last phase is acceleration. When we talk about prioritizing, there's this quote. I think it's attributed to Bill Gates is we overestimate what we can accomplish in a day and we underestimate what we can accomplish in a lifetime. For me, I have learned through time and trial and experimentation that if each day I do one percent, just one percent towards a goal, right, whatever my goal is, it's amazing how that compounds and compound interest is something we I think we learned all in freshman year or something like that. But when you think of time and priorities, people, I think, feel under threat. Or if I don't if I don't get a job today, then and they don't realize the compound interest of investing in themselves. And that could be, look, meditation could help you unlock your next job because it could help give you the clarity. Like it's not just updating your resume and how many did you send out? You know, no, it's never that. Right. I mean, I won't let anybody even work on the resume until I know that we've got their mindset at a. I have a scale of one to 10 and I've got to get it up to a seven or eight before they're even ready to talk about a resume. Right. And the new client or if you're talking about the gig economy, even gain new clients, take on new clients. If you don't know where you want to go and there's great advice. One of my bosses who was president of a division over Microsoft to me goes. Look out for years because that's as far as you can see. I would I would even argue now it's about two years. But your your goals should be about two years out and get clarity around that. Yeah, totally. In the prioritizing first, we work on the mindset, self-esteem, all of those things that we've just talked about. And then because when you have a good mindset and you really know your value, then it's much harder for people to steal your time. You know that they're stealing it as opposed to without that, you're sort of giving it away. Like and you're right about one of the big things is they lose their identity when they're first in transition. It's you know, they don't know how to introduce themselves because they always said I'm the vice president of and now they have to figure out a new introduction. Right. So that prioritization, it comes on a day to day basis to your point. That's why I have my my clients in my program read the atomic habits, because that's the whole point of that is a little bit better all the time adds up. But it also comes with, I think, the number one thing that I start to work on. And it takes a long time. It takes that's why it's a full year program is prioritizing themselves and their own future and loyal to them themselves and their future and people who count on them. That's so hard to do because I was talking to an executive that I admire and has had a pretty interesting career and they took a nap the other day. Yeah. And they felt guilty about it. Right. And this is a person who'd spent their entire life, you know, working really hard, you know, you've traveling around, giving it all up. And one day during the week, they took a nap. I don't know why that stuck with me as something that was odd, that investing in themselves or taking a rest or was somehow they felt guilty. Yeah. And that's one of the things I make people eliminate, eliminate that guilt. Like you should be investing yourself. You know, in my Ted talk and in my book, I talk about the company is only going to invest in you for things that are going to help them. It's funny, we're talking about meditation. I asked them to have a morning routine, an evening routine. I don't care what it is, but it has to have some quiet time. I recommend journaling and meditation and things that make them go inside because they spend way too much time in their head and not enough time in their heart. And then they wonder why they kind of get really confused. Right. So that's that's very important. And all of that comes into that. And then lastly, as I start is accelerating. And it's once you have clarity and you've got rid of the doubt and you prioritize, then you can really get rid of all those speed bumps. You can really accelerate your career, your career into the next career. I agree. I think two years is about as far as you can be looking out, maybe three cautiously, right? Accelerating your financial security because, you know, you go into a company, oh, they have this great 401k match. That's really great. But if every time it's two or three years and you're back in transition and you go through your savings, you go through your your investment savings, you go through your my ideas. If you get a severance, I want you to be able to put that severance in the bank and use it for your vacation because you've already got your next gig lined up and you're ready to be ready. So I just want to accelerate every aspect of their life after we get through the program. So that's those are the four phases. There's a lot to them and sometimes we'll get clarity in one area. Then once they land, that'll go back and get clarity about, you know, the boundaries and their new jobs. So it's it's circular. The clarity thing resonates with me because the number one thing I ask people when they come for mentoring advice is what do you want? Yeah. And that's a really hard question to answer. What do you want? And it takes you through a very personal thing of how you want to live deliberately. You know, what are your boundaries from a professional standpoint and how are you going to stick to those so you don't end up in the same place that that you may not be happy to be. And yeah, I think to clarify what you want or how you want to live. And I think it's become really acute, which has actually been, I think, one of the benefits of the pandemic is people are really starting to ask themselves that question. You know, they as they've seen hardship and sickness and death and a lot of things that are that are real. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. It could not agree more. What's one piece of advice that you would leave with everyone who were post pandemic? We're entering into 2022, the summer of 2022, where it seems like everybody's on a plane and actually taking some time off. But what's one piece of advice that you'd leave with people over the next two years? Yeah, so I want to back up. I promise I'll answer that, but I also want to back up because you mentioned something. And I think we've just been through the graduation season and then kids are heading off to college. And one piece of advice I've been giving my clients is if you go to a graduation, if you're talking to a graduate or your own kids, stop asking them, what do you want to be when you grow up? What's what job, you know, so you graduate, what job are you looking for? Ask them, what do you want your life to be? Just build a concept of the picture of what you want your life to be. I want to live in the city. I want to live in the suburbs. I want to do this. I want to do that and then build the career that that feeds that instead of doing the career and then trying to figure out what you can do with that career that will feed a life. Do it the other way around. So that's one of my biggest for young people just getting started. What's the one piece of advice you'd leave with the audience? My mantra is you must fundamentally change your relationship to your career because corporate America already did years ago. They just didn't send out a memo. So when you can absorb that and say, OK, my the fundamental change is not to believe that doing more and doing better is going to protect me and really taking complete ownership and putting behind you the belief that that organization is going to take care of you in any way, shape or form. And then getting the tools and learning what to do to do something with that. But if you don't fundamentally change your relationship with your career, you're doomed. That's number one. And tied to that is fundamentally changing your relationship to time. That's why I recommend a minute to think because if you don't if I can't get you to change your relationship to your time, then it's going to be very difficult for you to get out from under the bad habits of overworking, overdelivering and fundamentally change your relationship to your career. Yeah, and like we were talking about earlier, if there's one book that has just come out that we recommend reading, it's The Man Who Destroyed Capitalism, the Jack Welsh story, which I think which I think speaks to your point like that. They just didn't write a memo, but things did change. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, Pat. I'm Cindy and I have a question. What should I be when I grow up? Sydney, here's what I would ask you to do. It's great to look at what people are doing and think, oh, maybe I want to be a fireman. Maybe I want to be a nurse. Well, maybe I want to be a doctor. But I would actually rather have you look around at people and say, hmm, what kind of life do I want to have as I grow up? Do I want to live in a city and take a subway? Do I want to live by the beach? Do I want to travel? Really think about what would be the most fun life that you could create. And once you have that figured out, then you can step back and say, now, what career would I have that would enable me to do that? And that's the best way I think to move forward. Knowing my daughter, I'm going to imagine that she would say I want to do cartoons or be a professional Mario Kart player. Pat, that's amazing advice. Thank you so much. I want to recommend the book Bulletproof your career, secure your financial future and do fulfilling work on your own terms for life. If you want to learn more about Pat and her work, you can go to bulletproofyourcareer.com. And I believe that you're still offering a free strategy session to anyone who's looking to get unstuck or get on a journey where they have more control. Absolutely. Pat, thank you so much for your time and all of your work. And I wish you the best. And I look forward to continuing to follow the wonderful content you're putting out as I continue on my journey of trying to bulletproof my career and do fulfilling work on my own terms. Awesome. It's been really incredible. I've really found a kindred spirit, so it was great to be on this. Thank you so much for inviting me. And I hope this adds value to your audience. Thank you, Pat. I take care.
