I can make a sketch of something that I wanted and somebody can design on the computer, print to 3D, then they can refine it. It's an incredible tool. However, something about the process of carving something by hand. Hi, welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm your host, Mirav Ozzeri, and this is a podcast all about jobs and careers. Today, we're talking about what it actually takes to build a jewelry business. from learning the craft to figuring out how to sell and make money from it. I'm joined by jewelry designer Serena von Rensselaer, who shares how she got started, how the business really works, and what it's like landing a collaboration with a film like Flow. So here is Serena. I'm so happy you came to the show. Thank you. My pleasure. I'm happy to be here. And let's hear about the business and job of a jeweler. And how did you learn the craft? so when I was in college I took a year off and I lived in Mexico in a town called San Miguel Dayande and I went to a school there an art school and I happened to take silversmithing class and fell in love with it so when I came back to the states and I went to school to Northern Arizona University and worked with a metalsmith teacher there. So ever since then you are doing jewelry? Ever since then I've been doing jewelry, yes. It took me a while to become brave enough to sell it for my work. How did you get your first sale? My first couple sales were people that had seen my work. I think I did some shows at friends' houses. And then I moved, when I finished college, I moved to the Virgin Islands, worked in a gallery there and opened up a small gallery with two other artists. And so that's when I really started selling my work. Before then, it was just a piece here and there, but I had a shop in St. John. And so I learned the business of creating work, selling work. How do you decide how to price your piece? That's such a good question. It really depends on the cost of materials, the time that goes into it. I think when I was doing one-of-a-kind pieces, maybe it was easier. Now I work with a caster. So it's cheaper now because you work with a caster? It's cheaper now, although silver and gold prices have gone crazy. You strictly work with silver and gold. And gemstones. And gemstones. Where do you get your ideas from? It seems like it's... I looked on your website. Yes. It's influenced by stories, by nature. That's right. How do you get your ideas? Oh my gosh. I think when I was first, when I first embarked on this journey, it was all, I was all inspired by nature when I lived in the islands. When I moved back to New York, I did a collection inspired by the architecture in New York. Whenever I see something that hits me or strikes me or touches my heart, I'll start sketching. And I did a collaboration with Little Prince. I'm going on my sixth year with that, which is amazing. And I'm so honored to be doing that. And then I'm embarking on a collection launching in a couple weeks with the Oscar winning animated movie Flow. Yes, I want to ask you about that. Yes. But first tell me, your pieces are selling, I saw a lot of pieces for $250. If it's a gold piece or it's a silver piece, your profit is very little, right? If it's a silver piece, the profit is, usually I have two prices because I sell wholesale and retail. I have wholesale shops that I've connected. I do a show in New York called New York Now, a wholesale show. So I've got wholesale accounts where I don't make as much money. But it's worth it for my business. Yes, I have minimum order and it's worth it for my business to be in places that I can't get to. Retail prices, like what my website, is more of a profit. However, it's really hard. Like I was mentioning, the silver and gold prices are crazy. I don't make gold pieces to have in stock anymore. It's too expensive. I can't afford to. Silver pieces, I've had to raise my prices, which is sad to have to do, but I have to. So a lot of jewelry designers have their work made overseas. Like China? Yeah, China or Indonesia or Thailand or, and that's amazing. There's nothing wrong with that. That's amazing. However, I can't compete with prices. It's a whole nother part of my business that I've been trying to share with the world, share with my account, share with my customers, because everything of mine is made in the States. So because of that, like you said, you looked at my website and saw probably average price is probably two to 300 for any of my silver pieces. If I had those pieces made overseas, I could drop. How much do you think you can drop it if you did it in China Less than half probably However the quality and I worked really hard to establish a wonderful team around me that I trust that I respect that I have a great relationship with and I like to keep it in the States The other thing about my work is all the models are hand-carved, nothing's made on the computer. And that's something that it's hard but beautiful to convey in these days when everything is made by AI or computer. And again, there's room for that. Oh, 3D printing. 3D design. Yeah, 3D printing. You didn't get into it yet? No, no. In fact, my partner hand carves all my designs. How did you learn how to source your material? Where do you buy gold? Where do you buy silver? Right now, silver and gold, my caster gets it for me because I have my pieces cast now. I have my designs cast. When I do one-of-a-kind pieces, I buy it directly from companies either in New York or there's some online companies that I buy silver and gold from. in terms of chains and clasps and findings. I have a handful of companies that I've been buying from for almost 30 years that I'm comfortable with. One of the things I like about the trade shows, by the way, is I connect with other jewelry designers. We share information. It's really important that it's a communal. I'm so not one that is in competition with other designers. I like meeting them. I like sharing ideas. I like it all coming together for the greater good. So over the years, I've met really wonderful people, particularly women that I've become close to that we've shared contacts with. And I designed a collection, you might have seen it on my website, with a designer from India who's very talented. And that's the one collection of mine that is made in India. We've designed it together and we've brought our creative forces together to make this collection work from the other side of the world. so that's i really like the idea of community of partnership walk me through the process you have an idea you sketch it and then what i have an idea i sketch it if it's something like with the flow pieces yes the new flow pieces all of those pieces are hand carved in wax the model is hand carved in wax by my partner who's super talented we take that wax piece we have a model we cast it from wax into silver have a model made of that then we make a mold and then we can cast 10 20 100 1000 once we have that mold flow for people they don't know is an animated film critically acclaimed yes how did you get a gig like that to do for flow so i feel very honored because the peep the licensing company that works with flow contacted me because they saw my little prince collection Where did they see it? And they, I guess online, they found my website or they did a search for Little Prince licensees. So they found me and they actually called me and sent me an email. To be honest, I didn't, I wasn't really familiar with the movie. I didn't, I saw the email and I showed it to my son Aziz actually. And I was like, look at this email. Do you, what do you think of this? It was like three days after I got the email and Aziz was like, mom, call them now. This is so great. This is so huge. So then of course I saw the movie and fell in love with the movie. But yeah, they found me from my Little Prince collection. And they asked you for how many pieces for the collection? They, right now we're starting with six, actually seven pendants, which of all the main animal characters, one and two different poses. And then we have a collection of 10 rings and that's what we'll launch with. So they will sell it and you will get royalty? No. So they'll sell it and I sell it and I pay a license fee to them. Oh, like a small percentage of what sells, but they're very involved with helping me market it, which is wonderful. Did they pay you in advance something? No, with these, this is what these, no, Little Prince didn't either. When you have a license, I've learned a lot about this aspect of my business. You don't, everything, all production, everything is on me. And I do custom packaging. however once things start to sell it's usually about like with flow 10 percent of anything i sell whether they sell it whether i sell it whether it's wholesale retail whatever goes for my licensing fee so 90 i keep but you still keep the rights to the image correct yes oh and i have a signed contract and they have to approve everything but you're happy about this collaboration i'm very happy yeah so that's yes the little prince by the way was that a collaboration with them oh i didn't know that was also yes so that was and that was something i sought after because i love the book and i had actually designed a collection when i was in my 20s in a sketchbook but i shelved it because i didn't know how to do it legally and then a designer friend of mine during covid i was showing the designs to him and he was like you have to do this so he found the licensing company I connected with them and it all happened It was actually one of those COVID magical things So what do you say is more profitable Direct sales to customers like come to the gallery or wholesale or collaboration with big names like friends, stuff like that? I think it ebbs and flows. Right now, for me, probably direct to consumer through my website is the most profitable. However, something like wholesale, I can reach more of an audience and it's more volume. Do you sell directly to stores also? I do. And how does this go? You go from store to store and try to sell your stuff? I should do more of that. I try to do that. But most of the stores I've connected with at a wholesale market called New York Now. But there's no like agency that you can hook up with that will do the promotion and marketing for you? There is. They usually take a percentage. I considered actually I did start working with somebody when I first did the Little Prince collaboration but I just didn't think it was profitable for me because on top of 15% commission that reps usually take I had to give a percentage to Little Prince and it just felt but it is something I should look into I'm always looking for ideas for help with marketing or getting my work out there because it's a it's pretty much a one-person business here that and I wear very many hats. So to succeed in this business, what's more important, knowing the technical side of it, the great designs, or to know about business? That's a hard question because there's so many ways to go about being a jeweler or a jewelry designer. There are so many different paths to take. As a business, I think it's important to incorporate wholesale as well as retail or direct to consumer to widen your audience. A social presence, maintaining a website, that is extremely important. You have to be prepared to wear so many hats. And also, I think one of the biggest things, and people said this to me way when I first started this journey, is you just have to be prepared to get a lot of rejection before you make headway. Yeah, I hear it a lot from entrepreneurs and from people in creative jobs. But I want to know, what would you say is the biggest challenge or expense that most people don't think about? The biggest expense for me right now is the wholesale show that I do. It's very expensive to do, but it's worth it for my business. You have to have a booth? Yes. What does it cost to a show like this? It goes up every year, but this year I think it's $4,200 for a 5x10 booth. But it's worth it because you make connections. Yeah, but it's expensive. And then as far as a surprise, shipping, especially overseas over the years, I think it used to be easier, but it is surprisingly expensive and surprisingly challenging. Two pieces I've shipped overseas have been lost the last couple of years. One of them found its way back to me. But I think shipping has become difficult, expensive and unpredictable. do people come to you and they want you to design a special piece for them they do what was the craziest request that you got when i lived in the islands somebody had me make a four ring with his name was h-e-r-b and it was like a huge it would cost a fortune to make this now it was a huge silver four four rings and four rings yeah but it was like a wet it was so heavy I felt I don't hurt anybody with this and then I made a tiara I made a tiara for somebody's wedding a feather a gorgeous feather tiara also in the islands and that started to be on a whole path of making these really couture feather pieces oh cool which has been the most successful line for You have the live line and you have the moon, which is beautiful. Oh, thank you. That's brand new. Which is the most successful line? Gosh, again, it kind of ebbs and flows. I think that some of the natural pieces, nature-inspired jewelry, that maybe consistently has sold the most lately. And Little Prince goes in and out. It's interesting. Before holiday or before graduation, I get more Little Prince sales. Does it sell better? in Europe than here? Actually, it does on my website. Yes. Yes, because Little Prince is well known. You're right. Yeah, I think so too. It does. I sell on my website overseas, which can be challenging with shipping. And then the pieces you referenced, the moon pieces, it's a pretty new collection that's been selling well. So I'm very grateful. Do you see any trend in the industry now? I feel like it changes often. Now it seems like when I go to the shows, I'm always looking around at what new designers are doing. Seems like a larger, like hoop. I don't know if it's like 70s or 80s. That kind of thing seems to be coming back Is silver more popular than gold now Silver is probably more popular than gold just because gold is so expensive I think gemstones are very popular now. I think people like to add color to their designs. I think the meaning of gemstones brings a whole other beautiful offering to a jewelry piece. What's your favorite gemstone to work with? You said you're working with some. Yeah, probably moonstone or turquoise are my favorites right now, but they change. If somebody want to start today as a jewelry designer, what would be the first step they need to take? Jewelry design classes, either starts taking jewelry design classes or fabricating jewelry classes, carving whatever aspect of the business they're interested in. And they can start it as a side hustle, right? If somebody can afford to do it, like in terms of producing the line, marketing it, getting it on social media, getting a website going. If somebody can afford to hire help to do that, or they have a lot of motivation to do it as a side hustle, I think it's possible. What would be the minimum investment that they need? They're going to have to connect with a model maker or designer that can make the collection. that would be the biggest expense getting that initial collection going and then connecting with a casting company casting house that can produce it so those two things finding 3d designer or hand carved and the casting company to execute it that's the biggest expense when you say casting company can you send them just a design on paper you can a lot of casting companies will especially now if you send a casting company design and say I want to execute this as a small version as earrings a large version as a necklace they have they now have CAD designers 3D designers they can do that in-house and get a model it's changed so much over the years since I started because like what I'm old so when I started there was no cell phones there was no computers there was some people had them but not really everything was made by hand there weren't 3d printers so like my partner who hand carves everything in wax there was a lot of people doing that now nobody's doing that he's one of not so many which i think is which i think is sad i like old school i like things that are handmade hand carved hand created so the industries change dramatically because of that because like we were just saying you could i can make a sketch of something that i wanted and somebody can design on the computer print to 3d then they can refine it and that's incredible it's an incredible tool it's amazing what can be done however something about the process of carving something by hand it's the artisanship yes and so like the collaborations I've done with little prints and flow all the models are carved Aurelio curves them all by hand then we hand finish them but not that many people do that anymore so that's changed. What do you like to work with the most silver or gold? Gold is luscious to work with if I could both of them and I do miss when I first started doing my jewelry work like I said I was making everything by hand I was soldering forging that I miss and that I probably love the most like sitting down with a piece of metal and some gems and maybe some sketches, maybe not. And just seeing where the creative journey takes me that I love. And I haven't done that so much lately because I'm more on the design side of things, but hopefully I'll get back to fabricating more of my own work. Right. What is the biggest reward in your business? When somebody buys like a little prince piece and then writes me a note saying how meaningful it is to hold something. I remember somebody telling me once that I translated the book of the little prince into jewelry like beautifully that I was able to make and it meant so much to me so I think just when somebody gets a piece and shares their feeling about it or I see them at a show and they respond to something or something when somebody else's heart is touched by what I make yes yeah I can see that it's beyond All right. Thank you so much for sharing your whole experience with us. Thank you. That's it for today. And if this made you curious about creative careers, head to howmuchcanimake.info and check out the creative career category. You'll find more episodes where people break down what they actually do, how they got in, what the pay is like, and you can make educated decision if you want to try it or not. So go to howmuchcanimake.info. And until then, I'll see you next week.
