The 10 Most Misused Stars in Hollywood and the Gnarly Magic of ‘Send Help’

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture A Conversation show about sending help to some of the best movie stars around. I see what you did there. Thank you. Today on the show we're talking about two late January genre movies. the AI courtroom drama crime thriller Mercy starring Chris Pratt and the survivalist workplace satire Send Help starring Rachel McAdams. Which movie star do you think we'll be sending help to on this episode? They show two very different potential futures for movies, so we dig into both of those. Send Help has also inspired an exercise. It's built around McAdams, and we love Rachel McAdams. We do. And there's not enough movies with Rachel McAdams, and I'm trying to figure out why that is. I have some theories. I'm sure you do as well. But we're going to talk about the other movie stars that have been around and with us for some time who are misused, underutilized, not identified and supported properly. Are you excited about that exercise? I am. Listen, Rachel McAdams, be in more movies. Yeah. Before we get into that, we need to talk about a couple of quick things in the news. Okay. First thing is, first big Sundance acquisition happened. It's called The Invite. I mentioned this to you earlier on the show. I got a lot of texts about this movie when it screened over the weekend at Sundance. 10 plus million dollars. A24 picked it up. Olivia Wilde, who is the director of this movie, which is an adaptation of a Spanish film, said she wanted to be in movie theaters. What do you think about that? Pro movie theaters. Yeah, me too. Seth Rogen, Olivia Wilde, Edward Norton, and Penelope Cruz. Premise of the movie is there's a couple that's having some trouble in their relationship. I believe it's Seth and Olivia's characters. And they get invited to Swinger's Party hosted by Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz. I'm in. I was in. This is romantic comedy adjacent. Movies where people have sex is how we can talk about sex is a way to reframe it. One of these days you're going to see porn. It's going to be huge for you. It's going to change everything. One of these days. Until that day, you can keep looking for it in rom-coms. This is the burgeoning rom-coms and romances and heated rivalry, I guess. This is the thing. You like to watch people have their eyeballs scooped out. I do. And I like to watch people dance around sex for a while. Yeah. So this was on my two-watch list, and it turns out that Olivia Wilde has her mojo back after... Well, we'll see if she does. We'll see. I guess that's true. This has been a fascinating reconstruction period, I would say, that Olivia Wilde and the aftermath of Don't Worry Darling, some of the controversy around that movie, and also just the general ineffectiveness of that movie, ultimately, which we talked about years ago when it was released. She kind of went quiet for a year or so, had a lot of personal stuff. and then last year she had a very funny cameo on the studio yeah which is i assume you know how she and seth rogan connected there and this movie is an interesting one it was supposed to be originally amy adams paul rudd and tessa thompson and maybe another actor in that fourth spot and they changed filmmakers jonathan dayton and valerie ferris who made little miss sunshine we're gonna make it olivia wilde comes in she gets this movie off the ground she also is co-starring in i want your sex which is the new gregoraki movie opposite cooper hoffman which got less good reviews out of Sundance. I haven't seen either of these movies yet. And she's apparently appearing in Tony Gilroy's Behemoth, which is just getting underway in production. So the wild moment is back upon us. Do you like Olivia Wilde? I'm open to it. I don't think I'm against. I think that I did not think there were a lot of thoughts in Don't Worry Darling. Booksmart is fun. I like Booksmart. Yeah, it was fine. And, you know, who wouldn't date Harry Styles? so that seems fine with me. I probably wouldn't if I had a choice. Nothing against him. I don't know a single Harry Styles song. You're too good for him, but Zoe Kravitz isn't. Is Zoe Kravitz eating Harry Styles? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always learn something new on this show. Do you also know that Harry Styles was in St. Peter's Square when the new Pope was announced? To bring it back to Harry Styles is basically conclave adjacent. Got it, yes. Both Harry and I, I think, are finding God this year. That's been an interesting theme. Many people are saying he was in Rome getting the haircut and then just ran on down. That's beautiful. Yeah. And then he was just like photographed in the car. I think he's, does he just say, let me through. I'm Harry Styles. Like, how does that work? No, I, he told the story. He said everyone, including the, like my hairdresser was like, oh, they're saying Habemus Papamus, which is what you say when there's a new Pope, there's a new Pope. Habemus Papamus. I think so. I think I have the lab right on that. And then he's like, so I just ran down and wandered with people. He's like, I just followed the crowds. How nice. I just happened to be nearby. Do you think Harry Styles should act more? That was Eternals, right? That was the end of Eternals? Well, he had that run of Eternals, My Policeman, legendary film that everyone's seen. I have seen that one. And Don't Worry Darling. My Policeman is different than Mr. Policeman. We gave you all the clues, right? Yes, that is the Harry Hole movie, The Snowman. Is that it? I think so. that sounds right. Is it pronounced the snowman? Mr. policeman, we gave you all the... That was a fun film on the internet. We were innocent. He was my favorite part of Eternals, I think. He was in 12 seconds of Eternals. You know, again. Good enough. Did you see the photos, speaking of Eternals and Barry Keoghan, of the Beatles guys? No. The poor actors in Beatles. Oh, let's do it now. Beatles guys. This is a screenshot situation. I don't think they're even high-res photography. Beatles photos. Beatles movie photos. I thought I saw them this morning. Where is it? I don't even know where I saw it. News, Beatles, movies, photos. First look. Okay, Daily Mail. I'm sorry to give the Daily Mail some. Oh, okay. This is huge in real time. Barry Keegan is Ringo Starr. They're doing the get back. He looks good. Yeah, he looks good. Frankly, this polka dot and cravat look I'm into. Okay, I'm still scrolling. Okay, so this is a photograph of photos laid on a table. Not unlike this one. I'd like to state for the record, I did not take this photograph. Laugh, Sony, do not sue me for infringement of anything. No one can see anything. You're looking at your laptop. Well, I know, but I'm describing it, and I'm just saying, okay. That would even make for a better case of fair use. Yeah, there you go. So that is that guy as George Harrison, I guess. That guy? Yeah, Joseph Quinn. That was his name. It was taking me a minute. Sorry. I can't even see Paul Meskel, and I can see Harris Dickinson is wearing glasses and has long hair. I'm open. This is scintillating commentary. I'm open to it. How do you feel? I got a little excited. Yeah. I got a little excited. Of course it is. Why we're diseased. Because this is going to be the worst thing that ever happened to us and it's not coming out until 2028. I think that's right. And we'll be dead? No, no. I'll be alive and I will be potting somewhere about four consecutive four simultaneously released Beatles or is this one per week? I think it's one per week. It's a month of the Beatles. It's April. That's what they've told us. I love the Beatles. Me too. I really do. So it's interesting that only Barry Keoghan and Joseph Quinn get the close up on these and that they're, do you think they're holding Paul Meskel and Harris Dickinson back because they don't have the looks nailed or because they know that, you know, John and Paul are like the leaders in the clubhouse. Are they trying to build anticipation. I don't think a photograph of a photo that has been posted online is necessarily a coherent marketing rollout. Well, I think that you're wrong. Okay. You think this is a coherent marketing rollout? Well, I don't know if it's coherent, but I think choices have been made. Maybe. Things do leak. Okay. I guess so. You'd probably want to put your best foot forward with this project. I suspect it's very expensive. I'm looking at the composition of the photos and it's just like those two get the close-ups. You're like Susan Sontag really digging in here. This is incredible. This is the kind of content that you can expect in 2028 in April as we lose our minds in front of the camera. I mean, I like the Beatles and I really like biopics despite all biopics as evidence to the contrary. Could be a disaster. Could be great. I reserve the right to love it. Okay. let's stay in the British Isles for a minute. The BAFTA nominations. Just some quick takeaways from this. So they were announced on Tuesday, shortly after our episode went up. And, you know, not a ton of surprises, but a couple of key moments that I think will close the loop on some of those discussions we were having earlier this week. First off, one battle after another 14 nominations, the most of any film. Sinners had 13, the all-time record. Before I wrote that down, did you have any idea what it would have been? Did you even look at it? Do you know? I do know because I have this right ahead of me. I mean, it's a just really classic fact. Jack, do you have the doc open? Can you guess? Sorry, I was messaging Kate Hallowell. Sorry, hi, Kate Hallowell. Also, I think this film was released before you were born. Yes. Oh, Gandhi. Wow. There we go. Wow. 16 nominations for Gandhi. Checks out. Yeah. So additionally, no Delroy Lindo. Yeah. Which we talked about whether when we Masako and Delroy Lindo would be recognized here because they were shortlisted when we Masako got in. Delroy Lindo did not. Right. As an Oscar nerd, this is very interesting to me. Okay. This is a very rare circumstance in which an actor has not gotten CCAs, robes, SAG, or BAFTA nominations and has an Oscar nomination. In recent history, this had me thinking about two nominations. One, a lot of people are saying Andrea Risborough because of the, that campaign in the, which we discussed in the kind of, the sort of behind the scenes relationship building that was necessary for that. But what it really reminds me of is Keith Stanfield. When he came in as a supporting actor in 2022 for his work in Judas and the Black Messiah, that was kind of an odd year where that film qualified, even though it came out later in the cycle. I think it was like a February movie and then got a, got an April Oscar nomination, right? Wasn't it something along those lines? Yes. Because of COVID. Yeah. And that was interesting. And he was a first time nominee and he was sharing that category with Daniel Kaluuya, who went on to win that year. And so that was kind of an odd, but it was a recognition of Stanfield, who had kind of been rising in Hollywood at that time, a lot of admiration for him. It's a really good performance in that movie. And then I also thought about Penelope Cruz getting nominated for Parallel Mothers, the Almodovar film, which also got no recognition in any of the other bodies, I think, aside from a couple of the European awards. This is pretty rare for something like this to happen. I do think a lot of it is that Lindo was very well-liked inside the industry, he never nominated as a way to kind of acknowledge his work by this particular group of voters. Any other thoughts about that? Yeah, it reads me both as support for Delroy Lindo and also that Sinners is very strong with the Academy. And, you know, I know I was on this podcast saying like Sinners is very strong, but I still think it'll be one battle. But this is the kind of thing where you see, you know, if the Sinners' strength like led Delroy Lindo to a nomination at the Oscars and then the fact that it couldn't get him at the Baptist, it just kind of means that Academy voters, or at least Academy nominees, are very into that movie. Yeah, I agree with you. Which is good. You'd think the opposite if it got it in a Baptist. You'd be like, oh, it really has a chance at Oscar. It's not really the point. I mean, we would be remiss if we didn't mention that the Baptist in particular have an interesting relationship to Black performers. That's true. Which is that they're often not nominated. Yes. So in that sense, I don't know whether it suggests like strength at the Academy or just that BAFTAs, despite their ever-changing roles, still have some of the same issues. Yes. But, you know, it's great that he got an Oscar nomination. I agree with you. A big surprise to me was no Amy Madigan in supporting actress here. Yeah. But like, does Field of Dreams matter to British people? You know, like seriously. Oh, so you think it's related to just maybe her not having the same standing amongst the British voters? That's really interesting. I guess I didn't think about it that way. I have been picking Amy Madigan through most of this season and thinking she has a chance to win because it is a very, it feels like a very classic kind of Oscar win where the more seasoned person who has a strong contingent of voting. In the immediate aftermath of this news, I saw a lot of people saying, well, either Tiana Taylor is locked or maybe Inga Ibsdott or Lilius, who's gotten in in a lot of places, is very strong here. I'm a little more dubious of that. she's competing against her one of her co-stars in the category i think so as well but it's it this is an interesting race there's some interesting races now and i thought i thought it was all over with the shouting yeah it's not that's not quite the case no and especially for the acting i think sag will be interesting but not necessarily definitive because not everybody's in this like the pools are different at all the different precursors so you're just kind of guessing Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to, neither of these awards, the actor awards or the Baptists are not going to be predictive per se, but they're going to tell us more. Yeah. So the season has some new juice. I'm excited about that. A couple of other quick things. Kate Hudson is in here, which is fascinating. Not a British performer. Amanda Seyfried never stood a chance. Paul Meskel, Chase Infinity, and Yorgos Lanthimos are all in in their respective categories. And the thing is that some of these categories have six nominees. And so that six nominee often will reveal to you who is in sixth place if they were nominated here. So you get the impression Paul Meskel probably in sixth place in his race. Jesse Plemons possibly in sixth place in his race. Chase Infinity probably in sixth place. Yorgos probably not. Like Guillermo del Toro missed the shortlist for the BAFTAs. It's kind of fascinating. And then Yorgos got nominated here. So a little bit of a wrinkle there, which makes it kind of interesting. Wagner Mora also missed the shortlist. So he's not nominated here. I don't know what that means for his Oscar chances, if anything. Might not be good. i don't think it's great but it is still also confusing i mean not being in baftis and not being at sag together just means that he missed some of like the promo juice yeah uh and i do think that that matters a bit however once again international voters and specifically brazil are very powerful so you know and and people like that movie and people like vagnar mora yeah how do you feel about the Brazilians bombing all of our social media all the time whenever we mention his name? I feel like that means we made it. Yeah, I agree. That is it. I know that when the people of Brazil are paying attention and come to Brazil commenting in our comments, here we are. I would like to go to Brazil. I've been once. It was beautiful. I'd love to go back. I've not been. I've not been to South America. I'd love to visit. It was on my list in 2020. I know. I was doing the continents with Knox last night and which ones I've been to and which ones I haven't. I'm three for six, not counting Antarctica. Only been to two. It's tough. One last thing. Well, there are two things. Because you didn't put I swear on here, but that's what we texted about. I was going to say that there were two titles that you might have seen a lot in this BAFTA list that you are not seeing really at any other awards. The first is The Ballad of Wallace Island, which came out all the way last spring. and I think I mentioned for like five minutes on one episode. It's very charming. A very charming movie starring Carey Mulligan about a former indie folk duo who are invited by a very eccentric person to come perform on an island called Wallace Island. It's Tim Key. He's one of the writers of the movie. He's very funny. The reason to see the movie. Carey Mulligan's great, but let's be real, she's a supporting actor. And she's nominated at the Baptist in supporting performance. She's good, though. I mean, Carol Mulligan's great. I think he is really funny in this movie. And sets the tone of the whole movie. Yes, and it was a little overlooked here. So it's cool that it's getting some love overseas in its native country. And then I Swear, which is a movie we haven't seen, has not opened in America, in fairness to us. It opens in March, I believe. All right. And is a drama about a man with Tourette's syndrome and his family and his life. But it's just one of those BAFTA things where it's just like, these crazy Brits. They got their own stuff. And more power to them. And they're going to hit that Baptist bump in March. Absolutely. I guess. We should see it. Yeah, sure. If they make it available to us, we'll see it. We're lowly Americans. We don't have access. It's being distributed by Sony Pictures Classics in the U.S. Yes. Makes sense. Hello, old friend. Would you like to get into Mercy? Sure. I can't believe we waited this long. Okay, we'll get into it momentarily. Okay, we're going to talk about Mercy first. This is a new film from Amazon MGM. It's directed by... Yeah, I know because the ring cameras are featured prominently. Yeah, well, we should talk about some of the cross-provo happening in there. So, Timur Bek Mambetov is the director of this film. This is not his first film that is screen-focused. It stars Chris Pratt, Rebecca Ferguson, Callie Reese, Annabelle Wallace, Chris Sullivan, and Kylie Rogers. The logline of the film is as follows. in the near future. An advanced AI judge tells a captive detective that he's on trial for the murder of his wife. If he fails to prove his innocence within 90 minutes, he'll be executed on the spot. Now, I want to just start by saying, this movie has one innovation that I am interested in. Okay. And that I want to affirm when it comes to a dumpuary thriller. Okay. So you're leading with the... This is my one positive about the movie. go ahead this movie has a countdown clock so you know exactly when it's going to be over and that is just a damn good idea and the countdown clock is almost exactly correlated to the runtime of the film the film's like 96 minutes 97 minutes the countdown clock is 90 minutes yeah you see it often in the film we have a clear awareness of when we're getting into the second act into the third act which is a great relief to me because i needed this movie to be over very quickly because it's not very good. Yeah. I guess the other thing that you could say, and maybe we could save at the end for a compliment sandwich, is that it was 96 minutes. It is. Yeah. It is. It lived up to the billing, the same billing that this police officer who was on trial for murdering his wife was stuck under. So did you like it? Was it your favorite movie? No. This is an evil movie. It is. But I want to be clear. it's not just evil, you know, intellectually, morally, and politically, but also structurally and aesthetically, you know, at which at some points you have to hand it its accomplishment, which is that it gets all five categories. It's ugly, mean, and immoral. How exciting. So here's the problem, right? There are a variety of problems. I mean, there are so many problems. There's a critical problem. There's like a deep problem at the center of the movie. So the movie is about AI, right? And it's about how AI can be used as this like all knowing determinative justice machine, which is an idea that we've seen before. Right. Like Minority Report explores this idea of what if we use technology to better make like better control criminal activity in the world? And then what would that do to the society that uses that technology? It assumes an AI judge that is connected to a municipal network can analyze data and video. Yeah. And then determine whether or not someone is guilty or innocent of a crime. It's the municipal cloud. So I told you not to trust the cloud. Right. Okay. I'm sure they have none of your information anywhere, despite being on various social media. The movie, you know, I think thinks it's well-intentioned by trying to show you how absurd this premise is by undermining the value of this system in the movie. In the movie, Rebecca Ferguson represents the AI. She is an AI judge. She's not a real person in the film, of course. She's just a kind of digital manifestation of this code of justice. And then the movie, of course, like goes through and it is revealed like no shit. Chris Pratt didn't kill his wife. And the whole film is about a quest to figure out whether, you know, who did it and who's responsible. And he has to be a detective while strapped to a chair. And so it shows the kind of the fallacy of the AI and the way that we're relying upon it. But the movie is empathetic to the AI. Yeah, it becomes like a buddy cop, but like a buddy routine. And it is Chris Pratt and Rebecca Ferguson as the AI judge learning about the world and solving the case together. And then the AI takes on like human qualities or emotions as it, quote, learns them from Chris Pratt in order to support and protect him and help solve the case and, quote, unquote, serve justice. so yeah the movie throughout it valorizes using quote unquote gut instinct and that Chris Pratt is wronged and that he you know what he brings as a human is irreplaceable it's straight up money ball it's incredibly hard data analysis versus tape grinders versus the eye test that's what this is all about then Rebecca Ferguson's AI judge also comes to see that we have to value humanity or or learning no that's what we have to value is learning can we reenact can we reenact the literally the last line of you can reenact it right now okay so chris pratt says and this is how the film ends human or ai we all make mistakes and we learn. And then, no, no, no. And then this is in the lobby of one of the criminal court buildings in Los Angeles. It kind of looks like where I had to report to jury duty, so at least... Set in Los Angeles. Yeah. But then Rebecca Ferguson appears on sort of like, you know, an ad screen overlooking the lobby, which is not technology they have available. Truly Orwellian moment. Yes. And she says, yes, we do. And then the movie ends. we all make mistakes and we learn because that's you know we're all learning machines I want to talk to you about Chris Pratt and Rebecca Ferguson and the action or lack thereof in the film I want to get into all of that but let's talk about the actual messaging of the movie sure do you think there is anything purposefully insidious at work where the people that are putting this movie out into the world are trying to kind of wash our acceptance of AI and our use of AI and indicate that it is a kind of softer utility and that, say, a megacorporation like Amazon might be interested in its utility to the world. Yes, and they're also trying to wash the surveillance state, which is presented as the municipal cloud is also the means by which Chris Pratt's character is found, quote-unquote, immediately guilty and only has, like, nine minutes to prove himself. But then it's all of the surveillance footage and the, like, hidden cameras that prove his innocence and like they really really use that ring footage a lot they do um and the ring camera footage is what ultimately helps save him and and prove his innocence so they're like no see maybe you do actually just want to tape everything and upload everything it's not all bad So, yes, I do believe that there was massaging to make sure that both AI and really all tech services are not portrayed as 100% evil. And I'm sure that that was a note that was given in one way or another. It certainly feels like it. Yeah. And that's pretty ugly. And it's not above a company that has an interest. in a certain kind of technology or product to, you know, Coca-Cola being a product placement when Columbia is owned by the broader corporation. It's not shocking, right? That's the sort of thing that's happened over Hollywood history. At this moment in time, it seems like a pretty ugly coincidence, and so it's hard to watch the movie and just not be thinking about that. Well, here's the other thing is that in addition to it being morally gross, Yeah. It's obvious and incoherent because you're watching the movie and anybody with half a brain is sitting there thinking, okay, so you're telling me that AI is the reason that he's about to wrongly die, like be executed. And the ultimate resolution of this film is that the AI program is like, is bad. But no, actually, I mean, it's. But they can help too. But they can help too. Sometimes humans are bad, too. Yeah, because in the final presentation, the person who is ultimately responsible for the crime gets something valuable from technology as well. You know, that he, too, is kind of saved by something. Right. Which is just like. And then also they throw the black woman cop under the bus as well, which was just like. A crazy choice. When they did this, I can't believe that this made it through notes. I know. And her, you know, covering up, her cover up is meant to imply that like humans make mistakes too, just like AI. And then like we all learn. Makes you want to die. But you are sitting there watching it and thinking, well, like this doesn't make sense. You're contradicting yourself within the framework of this propaganda that you are making. Like this is not effective. I totally agree with you. It really wounds the movie. And generally speaking, like I like movies like this. I like kind of January thrillers that are basically souped-up Charles Bronson movies, and Chris Pratt has a gun and is wrongly accused and needs to solve a crime. Alfred Hitchcock made tons of movies like this. It's not that aspect of it. It's actually what is really underneath it, what's kind of undergirding it from a structural perspective that is very, very ugly. And I was thinking a bit while watching the movie, because it is the kind of a movie that affords some extra brain time. I was thinking if you removed the AI, like, whitewashing from it, and it were still Chris Pratt trying to prove his innocence using screens, and you honestly even executed it a lot of the same ways. Now, I thought this looked pretty bad in a number of different ways, but I probably still would have watched it and not been that mad. No, you make a great point. And I kind of like this exploration of new cinema. Like there have been movies in the last 10 years, unfriended, searching, host, missing screen movies that show. I mean, a lot of people spend a lot of their time on screens. It's not unfamiliar. Now, it's not inherently cinematic. And in order to do it well, I think searching does it very well. It's hard to do it well, though, and make it compelling for 90 minutes. And most of these movies end up being 90 minutes because you only want to look at a screen for so long. The weird thing about it is. Chris Pratt being trapped in a chair. is almost like an active metaphor for how you feel watching the movie. And that's not a good feeling. You don't want to have to reflect on that. He's literally strapped in. Barefoot. Yeah. Why? I don't know. I don't know. Why can't the man have shoes? Spoiler alert when they release him and then he like running through the bowels of the fake justice I guess the idea is like barefoot maybe they didn want him to hang himself in his cell with his shoelaces I agree I agree. I don't know. So is this a TSA thing? Like it's just got liquids in there. What's going on? I mean, there are a lot of, there are a lot of specific choices. Yeah. Hilarious. Because the movie is not like searching or unfriended. We're kind of like being on the computer is the point of the movie that like, You need to be on the computer to solve the crime. This is a movie where there is a lot of action, but that action is portrayed during searches or during chase sequences on grainy drone cameras or on cell phone cameras. So even though the movie has a reported $60 million budget, it kind of looks like shit on purpose. Yeah. Like it just looks like it was shot with a phone, a really nice phone maybe. But you're kind of flashing these series of screens. It's like the opening three minutes of a Mission Impossible movie for 96 minutes. That's not a movie. Like, that's not a good idea for a movie. It's not a good idea. There's a specific chase sequence where a truck is racing through Los Angeles that if it were Michael Bay, it would be the coolest sequence of the year for action filmmaking. In this movie, you're like, we're watching it on TV. Like we're using and they are folding in like local news and, you know, surveillance footage and all sorts of stuff. I was like, if this is a clever way to make inexpensive footage usable, then I guess, you know, or AI footage or, you know, computer generated non-AI footage, like, fine. But it does seem like they tried to film some of it badly. They shot it practically. Practically, and then made it look bad. And also, like, you can just, like, you can see the truck breaking sometimes. It's really, we don't have our A-team stunt drivers on this. No, no. This movie is a mess. Yeah, it's really not very good. I want to talk about Chris Pratt. Okay. We're going to talk about Rachel McAdams later, and I feel that they hold a somewhat similar arc, even though their experiences have been radically different, which is that 15 years ago, you might have said, really, two of the most exciting early 30s performers that we have. Right. Chris Pratt probably best known for launching out of Parks and Recreation. He played Andy where he was incredibly funny and charming on that show. I love that show. And he has spent almost the entirety of his career as a movie star not doing what I thought he was going to do. What I thought he was going to do was he was going to take gigs as B minus Harrison Ford, as Star-Lord and the Guardians movies, as the dinosaur tamer in Jurassic World and use those to like then make more interesting things. Right. Like most movie stars in the last 20 years have used their kind of franchise power and wealth to then fund slightly more interesting projects. Can we ask you? Yes. What was it about Chris Pratt that made you think that he would be doing more interesting things? I'll tell you. I'll tell you exactly what it was. One, he's married to Anna Faris. Yeah. And I was like, they're cool. That was just a cool couple. She's great. She's really funny. Two, he was on a sitcom that was run by Mike Schur starring Amy Poehler. Yeah. Seems like a cool guy. He had great chemistry with Aubrey Plaza. That show was good. I completely agree, but that's what we had. And then he starts doing, sure. I'll tell you what. I mean, Guardians of the Galaxy is good. You can't tell me otherwise. And he's good as Star-Lord. Yeah, he's funny. So that was enough for me to be like, okay, he got jacked. Right. He wants to be an action star. I get it. These are good choices. Star-Lord especially, that was a really good choice. He's a good fit for James Gunn's writing style. And so I think it was reasonable to assume. Like, he's about to have kind of an interesting career. Right. And he actually, like, only now wants to be, like, Jason Statham minus the martial arts. Like, he's like, I hold a gun. I'm really angry in everything I do. Or solemn. Yeah. And the world is in a lot of trouble and only I can save it. That's such a boring persona for a star. And I think he's been very successful. And I know there's been a lot of reporting about, you know, he's a person of faith. And he seems like... He and Honor Farris divorced. They divorced, yes. Now he's married to a Schwarzenegger. Yeah, it's a... I know a lot has changed in his personal life. I'm not really denigrating that. Like, you can still make good movies. He really just doesn't make any good movies. And then, as you pointed out, the only other thing he does. He's Garfield. He's Super Mario. Yes. He voices cartoon characters. Yes. Which is fine. That's also something a lot of actors do, but it's not interesting. No. And he doesn't do anything interesting. Now, I know CR loves the Terminalist. Haven't seen it. It's another Amazon series in which he's a guy holding a gun. I think he's in the CIA in that series. Not totally sure. Do you have a Terminalist? So that's a list of people who I'm going to kill? I think so. I don't know. I think so. Oh, interesting. Now that's a good episode. Now they're, we're trying to figure out what we're going to do next Friday. Next Friday, the deadest release day of the year. And we're like, I'm not totally sure what our episode should be, but maybe it's Amanda's terminal list. You just list the 10 people you intend to kill before you die. It does exist in the back of my head in one way or another. Am I on the list? He's a Navy SEAL. No, you're okay. A Navy SEAL. You're for now. Okay. For now. The thing about the terminal list is that the names are fixed, but the number of people aren't. So once you get on, you can't get off. But anyone can be added on. You've reminded me of one of the most wonderful scenes in Billy Madison, which is when Billy Madison is going through school again, he's reflecting on his time as maybe a bully when he was a younger person, and he calls up someone he bullied, played by Steve Buscemi, and he apologizes for the way that he acted, and Buscemi accepts his apology, and then as soon as they hang up, Buscemi pulls out a list of names, and he crosses Billy Madison off the list. So, yeah, I would never do that. You would never do that. Once you're on, you're on for life. Yeah. I really thought I was a really a vengeful person with a long memory, but you put me to shame. No, like out of everyone you know, including like our bosses, I think I probably. You're near the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. There's no forgiveness. Why is that? well i just because i can't i can't be carrying around like all the stuff you know sure at some point i just need to put it in a box like you're dead you're done okay and it's over okay and now i can just go live my life and we're not going to reopen this like i don't need apologies i don't need whatever your inability to forgive one of the most fascinating things about you it's honestly remarkable it deserves it deserves more more study but we don't have time for that right now Rebecca Ferguson, I'm sorry, my queen, but we got to call you out on this. This is no bueno. I was thinking about what it could have funded. A chalet somewhere, somewhere nice. I hope so. I mean, it's definitely more than kitchen renovation at this point. And I am sympathetic to the fact that they killed her off in Mission Impossible, so that paycheck is gone. House of Dynamite didn't really come through with the awards bump that she was looking for. you do wonder where there is a world where they thought okay we'll do like house of dynamite for prestige and mercy for i thought she was wonderful play with the bride yeah exactly and then it'll you know we'll just like have a really big january and february 2026 and listen that doesn't happen i hope she was paid a lot i don't think that there's enough that you can be paid well on the one hand easiest job of all time right you yeah you're purposefully meant to act stiffly you are just in front of a camera and not with any other humans and you're playing AI and it probably took you two to three days to shoot the film. I mean, it is glorified voice acting. Yes. On the flip side, you're playing AI in a screen movie opposite Chris Pratt that's getting released on January 23rd. Right. It's not what you want. You should, you should, you gotta know this is not good. You know, I love her, obviously. Most people I know love her. She's got a big year coming up here. She's in the Peaky Blinders movie. She's in Dune Part 3, of course, and she's in a movie called The Magic Faraway Tree, which is not a book I'm familiar with, but a fantasy adventure book written by Ben Greger. Hope she's happy. Yeah, Dune Part 3. Yeah, she's Lady Jessica. She's like we saw an old guy who needs mother. She's been on the series Silo, which I've never seen on Apple. Silo's ad on the Apple TV home screen made my son burst into tears. and then run into the other room and then say, why is that man doing that? So. Interesting. Yeah, we won't be watching it. Okay. You think they're paying her? Apple is paying her very handsomely, I would assume. I hope so. Yeah, so she's doing fine. This movie is not acceptable to me. It was number one at the box office last weekend. Almost certainly will not be this coming weekend. Yeah, no. Feels like it'll be on Amazon pretty quickly, which is where it belongs. It actually felt like a streaming movie. You know, it didn't feel, even though it has Chris Pratt, It just felt like a streaming movie. And usually the opposite. I feel the opposite where I'm watching a streaming movie and I'm like, why is this not in theaters? This makes no sense. Yeah. This was one where I was like, I'm in a theater with two other people on a Tuesday night. The screen on the screen on the screen of it all probably will look less bad. And well, it's more in its native environment. It'll work fine on television. Yeah. You don't really need to show out to support this one. Sometimes it's good to have just like an absolute dead fish. Yeah. Like sometimes just to be like, do not do this when you're making a movie. They really didn't think through. I thought that this was pretty insulting to the recovery community, as well as the unhoused people of Los Angeles. They bring in all of these hot and button issues. The script's awful. And, like, it's not even a good, like, mystery. No, you're right. The case is not... It's like it's insensitive to somebody going through AA. It's insensitive to somebody having a difficulty in their marriage. It's just, like, it's really weird. The whole thing is just kind of a mess. And it's like, would it be a good Law & Order episode? Yeah. It's really... And also, it seems... I guess the point is that AI is like really bad at solving crimes, but it's very easy detective work. I had one like kind of it's not a nit to pick. It's something that jumped out to me. So in the film, Chris Pratt's wife, who's played by Annabelle Wallace, is having an affair. Yeah. And she's communicating with the person she's having an affair with. Yeah. Via a burner phone that is not connected to the municipal cloud. Right. Is that like easy to acquire a phone like that? If it is, why wouldn't everybody just get those phones? Why would you want to be connected to the municipal cloud? I mean, this is what I'm saying to everyone all the time. Don't upload your material to the cloud. I agree. So you're only using burners? No, though I did realize when I was watching The Rip, in my mind, burners are still flip phones. Like, it had never occurred to me that you could just get, like, a burner iPhone, you know? So now you will. I guess I will. Okay. Good to know. No, I have two more nitpicks. Great. Well, so what's up with this like hovercraft, like single motorcycle situation that the, are we using those? Is that? I think this is supposed to be near future. What is going on? So it was a floating jet ski that the cops are on? Pretty cool. No, that looked really silly. You don't want one of those? I thought that I would have been embarrassed if I were. I stand on hovering exactly where I stood when Back to the Future 2 came out, which is give it to me now. Like I want it. I want to use it. I want it in my life. It seems obvious that there's like a technology we should be able to conquer. It is like if they made Vespas ugly and then they could float. Like, there is no way that you could ever pull that off. Okay. And like, I try not to step in and be like, no, that's not a good look for you. Do what makes you happy. You do that? Yeah, you wouldn't believe it. But I don't think I'm good conscience. I don't think you do it all. Could let you go on the floating Vespa. Like you, that just doesn't work for you. You're referring to me personally? Well, what if I had it souped up? Like what if I got exhibit to come in and pimp my ride? Like that would be, that would be interesting. You know, get some flames on the side or get like a purple Cadillac Elvis style look. Here's the number two thing. What about me floating in a purple Cadillac with no wheels? Who says no to that? I've been watching a lot of Star Wars movies lately and they're all in speeders with no wheels. Those speeders fucking rock. They're just flat underneath. So my issue is a little bit with like the jet ski motorcycle quality of it. You don't want handles. So if you want a car. Yeah, no handles. Nothing astride. How does the wheel situation work when you don't have wheels on your car? Where you have a steering wheel and it just shifts you in directions? I feel like the. I don't know. That's like an airplane question. Maybe that's what it does. Oh, interesting. You don't know? Yeah. Well, it doesn't exist. You don't know. Okay, here's the other thing I want to bring up. This is vital information. This is an important conversation. You know what? if they had explored this in the movie, maybe we, it would have held our attention more. The other thing is that, so the, the man with whom Annabelle Wallace's character is having an affair. Yes. Is like the chef de cuisine at the Lowe's Hollywood. Yes. And then it's like assaulted at the Lowe's Hollywood. And there is a climate, there is like a dramatic battle, uh, between the woman on the motor, on the flat floating jet ski. And she lands the jet ski on the Lowe's Hollywood. helicopter pad and then they fight on the rooftop and i just want to say that's a really big look for the lowe's hollywood and congratulations have you been there yeah i haven't been there it's like a giant hotel right next to the mall where they have the oscars okay yeah i would not recommend mercy would you like to speak about send help yes okay so i want to make a quick note about this and kind of when we first started doing this show together i don't think i would have asked you to be on the send help episode i think i would have said you know what it's probably going to be a little gross you're not going to be that into it right you probably i wouldn't have imagined you would have been into drag me to hell yeah but in the almost 10 years yes that we've been going to see movies together you have been evolving now i want i want to i want to tip my cap sure thing uh i i had a when I saw the trailer for this movie, I was like, this would be fun to do with Amanda. That was my reaction. Despite knowing what Sam Raimi likes to do in his movies. But the Rachel McAdams and the tropical location of it all. But also, that the thriller elements and even some of the horror elements, I know that you're much more up for it, it feels like, now than you were five years ago. Fair to say? Yeah. I think it was also, I thought that I was going to, I thought that all of those things were scary. And then I realized that I just am sort of annoyed or disinterested in, but I don't get as freaked out. So now I'm more comfortable just going to this. I didn't I guess this was gross, but I was kind of amused by it. It's it's it's useful to talk about around the frame of the film. So this is the new film from Sam Raimi. It's one of the precious few original movies we've gotten from Raimi, who is plainly one of my favorite directors of all time. clearly one of the most influential directors of the last 50 years. Yeah. If you include the Evil Dead films, everything he did with Spider-Man, all of his genre work in the 90s and 2000s. And it's kind of reteams a lot of his longtime collaborators, Bill Pope, the cinematographer, Bob Murawski, the editor, Danny Elfman, the composer. And it does star Rachel McAdams and Dylan O'Brien and essentially just them. Yes. Because the frame of the movie is, is that McAdams plays Linda Little, who is mistreated by her sexist boss Bradley who is played by O'Brien whose father wanted him to promote her upon handing the company to him but he advises her to prove herself on a trip to Bangkok for a company merger and the situation changes when a plane crash during a storm strands them on a deserted island in a desperate fight for survival and then tensions of course between them rise so what did you think of this movie? well I turned to you as the lights went down and then this film started and then i said i have no idea what this film is about remember that's great so you didn't see a trailer you didn't read anything you know i i knew rachel mcadams was in it because you know billboard culture in los angeles has at least recognized that putting rachel mcadams in front of me will get my attention but that's and also i thought she looked very lovely at um the send help premiere okay and the person who came and did our hair for one of the shoots also did her hair for send help so good job oh right i forgot about that yeah so so that's what i was wearing my hair for the record they did your hair yeah that's true um that's right they were like seems good they looked at it they were like oh you did it yeah so but no i had no idea and i don't even think i knew that it was going to become cast away or a triangle of sadness for a while i thought it was just kind of like office place vengeance yes um which i was entertained by yeah it starts out as kind of swimming with sharks meets Working Girl. That's kind of the frame that it's using. And then it pivots pretty quickly to Cast Away meets A Perfect Getaway. Man, I just love this movie. This is so in my wheelhouse. This is exactly what I want from a January movie, a February movie, a June movie. The most competent artisans. A fun enough script that gives a filmmaker room to apply a lot of his signature moves. A great and known star who does not have enough opportunities like this and a rising star also given an opportunity to show what he can really do and Dylan O'Brien. It's so interesting that you can sometimes have more to say about a terrible movie than to say about a really fun and good movie because there's so much to pull apart about Mercy. But there's a lot to kind of dig into a send help to. So with Raimi, here's one of my big takeaways from this movie. And we're going to get a little bit into the plot of it. And so if you don't want it spoiled for you, I would recommend you fast forward about 15 minutes as we talk through the film. And then we'll talk about McAdams and underutilized stars. But his movies are almost always pretty mean spirited. Even the movies that have like a kind of winning feeling like the Spider-Man films where you've got a hero at the center of it. The heroes in quotation marks are often put through really trying circumstances. from Ash and the Evil Dead movies all the way through Alison Lohman and Drag Me to Help. They're very funny. They're very gross. In this movie, McAdams plays like a cat lady, right? Like a seemingly bird lady in her case. But like a single middle-aged spinster who likes her TV shows and reads books and thinks she's going to break the glass ceiling and tries really hard, but men take advantage of her right but and and she's also but she's made ugly it's not just that she's like well-meaning and the world is taking her apart i you know there's a whole bit about tuna fish but there's like she's little gross they they try as best they can to make rachel adams look dowdy which you know even in the moment you're like no no no no no like i it's very she's all that yeah i see i see the way that skirt is fitting and you know you can't you put glasses and a cardigan on Rachel McAdams. You're trying your best, but no. But yeah, sort of like a sad person. And the Dylan O'Brien character feels revulsion. And you're supposed to feel like pity, I think. But you're not supposed to feel like, oh, this is a person I want to spend all of my time with. That's right. And a lot of that is accomplished, I think, in some of the filmmaking choices where it's like, Raimi is very unafraid to show you something that is gross. And sometimes that means like blood splatter or vomit. And sometimes it just means some tuna fish on the corner of someone's mouth. And how uncomfortable something like that can make us when we're looking at it up close. And he shoots her so up close in those sequences. And shout out to her for feeling comfortable, seeming quite so gross. The two archetypes of the characters are really broad. Like, this is not a nuanced movie about the complexities of being a woman in the workplace. Like, it's actually kind of almost satirizing that satire. You know, it feels like like a very loose riff on something we've seen a bunch of times before, which is kind of fascinating. And then as the movie goes on, they crash land on this island, and their power dynamic shifts, obviously, because the Dylan O'Brien character is powerless because he becomes injured in the crash. She saves his life when they've washed ashore. And she becomes more powerful, and she likes having that power, and she's very comfortable on the island. And this is where the movie really got extremely interesting to me. Because Rachel McAdams and Rami are very comfortable making her increasingly unhinged. Yeah. And kind of ugly in a different way. And the fact that the movie isn't really too worried about, like, who are you rooting for here? Because they both do awful things to each other. I thought was just a great choice. and if the movie had been this sort of like pro forma, like now she has the upper hand and she will do what needs to be done and then she gets to go back to work and she gets that promotion and she is the champion of this movie, that would have been pretty bland. And this movie doesn't take that very obvious route. No, I mean, it's helped by the Rachel McAdams of it all and that you are rooting for this person so much. And I think the movie itself even veers a little bit towards like that pro-woman let's justice for women who have been treated poorly in an emotional scene where you get a little bit of backstory from her character and in the wrong hands that scene is quite bad. Did you think that scene worked? The campfire scene? I thought Rachel McAdams was so good and played the scene for what it was so honestly that I was willing to go along with it. And they make a smart decision, which is they let the character be all over the place. And that adds to what you're this kind of batty, like insane quality. Is there anything wrong with her? Is this a reliable narrator effectively? Exactly. But so because they allow so many different tonal moments in the character, you're able to take that on it, or I was able to take it on its face rather than taking it as like, okay, so here is the origin story and the trauma of the person that explains why I need to root for her and all these sorts of things. But I think that's really specific to the performance and to what they're using and to what Mick Adams brings to it. And if you don't have that kind of star, it doesn't work in the same way. I agree and I I like that they she's presented ultimately as like if not likable then someone who deserves love yeah but then by the end of the film you're like maybe she doesn't we like we don't know and it's like is this a product of the environment that she has been exposed to or is there something really nasty under the surface and the movie like leaving it kind of open to interpretation and then I think having a fairly like unflattering conclusion for everybody is I just think it's a great choice because it's something that he does in all of his movies like in a simple plan he does this he presents people who are like all these lower middle class people they find a bag of money gosh you know anything that they do is justifiable because the system that people operate under but then it's like ah right sometimes you make the wrong choice and that fucks you over really bad and then you make another choice that compounds that and that's your fault that's not somebody else's fault that's not the system's fault that's actually your fault as a person with free will and he's he's always getting in the mix of that you know in drag me to hell Alison Loma's character works at a bank. Nobody's forcing her to work at a bank. She works at a bank. Because she works at the bank, she gets a terrible spell cast against her and she has to suffer an evil fate. I really appreciate that he is, like, willing to go places that a lot of other filmmakers are not. I really appreciate what you said about McAdams, which is, like, very few actors that I think could pull off this dynamic of, like, is there something wrong with her? And if there is, is it just, like, a gentle version of something wrong with her? Right. versus something a little bit more malevolent or dangerous. And then Dylan O'Brien, similarly, who I think is really a skilled actor. He does get his kind of here's my trauma moment where he explains what's going on. Right. But the movie doesn't let him off the hook just for having that either, which I think is also a good choice where you might say, oh, well, he gets this scintilla of sympathy. But then they're like, yeah, but he's still kind of a piece of shit. Like, so he knows why he's a piece of shit, but he still is doing awful things and hurting people, which is fascinating. And maybe he's even using his trauma in the right circumstances to engender sympathy from people and take advantage of them. I think the nice thing about the movie, with the exception really of like those two short scenes, is that it doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling on the trauma or what the trauma has, you know, has engendered. Or do these people deserve love or not? I mean, you can ask yourself all of these questions, but the movie is more interested in attaching you to these people. And through like kind of a twin, they both have charisma that like really sits on the edge. And, you know, it's the Rachel McAdams, Regina George thing where it is it can be evil or it can be really charming and you can't trust it, but it still works. And so it draws you in and then you just kind of want to see what's going to happen and who is going to win. And at the end, there is like a kicker that makes you think a little bit about like, oh, like, who was I rooting for? And what was I? But it's it's not a morality play. And that's what's interesting about it is that you can the text can withstand these questions if you want to ask them. but you really just enjoy the fact, like, how are they going to, how are they going to want to one up each other? And how many times is the movie going to be able to turn it around as well? Which was another thing I appreciated was like, we thought we had gotten to the conclusion or I thought we had gotten to the conclusion, like at least five times. Yeah. And then I was like, Oh, another one. And Oh, now, now the tables have turned yet again. Yes. It's pretty effective at doing that. And there's one other idea in the movie that I think is kind of interesting that most movies would never touch for the 10-foot pole, although Triangle of Sadness does kind of touch this. And I would say Ruben Ostland is a filmmaker who's interested in this idea too, which is that these two people have kind of goals for themselves in terms of what success is, what contentment would be. And for Rachel McAdams, it's a couple of things. It's elevation in her career and maybe also getting on the show Survivor. She loves Survivor. One of the reasons why she's so good at surviving on this island is because she has read survival texts and she loves the show Survivor, so much show that she wants to go on, which I was very excited about. Yeah, no, you turned to me several times, as I am also not a Survivor person, and you were like, so they always do this on the first episode of Survivor, they build a shelter. Yes. You know? Which is, you know, I'll tell you, I've seen 48 seasons of Survivor, and I would not know how to build a shelter. I was going to ask, like, so, plane crash. Yeah. You land on an island. Like, what would you do? Like, what do you think you could do? I have an idea of how to make fire, but I've never tried. Okay. So, I would probably, I would gather the materials. Can we just cut that out of context? I have an idea of how to make fire but I never changed In a tropical setting were I to be shipwrecked and or cast on a CBS reality challenge program I mean I love Survivor of the Show We about to have season 50 Season 50 is a month away. I would probably gather materials for a shelter and think about how I watched strong people build them in the past. Would you know to do the palm leaf into the coconut shell as like a water funnel situation? That was a revelation. Yeah. I learned that. I feel like I learned that. That's not something that you see on Survivor. Oh, okay. That's not a, that was not a detail. I thought that was ingenious. Now, spearfishing is quite common. Okay. On Survivor. You usually have to win the materials. Okay. Like you have to win the spear, win the goggles, win the things that you need in order to do that. You know, that, that is paid off in the film as well. It is. I, I can't say I think I'd do well. Okay. I'm quite pale. Yeah. I think the sunburn would really kick my ass. Okay. and Dylan O'Brien is protected in many ways by the lovely like shelter hang space that Nick Adams's character has built but how do you think you would do you know what to do in a survival you don't know what to do in a survival scenario no not at all like you know I mean I live this every day right which is for the most part when something breaks I'm just like Zach come do this and it's really not the most empowered woman second wave thing about me I do think if he weren't there list that's very first wave that's but like sometimes he's out of town and it's like you know what i can disable the malfunctioning fire detector i got it's not here something has just dramatically changed in society in the last years which is that youtube happened and when youtube happened fixing things got so much easier yeah so that is true but i also like i do have common sense and i do think that like you know when things are tough like if i'm on the island i can probably figure out fire i've seen this movie i've seen other films i have watched you pull it together under tough times. Yeah. I've also seen you break. Yeah. You're sure you wouldn't break under the circumstances? No, I'd be fine. You're 100% sure. No food for 12 hours. How you doing? I do that all the time. That's called intermittent fasting. That yogurt that you like, you know, you can't. That's not achievable. No, I know, but like coconut yogurt. I mean, the thing is, is that I think I could. Coconut is very bad for your teeth. You got to be careful, right? We know that from Castaway. Okay. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Too sweet. That is true. Like a lot of sugar. Um, no, I think like I would know to go hide in the shade and not get sunburned. You know, like I, I could figure out the basic things. I don't know how evolved I could get in terms of food supply, building shelter. How would you do with a boar hunting? Uh, I thought that was really funny. Hilarious scene. Yeah. Not to spoil it. Um, I, then I was also thinking about like the, like 20 to 50 feral pigs or whatever throughout, which just to go back to what I was saying before, you know, her version of contentment is either going on that show or having success in her career. His version of contentment is marrying a really hot woman and taking over his dad's company and being a successful guy who golfs, right? Who can relate? I think that, I think it's really funny that Raimi is like, fuck that. Like trying to be happy is, its own trap. Like, don't even try. Like, nihilism reigns. That's kind of what it is in a lot of his movies. I mean, it's certainly in this one. It's just a very funny read, and because it's kind of a rollicking thriller romp, no one's going to be like, let's think about the morality of Send Help. That's not the point. But he does this in so many movies, and I just think it's a really fun signature that he goes to over and over again where, like, there's a slimy zombie ghost in the movie. There's a lot of vomiting all over somebody in the movie. You know, there's poison. There's, like, a gnarly extravagant set piece. There's a big plane crash. Yeah, it was the CGI. The effects could be a little bit better on that one, but like a very funny grace note on it. Yes, there's a good gag inside of the crash that is very effective. Anything else on Sunhelp you want to put your arms around before we pivot to McAdams? I really filmed sushi has really keeps making a big impact on me and I keep thinking a lot about it. decision to leave and then now the sushi platters that are used in this in this film stay with me um yes i was relieved that the uh reason for the sushi's beauty was clarified by the end of this film yes and because i was mystified and almost taken out of the movie by the beauty of what she presented in the film um mcadams yeah man she just tight and bright at 47 she just looks great she's beautiful she has the exact same charm that kind of she has a very interesting mixture she reminds me a lot of 30s kind of screwball comedians where you can't tell if she's the smartest person in the room or the dumbest person in the room she's usually the smartest but she has this ability to affect like oh oh whoops right yeah sorry you know like that's kind of her energy in a lot of movies she's so funny in game night kind of doing that she's very funny and what is the Donald Gleeson Richard Curtis movie is it about time that sounds right she had funny but also I've like wept through that movie that's a very manipulative movie yeah but she's very well utilized in this she they don't do the greatest job of making you think that she's dowdy by any means but she does get to have like a vah vah voom moment in the film as well it's that's part of that's part of the joke of the movie right like you're not supposed to watch this at any point and think oh yeah yeah that's like a really dowdy person you know it's Rachel McAdams in an oversized skirt. I wanted to ask you, what do you think, based on Letterboxd, are her most popular movies? The Notebook? The Notebook is number two. Okay, what's number one? Is it Midnight in Paris? Nope, that's number six. Okay. Let's see. Come on, you already mentioned it. What's her most popular movie that she's ever made? I already... Mean Girls. Oh, yeah, of course. Mean Girls, The Notebook, Midnight in Paris... What are three, four, five, seven, and eight? Okay. Well, let's see. I'm trying to think. She's been in so many movies. The movie that I always think from this period, I guess, I don't know if About Time makes it on Letterboxd. About Time is four. I doubt The Vow is on there, but I remember The Vow when they were really trying to make Rachel McAdams and Channing Tatum happen at the same time. And I think that's like about amnesia. Yes. And I don't, is it Nicholas Sparks or is it just Nicholas Sparks adjacent? um let's i'll tell you right now okay the vow is 2012 and it does not appear to be nicholas sparks okay but it's definitely so she has like some sort of uh the vow is number 20 brain wow okay let's see other rachel mcadams films there's two that you will not get okay because they're oh dr strange and dr strange blah blah blah in the multiverse of madness directed by sam raimi and i know that because when we saw the trailer for Doctor Strange 2 directed by Sam Raimi, she was in Flashback, and I said, oh, Rachel McAdams is in these movies, do you? You sure did. Just terribly underused in Doctor Strange. They didn't market it enough to me. I should have known, because I would have gone. That was a real like, you know, you had your star power forward sitting on the bench situation there. She just does not get enough to do in those movies. Game Night, Wedding Crashers, Both have to be on there. Game Night is on there. Actually, Wedding Crashers, fascinatingly, is number 13. Okay. Game Night is number 8. Because it's not PC. We're older, and so we put up the humor of the Wedding Crashers. It's not PC. Sorry. Sorry, Gen Alpha. Number 7 is a movie that I always forget that she's in. It's a Best Picture winner. Okay. Alright. Best Picture. Oh, Spotlight. spotlight. Yeah, she's so good in spotlight. She's also number nine is Sherlock Holmes. I always forget she's in that. And number 10 is a similar kind of movie to send help, which is Red Eye. Also a movie takes place on a plane. Very good movie. West Craven movie. She was in Are You There? Goddess Me, Margaret. She was terrific in that as the mother. Like she's a very, very good and established and working star. Yeah. But we don't think of her that way. I also forgot that she was in spotlight. Right. And then I looked at her lineup and I was like, oh, wow. So it's not as though she has gone away entirely. I think she's admired. She was in True Detective Season 3, I want to say. She's been a part of big franchises before. She's been in superhero movies. Yeah, but she's not one of the characters. That's the thing. She's not a hero in either of those big franchises. Then I was starting to think about her in the context of her generation. Her generation of actresses, McAdams is 47. Let's say Anyone between the ages of like roughly 36 to 50 is kind of her generation, right? For the purposes of this exercise. So you've got her two Mean Girls co-stars, right? You've got Lindsay Lohan and Amanda Seyfried. Amanda Seyfried, I don't know if anybody would have predicted after Mean Girls that she would turn out to be maybe the most visible and the most commercially viable simultaneously. Even though you have not seen Mamma Mia or Les Miserables. I haven't seen either of them. I don't know if I will. The singing has been a good venue, like avenue for her. I see. You know, they have the same number of Academy Award nominations, McAdams and Cypher. They both have one for supporting actress. Okay. And then let's go down the list a little bit. Yeah. Jessica Biel. Sure. Yeah. In 07, there was a decent chance she was going to be a star. What was that film called? Easy Virtue, where she plays like a flapper or something, Roaring Twenties. You didn't know about this? That was a fairly recent film, right? I don't think so. I definitely saw it at the Brooklyn Heights Cinema 2008. Yeah, I remember. I haven't seen that one. Okay. It doesn't work, despite Colin Firth and Kristen Scott Thomas also being in it. Okay, let's keep going through the generation. Jessica Alba. Yeah, well, she makes diapers now. She has an extraordinarily successful company called Honest. She still acts. I think she was on a Netflix show last year, but definitely doesn't seem to be the main focus of her career. Blake Lively. Back in the news. Once again, I frankly think the text messages are... like quite respectful. Got it. You stand with Blake Lively, just so I'm clear. More so when you're analyzing and I'm like, I've read them all. I don't know what to say. Like I'm a, I read everything, not them all, but everything that was aggregated. I'm not going through court filings. Do you have access to her phone? No, I don't. I just, I saw what was published and I would much rather get an email or a text from Blake Lively than from Ryan Reynolds. How about that? Is neither an option? Michelle Rodriguez. Yeah. Coming off of Girlfight right before she starts getting involved in the Fast and the Furious movies. Keira Knightley in the Year of Atonement. Yeah. Jennifer Hudson. Dreamgirls was 06. Amy Adams. Things have been, you know, we've had a downturn. Up and down. In Amy Adams industries in the last 10 years. Emily Blunt. Yeah. Devil Wears Prada was, was it 07 or 08? 2006. 2006. Zoe Deschanel. Yes. coming off of 500 Days of Summer, pre-New Girl. Zoe Saldana. Yes. Who is now the most box, like the biggest box office star. And an Oscar winner. Yeah. You could make the case that Zoe Saldana is the most successful person from this stretch of people. Although, Zoe Kravitz. Yeah. Catwoman, filmmaker in her own right now. Anne Hathaway. Yeah, six movies. Huge year for her. Kristen Stewart was on the younger end, but right leading up to the Twilight Saga and the aftermath of stuff like Panic Room. Katherine Heigl, who might have been the most successful person on this list in 2007. That's true. With Knocked Up. And now she does Poise Ads. Comes for a Saul. Kristen Bell. Sure. Forgetting Sarah Marshall and coming off Veronica Mars. Paula Patton. Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible, yeah. I think it was right around the time of Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible 3, right? Yeah. Scar Jo? This is before Black Widow. Is that who she was? Yeah, this is really in the prime of her Woody Allen era. This was Matchpoint and Scoop and all those films. Emma Stone debuts really in Superbad? Was it a debut right before Easy A? Easy A is 2010. I just learned last night that Easy A and The Town were released on the same day. So that was a recorded day for me. Wow. September 17th, 2010, I believe. Oh, that's pretty great. Rashida Jones Yeah Natalie Portman who had been around for a while But age wise We've just known her since she was 11 But age wise When did she start in the Star Wars prequels? 1999 Yeah so she's been working Yeah And Naomi Harris who had also been working for a while But really kind of starts to pop through here In the mid 2000s So that's 22 stars and Rachel McAdams. I think what I'm trying to reveal here is while many of these people still have careers, only about three or four of them I would describe as at the center of Hollywood, right? Like Anne Hathaway is still at the center of Hollywood. ScarJo, of course. Emma Stone. I mean, in movies, anyway. Zoe Saldana. Emily Blunt, maybe. Kristen Bell has, you know, moved to TV. She has. I think Emily Blunt like Oscar nomination last year, Oppenheimer, going to be in the Spielberg movie. So five stars. Five stars have truly emerged here. And some of these women have moved on other things. Some won Oscars and then now host talk shows. You know, like Jennifer Hudson's career arc from American Idol contestant. I think she finished in like third or fifth place in her year and then became an Oscar winner and then was a movie star for a hot minute and now is like a lifestyle person. The trajectories are fascinating. It's not totally unusual. There's a lot of history of this in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, where the way people are famous changes, right? Like, think of Jane Fonda, for example, how she was very different in the 80s than she was in the 70s as a star. But I would argue that some of these people don't necessarily deserve their fates either, that they were, like, misused or misunderstood as talents. Well, I mean, we organized this episode around the misused stars and Rachel McAdams. But the reality is, is that you could just make a list of like 45 women over 40 in Hollywood. And it is everyone. Hollywood still doesn't know what to do with women past a certain age. And we know this and it's talked about all the time. And every interview that a woman over 40 who acts gives says, well, then the roles dried up. But, you know, we just made a list of a particular generation. And this is the evidence of people don't really get the opportunities or women don't really get the opportunities unless they become a superhero. Yeah. Keira Knightley is the one who I find most interesting on this list because it's not like her career is over. Her career is doing fine. She's only 40 years old. She was just in a very popular Netflix movie, The Woman in Cabin 10, last year that was not very good. but a lot of people watched it and they were like oh kieran ellie i know her i like her but i mean here's her work in in recent years she was also the star of black doves the popular netflix tv show before that she was in boston strangler in 2023 it's a streaming movie we watched she's fine um she was in a british film called silent night she was in a film called an animated film called charlotte in 2021 okay in 2020 she's a movie called misbehavior like she's been having kids. She has a family. And that is part of it as well is that you don't want to be working as much or it's harder in that moment. And I'm not judging that. I think I'm more just pointing out that things don't always turn out the way that you might think. Like if you would watch Keira Knightley in the 2010s you might think this is the new Vanessa Redgrave. Right? Like she will be in consistently great work for 50 years or Charlotte Rampling or, you know, whatever British actress, you know, with like a very angular face. Yeah, right. But you know what I'm saying? Good taste. Yeah. Auteurs love to work with her. She can sell a movie. And things change. Things evolve. And everybody's experience is different, but it's kind of fascinating. So it had me thinking about this exercise, which is, you know, very personal and specific. But I wanted to talk about who are the other people who are kind of like misused or underutilized. Yeah. McAdams not hurting for work per se and has a unique set of skills she's kind of like John Wick you know she can like she can do a lot of different she can kill you in a lot of different ways not all these actors are like this but sometimes it's age and sometimes it's just misidentification and so like the first person that popped into my head when I was doing this was somebody who I mentioned earlier in the episode which was Lakeith Stanfield yeah who I feel like we we did put on one of our 35 under 35 lists a while ago and had had a number of interesting roles in a row most of which were supporting but not entirely and you know he was in Judas and the Black Messiah he was in obviously on Atlanta um he was in Get Out he headlined a couple of movies like The Heart of They Fall and The Book of Clarence that didn't really come off he was in Haunted Mansion which didn't really come off he started he's the lead in Sorry to Bother You um I know he's going to be in the next Boots Riley movie, I Love Boosters, which just got a trailer. But like, he's not, he's not a movie star. Yeah. And I don't, I think I don't totally know why. I think some of it is like the parts he picked. Some of it is maybe the way that Hollywood sees him. I don't know what to account for that, but it feels like someone needs to, someone great needs to come along and be like, I got you. You're going to be at the center of my movie. Right. And until that happens, he's going to continue to play second lead to Mark Wahlberg and play dirty on Amazon. Sure. Or, you know, he was supporting in both Roofman and Die My Love this year, which is a very classic, like, we like you, but we don't really know what to do with you. So people will be people who know will be excited when you show up for like a couple scenes in this like art house ish film that we're making and hoping people come to the theaters. And in both cases, they didn't. So that's another tricky thing. The Die My Love part is really weird. Yeah. That's a really weird part of that movie. that is maybe we didn't really explore it too much. I don't totally... Was that all a fantasy? I think so. Okay. Yeah. I think it's just not real. It's in her head. Got it. Okay. Good to know. In Roofman... Well, I think he's a person that exists. Like at the farmer's market. Got it. But she's just fantasizing about what could be. Exactly. Okay. Got it. Yeah. I think I want a little more for him. I think I want a slightly better movie. I think that's valid. What was the name of the Issa Rae romance that they made together? The photograph? Oh, yeah. Which was kind of interesting and like didn't quite get there. But I was like, I'd like to see him try to do some more things like this. He's very he's kind of similar to Rachel McAdams to me and that he's funny and can do comedy. But also you could believe him in a superhero movie. You could believe him in a serious drama. Yeah. OK, who's your number five? James McAvoy. I think I was looking at the 2007-2008 atonement, you're speaking of Keira Knightley and he had it all I guess he was a superhero because he was in the X-Men he was Professor X I'm trying not to follow too closely what's happening with the X-Men I'm just letting you share that with me I assume he'll be back you think so? but he hasn't been mentioned well we already know Patrick Stewart is going to be in it right, and so I think we're kind of just we're ignoring James McAvoy, who I think is wonderful. And then he just had like his M. Night Shyamalan run. Yes. And speak no evil where he's just like, and I think he's wonderful. And I, and I really liked that. And that just like kind of came and went. So he's another one where he's like Chris Pratt. He like got really swole and was like doing, and it seemed like his lane was going to be weird psychopath action stuff, which is funny and good for him, but he's also capable of emotions. Like he's very funny. He can sing the Bengals. Like, let's let's do more. I'm pro James McAvoy. What does he have coming? He's got a movie called Control directed by Robert Schwenke. That. Oh, no, it's an adaptation of a podcast. Oh, dear. A man has an implant in his brain, which issues him instructions. Julianne Moore is also in this. I mean. Slightly worrying. OK, slightly worrying. Did you know that he directed a film? I learned that last night when I was looking at his credits. I'll check it out, James McAvoy. It's called California Scheming. Yeah. Which is, I guess, a story about a Scottish faux-American rap pairing called Slibble and Brains. I don't know about that. I'm not being Scottish. Damn. This just ended up not really making any impact whatsoever. Well, I don't think it's been... Released in the U.S. Yeah, or in the U.K. It's scheduled to be released in the UK in April of this year. I spoke of the Book of Clarence. Yeah. The Stanfield movie. He plays Punchess Pilot in that movie. He was pretty good in it. Nobody saw the Book of Clarence. Right. This is my thing. Yeah. No, he's a really good pick. Okay. Where do I want to go with number four? Do this one. Because this, I mean, that's an obvious one. Yeah. Okay. So I want to talk about Angelina Jolie. Yeah. Because Angelina Jolie for a period of time was one of the five biggest movie stars in america now she may not have had the raft of box office hits but she was absolutely you could put just her on the poster of wanted or salt and then that's your movie salt was such a phenomenon that it's also like lost to time but her in that wig you know it seemed like it was gonna be we were all there we were seated for salt you know um like i mean and then everyone like leave Shrivers of that movie? It's Chiwetel Ejiofor, right? If I paid you a million dollars, could you tell me who directed Salt? Oh, I have... No, of course not. A very well-known filmmaker, Philip Noyce. Oh, yeah! Of course! The Australian director who's made plenty of good movies. Yeah, she played a CIA agent named Evelyn Salt, who was accused of being a Russian sleeper agent. God. Jack, you've seen Salt? No chance. Wow. Also a $110 million budget. Wild. How did it do with the box office. It makes $300 million. As we say, we used to live in the country. Like I said, it was a thing. This film was shot by Robert Elspeth and edited by John Gilroy. August Deal is her husband? Yeah. Listen, maybe I'm going to re-watch Salt tonight. Wow, it's exciting for you. As I recall, not a good film. I had fun. I'm going to just go through her most recent... Here's the problem with... I thought of her immediately when I thought of this exercise. Because I was like, this is someone who was... When she was on as an actress, was excellent and also was pretty good at just being a movie star. She was pretty good. She could hold a gun. She could be in a period drama. She could be sexy. She could be dark and weird. She had a lot. She had range, even though... And you just wanted to look at her. Yeah. Obviously, just one of the most striking people on Earth. The problem... The reason why I think this is a flawed pick is that I think she does control her own fate. I think she has more agency than the people that we're kind of aiming for here, where, like, she can still get a movie made, maybe not the same kind of movie that she could have gotten made 15 years ago, but she can still get something made. She was recently in the awards race with Maria last year, which is a movie that I liked and apparently nobody else did, the Pablo Dorian movie about Maria Callas. She has had a... Gowns, beautiful gowns. Yes. I mean, her film output since 2019 is Maleficent Mistress of Evil, in which she has the titular role. legendary podcast by us. Very fun movie about a cozier time in which the war between Red State and Blue State seemed more navigable in a Disney property. She was a voice in the one and only Ivan. She starred in Those Who Wish Me Dead, a Taylor Sheridan film. You liked it. The fire chases fires. Smoke Jumper. How do they go to the bathroom up there? Still no answers. I feel like they urinate on the fire. No, they don't do that. Eternals. Second time Eternals has come up in this pod. And then Maria. I was so pregnant when we saw that movie. I don't think this Alice Winokur movie Couture, which premiered at Toronto, has distribution? I don't think it has distribution. I don't even know if it's going to come out in America. Oh dear. So she does have two films coming. One a Mark Foster comedy called Anxious People that I think is maybe going to be a Black Bear movie that stars her and Amy Lou Wood from The White Lotus and Jason Segel. and then another movie called Sunny, which is a crime thriller starring her and Charlie Plummer and Method Man. Ah. A female gangster who fights to protect her sons and herself from an abusive drug kingpin. Relatable. Yeah, I'll just stick Angelina Jolie on there. We don't really know what to do with her. Fine, don't. Fine. It was a good conversation. We got to talk about Salt. What's the best Angelina Jolie film? like what's the best film she's ever made I mean I really like Mr. and Mrs. Smith that can't be the answer well I just it's the first thing that came to mind it encapsulates the Angelina Jolie experience I mean she's sort of a Clooney as well I almost put Clooney on my list and I think that's imperfect but and it's like it's just he's trying and it just goes wrong every time so I have always loved Hackers and she won an Oscar for Girl Interrupted Yeah. She's terrific in Gia, the HBO film. Sure. I don't know if she won an Emmy or she was nominated for an Emmy for that film. But, like, go down the list. No, I agree. Listen. Zero great films. There's a reason why I said Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Salt was a phenomenon, you know? Very, very weird career. I mean, a lot of hits, right? She had Tomb Raider. Sure. Taking Lives. Sky Captain of the World of Tomorrow. She's pretty good in that. You know, Alexander, a famous bomb. boxfire she's great in that but like what a weird career very strange how often does one of the most famous people in the world make zero good movies okay uh who do you got for four uh julia roberts wow speaking of the most famous people in the world and this misused well i don't misused underused some of it is underused because when we made her a hall of fame a famous episode that was cut short uh there's just like a no one thinks that i do a 20 year gap right uh-huh i mean and that's not totally true and she obviously had a huge amount of success in the 90s early in her career and then had kids and wanted to do her own stuff and then pick some projects that didn pan out she like many of her ilk has had a hard kind of reheating the career the 90s career in like post 2015 but so there not a lot and you know our friend sam esmail has is definitely and is still working with her and using so so that is great show and a movie and they have another movie coming i don't think that she i thought she was great in luca guadagnino's after the hunt um even though the that script does that make sense among other issues but we're just not using her enough it's julia roberts like we saw her at the golden globes she walked out on stage and everyone just absolutely stood up and applauded like we're not using that is like nuclear power you know let's find a way to channel it that's healthy for this earth how much of it do you think is just that she's like i'm just doing only what I want to do. I think that that's part of it. But also, I think Julia Roberts has earned the right to do what she wants to do, and then other people got to figure out how to use it. I'm trying to think, does Wes Anderson want to work with Julia Roberts? Does Paul Thomas Anderson want to work with Julia Roberts? There's definitely something where she has... Part of it is because with Julia Roberts comes Julia Roberts Industries. She's going to get a big paycheck. it becomes her movie because she's such a huge figure in the world but it would be cool to see her dip back in with kind of like a major event film Sam's next movie might be really big which was dated for 2027 and well I know it has a big scope so that'll be interesting to see but she has not done a lot of stuff like that in the last 10 years okay I came up with my next one it's Dev Patel oh this is a good one A lot of rumors over the years about could he be Bond? Could he be great at Bond? Is he the future of a certain kind of Hollywood? He's made some really good movies. But he's another guy who you look at the CV and you're like, okay, broke out in Slumdog. Best picture winner. You think it's kind of mapped to the stars. The biggest movie he's in after that is Chappie from 2008 to 2015. He's in the two Best Exotic Marigold Hotel movies. He's in M. Night Shyamalan's Disastrous The Last Airbender. And then in 2016, he's in Lion, which gets nominated for Best Picture, which is one of the most forgotten Best Picture nominees of all time. And makes a couple of good movies, Hotel Mumbai and The Personal History of David Copperfield. And he's in The Green Knight, which I think is fantastic, David Lowery's movie. But that came out during COVID, and as many people didn't see that as they should. He does The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar, and then he directs himself in Monkey Man. And one of the reasons why he says he's going to direct himself in it is because he's like, nobody will cast me as an action star. And no one has still. And I don't get it. I don't really know what he's got next. And somebody needs to put him in like a big mainstream movie that is good. One thousand percent. I always find him winning on screen. I think he's really also I'm always looking for people who are like really flexible, who can do a lot of different kinds of things as a star. Funny, endearing. could be the romantic lead, could be the guy with the gun. And he was, Monkey Man I think was an extended production process and flawed in many ways, but he was so watchable. And watching him run and move, I thought he was a very convincing action star. Agree. So yeah, I don't know. Also, just every time he comes on screen, my husband is like, that's the most handsome man that ever lived. Which is true, but you know, let's use it. Yeah, it's weird that he hasn't either found a franchise or found a TV series built around him. It's weird that there's not one thing that is like where he has some primacy. Anyway, what's your number three? This is a call is coming from inside the house one, but it's Bradley Cooper. Who is one of our great movie stars, one of our great actors, and sometimes one of our great directors. and even when you're watching is this thing on which i think the collective response on this podcast and off was why why and and also the way that he casts and portrays himself in that movie is fascinating and sort of baffling but he's still the funniest most watchable part he's taken to doing cameos now you just always like you start crying like yes yes at the screen when he shows up on Dungeons and Dragons, like two feet tall. Yeah, I did like that. And he's great. He's an incredible movie star. You know, The Hangover made hundreds of millions of dollars. It's true. He's done, like, you know, American Sniper, the plastic baby. He can survive anything. People love him. And he's just not in movies anymore. And then he's just, he's making stand-up comedy stuff. What? What are we doing? What does he have coming next? I feel like he has one big project that is worth putting our arms around that we need to get excited about. I mean, I'm excited. I'm always. He's been a main character of this show. Yeah. He's been one of the central preoccupations. I support him. I'm just asking for more. I mean, he's had the eagles to deal with, right? That's been a thing. He was Jor-El in Superman. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. That was good. I don't know if he has anything planned. Yeah. I mean, you know, Rocket Raccoon, that was good. listen A Star is Born was great The Mule we had a fantastic time The Mule which made $300 million Nightmare Alley you love my guy has it it's been a rocky road since Nightmare Alley I would say well yeah that's mostly cameos and or films that he is directing and starring and or acting in that we've been a little perplexed by Maestro is like an amazing achievement of directing. I think he's very good in it. I still... Not a great Leonard Bernstein movie. I have a little bit of a why quality to that one as well. Is this thing on which we were very hard on on the show? I understand the intent. Which is like, let's pull back back to basics. A funny character piece so that I can get away from the grandeur of Maestro as a filmmaker and I can do my James L. Brooks movie. That's what he's really trying to do. I get the intent. I think it was completely misconceived in a couple of ways. And the style of the movie, I found really off-putting. Some people disagreed, but most people just didn't see it. They had no interest, and it wasn't being sold on him. It was being sold on Will Arnett and Laura Dern. I'd be really interested to see if he just takes a mainstream movie star part. Because he now... I mean, it's really The Mule. It's the last real movie star part he's had, which is in 2018. and he's not even the star he's just a cop and before that's the star is born Nightmare Alley is a great performance but it's a great performance about like a demon like a possessed gross man and very little beyond that remember Burnt? and he has to shuck all the oysters yeah that movie is really bad really bad this guy survived Aloha and Joy you know? Well, sometimes you got to start asking, you know, is it the movies or is it number 16? Number 16. I was there. I was there when that happened. Really lives on, doesn't it? Okay. Who you got? I really want to do Amy Adams, but I feel like Amy Adams has no one to blame but herself for taking these parts. I think that that's unfair to Amy Adams. And I'm not usually the person saying that on a podcast. but it's you gotta take chances I admire that she is attempting to kind of push herself and do something physically in movies that most people are not willing to do and I do think it's possible that the comeback will happen it's possible it happens even this year because she's going to be in a movie called At the Sea a Cornell Mondrusco movie that could be exciting could be an Oscar movie, could be a fall festival movie. Oh no, actually it's premiering in Berlin, so we'll actually know pretty soon what people think of it. Now, this could be the thing that gets her back on track. But, Night Bitch, Disenchanted, Dear Evan Hansen, The Woman in the Window, Zack Snyder's Justice League, Hillbilly Elegy, Academy Award nominated for Vice, Justice League, Nocturnal Animals. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. 2016 was a good year. I'm stopping there. That's 10 years. Nocturnal animals. Come on. Have a little fun. I don't get it. I know there's a little cult for it. I brought it to the most anticipated. Listen, Jake Villanueva can have a little fun and fuck around in nocturnal animals and everyone's fine with it. But then when Amy Adams is there, people are like, oh no. You're right. I appreciate that she was trying to do something. I felt it was something she was not quite capable of doing. Well, listen, you got to push yourself as an artist. Wow. Look at you. You've come to bad for the woman who you hate. I don't hate. It's just that... Is she on the terminal list? She's not on the terminal list. But Hillbilly Elegy, Justice League, Woman in the Window, and then I think Dear Evan Hansen. That's the low. That's the bottom. I still simply cannot believe that this is a film that exists, let alone a successful musical. I was shocked by what I saw on that screen. that is a disgusting act i cannot believe like it was bad it was successful that was like it was a hit i don't know what's going on in the musical world not a hit film i want more for amy adams you know she also has the taika y tv film clara and the sun which apparently is finally coming out this year i think it was finished in like 2023 i mean i don't really feel good about that's based on Ishigura, the Kazura Ishigura novel, right? Yes. And then she apparently has a part in Star Wars Starfighter. That's tough. Yeah, you're right. She's doing it to herself a little. I don't know. I want a lot for her. Now, she's still obviously, she's got some juice. You know, she's getting, these are three real movies that could be good. Claire and the Sun have got my doubts, just given Psycho-Ytivi. But we shall see. But Amy Adams is my number two. Who's your number two? she's your number two oh wow i didn't realize you were ahead of me uh my number two is regina hall yeah you know which is just let us learn always from paul thomas anderson um who identified the the capabilities of regina hall beyond being the funniest person in any room or on any golden globe stage never forget kevin costner's sheltering in place that was really good and you know i i still remember the speech that she gives at the end of Girls Trip, which is the emotional, like, you are all of my friends. She has the ability to pull people in, in addition to being so charismatic and so funny. But never gets the opportunity. And PTA did this year in one battle after another. That performance has kind of fallen to the side in awards season, but she's amazing. It's a very quiet performance, right? It's him utilizing something different from her that she has a kind of power and a solemnity that is not usually tapped into. She's going to be in Scary Movie 6, by the way. She's in several scary movies. She's a great comedic performer, but I agree with you that she has something else really cool there. She's going to be in a Nick Stoller movie that is kind of intriguing. She's the third lead in this Nick Stoller movie called Judgment Day. The premise is a reality television judge is taken hostage on air by a disgruntled man who blames him for his life spiraling into incarceration. that's kind of weird because that's also the premise of Money Monster the George Clooney Jodie Foster film it's not funny this is going to be a comedic version of Money Monster Will Ferrell Zac Efron and Regina Hall sounds pretty good I'm open written and directed by Nicholas Stoller yeah okay number one Chris Pine yeah I watched a movie on Virtual Sundance last night called Carousel a very kind, thoughtful, emotional drama about two people who dated in high school and then separated from each other and were apart from each other for a long time and they find each other in middle life. Chris Pine plays a local doctor and Jenny Slate plays a woman who moves back to her hometown to help her parents with their home as they get into their 70s. A lot of really good actors in this movie. Sam Waterston, Jessica Harper, Jeffrey DeMunn, Abby Ryder Fortson, who is the young girl in Are You There, God, It's Me, Margaret. She plays Chris Pine's daughter. He's a single father. I liked it, didn't love it. A little Sundancey on the edges in terms of some of its dramatic choices. There's one scene in particular that happens in the middle of the movie between Jenny Slate and Chris Pine, a kind of disagreement over a kitchen counter where it was like, Julia Butters in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I was like, that's the best acting I've ever seen in my life. Whereas Chris Pine, first of all, the script in that scene is really great. It feels like it's transcribed from a real fight. And I've often had that feeling when I've had fights with my partner where I've been like, I wish we could just write this down and go back and look at it one day later and figure out what we were really trying to say to each other. And he's so good at representing a really bad habit of masculinity when you're in the fight with someone you care about. and certainly a bad habit of mine. I just always like Chris Pine. I thought he was a very good franchise star. He's a great Captain Kirk. That should have not worked. And it totally worked. Even I liked it. You know, he's quite winning in the Wonder Woman movie. Oh my god, he's so great. He's doing yeoman's work in Dungeons and Dragons. I think that movie's pretty fun. He tried with Jack Ryan. It didn't fit. he similarly, like a lot of the people that were listening here, has had a pretty weird post-COVID-to-today run of movies. Since 2020, he's in Wonder Woman 1984, which everyone hated, but we were mixed on. The Contractor, All the Old Knives, Don't Worry Darling, not his fault, but not a great part. Right, he's like the podcast. Dungeons and Dragons, Pool Man, which he wrote and directed, which doesn't work. He was King Magnifico in Wish, which of course means the world to me, but is reviled by all Disney fans. Is Wish still hitting in the house? No, it's kind of taking a backseat. We do still have the Asha dress going pretty hard, though. She will wear the dress because it's purple. A film called The Kidnapping of Arabella. Not familiar with this. It's an Italian drama. He's the only American star. No, hold on. I think that that, yeah, that is the latest film by Carolina Cavalli, who directed Amanda. I still haven't seen this. It was at Venice in Horizonte, and I didn't get to it. I would like to see this. But, I mean, shout out to him. I don't know. That's cool. So this movie and Carousel, first of all, a male star in his mid-40s choosing to work with female filmmakers. Carousel is also directed by a woman, Rachel Lambert. and that almost never happens. His next movie, I'm putting a red circle around it. It's called Alpha Gang. It's directed by the Zellner brothers. They directed Kumiko the Treasure Hunter, Danzel, a couple things I really like. They made the Sasquatch movie a couple years ago with Jesse Eisenberg. It's an insane film. Get to it. Alpha Gang is about humanoid aliens who arrive on Earth seeking to destroy, but they soon find themselves compromised with human emotions. The stars are Cate Blanchett, Dave Bautista, Lea Seydoux, Lily Rose Depp, Adria Arjona, Duna Bay, Calvin Harrison Jr., and Chris Pine. So it's like the most attractive people alive. It's hot humanoids come to earth directed by the guys who made the Sasquatch movie. Okay. Why not? I'm paying attention. Yeah. I want great things for Chris Pine. I do as well. Listen, real ones new with Princess Diaries, too. Yeah. They did. Look at you. Just selling yourself out to Gen Z right now. Excuse me, I was there. Do you know the plot of Princess Diaries, too? I don't. Okay, so... She's a princess. Yeah. She has a diary. Go on. In the first one, you know, she finds out that she's, like, the princess of Genovia, right? Genovia. Genovia. That's different from Geonosis from Star Wars Attack of the Clones. And then... And she's, like, inherited, you know, Genovia. And then Julia Andrews has to teach her how to be, like, a proper princess of Genovia. and then in two she's back in genovia but there are some like some legal challenges and i think uh chris pine is like a pretender to the throne of genovia oh my goodness and then and so you know they're at war uh but also then of course they find love it's i mean it's you know a classic opposites attract, you know, people, you know, enemies to lovers can't be beat. That sounds good. Yeah, it's great. I mean, he's really good. Also just my luck with Lindsay Lohan. Like if you don't understand how formative Chris Pine was in the mid aughts to those of us watching garbage cinema, I feel like one of garbage women cinema were garbage women, garbage teens, garbage teens. Yeah. That's what it was. Garbage teens is a good idea for an episode. Yeah. Um, like I said next week we don't have an episode and I'm thinking like should it be like a a hole filler episode where you're like what's a hole in your movie watching life that you've never seen I've not seen Les Mis, I've not seen Mamma Mia I've not seen any of the Princess Diaries films they're pretty delightful, Anne Hathaway it's not a movie swap though right it has to be different from the movie swap how are you writing so hard for Anne Hathaway and you've never done Princess Diaries I think there's like ignorance it's just a teenager in those movies right I guess she's in high school. Yeah. I'm not really sure where in her education she is in Princess Diaries, too. And I don't know whether she has to defer college. Is she getting her MFA? I'm not really sure what she knows. It's 2001. Let's go back to me in 2001. I'm living in the garden apartments at Ithaca College. Okay. Wow. Let's fucking go. I'm probably eating gas station pizza, 30-pack of Natty Light in the fridge. Okay. I'm watching the Sixers Lakers NBA Finals with my roommate, college roommate, Pants shout out to Pants you know who you are I'm getting drunk pretty frequently every third weekend I'm driving to Baltimore to go see Eileen this I've heard about I'm going to a lot of movies this is of course the fateful year of Kill Bill what kind of car were you driving back and forth to Baltimore? Thank you for asking. In high school, I drove a 1980 Buick Regal. Okay. I've told this story before, I think, which was a brutal car that I inherited, a really old car. Yeah. We, in my high school yearbook, made a mini music video that featured the car prominently. So then you just. It set to the sounds of Black Rob's Woe. But in your yearbook? In the video yearbook. Oh, you had a video yearbook in 2001. You might be surprised to learn. Wow. Well, we had a regular yearbook, too. Okay. Okay, so I drove a Buick Regal. Didn't make it past senior year. I then inherited a 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis from my mom. Mm-hmm. 1993? Maybe 1990. Another old car. Died freshman year. Oh, no. Then. Okay. I somehow, like, gained control of Eileen's 1994, I think it was a Saturn S1. It was a black Saturn. And I was driving it to snowy Ithaca. But were you on the insurance? No. Eileen allowed that? Well, really, Eileen's dad. It was really his car. Wow. These were some bum-ass cars that I drove. So yeah, I was driving down there to do that. So my point being... So you weren't there. But listen, you claim to be committed to the history of cinema. And I just have to tell you that the Princess Diaries and Princess Diaries 2 featuring Anne Hathaway, Julie Andrews and Chris Pine are formative. It appears Mandy Moore is in this film. She is? Yeah. Oh, is she like the stepsister or something? Is she like trying to... Jack, come on. I was going to say, I like how you're looking at me as if I have the answers. Sandra Oh is in the film? Wow. Hector Elizondo. Yeah, of course. I need to rewatch these. Anyway. Princess Iris 2, check it out. He was great in it. Did you do your number one yet? Just my luck, not that good. No, my number one is Kirsten Dunst. Fucking cast Kirsten Dunst. She's doing great stuff recently. She is doing great stuff. Civil War, that rocked, Power of the Dog. Roofman? Roofman? Yeah, Roofman. Yeah, but she's like, she's the girlfriend in Roofman. I mean, it's a more complex part, but let Kirsten Dunst lead movies. Please go watch Bring It On. You didn't think her being an accomplished photojournalist who was present for the most critical moment in American history was a good enough part? And also buying a green dress because womanhood is complicated. No, sometimes you just need to see yourself in a different light. Alex Garland knew. She's going to be in the new Ruben Oslin movie. Yes. I just, I, she is our one true, she is my one true queen. She's so good. She was on two of our 25 for 25 films. She was. Melancholia and Marie Antoinette. Listen, she can do Art House, but we also know that she can do big budget. So let her be a movie star. Let Kirsten Dunst cook. Who's a director you'd like to see her work with? I mean, she would be great with PTA. Did you see some of her like shade poster? I loved it. I was I was not going to bring it up. But yeah, she was just retweeting on the day of the Oscars. Some very re-Instagramming, I should say. Some Instagram reels and other content. She was taking some shots at Timmy. No, the Instagram reel in question took shots at Timothee Chalamet. And it just said that what Jesse Plemons did in Wagonia was more complex than what Timothee Chalamet did in Marty Supreme. But didn't she also use the phrase, this is top level in one of the captions, which is what he was saying about his performance? Oh, I thought that she, I mean, I follow her on Instagram. So I just watched her reprogramming. You would like this. I'm not saying you wouldn't like this. I know to be torn between Timmy and Kirsten Dunst, what will you ever do? but I do think she was taking some shots. Well, that's fine. I think she's pissed off. She's famously a very dedicated Oscar voter. She watches all the films. She's spoken of this. Maybe watch fewer films. Make more. Why are you talking? Talk to everybody else. Maybe cast certain things. Alex Garland didn't seem to have a problem with her. Let's get the Sophia Project going again. Yeah, that seems like a good idea. They rumored that they were working on something. They made three films together? Virgin Suicides, Marie Antoinette, and The Beguiled. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. The Beguiled Rewatchables? You already made that joke on Top 50 Rewatchables. It was really good. Not as good as number 16 Limitless, but really good. That wasn't a joke. Okay, that's our list. This was a fun exercise. Yeah. Hollywood's fucking up. I like movie stars. You have a couple on your list that I think are good, though. I really like Andy Samberg. I feel like Andy Samberg doesn't have... Yeah, well, really all of the SNL guys of that generation, like Jason Sadekis is another one where he's pretty good, and I guess he's just... That's a great point. Well, he's making Ted Lasso now. Yeah, and I understand that that's a cash cow for him, but he is good. But all those guys were very likable and very good in movies. I also put Javier Bardem on here because he's so good at F1. And I was like, why don't we do this more? Just like, put him in a suit that fits. Did you see I got to use the F1 gif? No, I did. I did get to use it. I think he literally says in that scene when they win the race, he's like, I can't believe it. But it works. This man has an Oscar and he can wear a suit. Let's make it happen. Well, that does it for another special episode of this show. Once again, we figured out Hollywood. We've solved it. We've given people all the information that they need to do a good job. Next week is what I would describe as the darkest corridor of the year in Hollywood. The award shit takes a pause. The new movies are not really coming out. We got to get a little creative. We have a couple new things to discuss. Originally, we were going to talk about The Moment, the new Charlie XCX movie, which is coming out in limited release that premiered at Sundance. I think we'll talk about it on Tuesday now. Right. You were going to talk about it today. And now we're going to talk about it on Tuesday. I thought you were telling me that we aren't going to talk about it on Tuesday. And I was like, no, Charlie, I'm ready. No, you will be muzzled and you'll never be able to speak of it. No, we'll talk about it on Tuesday. If you're able, go see it. I'm going to end up seeing 30 Sundance movies. Are you serious? I've already seen 10. What is wrong with you? I'm doing the work. I do the work. I mean, you do. So we'll talk about that. Okay. I'll just tell movie titles to you. Let us not forget Train Dreams. Yeah, no, you're right. And what I was able to bring you. Maybe we can workshop your pitches in real time on the podcast. And I can tell you that makes me want to see it or that doesn't make me. I got to tell you that thing that you just subscribed. One is already my job. Two, I'm pretty good at it. So I have given you consistent direct feedback that your sale of train dreams did not effectively communicate the power of trade dreams. The Academy says otherwise. They say, thank you for sharing that film with us, Sean, and we are going to nominate it for best picture. I want to spend a little time on people we meet on vacation, which is probably among the most watched movies of 2026. I mean, I'll talk about it forever. Okay. I don't know if you have four hours of a Mel Brooks documentary in you, but I do want to mention. Oh, yeah. I really like it. I think it's very good. Judd Apatow directed a new HBO documentary about Mel Brooks, who is turning 100 years old this year. And maybe some other stuff. Okay. Some news will come out. Yeah. For Monday. For Monday. And then we've got to come up with next Friday. Right. So we might be brainstorming topic ideas. Live on the show. Live. And then roulette wheel with the listeners. they get to choose what episode we do, which we've never done before, but I think it would be fun. Let's give it a go. Okay. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for all of his work on this episode. Thanks to the listeners at home. We'll see you soon. you