Inside the Epstein Plot: Fertility and Power

Hello, as people are joining, we are going to be talking. What did you label this? I called it Epstein Files. Yeah, correct. It's pretty straightforward. Yeah. You know what you're getting? That's what you're getting. You're getting the Epstein Files. You don't really need to. There's definitely going to go around, let's be honest. Dude. I mean, you could, like, people have asked me, Tara, where is the big picture piece, right? And I'm really, like, thinking about it. I really am. I'm just like, you know, there's a lot going on in my head and I'm holding on to it and I'm trying to go as high and as broad and as big as I can. But it's really, sorry, my dog, it's like all over me. But it's really hard not to. Yeah, Pancetta out here. Pancetta. Yeah. Look at this baby. We needed Pancetta up here. Yeah, Pancetta, what do you think about the Epstein files? Yeah. Yeah, she's, you know. But the truth is, is that you can like every micro email tells a huge story and like and to to completely disregard them is to kind of miss what this is all about. You know what I mean? And the FBI to have these files for so long and to probably have made contact with about one percent, if that, of people who are actually mentioned in the files means like this is all so incomplete. And, you know, and I'm really impressed with your reporting. It's something like I've always reported on about Epstein and known about him is this obsession with breeding and wanting to spread the seed. And like this like vile human being, like literally wanting to create a breeding ground on his New Mexico ranch, wanting Virginia Roberts to carry his baby. And like that was when she left. She was like, I can't do this. This is crazy. They did get her pregnant once, or maybe not him, but someone. And she was in a hospital. Like, you know, going through this miscarriage was a horrible experience for her. I remember her telling me about this. And it's like, this is, you know, like, I really think this aspect of the story is so big. And of course, it's shrouded in power and mystery and wealthy women from, you know, it's just sex. And it's like nothing can just be what it seems. There's like 15 different layers to all of it. So, you know, I want to tell you how I task us. So when folks are like, what part are you focused on? Or when people want to ask me a question for something, I'm like, sex crimes and victim testimonials, Tara Palmieri. Okay. She knows it. Unfortunately, that's the place where I feel like you've had the most reporting. Listen to the Broken podcast. Listen to the other stuff. Like when it comes to that, get caught up with her on everything that's been done in that world. Right. And everything that Virginia has said. the part that we're focused on right now is the fertility industry, the MIT and Harvard connections, because that's a huge part of it. And what he was funding when it comes to surrogacy, how that plays into celebrity surrogacy, which is under, you know, sort of invest like public scrutiny right now. And the trafficking of women for not necessarily sex, but potential surrogacy, right? Like coming out of Russia, his gene editing obsession. We do know that he was using the California cryobank. He still has sperm on ice. Like how much of this was used anonymously to potentially impregnate people who might not even know they have an Epstein baby? I think that's like the world that I'm in right now. And then Sammy has been in the world of like, is he a Russian op? Is he Mossad? Is he both? What's up with the Saudis? And while we're all doing pieces of it, that's how I go to you guys for which part is which right now. I think I can try to tie it together in a certain way. So the power is ultimately, they want power over women. That's the most raw type of power, power over their reproduction. That is like when you think about what meant, like, let's make it really deeply psychological, womb envy. This need to control these women, the obsession with fertile, youthful women. There's a deeply psychological problem there. And you see it in that there is a certain type of man who attracted to him, almost like a magnet for certain type of people who wanted to explore certain disgusting base desires. And when I say I'm like into the relationships and the geopolitics, I think what actually the, what specifically, like we can get into the specifics, But the truth is that like as above is below. So as he was like obsessed with the microcosm of getting a woman or spreading his seed to many women, the same men who were attracted to that as well, they were also running geopolitical games. And they were, certain people were attracted to him. They were using him and they were using each other in order to sort of advance their own goals in terms of big picture things, whether it was scientific advancement, whether it was, you know, energy or crypto or communication or propaganda, whether it was their personal disgusting, you know, desires. And what the end result of this is, is that the greed and the depravity that was inherent within the United States and much of the West made them vulnerable. and the impact of money and blackmail made the leaders and the, you know, security apparatuses of their countries vulnerable. And at the end of the day, getting Donald Trump elected as sort of like the, you know, one of Epstein's like main kingpins of all of this, and also someone who's doing a lot of bidding on behalf of Russia and Israel and Saudi and now the UAE, all of that has now they achieved their goal. Epstein was the catalyst for this takedown of the West to be achieved. He was also very close with Tom Barrack, who's very close with Jeffrey Epstein and President Trump. The three of them. Yeah. Tom Barrack is like basically running all of our Middle East policy right now. You know, this kind of brings me back to Robert Maxwell, who I also did a podcast on Power of the Maxwells. And, you know, he was believed to be a Mossad agent as well. He died mysteriously off the side of his yacht, the Lady Ghislaine, when, you know, he was stealing the pension funds from his newspaper, The Mirror. And, you know, it's believed that he introduced Epstein to Ghislaine Maxwell and that he actually was laundering money through Epstein to make sure that she was not broke when she was, when, after he died. and so like he may have been the one who got Epstein into this whole ring. I do agree with you. I think that Epstein worked in like a very simplistic Compromat style, like a Russian Compromat style. It was believed that Robert Maxwell was also working with the Russians as well. I mean, he was also a member of parliament at the same time. And like, yeah, and he was like one of the few publishers, Paragamon Press, you know, MTV Europe that was like able to work with Russia. So he, you know, it kind of all I think started with her father and that's why she stayed with him for so long. But I do think like ultimately like this is about money and connections and Epstein had a lot of it and women and he knew that the way to like have even more than just money and connections was to have, well, information, which by the way, he could also use any information on these people, especially Americans, by giving it to our foreign, you know, intelligence agencies. And he did. Yeah. He could be a fixer. As I call them a hyper fixers. He could, you know, he could use that information to not be prosecuted like the first time when FBI called, when Maria Farmer called the FBI in 1996. He could be protected with it. But I think like ultimately it was something he could hold over people and run this insane blackmail scheme for so long and continue to profit. I also think we have the blackmail for one quick second because. Well, I just want to say we have our answer to this to some degree because Poland is investigating him as a Russian spy and saying that the pedophilia ring was an FSB run operation. And I think to your point about bringing about Robert Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein pre-1990, 89, let's call it. Robert Maxwell's money, what I have read from Zeb Shalev's reporting, came from a combination of a CIA slush fund from Iran-Contra, some of Simeon Mogilevich's money, and money from Mossad also to like run, or from Israel to run weapons. and to basically get Saudi money too. He had to be getting Saudi money. I don't know if he was getting it at that, in the very beginning. This is like the, maybe not in the beginning. Yeah. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Rich then. I don't think Saudi Arabia. No, they came later. They're like post 2010s. Like, they don't really start playing into the emails in the post 2010s. And honestly, like I, I mostly stay in the emails. I, I really try not to like read the details of like the abuse because I don't, like, that's not like, there's no mystery that I'm trying to uncover there other than evidence that they did it and it was not punished. Like, that's really it. But I'm trying to, I like the connected tissue of it because the relationships to Tara, to your point about the power and the money, those like emails that seem like maybe it's nothing, like they reveal, especially when you look at them all together, they reveal like this picture of a man who certain people gravitated towards him and certain people avoided him. And, you know, it shows you that there was a choice in how close people wanted to get to him and how useful they found him or he found them. This is the thing that I want. Wait, I want folks to let me just say this thing about Epstein and what when we think about Epstein previous to this email drop, I've thought about him as this like monster douchebag guy who is a jerk. And then you read the emails and these powerful men are like emotionally connected to him. They have like genuine love for him in a way that is so fucking weird. It's like weirder than what I would have expected, like backdoor deal weirdo guy stuff. And they're like, you're my friend. I'm in a vulnerable place. Jeffrey Epstein's like mothering them through a bunch of situations that they're in, whether that's legally or wanting to get invited to his parties or trying to talk to them about like, he's like juicing them up in a lot of ways. Like, oh, I'm going to send you a girl. Oh, you're going to, you're, you're great. Like the emotional connection that he built, the vulnerable love to the point that Dr. Peter Attila leaves his kid in the hospital for 10 days because he misses Jeffrey Epstein so badly was the thing that shocked the shit out of me. The wild insecurity of these men and the way that they were so emotionally tied to him as like almost like a mother type figure was extra weird to me. Well, he's an outlet for them to entertain really their grossest, most unacceptable desires. It's interesting that you said that. So like Epstein was able to play on people's vulnerabilities. Absolutely. Like he found the thing you wanted or needed and he was able to fulfill it. Like even with Jess Staley, when he had to leave, I think he had to leave, what bank was he with? Barclays? Barclays. No, he got him the CEO job at Barclays. He made sure that happened. He was taking care of these people. But then I think about the survivors, too. And if you look at their 302s, some of them, they were like, Jeffrey's amazing. I love you, Jeffrey. Leslie Groff loved him. Talked about $2,000 here or there, big Christmas bonuses. What a generous person he was. Yeah, these were really traumatized girls. and like he gave them lawyers and told them that they were prostitutes and he was saving them and they believed it. And so it's like, even Virginia, at one point, like she, like that she was so used to it being their like slave that she kind of loved them too. Like a Stockholm syndrome type thing. Oh, for sure. For sure. That's the link. Yeah. If he just, if he was all stick and no carrot, he wouldn't, that's how you get someone like Trump. Right. Trump is more stick, less carrot. Epstein, like, had relationships. Like, he didn't— Yes, he viewed all people as transactional, but I actually think some of the more interesting, like, pieces to analyze is, like, who he actually liked, who he respected, and who he chased versus, like— Because most people were chasing him for the most part. And it's very clear who he liked and who he didn't, who he entertained, who he thought was an idiot, you know who was really intimately involved with him versus who was kind of like a passing association yeah yeah i mean i think something that's interesting is like who could have gotten closer to epstein and didn't like for example like and and i see this both not even as like a saving saving you know redeeming thing for the people who didn't as much as what it demonstrates what a choice it was for the people who did. Like Zuckerberg, for example. Would FC not have loved to like own Zuckerberg and like be all up in his emails all the time? No, he would have. But he wasn And like I think something I think he was too young I think some of this is like No but then why is Barry Weiss and Nellie Boles Barry Weiss and Nellie Bowles Barry Weiss and Nellie Bowles I mean Zuckerberg is like 40 they like 46 I don know maybe there was a cutoff for him somewhere toward the end of Gen Z oh he famously likes no he it was anyone who would who who was like in you know like why is Nellie Bowles so friendly with him she was introduced through a Russian we know that because people were like oh she was just at the New York Times and I'm like, she was not. Marsha Dracova? Marsha Dracova? Yeah. Oh, she's an alien to Epstein. She was like, I was working on a profile of like maybe tech people. Girl. Maybe this. And it's like, where's your work? Where's the report? What came out of it? Just like Steve Bannon was working on an expose. No, you weren't. You were taking selfies with him and being besties. He was working on PR recovery of his reputation. Yeah. Yeah. We write about Nicole Junkerman today who's like this German businesswoman who was an early investor in like Palantir and Bitcoin and like sports betting, like all the things that really define sort of like Western culture right now and where a lot of venture capital money has gone into and where a lot of control of men has gone into. And one of the things I was worried about publishing today about is four times she has had sub-stack authors removed. There are articles removed that are about her because she so very desperately does not want to be tied to Jeffrey Epstein, even though she was deeply tied to him. including potentially like him helping her through IVF with her 30 years older than her husband. Like this was intimate connection between this Nicole Junkerman character and him. And I think a lot of the women who were involved and knew about all of this tend to get kind of like sidelined, even though they had massive power and did sick, twisted things because they're not involved in the sex crimes. And that's where the public's interest can be. But the money and the international influence, I'm sort of hopeful, given what Poland has done and the UK is doing and France is doing, that the U.S. won't be able to deny and protect these people anymore because they're getting fucked up by the European nations that are holding them accountable. Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McArdle, and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a news show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic, and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. I'm a columnist of The Post, and I've been writing about economics, technology, and public policy for decades now. So every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward. I'm going to talk to inventors, entrepreneurs, politicians, and OK, probably some wonky types like me, if I'm being totally honest. Congress to me was a very entrepreneurial place. It's like Shark Tank, but a lot less glamorous. When nerds get rich and powerful, they can't help but get involved in politics. I want to talk about how we can get unstuck and live up to the country's many promises. It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together, to solve problems where they are. If we believe in this country, it's worth fighting for. Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, Nicole Junkerman, she was an art dealer, right? She was also an art dealer, which is a great way to launder money, as you said. Which is a great way to launder money. And I also noticed she went to Palantir and I'm pretty sure like she was decorating their office. She's a Harvard graduate. She's got everything. She's got, she's completely touches all of the different points. She's in there. He really was fond of her too. They went, they were like close friends, you know. He was a social guy. Yeah. There are a lot of like, I wrote this piece many years ago called The Women Who Enabled Jeffrey Epstein. And like, this was when people stopped caring about him. But like, I was like a whole pyramid about, of all these women. And like, I laid out a lot of these like very prominent society women who just by their association with him and their willingness to like, let him be a part of their circles, their high powered circles, like laundered his reputation. I wrote a lot about this woman, Melanie Walker, who he met through Bill Gates and he helped her like fund her career in academia. And like, I think actually, Sammy, if you're going in that route, I would definitely dig into Melanie. And yeah, she had some pretty high. empowered like publicists at the time trying to kill the story off and like definitely with the emails now like everything is revealed about her closeness with him and like you know it's just like this was somebody that Virginia remembered like vividly as a 30 year old woman around the time when she was 16 and I think like I think there's a level of accountability um for these people who were of age um were adults and like saw this happening and it's like do we put we put them in shackles no but like now they're celebrated renowned in academia and finance and various worlds actually like thanks to jeffrey epstein like he helped um even dubin meet her husband glenn dubin um no and this is like and she's getting profiles in palm beach post and all these places and it's like their lives have been set up by jeffrey epstein but at what expense you know what i mean and i i think why does leslie grove get to just live in new canaan and walk her dog down the street and say that she doesn't know anything when there's a file in there of her two pages writing what seems to be like a character testament for him which had to be for like one of his trials they must have asked her to write like a character um you know whatever thing but that's like, that's insane because like, if anybody knew everything, everything he was up to and doing, it's her. And why has she not been asked to answer any questions? I also do think there's a distinction between someone who's like in a position of public trust versus like someone who's in there and like, you don't know who they are. You know, if you're getting awards and you're making major decisions at banks or companies or nonprofits or in the government and you're in here, you actually, like, the idea that Peter Atiyah is keeping his job at CBS, like, because Barry Weiss doesn't want to admit that other people are right. It's like, what is the play there? Like, well, I think in a way she'd have to acknowledge her wife, Nellie Bowles, is also in the files. And like, okay. And what are you going to do? She's not going to get fired. I want to know what Kara Switzer thinks about Nellie Bowles being in the files. Like, Like, where, you know, where's that? She doesn't want to answer that. Yeah. Yeah. So, people keep talking about Nick Ribas. He's in a lot of emails. A lot, actually. And, like, a lot of things that are— I have to go back to him. But I see a lot of comments about him. And I wonder what people are— why you're pointing him out. Could be a lot of different reasons because he's all over. Is it because he's a former Clinton lawyer? Oh. By the way, the woman I mentioned, Melanie Walker, she, Dr. Melanie Walker, she was a Bill Gates connection. How, like, that was that? Do you think, okay, Melania French, Melania, oh, my God, Melinda Gates, she seems to have sort of confirmed what was, like, this idea that Bill Gates got an STD and tried to surreptitiously give her antibiotics because he passed it to her, like, whatever. because when they asked her about Bill Gates in the files, she said, that's like a really dark part of my history, and I think he should answer for it. So she didn't deny the stuff that's been said about him or what his involvement was. She didn't get into the specifics. She wasn't confronted with the specifics, but I think she could be saying anything about the relationship. Like, I just think it's... I want to know, what was the thing she said that they got divorced because of something he did with Epstein that she found, like, completely, like, she couldn't get over it. She couldn't get past that. Like, so what was it? Could be anything from like, she asked him to stop hanging out with him to she actually caught him with something. But like, honestly, my sense is that like, this is a very obvious dynamic to me. She meets him and she's like, I really don't want you to work with that guy. He's a creep, blah, blah, blah. You should stay away from him. He doesn't listen, basically. He just like disrespects her. And after a certain amount of time, it grosses her out enough and her kids are old enough and she's like, I'm not going to take this anymore. Yeah, I'm out. You know, like, it probably bothered her their whole marriage. You think Bill Gates is cooked? I mean, is this actually going to do anything? I mean, like, is this going to do anything socially? I don't know that he'll be prosecuted. They're all going to still hang out behind the scenes. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't matter. Oh, I forgive you. Like, oh, I get it. Like, yeah. A few times. The officer was in there. There's nothing anymore as humanitarian awards, okay? Yeah. Right. Right. Oh, he'll be okay, though. At the White House. Yeah, that's true. Maybe he'll get the Medal of Honor from Trump. Oh, gosh. Yeah, could be. You never know. Here's the thing. They're all going to be okay. People ask, like, what's the answer? It's like— Behind bars. They're not behind bars. Yeah, that's what I mean. They won't be uncomfortable. A wealthy white man would be. Yeah. Sorry about that. They're just going to have to live privately like rich people. Like, and I know that's probably very hard for them, given their egos. but like they're just going to have to not be as loud about it. Like you're not going to get as many accolades. Just go Matt Lauer somewhere. Just go be Matt Lauer. Well, Matt Lauer wants to be back in the game. Well, Don Lemon said, I think America's ready for Matt Lauer to be back in the game. So, I mean, I don't know. Why? I don't know why he says some of the stuff he says. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. Why are you open being back in the game? Yeah. Start fucking sub-stack and like let people follow you. No, no, no. Live in shame. No, I know, but it's like if he wants to talk, go talk. I invite you to build an audience like any other asshole on the internet. No, people want to get back. Sammy, they do, and they're with a bunch of other men who are, like, aggrieved that actually follow and listen to them. Like, don't inspire them because they exist. I know. I'm not going to listen to me. I remain mad that Adam Perry Lang never got in trouble or any of the chefs. None of them got in trouble. No, I remain mad that Adam Perry Lang is friends with Kimmel, and I remain mad that he gets to do barbecue pop-ups all the time. I remain mad that the James Beard Foundation still hangs the metal of a man who is a known pedophile around our neck. Like it's, I remain mad that so many things are socialized and normalized. Well, it was of its time. Like, no, it wasn't. And it was gross. And that was never, you know, women. No, this is the thing. That was never of its time. That was always legal. That was always, and if, and if a poor person did it, they would be there in a lot of trouble. If like, it's, you know, unless they're maybe, I don't know, like a Catholic bishop, you know, in the right place. But the Catholics are rich. They know how to sweep it under the rug, you know? Well, people keep asking me, is this cardinal in there? Is this bishop in there? Is this person in there? And I'm like, there are no black people in the Epstein files because he was wildly racist and he was not including them. and not to say, like, so stop asking, stop trying to say, oh, is Jay-Z, is Diddy? No, they had, Diddy had his whole own sex ring, just like the Catholics had their whole own sex ring. It doesn't mean that they're all connected. It means that evil is happening in different sectors of the world. It doesn't mean that they're all one thing. And I think folks kind of want it to be all one thing. So there's some silver bullet to end it all. And it's like, no, this is still going on. What's going on at Zorro Ranch now? What's going on at the Epstein Island now? What's going on with these people who were involved with Jeffrey Epstein who are working at banks still and colleges and universities. Larry Summers was still at Harvard. Dershowitz is still at Harvard. Brad Karp is still a partner at Paul Weiss. Yeah. I can tell you who's not in the Epstein files. A man that's not in the Epstein files. You don't see any plumbers. No. You don't see any, you know, the only police officers that you really see in the Epstein files were, you know, Mike Ryder, the chief of police in Palm Beach, and Joseph Terry, who fought, to make sure that this case was actually prosecuted, brought it to the state attorney, not the state attorney, above the state attorney, the U.S. attorney, because the state attorney wouldn't do anything about it. Like, you know, those people- If there were police officers, it would be like random people he paid off to like, you know, it wouldn't be like heavily documented there. To be to your point about how there's like different communities, like there's, here's the real reality. There's evil in every community. this was Epstein's community was like the global elites you know that's who he was he was like that side of our country because that was that of our countries the global the coastal elites that is who was that's who the sex trafficking ring was for can we talk about Michael Cohen somebody bringing up Michael Cohen in here Tara can we talk about Michael Cohen yeah he knows something You've got to know something. He's in the files. Yeah. The Katie Johnson thing. Tell me. I don't know. Yeah. So I just found like a few weeks ago, Ellie Leonard actually found this in the files. Michael Cohen's lawyer is saying to the prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, you know, Michael's heard stuff from Trump about Epsi and he's willing to offer it in exchange for Title 35. And Title 35 means that the information is so relevant, like is so useful to another prosecution that it would like shorten your own, um, prosec your, I guess your sentence in a substantial way. Now, this is a man who, when I interviewed him said there was nothing, it was bullshit. It was one Jane Doe. It was bullshit. It was bullshit. And has gone on a rant against me. And yet here is a file in here is an email from his attorneys in the Epstein files to to the U attorneys And then there another email from someone I think it was Epstein saying you know Michael Cohen knows everything Of course. Michael Cohen, look, you have to be pretty fucking thick to expect people to believe that he did not orchestrate the silencing of the Katie Johnson case. Of course. And I think that actually a great deal of what they have tried to cover up went back to the Katie Johnson case. Because that was like sort of the point A of how ground zero, whatever, how you connect Epstein to Trump with a really serious, credible accusation. Like that is a very straightforward, corroborated story. That was what they were always trying to prevent people from finding out, in my view. because it really tells that her story really tells the whole thing. The Michael Cohen thing pissed me off so that I was like, this is from the get. But this is a lesson for election season. He's such a bad liar. He always does the same exact gig. Oh, I went to jail. I'm the only one who went to jail for him. And it was all me. I've never heard of Katie Johnson. It was somebody else. And I never went to Ukraine. I've never been to Ukraine. I never had a Prague. I've never been to Prague. I don't have a passport. That's Michael Cohen. He always does the whole thing. Liar. Liar. He tells. He's not a good liar. Oh, and apparently he's putting to Lev, who has texts. He asked Lev for George Santos' information. Oh, I saw that one too. So he figured out how to get a party. I'm like, what is happening? Cohen would love to be in, back in, if he can get back in. Of course he would. He would. But this is my warning to people in politics. Okay, let's stop going after somebody who used to be Trump and MAGA-E and trying to make them a left-wing superstar. Like, it's just not worth it to do. The people were very willing to give Michael Cohen, MSNBC, Midas Touch. I love the boys at Midas. No shade to them. I'm just saying, like, it was a lot of him all of a sudden getting a ton of platform in left-wing spaces and left-leaning media spaces when he was fucking lying the whole time. So, like, let's not do that again. yeah i heard him on msnbc being like i could never been to prog lying but i could just tell from the sound of his voice i'm like wait wait what no i just know he didn't go to the island and i'm like and there was no follow-up question oh oh that oh the on the weekend when he was like i never i never went off and i was like wait you were working on stormy daniels you were working on carol mcdougall at the same exact time as the katie johnson case was filed yeah why wouldn't I just asked, what do you mean, Michael? You were the fixer. He also gets very... He didn't know about a major lawsuit that was filed against him three times. He gets very like, no, no, no. He goes from very sort of just casual to like, no, absolutely nothing. I know they were never friends. I never even heard Jeffrey Epstein's name. Oh my God. I'm sorry, that's not possible. So emphatic. Come on. Look, it's literally like, I have nobody's done more for sex trafficking, you know, victims than me. You know who has to tell, though, is Tara. I could tell when Tara is interviewing somebody and she's got them on something because your eyes just get like a little bit. And when you were talking to Michael Cohen, I knew you were going to get his ass because he was a liar. And you're very good at catching that and holding it in a way that you give them enough space to confess to their lying or to freak out. And when I was watching, I was like, she's got him. She's got him because he's so obviously lying. And the way you can hold your face and be like, I don't think that's true. And then they freak. It's a good, it's a masterclass in journalism base. Now you're sweet. I don't, I don't know where that came from, but I was just like that. I felt it in my gut. Do you know what I mean? I think you would have done the exact same thing because in ways if it's too combative with them, it's going to put them on their back heel and denying too much. And in a way, you have to kind of be like, yeah, yeah. Unless them keep like talking so that they actually like. It was like we were watching Criminal Minds. Tara was in there. journalism-ing. They should have done that on the weekend. And then he's trying to shit on you, and everybody who watches the video is like, she clearly got your ass. She clearly— Tara Palmeri. You were absolutely lying. Yeah, well, whatever. I'm fine with that. The other person who really is bothering me right now is Michael Wolff. And I mean, like, that is real. Street to jail. Street to jail, Michael Wolff. What's going on with you? I know. You knew about—like, you were his pal, his image consultant for so long. pictures from your wedding like giving him drafts of your pieces that you never wrote it's like published like just to flatter him you want to buy the New York mag with him and Harvey Weinstein? No. Was that before the conviction though? Like wasn't that? It doesn't matter. I agree but I'm saying like it was Sure. Everybody knew about Jeffrey Epstein. I mean like Peggy Siegel. Peggy Siegel the publicist. She's all over it. Get a child from Africa. It'll be so Madonna. I just... Wait, someone says Michael Wolfe is suing Melania. Listen, that's a performance because he knows that Melania will never sue him because he actually knows all the stuff. And he's not saying it. And he's not saying it. Melania in the files does not look good. It confirms a lot of reporting from people like Andrew Lowney who wrote a book that is not allowed to be published in America. And in his book, he says that she was with Epstein first and then and then it was introduced to Trump. Now, these are tips, obviously. So you have to look at them for what they're worth. But it does. It is the same story that is in Andrew Lowney's book entitled. And he's a very, you know, he's a really well-respected journalist in the UK. I do want to mention one other thing in my that I wrote this week, because I think it's important and I'll keep it short because it's a bit of a conflict of interest and I know that can kind of get boring. But Jay Clayton is running the investigation into future Epstein probes, right? He's doing the follow-up on if anyone will actually be prosecuted. You know, Trump said, prosecute all the Democrats, Bill Clinton, Reid Hoffman, et cetera. And he was also in charge of turning over the core pieces of the Epstein files because they are in, those files are in the Southern District of New York where Glenn Maxwell was tried, where Jeffrey Epstein was supposed to be tried, right? And he is so close with Epstein's inner circle, including Leon Black, who picked him to succeed him in his position as chair of Apollo Global Management, which he was kicked out of for paying Jeffrey Epstein $158 million to do his tax and estate planning as if anyone has ever paid anyone that much. And so he's got these really close ties. Wait, I thought he picked Mark Rowan. I thought Mark Rowan was the successor to Leon Black. They were both. They were both picked. So it was Mark Rowan and Jay Clayton. They shared it as chairman. Okay, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he like announced that he's like after much, you know, search and this and that. And so, which is another reason like Leon Black is actually in the files in an FBI presentation in which like for three women have accused. There's so much bad evidence. Yeah, Leon Black. He should be, he's sort of like, you see it all there with his case. And they had the information and he just, no consequences. So what's this Jay Clayton thing though? He was picked by him to work for him. And he worked for that firm that Leon Black retained a majority, like seven, not majority, but a substantial 7%, you know, stake in Apollo in this company that he worked at less than a year ago. So he shouldn't be leading the, yeah, obviously conflict of interest. He probably knows a lot about the Epstein investigation, the investigation that they did at Apollo, which I asked Apollo, did SDNY subpoena those documents? like did they ask you for the doc like for your investigation into his relationship with jeffrey epstein and they didn't and so if he's gonna now subpoena a place that he once worked at plus until until until august he also worked at sullivan and cromwell where he represented reed hoffman who's also the target of an investigation of the investigation yeah this guy is like so deeply entrenched in epstein's inner circle how can he lead any investigation into any future Epstein probes and really be trusted to turn anything over. I mean, even in the FBI's investigation, they include allegations against Leon Black, among others. He should recuse himself, obviously, but they won't. And that's like, it's like, even if you aren't in it directly, there's so much conflict where people are like, owed each other from just various things. they're just like and like i think he was like married into like leon black is married into like uh his son now works at the at the um with the administration for the international financial development corporation twice yeah and mark black you know so like it's all it's like a massive circle of i'm not going to use the word but you know what i'm saying like power policing itself. That is what is happening right now. Howard policing itself, and that is why, for so many decades, this story remained unprosecuted. There was a sweetheart deal. It was because everybody knew everybody. There was a phone call to be made at the highest level. Ken Starr, Alan Durshwe. Yeah, Ken Starr was involved. The first case, and it's like, you know, and then it went all the way up to Bill Barr, whose father... Zampoli, Paolo Zampoli, also in there. Yeah. Howard Lutnick, who didn't have a relationship with him, but wanted to go to his island. Next door neighbor. Next door neighbor. Epstein didn't like Lutnick. I'll say that. He wasn't interested in it. He didn't like Elon either. I mean, this is the thing. These people were such losers. The only joy that I got today out of this was reading, because I'm in his whole sperm donation nasty world, is that Epstein had low T. And I was like, you know what? For all of the, like, because we're also seeing a lot of, like, teenage boys and awful people on, like, Reddit and 4chan and different places where they are, like, celebrating Jeffrey Epstein. They think it's very funny to think that Epstein— What? Yeah, yeah. Oh, you mean 4chan? Because they don't know what it is. Like Epstein was involved. They call him Uncle E and they think it's funny because they're 12-, 13-, 14-year-old boys and they're completely disconnected from the reality of this. and they're making stupid content about him and whatnot. And all I have to put into that world is he had low T. They're being transgressive. They think it's funny. They think it's funny. It's like their generation of transgressions. Yeah, it's like how people thought joking about O.J. Simpson was funny, right? It's not. But they're 12. They don't know what they're saying, really. But the internet is forever, fellas. And so there's that. But it's, yeah, there's a lot of gross and weirdness out there in the world. But this factors into the internet being toxic for men in general, which may now, is Epstein Q? Did he start the Manosphere? Like, I don't know. There's so many different rabbit holes people are on. But the looks maxing, which I'm convinced Peter Thiel is looks maxing now. Have you seen him lately? What's looks maxing? He looks terrible. Looks maxing is where the boys, like, chew on their cheeks to try and make their jawline super cut. The mewing thing that they do. Peter Thiel now has like some sort of surgery. He has like a jaw you could cut diamonds on right now. And he's never, he's always been a soft boy. You should bring him a stand. I'm like Peter Thiel's looks maxing, the longevity, the gene editing, the fact that Epstein not only wanted to freeze his sperm, but was asking questions about like what the cryogenic viability of freezing his head and his penis would also be if it could be potentially like reanimated in the future. Like MIT weird deep research stuff. Like there's so much freak shit out there that that's why I had to take a break from reading it because I was like, you will make yourself nuts with how many things these people were involved in and how much weird science they're involved in. They want to be gods. They don't want to be human. And the only way to reach that status is through science for them. Right. And so this is like a, you know, and even when you look at his island and the weird cultures and the idol tree and kind of brings it back to Eyes Wide Shut a little bit. Eyes Wide Shut. Yep. Exactly. The island directed by Michael Bay also in the files. Can I ask a potentially irresponsible question? Do you think there's any chance he's still alive? No. Yeah. well each of you should make i'm so much more willing to be down in anything is possible place right now so maybe i'm not in a good place to answer but my feeling is the emotional love that they had for him i don't know and i don't think jeffrey epstein would kill himself i don't think his narcissism would allow for such a thing he was killed though like sure yeah i mean maybe russia killed him they do like you know push people out windows and shit no no no he was he died in the jail that the DOJ was in charge of Apparently there now an orange blob now I think I saw that in passing I saw that I saw that. He had trapped doors to the ocean, for God's sake, Allison. Yeah, that was crazy. Maybe he was able to trap door out of there. Orange blob in Epstein. I don't think we ever see Epstein again, so in that way he's dead, but I don't think, I don't know. I believe he could be alive somewhere. Do you know why people think that? Okay, guys, CBS, I'm going to stop for a second. CBS News, okay, who has done some of the most expensive and best reporting on this, by the way. They started 60 Minutes back in 2019, showing us multiple ways in which Jeffrey Epstein could have died, multiple people who could have killed him. Like, they have been on this forever, 60 Minutes. And they say there's newly released video logs appear to contradict official accounts. Hold on. A flash or orange looks to be going up the L tier stairs. Could possibly be an inmate escorted up to the tier. Oh, like they brought someone in to do it? Yeah, they're looking at the time code of the OIG's analysis of video footage. Oh, I believe he was killed. I don't think he killed himself. I think either he was killed or he's like out there somewhere. No, the reason, you know why people think he was... I'm looking at a partial view of something orange, but I can't show you guys right now. But I highly recommend you all go after this and go and look at this because it's pretty, you know... It looks orange too. The reason that people think he's still alive is because his Fortnite account apparently showed up playing like last year or something in Israel. And when people pointed that out, he like went private or something. Oh. So, yeah, I don't know. The sperm is still on ice at the California Cryobank. So if people, I mean, I'm very interested in what has been done with that. And then there's other Reddit things. I said Rosemary's baby is in there. You know, people say he's got babies, eugenics. He had such low sperm motility, though, that I don't know that he would have actually been able to outside of IVF and pregnant anybody. So we'd have to have, you know, matched it up with like egg donors. And maybe that's where Nicole Junkerman comes in. I don't know. It's like, you know, how people try to make women feel bad for having fertility issues. You're like, I love how you're trying to like. I'm like, Epstein's got low T and his sperm motility was 1.8, bros. Shit, it's shit. It was like, I feel like women are always like told like, freeze your eggs, freeze your eggs. Like, otherwise they're going to be old eggs. And it's like, what about men? Like, your sperm gets older. it's closer linked to a number of other issues that children i'm like freeze your sperm why do we have to do all the year to that there's so much easier all this told him he was he was uh you know very very low candidate for i mean he couldn't do iui he couldn't naturally breed anybody for sure no but another theme is that they all have really weird looking dicks is like yeah according to which makes so much sense is like they want to be with a woman who wouldn't know the difference because she's so young. Right. Or that they could, yeah, that wouldn't know the difference and that they could control for sure. I just think they're, I think they're weird. I think a lot of them read like the guy who never got a girl. They have very morbid curiosity about female bodies in a way that's like, you know, you kind of figure that out when you're dating people your age and you're younger. You're like, show me yours. I'll show you mine. Like they never got that experience with girls when they were younger. They never had like some normal experience dating and then they grew up and were like, okay, I'm going to like fulfill all my morbid weird curiosities and like womb envy and control of women and trying to figure out how I could like build a world without them because they make me uncomfortable. And that brought us back to right in the beginning that they were obsessed with controlling women's fertility, weight, teeth, appearance. Everything. Everything. Yeah, I mean, like Virginia talked about, like, it was one of the things that she spoke about the most was the food because they limited her food to keep them looking young, to make them look like little girls. And then, like, Adam Perry Lang, the chef, would give her food and she felt, like, seen and fed. apology fries let me tell you what those are like as a former chef when when you know that the girls have had a hard time on the floor maybe you were mean to them the waitresses or whatever was going on at the end of the night you give them fries and you're like are we cool there's some fries i'm sorry i yelled at you today or whatever happened but that is what he did that is like chef behavior and the man went on to work for mario batali so i have a lot of questions about adam but you know if you were giving virginia giuffre apology fries at the end of the night then you know that she had something wrong go wrong for her. Like that's a chef thing to feed somebody who had a bad day. And so I just, I wish he would be more honest. I just, him, the pilots, like, come on guys. They're all living very comfortable lives now. Way more comfortably than, you know, most pilots and chefs. Like I remember going to their houses and they were living in like beautiful gated communities. Those kind of like mini mansion, you know, the, I forget what they're called, like a Mediterranean style. home. It's just, they're, you know, they were paid really well to shut the F up. And are they still paid? Like Jeffrey's estate still generates money. I mean, I'd love to know. I think his brother, there's been fairly cooperative, but like how much so? Is it like, I'll give you 20% because I want to, you know. Yeah. And also so much investment is in talent here. Yeah. And they are ventures. So he's making a lot of money off Peter Thiel, who's doing very well these days. Yep. We've solved nothing, but we had fun talking about it, I think. That is what I'm trying to wrap my head around. It's like, what do you do? What do we do? You can't get accountability. It's not realistic to think that will happen soon, but in the future, somebody, someone, we will have to remake things. Well, I think this is the thing I cling to with Congressman Garcia and even Ro Khanna and different people is like, it will take actual generational power change before anybody's held accountable because they're so emotionally tied to either the nostalgia of the 90s and early 2000s and the lives they led or they were financially invested by him. And I think that's why Garcia has a little bit more freedom to push a little harder because he's like, the people in the Epstein files of my generation were the victims. And so I'm more interested in helping them than I am protecting the older people who have, you know, punished us in so many ways. I agree wow thanks for hopping on friends I feel like we needed to do this for everybody being too involved and Tara you've been doing this for friggin years man like what do you do to like deal with it stick my head in ice cold water I actually really appreciate your work like I am I love your enthusiasm I love what you're doing like I think it's really detailed and like really some of the best journalism I've seen like on it. And I actually like I think about it and I have like so much pride in the independent journalism world. And I'm so happy to be a part of it because like I know if I was sitting in a newsroom like I was in the past trying to report on Jeffrey Epstein, like it wouldn't be happening like I couldn't do doing now. You couldn't be doing what you're doing now if we worked in mainstream media. How do I know this? Because when I work, obviously, ABC News, where I worked at, they didn't publish Virginia Giuffre's interview, which like she worked so hard to get out of hiding to like actually sit down with them that to speak out for the first time they never published that like even now you're not seeing live blogs anymore on cnn really of like the epstein files you don't you're not seeing the kind of rigor and like even ellie leonard like pulling that like file for me on michael cohen like it's the kind of stuff that we like there's no interest even in the mainstream media of like what does this man know about our president's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Like, you know, and, and like the places that then the independent media is going, it's just like, I'm just, I'm so happy that there are people that have platforms like you two, um, that are reaching such like huge amounts of people and being responsible. Like, I feel like you are, like tips, like they are. And it's like, you know, I haven't dealt with the tips and the Epstein stuff, honestly, because it's so traumatic. And it's sort of like, if I'm I'm going to hold true to telling people that the Veyers reports when they were saying there was all those vaccine injuries you had to take with a grain of salt. Then we have to take the tips the same way. These are unvetted and they should be investigated, but they haven't been corroborated yet. So it's sort of less responsible to that point to just put out these salacious, crazy things. Also, you know, there's also so much that is legit. It's like you don't need to go to the stuff. Yeah, it's not. use the tip as a way to do further reporting and like actually figure out what what like how make some phone calls you know what i mean like do just do basic reporting and i think like there's enough in there there's you know we're gonna get a lot more files to paint a picture of epstein's world the depravity and like again you know who i think you should believe like the survivors believe the survivors you know what i mean especially the ones who have come forward Not to say that if you haven't come forward as a Jane Doe, but like if you've done, if you have taken, you've testified, you know, before the court of law, you face perjury and you're telling your story, which requires so much strength. Like we need to take these women at their words. They know the story. They've told the story over and over again. They people have won't believe them, refuse to believe them. And now there are files that show that they weren't crazy. Right. That's what I think. Start there. They're on record. Like, let's get them, you know, front and center of the justice thing before we, you know, keep adding stuff and trying to, like, put it in front because it might be more interesting for the moment. Like, there's so much to deal with that you don't need to add unverified tips to it also and drown them out in some way. So do you think that this has anything to do with Savannah Guthrie's mom going missing, too? Because so many people have asked me that. Savannah Guthrie's mom has been abducted. Do you know about this? Oh, sad. I know about it. And they're like, it's tied to Epstein because she did the first interview with the six women. And I'm like, I don't know if that's true, but it just seems really scary. I think what I think the story of what happened to Virginia is that, sorry, not Virginia, Savannah, is that we live in an age right now where people are willing to commit crimes against public people all the time. And, you know, and it's happening. It's the stochastic terrorism. Yeah. It's a type of terrorism. And I feel for her so much. This is like one of the darkest types of ways to terrorize a person. And yeah. And I mean, you could draw any line to anything, but I don't see it being connected to Epstein. Yeah. I think it's like things will become more clear with, like, they have to. Yeah. They have to. I hope so. We'll get more filed, too. Three million. And then the Clintons are testifying, which is going to be... Girl. Ghislaine Maxwell testifies on Monday. I'm going down to the city. What about, like, Steve Bannon? Like, what? Steve? Michael Wolff. Like, why don't you make these... Yeah, I've got more people with low T. Yeah. More people. You should keep a list of that. First of all, men with adult acne have estrogen problems, all right? I'm just telling you, man. Like, low T. That's how every dude that's in the Epstein files now I'm going to describe as low T with a weird dick. And I think that that's fair. I think I should. And womb envy. These are the ways we have to talk about it. Low T, weird dick, womb envy. That destroys it. Yeah, nobody wants to be on the side of those guys. Womb envy is a real thing for sure. Yeah. All right, homies. Thanks so much. We'll see you guys later. Bye. Love you. Bye. That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri show. I'll keep continuing the story as it is developing. Please follow, subscribe, share it with your friends. Tell everyone about this show. It's how we keep going. Please go to tarrapalmeri.com and become a subscriber to the Red Letter. If you become a paid subscriber, you get exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. How you can support my journalism. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abinate, Abby Baker doing my socials and research, Adam Stewart doing thumbnails, Dan Rosen, my manager, everybody is working overtime today. It's a Friday afternoon. They always know to dump it then, right? Just to ruin our weekends. And that's why, because they're hoping that we won't be as persistent and on it as we are. So thank you for listening to the show and I'll be back again soon. Hi, I'm Tamsen Fidel, journalist and author of How to Menopause and host of The Tamsen Show, a weekly podcast with your roadmap to midlife and beyond. We cover it all from dating to divorce, aging to ADHD, sleep to sex, brain health to body fat, and even how perimenopause can affect your relationships. And trust me, it can. Each week, I sit down with doctors, experts, and leaders in longevity for unfiltered conversations packed with advice on everything from hormones to happiness. And of course, how to stay sane during what can be, well, let's face it, a pretty chaotic chapter of life. Think of us as your midlife survival guide. New episodes released every Wednesday. Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.