Will the Traitors Go to War?- Traitors S4 Ep 7 Feedback Show

! Hey everybody, what's going on Rob Cesternino back for a little traitors feedback ready for episode 8 coming up this Thursday night and I'm back here with the Duke of Deception. Here he is, it's Pooja's Ava Killy, Pooja, how are you? I'm doing good Rob, I'm doing good. My sleep schedule is a little bit out of whack but we hear. Why what's going on? I don't know man, I like, I overslept one day and then I stayed up way too late another day and now I'm in shambles. Getting it back on balance, back on track. I really need to, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, we are in the like hangover period after the black banquet, everybody's still talking about how it all went down, lots of reactions, we'll talk about Rob versus Candidate. This maybe is this all going to start the unravel for the traitors coming up this week and the battle lines are drawn, Pooja. They are, we find ourselves in the midst of the starting point for the Civil War. I feel like maybe last week was the case but now it's actually happening. And we also are scheduled to talk with Lisa Rina coming up later on today on Tuesday. Lisa won't be as eventful as my conversation with Jam Jam but I'm looking forward to it nonetheless. Oh, I think it will be eventful. I think Lisa is going to deliver but I think it's going to be a different energy to what we had when we talk to Jam Jam for sure. And if she doesn't deliver, we'll be like Lisa, come on. I know that this isn't the real you. Where's the housewife, Lisa? You're supposed to be, we're expecting a little bit more from you, isn't it weird? You didn't bring more to the interview, Lisa? Yeah, we reheatin' all Colton Underwood not you. Never. I will never reheat Colton's nachos. No, thank you. I can't wait. We're going to have a good time with it. Yes, okay. So Pooja, it's the big, we got left with a cliffhanger of Robin Candace in the turret and it's really, I think, going to be the unstoppable force versus the immovable object and you could decide who's who, but we've seen these two work pretty effectively together so far this season, but it does seem like this is going to reach a boiling point. Absolutely. I think that, I think the biggest debate I've seen come out of Thursday has been the Rob Defenders, Defending Rob's, Pooja out of Lisa, the Candace Defenders, Defending Candace's vote, people talkin' about how Candace's vote was stupid and is going to lose her the game and it's very interesting to me because I feel like you can really see all the sides on this and make your own mind up of how you think it's going to go. I'm very curious what that turret looks like because I think the number one question on people's minds are, are they going to recruit, or are they going to murder? Let me go. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, okay. I think that that is a very fair question to start. I think that I wouldn't be surprised if we spend like 10 minutes in the turret to start the episode on Thursday. I would love that. I would love that. That would be magnificent. Cause first of all, they have to decide which thing they're going to do and they have to decide who to recruit or who to murder. There's a lot of moving parts here and this is what intrigues me infinitely about the whole recruitment process if they recruit because I think upon first glance, you're like, okay, well, Candace will not want, like if Rob suggests Colton, Candace won't want that. Whoever Rob suggests Candace doesn't want whoever Candace suggests Rob doesn't want. I think Rob, I think that if you let them recruit who they want, you have the upper hand. Now, let me explain why. Let's play in a scenario. Rob wants to recruit Colton. I think for Candace, that's not a bad idea because if then Candace spends all her energy in the next round pushing out Colton who already has some people that want to vote him anyway. Yeah. And then Colton's revealed to be a trader that puts her in a better spot. Other side of the coin, let's say Candace, I want to Rinda. Rob said, well, I'm not going to do two housewives again. If he does that and they push out one of the housewives, the whole narrative of, hey, it's a housewives turret works for Rob better. Also though, I think Rob doesn't see this, but if Colton is a man is banished as a trader, that helps Rob also. I don't think that's a bad idea for him either, but I don't think they're going to see any of that logic. I think they're going to be like, I'm not giving you what you want. It's not going to happen. So the idea of recruiting in a trader to sort of be a sacrificial lamb, I think certainly was talked about in season two when Parvati wanted to bring in Pilot Pete and there was some idea about that. But I feel like it really hasn't happened in the US version of the show. Is that a fair statement? I would say so, not compared to some of the other ones we've seen. Okay. So let's bring in some of the international editions of the show and maybe not necessarily like citing the specific instances so we don't spoil those seasons. So you feel like, is that tend to be an effective strategy? Because I feel like that on paper, it sounds good, but in practice, the person who's being thrown under the bus tends to really like immediately figure out they're being thrown under the bus and then can be very resentful and then tip off the faithful to what's happening and making very clear that it was trader on trader. Absolutely. And I think that's the hard part. And that's why I've never for recruitment until you absolutely have to because especially let's look at this turret a little closer. Anyone that's not a close rob ally comes in, they're going to look around and be like, wow, you just threw your own under the bus pretty damn deep. How can I ever trust you? And that should be their immediate reaction going in and they should start playing defense immediately. But I think that the problem is there's not much you can do defensively outside of throwing their name out, which to your point is going to be a problem. The best case scenario I really feel like for Candice and Rob is to try to fix this thing and maybe that's my flaw of like, okay, how do we fix this? What's the win-win as opposed to like this is the line in the sand, let's cut bait. And I think if they recruited like a mark ballast type, somebody who could come in a great listener, somebody who could hear, okay, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. We need somebody to heal the rift with the traders because I wonder is it too early for either them to try to go it alone? So we're at what? We're going to be about a final 11. I think. Or is it, I think I'm at this totally wrong and that is it better for like, okay, it's we're all in at the table. Okay, one is going to take out the other and then can the other one bring in a person that they can work with and go the distance with the person they want? I think that's probably what both of them are thinking right now is I need to empty it out and rehire bring a new person in. Because I don't think I think to do this solo from here on would be, first of all, they won't let you do that because they're going to make you do a blackmail probably to bring someone else in. I don't think we're going to have a 1v10 lobby. That's not going to happen. Yeah, you can never have just one trader at this point in the game because then that person gets banished at the round table. There's no traders in these shows over. So you can't ultimately have that if you get down to one person. So, but which do you think is the better strategy? Should they try to bring in somebody that can help fix this bad marriage at this point or do you think that they are both better, they are both incentivized to go it alone? I think. With a person that they're choosing. I think that right now, first of all, I think that both of them will benefit from working together. I think that individually, they're both situated not in a bad spot. I think Rob's in a really good spot. I think Candace is still in a very decent spot as well. Together they could be better. But let's say that's off the table. I think that as of right now, I don't think either, neither trust the other. I think Rob has just got a vote from Candace doesn't love that. I think Candace just watched one of her own get eaten up by Rob doesn't like that. So I think they're both going to look into getting rid of the other and making room for a fresh start for themselves. As opposed to patching things up and moving along. If I had my brothers, if I was one of them, I would use this upcoming round as a trial of like, let's see if we can work together and go from there. Because if I'm Rob, I have to feel confident that like, yeah, I don't think Candace has the mojo to get rid of me this round. So let me see what she does. Let me decide from there. And I think for Candace is like, well, let me see if he retaliates on the one vote I gave him. If he doesn't, maybe there's something to be done. I just don't think they're going to trust each other moving forward. I just don't think it's going to happen. So I think we have a pretty good sense of how Candace is as a player and as a trader and how she's looking at the game. And I think she really wants to be in control and doesn't want to be just a passenger in somebody else's turret. As for Rob, he has been a little bit more quiet to this point. We don't necessarily know how he looks at the game as a whole. He know a little bit of how he operates as a trader. One of the comments that I saw about Rob Roush before the season and maybe we can find this tweet is somebody asked, hey, could you explain this person to me with other reality TV references? And this person on Twitter wrote, he's like if Boston Rob and Lex had a baby and that he has sort of the very emotional nature of Lex. And if you cross me, I can't forgive you. But then also the cold bloodedness of Boston Rob. And so I would imagine with that type of makeup, I have to feel like that he too will feel like he can go it alone. Yeah. I think so. I think especially now that he's not outnumbered in the turret. I think that gives him newfound confidence that he may not have had even before. I think also he doesn't seem like a stressor compared to other people we've seen in the turret. Being like having ice in the veins like that, I think allows you to also get away with a lot more than if you're constantly worried about what's happening. If you're just like chill about it, you get away with a lot more. You can do a lot more. So this week Candice popped in on watch what happens live. And was asked a little bit about her vote for Rob at the round table. And I actually have this clip. I'd love to play it for you to give you a little bit of a sneak peek of how Candice is viewing things. Let me see. Here we go. Here is talking with Andy Cohen. No, I don't think the throwaway vote made you look suspicious. No, I so Rob was a mute at this table. Every other round table before this one. So for him to come out and give a state of the union address. I was looking at him like, are you are you high? Like are you okay? Like he was there was like a twinkle in his eye. He like came out of his shell. That is suspicious to me. If I'm more faithful and I'm looking at behavior at this table and all of a sudden you're like switching up. Yeah. You were too passionate about somebody that you had no passion for prior to. Okay. So what do you think about Candice's statement that Rob coming out of nowhere. He hasn't talked at the round table really the whole season and then for him to come out and prosecute the case Lisa so much. Was that really giving trader on trader? I think that's a great case by Candice there because I do think that we even on the night talked about how because I think people misunderstood some of the things I was saying. I do not disagree with him voting out Lisa. I think once he had done it last time he has to do it again. I think I disagreed vehemently with him being the one to push it across the table that night. And I think that for Candice it is a great way to again throw a nod to, hey, that could have been a trader on trader interaction just saying because there is enough there to make a case for it. I think him being very outspoken out of nowhere. You know, who is the last trader I can think of that went silent for a bunch and then threw out one name and it was a trader name. It was dangly sling. Difference is. Rob Roush has hella allies and has a lot of connections that dangly thing did not have. Yes. Yeah. So it's really interesting. But when Candice votes, she says, I don't know why this is just a throw away vote. Should she have at the round and maybe she sort of was, is this going to be what we see her do in the castle in the next episode? It's like, hey, you know, I said it was a throw away vote. I think it was trader, untrader, Rob went hard for Lisa. Had it, you know, where did he go? Where is this coming from all the sudden this guy? And so maybe rather than saying it in front of everybody and tip off Rob to what you're doing, I wonder if this was part one of her plan potentially. I don't know if she's going to be like, I actually had a master plan all along. I think that she could, and what I could see more likely happening is her bringing it up in the sense of, so I was sitting with my vote last night. Obviously, I think the throw away comment is more so I couldn't decide between the two options you gave me. So I want a different route. And I do think she can start painting that narrative, especially because of the fact that again, I don't know where he's starting to talk more. That's a little bit strange. It's not happened a lot before. I think that's a good case to be made. I think the one issue though is that right now, as things stand, Colton is the one they're looking at going for. I think Colton is the one they have more votes on currently. So I don't think she can full launch a Rob Rouse situation. I don't think she has the votes for a Rob Rouse management. Yeah. I think she needs to dwindle that side on Colton is the first step. It will be very interesting to see how this shakes out if they both decide to go all in on a particular moment because they are both two of the most popular players in the game. It's probably maybe most similar to like Boston Rob and Bob the drag queen who were both two really popular players in the third season, where there's a lot of people that consider Candace to be a great ally. Candace has had a really good social game and there are people who really enjoy her company in the castle. But so does Rob. And probably they're in like the top three or four most popular people if you pulled everybody who's there. So these are two very beloved figures inside this group that potentially are going to be trying to now sway a lot of people against somebody that they have warm feeling stores. Yeah. And I think that's what fascinates me about this traitor civil war versus the others is that this feels like a pretty decently sized matchup. I think both sides have advantages. Both sides have allies. We do we crack down the numbers on the recap. And it's pretty close. I think on first sight, Rob Rush looks like he has a bigger lead and I do think Rob Rush is positioned better than Candace is, but I don't think Candace is a slouch and I do think that Candace has enough trusted numbers that can do the damage for her in Johnny and Tara. I think Johnny has a lot more leeway than we're being shown. And I think that if she has Johnny firmly, they can get other numbers. They could make a pivot happen. But we're in a very delicate spot because once a murder does happen and Rob has the dagger now we're really getting to a little bit of survivor here Rob Rush. Like there's two sides. One vote could really determine everything this upcoming round table. And they're both such popular figures that it seems like the type of thing where it might take a couple of rounds to poison the well against the other person unless one of them makes such a big mistake where the other one can point, ah, we got you now. And that does happen on the traders. Yeah. And I think that for me, that's what I'm waiting to see. I'm going to see who's going to make a mistake. How we're going to go from there genuinely depending on who leaves this week Rob in the banishment. That could determine which side can take this all the way because I think I still, my money is still on Rob pulling it off. I think he still has with the dagger and the allies he's got. I feel like he's got more of a case. I worry that if the Johnny side pushes on Colton, they get Colton Colton's like faithful. They're like, oh, no, we touch the hot stove. Let's back off. And that gives Rob to the platform to then run and do something else. But we'll see. The dagger six is going to certainly weigh into things. But don't forget that Johnny was trying to get that big group of eight faithfuls with I think Rob was included in that group of people to be able to control the round table. You've heard Johnny, we were talking about that over the last couple episodes of like, okay. So I think that people control the round table. We control who goes home and I do feel like that Candace has better connections into the Johnny and Tara relationship. Yeah, I think so as well. Remind me who that eight was. So I believe it was Johnny Tara, Mark, Kristen, Eric, Mora, Rob and Stephen. Survivor, no inner halls. They're still all there. Yeah, I think obviously I think Rob and Rob, I'm going to be in and Rob without a doubt. We've got the faithful figured out. I mean, if they put Stephen in that turret Rob weeks, five overalls. Was this off top of the dome? Or did you think about this over the week? We did say survivor overalls on the podcast we did with Annabelle the other day. Okay, there you go. Yeah. So it's been stuck in your head is what I'm hearing. I have been really trying to think about what to do with survivor overalls for a couple of days. Since we had that podcast, we did a great podcast breaking down survivor UK season four, also with Annabelle lots of nice feedback on that podcast. I really had a fun time doing that. It was delightful. Again, if you've not watched the UK, check it out. It was very good. Indeed presents. Hires you can't afford to get wrong like warehouse operations manager. Where are the thoughtless? I sold them. They were too expensive. I got a great deal on these scooters though. You expect us to move a two turn palette on a scooter? It'll be fun. Just think of the core strength you'll build. This is a job for sponsored jobs. This is what happens when you don't sponsor your job on indeed. So the next time you need someone to get the job done right, get matched with quality candidates with an indeed sponsored job. Visit indeed.com slash next hire and sponsor your job today. We are let's see what other questions did we get? We asked for feedback from the listeners. So let's tackle some feedback questions. Yes, we asked and they delivered Rob in a lot. Yes. So let's quickly go to the beginning of this episode, which was all about the banquet. Now I will say I because of the nature of the fact that I watch the show and then hop on with you immediately. I don't get to see what what the Twitter streets, what the blue sky streets are saying. Thread street. It's gives the threads. Well, I've seen you make a return to the thread streets. I have seen that. Overwhelmingly underwhelmed is what I got from a lot of people and the banquet. They felt like there should have been more. I think it was big up a lot and didn't get there. But let's ask answer a question about it. If you were tasked with altering the banquet, what changes would you make? What? How do you see a change here making a better product? So I feel like the banquet itself didn't need a lot of changes. I don't think that that was too like it was epic. It was everything you expect from the traders. Alan Cumming got to like really deliver on like this great set piece. You know, Jam Jam getting pulled out of the room was very fun. I think if you were going to make a tweak, I think the idea of ending it saying, Hey, one of you has been poisoned. Let's find out what ultimately happened and then everybody goodnight go to bed. I think that that probably is more within the spirit of the show. I like that they tried it and ultimately Lisa was probably going home no matter what happened. Like I think if Jam Jam ends up like saying like a tarot lapinski kissed me, I think Lisa probably still goes home at the roundtable. That being said, I think it probably is a I think a little bit more within the spirit of the show. If they end up doing it where they go to bed, they go to bed when like they go to bed. And then somebody doesn't come to breakfast and then we find out who got murdered, who got poisoned in front of everybody. Because even that would be an advance on the traditional murder and plain sight. Because the players traditionally where we've seen these dinner parties and other versions of the traders, where the trader needs to do something. The deed is done. We find out everybody goes to bed. And then in the morning, it's like, Oh, the players, this person was murdered in plain sight at the dinner party or was murdered in plain sight last night. And they find out in the morning, this would have been at least, Hey, somebody has been poisoned. There's a chance to stop it. Did it, did it work? We'll find out who doesn't show up to breakfast. I think that that's probably like a little bit more within the spirit of the show. I didn't have a big problem with what James did. I mean, he had the right person and the wrong and the wrong motive. And I know people didn't really love that. But I do think that if they go to bed, I think that that feels a little bit more like the traders. Yeah, I think that I like these psychological implications of that of they did the whole antidote dance to people drank it. And now the remainder of the night, they're all having a meal as if one person could very well be gone tomorrow. And I'd like the idea that they can further try and speculate watching each other of like, who looks suspect? Who looks relieved? Who looks nervous now after the antidote? Yeah, that's interesting to then have it play out where like I kind of thought that that would be the end of the night. Like, okay, well, good night. Where then? Okay, now dessert. Yeah. See how it's going to go. We had a question from somebody and I don't know if we have it pulled up where that they wanted to know how would have gone if and let me know if you see this question. But the question was if hypothetically that let's say jam jam drank the antidote. Yeah. Would Alan have said, hey, jam jam, you're safe? And then it would then made him, I think, a cleared faithful unless that this was some elaborate plan over like, because you know how sometimes the trader or the faithful big brain like, oh, wait, was jam jam a trader and he and that they did the poison to him on purpose. And then he knew about the antidote and then he drank it so that he would so he could say he was definitely a faithful and now we know he's a trader. I think that in the event jam jam drank the antidote. I think that the reveal ends up being my assumption is that no one's murdered. Yes. And I think they don't outright say it was jam jam buddy safe because then that does hard clear him and that doesn't that goes against the game. I think that people can think of it two ways, right? Either they're like, oh my god. So Kristen and jam jam one of them got poisoned or they're like, the traders give it to themselves to throw us off. Um, I think that the paranoia then would would end up increasing. Those are the two ways I could see it going. I don't think outright they clear jam jam off of it. I agree with you. And I think that's the reason why there were two antidotes because I think that then if one of the two players who was the attempted murder victim, then Alan says, Alas, rejoice. The antidote worked. There shall be no murder tonight. And everybody's like, yes, it's like, but, but who was it? Who drank? Who was the person that they tried to murder? And that and I think also they would then spend a lot of time looking at everything those two did, which yeah, yes. And you know how it is. It's like, oh, wait, but wait, we did that like we had now we have to banish them because we have to check to see if, if Natalie or Kristen, they might have been traders. They might be, we might have to take them out now. If we take both out, there's a chance we got a trader. The coffin theory comes back to life. The coffin theory cage theory from the UK. So yeah, definitely like anything that puts you in the spotlight is like, but wait. It could be. So yeah, interesting. So I think that the banquet. There were a lot of things that were interesting about it. I really think that I appreciate the swing. Yeah, I think that I enjoyed it. I think that it's a mechanic that I would like to see brought back again. For sure. Yeah. And I do appreciate that they had the the mind to put some red herrings in there. The cards were there. I think that was huge. I think that stuff like that is good because if you're playing with the cards, I think that stuff like that is good because if you're putting them all in this, it's like putting someone in an escape room and then being like, hey, escape. And you don't know you're like, are these not part of the escape room? Is this wall part of the escape room? What can I touch? What can I not touch? Here, there's no rules. Anything can be the murder weapon. You have to figure it out yourself. Yeah. All right. Pull out. What else did people want to know? Let's see. So the other thing. So outside of the banquet, Rob. A lot of people have been talking about some, you know, the the Candace thing, the Rob thing, we can talk about that more in a second. Which faithful is playing the best game now as, you know, arguably one of the best faithfuls to have been in the game, you know, present company included. I feel like it's a hard question to answer because I feel like we're being shown a lot of the bad faithful gameplay. And I think some of the good faithful gameplays being hidden from us. And by hitting, I don't mean like on purpose, but it's a little bit more in the background currently because not part of the main story. Yeah. It's really hard to determine what is a good faithful because you have Lord Ivar won the game. So is he was he the best faithful in one of the four best faithfuls in season four? In season three, I guess on paper, he was. So that there are faithfuls who advance in the game because they serve the cause of the traders and they are useful pieces on the chessboard for the traders. And then there are faithfuls who have at least to this point disguised themselves as a person who is working in the interests of the traders, but then they have to pick their spot to take off their disguise and say, ah, no, I all along. I had you. And so I think that that's really what the game is of the faithful. And my biggest flaw of the faithful was I, no point did I appear to be someone who was working to advance the interest of the traders. I was too faithful again. That was not what I thought it was going to go. Yeah, I think that. I thought the traders would be throwing me under the bus and saying like, oh, vote banish him. It's so hard to measure a good faithfuls game because you can look at it in so many different ways. You do know when you see it, I think, because for example, who is at least likely to get murdered of the bunch? I think Mora is least likely to get murdered of the bunch. I think that Johnny or Tara potentially least likely to get murdered in the bunch. While Candace is there, I do not think Durinda is going anywhere as far as a murder. So would we say these are good faithful games? They're safe from murder. That's good. I think on the other side who are the safe from banishment people? Well, can you go through the list? Who are the people that are most in danger of murder right now? I think we talked about this a little bit last week. I think people who are not firmly in either camp because you got to pick somebody to go anyway. And I think the people who are the, we will call them the middles here. Erick Named. Not mid by any stretch of the imagination. Erick Named for me is a top candidate to be murdered this upcoming round. I think he's one. I think Stephen Colley now has a bit of sus on him. How much of that has been reverberated around the castle. We'll see, but he's also dagger six a little bit. Maybe not him. I think Kristen, I'm a little bit worried about Mark. I could potentially be a little worried about. Mark is in a very interesting spot because I almost want to say he's one of our better faithfuls here. Not being looked at as a suspect for banishment. Potentially could be a great recruit pick by the traders if they want to go that direction. But also I could see him getting murdered. So, you know, it's like two out of three is still, you know, there's a flaw there. It feels like that we're in a part of the season where it's sort of like, okay, starting to enter like the two thirds point where the traders are going to be doing some murders that are just going to be like, well, they'll never see the why that happened. I don't throw them off. And I think that this is an interesting part of the game for the traders because up until this point, the traders have and do have a lot of opportunity to murder anybody for any reason. Once you get closer to the end game or middle point, it's like, well, I can't have this person get murdered. I need them or this person can't go. They have suspicion on him. So your hand is a lot more limited. Yeah. The later you get as a trader because typically the traders don't stare down the barrel. The gun and go, you know what? No, I'm going to go ballsy. I'm just going to take out Tara Lapinski and deal with it. I don't think, you know, can is a ever going to do that. Yeah, it really is. There is a big luck part of being a faithful where to survive through this point of the game with like, you know, in the early part of the game, I think we can sort of identify like, okay, don't make these specific mistakes. But now you're at a point in the game where the traders, there might be two, might be three. They're going to say, like, okay, I'm going to protect my specific people. So you really have to have a very close relationship with a trader to not even necessarily that you know that they're a trader. Oh, like, that's my trader angel. But you do need somebody looking out for you in the turret at this point. Yeah, absolutely. I think that if you want to look at it, I haven't an analogy for this. So let's say you're working in a company, right? And you might not be the employee of the month. You're not working, you know, you're working fine, but you're not working that hard. You're not like, you're, you're replaceable for sure. However, you are now part of the boss's poker nights every Tuesday. You pull up, you put the chips down, you have some beers. So as long as you're in the good graces of the boss, you ain't going anywhere. I think that is kind of the faithful luck that needs to be there. Is that, okay, I'm not that good as an employee, but the boss fucks with me. So like, maybe I could, you know, not get, I'm not going to go anywhere here in the event that anything happens. Something else that I would say is a self criticism. I felt like that I needed to cover as much ground as possible. Hey, there's 22 other people here. I got to check in with everybody. I want to be good with everybody. And I think that what you most likely need to do, there's not a ton of time in the day to be able to work the relationships. I think you're better off like having four deep relationships as opposed to 22 good relationships. I do understand that for sure. I think it's tough, especially in the beginning, because you don't know who is the trader that could murder you, right? So you could gamble and be a little bit more of a closer breath thing. But then I do fear that you end up in a position like a Donna Kelsey where it's like, you got like two shooters. But then everyone else is very okay with you going. But at the end of the day, if somebody's willing to go to bat for you, and again, we've talked about like this is a luck game. Oh, how luck. Yes. If everybody likes you, but nobody's willing to go to bat for you, that's no good either. And so I'm not even saying that you are going to be able to pick out the four traders, but you know, put your chips on the table. Make some bets that find the people that you really vibe with. And I think really vibe with them really say, okay, you're my person, you know, for better or for worse. And try to go all in with a few people and maybe one of those four is fighting for you. Yeah. And I just threw the number four out there. It's not a specific number. But I think that you're better off having deep relationships than wide relationships. And I know that's a little counterintuitive, but I just look back and I wasn't there for that long. But I think that, you know, I and I was working on like a few deep relationships, but I think that I was really trying to, okay, let me go check out this room. Let me go check out this room. And I think you're probably a little better off of really trying to go, you know, really deep with a few people. Well, especially I do think that, you know, you look at some players here and how much goodwill they have early on. Like some of like Colton who had a lot of goodwill early, if you are like number two on Colton's list of people he's messing with the most, then you're safe for the most part. Because your name comes up. He's like, I really don't think that's the case because he has a lot of influence. People are like, okay, we have not, we can stay off of that. That one person could be all you need to have longevity in the game. So I do think that's something also worth considering. Absolutely. Because if it's the right people that you've invested in, then and they have enough influence, they can cover the rest of the people that you don't have all that connection with at the moment. Yeah. And I think you also need those deep relationships for the end game where you need people who, you know, assuming there are other faithfuls that you can really trust when you head towards the fire of truth. People, I know this person is good and you have people who are really like going to bat for you. If they are a trader, they're keeping you safe. If they are faithful, you can count on them in the fire of truth that they're not going to, you know, flip the script on you and vote you out because they think you're a trader. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, it's an interesting thought exercise because I do think that we talk about the social game being the, the most important element of the traders. But I think not enough has been spoken about, but does that mean be friends to all or be friends to few and which few. And if we're talking about who's doing a really good job, I really do think that Natalie has done a very good job in the season and things are starting to turn on her a little bit because she's not in that big group that we talked about that Johnny group where jam jam even talked about it in his exit interview a little bit when he was talking about himself. That he was saying that there were people that they were sort of like he was kind of being frozen out because that they thought that he was a trader. And now you see that okay, now that he's gone, there's some thought like okay, well, it has to be one of the game people. Okay, obviously, maybe it's Natalie. Let's look at her. But she does have like a couple of deep relationships in the game and one is with Colton and the other is with Rob. And again, two very influential people, beloved people. So well, not so I mean, again, Colton has spent a lot of social capital here and is being looked at. But I think that we we celebrated her last week because I do think that it is not easy to have that much heat on you and then be able to change minds live at the round table and also to make people feel like, okay, I feel better about her. Because to your point, if I'm the only gamer remaining now, I am breaking it. I'm like, okay, my time is coming. They're going to be looking at me. And I think that she recognized that overnight, the one benefit of the jam jam leaving during the banquet is that Natalie had all the lack to figure out how I want to bounce back. And she nailed that. She bounced back. She put that that social game that Sarra explained into work. And she, I think, is in a great spot now. I think she's one of the people that is not going to get murdered as long as Rob raps just in that in that turret. And I also think that she is garnered enough good will that she should be safe. My only concern with Natalie is that if she does get to a final final four, do you then just pull the trigger because what if she is the one gamer that was a traitor all along? Does that met a game come into play one last time? I mean, I'm sure that people are still like there you saw she was going to get a lot of votes at the round table. So now that Lisa is gone, like, are there still that contingent of people that are saying to look to Natalie, if she gets to that point, you know, I would imagine maybe she has overcome that hurdle. Yeah, I for now, I feel like the ones you have suspicion on you in this game, you always have to think about the idea that it's going to come back up again. Someone else might decide to refresh it. So you got to be ready for when the time comes. We're into the thick of the season now and so does Carl's reward shaker with even bigger rewards and offers. The half and half scoffers shaking decisively for once. They backed a super boost. Next to them, the poor sandwich brigade. All they've shaken up a free bet up to that free lunch. Play Carl's free reward shaker to win bigger guaranteed daily reward and offers this season. Carl, we're here for it. 18 plus UK max, one reward offer per player per day. ATM to 8 pm, reward restrictions and teasing season plan. Gamblingware.org. Listen up. Huh? That means you. Yes, you. We know you're pointing at yourself. When it comes to party power games, we've got a place made for all sorts. From the experts to the drama queens. It's made the JC. The finance bros. Look at those stokes, lads. We'll stick with slots. It's what we're good at. And not forgetting you. Yes, you, the one listening. Because at party power games, we've got all sorts of games for all sorts of tree coals. eligibility rules in terms of conditions apply. Please camera responsibly. Aatmplastcamelawair.org. What are some other questions from the listeners? Alright, let's see. Um, alright, Rob, do you want to talk a little bit more specifically about the Candace verse Rob thing? Fire away. Alright. So in our opinion, was it smart of Candace to vote for Rob if Candace is banished? Will they question Rob? So this two partner. I feel like this person may have answered their question a little bit from where I'm standing because I think that now that we know a little bit of extra context of Candace saying it's consistent with a faithful for me to question Rob. After Rob was quiet this whole time, I think that we called it a warning shot for a reason because if now Rob pushes Candace and they go back and revisit Candace's votes, they will look at the vote that she threw Rob's way. And they could see that as a problem as a trader on trader on trader, perhaps. So I think that for that reason, I'm not mad at it because to me, it's an insurance card of, hey, work with me. Work with me and we don't have to ever find out what happens if I leave. So I'm not mad at it. I get that it's petty or I get that it might further ensure that Rob won't work with her. But also I just watched Rob decimate my closest one of our closest allies. Why do I think he's going to not do that to me either. So I personally didn't love it. And it's not how I would have operated where I think that you don't necessarily want your opponent to know that you're coming. And I mean, Candace is, I think very savvy, very strategic, but I think that she ends up really like alerting Rob that, hey, she's not going to be messed with and she's coming for him. Robby Bobby is in trouble. And so I didn't like it from that standpoint. Like I don't mind necessarily that she's going for him. But I think that she tips him off. So now we are in this situation where, okay, she's had it with him. She could be going for him. She's probably going for him. We see her talking to Johnny at the end of the episode about trying to get her people together. But he knows that she's coming. And so now he has a chance to prep his people where I think that what works the best and I'll reference Boston Rob and Bob the drag queen. When Boston Rob wanted to go trade on trader with Bob the drag queen, it was an ambush that Rob tried to get people together. But then Bob the drag queen didn't know it was coming at the roundtable and then wasn't able to then get six or seven people together to then be ready for Boston Rob. I think that what you want to do in these trade on trader situations and we saw with Rob with Lisa, he told Lisa during the day. Yeah, I'm just going to do what I'm going to do and I'm going to try just like sit here and yeah, I'll work to diffuse things if they come up. But in private, he was getting people ready to go for Lisa. Yeah, well, I think that that's the thing right is that Rob at that point has built a army is building an army and is about to nail a trader which should clear him make him seem like a lead detective now. Similar to what Boston Rob wrote a little bit after getting Bob the drag queen out. So if your can is you're like, I'm about to lose a lot of people here. And I, while I do agree with you that giving Rob the heads up probably isn't great because now he can spend a lot of time figuring out, okay, how do I pivot us to Candace next? I do like it from a just so we're clear. I see what you're doing. I don't like it and you're going to have to answer for this with me later. I do like it from that regard because I'm with you. If I'm a Candace issues, I wouldn't want to play this way either, but I'm happy that she did because it's more fun for us. More fun for us. And I don't want to be hypocritical because Rob voted for Lisa Rina at the last roundtable. So he did the same exact thing or similar thing that we're talking about that Candace made a mistake. I mean, Candace was a little bit more out on an island as she was the only vote for Rob. And so he took that more personally, but he did end up voting for Lisa and then did. I mean, we might well see where Candace goes back to him. He's like, oh, no, no, no, I'm just like I just did that. Don't worry. It's fine. We'll clean this up and then acts just like he acted after the last vote, but it does feel like that this is really on. I wonder was it a misstep for Lisa and for Candace after the last roundtable where Rob wrote down Lisa's name should Lisa and Candace have been more proactive instead of trying to pursue. Let's get Natalie banished. Should they have when the dagger six are all out should they have pursued Rob is a trainer. I don't think so. I think I think for them, the motivations they were running with was they still want to make this a one big happy family thing. So I don't think and I think that it's simply then we're really getting into the Dan putting Fadre's name out. Like there was nothing connecting Rob to anything. I think you've talked about how you never expected him because he was eating Oreos and hanging out playing chess. And I think that's probably still a lot of things for everybody else. So it would have been a hard sell a hard hard sell to go in. It would be like if I if I someone came in here was evidence. Yeah, it was like, you know, I think I think Sam Moore's running this entire operation. Sam Moore, how is Sam Moore running the operation is clearly the operation. Yeah, huh? A lot of people think that like I just use Sam's name because his name is in front of me. But like, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's just one of those things where I feel like that would have been a very hard sell. And while I do think it would have put Robin danger, it would not have pushed Rob ahead of Lisa in the suspicion pile. But the history of the traitors have the traitors ever had a falling out and then put it back together. It seems like that yes, they they have. They have. Um, and I don't want to tell you I know you know which season, but I don't want to bring it up in case other people don't know or don't be don't piece it together. We have had traitor on trader happen and then trade on trade get rescinded. It has happened before. But it's rare. Oh, it's usually likely once there's a fracture, the fracture becomes a canyon. And so I wonder if for Lisa and for Candice, if they look back and say, you know, really we should have while there were two of us and one of him, we had a chance to really throw him under the bus. Yeah, it's like playing spades. Once you break suit, it's over. Like the people are like you're going to end up seeing this happen. This is why I'm like a happy trade a happy turret is a happy game. Because the minute one of you throws the other under the bus, such a good role. Yeah, you're all going to be pushing each other. It's just going to be mess. Yeah. And so I think the original sin comes back to Rob casting his vote for Lisa. Yeah, Rob really wanted to have it all. And I think I've seen a lot of people Rob talk about how well Rob was consistently good with Ron and with Colton. It would make no sense for him to vote either. I still maintain a part of me still maintains that Ron Funches was just on the way out. And I think that if Rob votes that way and then does his and people will remember this remember the moment in love Island when they voted out his girl and he got all sad about it and rolled his eyes. You could have pulled that off your sympathy car per like y'all made me vote for him. I never thought he was bad. But it would have been fine and he keeps both sides happy. He could have voted for Ron. It was no problem. I think that he was getting pressure more from Colton of that. Colton was Colton and Natalie were both so all in on Lisa. I think that that's what the issue was where his allies were very much down the road of the Lisa. I don't know if they had said didn't hey, we can count on you at the round table, right? You're going to vote for you're going to vote for Lisa, right? And so he wanted to then make it look like I couldn't vote for Ron. I love Ron so much. And so I think it was more peer pressure from people that were his close allies. I think so too. I think there's definitely a part of that as well. I think that maybe and for me, I understand all that maybe the one gripe I have for this. And was hoping that Lisa had enough votes where he was peer pressure and also yeah. There was not enough guarantee that Lisa was leaving, which is a very risky choice and to vote her and then she stays. He might have been making a wish on the coin and it didn't come up his way. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What else do listeners want to know? Let's see. Okay. So do we think because I think a lot of people are seeing this game right now as Rob is the traitor in the lead, which I do agree with. I think like we've said, Candace is no slouch. Rob, what can Candace do to swing this to her benefit is the question we are presenting. Well, we went through the numbers the other day. And I think that we came up with the point that if she can spin this that that seemed traitor on trader of that going after Lisa. And I think that what she's trying to sell is that Colton and Rob are the other two traders and they're working close together and that it was Colton knew it like that was really traitor on trader and Rob's also part of it. The issue is that if that's what she's trying to sell, I think people are much more convinced of like, okay, well, Colton, let's get out Colton then. And she's going to be like, no, no, no, no, Colton later. We need Rob now. Though we know about Colton, we should check Rob though. We should check what Colton does. Because I do think this is the big worry is that if no recruitment's happened and then they push Colton and they get Colton out, Colton is not a trader. So then that will cause them to dissolve all of that and look elsewhere, probably. They're not going to go, all right, well, let's get Rob also and then see where we land really. Unless, you know, the Johnny numbers become a new group that doesn't have Robin it and they're like, okay, we can go that way. So yeah, for sure. Yeah, so for me, yeah, I think that the trader on trader thing is the best argument. And I think right now if Candace can have someone like Johnny push that narrative out more also that helps better than if Candace is the one immediately now pedaling because I feel like it would be kind of out of character for Candace to start pushing that name aggressively. So I feel like, let other people do the work and just just see what happens. Yeah, but is Johnny going to really prosecute a trader at the round table? We haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen it yet. And I still think that I think realistically it's still Colton is still number one on the list. I don't think they're going to go for Rob. So we'll see how they paint it and how they look at it. And if they truly do look at it as, all right, well, these are our numbers. These are their numbers. Whatever we'll see. But I think from Candace aside, all she can do is, like you said, just push out the trade on trader thing potentially and then see where we go from there. Okay. Yeah. Another question here for you, Rob, for us, rather, is between the, so we've seen a lot of duos, a lot of alliances here get cut, get separated. We really have a couple that are still in there. The biggest couple coming into this were Johnny and Tara get ready to be the Olympics on peacock. How is that like two days away? How close are you? I think Friday is the opening ceremony. And so yeah, Johnny and Tara that they are big figures in the figure skating for peacock and NBC. Who do we think leaves first amongst the two? Who's going to who has the longevity in the game between the two of them? If I had to pick between the two, Johnny has been more vocal. And so I feel like that makes him more likely to be murdered and more likely to be banished. Johnny is in my top list of if Candace leaves Johnny's murdered immediately. I always say, yeah, but it's just because of what you said. I think he's been the more vocal person there. We've not seen him go all out at the round table. It just feels like it's brewing though. I feel like Johnny's been finding his voice more and more. So I could see him doing that. And I think he's protected by Candace. So I think Tara is in it for the long haul. I picture Tara at the final fire of truth. But I feel like that Johnny is less likely to get banished because I think that he is the person we've heard him talk two or three times about the numbers of he's really I think he's like Sandra with the pool balls of like, hey, if we have our group, we're good at the round table. We control the round table. Yeah, I just I feel like for me, I can picture a narrative. I can picture a world where we come to breakfast. Johnny doesn't show up. Camera cuts the Tara Tara is big mad. I just I can feel it. Well, she's way that's no, not absolutely not. She better not. She's one of God's. I'm not doing this alone. Absolutely not. Goodbye, everybody. Yeah. Rob, you want to talk about the dagger a little bit more. Sure. Okay. So we got a question here. Do you think Natalie purposely was blatant in her dagger light? She seems so obvious. I can see two reasons to do so one to appear bad at line. So she seems faithful or to avoid the dagger attention. Now this is interesting. I will say we're really looking at Natalie and positive light to look at it this way. I think it's like 4d level chess going on. I think if you're Natalie and you're allies with Rob, there is no wrong situation here. I'm the last person he's questioning. So either Rob gets it or I get it. And the dagger was between the two of us. It's fine. I think that the questioner was very charitable. Yes. I think that Natalie might be a little better when she has some personal animosity and dislike for who she's going against. So I think that you did we're not getting Natalie's a game in that spot. If it was somebody that if it was Michael rap report questioning her. Natalie give it there. She's not smiling. So I don't think that she was intentionally trying to give it to Rob. But I think that she was not necessarily giving you her full force Natalie in that moment. Yeah, I don't think so either. I just I'm very curious for the faithfuls in that group. And how they're going to feel if Rob just holds on to this dagger for two more cycles and isn't murdered. At what point do you start looking at Rob as a suspect because he's still in the game because he now has come up full force. I wonder if they're saying like, well, we know our group is good because Rob didn't get murdered. That would be like that would be like entirely too trusting of their group. I will say, but also or would they look at him be like, hmm, kind of weird that Rob hasn't been murdered. Could he be the trader? All right. Well, as long as this group gets to the end, that's fine. We have a trader in our midst will be okay. Both equally interesting strategies to play out. I just feel like Rob has and that was my biggest worry and my biggest like criticism of him is that he has the dagger now. He now has pushed out a trader hard. If he doesn't get murdered, well, people start looking at him and I think that could happen. I would say that based off of what I've seen so far, I don't feel like that there's a ton of 4D chess that the faithful are playing at this point from what we've seen. Yeah, I mean, I think playing 40 chess is exhausting also with the traders because the exact same things you're pinning someone for are the exact same reasons why they're innocent and vice versa. Every, like every coin has two sides with the traders and every person you could use the same argument for against. So it's tough. It's a lot. Okay. Anything else on your mind before we get to episode eight coming up on Thursday night. Rob episode eight, I know they said the banquet was the biggest episode. I genuinely think episode eight is our biggest episode. Because I think that depending on who gets murdered, who gets banished, if they recruit, this episode could decide who is going to make the run at the end. Because I think right now we do have a very, very close race. Rob trader win on the table, Candace trader win on the table. Faithfuls coming out of nowhere to grab this victory very much on the table for me. There's mutually assured destruction is also on the table. Exactly. Exactly. You know, where we could end up where traders win this season and it's not Rob or Candace. That's the other one, the recruited trader win, which amongst this group, I'd be very intrigued to see who that could be. But it's all on the table. It's a live game and I'm very excited about it. Because I feel like some other seasons we have seen where very early on is like, all right, well, they ain't going to make it. So who's going to who else is going to take this anything goes here. I would say right now my rankings are Rob Candace. Recruited trader. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We'll see. So we have our exit interview coming up with Lisa Rina on Tuesday. So be sure to be on the lookout for that. Of course, we'll be live again after the episode around 1015-ish or so on. Although last week's episode was like an hour and 10 minutes. Super size episode. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see if we get a bigger episode this time or not. Okay. And then of course, we have all of the survivor 50 coverage as well where Mike Bloom went to Fiji and got interviews with the survivor 50. And so Mike and I have been talking about each of the tribes. And so that's been very fun. All that is up on Rob is podcast. So make sure you're subscribed and we love to read your comments. Plus we had a great podcast talking about the traders UK season four with Puyah and Annabelle and myself. And so very fun to go through all of that. Puyah, what else is coming up for you? Well, I am talking about everything and anything with Leon over in the Puyah and Leon alone. So make sure you're all to an end of that. We had Anna Belon as our guest. You can find me on all socials at Puyah is them to which side to be such Puyah form where I'm not podcasting. And yeah, I'm excited to see where we go from here up because this is the make or break week, potentially for some people. All right. All you listeners in the comments. How do you think it's going to work out? Let us know and let us know how we did with our takes here today looking forward to seeing how it all plays out to care. Take care everybody. Good one. Bye.