S6 E11 – The Carr Family - When Aggressive Is the Only Option

all right hey everyone uh welcome back to softcast i want to welcome to our show major david carr and lauren carr i'm super excited to be able to talk to you guys uh welcome thanks for taking the time thank you for having us absolutely well one of the things that you hear us talk about in special operations a lot is taking care of our people, whether it's leadership talking about it at the lowest levels, at the highest levels. And obviously, if you've listened to the show, it's one of the things that we focus on the most. And taking care of our people takes a lot of, you know, there's a lot of different levels to that. But one of the most important ones is to provide a safety net for anyone that's wounded, ill, or injured and make sure that we have their back. And you guys have a very, very important story to share about your own personal journey. I want to start back from that just slightly and kind of get us into the portion where you get into special forces. So I know you guys met in the Q course, uh, talk me through a little bit, David, kind of joining why you wanted to become a green beret, all those things, and kind of get us to the point where you and Lauren get it, get together. I think the, uh, where I would start that cognitively is that I did not go into the army uh dead set on I'm going to go you know be a Green Beret I want to really want to get into special forces it's not something that I it's not a thought I had in my mind the day I commissioned uh it wasn't necessarily intention I just you know it got to the point where I got the emails that hey this is your your opportunity and I've said for a long time that job interviews of all kinds go two ways. So I very much went to selection with the open mind and without a strong decision that I was confident that that's what I wanted to do. But going and the experience that I had at selection definitely solidified that decision for me that I really enjoyed the atmosphere and the kind of people that I found myself around and knew that I wanted to spend more time with in that community. Yeah, absolutely. Lauren, there pretty quickly after selection in the Special Forces Qualification course, you guys meet up. Talk me through kind of coming into the soft world from the spouse perspective. Yeah. So Dave and I met at the gym. We are morning workout people. So we were at the 530 a.m. 530 a.m. class. So, you know, just struck up conversation, went on our first date to Chipotle and that kind of solidified that kind of solidified solidified our relationship and kicked us off. I actually have worked as a government contractor surrounding the special operations community for the last 14 years. But coming into it from a spouse perspective is certainly an entirely an entirely different different adventure when you're you know, your loved one is going overseas and deploying and frequently. It's a bit different than providing, you know, providing support to the force. So, yeah, as much as I would like to, I definitely don't get credit for bringing Lauren. She was there along before I was. Tell me at least sprung for like guacamole on the Chipotle day, you know, at least got the upcharge, you know, double meat or something, you know. Always guacamole. All right. Fair enough. Well, as you then moved to 10th Special Forces Group, talk me through kind of as a couple. Now we're in the Special Forces community together, all those things, and then kind of lead us up to ultimately the diagnosis that really changed everything. Right. So that was a bit of a tall order on on my on my side asking Lauren. And so we got married kind of on the way out to Colorado. So in the midst of, you know, COVID, I asked her to essentially move across the country and restart a lot of things out out west. And by the way, you can't go out and make friends like you normally would. And you have to work from home and you're stuck in the house a lot of the time. So that was definitely a challenge. The perfect proposal, right, Lauren? It was, yeah. Yes. And our wedding was just the two of us. Absolutely. Well, as you get into team life and all of that, ultimately, you get that shocking news that no one expects. All of a sudden, brain cancer. Right. That is, you know, not part of the Q course is expecting that. Right. So talk me through sort of the lead up to that and the ultimate diagnosis, and then we'll get into the story of all that. So by the time we got that news, we actually moved back to North Carolina from Colorado. We were already back here. I came back to North Carolina to participate in a grad school program through NDU that's hosted here at Fort Bragg. And I was about a month out from graduating that program when we eventually got the news. And fortunately, my brain tumor was not cancerous. It was just an inconvenient mass of skin cells that were growing in absolutely the wrong place. Inconvenient indeed. Yeah. Yeah. So we had noticed when we when we were in Colorado, we had noticed that Dave had started, you know, losing his balance. He would have episodes where he would kind of seize up and he wouldn't be able to talk. He expressed kind of concerns with driving because he was experiencing double vision. And it started, you know, right before we left Colorado. And with each with each episode, it got progressively worse. and you know we we kind of assumed like hey you know we're not we're not in our 20s anymore we can't just you know go out and crush it and do a hard workout because most of the time his episodes were on the heels of a really hard workout but the last episode that finally sent us to the emergency room he hadn't worked out in a couple days because he hadn't been feeling well which you know we found out was because of the tumor and so he he collapsed at a family friend's retirement party and hit his head on a door on his way down. And so as we, you know, turned him over and we're trying to help him up, he was trying to talk to me and he was slurring his words. And I was like, this, this is, it's time. It's time. So when we did the, the MRI, they, they told us like you, you have, it was an epidermoid tumor, which like Dave said, is a mass of skin cells that had, that had been there for a really long time. And it had just been, had grown to the point to where it was pressing against his brain, which is why he became symptomatic. And so from flash to bang, it was, you know, three weeks from diagnosis to this has to come out. And when they told us that, you know, Dave, Dave looked at me when it was just the two of us at the emergency room and said, when aggressive is your only option, I guess aggressive, aggressive it is. Because if it continued to grow, it would, it would eventually, it would eventually kill him. So it had to come out. Yeah. Three weeks flash to bang is incredibly aggressive, right? Even as a strong family at that moment, you know, you've been together through years at this point, you know, what's kind of going through your mind as you start making those preparations? Because that's not a, hey, we got six months. That's a like, let's look for a doctor and get an OR booked immediately. That's a crazy timeline. We were definitely in the mode of crisis planning. So we weren't, you know, trying to, you know, plan things long-term. We knew that whatever we were doing, you know, had to be quick to the point where someone like pointed us towards going that OR now, like I would have walked that way. Yeah, it was definitely, we were really lucky that as we roped in 10th group to help support us through this journey, a very close friend of ours was serving as the HPW commander And he immediately moved us in with the SOCOM Care Coalition because Dave's Dave's diagnosis, the potential outcomes were such a range. They pretty well told us like, hey, it's so intertwined in your blood vessels and pressing against your brain that inevitably you're going to have some kind of residual impact mentally, emotionally, physically. like it's going to impact you. But it could potentially range from minor disability to you could have a stroke through to how they described it was higher risk of death with this surgery. So once we were able to engage with the SOCOM Care Coalition, Miss Barbara took a lot of time to walk us through what the potential recovery options were for us with Dave. you know, hey, if you have a stroke, then the James Haley Center in Tampa is one of the best facilities to help with that. If you have, you know, this issue with it, we can link you up with this organization. Hey, if you need to rehab PT, this is what we're going to do. And she was really the only person throughout that process who had that discussion with us of, you know, what resources we were going to have available to us. And she was the one that was like, hey, you know, it's not a fun conversation to have, but you guys need to talk about ensuring that all your administrative requirements are in place. Do you have passwords? Do you have documents? Do you have a will? Do you have a power of attorney? Just those gentle reminders of like, hey, I get it. Like you're drowning. Your entire lives have changed at the drop of a hat. But like, you got to think about these things and we got to plan for them because we don't know. We don't know what's next. I actually had an interesting conversation with. So I work in the First Special Warfare training group right now here at Bragg. And I was talking to our group surgeon and she was asking me, you know, who is overall in charge of your care plan deciding, you know, what you do and why? And I told her, well, the first answer I probably have for you is Lauren. And, you know, but behind that is probably Barbara Severino with the SOCOM Care Coalition because, you know, what our experience has been is that every doctor that we've ran into throughout this process has been very, very good at their, you know, pulling on their oar in the boat and, you know, doing their job very well. But no doctor that we ran into wanted to be the one steering the boat, deciding, you know, what to do next. And the only person managing what the long-term plan was, was the SOCOM Care Coalition. And we're very grateful for, you know, someone being there willing to raise their hand and say, you know, I'll figure out this problem. Yeah, absolutely. It's such a critical resource. You know, a lot of people, I think, when they first learn about kind of the Warrior Care Program, Care Coalition, all of that, you know, a lot of it was sprung from early GWAT, having people in the hospital that had been combat wounded, but it was immediately apparent that that was the not the only need right we had people that were everything from your story to you know a car accident whatever it was and like you said there's there's good health care providers able to do their specialty but a lot of these are multimodal and can take years and it there was a gap there, 100%, where we needed people who are willing to dive in and be connectors, but also kind of leaders and shepherds throughout these processes. And so I know if you're listening from outside and you're not familiar with the Warrior Care Program, this is taking care of our people when they're wounded, ill, and injured through advocates that are placed at every one of the major soft hubs. And then there's some folks that do regional coordination. if there's somebody that's kind of outside of that main area. And Ms. Barbro was your care coalition advocate. Talk to me a little bit about your experience being able to have that resource to lean on. It was absolutely invaluable. You know, we've sought through our story to stress, we were admittedly best case scenario that this could have happened to. Um, we've been married for a while. We're older. We don't have kids. We're financially secure. I was able to keep my job. I have worked around this community my entire career. So I understood the language and the culture and the lingo and the acronyms. And so there was a lot of things that I could navigate myself. I took on a lot of conversations with Dave's current command, with with 10th Group, with his school, you know, with he was doing ILE. And I was able to reach out and be like, hey, like, I don't want him to lose his progress when he comes out of this. Right. And it's because of my experience, you know, that I was able to do that. So what we sought to stress was the care coalition was absolutely invaluable to us with with all the advantages that we had at our disposal. We still faced so many uphill challenges with administrative requirements, bureaucracy, right? Policies that are put in place that sound good on paper, but to a military spouse is entirely overwhelming when you're asking them to fill out 15 pages of paperwork to get reimbursement when they're in the middle of, you know, trying to support their loved one through this medical emergency. And and so what we've sought to, you know, to really highlight is how instrumental the care coalition was for us in helping us to navigate that, because every single time some challenge came up, you know, my you know, when we had family members around, they'd be like, Lauren, what are you going to do about that? And I'm like, I'm going to call Miss Barbara. Miss Barbara is going to fix it. And just to be able to know that somebody was there that I could call or email and say, I can't. I don't have the bandwidth to try to navigate this and figure this out. Please help me. And she would just say, I got it. Don't worry about it. And so to be able to offload that mental and emotional burden and just be able to solely focus on Dave's recovery, because during during the surgery, Dave had a stroke. And so he lost the ability to move the left side of his body. And so it was months of recovery of, you know, exercises and moving Dave's arm and moving his leg and helping him stand and helping him learn how to hold his head up. And they stress to us how critical it was that family members support is so important to recovery And if I had just been standing in the hallway on the phone trying to fight with bureaucracy and administrative requirements and not being able to be there to support him I truly don know that his recovery would have been as successful as it was And so even with everything that we had going for us, having the CARE Coalition as a resource was truly just absolutely invaluable. Yeah, absolutely. So you get the diagnosis, you guys are in North Carolina, I believe you end up having the surgery at Wake Forest, correct? Talk to me about, again, being able to have the surgery come out of it. And then I think you guys did the rehab elsewhere, right? And so had to move from place to place, like all of that is logistically tough, if you're not in the worst situation of your life, much less trying to do it under these circumstances. So talk me through some of those challenges as you went to Wake Forest and then moved elsewhere. Yeah, little tasks like getting in and out of a car and traveling point A to point B is difficult when you're dependent on a wheelchair in order to get in and out of convenience or to get a drink or something like that. but the way we ended up at wake forest was we initially went to first health here in Pinehurst to the ER there and the neurosurgeon we first talked to just happened to mention he's like I studied under this neurosurgeon over at wake forest like it'd be really cool if you guys ended up there we're like sounds good to us we'll go you know tell us how to get there yeah we want we want the best that you've got. And so, you know, as we, this was over a weekend on a Saturday that this happened. And so they took us being an ambulance up to Wake Forest. And so by Sunday night, you know, we had, we had the diagnosis, we had the plan for moving forward. And by Tuesday, you know, the care coalition was involved and we were like, we need referrals because Wake Forest wanted to do baselines for everything, hearing, vision, swallowing, ear, nose, and throat, because they wanted to know what was going on right now and then what it was going to look like after the surgery. So we needed referrals for all of those specialists. And so, you know, we're trying to get the primary care team caught up with like, hey, this is what happened. Ms. Barber's trying to help us facilitate getting all those referrals in a timely manner, getting the referrals for the surgery. You know, while again, we're trying to mitigate our now upside down lives to plan for all of these potential outcomes. So we did land, we landed at Wake Forest. And initially, we spent the first six weeks of Dave's rehab at a facility in Winston-Salem. And one of the things with that is they're not used to active duty service members. And they're used to VA, which is a totally different system. And so Miss Barbara had to do a lot to help administratively to help the facility navigate active duty requirements for what they needed to do. And, And, you know, it's one of the other things that we look at as one of our advantages was, you know, had we not had a care advocate as experienced as Miss Barbara, what a struggle, you know, what a struggle that would have been as well. So, yes, we once we realized that Dave had had a stroke after the first six weeks, Dave ended up having to have a second surgery because the fluid built up on his brain and he needed a brain shot. And so Miss Barbara had to help us get all of the referrals to that, which meant we then had to redo all of the referrals to try to get to James Haley in Tampa because our timeline had shifted. But, yeah, it was logistically we were denied medical transportation to transfer Dave from Winston-Salem to Florida. And so in those weeks leading up to us traveling, I had to learn how to transfer him in and out of the car to his wheelchair, you know, to the restroom. We were going to have to break the drive up into two days. So how to transfer him on and off a bed in a hotel. So, you know, as we're as we're trying to prepare to uproot our lives and move to Florida for an unknown amount of time, you know, I'm now required to learn to learn how to do that. And that was when I got hit with the if you'd like reimbursement for patient transfer, here's 15 pages of paperwork that you have to fill out. you know your hotel has to be within per diem you need a command letter um saying that he needs patient transfer and and it just it became one of those things for me where i was like this isn't this isn't worth my effort and energy to get the reimbursement and so we just ate the cost and again not everybody can afford that right so it's it's one of those that like i get it we have to fill out this paperwork we want to you know cross our t's and dot our i's and do what we're supposed to be doing but to a to a spouse who doesn't know like how do i find a per diem rate for a hotel I don't I don't know what that means. Right. Like that's that's a pretty significant ask. And some people couldn't couldn't afford to just dismiss it the way that we did. So logistically, it was it was really hard to get from Wake Forest to to Tampa. But we were so grateful that, you know, per usual, Miss Barbara stepped in and helped us deal with all of the referrals. She arranged housing for me at the Fisher House. So as soon as we got to James Haley, I was greeted by a social worker. that was assigned just to me as the family member who, you know, walked me over to the Fisher house, helped me check in while Dave was getting settled into the hospital. So yeah, logistically, it was a pretty significant undertaking to get from North Carolina down to Florida. Absolutely. And the Fisher houses are amazing. You know, I know when my dad was sick, we stayed in the same one here in Tampa, right by the Haley VA, and just phenomenal people. that run that organization, that run those houses to provide a living space free of charge for folks that are going through these issues. It's an amazing resource. But if you don't know how to get tapped into it and you don't have somebody to be able to walk into it, it can be just another thing in that logistical chain. As you came down here to the Haley VA and you started working through that long process, Talk me through, you know, with the rehab and all of those things, your experience of going through, you know, as you talked about earlier, trying to start from scratch in a lot of ways of rebuilding, you know, Dave's motor function, his ability to walk, all those things. What was your experience during that time frame? i i definitely had to start from a pretty basic uh place where you know the the first goals that we had really had to do with like i had a hard time communicating or coordinating between the left and right side of my body so like cutting up food with a fork and knife was a challenge for me than really anything, you know, to do with moving left hand, you know. I got kind of tired of doctor I didn't know walking into my room and asking me, go ahead and squeeze my hand with your left hand. And I'm like, you know I can't do that. Can you wiggle your toes in your left foot for me? I'm like, you also know I can't do that. Also, no. So getting to the point where I could do those things. And, you know, that was an adjustment, you know, getting used to my workout for the day with PT. you know, might have involved just like climbing and descending stairs for, you know, a while. So I needed to go to the point where I could reestablish a lot of those very basic movement patterns required to support daily living. And, you know, I think that James A. Haley Polytrauma Center was absolutely the right place in order to do that. I made some progress when we were in the rehab center in Winston-Salem, but that particular place was very intentionally catered to a certain population, which was mostly older people who were focused on just, you know, getting home and doing daily functions. Whereas going down in James Hilley, they understood that I was aiming a little higher than that population. and they interestingly enough have like a 40-foot rock wall at their facility which they let me get on pretty much every week when I was there so I was grateful for that opportunity and they understood that I was aiming for different goals than the population of patients up in Winston-Salem at that rehab center. Yeah and the the staff in Winston-Salem obviously recognized that Dave was not their typical patient and they made every effort to go get him for extra sessions you know give him things to do in between like they're like hey this guy's in his 30s he's an active duty soldier like we're gonna we're gonna invest in him and do the things but like dave was just saying james haley is certainly designed to try to help service members you know get back to get back to where they were and be able to to get back to their daily lives um so everything they have was just state-of-the-art You know, treadmills that have a harness on them that project lines onto the base of the treadmill. And, you know, you have to walk and step over or veer side to side. You know, just the staff there was incredible. They were able to incorporate music therapy for Dave because he plays the guitar. So being able to, you know, be able to regain that function and do something that he loves. And yes, like he mentioned, the rock wall was a very big, very big selling point to us for going to Tampa. Absolutely. Yeah. James A. Haley, phenomenal. You know, I spent several weeks there myself doing the prep program and seeing everything that they had to offer and help me out a ton with some of the things that I was dealing with on a much smaller scale, obviously. but just amazing to see the level of care focused on active and veteran service members. And to your point of not just, hey, we want to get you back to just like barely functioning as an adult, but we want you to be able to achieve your goals. Dave, I'm curious in your mind, right? At some point, there's a transition point where you're like, I'm going to continue to be a Green Beret, right? Was that from the beginning? Was that your rallying cry the minute you started trying to kind of regain function left and right? Or was that something where you got to a certain milestone and you're like, hey, actually, I think I might be able to continue to wear the uniform. Like, how did that shift in your mind? So the phrase that comes to mind for me is something that we used to say at selection is don't self-select. yeah it is you know never let yourself get to a mental state where you you decide that you can't cut it and you can't make it like late make somebody else tell you that yeah so when people ask me like well i'm going to go back to activity and continue serving like i would always tell them well no one's told me no yet so i'm gonna go until that happens at least maybe further um so whenever people would ask me like well what do you want to do you want to go you know back to serve uh i you know thought well you know that's that looks possible i i enjoy my job i i don't see you know a strong case for anything otherwise right now so um it it looks possible And it's going to be a challenge for sure. But, you know, it's not outside the realm of, you know, doable. Yeah, no, it's incredible. I mean, that's one of the most incredible parts to me of our warrior care program is prior to that, a lot of the services warrior transition units for wounded, ill and injured were really focused on like, okay, let's get this person to a reasonable level and then let's move them out of the service. Right. The the percentages of return to duty are far lower, unfortunately, in a lot of the services where your transition units and the warrior care program from the beginning was focused even from five to six years before it officially started. when General Brown started talking about it was, hey, how do we, if someone wants to continue to wear the uniform, let's find a role that they can contribute and continue to serve their nation. And everything was sort of focused on that. It wasn't forced, right? Like if you had said, hey, I've had enough army, I want to go do something else. That's fine too. But for most of us that have committed our lives to service and especially service within special operations, that is the ultimate motivation is to get back with the guys and gals, get back, you know, feeling like you're contributing. So I just think it's amazing. And I think it's an incredible quote to, hey, just don't self-select whether you're in the woods of North Carolina or whether you're in a, you know, hospital bed at the VA in Tampa. Hey, just keep putting one foot in front of the other as best you can and make somebody else tell you no. That's phenomenal. You know, as you're working through all of that. Lauren, how does it feel from your side as you're seeing those days and days of recovery and you're helping him get back to that spot? What was your perspective on like, hey, continuing to serve versus, hey, we're just trying to learn left hand and right hand working together. What was going through your mind as all that's going on? You know, I think every day, You know, when I when I reflected on on the day, my my ask was always give give Dave the recovery that he wants to have. You know, I know who he is as a person. He wants to climb big mountains and rock walls, much to much to my dismay. And he wants to run marathons, which I also don't understand. But, you know, I know he wants to he wants to live his life and he worked so hard to get through special forces selection. And, you know, he chose this position in North Carolina for our family because our family lives on the East Coast and like he he wants this. And so if through this recovery, that is that is what he continues to want, then that's what I want for him. It was hard You know there when you when you in a medical environment and you not a medical person It overwhelming And so you know no one explained to me that Dave had had a stroke until about six weeks in And so to me, I'm left in quiet moments just thinking he's he's never going to walk again. Right. He's lost the function on the left side of his body. He's never going to be able to do anything, any of these things again, because nobody explained to me how stroke recovery works either. because if they don't tell you he had a stroke, then they don't talk to you about stroke recovery either. And so, you know, it was, there was a lot of quiet moments for me just wondering like, what, what is his recovery going to look like? And so that, that is, that's where I landed of, I just, I want his recovery to be what he wants it to be so that he can keep being the person that he wants to be through this. And if that means, you know, staying in the military, then that's awesome because we love this life. Um, and that would be great. But if that's not meant to be, but he's alive and with us, then, then so be it. That's okay too. Yeah. That's, that's incredible. You know, it's, it's tough to have to keep it all together as the supporter and caregiver, because you know, that, uh, you know, that person who's dealing with it is looking at you constantly as well. And, and your, your, their perception of how you feel about it is a rallying cry for them as well. And so keeping that strength is incredible on both your parts, right throughout to be able to Dave, for you to keep on driving on and Lauren for you to keep on driving on and making him drive on is is pretty incredible. I'm curious through your journey, did you intersect with other families that were going through similar, you know, similar hardship, wounds, illness, injury? Did you did you run into some that had a similar experience where they had advocates? And did you run into some that didn't? And did you see any of those kind of challenges from others going through similar? That is one benefit of Fisher House living that we didn't really expect or think we would run into. But some of the personalities that Lauren ran into living at the Fisher House were, you know, pretty astounding and definitely different from our own. Whether it be like a 18 year old kid getting in a Humvee rollover and ending up at James Haley and his parents in the Fisher House with Lauren. And, you know, probably many more that you can describe better than I can. Yeah. I mean, you know, everybody was in everybody in the Fisher House was there for a different reason. But all of us were there because our lives had drastically changed in a moment. And so all of us are. And, you know, this is where the active duty versus veteran thing came into was, you know, they we would kind of get together in the evenings because everybody's in the kitchen and making themselves dinner. And, you know, occasionally throughout the week, the Fisher House serves dinner. So everybody's down. And so everybody's talking about the challenges that they're facing. Right. whether it's administrative, whether they're trying to get follow on care for their loved ones and they're struggling. And so everyone's trying to share resources. And I was the lone like active duty service member spouse. And so I'm like, I can't utilize any of those things. Right. Because we're because we're active duty. But, you know, we we were lucky because we did have a care advocate and we were the only ones that I talked to who had a care advocate. And we have we've talked to friends, you know, throughout this journey as we've returned home and began began to share our story to kind of highlight, you know, advocacy for military caregivers and military health care fixes and upgrades to some of the challenges that we faced. who told us like, hey, you know, my my service member got diagnosed with a brain tumor and it took me six months to get a referral to get a specialist because no one told me about the care coalition and that they could help me. And so I literally had to make it my full time job to try to get my service member who was still trying to serve and still trying to do their job, the care that they needed and the specialist that they needed for their diagnosis and for their treatment. So, you know, through through this journey and through telling our story, we've met, you know, other other families who it was a spouse caregiver who was trying to advocate for her child and the differences in her journey from ours and the things that she experienced. You know, we've we've recently heard a story of a veteran that we hadn't seen in about 10 years from, you know, from a previous life life and just happened to run into them again. And they're dealing with a major medical issue and no one told them like, hey, as a veteran, yes, you do also still have access to the care coalition. And so we were able to put them in contact with Miss Barbara because I was like, I know she'll fix it. You'll be in good hands. You'll be in good hands with Miss Barbara. So, you know, through that's been one of the positive experiences of this journey is that as we've shared our story, we've been able to hear other stories of, you know, yes, I had a care advocate. No, I didn't have a care advocate. Here's the challenges I face. Here's the resources I had. And we've just been able to continuously grow that outreach as others, you know, walk their own medical journeys. Yeah, it's incredible. One of the things that I didn't really realize when I was in group that I realized when I moved to the SOCOM headquarters and was helping run POTIF, you know, kind of the sister service for Warrior Care is really my advice to, you know, if you're active duty and you're listening to this and you have any sort of like an injury, anything, even if you don't think you need really any kind of specialized care, get enrolled with the Warrior Care program. So they at least have a file on you. You've got an advocate, all those things, because then when you have something like this that comes out of the blue, you already have someone to call. Right. Even if you're just sort of at the lowest level of involvement with the Warrior Care program, but they know who you are, they know they're tracking a little bit of your story, who your spouse is, all those things. it can speed that up. Another, another kind of critical role that Warrior Care fills is they can be the go, go between kind of the liaison between the service member and the nonprofit space. So if you're active duty, and you do need some assistance from nonprofit, they can do the legal thing so that you don't have to eat the cost on moving things or if there's a therapy device or things like that. So it is a, you know, you can always reach out to nonprofits directly, but if you're active duty, if you receive anything over than $25, you can potentially get in trouble for it, even though everyone on both sides is well-meaning, the Care Coalition and War Care program can do that legal paperwork, get the right signatures to make sure that you're fully covered, whether you, you know, whether you need whatever it is. I'm curious, did you guys have any involvement with nonprofits stepping in and helping. Was that part of your story as well? We absolutely did. So when we got down to James Haley, we found ourselves under the care of Rico, which was a retired Green Beret working for the Care Coalition down at James Haley. And he was our version of Barbara down there. And he did exactly that of interfacing with, in our case it was the Special Operations Warrior Foundation and one day he walked into my hospital room knowing that we had faced some Airbnb and lodging costs when we were up in Winston-Salem and other places so he came in with a check from a sizable re-embarred check from them for a program and a brand new iPad oddly yeah so uh they were they were very good to us and they absolutely did interface with the SOCOM care coalition that was our connection to those benevolent organizations that had a very drastic and appreciated impacts on our experience down there that's awesome well you know currently you're still in uniform you're still doing the job you're on the other side of it i'm sure there's still continuing challenges, but you've achieved that goal of being able to continue to serve. How's that experience been getting back into SWCC and working, continuing to work as a Green Beret? What's been your experience since? It's been, so right now I am the S3 for the support battalion for a special warfare training group. And one thing I was talking to Lauren about is, you know, on the heels of this kind of experience, it's not all that unplausible to think that, you know, okay, this guy's been kind of out of the fight for a while. We just need to find somewhere to administratively hide him for a certain period of time until, you know, such a point that he can be useful to the organization. And so it was nice that it's been challenging, but it was it's been gratifying that the people that I was assigned to and worked with identified a pretty substantial and challenging job for me to go right from that experience right into going and being an S3 for the support battalion for SWCC, which is a very complex and challenging organization to get a handle of exactly what they all do. There's a lot of different things going on at the same time there. So I've been enjoying going right into a challenge for sure and something that I feel is very much worthy of my time. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, S3 operations role is something that would have been on the career path anyway, right? Like that's not a like, hey, we're just going to, to your point, we're going to stick him over here. Like S3 Ops is a very legit role that is not a, you know, hey, you're checking in for a couple hours and rolling out. That's a very busy job. And to your point at Special Warfare Training Group, there's so many different things going on in so many different places. I'm sure it's challenging. I've even heard that you're continuing to challenge yourself physically with some goals kind of as you as you continue to wear the uniform. Like what's next? What are you what are you pushing towards right now? so next is uh probably passing an aft as you know i i have regained a lot of the daily functions and things that we're talking about and kind of the next big challenge for me is regaining an acceptable level of athletic performance which is you know a component of you know still doing this job and that's something that i continue to work towards and knowing that I'll have to, you know, get to the point where I can, you know, pass and do well enough on AFT at some point in time. So that's kind of the next challenge in line. And there are others, too, as, you know, from our time in Colorado, I used to joke that everyone who moves to Colorado takes up for some duration of time, some Rocky Mountain adventure sport, whether it's skiing or mountain biking or otherwise. So after trying out a few of them myself and breaking a bone or two, I decided that I prefer my danger at slow speeds. So I stuck with rock climbing as a preferred hobby. So, you know, when we learned of my diagnosis and what the recovery would likely look like, I called a rock climbing buddy of mine in Colorado and said, you know, Brett, like, if I survive this, we need to go do something, you know, big and impressive. And he said, well, biggest thing in North America is the nose, which is a route up El Capitan. So that is kind of the the the passing AFT is the next goal. But, you know, climbing the nose is, you know, probably a little further in the future. But it's something that I don't think Brett and I are going to abandon. I think we need to pursue learning how to climb big walls and do multi day climbs. Yeah, spoken like a true special operator. It's never enough just to go from not walking to walking. Right, Lauren? That's you got to try to climb. It's a double edged sword, the ambition that we have to push ourselves. It keeps us going. But also, I'm sure from your side, you're like, oh, wow, that's that would be dangerous without anything. But it's an incredible story to go from not being able to walk, learning how to hold your head up, to now running, now pulling, now doing all these things and rock climbing. I mean, my first ODA was a mountain team, and I had enough trouble trying to get my right hand and left foot to do the right things when I wasn't recovering from this type of thing. So that's incredible. It's it's amazing that you've been able to take that experience in the Haley VA of being able to get on that rock wall and say, hey, this is something that I can do, that I can continue to progress at. That's challenging enough to where I can continue to push myself, but is not so daunting that I just know it's it's not possible. Right. That's that's incredible. Lauren, what are your thoughts as you see him now continue to serve and you are now an advocate for others to to, you know, get engaged in the care coalition and all of these things? it's it's amazing um you know we have we have moments periodically where we'll be you know driving down the road and dave will be like do you know how nice it is to like not have to wait in the car for you to get the wheelchair and to transfer me to the wheelchair like i can literally just get out of the car on my own and walk you know and like i hope i hope as we you know progress further from this journey that's not a perspective that we forget um you know how it this this whole experience turned our lives completely upside down. And, and, you know, I've said, I don't think we'll ever look back on it and say, we're grateful this happened to us because no zero out of 10 would recommend my friends But you know through through this journey you know we we been able to take our story and share it in a way that that does help with with advocacy efforts in highlighting you know here were some of the challenges that we faced So, yeah, that that policy that you made that sounds good on paper, like to to a young military spouse who has no idea, like can't you know, can't even tell you what organization her service member serves in. Like that's entirely overwhelming. You know, asking for help is hard as it is. And when the army or whatever military branch that you're in just shows up and forced to help you and you're not familiar with it, it's intimidating and it's scary. and they're talking at you in acronyms and they're they're asking phrases and saying things and you're like I don't I don't understand I don't understand what you're saying and that's scary and intimidating and so being able to bring voice to that as you know somebody who was familiar to it and be able to speak to it in a way that's like hey from the spouse perspective guys this is hard this is hard And so just being able to, you know, to share our story in a way that becomes an advocacy effort and something that we can keep championing as we as we continue. You know, we've been home now. Dave came home in November and it's something, you know, we've we've continued to face challenges. I, you know, I literally just talked to Miss Barbara on Monday, you know, about, you know, some administrative things that we're that we're struggling with. And so, you know, she's still just a steadfast, constant presence, even now that we've transitioned to, you know, our new normal's normal. Like, this is our lives now. So, yeah, it's been a journey. But, you know, we're grateful for the takeaways that we got from it and what we've been able to do with it. Yeah, absolutely. It's an incredible story and incredible for you guys to continue to go out and share it so that others understand some of these intricacies, both the good and the bad, right? Some of the good that came from the Warrior Care program, but also some of the bad that if you weren't as familiar as you are and they wouldn't have wrapped their arms around you, could have been much worse and is much worse for others who don't have it. But, you know, I know there was a special moment where you guys were able to meet some of the other folks at the Warrior Care Program and kind of see this infrastructure behind. Talk me through that a little bit. It was a cool experience. So, you know, through all of this, Miss Barbara was was there, but she was the voice on the other on the other end of the line for me. And so when we got home, we got home in November and in January, we were able to go over to the Care Coalition building on Fort Bragg and meet Miss Barbara in person. And I think what was so cool about that experience and so powerful was as we were walking through the building, she would introduce us to other care advocates and she would say, these are the cars. And they all knew who we were. And so even though Miss Barbara was the face and the voice and she was, you know, the presence for us and the cheerleader and the advocate, everyone played a part in helping us get through what we went through. And they all supported her. They supported us. So they were all very familiar with our journey. And so, you know, as we're walking around the office, she'd be like, oh, these are the cars. And, you know, one of the advocates was like, y'all been through a lot, you know, and that was that was so powerful. Because then we then we got to see, like, not only is our care advocate amazing, but this whole team truly just embodies what it means to take care of people, not just external for the people that they're supporting, but internally as a cohesive team. They're, you know, helping each other out to navigate like, hey, I learned this lesson, like, help me, you know, help me out with this. teach me how you did this. So that was, that was such a really cool, really cool thing to experience walking into that building. Yeah, I love to hear it because one of the things that we've constantly talked about as the evolution of the Warrior Care program continued to grow and we continue to be able to put more advocates in more places and build more infrastructure is always trying to focus on each and every person is, you know, it's a person, it's a family, it's not a number. And I I think a lot of times in the bigger, broader healthcare arena, and even in some of the services arena, people can become a number because you just have so many cases and spread so many different places. But that care and ability to know the family, the story, what's really needed and be intricately involved throughout the, you know, intimately involved throughout the process and not just, oh, yeah, hey, we helped them once, you know, 18 months ago or whatever. Like to continue to walk alongside is very, very amazing to hear for sure. The conversation that comes to mind is my brother came down to James Haley and visited for a while, and he spent a couple years as enlisted infantryman at the Old Guard and also at 101st. And his comment is after explaining some of our interactions and some of the advocacy work that was being done on our behalf, is he commented, he's like, you do it's obvious to me Dave that you don't exist within the army that I knew because if what happened to you happened to someone that I knew in the army that I know like you'd be out of the army and you know he so he he brought that up saying it was very apparent that some people in some influential places like care about you and it's obvious in the way that you're being treated that the organizations that you interact with, like, treat you differently from the way that he had experienced in the Army and different organizations. So I think that says, you know, a lot about how we approach the value of humans in our organization. Yeah, and it was, you know, the way the special operations community rallied around us, alumni or, you know, active duty, You know, we with Dave being at NDU, we needed letters from his commander for things. Well, NDU command is at Fort Jackson. Right. And so it was like, who who is Dave's commander? And so shout out to the Fort Bragg commander that gave me a blanket letter and signed his name to it and was like, use my name in vain. I don't care if anyone asks you, send them here. Like, I don't care what you need. It was just a blanket. Whatever she asked you for, you give it to her. There was a weird administrative battle when I came to the NDU program of where do NDU students sit administratively? And the solution was that, you know, all our orders said that we belong to HHC SWCC, but HHC SWCC didn't want to take on, you know, that many students at one time necessarily. So student company at Fort Jackson raised their hand and said they want to take us on. I think that's two books I was originally on. uh but when i came to to fort bragg i i had a marketplace matchup for uh assignment at camp mccall after the ndu program where i was going to go be the next stt commander out there so you know in us trying to figure out administratively like how do we get a command letter and who wants to actually own this uh you know broken healing green beret like first battalion uh special for special water training group raised their hands like he was heading to us we'll own him we'll take him so they express you know you know ownership of me and were very gracious in you know giving me the time and space that i needed to be able to recover to the point that i could go join another part of the swick organization when i got back yeah it's phenomenal i mean i i think we i think as you get older and more experienced in the community you appreciate that safety net a little bit more, but as a, as a young guy on a team, you're like, Oh yeah, if I get shot, they'll take care of me or whatever. But really, you know, the, the wrapping around safety net of, it doesn't matter if it's something with your family, it doesn't matter if it's something with you, doesn't matter if it's, you know, from a combat wound or from just a, a crazy medical diagnosis or an accident, like, are, we are going to take care of our people, period. Like we're going to figure out a way to get to yes and take care of them. And we continue to rally around that, you know, from the lowest levels all the way to the top and pushing that up to Congress and everything else for all these funding things. It is not a like, hey, we just might need this, like this is happening all day, every day across the enterprise. And, you know, it's not a, it's not a bumper sticker, right? Soft truth number one is not a bumper sticker. It's a every single day figuring out how to take care of people. But I hope that those that are listening, I hope it resonates with them as well, whether especially if you're a family member to understand that, hey, if my family member is part of the special operations community, there are resources available that all they want to do is help, right? You have advocates in the Warrior Care program. You've got folks at Preservation of the Force and Family. You've got a ton of us in the nonprofit space that want to help and can get involved, but also up and down the chain of command within the active duty footprint, they'll figure out a way to get you somewhere to where you can get that letter or you can get a billet. You can do something so that you get taken care of. As we wrap up, I want to give you each kind of a final thought, final word as you think about this story. And it's just an amazing, amazing testament to both of your resolve and to you both as people and as a couple to have this diagnosis that is a, hey, we better walk to the OR right now to now sitting back at Fort Bragg as an S3 and as a family. It's just incredible. And so I want to turn it over to you all for any parting words. The story that comes to mind for me is, you know, our conversation is kind of jumping around to how different organizations in the Army, you know, treat and value humans. And what comes to mind is I recall when I commissioned as an infantry officer and I was getting ready to head out to Hawaii for my first assignment, I was very confident that all the biggest challenges I was going to face in my lieutenancy all had to do with leading troops in combat. And I was convinced that all my biggest challenges were going to be tactical in nature. And I was prepared for that challenge. And what I found, you know, with my time in Hawaii was very different, that all the biggest and most compelling challenges that I faced during that time were all social, psychological. It was a massive challenge leading this group of angry teenagers very far away from home and asked to do hard things on a regular basis and keep them focused and motivated and emotionally stable. And those challenges, you know, were very human over a reminder that, you know, as much as the Army can appear like a big unfeeling system, it's full of humans which need regard and care and need all, you know, kinds of, you know, emotional and personal support in order to function and being the one to provide that care. in that direction is a really compelling thing to be able to do. And, you know, just to just to, you know, piggyback off of that, I think my charge to this community would be, you know, to those who are in a position of authority, who are decision makers, or who find themselves in a position as a leadership team and supporting a family member who's walking a journey, whether it's like ours or a different medical, you know, medical situation, if it's the service member, if it's their spouse, if it's their children, listen to their stories. Listen to the challenges that they are facing and be an advocate for changing it. Right. Like it's amazing that the Care Coalition exists to help us navigate it. But I want to see us get to a point to where it's like, hey, let's fix that. Right. Let's stop making it a challenge and let's just fix it. So then it's not an issue anymore that the care coalition has to get involved and help this family member. Like, let's just fix it. Let's streamline it. Let's overcome these administrative challenges. So as as you're seeing family members and service members struggle, struggle with these things, just just take on that extra step of, hey, let's make it a little better so that the people who walk this after them don't have to deal with the same challenges that they faced. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you both for sharing your story, for joining us on Softcast today. I want to echo Ms. Barbara in that these are the cars, and we're so blessed and lucky to have them in the special operations community. I'm so thankful that you guys are continuing to serve and that you're willing to continue to tell your story. And I'm incredibly thankful for you guys for joining us on Softcast. Thanks for the time today. Thanks for your continued service, your continued advocacy. On behalf of all of us from General Fenton on down at USSOCOM, thanks for joining us today on Softcast. And for all of you out there listening, thanks for joining us for another episode of Softcast. All right, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Softcast. No matter where you find our show, do us a favor. Go give us a like, a follow, and share it with somebody in your network who might enjoy this episode. Also, please go give us a five-star review. It really does help other people find the show. If there's someone else that you'd like to hear from or a topic you'd like to hear about, please shoot us an email, softcast at SOCOM.mil. And while you're at it, go check us out on social media at USSOCOM, whether it's Facebook, Instagram, X, LinkedIn, wherever. Follow along with what's going on with U.S. Special Operations Command and with the show. And on behalf of all of us from General Fenton on down at U.S. Special Operations Command, And thanks for listening to another episode of Softcast.