Ovi vs Crosby. The Last Dance?

There were some people who agreed with me. There were a lot of people who disagreed with me. There were some people that thought I was really obnoxious. I accept all of your commentary. I have no problem with anybody who thought I was wrong or obnoxious, but I did say going into that segment, he gets me a lot. This one I'm going for him. Yeah, you did. Welcome to 32 Thoughts the Podcast presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers and the 100% electric BZ. Available now during Red Tag Days. Producer Dom is here. My name is Kyle and I'm joined by my co-host, the 1992 Western University debate team captain, Elliot Friedman. Elliot? We will get to that in a second. First of all, how are you doing? You missed your game on Saturday. Oh, silly, silly. Carolyn Cameron is the queen of the great trade. We traded for her on Leaf Regionals. That's right. We dumped David Amber off it and the regionals improved by miles. We traded her for you on Saturday night and it was just a smoother broadcast. In all seriousness, how are you feeling? Yeah, good, better. I'm glad my voice is a little more like myself getting there, I think. You let me know if it starts to go really sideways. Yeah, it was just kind of a weird feeling. Like it didn't feel right not working, but it was the right decision. Anyway, nobody needed to be around me that day. It was a bit of a mess. So we'll rest up and be good to go when it starts to really get serious. Come play off time on the weekend. Now, I just want everyone to know, well, of course, I'm always concerned about your well-being. I did offer Kyle to miss this pod and I would just run through it myself. I don't think anybody needs to be a martyr at this time of the year. We have two big months coming up. And once again, Kyle, I offer you one final opportunity to beg out and nobody will think any less of you. We've got a lot of work coming up and if you want to protect your voice, I understand it. Actually, it's a good idea. Good luck. All right, thanks. See you Thursday. Okay, so let's start off. Okay. First of all, it's we're recording at 1.30 in the morning, Monday morning, because Dom had softball. And as the benevolent dictator of this podcast, Dom loves his softball. I want him to be able to play. But Dom, did you guys win? Game's ongoing. No, I'll tell you at the end of the pod if we won or lost. You left during the game? Of course, I have to be here for the pond. You don't have to do that. I would have waited. We would have waited. You guys had a double header, right? Yeah. Did you win the first game? Lost by one. Oh my. Okay. Disgrace. If you're going to make us wait, you have to win. Those are the rules, right? That turned very quickly. It was good work. That turned very quickly. Yeah. We first came on. Dom still had his seat. It literally came right from the diamond. He still had his jersey on and it's a good uniform. Oh yeah? What is it? Oh, nice. It's a good colorway. Got the nice base layer going. There is the part. Do or do not. There is no try as Yoda once said. He looked apart, even though there are losers on Sunday. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. All right, Kyle. By the way, John Butcher-Groves got his extension to ESPN. Very happy for you, John, but he's screaming at the pod right now, saying, stop screwing around, get to business. Kyle, where do you want to start? Well, I introduced you as the debate team captain for a reason because it was compelling television late on Saturday night. It was at second intermission of the Sharks Canucks games. I didn't think anything could take away or even attempt to one up the farewell. Well, not officially farewell, but the lead up to Scott Oaks final after hours. Between you and Kevin and Chris Bronger and Ron, of course, there. A great conversation and debate broke out over Norris Trophy candidates this year. There is an embarrassment of riches. And it got, I think, in all the right ways, got heated there on the set. I just think that this, that the fact that we're, I'm not taking a shot at you, Brian Speer, but the fact that we're showing this board is a disservice to this award. This award is best defensemen. Why is there so much stock put into the offensive statistics of the best defensemen? Unless it's like the year Carlson had a hundred points, which was outrageous. I still don't think you should have won that year. But unless it's something outrageous, that's just a small part of it. What about penalty kill time? So who's not on that board? Kale McCarr is the best defenseman in the world. Oh, hold on. I'll tell you, I'll give you the answer. I'll just say that. You're going to be like, he got her. No, he played 73. He played 73 games this year. That's enough to determine the best defense. He's the number one defenseman on Colorado, offensively defensively. He's the number one defenseman on Team Canada, offensively and defensively. He's going on the ice with a minute left, up or down. He's the only defenseman on your list that plays penalty kill, two minutes on average ice time. He is the overall best defenseman. I can't believe we just wasted a minute of airtime. What do you mean? Why is he not the winner? Justifying Kale McCarr, of course Kale McCarr is one of the best defensemen. So why did you pick Rasmus Dallin? Because I think this year Rasmus Dallin has been the best defenseman in the league. But it was compelling television, I have to say. So take us into those few minutes on the death Saturday night. I saw a lot of the reaction today and I really enjoyed reading it. Whether you agreed with me, whether you disagreed with me and there were plenty of people who disagreed with me. I had a few people text me, Kyle saying, could you have been any more obnoxious? Like that's what I had. I had a few people say that to me and it's all good. Like I think it's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be debate. I really do believe there is nothing more tribal and hockey than awards voting. There's something about it. Fans are enormously protective of their candidates. I think it's a great thing. Fans should support the players that they love and the teams that they love. But there's something about it that and I know people. And I think it's a great thing that the votes are public. Right, wrong. You know, we ask for transparency for people. We should be transparent. But I've spoken to a number of other voters who have either said they don't want to vote anymore or they've stopped voting because of the backlash to their ballots. And I think that just shows the tribal nature of the voting. But I also say to people, you know, you shouldn't be afraid to make an argument and either stand behind it or listen to people who disagree with it. I'm fine with all of this. Agree, disagree. I think it's great debate and, you know, people are going to disagree with me all the time and I'm perfectly fine with that. You know, I will say this. You know, Kevin and I like to go at each other. Kevin was pretty passionate about what he was going to say in the lead up before the intermission. And, you know, you've seen the two of us go at it a lot. He gets me more than I get him. I just decided I was going to make his life miserable in this segment. I had made a decision that I was going to do this. You know, I think the one thing is like I do agree with him. I want a lot of what he said, actually. I think it is a two-way award. I think that board coming up there kind of threw the discussion a little bit because I think, you know, if you've heard me on this podcast before, if you've heard me talk about before, I think one player who criminally gets undervoted in these things is a guy who's never going to be on that top scoring list. And that is Miro Hayeskin. You know, I think Hayeskin should have won a Norris trophy by now. I voted him first before. And I think he's a person who was criminally underrated in terms of Norris trophy voting. Charlie McAvoy is not one of the scoring leaders. And I think Kevin's totally right. He should be among the top of those players. But, and you know what? Like he was going to bad for Kel McCarre. Kel McCarre to me is like Connor McDavid for the heart trophy. He could win it every year, every year. Connor McDavid is the best player in the NHL. Kel McCarre is the best defenseman in the NHL. They could win it every year. And Kel McCarre might win it this year. I don't know what the voters are going to say. And Connor McDavid might win the heart trophy this year. I don't know what the voters are going to say. And I think those are incredibly defensible positions. The one thing is like there are so many good defensemen this year. The one thing I wish I would have pointed out on air. I didn't do enough looking into it. Like some of the people on that list, they said aren't two way guys. They've killed as many penalties this year as McCarre has. Like Evan Bouchard has actually killed more time than McCarre has. And if you look at their average time shorthanded, I think they're within about five or 10 seconds of each other. Eric Carlson, who I'm debating putting on my ballot, who I think has had a masterful season. I think you can argue his season this year has been better than his Norse trophy winning season from a couple of years ago. He, in terms of shorthanded time on ice, is right with McCarre. And also is within five or 10 seconds on a per game basis. So I think that's one place where I disagree with what Kevin said, not in terms of his position, but in who deserves to be voted for and doesn't. And I will say this also too, if you look at the ballot, okay, the ballot for heart trophy says, and I'm looking at my ballot right now, the heart trophies to the player or judge to be the most valuable to his team, the Norse trophy to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season, the greatest all around ability in their position, in the position. Maybe people out there think I'm wrong and that's totally fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I think if you're going to give a player like Matthew Schaefer a heart vote, I don't understand how he can't be somewhere on your Norse trophy ballot. I just don't understand how a player can be one of the most valuable to his team in the NHL in the season and not be one of the five best defensemen in the league. And I just, that's one place where Kevin and I disagree. But there were some people who agreed with me. There were a lot of people who disagreed with me. There were some people that thought I was really obnoxious. I accept all of your commentary. I have no problem with anybody who thought I was wrong or obnoxious. But I did say going into that segment, he gets me a lot. This one, I'm going for him. Yeah, that you did. I did have some sympathy for Kevin though. I certainly, I know the feeling of being constantly interrupted and talked over, rudely. No, I'm kidding, of course. That was, uh, No, you're not, but that's okay. No, no, it was, it was really, really fascinating to watch. And then afterwards, like, okay, we throw the commercial break and everybody cool. Was there any lingering emotion or do we, we finish a few things in the green room after? No, we said, good segment. Good segment. No, no, no, like people who've watched that dynamic with Kevin and I, like we really go at each other a lot. It takes a lot to offend him. It takes a lot to offend me. And, um, you know, I like, one of the things I like about on the most is that oftentimes I'm on the receiving end of that. And I know when I'm going into a conversation with him, I better be prepared because he comes at you with good questions. He makes really good points. He will slice and dice your argument extremely well. So if you're not prepared, he's going to cut you in half. And I think working with Kevin and Ron's got a lot of that too. Like he will challenge you and Ron often when he challenges me, it's, it comes from a place I'm almost never expecting. Like he's got the way he thinks, and this is not a negative. This is a compliment is very different from the way I'm wired. So when he throws something at me, it's usually taking me two or three seconds to figure out where to come back here. And those kinds of people, they make you a better broadcaster, right? You got to think on your feet. So no, no issues. And, uh, uh, it was, yeah, it was, it was, it was a good conversation. And, um, you know, the, the thing I do agree with him is that a North trophy winner should be a two-way player. And for sure one thing else, the one thing I'll say about Schaefer is, and I watched, I watched him a lot this year. Early in the year, they sheltered him. But in the last half of the year, they did not. And he was out there, I think if there was one thing that probably bothered him a bit was when I, because he stopped talking was when I said, watch the game nerd. Cause, cause usually he says that kind of thing to me. He was a little surprised. Yeah. But, but, uh, but, uh, you know, Schaefer in the second half of the season, they have not sheltered him. And I'll, and I'll say this too, I am in the middle of doing a really deep dive into Evan Bouchard. I've taken some time to really go through some of his stuff. Um, not only the numbers, uh, but also try to rewatch, um, some of his games, shifts, uh, what went wrong in situations, what went right in situations. Like I have had people who have implored me to take a deeper look into Evan Bouchard. And I am doing that now. Um, look, they, they played on Saturday and the one goal was taken off his stick and Panera went down the ice and scored. And, you know, again, you know, there's people saying, oh, Bouchard, but I have been determined to do a much deeper look into him and, and go at it with an open mind. And I am doing that right now. I'm in, I'm in the middle of it right now. Yeah. Got a lot of work to do this week with, uh, ballots due in on Friday. Yep. Friday at, at 5pm. Yeah. It's, uh, it's fascinating. I just, you know, you try to find, and you mentioned absolutely, uh, the two way appeal and trying to find guys that just control the game. How often is the puck on their stick? Are they dictating getting play out of their zone? Are they often in the position to kill plays when they don't have the puck on their stick and they're defending? How are they impacting things on the offensive side of the other? Like there's anyway, yeah, it's, it's a multi-layered kind of checklist to try to go through to figure out, okay, who not only is number one, but two through five as well. Yeah. So Kyle, like, for example, here's the short handed minutes heading into Sunday's games. Hayes-Kanin 239, McEvoy 194, Bouchard 144.5, McCarr 144.20, Eric Carlson 140.17, Sider 128.39, Moranski 91.50, Schaefer 88.44, Dulleyn 60 minutes. So this is something that, you know, should be mentioned. Like a lot, a number of those guys who were top scores are also penalty killers. And the other thing, and I've talked about this before, is who makes the playoffs and who doesn't. You know, last year, Zach Moranski was, I think he was second or third on my ballot. I know Hallowbuck was first. I can't remember who was two, three, but I've looked at Moranski and I've looked at Sider. You know, to me, these are two of the best defensemen in the league this year. And I'm just trying to figure out how high they go. Because, you know, their teams won't make, well, Siders out Moranski still has an outside shot. Like it's not impossible. It's not done yet, even though they really had a tough loss on Sunday night. It's a factor. Like these are really tough calls. But like I said, I'm really taking a deep look into Bouchard because I just think that it's a prudent thing to do. Yes, good stuff. All right. By the way, do you have an opinion on the Norse? Like what do you, you don't have to say your vote, but what are you thinking? Well, I like you and looking at Bouchard through a different light than maybe I have in the past. It's beyond time for it. I was a big believer in Moranski last year. I may have had him one. I think, again, seeing him when I talk about controlling the game, he's a big believer in Moranski. He is among the very best at it. And certainly you've got your regulars like Akail Makar. The Marasmas Dali name is a fascinating one. I'm still, I'm just, I'm not there yet where I've got, here, this is who I have one and to kind of go through my list from that point. And the other, like, I will say I did vote for Carlson the year he won it with San Jose. So it'd be hypocritical of me to now go, yeah, you've got to be in the playoffs in order to get a vote for, for this award in particular. I mean, and the tough thing too, I mean, Columbus right now, even with that last Sunday, you know, 92 points is good enough for first in the Pacific as we wake up Monday morning. So how do you factor all of that into the equation? It's not an easy one. It's, there's always one every year, even, I have to say, even hard this year, even though my ballot's going to go one, two, Kutcherov, Celerbrini, the rest of it, there's a lot of good candidates, a lot of good candidates. Yeah. And I mean, it's a treat for all of us that are watching the league, how many good players there are to be considered for, for these major awards, because it is history. You try to do it justice each time you submit a ballot. Okay. Speaking of history, Sunday afternoon, Elliott, for the 100th time, it was Crosby versus Ovechkin, the rivalry that saved the NHL coming out of the 0405 lockout. The respect and appreciation for one another is certainly built as time has gone on. It was a great call by Chris Runi to have Crosby and Ove take the opening face off. No surprise, Crosby was the one that snapped it back there. Crowd was chanting one more year at the end of the game. Capitol is still alive in the playoff hunt, by the way. Yes. Malkin said after the game, he thinks he's coming back. Ovechkin is for another year, that he's still hungry. So we saw the great scenes after the fact of Crosby and Ovechkin exchanging sticks and signing this and that for one another. All of it to say, we still don't know where that ultimately ends up, but a terrific scene in Washington on Sunday. Seward Ovechkin said post game. Ove, what did you make of the one more year chance from the fans? I will think about it. Yes. Said it a few times. By the way, I'm convinced Malkin, whenever he's asked a question like this, he thinks to himself, what is the answer I can give that will cause the most carnage? I really believe that's his thought process because everybody's looking at these pictures before the game and the videos before the game of them taking pictures together and then the post game, they're exchanging the sticks and the face off with each other and people are tweeting and texting and saying, this has got to be it really. This has got to be it. And Malkin's like, no, I think he's coming back. What's the most craziness I can insert into this entire conversation and situation? I really believe that's the way he thinks and I love him for it. First of all, I wanted to shout out back to back games with a lot of emotion. I thought the Penguins as an organization and their game presentation people and the Capitals as an organization and their game presentation people hit the right notes. It was enough of a potential goodbye without being an actual goodbye. They had to treat the moment properly. They had to recognize the possibility of what was going on, but they could not say goodbye. You mentioned Chris Rooney. There is something very funny, Kyle, about the fact that Chris Rooney's best call this year was not a penalty. It was not a gold tender interference review. His best call this year was to kick Strom out of the face off circle so Ovechkin could come in there. Really says something that that is Chris Rooney's best call of the year. Great job, Chris. Very well done. I also wanted to shout out Ryan Mill, who's the public address announcer in Pittsburgh, who when they played the video for Ovechkin and he got a nice ovation there, he said, thank you very much for 21 years of the greatest rivalry. Penguins, Capitals, Crosby, Ovechkin, and then he paused and said, you know, something along the lines of, I don't remember the exact quote, but and we'll be ready next year if you want to make it 22. Like, I just thought that was so perfectly done. Ryan, I don't know if you write your own scripts or it gets done and you something gets put together and you can fiddle with it as you see fit, but I thought you hit the right tone there beautifully with the pause. Great job. Great job. And then the game. I mean, you know, I also thought it was the right thing to do. I'm sure the Penguins fans weren't as crazy about it and maybe the ticket buying public, I understand. But if you were going to play Crosby and Malkin, I thought it was the right tribute to do it in Washington. I think that there was, you know, it's all the rule is take care of your home fans first. And I think that's true in 99% of the cases. The way this was set up, I think this was the 1% exception that you play them there and you do it there. And you know, my theory on this, Kyle, after watching it all weekend is this. And again, I stress this is only my theory and my opinion. And maybe I'll be wrong. But I see OVatchkin is a guy who wants to play, but recognizes that he has a standard for himself. And he's worried that if he tries to play 82 games next year, he will drop below that standard that he has for himself. That's my word on it. 84 even better. Good point. Thank you for reminding me. This is why he's the best color man in the business, folks. I always remember one of my favorite baseball players, Mike Schmidt, Hall of Famer, third baseman, greatest Philadelphia Philly ever. He retired on May 29th, 1989. He played basically seven weeks of the baseball season that year and he quit out of nowhere. And he said, I'm not myself anymore. I am not the level I expect myself to be. And he retired. And I always remembered that. I think there are guys like that. I think there are guys who say, nope, I expect this for myself and I won't be below that. And obviously OVatchkin is not the guy he was when he was 20 or 25 or 30, but he's still a force. And I just, I watch him and I just wonder is the internal battle. I love being around. I love being around my teammates. They're making this run. He loves having his kids around the rink. His kids love being around the rink, but I'm not myself anymore. And while I can accept some drop off, I can't accept X drop off. And in his mind, he thinks he's about there. That's my opinion on the matter. That's a pretty good one. And you know, a guy like Crosby's probably wired somewhere similarly. It's just, it's amazing when you think about, as you said, that scene in Pittsburgh on the Saturday. Like you imagine telling the fans, the season ticket holders there at PPG Paints Arena 15 years ago going, one day you are going to be on your feet applauding Alex OVatchkin. Amazing. No chance. No chance. It's really cool just how the evolution of this rivalry has gone. There's been great playoff battles. Both teams have got to the summit and won a Stanley Cup. Of course, Pittsburgh's done it three times under Crosby. But even going back to like that, 2005 World Juniors where Crosby was Canada, OVatchkin with Russia, they're playing for the gold in the final and already there is the conversation at that time of, okay, who do you think is going to have the better NHL career? And like, I suppose you can do that, but it's like, do you even need to? Like it's just two unbelievable players that had all this expectation to carry the league in a sense for a great period of time. And all they did was deliver year after year after year. You've got one of the consummate professionals and great players of all time in Crosby who's won everything. You've got the all time greatest goal scorer that has a Stanley Cup on his resume in OVatchkin. It was like, it just felt like it's impossible in the dreams and the hopes that were laid out for those two at the beginning to possibly could they get there and they smash right through the ceiling. So whether the 100th meeting was the final one or if there's still a couple more yet, how lucky we all are to have followed this all for over 20 years. It's incredible. It's similar to how McGuire and Sosa and the homerun chase saved baseball after the 94 strike, right? We have the full year lockout, these two arrive and they re-energize the NHL after that lockout. They needed something and those two guys arrived at that time and did it. And I think it's great now too that, you know, they didn't really get along for a long time. They didn't really like to talk about each other for a long time. And now it's clear the enormous respect they have for each other. And the thing I really think that did that, Kyle, was that Washington won that cup in 2018. For all of OVatchkin's enormous success individually, I don't think they're seen as equals and he probably doesn't feel as comfortable towards Crosby if Washington doesn't have a championship of its own. And, you know, they've both done incredible things. They both did incredible things for the league. In some way, and I don't think it's going to happen, it would almost be poetic if they went into the hockey hall of fame at the same time. But it doesn't look like it's going to happen that way. By the way, that video that the Penguins put out there of them exchanging some things and signing sticks for one another, right at the end, I mean, we were talking about this before we started recording. I can't tell exactly what OVatchkin says to Crosby, but it's something about history. And Sid really gives him a look back. It was, anyway, well done by the Penns social team in documenting that after the game. Usually these things get subtitles put on them. So put the subtitles on there so we can make it. Maybe they couldn't even figure it out. Probably not. Tricky. Anyway, so that was a nice scene Sunday. The playoff picture, Elliott is starting to take shape a little more. I think now as we wake up Monday, there are three spots up for grabs two in the West, one in the East. We'll go through a couple of the scenarios here first. By the way, Friday's pod, it's going to be a big one. We'll go through more in detail. The 16 teams that missed the playoffs and kind of what the future and offseason outlook is for them. But I did want to mention here briefly as we make our way through this all. So January 25th, for each Detroit leading their division, they were 10 points clear of the playoff cut line at the time. And now they hold the unfortunate title of the longest active playoff drought in the league at 10 years. And the cruel irony that they lose at home on Saturday to seal their fate that was fan appreciation day at Little Caesars Arena. They were boot off the ice at the final buzzer. Where do you want to start here with Detroit with Steve Iserman and the wings failing to reach the playoffs yet again? So Kyle, on Saturday night, as you know, I'm usually glued to my work. But on the monitors, I'll only have our games up there, right? I don't usually watch us us games on Saturday night because my focus is on what we're dealing with on hockey night in Canada. But I made an exception on Saturday night. And I watched Devils Red Wings. And I turned to it in the third period, right as Emmett Finney scored to make it three to two Detroit. And I was sitting there and I was like, okay, they're in good shape. I'm thinking at worst, they're at least getting a point out of this, right? And then I saw a glass tie it, Brad scored the go ahead goal. And I wasn't watching it with sound Kyle. But you but you could feel like even within on mute, you could feel the shock, right? I was sitting there and I was in shock. I was like, is this really happening? And then Mercer scores the the empty net or two to seal the game. And I'll say this, the Detroit broadcast team at the end of that game, their production was spectacular elite. They they're they're camera people caught close ups of the Detroit players. And you could see the shock on their faces. They could not believe what had just happened to them, both not only in that game, but since you mentioned they were in first place in the Atlantic division. And they did such a great job of capturing the faces and cutting between the players. And, you know, the one thing I would salute them for is they still did. Someone mentioned to me they still pointed towards the radio announcer Paul Woods, who was retiring after the game, they still did that. And I would have completely understood if they would have forgotten to do it, just in the crushing disappointment of the moment. But the TV production staff absolutely hit that one out of the park in the moment. And I'm still, you know, as you said, we're going to talk more about these teams in the next in the next pod as we get some time to process it. But if I was shocked, I could only imagine what hardcore Red Wings fans are thinking. And, you know, to me, the first the first question is Iserman. And, you know, you know, I've joked, I we joke about Iserman on this pod about him and I how we've had our run ins and things like that. But I have an enormous amount of respect for everything he's accomplished in his life. And, and I have even more respect for the fact that he doesn't need to do this. And he grinds, Iserman grinds, and he's won everything that a player could win. He's won gold medals as a, as an Olympic GM. He's he built the lightning, he was gone before they started winning cups, but he built them. You know, he doesn't need this, but he does it because he's competitive as heck, and he tries to do it the right way. And I'm just trying to put myself in his head. And, you know, a part of him has got to be saying, like, this is so disappointing. Why do I keep coming back and doing this? And to me, I'm wondering if that's almost as big a decision as do the Red Wings want to make a change in that spot. And I don't know, I just, I can't see him, he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would walk away from this. You know, particularly since it's it's really shocking, but that unprotected number one pick, there's still a chance Detroit could drop a bit here. You know, that pick if Detroit was to win the lottery could be a pretty high pick. And it's just, I don't think anyone would have thought Detroit would be in that particular position. But you know how it is, it's all of a sudden you find yourself in that position. And people are like, okay, how did this happen? I think to me, the biggest question with him is not so much is he in trouble, but how does he feel about all this? And I can't imagine he'd want to walk away. You know, we've discussed on this pod, does he kind of bump himself up and promote someone? I don't know, I just, I've been thinking about this a lot the past 24 hours. Because I think that's one of the big questions people are asking is, is Iserman in trouble? To me, the more unanswered question is, does any part of him say, I've had enough of this? Because you know how much he's burning inside that this happened. You know, he may not be playing, but he feels that disappointment as much as anybody does who's wearing the jersey. You know, I'll say this too, like there are questions about the fans booing at the end of the game. That's one of those games you can't criticize the fans. Like, everybody's disappointed, you can't criticize them. They've been out of the playoffs for 10 years. The Detroit hockey fans are great fans. Like you just have to eat it. If they're upset and they boo you and the Islanders fans booed on Sunday night, like you just have to take it. There's nothing you can do. But boy, as I was watching that, I was in shock and I could only imagine, like me watching on TV as a detached reporter was in shock. You only imagine how everyone else felt and you could see it on the Red Wings faces. But I think the biggest question right now, before you get the roster is, how does Iserman himself feel? It was quite shocking. It was like early to mid second period of that game and poor Mickey Redmond, like the great Mickey Redmond on the color commentary with Ken Daniels on the Red Wings broadcast is saying on the air, like almost pleading to the team to like get playing. He's like, come on, you guys, like you got to start taking control of the game, like start inflicting your will on the on the game and all of that. You're thinking, holy smokes, when you consider the stakes of that game. And maybe it's just one of those situations where team got tight a little bit and New Jersey's got nothing to lose. Jack Hughes is flying around, they're making passes. Like it's a no lose situation really for New Jersey in that case and everything to lose for the Red Wings. But I'm watching that, I'm going, oh my gosh, the last thing you think you would hear or that would even need to be discussed, considering how much that meant to Detroit to stay alive, knowing that Ottawa had won earlier in the day against the Islanders. But another year for Detroit, where they get close, it comes down to almost the very end. But the similar theme of disappointment for the Red Wings and Hockey Town that's been longing for playoffs since their last appearance in 2016. I know people are going to be wondering about the Islanders too. I don't wait till them on Friday. We'll do them in our next pod. I want to take a couple days and think about them a bit more too before we go into them. And you know, Kyle, so let's look at the bottom of that Eastern Conference right now. Yeah, so Philly's the, yes. Did you see the stat that first time ever that not one of the three New York based teams are in the playoffs? That's incredible. Incredible. That's what I thought. Sorry, sorry to interrupt you. No, no, no, that was a good interruption. Unlike minor options, which are all terrible. That was a good interruption. So we got Philly at 94. Philly needs two points in their final two games and they're both at home. They played tonight. They've got Carolina and they've got Montreal. Now, Carolina to me is interesting because they just played two games where they had a lot of AHL call-ups on their roster and they demolished people. They demolished Chicago 7-2 and they beat the mammoth 4-1 with rosters that, you know, were missing some key pieces and had some depth players up there. And Carolina has something to play for. One more point and they clinched home ice advantage throughout the Eastern Conference playoffs. So, you know, Carolina has been stampeding people a bit lately with a shorthanded roster and they have something to play for. So that'll be a great game, a big, big game in Philadelphia on Monday night. So, and the other thing to remember what the Flyers is, they don't win the tiebreaker against anybody here, against the Washington or Columbus. Yeah. So they need to win outright. They've got the advantage that the only team of those three with two games left, they need two points and they're in. The Capitals and Blue Jackets actually play each other on this week. That's their last game. I kind of wondered Kyle if Ovechkin would even play it. But if Philly doesn't win on Monday night, he's gonna have to play. So, Capitals, Blue Jackets, the winner of that game will have a chance to beat Philly. One point by the Flyers knocks out Columbus and two points by the Flyers knocks out Washington. Their fate is in their hands, but they don't win the tiebreaker. And I just have to say that Marton, if you can get a player, if you can get a player that gives you that jolt in game number 75 or 76, find that guy. Because boy, Marton, he's looked excellent. You know, I had a friend from Philly text me and said, have you been watching Marton in the referees here? And I said, I have been a little bit. I have been a little bit. He's gotten a couple of John matches. And that's where I wonder if guys like Tauket and Breyer are asking, okay, what's going on here? Is there something our guy is doing wrong? Or is he being unfairly targeted? So it's just something to keep an eye on there. But boy, he looks really good, really good. Two points and Philly's in. Yes, we also shout out James Hagens made his NHL debut for Boston on Sunday, picked up his first career point, got an assist there. So the Bruins are excited there and so Elliott, we had the last two Sundays, we had back to back Sundays of coaching changes, Rory McElroy, back to back master's titles, second straight green jacket this Sunday. And made 18 a little interesting. Sure did. And that Schaeffler birdie putt on 17 that just missed like we were back close to a Schaeffler McElroy playoff if that one had gone in. Anyway, it was another great Sunday at Augustus. So he goes back to back and for back to back years for the first time in over a decade, sends playoffs. You still got that cue card? I have it somewhere. I used it last year. So you don't want to be too much of a one trick pony. You didn't bring it back this year. I think Travis Green, the best coaching job of his career. Not to say that all your other years were terrible Travis, but this was the best coaching job of his career. And those players and I give a lot of credit. She see by the way Dennis Gilbert's hockey pants like unraveled. That was weird. How does that happen? Yeah, very strange. But a lot of those defensemen to like their blue line was held to literally as we found out with Gilbert's pants held together with duct tape, string and safety pants. Cameron Grady is coming up like playing well. It's just it's so impressive. Yeah, they did. Those Sanders players did a lot of distractions this year. A lot of distractions, but they put it together. And I'll say this too that the, you know, what's the key word around the NHL these days, data driven. The Ottawa Sanders are data driven. And I think that some of those teams at the top of those at that conference, they look at it like this is going to be a handful if they get any kind of gold tending and all marks been pretty good lately. If they get any kind of gold tending, they are going to be a handful in the first round of the playoffs. Like, you know, I will say this, that Kachuk thing looked weird on Saturday. I'm still waiting. I think we're all still waiting for an explanation of what exactly happened there. And obviously he didn't play Sunday. But, you know, we'd heard that they didn't think it was anything serious as they went through testing. We'll see. But, you know, health matters. And, you know, we see it in Montreal, you know, that looked like Dobson may have broken something in his hand. And, you know, when they say re-evaluated in two weeks, that means they just don't know. But it's that time of year, right? Thomas Shabbat shows up two weeks, fooled you all. Everybody becomes Wolverine at this time of year. Everybody's Logan. Everybody's James Hallett. Everybody thinks they're made of adamantium. Yeah. Well, we talked about it a few times. That Travis Green clip of zero negativity in this room, and they went 26 and 4 since that night to get into the playoffs and still a shot. You know, we'll see what happens with Boston's final game of the year of grabbing wild card one, currently in the second wild card spot. By the way, Elliott, you remember that thought line question maybe a couple months ago or not even that long ago of successive seasons improving your point total year over year? Nick Suzuki. Yes. That's the question was related to Suzuki. So he's now at six consecutive seasons. By the way, first 100-point player on the Canadian since Matt Nazlin back in the 85-86 campaign. Wow. Got to 101 on Sunday night. So congrats to Suzuki there. But Drake Batherson, he has now tied Vic Stasciak for most consecutive seasons in this category in history with eight consecutive seasons. Batherson did? Yes. He got it actually on Thursday night against Florida. He had 68 points last year. He is now up to 70. Every season of his career, he has improved his point total from the one previous. That's incredible. Contract time for Batherson too. Yes, extension elbow this summer. Not a bad time to keep the streak alive. That's right. But him and Vic Stasciak stand the long road. Everybody else in history. So I wanted to update that. I think a couple people flagged that for us. Thank you for being on top of it much better than we are. But we wanted to put that out there now. I'm glad you did that. Auto was in. How about the West? First, before we go any further, with the Anaheim Ducks, and we both did want to shout out to Steve Carroll, who's retiring at the end of the year. Honored before the game night by the Ducks in a really nice ceremony. He had a bit of a bonus. He got to call it Cutter Goche's 40th of the year. As Goche came back for the first time since that game in Toronto, where he got that cross check and got hurt. So it was good to see Goche back because anytime a player misses that much time at this point of the year, you immediately wonder exactly what we're dealing with. But Steve, great job. Great job over the years. For Anaheim, you saw the highest of the highs. And congratulations and enjoy retirement. And sooner or later, Kyle and I will both be with you maybe earlier than we both expected. Okay, so the West Playoff Race, as we talked about on the last pod, Los Angeles controls its destiny. You know, the Jets and the Sharks are on fumes. They need a Christmas miracle. And you know what the problem with that, Kyle, is? It's not Christmas. It's April. Yep. It's April. Last I checked, Christmas is not in April. They need to win out. The Kings can't get two. And the Predators can't get basically two. So they're still alive by miracle time. As we talked on the last pod, the Kings control their destiny. They did what they had to do. They beat Edmonton. And they have the worst tiebreaker, but they have the best schedule. They go on the road, but they've got, where they've been good this year, they're 1999 and 10 on the road. And they've got Calgary, Seattle and Vancouver. It is in their hands. The Predators, who are one point back of them and would have the tiebreaker, they have two games left. And their two games are a little more difficult. They've got San Jose and Anaheim at home. The Kings have control. They will determine how this ends. But the other thing we've got to mention here is what's going on at the top of the Pacific Division. Vegas is the team in control. They've got two games left. They've got a one point lead on the Oilers and Docks. Vegas has two home games, Jets in Seattle, the Oilers who would have the tiebreaker in all this. If everybody gets tied, they have the best number of regulation wins. They have two at home, Colorado and Vancouver and Anaheim, which is now tied with the Docks with third because of that tiebreaker are in Nashville and in Minnesota. They have the toughest finish. The other thing for Edmonton to keep an eye on this week is now that they're coming back home, they're going to get a closer look at dry saddle and how he's skating. And that should give them a better idea of what his timeline is. But Nashville would have the tiebreaker on the Kings, but they start out with two games left, one point down, and the Kings in the driver's seat. Now, you know, the one thing about the Jets, that's a big rivalry, Jets Vegas. They've battled each other quite a bit and the Jets were really embarrassed on Saturday, really embarrassed on Saturday. I'm curious to see, is it over for them this year or do they put up a fight against the Vegas on Monday night because they could cause Vegas some problems even though the Oilers first game was against Colorado. It's been a tough year for Winnipeg. I have to say, I mean, we'll see. You still got to get it over the finish line, but give the Kings credit. I mean, it was a nice touch on Saturday night with Copa Tar, dressing the crowd afterwards and how emotional he got. But with the opportunity to, still as he said, I'm not just playing the last few games of the regular season. He's got plans of playing beyond that and to try to get into the playoffs. They have three games to go, which is more than Nashville at 80 and Anaheim, of course, is 80 if the Kings decide, hey, we'd like to track down third in our division if we can too. But the fact that they remain here, it's impressive considering how little they like to win in regulation. They have managed to stay afloat and were full value in shutting out the Oilers on Saturday afternoon. I don't know how, I don't know how, but they're still right there and in very much control of their own destiny. I'll say this, as you know, there are going to be howls. The Kings have 21 regulation wins that's tied for 30th in the NHL with Chicago. The Canucks are last 15. If they make the playoffs with, I don't know, anywhere from 21 to 24, there are going to be howls of protest about this. People are going to be big mad. And we should mention at the bottom too, for the lottery, the Canucks have been locked into the best odds for some time now, but Chicago has now locked themselves into 31. So they will have the second best odds with the Rangers and the Flames right now standing third and fourth. All right. Nashville in their GM search? Yeah, let's go through these quickly. As I mentioned on Saturday night, Tom Fitzgerald has been added to the contender list there. I do believe also that Jeff Kelty, one of their current assistant GMs, did receive an in-person interview as well. I believe the predators have decided they are going to go external. And even though Fitzgerald was the captain there a long time ago, he's been away for a while, so he is considered an external candidate. So I don't think it's going to be Kelty, but I heard he did well. And I think, I mean, who knows what the future holds here, but I'm curious to see if he doesn't get this, if other organizations start calling and asking to talk to him. I heard he got an interview and I heard he did quite well. I just don't think the predators want to go internal. I'm also curious to see here if the predators take a look at either Kevin Adams or Brad Treeliving. They want an AGM or GM that has recently served in the position. And the fact that they've gone to Fitzgerald, and I think he is a bit of a unique case because he was their first captain. And I think he really wanted the opportunity to chase this job. The fact they've opened it to him, I do wonder if they talked to the other two guys. I heard really good things about Bill Scott's interview. And I wanted to correct a couple of things. I'd said that Jamie Langenbrenner interviewed there. Someone had told me that was incorrect. And Scott White definitely spoke to them. But I'm not convinced he actually went in person. He's from Dallas. So I wanted to mention those things. Toronto, I think they're going to have a bunch of interviews this week. As I said, on Saturday night, I'm under the impression they are starting the search, looking at one person. And again, I think the key thing to remember here is that we don't know what the structure of this front office is going to look like yet. I think they're going to find a person that they really like and then figure out how it's all going to look. So I think that's so it's possible that more than one person they interview there ends up in their front office. But right now, the search is for one individual. And we'll see where we go. I also mentioned on Saturday night, we've talked about Sunny Meadow before. I think they're going to ask for permission for more people in Florida. And I suspect one of those people is going to be Gregory Campbell. But we'll see. The other one is New Jersey. And they're going to start this week. And Sunny Meadow, I think for sure, John Chaka for sure. I'm curious about Lang and Brunner. And we'll see where else we go there. But I think they're really going to start this week. And the Devils are not doing a search firm. They are doing this one internally. By the way, by the way, I wanted to mention there is a scandal brewing in the National Hockey League. Oh, what is it this time? We were talking about the Xameth. Yeah. So I know somebody who was at that game on Saturday night against Carolina. And he sent me a video. And he said, the Xameth is a fantastic idea. But it is a fraud on the American people. I was laughing. I was like, what are you talking about? He goes, it picks up like 12 people. And it does two laps. And then it goes off the ice. And the real Xambonis come on and flood. I said, well, how's that? Take all the glory. I said, how was that a fraud on the American people? He says, I was led to believe this was a real life, actual, functional Xamboni. No, it's a party Xam. It's the party Xam. It is the Xambonis response to the pedal pub phenomenon. It's the best answer I could give. I was laughing my head off with these texts. Oh my God, I got a few responses over the weekend of your Mammoth Can't Fly line. Okay, there's there's a couple of things we should deal with here. Yes, you did go to the morning skate Saturday. I did. Yes, there were there were a couple of interesting things there. First of all, I did get a brief chance because he wasn't starting. Tarasov started for Florida. So Bobrovsky, I had a chance to speak to him briefly. And I just asked him, is there any chance you're retiring? And he said, no, I want to play. And I asked him, you know, is there anything that matters to you? Travel, geography, are there certain places you would be willing or not willing to go? And he just said, he pointed right down, he said, here, you know, I want to be here. And, you know, I didn't expect him to say much more than that. But he made it clear he was not retiring. And he wanted to stay a Panther. We'll see. I think that as I've reported before, I think there was an ask somewhere similar to what Brad Marchand got, or similar structure. And I don't think the Panthers are willing to do that. At the time, we'll see where we go here. And I'll say this too. You know, it was a bit of a patchwork lineup. And I wanted to show it out, Wilmer Scoug, who made his NHL debut. And the story I heard was that they actually called him up earlier in the season. And but he had one last game to play in the American Hockey League, like they made the decision to call him up, and he was going to play a last game in the HL. And he got hurt. And so he couldn't couldn't come up. But the Panthers made good on it. And he played. And I was glad he got his opportunity. Because when you get the opportunity, and you get injured, and you can't do it, that sucks. And I would hate for him to have to wait till next season. So I'm really happy for him and his family that he got to play on Saturday night. But I'll say this about the Panthers, like there are a few of them, the veterans who said, when they see the Stanley Cup this year, they are going to look at the team that wins. And they're going to say, that could have been us, like we could beat them. And I said, even though you've been there three years in your own one, two, and they go, Oh, yeah, like, doesn't matter. We're going to look at them, whoever that is and say, we can beat those guys. So the demise of the Panthers is very much premature. Yeah, very good. And not surprising. That's the way that team is wired as Paul Murray says to say, nothing is permanent in this sport. The Vancouver Canucks. I mean, there's lots of questions and speculation over how things are going to look going forward at the top of the pyramid organizationally with regards to management. And it sounds like there's some other decisions to be made throughout the organization as well at season's end. Yeah, so there's been a lot of talk about what's going to happen. But the other thing I heard is that when there's conversations about changes that also may include the scouting staff, there's a couple teams. And I think New Jersey is another where there's a lot of people who don't have contracts for next year. And I think the Canucks and their scouting staff, I think almost everybody there is unsigned. And New Jersey, there's a lot of people there who are unsigned. And it's hard. Like, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to discount anyone's feelings in that in any way. It's really hard to have this much uncertainty. You know, Kyle, you and I work in a business that's a lot like that. You know, a lot of times in our business contract negotiations can go right down to the wire. I've been in situations and seen situations where it's been used as a strategy to try to make one side or the other uncomfortable. I've learned it wasn't always an easy thing for me to deal with. But I've learned in my career that in this business, you have to be prepared for that. You have to be prepared that people will use deadlines or wait to try to make you uncomfortable. And it's happened several times in my career. And I don't know that I would ever say I'm comfortable with that. But I've learned to be calm with that because you realize that's just the way it goes in our business sometimes. You know, I think in hockey, it used to be different. People would be very careful about not letting individuals go too late into their last year, especially if they were going to be kept. I believe in a couple of these cases, people have come forward to say, hey, we should try to take care of some of these individuals. And it just hasn't happened. So I've lived that and I understand that. So I think in Vancouver's case, especially and New Jersey's case, especially, and I'm sure there's other situations out there, it's led people to believe that there are changes coming, not only to some of the bigger positions potentially, but some of the ones that maybe you don't think of first. And, you know, the one thing I say about scouting is, you know, there's always this debate about how you should do it properly. Everybody this year has talked about how a team like Boston came back so quickly. One of the ways Boston came back is they had really good pro scouting. And, you know, I think pro scouting is one of the places that really gets cut a lot now. All I would say here is that if you don't do that properly, you're in big trouble. You're in big trouble. And I think that I think you have to value whether it's data driven, or it's eyes on eyes in the crowd. And I think both matter. Better make sure you do it properly. I hate to see people uncertain, especially in this day and day and age economy is tougher. Look, I, I realize sometimes people don't want to give clarity before they have to, but if you can give people clarity as early as possible, I always say it's the right thing to do. One thing I wanted to mention though about the Canucks Kyle on Sunday night, Curtis Douglas scored his first NHL goal. Yes. That's always great to see. It's always great to see a player score his first goal. But the thing that really stood out to me was the reaction of the other players. What does that mean to you when you see your teammates that excited, not only after the goal, but also on the bench for you? Honestly, goosebumps. I think I have chills right now just talking about it. It was, it was, I don't want to get emotional, but it was, it was really, really special. And I think just coming down the line and seeing all the smiles and people freaking out because, because they have, they've been there the whole time and cheering me on and making sure I don't get down and haven't scored yet. It's been a lot of games. Will it ever come, that kind of thing. And once you've won that many games and you haven't scored, it kind of gets into your head. So seeing them pull in for me was, was really special. I'll never forget it. They were ecstatic for him. That's when you know you've got something. Yes. In a long season, you're 30 second in the NHL. That guy scores his first goal. And they react that way. That's something you can build with. Okay, Fridge, a couple more things to get to before the final thought. Also, just wanted to congratulate our teammate, Megan Mickelson, part of the 2026 class in the Alberta Hockey Hall of Fame. So, Megan, congratulations to that. Yeah, very nice and well-deserved, two-time Olympic gold medalist amongst a whole host of accolades and achievements in her career. Nobody else in that broadcast getting in the Hall of Fame, by the way. Just Megan. That's right. Yes, you stand alone, Megan. That's good. So on Saturday, I texted Scott Oak. I said, clearly my immune system could not handle the thought of you retiring. And he responded, frankly, I am sick of myself. And it was, it was a great Oki Lovin' on Saturday night from the pregame show on through the early games. And then the late one that he of course was ringsight for in San Jose. And it's beautiful how it worked out, the fact that it was in San Jose, his final after hours, where Ryan Reeves is a member of the Sharks organization, his connection to the Oak family, that Darcy was able to be down there for three of them going at it for over half an hour, was a fantastic television. Dana and I watched it back here on Sunday morning and we're giggling away a few times there. The fact that they got an updated congrats and shout out video from Snoop Dogg, that is big time, big time. You could tell that really meant a lot to Scott, right? Oh, yeah. I love that. We both know him and his mannerisms really well. And the way he reacted to that, you could tell that he was prepared for almost anything. He was not prepared for that. Our guys really had to work at that. I was kind of told that they weren't sure they were going to get it, but they really pushed for it. And the people responsible for that deserve a lot of credit behind the scenes because they really had to work to get that done. And I loved it. Kevin gave a very good speech about Scott at the end of our part of the show on Saturday and Ron looked at me and I just said, I'm not ready yet. I'm actually writing something. So when he signs off for the final time, I'll just publish some thoughts about him that I have. It's going to be easier for me to do it that way. Gotcha. I forgot that under this current deal with Rodgers and the NHL that will expire at the end of this season before the new one kicks in, but it was announced on the same day you and Scott both coming aboard to join the Rodgers NHL hockey coverage. Do you remember that? Actually, I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was kind of bit by bit over the course of once the season ended of there's the play by play commentators and just different hosts and that of course, it was all a big announcement. And on one of the days, the announcement was both Elliott Friedman and Scott Oak were joining the Rodgers family. Thanks for reminding me. I completely forgot about that. I didn't remember that at all. Not the first or last time I dragged down a Scott Oak production. Yes. Yeah. That's good. All right. So we'll save our final thoughts on Scott for another day here to come. And before we get to the final thought of this block, Michael Hage, going back to Michigan, not joining the Montreal Canadiens for their playoff run. So how did the player and the team arrive at this decision? Because it sounds like it was quite amicable both ways. So they had a dinner get together a couple of weeks ago before the frozen four and it was Hage, it was Ken Hughes, it was John Sedgwick. I thought John Sedgwick only goes where the paparazzi go. The last time we really saw him, he was being mobbed with Demodauv. I figured maybe that was too small for Sedgwick to attend. And also Hage's advisors went with him. And it was a pretty long meeting. And I heard it was a pretty honest meeting. I think that everybody kind of talked about where this could go and what the different options were. And I think the Canadians let it be known that if he wanted to go pro, they were ready for him. And I would probably bet that the Canadians preferred slightly that he would go pro. I think most teams are kind of like that. But it wasn't a demand or anything. Like I've seen some situations before where teams are like, you have to go pro, you've got no benefit to doing this. I don't think the Canadians felt that way. I think they were prepared, as we said on Saturday night. There's no wrong answer here, and it's your decision. And Hage thought about it. And he notified Montreal on Saturday that he was going back to Michigan for his junior year. And I think everybody understands this. And there's a few reasons Michigan lost and a game they dominated. Denver got great goal tanning and beat them in overtime in the frozen four and then won the national championship. And you know, if you've been looking the transfer portal opens tomorrow. And you know, Jeff Merrick reported tonight that they've got some reinforcements coming from the OHL next year and Michigan's going to be ridiculous. And I definitely think there's some unfinished business there. Hage was nursing and injury. He might not have played this year. But to me, the number one thing is unfinished business. And they're going to have a great team next year. And I can't say I really blame them. You know, I didn't talk about it a lot on Saturday night, because I didn't really have a lot of time to get into it. But there's there is a financial aspect here. If he's in the American hockey league, he could probably make more at Michigan than he would at the AHL. And that's not the most important thing, but it is a thing. And you know, what someone else said to me is that, look, if you're a 20 year old and he turns 20 tomorrow on Tuesday, you know, your choice is, do you want to be a 20 year old at the campus at the University of Michigan? Or do you want to be a 20 year old in the American hockey league, even in a place like Laval, which is probably better than a lot of other locations? And, but I think you'd probably want to be 20 on a college campus, all things being equal. But the bottom line is, I think the number one decision is, it's unfinished business, get the job done. And, you know, I've seen some situations, the one that I really remember was Jack Johnson in Carolina, when, you know, when he went back, Carolina traded and I don't think there's anything like that here. I still think that Hage is very much in Montreal's plans. I think Montreal is very much in his plans. And they have his rights for two more years. I don't think there's anything to worry about here. I don't think the Canadians are looking to trade them. And I think nobody has to get into panic mode here. Who's a Canadians fan? Yeah, it's like that question. How many times in your life do you get to be a junior, a star player at the University of Michigan on its hockey team? Yep. What's Laval, Canadians, wherever it may go from there. There's plenty of years waiting for that to come. But what an opportunity to go back to Michigan. By the way, we'll see how the playoffs unfold with the Everett Silver tips, but at some point here at the right time, I may have a good unfinished business story with them. Oh, foreshadowing. Yes. And also it leads into the final thought. Time now for the final thought presented by the Toyota BZ. And you concluded Saturday headlines over the weekend with the Western Hockey League and travel plans going forward. Air travel, now a plan to be part of the equation and extending the regular season by a week. So how did the WHL arrive at this conclusion? So it sounds like that they did this a couple of months ago and they're now letting people know but you know, one of the things that kind of came out was that if you heard Daniel Brier talk about Marton, he talked about how this year at Michigan State, the schedule allowed him not only to play, but get physically stronger and physically more advanced. And I think the Canadian leagues have seen that and they started saying, what can we do to help our players with that? And the WHL, which has the biggest travel challenges of these leagues simply because of geography, Dave said, we have to address this. And they have by now increasing their regular season by seven days, not games days, as you mentioned. And what that will do is really cut down the number of weekday games, more days to train, recover, rest, and do sort of those off ice things that players need to do. And yes, as you said, they're going to do some air travel. And the information I have is that interconference trips in most situations, easing the burden for the one annual trip for each club over the Rockies. And you know, a couple of people asked me, how is that going to work financially? And I don't have those answers yet. I'm sure they will all come out, Kyle. But I think that people would generally look at it and they would say, that's an improvement. That's an advance. Look, all these leagues are in competition now. And they have to do things that are more player friendly. And if players look at this and they say, okay, I like that, that's a win for you. And we'll see how this works out. But I'm sure every league is looking at adjustments like this to make themselves more attractive to players. It's a smart move. You have to do it. Yeah, I agree. We talked about the USHL and their new standard player agreement last week. And I'm right there with you. I mean, you've got Victoria, I believe is to be considered the furthest West team in the league and Brandon Manitoba, the furthest East. That is a 24 hour drive. A lot of distance and a lot of teams in between. So though it's certainly been a part of the charm, and I think a lot of players would have gone through that league over its history, have lifelong great stories about those long bus rides. But some of those are very long. And it's about time to bring in air travel when it's suitable and when it makes the most sense. So good stuff there. All right. That was the final thought presented by the Toyota BZ. Don, by the way, your team win the slow pitch game tonight? It couldn't do it without me. We lost. Oh, and two on Sunday night. Well, wait a sec. They lost with you too. There's no room for logic here, Elliot. Stop. Dom, if we're going to delay the start of this pod so that you can play softball, you got to win. I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. I played great, but the other people were awful. Do you want to know who our pitcher is? Okay. It's my boss and fearless leader, Cam Berra. Who is that pitcher that went O-27? Oh, no, you remember? So there was Anthony Young. I think he went like O-27 for the Cubs. And I remember Mike Maroth lost 20 games for the Tigers. And if I remember correctly, I remember this story. Mike Maroth lost 20 games for the Tigers. And I can't remember who the reporter was who told me this, but Dimitri Young played for the Tigers at the time. And I think until the 20th loss was in Toronto and all the reporters were surrounding Maroth, I think that's who it was and saying, you know, how does it feel to lose 20 games? And he was gamely answering all the questions. And Dimitri Young was saying, you guys all better be here when he wins 20. I remember that story. Cam Berra, now that you're O-20 this season, we'll be there when you win 20. Oh boy. Yeah. You and the Jays, the Coconies and the Jays in a rut early. Yeah. Gotta dig their way out. That's great. All right. Why don't we take our first break, the thought line on the other side. Also, two, a few weeks back, Elliott has spent some time with the Islanders, recorded some interviews that were meant to turn into features to run during the playoffs. Of course, we know now the Islanders will not be playoff bound. But one of those interviews that he did were with both Matthew Schaefer and Matthew Barzell. We will play that for you at the end of the pod. But first, the thought line up next on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right. Welcome back. Time for the segment of the show where things always have the chance to go off the rails. We do our best to keep it on track. But seldom do we succeed. It is the thought line, Elliott. I have got a beauty to begin today's edition. However, as always, I like to open the floor to you before we begin for any thoughts on the thought lines or any other DMs that caught your eye over the last few days. Okay. I have a few I do want to get to. I'm looking forward to this, Kyle. So the 32 Thoughts thought line has undergone a squash jack over the last little while. All the conversations about Western and Trent and the squash competition between them. Well, Simon Sterling reached out to mention this has probably been sent to you. It hadn't, Simon, you were the first one. But Western this year won its 42nd consecutive Ontario University championship in men's squash. It's got 52 overall, but it's won 42 in a row. That is domination. The purple Satan reigns supreme. And he writes, appreciate everything you, Kyle and Dom, do for hockey and raccoon awareness. One in one a here. One in one a. So Paul Rosenberg, who actually works at Wfan, I was looking at his profile, a true jack of all trades on and off the air, the kind of person who holds a media company together. He said that he was laughing is a fan of the pod and he was laughing at the Mike Francesa clips that Dom included as part of the last episode. And he reminded me that the Giants as part of the Eli Manning show promo last year, the New York Giants did a quick shoot where Mike Francesa is walking through a hotel and he opens up a door and Eli Manning is having dinner with two members of the San Francisco Giants. So there's two New York Giants and there's two San Francisco Giants. One of whom is Matt. Yeah, one of whom is Matt Chapman, I remembered, who used to play for the Blue Jays. Yeah. And anyway, it's like he goes, they really do get together. It's really brilliantly done. And the New York sports fans of a certain vintage absolutely ate it up. So Paul, thank you for reminding me about that. I have a couple of shout outs I want to give. Kyle, first of all, on my flight home from vacation in Miami, I met a fan named Jay, who had a great Chicago Blackhawks tattoo. Really nice guy, chatted with him for a few minutes. I met the father of a Reese Pira, and I wanted to shout him out. A Reese plays for the under 13 Willowdale Hawks of the Greater Toronto Hockey League, and he had a 40 goal season this year. So a Reese, your dad is really, really proud of you and the great season you had for the Willowdale Blackhawks, who were a local team when I was growing up as a youth, but I was not good enough to play for them, of course. Also, at the morning skate in Toronto on Saturday, I met the under 13 Kingston Panthers, who were competing in the Ontario Championships. They were at the morning skate. Nice kids. One of them, a couple of them really liked Thomas Harding from the Panthers, who was in their media relations department. He walked by and they were like, man, that guy's got a sick watch, sick watch. So I told Thomas his watch, really impressed the under 13 Kingston Panthers. And also, I wanted to shout out on Friday night, my wife and I went to go see Dwayne Gratsky. Now, Kyle, are you familiar with Dwayne Gratsky? It's like he does cover songs. Is it like, is it Canadian artists or? It's everybody. Warm at all? Okay, everybody. Yes. Yeah, you are. You're totally warm. It's a big band. There's about 10 people in the band and it's actually like a clown car because more and more singers keep coming out of nowhere. Oh, wow. Some of them have unbelievable voices, like incredible voices. There were a couple versions there. One of them was The Power of Love, where the woman who was singing it, like, unbelievable voice. Anyway, they're a 90s cover band. They played at the Phoenix Concert Hall in Toronto, which was a place I spent a lot of time in my 20s and 30s. It was an awesome show. We saw it with a couple friends of ours. We met Bobby, who's the manager at the end of the show. And so Dwayne Gratsky is on a tour right now. And they're actually going to New York on May 7th. They're playing their Miracury Lounge. And, you know, they're a group that's pretty well known in Canada, not as well known in the US. But if you're into that kind of thing, or you just like good music, they're a 90s tribute band. They're playing May 7th at the Miracury Lounge. I always like to help out people as they try to increase their audience. They are fantastic. And if you go, you will have a great time. Great band. Great show. That's great. Great name. And if that's what the show sounds like, what an outing. Glad you had a good time on Friday. Yeah, a lot of great, a lot of great, like I'm a big cover band guy. I love cover band music. And they were, they were fantastic. They can really build it out. All right. Speaking of all time performances, you ready for this? Yep. Do you remember last year, the poem from Pittsburgh? Yes, yes, I do. I do. The Penguins fan that made his plea that it was time for Crosby to go elsewhere. Out of love and respect and for the betterment of both parties, right? Yeah. And they got a lot of reaction. Well, as we know now, one year later, Pittsburgh's headed back to the playoffs. So we've got a new version of the poem from Pittsburgh, but we learn here, though it's intended for the penguins, it is not from Pittsburgh. Dumb. Roll it. Hey fellas, love the pod. Thanks for all your hard work. I sent in my poem last year that you dubbed the poem from Pittsburgh. I did include my name at the end of it, but you didn't catch it. Written by Sleuth, your number one fan. My name is Cade and I actually live in Erdrey, Alberta. Why am I not a flame fan? Because I grew up in small towns of Scatchwood and always loved watching Mario. With the penguins clenching their home ice playoff ticket, I decided that I should say sorry to Crosby for asking him to leave last year. So here it goes. Our boy Sid, congrats are in place for leading the penguins through this playoff race. I apologize for last year asking you to leave. It's a regret of mine that I did not believe. I listened to the critics who ranked the penguins dead last. Unlike Lebron, you stayed and this year to be in a blast. Like a true captain, you were willing to go down with your ship. And for that, with my hat, I give it a tip. Thank you for staying and saving you the guilt. There's no question when you're done, a statue will be built. For the next two months, ignore Elliot's poor bedside manner. Take Gino and Tanger on one last ride and hang another banner. No matter what happens, we love you, man. Written by Sleuth, your number one fan. Boom. Ask great stuff. Sleuth, you are the beat poet of a generation. Just number one hit after number one hit is outstanding. He would kill at any fringe festival. Phenomenal stuff. Cade, thank you for following up. We were starting to wonder how you felt about all this. And you certainly let your feelings be known. All right, Jeremy, greetings, Elliot. That is great talent, by the way. That is great talent. Greetings, Elliot, Kyle, and Dom. I have no raccoon reference, so I'll get right to it. On January 12th, 2010, I attended a rangers devils game at Madison Square Garden. I'm a lifelong Rangers fan, and to this day, it's the best game I've ever seen in person. The final score was 1-0 Devils in a shootout. Yes, the best game I ever experienced was a Devils win. Henrik Lundquist made 45 saves, and Martin Broder stopped 51. It was nonstop action matched by world-class gold-tenning on both sides. Unreal to witness, and it was a crime that it had to end in a shootout. I highly recommend a rewatch if you're ever able. My question is, what's the record for the most total shots in a game that ended either in a 0-0 tie or a 1-0 shootout win? I have to believe this one is near the top, if not number one. Thanks for all you do. Love the podcast. Jeremy, I am pleased to tell you, not only did you witness the best game you have ever seen in your life that night, you also witnessed history that- Wow! That is the most combined shots on goal in one game without a goal being scored in regulation or overtime in a regular season contest. Ranger's Devils, January 12, 2010. He was there for it. I think you should never go to another game again, because nothing can top what you've already been through, Jeremy. Yes, yeah, and I hope he kept the ticket stub. That's incredible. 45 saves to 51, and two Hall of Famers in either net. By the way, there's only one game this year that has had a 1-0 scoreline that ended in a shootout, Crackin Islanders, back in November. Okay, I wouldn't have remembered that off the top of my head. Yeah. Dom wrote, there being no ticket stubs anymore is a crying shame. I agree with that. I think if you're a season ticket holder and you want one, you should be able to opt in. I'm with you on this, 100%. I think of that great scene in a fever pitch where Jimmy Fallon gets his season tickets delivered to him at his apartment building. He's just jumping for joy, and it's all in the sheets, all lined up. Anyway, it's like Christmas morning for sports fans. Okay, Aiden from Mississauga. Hello, Elliot, Kyle, and Dom. Had a question for you guys, but first, wanted to say it was pretty cool listening to you guys talk about Johnny Castagna on a couple pods last month. I went to middle school and some of high school with him. I didn't know him very well, but we played high school hockey together on our varsity team when he was in ninth grade. Johnny had scored about 90% of our school's goals that season as a ninth grader and put all the rest of his older kids to shame. We knew he was going places, but how could we have known he would be mentioned on the 32 Thoughts podcast? Not sure what could even possibly top that. Pretty sure that's the highest honor there is. I'm not sure about that, Aiden, but I think there's much better things to say. You will accomplish a lot more in your life, and so will he. Yes. Anyway, onto the question. 32 Thoughts me this. That's going to be one of my new favorite lines, by the way. How do coaching contracts work? With all these recent coaching changes, it had me thinking about how often coaches get fired and hired. We always hear that a coach has signed an X year contract with a team, but is then let go before it's over. Is the team still obligated to pay that full amount even if they are fired? Are there buyout rules? Figured this was worth putting back in a circulation, Elliot, as we have reached that time of the season where there are some coaching changes, potentially more coming as the regular season ends, and maybe a refresher for those that aren't familiar for how this part of the business works. Aiden, it's pretty simple. Let's just say you hire Kyle as a coach. I know you wouldn't do that, but let's just say you did. No. And you hired him to a three year, $5 million a year contract, so three times five, $15 million. Let's just say you're so angry at the job Kyle does a year and a half into his term there, and you fire him. Unless you are firing Kyle for cause, like he ruined the bathrooms on the way out, or he torched an office or something like that, then you have full Sergio Garcia. Yes, he gets kicked off the Masters. You owe him the rest of his salary. Now, there are things that can happen here. Number one, let's just say Kyle does TV. Somebody likes Kyle and says, I think he could be good on television, also far fetched, but let's just pretend it can happen. Then there's something called offset language there in most of these contracts. So let's just say, for example, you're paying Kyle $5 million a year and he gets a TV job at $500,000. That means now you only have to pay him $4.5 million instead of the full $5 million. So that happens. If somebody wants to hire Kyle as a coach, he has to ask you for permission, or the team has to ask you for permission, and most of the time that happens. And if, so let's just say after year two, you've already fired Kyle halfway through the season, but another team wants to hire him, then basically the way it works at that point in time is how much, let's just say the new team says, you know what, we want to hire Kyle as our coach, but we only want to pay him $3 million a year. Now, the way this works is, you know, some people say to me, why don't I just hire Kyle for a dollar and you have to pay him the rest. The NHL has a dispute mechanism for this. Basically, you have to pay what they term fair market value for him. Now, there are some situations where I think, depending on the revenue setups of two teams, like there was a situation a few years ago where a coach from a high revenue team got fired and a coach from a team that wasn't in the same revenue bracket wanted to hire him. And initially, the higher revenue team said, no chance, what you're offering is not acceptable, and we're not going to let you hire them. For example, I think they only wanted to pay like a couple million, and the other team was actually going to end up paying a little bit more. And the team said, no, like we're just not doing it. We'd rather not let you have them if we're going to still be paying a majority of his salary. And the NHL got kind of involved a little bit, and they worked it all out. So if somebody else wants to hire Kyle, and if it's more than what Kyle was making, then the first team is done. They don't have to worry about it anymore. But if they end up paying him a little bit less and everybody agrees to it, you're still on the hook for the last year at whatever the difference is between what he signs for and the five million that you were already paying him. So that's how it works. That also speaks to just how a lot of these coaches are wired and just the desire to get right back into the game. Because for a lot of us, boy, it sure would be enticing to know you've got two more years of being paid multiple or around a million dollars worth for not doing anything if you still had term left on your deal, but for other coaches to go, nope, I'd rather seek out the best next opportunity as soon as possible and get right back into the mix. A lot of them don't like being out of work for long, even if there's the opportunity to do nothing and be paid for a while too. Yeah, I mean, all of that is true. All of that is true. All right. From Taylor in Kelowna. Do you see this thing on Reddit, by the way, Elliot? So credit to Griffin Porter. He did the research to kind of match these two. So I believe Taylor went to Reddit first with this concept and has submitted it now to the thought line. It says, my solution to NHL tanking and bad team index dynamic beer pricing. Well, I saw this in the NBA. Yes. I have to say, I don't normally read Reddit. I see enough craziness on social media that I don't need to add Reddit to that recipe, but I did hear about this and I saw some posts about it in the NBA. Yes. So first, I would say, I'm not sure that the NHL has much of a tanking issue, especially when you compare it to something like the NBA, but I thought this whole concept was pretty cool here. So we're including it today. So after watching another, this is Taylor's words. So after watching another horrendous Canucks game and having recently paid far too much for beer at said horrendous Canucks game, I came up with a real life dynamic price solution to help incentivize winning and punish bad teams and reward their suffering fans. Well, I think this could work in the NBA as well to stop tanking. What if the NHL mandated that all beers for all teams were $8 at the start of the season? Teams would be able to charge 25 cents extra for each additional win and into the playoffs as well and have to lower the price by 25 cents for every loss. Elite team, you're paying a premium playoff pricing all year for beer. Average team, normal bar pricing. Bad team, it's a cheap night out. So he'd list the whole current standings as of when he submitted this. And so you've got a team like Colorado on the high end that's got a plus 35 win differential in their record. Therefore, under this setup, the cost for one beer at an avalanche home game would be $16.75 at the bottom end. His beloved Vancouver Canucks that have a minus 18 win differential would cost just a paltry $3.50. So would you be more likely to go to games if your teams sucked but beers were cheap? Would owners be a little more willing to try and win or would this just make you hate winning because it costs you more? I bet you there would be a lot of like, first of all, I love the idea when I first saw it, I got a good laugh out of it. And I always admire people who come up with these kinds of different ideas. There's nothing wrong with making people think differently. I would think though the answer would be C because you sit there and you say, okay, imagine how much playoff tickets are going to be for this team. And now I've got to be ripped off at the concession lines too. Yeah, I think I guarantee you 100%, it would be like, okay, my team's winning and how much do you think I have to spend to go to a game in the playoffs? That would definitely become a meme. Yes. So I could see it at the lower end, fans being all for it. But now I did a certain point. Yeah, if your team like Colorado that runs away with things, you're like, come on. Why am I, why is my wallet being punished? Because I cheer for a good team. It's a fun conversation. And I just, while I wonder, revenue wise, would there be enough incentive there for ownership to go, yeah, we better get this straightened out because we're charging people nothing for beer at our games. This is not a good business model. All right, one more here. Jeffrey, a UBC alum from Calgary. Dear Kyle, Elliott and Dom, big fan of the show, make time to listen while on the C train each day going to the office in downtown Calgary. As a resident of the fine city of Calgary for the last 15 years while growing up in White Rock, BC, I have found myself very invested this year cheering for one goal losses. It seems the value of not just a top five pick, but a top three to five pick is enormous. So there is such high incentive for teams to finish in the bottom three to guarantee that top five draft pick. That gave me a question for the Sportsnet stats team. How many teams have made the Stanley Cup final in the last 15 years without a core player who was once a top five draft pick? I can't think of many besides maybe those Horrid Boston Bruins. Oh, and as a Westerner, I wanted to say that I'm confused about all this talk about Trent University. Surely it can't be that bad. It's not like your friend went to Simon Fraser. Thanks for all you do. That's pretty funny. That's right. That's a big rivalry, UBC, Simon Fraser, Victoria too, UBC against Victoria. Another big rival. So the question was how many teams in the 21st century made it without last 15 years? Yeah, last 15 years. Yeah, made it without like a top five pick. A top five pick on the roster. Yeah, I'm just kind of going through it off the top of my head. I mean, obviously Florin and Edmonton, they didn't draft them all, but Florida traded for two, Sam Reinhart and Sam Bennett, and they already had Barkov. Vegas traded for Eichel. He was a second overall pick. And they also signed Petrangelo as a free agent. I think he was fourth. Did he not go fourth overall? Tampa had Stamco's, and Headman, obviously, Colorado, Nathan McKinnon, Cal McCarr, fourth overall. We are talking teams that got to the finals, so not necessarily just the next five. I'm looking at them. Montreal, Kerry Price was a fifth overall pick. Did they have anyone higher than that in 2021? Price five. Doing this off the top of our head, so forgive us if we're missing an obvious one. Dallas had Sagan and Hayskanen in 2020. As mentioned, Boston, 2019. St. Louis, we had Petrangelo in there. Washington, Ovechkin was a first overall pick. Backstrom was a high pick. You know, the Vegas... Cockanyemi from Montreal, too, of course. Cockanyemi from Montreal, of course. Forgot about him. Vegas, the Misfits. Did they have anybody in there? Yes. Pittsburgh, obviously, Malkin and Crosby. They were high guys. San Jose had Joe Thornton and Patrick Marlowe. Yeah, Vegas had Mark Andre Fleury. Right. Good call. That's a bad miss by me. Nashville in 2017. Pittsburgh also had Castle, who was a high pick. Nashville. Would they have had anybody? They did. Chicago, 2015. They had Nigel Hansen. It was a guest last week. Yes. By the way, that was a great interview. It was very good. Thank you. Fourth overall. Chicago, we know. Kings. Doubt he was two. Did the Rangers in 14 have anybody? Yes, Rick Nash. Okay. I forgot that he was there in 14 off the top of my head. Boston again in 2013. We've already discussed them. New Jersey, 2012. Broder was a first-rounder middle. Parise was a first-rounder middle. Yeah. Now, how long do you want me to let this go on for? I could do this forever. I mean, the Canucks. I mean, the Dallas had Colville check. Oh, right, of course. Canucks, yes. Canucks had the twins. Flyers, 2010. They had Richards and Carter. What about the Red Wings in 09? Is that my team? No. I mean, now we're outside of 15 years. Oh, okay. Sorry. I was told there'd be no math. Okay. Let's end this. There's one team that fits the criteria. So it's got to be either one of the Boston teams or Philly. Yeah. It was the 2019 Boston Bruins that lost to St. Louis in seven. They're the only team in the last 15 years without a top five pick to get all the way to the final. So Philly's outside of 15 years. Who won the 13 Boston? Oh, was it Sagan, right? Second overall, he was still there then? Yep. Yeah. That's who it was. Okay. The last team to win a cup with that criteria. Okay. Hold on. Let me look. Longer than 15 years ago. Yes. I'm looking. I was surprised by this answer. Carolina had Eric Stahl. Anaheim had Niedermeyer. He was a third overall pick. Tampa Bay had Vincent Lecavallier. Niedermeyer's there. Brandon Shanahan. Joe Sackich. Mike Medano. Where was Joe Sackich drafted? Oh, right. He was like 19th. 15th. Something like that. Rob Blake was a later pick. But wait, they had Ray Bork. Where was he drafted? He was drafted seven. Eight. Eight. So it was Colorado? The 01 Colorado Avalanche. It's amazing. You think about all those great players. You know what, it's so funny because you're right. Like I automatically assumed, that's right. Sackich was a later pick. Forsberg was six. So he just misses the top line. Yeah. I remember that. I remember Forsberg was six. For some reason, I thought, you know what? That's right. Because it was Rob Rammage, Perry Turnbull. And then he went after Keith Brown, I think. Bork. Yeah. That's, I would not have thought of that off the top of my head. Yeah. As I said, I was surprised. So there you have it. It's a good one. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for it. It's tough to do without at least one high pick in your organization to play late into the spring. All right. We'll leave it there. 1-833-311-3232. If you'd like to call and leave a voicemail or a poem, or you can email us at 32thoughtsatsportsnet.ca. We'll take one final break and to borrow a line from the great Scott Oak, back to conclude proceedings in a moment. All right. Welcome back. As promised, a number of weeks ago now, Elliott spent some time on Long Island around the Islanders anticipation of the playoffs and with them not going to the postseason this year, still wanted to play some really good audio. And the interview you did, Elliott, with two Matthews, Barzel and Schaefer, what should we be anticipating here? Well, first of all, I know this is probably going to be hard for Islanders fans to hear because they're incredibly disappointed that they were knocked out of the playoffs on Sunday night. But these two were excellent. And I think the number one reason I'm disappointed the Islanders are not in the playoffs is this will not get the proper TV feature during a pregame show in the Stanley Cup, playdowns. But they're great talkers and they play off each other extremely well. And good content is good content and it has to be used. And I think if you can temporarily Islanders fans put aside the disappointment, I think you'll enjoy it. And those of you who are just going to listen because you want to enjoy it, I hope you enjoy it. They were great guests. Like just you'll hear it. I just had to stay out of the way for the most part and they were great. Well, clearly it's something worth listening to if you got that memo to just back right out and let them carry the conversation. Let's get right to it. Schaefer and Barzel and Fridge on 32 Thoughts the Podcast. I guess first question for the purposes of this interview, who is Matthew? I'm probably Matthew, probably Matt, right? Yeah, probably. Yeah, he gets more Matthew. I feel like you go by Matt a lot. Yeah. Okay, because you're the veteran. So you get first choice. Yeah, but you do your first choice. I think I've been Matt for a while. I don't know. I feel like it's kind of... I feel like whenever you actually say like, I actually will. I mean, that's like Mark's the man that Marty's always Matt too. I've never heard... I think that's definitely Matt. Yeah, I feel like Matthew, Barzel, Matt, Barzel, Matt. Yeah. Okay, so... I think of both ways. For the purposes of this one, you're Matthew and you're Matt. Okay. So we have this thing we do sometimes with guys trivia. How much do you know about each other? Okay. You were both number one picks in your Junior League draft. Matt, which team took Matthew? Gary. Matthew. Seattle. Okay, good. I was actually surprised that I know. That's good. It's been a little while. Okay, so Matthew's, Erie Otters have had two other players taken first overall in the OHL draft. They're both prominent NHLers. Yeah, Connor. Yeah. And I think Strowmar was two prominent NHLers. Can I even hit? Yes. Nashville? He's on Nashville now. It's on Nashville now? No visor. Oh, Riley? Yeah. Really? You was drafted at Erie? Yeah. I would have known that just from the start I wouldn't have. I actually would know closer to the draft when there was talks or whatever. I knew McDavid was obviously and then I knew Ryan O'Reilly because he's with the same agency and stuff. So yeah. Was O'Reilly and Erie for a while? Can you play their first? I think so. Really? Yeah. It's nice. Okay, well I'm not a big Junior guy so I don't know if I would have gotten that. I'm impressed you got as well. That was a nice hint. It's still, you got McDavid right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was obvious. Okay, because some guys, I'm not sure they would get it. Really? I think McDavid's a given. Yeah. Okay. Come on, Riley. He's built that organelle. I'm trying to make you feel good. I'm trying to make you feel good. Okay, which one of you is faster? Ah, no. I could say him though. I could say Kev. How about that? He knows it's him. I feel like, I feel like. He knows it's him. Would you say you're faster? Who's faster? Who's faster? Like start. Like would you say you have a better start? Kev, and I say you're faster. He's got young legs. I've had some injuries. You're long distance and you're faster. I could say maybe I have a quicker, no, you have a quick start though. No, I would say he's faster. No. Period. No. I would say. Maybe tight turns. I'll take maybe tight turns, but straight line, like I don't think anyone will be as fast as him. I don't know. I feel like you have a good start too. Like, I mean, I think would you say you have a good start? Listen, I'm a vulture on the NHL edge app. Oh yeah. And they have all the speeds. Yeah, but that's because I know shape is faster than me. Can you check that out? I'm always on that. Yeah. But then we do these things called whammy's and like Barzy leads. I might have the stamina. All right. Let me just for the audience explain what a whammy is. So you got to go, it's all the way down. So you start, you go and then you go boards to boards. You go all the way down, all the way back, all the way down, all the way back straight through the middle as far as you can. And you got to get in what like third. Yeah, under 36 or 38 seconds or something. So like there's times you got to beat. And it's, it's pretty tough though. Like, I mean, it's, since it's just straight line skating, it gets you because it's like all the way down, all the way back, all the way down, all the way back. And then you have to go through the middle. It's pretty fun. It sounds exhausting just listening to it. I know. And are you the king of those? I don't know if I'm the king. I've done well, but I'd say, I'd say Heinemann's right there. Lee's there. Honor's Lee. I'm right there though. You think Lee's he's up there? I think he's up there. He's pretty good. When he, when he, when he bows up there, it's a good, there's a good group. He should win it. I mean, he's going to win it for the next, he'll win for the next 10 years. I don't know. I don't know. So what are you doing on the edge stats all the time? I'm curious. I'm checking. I'm just checking my numbers just to see speed bursts and kind of if I, if I think I had like a good speed brusher in the game, I'll go back and see if it's on the, because it shows your top 10 speed bursts. So I'll see where that was or I'm usually checking though, just where I'm at in the league with the speed burst heat. I mean the 22 mile an hour burst, mcdavid's way ahead. I think shape's like top seven or something. I don't know if I've lost maybe a little bit of top speed, but like the 18 to 20, 20 to 22, I feel like, you know, I'm right there. So I feel like I use my speed. Like I'm always wanting to go. I feel like you use it when you need to, you know, like I feel like you're like very like, like, you're always around the net. And like, I know, like I feel like I'm always just wanting to go, go. You wait till you see that opening and then you use your speed. You don't use like, I feel like I'm just like crazy where I'm just like trying to use my speed up all the time. Like, and like when I maybe don't even need to, and where like Barzy uses it to beat guys when like he sees it uses his like hockey sense. Barzy's cruising at like 20 miles an hour the entire game. Barzy saves his energy. He's a little smarter in that way probably sometimes. So do you ever check these numbers? Not really. I mean, I think I see stuff just from, you know, talking to guys and stuff like that. And, you know, you can look up on the screen and see like me and Barzy always looking at the speed on, on the screen, like on the Jumbotron when we're in game and stuff like that. It's funny. Like we're at TV time and we're going like, oh, look who's at the top of the closer. It sounds like we just mess around or whatever. I'm always trying to catch him in possession. He's overtaking me in the possession category during the games. We're not connected though. There's some games you, you're at two and a half minutes and everybody else is at like 40 seconds. Barzy's just trying to be a nice guy. Actually, that's true. We showed that before your hockey night game this year about your possession numbers. And they, but before we get to that, you were talking about speed. There was a play in practice day. You're both mic'd up or you beat Matthew and he hooked you. Yes. You raised your arm and called a penalty. Yeah. I didn't, the rest of it. Maybe it probably shot. I didn't see it. I didn't see it. I got in the hands a little bit there, but nobody saw it. He got us. He got us the next two though. Oh, did? They had posted on the first one, post the first one. Second time I like tip my stick went over to him and then I was like, I'm not letting. We always hit the first two on one of the morning skate. It's usually me and Bo go together and shape takes the first one and we always, no one's looking to shoot. It's always how can I get an under his triangle? How can I like comparison? Usually they get through too. They get it through a lot of the times. So then the next couple of times I'm like, yeah, I'm not letting it happen. Is this a competition thing? Like, do you guys keep score of this kind of stuff? Oh, like, I mean, I feel like you just kind of keep it in your head in a way. I feel like it's always a competition or whatever. I mean, anybody in the league will tell you like when you're going down on a two on one, you know, the team and your plan. It's in its shape. Obviously, you know, I know he's good with the stick and so I'm trying to find a way to, you know, beat his triangle or something, but I don't think we're, you know, we're not keeping score. Okay, but there's definitely competition. Like, I know he wants to stop us and we obviously want to get through him, but I mean, it's just, that's just healthy. I mean, when you play other teams, who's like him? I was kind of, we were kind of talking about this the other day. I think he's a hybrid of McCarr and Hughes. I think, you know, I think those guys have played so many games, you know, maybe, you know, they know just, they've just played so much in the NHL. They've had so many more reps and everything. Maybe, you know, they do things maybe a little bit differently, but I think in terms of the way Hughes moves on the blue line and can really use deception with his, you know, fakes and whatnot. Shave has that. And then the skating, you know, McCarr, where he can just kind of dominate the entire race with his legs. I think, I think Shave's like a hybrid of both of them. But I think, I mean, I know he's right here, but I think what goes underrated is that, is that he's so strong defensively, like in games, his reads and his feet allow him to defend certain ways that other D-men can't, closing gaps and squeezing guys on the walls. And I think an important part of like being an elite defenseman is can you close on a guy, but can you grab the puck and then make the next heads up play or skate the puck out of the zone and all the elite defensemen do that. I know as soon as, you know, he grabs the puck in the D zone, like that thing's getting out and I can take off and I can trust him. So it's just, that's what the elite D-men do. Does Patrick ever say something like that to you? Like he gets the puck, you blow the zone. Is that like one of the- No, it's not really talked about, to be honest. It's more just, listen, I mean, you know who has the puck, you know, in the games and that's not a slight to anybody. It's just a matter of some guys just have that ability to- I feel like when I like say I get a puck or whatever and then I see like Barzy, so say like whenever they go for a change and then I see Barzy come on, we love to do a play where like we go up together and we're just like, you know, playing with it and then we get to make moves and like we both use our speed to go and like we like two on one guys and stuff like that to try to make a play out of it. Cause I know he's always getting in and going with speed and then I love to jump in and sometimes Pooly has to stay back or whatever to try to- Yeah, that's what he has to be responsible for. So then it's nice cause I mean, whenever we gain speed, we always look to go up, you know, with each other. Obviously like, you know, we look to do that with everyone, but especially like if Barzy is coming on and I see him gaining speed than I know, then I'm going to probably jump in with him. Sometimes during a shift, the puck touches a guy's stick, it touches Shave Stick or, you know, Macar or whoever and you just know it's time to play, you know, like now we have the puck and there's no worry about turning over or that puck's getting out of the zone. So, and he's like that. So he touches the puck. I know where we can get up the ice and play off. That's not, you know. All right. So who reminds, in the angel reminds you of Matt? Yeah, I mean, I could. So what I, what I like to- I'm interested to hear this by the way. I know, I know. Cause I was like- I don't know where he's going to go. I was thinking about it. Um, I want to say a couple of guys, like what I like about, it's like McKinnon in a way is that like McKinnon likes to attack guys and like put them like flat footed and like as a defenseman, when Barzy's coming down the wall and he's using his like deception, but also coming at you full speed and like using his hands, it's tough to defend. Um, and I like, like McKinnon loves to do that and loves to like come at a guy and challenge him. And as a defenseman, that's so hard to play against. And even when we're in practices and stuff like that, like playing against Barzy, you think you got him sometimes and then he just makes a move or uses a head fake and then he's gone the other way. I mean, it's always fun. I mean, the other practice, he came down full speed at me. He had like a quick like stick hand or whatever on me. Got a shot. I'm like, like, come on. That's the first rep of the drill. Like chill, chill. Let me get used to it. There's a back gap. There's a back gap. I might have cheated the rep a little bit. Um, yeah. Like I mean, a lot of guys obviously, I want to say McKinnon too, because McKinnon's obviously pretty fast too. And he's very like motivated, very determined and you know, seeing Barzy in practice every day, obviously, you know, me coming to my first year, I knew Barzy was on the team just from, um, you know, watching Maloba grow up. I know he's not too much older, but you got a little bit of an age gap volume. There's an age gap. Um, but no, like just obviously seeing what he's done for this team and things like that and just seeing what kind of player he was. He's, uh, he's very motivated and he's always looking to learn and he's taught me a lot too. That's pretty good comparison. I mean, that, that is a great comparison. I was, I was, I said it before I was a little worried because they're, you know, it's 10 years, you know, we'll bring up players and stuff all the time to him and Cal Richie, these younger guys. And they're like, who, who's that? You know, I grew up watching. I was like, who's your guy? Clodgeroo, Dadsuke, you know, guys that were playing when I was 10, Shave was, you know, I don't know. I was good too. I was like 12. Shave was two. So who'd you say you mauled me after like when you were like, I was, I was like Clodgeroo and Dadsuke, those two guys. Yeah. You would see that. No, I, no, I've seen the highlights and stuff. That's crazy. I don't know. Sid, I said was like, if I was coming up and like, there's someone I like, you know, I just like loved and stuff like that would be said probably. Has he said anything to you on the ice? No, I was actually hoping in my first game that he was going to be like, hey, Shave, like welcome to the league or something, but no, I didn't get ice in there. I had a moment like that too with Sid. Actually, he's such a competitor. We were lining up for a face off and we had just come back from the All-Star game. And I thought, you know, like, you know, we're buddies, right? We're buddies, right? I don't know when I was, but I went to line up, you know, on the opening draw with him and kind of tried to make some eye contact. And he was so laser focused on the ref's hand, there was nothing said. You know, he was just right back to business, but that's why he's so great. There's a couple times actually. So don't take it. No, I know. He's down then. But there's like one time like, like David, like we're at like a drive and there's like a couple minutes left and there's like a one goal came and like he looked down and he was just like, all right, you know, like, how you doing whatever? Like just a quick, how you doing? And then like he gets the puck and he's dancing. And I'm like, it's funny because I think he gave me like a how you doing because he's about to dance me or something like that, you know, like give me a heads up or something. But yeah, I think that was probably the one guy that was just like, you know, how you doing? Is there one guy in your rookie year who acknowledged you and you know, My rookie year or early? Yeah. I don't remember really like, maybe, maybe Claude Giroux. I think when I was, I think, uh, who was it? He was on the Canucks. Well, the guy on the Canucks asked for my stick after the game, which I thought was like early on was like such a compliment. It was like one of my first games in the league. It wasn't, it wasn't Besser, was it? Cause you know, it was a older guy. Oh, okay. I was a bow. Was he on the head? Um, that would be even funny. Oh, it was both. I have to go through the line and figure it out. Okay. Um, who had, and I'm going to ask you this first, more impressive rookie season. You or Matthew? I think, I think what Shave's doing at 18 is a little different than I did at 20. Um, yeah, he's breaking all sorts of records and it's different as a D-man. I think impact wise. I don't know. I mean, let's, let's not slight, uh, my rookie. You gotta let me go first. I had an okay year. I'd say Barzy. It was, it was probably pretty similar in terms of, uh, like, you know, the flash. Like I feel like every game, like he's, I watch him every game. It reminds me like every putt, every putt he touches. He wants to show everybody in the building that, you know, how, how good he is. And I remember I had that feeling too when I was at age. Um, so I, I don't know. I mean, I'm obviously going to say his. I'm going to say Barzy. I mean, obviously, I, I mean, I wasn't really like, how old were you? That was, that was eight years ago. He was, Shave didn't even watch my rookie. He was just being nice. He was 10 years old. He showed me a clip of like, one day. Don't tell him I was showing you clips. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, listen. He was flying down and like, he was going to make a movie and got fully blown up by his cell. Like, I'm going to the bench and his hair is like this and his eyes are, and he's like, what the hell is that? I showed him my welcome to the NHL moment. Is that BXN? That was the BXN hit. Yeah. But I do say that that kind of propelled my season. That kind of woke me up and I was like, I gotta figure it out. You know, I can't, this is embarrassing. I hate to air this part of the interview because it's going to go right to his head. I can tell you that right now. Oh, I know. No, I give him, I give him compliments. Like, props for that. And it was, that woke me up. And I feel like the next game I got my first point in the NHL, after that game I was so distraught after the game. I'm like, I am an embarrassment out here. You know, I'm getting robbed. If I was there, I would have gotten them. I got nothing to show for. I'm getting killed out here. And then, yeah. So it kind of kind of jumped things, jumpstarted things. One of the biggest compliments I got about you was that there's a lot of young players in the NHL who are successful or they're high picks and they come in and they say, you know, this is the way we do things or where I came from, we do things. And the Islanders, players, everybody around us said, you never walked in like that. It's more like, how do we do things or can you explain to me why you want things done like that? Like, did someone tell you that or was that always you? No, I was never like that. I mean, this is, you know, like Barzy's been here for a while. Barzy's a vet. Like, all these guys are vets and they, I was lucky enough for them to take me out of their wing and show me the ropes and like just show me, you know, everything that's going on here. I mean, I'm 18 and, you know, I'm learning from all the guys here. I'm learning from Barzy. I'm learning from everyone. So for me, I like to just, you know, see what's going on. I want to keep, you know, the same environment we got going. I try to, I mean, I'm a kid. I'm bringing in the kid kind of vibes, I guess. I think that's the one thing that I may be doing. But besides that, I mean, it's a great organization. They got great stuff going on already. So it's fun to just be a part of it. And I mean, everything works out. It's worked out to be this organization and just be with these guys. So they've just took me out of their wing and showed me the ropes. What was your first impression? I remember I saw you in the gym. You was doing curls. You was doing arm curls. I was doing, it was mostly in mid-August. I was still looking for the beach ball. First impression, I mean, just, you know, I mean, I obviously watched Draft and everything and, you know, I'm a bit of, I'm a junkie. I was watching some of his highlights in Eerie and I mean, it's just the skating that stands on. No, it's true. Only 17 games, not much. Yeah, but we saw him at World Juniors too. I thought he was the best player at World Juniors when I watched. And then I was here in the summer for rookie camp and he's just miles ahead of everybody. And I actually honestly got his first shift in rookie camp. I watched him and I was like, it's going to be so fun to play this kid because he would give the puck up and then beat his guy and then walk back. And I'm like, you know, those kind of players, guys that want the puck back, that excites me because I can, I feel like with my game, I drag guys to him and to me and kind of bring two or three guys and then, you know, dish off and he always wants the puck. So I noticed that right away in rookie camp. And what is the most 18 year old thing that Matthew does? It's a good one, I should. 18 year old thing. I'd say the lack of knowledge with like some of the older players that we mentioned, guys that are like very relevant, you know. That's right. His, I mean, you should hear this guy in the plane when he's playing Mario Kart. It's just, it's just a little stuff. He's like, hey, shave, keep it down. Because I'll be yelling and stuff. So Barz is like, hey, shave, keep it down a little bit. Do you play yourself or is there no, there's just a little group we got going on. It's me, Bo Seuss, Maisie has it, but he gives his control up. So, you know, another guy would pop it and then Lee. Yeah. So that's kind of the group we are going on. We got Seuss is really good at racing. He kills us in racing. I thought he was going to be great. Because he's young and I watched him for the first game they played. This guy spends three and a half minutes running into walls, getting bombed. He's just, it was actually absurd. Yeah. Just see what was going on in this thing. Barz, he came over and he's like, let's see this start. And like, you go to like time it right. So then you get a boost and then I go and then it like, it like bounce back because like I didn't get a good start. He's all right. He's laughing. He's like, oh my God. He's making the walls the entire time. It's tough though. I had to walk away. It's tough. Okay. Final question for both of you. There's still business to be done here, but just watching from outside, it looks like it's really fun to be an Islander right now. Just what has this season been like for both of you? And we'll start with you. Yeah. Honestly, for me, you know, before the draft and everything, I didn't know much about, you know, the Islanders or, you know, the Island and stuff like that. Obviously, I know about Toronto because, you know, Toronto is not too far and it's, you know, Canadian and stuff like that. But you know, when I got drafted here, I was a dream come true and it was such an honor to be a part of this organization. And I mean, yeah, we got some great going on here, you know, picking up new guys and things like that, adding to the team. And it's just fun. Like when you're winning, when the fans are coming to games and they're cheering you on and they're behind you and things like that, it's always so fun to be a part of. And especially us. I mean, we, I mean, we'll be down a game with, you know, a couple of goals and then we'll come right back and every line will be rolling. Everyone will be vocal in the room. Everyone's happy and things like that. So I think it, you know, just helps when everyone's coming to the ring, you know, ready to learn and ready to get better, but also with, you know, just a great mentality and just always having a smile on their face. Yeah, I think that's well said. I think I actually said today in an interview, I think you don't know, you think you're in a good locker room until you're in a good locker room. And I think, you know, we just have a great mix of competitors and good guys, characters. We got good mix of young guys that kind of, you know, spark energy in the group. And Darcy added some nice personalities like Heinemann's awesome guy, Braden Shen, Andre Platt, like some of these guys we brought in or just kind of have, you know, filled little holes. And I really feel like the, we got a nice picture in our locker room right now. I think, you know, just we're playing an up tempo style too. And I think some of the games we've won in the fashion that we won, like example, St. Louis, the other night we're down three, just when we turn around, you know, we, we went a big one in overtime, just, just some emphatic wins, obviously bringing Shafen, like just some of the goals he scored at home, the crowds, you know, have been awesome this year. I think it's just a combo of a lot of things, but I would say the biggest thing is like about the locker room, just we have a good locker room this year. Thanks very much, boys. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Thanks, great stuff. Thank you. Okay, thanks once again to Matthew and Matthew and the Islanders for making that conversation happen. Just some programming notes for you. The last few days of the regular season, games that can be viewed nationally on the network on Tuesday night. Another massive game for the Kings, it's the Vancouver Canucks final home game of their campaign. It can be seen on Sportsnet Pacific and Sportsnet 360 coast to coast, 10 Eastern, 7 o'clock Pacific time. Our final Scotiabank Wednesday night hockey telecast of the year goes from the nation's capital. It's one final battle of Ontario of the season, the Leafs and the Sends. That could be the game that ultimately decides whether or not the Senators finish in wild card one or wild card two. Hockey Central on the air at 7 Eastern for Pacific time, puck drop a little after 730 ET from the Canadian Tire Center. We mentioned early on in the news block that Friday's pod, it's going to be a big one. So Park aside some time for that. We'll go through the 16 teams that are not playoff bound and what the future holds for them and preview the eight first round series as the Stanley Cup playoffs get underway on Saturday. Until then, have yourselves a great week and we will talk to you again on Friday.