Panty Sniffing Wife Killer - Greeley, Colorado

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New customers only, restrictions and TNCs apply. 18 Plus, Begumbleware.org This week, in Greeley, Colorado, a woman disappears leaving detectives to suspect her soon to be ex-husband, but just can't find the evidence causing the case to go cold only for all questions to be answered, including finding a body in the wildest place ever. Welcome to Small Town Murt. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy edition of Small Town Murder. And this is one of these where... This is a case where I'm like, well, I don't know how we didn't do this years ago, because it's so crazy. I don't know how we've passed over it, but we have. And we're going to get to it this week. Before we do, head over to shutupandgivememerder.com. 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In addition to all that bonus material, you also get everything we put out, all of our shows, add free with your Patreon as well. Add free. Add free. You get a shout out at the end of the show too. There's that, that said, disclaimer time. Everybody. It's a comedy show that we do here. We're comedians. There's obviously going to be jokes. The show is called Small Town Murder, so there's obviously going to be murder. You go, how do those two things go together? Well, how do you do that? Well, really easily. This is what we do here. We don't make fun of the victims or the victims family. Why James? Because we're assholes. But... But we're not scumbags. See, that works. It's real easy to do that. Plenty of other stuff to make fun of. We'll make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Maybe a police force that screws up a case and lets a murderer kill more people. We make fun of murderers. What's wrong with that? That's what I'm saying. So I think it's going to be good here if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together. Maybe you won't like it, but I think maybe you will. There you go. So, you know, that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. All right. What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shout. Jimmy, we are going to Colorado this week. It's a great place. Back to Colorado. Jimmy loves Colorado. I love Colorado. It's beautiful. Love Denver. Cool place. That's great. Really Colorado is where we're going, which Jimmy was very disturbed by the fact that we're going to Greeley this week. He was like, oh, no. Jimmy's from Colorado. So he's allowed to have whatever opinions he wants about these towns. He's not going to challenge my, you know, my classification of Albany probably. No, he could take this. This is a north central Colorado. Yeah, it's right by Denver. Yeah, it's about. It's not. It's a wise out. About an hour 15 to Denver. So, you know, still closer than the airport. So that's not. That's helpful. About equal distance. I think Salt Lake City is about the same distance as the Denver airport. Yeah. Two hours and 25 minutes to Breckenridge, Colorado, our last Colorado episode episode 616, the orange sock murders, which was so, oh yeah. One of the craziest cases ever. That's a great town. Oh, that was wild. This is in Weld County, area code 970 or 748, depending on the way you are. So we got a couple of them. A little bit of history of this town. This town began as basically like this like religious temperance farming community. What? That's how this town started. It started as the Union Colony of Colorado, which was found. In 1869 by a guy named Nathan C. Meeker, who was an agricultural reporter for the New York Tribune newspaper. And as an experimental utopian farming community, that's what they set this up as. What? Quote based on temperance, religion, agriculture, education, and family values. Basically, the Amish is what they are. There's a couple of things in there that are the catalyst for that. I got a feeling it's not. It's not the base and religion are the two. It's not the crop. No. Agriculture, it smells like a bastard in the winter here. Exactly. So Horace Greeley was the Tribune's editor. Oh. That's how this happened. He had visited Colorado during the gold rush in 1859. And he had popularized the phrase, go west, young man, which is a very popular one. That was from him from the New York Tribune. So anyway, they got a bunch of people together to try to find a suitable site. They got a bunch of land, 12,000 acres. Yeah. It was nobody wanted it. Yeah. At the time. No. It was known as the island Grove Ranch and included a bunch of a lot of this area and everything like that. They got about 500 people came to take up residency here. They changed it to Greeley in order of Horace Greeley, since he was the one that popularized the whole movement. In 1943, Greeley had two prisoner of war camps during World War II. No shit. One was for Germans and one was for Italians. So we had that there. A vote to allow the sale of alcohol barely passed in 1969, finally bringing alcohol to this town before that. The temperate shit stayed on for 100 years. So that said some reviews of this town because I know Jimmy's been there, but I've never been here. I do love that they had content, not that word. I do love that they had costs. What was that prisoner of war camps? That's it. That's the one for me. Yeah. For both of us. That's nice. Yeah. Real nice. A vote to allow the sale of alcohol. So that's hilarious though. I can't believe it took them to 1969. Anyway. Oh, I can't. That's I'm still hung up on that. Reviews of this town. Here's five stars. I was born in Greeley, Colorado and have lived here since. I've had such good experiences in Greeley. It's a very small town, but I think a small town can be good depending on someone's needs or wants. I have loved living in this small, but very friendly town. Okay. And that's the thing. If you need to be remote, and you want to be, what is that? Just isolated? Then yeah, this is great. Well, and the other thing is, nowadays the population of it is not, say it's a very small town. The population. It's grown so much since Denver's gotten so expensive and it's beautiful. Right. Yeah. It's grown a lot in the last like 25 years. When our murder happened, it was still in the small town thing. Right now it's got a lot of people. Here's three stars, not very safe on the east side of town, but I like that it has a small town feel even for a place a bit bigger. See, that's kind of how a lot of the reviews are like that. He feels like a small town still, even though the population's growing. Colorado Springs is like that too. It feels small town, but it's fucking so congested. Yeah, that's that's tough. One star, it is really scary. There are a lot of hard drugs in the area, despite a town being in the middle of nowhere. Right. Middle of nowhere, that's where the hard drugs are. Go to West Virginia, it's all the middle of nowhere, full of drugs. That's what we're talking about. A boy digging coal out of the side of a mountain. Yes. So that happens. Here's one star. I wish I didn't live by an apartment complex. They steal and are very disruptive. Okay. The apartment people. Yeah. Here's one star. I live by a park and every night there are cars parked there all night and I believe there are drug sales happening. Well, there's also Dick sucking happening. There's a lot of things happening there that you don't know about here. There's a lot of commerce that is untouched. Yes. That's, yeah. A lot of under the radar commerce going on there. One star, Greely's an interesting town. On the west side, it's beautiful with parks and shopping. Anything on the east side of 35th Avenue is where a lot of crime happens. Bikes and a camera stolen from my yard and broad daylight. The police don't do much besides drive around not actually enforcing any laws. Dangerous people walking around constantly, not a safe city. Okay. There we go. People are joking off in the church parking lot. Yeah, they do that in the park at night in the park cars. People right now, 107,014. Wow, it's really booming. Yeah, there's about half of that one, this murder half a year. That's just in the last 30 years. Oh, blown up really bad. And you see like every decade, it was like a small town in the 70s. Now it's getting bigger. A few more men than women, 50.2 percent men, which is actually odd for a town with a lot of people in it. Media and age here, 31.7. There is a college here. Oh, yes. Was it Northern Colorado University or something? So it's an off brand one like that. Yeah, it's a, it's a not a division one football school put that way. Family here, it's about 48 percent married. So slightly below the national average, more people are single with children, which happens when you have younger people too. Yeah, that'll happen. In this town, 55 percent white, 2 percent black, 1.3 percent Asian, 39.4 percent Hispanic religion, only 30 percent religious here. Normally it's 50, 50. I don't know, maybe if you're up in the mountains, if you're up in the sky already, you're like, you know what? Here it is. I don't know. Great. Flat shit up there. It is. Okay, the drops off pretty quick then. 14.1 percent is Catholic. That's the most of any religion here. As we know, Catholics are the baptists of the Rocky Mountain regions of the Rocky Mountain plains. The median household income here is $60,601 a year, which is below the national average by about $9,000. Cost of living though is a lot. It's expensive here. Because this is a, you can commute to Denver from here and Denver is outrageously expensive. My Christ is wild expensive. You wouldn't think that it is, but wow, it is pricey there. So, I don't know what did it, but it's just not okay anymore. I don't know. A hundred is average for cost of living here. It's 113 and the housing is the highest median home cost here, $420,600 median. Wow. It's rough if 60,000 is the household income. So, if we've convinced you, dammit, you need to come here. You don't like the mountains. You want to be in the flatlands. We have for you, but still closer to Denver than the airport. We have for you the Greeley, Colorado Real Estate Report. Your average two bedroom rental here, well above the national average at $1,430 a month. Wow. It's about $200 more than the national average. House number one is a two bedroom one bath 742 square foot trailer. It's a, I'll show it to you. It's a trailer with nice siding and a porch. Oh, it's a very clean looking, it's nice. It's nice at like the 70s. Yeah, it's very clean. It's about as good as you can make a trailer look. You know what I mean? It's kind of the outside. I don't know if you know what I mean. Yeah. Nice porch and all that kind of thing. I've got a lot going on otherwise in this thing. $58,000 for that. Okay. That's kind of here. I don't know about the lot. Probably just on the trailer. Yeah, that's, there's no way you own the lot too. No, no way. Here is a three bedroom one bath, I think one and a half bath. 1,024 square foot house. So not very big. Not a big lot. Built in 1926, as you can see. It's like looks like an old kind of minor shack that they maybe know a nice house. Nice hardwood inside. It's done fine. This house, not a big lot or anything like that. $265,000 for that. They just had a price kind of $5,000. So tooth going to keep going. $2,000 on a trailer. And then a four bedroom, three and a half bath, $3,537 square foot house on 30 acres. Oh, I got to see this. Including a giant private lake. That's yours. My Christ. That's awesome. Oh, that's a big ass lake. That's your private lake. A frame house, too, is it that one? Yeah, it's this one here up front. Yeah. I don't know if you have to share the lake. It says private lake. I'm not sure, but 30 acres is a lot of land anywhere. It's a nice house built in 1983. It's only got some old homesteader house. I mean, they $2,850,000. Oh, lake. That lake, I don't know. That's not work that I don't think. It's not a big price. It's not a big price. It's not a big price. It's not a big price. That's a small lake. Oh, yeah. No, you could take a rowboat around in circles. I'll call it a lake first. That's not a lake. Yeah, you can call anything a lake technically, but that's a pond. I think on Golden Pond, the water was bigger than that. Oh, by far. Yeah, no, I hadn't refunded. I couldn't see across it when I mean that. That's a bullshit call this a lake. Things to do here, the Greeley Stampede. Yeah, this is much like Cowboys' shit. They do in like Calgary, and there's a lot of Western areas, the locales that do this stampede type shit. Some kind of rodeo, mixed with live stock events and shit like that. We have the Longhorn Kickoff Drive, the PRCA X-Stream Bulls. You know, with the X-Stream Bulls. Extreme rodeo Cowboys, James. This is great. That's a big event, actually. We got the rodeo on Thursday night, another rodeo on Saturday, on Sunday, another rodeo, also Cowboy Church, which seems to be big in Colorado. Whenever we talk about Colorado, that comes up. Cowboy Church and Cowboy Fowl at Treve. Oh, Jesus. Monday, June 29th, we have Boots and Bling, whatever event that is. That sounds terrible. That's a dance, babe. Another at that four o'clock in the afternoon, what a wonderful dance. That's when they start that shit. Well, they have to get it over by seven, because guess what's happened in its seven? Squish another rodeo. Time to get some, yeah, I was like, I'm bulls and blood. Then the next day, yet another rodeo, followed by a whiskey and cigar tasting, then another rodeo, then the, then Saturday, July 4th, we have American bullfighting, a parade and fireworks, followed by a demolition derby. Now there's also music for all the weekend dates of this show. I'll save the best for last. We have Warren Zeders. Uh-huh. I don't know. You know what that is? Yeah, you know, okay. All right. Yeah, Warren Zeders is. All right. Justin Moore with Clay Walker, which nope. That just sounds like, are terrible. That sounds like AI plug-in names. Clay Walker. All right. I want to be a country name. Clay Walker is an older country musician, but the other one fucking blows. Scott McCreery. Yeah. He won American Idol, Parker McCallum and Mackenzie Carpenter. Yeah. And then of course, ludicrous will be there. Obviously. I swear to God. ludicrous is a good living. He is everywhere. He is everywhere. Every goddamn county fair, we talk about it's, he's always there. Yeah. You cannot escape ludicrous. No matter where you are, ludicrous will be in your town. At some point, it doesn't matter where you are. You're going, oh, I live in no Alaska. ludicrous will be there. Don't worry about it. He's coming. There's got to be like, there's got to be like five ludicrouses, like five ludicry that go around the nation because he, there's no way one man is doing every county fair in the country, right? Imagine Scott and Ludicry. It opens for ludicrous. It's wild shit. And now ludicrous, this is ludicrous. Okay. Crime rate is down. We're interested in property crime just above average, maybe about 15% above average. They may sound like it was like, you know, you know, you know, warrants. Yeah, crazy. And then violent crime, murder, rape robbery and of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of Crime, slightly below average. Oh, so I mean, yeah, this seems like a couple of people made a real big deal about it, but I mean, statistically it's fine. Crime wise, maybe like little pockets are shitty, little neighborhoods. These people live in those. Scott and McCreary's tiniest is showing up here. Everything's fine. Yeah. Even if it's not fine now, it will be because ludicrous will be here. He'll take care of everything for you. Don't worry. That feels like something Paul Revere would have said. Yeah. Ludicrous is coming. Quick. Put up a tent in the stage. Ludicrous is coming. Okay. That's $20. That said, let's talk about some murder because wow, is this a, this is one of the craziest fucking stories. This is so nuts. I was in, I was sold on it after the couple of things I read and then it was like, then it got weirder. That's crazy. This is awesome. This keeps getting weirder. Let's talk about a woman first here, a young lady, Christina Marie Torneye, T-O-R, or T-O-U-R-N-A-I, Torneye. She goes by Tina. Oh, Christina does here. She's born March 17, 1972. And she's born in Indiana. She is the second of nine children. Oh. Yeah, nine children. Her father's name is Michael. Her mother's name is Mary Ellen. She's born here and grows up here with no kids, huh? Indiana's where the, oh, she was born, but they moved to Colorado at some point here. Okay. And Michael's a police officer for a while. I don't know if that's his entire career, but he did that for years at some point here. I like Michael and Mary Ellen. They seem like decent people. Now Tina graduated Windsor High School and she's like, did everything. She's impressive. She let her to track volleyball, basketball. That's three sports you let her in. That's pretty impressive. Also was in the knowledge ball. So yeah, that's a pretty smart test, right? And she played trumpet in the band and sang in the choir as well. Yeah. I don't know. When do you sleep when you have all that shit to do? That seems like there's no downtime. She's watching Jeopardy constantly. Yeah. We're watching Jeopardy while playing a trumpet. That's hard to do. In our sleep. You can't hear, yeah, hard to hear the answers, you know? She ended up going to Ames Community College, AI and ASL caps. It's got to stand for something. She was going there for a nursing degree. She decides that's what she wants to get into. She's very much wants to help people also. She's very, nobody ever has a bad word to say about Tina. She's that kind of lady where she wants. The Ames stands for Medical I imagine. Possibly, but it's a community college. And two colleges. Oh, so it's probably the eggs. Pre-regs? Yeah, I don't know. The S could stand for like the end of Hockey Sack. We have no idea at a community college. I don't know. So there she meets a young man. All right. Okay, she meets a young man named John Sandivall. John, here's same age as her. They're both in college and both going around. Now, John as a cousin named Jesse, who's kind of like his best friend grew up with him. Not kind of. He is his best friend. He's the closest person to him all the time. They're cousins. They grew up together. And Jesse says, you know, they, I guess the way they met, John noticed Tina in the gym one day at school and said, I like her. And so Jesse and I'm sorry, John went over to October and they started talking. Later on, he said that when, when John introduced Tina to his cousin Jesse, Jesse said he couldn't believe how shy and how pretty she was. She was like a crazy, pretty and crazy shy, which normally isn't by that. You might see that in like the ninth grade. Yeah. But usually by the time of girls in college, you know, she's gotten all that attention. She realized. Oh, it's the rack that let me or whatever my family, whatever, I'm a matter of track with to me. And usually that helps them come out of their shell anyway as far as I mean, sometimes they feel like kind of that's, that's all, it's all a little cage of itself. But sometimes it puts them further in the shell. But yeah, a lot of times it gives them confidence anyway. It's not a shy, you know what I mean? She said, or Jesse said, quote, I thought this woman is going to change John's life. I even thought that when they were dating, they were so into each other. He was always talking about her. Everything was about her. That was the happiest I'd ever seen, John. Yeah. So I mean, that's just they fell in love. Yeah, girl for fuck. Yeah, they fall in love. It's pretty early. This is, um, it's one of those things that's like it's, you know, that's great. But please don't get married and do things like that because you're too young. It's just right. It's, it's rough. But sometimes it works out. But Jesse said he started to see a much different John based on going out with Tina. He said that he was to his, he go to who's cleaning up his act. He was trying to like impress her and not be a jerk off. Yeah. He'd been a jerk off up to that point kind of. And he's, oh no, I got to be upstanding. And this is this young lady. So shit. She's, you know, she's pretty, I can't fuck up. You know, so, um, he, this is what Jesse said. I'd seen that good in him. I wanted that for him to get a degree, to get a good job, to be married and have kids and live a normal lifestyle and get out of that old way of life. Which don't worry. We'll talk plenty about. I really, oh, his old way is quite the way. I really honestly thought that things were going to change. Now this is the thing though. Tina knows nothing of any old way of anything. She just met a nice, she just sees the new John. She just sees a nice guy. She met in college. That's it. So I mean, you kind of take that at face value. College is one of those things that kind of wipes you clean. When you, it's a palette, you get away from home. Yeah. Yeah. It's like whatever you did before doesn't matter. It's almost impressive if you fucked up because now you're in college. You know what I mean? Getting it together. It's crazy like that. So their, their relationship grows closer. And in December of 1991, so she's 19 at this point. Yeah. She's, I guess, at least very private, but decided she wanted to introduce John to her parents because they were planning on getting married on January 1st, 1992. Already. So she's like, in December, she's like, I guess I better introduce them to the family. Oh boy, which is a lot. So they met for coffee at a burger king. With the parents? That's how they're going to all have this meeting for over 89 cent coffee, over Styrofoam cup 89 cent coffee, and the smell of those potato fucking ovals that they make. In the air, whatever the hell is our, they're past round things. Yeah. They're basically a squash tater tot. Yeah, it's a stomped on tater tot. It's so good. So good. I'm not going to talk about whatever's on the bottom of those Reeboks is delicious. It's goddamn good. So he, Mike, by the way, the dad was a cop for two years. That's how long he says, this is Mike, her dad said he came across well. That's something I look back in my police training. You pick up things, but he came across fine. He was in college. He was intelligent, personable. Everything looked good. Yep. So that's it. And also when you have nine kids, how much, how much focus can you put on one of them's boyfriend? You know, nine kids. You just got to be happy that they're happy. I don't know. And she's the second oldest. So that means there are, and she's only, you know, 19. So that means there are seven more that aren't even adults yet that you have to concentrate on. So you go, you make sure he's not a serial killer like joling with blood dripping from his fangs and you go, great. Checked off. Enjoy yourself. There you go. Signed off on it. So you're running out of closet space. The good news? You don't need to stop shopping. You just need to start selling with the real real. The real real is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale, whether it's that mini bag that can't even fit your phone or those boots you never fully broke in. The real real handles everything from photography and copywriting to shipping and pricing. So you can just sit back, get paid, and make room for things that actually feel like you. And with 10,000 plus new arrivals every single day from top designers like Prada, Saline, Louis Vuitton and Louis Vé, all for up to 90% off retail. You're bound to find something perfectly on brand to fill that extra closet space with. Plus, right now, you can get an extra $100 to shop when you sell for the first time. Make room for what feels like you. Go to the realreal.com to start selling and get your extra $100 to keep shopping at the realreal.com. That's the realreal.com Terms Apply. And mom, too, Mary Ellen said that he seemed like a great guy. Yeah. By the way, a lot of this is from a book that I'll give you the name and title of at the end of the author and all that because they did a great job. The book quote, this fellow was more like a very slow talking nice guy who could make conversation with anybody who seemed genuinely interested in whoever he was talking to. He didn't come across like someone who was trying to sell you something. He was an easygoing guy. No strong opinions about anything. He just kind of agreed with you. Which can either be a go along to get a long guy or someone who's full of shit. You don't know. Yeah. Who knows? I'm not agreeable. I tend to think either they're dull or lying. One of the two, right? Are you dull or full of shit? Which one? Or just on first meeting, perhaps he just doesn't want to tip his hand too far because they're, yeah. But either way, I guess that's lying. That's exactly. But that's first impressions, too. If you're a 20 year old kid and you're sitting down with your, you're going to get married less than a month and so it's a lot of pressure. It's not like you're just, this is some girlfriend. You're going to have to deal with these people. You're not going to sit down and start ranting and raving about the Supreme Court over Burger King coffee. You know what I mean? You're going to keep it light probably. Talk about the hard goes and be cool. You know, on first meeting, you're expressing your intention is to marry. So yeah, I mean, it's pretty fucking serious. Exactly. You just start. You just say it sucks that the Broncos lost all those super balls lately, right? Yeah, it does. That's all you say. Yeah, I'm out of John O'Hill too. Yeah, man. I feel like I'm just too super balls in the future. We need a better game plan than that. Dan Reeves, I'll tell you what. Yeah. So nice. So they're planning to marry. No, apparently before the wedding, this is December. We're holiday season leading up to this New Year's wedding. The torneys, the Michael and Mary Ellen here got some phone calls from a woman claiming to be John's first wife. Oh, which the kids like 20 years old. I'm not ready. What? He's got such a past. It's crazy. And not only does he have a past, but past has come to call like little on the phone calling these in-laws. So they had to do some research to find. She's aware. Yeah. This is Renee Delayo and Mike, who is a teen his dad, said she sounded like a raving maniac screaming telling us don't let Tina do it. I couldn't remember the conversation, but I just put her off as some kind of nut. She said, don't let Tina marry John. Now we know why she's the ex is Renee nuts or is Renee onto something we don't know. So the parents told Tina of the calls and Tina blew them off. Mom Mary Ellen said she said Renee was calling her to she said she thought Renee was jealous and wanted John back. So he's such a prize. She can't possibly let him out of her talons apparently this this other woman. So January 1st 1992. No, I don't know if this was like a midnight wedding after New Year's Eve or what because I saw some reports that said December 31st. So maybe they had a party and then at midnight they got married. I'm not sure. But they get married either way. Tina's got a white gown, all that kind of shit, lace stuff, all sorts of lace sleeves and all that kind of thing here. Tina's five foot six and in all the heels and stuff. They're about the same size at the right. The altar there. She's a blonde and she pulled up her hair and did all that. John's got a black tuxedo with a yellow rose and his cousin Jesse is his best man. There you go. Now, after the ceremony, John addresses everybody and he said we had such little time to plan the wedding. We threw everything together at the last minute, but I felt the ceremony went well. Didn't you and Tina was smiling? Everybody's happy. He then said, I've got the best woman a man could ever ask for. Oh, so Tina ends up going to the University of Northern Colorado to further pursue her nursing degree. So she does all of that. She started, she was talking about being a doctor actually. Really? Yeah, that's how this started. Her mom said, even in college, one of her favorite classes was organic chemistry and almost nobody says that. I know we don't. Yeah. I don't even know what that is. So she tells you how stupid we are. She helped so many students in her track with the organic chemistry. Besides working on the weekends, she was always taking time in her study groups to tutor her friends. Nice. She said, she's a really nice person. That's what everybody said. She ends up getting her BS in nursing from the University of Northern Colorado and she starts working as a licensed practical nurse on the weekends at the Northern Colorado Medical Center. Right. And she's been educated in the top 5% of her class as well. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty goddamn good. That's in 1995. She's going to end up graduating. Very impressive. Which is great. And that also helps that she's slightly a little bit older than the average student a couple of years. I think that's an advantage academically. And especially if you're married, you're not going out partying. Right. Yeah. I think that's the thing. You're going to go home. You're going to go to work. And be sure to do other kids probably aren't like eating a sit down dinner with it. You know what I mean? So it's just a different thing. During her practicum at the hospital, an instructor who evaluated her said she was an exceptional nursing student the best he had ever supervised. Huh. That's it. Everybody loves Tina. His family too. John's family loves her. The sand of all family. They love her. They think she's great. See, John's cousin and best friend said everyone in our family loved Tina. Even the progression of meeting someone to family get together as like Easter and picnics, we'd have them over for Broncos games, different reasons. Everyone in our family just adored her. Right. So there you go. She ends up having a job at the oncology department of the of Northern Colorado's medical center. Yeah. Yeah. She goes right into that. That's rough, man. That's rough. That's off to her. That is a kid. Someone's got to do that job. That's a hard job taxing, you know, real taxing. Someone's got to do it and I anybody who can handle that. Wow. Incredible. Honestly, it's tough. Watching one person die is in she's doing that all day long. That's why God damn it. You have to have something in you to be it's still be able to be like, I don't know, have compassion for a match. Have that. Yeah, you're dying yet. I think you would put up a wall at some point and be like, I don't care. They all die. They all die. But I have some compassion still is pretty impressive. Now, 1993, Mary Ellen gets a call from her daughter Tina. All right. Tina is ballin. She's crying and she says that John quote, johns and jail. Oh, no. She cries. Um, he'd been picked up on a parole violation. Oh, parole, not even probation, parole violation. Which means you've been in prison at least. Yes, he's already had a wife and a parole. Yeah, I can't wait to hear about John's past. Oh, man, it's a lot of john must be fascinating. Oh, man, old john current john future john. They're all johns of johns of party. Wow, john for someone with such a plain name, he could have more shit going on. It's crazy. So Mary Ellen said she was crying and we came and went to the jail with her. It was a parole hearing. We sat with her in the waiting room outside the courtroom and she said john's been on parole because he stole from a lady he worked with in California with his first wife. She said he did it because they were hungry. Oh, he was hungry and needed food. So he said, yeah, there's were two starving people and they stole money for food and that's why he's on parole. Okay. Which sounds, you know, oh, poor guy, you know, you can understand that. Look everybody would, you know, food is food need to have food. You know, it's not like basic. Yeah, he wasn't stealing for like, what is this? The 80s VCRs or something. I think it was expensive in the 80s. So we find out though that that's not what it is at all. John has quite the past, quite the past and let's find out about him up to this point and then where he'll go from there. Apparently, basically his parents just let him run wild. What do you mean? There's no boundaries. There's no, you got in trouble. You're getting punished. There's no don't do that. It's just kind of free range, feral, let your kids run around and be menaceous to everybody. And john's cousin Jesse said his dad was super smart and he was trying to raise them in the era where you didn't hit kids. This is in the 70s and 80s they're telling you not to hit your kids anymore. Punishment like you shouldn't. Yeah, like we do now. And I guess John and John as an older brother named Ray, they were just allowed to do whatever they wanted. There's a, there's a huge fucking canyon between not hitting kids and not having any boundaries of kids. Yeah, no, no consequences versus not hitting. They're two different totally different. Yeah, you don't have to beat the shit out of your kids. If you have to beat the shit out of your kids, you're probably not communicating well. You're a very frustrated human being. Yeah, you're not good at parenting if you have to beat the shit out of a child. So they also said that they had that had a huge profound consequence. This is from Jesse. He never wanted to lay a hand on his boys and he never spank them. They knew they could get away with a lot. He's saying it like if they would only beat their kids, everything would have been fine. John, his mother Mary Lou had 13 brothers and sisters. My God. 13, which whole outs are what's he attracted to? So funny how he's attracted to a girl from a family of nine brothers and sisters, which is so you don't do that on purpose. No, but your dad's an alcoholic. Girls go find an alcoholic. Your mom's from a big family. Your mom's a narcissist or whatever you go find it. It's crazy. So Mary Lou, they often fought over money, I guess as adults, the brothers, all 14 of them in a giant battle royal. I guess it would be the only way you could fight over money with that many people. Also his mom was a nurse. Okay. I mean, a nurse from a big family until Arias and medical lady here. Yep. She later sold cosmetics. I don't know if that was Avan probably back in the day or even Amway. I'm not sure. Mary Kay could have been any. They said she was a terrible housekeeper. Nobody was a good housekeeper in the family. And they said that basically this Jesse said that you had to carve a path through the rubble in their house, basically. Oh, a hoarder too. Just shit everywhere. Yeah. Wow. The family often had garage sales not to clear shit out, but to make money. To actually get a few bucks because they were short. That's the job. That's the job. This is from Jesse, a quote from cousin Jesse. Almost all the negative things that came out of John came from his mom's side. My mom said she had seen two of her brothers fighting over a nickel. The brothers and sisters, his aunts and uncles were always at each other's throats for money. They were money centered, not only greedy, but really hateful toward each other. Oh, which if you have, if there's 14 kids, they're either going to be incredibly close or they're going to murder each other. One of them though. You can't. There's no in between. Only how the parents are structured. Now, John's father's name was Ephraim. Ephraim Sandevol. And he was an educated guy. He got a scholarship to college in the 1950s. Yeah. So he's a smart guy. He wanted to become an attorney, but never did. Instead he turned into a biker. Yeah. So yeah, an early, and this is early incarnation of bikers too. This isn't when it was like cool. This is when it was dirty. And guys just like to ride bikes and do meth. I mean, you know, so he said he was a private investigator in Las Vegas for a while too, but we don't have any confirmation of that. Okay. He also had a wild side for his motorcycles. He loved to drink jack jack Daniels and do drugs as well. So there's that. And they said that they they like to read dad's easy writer magazines. Yeah. And they once used the recipe that they found in there to make weed cookies. They said too. That was a fascinating time to be alive when everybody you knew what everybody was into just by looking at their coffee day. Oh, yeah. Go in their bathroom. You know, their bathroom. You'll see it. Yeah. That's when like everything came with a roach clip. Yeah. I had dirt wheels and auto trader from eight months ago. In my bathroom. It's like for sure. These still here. Sure. I like it. I didn't put them there. They were my parents. Well, yeah, you didn't go out by them. I liked when you'd go to one of your friends divorced father's house and he'd have like, he'd have like like a wee in the bathroom and like club and like these weird, titty magazines. A lot of people don't know about that. People just know hustler. No, no, no. Okay, boy, people don't know club. Club is the most disgusting. Club is filthy. I know because we were my own class. Seventh grade. We really went through my friends. We had shit loads of them. I don't know. Every time I went to the bathroom in his bathroom, it was a new one. So he'd subscribed. Oh, yeah. And I found it. We had this guy's fucking dad had stacks of them. Yeah. When there'd be two foot high stacks of club and we and hustler. I was like, holy shit. That was like the good stuff because that those ones showed penetration. Yes, absurd. He liked it filthy. That was the same house where I ate like 150 vitamin C tablets. They were candy. And then his dad got busted for selling coke. So his house got rated one night club. Yeah. You knew it just by his magazines. Yeah. If you could tell who's a dirt bag by their back. Yeah. Totally. Back. Now you can't tell. It's all on your phone. Who shit? I mean, that tells you that man is beating off in the constantly. There's so many magazines that he had to be reading them. He couldn't have just been using them for masturbation. There was so many he had to be taking in the articles. I swear to God. He was. Because he had all of them. So this is the kind of environment he's growing up in. Which is obviously great for structured. It's a good, dangerous for a child. So John's parents get divorced when he's seven. And that's kind of tough. And he and his older brother Ray and their younger brother Andy were kind of on their own at that point to run a muck as they see fit from seven on, which is tough. He got into some shit. This is Jesse. His cousin said John was very mischievous. He unplugged the fridge at my mom's house once without telling anyone and all the food spoiled. Ha. Okay. Really strengthen them. That'll earn you a beaten. Like if you're a poor fat, if I did that, my family, I would have gotten the shit kicked out of me. Yeah. Period. That's it. There was upwards $90 worth of shit in there. I would have been out there about it. Oh my God. Even the pickles have gone bad. It would have been awful. And they're in vinegar. So yeah, he said they figured it. They figured it had to have been one of the kids and found out it was him. I don't know how they found out, but he eventually messed up. Okay. So he said they were always into something. John and his brother Ray, especially John broke his arm when he and his brother had the idea where they would jump off the roof of their house and float down with umbrellas. Ha la Mary Poppins. Who hasn't done that? And it's funny because raise the older brother, it's never the older brother with the broken arm. Hey, jump off the house and see if this works. The older one telling the younger one to do that. I see that with my nephews. The older one gets the younger one to do stupid shit. Yeah, just to see if we'll do it. He said that he and Ray would do this all the time because they were freaking bored. That's what Jesse said. He said they would also rig booby traps for friends and people would actually get hurt. These weren't like fun things. We're a bucket of water. We'll fall on you. This was like, you know, home alone pranks. Yeah. We've got to put on some cars and put your foot through a nail. It's like put your nail through a foot. So the person people in the head with neon tubes. It's yeah, crazy shit. So Jesse was a victim of this at one point. The John and his brother Ray set up a faulty bicycle ramp under a big rock on a bicycle without a seat. Okay. And Jesse said when they set up the ramp, they set it up on a round rock hoping I'd fall and fucking myself up. It was a bad stunt going bad already. When I hit it and went over, I hit my head on the dirt. The bike landed on my back. I was seriously screwed up. Wow. That's not really a prank. No. That's horrifying. I mean, at least I'm not a jackass. That's a prank. They're the original jackass these idiots. Yeah. No seed is not good. No, they're the original jackass. That's all it is. If they film that, they'd be famous right now. I mean, we all were. I mean, we all did this. All, you know, I mean, the 80s was just all jackass all the time. We had jarts that we just threw it each other. Yeah. We wrote giant metal spears. And they're like, ah, take that motherfucker. And if you didn't move, you were stabbed with a giant dart. That's how it worked. Everybody had a dart board in their house. Oh, the darts didn't come around till the night. No. No. And that's inside. The ones outside, those things weighed like six pounds and they'd go right in the middle of the decade. So the boys also got into weed. They got young Jesse into some weed as well. They would take shit from their dad. Their dad, I guess, was in some kind of band and would hang out playing in the band on the front porch like Dwight Yoke him and sling blade. Yeah. We're having a show concert tonight. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Getting the band back together here. By junior high, they were smoking weed and doing all that kind of shit. John started selling weed in high school as well. Jesse said they were always scheming to get rich. I remember going over to their house and they were making, they were going to make half catnip, half marijuana and sell bags to get rich catnip. Catnip. Can you smoke catnip? I don't know. I at least use a regano or something that is non, that's for human consumption. Put something in there. It's for human consumption. That's not even meant for cats to eat, right? No, they just play with it back. Yeah, they put it in back. I mean, I know they sell it to you. The plants just sprinkle it on the floor. My cousin got me a plant and she liked it. Yeah, they come in like a little catnip plants you can get. So Jesse was into wrestling since the third grade. I don't mean off the top rope. I mean, on the mat school wrestling. And John got mad because John's dad started calling Jesse champ. John got jealous. So Jesse said he had a problem with that so much so that he started wrestling himself, but he wouldn't make it through the school year. In high school, he went through half the year and quit. He wasn't a finisher. He was more of a quitter, the easy buck, a more of a mediate gratification type of person, wrestling is a tough sport. Yeah, it is. You got to stay with it. And if you're not that kind of person, you're not going to run around in your sweatpants in 105 degree, whether to lose six pounds, if you, unless you're really into it. And that describes the difference between people is if you're an immediate gratification type person, your life always turns to shit. Yeah. Because all the good shit takes a while to get to and to build to and to dry for and immediate gratification just isn't realistic. So about 1982, they said that is when he started, John started hanging out with a criminal basically here because he's a few years older than Tina. And he said, Jesse called him a straight up criminal named Michael who taught John the techniques of breaking into homes. Yeah, he said, Michael always, always had a lot of money like this and a lot of weed like this about the size of a softball. He made his vest. And he said, he'd break into houses. He claimed to have a sixth sense, which is a lot of where John started getting his weird mojo mind. Oh boy. Yeah. Jesse said, Michael could pick a house off a block and find the one with the most cash or jewelry or drugs available for him to steal. He said, if there was any criminal influence, that was it. He said, I knew he had a ton of other friends, probably just like that. But when I came on the weekends and the few people I did meet, I remember Michael and thinking, geez, man, this guy, he looks like he's everybody's hero, but he smells like something's rotten in Denmark. So kind of a any Haskell type to here. Yeah. So his first contact with police being his junior year of high school, 1982. So 16, 17 at this point. Yeah. So he's about seven years older than Tina. And this is when he was caught smoking weed with friends in a parking lot, which. I don't know if I'm right. Yes. Dude, the amount of times I did that and didn't get caught is remarkable. So the amount of times I caught boxing. Yeah. Yeah. I can't be upset with anybody for that. So that's what happened. They said that everybody knew about John, basically, that he was kind of the area fuck up. He had, you know, he had a lot. He would be a burglar or a trespasser, as we'll talk about. A small crimes, a lot of little things and members of his family worked in various capacities at the local courts. And that helped him out too a little bit. Yeah. So he didn't really get in trouble a lot when he should have. And he knew a lot about the justice system and how to go around some shit. He knew to take plea bargains and plead to minor crimes just to get him over with. Oh boy. You knew we'd get better deals that way. They said it. Apparently he annoyed the cops. The cops were annoyed by his existence. And he would even taught them. That's the other thing. And John's mother and his family would back them up claiming that the police were out to get him. Oh boy. That's the other thing. So he would go in there. Yeah. And parent on the kid's side, that's dangerous. It is. Well, I mean, it's, it's, you have to be if it's true if they really are fucking with him for no reason. But for sure, there's reasons that they're fucking with him and we'll talk about it's because he's a criminal. He's a burglar. Yes. They said, nope. And also the family would put up, they wouldn't cooperate with the police at all to help out at all. And everything like that. The cops would try to find him and they'd say, nope, he moved out of state. He's not here. He's a child. He's a child. Where'd he go? Where'd he go? Or nope, he moved to Denver where he's not home or I don't know where he is. Or they just wouldn't help at all. His family did not think that this was John's fault at all. He thought the police were picking on him. John is part, is part, I believe, I don't know what, he's part Latino, part Native American. That's how he puts himself. That's how he says he is. So I don't know, he says that's why the cops are after him. Oh, it's a racial thing. Yes. Yes. But the problem is it doesn't, the actual acts that he does kind of warrant his police attention. At one point police responded to a burglary in which a woman woke up and a man was standing above her bed. And he said, be quiet. I got a knife and I'll cut you. The woman screamed and the man fled. An officer arrived and chased the man and caught him and it's John. Oh boy. Standing over a woman's bed with a knife. That is terrifying. So the problem is the woman, because it was dark, couldn't identify him. She saw a body with a knife. That's it. She couldn't identify him. Even though the cops chased him and tackled him and caught him and knew who he was, he said that's not where I was coming from. I was running from somewhere else. I was running because you were there. And there's no way to charge him if she can't identify him. So he gets away with shit like that. You know, he also did things alone always, which was smart because there's nobody to tell on you if they caught, which is always smart. He also would never talk about his criminal activities either. Wouldn't tell his friends though. I broke into some lady's house last night, stood over a bed with a knife, which is smart. That's also scary that a teenager already figured that out that you need to be that kind of a criminal. Yeah, it's interesting. One person said, John was a guy who always worked at night. If you look back to his crimes about ones he was suspected of, except for a couple of stockings, it was at night. One is a night crawler type of guy. Part of that is concealment. It's easier to hide in the dark. He's a total absolute coward could be Richard Ramirez. Yeah. That's like absolutely. And a coward. He's afraid. The woman screamed and he ran away. Right. He's a coward. He's a coward. The police would set up stings. They would follow him at night, but they could never get him. He was smart. He had a sense for when cops were watching him. A child is out smarting them. He just had a sense. He's got a real criminal sixth sense to him that most people don't have. One of the cops here, this was a detective named Keith Olson. He said there were a couple of times I was involved where we'd have three or four guys on foot or in cars late at night following him because he'd always be seen walking around. Even though he had a vehicle, he takes off walking in neighborhoods at night. Smart. Yeah. Don't get to tag. You're also suspicious as fuck. How many people with a car go walking around neighborhoods at night? Yeah. I see what you're saying, but on site though, you just go neighbor taking a walk. You know what I mean? But if you see it, I'll park all up. It's so much more identifiable. Totally, but it's also super suspicious for people to be walking around at night. That's just people don't generally walk around by themselves at night. Yeah. Unless they're like on a mission going somewhere, you just got to wandering. Or it's a neighborhood where you just walk a lot. Really is not that. But this is like also like 11 o'clock at night. Yeah, that's bad. There's not normal. Yeah. So July 83, Michael here, his friend Michael broke into a home in Greeley and John came to help him, apparently. Police noted that a man came home to find someone reaching through his bedroom window taking a $5 bill from a dresser. Oh. What a criminal mastermind that is. He said you said a $5 bill within arms reach of the window. That's pretty and someone walked in a window. I'm going to reach in and grab that five spot. As all of this is crazy. But there's a five. I'm taking it. I'm taking it. So this man said he chased him out of the house and hit him with a shovel three times before the man took off, which God damn. I would have liked to have heard that clung clung. He's a holler. Wow, leaving, I guess the man took off and left a motorcycle in the driveway. The motorcycles registered to Michael. That's not great. Later that night, John called the police to report that he borrowed his friend's motorcycle that night and it was stolen earlier. Oh, diabolical. Michael came out and said, fuck, I left my motorcycle there. They're going to catch me. He said, not so fast. I got this. I got this. I'm a genius. When the police arrived to take the report, Michael was there noticeably limping as well, beaten with a shovel. John's mother told the cops that she had taken both boys to Milliken, a small town about 10 miles south of Greeley that night. So that she's trying to give him an elephant. She's an asshole. Yeah. Yeah, Michael though insisted he hadn't gone to Milliken with them because he's a moron. Michael's not as good at this as lying to the cops. I've never been there. So the police arrested Michael and he had to serve 90 days in jail. Now $5 through a window, that's one thing, but he's got another obsession here, John. And it's peeping. He likes, he likes to peep, which is bad. That leads to worse things. Became a habit early, Jesse said. He said, John in high school asked Jesse to check out women taking showers at the University of Northern Colorado in a dorm where the showers were on the ground floor. Now it's porquies we've turned into. What is happening? Literally that's like from an 80s teen movie. Yeah, it's literally from a movie. I mean, that's a crime from fucking years beat. Yes, such a stupid thing to do. Yes. And in like 1983, that was considered and I'm using giant air quotes. Good, clean fun. Good, good. That was considered, boys being boys trying to look at some titties. Obviously, we know better now, but that's, you know, that's what it was considered at the time, but it's different to travel somewhere to do it. It would be a lot. I feel like there are times that I've got like, you just get an urge to see titties. Thank God for the internet. You can just look up titties and be like satisfied. Thank you. You're going to a strip club or your friends dad's stack of club magazines. Any of those things, there's lots of ways to satiate the need to see tits. We are men. Once in a while, a thought pops in our brain that says, I need to see tits. It just has to see. I don't care what guy it is. You're the nicest guy. You're past area. He wants every we all want to see tits. It just we can't help it. It's a biological imperative. So the thing is to not do it in a legal fashion. Jesus Christ. I don't know why. I want to know why, but I got nothing. There would be no people on earth if we didn't want to see tits. That's a good point. There would be none. It's the reason that keeps happening. The internet's probably saved countless victims to people. I guess. You could have said, this is the eighties. He could have went and rented a porn from a fucking video store. He could have bought a hustler. You know what I mean? He could have gone into any liquor store, looked at the tits and not bought the mag and left it. Not even. Yeah, you don't even have to look. You don't even have to buy it. So this is a power thing. This is a weird, this is a different thing that this people, because I've never had the desire to go peeping. You know what I mean? I've never had the desire to see an unknowing person me seeing their tits. That's crazy. Half the fun is that they want to show you their tits. That's all the fun. That's all the fun. Well, half the fun is that. The other half is seeing the tits. That's the best part of it. So Jesse said, I was like, no, I don't want to go there. What if you get caught? So several months later, John asked him again, Jesse was a senior in high school at the time. John had dropped out of high school after his junior year, but got his GED. Jesse said, I didn't think it was serious then talking about the peeping. And so I thought it was something he stumbled upon. I don't know. I didn't think a lot of it. When you're in high school, people say a lot of crazy shit. You say a lot of stupid things. I think he was actually doing it though. Yeah, you say a lot of people tell stories about I've done all this great. It's all this like posturing to look tougher or look older or look whatever it is. You know what I mean? Sometimes the year somebody say, I'm going to buy a car this weekend. Then they show up that on the bus on Monday or that hot girl. They had that just tore it affair with in Canada when their parents took them to Vancouver on vacation. There's always that bullshit. You know what I mean? Yeah. I remember one of my friends had one of those girls and he the name that they give the girls always the funniest thing too. Samantha or Tabitha? No, no, no. He named her Chastity. And we're like, what? We're like, listen, we know you made this chick up. Why would you call her Chastity then? That's cool. He's like, I didn't make her up. Yes, you did. Yeah. The one girl you bang's a chick named Chastity, you met on vacation. Give me a break, dude. In South Carolina. I don't think so. Because they're always the opposite of their names. Yeah. Clearly. I think that's what he was going for. Yeah. Yeah, he wasn't a dumb guy. So Jesse would later say that Jesse or later John would later confess to Jesse that he had in his evening prowls gone into open University of Northern Colorado house parties where he'd find girls passed out on beds in the basements and what. And he would take off their clothes, climb into bed with them and eventually would rape these passed out girls as well. Jesse said that he's pretty sure John raped at least two UNC co-eds. Oh, god damn it. That's this is the escalation. This is terror. Well, if I could see it, why can't I touch it? Well, if I could touch it, why can't this is horrifying? And they'll hate it if I do it. So if they're unaware, that's what I do it. Yeah, which is pathetic. So crazy. But Jesse said John's relationships, he had relationships with women during this time too with young ladies and they were, they said it was all consuming one to the next. There was no casual. It was, this is the person I love her a lot then on to the next one. This is the person. Yeah. His first girlfriend, a girl named Jenny, moved in with him when they lived in his mother's basement like it was their own apartment down there. Jesse said that he saw a new side of John when this young lady moved in in 1981, by the way, when they were 16. This is Lord. This is the house where they allow their 16 year olds, 16 year old girl friend to move into the basement. That's this house. And what house did she come from that they're like, go ahead and move in with him? Exactly. A worse place than this, which sounds like shit. Yeah. Where she comes from, it's probably worse. Yeah. After she moved in, he was super, super jealous wanting to make sure that she was never there alone. They were always fighting yelling like screaming and yelling or they were having sex. Good Lord. That's hot and cold. Yep. Hot and cold, which is a lot of times when you're young, you think that's what it's supposed to be. It's passion. Yeah. That's because we have passion. Yeah. So she broke up with him in 82. But that doesn't mean you can get away from John. Oh, because we've loved hard and fucked harder. I've seen what you do. And now I can't picture you doing that with somebody else. That and John just doesn't really care what other people are looking for or want. More about what he's a peep. Well, Jennifer told a cop later on, he was a freak. He was almost physically abusive. He had a psychotic tendency. He was disorganized, extremely paranoid. He thought people were following him all the time. Well, they were actually. That's also feels like an up-to-earth. It really does. The fact is that he was right about people following him all the time. The cops were following him all the time. But she said that he became physically violent with her and threatened to kill her when she decided to leave him. That's not almost abusive. That's abusive. And that's at 16, he figured it out. Good Lord. So to get away from him, she moved to Pueblo to finish her senior high school. She had to move to a terrible, awful little dusty shithole town to get away from his man. I just went further. She went further. She went further. She stepped his chest like my, like my grandmother, if you told her a baby was sick. She got my yo, Mucky got some. My, my mother put baby on my yo, and then they're praying to Italian, Pueblo. God damn it. And he said, she said that wasn't far enough though. She said he stalked me all the way down there. She has to go to retone New Mexico. It gets worse. She moved to Wyoming. Oh. She went the other direction. And a new girl had moved into her apartment. Oh, no. That girl called for her good for her, but bad for the new girl. That woman called the police on April 13, 1983 to report a man trying to get in. The cops just called John. They just were like, John, why were you there? They know what he's doing. Like it's, it's to the point where they don't even have to investigate. They just know who it is. He said, yeah, I did go over there. They know what he said. He'd gone over to retrieve the keys to the car that he and Jenny owned and to retrieve a watch of his. He said he didn't know Jenny had left. So they didn't charge him with anything. They were like, well, I guess that's a mistake. Seems like a, you know, it happens. April, April 25, 1983, the cops contact John again, who admitted, yes, I went to Jennifer's apartment the month before, but that was only because she accused me of breaking into her home. Like, what? So I decided to actually make a right if she wanted to be right. He told police that he denied this, he denied this to her and they started to argue. So he told the cops that he decided to leave and his new car was running in the alley. He said Jenny was running after him attacking him and he said he left when the neighbors come out. All right. Now district attorney declines to prosecute this case at all. A few months before Jenny had returned to Greeley, John was working at a Taco Bell in Greeley. Oh, yeah. Oh boy. He had just turned 18 and in the week leading up to this employees would call police complaining about a man they believed to be John making several harassing phone calls, including telling his female manager on one of the calls, I'm going to kill you. That's not a threat. I'm going to kill you. Oh boy. And they found out it was John and he got fired. So he is not good. No, this and he's 18 and he's exhibiting behavior that if it doesn't stop, yeah, if it doesn't stop, this is going to get so bad. Oh, God. If he doesn't go to, if he doesn't have a hardcore wall, I mean, a consequence of something bad. Something is correct. And a lot of therapy and everything else. This is not going to go well. He needs a prison sentence with, you know, psychological intervention and everything else. He's a mess. So he does some more peeping. He'd spy on women as they from outside their houses, just watch them as they did shit. He would set up chairs outside of windows to watch. He had ladders. He would set up to just watch people walk around their houses. He's rigging the town so that he can see titties. Titties or sometimes just watching just watch them cook. Yeah, they're nightly routines. Just he likes that they don't know that he's there. That's so wild. Fucking creep. He in October 1983, he was contacted as a suspicious person in the Jocelyn's parking lot at the Grille Mall. A month later in the holiday in parking lot, police found John in a car. Well, as his car and the windows were all fogged up. So they're like, oh, there's a couple of teenagers getting on in here and they go up. It's just John by himself with his pants down. Oh, boy. He's masturbating so vigorously. He's steamed up the car. The same as the same as two people fucking in it. That's a lot. He friction burned the fuck. They said, what happened? And he said, I spilled something on my pants. Well, we figured that. Yeah. We're gonna tell you that. That's when he told them. He told the officers and the officers knew of several reports of indecent exposures in that parking lot at the time. But that's what he told them when he took off his jacket, his pants had been pulled to his knees and his pants were dry. They said, there's nothing on your pants. What are you talking about? And he said, oh, well, I'm waiting for a friend. My pants must have just fell down to my knees while I was in a car sitting there. A couple of weeks later, they contacted the police, contact Sandevol, John again in the parking lot of the Grille National Bank after an employee who lived in an apartment building nearby reported seeing a man dressed in dark clothing walking around and going to the building's second floor where there had been a report of a burglary. In February, 84, police again found him in the holiday inn in a report listed as an indecent exposure. Okay. Talk to him again. In April, he was contacted again at the Grille National Bank in a report of a suspicious activity by a female employee. So he has his kind of spots that he goes to the holiday in the bank. Old John has, how did he get here? I don't get it. I don't understand what the deal just one dude told him how to do things and he did it and liked it. Well, he never had a boundary. He didn't ever want it. His dad, let's face it, is a fucking scumbag. His dad's a scumbag, fucking biker who leaves easy writer magazines around for his kids to fucking. Yeah, he's that guy. So yeah, this is what happens. You know, my friend with the Coke dad, he's just does like fucking drywalling. You know, that's the, that's the best case scenario in that. Yeah, I mean, at least he's not in the holiday in book. That's what I mean. That's best case scenario. He's got a couple of kids and, you know, eeks by on a, yeah, that's unbelievable. Breathe in so heavy. He fogged his own windows. That's unbelievable. Then they looked at him as a suspect in the disappearance of a young lady named Janelle Matthews, who's reported missing on December 26, 1984, and her body was never found. Where did she go missing from? From this area, but John would prove it be, John was proven to be working at a, a California restaurant at the time. So he was actually cleared for that one. Now 1985 comes around. She doesn't even, Tina doesn't meet him for another like five, six years. Think about that. She has no idea. This is the guy who's wonderful. Come, come meet my cop dad at the Burger King. Yeah. No idea. So by 85, he's 20 years old, and he was accused of sitting outside of businesses, masturbating in the open while women walk past his guard. Now it's not even titties. It's just a woman. No, it's just. That doesn't know I'm jerking off at her. This is jerking off at somebody. Yeah, that's so aggressive. This is at them, which is weird. I've never jerked off at anything. No. Two things, yes, but not at things. I close my own eyes and shut the lights off. I don't even want to see it. It's a difference between laughing with an at somebody. You know what I mean? I kicked the dog out of the room. I don't want anybody seeing this. This is horrifying. You don't want to know this. A blue El Camino, he was often reported scene driving. Also, that's where he's sitting in his blue El Camino back in it. Police. I don't know Jimmy. Why do I buy one of those? The trash individual is always dropping in the old Camino. Well, it was kind of like the cliche. Like, yeah, look at this fucking dirt bag. It was Malt and his El Camino. That was always the thing. So police never pursued these cases for some reason, of whacking it in the parking lot. I guess because how do you prove he was whacking it at some point? You know, you have to catch him whacking it really. So in October of 86, he was the chief suspect in a burglary here. A woman reported, this is wild, that John came to her house with her house keys, claiming that he had chased a burglar from her home, and he dropped these keys as he fled. Oh, but he never reported this to the police, however. He just happened to have her keys. The woman's roommate happened to work with John at a local liquor store. They said, you don't find that weird, John? The cops ask him and he said, yeah, I did think it was ironic that she lived in the same house in which I saw the burglar. Yeah, that was strange. He said, I was just walking to my girlfriend's house when I noticed this burglar fleeing this woman's house with, quote, stuff in his pockets. Oh, yeah, he said, I yelled at him and I chased him. I almost caught him too, but I slipped and fell. I fell. You know, he dropped these keys though. They said, well, easy. Let's take a lie detector test and we'll know that this, you know, and he said, I can't do that. That's the love and beyond. Two days later, he came to the woman's doorstep with a present in his hand. He brought her a present. He brought her a necklace. Oh, and he said that he felt bad for her and wanted to cheer her up. What? What the fuck? So I felt bad for her because she was burgled. So I brought her a necklace. And I couldn't catch the guy get all of her stuff back. And I slipped and fell. I could have got her shit, but I think in her keys. Goddamn Reeboks. Yeah, fucking slippery, man. I need a better fucking soul on these. Yeah, I need something with some grip. Some grip. The cops said, yeah, he's probably the burglar and made up this whole thing to try to actually burgle this woman's house and then have sex with her too. He's trying to get in on her good side. So they tried to locate the girlfriend that he mentioned that he was going to see based off of vague description he gave of where she lived. Doesn't have address, of course. I just know the house is green and it's sorted down this way. Yeah. They never found anyone that fit that description, obviously. I think that's what it says, yeah. No. And they also found there was no one by the name John had given listed in the phone book and really either. So, you know, doesn't exist is the answer to that. April 1987, the police, they've all, they suspected him of sex related crimes for a long time now. But they don't have any proofs so they don't know what they really kind of do. They don't really have much to do. On April 10th, 1987, John is at his first day of work with a local trash company. He's 22. The company's name is BFI. And so maybe this is it. Maybe he said, damn it, this is a career and we have garbage man and I'm gonna make good money being a garbage man. And that's a huge. That's a huge waste management company BFI. There you go. So maybe that's what you do. So as a BFI trash truck went across reservoir road in West Greeley, West Greeley, a woman jogged by and was attacked. But whoa. So the woman told police that a man had been hiding in the bushes and jumped out as she passed. This is on his first day of work. While the while a truck drove by? No, no, the truck was somewhere in the area. Okay, all right. He parked the truck and went and fucking hid in the bushes. Wow. And he was watching here. He jumped out as she passed, quote, driving his hands up her shorts and quote, digging his fingers into her vaginal and anal cavities. Oh, Jesus. How is that time? Just a, wow, that's aggressive. He tried to pull her down when she was able to get away, which is horrifying. She noticed that she had some sort of, that he had some sort of injury to his face. And then moments later, she saw a trash truck driving away. All right. The woman looked through 368 photographs at the police station, positively identifying John twice. Oh, wow. So they called John in for an interview. And while awaiting an officer, I guess he had tape on the bridge of his nose, an injury, and he took it off and hid it behind his chair, under his chair, the tape. He stuck it to his chair. And he told police that that was his first day at work and he was wearing a fatigue jacket, which he'd gotten in the military, even though he's never been in the military. But he told the cops that. Then he said, do you want to know how my nose got messed up? Sure. Why not? Give us what you got. That's fucking great. He asked, this is several times he asked to tell the story of his nose during this interview. Oh. He said, well, I was at my dad's house and Augusta Wind came up and slammed the door in my face. So there you go. Okay. That's what happened. The police don't believe him. But John's coworker provided an alibi for him, stating that he was with John that first morning of work all throughout the day, never left his site the whole day, which obviously is physically impossible, and kind of ridiculous. The district attorney declined to prosecute based on that alibi though. Really? Yep. John never came back for day two of the job, by the way. Is that right? Never came back. Didn't know what was done, all done. I'll trash it out. He cited medical problems and quote abuse by the police. He just couldn't bring himself to be a fan. Yeah. If I show up to a job and then the very first day they accused me of rape, what are they going to choose tomorrow? What's tomorrow? Yeah. What's tomorrow? A serial murder? What are you accusing me of? What's day two child, child rape? Does that it? Then from where's it go from there? Yeah. It's not long from frame of murder. I'm not coming back. So next up, late 80s, he has a girlfriend. He met while he was working at Long John Silvers. Nice. He's got a real career trajectory here. He's not had a good job yet. I mean, BFI is pretty close to a career, but that's deep. You could have made a career out of that with a GED and you could have been there for 20 years, but instead he's going to bounce from long John Silvers, slinging them hush fuffies. Oh, man. Slinging some fucking fried clams, clam strip time. She moved in with him this woman, known as a pretty redhead, is how Jesse described her. Sure. Only to break up with him shortly after she moved in. Okay. So what a John do. He took it super well and just tried to find another relationship. You know, he talked to his friends for a little while. They gave him the guidance that you need as a person to go, yeah, you know what? It's going to be okay. That's not what happened at all. As a matter of fact, you're better than that, don't worry. Yeah. I don't know. He ended up sneaking into her parents' house and killing her dog. That's what he did. What? Yeah, which is insane would be a great way to put that. How long did they date? Terrific. I mean, long enough to move in together, but when you're a long John Silvers employee, things move fast. So that could have been on the first week. It's a fast style. A fast lifestyle you got there. Oh my god. It's like being in a band, you know? It's the same kind of shit. Builder dog. Then brag that he left the dog's collar on their back door knob. What the fuck, man? A police report documented the event on October 11, 1987, but they got nowhere on the case. And it doesn't end up being prosecuted. Jesse, the cousin said, when he told me that shit, I was like, this guy's fucking crazy. It took this to get you to realize it. After he killed that girl's dog, I think that dude went on a rampage. He told me of at least three or four times when he busted into a house and the cops and the cops coming or a guy chased him with a bat or someone calling the cops and he was up a tree or climbing a bush and they couldn't find him. Well, Jesse, this is your Frankenstein. You did this. Well, no, he's a younger cousin. He didn't do this. But isn't he the one that showed him how to break into shit? No. Oh, that was like an Eric. Yeah. Michael, he is friend. Michael, right. This is his younger cousin. Geez. He's like two years younger than him. So he's actually the one guiding Jesse, you know, John's the one. He's looking up to John's. This is too much now. Yeah, you're a fucking lunatic. Jesse said, quote, he started calling himself the shadow because he'd gotten away from the cops multiple times. You dickhead. You're giving yourself a super hero name. Yeah. He said, he said the grilly police were bumbling, Barney fucking idiots. He's getting crazier in his own mind from calling himself that. I mean, who the fuck makes up a name for themselves, John? That's the, yeah, you don't get to nickname yourself. You just don't. By this time, he was dangerous, obviously. Jesse said, he said, the only contact he ever had with John from this point is only when he needed weed. His John's old weed too on the side. John had a grow operation in his house where he also collect, also kept his massive collection of quote, Nordic-like swords. Oh boy, he's got that too. He's a sword guy. He's a, what else, lizards? What other thing are it? What other weirdo thing do you do? You know, he said, it sounds like his doors are divided with those hanging beads. You know, all of his rooms are no doors, just those things. That's what it feels like. He said, quote, physically, this is Jesse. Physically, I wouldn't want to mess with him. Mentally, I didn't even want to go there with the guy because he was crafty and intelligent and he might be thinking you're plotting on him. If you say anything, he'd take it wrong and you might be the next guy on his list. He's a terrifying man. Yeah, but you might be the first guy on his list because he hasn't hurt anybody other than that dog. Women. But yeah, women, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's never done. Accelerating fast. He's got swords and he breaks into houses and he kills dogs, he's capable of anything. If you can kill a dog, you're capable of just about anything. Not in like an old yellow way, where you live on a farm and they have rabies. I'm talking, like I'm gonna kill this fucking dog. Yeah, it's a, yeah. So in August, 1988, John was accused of setting a man shed on fire then pointing a gun in his face. Okay, so he's escalating to arson and animal cruelty and assault with the weak deadly weapon. If the man charged, I mean, he killed him. And he accused the man of stealing from him. Okay, the victim requested John not be prosecuted because he was scared of the skin and wanted to, he just wanted to, didn't want to deal with it anymore. A month later, John's involved in a bar fight. He was prosecuted for felony menacing for cutting the victim's hand in the fight. John told the cops he was jumped in the bar and was able to disarm the victim of a broken pool queue before fleeing. He said he threw the queue out his van window. John did ask for an attorney once he saw police with the pool queue at the police station. Oh, we have it right here still, but this is your weapon. Having refused to go to the hospital after complaining of chest pains. This is what he does. He's 23. I'm having a big heart attack. John insisted after seeing the pool queue that he'd be taken to the hospital. Now, I got to go to the hospital. He complained that he was suddenly too weak and needed an ambulance too. Like he couldn't even walk to the car to go to the hospital. An officer took John to the hospital in the back of a patrol car and said he watched as John forced himself to throw up. Okay. Once at the hospital, John pretended to pass out when the officers tried to help him up. He screamed. He screamed, quote, please, please, don't let him hit me anymore to the passing security guard. The cops, they're like security guards. Like those are cops. They're beating me. I got shit to do with this. He then pretended to be unconscious in the hospital and an attending physician said he had nothing more than a bruise. They helped him back into the police car. He spit vomit at one of them and smiled. What? And one of the cops. And he eventually pleaded guilty to third degree assault. Yeah, that's assault for sure. No, no, not for that for the pool queue. Oh, they didn't charge him for that on the police officer? I guess not. Or they dropped it. He probably, he pled guilty. So I'm sure that was part of the deal. November, 1988. He reported being the victim of a burglary. Okay. Police respond to East Side Lickers where John is working at around 8 a.m. to find John face down on the floor with his hands tied behind his back and his face all bloody. And $4,249 missing. Uh oh. Yeah. The police immediately suspected that John faked this. Robbed himself. Yeah. He told the cops that a black man hit him with a club and he doesn't remember anything. Yeah. He just pulled a good fellow. He walked in. Yeah. He believed this. He said he regained consciousness at one point was able to reach the phone to dial 911 and then he just passed out again. Yeah. Couldn't take it. His boss though agreed with the cops and said, this was staged. There's a lot of unanswered questions. Very many inconsistencies in John's story. And John was not following protocol and handling the store money. He wasn't dropping like he should have been in safe. All that kind of shit. John was the day manager at the liquor store. What? Okay. And then he said, I'm not going to be a manager to rob them a fraud brand. Not only that, but how terrible a job is this that this guy's in charge of something. Right. Like what kind of what's the employee pool for a liquor store owner to hire from? It's got to be pathetic if this is your manager. If that's the guy that you promoted to the best shift and the best position. That's what I mean. It's crazy. He said that he never arrived as early as he did that day. The boss said, I'm gonna arrive. What the fuck is that? It's so stupid. The boss said the only way to get cash into the register without damaging it was to know what button to push. So anyway, the cops tried to call John at his home several times afterwards to follow up, but he just had disappeared. Right. He said, John quit the liquor store shortly after that event, one of the cops said, $4,000 is enough. Why? So where did he go? Where? California. Is that right? Yeah. I got four grand. I'm moving to California. It's a brand new day. He's going. Well, that stretches like a week and a half there. Even in 89. Yeah. Two months first and last. And good God. He's 24 and maybe staying at that shitty motel where there's gunshots on sunset that we did for your stupid opinions. Yeah. He went to California for work and, you know, to run from the cops essentially after a whole lot of shit here, but they end up, by the way, later on, they're going to find a lot of stuff from when he left, he was a suspect in a bunch of burglaries. Yeah. Later on, they're going to find a bunch of shit they were looking for in his van in his California apartment. Yeah. So he's trying to just, he wanted to take the heat off of himself and start over. Please, slate. So he got a job at Schaefer jewelry in Los Angeles. Hey, why that shows back then though, you didn't know. You just didn't know anybody. Yeah. They should, whatever they wrote on their application. That's it. Law. What are you fucking know? There he met a woman named Nora Lawson here. I guess he would learn while she browsed the cabinets of jewelry under his watch, registered vehicles in the state of California. So he befriended her under the guise of help in registering his vehicle. Hey, can you help me? So Lawson later told the cops that she and John agreed to meet at her house on May 18, 1989 to discuss the procedures for transferring his Colorado license plates to his van in California. Millions of people moved to California. They all figure out how to go to the DMV. Yeah. So the next day she left her house between nine and 10 a.m. When she returned, she caught a glimpse of the van, which John had driven to her house the day before, leaving her house. She goes inside her house and been ransacked. And she found that jewelry, money, watches and a camera were sold on inside. Oh, no. John denied the claims, but then confessed when the cops came and visited him at the jewelry store days later and searched his home. So during that search, that's when he's found with property listed as stolen and several really burglaries as well. But the Greeley police never followed up with their own charges, even though now they had proof and could easily charge them. They didn't do it. What's going on? On October 10, 1989, John was convicted of that California burglary and sentenced to you, sir. They fuck off two years in prison. He was paroled and grilled to Greeley in a year. So that's how this goes. He got two years and within a year, he served 50% of it and was sent back to Colorado. I guess they, I mean, California's just like get the fuck out of here then. So we don't have to deal with your scumbag. Ask go ahead. So one of his parole officers said that during one of those visits, he and John began discussing an event recently where a body was found somewhere in Southern Wells, a welled county about 40 miles south of Greeley, you know, a dead body. And John said, I don't know why they keep finding bodies. They're not that hard to get rid of. And because this from the books as quote, piet who is the parole officer, remembered that statement, peaked his interest. I would hope so. You're a fucking parole officer. When your parolee begins talking of disappearing people, you should pay attention to that, bro. That one was rather curious. Oh, he said, what do you mean? And John said, I don't want to talk about it. Oh, no. You're going to talk about this shit or I'm going to find something to violate you for because this is, yeah. Wow. November 14, 1991. This is when he's seeing Tina about to get married. One year into his parole in Greeley, police called his parole officer saying that they had John on a trespassing charge. So they contact the parole officer police arrived at a Greeley residence on November 14, 1991 to find Brian Christensen leading John, who was dressed in all black out from behind the house with a broom. Like get now, like you do like a raccoon hiding behind a garbage can. I guess there's a girl named Heidi Paul, a woman who is the object of his peeping. And she said she'd saw him looking through the windows a week before as well. So she somebody saw him and came and shoot him away with a broom. He said quote, I was just looking for my friend. Yeah. Heidi. So normally, you know, you might knock on a door or call on the phone. I just look in the windows till I find him. That's how I come over to people's houses. I look in every window till I find that man. So I find him. It's crazy. I missed him. I missed him. Must have not be here. His friend's name is Doug Smith, very creative, a nursing student at UNC. He said he had my psych book and I wasn't sure which house was his. You know, so rather than knock on the door. I figured I'd watch women through windows. Police took him home. Later, they found out that he was registered as a student at Ames Community College. And they did find two Doug Smiths at UNC, also University of Northern Colorado, but neither of them knew John. Okay. He was cited for third degree trespass and his parole was extended to September 1993. Oh. New Year's Day marriage. So this is what Tina, this is what I mean. Fucking wow. Yes. This is what I'm saying. I know it took more questions, ladies. I know it took an hour to get from the marriage back to the marriage, but you had to see what Tina thinks she's getting herself into and what Tina is actually getting herself into. My God. She has no earthly fucking clue. Any of this is going on. Really? None. She thinks she just met a nice student. He's five years, seven years older than her, but who cares? You know, he's great. Who's the ex that came to call? Well, that's this Renee person we'll talk about. So they get married. That's New Year's Day 92. Then later that month, first month of marriage couldn't be more newlyweds. John was caught peeking into two windows. What? Into windows in the area of 15th Street and 11th Avenue. Two women who lived in those homes, pressed charges and another trespassing charge in municipal court was added to his list. Okay. So somehow from January 92 through March of 93, he manages to stay generally out of trouble. Yeah. Here. Then on March 3rd, 1993, a woman named Wendy noticed that a car continually is behind her as she made her daily stops in downtown Greeley as she was a sales rep for the Greeley Tribune. Yeah. The newspaper. She started to get panicked here because she said that the car she would turn in different spots and make a left here, you know, do like a face of driving and the car would still be following. So she took a turn into the Greeley Tribune parking lot and she ran inside. John followed her into the lot and parked his car there. He then went inside, he told the cops to place an ad to sell a piano. Oh, that's all he was trying to do. Yeah, I saw her out there. I figured, you know, she would know how to place a piano ad. So I followed her and stalked her a bit. I was just going to make the order with her. She's right there. I figured, you know, she would just do it on the street. So wow, she hid in there until he was gone. The police gave her photos of suspects. She couldn't identify him though. She did get the license plate, which was enough to warrant a harassment charge against him. So more of the piano ad incident here, Tina thinks it's all a big mistake. By the way, mistake and identity. Yeah. John's arrested this time for stalking a woman through, you know, following in the car and doing all that. Tina. Yeah, Tina said, no, she explained to her parents. It's totally mistake and identity. They just, they, she picked out the wrong guy. It's all it is. She said, Mary Ellen, this is Tina's mom. He was going, just going to put an ad in for a piano at the Tribune and wasn't following anybody. We stayed with her. We comforted her. And later I took candy bars and magazines to John while he was in jail. That's Tina's parents. His parole was not revoked, but he did have to spend some time in jail. Mary Ellen said, we felt sorry for him. We believed him when he said he didn't do it. Wow. They said, Mike and Mary Ellen supported their daughter, supported John. And Tina was sure John was innocent. And this is ridiculous. This poor man makes her like a more. So he had been attending a therapy group since the summer of 92, which I'm going to say, yeah, that might have been what kept him out of trouble for the next eight to nine months after that. Is it Howard Order? Or was this just a decision he made? Well, I'm not sure about that, but seven days after the incident with where he followed the newspaper girl, local sexual assault counselor, that's some business card. Hi, local sexual assault counselor. Are you a consult? Which way do you consult? Yeah. Yeah. Who are you counseling? Hopefully the other direction. Urban Davies filed a memo with the parole board stating that John had quote, toxic secrets, deviant sexual behaviors and sexual offense cycle. He said, okay, but he's not. He's not. Yeah, he knows what it is. He knows he's not confessing anything that he did, but he's certainly confessing enough that that that doctor knows that this man's dangerous. If he'll say, the bodies aren't that hard to get rid of to his parole officer, imagine what he'll say to this fucking guy. So he said John was working on his personal cycle of sexual violence, quote unquote, but he believed that this was all continuing and even escalating on some levels and noted that John represented a risk to the community even now. And his activity starts to pick up after this incident with the really Tribune woman. He'd often just disappear for hours on end. He just take off. He wouldn't know where the fuck he went. What happened? Tina would call friends at three or four in the morning looking for John. Where have you seen him? I haven't seen him. So that's what's interesting. Now November, 1993, his assault counselor there writes a second memo stating John said he was committed to attending group therapy once he was released from parole, but he never returned. Obviously, he's off parole. He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor harassment of the really Tribune woman in late December, 1993, but his parole wasn't extended because it was only a misdemeanor. So his parole is over in September, 93. That's amazing. They've changed that, right? If you, if you're on parole and it's fucking brushed with the law, I would think, but it also depend. There's a lot that depends on the discretion of the parole officer. The discretion of a judge, discretion of a lot of different people that goes with that. It should be. It should be. It's a state. It's county. It's all different. So June, 1994, John is arrested again. Oh, the cops must really have it in for him. I mean, this poor guy, Jesus, he's just going around. Everyone must look just like him. The amount of police interaction he's had is staggering. It's, he might as well have just gotten a fucking badge in a paycheck for the last 15 years because he's at the police station just as much as they are. And he's really bad at crime. Oh, he's terrible at it. But if you, if a percentage of times you're, you get caught or interacted with the police, imagine the amount of, he's never not tugging and peeping. No, he has just, he has gall. He just, he has such aggression. So in June, 94, he is arrested for stalking two women in Douglas County. Okay. The woman reported a man in a green geoprism, the symbol of success in America, the green geoprism. And was following her when she and her friend went to the mall when they had finished shopping, the woman reported a Hispanic man approached her, having a little car trouble. The man said to them, uh-huh. When they approached the car, she noticed her tires had been slashed and the man approached them again. Oh boy. He said she and her friend ran back into the mall to call for help. Yeah. It's a total Bundy. He tried to bundle her. This is fucking crazy. The license plate of the car he drove was listed to Tina. Oh. Yeah. When police questioned. So they cops called her up. Yeah. Hey, why was your car here? She lied for him. What? We get him out of it. Yeah, she hasn't won her husband going to jail. So then 1994. A female employee of State Farm, this is in July of 94, of State Farm, had reported a man stalking and following her all over town. She said this had been going on for two years. She had been being stalked by the same person. Yeah. This woman reported seeing the man several times. Quote, sometimes months would go by and I wouldn't notice him watching me. I just wanted God to protect me. He was making my life miserable. So he's going to plead no contest to a misdemeanor harassment charge in 1995 and get a suspended sentence, meaning if he just stays at a trouble, he won't get any jail time. But instead of staying at a trouble, he continued harassing this woman, same woman through the summer of 1995. And that's when Tina is going to catch up to all this. We'll talk about that. Now Tina had been calling Jesse for months because the first person she calls when she can't find John is Jesse, because that's his best friend and his cousin, wondering where her husband was and all that kind of shit. Now he's facing all these harassment charges and everything else. And Tina starts asking people he knows and people they know together. Why am I not enough for him that he has to go around stalking women? She takes it like, yeah, personally, this is a slight to our relationship. She now nicknamed him something to her friends as well. He gets, yeah, quote, not the shadow, which is a good name. Instead of the panty sniffer, which is not as cool of an ain't. That's not a nickname you give yourself. You know what I'm saying? I like Tina. Dean is fun. She's good shit this day. Yeah, that's the, that's the one that the newspaper gives you as an insult. That's the insult on. He's like, how about the shadow and they're like, how about the panty sniffer? How's that set? I got the case for the West Side panty sniffer. And he's pounding on his dad's. Fuck how about the micro penis panty sniffer? How's that? That's got a ring to it. What he's like. So the panty sniffer. Ah, Tina. Oh my goodness. At first, she would defend him saying that he suffered from a disease. He's got something wrong with him. He's in therapy. But that as a sexual deviant. That's the thing. And as the cases begin to really pile up like, yeah, snowfall on a winter's day. She's got like, this is bad. So she decides that she's going to leave here. Jesse remembers her crying on his shoulder that July, knowing what he knew about his cousin and somehow trying to convince her that it's going to be okay. Jesse said, I didn't tell her of his criminal past. I was trying to look out for her as best I could knowing the things I knew. I had no idea what the hell he was doing. I was really immersed in my own life. I was worried about her, but I had so much going on. So August 1995, she says she wants a divorce. She moves out. She's done. Yeah, she's done. She said, that's it. My husband's the panty sniffer. I can't have this. The gray leaf and she's only 23 for Christ's sake. She is so young. She can divorce him. Leave this shit in the past and never think about it again and go have a whole life after it. Like this is a bump in the road. Yeah. So she wants a divorce. And that's how things sit for a while in late summer 1995. She wants a divorce. She moves out blah, blah, blah. October the 19th, 1995 Tina visits John. She had a night shift that night and told the fellow co-workers there that she and her sister and her co-workers that she was going to visit John that night because he had not returned the divorce papers that he needed to sign. Right. So she was going to go over there and try to goose him a little bit. Well, let's not say that. That could be bad. Her sister, she told her sister she would call after she left John's house to make sure she was safe because her sister said, I want you going over there. She said, I'll call you when I'm done. I got to get this over with. So the next day, Christina Tina is reported missing. Oh, Jesus. She never comes home. So the cops obviously want to talk to John about this. Yeah, clearly. Yeah. So they said that based on his history, they considered him more dangerous than just your average person, as far as potential for violence and especially sexual violence and things like that. This is Lieutenant Brad Goldschmidt here. He says that's why when Tina was reported missing, even after only eight hours, we immediately sprung into action because of John's past. Like we didn't just fart around and go, well, we'll ask around about her and call and they were like, where's where she buried essentially or where she, what closet is did he stuff her in or what basement is she in? The 24 hours thing they didn't even consider it. No, not even. No, they said seven or eight hours. They said we knew they were in a divorce and by that in itself with the domestic violence issues as they can be, we immediately suspected him of her disappearance. They also knew that her coat had to been spotted at her house, but they didn't know where the fuck she was. So this cop said by 1130 that night, we were in Tina's apartment. That's important. We saw her apartment in her apartment, all indications that what they're telling us is truthful, clothes from work, her ID badge. This is someone who quickly changed and left, right, came home, got out of her scrubs, put some shit on and went over to his house. She said, they said everything was alerting us to, to this is a girl who was just doing a visit or just going to visit and never returned. So she didn't, wasn't planning on running away. She just changed quick around 1 a.m. Gold Schmidt and the other cops knocked on John's door and they find his new girlfriend, woman named Gabby. She spoke with them for a minute, but would not allow them to search the house. No, not happening. They said so they didn't do anything. They said, yeah, no, you can't search the house. They didn't have a warrant. So they just, all they had to do was think had to leave. They couldn't do anything. So they were writing a search warrant for John's house and they stopped for a second. This guy who was writing the search warrant is Olsen. He said her car is missing knowing human nature of something happened. We know we knew he'd be solo. So he's not going to hide her car very far from the residents. Yeah. So we figured it's going to have to be within walking distance. Walking to his house. Yeah. And he said, that's how I found the car within a mile radius of this fucking house. I started checking parking lots around his house. I pulled into the alley behind the save a lot and there it was. What? Wow. Think about that. Right down the street. Right down the street from his house. That's where he had the car apparently. Allegedly, we'll find out if it's ever not. So he said it was 3 a.m. The car was just about four blocks from John's home. It was locked parked in an obscure place. Just yards away from the town home where John had been arrested weeks prior for trespassing. Also, so he might have dropped the car off and stopped for a quick peep. Even. Yeah. So it was locked the car inside. They found Tina's cell phone and wallet in the glove box. And this is 1995 cell phone. Yeah, this is probably for work because she's a nurse. A lot of times nurses get called in. So that's what they do. Her keys were nowhere to be found. They said, when we found her car a few blocks away, we really felt something bad happened to Tina. That's why I assigned a patrol officer on that house, meaning John's house. 546 a.m. Okay. There's an officer parking her police cruiser near the house looking for signs of John. Smithing around at 546. The cops get a call saying John had just parked his car in front of his house. The cops said that John got out of his car, reached inside, grabbed two white bags and walked into the house. So this cop outside awaits the detectives and said that while she's waiting for the detectives, someone came out of the rear of the house, got into a park to pick up at the residence, then walked back toward the house, carrying one or two white objects from the truck. They said, this is the detective's. A goldsmith said it was almost bang, bang. I just read the trespassing case. I had just mentioned it to Keith and then Joy called. That's the other cop outside the house and said that a car just drove up. I jumped in my car, drove out there and another cop met me. It took me about two minutes to get there. So another cop was there looking in a John's car through the window. Inside, he sees a bucket with a white plastic bag stuffed inside a wet shovel, a wet shovel, a wet, a shovel that has been in the ground in the last five hours. Yeah. Or just in the wet ground either one or that. Yeah. And a length of rope. Who we that's not great. No, they said there's no reason a wet shovel should be in your car at five a.m. And there's no fucking legal reason for that at all. That's like washing your car at three a.m. Both of those indicate bad things bad things. Or you're, I've done that just because I'm bored at three a.m. And it's on the act. Yeah. So I've like in Phoenix, I go to this time for hour. I wasn't trying to hide evidence. I was just bored. And that's what I was up. You don't have to tell me. I don't care if you were or not. There's so many more Jimmy. You don't even know. So, um, yeah, if you're a night person, why is it okay for everyone else to do your shit at 10 in the morning when I'm trying to sleep? Fuck you. Yeah. I'm washing a car. So they had the officers around the house in case that he decided to take off. So they walked back to the back door and knock. It's not as grown from sorry, his aunt answers. Gap, that's his aunt. She said, um, she said, I walked up to the back door. All right, the cops that I walked up to the back door and she said he's in the shower. There was another sinking feeling because we know that shoot. He's probably washing away evidence right now. Right. I almost walked in then. Uh, they said what they didn't. They were calling the district attorney trying to get a warrant. They need a warrant. So they waited for word that if they have enough probable cause to enter, they call back to the office. Go, is there enough probable cause here? Um, the cops said, I said he's inside. And she tells us to make contact. So Gabby says he's in the shower. And I'm telling our evidence, I'm saying our evidence is going down the drain. And finally they said, okay, you can enter. So they knock on the door again. And the cop, Goldsmith said, I went back and get and I said, Gabby, I need to talk to John. Now that's when she said, I was mistaken. John's not home. Uh, Gabby. Yeah. You know, then I saw a figure move pastor and the bathroom door open. She came back and lied and I said, okay, step aside. I knew it was a lie. That gave me the exigen, exigency to enter that house without a warrant and to try to preserve any evidence of teen is whereabouts being destroyed. I didn't go in there to arrest him. It was to preserve evidence. They said it would have been entirely different if John had come to the store in a t shirt and said, I don't know where Tina is. They said, we would have probably questioned him briefly and then walked away with our thumbs up arouses because we would have nothing. But instead they enter the home and announce to John that they're coming in. John is wearing a black t shirt jeans on a cold morning. He jumps out the back bedroom window. Why would you do that? And fucking, he's barefoot, by the way, on a frosty ground and attempts to run away in the backyard. Slips. No, one of the cops that was out there waiting the joy. She said, freeze and pulled her gun out. She said she was aimed at her gun at him, told him to get down on his knees, which he does because he is a pussy. Remember that. He's a coward. Another officer arrived helped take him into custody. He later claimed that the cops broke his toe in the struggle. They said that was complete bullshit. They said, yeah, the only thing he ever said though is I want a lawyer. Okay. That's it, which normally he'll try to talk his way out of things. Right. When it's this, he just says, I want a lawyer, which means you know the legal system. So now Gabby's pissed off at the, at the cops now, which is ridiculous. They caught her house without a warrant. She went and took a shower to get ready for work. She wasn't having any of this. She's very upset. Yeah. They said that cops thought that she was hiding evidence too. She lied to them. They said, why did you lie? And she said, I didn't know he was here. Okay. So that's that he keeps getting fucking, he keeps getting fucking. Why is he so like excuses? He's full of shit. He's a manipulator. And I mean, he thought he convinced Tina a smart woman from a good family that he was a good guy. He's a full of shit. And a college is nice too. Yeah. Now, the great thing about this is they don't, they're not arresting him on anything. They don't know what happened to Tina, but they do find out that there is a trespassing charge from a separate incident that they could arrest him for. Okay. So they go ahead and arrest him for that. And that'll at least keep him in jail for a minute while they figure out what the fuck's going on. Keep him from running away. So he's arrested. Now, when he's in the patrol car, he said, why am I being arrested? And the, this is just the uniform cop who held him at gunpoint is transporting him. She said, I don't have any information to give you. They told me to. So they sent him down at the station 714 AM, metal chair, our metal table plastic chair. The cop who sat him down immediately noticed a long scratch mark along the right side of his face just under his eye. Not great. She went to another room and watched him through the live video feed as well and saw him start chewing his nails. Really getting in there. Two minutes later, a detective who'd been in his house that morning came in and told him to stop doing that. So John started picking his fingernails, trying to clean under him, you know, where there's shit. Yeah. So he, they said he quietly, he would work to clean out all the nails and the detective goldchman again said he's destroying fucking evidence. Go in there and babysit him and don't let him do that. So they do. So for the next hour, um, he sat in there in the interview room. They tried to talk to him and basically he's just trying to find out what they know. This is a fishing expedition for him, not the other way around. He knew he was being filmed. He knew the police were on the other side watching. So he's like talking out loud to them. One of the cops said after we handcuffed both hands to the wall, he repositioned his chair so he could reach it. He had, he kept trying to chew his nails. They said he was desperate and they're trying to put together an arrest warrant for everything they have. So he doesn't skip town. At 846, they returned to take photographs and John fought them, keeping his body in constant motion to keep them from getting a clear shot with the camera. Sure. Then they took evidence from his car, a bucket, a white plastic trash bag, a round pivoted, a round pointed shovel, a level, a small red flashlight on a rope, a small coil of rope, and a tourist nine millimeter semi automatic pistol loaded with five rounds from the center console. Why does he have all that? That sounds like a murder burial can, no. So they tow his car to the impound lot for further, for their evidence tracking and processing and they have tracking dogs sniff for potential decomposition and all that kind of shit. They continued to collect everything they could at his house. They found wet muddy clothes piled up in the bathroom, along with wet muddy boots and water stained glasses on the counter. Inside one of the bathroom drawers, they found two of Tina's credit cards. Oh, and put that in the evidence list. Okay. That'll come up later. The evidence list. Sure. Remember that. They found another spare bedroom items, more items here. Now at the same time, John is in jail and they're trying to figure that what the fuck is going on. So they are, while he's in jail, they're trying to figure out, was there domestic violence here? Was there any warning signs? What's the deal evidence that we could have to tie him to this? Yeah. So they're searching for things. They didn't find much, much later, they'll find a couple of people who had some things to say, but Tina's very private. She doesn't tell everybody that. So family members said they knew of no domestic violence, but some of her siblings confided that they thought that John was strange and often lying and hiding things from Tina. So there's that. Now police are just trying to figure this out. They said that he's a peeper. He's all this. Did he take the next step? So they're like, did he dump her somewhere? Right. His demeanor and the shovel and all that. They're like, he fucking killed her and put her somewhere. Period. She's muddy and everything else. They found out that John loved to target shoot in some gravel pits and pierce, which is about 12 miles north of Greeley. Um, this is a Tina's dad told police about the gravel pits, which had big mounds of dirt there. He said that's where his son-in-law took him to shoot once. And it was John's favorite shooting spot. And his Tina's dad thought that might be a good place from behind the body. So they go to the gravel pits the next day, October 21st, they're there. They arranged with the National Guard to shoot aerial photographs. They searched the black, hollow reservoir south of the gravel pits. They bring several canines. They have, I'm this is an all hands on deck. Yeah. Shot here around one o'clock. They take the dogs over to the reservoir. Um, they noticed a, a boot imprint and dry irrigation ditch next to the reservoir that they thought could be a clue to this case. They bring other bloodhounds looking for things. They searched the entire area. They have dive team members from the fire department. Dead serious. Full on search. They find. Oh, God's here. Nothing. Nothing. So after a while, they just suspend the searches because they're like, we, we'd have to search the entire state. We have no idea where to start here. So, uh, police had contacted Tina's co-workers, John's co-workers, neighbors, friends, everybody they could even literally their mailman. See if he had any dirt. But they couldn't find anything but just bullshit and rumors and, you know, I heard this from this person. So they didn't know what to do. Now the cops are stopping looking with the family isn't. Her family is hardcore looking. They put thousands of flyers up. They organize teams of searchers to search certain, I mean, they go, they want to find their goddamn daughter. Oh, yeah. Nine kids are not. They're like, we don't want eight. We want all nine. This is no way. So police then talked to cousin Jesse. Okay. And Jesse's living in Denver on the weekdays and spending the weekends in really so we could visit his daughter. The cops were asking about Tina. Jesse said he hung his head and said later on, quote, when they said she'd been missing for 24 hours, I knew. Yep. Jesse knew all about John's behavior. And when Tina had left John in the summer of 1995, Jesse says they had a short lived affair. Jesse and Tina, what? Yeah. She said, he said she ended it when she began seeing someone else while awaiting for her divorce. Just moving on. Jesse believed if John knew of that affair that he had with Tina, that John would have killed him. And he said that he said that Tina told him once that if anything ever happened to her, John's the one who did it. So that's the only info he really has to offer is that here's something that might have pissed him off. And she was scared that something would happen. So yeah, they're searching. They printed thousands of flyers, the family. They, it's a lot. It's a lot. November 1st, 1995, police head to sunset memorial gardens, which is a cemetery. Following up on a tip they'd received earlier, John had worked digging graves in the summer of 1990. Great. That's yeah. Hey, everybody stay in school. The ors be real funny. I don't know what to tell you. One of the other that worked for us, but it might not work for you. I don't know. He's done every awful job. And a lot of them have helped him further. The career. Yeah. Yeah. So the night of Tina's disappearance, there were three open graves in the cemetery, which sat directly across the highway from Tina's apartment. That's. So Goldschmidt asked a guy who was on duty on shift at their cemetery. Is it possible someone could hide a body in these open graves? And the guy who worked there said, no, when the graves are dug, a cement vault is immediately lowered into the grave to prepare the grave site for the coffin. It would be possible for anyone to move this vault and under or around it. It just wouldn't be their thing. They're big. They're thick. They're eight inches thick concrete caskets that a casket goes in. Exactly. And then it has a concrete lid on top of that. It's a lot and under the ground there. So this guy said he did remember, John, when he worked there, he said, uh, he told the cop after reading about his wife's disappearance in the newspaper, I thought I'd look around here and see if there were any places John could have hit a body. Really? So the cops had the same idea this guy had. So the cops said, you find anything? And he said, we check the areas where the cement vaults are kept. There are many crevices that would be big enough to place a body in. We checked all those areas. There was nobody. So they searched derries. They searched wells, sewers, abandoned farms everywhere they searched. They said, uh, one Goldschmidt said, I wouldn't say we searched top to bottom throughout the county, but a good portion of it and Laramor County to FBI reports showed no DNA, no fingerprints, nothing linking Tina to John's clothes or her car or his, no physical evidence, plant life and sand collected from Tina's car and John's boots were coming up with little also. They didn't match either. So Goldschmidt said it was frustrating. We had some tips that were better than others that were more plausible just by virtue of where they were. And what we knew about what was discovered in John's car and places he may have been, some tips seems like they had potential and the majority did not. They check it as job here, uh, call center and really where he called and sick the whole week of her disappearance. Right. They just said he was very quiet. He was a loner. That's it. Um, there's a hair lady. Lady that cut John's hair and about a week before Tina's disappearance. She said that he seemed distraught and that he blamed his depression on the breakup of his marriage. She said that his talk made her uncomfortable as it was so intimate. He complained to the young woman that he'd missed three days of work, sitting in his bedroom in the dark, trying to deal with the breakup. She said that he told her that he finally decided to pull himself together. But he kept bitching though. She said he said I gave her everything. I can't understand why she's leaving. And this is this, this wasn't someone who's been cut in his hair for years and knows him. This was his first visit to the song. Nice. Jesus Christ anybody that'll listen. That's a man. He was stranger. John also told her that his wife was seeing another man and she kept him in a state of confusion. And she said she wanted to work things out one minute. Then wants to divorce the next. Right. A couple of weeks later, the cops get an anonymous call from a woman stating that she had spoken with someone who knew an inmate, who roomed with John in the jail, who bumped with him in there and said that he talks in his sleep. And the inmate had told her that John said in his sleep, I cut her up and fed her to the pigs. Oh, this becomes a very common one. There's a bunch of people who say that they heard him say I cut her up and fed her to the pigs. Two weeks later, a really resident called Rex Tinscher. Called it's police to report a conversation with John at a bar the night before teen is disappearance. This Rex told Goldschmidt that he had run into John at rafferty's a bar in West really at about 11 p.m. The two men sat down for a drink. They commiserated about their problems with women for 10 minutes. He said John seemed upset when the conversation ended. He said, quote, too bad we can't just kill him. This guy said that was not thing to say. It is bizarre. Yeah. That's a strange thing to tell again, a stranger. So he was sentenced to nine months in jail for harassment and trespassing. This is in pervert court. I'm going to call it. You know, he, uh, he pleads guilty to violating the conditions of a suspended sentence. He received in a harassment case the year before for the woman he followed. The same day he also appeared in court to face a felony weapons charge that tore a nine millimeter in his car as a convicted felony wasn't allowed to carry any guns. Nope. So they found one in his home and one in his car. He pleads guilty in March of 96 to the trespassing charge in the other case and exchanged for the gun possession charges being dropped in a plea agreement. And they sentenced him to you, sir. They fuck off six years in prison. Finally. Wow. They said noting his past, like normally I wouldn't be giving six years for this, but you have earned every day of this shit. While he's in prison, they can really follow up now. But they keep getting these leads, quote unquote, that are more like just dead ends and false trails and just, you know, shadows of nothing, basically. So tips come in and police would interview anybody. They didn't care. They had nothing. So they need to interview anybody. They did. They said, unfortunately, our investigation at the beginning was kind of rerouted from investigating John to trying to find Tina. Everybody was put in that direction, including investigators. And we shouldn't have been. He said we should have thought from the beginning. She's dead, investigate him. But instead they were trying to find her. April 29, 1996, Gold Schmidt goes searching from the air, repeating areas that if they searched on foot, a trailer court, some town over here gravel pits, barnsville areas where they had once lived in that area, May 13, 1996, another call came in from a man whose friend said he overheard John and Jail saying the best way to get rid of a body is to feed it to the pigs. We've had this come up several times so many times. There's a psychic, a psychic who sent Mike and Mary Ellen, Tina's parents on a field trip to Wyoming, about a tip about an old mine that sent them all the way on private property to some close down mine. They could have been shot. They could have fallen into mine. They found nothing. Obviously July 31, 1996, weld County Jail inmate Robert Brown tells detective Gold Schmidt, he once served time with John in that time. While they were incarcerated, there was one instance in which John appeared to be drugged from some medication he was taking. So this guy said, what happened to your wife as they lay in the bunks? John, he said, smirked and said sarcastically, they'll never find her. I cut her up. Brown said that John had either buried or burned the body, but he couldn't remember which. He also told the detective that he talked to other inmates who had apparently heard the same story from John, but Gold Schmidt could find no other inmates who claimed to have heard that. A month later, another call came from a woman whose mother knew something or knew someone who was housed in jail with John. This person said that John admitted to shooting Tina, then burying her in the red feather lakes area of Northwest Fort Collins, Northwest of Fort Collins, also in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. Yeah. So they contacted the mother who was afraid of giving police information and said she firmly believed John would come back and kill anyone who provided the police information. So she wouldn't talk by the end of September, 1996. There's a psychic name Mary or Nancy Miller that's talking to another one. Yeah, Mary Ellen, Tina's mom convinced Detective Gold Schmidt to talk to the psychic. Okay. No, cops kind of discount psychics. Obviously, but Gold Schmidt said anything who knows, you know what I mean? What the fuck? He also said about a decade earlier, Gold Schmidt worked a murder case in which a man killed two women in Fort Collins and his girlfriend at the time led police to one of the bodies claiming only psychic abilities and letter there. That was his girlfriend, Gold Schmidt's. So he said, you can't discount people who claim to be psychics. They may just be using the psychic angle to provide more information. Whenever I get a psychic tip, I always think about that case. And if there's an ulterior motive, they might be the murder. That makes sense. In this case, the psychic told Gold Schmidt that Tina was involved with a married man who was a white male and on the date of her disappearance, they met at a restaurant with the word Sizzler in it. Gee, wonder which one that was. Sizzler maybe wasn't. There's also Western Sizzling in. Is there? You know what? Yeah, or isn't that Western skillet Western Sizzling? Oh, it is. Okay. I thought there's a Western skillet at all those truck stops. So I heard skillet never mind. I heard skillet. There you go. I mixed them together. You can be Sizzler or Western Sizzling. Well, this is Sizzler. Okay. They both have Sizzle. Oh, yeah. She said Tina was going to break up with this person and tried to do it at the restaurant, but they began to argue loudly. Her boyfriend suggested they go somewhere private and they went to a motel and really the psychic said there. They got to another argument and the man killed her in the room by breaking her neck. Oh, quote, he wrapped her in a blanket and put her in the trunk of her car and began driving north of really. He didn't know what to do with her. When he drove past a church with a cemetery, he decided to do something with her as soon as possible. About a mile past this church, he stopped and threw her out of the car on the left hand side of the road near a culvert. He this psychic said the Mary man has since divorced his wife because she found out about the affair and what he had done. But none of that explained John. So they're like, this doesn't connect any of our dots here. Yeah, that's not our guy. October 10th, 96. So we're talking a year later. Goldsmith receives a call from a Florida truck driver who said he saw a woman working at a restaurant there who looked exactly like Tina. Goldsmith called in and assist from the county sheriff over there, faxed over Tina's picture. And the officer said she does look like Tina. She just had her second baby and her mother lives in Florida. I don't think this is your girl. Okay. So he just happened to look like that. He thought that she ran away to Florida to be a server. A waitress rather than a cancer nurse. You know, and there's only one blonde girl in Florida, obviously. So they had no tips dried up. Nothing happened. Then there's a psychic reading. This is Mike, dad, Tina's dad. He has a psychic reading with a man named Jonathan of the psychic center of the Rockies. By the way, it's all psychics now. You have nothing else. This is the transcript from this call. This is great. He says, okay, I can just tell you what I get. And then you're going to have to take it from there. I don't know how else to explain it to you. Okay. It seems like, um, why did I do that? Well, I need more information than that. Don't I? It's almost as if a green automobile was involved in this. The man that was involved in this had darker hair, a little bit taller than she was, about 185 and wait. His eyes are dark. In fact, it almost looks like there are two men involved in this. Um, I can't make out the other guy. I don't think he's the one that did the deed. He was paid to haul the body. The woman's dead. Did you know that? So Tina's dad said we suspected. And the psychic said because I don't feel a heartbeat around her at all. And I usually do when I don't feel anything at all. Okay. What's that? Canyon, Canyon city, Canyon road, Canyon street. You remember, okay? It's kind of like one of those roads. It's like a two lane road that goes straight and then drops down a little tiny hill, comes up and then curves to the left. And there's like a little tiny barrier. It's a metal barrier with white, with these white looking or light colored posts. She's on the other side down into kind of like a little bit of a gully. And she's buried there. I'm not getting a real clear picture. She'll be very hard to find. How long has she been gone now a year and a half? Then the psychic said her husband had something to do with this. How come they haven't caught him? And the dad said he's in prison for other crimes. And the psychic said, is he? Okay. He was arrested the night she disappeared. Dad said and the psychic said that's why I'm seeing there's another person involved, involved. And dad says my wife and I suspected it. So the psychic says, yeah. So she just got into the wrong place at the wrong time. To be quite frank, I don't know what kind of detail you want to me to go into, but I'm not going to tell you how she died or anything along that line. I don't think you need to know. Okay. You'll find that out later, but it's a sense of she fought them tooth and nail. I'll tell you that much. What's her birth sign? Dad says, um, you know, because he's a 60 year old man. He has no fucking idea. So the psychic says birth dates fine. They say March 17th. And they say, okay, she's a Pisces in the Cusp of Aries, which would make her very argumentative at times, but a lot of spunk. It's kind of interesting. This goes down down into the gully like there's some green stuff around her too. I'm not sure what that is. She has not been dumped in a river or anything along that line. So you don't have to worry about that or into a lake, but it could be like a railroad track, pretty close to kind of like the side of a mountain. So you need to get a map. So they said she's in this state. And he said, yeah, in this state is a matter of fact. So they had time, unfortunately. And they said he said, yeah, he did. And she lived here, correct? She did lived lived here. Yes, really. So the psychic said, if she's, if she is found, he will get a death sentence. And the guy that helped him out, maybe this way, the guy is a bisexual. He was abusive. He was, this could have been a boyfriend's type scenario for him that, um, what's the word I want to use? Um, ruthless type of individualist. And I think that's how all this came down. Plus she knew too much. She knew what they were all about and more than one area, the crimes been committed. And they needed her out of the way. That's how it came down because he thought he wouldn't be convicted of anything if she was out of the way. None of this makes sense because all the stuff that she knew. So the guy wasn't too smart in that area. Okay. I want you to remember that. And I don't want you, uh, and I don't know what else I could possibly tell you. Anything else you want to know? Where's she? Yeah. So gold smit looks over all of this and decides this is classic. Somebody getting grifting the information off of this poor person and spit it back in their face. Um, October 97, a new tip comes in here. Uh, gold smit felt he might have something here. A guy called and said he pulled a truck out of an alleyway at the 100 block of 14th Avenue and Greeley. And found an unusual depression about two and a half feet wide and four feet long. He said, so gold smit got a shovel and went out there. Yeah. And, uh, he dug and dug and dug and he found something. What do you find? Buried garbage. December 97, a psychic in Texas forward and police, a letter describing Tina's whereabouts. He said, I see a tall, Lanky young man who fiddles with a chain all the time. Psychic also put a map in saying where the body was. And as a side note stated that if you put that map on top of Colorado, the location should be evident. Uh, so like, like your one eyed Willie's gold, you gotta put the things that lines up just right. He said there's a burned out field in what looks like the top of an extinct volcano nearby. What? And then said woodworm and telepathic bond were also written on the pages as well as there was a witness to the husband's coming and goings in the apartment that day. Also a clue in the bed itself on a piece of gold fabric. None of this help. February 98, a man called and said two of his friends told him that when Tina disappeared, John was in the process of expanding his mother's basement. He said the two girls said John and contracted with cement workers, but canceled them at the last minute and said he couldn't buried her in his mother's basement. Okay, that didn't work out either August 4th, 1998, a weld county inmate Thomas Loveland, who was a cellmate of johns in 96 wanted to make a deal. He said he'd give gold Schmidt all the information he gleaned from bunking with john if the officer would help him get back on work release detail, which had just been revoked. Now, gold Schmidt said this guy really had some credibility. He said that they spent a lot of time talking one night they talked till 4 a.m. and he said john gave him specific details of where Tina's body was. Loveland said john said he did not kill Tina, but he knew where the body was. He directed gold Schmidt to toward a lake in rural weld county out near sterling several miles northeast of Greeley in the grasslands. He said if you turn it a pump house on the southeast corner of the intersection and go back toward Greeley, you'll come upon a farmhouse directly across this house as a dirt road that goes into a lake, which is fed by a large irrigation canal. They waited down Tina's body and put her in the lake. Yeah, they don't find shit there. They find anything. They drain they drain the fucking lake. It took a week to drain the lake. Oh my god to find nothing to find nothing. And they said, well, that discredited him. 1999 a body is discovered in Laramie Wyoming. Female similar age turns out not Tina. That same year 1999 john is paroled to live with his dad in Vegas. That's going to be a white. What? Yeah, in Vegas. Wow. So he moves to Vegas and first year he's got a ankle monitor. Now they they're deciding, do we go after him or do we wait for more evidence? What do we do? Yeah. So they said that this is a capital case first degree and the prosecutor said, I decided let's wait. We had a number of cases where we waited and the defendant was dumb enough to fuck up basically. They said, maybe that'll happen because if they bring him in too early and he gets found not guilty, then they can never try him again. Even if they find Tina with, you know, his drivers license stuff down her throat. He's still kept his prosecute. And maybe this will stop psychics from mudding the waters because there's so many calling in just giving vague ass shit. If you're such a psychic, where the fuck is shit? Yeah. Tell me exactly where to look. March 17th 2000 her 28th birthday. By the way, that is Portina there. The district attorney said that he got an anonymous call, a man with a Mexican accent said he had information about the case. He said he wanted the DA to promise not to seek the death penalty. Then they guy hung up, but then he called again in the afternoon saying the sand of all family has property in red feather lakes. Remember that one guy said that right. Yeah. And John used to spend a lot of time there. A cabin burned down on this property. You need to look there. Then they hung up. So they ended up finding this property, the Crystal Lakes subdivision of red feather lakes in May of 2000. They noticed a pile of rocks and a small clearing near the property, which have been obviously been put there by somebody. The pile of rocks was about two feet wide and six feet long. Yeah. Like a great boy. So they contact the property owner who said, yeah, I piled those rocks there myself in 1998. So they went, okay, never mind. More searching in the area revealed there had been fires there in the several last several times. They search everything and they said that fire. The owner said their cabin burned down in 81 when a plane crash and started a fire. Oh, they find nothing. They get bloodhounds and everything else, nothing. There is a dog that has a hit. They dig up the area, but nothing's there. It's a false hit. They had laid 2000 more tips about a grave near the pierce gravel pits where they had searched earlier. A man said a friend of his was living across from the gravel pits. And after an argument, she said she took off walking toward the gravel pit where she thought she lost her watch. And the next day went out looking for and stumbled across a grave. And this person said, that's the sand of all grave. You're never to ask me another question about it and you better be quiet about it. Oh, so now that that didn't work out either. In 2002, a debt certificate is issued for a well district court judge ruling that there's enough evidence that she's dead. That's just to release things and let all of the things work. February 2005, a woman called police stating that the month before, Zachary Patton was telling people that John forced him to help bury Tina's body. Patton, whose sister worked at sunset memorial garden cemetery, where employees had already had searched and police had visited, told friends that there were three open graves that night and Tina disappeared. He said he had to move a board from the top of one of the graves and dug a deeper hole than there was already dug. And he said he placed Tina's body at the bottom and then covered her. So the officer followed up with cemetery officials and learned that three graves had been drug for burials on the 20th. They determined two of the graves would have been impossible to penetrate and they are they already had a concrete slab placed at the bottom. And both were quite visible from the highway. The next day they found they found this woman who said that basically the cops should know that she's not there. In these gravel pits. So they basically they were looking around. They found nothing. Okay. The police one guy here, um, said after six, this woman, I'm sorry, Cassandra said after about six months after we met Zachary said he needed to get something off his chest because it was bothering him. He said the police were dumb and then they needed to be looking beneath the grave. He said John sand of all picked him up at either his house or a friend's house and they drove to sunset memorial cemetery together. They found a grave pulled Tina's body from the trunk of the car. Now this is a woman making a secondhand story though. Uh huh. Not not someone saying they did this. This is somebody else saying second hand put the body at the bottom of an open grave and covered her. He said he saw a bloody shovel with dirt on the inside of the car. He said John threatened to kill him if he told anybody. He said this woman said that he said he'd been having nightmares and could see Tina's face and he was crying. Um, and they said is that the type of person who would fake cry? And she said he's done it before he does this. He's full of shit. Yeah. So they said why didn't you report this sooner? And she said honestly I didn't believe him. He lied so many times and the story seemed so unbelievable. Please don't tell him. I told you. So then Zachary Pat and the guy they're talking about shows up at the Greeley Police Department and they show him a picture of Tina sand of all and say recognize her. And he said no. No, really. And they said do you recognize the name Tina sand of all? He said from the newspapers. That's the chick who got killed by her husband and he fucking ditched her somewhere, right? Yeah. He said my sister worked at sunset Memorial Garden. She told me police came out to the graveyard several times and were questioning people about the graves that were open that night. Um, they said, well, where were you during all this? And he says, oh, I was at a party doing methamphetamine drinking alcohol with a bunch of people. When a friend mentioned he had shot someone between the eyes years before and that it wasn't an easy thing to do, he said then it got over to the sand of all thing. So I just started talking. I believe him. They said you didn't do this and he said no, he said, man, I don't know anything about this. I never met Tina or John sand of all. I never heard anyone say they personally knew about this. I have a tendency to try to make myself look cooler than I am. He's like, it's not cool at all. I took a bunch of methamphetamine booze and wanted to be as cool as this other murderer. That's all. He said, honestly, I only made the story up to look good. He said, let me take a lie detector test. I'm telling the truth. Any was. Yeah. He was telling the truth. Just made some bullshit up. May 2005, Mike, dad, Tina's dad contacted Detective with a story. His friend's daughter had been having dreams. Tina was coming to her telling her where her body was. Really? The daughter said that didn't know her father was friends with Mike, nor did she know anything about the sand of all case. They didn't know anything about that. Police were unable to talk with her until July, 2005, when she was in the Weld County jail after being arrested on drug charges. She said, I started having dreams. First about Tina sand of all being killed. Then I heard from other people that Laurie Ortega said that Tina was beaten to death and buried in a slab of concrete at a house near the Pepsi distribution center and downtown. Really? So, you know, she's got this big story and she said that she dreams of of of Tina doing all this. She said another man came in the room and asked John what he was doing while he was killing Tina and John said, shut the fuck up and get out of here. And then John went back to beating her and all of this time, it is. I like it. Okay. I'm not a fan of psychics, but that one knowing. The guy saying that somebody saying that a guy told her that he helped her, but that other psychic said two guys did this. That's too much. That's a lot. It's a lot. So they said, are you on any medication? Yeah. She said, no. They said, have you taken any drugs recently? She said, I smoke marijuana occasionally. And I used to use meth and fatigues regularly, but I have it in two months. I'm sure I'm really in two months now. Two months. It's all, I'm cleaning so very interesting. It's all good. Yeah. January 2nd, 2007, another tip. An officer, an officer said that he overheard a woman talking about how her husband had helped John sand of all dig a trench, immediately proceeding. Tina's disappearance. They tracked the man down and he said they were there for three for four hours and remembered them talking about going to an upcoming Led Zeppelin concert in Denver in 1995. The ground was really hard and they were only able to get 18 inches into the ground. They did a Google search and found that the Zeppelin concert was at the end of August that year, giving the timeline for the trench was three months before the decision. It's before Tina even left him makes no sense. June, 2007, a woman called to say she was sure Tina was buried under her house and really after hearing her renters arguing and the male threatening the female with burying her beneath the house, quote, just like Tina was. Police didn't bother look at that one up. Police in November of 2007 get another psychic tip from Mary Ellen. They said they brought cadaver dogs and for three hours, they searched and yeah, so found nothing. Late 2008, early 2009, there's some fresh eyes on the case. There's a new DA named assistant DA name Michael Rorck. He didn't know shit about John Sandivall or anything about him. He said, I'd never heard of John Sandivall. I was in my second year of law school when Tina disappeared. I know it was a huge news story, but it never captured attention in Denver. He said, so the he wanted the family to know prosecution could still happen and they were still looking at this. And they so they present a bunch of shit to the family and said, at the end of the presentation, Rorck said, my thought was it's not going to get any better with waiting any longer. What are we waiting for? Yeah. So he said that he would have waited. If he was that other guy, the first, the old district attorney, he said, but the girl hadn't been missing long enough to really show a jury. It was much more than a missing person's case. But he said, I remember reviewing the PowerPoint and I wouldn't say there was no doubt, but I felt like they had the right guy and we just had to figure out a way to prove it. I was pretty confident, but at the same time, it was a terrifying proposition. Sure. To take him to trial and lose. So they said, let's try to put a case together against John and see what we got. So they said, as with any unsolved case, they go back to step one and look over all the evidence, because this is fresh eyes. So this Olsen who's been here the whole time pulled out notebooks and began flipping through the pages. He said, I knew we had to have missed something. Something is here and we haven't discovered it yet. The smoking guns, so to speak. Then he was looking at diagrams of evidence found in John's bathroom, his boots pile of his clothes, his glasses on the counter, and then he saw it. Noted right on the diagram as two separate numbers indicating two credit cards found in the drawer in the bathroom. They had forgotten that was there. That never came up as evidence. That's why they haven't brought her credit cards, her credit cards that he would have no access to. No reason to have those. No, so they said, I look and I see the evidence sheets that there's credit cards listed. I couldn't find anything mentioned about credit cards in the original report. Somebody completely missed it. They fucked up. What the fuck they fucked up and let this go. They said they were booked in and there was nothing saying they were found or that they were in Tina's name. They were just in a bag sitting over there. She said these credit cards of Tina's one and which she had just used three days before the homicide were in her possession. Yeah, he could not have gotten those credit cards from her unless it was on that night. Right. She had to have seen her because she had them three days before. And she hadn't been in any contact with John for 30 days. The cops said they're hidden in the bathroom vanity drawer. So that tells us he had them on him in the bathroom with muddy clothes and quickly hid them in the vanity. No one had found that in 1995. No one had seen the credit cards. That's a perfect example of why you keep going back. Oh shit. So they look at the clothes, the credit cards and they're looking at all this and they said John's t-shirt was drenched in perspiration. He'd been out in the middle of the night and it was 20 degrees outside. The perspiration marks were so heavy they left a ring of salt on the shirt. Oh, he'd been working his ass off. He said this is someone profusely perspiring to leave a white stain. You're exerting a lot of energy, whatever you're doing. And then their sand found in places where it normally wouldn't be his pockets in the hood of his sweatshirt. How does dirt get into the hood of your sweatshirt? Right. Because you're down below ground level throwing a shovel over your shoulder. That's how you're in a hole. Yep. Sand ultimately determined to come from a riverbed of some sort was found in the grommet of the flashlight as well as hidden in the crevices of John's clothes. They said in 1995, I don't think we put together where all the sand debris was like in his pockets or his hood. We didn't understand the significance. They fucked up a lot. No kidding. They said, also you can envision its dark outside. He's doing his work. He's got a flashlight around his neck. He's digging a grave. The glasses themselves with muddy spots don't mean anything. But if you put it all together, you can envision what sinister acts are occurring. He's digging in the ground. Muds coming up the rope around the flashlight was to hang it like a necklace on a rope. Yep. Wow. So work said when I got done reading everything, I was left with the very strong feeling that John sand of all killed her. If we can present everything to the jury that I just read in these reports, the jury will understand and get it. Yeah. He said several things stood out. Things like the background things we knew about him as peeping Tom activities. As panty sniffing. Yeah. We knew Tina had known for a few of those things. The fact that she just up in vanishes within whatever period of time after she meets with John and there's absolutely no trace. That was the most compelling fact to me. From everything we knew about Tina, her family and the investigation. She's got nothing. She's not going to do that. No one else has a motive. John has a strong motive based on his personality, his conduct and the time he had available. Then they said there was his behavior. He jumped out of a window when the cops arrived to talk to him about it. And then he wouldn't let him take pictures and try to get forensic evidence out from under his fingernails. This is not what a normal person does. So can they get an arrest warrant? They said getting one sign would be difficult because there's no physical evidence to speak on it. Nobody. No crime. He did. That's been the whole thing. Nobody no crime. They said that's why they haven't done anything. When reading an affidavit for a arrest on murder, judges are used to seeing a murder weapon, a crime scene, some physical evidence links to that links the defendant to the death of the victim, showing the victim's body, being able to explain to a judge how she died. How do we know it's a homicide? I thought getting that warrant would be more difficult than the preliminary hearing. He said at the preliminary hearing, we can argue the law to the judge and say here are all the other cases across the country where juries have convicted on nobody cases. We can't do that on a arrest warrant. We have to give the judge all the facts and we've got to hope the judge sees the big picture. Yeah. So they write up the warrant and cross their fingers. They're in contact with Vegas police where John's been living. They get the warrant. Really? They get it. That judge gives it to him. So they go down on June 18, 2009 to arrest him and lost Vegas. Okay. John sand of all left his house in the heart of Vegas in the early morning hours. Cameras from a local news station were rolling. The cops did everything. Um, that way, uh, yeah, they could do that. They said, John, do you remember us? And, um, he said no. And he said, I'm Brad Goldschmidt. This is Keith Olson. We're from the Grilly Police Department. You're under arrest for first degree murder of your wife there. So different demeanor this time. Uh, John now sits stilically in an interview room. Seems at ease. He eats a turkey sandwich at some sunships from the subway. Really? Oh, yeah. And assures him, you know, he talked freely with them about his sexual escapades through Vegas after they assured him they wouldn't use that against him. He told police that, that it seemed odd that he knew he was being held for a 14 year old murder in his hometown for which he always knew he was the main subject suspect. Yet he didn't ask one question about it. The next day, he said he told several stories through the years about checking in on the investigation every once in a while or even running into Tina in Colorado. But they said that convinced them even more he was guilty. Right. They said, you're, if you're the number one suspect in a murder and 14 years later, we show up at your house. Don't you immediately say I ran into her last year at a bar covered with tattoos? He says none of that. If we arrest you for first degree murder, you're going to sing. You're seeing it all wrong. Give it, uh, give me a second to explain. You know, hey, hold on a minute. I think you guys are fucking up here. Any normal person wouldn't sit need a turkey sandwich and talk about doing drugs and videotaping women in Vegas without asking about the murder. This is crazy. The shit he didn't Vegas, by the way, they found in his house. First of all, he's got giant portraits of Tina on his wall. What? In his bedroom, two different giant portraits of Tina and a slinky black dress. He's got up at his house, really, which is just weird. That's bizarre. Yeah. They go into his house. They found holy shit. They say this is one of the detectives. That's where the mother load came out. They said we took two, uh, he'd take two photos of Tina and about a hundred video tapes. John also kept his wedding album from his marriage with Tina. He said, I found his ID card from Ames. Whoa. That was 20 years ago. Wow. I found a check stub from one of his best friends. I took his house. Um, he loaded up a rental car and drove back to Colorado with all this crap. Um, anyway, John calls his mother in jail and says, I'm their baby now. Says I might as well take advantage of the free healthcare dental to the showers are hot. And the jail is clean. I want for nothing. They're not going to give you braces, man. They didn't take you out. I think I need to get some orthodontia done. And maybe some veneers, I'm not sure. Uh, police say they listen to every word John says in jail. By the way, conversations between him and his mother where they're trying to set up an alibi. Yeah. Saying, yeah, John said the sewer pipe in your backyard that I was working on. Did the city tell you to change that or because I broke it. We were doing it in the backyard that time. That's how I got so muddy. Yeah. Remember that she's like, oh, yeah. Totally. I remember that trying to call this the sewer alibi. Yeah. Um, then they get an unlikely tip here. Um, okay. There's interesting the night before Tina's disappearance. A guy said that John called him wanting some tranquilizers. No. He said, I have a buddy who got stuck with a knife and he can't go to the hospital. And he tranquilized him. Yeah. He said, I hadn't gotten any dealings with him like that in three months. He said that there was a lot of red flags here. Uh, John could have used the tranquilizers to knock Tina out. Mm hmm. And then killer like, you know, knives out style type shit. So John's cousin Jesse was at this guy's house when the phone call arrived about the tranquilizers. So they said, that's interesting. Um, they said, one made out the call from John on the 18th until you saw Jesse's reaction when I suggested the call happened. And he lit up or calling all the particulars that I didn't offer him. Another friend talks about how weird it was to go over there and he'd have fucking pictures of his ex wife up there. He said he thought that was weird. Cause I didn't, I don't have pictures of my ex on my fucking wall. I'll tell you how much. Uh, then they found a friend and colleague of Tina's name Madonna Uing, which is the most 80s name of all time. This is Patrick Uing married Madonna. Yeah. If she, if she'd gotten him instead of Rodman, totally. And, uh, this Madonna told the detective of tensions and Tina's marriage and her impressions of John's increasingly domestically violent behavior, such as once slamming Tina's head against a wall and choking her during an argument. That's the type of shit they need. Now there's the video tapes. They estimated there were thousands of tapings, one over another on many tapes capable of carrying four hours of footage, all edited almost expertly into what they called sexual mosaics of women. John had stalked an assault. They found a hundred plus video tapes in a box in his Las Vegas bedrooms. They said, found others atop his VCR summary even taped over training videos from Sam's globary work. He put a piece of tape over it and retape this. There would be a 30 minute sexual harassment tape from work. He'd steal it and dub it and, and dub his stalking footage over it. Wow. They said one of the tapes, Janelle Gross, and there's a bunch of tapes that play out like this. The camera's rolling when John spied a crying gross outside the Tau nightclub in the Venetian in Vegas. Are you okay? Quote, the shapely platinum blonde looked up to find a short man of average build, graying hair and dark eyes before her as she swiped at her alcohol induced tears. It is loosely hanging plaid shirt and Bermuda shorts. John walked toward the young co-ed as sandals flapping against his heels with each step. The constant humming dings of the slot machine in the background. An air of paternal confidence masked his true intent as he shifted the bag draped over his shoulder, ready to lend it, helping hand. John had gotten off from his new job as an apprentice optician at Sam's club earlier that day. And most nights he'd go out and doing this. Now this woman said she lost her credit cards on this outing. She came from California. So John told her that I'll drive you back to your hotel, the MGM grand a few blocks away. She got in his van, Jesus by 2000 something we don't know not to get this stranger van. And he's still got one. Yeah, that's what I mean. And she called her bank on her cell phone and all this. Her short skirt hiked up to her hips exposing her undergarments. And she talked on the phone. This is January 2007. He found avenues to slip his fingers alongside her her legs or hips as she as he moved about the vehicle. Want to come to my house and smoke a joint he asked as the handheld camera rolls while in his van, this increasingly overbearing man suddenly, suddenly maneuvered his camera to film beneath her skirt. Her underwear was pushed back on her legs that she sat on the leather seat. Um, by the way, she'll be a doctoral student later. She didn't know that this camera was on her. Once one time where her underwear is clearly visible, he put his hands underneath and felt her butt. She never said anything. That's what the detective said. I called her and she instantly remembered that night and John and she didn't like him. She was stunned at the revelations that this happened. She said he was a fricking weirdo. Yeah. She said he parked in the back of the hotel, which she, she found unsettling and odd. Yeah. And weird. Um, the next day, she said, she found her credit cards, which she had misplaced, but also she had John blowing up her phone, calling her incessantly trying to arrange a meeting. She declined. She said, no, that was sober. I was like, I'm not fucking talking to this. Gasol. So they said the purpose of the in watching these videos is to see if a crime commit is committed. One tape, I'll go through this real quickly, stocked a woman through her hotel as she went to her room based on his Google searches and the advertising and everything around the music playing this detective figured out it was 2008. This video is made in the video. He stalks her to her room. She's in a slinky red dress with silver or white trim barely covering herself there. You know, small dress. She walked up the stairs into elevators. She didn't fully close her room door. Okay. So later he went back to the room using the infrared light on his camera to maneuver through the room filled with three sleeping women and two. What? He crept through the room, film the other two women in the room before turning back to the first woman. Oh my God. You see his face appear among a collage of white rumpled blankets. Camer flashes to his own face. He taped himself pulling back the covers, rubbing her vagina and removing her underwear. Oh my God. He then digitally penetrated the woman and stood over her and masturbated. Oh my God. He caught this and she was asleep when he did it. A sleep. So the cop said, once I saw the rape, I went all the way back in the review. She had a white or silver hem that glowed in the lights. He tracked her through the cab line all the way up the stairs to the elevators. I went through that tape 30 times. He found her outside. Wow. He said it's a lot of, they said he'd end his nights by hitting up a whore and bringing her back home. That's the detective talking. It seems like he gets sexually frustrated after all the filming. There was literally a time when he's picking up a prostitute and he's picking through quarters. John negotiates a $300 price down to $100. It's comical if it isn't sad. Geez. Christ. John would have all his paid women slip into a set of stockings and black high heels. He'd pull from beneath a dresser. That's what he wanted. That's what he was into. So they're going to go to trial. Really? Does he know they have these tapes? Yeah, they're in his house. He knows it. Yeah. There's this is the defense. Okay. Quote, this is a first degree murder prosecution without a body without any blood. He starts singing. Nobody. No crime without any DNA without any fingerprints. There's no time and death, no cause of death, no murder weapon. The time has passed since Tina's disappearance. In 2009, John sand evolve was finally arrested after tunnel vision investigation. Yet none of the evidence has changed. The only thing that's changed is the passage as the passage of time. John is still the convenient suspect. The prosecution has based this case on suspicion and convenience, but not on proof. Be on a reasonable doubt. What's important to remember about the people statements is not what they tell you on the stand, but what they told police in 1995 when they were concerned with Tina still being missing when memories were still fresh in their minds and how they perceive the relationship. No one will tell you John was violent toward her. She never called 911 for a domestic disturbance and she never told anyone. John was abusing her in any fashion. They didn't get cell phone records. They didn't pursue all avenues. They said that the police never investigated where there was two men that had relationships, one with her and one with her cousin and, you know, where are they? Where's Jesse, who she had an affair with? They said that despite evidence of some unknown male found on her cell phone and wallet, which were locked in her car after she disappeared, police continued to overlook potential suspects. They said, what is of importance is what we found on her cell phone and wallet, which were in her glove compartment on the outside is male DNA. Okay. And John Sandivall was excluded from that DNA. Some unknown males DNA, one or two males to this day. It's unknown who touched these items and put them in her glove compartment. Does it matter? She, he's got her credit cards. He's got her credit cards. He's got money. Shit. He's got a wet shovel at five in the fucking morning. It's crazy. Enough for me. You're in cuffs at that moment. We'll figure out evidence later. And you tell it. Anybody in here ever have a wet shovel at five in the morning in the car. No. Okay. They talked. So the witnesses are the cops, the sister, Tina sister, who made her promise to call. And she said, I was concerned at 1230, but things can happen. And maybe something held her up. I was very afraid as the day wore on and we were going into the evening. And there was no word from her at all. So that's the other thing. She said, at one point, the last time she spoke to her daughter, this is the mother, was a week before her disappearance. She said, we made some light conversation. She said, how are you and dad doing with your bills? And I said, same as always, we're going week to week and using one fund to pay another. And she didn't say anything else. I know she was going to ask me for money at the time. I didn't think it was significant. I didn't know that she needed money. Keith Olson, one of the investigators here who's now with the district attorney's office, said that you talked all about the police shit said finding talked about finding Tina's car, four blocks from his house. That's another thing. You know, all of that shit, a nurse friend of Tina's two named Jane Storm, tried to convince Tina not to meet her husband in private as she had planned to do. So I remember her watching her walk down the hallway and having some concern for her. I remember her leaving the floor because of the conversations we had and the concern I had for her. I just had a not very good feeling watching her walk down the hallway. So let's see here. He is found guilty. Oh, guilty of this crime. He went through trial. I mean, he got her credit cards, man. Yeah, he got her credit cards. That's a lot. So he is found guilty here. Okay. Which is terrific. Good. That's excellent here. So he is going to be sentenced. You, sir, may fuck off. They give him life, but it's the life that you get where you get parole and shit. Okay. Life with. Then in March, 2016, by the way, it's still in the Fountaine. No, Tina. That's coming. We will find Tina March 2016. He appeals really. The court ruled that the introduction of prior acts of stalking other women as well as domestic violence experts correlating stalkers with murderers, that's enough to reverse the conviction overturned. What in the fuck over fucking turn? So and the prosecutor said because that jury found him guilty, doesn't necessarily correlate with a new jury looking at it the same way. That's a gamble. So 2016, they say we're going to retry him. Fuck it. John finally says for reduced sentence, I'll tell you where she is. Yeah, we'll take it. Yeah. I'll tell you where she is. Okay. So they said that we ultimately came to the conclusion that we would offer. We would extend an offer of plead guilty to second degree murder, because it was crucial to us that he had to stand up in court in front of the public and admit that he was in fact the murderer of Tina. In exchange for that guilty plea, there was an agreement he would serve 25 years in the Department of Corrections. So the family said their first objective was fine teen his body. Who cares? Yeah. Well, I don't care what he does. So they said it's like you were gambling with the devil because we know he would only do it to gain something. So where is she? Where did he? What did he do? The sunset memorial garden cemetery is where he buried her. The one where he where he was. The one where they've searched multiple times. The one that he worked at and the one of that guy said he helped him bury. He said he dug a grave further by two feet and buried Tina under a World War II veteran who died. Oh, old old person. So they found she was found. So he's a great that was open. He said he found an open grave site. And it was scheduled for burial. He dug two feet below the open grave and buried the body there. Well, well down for the word they would have looked. Eight feet and eight feet and he was wrapped in several layers of industrial plastic. The afternoon burial continued as planned and she was under the vault. That's how it went. They put the thing on after her. Man, I'll bet you that's where that viral tweet came from. Somebody heard this and wrote that. If you have a murder somebody buried underneath a grave and then the dogs will always hit there. Exactly. So I mean, it's a good plan. They got it. They never found it. Fuck no. They never found her. Never. So but that was that came out. This was only 2017. They found her. So the prosecutor said for 7,826 days, three hours and 22 minutes, the location of Tina's remains have remained a mystery. One that's haunted her family, investigators and everybody else and goes on to say, now she can finally be laid to rest. And a statement Tina's family said, you might wonder what's it like to be asked to weigh in on a plea offer in exchange for knowing where the body of your loved one was tossed aside. They said this they were all in agreement on this. So you sir, they fuck off again 25 years in prison. He'll receive credit for the time he's already served in jail and could be eligible for release as early as 2028. Not a chance, right? Very soon he will serve five years of parole after his release. I would think not. February 23rd, 2017, Jesse dies at 52. Cause Jesse. That's young. Completely natural death they said. 2020, they're talking about him being up for parole. They said he's eligible for parole in 2020. They did some wrong math and it was 2020. The detective testifying in front of the parole board said he's a career criminal. He has a lifelong felonies, one of the worst criminals I've ever dealt with. We had no body. We had no scene. We had no witnesses, no confession. We had nothing. She vanished. He never came out and said, this is what happened. This is how Tina was murdered. Or this is why I chose this disposal site. I think this case is unlike any that's ever been prosecuted in this country. In this whole country says world maybe. So his next parole hearing is scheduled for 2026 this year. What the fuck? Tina's family said we're working as a family to try to keep him put away. He gets good behavior when he's in prison. Cause there's no women in prison. And that's his favorite thing collecting women. That's got to be awful for him. Yep. So Tina is finally buried in a good way and lake view cemetery in Windsor and Weld County. The book that we got a lot of this out of. They did a very good reporting from all the police reports and everything. In Tina's shadow, a true story of murder, a husband's guilt and a family's 14 year vigil for justice. You can see why we couldn't give you that title in the beginning. You'd know what happened by Sharon are done. So there you go, everybody. That's really Colorado. We're running way late. I got to hit this up real quick. Definitely shut up and give me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. Nashville February 21st, your first up March 6th. Endura March 7th in Atlanta. Get in there. Get your tickets right now for those. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. $5 a month or above. Get your huge back catalog. New stuff every other week, including this week. You get all the everything. But for small town murder, we're going to do the Dean Coral thing. Henley is a little partner and that's kind of a crazy. That's a wild story. We'll get into what happened to this kid who was clearly forced to do a lot of crazy shit. So we'll do that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get it at free. All on every show we put out at free. And you get a shout out Jimmy. Himmy with the names of the people who would never bury us below a World War 2 veteran. Himmy right now. This week's executive producers are Claude Cavallo. I'm going to call him Claude Muscleman. Claude Muscleman. Claude Muscleman. He's hanging out with the criteria. Claude Muscleman was not the guy in the... Claude Muscleman buried in the yard. She's got the last word. You're an angel for having the last words real important around here. Claude's a good man. Gary Howard in Oklahoma City. Get the fuck out of there. Hope you're doing well, Gary. Lisa Stevens Amber Lounds, Elena Zemel, and Neil Pauling. You guys are the best. Thank you for everything you're doing. You beautiful bastards. Other producers this week. Peyton Meadows, Joanne Tinkler, Janet Hill, Willie Gotenbutt, Goethe Mutton. I don't know what he's doing there. I don't know. He's trying to get me to say something filthy. I'm about to get in the goat butt. You got to make it much easier than that man. Ryan Bender, Steffi Handpie. All right, that's a real name. Theo Rust, Holly Norman, Lane C. Melanie would know last name. Dean McAnulty, Jocelyn Rangel, Jared Warren, Meredith Dixon, Courtney Harvey, Talia L. Shelby Nicole, Cindy Adams, Quinn Six, Nicky's Kid, Caitlin would know last name. Megan would know last name. April L. Laura Claire, Roswell McIntosh, Hank Nittartis, Boy, okay. Troy Hill, Josh User, Su-Z-C, S-I-S-I-Ting, Ty, is that what that is? T-I-G-H-E? Is that Ty? Warner? It's got it. TIG. TIG. TIG. TIG. TIG. Dan would know last name. Killham Ahmed. Thank you. 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