Week 15 (Days 099-105): How should I treat my enemies?

Hey Bible readers! Welcome to TBR Deep Dive. I'm Kirsten McCloskey. I'm Emma Daughter. And today we have a special guest, Elby. Thank you, special guest, yes. Good to have you back. It's fun to have you back. Excited to have you back. For anyone who maybe is just popping in on this episode, Elby's been with us a few times before, but quickly just will you introduce yourself again? Yes. I work with all the things TBR and specifically in the IsraelX division. So I run our Israel trips. I also help out with our D-group curriculum. And I just get to jump around a lot, which really is fun for me. That's awesome. We are thankful for all of the work that you do. Well, I'm stoked to get to talk about the Bible. It's my favorite thing. Awesome. Well, thanks for being with us today. Let's go ahead and get started with our first question. Let's do it. This is more of a general question, but coming from day 102. So the question is, can you recommend a resource for Bible timelines? While I'm reading, things seem to happen days apart, but I realized that years may be passing. For instance, I was always taught David was a boy when he killed Goliath. But prior to that, Jonathan led a battle. Was there a big gap between them? So we got a couple things going on here in this question, but Bible timelines, what's going on? Resources. Resources. Give the people what they want. This is a super common struggle for a lot of people. So I'm really glad we're answering this question. I think one of the best resources is a good study Bible. I like the ESV study Bible because they give excellent timelines. And the person asking this question is right because the biblical narrative often jumps across even years or decades. Totally. Without announcing it. So as the reader, it helps the TBR is chronological, but we're not always aware of how much time is passing, especially when they use different names for their months. Well, and this book is a really great example of that because from the beginning of First Samuel, they're asking for a king and then they have Saul and then Saul has David in his house, but then he doesn't know who David is when he fights Goliath. But then he's now his son-in-law. Yeah, acted out for us. So it really does. It jumps the span of time all in just chapter after chapter without really getting into it. So I think a study, for me, I am a visual person when I'm doing stuff like this. To understand like a timeline, I've got to see it. Yeah. Layed out. In a good study Bible, you're probably going to find a timeline that's going to show you when kings ruled, overlapping ministries. There's some timelines where you see each event or period stacked on top of each other, key battles you might find approximate ages of people from the stories and how long these gaps were. So when we look at David and Jonathan, they actually weren't close in age. They were not close in age. Jonathan at this point was already a seasoned warrior for a long time before he and David connect. He led battles in 1 Samuel 13 and 14. And at that time, David was years away from entering the story. So when David kills Goliath, he's a teenager. And Jonathan's probably in his 30s, maybe even his early 40s. So we're looking at a 10 to 25 year age gap. And their friendship is actually surprising because of that age gap. That's precisely why it's surprising. So the bond that they share, it becomes even more significant when you realize that Jonathan wasn't a peer to peer mentor. There was a big discrepancy yet they were close friends, not just one sided friend, but both of them viewed each other as close friends. Yeah, we don't see that. We don't see that in visuals. We don't see it like when our brains go there in our imaginations, we see two dudes out of the same age. So I think it's really helpful. And I actually have never really thought about the age gap, like ever. And so when I was doing prep for this, I was like, Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it really does reframe how we'll look at their friendship later. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And another suggestion for a resource. I really appreciated the Bible Hub timeline. So it actually even gives approximate years for specific chapters of the Bible. And so you can just Google Bible Hub timeline. That would be a great resource. Also got questions is another one of our favorite resources all the time. Yeah. And that has a more general timeline, which could be helpful. And I think one thing to kind of just be clear about is that some people can get really particular about, okay, these are the exact dates and it has to be this. And I don't always know. Right. I think I would just say a timeline is such a helpful resource. And I also am very visual and seeing where the kings are, where the prophets are, especially when things get a little bit overlapping in the middle. There's so many people on thrones and leaving thrones and prophets. But we do just want to be clear that we don't, the important thing is not the exact specific date necessarily. It's understanding kind of what came first, what came next. And just helping yourself be oriented in the text where we are. And so if the timelines feel fuzzy, like you might be a more visual person, but somebody might look at a timeline and be like, just overwhelmed by it. Yeah. This is a lot. And that's okay too. Yeah. The Bible wasn't written in a strict chronological format. It's more like a library than a timeline. And the individual narratives often are focusing on the points of theological emphasis rather than a timestamp accuracy. Right. And that's, I think, really important too, because if we're trying to make it fit into, like, well, of course they would have written this with, in the way that we kind of view chronology. Chronology. Yes. Nailed it. That's kind of more of a Western view of things. And that wasn't really necessarily their mindset. So it's important to recognize that when we're coming to Scripture, to kind of get a sense that, well, maybe this Gospel writer was doing something else versus just a straight recording of Jesus's ministry. Or the history, or especially in the Old Testament, where it's, yeah, and I think sometimes we can, we like it to be very neat. We like it to fit in a perfect box. And it doesn't. That's a lot of things about our faith that don't always fit. Don't always fit in the box. Amen to that. I think that's important. And Jonathan and David's friendship is unique. It's a great example of that. For sure. So our next question, it's actually about them. Let's go. Nice. It comes from day 103. And it's really more of a general question. But the question reads, can you talk more about the friendship between David and Jonathan? I've heard some perspectives suggest that it has been misconstrued over time. What's going on there? So what I see in David and Jonathan's friendship is an example of mutual admiration and like-mindedness in the way that both of them desire to follow the Lord. And so I think we've seen kind of more recently people have taken these passages about David and Jonathan's friendship and insinuated that there was a homosexual relationship taking place. And this is not the case of what's going on. I think people have sometimes read into the text to reach that conclusion. And likely they haven't necessarily done the work to understand the text in their context. And so these people have taken, I think, in many ways their own worldview and put that onto the text. And that's not how we are trying to read the Bible. Yes, because those are very modern conclusions. Those don't date back super far. They're recent ideas. And anytime we encounter new theology, if you're not watching the podcast and you're listening, I'm doing quotes with my hands. But anytime we encounter a new theological idea that hasn't been believed by faithful believers for many, many years, a red flag should go up. Yeah, or at least a yellow flag that goes, hey, let's look at this in its context. And let's see. So one of the things that I have said for years is that I always want to make sure and bend my life to scripture. I don't want to bend scripture to my life because I'll mess it up. It's already great. But that's super important as we do this. And so I think the temptation to take something like this and to bend it to something that makes sense to us or something we would want to make sense is easy. It's an easy temptation. Yeah. And so the big seminary words for kind of what we're talking about here are exegesis versus isegesis. Can you spell those? So exegesis is when we see what the text has to say. And that's what we're trying to do with TBR. That's what we're trying to do in this podcast as we're bringing more context to these questions and figuring out what's really going on in this verse or in this section of scripture. We're really pulling out of the text in exegesis. We're saying here's the text we're going to pull from it what it means. Yes. And then isegesis is when someone takes their own theme or their own thoughts or their own context and just puts them on scripture and basically tries to kind of overlay them with their own cultural understandings or our own values. And so that is not what we want to do. So exegesis is good. Isegesis we're putting in the bad category. We don't want to we don't want to be doing that because I think I think what that also can do for us sometimes is that's that's where it makes the Bible more about us. Yeah. And oftentimes we do this on accident when we're trying to apply something. Yeah. So I do kind of want to be clear about that. It's not when I say like isegesis is bad. I'm not please don't be shamed by that or in any way. We all do this whether we realize it or not. We're just trying to do it less and less and less as we become better students of the Bible and students of God's word. Yeah. That's a really helpful distinction. It's a helpful distinction. So then when we look at this text and we're going to approach it properly and avoid the isegesis. Yeah. What I noticed is I studied was that the language used to describe Jonathan and David's relationship was not homosexual relationship. The Hebrew word for love here is covenant language not romantic language. Yeah. So it's the same word that's used to describe love between family members or loyal allies. But it's also the same word for love that God shows his people when he keeps his promises. And so that was really helpful to look at the language and say, OK, the Bible makes it kind of nice for us that there's different words for love and they're all attributed to different different things. And so that slow study is really helpful. And then we also notice if we look at the context of their relationship this bond that they share David and Jonathan is built around God's calling not physical attraction. Everything that draws them together is out of obedience to who God has said that David is and what God has said is best. It's not sneaking away to get intimate time together for the sake of intimate time together. It's about an allegiance to God. And really both of these men that's it. Yes. It for them. They they want to honor the Lord with their whole lives to the point where they make this covenant with one another that basically is like, I'm going to treat you like my brother. Yeah. And Jonathan is really initiates this. We see it, which is cool because we know he was the older one. Yeah. So there's kind of this older brother mentality of, Hey, David, I know you have six other brothers or seven other brothers or whatever, but I for the purposes of faith and what God is calling you to and what God is calling me to, we're we are brothers and we see Jonathan care for David in that loving older brother way time and time and time again. Yeah. But it's also cool because Jonathan recognized that God's hand was on David in a unique way. Jonathan recognized, Hey, this guy supposed to be the next king, which is really interesting because who was Jonathan's dad? Right. The current king was supposed to be the next king. If it's logical and human, Jonathan's the next king, but instead he's like, I know my place. And God says something different will be true. David will be king, not me. I know. And it really shows. I feel like when we read into this relationship, something that isn't there, we actually miss so much. So much. That's beautiful. Beautiful. Right. Because this is a picture of loyalty, not only to each other, but it's, or I would say it's a picture of loyalty to each other because of their loyalty to God. Yeah. And I think that that is something that Christians today, like I want to think about that a little bit more and consider how my relationship with my Christian brothers and sisters is marked by my desire to see God's plans fulfilled in the world and how partnering with one another and loving one another can really glorify God. In the New Testament, we talk about the body metaphor. Yeah. That we are, we are part of each other. And this to me feels like that. Yeah. It feels like a precursor to that body. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, really just the ancient culture at this point, they, their friendships were deeply emotional and expressive in a way that today we don't really see that with same gender friendships, maybe children, but definitely not adults. And so that's a, maybe something we can learn from these individuals who lived in a real place at a real time. Their friendships looks different than ours. And they were much more expressive. And am I expressing my appreciation for my friends today? Yeah. I appreciate you. I mean, I do. But not only. I appreciate you even more. Thank you. Well, there's a, there's a meme that I, Even more. I'm so sorry. She didn't even notice it. I'm sorry. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't mean to cause a rift here. Yeah. There's a meme that I really like that says like, tell your friends how much they mean to you. Make it weird. Well, I live by that. Yeah. Yeah. Another reason why we can conclude that it's probably not a homosexual relationship is because the Bible isn't shy about exposing sin. 100%. There are plenty of stories all throughout the Old Testament, even in the New Testament, where we, we, where we read about sin being fully acknowledged and dealt with, not necessarily endorsed, not ever endorsed, but it's, it's not brushed under the rug. It's confronted. And so it would be really inconsistent if this were to be a sinful relationship that wasn't being addressed and in fact was almost being presented in a favorable light. That's not consistent with how we see God act. Yeah. Well, I love that this is a relationship that because God is the center, their friendship is so committed and so deep. I think it's really cool picture of what it could look like to follow the Lord, like you've said. But we've talked a lot about Jonathan. He was older. He uniquely cheered David on. But let's talk about David for a minute. This next question comes from day 101 and the specific verse it comes from is 1 Samuel 13, 14. So Kirsten, why don't I kick it to you? Yeah. So our question coming from day 101 is what does it mean to be a man after God's own heart? And so this comes from 1 Samuel 13, 14, which says, but now your kingdom shall not continue. The Lord has sought out a man after his own heart and the Lord has commanded him to be prince over his people because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you. So this is Saul being reprimanded. And now we're hearing that David, which is the man after God's own heart, is going to take his place. So what does it mean? It means wanting what God wants, desiring the things God desires. David wasn't chosen because he was impressive or perfect. That's a key distinction. He was chosen because he leaned toward or leaned into God's will and God's heart. So even when David didn't understand what God was doing, he kept aiming his life in God's direction instead of trying to build his own kingdom for himself. But he didn't do it perfectly. Correct. And we do want to be clear about what he meant. David was not perfect. So what does it mean to be a man after God's own heart when you're a fallen person, like all the rest of humanity? It means returning to God quickly. Quickly. David's greatness wasn't that he avoided sin. It was that he responded to conviction. That's a really key difference. When he failed, he didn't harden or hide, though maybe momentarily with Bathsheba, he tried to cover it up a little bit. But ultimately, he humbled himself. He confessed honestly. And in his sin, he ran to God rather than away from God, which is a great example for us today. Can I do a really brief rabbit trail here? Yeah, please. I'll let you bring it back. You rabbit trail and I'll see how I can get us back. I think at the beginning of First Samuel, so beginning of this week's reading, so this is still this within this week, Israel did not have a king. They wanted a king. Right. Why did they want a king? To be like everybody else. They wanted a king because everyone else around them had a king. And God's like, I am your king. And they're like, no, no, we want a king that leads us into battles and stuff. He's like, I lead you into battles and stuff. And they're like, no, no, we want a physical human. And God's like, okay, I'll give you a physical human. You won't like it, but I'll give it to you. And so God has given them this thing and this person that he is supposed to be for this nation. And so I think it's so interesting that they get this king that is after God's own heart that can reflect and point these people back to the one who ultimately wants to be their king. And so this idea of keeping short accounts of recognizing failure, of confessing sin, of being teachable, I think of the conversations he had with Nathan. I think those are all accurate. And I'm so, as I was studying this, just sort of humbled by, oh yeah, they weren't even supposed to have a human king. They were, God was supposed to be their king. But God gave them someone who was after his own heart in order to lead them, which is just a really neat picture of the Lord and kind. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, so this, this comes up again in Acts 1322. So where Paul is kind of recapping the story of the Old Testament, he references David as a man after God's own heart. And what he says there, I'll read Acts 1322 for us, says, God raised up David to be their king of whom he testified and said, I have found in David the son of Jesse, a man after my heart who will do all my will. And so I think that's a really helpful caveat to that phrase that Paul brings in, that David was set on doing God's will. And that's, I mean, again, what you were talking about at the beginning, that is the distinguishing mark. The aim of his life. Yeah, of what it means to be a God, a man after God's own heart. It's loving what God loves and doing what God loves. So it was about knowing his laws, knowing the Lord's ways, obeying them. And in general, we do see this as the trajectory of David's life. Again, he is not perfect. We need to be so clear about that. But none of us are. And we're not excusing in any way what he did. No. But it's the reality that as people after God's own heart, we are still going to trip and fall on this road that we're on. But we're going to get back up. We got scrapes on our knees, you know, maybe we sprained our wrist or whatever. But we're still going to keep moving forward towards God and wanting to do what God says to draw near to him, ultimately. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's all I got. I love it. You got anything else? I mean, I could talk for days, but I think it also goes back to David and Jonathan. We know like because of his drive and their friendship was about the Lord. We see this again. David's love about the Lord. We read the Psalms. My gosh, the Psalms. So even Psalm David writes, you know, you see the war within himself sometimes about wanting to honor the Lord, but his flesh and. But also in the Psalms, we see his desire for God's presence. Right. He wants to draw near. Yeah, it wasn't. But it wasn't just that David wanted to be this amazing leader, though I'm sure he did. He wanted to do a good job, but he primarily just wanted to be near to God. Yes. I want that. Same. I want to want that. I want to want that more and more frequently and I want at a greater level. Question four comes from day 103. And it specifically comes from Psalm 59, 12 through 13, which reads, for the sin of their mouths, the words of their lips, let them be trapped in their pride for the cursing and lies that they utter, consume them in wrath, consume them till they are no more, that they may know that God rules over Jacob to the ends of the earth. So our question, I'm having a hard time reconciling Jesus's teaching to love our enemies with the language of some of the Psalms. Makes sense. Especially when David is mad at his enemies and says things like consume them in wrath. Is this an Old Testament versus New Testament thing? I think there's a temptation to see God as two different gods, God of the Old Testament, God of the New Testament. But I think you would disagree with that. I think we would all disagree with that. We would all disagree with that. But yes, I disagree too. I think definitely disagree. For the record. I would say, I think, so referencing Jesus's teaching from the Sermon on the Mount, so loving your enemies, Jesus is calling people higher. And in that sense, we see that Jesus is taking these Old Testament teachings and intensifying them. He's calling for an even greater standard of holiness and perfection for his people. But these are not irreconcilable. So no, it's not a New Testament versus Old Testament thing. And I think what's going on with the Psalms is that part of what they're doing is giving God's people a way to express themselves. It's a way to communicate with God in a very broken and messed up world where these people are and how they feel about what's going on. And I think also the reality of God, you promised us this and that's not what's happening right now. And I'm confused. And I do feel like I have enemies. So I think that's an important aspect. Yeah. I think the self-expression component is really critical because it's two different kinds of prayers for two different kinds of situations. So we're seeing David's prayers as honest cries for God's justice, not personal revenge. That's different. He's seeking God's justice. So when David asked God to judge evil, he's choosing not to take matters into his own hands and saying, God, I entrust this situation to you. Please, you deal with it. I'm not going to. And that's a great lesson for us today. Yes. And it fits with Jesus' teaching. Because Jesus says, don't retaliate. Turn the other cheek. And David isn't retaliating. He's praying. I mean, that is exactly true. I think that's where that disconnect is. I think sometimes in our brains, we're like, well, he's saying to kill him. Well, in those times, vengeance would have been taken by killing those people. So we're looking at a different cultural expression, different cultural understanding, but also some very real emotions in God. I think that God's shoulders are big enough for us to beat on his chest and to say the things that oh, maybe that's not appropriate to say, but Lord, it's what's in my heart and how I'm feeling. And so you either need to correct the way I'm thinking or redirect me. And he's big enough to hear the like, why? Like, what is this? Yeah. And I appreciate that. Yeah. And I do think a lot of this is about asking God for justice. Yes. If we're zooming out a little bit more. And we want to keep in mind that the enemies of the people of God were the enemies of God himself. Yes. Right. Do you feel like that's that? That makes sense? That's a very fair thing to say. And so they were against God, against his people, against God's ways. And so sometimes what the psalmist are crying out for is for God to be glorified, for God to be known, for God's justice to be seen in these situations that are so clearly wrong. And so I think there does feel like there's a tension. Jesus says that we need to pray for those that persecute us. And also we need to be people that desire justice. And so I think it can feel hard to hold both of those, but we have to. Yeah. The Psalms give us language for how to respond to our suffering in a broken world. So David is often running for his life or betrayed or hunted or slandered. And so his prayers are coming from this place of really deep pain. And God allows those raw emotions in scripture and in us. And he's showing us, hey, it's okay when you're desiring justice to bring those deep and passionate desires to the Lord and to the Lord very honestly and frankly, we don't have to sanitize or clean up our prayers. We can be honest with God about how we're feeling and what we're desiring. And so if it's a deep cry for justice, God wants to hear that from us because he is a God of justice. And then when Jesus says, hey, love your enemies, that's about how we respond to other people, not about how we pray. Now it can inform our prayers, but he's talking about our response. Our response doesn't erase God as a righteous judge. He's still, even if your enemy hurts you, they're still going to have to give an account before judge, whether I love them or not. Like God is going to have to deal with that. But loving our enemies means we don't take revenge, we forgive, we pray for them, and we trust God with justice. We ask God to act rather than acting ourselves. I think it's so helpful. And I think anytime we can reconcile God as being the same yesterday, today and forever, I think it does us good. It's good for us. And so Emma, I love what you said about the Psalms give us a language for suffering in a broken world. I think that is, it's God's heart for us too. And I think we see the consistency and the theme of God's love for us even in what feels heavy and broken. Well, speaking of heavy and broken, we've got a question on sin. Yes. Oh, good. Kirsten, take it away. Take it away. All right. This question comes from day 100, specifically 1 Samuel 12, 20 and 22. So I'll go ahead and read the question first, then I'll read the verse. So I know God forgives the Israelites of their sin, but I'm finding it hard to believe he's forgiving mine. I keep messing up. In 1 Samuel 12, 20, Samuel said to the people, do not be afraid. You have done all this evil, yet do not turn aside from following the Lord, but serve the Lord with all your heart. For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name's sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself. Such a good question. God's forgiveness isn't based on how consistent we are. It's based on how committed he is. So when Samuel tells Israel, don't be afraid, you've done all this evil, he's not minimizing their sin. Yeah, exactly. He's reminding them that their failure isn't the end of the story and the same is true for us. God's forgiveness flows from his consistent character, not our performance, or how we're measuring up. We're always going to fall short, even on our best days. God forgives us because he is merciful, not because we're perfect. Right. Because we're not. We're not. That's good. And I think too, even though it's hard, part of this is we have to believe the truth that God forgives us even when we don't feel like he does, or maybe when we feel distant from God, or God feels distant from us, kind of however you're experiencing that, but we got to believe and cling to that truth. And I would say for this question, which is such a vulnerable question, but my question back would be, well, why do you know that God forgives the Israelites? So why are you settled in that? But you don't feel like you can know that God forgives you. So what's the difference that this individual or anyone out there who's kind of struggling with something like this, what's the difference they're seeing? What's the lie that we're believing in thinking that God's forgiveness would only go as far as the Israelites, or only go as far as maybe other people in my church, but wouldn't include me? Well, in our repeated struggle, or maybe it's not even a repeated struggle in the same area, but our consistent ability to fall short reveals how much we need God's forgiveness. And he desires to give it to us. That's his nature, to desire to meet us there. So becoming aware of our sin in how short we fall is actually a good thing in a lot of ways. It's a really good thing. Yeah. And I think the feeling is valid. Like, feelings are just responses to something we're believing or thinking. And so the feeling might be valid. But what truth then do we need to speak to our feelings? Like, when I feel that shameful thought, I should be better than this. I should be over this by now. I don't measure up. I hate shoulds. But yes. But no, that's the lie. That's the lie for me. Yes. What then do I do instead? Right. The truth then that we need to claim is praise God that the covenant in Christ that we have is dependent on Christ alone and on God alone, not on us. That is everything about what God did is not dependent on me. And I'm so thankful, so thankful for that. And so sometimes I have to remind myself, hey, you're beating yourself up over this. What's really going on? What are you missing? What are you not seeing about what God has done? And just get back to the foot of the cross. Get back to the foot of the cross. Get back to the foot of the cross. Yeah. Yeah. And we've said before, God is not expecting perfection from us. What God desires is humility and repentance. And this means that he doesn't expect that we're never going to sin again. That's not the reality. But he calls us to be quick to acknowledge when we've sinned and to quickly repent and ask for forgiveness. And I think even we've seen that already today as we've talked about David's story. Yeah, we get back to the man's own heart. Yeah. Where it's God's own heart. Right. That's such a great place where David, so blinded by what he's done, then is willing and ready to receive that rebuke and that correction from Nathan and then respond quickly to that. And so it's, and I think really it's God's love that changes us. And the reality and the truth that God loves you, even when you're sinning, even when you're disobeying, we have to believe that because that is, that is the gospel. Yep. I'm really actually grateful that Israel is forgiven as many times as they are. Yes. We're so much more like them than we want to think. And I am so quick to think, oh, I would never, oh, I would never, but even with this question of, okay, I know God forgives them, but not me. I think they are the, they're the picture that, that gives us hope for, for our redemption. Yes. Yes. Yep. And I, I'm so grateful for, for God's demonstration of that. And not only that he demonstrated it to them, but he gave it to us in a, in a book so that we would also get to know what he did for them. And we can know that, that he's going to do that for us. Yeah. And I think so maybe to kind of close us out. So let me give two practical suggestions of verses to meditate on if this is a hard thing for somebody. So the, the first one is from 1st John 410. And the verse is, this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. So your sins, our sins past, present and future have all been dealt with because of Jesus's great love for you and for me and for Elbi and for Emma and his sacrifice on our behalf. So this would be a great truth to memorize. And then another one coming from Psalm 5110. So David's words, created me a clean heart, oh God, and renew a right spirit within me. So I think this would be a great verse to bring before the Lord and say, I am struggling in this area. Help me stop sinning. Turn my heart towards you, Lord. Yeah. So I think praying and meditating on that would also be a great, great. Those are great verses letting scripture speak to you and speak truth to you. It's one of the best ways to get through things that you're struggling with, with doubt or shame or confusion or fear. Great closing thoughts, Kirsten. Those are awesome. Thanks for taking a deep dive with us and we'll see you next week as we continue to read, understand and love the Bible and the God who wrote it.