Chris Robinson of The Black Crowes

I've said it, but you know, my dear friend, Todd Schneider, who's a singer-songwriter, passed away at the end of last year in a very tragic, tragic fashion. And this record will always have a certain poignancy for me because he was a real singer-songwriter, a real folk hero, a real weirdo man in the best way. And Todd and I had a relationship revolving around poetry that I don't have with a lot of people. But he was like, can I come down to the studio a couple days? And I was like, yeah, man. He was just like, how do you guys communicate without saying anything? It's like weird. It's like, is this ESP? Is this magic? What is it? And I'm like, because we work, my brother's more put together. So Richie, you know, when we come up, but I'm like not put together. So I'm like, dude, that, and I'm for a whole life. He's like, this is the chorus. I'm like, that's the verse. And that intro, that's the chorus. You know what I mean? So I'm arranging stuff. And Rich is trying to keep up with me. Also, he's got his thing, but we work really quickly. And I'm sure it's the same with your brother. After a long time, we don't have to talk. I can just be like, and he knows, or he can do something. Exactly. And we don't have, and it just starts to like go and go and build and build. And yeah, so eight days later, we were kind of finished. And I was teasing with Jay Joyce, our producer. He was like, well, that's it. And I was like, you want us to come on Monday, we'll make another one. You know? It was like that kind of vibe. You know? And I have to say that I've sat in studios now since the eighties with my brother. And I've done thousands of concerts with him. This is hands down to me, the most spectacular music that he's played. The guitar stuff he was doing, the solo. I was just like, wow, man, to me, this record is really rich as master piece. Living LA, right? I've been here forever. Yeah, me too. Well, I mean, I was in New York, then I'd move back, and then I was in Marin County for a little while. Oh yeah, that's nice. And then we were in Telluride for a while. My wife's from North Cal, so. Oh, okay. She likes the weather. She was pouring in bread to hate it here. People from Southern California always get excited if they take a trip up North. Oh yeah. But no one up North would ever come down South unless there's like some they have to, which is hilarious. It's more work. Yeah. And there's still, you know, I spent a lot of time in the grateful dead world and like the late Phil Lash was always super serious about, well, I mean, from like Central California to Southern Oregon, we should be our own state. There are a lot of people that I think, think about that in California, because if people don't live in California, they don't, maybe they wouldn't understand what we're talking about, but you do feel a divide, I'd say Santa Barbara is the tip of Southern California and it feels a little NorCal, but you, it's still. Yeah, yeah, it starts to be central. I mean, people, it's a huge place. So within just the size, there's, you know, regional identities. Yeah. Which is funny because in the corporate scheme of things and as the world removes us from our regional identities, you know, I'm Southern person, I'm from Atlanta. I'm from, you know, that's some asshole the other day, go, that's not Southern. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, Georgia is pretty Southern. Check out the map. Yeah. You could drive to Alabama, you could drive, like Atlanta is a, I like to think of it as a centralized kind of location for the South in the sense of like a culture was built there where there's a music industry there now. There's a lot of metropolitan things. It's almost eight million people there. Yeah, but it's Southern. When I left in 89, really, when we made our first record, it was a big thing. But when it went to three million people, like in 1988, 89, like our whole scene, the whole music scene, art scene, my friend JT had this thing called the Mud Shack every month. And it was like a poetry reading thing. And everyone with their poems were always getting like, I live in a city of three million people. I'm like, you know, it was like, as if it was a big deal. Yeah, it was a big deal. And now, I mean, it's, I don't recognize, I mean, I'm, I don't really care about, I don't identify as a Southern person in the way that I know other people do. And the South is, it's funny, I was just reading this book. It's a history of the United States, as told by the original regions. Oh, that's cool. It's really good book. I love that kind of stuff. And mind blowing, you know, it's mind blowing the myth that, you know, the creation myth of the United States. There's many different narratives and many different stories, but we chose the Puritan one. Which is still wreaking havoc with people today. We see it today. You know what I mean? We see a lot of our fear and ignorance and negativity coming from these people who were asked to leave an England and a Europe where you're being, they didn't leave like on their own. They were like, you guys gotta go in a Europe that's still burning witches and stuff. These people are too far out. You know what I mean? Like, eh. Hasn't Atlanta, Atlanta is really progressive place, man. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, maybe, I mean, not perfect, but the ripples of like the progressive racial attitudes. And of course the business people in Atlanta, Coca-Cola was a huge thing, you know? But people always say, I'm like, you know, I mean, I didn't have anything to do with it, but the place was burned to the ground, you know? Yeah. You have two ways to go with that as the leaders or whatever. And they decided that's why Atlanta has a huge Jewish population, lot of like gay people and queer people always in Atlanta. And that black people, because of the black universities there, you know, the black middle class had so much more power, economic power and social power that they used to say Atlanta's the city too busy to hate. It's like in LA, I feel like, and I do wanna ask about Atlanta, but I will say in relation to that, in LA I feel like if you grow up here, which I didn't, but I have tons of friends who did, I've been here for 20 years now. So I feel like I'm in the inner community of people who grew up in LA, which is closed off when you first get here. You're like, the people who live here are different than the people who move here. Yeah, of course. And got married, raised kids, got to know some people. And I noticed like everyone grew up knowing someone whose parent was famous or owned that big company or did that. And they all grew up with this idea, and in some ways I think is really good, in some ways could be really limiting to what you, the freedom you have, which I agree with you on growing up. I mean, it's your perspective of what that is, of everything is duality, I mean, in that way. So I completely like- Like both things are true. Yeah, but it really depends on what you do with the experience and the information. You know what I mean? Totally. Given another set of circumstance, would we have been more business savvy? We just wanted to make record, we wanted to make a record. Right. You know what I mean? We wanted to go on tour. Right. You know what I mean? We didn't really, there was nothing involved in any of it that would have pointed to and or dictated like getting on a 40 year career of doing it. I mean, we kind of thought like most of the bands that we love, you've mixed some music and then you go out and if you're real and it's good, it blows up in your face anyway. Or that, you know, that just wasn't a thing. I think here you would maybe have access to see the sort of building blocks for careers and things and to see what you could really get out of it in terms of the material, materialistic sort of world. We were like money, you know what I mean? Like as long as, you know, as long as we were completely out of control at all times, that's what we were looking for. At least that's what I was looking for. I would say probably though, that was a really good thing because when I look at your band and I look at your, the span of your career and I look at back, but I was listening to the live record from last year that you did at the Greek. With Jimmy Page. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That shit blew my mind. Yeah. It was so good in a time where you don't, listen, I think live is back in a big way where people want to experience music and it's great. But in a time where bands haven't necessarily been toiling over their live show over the last 10 to 15 years, if you really, if we really put it on a wall and analyze like the craft of live where you're not forcing- I mean, craft is the word, you know, that's the- Right. And it's something you've got to kind of toil over and then you go out on stage and let it happen. But there is some, there is something about a presence live versus like forcing something live. I mean, that's, yeah. We hardly could ever be that clever. Right. But there's something that's, but that's the thing is like at the highest level if you look at something and it might be that the person who's delivering that, expressing themselves, what, you know, your band is unique to this. And I'd say there's a very small category of bands that can do this. You could play on stage with Jimmy Page. It's completely natural. It's executed at the highest level from a listener perspective as a person. I love music and I feel more like a fan. I've always felt more like a fan watching, but when I see people executing at a high level and I'm inspired, it's not that I go, I could never do that. I couldn't do it because it's a different animal. It's like- Of course, of course. And so I listened to that and I just marvel at it because it's just hard to accomplish those moments and they're alive and they're not orchestrated to happen. It's like you're watching something- Yeah, it's not put together in that way. I mean, it's cliche to say at this point in time. It's cliche because people love to throw terms around. It's organic. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're saying it sometimes, then that doesn't necessarily mean that that's what it is. I mean, in our case, it was funny because we start out like, well, my dad had a top 40 hit in the 50s with like a Bobby Daren kind of rock and roll song. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Your dad did? Yeah, my dad was a singer. Oh, wow. And then in the early 60s, he was a folk singer and he was in a folk duo called the Appalachians that were on ABC Paramount Records who made a couple of singles. So it wasn't out of the, you know what I mean? So there's a musical thing there, but by the time Rich and I want to make music, we don't watch MTV and we don't listen to 96 Rock or whatever in Atlanta. We're like, oh, you know what I mean? We're like X and the Gun Club and we're like the English music and, you know, from the clash and the pistols and stuff, but now we're into Echo and the Bunny Man and now we're into this. And the first concert, the first shows I could go to were like all ages punk shows, you know? And so this is the early 80s. So we're kind of at ground zero for like the whole hardcore thing. And that was really the energy of that and the DIY part of that. And that we were outside our kids living in a suburban thing where other kids are listening to Van Halen records or they're listening to whatever is on MTV, you know what I mean? Cool, good. Whatever gets you through the night, you know? But for us, to come from this background, but we loved records and I loved records and I liked Bob Dylan just as much as I liked Joe Strummer and I saw like there was a connection and- I agree with that. I always thought that. I liked Moe's Allison records and I liked Jazz and Bluegrass and my first records are all funk records, you know? I only listened to V103, FM and Atlanta. This is before hip hop becomes the main catalyst for like black culture and what's happening in that world. My first concert is Cool and the Gang and Slave at the Omni and I went to see Slave because I was a huge fan of Steve Errington singing, and I loved all those records and stuff. But by the time we start playing, it's like we're not playing that music, man. I'm obsessed with Prince and the time and like all this stuff and my man, we can't, we're not doing that. You know what I mean? It's like we're not doing that. That is on another level of something, right? But by the time like we get to like fucking around, the punk stuff and the cramps were really huge for us. We could play Goo Goo Muck in the garage like after a couple of days, but we would also could play the birds or buffaloes. You know, we liked all this kind of stuff, but when we allowed ourselves to start letting the roots music in, the stuff that really is deeply embedded in us, which is also part of my dad having those records. It makes total sense to me when you tell me about your dad. I said, dad didn't know that. Now I can almost quickly identify what you were absorbing at a young age before you even knew you were listening to it through probably him and what he was around. They had a lot of records. You know, records are, I've been collecting records since I was 12 years old. Vinyl? Vinyl records. It's an ugly, ugly habit. Are you looking for like first editions and things like that? Yeah, but I'm more just about having what I have to have more so than getting wrapped up about that. But yeah, I mean, as the years have gone by, which is funny, because when I met my wife before we were married, she was the hippest chick I ever met. She had the best record collection I've ever seen, thousands of records, you know? Wow. But I think it was about my mom, my mom too, you know what I mean? So it was like, oh, both my mom and dad had the same Jimmy Reed records, because like kids in the 50s and shit, they would write their names on the records when you go to a party or something, you bring your records over and you wanted to know which ones were yours. I think the point of what I'm saying is that we had like, my mom and dad probably had 300 records, okay? So I read something not too long ago that the average American family at that era maybe had five to 10 records and you would have them on that little like metal stand by your stereo and you would put them on. So that alone, my parents had so many records for me as a little weirdo dyslexic kid who wasn't really relating on a lot of levels with other things, that music, it didn't, and till to this day, I don't care if I'm listening to Julian Bream playing Elizabethan Lute music, it sounds new to me. And when it's happening, it's alive and it's real and it's changing what I need, I need it. You know what I mean? I need it just like I know what I want to eat or if I need something that's gonna feel a certain way or if I want drugs or alcohol or whatever it is at those moments that you need, it's never about escapism, it was always more about making something more alive and more vibrant. So to have the, you know, and all of this is in regards to the first time we hang out with Jimmy Page, we're playing the Royal Albert Hall and I had had, when I was a kid on our first tour, I had to open for Stephen Tyler and Robert Plant like back to back as like a front man, you know? And Robert was, and Steve, they're both amazing and I see Stephen much more than Robert, but Robert brings Jimmy down to the Royal Albert Hall and we're like, of course, we're like, it's, you know, as if being friends with Robert Plant was normalized at this point. You got used to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's Robert. But Jimmy comes down and back then, you know, we have a big stereo system in the dressing room and we're always playing music and stuff. And I had a big case with like maybe, I don't know, 200 CDs in it or whatever that would go everywhere. We didn't have a turntable. And so the case is open and Jimmy's like, can I look at the CDs? I'm like, yeah, yeah. You know what this is. You got, you have this because he's really into records too. And that kind of was another way for us to, then he saw the show. But that we, you know, so many, you'll meet so many people and I love Led Zeppelin, but our love of the same things, a generation away, you know, in age, but my love of the same things that Jimmy loved when he was a kid really was a big part of the bonding. You know what I mean? And so that, oh, you know what I mean? Like you could get a lot of dudes who want to play Led Zeppelin but they probably don't listen to the music that made Led Zeppelin in the same way. It's like. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand, marketing tools that get your products out there, integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time from startups to scale ups online, in person and on the go. Shopify is made for entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup. Like a language you speak that is hard to learn and it's not something you can explicitly learn either. It's a weird. You gotta feel it. Understanding. And within the feeling, I think being able to, you're right though, you have to learn, the language is important part of, I mean, music is language. Yeah. You know, people also throw the word authentic around a lot. Authentic is a word, yeah. They love to use that word. But I think it's the feel of things. And I think one of the issues I have with young, I work with a lot of young bands and I still, we go out and see, try to see as much music as I can. It seems like the feel, you know what I mean? It's like ultimately we didn't learn to, my brother didn't learn go to, we never had a lesson. I didn't go to a vocal lesson. He didn't go to guitar lesson. He didn't learn shit from YouTube. He sat down and started playing guitars. And oh, well, why does Nick Drake sound like this? Cause he's in open tunings. And we, you know, we love Keith Richards, Keith Richards in open tunings. Stephen Stills plays in open tunings. So my brother would figure out, this is before, you know, he didn't ask anyone. He just had to figure it out. And I think those kind of things are something that, it's like the artists who paint, they just paint. They didn't go to art school to learn how to paint. Or if they did go to art school, sometimes they learned all these things just to be able to toss them aside and kind of find your own vision, your own what the textural world feels like. Well, there's a feel I'd say throughout your entire catalog that would be very hard to explain, recreate. In fact, I would say if we just zoom out and say in relationship to your 40 year career, which is very hard to accomplish. Yeah, that's crazy. Plenty of people quit and you go, I know why. I understand. I kind of am jealous of you. Like there's something that calls you to keep doing what you're doing and you can't explain it. Cause if you could quit, you would kind of, cause it's hard in a way like the torture of sometimes needing to do something and you make a record and sometimes you're not satisfied with it and then you like, there is a lot of different experiences here where I tell people with music sometimes when someone's like, how do I, you know, kid walks in and they're 18 and like, how do I do this? And you're like, all right, what would you, what, what advice would you give me? And I, my first thing I would say is don't do it unless you have to, cause you're gonna give more than you get if you're really in this. And if the given's better than you're getting. Yeah. Exactly. So, but I would say that if we zoom out and we, and we look at your legacy, your career, I'd say that very few bands could, you know, have a 40 year career, but then also hold a space in music that feels like there's not a lot of bands that can deliver the live rock and roll that feels like to me, carrying a torch of a certain kind of music that's not, you see bands do it and you kind of go, like, eh, it feels like we were never chasing whatever. Right, but you, it was you, you were eight. Yeah, yeah. And that you could feel that like, and then you're from Atlanta. So you kind of like, for me, I'm like, I can hear the country. I can hear the old rhythm and blues. I can hear the soul. I can hear the gospel. I can hear all that stuff all in there, the funk. And so then when you tell me you were listening to records, now I'm like, oh, now I always love these conversations cause I get a little insight into like the music I've heard. And then it makes me, my imagination run away and I enjoy it even more. Right, right. Because I almost could be there the moment you were in the bedroom or the garage and you played that guitar lick or you said that. I mean, it's weird because it is, it's a funny thing to also to have diverse interest in music. You know what I mean? Like I'm never, you know, to me, maybe, you know, like my real loves are like Thelonious Monk is one of my great pleasures in life. Something that always makes me feel something and my imagination, my soul. But I'm never, you know, we're never gonna, is it in there somewhere? I don't know about that. But when I think about, you know, it's funny, we grew up, like R-E-M was really important, especially the very first few R-E-M records. R-E-M. Chronic Town, Murmur, Reckoning, especially those, because we were there, Ground Zero. You were there for the, yeah. In Atlanta. That's so cool. And we were like, I mean, dude, are you kidding? Like Pete Buck, I still see him and I get, I go back to like, I'm like, I'm cool with Jimmy Page, Pete Buck, I'm like, oh, you know what I mean? Yeah. It was also, you know, the other thing I don't, I think that was cool about Big For Milana is the dreaming. We had so much dreaming to, and I'm just like, crazy person. Me too. I don't really deal, and it's hard, you know what I mean? It wasn't hard to be for teachers to say he's stupid. I don't know, whatever. I always got, you're lazy. Yeah, you can't do it. I knew that what I knew, and my mother, she was good. She was like, well, I don't know what this is, but we're gonna figure it out. So being in the deep South in the early 70s and being like me, they were like, what is wrong? Your parents were very supportive. They were supportive, not about music, but they were supportive of like me not thinking that he's like the dumbest kid in the class. What would they have? Rather you done bus sites, music. Anything. Okay. But that's because they had that life and they didn't want it for you. They're part of it, you know, which is hard actually. It was hard to deal with. My dad was a really, my dad was a big guy, and I think he was definitely resentful and angry that things didn't happen for him. But Big Stan hasn't been with us for a while, but he wasn't a weird, I mean, my dad looking back is probably weirder or whatever than we thought, but he was a rugby player and he was a tough guy. You know, he was aggressive and quite intimidating and big. Well, likely grew up in a time where you had to be kind of, especially in the South. Yeah. And I think that he, but my dad wasn't, he didn't have the creative spirit that drove Rich and I into this, which was the writing. You know what I mean? So we kind of, he wasn't a reader. He didn't like, he didn't like strange. You know what I mean? And ever since I couldn't remember, I was always like, okay, that's cool, but what's weird. You know, I like. Let's get weirder. Yeah. I want to, I like weird. Yeah. Even before I did psychedelics, I knew, you know, I was obsessed with them, you know, like reading and, right. You were interested in psychedelics? Yeah. And you did them for the first time? I did them. It must have been 86 maybe. So before the band. Yeah. Yeah. Oh wow. Which was amazing as well, because I was with the, was it like asset? Like little, I took shrooms for the first time. Okay. With all my friends who were in bands. Now shrooms are so normal. It's normal for people to take a little, yeah, like a micro dose. I'm going to take a little bit. You know what I call it? I call it the coward's dose. But I don't feel good. I don't want to see that. The world is, ooh. Yeah. I'm going to take a little bit of micro dose. I'm like, man, oh my God. By the way, in the 60s during the acid revolution, they used to say a mind blown is a mind shown. You know, I wanted to blow my mind. Yeah. I wanted to fucking walk around the pond. I wanted to be at the bottom. So you went all the way, the first time you, the first time you took mushrooms, you went all the way, you tripped. I was, yes, yes. But it was also lovely. And I always think back with such fond remembrance because my friends were so rad, man. My friends who had already done it. Done it. And they were, and my friends were, they were like guys. My friends were bad. But, you know, they were in bands too. But I remember having my first moment of, oh, this, and they were like, oh, it's, you know, it's being so kind. They were good guides. Amazing. Yeah. And it really, you need that, I think. Yes. Yes. And it really set the stage for, and it's, and I can look at it, and it's indicative of that scene we came from when we were all kids and everyone wanted, you know, I try to explain to kids, everything was bands, man. You know, like it wasn't, you know, we didn't have money to go to the basketball game to see the Hawks or whatever. It was bands, man, I gotta get on the guest list. You get five people, like, man, are you coming? You know, like this whole, but everybody was in a band. And if you weren't in a band, you were making the stage, or you were making art, or you were poets, or you were junkies, or whatever was going on. Were you a poet as well? I mean, that's what, I have a hard, when I use the word poet, I use it in a real classic term. Like you wrote some poetry. Well, that's how I get involved. That's the only reason that I even thought that we could do this is because, okay, so now, you know, Rich is playing guitar. And I didn't know I could sing. And my dad definitely told me you can't sing. Wow. Yeah. As a matter of fact, if you wanna hear the Southern colloquialism that my father used. I would love to. He said, you can't carry a tune from the well to the house in a fucking bucket. Yeah. And I said, all right. And he goes, if you wanna be fucking Mick Jagger, you could get the fuck out of my house. Wow. And which was funny because my brother, they was fine. Right. So he was cool to live in the house. Your dad was okay with the guitar. It was more, it wasn't even about the guitar. It was just more about I represented something. Not only was I interested in that kind of stuff. But I represented that to him. Right, cause you were walking it. You were living it. Yeah. Before you were the lead singer of the Black Crows, you were the lead singer already because you were walking around living and breathing. And I had the ideas. Yeah, you were being yourself. And sometimes I think that's interesting too because sometimes we don't fit in anywhere until we get this bad thing. Right. In the early 80s in Atlanta, the dead Kennedys now is something everyone's like, yeah, cool. Right. Back then people would be like, you can't say that or something. The best hardcore band in Atlanta is Neon Christ. I had on my, I had a little Volkswagen rabbit and I had two bumper stickers. Neon Christ and the monkeys. Yeah. I had a stack of Neon Christ stickers because anytime I was out in the suburbs, someone would rip it off the car. Yeah. Cause it was offensive to them for some reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's cool though when you, you know, this individual and I was a little bit the same way. I didn't fit in because I just didn't want to be like everyone else. So I found differentiating myself made me feel better. Of course. And you find your tribe. You find your people. You find the other kid who knows what that record is or that pin you have. Yeah. I mean, I went to high school where the first time I wore black Chuck Taylor's, they were like, what are you gay dude? And I'm like, gay? Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. You've not seen the Ramones they wear? Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? They were like, they were like, they were like, all the rednecks would wear like Alabama. Like a junior shirt. They would want to like kick your ass. Yeah. It was real back then. You would get beat up. Dude, in Atlanta, if you're like, walk down the street and a million dead, million dead cop shirts, someone's pulling over to punch you in the face. Yeah. What's that mean? Yeah. You know, it's a band. I like what, so at the time, your dad is kind of, you probably felt some rejection in that way. Of course. I mean, of course. Did you guys ever, was he proud of you after like you had the success? He was proud of me after and of us, but it also, it was a weird thing to navigate because of our relationship. His jealousy of it was weird to navigate because you, you know, you like to think, you know, and I have, I have two kids, you know, and I'd like to think I've been far more accepting but there is this phase in your life, no matter what, where your parents really are, you know, the Godhead of what's going on. They're God, yeah. I was just gonna say that, it's like God. And you know, when I was, before I let it all go, I was an athlete, you know what I mean? I played little league football. I was the littlest scrawny kid out there, but I would mix it up. Yeah, you were pretty good. I'd look over, my dad would be like, that's cool. Yeah. I took, my dad would make me go do martial arts and you'd find yourself in a place where you'd fight some other kid in a tournament and they look at you like, are we gonna hit each other? Yeah. And he was proud of that. Did you enjoy that stuff? I did. Or did you enjoy making him proud? I did like playing football. Yeah. And I played soccer before that and then I played high school basketball. I liked basketball because my dad didn't know anything about basketball. Right. That's interesting. But yeah, but it was a certain, you know, it's like anything else, you know, 12 to 13 and then 16 to 17. Yeah. And then by then I'm, you know, the reading, you know what I mean? My mom and dad, luckily my mom sent me to a school when I was younger. I would go to regular school and then three days a week I went to, it's an unfortunate name, but he was called Dr. Skanks and it was the Skank School. Still in Atlanta, but they, I went and it was, you know, looking back, it was, other kids are doing other shit. I'm at go to school to go to another school, but they turned my thing around so I could read. Right. That was every, it's still everything to me. And then you like really found. All I, it's my, it's so boring. All I do is read, but it was incredibly important because it opened up an entire world to my, you know what I mean? It opened up an entire world of yes, and my interests are varied and I'm a deep dive, you know what I mean? No, I can tell. I don't, there's nothing surface about anything that I'm interested in. That's just the way I am. So by the time I'm, you know, okay, cool. I like Edgar Allen Poe. I like this Franz Kafka stuff, you know? Oh, I like these poets, Gregory Corso. But once I get to the beats and I get to Kerouac and Ginsburg and Gregory Corso, and then I start to find my way to Nelson Algren and all these other like things. Wow, man, you know, I mean, a millions, millions of people read on the road, which by the way, I don't even like anymore that much. But realize when Jack Kerouac says, I knew I wanted to get out in the world with all the mad people, all the wild, you know, and that was, I mean, even my mom one time, like being furious, like, you don't have to live like, are you copying the books you're reading? I'm like, mom, I'm not copying anything. They're inspiring for me to know that the world is full of adventure. The world is full of experience and poetry and also full of disappointment and pain and sorrow. Like I'm not afraid. I was never afraid. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And yeah, you're afraid. I don't want my people to get sick, whatever. There's like human things. Pain and suffering of life. There's a healthy fear for all of that, of what's to come. Like there is. But it can't be, it can't limit your experience. I agree. And I think whereas my parents probably blessed them, I had a great life. You know what I mean? They didn't beat me up. I had food, you know what I mean? I mean, if my worst experience was that I always couldn't understand why they would have moved to the suburbs, we can work with that. Yeah. I think that to look back at our parents and analyze or reflect what or how they did something and how we related to it at the time is important because I feel the same way about my parents and they were a mess if I'm being honest. If I look at it and I said, if we put that. But why would you, why put it in any other thing if that's your experience out of pleasantries? Yeah. Out of etiquette? I mean, that's another thing. Exactly. I don't feel. That's very Southern, by the way. Yeah. Well, I did for a very long time grow up having to tell the story. Cause you don't want to say that. You don't like, cause it's a bit of a class, you want to be classy, you want to stay buttoned up. And so if you hear me talk about it in public or to a stranger, I'll say the top line, oh, my parents are great. I love them. They worked hard. And I say that the good aspects of, I could try to pull out the good. And then if I'm talking to someone and relating to them, I'll tell you, you know, my parents were a mess. They struggled to keep the, very broadly speaking, they struggled to keep their shit together. They struggled to do a lot of things. In the end, the family blew up and it was dysfunctional. And my dad left when I was a, you know, 13, 14, my mom struggled with health, mental health. And you look at it and you go, yeah, those are people who were struggling to function. And I love my parents. My dad passed away. You're allowed to, you're allowed to, as an adult, you're allowed as a young person to be able to look at it for what it is. And the story. And still love them. And still love them. And forgive them. And forgive them. And, and yet for me, that's not hard. Like, like I'm not mad at, or anything, but I had to go kind of work on it a little bit to learn and understand. But I think the story that I live with has to be the truth. Of course. The story that I can function from a place of truth. Look, I always think it's funny. I told Camille, my wife, we were talking about when I went out for the first year in eighth grade, seventh grade or something, I go, I want to play football. And I'm, you have to be 90 pounds or something. And I'm like 83 pounds. And my dad took me out to the thing where they, and he came over to me and they weigh you to see, and my dad goes, all right, you can do the weigh in with all your cleats and pads and helmet and stuff. I was like, all right. And he goes, I still don't think you're going to hit 90. And I said, how are you guys coming here? And he took a brick from the parking lot and put it in my helmet. And I had my shoulder pads on, but he took my jersey off and he put the, so you couldn't see there was a brick and a helmet and he goes, stand down there. They were like, you may. And my wife's like, that's abuse. I'm like, you know what I mean? I was like, I was, I was like, let me in. You know what I mean? But he was like, yo man, come by the car and he put a rock in my helmet. A different time. It was a different time. But, you know, to look back and understand your dad as just another guy. Well, we had, you know, we survived so much shit. It's funny to look back. And like the first 10 years of the Black Crows are the, that's the fucking wilderness, you know? Right. So by the, when we end up, you know, by our fourth album, which is times funny now, people like, wow, that record, people write about them. And now like this record was misunderstood, but it's, I'm like, yeah, thanks. Yeah, it always works like that. When there's a lot of money on the table, then that's when the people around you, your team, you know, that's when they start, they know better than you. I'm like, man, you eat it. Yeah. And then if you're like us, then you can get, that's when you start to worm your way in, to worm your way into me and my brother. It was easy to fuck with us because we're so different. And Rich was like, hey man, I didn't realize about, I knew I was dyslexic. I didn't know what OCD shit was. I didn't realize that every day, every backstage, every people, strangers, all this information coming in with my brother was like, it was, he just couldn't deal. He's so sensitive about it. His social anxiety isn't just, my friend's like, when is your brother a dick? I'm like, I'm maybe, I didn't know. I didn't know that it was something out of his control. How long did it take you to understand that part of your brother? To last Thursday? Wow. No. It took us till our 30s. Yeah, totally. Well, I mean, really until we put the band back together in 2019 is really when I could. How long was that break? It was like almost a decade. Wow, yeah. And were you guys closest in talking in through that time or did you? Never spoke. Oh wow. Never spoke. And then what, when you got back together, was it like more of like a therapeutic exercise or was it like a? We are so weird. We didn't really. I wouldn't want you guys to be any other way. No, there is no other way. Yeah, of course. I mean, I've said it before, but my wife Camille, she's a died in the world punk rock Oakland chick, like, you know, artist, former graffiti writer, and we fell in love and it's been full, the only relationship that's ever benefited anything in my life, the positivity, the work, you know, that we're, and she was the one who was like, listen, let's just start looking at this. And luckily for me, like when it, because we're too stupid sometimes, you know, it's funny cause people go, there's a money when we got back, it's a money grab. I'm like, are you, people have offered us money every year. Yeah. It's a music business. Yeah, every year. It's called the business. I play music, but that's the business. People offered us money every year. We weren't together to come back and we didn't want to deal with it. But when we decided to, I always remember because our attorney, it was starting to come around that we're going to do it. And I still haven't spoken to him. And he hasn't spoken to me. And I started to go off on one of my, and he goes, can I speak to Camille? Camille was like, all right, well, let's deal with it. Let's look at this. And then it's like anything else though. I had a, I've moved away from the things that upset me. I'm not a person to, I'm a Sagittarian. I live in my own world, but I'm not going to hold a garage. You know what I mean? Yeah. Especially with someone, but I could, I could put it into a better perspective. Like, you know what? My ego and my fucking trips, I'm on, man. The best shit I ever did and the shit that means the most to people is the songs that I write with my brother. Yeah. And it's a, it's a hard thing to balance ego when we've had the things, the success, the, when we became what we thought we could be. Then we're playing a game with like, and then there's expression, which you guys were just kids expressing yourself. I mean, Rich was what, 19 when we made, 18 when we made our first record. And you dreamed together and you were expressing that to the world and you were right. You were like, I think we could do that. And then you could, and then it was really good. And it was extremely, what I always give you guys credit for is the songs and the sounds and everything is, it's so hard to get that right. If you get it wrong, you get it really wrong. I mean, George Ficulius who signed us and produced our first two records. I mean, to this day, he says, oh, you don't have to worry about anything. Your voice and Rich's right hand and that's what, And you can hear though, That's what it is. The way that, the way your vocals and that guitar sing together is part of what I think is the magic of even just listening to your live shows. Or, you know, when I hear you guys and I think like, wow, what a unique band that's continued to be unique and stood the test of time. That's what, and then what do you need to stand the test of times? You need great songs. And then you connect with people. That connect with people. And then you need to capture people's imagination. There's something about brothers. Everyone loves a family story. Because we relate to it. There's people out there that wish they had a brother. There's people out there that, their brothers, their best friend. There's people out there that don't speak to their brother. And they look at brothers and they go, well, that's so interesting. What do they say about Mick and Keith and Joe and Steven? They're like brothers. Yeah, they're like brothers. But they're not. My brother and me had a different story. We moved out at a young age and we navigated the world together. We survived together. And when we got success together for a minute, it was full of conflict. It felt now it changed something in the dynamic. Yeah, maybe for a second, maybe we're both scared of that. But we got on the other side of it and we were, we were very, one thing I was very lucky with, with my brother, because from a young age, we just raised each other. Right. Because both my parents, they couldn't really do it. So we were able to be vulnerable with each other all the time. So if I was scared, I could say, hey, I'm scared. I'm like, I'm afraid like we're not gonna have any more success or I'm afraid everyone hates me or whatever it is. I was able to share that with someone and not like have to be tough and be like, I don't care. Or not feel that that could be turned around and used against you. Yeah. And you know, because music is just full of disgusting people. That'll take your secrets. But even people you thought, not maybe your real family, but I saw it happen to me, man. You know, like this guy's your best friend. And now he thinks because of my, you know, you don't have a fucking idea. You don't write the songs and you weren't the guy with the imagination, but you think you know better now and you're not going to support me because I feel this is how I feel. Yeah. Because this is what I feel we should be doing. And which words, which work for everyone when we're selling lots of records, but we're still making records and making music that I'm proud of. And that's the most important part. I think this doesn't benefit the craft. We started talking about the craft, but I love that you don't have to be fully immersed in that world to do it. You don't. Like you used to. And there's more, there is more public accountability if someone shared something that happened to them. I mean, the other reality is, is the fame was weird. All of a sudden being a guy touring is hard. I've seen a lot of people not be able to stomach this life. Right. The pressure, the just the waking, I don't know. I, you know, people think that they've done some touring too, but when you spin your, it's weird. I hate it sometimes that I'm more comfortable in the hotel than I am in my own home. It's not, you know, I look at Bob Dylan, like he, you know, he's never stopped touring. And, you know, COVID was interesting to me because it, when it's happened, I was terrified for everyone. I was terrified for me and like, what if I lost my wife? What am I, we didn't know. But then I was like, oh my God, this, you know, if I'm not touring, we're not making any money. And I had, wasn't in the black crows. I was in my little hippie psychedelic group. But I was like, after a little while though, I was like, look, life is still going on. I'm not on the tour bus. I'm not at the backstage. I'm not, and it was nice. Yeah. You got a different version of life that maybe you hadn't been able to stop and get before, which I think is really nice. And it was really enlightening in terms of that. And, but the other thing I was going to say is, you know, the other way to take advantage of people like us in our altruism is all I ever really wanted to focus on was the work, the songs, the shows, you know what I mean? Like I'm not the type of person to think of, what are you going to do on stage? I never thought what I'm going to do. I just go up there and however I'm feeling. It's expression. And it has to be, and this is the one thing Rich and I are like, if it doesn't feel good, we know it instantly. We've had a great career. We've made a lot of money. We've done a lot, but we've also turned down a lot of money and done a lot of shit because we know that's not us and that doesn't feel good. And nothing about this should ever not feel good. Yeah. And that changes some, you know, as you get older and you can see different things. It evolves. I mean, and you can have a different relationship with it. There's a time for things that things evolve. And I think, but I always have gotten that impression that there's an artistic musical expressionism that's happening that I would, I would say I've never gotten the impression that your band was doing anything other than what you want to do. For better, for worse. For better or worse, which I think is part of the legacy, which I think you feel that more than you think it or you read it. You feel it. I would hope for younger people who if they even, you know, that's another thing. Young people don't have the hear, you know, we had heroes, man. You know what I mean? We, I look to people to see how they navigated these waters and are there any road signs left? Like what, you know what I mean? Like my, my hero worship didn't limit me. My hero worship was something that I could put into a certain construct of, you know what I mean? I never wanted to, I was always happy to be myself, but it could always be like, you know, drugs are funny. Like why, I only did drugs that Keith Richards and William Burroughs did. You know what I mean? I think that's a pretty good. That's a safe. Yeah. That's a good guideline. With the new record, you guys made it in a very short amount of time. Yeah. Yeah. And was it you and your brother really like? Yeah, this record was to me and it will again, you know, it will go down with whatever. It was so fun and it was so funky and loose. I mean, the record's heavy and darker than maybe some of the records we've made, but it was just me and Rich and it started when we're, Rich actually just moved back to the east coast, but New York upstate. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. So when I had told him, because I'm writing all the time, I'm constantly writing and I'm constantly doing this and he's got pieces. So he sent me some pieces and I said, well, let's go to the studio. I said, but I don't, I don't want to go to Nashville. I don't want to go with anything completed. I'm not going to write any lyrics. So we talked about it. So I just want you to know, don't freak out. I'm not, because the, our happiness bastards, everything was pretty much complete except for a few chorus lyrics, you know, things, but for the most part it was 80% done. So what we would do is like, you know, it's just me and Rich, Chad Galactic and the Raven, two of our guys. And I said, set up a drum kit, a bass amp and a guitar amp. So just like it has always been Rich and I go in there and Rich will play around and I play the drums a little bit. I'll sit down and start to find a vibes and we kind of took that to Nashville and told Jay, we're coming in, we don't, I'm letting you know, we don't have anything finished. And he was like, great. So we started and after a couple of days we had plans for the band to come. Our drummer, Cully lives in Nashville. So he was there because I'm not playing like that. After a couple of days we were like, I don't, I, I said, we love everyone in the band, but let's do it. So Rich plays all the guitars and bass, our keyboard player came in at the end and uh, Leslie and Mackenzie, our singers came in for one day. We had so much fun and it was like truly, that's all we did. I laugh. I said, it took eight days. We could have done it in five if we had had any songs. Right. Yeah. But we work really quickly and I've said it, but you know, my dear friend Todd Schneider, who's a singer-songwriter, passed away at the end of last year in a very tragic, tragic fashion and this record will always have a certain poignancy for me because he was a real singer-songwriter, a real folk hero, a real weirdo man in the best way. And Todd and I had a relationship revolving around poetry that I don't have with a lot of people. But he was like, can I come down to the studio a couple of days? And I was like, yeah, man. He was just like, how do you guys communicate without saying anything? It's like weird. It's like, is this ESP? Is this magic? What is it? And I'm like, because we work, my brother's more put together. So Rich, you know, when we come up, but I'm like not put together. So I'm like, dude, that, and I'm for a whole life, he's like, this is the chorus. I'm like, that's the verse. Yeah. Yeah. And that intro, that's the core. You know what I mean? So I'm arranging stuff and Rich is trying to keep up with me. Also, he's got his thing, but we work really quickly. And I'm sure it's the same with your brother. After a long time, we don't have to talk. I can just be like, and he knows, or he can do something. Exactly. And we don't have, and it just starts to like go and go and build and build. And yeah. So eight days later, we were kind of finished. And I was teasing with Jay Joyce, our producer. He was like, well, that's it. And I was like, you want us to come on Monday? We'll make another one. Yeah. It was like that kind of vibe. Yeah. You know? And I have to say that I've sat in studios now since the 80s with my brother, and I've done thousands of concerts with him. This is hands down to me, the most spectacular music that he's played, the guitar stuff he was doing, the solo. I was just like, wow, man, Rich, this is, to me, this record is really Rich's masterpiece. Up next, it's Bread Flare and his new band. Oh my God, I'm back again. On that vacation, oh, everybody's been gonna bring new games gonna show you now. New game party, find new dropping hits every week, find the new slots. 18 plus big gambleware total. That's right. It's kind of cool with music though, because playing an instrument, it gets seasoned, it gets aged, it gets, there's things you understand, subtle things over time, where you know not to do something or to do something is a weird thing, because there's less is more sometimes and sometimes more is more. It's all about space. And there is like only someone with the hours and the experience of on stage. But it's also to keep it alive, like we were saying earlier. I was like, oh, this shit is so alive. It was making me happy that we're a band, you see bands sometimes after a long time and they're like trying so hard to be, again, it's impossible for us to be something that we're not. We would get the stink on us in five seconds. You know what I mean? Like, I think there's lots of things we can do, but there's, we know what we, what are we supposed to do? What's the relevancy we're trying to create other than a soulful connection as the writers and the musicians and hopefully how that transpires to the people listening? And if someone new wants to come along cool, but you know, when you've done it for a long time, you have your core audience and you know, and for us to really, again, I truly believe in the power of rock and roll. Yeah. I don't mean it's going to change the world. It's not going to keep, you know, these people from committing crimes against our own citizens. It's not going to keep so, you know, I know this because I talk to people all the time. People play our songs at funerals and at weddings. That's right. And that, and then I know that because when I'm feel a certain way, there's just some things I have to, I have to hear. There's just some weather. I'm in the best mood on a Saturday night and we have people at the house and it's time to put on. Nothing else does the trick. Nothing. In any given moment, nothing else does the trick, but that song, whatever that song is. I need it. Yeah. You know, it could be any weird thing. It doesn't. And it's not necessarily, it's not nostalgic as well. Yeah. I'm not a person that's motivated by nostalgia. I'm not either. We are similar in that way. I do think that what makes me happy is thinking about you and your brother making that record. And I know how quickly you have to work to get something done in eight days. It does have to be a natural. It just comes out. We work like that too. We don't have to talk. And we, it can almost look like we're arguing, but we're not. We're trying to like, because I'm like, no, no, the thing, but then he's like, and then we get there. And it's our process. And no one else can get involved in that process or it slows us down and we hate it. Yeah. Yeah. We need to go. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, I think great songwriting teams are that way. And I don't know if you and your brother are what the differences are, you know, because like I said, my brother is way more subdued and mellow than I am. I think Benj is a structure guy. He likes to build, there might be a little OCD in there as well, which I think is like, it makes him feel safe to do the thing. And it's got to, and then I'm weaving in and out and it's a little wild. And it gets there though, because only I could do that with him. If anyone else did it, he would be like, no, I don't think we could do it. I have to give Jay Joyce another credit. I don't think Rich and I could do it just by ourselves because it was nice to have, I mean, we've made a record with Jay and he makes so many different kinds of records. And he's a great guitar player and he's just very musical, but he's kind of cool. Like he does it in a cool way to know like, if I'm burning, he knows to let it burn. And if he sees that Rich has got something stewing in another way, like, okay, you know, he's really adept at navigating our weird trip. You understand it. Yeah, which is really unique and special. I mean, I always give George DeCulius so much credit, but George also had a sway on us that we don't have now because George found us when we didn't. He was our, you know, he was in, he made the cult electric. He worked with this and he made records and he knew he was Rick Rubin's right hand guy and he was in LA and New York. So he was our lifeline to everything. Right. You know, and he, but we don't need that anymore. Right. You know, so we need another sort of dynamic. And Jay was perfect foil to Rich and I's weird thing. That's pretty cool, man. I'm super, I'm really, I'm really happy to imagine you guys working together almost like at the beginning and then now finding the joy of making these songs and like, there's something that only writing a song can satisfy. And you know, it's the only time Rich and I, even in our warring years, when we would sit in a room and get acoustic guitar or whatever, that's when we always were closed. Now taking that to the studio, then it would be a thing touring. That could cause issues, you know. Right. But it is funny too. Like why were we on the same bus for all those years? Just cause of people greedy. Right. People just getting paid off of your gross. Yeah. People getting paid. They'd rather get paid than have the band being a good place. To be happy and healthy. We would have been a lot better if all the druggy fucking crows and all the sober crows had been separated because it's in your face. Every time the back lounge door opens and it's like, you know, like, whoa, it's like all of parliament funkadelic are back there. When we're young, we think we answer to people and we don't actually. Well, you're just so, you're in, you're just in it. Yeah. You know, and I think there is a survival part. And let's face it, man. After the first record, I mean, I think before we left on tour, we were like, all right, well, we'll be back in Atlanta next year. Yeah, you don't think it's going to work out. We're going to get the records to work out or whatever. Yeah. Like in another band. What, well, who knew? Yeah. So then by the time it's really happening, you're just trying to stay on the roller coaster as well. You know, it was so funny because in late 89, early 90, we're here in LA for a long time doing stuff as a record to come out. And I get a call, Izzy Stradlin wants you and Rich to come to his house. And we were like, what? Yeah. Cool. You know, and I live in West Hollywood. So I will always remember going to that house, you know, and I see it every day. And we go over to Izzy's and I was always thought it was cool that he was listening to aftermath by the, everything in records with me. And I was like, oh, cool. He's listening to aftermath. And he came in and we were talking and he was like, I don't think you guys are prepared. And we were like, for what, an earthquake? You know, he was like, no success. And we're like, us? So like, we're not going to have to deal with like this. Like what are you talking about? Yeah. Like guns and roses, shit, which is still on its own thing. He goes, man, I'll, I'm going to tell you, man, when that rocket ship takes off, just hold on. And we were like, okay. And he was right. You know, man, he was right. And which is so funny. Rich and I talk about it all the time. Yeah. I like a picture of the brothers. It feels like where you're at now with this record and maybe this tour coming up. I feel like you're doing like incredible shows, Hollywood Bowl. I saw. Yeah, yeah. Super excited. Incredible, you know, you can get jaded and you can go like, oh cool, whatever. Yeah. But like there are moments where I do think if you get the chance to have a second and like pat each other on the back and go like, Hey man, we're still here and we did it. We're doing all right. We did all right. It's funny because we do, you know what I mean? We are, we are at it and I don't mean this in a, in a lazy way. I don't mean this in an uninspired way. Right. But we have a certain ease with our love for each other that we never had. That's nice. And it's really nice. Because you guys, you did all right. You know what I mean? What's funny too. I'm like, what's next? You know what I mean? Like I don't, I never take it for granted and I've never lost. I have, I'm opinionated. I'm, I'm, I'm a lot of things, but I have an innate understanding and I have a humble heart. I have a humble soul in regards to the tradition that we get to work in. I have met and I've just got to share the stage and I have met the most amazing, beautiful, tortured, funny people that, you know, you're, you're supposed to you meet people because you're supposed to meet them. Yeah. And that has nothing to do with chat rooms or fucking Instagram likes or, you know, shit like that. You know what I mean? Like you never know. You know what I mean? And sometimes I look at life and I'm like, well, what would it be like to, you know, I, it was funny. My 16 year old was telling me like she loves, she's a deep diver and she's like, dad, you know, we were, I was just in New York, she lives in New York with her mother. I was just with her in New York. She goes, that's where Richard hell lives. I was like, cool, you know, I love Richard hell. She's like, he's been there since 1974 in the same apartment or whatever. And I was like, what? You could live in one place that long. Yeah. And I envy that, but I also would never be able to understand it. And as I'm, as I get into my sixties, I'm like, I want to find some place where it's like home now. Where do you think that is? I mean, maybe NorCal, but I think Camille and I would do ourselves a disservice if we didn't attempt to live in England for a while. Oh yeah. England's kind of cool. I'm not just saying that because I'm all about the blues, man. Yeah. Chelsea football. Yeah. And we beat Napoli in the Champions League. Yesterday, but you love Chelsea. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm huge. One of my best friends is a Chelsea. Blue is the color. Do you go to the games? Yeah. Yeah. I was there a couple of weeks ago. I went to a Chelsea game like two years ago. It was cool at the bridge. Yeah. Nice one, man. Yeah. You're really living the nice life. Yeah. My friend is a big Chelsea fan and he's like, we were in England at the same time. And he's like, you have to come with me please. So I went, I'm not a soccer fan, but I like the whole. It's a cool vibe. It's pretty cool. When you get to the bridge. It's pretty cool. I'm dude, I'm up at 430 when they answer the early game. Like, yeah, I'm obsessed Chelsea. My brother-in-law is a huge Arsenal fan. Of course. That was my son. And he's up 40, he's up at 430 in the morning too. Watching these games. I'm like, holy shit, dude. I love it. But it's also, people think I'm crazy, but especially now, you know, when you wake up in LA and it's 70 degrees and beautiful, I can wake up at 430 in the morning. It's still dark out. Have a cup of tea and beans and eggs. My HP sauce put the match on. It's raining and cold and everyone's freezing. And I'm like, yeah. This is living. Also, do you feel like, because you guys are big all over the world, are there any cultures that's kind of like sucked you in because you felt understood? I remember when a certain couple places, when we went on tour the first time, maybe, I don't know what it is that made me feel so much love for that place. And it could have been that it was my first time there and it was a romantic feeling. Or it felt like they understood us or something. I don't know. But there's certain places in the world I could live because of the experience I had when I first went there. Of course, of course. And it'll forever be like, was England like a place like that for you guys? Because I feel like they love you. I mean, they've always been Anglophile. You know what I mean? In Atlanta was a very English place for a long time. So I feel very comfortable. And I grew up loving English everything, but especially English comedy. So the sense of humor and the way everyone's so nasty and horrible sometimes is really funny. It suits me. I mean, the one place that speaks to me on the deepest, deepest level is Jamaica. Oh, wow. I have my people there. Steve Positiv, Rasta Bentley. If you're listening, the hurricane has been devastating. But Jamaicans are resilient. Jamaicans are unlike any people I've ever met. And I've gone there for I've been going for over 30 years and I haven't been murdered, which is nice. You go every year? We try. It's been a I didn't make it last year. I've never been. Always wanted to go. I mean, there's like anything else. If you go to resort anywhere in the world, you're just at a resort. My Jamaica is a more I like to be in the country. I like to be, you know, with my Jamaican friends. You have like a little community there. Yeah, we have a lot. That's the way you really experience somewhere. Yes, yes. And I and I I like the deep, deep part of the culture and I love Jamaicans are funny. So they're funny too. And the food is fantastic. And I don't know. There's just something about it that is so soul. I know this is my soulful soulful connection. A lot of that might have to do with growing up in Atlanta. You know, I'm a I'm a white man in black Mecca. You know, yeah, I think you're a soulful guy. I think that you're like soulful things speak to you. You know, I think you probably are more in touch with your soul or that soulfulness than the average person, which is our I think when you're an artist and you're making things and you're interested in other artists and you're thinking on like a different plane a little bit. When you get into that long enough where that is the language you speak and it's not a normal. Yeah, because we're very lucky as artists that that's not abnormal for us, where some people to do anything artistic is like a going out on a limb. Whereas we're like, I don't know, go make it and we'll see if it's good or not. Who cares? It's really the only time that life isn't just chaos. Right. And when you have the when you're making something and you express yourself without knowing you're doing it because it's you've been doing it for so long. So the way you dress is the way you dress. But you walk in a room with people who can't express themselves. They're like, whoa. And you forget like I just put my fucking clothes on. And I make some decisions. Yeah, that's what I want. I mean, I've always been a dandy. I've always had that even before I really knew the intricacies of dandyism and the political sort of social implications of what that means. You know, it is funny if I spoke French, we never would have met today because I would have moved to France a hundred years ago. Like that. As English as I am, I drive people crazy with my French shit. I mean, the French. You love France. I like it. Spectacular. I like France, too. I really enjoy France. I love it. French people get a bad rap. Yeah, no, they're just cool. They're the best. And they have a way of life that is and like everything else, France is a big place. So you have regional things. But the French really know how to spend the day. It's pretty cool. Me and Nicole have always had a good time in France. It's like a special place for us. And I really enjoy the people there. So I like. And I love French cuisine is I love. I mean, I spent time in Sicily, Italy. I mean, food is a huge, huge obsession in part of my life. Authentic cuisine driven experience is. I don't. Again, it's an obsession. And when I'm in France and I'm in France, I'm just like, it's it drives everyone crazy. You know, we don't have a date in France this year. But if we did, I would already have every meal planned out. And you're like, we're staying, we're staying four days after. I am 60 at the end of the year. And my best friend is a restaurateur and a chef in New York. And he and he's deeply in with everyone. You're going to do a big blowout. We said, maybe let's go and let's like see if we can get gout in five days. Yeah. How do you get gout? My duck level fats are dangerously low. Oh, yeah. Well, gout, they used to call the king's disease because of all the rich foods. Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah. Like fatty things. Yeah, yeah. You know, like that. Yeah. Get gout. Yeah, yeah. Call it the get gout tour. That's right. The gout. 2026. Gout tour. Gout or bust. Yeah. I mean, literally. Yeah. Let's think you guys are a badass band. And I think that every time you show up, it matters. And that's such an interesting place to be. Yeah. Thanks for saying that. Because I will remember that when I'm like maybe having a moment of like, what the fuck? It's the truth. I mean, I mean, I mean, you're at a place where you get to decide. You really do. Yeah. Yeah. And when you show up, it matters. And I think that a lot of bands dream of being that band. They dream of getting there. And they've had, you know, it's interesting. Like someone could be on their first, their second, their third, their fourth hit. It still isn't done. Still isn't decided. Right. That doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. What matters is actually the things we don't have to say about your band actually matter the most. And that's something that you become, you live it. You decide it for yourself. And bands forget how to decide for themselves. Like you were talking, people get in there and they start scaring them into this direction or that direction because of this and that. And you're like, the ones who decide for themselves, even if they lost themselves for a minute, because we all have the ones who decide for themselves what they're going to do. And I've always said, you know, with record companies and people, I'm like, that's great. But you have 50 bands and I have mine. This is the only one I know. And I'd rather take the, I'd rather be, I'll take the hit. You know what I mean? I'll take responsibility as a, if something, if I listen to you and it fails. If it happens, you're going to take credit for what I did anyway. Of course. But if I listen to you and it falls on its face, it's on me, not you. And you can fuck off to the next project you have. That's right. You know what I mean? And this is our life. I get one career. You get to attach to like a hundred careers. Totally. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, man. It's a real pleasure to speak to you. Thank you for having me, man. Thanks. It's been fantastic. Chris, thanks, bro. It's great to meet you. You too. Thank you for watching Art is Friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.