Lust and Anger will Kill You - Matthew S2E3

Welcome to Deep In with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with Him. Now let's dive in. Is decaf for quitters? Yes. There you go. Let's get it. I mean, Pastor Joby basically said if a church tells you not to drink coffee, you should leave. Yeah, but decaf is. Now Gretchen's a big fan. She has caffeine after whatever, four o'clock. She says it's all in her mind, though. I don't think that. It's like if I drink caffeine after whatever time, I never sleep. I'm like, okay. Just relax. It's just that. It's just. It's individual. I'm kidding. I could drink a cup of coffee going to bed, and I just lay down and go sleep. It's really, I think, individually. You can get tested for how fast you process caffeine. why i mean different people do slow or fast so it's probably the people that are slow that they drink at three they can't sleep when i was on my way to school as a in middle school my uncle would pick us up me and my brother and my cousin would take us to school every morning we would stop at the general store and i would get a mountain dew and a honey bun let's go that's what i ate for breakfast every day for three years a mountain dew and a honey bunny can you imagine being my teachers bro like what a terrible child i must have been just all hopped up on mountain dew your afternoon teachers probably appreciate it because you were in a coma oh wow well how about matthew five let's go let's get it this will be fun oh yeah fun is the word i I was thinking. Well, here's the first question. We've talked a lot about Jesus and Matthew's message about Jesus being the greater Moses. Yeah. And something that stood out to me about this section is that Jesus repeats these phrases. He says, well, you've heard it said, but I say. So say some more words about that thing that he repeats. So I think there's two things going on here at the end of the sermon. They are going to say, and when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teachings, by the way. Not miracles, not prophecies, but his teaching. And here's the astonishing thing for he was teaching them as one who had authority, not their scribes. So he is upping the ante on what they knew as the law Now I think a part of the reason he says you have heard it was said is because the first ones are like word for word commandments But as you keep going it starts slipping into things that aren't word for word Bible verses from the Old Testament So like the love your neighbor that's in Leviticus 1918 I want to say But it doesn't say hate your enemies but they have heard the religious leaders say love your neighbor and hate your enemy and so it kind of so there's two things one is that he has not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it and so he's that's what what he's doing here like it's not just the law written on stone tablets this is the law of god written on our hearts this is a heart issue not an obedience issue okay but then some of these things he's like whoa whoa whoa whoa that's not what it said it's not what was written but what You've heard the divorce one. There's no commandment about divorce. There's a concession in Deuteronomy 24 that Moses gives for the protection of women that were being used up and abused. So I think it has something to do with both of those. One is he teaches as one with authority, that authority was given to him by God the Father. And I think he's getting at you guys are making stuff up. You guys are adding stuff to what God said. Yeah, there's an Osborne. Larry wrote a book years ago. I think it was Osborne that wrote a book called Ten Dumb Things Christians Believe. Okay. And he more or less just takes these like ten cultural phrases that have somehow turned into like cultural proverbs that are like a morphing of something that the Bible said. You know what I mean? It's like I'll never give you more than you can handle. It's like that's just not what the Bible says. Not at all. And that's kind of what they were doing. Everything happens for a reason. Exactly. Yeah, okay. That's kind of what they were doing, right? Yep. That's what it looks like. Jesus is just clearing it up. As I really dug into what he said on the you have heard that it was said. And remember, he says, I have not come to abolish. And if you give a surface reading, you might think, oh, no, forget that. This is what I'm saying. But he's not doing that. No. He's saying, you've heard it said this level. Actually, let me say this level. Can you point that out? Yes. So when you first, on the surface, when you hear, unless your righteousness exceeds the scribes and Pharisees, then you're out. Then you're like, well, I'm not in. And then he's like, well, let me explain to you what I mean. What we're not talking about is just external activities. That's what the Pharisees are about, like cleanliness and all laws. I mean, like you pointed out, they're simultaneously mad because Jesus' disciples, they don't wash their hands right. and they're plotting the murder of Jesus. So he's like, actually the way your righteousness can't exceed them. Let's not just talk about the external letter of the law. Let's talk about the heart. That's why I love that verse that the love of Christ compels me, a bunch of words in the middle, to not live for myself but to live for Christ. you know we talk about the city on a hill and like kingdom of priests that god intended israel to be and how they mess that up this thing with enemies is also interesting because if you go back and read there's a ton about showing kindness to the sojourner because you were a sojourner you were a stranger you were an exile and so correct it's all over the place love your enemies and then there There is also many, many verses about – I mean David prays that God would bash his enemy's head against the rocks. Okay. One of the things too you got to pay attention to, a really good example is eye for eye, tooth for tooth. That was legislative for the courts of Israel, not necessarily to be lived out personally. Like if somebody killed your dog, you didn't just get to go kill their dog. When you went to court, it was to at least keep this thing at equitable retribution as opposed to just reacting to the situation. So here's a big mistake. This is how this applies to America today. There are commands in the New Testament that are for sure for the individual and to the church, but not nationally the way people talk about it. So let's talk about immigration and welfare. Christians should be the most generous people. And actually, statistically, they are by a long ways. What the left will often do is say, well, the Bible says we should take care of poor people. Like, yeah, so do it. But what they mean is we should take people's money and they want to be generous with somebody else's money from a government standpoint. That is not what is prescribed here. And so you got to be real careful to know who these things were attributed to. I love R.C. Sproul says there's actually only one meaning of that text. You know, you read a text of the Bible, it's one meaning. Yeah. There are many applications. And so what you're talking about is that is a misapplication of that, what the text means. It's real easy to be generous with somebody else's money. Right. For sure. Yeah. But we are commanded to be generous individuals, people. Yeah. And then when they talked about the law, it encompassed so much that it's easy for us to be confused about what applied to what. Let me give it to you on the other end. So God has instituted the government to enact justice, not me and you. Mm-hmm. So even though if there's a murderer, not in the act of murdering and you defending somebody, but they clearly did it, we don't get to go just murder the people. Mm-hmm. That is in the realm of the government. It is just up to them to be able to do that. Right. And you talked about this quite a bit in the Stand Firm series. We're responsible to use the domain of influence that we have. Correct. To be protected. Somebody in my disoperator was asking about this. Aren't we supposed to correct people who are wrong? I was like, well, it depends. Where has God put you? What's the authority that he's given you? You're not going to go door to door and try to pull out all the people that you disagree with and show them what's what. So anger is the first one of the six. and here's something I noticed that he's talking about anger in the heart being worthy of the same consequence as murder or just as much of a consequence but then he says if you're offering your gift and you find out your brother has something against you so it feels a bit like a switch because that's not anger in my heart, that's somebody else's anger yeah but you are the offender not be offended then you go make that thing right right but one set one second on this it doesn't have the same consequence because you you would never put somebody in prison for thoughts right right so it is different and i have people look at me with shock sometimes when a spouse wants to leave their spouse for adultery but what they actually mean is lust and I'm like you're right in his heart he did commit adultery but that is not legal grounds we're talking about a different thing here in the same way if you were mad at me I don't get to arrest you for assault because you didn't actually assault me so yeah the legal applications are not the same as the spiritual distance that you create between you and God based on that internal realities. Isn't it also interesting that he doesn't say when you're angry, you've already murdered them. But when he's talking about lust, he says you already have committed adultery. Interesting. Let's talk a little bit more about forgiveness and reconciliation, because that's often one that gets confused. You brought it up. Forgiveness is unilateral. Because Christ has forgiven you, you've got to forgive. You've got to cancel the debt because he canceled the record of all of your debt. And so in Matthew 18, this is the parable that Jesus lays out. It's called the parable of the unmerciful servant. He was forgiven a ton but would not forgive a guy a few, like a month's wages or something like that. And the onlookers look at that and be like, well, that doesn't make any sense at all because the king just forgave him of everything. And so from a heavenly perspective, if we don't forgive and yet claim the forgiveness of Christ, it doesn't make any sense. So we're supposed to cancel their debt. Now, that is different than reconciliation. As much as it is up to you, you should live at peace with all men. But reconciliation requires both parties, and repentance must be there in both parties in order for them to be reconciled. And there's sometimes – and when Matthew 18 says, if your brother sins against you, go talk to him one-on-one. Well, that's generally speaking if that one-on-one situation is not violent or there's abuse there. That is not what – and honestly, that has been abused by church leaders for a long time. Like I don't know of any of this personally But when you read about the abuse of some churches Pastors would tell wives to go back into an abusive situation Because God might save or whatever That is no no no no If there's some kind of abuse or something like that You call the police And you're still, this would be so hard You still are to forgive but reconciliation requires a lot more steps and it requires two parties that are willing to repent and offer and receive forgiveness i'm imagining to back up for a minute i'm imagining maybe somebody who's a personality that tends towards people pleasing and then so then they read if you if you realize that your brother has something against you go make it right and could that become like could you take that too far and like oh not you know worry too much that somebody might have something against you is that a thing well it was just talking about it's talking in the context of like murder and anger so that something would be a sinful offense on your part like where you take ownership of something that you did wrong there's something that's not the general they don't like me because of their jealousy you know right the way i've most often experienced this is people the person who feels sinned against goes and seeks the restoration or the forgiveness versus the one who did the sinning against isn't that weird i think i'm saying yeah i mean that's matthew 18 if your brother sins against you go tell him so i think the one of the things jesus is trying to communicate Is that Especially the Pharisees But all of us have a tendency to do this Is we divorce our vertical relationship with God And our horizontal relationships with one another We're like well Dude I think that is so key To this text To these texts This teaching Sorry to interrupt you But I think it's absolutely right Because there's multiple times You even got to it tonight Where he talks about judgment He talks about And every time we hear Like we're actually going to get to judgment In Matthew 7 He says, judge not lest you be judged. And he's absolutely – anytime you read the word judgment in the Bible, you absolutely immediately just go to like eternal judgment. But it also immediately has horizontal impact on your relationships. If you are someone who is quick to judge and to form strong opinions about other people, then you are going to receive that in return. You will be judged. Correct. Does that mean – you know what I mean? Correct. And so I think that is massively key that this is Jesus, the master teacher. He's not just talking about our vertical relationship with God and the implications that sin has on that. He's talking about the collateral damage and the ripple effects of sin through our relationships. Yeah, he's like, do you really want to play this judgment game? Do you want me to judge you the way you're judging that person that offended you? Right. Is that the measure by which you – is this the standard? Is this the game we're playing? you're like no no no no see because this is what we do this is our problem my problem for sure is that i always want to be judged my by my intentions but i want to judge everybody else's actions and i won't judge i want god to judge me by my intentions they'll be like well i know i hurt his feelings but that's not my fault because i didn't mean to well that's irrelevant bro there's a name for that it's called the fundamental attribution error okay say more I think it's a pretty ubiquitous tendency that we all have to do exactly what you just said, is to look at other people and say, well, they did it on purpose, but I didn't mean to. So we judge other people's. Gretchen helped me with this a ton. I've talked about it in years past. Early in our marriage, when I would do something and she would be upset, and I'm like, you shouldn't be upset because let me explain to you why you shouldn't feel the way you feel. It's the worst thing to ever do, but that's what I would try to do. And then one time when it finally clicked for me, she'd be like, listen, if you accidentally backed over my foot with your truck and it broke my foot and you immediately jumped down and said, oh, my gosh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. It would have zero impact on the effect of my foot. Now it would be worse if I was trying to run her over but her foot would still be broken I think this is why Proverbs will say things like careless words stabbed like a sword If I even if I stuck you with a knife even if I didn mean to there still a wound And the offense is instantaneous. And the heat and it goes on to say, but wise words lead to healing. But the healing takes a long time. And even if you didn't mean to, there could still be a scar. Right. When it comes to anger, why do you think – like where do you think anger comes from? Like I get it. We're a sinful nature and all that stuff, but some people are just more angry than other people. I think it's like personality and pain and – I think it actually – if it's rooted – if we're broken image bearers of God, most often I think what anger is, anger is protecting something. Like it's a good thing God put in us. This is why he says to be slow to anger. When it goes south and it's negative, it's protecting us, our ego, our insecurity. It's that kind of thing. When it's used to protect things that please the heart of God, then it's a really good thing that stirs us to action. And so anger in and of itself is not good or bad. It's just so dominant that when anger walks in the room, all the other emotions run. And it's such a dominant emotion. It can just take over. I always think of threat, like a bear, like a bear that mauls somebody. It's not because the bear's sitting there thinking, I don't know which, some human comes by and then just tear them up. It's that they're like, something's coming after my cubs. Yeah. And then what you perceive is angry bear. bro i re-watched the revenant let's go caprio movie yeah about hugh glass the dude he gets mauled by that bigger i mean i know it's all like cgi stuff but that looks as real as anything i ever seen in my life you know it took them forever to film that movie because they only filmed for like 30 minutes twice a day because it was all either at dawn or dusk because of the day because of the light they wanted the exact kind of like oh for sure they had to change the cruise over multiple times when filming that movie because people are like, no, I'm out. It's too hard. It's too cold. Crazy. So wait, let's go back to something you said. Okay. Because I think I'm confused the way you're saying you might be confused or people get confused. So if you're offering a gift at the altar and remember that your brother has something against you, when I read that, I think he's angry at you. Which would put you as the one being sinned against. no no no but i think the other offender right that's what i'm saying i'm saying i think i read it wrong by by nature because if i think my brother has something against me i think oh he's angry at me but no he's hurt because i call him a fool or something right right that's the second one is right yeah you're the offender you get convicted you you realize your error you're supposed to go to the person that you you're taking ownership he has something against me because I wronged him. Yes. And what could be, if you're at the altar, that means you're at the temple. Synagogues didn't have altars. So what this could mean is you leave the temple and go all the way back to Galilee and get right with your neighbor and then go all the way back to the temple to make your gift to God. That also says something about, so they do that a few times a year, right? Yep. And there was, they probably had a better sense of preparation for those things, whether it was through consecration, fasting, or whatever. And so it's like they got ready to go do the thing. So maybe part of what he's saying is don't go into that temple worship haphazardly. I've heard people talk about that for the modern church. We sort of walk in with our coffee. We're not thinking much about the encounter with God we're about to have and how much better you can worship if you've prepared a little bit, especially relationally. I'm with you. What is the phrase, come to terms quickly with your accuser while you're going with him to court? That's it. I mean, your highest allegiance is to the king. And the king's kids ought to be able to work this stuff out, not trusting man-made courts to work it out. This is true, man. we don't modern Christians do not apply this I mean I've been sued by pastors and my and then and our lawyer calls and is like hey man you got the cease and desist it was weird and so he tells me I'm not going to get into the details he tells me what it's about and I'm like I don't think you can do that he goes you can't do that so we need to sue him back and that's the only way to make it right and i'm like i can't right he's like why not what's really sad is our lawyer was a one more of mine that got saved and he was like oh this is easy i'll just call the guy and it'll be fine and i'm like okay yeah you should do that and then he calls back he's like i understand i was like i know it was really it was a terrible witness to this brand new believer You know, right. Is he also saying don't put off reconciliation that's in your power? Like, of course, because you're like you're being basically being dragged to court. He's like, take advantage of the time you still have. Make it right. It's this man. If you harbor unforgiveness, you are going to be a prisoner of that. That's it, bro. And it's going to rule and reign your life. If you're not going to be, you will not be free as long as you harbor unforgiveness because that begins to turn into bitterness. And bitterness will make the whole, your whole life stink, bro. Because you're mad. And here's the thing. The person, the reason you got to cancel the debt, they can't give you what you want anyway. You can't like jump in the DeLorean and fix the flux capacitor and go back to that time and then not say the word that hurt you or whatever it is. like go uncheat on you they can't and so you're trying to receive something from somebody that doesn't they can't even get you give you what you want and even if they stole money for you even if they give the money back they can't give the trust back and so you can either hold on to it and it's going to kill you you're going to be in prison or you can cancel the debt and be free isn't it also interesting he says you'll never get out until you pay the last penny i mean how big of a fine does it have to be for it to take a long time to pay back penny at a time and here's the thing how much do you make in prison exactly just somebody ben mosey or something i don't know well it gets even funner after that you know lust comes after anger and um have you ever heard anybody say well you believe the bible's literal i don't ever word of the bible literal they try to trick you with that one uh jesus is not actually saying pluck your eye out like literally but he is saying it's very serious so talk about what if somebody's like well that's pretty extreme yeah this is extremely important sexual sin dings the soul um it's a path that's the thing. Everybody thinks it's a snapshot. It's not. It's a pathway. It leads somewhere. And I was talking to Pastor Renaud at Mosaic Church in Orlando. He's the first guy that said it to me this way that I've used a million times now. We're not just simply talking about right and wrong. We're talking about life and death, pathways of life and death. So pornography, for an example, it puts you on a pathway that leads to death, death of your soul, death of your sensitivities, death of your marriage or future marriage. Honestly, it rewires the way your brain works. It's very, we all know this stuff. It's very similar. The same pathways that are created in your brain by looking at pornography are similar to like heroin use. Um, and it just kills things, man. So listen, if you're a single guy and you are, and I don't want to hear you're struggling with pornography. because if you actually struggle, like if you fought, you probably have more victories than you do. If you're just giving yourself over to it, here's what it's doing. And this is an original me. Somebody else said this. It's teaching you that honestly, a real woman's not enough. One woman's not enough. And if you ever get married, that woman won't be enough because she just can't compete with the limitless access that you have. And it wires your brain in such a way. Like it is the exact example of the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. He's baiting you down a road that leads to death, death of your marriage, death of relationship, all of those things, death of intimacy. Yeah. And bro, the, I mean, the science is out. Erectile dysfunction in young males is through the roof and it is directly linked to pornography use in their teenage years. Yeah. Yeah. God's ways, if you live God's ways in his world, he was designed that you could live life and life abundantly. It's better. And then the biggest thing, dude, when you commodify other human beings, it's like the grossest thing you could do. Jesus dies for us, and we're trying to use people, and they die for us. It's not good. I had somebody ask me, who's a therapist and a newer Christian. She was like, I don't really get, what do you mean lust? Because they use different words. And she used the word commodity and then objectification. That's it. A commodity is a good or service that you use up, and when you're done, you discard it. And if you treat people that way, you are so out of step with the character and nature of Christ in you. That it's a death sentence. Yeah. Yeah, you said this tonight, some version of it, and you may have just said it as well, but it's sexual sin sears the conscience. It's like a hot knife or a brand that just burns into your conscience. And the scab is shame. And so I think that's something that may not – we talk about shame in passing a lot. By we, I mean like generally in Christianity. But shame is such a powerful weapon of the enemy to terrorize the conscience and the mind of the believer. It's one of his favorites. Totally. So, Pastor, what would you say to the person whose conscience has been seared by their own choices through giving themselves over to sexual sin time and time and time again? And they're buried in the shame of it. And so it feels like the shame is circular. And so they just keep going back because they can't break the cycle of shame. And shame can only produce more shame. Yeah years ago I read this book called Unwanted And the whole premise of the book was like If you are unwanted If you feel unwanted Oftentimes it plays itself out in sexual immorality Because it really comes down to You don't know how valuable you are And 1 Corinthians 6 says You are not your own You were bought with a price Therefore honor God with your body It goes on to say It lists all this sexual immorality And says and such were some of you but you have been washed and cleansed. So the good news of the gospel is that therefore now there is no condemnation for those in Christ. That's why I listen, I knew I was long, but I had to talk about John for the woman at the well. She was shrouded in shame about her, who she was sexually, right? She'd been through five guys and was lived, shacked up with a dude. Now I had to talk about John eight, the woman caught in the act of adultery and God said, Jesus says, I don't condemn you. Neither do I condemn you and go and leave your life of sin. Let's get out of this. And King David, I mean, bro, that's terrible, man. He did all the bad things and still none of those people were useless to God, you know? And so the Bible says that when Jesus died on the cross, he nailed the consequences of our sin and shame to the cross. And so we have to believe that God's word over us is the final word. And so we are not, I mean, condemnation means unfit for use. And Jesus goes, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, your body is a temple that I'm going to move into. And so you got to do the hard work of believing what God says about you over what you think about you. You shouldn't trust all your feelings. You should trust the word of God over what you feel You know Yeah I think if you are listening And you're struggling with sexual sin Oftentimes there's really It seems like there's really nowhere to go Like there's no one to talk to I would just say reach out to our care team And let us help you with the resources And let us help you with And there's no universal Remedy Based because it is so insidious in its nature that each individual has to walk a different path of healing. However, some of the ingredients are the same. You got to bring things into the light. This one, unlike anything else I've ever seen, requires the total freedom of total forgiveness requires total confession. And that's often where people stop at experiencing their freedom is that they don't want to really confess because of the weight of shame. but until you're ready to really come into the light you just never it's the same old if you're not willing to be honest you're never going to be free and i don't think this is one that it's just come to the altar and tell jesus like you need to tell someone for the sake of your soul confess your sins one to another so that you may be healed and you shouldn't confess them to everybody but to somebody and yeah so reach out to our care team and coet2.com slash care there's all kinds of resources there and we'd love to be a partner to anybody who wants to pursue a healing journey as best we can i also think you've got to attack this thing like the shema love lord you god with all your heart soul mind and strength so you got to pay attention to your relationships can't just quit right like your relationships matter the the way you were raised the way you were treated when you were young is there some kind of thing in your past that you've never really dealt with you know there's all this kind of stuff right um with your soul this is these are demonic force i mean you think about this any anybody that has ever succumbed to sexual immorality and then the moment you cross that line and then the afterwards is like oh what have i done if you don't think they're not demonic forces baiting you down a road that you don't want to go down but in the moment your flesh takes over and you're like here we go you got to go to war against this all right your mind you got to pay very close attention to what you're filling your mind with this is the gouge out your eye and cut off your hand so you better put up i mean it will not be enough though guardrails alone will never be enough you've got to have that greater affection but you better you better pay very close attention to what you're filling your mind with if you just doom scroll all the time about stuff that leads you down that road and you just watch movies that lead you down that road then you're not guarding your mind and then strength there's there's some physical things dude if pornography is a struggle then like physically pay attention to this turn your turn all the streaming things off whatever it is that's where like accountability and sharing this and shining some light on it and and so you've got to attack this thing in all of those arenas of your life it would none no single thing prayer alone won't be enough accountability won't be enough software on your phone none of those things will be enough because you're like god made you a total person heart soul mind and strength and you got to attack it on all those ways and i can give pastoral testimony as an encouragement that hundreds I know hundreds of men who had serious pornographic addictions at different points of their life have committed sexual sin any category that you can measure and they now walk healed free you know restored and hundreds hundreds and every single one of them every single one of them would have said at the point of addiction they thought they could they would never be free yeah and i know for a fact that freedom is possible because i've just seen it happen in people's lives so many times. I mean... I also want to speak to this, because there'll be a lot of people that hear that, and they'll be like, well, I'm not addicted. And that might be true. It might just be this kind of occasional... You know, I'm telling you, the enemy has you exactly where he wants you, because you don't realize the depth of it. You know what I mean? And that can be just as dangerous, even though it's not nearly as frequent. Because you're just like... giving yourself over to the lust of the flesh as opposed to being compelled by the love of Christ to live not for yourself but for him. It's like Pastor Matt Carter talks about the lures. Yeah. And you might have swallowed that lure and he's just waiting to set the hook. Yeah. You know? maybe somebody who is new to Bible study could read it's better for you to lose one of your member than your whole body to be thrown into hell maybe it's possible they'll read that and think if I keep sinning I might be sent to hell and so we know from the rest of the scripture that this is not talking about if you keep sinning you lose your salvation but can you unpack that at all about why he says that about your whole body going to hell yeah i don't want everybody to question their salvation unless you're not saved and it's a great way to say it yeah he who habitually continues in sin unrepentant i don't care what you say i got this you don't get to tell me what to do if the moment you're like, well, listen, I'm going to do what I want, but I believe in Jesus, so I get to go to heaven. That's not what that means. Lordship means I do what you say regardless of what I want. Now, the person that is actually struggling with it, that is evidence of the Spirit of God working in their life. But the person that's like, hey, listen, I'm into all this stuff, and I'm a Christian, but I sleep with whoever I want to sleep with. Well, Jesus, I mean, by your own admission, he is not your Lord. You are your Lord because you're saying I'm doing what I want. Lordship means you're the boss of me. I'm not the boss of me. So this particularly comes out in all kind of sexual identity and all of that stuff. If you just If you tell him what you are going to do Regardless of what he has said to do or not do By definition you are the king of your life And he is not the king of your life I think it's important to go back to the point That Jesus would walk through each of these categories And that he would hunker down on Go dogs, hunker down He would hunker down on things like sexual sin And the devastating reality of it in so many different situations and relationships. Go back to the very beginning of the Sermon on the Mount. Blessed. Shalom. Flourishing is the target in the kingdom for the life. And so it's not don't do this because I said it. It's don't do this because flourishing is what I want for you. And there is a way to flourish in the kingdom of God according to the way God has designed things. Yeah, I said it because I'm the good shepherd and in me is abundant life. And that's what I want for you. Sin leading to death is not a metaphor. It's real. It's real. It's really going to kill you. Who can't give testimony to the fact that sin kills things? Right. Right. I was with one of the campus pastors, Pastor Ryan Horner, and he was talking and he said, he said it really well. He said, which do you think is more likely that the spirit of God is in me and somehow failing to do what he promised he would do by conforming me into Christ's image and changing my desires? Or is it more likely? I don't know him. Yeah. I was like, probably the option B. Well, you said it tonight. We talked about it on one of the podcasts. Either one coming out. I don't know. But we talked about it at some point. Conviction for sin. Mm-hmm. The conviction, the invitation, or it's a warm blanket to the soul. I think I heard you say that the first time. Well, it's a paradigm shift for me because I grew up and conviction for sin was taught as a very harsh, negative, almost like a car crash type experience. That it was supposed to be painful and traumatic and it was God course correcting you, which I totally understand what I think is the spirit behind that. What I have found to be true as a son in the kingdom is that when the Holy Spirit convicts me, what he's doing is drawing me in closer to the Father's heart for the better thing. And so it's the stirring the new affections thing, that there's a greater affection. Conviction is an invitation away from isolation and into intimacy with the Father. And I know grown men don't use the word intimacy and isolate. that we don't think about this, but this is exactly what it is. It's like if I want to be near to my wife, then I have to choose to be near to my wife in my words, in my action, in my temperature, in my tone. The other option is to be over here doing my thing and see my wife as somebody that's just there to give me what I want her to do, play the part that I want her to play. And often we treat God that way. God, you're there. You just play the part that I need you to play, but I'm over here doing my own thing. But you didn't just end up there. That is a very isolated, lonely place to live. But that is not the Father's heart for you. If you read Romans 1 and 2, you find out that it's actually God's wrath to give you over to your own desires. 100%. And it's God's grace that you get busted. And the conviction of sin, it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance. And I see us lose this thing that hell is locked from the inside. Yeah, that's it. that hell is the fullness of you getting what you always wanted, which is life without God and without his rule and reign. And that leaves you with me, mine, more, and Satan forever. That's right. Tell me if you like this analogy. The warm blanket, the invitation of conviction, doesn't mean there's no pain. You ever see one of these athletes, they get their shoulder out of socket, and the trainer comes over and is like, All right, I'm going to put it back, but it's going to hurt. Let's deep dive it a little bit because I know what you're saying, and there is pain involved. But you want the other side of it. Is the pain the consequence and the reality of the sin? That's painful. is the pain a sadness, a godly sadness, because you know that you have committed sin against the almighty God and against yourself in regards to sexual sin specifically. Is there a sadness and is there some pain in there? Yes. But is there pain in conviction? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm not sold. Maybe there is, and we're getting into this issue of semantics. I've just not experienced it. Maybe it's an issue of perspective. When I feel the Holy Spirit convict me, I feel it and have experienced it as an invitation to nearness. It is something you want. I think it is something that you want. You say, I want to be on that side of it, not this. Yes But there is all kinds of Pain in the situation By which conviction Comes in the middle of I think you go to the Beatitudes Blessed are those who mourn Because that's what it is Because you're really mourning Your sin And the condition that you're in So maybe instead of pain Use the word mourn But I will The example I've used Is if you had a broken leg And you went to a physician And he reached for the break And you're like Whoa whoa don't touch that It hurts He said, hold on, I don't think you understand I've got to get my hands on the thing that's broken For it to be made well So I'm not trying to beat anybody up tonight But I'm also not trying to give anybody a pass I'm hoping and praying that the great physician Will grab on to that wound And it's going to sting at first You said that tonight at the end Like I'm not trying to beat anybody up And I just as your friend and brother, you handle hard text so well. Well, you just really just say what it says instead of trying to do the gymnastics to make it not. You know, what makes it hard is the humanity, not God's heart in it. Correct. Makes sense. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing, too, but we can be a Pharisee in two seconds for sure. So my parents divorced when I was in high school and it was terrible. So although I've not been divorced and Gretchen's not been divorced, we've all been affected by it. And it just helps if you just try to sit in that seat and the pain and the, you know. And then the other thing, the reason I brought up the, you know, it's easy to be all judgy. Like when I was a seminary student in Africa talking to the Maasai tribe and the Kenyans. And there were some guys that were Christians, you know, and had multiple wives. I was like, you can't do that. How can this man be a Christian and have multiple wives? And so I was going to go tell him. I was probably 22. I was like, look, dude, you don't get to do this. And he just was like, yeah, y'all have divorce. At least I take care of all mine. And I was like, oh, my gosh. So I didn't try to get at that point. I mean, it was a mic drop moment. And I'm not trying to justify having multiple wives. You don't get to do that. But, boy, it sure was easy to sit in a seat of judgment as a 22-year-old. You know what I mean? For sure. And he's just like, we don't discard ours. Yikes. No, that was heavy. So that divorce one, we, I mean. One of the things you do really well, and I've learned a lot from you in it, is that you don't preach to they out there somewhere, and you don't preach to other preachers who are listening, which I think a lot of preachers do. They're just up there preaching to preachers. There's no doubt. No good. And the preachers who are pressing, listen to you, dude. That's right. And I'm just telling you, Dr. Piper and Chandler are not listening to your sermons. You're making your congregation miserable, so stop. You preach to people who have names and you know their stories. I look around the room. You always have. And I just admire that a lot. And I think it translates. It lands in that way. And so I just would encourage you that Man, having handled a few hard texts Not near as many as you've had to You just do it so well You just have such a really pastoral gift in that And I think it blesses our church I definitely want people to know That the label of divorce is not the biggest label in their life Honestly, even if it was your fault You know? But we live in a culture now, dude People sort of like divorce parties You know that? Like it's celebrated this isn't good now now i do i can make a very easy clear case where there is abuse abandonment and infidelity but even not the abuse one and it's hard to stay married if somebody just leaves but it's still not the first reaction even the infidelity you got to think about it like what god has joined together okay so what you're talking out as an amputation. You are going to cut away half of you. This is a last resort. You know, still Jesus is saying you're not sinning, but you just want to make, listen, the people, I have names in my mind right now. The people have come to me that wanted to get divorced. And I don't know why they wanted to talk to me because they know what I'm going to say. But what I was hoping for them, one, I'm hoping for a miracle because if the tomb is empty, anything is possible. And God is still in the miracle business. If he can breathe new life in his dead son, he could breathe new life into a broken marriage. Okay. Even that being said, some of them that end in divorce, what I was hoping for the person is that they could lay their head on the pillow at night with a clean conscience before the Lord and said, I went the extra mile. Like, I really, I didn't see this as like, well, I'm out because you broke the rule. And so now I am justified to leave because you're never because the moment you try to justify your actions, man, that's different than the justification Christ purchases for you on the cross. And at the end I went through the list We are all the failures in these things towards God We've made him angry We have commodified him Tried to use him like a genie to get what we want We have been unfaithful to him We have broken promises to him We have backhanded him to the face in our rebellion We were an enemy and in every one of those he loved us so that's got to be the first foot and i and i could so if you're in a terrible struggling marriage that may end in divorce divorce one day out if you're being abused separation is immediate and you call the police and you call a counselor and you call your church and they should all work together to help you so we're not talking about that But if there's been sexual immorality Forgiveness is still possible And if it ends in divorce You just want to be able to lay your head on the pillow at night And be like, Lord, I did every As far as it was up to me I tried to live at peace But it was There was no future, it was dead One of my closest friends went through a terrible situation His wife committed adultery And Very early in their marriage Terrible situation And Had every legal right Had every And she just resolved in her mind That she was divorcing him It's one of the few situations I've ever run into Where it was like 95% 5% You know And Even up until the like Last second at the table He's begging please, is there any way we can not sign these papers and we can work through this? I mean, up until the – and she just dug in like a tick. It's just – but I just – super hard. I can't even imagine all the complication and emotion in that. But my respect for him was like, bro, only the power of God at work in somebody's life. I mean, that's Jose and Comer stuff, the way he was doing, man. It's real. And we say it all the time If the tomb is empty Anything is possible We've got story after story after story Of divorces That ended up getting remarried Here Because the gospel got involved after the divorce And there will be testimony videos of this coming up No question about it Also this shocks people sometimes When they're going through a divorce And they like what do I do And I say never stop fighting for your spouse regardless of what the legal paperwork says you still love her like Christ loved the church Even if it was your fault or it was her fault or whoever fault it was you take the responsibility of the husband And so if one day legally you are the ex-husband, you'd be the best ex-husband ever, like you should still just be grace upon grace. And you never stop fighting for your children, not with them and not fighting with your spouse for your kids. You fight for their hearts, you fight for time with them, and you continuously pursue. One of the things I try to encourage folks with, and maybe I'll encourage somebody listening, is there's the old adage, misery loves company. Sometimes when you're going through a hard time in your marriage, what's easy and even at times most accessible is other divorced people. And so you go and start getting marriage advice from other divorced people. And I'm not saying God can't speak through that. I would just offer, get most of your advice from people who you think and have seen are in the healthiest marriages. Go to them versus going to people who have walked through or are walking through really similar trauma. You know, who you go to and give your ear to because you can easily create an echo chamber, if you will, unintentionally. And so whether that's angry people can find angry people and angry people can't help angry people out of anger. And people that are in a marriage mess, they can love each other and encourage one another. They can't really help each other. Help somebody else out of the marriage mess. If you're in a marriage mess, you know, healthy people need to help unhealthy people. I guess it's the thing that I'm. Yeah, I mean, all of us are recruiting people to something. You need to ask, what are these people recruiting me to? I've heard story after story after story of a couple. And like a neighbor is a recently divorced guy. And then the husband starts hanging out with him and he's recruiting him to that life. That kind of thing. You know what I mean? That's exactly what I'm talking about. No. So. So then you ask, what are we recruiting to? We're recruiting to this We're recruiting to let's try to live in God's world God's way I'm trying to recruit people to Jesus Recruit people to the abundant life Recruit people to forgiveness To peace And love And unity And a promise keeping God And not retaliation But forgiveness This is what we're trying to recruit people to Can we turn to the next One of the things I think you preached on tonight jesus's words and i think i've only ever maybe heard you teach on it this way but i've really never heard that many people teach on it well at least and it's the turn the other cheek thing i thought the way you handled that was really really good i think it's worth another lap because i think it is so counterintuitive to the wishy-washy watered down jesus that people have taught you're talking about insult versus attack 100 that's it well i made up the words but oh so good so literally if you backhanded me in the face right now like you did stone that one time that's it on accident we love you stoner no doubt it was an accident then i actually should not swing back if you're not attacking me if you're just insulting me you know but if you're attacking me I owe it to my family to stay on that wall. And you don't get to take me out that way. I am an autonomous image bearer of God and worth defending. And for sure, if you're attacking the people that are under my stewardship, if somebody comes to this church to fight, I'm going to fight them. But when the guys are out there picketing that one time, insulting me, I don't get to go insult back. So the question is, what are you defending? If you have to be physical in defense, what are you defending? So if I'm defending my own ego, which is actually my insecurity because I've been insulted, you're not supposed to do that. If I'm actually defending image bearers of God, whether that be legally or physically or politically, we should fight. That's the difference. Because the reality is that violence in this broken world is necessary. And nobody is an actual pacifist. They just outsource their violence. like like a person that's like well i just you know i'm a christian so there's no way i would have a gun and i would never fight back what's my breaks in your house what you're gonna do well you're gonna call the police and outsource that violence but the reality is is that it's gonna take them a couple minutes to get there so what are you gonna do while they're taking advantage of your wife pray for him i know man the the person that does not provide for his family That doesn't just mean food and clothes. That means provision and protection. Then you're not doing your job. And so where I would need to grow is when I get insulted or even physically confronted, my flesh wants to react. And you've got to respond in love. And love is action towards something that matters. you know but if i react then all i'm doing is i'm reenacting an evil with another evil and we're not supposed to do that this is where like where your dad taught you a wild bill yeah so so in when it comes to insults and accusations your dad wild bill said no you don't need to defend yourself because either they're right you got something to learn or they're wrong and god is your defender he did man i was In my 20s. It's a long story, but I'll be short because of time. I was in my 20s. I was working at a church, a young church, four years. It was going pretty good, and the lead pastor just went off the rails, wrote the letter and the whole thing. I'm 27, 28 years old, and kind of our overseeing body called me up, and they were like, hey, we let him go. The lead pastor is no longer the lead pastor. We're not sure what we're going to do next, but if you just hold it together and we'll let you know. I'm like 27. There's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. The only thing I can think is to start calling the leaders and the key volunteers and people of the church and sitting with them and just trying to minister to them and do my best to try to explain what has happened and keep there from being confusion. and just in you know division well i'm the only one and it just is brutal you know what i mean and i'm taking it very personally even though i didn't really have anything to do with it and that's when i called my dad on the phone i'm like dad and he's like look man you do not need to defend yourself and if you did something wrong then the holy spirit will convict you And you should own that and repent To whomever and wherever appropriate He goes but if you're in the right The Lord will defend you in his time That one thing Has changed everything about everything About everything in my life My marriage I try like crazy not to defend myself In my marriage It's the one place that I still do Yeah I've got a lot going on We were talking about this earlier You said this We were having a meeting with a staff. This was early on. This was 10 years ago probably. Yeah. And you said that. And I was like, holy moly. So we get done with the meeting. I don't do it in the meeting, but I'm like, dude, can we talk about that for a minute? I defend myself all the time because I'm convinced if I can convince you of my intentions and what I know, then you'll understand what I do. It's never worked one time in my whole life. Makes sense logically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what I thought of is apparently there are at least some people like on – they have TikTok channels right now that are pointing out things about me online that are untrue. They're just factually untrue. They'll put the thing up and be like, look at this, and it's about my net worth and stuff. Well, right under it says I was born in 1982. Well, I was born in 1973. three. So it'd be so easy to dig in and, and point that at, you know what I mean? Right. And they'd be like, okay, if that one's wrong, don't you think these other claims might be wrong too? Like it doesn't have the right place. I went to school, doesn't have the right place. Gretchen, I got married. It doesn't, um, it's got a lot of facts about Rick Warren under my name. I've never even lived in California anyway. And then I just go, well, it's just an untrue insult untrue insult so just the lord will do what he does with it but i know it's not true so i mean it's like my daddy said it's that's like wrestling a pig man everybody gets dirty and the pig likes it that's it that's right so you just don't do it but that is not my norm that is not my instinct at all it's not the same thing as it's not saying don't be be a doormat Not at all. That's the turn of the other cheek. So exactly. If you read Henry Cloud, right? Boundaries. Is that it? OK. There's a lot of like boundary stuff in here that turn the other cheek is like, no, I'm a human being. And you will address me as a man, you know, and you don't have endless cheeks either. Right. That thing goes from insult to abuse. You're gonna be like, no, we don't do that. You don't treat me this way. that that has a lot to do with it and you've got to know where you end and somebody else begins and a boundary is not a wall the problem when you so in our current over therapeutic world the the problem is is that we use the buzzword of mental health to try to get out of anything hard because it's bad for my mental health that's actually just mental fragility mental health means I can walk through hard things. And if something bugs me, I don't avoid it. I need to learn how to step through it. And so the idea of boundaries, because what a lot of people are taught today, especially like college kids and safe spaces and the trigger words getting overused and stuff is you avoid those things at all costs. So I put up a wall. The problem with the wall is no good can come in and even worse, no bad can get out. And so you see people breaking family relationships over political parties. Bro, this is not good. The boundaries that Henry Cloud talks about, which Jesus exemplifies, Jesus is like, I'm leaving y'all right now. I'm going on that mountain to be by myself. Don't you come with me. I need to go be with the Father. That's a boundary. But it's like a fence with a gate. And you determine what you're going to let in and out. And that's the difference. Amen. That's what I thought of. We need to wrap up, but with the loving your enemies thing, I thought about like politics because so many people today, like I have to have agreement first, you know, it's like it's everything's contingent upon. And then maybe there's a fear that if I reach out and love, it's almost as if I'm giving agreement to something I disagree with. So could you close with like some, some practical helps for navigating that? Here's Jesus is again, this is the way I ended the sermon. If we could, if our operating system could get set on. So how did God treat you? That's how I want you to treat people. So when we were an enemy of God, what did he do? So what is it? Matthew 9, he's going to say, I ain't looking for sacrifice. I'm looking for mercy. So when something politically happens and all the Christian podcasters go out and just start throwing darts at the other side. Jesus is like imagine could you just put yourself in their seat for a minute because here's every time I've had enough sense to actually do this and dig down deep when somebody does something that I think is just absolutely wrong what I begin to learn is I bet if I grew up the way they grew up and I bet if I had the relationship with my dad that they have or don't and I bet if I'd been treated that way by a church, you know what I mean? Then I might think outside of the Spirit of God changing me, I'd probably think what they think. And it can give you a little bit of compassion and mercy for somebody instead of judgment. Because in Matthew 9, the Pharisees, what they're doing is like, this isn't fair. You know what we've done? You know how much we've given up to follow after you? And Jesus is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. See, that's the problem. You think you're up here with me on the judgment seat looking down on the people that haven't done. No, no, no. When you begin to realize that you could be a recipient of mercy, then you could allow yourself to say, but by the grace of God, there go I. Yeah. Yeah, I was with Pastor Ben Williams recently, and he said that. He's like, I've received so much grace. I can give some grace out. You know, so good. Jeff Foxworthy, one of my favorite things he says, man. I've got to know him pretty good. Everything he says, it's humorous, but it's so true. As we were talking, I was just in Atlanta two weeks ago or something, praying at the Dallas Safari Club. So I get out of the airport and I get on the highway. It's the Jeff Foxworthy Highway. So I holler at him like, bro, did you ever think you'd have a paved road with your name on it? I was just trying to think of like a redneck thing to say. And he was like, man, I'm going to tell you, I'm about three decisions away from hanging drywall for the rest of my life. You know what I mean? That is a humble way to look at things. Like it's just by the grace of God that and his indwelling spirit that he this is what he would say, that I've made some decisions that have landed me where I've landed. And I mean, all of us have that thing in us that could derail us in one second. Yeah. Amen. Well, thank you, Pastor. I didn't even know how long it was because I was enthralled. It was amazing. So thank you for the sermon. There's so much we could talk about, but we're out of time. So let's pray it up. Yeah, man. Shout out to the people at 1122. Amen. I mean people they say nice things to me that's fine but you realize this is the easiest group of people to teach the Bible to because there's they I mean it is fertile soil I'm saying some of the hardest things and I see I see people dealing with anger and divorce and whatever and they're just receiving it with like the seed that lands on fertile So this thing is a it's not a conversation because, you know, but it is a total two way street in the giving and receiving of the word. So there's no way I would have the ability to do this if it's just a bunch of stonewall faces. So thank you. All right. Let's pray. Father in heaven, Lord, we love you because you love us first. And God, would you give us eyes to see ourselves the way you see us? and would you give us a spirit-filled ability to love others the way you have loved us. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you for listening to the podcast. The reality is everything already belongs to God. 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