Hi, it's Dr. Jen Kennedy. I'm a sexologist and couples therapist. The Pleasure Project podcast is about sex and relationships. So this includes discussions on desire, dysfunction, dissatisfaction, exploration of all things sex related. So sometimes I'll do toy reviews and we'll look at trends. And sometimes I'll also enlist other experts. We'll increase your insight and enhance your pleasure. So tune in. You know that story we've all been told that desire is supposed to just happen. One look, one kiss, one slow motion movie moment, and suddenly you're both consumed by passion. Yeah, that might work in Hollywood, but in real life, most of us are just trying to remember if we switch the laundry. Today, we're talking about the myth of spontaneous desire, this idea that you should just feel turned on out of nowhere. The truth is for many women, desire doesn't strike like lightning. It builds like warmth. It comes after connection, relaxation, touch, and sometimes after a conscious choice to invite it in. So if you've ever thought, what's wrong with me? Why don't I feel it? Stay with me. You're not broken. You just haven't learned how to turn yourself on yet. That's exactly what we're diving into today. So join me in this episode. When was the last time you felt turned on without effort? This is a pretty common frustration. We're told desire should just happen. Like there should be like a light switch, right? But for most women especially, it's more like a dimmer that kind of needs some warmth, some attention, maybe a glass of wine. I don't know about you, but like I have this conversation over and over again with myself and with others certainly in my office about desire. How does it happen? Spontaneous or responsive? So we're going to unpack this today because I've have found that this is something that really mystifies a lot of people, including me over the years. Like what causes desire? What happens like that makes me feel desirous? When do I want sex? When do I feel amorous? And some people can just tap into it. I have a really good friend who seems like she always can be sexual. Like she just, it's very accessible for her. She's easily turned on. She can name it. She is just, she just exudes that sensuality and I'm like kind of jealous. And I wonder what is that about? And I recognize that for most of us women especially, but men too, we aren't typically so spontaneous in our desire. We're more responsive. We respond to stimuli. So looking at this sort of option, I want to tell you that you are not broken. You are human. This is actually super normal. So kind of looking at what happens with spontaneous desire, the idea that you're supposed to just feel it like you're supposed to be able to on a dime, just kind of want it. Now I will disclose that recently I've been taking testosterone for probably the last seven weeks. I put it on my inner wrist, like not just they say wrist, but there's a lot of it. So I put it like on my whole inner arm every morning. And I did it sort of as a, as an experiment to see if it would make me feel more desirous. I would say I feel a little bit more so. It's more helping with energy. But I'm 52. And I've been like, I've noticed a little dip in my energy, as well as in my desire. And I was like, will this help? I want to test it out. So I think it's pretty normal as we hit in that perimenopause period of time. But also like, there's a lot of factors at work for most women. Stress of course is playing in, but also hormones are a factor. Right? What else is going on in your life? How's your relationship doing? Right? We're always looking at all these different factors. So spontaneous desire isn't always available. And that's in part because we have to get stuff done. We've got families, we've got lives. But also what what is happening chemically in your body makes a difference. So we have to look at multiple things. And one of the things I always like to consider is research. So Rosemary Basson looked at she introduced this model and she looked at desire from the perspective of what happens when desire emerges once arousal and connection are already underway. And I think that's really important. So now historically, Masters and Johnson who are old school, and I do love them too, they brought us the Sensei model, which I use a lot. But Basson introduced sort of a different variation on the model that we were already looking at. Masters and Johnson kind of had this linear model that said desire comes first, then arousal, arousal meaning your body responds physiologically, right? So blood flow happens, which for a man would mean that blood flow happens, erection happens, that type of thing. For a woman, you notice like your nipples get hard, you your mouth might get dry, your eyes widen, right? There's some physiological things that happen with arousal, orgasm, and then resolution. That does work for some people, especially those who experience spontaneous desire. That also happens typically for younger people, it's just sort of automatic, the whole thing just kind of goes. However, Basson proposed a circular model. So that tends to be oftentimes what the women I interact with in my course, in my when I've led the Pleasure Project as like a six week class, that's this is more what works for them because they're more looking at a responsive desire model. So in this, instead of just having like this, like, you know, switch of a light switch, where it's like, Oh, I want this. I mean, yes, that does happen. It happens for me sometimes where I feel like, Oh, something I'm turned on. But I will say that even what seems to be spontaneous desire is typically still responsive to stuff, desire, I'm responding to something, something I thought, something I saw, something I remembered, something I created in my own mind, right? Something I interacted with, even if it was a flash of a second, maybe it didn't register that I interacted with this thing. But typically, it was still a response to a stipuli of some sort, even if it was self created. However, it gets labeled spontaneous because it happens so quickly. So that kind of horniness or that like feeling of suddenly I want this seems like it came out of nowhere, but it actually didn't. So just notice that next time when you're sort of feeling amorous, and maybe that amorous for you comes on when you're like, I'm going to self stimulate, right? You're just like, I just want this. How did you know you wanted it? Like what happened that triggered you wanting it? Was it the time of day? Was it a thought that passed through your mind? Like, again, notice what led you to get to that point of knowing that you wanted it, because it's interesting, right? That's all part of what we're trying to slow down and look at here. So in Basan's model, we're looking at like the emotional intimacy or willingness. Because part of what we're trying to understand here is that instead of starting with desire, which is what Masters and Johnson did, we're actually looking at something more nuanced. We're looking at neutrality when you're either in a neutral place. So you're not like a hard yes, but you're not a hard no either. You're not like a yes, yes, I want it, but you're not a hard no either. You're sort of in this neutral place. Or there's a general willingness. So you're like, maybe. And I think a lot of us are like, in that space when we're sort of a, I'm not going to say no, but I'm not a resounding yes to sex, right? So there's a willingness. You might not feel horny, but you're open to the possibility of connection or pleasure. Okay. So oftentimes, that's when foreplay is really important, because that's when you can be responsive to what's happening with your partner, or what's happening in your world, or what happens in your mind next, right? So emotional intimacy or willingness, you may not feel desire initially, but you're open to sexual or emotional connection. And that might look like I want to feel close to my partner, or I want to relax. And so I know that if I masturbate, I will feel more relaxed, or I will be able to sleep, or I know that if we have some sexual play, I will feel closer to my partner tonight, tomorrow, the next day, whatever. Right. So there's intimacy, willingness. Next is like the sexual stimuli or arousal. So that looks like short fantasy or emotional connection and physical closeness. Something begins to awaken the arousal piece. So if there's a neutrality and a willingness, and then touch starts to happen, sexually relevant information starts to happen in the way of caress or emotional connection, meaning like eye contact, eye gazing, or physical closeness of any sort body to body contact, anything like that starts to happen. And your body's like, Oh, this feels kind of nice. I'm starting to respond. Right. This is kind of the foreplay where you start to your mind starts to go, I'm moving out of neutrality, maybe towards more positivity, it's starting to feel like something I want. Right. That's the responsiveness is starting to happen is starting to awaken. So arousal is both physical, which is the blood flow, the lubrication, the sensation and psychological mental focus and imagination. That makes sense. Okay. So next, in the son's model, we look at responsive desire starts to emerge. Right. Once arousal, which is the physiological piece starts, then desire starts to follow. We feel the flow of blood. Right. We start to maybe feel a little pulsing. We start to, I mean, physiologically, what happens is we start to engage with blood, but it starts to feel hot and in our genitals. And we start to feel excitement and some building and there's maybe some craving for touch or for penetration can also be happening. So there's this wanting for touch or for interaction or for kind of that mounting pleasure that's sort of like going to happen. So it's the anticipatory excitement and the desire starts to build. You start to want the experience that you're having. Right. So the neutrality is really moving towards the yes. And the, yeah, so that it's leaning into that. So it's not spontaneous, it's responsive, but to the pleasure and to the connection. And the connection could be to another or it could be to self. So next is enhanced intimacy and satisfaction. So the sexual experience, whether physical or emotional and or emotional leads to feelings of closeness, pleasure and well-being. And then lastly, motivation for future connection. So because this has been a positive reinforcing cycle, those positive feelings then feed into a feedback loop. Right. So making you more likely to engage in the future because this worked out, because this felt good, because it paid off with positive physical and psychological and emotional rewards, then you don't, you kind of want more of it and you got the payoff. So it's interesting though, because actually personally, even within this model, this makes sense to me, but I sort of equate it to the gym where even though I got the payoff and I always feel good when I'm driving away from the gym, I'm like, that felt so great. Why don't I do that more? The next morning, I still feel like I don't really want to go. I don't, I don't really want to go to the gym. And I have that, that thing all over again, where I sort of have to bargain with myself. So I haven't totally installed the motivation piece fully with myself. Interesting, right? So desire doesn't always lead to arousal, but often arousal can lead to desire. Does that make sense? Let me say that again. Desire doesn't always lead to arousal, meaning I want this, that doesn't always immediately lead to physiological change, but the arousal, once your body starts to respond, does lead to desire because your body is giving you cues. Like if you're, if you're starting to get those, those physical cues of wanting, then your mind is like, ooh, yes. Right. Once your body knows it's turned on, then your mind knows it's turned on. It's like the body takes the lead. So that matters because women especially wait for desire kind of to lead and they know this, like they know this, this is what keeps them safe for the world. And women wait for desire because it leads connection or disconnection and it kind of creates this cycle. So I also see that it's tricky because if you wait for desire to just sort of happen to you, it might never come. If you wait to feel inspired, it might never happen. So instead of waiting for desire to visit, you might have to invite it in. So let's take a quick break and I'm going to tell you how to invite it in. A quick pause here to share something that I've been working on that I think you will really appreciate, especially if you've ever felt confused or disconnected from your sexual desire. It's a self-paced course that I created for women who want a better understanding of their sexual desire, especially if it's felt confusing, inconsistent or hard to access. A lot of us are taught that desire should just be there, effortless, spontaneous, always on, but that is not the reality for most people. And when it's not, it can leave you feeling frustrated or like something is wrong with you. If you've ever felt turned on one day and completely disconnected the next, or if you've struggled to say what you really want sexually, if you're both excited by the idea of vibrant sex and hesitant about what that even looks like, this course is for you. Desire is complex. It lives in your brain just as much as your body. And in this course, I guide you through the understanding of your unique relationship to it without pressure, shame or performance. You'll get short videos and guided worksheets to help you map out your personal erotic template, identify what turns you on and off and what shuts you down, understand the blocks might be getting in your way, reconnect with your body, and you'll explore your sexual self with more confidence and curiosity. You can go at your own pace. You don't need to want more sex. You just need to want to know yourself better. So if this resonates, then head on over to pleasureproject.us and learn more and enroll in the course. Now back to the episode. Okay, so welcome back. So let's look at how to turn yourself on, because in inviting desire in when it's not necessarily available to just have spontaneous desire, just be there on command, then it's required for you to know how to kind of turn yourself on. And I think this is helpful, whether you're by yourself or with a partner, because it's really useful if you can get yourself there too. Then your partnered experiences are going to go better as well. If your partner is a really good lover, awesome. If they're a mediocre lover, you're still going to have a good time. You're going to be able to show them better how to please you. You're going to guarantee that you're going to have a good time nevertheless. And so if you've ever been with somebody who is really embodied and knows how to please themself, it's awesome. It doesn't actually feel like an isolating experience. It feels like an intriguing experience, because you're watching them show you how to touch them. And it feels exciting to sort of watch them be aroused and know what they want and kind of give you a roadmap to themselves. So it's a very good thing if you know this. And defining kind of what turns you on, it's not just sexual, it's energetic, it's emotional, it's kind of a sensory awakening, I would say. Examples, if you start to drop in, you know yourself better than anybody. And this isn't just a physical thing we're talking about. So initially think about it from a broader sense. So movement, what kind of movements bring you into your more embodied self? Music is another pretty good one that reconnects you to your body. Movement could be dance, certainly. But it could also be, I mean, I love when people are doing any sort of like Tai Chi or yoga or any sort of embodied movement is helpful if you're an athlete of any sort. But also movement, you know, whatever kind of movement speaks to you is helpful that connects you into your body. But what about music? What kind of music kind of feels really good to you? And it's not always going to be the same kind of music. But what music do you like to listen to? It could be jazz, it could be Taylor Swift, it could be instrumental, it could be hard rock, it doesn't matter, it's whatever speaks to you, right? That just really gets you pumped up. Imagining something erotic or just something that makes you feel really alive. And again, that could be an activity, that could be any sort of experience that you've had. It could be teaching something, it could be rock climbing, right? It could be, it could be anything. What is it in your life that makes you feel really kind of in a mastery position, as well as just really curious and interested and alive and present? That's what I would say. That's sort of when you're in your best element. Other things that I find that can turn me on specifically is touch, scent, environment. So this is kind of bringing your senses in. So a tactile, you know, what kind of things do you like to touch? Like when I think of something really sensual to touch, it would be like a petal of a rose. Like if you think about the really super soft velvety touch and kind of that feeling of a rose petal, and this is just so sensual, or the scent, I'm really big on scent. I love like fresh, clean scent. I also really love nice perfumes. I'm very into scent, environment. I love outdoor. I love nature. I also love a really nice hotel room that is just sparkling clean. That makes me very happy. So think about what, what in your life feels good to you? Like what turns you on? And I don't even want to say it that directly. We could even be a little more broad of what makes you in a more receptive place. Like what makes you feel like you can relax, that you can sort of be present, and be open. Like what, what primes you to be more in that place. What also is something that brings you emotional connection or laughter, emotional connection to other, emotional connection to yourself. Maybe that's journaling. Maybe that's taking a long walk on the beach. Maybe that's prayer. Maybe that's meditation. What is your thing? Like you know your life. You know what centers you best. What is your practice? Do you have one? What is, what is that for you? And then I, I included laughter here because we can't take ourselves too seriously, right? And if you're trying to be in a place of connection to self and other, this is going to also be important and play is also critical because turning yourself on is about cultivating a liveness, learning how to bring yourself into contact with your own pleasure and vitality. So this is not automatic, right? It's, it's a practice. It's like mindfulness or exercise. And I'm going to encourage you to be curious and notice what conditions support your desire. So this is, this is a little bit of a hunting expedition. Like find what turns you into a more alive version of yourself because responsive desire is about receptivity. It's about being in a, in a headspace where you're just more open, more interested, more willing. It's not like, I mean, I feel like the conditioning of porn is like I see something, I want something. That's too fast. It's too fast and it's too harsh. Like we're going for something that is a little more organic and that is quieter. And so can your mind tolerate a slower, quieter version? Does it want that other type of turn on? That's, that's what I'm going for. That's what I'm aiming for. And so, you know, what helps you feel alive and, and even, you know, receptive slash turned on by life itself. Desire, because desire isn't something you sort of wait for. It's something you make room for, if that makes sense, right? You, you invite it in, you allow it, you, it's a sensuality. It's a, it's an inclusion. So hopefully this is landing for you. And if it has resonated, try it out. See if you can expand your world in this way. See if you can invite some of this in. I would love to hear if this resonated, then let me know. Share this with a friend. If you've been wondering kind of where the spark went, then try it out. Try to see if you can create, or tune in, or tap into some of your own responsive desire and see if it elicits, if it allows. And I'm curious, I'm curious to see what, what arises for you. So yeah, thanks so much. I would love, love to hear your feedback. All right. Please follow us on Instagram and I will talk to you soon. Hey, it's Dr. Jen. Thanks so much for tuning in. Please leave us a review and leave a comment if something struck you. We'd love to get the feedback. It really helps the podcast. And if you want to reach me, go ahead and direct message me on Instagram, or you can reach me at Jen at revieretherapy.com. Thanks.
