Texans Trades, Maxx’s Market and Biggest Offsseason Questions

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents, the podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts. To my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search 40s and free agents, and listen now. Welcome to NFL Daily, where the trade tsunami has begun. I'm Greg Rosenthal, here in Los Angeles with a couple of friends that I'm not next to. Ollie Connolly is in Manchester. Patrick Claibon is actually in the Red Zone studio right now in Inglewood, California. And he is telling me it's a terrible idea to tape from there because a tour just walked in as we started taping. Are they still, you're going to have to unmute here for a second, Patrick. Are they still conducting the tour as I throw it to you? Yes, Greg, I can confirm that, Ollie. It's good to see you. Okay, we're going to mute Patrick again. We're going to assume that they don't stay in there just showing the different spots where, you know, Scott Hansen spittle hit the ground for like 20 minutes and that we can get Patrick into the show. But I mentioned the trade tsunami, Ali. You know, we weren't sure if we're doing a show today. And I thought, look, the regular season is the next two weeks. In the next two weeks, we're going to basically get all the news that we end up talking about and reanalyzing for the next six months. And I was like, things are going to start happening. And we got some trades. So we're going to ask some big questions about this offseason, and we're going to talk about the trades and the Houston Texans delivered for us. How are you doing post-combine, by the way? I'm doing good post-combine. Still digging through the minds of these draft prospects, and I peek my head above the parapet for like 10 minutes and trades are going off all over the place. Yes, and I just expect like a slow, steady drumbeat of news all up until next Sunday when we just start going daily. We're going to be live with a lot of shows. Excited to tell you about all our plans for that. But let's talk about those Texans trades right off the bat. So two deals. David Montgomery is going from the Detroit Lions to the Houston Texans. The Houston Texans also send Titus Howard to the Browns. Titus Howard, the offensive lineman who's played guard, who's played right tackle. We'll take these two moves separately, but I did want to just say kind of they're two Texans moves. Now, the David Montgomery trade terms. The Lions get a fourth, a late fourth, a seventh, and Juice Scruggs, who was a second round pick three years ago. I don't know if he was a lock to make the Texans or if he's totally a lock to make the Detroit Lions, who he's now traded to. I'm going to take the risk and throw this to Patrick Claiborne and hope that the tour is over. Are they still in the room? Because when this trade happened, Patrick, my son celebrated a Texans fan like they and a huge David Montgomery fan like they just won the Super Bowl. He ran around. He screamed and yelled. Did you have as much enthusiasm? Do you think it'll help the Texans that much? Yes, Greg. Confirmed. As I unmuted, and yes, Sarah Riles, our esteemed director, was giving a tour. Because everybody's got multiple facets here. Everybody does multiple things. And they came through. They got out pretty quick. I mean, the NFL, we don't make enough money on these deals. It's the tour money that actually really locks it in. I guess that's maybe going straight to SoFi if we really broke it down. But what do you think about this? I thought it was a lot for David Montgomery. It's a lot for David Montgomery. David Montgomery is a good football player. Wanted to see him in a nice landing spot where we're thinking about the Houston Texans because initially the trade is Lions send David Montgomery to Houston. And it's like, OK, that's interesting because we fought and we scratched and clawed to get the Texans to have some sort of semblance of normal on the offensive line. And Titus Howard was a part of that at multiple positions. He missed two games combined in the last two years. And you find out that he's the guy that's going back. And you just wonder what the ultimate plan is, what the run game is going to look like, because Woody Marks kind of came on late. You get some more explosion with David Montgomery, but there's still these lingering questions like, what is the ad now going to be up front to facilitate David Montgomery playing well for the Houston Texans? Yeah, it's bizarre. So Titus Howard is going to the Browns. That one happened first, and you thought, okay, that's interesting for a fifth-round pick. And then you hear, Ali, that David Montgomery is going to the Texans for a fifth round pick. Then 30 minutes later, we find out actually David Montgomery is going to go for more than a fifth round pick. It's going to be a fourth, a seventh and juice Scruggs. And when this happens, it's usually because a team out there in the wilderness saw the deal going down and contacts the team and says, actually we could do better than that for you and then the trade terms uh happen i think that is what happened here who knows who that who that team you know stepping in was but like it is very confusing to me that the texans get rid of a guy who i thought was coming off his best season and is getting big time money from the browns and titus howard and then uh they they hurt their offensive line in theory on a day where they helped to solve their the running back problem yeah very strange for the Texans, I think, the second year in a row where they just move on from their most dependable offensive linemen after having a bad offensive line. And it's just, it seems like they are really comfortable each offseason just completely resetting the O-line and thinking you can figure it out on the fly. And that plan has failed two years in a row. So I find that concerning. Even just going insane, we're going to trade some like legit assets, not huge assets, but legit assets for David Montgomery at 29 with 1,500 carries in his career. Oh, and by the way, we've stripped our offensive lineback. the teams that would have been out there in the wilderness that you're talking about greg are probably teams who feel they are a complementary back a one or two down back a game away from raising from maybe middling to upper level of offense to push them into the next tier i would guess that's just not where the texans are at they don't have the foundational pieces even really in place i think to to maximize montgomery and i just think marx is frankly at this point you could say over the next 12 months a better overall player. Wow. But you need two. I just was hoping that it would be like Kenneth Walker and Woody Marks or Travis Etienne and Woody Marks. And you could get a little rejuvenated David Montgomery. I actually thought he looked pretty good last year, despite the numbers. He stayed consistent in general during his Detroit run. But this is going to be like a tougher place to run well, of course. The contract's actually a plus. He's making $6 million this season. I assume they're not going to renegotiate that. So that's a relatively low cost. If they looked at the market out there and thought Travis Etienne was maybe going to cost too much or they didn't want to get in the Kenneth Walker business, I just wanted a little bit more. But David Montgomery proved me wrong many years ago when I questioned the fact that him and Gibbs, whether he would be that much of an upgrade off their previous regime. And they proved to be like the best one to punch in the league. I do like just from a fantasy angle to Patrick, that like when Dan Campbell took over play calling, I felt like the biggest thing he did was like, let's just give Jameer Gibbs all the touches that David Montgomery used to get. And Jameer Gibbs just went absolutely nuclear the rest of the year. So like more Jameer Gibbs as they're about to pay him a lot of money also makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. The question is, do you want to give Jameer Gibbs that volume of carries? Obviously, I think they were at their best when they're sharing carries. And, you know, Jameer has that opportunity to get those breaks to provide that explosion that makes him so valuable. Where you hope the Lions aren't saying, well, now that we're going to pay Jameer, it's just going to, we're going to grind him into pace. That's not what I want to see because I want, obviously, the single fantasy season, right? We all enjoy it. I would like six, seven, eight more years of Jameer Gibbs. So it's one of those give and take type things. Yeah, it's tricky too. I do. I just want to see what's behind door number two. It just feels like a really big push year for the Texans. They also have some big contracts that they have to give out. Will Anderson, that deal is coming soon. But I'm just curious what's going to be behind door number two in terms of this offensive line build. Maybe they're close to a deal with Ed Ingram, who was pretty good for them last year and is a free agent guard. maybe as uh our friend steve palazzolo speculated like is it trent williams like level trade coming for houston where they go crazy like all of these moves at this time of year you kind of have to wait to see like the final piece i want to see the final terms on this titus howard contract for the browns because supposedly it's a three-year 60 million dollar extension 20 million dollars a year for titus howard but it's an extension like how much of that is guaranteed most likely it's really like a two-year deal. It's an extension. So without knowing the details, we don't know. But we went into this offseason, Ali. The Cleveland Browns and Andrew Barry needed five starting offensive linemen. They have one, and he can play multiple positions. So four to go. Let's go, Browns. The money will be interesting, I think, because they put themselves over the barrel by having five spots to fill. He can fill multiple spots. That's, I think, the beauty of trading for Titus out is he can play right tackle, right guard, left guard, has played all three in the past season and I think it's just a dependable one-on-one player not a star not a grinder in the run game but probably an upgrade in terms of just reliability snap to snap on a lot of the guys they've had in recent seasons yeah sometimes with these running backs too you get a a little pop you're in a new a new spot I'm not saying he wasn't like doing his best for Detroit but it wouldn't surprise me if we see like the very best of David Montgomery for one more season like a James Conner to Arizona type of year and that this reflects fine in the long run. All right, let's move on. Juwan Taylor is an ex-Kansas City Chief. We thought that this was going to happen. They could save $20 million against the cap for what I would call a mediocre starting tackle and a guy who ultimately wasn't worth the money for them and wasn't really that great a move for them. We'll put a pin in that because I know you have some Chiefs talk later when we ask some big questions, Ollie. The Bengals re-signed Dalton Reisner for $5 million. That's good business, I think. A one-year deal for Dalton Reisner, who played pretty well for them last year. Don't even let him get to free agency. That was a big concern for them. And then the one just little speculation article I just wanted to hit you guys on that I liked, because there's a lot of just buzz happening right now. But I liked from SNY in New York that the Giants are reportedly ready to make a big push for Kenneth Walker. And we might as well start our segment now because I don't see any other like hard news out there. And one of my questions was going to be like, where does Kenneth Walker land? Because I'm a I'm a simple man. I I look at the big shiny objects. If you have a Super Bowl MVP, like a reigning Super Bowl MVP available in free agency that can change. That's one of the most exciting players to watch in the league. Like I am fascinated by where he is going to go. The Giants would be a curveball. They obviously have Cam Scadaboo, but he's coming off a major injury. So that just like lets you know, maybe Patrick, how they are thinking. So what do you think about Ken Walker to the Giants? And I don't know if you have any just in general, Ken Walker destination thoughts. I have some too, but why don't you get us started? Yeah, I like Kenneth Walker to the Giants. I think that's fun. I think he's been able to, he's shown that he can have success on the biggest stages, which is why it's very important that he plays in New York City, or at least adjacent over there in New Jersey where the pressure is so much. I'm being facetious. I do think he could be successful as a runner there because the play style is really just something that can translate. I think the frustration, right, at least the frustration from the outside looking in was Kenneth Walker isn't necessarily always going to get all the yards that are blocked. He tries to hit these home runs. Well, he stepped to the plate and he hit them late and down the stretch and in the Super Bowl, and this is a guy who can have success. I question the way things could look in New York, but then I think about how are they going to deploy Jackson Dart? Is this full-on Dart in YOLO mode where he's putting himself at risk and they're going to have a lot of read option? Well, yeah, I think Kenneth Walker could be great there. Is that something that Coach Harbaugh is going to want to do with his second-year quarterback? I think that remains to be seen. he was blessed to have a quarterback who was very gifted at protecting himself in that situation and we go to the exact opposite there so I do think we will see Dart run how much they are going to do it and can they use Kenneth Walker in that capacity remains to be seen I would really like to see Ken Walker with the charges I think that would be maybe the most exciting spot you put in with the the mad crazy inventive guy with Mike McDaniel you if you're going to try and rebuild the offensive line I I would way rather bet on Ken Walker and we can turn bad block stuff into amazing plays. Even if he blows a few of the, you know, better, more creative stuff. As Patrick mentioned, he does leave some stuff on the table. I'd rather do that than try and go to the top end of the market for Tyler Linderbaum, which is kind of how they're looking at. We could completely reorient the run game. I'd rather just say, let's get competent to solid, to maybe slightly below average starters. Let's bet on Ken Walker, bring a real jolt of electricity to the backfield and have everyone in a complete panic about, is it Justin Herbert in the dropback game? or is it Mike McDaniel in the wizardry in the run game with Ken Walker? Yeah, my top 101 selections have gotten a lot of feedback. When you hear a certain buzz over the last week or two, you feel better about some rankings. You feel worse about others. I feel good about where I put Zion Johnson in the top 30 because if nothing else, I think NFL teams are going to agree. Even if he's not a complete player, it sounds like he's going to get a lot of money. I don't know if it's from the Chargers. So if he leaves and they cut Makai Becton, they would have three interior line spots to fill. They're kind of like where the Bears were last year. They have a ton of cap space. They're fascinating. I didn't think of them for Walker. That's a great shout out. I think Kansas City would be fun. I think Kansas City has been tied to Travis Etienne. Some sort of home run header for Kansas City would be fun. Denver would be fun And then other ones that just make sense to me of like teams that would actually spend the money it going to cost And it sounds like Seattle saw what Kenneth Walker price tag was going to be and was like wow I don think we can handle this Washington has so much cap space and I just feel like I could I could see them going for Kenneth Walker. And even though it doesn't really make sense for the Saints, it just seems like a Saints type of move. I could just absolutely, I don't want that for Kenneth Walker, but I could see him in New Orleans. Washington fascinates me. I don't know. Who do you like out of those possible destinations the most, Patrick, before I let you see off? I think Washington sounds good. I like the idea of Kenneth Walker being able to get the ball in space with a quarterback that can create and get him those that aren't necessarily drawn up and schemed up. That's the most readily accessible thing in my mind. And I think a healthy Jaden Daniels is going to be able to do that. But also, I do think watching him and Shuck play, Greg, would be fun. You know, a Saints team that's in contention in the division, it's not like you're – it feels like you've had to apologize to Mickey or felt like pushed towards an apology to Mickey. No, I'm not apologizing. And now you're running counter to the operation. But that could be fun. It's okay to feel like that would be fun. Okay, that would be fun. That would be fun. I just don't know. I hate the fact that it probably means the end for Alvin Kamara there. I don't know. They just gave him an extension a year ago, so then they take a cap hit. Could he just be the backup? I guess that could be fine. All right, let's move on. Let's move on to our segment, our questions, our big questions post-combine. This can be almost anything, but it's looking ahead mostly to free agency and this offseason, maybe how the combine impacted that. We could have some draft stuff in here. But as we set the table, I just see so much cap space and I see so many teams that I think are going to have to be ultra aggressive. And I think these trades on Monday, like a week before the tampering window opens, are a sign that we're just going to have a ton of trades because it it just makes more sense to improve your team that way when there's only so many good free agents out there. Ali, what what is your your first question you want to throw out? my number one is how will the chiefs replenish their offense both in maybe trying to find another rotational piece along the offensive line but then trying to chase fireworks i think that they're in this really unusual rare spot for a team who consider themselves in the mid-dynasty portion to wind up with a top 10 pick in the middle of mahomes's prime they probably never thought they would get that they probably don't think they'll ever be in that situation again and if you just look through the draft board and how it's falling you can go through the three ohio state guys Mendoza one or both of David Bailey or Ruben Bain and you start knocking out who could go and you quickly get to a short list of Jeremiah Love whether he goes early or not Kenyon Sadiq whether he goes early or not Carnell Tate who could also go higher or one of Bain or Bailey so one of those four guys is likely going to be available to them and I just wonder how all in they are in saying let's go chase fireworks in the offseason we don't have reliability a receiver Our tight end is aging. Our running back room stinks. Let's go and chase the through the roof prospect on the offensive side of the ball. I love that. But I hate that, you know, free agency comes first. So it's kind of like they're going to have to prioritize like where they see value most and where they think they can get affordable firepower in free agency. And if that's Travis Etienne now, then that kind of crosses off Jeremiah Love, you would assume. But this is such a rare opportunity to have that traffic. And yet, I can't think of a real analog for where they're at right now. Because because they have Patrick Mahomes, they're always going to be in the middle of their championship window. And yet, man, they have so many needs, I think, on this roster. They have some really great players, too, like outside of Mahomes and Creed Humphrey. and like you have a handful, but they have so many needs, Patrick, like because the defense just didn't have like a lot of juice last year. And they have so many of my top 101 free agents that are out there. Jalen Watson, Cook, obviously, at safety. Leo Chanel is a free agent. They just cut Juwan Taylor, which I think made sense, but that opens up another spot. Travis Kelsey is getting older. Is Rasheed Rice going to be available? It's just like so much stuff. it's really putting the onus on brett veach and andy reed to kind of like do it again and it's the hardest part of being great in the nfl yes and what makes that considerably harder is we expect mahomes to just come back and carry it but it's it's going to take time uh for him to be that that version of patrick mahomes which was the most dangerous runner like even late like later stage Patrick Mahomes was the most dangerous runner on this team where if it's if it's not ETN if it's if it's not love like what are they going to do like you can't bring this version of Kareem Hunt and have like Isaiah Pacheco clearly isn't it so there has to be some sort of love's not getting past the Saints I don't think but I don't know I guess you don't know though you're right it it's a good top 10 it's a good year to be ninth because it feels like tell me if I'm wrong, Ali, but it feels like, I don't know, there's a, there's like a, there are a bunch of good, like it's a good top of the draft. And yet then after, I feel like you don't want to be 15 in this draft or something. Am I crazy? No, that's right. There's like a really like ballooned middle class where from, and this happens almost in most draft cycles, particularly when you get the best players being at what's considered the non-premium positions and the league just can't help themselves because they consider off-ball linebacker or move defensive piece non-premium as they pass on Kyle Hamilton and Brian Branch and on and on down the list you go so if Styles and Arvel Reese are going to go as early as we expect then yeah and the two tackles one of the top tackles is probably going to go in there because the league can't help itself you suddenly will start getting to will the Chiefs have a cracker either Love or Sadiq but yeah you're right I think from 16 to 44 it's pretty much awash there's a lot of like rotational pass rushes do we love them don't we love them receivers who fit certain body types and certain skill sets so it's kind of eye of beholder by positional tier for a good round and a half yeah there's somebody somebody's there like you mentioned the litany of needs and just how it can impact kansas city somebody's going to be there uh at nine they conceivably could just go bpa uh which is what everybody you know in theory should be doing but they really can make a case for it. They could do that, Patrick, and I agree on the needs, but wouldn't you, if you're in that position, just say we have to chase blue chip at premium position. I know I just made fun of premium positions, but how often are they going to be in a position to draft someone? If he's there, someone like David Bailey, with that level of first step quickness, I really would if I was them to circle like four positions and say, let's just go shoot for the moon. We're not going to be here very often. We can go into Frenchie to find, you know, volatile cornerbacks who may have a career year with us for one year. then we move on from the following year. That's how I think I would approach it if I was there. They've got the blue-tip player at the premium position. Yeah, that's true. You're good in that capacity. There's a lot of talent that they're going to lose here in the next three to four years, where focusing on position seems like hustling backwards. And they got a premium player, we think, at a premium position at the end of the first round last year in Josh Simmons, who they are going to feel great about moving forward quickly. who's the quarterback you want though because of all these chiefs questions we just brought up like who is starting for them week one hasn't even come up i have now settled on i want it to be kirk's landing spot i don't know if that's going to work out it's it seems insane but i think that's like a perfect like actually kirk go win you some games for four or five weeks and then he's just like having fun as as patrick mahomes's backup i don't know if you're going to do better than that I think it has to be Marcus Mariota I think he's exactly what they want and will be efficient and stable enough and he may not win you the game but he's not going to throw the game away for you and Kirk probably I think has like two throws in him to maybe one week actually get you the game that you don't expect to get but not much more than that I think Kirk's going to want to have a real shot to be a starter somewhere Yeah, it's a real strike to my theory that Marcus Mariota is actually Alex Smith in a silicon mask where it makes too much sense for that But I've been saying Kyler Murray for months now, you know, just in the capacity of, yeah, there may be more money somewhere else. But Kyler could just, you know, throw up a middle finger to the establishment and play for the empire. That would that would be incredible. All right, Patrick, your first big question here. So first big question, looking through playoff teams and near playoff teams, trying to divide them up into who is simply trying to maintain, like the Seattle Seahawks, where they're facing big departures at cornerback and wide receiver, potentially, you know, the Rams trying to just keep on to this last few years or however long it's going to be of Matthew Stafford. And you kind of try to put the Eagles there, knowing their capacity to do so. And then the teams that are pushing, pushing towards building off of what they accomplished, like the Chicago Bears, the Patriots, the 49ers, potentially the chargers having that opportunity. And then I got to the Buffalo bills and, and I looked at their, you know, drafting at 26, the cap space, an issue, they do have change in the area, but it's a part of the previous regime. Are the Buffalo bills maintaining or are they pushing right now? They're, I think they're, they're pushing why, while remodeling, which is, it's not impossible to do, but I think the defense is going to change dramatically and they don't have as much flexibility. I don't think as they want, it'll be interesting to see like how they create cap space because they have negative cap space right now. But how, how can you have to look at it as a, as a two to three year process, but maybe they're in a little bit of a spot where the Rams and 49ers were, for instance, going into the Rams, going into 23, the 49ers going into last season, where like, yeah, it feels like it's a step back, but it really shouldn't be when you have Josh Allen. If you can make enough moves around the margins this year, you can be creative. They're going to have to hit on a lot of mid-tier guys that are going to have big roles for them. So Brandon Bean, he kept that job, Ollie, and it is probably the most challenging offseason that he's ever had. Yeah, I don't think it is a two, three-year process. When you have Josh Allen, you either have a parade or you failed. I mean, that's just the reality of the world they live in. And what's tricky, I think, for Bean particularly is they need to completely remodel the defense in terms of the kind of archetypes of players they have for the new scheme that they're going to run. And then on offense, they still have to do the cosmetic surgery, figure out which linemen they're bringing back, what they're doing at receiver, all that kind of stuff. So there's just more on the plate than I think you would expect, as Patrick said, when you walk in with starting healthy in week one, one of the two best quarterbacks in the NFL and feeling like we have maybe 12, 15 moves we have to nail to really feel good about ourselves. Yeah, it's it's hard because they have a ton of free agents that I think they're going to say goodbye to that have been around there for a while. like guys like Matt Milano, guys they brought back to like Jardavious White and Jordan Poyer, which I don't think will hurt as much. Joey Bosa, I don't think is going to be back there. And you're hearing like, OK, maybe they might be in the Shahid sweepstakes or they might get in on some of these receivers. And it does just feel like a situation where the salary cap is somewhat real, not in the sense that they couldn't figure it out to fit everyone in, but that there's just so many more teams with more resources that are going to go over the top for these premium pass catchers or pass rushers where like, I don't see it when, when people are trying to think like maybe they're a Trey Hendrickson team. Like I don't think they're going to have to get, have a chance to go that big. I think they're going to have to look at either a guy on a rookie contract still, whether it's like a Brian Thomas student, you just blow someone out the water to go and do that. Or you try and chase a distressed asset and hope it's, it's improved, whether it's Jordan Addison, someone like that. Can you steal someone away cheaply? He put them with Josh Allen. Everyone has a party. But there's just a lot of work to do with that much maneuverability. And in terms of making the maneuvers, because we've seen, if you want to go like with a parallel with Adam Peters coming from the West Coast to the East Coast, and then you saw the sequence of events that led to 49ers coming to Washington, where you wonder, like these partnerships are operating across the league. Like we have tree proliferation as well as like the these front office relationships where where is where's that coming for for Brandon Bean? Carolina has been where it has been coming. Is it still? Yeah, I don't. There's been so much turnover now. Like where is the influx of this of this capacity of needs before free agency starts? Like when do these conversations and how do they happen? And you start to wonder, like, oh, no, like this, this feels like it's going in a difficult spot. even more difficult than I initially thought. Yeah, I'm such a wimp because we were been pretty hard on Brandon being in this podcast, but then we have him on as a guest and it's all just, you know, plain footsie. Meanwhile, I got Eric probably in the background wondering like, can you ask him why this man has helped to ruin my Januaries the last handful of years? He is really up against it. Let's take a break. On the other side, I mentioned Max Crosby quickly. That's a big question for me. Let's talk about where his market may be. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stops. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the combine, the NFL draft, pro days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits. To my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Absolutely, it's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and Free Agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back on NFL Daily, I mentioned Max Crosby. The fact that trade terms got out there to pro football talk in terms of them wanting two firsts at a player the more I thought about it the more I thought OK well that a starting point And that what that what Shook reminded me on Sunday night podcast And that an indication of a willingness to actually trade Then on Monday morning, Albert Breer throws out casually that he thinks this deal can and it sounded like probably will happen. He thinks it could happen this week, that it's very sensitive all around because Max Crosby doesn't want to be seen to be wanting out. Mark Davis doesn't want to be seen to wanting to trade their best player. There actually is a lot of mutual, I think, appreciation. And if he stays there, it's not the end of the world. But in terms of their team build and where he's at in his age, it might make sense. And he could join a team that's more ready to win. And then Breer has a list of spicy teams that are monitoring the situation, that are engaging with the situation. I love this list. The Dallas Cowboys, the Chicago Bears, the Baltimore Ravens, the Buffalo Bills, the Patriots, the Eagles, and the Rams. The last one really stuck out to me. I was like, man, I could see the Rams doing something like this for the right price. Where are you at, Ali, in terms of thinking if Crosby would get traded and who strikes your fancy out of that list? I think he is going to get traded. The price I had heard was a first, a third, and a quality player. And I think the books are sitting right there with an offer of first, a third, and one of either Luke Gidecki or Kalajikansi, which will, I think, just cross the threshold for it to be a third. It is a lot, but trades hurt. If you wanted to acquire a player like Max Crosby right at the fringe of his prime, you've got to go and give up some assets that you don't really want to do it's going to hurt you too so i think that's kind of the asking price and if you look at the other teams outside the rams who have kind of that spare first round pick they wouldn't have been necessarily expecting to have in that range it's hard to find a comparative player to someone like a kadeki and kansi at that age with that talent where then it does become two ones and a three and that just feels really rich for a bunch of teams on that list particularly someone like the patriots who've had so many misses in the draft that you just can't bring in over expensive veteran and give up that kind of future capital, I think. So the books to me feels like the easiest landing spot for everyone involved. There's also the spy tech connection with the Bucks and Patrick was just talking about it with the Bills and that that is how a lot of deals do get done. I think you're right. The Bills to me seem like such a long shot for what because of the reasons we just talked about. The Patriots and Eagles actually don't make sense to me for where they're at in terms of, you know, wanting to give all those picks and in the money. The Bears are a little up against it. It's not what the Ravens typically do, although I think it would be fun. The Cowboys actually of those teams and the Rams probably make the most sense in terms of the ones that Breer mentioned. But you made a convincing case. And as much as, Patrick, like I appreciated Max Crosby making like the Monday night week 14 like Raiders recap that they got in, like more watchable and more like I, I kind of want him in a better, in a better home and a better, on a better team. Yeah. And I think despite, you know, the, the, the alleged, you know, protesting from, from Max Crosby, I think he would like to be in a place where he's, he's able to win. You know, you, you look at some of these players and the marketing is a big part of it. And you have to market yourself as a guy who, you know, is working harder. Max Crosby is an incredible athlete. He's one of the more gifted athletes in the NFL. and, you know, a lot of people attribute the volume of plays because there was a couple of years span there where he just never came off the field. You know, it became essentially worthless to continue that in a lost season in Las Vegas, but you just don't do the things that Max Crosby can do without being incredibly gifted. But, you know, to keep that up, to keep up the appearances, it's, you know, I just want to control what I can control and come in here and lunch pail. These conversations about a trader are also going to involve a deal. And so the trade partner to me has to be a team that can make that lucrative offer long-term. Because trading for Max Crosby, a first plus on some kind of win now thing, yeah, it may be an interesting idea for Max, but... I don't like that deal for the Bucs. I mean, Gettake or Kansi are good players. I'd feel a little uncomfortable about two picks, two pretty good picks, especially a first and a good player. If you got me to a second, a third in one of those, it's a lot, but I know it's going to cost a lot. I also know Max Crosby is ridiculously good. Yeah, he is pretty dominant, and I think the books are particularly in a strange window in which this could be the final year for everyone in town. And so there's a real pressure. They have been desperate for pass rush help. I've just, can we find a one-on-one winner? I think desperation breeds you changing your asking price from a second and a third to let's just do the one and bleep it and go all in. At least we'll line up with Max Crosby to open week one. And I think losing Gadecki, I think it's one of the better right tackers of the league would be a silly move to make. But once you start feeling that desperation, you feel like you can internally develop talent, then you could maybe talk yourself into it. And you've got SpyTech, your buddy, you're having beers, you're on the phone and he starts convincing you of it. It's good for everyone, buddy. Let's get this thing done. I could see why Jason Light would do it, then maybe wake up with a hangover with a couple of regrets the next day. Obviously there's tiers between, but I think if you can try to consider, is there a Kayvon Thibodeau type option for you that allows you to improve your pass rush in a certain capacity without limiting other aspects of the team, long-term, maybe that makes a little more sense. That would be fun. And they also have to consider the Steven factor. A lot of people who listen to NFL Daily are saying that John Spitek, the GM's mentioning of my friend slash trainer Steven, is becoming the best annual bit on the show. And I think trading Max Grosby would be tough for the Raider Nation and for Steven out there. All right, Ali, we should pick up the pace, get through as many questions as we can. What do you got? What is the Vikings' planet quarterback? Do we have any ideas? Does the staff not like J.J. McCarthy? Are they going to go into free agency? Is it Kirk? Is it Geno? Is it Kyler? Is it Tua? Are they going to call Derek Carr? Are they going to trade for Tanner McKee? What is the plan? I am all in on the Geno resurrection 2.0. Let's make this happen. But the only thing I feel confident about in that entire question there is that they do not believe in J.J. McCarthy. I think there is a greater chance that J.J. McCarthy is not on their roster in week one than there is that he starts week one. Do you think that's crazy? It feels borderline excessive. Like, I mean, not to, you know, jump back on the Bills thing, but the amount of conversation about, you know, their early round receiver, earlier round receiver that wasn't panning out. And he was like the most hated man from the front. I like J.J. McCarthy and the not-so-secret whisper campaign against J.J. McCarthy out of Minneapolis may be even more fervent than any conversation. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm just saying for him to start week one, I think an injury needs to happen for the guy that they want to start week one. It's going to need to happen because I don't think they're going to want J.J. McCarthy. And then I could absolutely see him going in the next week or two in a trade or if things are going well enough in August that he goes in a trade in August. I think they have to be the front runners for Anthony Richardson, right? So you can't move on from J.J. McCarthy. If you bring in Anthony Richardson, if you're concerned about the health and well-being of the guy, you really want to consider starting come week one. And that might be the most combustible quarterback room in terms of. Richardson would be the backup in that scenario? I think you would bring him in hoping we're going to try and start Anthony Richardson. We think we can tap into all the potential. That's still pretty volatile. J.J., I agree with you on the dislike of J.J. I think when your whole kind of philosophy from when you wake up in the morning to go to sleep, as Kevin O'Connell does, is about attacking the middle of the field in football and ways to kind of rip apart the middle of the field shell. And you have a quarterback in which by week two, you're saying we can't do this stuff. Let's remove everything from the playbook that I've spent my lifetime building. I think it can get pretty corrosive. Then there's the behind the scenes talk, too. So I agree with you that he's not going to start. It's just what is the break point? Is it Kirk on a cheap contract? Is it betting on Kyler where you would have similar issues with building the offense that you do with J.J. McCarthy? I have a hard time thinking they'll just completely bail on him being on the roster. I'm drawing a hard line no matter what happens at least nine years' starting experience in the NFL to play for Kevin O'Connell and the Minnesota Vikings. At this point, I don't want to see another like, oh, they're investing in this quarterback because if you go from McCarthy to Anthony Richardson, we could be in a similar situation. And now another like, you know, sacrificial GM is on the way out to, you know, because I went with the wrong guy. Like, could I could I at least interest you in a package of Kirk plus Richardson? Right. Steady hand. Get through the first couple weeks. And then behind the scenes, they've been working with Anthony Richardson. And now here comes the renaissance. It's got to be vets. I'll take that and make it Gino and Anthony Richardson. But yeah, I think Gino and Kirk. Yeah. They laid it out. Dan Graziano and Jeremy Fowler, where they made it really sound like, and I suspect you can kind of get a feel of like, all right, what's real, what's not. I suspect they got a line in here that their tiers were Kyler and Geno is tier one for like the old guy. And then tier two was like Cousins and maybe Rodgers if for some reason he shook loose or Flacco even. And tier three is like Richardson. But in that scenario, I think like, yeah, I think they're getting rid of J.J. McCarthy because I don't think they could see Anthony Richardson as a potential starter. Because if you're going to do that, you're trying to you're trying to win now. All right. Let's let's keep asking questions. That was a great one, though. Patrick, you're up. All right. Is a released Kyler Murray scenario going to absolutely ruin the market for Malik Willis and force Malik Willis to go to a team that's actually good, but he's not getting paid what he should be? I don't buy it. I think that the family guy thing with the there's anything in the box. It could even be a boat or whatever applies to Malik Willis. You can talk yourself into this untapped franchise potential that Greg's spoken about. Where with Kyler, I think teams will feel pretty complete on who he is as a player. And it's kind of where they're at in that kind of development arc. If they want to maybe hang around, win nine games, maybe squeak out a division in a bad division, they'll bring Kyler on board. But if they're shooting for the moon or it's a rebuild, the Vikings being a good example. If it's the Dolphins or Cardinals, these teams who are in that rebuild stage, then you want to shoot for the moon with Malik Willis and then figure the rest out later, I think. So on one hand, I feel like the Gregular season is just like a sprint. You know, literally two weeks removed from being in Santa Clara for the Super Bowl. I was already in Indianapolis and now like most of free agency will be done. What about 10 days from now? Like it basically be be over. and yet despite that short timeline, I feel like the Malik Willis stock, I'm now a little worried. Who is the team that's actually going to give him the big money? I think he's going to have a plenty good market, Patrick, to kind of answer that question, and I think he'll have a better market than Kyler, but it wouldn't surprise me either, and it doesn't matter to me that much whether he gets $37 million a year or $22 million a year, but he might settle in like a little Justin closer to somewhere between Justin Fields and maybe Geno's contract of last year. And it might be closer to the Fields portion. Cause I guess I'm not, if Miami isn't going big money wise on them and maybe they're just staying quiet, but then I'm not sure who will. Arizona is, is to me the most likely and makes the most sense to me. I don't know. He's gotta, he's gotta be playing football this year. I feel pretty good that he's, He's going to be a week one starter, which is all I really want to see. Yeah. And, you know, with the proliferation of the tree, there's a lot of places where he could go. I know we've talked about Kirk Cousins in one spot, Michael Penix Jr. coming back from another injury. You know, I think that would be a fun circumstance. We're hearing Jimmy G as the potential starter for Mike LaFleur in Arizona. Can we discuss this, Greg? Why? You can discuss whatever you want. I mean, Ali just covered his face. a LaFleur Hackett Garoppolo brain trust leading you into week one because if if we've like the if there are geno skeptics uh out there like significant geno skeptics which with good reason because like a morose season in Las Vegas should be deleterious to your long-term viability then are we forgetting the Garoppolo experience where Devante was screaming on the sideline on Netflix that get them out of here before he's dead. I agree, and I've been heartened that, like in that ESPN article, that there's actually some talk, well, people thought Gino, which I agree with, was as terrible as it was last year. The situation was so bad, and if you watched it, he's turning 36 years old this year, but I actually get the feeling that Gino might be atop this sort of reclamation project pile and might have a decent market assuming the Raiders do cut him and don't find a trade for him. I love Gino as much as anyone, maybe not as much as you. That is such shameful either analysis or agent talk to pretend like last year was not as bad as it was. He was awful last season. He couldn't see the field. He just threw the ball up in hope. I know he was worried about getting hit. And I'm not a huge Kyler Murray believer, maybe as a bridge starter, but to not have Kyler, given what he's capable of ahead of Gino Smith, would just be a dereliction of executive duty. I think they're both going to be starting week one, but I appreciate having a different viewpoint because I think that's healthy on this show. The 49ers are a team I just wanted to bring up. What's their big move? If I had to rank the most fascinating teams this offseason, they are right near the top. I just think they're always in the mix, but they've gotten close so many times. John Lynch was reportedly close to retiring at one point. They have a ton of cap space. They also have Trent Williams, Fred Warner, and Nick Bosa kind of near, you know I not saying Fred Warner near the end of his career but these are highly paid players who have had injuries who have been out And it just feels like you have the two best Goliaths in your own division. And like, it's go time. This is a team that's been ultra aggressive over the years. And it's just a thought exercise of like, what's their ultra aggressive move? Could it be, could it be Hendrickson? I don't think John Franklin Myers qualifies, but he's been connected to them. I've seen that that could be part of of a defensive line rebuild. Could they be a team that gets into the receiver market because they really need a wide receiver, whether that's like moving up in the draft or whether it's A.J. Brown or D.J. Moore? I'm just kind of fascinated by a team that is absolutely sick of not winning the Super Bowl, essentially, and feeling like, yeah, like let's freaking go this year. Like what are the 49ers going to do as their like big move? I'm not sure if either of you have any just like grand ideas of what you see yeah the number one thing i would do is i would call the jets and i would try to talk them into the 33rd pick for mac jones uh then i would take that pick and i would package it all around and i would call everyone for the best players in the nfl i would call about max crosby which i think they're they're in for i would call about jaylen waddle and find out if the new infrastructure in miami is into jaylen waddle i would call about brian thomas jr i think that that's the approach they should take is if we're going to go on to a two-year timeline, essentially. Having Mike Jones as a quality backup is awesome for us. But if we can look at this market where it's Gino and all these guys and teams talk themselves into the reclamation of having seen Sam Darnold, Baker and Daniel Jones and on down the line, what can we extract from Max Jones to then turn into either Crosby or Brian Thomas or a real blue chip player? Yeah, to me, they just have to, you know, obviously getting healthy is going to do a lot for the 49ers, but they need to add depth at those spots where they had the concerns. Clearly, Max Crosby does that in a certain capacity. But how long do they want to push this version, like this particular window of the Warner, the Bosa, Trent, if Trent elects to maintain residence in Santa Clara? How long are we cutting out? Well, one more year. They're all coming back. So, yeah, let's go. So then, yeah, go. But not to stop it at rookies in draft picks. Like Ali said, swing for fences. Like have ETN backing up CMC. Like get out there. Like they could be a Mike Evans team. They could be a Jalen Phillips team. There was reporting from The Athletic that maybe the Mac Jones market wasn't, you know, what they hoped for. To me, it doesn't, I don't think Mac Jones is going to have much of a market just because I don't think there's enough of a difference between him and these other guys that we're talking about that'll just be freely available. But if you're swinging and say Kevin O'Connell really likes Mac Jones, you could turn it into Jordan Addison and then maybe you don't want to get involved with the off-the-field stuff after all the receivers stuff you've just dealt with, but you could give it a swing. If you're talking about big swings, like let's just do it. Let's build a package. You send us a fourth or fifth round back. You send us Addison. Maybe he's not on the team by week six, but we're swinging here, Greg. You asked us for big swings. Let's go. I appreciate that. It would be delightful if if they replace the guy who did an Instagram of like driving 100 miles an hour past the stadium with another guy who's been arrested a couple of times for driving. But you air that with the signing of of Mike Evans all of a sudden it's like, well, this is just kind of a moonshot if it goes well or not. Yeah, I really wanted to point them out, especially just as like watch this space more. I don't know if you guys hear the police sirens in my background, but I guess they think it was a bad question. Just watch this space. I think they're going to be one of the main characters of the next couple of weeks. I'm not sure even who's up next. Let's go. Let's go, Ali. What is Trey Hendrickson's market? We've kind of talked about him in a couple of landing spots there. It feels like for a guy who was second in defensive player of the year voting a year ago, it's not as though he's like the runaway favorite for a monster contract. And it seems like the board is set where teams are going to try and trade for Max Crosby or the teams who can't make that work are going to start looking at Trey Hendrickson or just decided for one or the other. I wonder, Greg, how you stack it up between trading multiple picks for Max Crosby versus Trey Hendrickson, who on a per snap basis, at least the last two seasons, has been a pretty close facsimile of what Crosby gives you. I think Crosby is a better all-around player by a decent distance, but pure pass rush, get off and go. It's pretty close. And the contracts are probably going to wind up being somewhat similar. Yeah. I think you won't even have to pay as much for Hendrickson in the end, like not that much guaranteed money, certainly not past year two, maybe not even a fully guaranteed two-year contract. I think because of his age and coming off of an injured year, it's going to be something like two for 50, two for 60. Like it'll be plenty. He'll do well. It's not going to be like a long-term deal, but I'd always rather do that. And I think there are enough intriguing pass rushers at the top of this market. I know Adafi Owe is not nearly the same player. Boye Mafe and Jalen Phillips is somewhere in between, but I'd still rather do that than give up big picks. So I don't think his market's going to be quite as good. People are going to be blown away when some of these offensive linemen get as much money as Trey Hendrickson. I think the positional value gets it to a place where if it's Buffalo and they've maneuvered enough to have some space, teams that miss out on Max Crosby, it's a good backup option to have Trey Hendrickson being able to get out there. I think you're easily north of 20. They do all kinds of lies with the APYs, but we can get up north of 20. To me, I guess it's whether he's confined to the tier of like the contenders who want to try and get an A-plus player with healthy, or it's more the middle band guys like the Bears who are happy to overpay because they think it can push them into a different tier. And it feels to me like the conversation is mostly around the Niners, the Bills, can they maneuver cap space so the Patriots consider themselves a legit force? And it's more, as Greg's saying, that kind of two-year fully guaranteed deal effectively, as opposed to the middle band teams trying to jump to another level, Whereas the books who I consider a middle band side, all looking around at someone like a Crosby. Right. Or, you know, the chargers are this team that's kind of sitting out there. They have so much cap space. The Seahawks actually have a lot of cap space. We're thinking good teams. Does he consider just taking the bag from like a team like the Titans who I think are going to be spending a lot of money this off season? Like there, there is a lot of, a lot of cap space out there. All right, Patrick, you're up next. Okay. So going through the combine and checking back up on the guys that leapt off the screen athletically, it's like, I got to go watch some tape. I was charting Ted Hurst and I just wrote, ah, with several exclamation points where you have a six, three and seven, eight wide receiver with good hands, went down to mobile, excelled, make great plays in practice. And then I'm watching the tape and it's Georgia state. So you're having to go through and try to find the players that he made plays against. I had to go all the way back to 2024 when they played JMU. This was before D'Angelo Pons transferred to Indiana, where he would eventually win a national championship. He gets him in the corner of the end zone and hands finishing after the catch. I'm all on board. And I just wonder with all of these receivers, you know the value for free agents may be kind of pulled back with all these guys you can get in the second and third round so I feel like you know between Hurst being a really good player that could be going on a really good team and these free agent wide receivers I think somebody is going to get some a real game changer at receiver either way yeah I think it was a more shallow free agent receiver crop than normal. There's a few fun names at the top and it falls off pretty hard. And whereas like the draft looks deeper in terms of rounds two and three guys. Yeah, big picture. What did you think, Ollie, about Hurst or the receivers? And we're kind of wrapping up here. So maybe any players will wrap kind of with the discussion because I thought about this too, that you thought really helped their draft stock over the last few days. well I I love Ted Hurst I'm so glad he's getting a shout out this early in the process on NFL daily it's great job by Patrick uh I mean talk about size speed weight everything vertical threat really smooth not just an explosive up and down guy like the Tennessee people who get spat out every year into the draft so um I think he's gonna go far earlier than he's currently being projected um guys who really help themselves I think Dylan Fienneman and I know it's kind of still at the top end of the board I think there's a chance here based on the safety class where we end up getting four guys going in the first round um more than some of the hybrid slot safety types a bit in the branch mold but i think the enemy is going to wind up going in the top 15 maybe even as high as 10 gets tricky there's so many of the the premium edge defenders are up there and i think teams are jostling with how they actually see those guys uh where guy who's one on certain people's board whether it's bain or bailey are actually seventh on other teams board based on what they're looking for the position whereas it's pretty calcified the downs is a star and are we willing to kind of look past our priors to just go and take a great player as early as we can in the draft and i think fienderman has a chance to be pretty special too so those two i think i'll go really early then the stooks at arizona who i think has a chance to be really great and he could sneak into the first round and there's mcneil warren at toledo who didn't quite test as well as i think people are expecting but he's gonna have a chance to go in the fringe of round one too yeah and it's funny where would Nicky Minwari go in this draft because of the Nicky Minwari effect? You know what I mean? Like he's made people want, they're like, oh shoot, we shouldn't have let him go as far. And I know there were some, you know, questions about his college tape, but it's funny that he played so well that if he was in this draft, like is he a better prospect than the Enemann? I don't know. Like you would think, right? Or they're in the, they're in the same ballpark. Well, you get into that range where I think the ability to put force into the ground and move at 205 versus 215, like those 10 pounds around that 200 pounds, like those are a significant difference where you kind of have Eman Worry and Kyle Hamilton in this particular class of player where Downs, I think Downs or these other men or these guys who have more capacity to be deep into it. Like if you look at Tiananmen's time at Purdue, where he's playing more free safeties in the backfield, running around making plays back there, where at Ohio State with the pass rush that they had, to get a really good football player involved in the game, you had to have Downs more in the box. And it's like, oh, Caleb Downs is a box safety. No, like I think he's better in the back end. So like you have these really good free safeties in this class versus I don't think there's an E-man warrior Kyle Hamilton here. and those guys, you just may have to wait like every two or three years before you get a type of player like that where teams are going to try to force feed like we did for Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson. Like anytime you had a tall, fast guy, it's like, oh, that's this guy. No, those guys aren't around a lot. Yeah, I thought you said something interesting to me on text to Ollie, which is that, look, Styles, Sonny Styles, like his workout was insane but maybe the league are like i was thinking does this make it so that he could be in that top five mix and you you thought like the teams i think were there on him already that there was disagreement maybe between david bailey arville reese sunny styles but he was even though he's an off-ball linebacker he was already looked at a guy that could go as high as who knows like as high as possible yeah patrick's right on those safety body types those guys come around once in a lifetime for a franchise if you're lucky maybe we'll get some more of them now there's like a prototype out there but it's unlikely that guy is Sonny Stiles that is a guy with that size and those movement skills you don't need a dime linebacker on the field we just have Sonny Stiles and he plays every down and he covers like Fred Warner but he's got five inches and a bunch of pounds on him as well um so I the combine for the teams they've had all these measurements for as long as they want they've also got them from the senior ball it's mostly cross-offs it's medical stuff. It's like one really bad meeting and they go back to the notes. Maybe there's some thresholds they have where they cross guys off, but they're crossing off and guys move up a few spots. They don't have the kind of media side jump where a guy goes from 36th on their board to 18th or something like that. So that's it for our big questions. We will have Patrick back later in the week. We will figure out when we got Ollie back on the show, but I'm looking forward to it. We also have a couple of live shows next week that we're getting excited for. I want to go live on YouTube Sunday night with Shook. So we're going to work on that. But we are definitely going live during the week, including on Monday from the studio, the first day of the quote unquote legal tampering period, which is the busiest day of the entire offseason. So we will be live on the NFL channel, which is the Fast Network. But we're trying to work on getting live on YouTube and we'll have all those shows out. I am really excited for that. One other just tiny news item I wanted to mention is Donovan Ezraku had hip surgery and, you know, may not be ready for training camp. And that's not an injury you want to see for literally anyone. And he had such a great end to his rookie year. And it gets me to one question I left unasked today, which is like, what are the Cowboys going to do with all this cap space that they just freed up? It sounds like actually the Cowboys are going to be pretty active. They need a lot of help on a lot of defensive positions, but we'll talk about that throughout the week. Let's hit the music. Let's get out of here. Sorry, guys. Patrick, no more tours came through the stage five, by the way. We're all clean. Just me and this cutout of Scott Hanson. Oh, wait, that's stage four. Stage four, the Scott Hanson studio. Thank you to Ollie. Thank you to Patrick. We will be back in the feed on Tuesday with 40s and free agents. Me and Daniel Jeremiah. We'll see you then. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents, the podcast that owns the NFL offseason. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades. Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts. To my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search 40s and free agents, and listen now. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.