‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 2: Round 2, Baby

Hello, welcome back to the Press TV podcast. I'm Jordan Robinson. I am Rob Mahoney. We're here to talk about euphoria, season three, episode two, America, comma, my dream. I don't know if you know this, but created, written, and directed and executive produced by Sam Levinson. I had heard that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Anything you want to say in the wider world of the Press TV podcast feed right now, Rob Mahoney? I think we're still mourning the pit. Yeah. We're winding down, we're moving on, but excited to have euphoria in our lives, excited to have beef in our lives. We should also know because we didn't last week, I don't think, Joe, if you're new to our coverage, if you're checking in for euphoria, you should also check out our socials, PrestigeTVPod on Instagram and TikTok, et cetera. So come hang out and get some euphoria tinged content. Right. You can watch us on Spotify if you want. Of course. You can watch us on YouTube at RingerTV. And if you didn't watch the pit finale episode, you might have missed something special. I would recommend it. Okay, great. Speaking of sort of how people can get in touch with us, et cetera, we usually do show specific emails when we're going to spend some time. We're going to spend some time here with euphoria. Amen. So last week we had sort of poked around with some ideas, but not really landed on anything perfect. We got some listener suggestions, but I'm curious, Rob, have you come up with any euphoria specific emails that you would like to float to me? I do have some. I was very sad to find that, bitch, you better be joking at gmail.com was already taken. So unless that was you, Joe, unless you jumped on that, very unfortunate, never been happier at gmail.com also already taken. Those are off the board. I have one specific to the season one larger euphoria option. One is this fucking play about us at gmail.com is available for the taking is this fucking play about us. OK, longer than our usual ones, but that's OK. If we want to go season three specific, what do you feel about only florals at gmail.com? OK, you know, again, a little we're doing a little word play with Cassie's storyline at this point. I also don't know how much only fanning we're going to do going forward. So maybe it's committing to the wrong thing. Here's my suggestion, please. And it is Rob Mahoney specific. Well, I'm terrified. Maddie's boy was taken. OK. But Maddie, Maddie's number one boy. Wow. Is available. Maddie's number one boy at gmail.com. It feels presumptuous to say that I could be. I think you are, though. I'm flattered. Would you like to make that the winner? I think we should. And Maddie for the record is spelled the Y. So it's M-A-D-D-Y-S. Number one all spelled out boy at gmail.com. What a life I've chosen for myself. You did this to yourself. Great. All right. So that is how you can reach us with all of your euphoria thoughts, questions, comments, concerns. If I am the number one Maddie's boy, does this mean I have supplanted both Nate and Cassie that she is my Maddie now? She's definitely your Maddie. Let's let's do it. Let's definitely she's definitely not Cassie and Nate's Maddie. I'll tell you what. In fucking pen. Okay. So press. You should be at Spotify.com is how you can always reach us, but Maddie's number one boy at gmail.com is how you can reach us for the stretch of euphoria we're going to do. We do have some listener emails that we'll talk about already in the mix here this week. But I wanted to sort of open with this larger conversation. Obviously euphoria, huge viewership, by the way, like, I think it was like up, it was either 22% or maybe even 44% from season two. Wow. But it's a huge leap from, from season two viewership into season three. And that just speaks to Sidney Sweeney's and Dan. The wattage. You know, like Jacob already just being such undeniable stars. Um, but we already knew that the critics didn't like it. And now we've had a chance to hear from only fans, the fans of euphoria. And they have a lot to say. I'm sure this isn't like a unanimous, um, consensus, but if you go on YouTube, a great place to be, um, almost all of the videos about euphoria from a sort of like fandom culture point of view are all hate watch videos. What the fuck is wrong with euphoria? What's going on? I don't know if they're just like feeding into that's the general sort of vibe and they want the clicks. Also the internet. You know, um, but I just wanted to sort of look at what some of those critics were outside of the, of the TV critical, uh, critiques and see how we thought of it. So one question I had for you is one criticism I saw, a widespread criticism was these don't even feel like the same characters to me anymore. So two things I want to talk about. Number one, it's been a five year time jump. So do we want these characters to feel the same as they did five years ago? And then number two, do you agree? Like, do these characters feel like this, like the same characters or at least conceivably connected to the characters that you knew in season one and season two? I think most of them do, at least for me. I'd say the biggest exception is Nate. I don't know who that person is. I'm not familiar with him or his work. I really agree. Do you think he had a traumatic head injury in the last five years? It's really the most compelling explanation. And maybe when we get like what Nate been doing during the time jump episode, we'll find out. He was a football player, right? He was, he was a quarterback. So I mean, a lot, the CTE is really rampant. But other than that, like, Rue, I don't want everyone to be in the exact same place. I want to see some indication of they've been through some things, they've grown in certain ways or maybe have resisted growth in certain ways. Rue, that feels truthful to me. Jules, we see in this episode for the first time this season feels so much more confident in herself than when we last saw her. We really just get a taste of it. You know, like I think it's too early to tell, but that Jules looks identifiable to me. Yeah. Maddie tracks, Lexi tracks. Cassie, I think kind of unfortunately sort of tracks just because that was a bit of a hollow character in season two and remains a hollow character, although in ways that the show is at least attempting to engage with. Right. But yeah, Nate, I genuinely don't know what they're doing there. I fully agree. Like Nate feels like a completely different person in a way that I'm just curious if. Is it possible in his like, I need Pataga Veneta to be involved in this show? Yeah. He negotiated, can I play less of a sociopath this season or something like that? It would be great for my mental health. I don't know. I don't know what the conditions were for all of these actors to come back to the show, given all the behind the scenes drama and all of the star wattage. Something we missed last week is like in calling out Nate's Digible Orteez, Pataga Veneta, Leather, Flannel, Sher and all that sort of stuff like that. We missed, of course, that Sydney Sweeney has a whole lingerie line. So the siren corsets that she was wearing. Dog corsets included. Exactly. So those two are heavy on their product placement promotion. I don't know if anyone else in the cast is logging anything. Maddie's number one boy at GMA.com. If you have some insight into that. I don't think Zendaya has a line that she's pushing, but we'll see. I think maybe some of the super high heels that she and Angel are hurling at each other. They must be from somebody's line. I love that. And then a bigger question, I guess, is like, what are we looking for from Euphoria? Are we looking to Euphoria for profound thematic depth in its writing? Or are we looking for incredible visuals and great performances? So for me, like, you know, once again here in season three, they've got bespoke film stock from Kodak, you know, they're giving us the they're inspired by Sergio Leone and they're giving us like wide open, you know, desert landscapes and blue sky and all this sort of stuff like that. We've got Zendaya here, full throttle, just like incredibly great charming. And then in the sort of Rue relapse flashback, another one of those like heart wrenching Rue calling her mom moments, watching Hunter Schaefer do what Hunter Schaefer does so well. That's what I'm really here for. And so for people to say Euphoria doesn't have enough on its mind this season, I was like, I actually don't think Euphoria ever had that much on its mind. I think Sam Levinson thinks it does, but I'm not sure that I fully agree. We got a good email about this that I that I do want to talk about, but I'm just curious for you, like, I know you just sort of did a speed run through Euphoria, right? But what is it about the show that really hit for you in that in the two season run that you did? And is it hitting for you in these first two episodes? I think I'm in a similar place to where you are, Joe, which is the visuals, the style, the character beats and like the emotional truths of those characters are interesting to me. But as far as a show with like a lot to say in a big grandiose sort of like, let me speak to multiple generations kind of way, clumsy at absolute best. And this season, I'm I'm eager to see if they can wrangle any of that any better. These first two episodes, I mean, there are a lot of kind of ties that you can feel being strung through the season, the biggest one just being like the commodification of the human body, right? It's like everything we see, drug mules, only fans, strippers, toe sucking influencers, like even making maybe sometimes exploitative TV show about your own personal kinks, you know, perhaps a kind of commodification of the human body. Is it too late for toe sucking influencers? It's really not. If you want to if you want to pivot, I suspect it's already taken. I bet it is. Our listener, Alana wrote in with this, I thought a very interesting point of view. Alana wrote, I would love to hear you takes comparing Sam Levinson and Taylor Sheridan. For years, I thought that they are sort of cut from the same cloth and the cloth is wrapped tightly around simmering generational anxieties and traumas, masquerading as poignant cultural commentary. Now Sam Levinson has even jumped over to the neo-western genre and the overlaps are even more prominent. Hello, William Telcine. People call Yellowstone a Western soap opera or Middle America sopranos obsessed with property and legacy. And Euphoria has been a teen soap or a California sopranos obsessed with identity and belonging. Now, what will season three be? A Western sopranos obsessed with identity and legacy? So one thing I want to say really quickly to Alana and anyone else, I had a revelation this last week when I saw that Ed Harris was going to be involved in one of the Taylor Sheridan, Dunn Ranch or whatever. And I was like, oh, thank God, Ed Harris. And that's how I felt about Michelle Pfeiffer. That's how I felt about Ellen Beard. And that's how I felt about Harrison Ford. And I was like, oh, is this how people felt for years about the MCU? And they're like, oh, my favorite actors in the MCU. I'm like, the Sheridan verse got them, but you can't be mad at them for getting the money. But I was just like, I had, I knew appreciation for the MCU haters in my Sheridan verse hatred. Here's what I think. Euphoria was originally an Israeli TV show that Sam Levinson took, barely used. It was just sort of like teens. Are they okay? Very loosely adapted. And then in to Rue poured his own experience with addiction and as like a teenage fuckup and all of this sort of stuff like that. And to his credit, we use him as I would say something of a punching bag on this show fairly often, but like very effectively. You feel how personal Rue's story is in particular within Euphoria. It just feels incredibly true and incredibly unafraid to show the ugly sides of who Sam Levinson is. And so when you hear all this behind the scenes drama about Sam Levinson and his relationship with the cast or his various collaborators over the years, you're like, yeah, he's essentially Rue. He's a fucking mess. I'm not surprised that any endeavor that this person, if Rue is a true reflection of him, would have all of this mess associated with it. So in his depiction of Rue and his unvarnished look at what it means to be not a terrible person, but a person who has a lot of problems that you make other people's problems, that's a way in which Euphoria has something very special about it. Now, the question of Rue's sobriety in this season, even inside this episode, we get kind of conflicting ideas where she talks about the relapse, which is basically a way to knit one of the specials that I'm not sure you've still even watched, but that was like sort of like a jump forward in time of Rue visiting. Jules in art school was one of those specials. So I think they were just kind of trying to tie that into the continuity where Rue being like, a couple years ago, I did this. And then I relapsed. But in that relapse voiceover, she says, and I haven't been sober since. And then to Jules inside of this episode, she says, I'm California, forn you sober, right? I'm drinking and I'm smoking. She's never been able to be honest with Jules. But like when Angel's like, I've got leftover party favors, like Rue gives one of those like, well, hey, looks, you know, so. Does literally anyone on the planet right now give a rise smile, like Zendaya gives a rise smile when she's about to do illicit drugs? I don't know. But so like, is Rue, that's the thing is like, if that's what was so special, this, this examination of addiction and the havoc it can wreak on you. But Rue this season doesn't feel like, even if she is like, still doing hard stuff. It doesn't seem like that is what is derailing her from, I don't know, doing her job at the strip club or anything like that. So kind of meander it all over the place. But I'm curious if you have any reactions to what I just said. Yeah, I think framing some of this season as Rue's ability to resist some of these, the temptations of those cycles, right? And she talks about this with Jules, as far as like, working at a strip club, I'm around all of this stuff all the time. And part of my job is like, kind of keeping it at arm's length to the degree that she can. I think she's trying to do that. I do think juxtaposing where Rue is in her not really sobriety, not really clean living with everything that's going on with Angel in this episode, not only the way she spins out, but the rehab facility she ultimately delivers her to, which is just like, shady as all fuck. Is she dead? I think we need to dig into it. But ultimately, what this episode does, I think, very well, is show us the ways that all of Rue's support systems that she's used to relying on when things do go bad, going back to her mom, checking into rehab when things get really, really terrible, even just like having Jules as a sometimes constant who she can lean on in her life. Everything feels up for grabs right now. Like Ali is still there, and we know he's been established this season. But other than that, she's having to kind of redefine what her support looks like as an adult. I love that. And that's, when you hear Sam Levinz and talk about it this season, that is sort of his ideas. Like, okay, we went from, he was like the methamphetamine high of high school to this sort of vast, he's trying to shoot the characters in larger frames so that they look smaller and they are just smaller. We talked about inside of this episode, small fish, bigger ponds, that they are just thrust into this wider world. And where is my place in this wider world? The problem that that presents for euphoria is part of the juice of the first few seasons, and we talked about this in the previous episode, is like the illicit nature of all of the sex and drugs, but their teens, their underage, it's high school. And there was this sort of thematic cover to that of when people clutch their pearls about euphoria, there was this response one could give, which was sort of like, don't be so naive, you think the teens aren't doing this, they're doing this. This is a on a Lloyd look at the realities of American teen them right now, etc., etc. You don't have that cover when you're just showing us early 20s doing, not so much 20 somethings doing sex work. So I think it like, when people are, and this is a hilarious reaction to the season of euphoria that I saw on the internet this week, was just sort of like, all this gratuitous nudity. And I was like, did you not watch season two of euphoria or like any of you for it's always been this way. This is not new. I do feel, and I told you this when I watched this episode, I do feel grimy, of course, watching this show. You're supposed to feel grimy. And there are parts of it that I feel like help the story. And there are parts of it where I'm like, Sam, what are we doing? But I feel like that's always been the devil's bargain that you make when you watch euphoria. So I'm surprised by people feeling like it's new. And I can only, I can only believe that they are feeling like it's something new because all of a sudden we take away that sort of thrill of teenage done and then they're 20 somethings and you're like, oh, you're just showing me, you know, Sydney Sweeney wearing only an LA Dodgers cap and a like carefully placed catchersman, you know, etc. This episode did seem keenly aware of euphoria as reputation and where it sits in the public consciousness and discourse. Right? Like we just get so many specific lines that are referencing like it's not going to be the way it used to be from Jules. Like you can't just like fall into these old habits and pretend like, yeah, although talk about missing high school. I think even just the idea of like, where is the line? And so many characters are dealing with this in their own ways between like good taste and bad. What is exploitative and what is not? What is like, you know, every girl I meet is a sugar baby, but I'm not because I'm not a whore. You know, it's that's happening constantly throughout this episode in a way that feels obviously subtextual about what euphoria is and our willingness to engage with it. I guess what I'm saying is like, is this fucking play about us? Is this show like turning its lens to us and us watching all this stuff? Well, and I think, you know, we were talking with some folks here in the office about sort of what about euphoria was and wasn't working for us. And we agreed pretty unanimously that like the Cassian Nate stuff, we just like don't really care that much. No. And, but I'm always interested when I go back to what Ru is doing and, you know, we get some Maddie stuff in this episode, we get a hint of Jules in this episode, you know, and we don't get any Lex in this episode, but I am interested in Lexie's storyline, you know, but the Cassian Nate stuff is so interesting to me because it really feels like when you're saying, is this fucking play about us? It really feels like this episode is like Sydney Sweeney. What a piece of work. Like, right? Like, isn't that like the description of Cassie as being desperate for attention and all this like feels like like I cannot believe Sydney Sweeney allowed herself to be part of this. That really feels like it's calling out her particular brand of sexuality and the way she's presented herself in her career thus far. The fact that the show is both kind of obsessed with Cassian Nate or Sydney Sweeney, but also has this contempt for them. It's an interesting combination to me. What do you think? I think it's part of kind of the bile that makes this show go. Like there is kind of like there is a dark heart in euphoria. It's not all like, like Jules and Rue cannot be happy together all the time. Like it's just not in the DNA of the show to allow it. No. And in the same way, it's like people are constantly pulling each other apart. Even the characters we love, you just get such harsh looks at them at their worst possible moments, socially, chemically, whatever it may be. And so I actually think like Sydney Sweeney deserves a lot of credit for her humility in this role because I'm with you. It's like it's not only exposing in ways that are very different from the way she exposes herself in other contexts, but just like emotionally and playing with that reputation and specifically the idea that she is like so vapid. I mean, it says Cassie. Cassie is a character so vapid, she's willing to be a blank slate for basically anybody and just like once somebody, whether it's Nate or Maddie or anyone else to tell her what to do. And projecting that onto Sydney Sweeney specifically is a very interesting thing to do and a very interesting thing for an actor to allow. I think that's interesting that you're like, I give her credit for that. And I'm just like, I can't believe it. That's not saying that. I kind of, a star of... You admire it? I'm just like, girl. Okay, this... But who else would do that? A star of her magnitude who would play this kind of role? But I just don't think that's smart to do. I'm not saying it is. I think what's interesting is watching the behind the scenes that they did for episode one and watching who can send... Because famously, the big stars around the show are not doing press for this show, which is a very wild thing to have negotiate into their contract that they don't. Liz and Dave does not have to... She showed up to the red carpet briefly and then was like, bye. That's it. Jacob Elordi is not giving interviews about this. And so on the talking heads section of the behind the scenes of episode one, it's Maude Apatow and Sydney Sweeney and that's it. And I was just like... And Maude Apatow is with love and respect, not on the same caliber as Sydney Sweeney's and Dan, Jacob Elordi in her career right now. So I could kind of understand that. And they got Sharon Stone to talk about it. They got whatever. But I was like, Sydney Sweeney missed whatever contract negotiation Jacob Elordi and Zendaya did. And she's just like showing up and talking earnestly about what Cassie is going through on Euphoria this season. And I was just like, wow, okay. There's also... You talked about the commodification of the human body. And one critique I saw, which is a very fair critique, is that with the exception of Lexie, every single woman inside of this season is in sex work in some way. Whether it's like Maddie sort of managing this sort of only fan salad or room, working security or whatever her job is at cleaning toilets and whatever she needs to do with the strip club or Jules being a sugar baby or what Cassie is pursuing or the strippers that we meet inside of this episode. But I was thinking about it. I was like, okay, so all the women are doing this and like, what are the men doing? And then I was thinking about the male characters on Euphoria and how Ethan's gone, McKay's gone, there aren't that many left. Is it just Nate at this point? You know, like Cal. Alamo and some of the new introductions. Right. So it's like, so Ethan's gone, McKay's gone. Elliot I think is going to be at somehow in this season, but not much. I think Fez unfortunately, as Cloud passed away, Astre was ridden off, frankly, I think because he was growing too fast inside of the show. And then, Ali and Cal are very minimally, I think, being used this season. And then, yeah, we get Dylan Reid, television star Dylan Reid. Very low maintenance. And the whole Alamo crew are like new additions. But like, we lost Cat, but we shed most of the male characters. And Alamo and Dylan Reid are not in that we're new young adults in the world mode that Nate is. So it's just Nate, my least favorite character, carrying the load of that for the show. I think that's kind of interesting. But he's in debt and he's, you know, he's really fighting the good fight against California regulators. Is he? He's really sticking up for somebody. I don't know who it is. Can I tell you something about Los Angeles zoning? I would love to hear it. Building laws. So I belong to like a gym that's a chain. And it was really close to my home back home in Northern California. But like down here, it's like 40 minutes. The closest location is like 40 minutes from here or my house. Like, you know, there's several of them. And then I saw they were opening but new one like seven minutes from my house. I was like, should I quit this gym and join another one? Cause there's a million in LA. Or should I stay with this chain that I like? They're opening but new one seven minutes from me. So I called them and I was like, you say opening soon. What does that mean? And she literally started talking about the like zoning and regulations. We got to get in front of the board. So I was like, got it. Okay. She's like 10 weeks minimum. I was like, okay, but probably longer if this is a documentary that we're watching here. So yeah, I do think it's a totally fair point about the way the female characters in the show are represented and specifically the jobs that they have. I also think the show is yet again kind of pointing the camera at us and saying how you define which of those things are sex work is a kind of a personal reflection. Right. It's like, I think some people might look at a sugar baby type arrangement as sex work. And some people might not. Some people might look at like, I think the very delicate line that this episode gets into and really Maddie is navigating with her two jobs between why is like an established star allowed to do a revealing photo shoot, but an influencer who wants to be a star. It's like, this is beyond the pale. Right. If they go to fight, it's like the tasteful flowers for you versus the tasteful flowers for like, if Nicole Kidman wanted to do this photo shoot would be received totally differently. And she should. And honestly should. And so, I mean, to pair it for Maddie's boss, like the called me old fashioned, but if you're sucking toes and spreading your beaver, that's porn. Right. I mean, Potter Stewart, you've been replaced. We have a new threshold. But also, I think that's kind of the point is we're showing people in various kinds of sex and sex adjacent work and forcing you to make judgments on how you feel about them. How did you feel about the way that Maddie's storyline unfolded in this episode as Maddie's number one boy? I mean, Joe, there are so many things that disappoint you in life and Maddie is not one of them. So I would have loved, I was frankly, a little shocked by how little jewels we got in this episode. I was kind of just expecting, given the way episode one rolled out that this would be more jewels heavy. Right. But if you're going to trade off with literally anything, I would prefer it to be Maddie. And I really enjoyed her stuff this week. I think because we're not getting, we've done this sort of like flashback to their childhood intros in season one and season two, all these characters. So I think without that, it's sort of like, what have they been up to? It's a really smart way to adapt that. And so the first episode, we get Rue and we get Lexi and we get Cassie and Nate to a certain degree. I don't really know how they got to their house on the suburbs, but okay. And then this is like Maddie's episode. And then I have to imagine we're going to get a like yada, yada, yada, jewels. I can only hope that's episode three or something like that. But they knew how to hook me and it was more Maddie out of the gate. Frankly, is there anything better on TV than Maddie pantomiming Cassie's whole deal? You want to do it right now? I don't because I don't want the clip out there. Are you sure? But I was balling in a very different way than Cassie is often balling. I thought it was so funny. And it's like Rue's reaction where she was like, yeah, the crying. Okay, you can do that part. We'll stick with the crying. Yeah. Rue's reaction when she's like ding ding round two and like, it was very funny. But I mean, honestly, that's the way you revive my interest in the Cassie stuff is put her with people like Maddie and not people like me. I was wondering if you can have the opposite reaction where as the number one Maddie's boy, I thought you were going to be like, oh no, they've looped her into the Cassie storyline. God damn it. But she gets to go in and be extremely right. She gets to roll into the pool with the furs. Hold on one second. I'm still on the phone. She looks incredible. I mean, she has wisdom. She has grace. She's got it all going on. I have questions. Here's my one question. We get the product placement Mercedes Benz hood ornament as Cassie arrives. She drives down the PCH. The Hans Zimmer score is scoring. She arrives right into camera, the Mercedes Benz logo cut across the street. Maddie in her own Mercedes Benz. And I was very curious about that because like Maddie's living in like, she's got this funky place that she's living in. She's got a ton of clothes that she's amassed probably through PR machinations honestly. But like she's got a ton of clothing, but she's like helping her mom with the rent. She's like the whole storyline is Maddie is like broke as a joke, but somehow like trying to project success. The Mercedes kind of confused me. But it's not the class or niceness of Mercedes that Cassie's is. No. No, no. It's an older Mercedes. It's definitely older. And maybe that's kind of the play, right? It's like a Mercedes in name, but is it really? I like to believe it's make a Kelly gamer that Mercedes. I would also like to believe it. Her entrance into the Paradise Club, I think, you know, as Sam Levinson and his DPs are talking about the sort of spaghetti Westerns are inspired by, but also just this sort of like LA noir Chinatown 70s sort of thing, like her dreamy entrance into and Cassie being like, I am outclassed and every like Cassie already looked like she's stuck out as dayclass A inside of this country club. But when Maddie comes in just looking like a good Jillian Bucks, it was an incredible moment. I especially like the, you need, oh, you need promotion. You need to know there are people you need taste. It's like all of the shots. So she says, so she insists. I do think to, I mean, to kind of rewind before we even get to the Cassie stuff, as far as like what Maddie has been up to. Sure. Euphoria's treatment of the pandemic felt like a very euphoria moment to me as far as like, there's just a cohort of younger people, but really all people who just like were deeply unserious about any of this like global health crisis stuff fly out there. And it's like euphoria and not only portrays that in a really honest way, but doesn't make any apologies about it. And that felt like the closest we've come so far to the kind of like underage sex, drugs and rock and roll appeal of the first two seasons, not in the like the allure, but just like, this is a real thing. And we're just going to show it in unsparing terms. People didn't give a shit. And like what I love is that Maddie's boss, played by the great Rebecca Pigeon, is giving that line of like, people are like, something serious is going on, but you can tell that she doesn't give a shit actually. Dylan Reed with the mask like off his face. What's the point of wearing the mask if you're going to wear it like that? Like mask off your face, fucking family guy hat. Like just really the shorthand is very good on this show. Deciding to tell a Hollywood story is this fucking play about us kind of story with Sharon Stone as a showrunner and Lexi working as a PA and all that sort of stuff like that to give us the world of publicity. What Maddie is representing is like an under explored aspect. But I like I'm friends with a lot of publicists and it was just like kind of a joy to me to watch her. We got a little bit of it in episode one, but to like watch her work her shit inside of this episode was really satisfying. I could just watch the taking swipes at Cassie for hours. If that was a whole spin off show, I'd be tuned in for every episode. And Nate making it about him was like pretty phenomenal. Well, let's I mean, to spin off into the Nate and Cassie stuff for a second, we'll touch on it very briefly. I promise. How much of this do you felt like to give maybe Cassie a modicum of credit? Sure. How much was she actually interested in having an only fans and being internet famous and how much of it was I'm going to put this thing on the table so that Nate insists I take it off and trade for the flowers. That's interesting. Or did you feel like there was a point at which it tilted from one to the other? Well, I just am not convinced she's done with it. I'm not either, you know, but I think she wants attention. There was this whole the season two idea of the explanation for all the shit for Cassie season two is this idea of like if we're telling a story about addiction, she's addicted to love. And however you wanted to find love, but like in this case, kind of just attention and the attention that comes from. And you know, I will say in season one, the glimpse we get of Cassie as a young girl turning into a young woman and all the men around her who were so creepy when she still had the braces on her face and stuff like that. So like this messaging that she's been fed her whole life that, you know, and that even her mom tells her like, you're a beautiful girl. This is what you have to offer the world. This is what she's always been told she has to offer the world. Unfortunately, I haven't, I have not seen much else inside of Cassie to give a counter argument. No, Cassie, pursue this because there's like not much there there. Unfortunately, I think there were, there wasn't season one, but season two on, there's just like not much there. And so with her like, you know, and I say this with like, I don't say it to demean it, but like daddy issues, abandonment issues, all this sort of stuff like that. I think they be addictive nature of the attention economy that is online, you know, whether it's only fans or just being on any kind of social media as a creator, I think that's irresistible to Cassie. I still don't particularly enjoy her scenes as of yet. Yeah. But I do think just the idea of turning the vacant nature of that character into a feature, not a bug. Like again, making it what the character is about versus just like clearly underwritten in season two or like very shallow in season two, not by design. I'm intrigued by that. And specifically the idea that she has like, that Maddie clocks immediately of like, oh, she is kept on with this relationship to justify this betrayal. But this is what I'm talking about. It's like, like Maddie's there to take swipes at Cassie, the rude voiceover, like this dumb bitch, right? Is there takes wipes at her, the neighbor couple who are like there in the kitchen with them at the end of the party or just sharing looks and eye rolling and just sort of like, should we go home? I want to say this, Joe, you know, we live in a non kink shaming time. I agree. I'm glad we can all come around the idea that baby stuff is weird. Like they're just there are some lines. They do exist. Maddie's number one boy at gmail.com. If you would like to push back on Rob, who's come out calling certain furries basic and is now kink shaming baby people. Is there a name for that? Baby people feels weird to say. It's a little weird, you know, baby play. I don't know what it is, but I don't like it. And I'm glad that we're drawing a line somewhere. Cal is in this episode. Nate is in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to a shady character as that we meet in this episode doesn't seem great. Anything else you want to say about this? I think Cal's appearance in this episode and the way he appears to me is the most confounding thing about Nate. I just don't believe for a second that Nate even all these years later is like, yeah, come over pop. Yeah, I'm making some burgers and we can, you know, you can sit at my kitchen table and we have a nice chat. What? He hates this man. It's a great question. He turned him into the police. He sure did. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Here's my favorite part about the Cassie, the entire Cassie and Nate mess of this episode. The sequence where Juana who gets to title this episode America comma my dream. Also what a fucking pro. Should we keep the cheese? Should we keep the baddies? Was genuinely I think one of the funniest things that happened in this episode. That is the closest I think we got to seeing the real Nate, the Nate that we know is like, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. And I'm like, he will honestly would. Yeah. Also interesting that the baby play was beyond the pale, but Cassie full topless photo shoot with ice cream in the front yard. In the front yard where anyone can see front yard. Dude, just I guess nobody noticed or nobody cared or they enjoyed it. Okay. Let's move on to a plot that I liked much more. I will say the rise and precipitous fall of Angel played by Priscilla Delgado. She got less than one episode so far. We don't know, you know, I really don't think she's okay. I don't think she's making it out of hope Springs rehab. That feels like a place you put people to disappear them, especially when she's talking about people disappearing in California, this magnet under the dirt, all this sort of stuff like that. Once Ru promises, I'll be back to pick you up. I promise it'll be fine. We're done. But Priscilla Delgado, the actress is playing Angel. I thought she was fantastic. Really great. And I thought this whole thing was really good. I mean, she's a hellcat. The way she snaps her gum. She can throw a fucking shoe. Yeah. I thought she was great. And like, and like her breakdown when she finds out what happens to Tish, the, and then just like her complete, completely dissolving. Yes. You know, she still looked like a million bucks, but her hair was a little messy. And so she has just fallen apart. But she's wearing basketball shorts. Oh, no. But I just thought, I thought this was really, really good. I really liked it. And I think the framing is really smart of she's kind of the girl who's catching Ru's eye. And so then she catches our eye, right? Like, we're following her in every scene to see like, what's going on with her and Ru. And then we're seeing the way that her friend disappearing is taking a toll on her, her sobbing and trying to make these calls, like trying to get in touch with this person who's disappeared from her life. And for as often as I would presume that kind of happens in this line of work or those adjacent to it, like this is uncharacteristic and this is scary. And like, you just fall into her corner so quickly. Rob is writing lines. He's like, baby play, no. Also this uncharacteristic. I'm clearly very familiar with how to run a strip club. Well, I think, you know, we're watching Ru. You know, she's like, I know a lot of people who have died from fentanyl. But this is the first time I've had to like help disappear a body, watching her like clear the hair out of the drain, like let's eliminate every trace of this woman. And checkoffs like earring or whatever that tumbles out of the rug. Like there's a lot of checkoff stuff inside of this episode. But like, so Ru is complicit in that, right? She has just said, okay, God brought me here, but also have I made a bargain with the devil and Sam Levinson and all of his subtleties, like giant flames in front of Ru as she says that. But you know what? You like it. That's why I'm here. I like it too. This is why this is, you brought up, well, you brought up the Sheridan comp. Like this is why I'm here and not watching Yellowstone. It's like, you're either over there, like, don't get wrong, maybe this is my background talking. I have great allowance in my life for people in cowboy hats, speechifying. Like I'm just, I'm, I'm on board. It's your route. It's, it's, it's where I come from. And so having Alamo like do his spills out on the balcony, fucking in. Yeah. But I'm interested in more in like this, yeah, over the top, yeah, hit you over the head kind of visual flair than I am necessarily the soapier aspects of the Sheridan verse. I really agree. I have, like honestly, I had the bullet list of all the sort of the complaints people had. And my last bullet was like, and I'm still having a great time. I like this stuff. I like you, Moria. I don't know what to tell you. But so watching Ru help disappear a body. Yep. And then drive Angel to this shady establishment that like she knows the foreboding is not on the up and up, right? If anyone, she knows what this is supposed to look like. And it's not like dirt under the fingernails are a no flickering fluorescence are a no, like the haunted aura of this place is an absolute no. And so, but she does it anyway. And if, if Angel doesn't make it out of that situation, if she is like already dead as we speak, that's two young women that Ru, a person who has been a young woman in peril in the course of the show herself is complicit in helping cover up. So this idea of like euphoria season three talking about grappling with evil, it's like, how much, how much can we watch Ru be complicit in and still be with her? Probably, we can go pretty far because Andea is Andea, but like what do you want? How much can Ru experience that and go through and not go reeling off to the side as a result? I think this one is even different, right? There's the covering up the death and the OD. You could convince yourself and talk yourself into that if you're Ru, maybe this is her trying to tell Angel the truth about what happened to Tish Angel, her whole life kind of sub-reading as a result of that truth. And then driving her to the rehab facility where she might be disappeared. I just think Ru would take a totally different level of responsibility for something like this. Ru being like, they take you bowling. Well, let me ask you this. Obviously, we are meant to wonder, will we ever see Angel again? Is she just being disappeared? If you're Alamo though. Why go to the trouble of the sham of the rehab? Like what's the song Andea? You just had Ru get rid of a dead body. Well, what if they, I mean, if you get rid of every girl that way of like, just rolling them up in a rug, people might ask questions, but if a woman like, because if they just disappear that way by staging an OD or something like that inside of a rehab facility, that's a cleaner way to dispose of someone, right? I guess in theory, it's just, I agree. It seems quite elaborate. The question is, who is he doing it for? Is it for Ru and the other people working for him? Is it for the other girls at the club? Is it for just like the broader awareness of his operation? It seems like something he does all the time because they know to expect him. For sure. And all the rest. No paperwork, guy outside with a cigarette, just kind of like lurking about, it's going great. Here's the check-offs list that I would like to run through. Let's do it. The camera in the sort of, in the private room, in the champagne room. 100%. Okay. We get double safe check-in in this episode, right? Over in Camp Laurie, the safe gets open to get the gun out because the pig is dropped off there. We'll talk about the pigs a bit more. And then we get Big Eddie, played by the great Kadeem Hardison, Dwayne Wayne, from a different world himself. Very excited for me, a 90s kid to see him. But, you know, Ru turns her back while he opens the safe there. There's two safes on each side of the warring crime families inside of this. So my question is, which safe is getting robbed, or can Fay and Ru together double-save it? I would love the double-save path. Especially now that we know Fay's fella, a chicken guy, just a straight up Nazi. Oh, you were surprised? Well, I can't say I'm surprised, but like, whatever they had cooking, I didn't know he was like, tad on the chest, flag on the wall, Nazi. I had some questions. Yeah. And you're like, tad on the chest, I could excuse. I've spent time with Boy Crowder, but flag on the wall. That's the worst you've ever had. Maybe you should have the money to get it removed yet. You know, it's like, it's a process. Right, right, right. The laser, I mean, it's his whole thing. Yeah. I mean, I would love the double, but I think the strip club safe specifically. Any safe behind a painting is going to get robbed. Yeah, okay. I think it's both. I'm hoping for both, and I'm hoping Fay's involved. And I hope, I'm hoping it's like a really fun, because yes, this show still has a lot of stylistic oomph, but we're missing a bit of the like, Ru does a slideshow or something I really liked in season one. Cassie's like ice skating routine during like her abortion. Like he's like really sort of surreal moments. We haven't had a little impression. Yeah. And so I wouldn't mind this isn't quite like a pressionistic or surreal, but like a Thomas Crown esque like split screen sort of like multi heist. I love a heist. A double heist. I am in a dream world. Well, while we're talking stylistic oomph, I think the Tarantino influence on these first two episodes is kind of like right there in ways that may appeal to you or may not. I did think in this episode, and this can get into the pig talk if you like. That's exactly where I'm going. That whole conversation was like, what is this? It felt like someone writing Reservoir Dogs tipping dialogue badly. It was like Reservoir Dogs meets I'm a white guy and I love to write the N-word into scripts all the time. Well, that I mean, I mean, and so like Quentin, we're also paging you on that. Exactly. So our listener Adam wrote and said, great pod, but has a show ever ever modeled Quentin Tarantino so relentlessly and frankly shamelessly. Did you both not notice this? I found it extremely distracting. And I will say in episode two, when the N-word start flying back and forth and you get written by, directed by, created by, executive produced by a white guy, Sam Levinson, I was like, I have some questions about this. But yeah, that whole round table with our guy, March on Lynch, and felt very Reservoir Dogs, very just sort of like Royale with cheese also, just sort of like, you know, like talking about the nature of pigs and all that sort of stuff like that. It was, yes. It felt like it was supposed to be like buzzing, popping dialogue and it just was not. It was just not hitting for you. Where you, well, you already said you love watching Alamos be defying, but like other than that, like anything else you want to say about sort of the, the, the dueling crime families, we get a bit with a dog, which you always love, Lieutenant Dan. He's fired from Lieutenant Dan, you know, watchdog duties, anything you want to say about this crime story. I mean, I also like the pig introduction at the end. You know, I mean, look, we were going to get a remember the Alamo or remember Alamo drop at some point. It was, it did come faster than you thought. It did. I thought there'd be a little more restraint, but what show am I watching? I do have questions about the pigs in general. Like, are Alamos pigs, deadwood style pigs, which is to say the ones that eat dead bodies to hide them. That's so funny that you say, yeah, okay. I was thinking like Guy Ritchie style pigs, but yeah, same, same, same. Also that works. Or are they tax break pigs? If you have farm animals on the land, you just get different accommodations for tax purposes. At least, at least it is in a lot of places. We got to check the codes on California. I mean, how much land do you have Joe? I think I could do a small coop. We might have to go to like a processing quantity of coop. You know, you might have to have a certain amount where registered farm. I would imagine, right? The people who've tried to loop this stuff. I don't, I don't like that you said process. At least now we know how to do it after episode one. But I'm wondering what the purpose of the pigs is other than this episode. I thought for sure they were people eating pigs. I assume. Why be a crime boss and have pigs on your property if not to eat corpses? So we're burning the rug, but feeding the corpse to the pigs. That's my guess. Also tracks. Also tracks in terms of like Alamo's larger thing with Lori about like, you took one of my girls, I'm going to take one of yours. And if like, I'm going to put the pig who just ate her dead body in your house and it's going to shit all over your floor. Shit like her remains on the floor. Yeah. I'm going to make this your mess. Yeah. Thematically again, very elegant in the way that euphoria often is. Also just a lot of shit in this episode. And I'm not opposed to a Babylon style. And an episode one as well. Well, I mean, it's just like ruin face shitting themselves in episode one. Obviously the pig shitting on the floor. Some people thought we missed the dog eating the shit we caught. I just just want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about poor Lieutenant Dan. Yes. You know, but anyway, there's just a lot of shit. Yeah. Is that going to be a runner throughout the entire season? I kind of hope not. But who knows? What did you make of Jules entrance into the show this season? Hunter Schaefer is here and he dramatically long way, etc. etc. I mean, I want as much Jules as we can get. And that seems to be in at least from my view in watching seasons one and two, one of the fundamental tensions of the show is like, how much do you want to put Jules at the center of the frame versus how much do you want to make her this light that's coming in from the sides? And her situation and her circumstances and who she is as a person feel a little different. But honestly, Jules and by extension, Hunter Schaefer only more ethereal here in season three somehow. Otherworldly, alien almost complimentary alien sort of way. Full elven mode at this point. Like always a welcome presence on the show. I love watching Jules and Root bounce off each other and try to make sense of each other and try to make space in their lives for each other and ultimately fail. So I'm glad we're here. Jules being like monogamy is a construct in Root being like, so you say and I have a chance. Really great. And the way that like Zendaya just sort of like plopped down on the floor, just like dirty converse on, you know, like fresh off of cleaning the toilets or whatever, just like great stuff. Jules who shows up in season one as this sort of like yeah otherworldly alien creature inside of suburbia and to be even more sort of unattainably up in the clouds in this penthouse this season I think is great. Particularly at first blush to feel like colder and a little more distant than she used to be. And I really do think as far as you know, those jumps in personality we were talking about for these characters, this one feels like really rewarding immediately. And I give Hunter Shae for a lot of credit for that just in terms of that like physical conveyance of Jules in season one is very confident in who she is in a very specific way, but also like searching for so much, including the affirmation of all these men that she's sleeping with. And then over the course of time, like she unravels, she puts herself back together, she's trying to distance her room, she's trying to pull real closer, all that stuff is happening. This just feels like a a different person in the sense that she has manifested a lot for herself and convinced herself of a totally different set of life criteria. Yeah. And I'm very eager to see what that means for her. Anything else you want to say about this episode? I liked it. I really did like it. I like this show. I'm having a very good time with it so far because it's euphoria, there's always going to be stuff in the mix that doesn't really work and that we don't really like very much, but this is a fun ride for me. Maybe episode three is just a total swerve off the cliff, but I'm a little confused so far as to why the critical response was so poor. Well, I will say critics didn't really like season two either, as it was my experience. And I think are super burned off the idol, understandably, because what a trash fire that was. So I think, you know, they're just like Sam Levinson, I'm over it, fair enough. One question you had had was sort of given that these people graduated from high school, if we're giving a hyper realistic version of the story, none of these people still talk to each other. Probably. Cassie and Nate certainly aren't still together, like all this other stuff like that. Well, but her force of will to make it feel justified. But your question was how will the plot bend to, you know, how will these people intersect and interact? Yeah. How is it going so far? Are you excited that Maddie's invited to the wedding? How soon do you want the wedding episode? I totally forgot she's invited to the wedding. Yeah. Now I really need the wedding episode. Well, I invited to the wedding, you know, like, will this be the event of the century? I mean, Lexi obviously will be there. Lexi will be there. Parents will be there. Oh, don't tease me with the Susan appearance in season three. I think most of it has felt fairly organic. The one that I was maybe like, I don't know that Rue and Maddie are just like hanging out like this, having this chat. But I also love that scene so much that I'm willing to forgive a lot. Yeah. I think the big one that this episode asks you to buy is that if Cassie did reach out to Maddie, then Maddie would go. Or that Cassie would reach out in the first place. The funny thing is, is like, when Nate's like, for vent, like, did you invite her to the wedding for vengeance? But like, that's why Maddie's showing up to like, fuck with her and show off how much better she's doing, even if she's not technically, but like to make her feel that way. Right. The, as you said, I could watch her make Cassie feel small all day long. It's very exciting. Get ready for round three. That's our most toxic trade. It's like, we do want to participate in some level on the Sydney, Sweden humiliation ritual that is this show. And that's why he's Maddie's number one boy. All right. So Maddie's number one boy at gmail.com, presscTV at Spotify.com. If you have further questions or comments or concerns about euphoria, if you're hate watching it, if you're love watching it, I'm curious to hear from folks how they're feeling. We didn't get a ton of emails from people saying, I freaking hate this show. How dare you watch it? So I don't think those people are listening to this podcast, but maybe they are. I hope not. One thing I do want to raise that I'm really glad we dismissed with very quickly. I don't know how you were feeling about the larger economics of drug running. I wouldn't say I had a great feel for like, how many runs is Rue going to need to go on to erase her $100,000 in debt? I'm kind of glad that we just like, alamot our way out of it. And it's like, she's in this different line of work now. We made sure we closed the loop. So you don't have, you know, you don't need to go to the forums and like say that we left this hanging. But also like, I didn't really understand how she was going to get out of it in the first place, other than that's kind of the point. I have a really important question for you. How many of those remember the alamoflags do you think he has sort of stockpiled somewhere? You don't think it was custom work for this occasion. It's like, he's got a box. That's his move. That's like, his whole life he's been doing remember the alamo, don't you think? Alamo birth name or assumed name? Assume, okay, not his whole life. But as soon as he called himself alamo, he's like, get those flags. Get them made. And ready. What's the point of naming yourself alamo if you're not going to do that shit? I really agree. Thanks to everyone who worked on this particular podcast. Devranalda's on this podcast. Jacob Gornetta is here. Kai Grady is around here somewhere, not in a furry costume. And thanks to everyone at Sycamore. Anything else you want to say before we go? Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Maddie. Thank you, Rob. We'll see you soon. Bye.