Toxic Parents, Immigrant Stories and Weird Hobbies

Lemonada. Phones are muted or off. Did you change the ring of my phone when you were... No. I didn't touch that. Mom, would you like your phone... To be a flip phone? and be off all this shit? Totally? Well, sure. Maybe. We'll revisit that. I was going to say, would you like your phone to, when it rings, say husband, husband, instead of Mandy Patinkin. Mandy Patinkin. Mandy Patinkin. Because I can help you make that happen. It's very weird. It's very weird to just be in public with you and your phone starts yelling Mandy Patinkin. Yeah, I would like that. All right. Welcome to our podcast, Don't Listen to Us, our Take It or Leave It Advice podcast. I am Gideon Grote-Petinkin, son of you. Catherine Grote and... Mr. Patinkin. Mr. Patinkin. We're here taking people's calls, questions, experiences. Also take your money, send it in. No. We'll take your money. No. What's the matter with you? Oh, my God. Yeah. We only accept it in bespoke, hand-woven manila envelopes. Yeah, right. Dad, you've started a new workout regimen, lifting weights? Oh, he's amazing. I'm so jealous. I tell you, I'm beyond excited about it. I've been doing it. I've had five sessions with this wonderful new trainer. He's just a magical human being. and I saw him working out a man who was, I believe, 75 in the gym, a different gym that I normally don't go to, and I couldn't believe what this guy was doing. On one leg, standing on a Bosu ball. You know, the Bosu ball is that half ball with a platform on it, so it's really hard. And one leg, and having a 35 or 40-pound kettlebell in his right hand going up and down and then over the head. On one leg. and then doing all kinds of things. There's a 93-year-old woman, I believe, that presses 150 pounds. What do you press? What do you bench? And then it's all people that are sort of in their 70s or 80s or 90s. And then he changed. We talked about diet and supplements, and so I just got rid of everything. I've been on it now for two weeks of diet, strict as can be. I can't tell you how much better I feel I had a concert on Friday night The improvement I felt in my core Because of the concert Was, I don't even have words for it It was like a game changer for me Make a new word for it It was a Hutterbuts And I just I'm ecstatic about it I'm so jealous Does it make you nervous? Do you think there's something going on Between dad and this guy? No The excitement is I'm going to get mom into it as well. We're going to go to our first listener question today. I really like this one. It's a question from Mariana, and it's an email, so we don't need our headphones. And I'll just read it to you. Hi, Catherine and Mandy and Gideon. Not all of us, but a lot of us in America come from people who came from somewhere else. It feels like we're forgetting that right now. You guys have talked about your grandparents who came from elsewhere. I'm curious, what are each of your family's immigrant stories? When did they arrive in America, and what were their experiences like? Appreciate you taking my question, Mariana, via Italy. Thanks to my parents. Oh, wow. First of all, we're all immigrants in this country, and I beg Americans to please be kinder to our fellow immigrants that are being brutalized and hated and deported to foreign countries that there weren't even their previous homes, places where they could be in danger. You wouldn't be here in this country without open, welcoming arms to your ancestors at some point in history. And so let's just, well, I don't even remember the question because I hear the word immigrant and what's going on with people in this world right now towards immigrants. It's so cruel. And I think my ancestors, oh, what about our... Yeah, the question was just, what is your immigrant story? I'd love to tell that. Yeah, go ahead, Huntsville first. Sorry, I just got it off. I know, it's a crazy time. It's a crazy time. Crazy time. My dad's parents came at a really amazing time. They came in 1904, one year before the Russian Revolution. And my dad's dad's name was Max Gorodetsky. He landed in Brooklyn. He started a garment factory, one of my biggest treasures that our dogs destroyed. And it still kills me. It was one of those cardboard photos with my grandpa, Max, surrounded by this bevy of immigrant women from all over the world that seemed to like him. And he was here for 25 years. And his name was Max Gorodetsky. My dad's birth certificate said Israel Gorodetsky. Wow. And in the middle of the night in 1925, my grandfather put his wife, his three children in a Model T Ford. And in the middle of the night started driving from Brooklyn to San Pedro, California. Wow. Which is as far away as you could get. Changed the name from Gordeski to Grody. Also changed his first name. Changed his first name. What was the change of the first name? Israel. Israel. He changed. To what? That was my dad's name. He changed my dad's name to Irving. He changed the name from Gordetsky to Grody. Did he change his first name? His first name was Max, so I guess. Yeah, Israel felt a little more Jewy. Yeah, but also he changed his name from Gordetsky, which I always thought was so interesting. Because he was here for 25 years. It's not like it happened at Ellis Island. But weren't they also fleeing garment wars between the Jews and the Italians? Well, this is mom's hypothetical. Well, this is what I found out. I can't understand why else. There were garment wars between the Italians and the Jews during the 20s. But not the mafia. Well, yeah. I'm sorry. I don't mean to disparage Italians. There's Jewish mafia. There's Italian mafia. Everybody got a mafia. There were wars that my grandfather evidently, I didn't know this when he was alive because he died when I was 13, so I could never ask him. I didn't know about this until like 10 or 15 years ago. But you don't have proof of this. You're just thinking this is what's going to happen. No, but that's the history. and there was something he did that made them leave with no warning in the middle of the night and change his name and change his family's name. That's not something you do without some game jokes. We had a great picture of him to support Mom's theory with him and all the women at the factory. That's what I just said. Did you say what happened to the picture? That's what I was getting to. That the dogs licked it off. Yeah, she said that too. She said that too? Yeah, did you go somewhere else? That the dogs licked the pictures of each other? She said the dogs destroyed it. They destroyed it. I didn't say they licked the old glue. It was horse glue or something. So they licked the picture off, which just kills me. I'm sorry, when mom talks sometimes. Yeah, really. I know. You both have that. It's part of the whole conversation aspect. Anyway, so that was them. Well, I get to hear twice. And I'm named after his wife, my grandma Katie, who died before I was born, but knew my mom and dad were pregnant with me. And so I've always had a connection with her. Do you remember growing up having a sense that America was made of immigrants? Yeah, I grew up. Well, what also came with that is that it was the best country on earth and never did anything bad. And my mom's parents came in 1928, right before the Depression. So that was a whole different experience. And they had a little grocery store. And evidently, and I remember I always got a free Abba Zaba when we went to visit them. It was where the Marte Perform in L.A. is now, Bunker Hill. What's an Abizabba? It was a great taffy candy with peanut butter inside it. What's your favorite candy now? Almond Roca or C's Almond Toffeyettes, but I don't eat that anymore. Dad, would you say I grew up in a home where you and Mom cooked a lot? No. Why do you think there wasn't more cooking? Time, time, time. When you're busy, it's tough. Mostly you've got to go shopping. You've got to pick everything up. You've got to plan it. You've got to do this. You've got to do that. You get a little stressed. You get overwhelmed with, like, the measuring cups, the measuring spoons. I feel like you think people steal things from your kitchen and don't put them back. Yeah, no, no. It's a little tricky. You go for this spoon or this cup, and I can't find it. Mom sometimes doesn't put them away. You come over and borrow them, take them over to your house. Somebody doesn't bring it back, and you want to jump out the window. And so, yes, it's a little challenging. Mom also doesn't believe that there's a difference between a quarter teaspoon and a tablespoon. She's not into the numbers. Yeah, she cooks by feeling and color and color. I feel like Marley's spoon has made a real difference for you guys, huh? Yeah, yeah. You know what? It's like GPS for driving. We're not screaming at each other about directions. It's simple. It's all there. It's right there. And the food's terrific. We're happy. and then we go watch a movie. You guys were going on about the lemon pepper chicken with broccoli and pinto beans you had the other night, but I didn't get an invitation for that. What was, why? Yeah, yeah, because I was hungry and I didn't want to share it. I mean, you know, with mom, she'll give you all the food off her plate since you were born. I'm not that way. I don't like sharing. That's why I like her more. That's right. This podcast is sponsored by Marley Spoon, and I'm genuinely excited about this because it's helping me fast track my way to eating well without losing my mind. Head to MarleySpoon.com slash offer slash don't listen for up to 25 free meals. That's MarleySpoon.com slash offer slash don't listen for up to 25 free meals. Please invite me over for dinner. Dad, what's your immigrant story? Where did your people come from? Grandpa Max came over. I think he had a brother. We got all this because you got us on that show. You got me on that show, Finding Your Roots. And so we have the exact information. But I don't hold on to it all that well. You probably remember it better than I have. His brother David came over first. And then he was here and then he went back and got killed. Which was an incredibly rare story at the time for somebody to immigrate to America and then return back to their home country. And I think it was because he was missing home too much and found a way to get back and then got killed, murdered. Murdered from a robbery or something Well but I think that some of his children ended up in camps That right I mean you always thought we didn have family Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got killed in the Holocaust and found out. But I just want to remember, they came over from Belarus? That is what we found out originally. I thought it was Bransk and Sokolov, Poland initially. But the research that they did on Finding Your Roots was that actually it was Belarus that my father's side was from. And I don't remember my mother's side was from where. I thought... They didn't do that. Well, they did, but I can't remember. Lithuania? I think Lithuania. Anyway, they weren't from here. Well, the borders changed so much. Constantly, the Russian-Polish-Belarusian borders. Anyway, he came. It was four brothers. My grandfather had three other brothers, So those four brothers married these four sisters, and the four brothers and four sisters were first cousins. Oh, my gosh. So that is the excuse that many in our family use for whatever insanity you think we behold. Apparently, genetically, it's come out that you can have kids with your first cousin. Well, but you know what's interesting? That's what I heard. Yeah. Are you interested in any of your first cousins? No, I wouldn't recommend it. I'm just saying genetically it should be fine. I think you get into problems when several generations of first cousins keep fucking each other. You know what's so interesting to me about it? And especially now that I've seen the first episode of Ken Burns' American Revolution, which I recommend to everybody. It's wonderful. This idea that any human being has a right to pursue happiness, I never realized what a radical idea that was in the world. There were hierarchies that were established in every culture that had its kings and its servants and its touchables and untouchables. And that idea from the very beginning, as poorly as we have lived it and acted on it, the aspiration of it, the idea of it, the mythology of it is so powerful. You know, from my grandparents thinking they could live better lives and less restricted lives as Jews, as people in this America, to our new friends from Afghanistan, who, when I apologize to them of them coming here at this very difficult time, the most difficult time in my experience, they look at me like, not compared to what we just went through. You know, that notion is so powerful and so unique to us. Do you know that it still is in the zeitgeist of people that are having difficult lives because no one wants to leave home? I'm very moved by the immigrant experience. And it's something worth fighting to remind any of the deluded people here that that is not what we are as a nation of immigrants. I mean, when you see videos of people being arrested and kidnapped by ICE, do you see your ancestors? Do you see your family? Well, absolutely. Absolutely. I see friends that we help bring over here, and I'm worried about them every day. They tell me that they're safe and the paperwork they have is okay. I see all kinds of people. People are being picked up that are illegal American citizens. It is unbelievable to me. Because of the color of their skin. The laws that are not being respected, the Constitution that's being ignored, everything that's being broken down by this particular administration is out of comprehension. You guys remember what happened, though, in, I think, was it North Carolina? Yes. Massive response, massive protesting. And then in five days of ICE landing there, they left and claimed that their operation had finished. Yeah, right. But it was clearly a response to huge, huge. We need power of that. There's unbelievably brave, really great actions going on in city by city and county by county. There are sensible immigration quotas coming into this country, and they have brought them down to virtually zero, unless you're a white South African. Which is so insane that it's like really the onion or satire. The level of hatred and racism and ignorance that's going on right now in our country is being felt by everyone of Republican, Independent, and Democrat. This isn't just a, even MAGA people are being outraged and they are showing their outrage at the ballot box. And that doesn't solve the problem and that doesn't repair the damage that's been done to people's lives already that may never be recovered. Many will never be recovered with the damage that's been done, like any war. It's a war on humanity. But I'm hoping that the extreme of this will really swing back and help us make a fair system here for everybody. I love some of the more creative responses I've seen to this. Two that come to mind was when Portland was being called a war zone. Right. Everybody showing up to the detention centers in inflatable animal costumes and everything to be like, this is your war zone? Yeah. A bunch of giraffes and frogs and like Pokemon figures. Yeah, yeah. vocabulary of how to keep you know what safe yeah which is which is from all of us working together yes sir look we've avoided a lot of these political discussions so far on this podcast i don't think uh that's uh helpful anymore i think we're all talking where we're talking because we're just so infuriated and exhausted from it i encourage our listeners if you're listening and you have some personal stories to share with us of people that you knew and loved or worked for you and injustices that you've witnessed, call us and tell us about it. And use our platform for some of that. And I think we'd also just love to hear from more immigrant voices, whether it's experiences or questions of crisis or also immigrant voices who are having fun or having silly things. We're going to be posting and invite two more of those voices. I just want people to know that you can be anonymous on this show if you want to call in with a question or an experience. Yes. I think it's also important to remember, while there is this crisis and this horror going on, there's also immigrants all over this country who are having fun, having beautiful times, having, you know, wonderful things. Medical practitioners, saving people's lives. Right. Finding scientific cures for illnesses. So it's easy to lose track of that part of the story when the horrible madness is being shouted. But Melania Trump's an immigrant, and so are her parents immigrants. Yeah. And Donald Trump is a descendant of immigrants. I think your point is none of us are far from this experience. Every person who's not a Native American in this country is an immigrant or brought here by force from slavery. Yeah. And wake up. Wake up. okay what's so bad about being woke when all you gotta do is wake up okay sorry headphones are on uh so our next question is from a guest who has joined us hello known hello known what do you want to talk to us about today are you with us i am Oh, there you are Hi So lovely to meet you all Oh, wow, Gnome, look at those beautiful plants Known I've known that Exactly, just spelled differently What kind of name is that? It's made up, my parents made it up They were hippies of sorts And To them it means known by God To me it means known by dog I am so envious of those beautiful plants I was just talking. We have literally both my sons, both our sons are great like you are with living things in their house. We have one plant that I've been trying to keep alive and it looks so bad. I'm debating whether to give it for remedial help to them or just give it. No, and I guess you're wondering why we called into your show today. Catherine had some questions. About plants. Yes, let's talk about plants. No, and where are we talking to you? where are we talking to you from today yeah i live in southern california southern california nice that's where i'm from and you have a question you wanted to share i do yeah so i'll just start by saying i have surface relationships with both of my parents and uh real quick as kind of a form of protection i would say boundaries a little bit of seeing them for who they are, and a little bit of meeting them where they are as well. I grew up as a sensitive kid. I think I still am a sensitive kid. Didn't always feel safe at home. My father was a bit emotionally volatile. My mother insisted that staying with him was God's will. I won't go into a ton of detail. Just point is they caused some harm for sure. I think I've worked through a lot of that in therapy. And I suppose because of, as I've gotten older, I think I've softened toward them. I think who they were in their own way, they did what they knew was best, I think. And yet I still grieve. And I suppose because they are my parents, because what might have been, what could have been a different childhood. and because I'm at a place in my life where the relationships I value the most are ones where I can truly be fully infallibly me, myself. And so my question is, and I would love to have a conversation about this, is like, have you experienced in your life surface relationships, either as partners or as friends or as a son and daughter? And how do you manage that? And do you have any tips? So they're no longer together? Correct. Your parents? Correct. They separated a few different times. They got divorced twice to each other. And they separated finally maybe 15 plus years ago? So is it, has there been any assumption of responsibility? Has there been any accountability from either parent in terms of saying, I'm sorry your childhood was so difficult and I would like to have a more intimate relationship and not just a surface? Is the desire just from you or is it from either parent and are your siblings on the same page with you? I would say some efforts to repair have been made on both my mother and my father side I really haven had a relationship with my father for about 15 years now though we did have coffee for the first time in 15 years just a couple of months ago My siblings, I would say, are, I can't speak for them, but it feels like we're all on different pages, I would say. I feel like if I were to kind of clarify for myself, it feels like I would like I was maybe the most sensitive and I was most impacted by some of the stuff that happened growing up. What inspired you guys to have that cup of coffee after such a long time? A great question. I would say so he had been reaching out for years. And I think even just a few years ago, it would have been like just the thought of sitting with him, like in person with him would have been perhaps too emotionally challenging for me. and he had reached out and I, you know, just on my own end, have been working through a lot of stuff and therapy and just growing myself as a human. And I felt content and okay and safe enough to just kind of meet him. And it was fine. I guess the one boundary, I should say, the one boundary that I clarified for him was, we're not going to talk about anything in the past. I want to get to understand who you are as a person now. And it went okay. Great. Good. That's important. No, and I want to ask, I want to poke around a little bit. What vocation are you involved in? I do a variety of things. I actually do some podcast consulting. I'm a sort of author, I suppose. I run an Airbnb. B. I do other types of consulting, empathy consulting for some organizations. And I run the household with all of our horses and dogs and chickens. Are you married? Do you have children? I am married. I've been married for over 15 years now. No kids, just all the animals. And do your siblings have similar difficulties with your parents? Again, I can't speak for them, but I do know that there have been difficulties. My father, in particular with my father, who has a volatility about him that can be difficult to be around. He just can be kind of a seething, emotionally fraught type of person that can be difficult. You know, I just want to say something. Families, I don't know. I have a younger brother who always refers to family damn-namics. Do you know? And I think you want to connect to the people that are your blood kin. And sometimes it is possible. Sometimes surface relationships are all you can have with them. And I have a lot of what I call chosen kin, people that I consider family that are not blood relatives, but it is just we have a 50-year relationship or a 30-year relationship or a five-year where we just connect without all the sturm und drang of that history. Do you know? So I think it really depends on what it costs you in your present health and your present well-being. How much of that do you want to sacrifice to repair what might not be repairable? I think it was brilliant for you to say to your dad, let's just start from now and see who we can be together. But it's a matter of how much time do you want to spend on the past agonies, or do you just accept that that was the past? Do what you can to be kind and move on. I remember when my dad died, his sister wanted to show up at a memorial and my mom actually said to her, this is a gathering for the people that loved Irv. It's no time for crocodile tears. I'd be glad to see you some other time, but you are not welcome here today because she caused my father such pain. And the other relatives were a gas. Oh, you can't say that to my mother. She said, oh, yeah, I can. On this day when my husband suddenly died, I can do anything. So I think you balance how much space it takes up in your mind. You know, how much this bothers you that you have what you call surface. And how much those surface relationships are as far as you can go with those people. and maybe just if you see your mom more often or if you see your siblings, that really starting in the present is great, I think. It just depends on how much it aggravates you or aggrieves you, how much time it takes up is what I would think. What you need to solve with them or you need to just let go. What do you think about what Catherine said, Don? I think that's beautifully said. I think that as I've gotten older, I feel like I've defined or I've continued to kind of clarify for myself what fills my heart and what makes sense for who I am. Obviously, that's always changing and should be, I feel. But I think that that growth and that perspective gathering and that, you know, not being too precious about things has has led to a point where I can be a little bit softer toward parts of my past experiences with my parents that were very traumatic and seeing them for who they are. And at the same time, like I, I, I yearn for and I starve for those relationships where we can, you know, and I, and I guess you find those in, like you said, your chosen kin or your partnerships or your friends where we can as humans be fully present. and not only be present, but just fall apart and be messy and get feedback and criticism and all those things that we need as humans. Those are the relationships that I cherish the most. I want to say a few things. It's dicey ground, this whole podcast business, which has an element to it that people call in for advice. from us, which I think is insane. That's where the title comes from. Don't listen to us. And I really think that needs to be printed on my forehead. Don't listen to me. But at the same time, I hear your story that you're telling us, and I run it through the filter that I know best, which is myself. I have a volcanic personality. I don't know your father. I try to be as kind as can be. I came from a very kind father. But I have lost it twice with Gideon, my dear son sitting across from me, recently in an unacceptable way. but Gideon has inhaled and adopted the the breath and the nature of the leader of our family which was our uncle Mike Catherine's brother who was a Zen Buddhist monk who we've already said some of it already live in the moment don't go back don't go forward be right here right now onward. And Gideon has, you know, he will tell me immediately that this is unacceptable the way I be. And also, let me just say this, and I'm not trying to defend your father or those ways or condone it or myself. But I do know that for me, I don't behave this in an inappropriate way. Sometimes in the past I have, but nothing like what I'll allow to be seen by my sons, my two sons and my wife. They have seen the absolute worst of me because I think consciously, but more unconsciously, I feel safe. And so the worst, the best comes out of me and the worst can come out of me to be witnessed. But what Gideon has blessed me with, more than anyone I really know in my life is helping me let go of it because I see him just moving on, saying what he needs to say, moving on. So I get to a point where I take a nap. I literally am. It's like Jekyll Hyde. I literally recover because I'll get so upset and I can't control something. And then I'll write a note of genuine love and admiration and unconditional love and also expressing that I'm out of my fucking mind at times. And some of it I can change and some of it I can't change. But I was using the excuse of this is who I am. This is who I've always been. I've worked really hard on myself and I've made some progress and I've made a lot of not progress also in other areas. But I've been blessed, whether it's with children or a wife or friends or any entity or human communicator, Or, you know, my dog communicates with me. But I've been blessed with people that don't give up on me and that don't give up on me. And I think, you know, I think there are incidences when, whether it's a parent or a brother, a sibling, a relative or a stranger, can wound us so deeply that the wisest thing to do for the rest of our lives is to stay away like a poison that, you know, don't eat that mushroom ever again. But if it's at all possible to be the leader in your family or in the relationship and say, I can't fix you. You are who you are. That's up to you whether or not you want to stop drinking or yelling or not listening or holding on to whatever you're holding on to. But I'm not going to do that. And I'm going to go for the best till the day you die or the day I die. and I just I've had the privilege of experiencing this with Gideon and he doesn't give up on me and it makes me better and I you know the Gideon fingerprint and the Mandy fingerprint have nothing to do with the known fingerprint and known's dad fingerprint and so I know that but what? I'll be quiet I've said enough I appreciate all that dad and I appreciate you sharing that And I think an important element here in the people close to you in your life who you feel haven't given up on you is because you have other qualities that make it worth not giving up on you. Right. If somebody is experiencing a temper or a difficult thing and not listening or feels something is unfair in a relationship, they have to have other rewards in that relationship that make it worth not giving up on you. You might lose your temper sometimes with your family or have a difficult time communicating, and I think you're right. I think it's a universal thing. We often save the worst for those who are closest to us. But the reason I don't give up on you and your closest people have is because you also have the capacity for self-awareness, self-humor, the ability to apologize, the ability to never stop working on yourself. You have all these things. And there's a boundary of love. Yes, that are very special and that make it feel like there can be progress out of that moment. and an ability to reflect and take responsibility for one actions A lot of people a lot of men a lot of dads in particular out there don have those other elements Why? Because, I would argue, a sea of toxic masculinity, never being able to talk about your emotions. You grew up in the theater. You grew up around all these people, mining emotions, telling stories about their feelings. What is your motivation? What's the action you're playing? I know, but I just don't feel that different from other Joes out there. That's most of the other Joes out there that you've known have also been in the theater. You might not feel different, but you are. You're exceptionally different. But this just brings me back to a question for known, which is, like, how did you feel after your coffee with your dad? Did you feel there was enough there that was interesting and meaningful for you to keep having a relationship, to keep exploring that? Such a thoughtful question. And I think both what Mandy and Gideon, what you have said is very wise. And I think there's a lot of stuff to pull from that. I would say that the meeting we had over coffee a couple months ago, again, we hadn't really spoken or had face-to-face time in over 15 years. I was a little apprehensive going into it. And I could also tell that he was very nervous. And that nervousness, I think, is a vulnerability in and of itself. I also have to remember that with empathy comes looking at context and looking at history and looking at the whole picture. And one thing that has allowed me to soften with him specifically is understanding that, you know, Mandy, you mentioned your father. Um, my, my dad's dad, as I've known it, or as it was described to me, he had a pretty kind of loveless childhood. You know, he didn't have a ton of love or warmth, uh, in his world. And that paints a picture, right? That tells a story that influences us. And so I do have to remember those bits. And so specifically to your question, Gideon, I would say that, I mean, we're all going to die, right? he's in his early 70s I'm not saying we're you know we're all gonna die we're all gonna leave this earth to go wherever we're gonna go and I don't want to give up on like that like maybe there is some growth there and I do I am open to it um and I think I think I'm proud of myself for getting to that place and I don't know if it is will be possible to have a deep meaningful relationship with him, but I feel like I'm open to the idea of being in his life. I'll say that. All right. That's cool. Go ahead, Hon. I just want to say, now, I'm very moved by the fact that with all these difficulties, you are clearly a person that's not afraid to feel, that's not afraid to connect with people, that is making this effort. And maybe your relationship with this person will just be having a cup of coffee every once in a while. And if that feels better to you and better for your wounded heart that is trying to heal than never seeing him again, then I think that's a good thing to happen. And we have so many varieties of kinds of relationships. And I think sometimes we don't give, You know, the emphasis is on intimate, incredibly meaningful, loving the best. There's all gradations that can have value depending on what you need from that particular person. Do you know? That's true. And I think the diversity of relationships is important and adds different things to our lives, too. That was Becky agreeing. That was Becky agreeing. Our dog. No, I just want to say this is something I know you know. That old expression, hurt people hurt people. Right? And the fact that you have been able to overcome that own pain from your initial experience as a kid and not pass it on is a real victory of your own humanity and your own healing. It was lovely, lovely, lovely meeting you and seeing those beautiful plants and say hello to the horses. I will. So lovely meeting you two. Yeah, same here. We had a teacher that I never forgot her words to both of us once where life is a messy thing. And, you know, for better or worse, it is. It's a messy thing. Some wonderful blessings and some amazing challenges. I wish you everything. Have a great day. Say hello to my home state. Thank you so much for calling in, man. And I hope to talk to you again. Thank you so much. Appreciate you all. Take care. Okay, for our last little segment here before we wrap up today, Dad, you had mentioned before that you desperately needed hobbies and that you wanted hobbies. And I said I'd bring you some on this show. So I just want to pitch you one. And the one I learned about that I thought you could be really good at is extreme ironing. So this started off as a joke in the late 90s. And the first and only world championship was held in Germany in 2002. And people have participated in extreme ironing. Ironing their shirts on an ironing board. They've done this while skydiving, while underwater, while rock climbing. How can you iron underwater? What do you think? i'm going uh to get uh i'm going to get 10 different irons yeah and uh 10 different ironing boards yes i'm going to buy 20 different shirts i'm going to probably buy 30 just in case i burn some yes and i'm going to begin training because i talked to you about my other physical trainings i'm going to incorporate this in my training routine i can't imagine a better way to um to get away from my troubles and where where are some extreme ironing spots you think you'll try some ironing at um some of the underarm areas of the shirt uh because sometimes those pinch the hairs under my arms yeah and i think uh do you even own a garment i think he's maybe misunderstood the fundamentals of the sport yeah no no then the locations for ironing yes i would um i wouldn't choose Costa Rica, I just find it too humid. So it's pretty hard to get the humidity out of the garment. Yes. No matter how long you iron for, and I feel you're in danger of burning a hole. So I would go to, I guess, Norway. I'd like to see the Northern Lights. Would you do it while skiing? I could do it while skiing. No. I would have somebody be pulling me in a sled, skiing in front of me. Sled dog ironing. Sled dog ironing. I would do that. I'm not against. I know there's a lot of hubbub about Mr. Bezos and taking people of means up in space. But if I bumped into him, I'd make an exception just to practice the ironing. Thank you for bringing it to the next level. You can send other hobby ideas our way, and we'll get my dad right on that. Ma, you don't need any hobbies. You're so busy. You have so many friends. Do you need a new hobby? Well, I would love to do, I would learn to mend things better in a creative way with threads and stuff like Jenny does. Okay. And I actually had an image when you were talking about this absurd subject. My Aunt Ida, who I adored, was the only person I ever saw iron. And I realized that she did it as a meditation. Oh, yeah. Because it really took her out of whatever she was unhappy about. I mean, she would make these starched things. We don't own any clothes that need ironing. I mean, we don't even have clothing that needs ironing anymore. Next episode will be entirely ironing themed. And there will be another person subbing for me. We'll, um, that'll be the tipping point. I know I don't ever need to talk about ironing in my entire life again. That's what this moment has taught you? Yes, that's what this taught me. You should have luck because we loved it. Well then. Everybody, here we go. Ending the show. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sending us your advice. Send us hobby ideas. You can send an email to askmandiandkatherine at gmail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. And thank you so much for being here. And tuning in. Thanks for not listening to us. Okay. Listen to me. Are you listening to me? Yes. Listen to me. Don't listen to us. I want you to listen to me. I need you to listen to me. I need you. Goodbye. I've been trying to end this episode for 20 minutes. I've been a fishing and I've been a listening a lot. I go fishing and I'm just a listening. I'm just a listening a lot. So don't tell me what to do And don't just call me who Is not the one who's listening to you Don't listen in Don't listen in Don't listen to us is a Lemonada Media Original Hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Catherine Grody, and Gideon Grody Patinkin Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco, and Gideon Grody-Pedinkin. Executive producers are Catherine Grody, Gideon Grody-Pedinkin, Mandy Pedinkin, Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova-Kramer, and Stephanie Whittles-Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. A video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. you can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind-the-scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans, and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts, head to LemonadaPremium.com to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership. That's LemonadaPremium.com. Don't miss out. We often record these episodes in advance so we don't get to respond in real time to what's going on in our country. It is a hard and frightening time. We believe we all have to do whatever we can to help protect our immigrant family members, friends, colleagues, and neighbors. Today we want to offer just two ways to get involved. Connect with Indivisible, a grassroots organization that mobilizes local actions across the U.S. Their website is indivisible.org. Another great organization is the National Immigrant Justice Center, whose mission is to establish and defend the legal rights of immigrants. You can go to immigrantjustice.org and click on the Ways to Help tab. We're all in this together, and thank you. Thank you. Thank you.