'This Music May Contain Hope' | Every Single Album: RAYE

Hello and welcome to Every Single Album. I'm Nora Prinziati and I am here as always but in person in the flesh with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, thank you for the surprise appearance in New York today. Is this going to be weird? No. We're actually looking at each other. I know, it's so exciting. You texted me and Kaya earlier today and we were going to record this pod but you were like, where are you recording the pod? And I said, I'll be in the studio in New York and you were like, should I come? And of course I said yes. I'm not sure that's an accurate representation of the text tone that I sent you. It's also not weird. No, that's just like how I, if I am impersonating any man, that's the voice I do. Fair enough. It's not, it's not with any sort of offense. That's just what comes out of it. How could I take any? It's great. I'm happy to be here with you. I'm really happy too. And it's an auspicious occasion because it's been a minute since we've had an album to discuss. Yeah. And it sounds like we're not going to have too many more minutes because Olivia Rodrigo just announced her album and we got a whole bunch of stuff that's on the way. Yeah. But this is a fun one. They're about to come fast and furious. And so to kick off this spring of music, we have a new album from Ray. This music may contain hope that came out last Friday and that we were sort of like, I think we were always pretty sure that we were going to talk about this, but we were waiting and seeing a little bit. And I'm really excited about this one. But tell me how it came to you because we did have a little bit of an evolving conversation about how we would cover this, if we would cover this, the ways in which we wanted to get into Ray here. But we did and we didn't. Like I think last week we were like, what are we going to do next week? And it was like, well, let's hear the Ray album. And if we like it and it's worth doing, then fine. But if not, I don't know, we'll figure something else out. We'll do another Peter Gabriel album. No. Well, That's not what was discussed. By the way, I think people liked the album. I know. I really had fun with it. I think people liked it. A lot of positive feedback I didn't totally expect on the album swap. So I think there's It came with the spirit of generosity and I think we both had a good time and I was really excited about how you felt about Michelle Branch. There is, there's one album that came up a lot in my DMs where people were like, you need to do another album swap because you need to give Nathan this album. And at some point we'll do it, but we can't do it soon because there's just a certain way in which if you don't like certain things about it, I won't be able to handle it. And at a different point in my life, I will be able to handle it. Okay. That is so cryptic. I know. I know. I can't tell you anything about it. Wow. I'm glad that it's brought all that up for you and that we're not dealing with it at all. I'm just like, there's a lot going on in here that you don't even, we're not even scratching the surface. Okay, fine. I don't, I don't, let's, here's the good news. It doesn't look like we have to do an album swap for a while because we've got a lot of new albums coming. I know. And so this one, Ray. In the UK, a bigger star than in the US. Yeah, but interestingly, like signed here to human resources, a label distribution company here, because in the UK, they were not willing to release her first solo album. Right. Right. And so then that was the deal that she made when she wanted to have her first solo album to get it actually distributed and put out. And then this is number two. However, this is the one that is coming on the heels of the first single, Where Is My Husband, which was released in September and got a big amount of traction. I think it's approaching like 700 million streams on Spotify. Well, I would assume get to a billion. Like that is a big song. Yeah. So I think it was under that context that we assumed we were going to do it, but we didn't really know. There also has been, for a long time in the UK, the music industry there thought they were dead. Like there was just nothing new that was growing and coming out of the UK. And in a lot of ways, the industry started to reflect some of those changes, like over at Warner and Atlantic, they've merged the US and UK divisions over there to just sort of eliminate their territory stuff. And suddenly between Olivia Dean and Ray and a number of others, like there's stuff that's coming out of the UK that is great and that really matters. So I think it just teaches you that it's cyclical. But the success of Olivia Dean for me sort of set up this interest in Ray. And it's not at all a fair comparison, but it's one that's happened. It's two women coming out of the UK who sort of combine some elements of soul and pop and maybe some R&B. But like Ray is for like downtown. You know, like Ray is what the cool kids in the Brooklyn Cavies shops like, oh, no, like Ray is like the Geese fans who are like, no, no, I'm into Cameron Winter. I think, but we didn't know until we heard the music. And to be candid, like, I get, where's my husband? Like it's streaming like 3.2 million a day on Spotify. Fate of Ophelia is streaming 3.6. So it's a big ass song. But it sounds a lot like it's got a lot of single ladies in it for me, which I love, like bring all the single ladies you possibly can. But that vibe to me sort of set, it didn't, it struck me as a hit for sure, but not a song that I thought was, let me put it this way, I did not expect what the other 16 tracks on this album contained. So that is absolutely from what I heard from that single. That is absolutely true. It's total red herring, which is really, really interesting. I want to talk a little bit about the Olivia Dean comparison, because I feel very vexed by it, because I am absolutely falling into the trap of listening to this music and going, oh, she's good at this, and like, which Olivia Dean is, that's not as much as her strength. And of course we can have both and we should celebrate these people. They don't have to be inherently in conflict with one another. And certainly they don't seem to be, but it is an interesting kind of A, B of what resonates, because I get what you mean about the uptown downtown thing. I find this, I find Ray to have some pretty obvious elements of just like personality and humor and individuality that I think make it easier for me to listen to this album and not be quite as caught up in the stuff that kept running through my mind with the Olivia Dean album, which is like, is she going to be an all time great? Because otherwise it don't. I don't quite know what the purpose is, because it's so sort of classic. It's so, I don't want to use the word basic, but there is a, there's a simplicity to it. It's vanilla, Nora, it is. It's, and that's part of what I think people gravitate to. There's some joy in it. It's easy. Yeah, it's very easy. It's like, it's comforting. It's a hug. Yeah, it's safe for churches and schools. Whereas this album is kind of difficult in some ways. It's incredibly bombastic. Yeah. It can be a little overwrought, but it also is to me really captivating because it is like, these are big swings. Yeah. Like there is, it is operatic. It is theatrical. It is symphonic. There are spoken word interludes, or like various elements of that on, I think all but like two songs. Yeah, she's breaking the fourth wall constantly. She's breaking the fourth wall. She's doing a curtain call. She's doing set up introduction. She reads the fucking credits. Roll the credits. All right. Thank you to Grandma, Granddad Michael, my sister's Amaran, absolutely. She reads the credits. She's playing voicemails from her grandparents. Hello, Rachel. Seems to have been a while since you've absolutely spoken. Like that her sisters are on the album. Fucking Al Green is on the album. Hans Zimmer is on the album. Has there been like, what is the last album that had a bigger like one, two punch of a flex of features than Hans Zimmer and Al Green? Yeah. I don't know that there has. I mean, there are stretches of this album where you listen to three songs in a row. Like, I know you're hurting, which has the London Symphony Philharmonic. I know you're hurting Into Lifeboat, which is basically like a, it's an electronic, it's like a Fred again, electronic song. You would, if you just listened to that, you'd be like, oh, this is a, like an EDM record. It's like a house beat. Into I Hate The Way I Look Today, which is like this traditional big band jazz song, which is crazy. Right. And just that three song thing alone, it's like, what is this album? Like, where are we? Cause it's not even like she's cosplaying. It's that like she's fully in it with huge instrumentation and massive arrangements. And it just, it's, it very much feels like a Broadway play with a bunch of different acts and a different scenery and they've completely redone it, but she's still the star who's out front and center. But there, there is, it's, I'm with you. I want to hear more about your overbearing comment. Cause for me, it is a very audacious and bold sort of album. They are all big swings. And I love that. I love the audacity of it. Yeah. It's, it's massive. Where does it grate on you? So there are, let me preface that. It's almost like the places where it grates on me. I don't even really want to fault it because I will take the audacious big swing that sometimes goes too far. It's like, it's the foul ball that if it had been 10 feet to the left and wasn't foul, would have been like out of the park home run. There are, like, there are times when she is dipping into the spoken word, explication of this is what's going on, where it feels unsubtle to me. Lifeboat is a really good example of this. I don't need that song. I love lifeboat. Oh my God. Lifeboat is my blasted into the sun. No way. I get that you're not giving up. I get it. But it's like, who are all these voices? It doesn't really say that much other than like, yeah, persevere. And I'm into, you know what I like about it is that she does have a background where she's done all these top lines for like house EDM kind of like remixes of pop songs and songs. A lot of them end up on like Love Island soundtracks. No shade. But I like that she's like bridging kind of that part of her background into this album, which is mostly not that in terms of the production and the overall musicality of it. I think that's cool. I think her voice sounds very pretty in that environment often. I just like the sort of, it hits you over the head so much with the theme. I start to go, why am I listening to this? It feels like a suicide prevention hotline to you. Yes. Yes. I love it. It's like my second favorite album song on the album. Damn. But like, so how, okay, fine. So how do you feel about like Beware the South London Loverboy? I love it. That's not too much for you. No, because it's like, I want it to, I want those, I want that energy to like swell in moments and then come back. I think the parts where I get a little like bogged down are the ones where it's a bit in the middle. Like, I know you're hurting by the end of it. I'm into it because it levels up and you get that big chorus. But there are, I just feel like, I do feel like this is an album that needed an additional round of editing and didn't get it. But I also would never want that to come at the expense of its audaciousness. So I actually don't even, like, but that's why I think lifeboat like really matters because it's a different, it just shows her in that genre and it feels, again, not like she's playing a part, but that it's very natural and native to her and stacked between those other two songs. I think it's very purposeful there. I get a little bit bored. Like, I mean, I'll be honest, like, I don't, there's no debate over what the biggest song on this album is. It's, it's where's my husband. That's the biggest song and it's going to be the biggest song. It's not even close. It's been a long time since you and I have run through an album where I'm not done, but I just hit rewind and listen to a song that I just heard three, four, five, eight times in a row and then finish the album. And I did that with Nightingale Lane. And I know that it's out. And that it's been out. I just hadn't totally heard it. Yeah. And that song destroyed me. Like, it is like just next level. That's why I was like, this is a special, special artist. The second half of the album to me is better than the first half. I agree completely. There's a lot. There's plenty that I like on the first half, but the second half. And I think that's part of why I go, I think the pinnacle version of this just had one more little edit because it does the amount that you've experienced by the time that you get to some of the true highlights. Again, you have heard, you've been in Paris, you've had seven Negronis, the curtain has been pulled up. You've heard the London Symphony Orchestra. She has done Jazz Hall. She has done opera. She has done, we've been to the club. Like, it's, I don't, I love so much that this is a Hour Plus 17 song long album that asks you to listen to it front to back, that asks you to have an attention span. Like, all of that I am really for. I wish she made it a tiny bit easier. That's all I'm saying because by the time you get there, like, I do have this sensation of a little bit of sensory overload. Yeah. I felt that way on Beware South London Loverboy and we're only three songs in there. I was like, whoa, what is this? This is a musical. Like, everything just sounds big. Okay. I hadn't fully prepared myself for like a Rodgers and Hammerstein kind of album. And then, whoops, she slips into the WhatsApp Shakespeare, which is a little more Destiny's Child. And I'm like, okay, this is a little more what I thought was happening. Well, Nat is a song that I like. I think it's really funny. I think some of the lyrical content is the best. If we're doing Tough Love, when she gets to the punchline in the last minute, which was when she's doing the like, the seven other leading ladies, which I think is really fun. It is so chock full of personality. That is trading a punchline for what would ordinarily be asked to be a moment of musical explosion or release or structure. And the song doesn't have that. It doesn't like, musically, that song doesn't go that many places. Instead, she tells a story and she makes you laugh and she does a bit and you reach a narrative conclusion that you don't actually reach musically. Yeah, I think that's fair. And if I'm picking nits and something that I really, really like, like that is, that's a piece of it. I just think the whole thing like peeks at the top of Nightingale Lane. Like she just throws everything that she has at it. And you, there's like a tragedy in that song because it's like she's trying to convince herself that she's going to feel that again. But by definition, the like emotive set of feelings that created the song itself, just to the outside observer, it seems impossible to ever be able to replicate. And in fact, no one's ever going to love you like that again. It'll be different. Where the backing vocals are doing the like, are contradicting her, where she's like, it's never going to happen again. But then the backing vocals like just tonight. I think that's so smart. And it's such a cool song. There's, she's doing it with the full symphony at Abbey Road Studios. There's a video of it. And I just, I was like, this one, this thing is real. Like, this is a real ass artist. And then, but it's hard after that then to get, I mean, skin and bones is interesting. Yeah. The trumpet, there's some like New Orleans trumpet soul, R&B stuff at the end of that. Then you're into Where's My Husband? It's like, God, could we put this third instead of like, that is an undeniable song. Yeah, it is. And so it, it actually in that place on the album for me is helpful because you've expended so much energy through Nightingale Lane that it actually is a, it picks you back up. And then it sort of drops you into this little family section. Yeah. Where I think she just, she brings on her sisters, she brings her grandfather in to complete, I mean, he's a writer on that song. So I take her sort of literally when she talks about wanting to make sure that his songs get carried on. It's a very beautiful thing. But I, at that point, I'm like tired. I'm not bored. I'm not bored, but I'm tired. No, my reaction to Fields is, I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy for Granddad. Like two thumbs up, I'm moving on. Yeah. This is the part of the evening where we fall asleep, not try to go back after it. But then I actually enjoy is really fun. It is. And a great song. I do, I am like, I'm, whoo. Yeah. Like you feel like you've run a marathon by that. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that, that's what it feels like. But she does continually inject herself and her personality into those songs at the end in ways that are interesting. The Happier Times Ahead is not a song that I'm particularly interested in, but I love when she right at the beginning is like, I need a band and in comes the band, right? Yeah. I need a band. I need a band somewhere in the traffic on Bond Street. And then you get to Finn and there she is reading the credits and as cute as hell. And it's like, you just get to know her through the course of the record. That she is the like grand conductor, producer, writer. It's a thing, man. That this is, this album is a journey and in the aggregate, like when I step away from it, it feels on the level with the Rosalie album. Yeah. In terms of its complexity, in terms of its grandeur, in terms of like its ambition. I was, I don't go quite that far because of the language element, but it's certainly, I don't quite know the timeline. I don't think, like I think most of this stuff would have been either done or at least in the works, I mean, particularly because whereas my husband came out so early in September, but it feels like it at least feels notable that the Rosalie album came out this fall. And then now we have this, like the London Symphony Orchestra is very busy with women in pop music. Well, they're playing all over this record. Yeah. I mean, where I'm going with it is like, you have to be, we haven't talked about Hans Zimmerman. I know. What's he doing on this? Like she just, she's scoring a movie basically. Yeah. I tried to look around and like find interviews or find information about like how these connections were made, how these people were introduced to each other, like decided to work together and I couldn't figure it out. She texted him. She just texted him. Sent him the song and was like, you know, if you're into it, I'd like to do it. And they went back and forth and they did it. But like, why did she do that? I mean, this is a movie. It does, it is a movie from start to finish. Intentionally so. It's almost like a analog of a movie where she's taking you through these different scenes. They're very concise, distinct things. She's the common actress through it all. She's reading you the credits at the end. She sets the scene in the beginning. Like it is a movie. So I get, it's cute that she brought him on, but like, then she's going to bring her granddad on, then she's going to bring on Al fucking Green. Like it just is like, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome who? From Memphis, Tennessee, Al Green. Yeah. Like, holy fuck, that's Al Green. Yeah. It sounds like he's singing from Memphis, Tennessee. He's a little bit in the background, but it's fine. But like, nothing would have surprised me here. Like a Taylor Swift cameo would not have surprised me. By the way, did you see her intro Taylor at the I Heart Awards? Yes, I did. Priscilla, what is Taylor doing at the I Heart Awards? I don't know. She's having a nice time. It was just an opportunity to get up and say, Ophelia is my biggest hit and just remind everybody. I think she cares about radio. Yeah, she cares about radio. She cares about trophies and numbers. Did you see Taylor Nation post? What better way to celebrate the last day of women's history month than with this like, fan edit Elizabeth Taylor video? Yeah. Yeah, let's have a quick sidebar on that. There's a lot of people who are mad about that video. I'm not that mad. Like, I think it's kind of cool that she is lifting up Elizabeth Taylor, who definitely does not exist. Wait, why, I was not really aware that people were mad about it. What I, just that it's like, not super high quality that she's not in it. That she didn't work very hard on it. Well, I don't think that's true. I think she worked really hard. I think she's the editor. You think Taylor Swift was involved in the making of that video? I do. I do. And I think it's purposeful. I think what's going to happen is, like, I buy the argument that there's going to be lots more interest in her archive of films, because she intentionally clipped up a whole bunch of stuff, and that that's going to accrue money to an estate that, by the way, you know, is and continues to champion the cause of HIV medication and helping people with AIDS. She was like a champion for that. And it's Elizabeth Taylor. This was not everybody's favorite song on the fucking record. Will you please make a video? It was one of my favorites. Will you please make a video for Ruin the Friendship? Like, Billboard came out this weekend was like, Ruin the Friendship is number one. I was like, I never agree with Billboard, but I agree with Billboard. Ruin the Friendship is the best song. I am with Elizabeth Taylor's stand. I don't care about this. I just don't. I think that there have been so many things since the album where it's all the different remixes and that like, the I immediately tune out when I'm like, oh, they're publicizing a thing that like, Taylor is not actually in it. Right. They're trying to this is another but that's not a bad. I'm just like, I'm not involved in this. I just thought that it was a little funny that they were like, women's history month. Well, she's lifting up and celebrating an important historical woman. Yeah, I support women's rights and sometimes I support women's wrongs. I have to admit that I spent that entire video trying to figure out which was Taylor dressed up as Elizabeth Taylor. And then it got to the end and they showed all the clips. I was like, fuck. But I was like, you know, you could sort of, if you squint, you could see it. If she like, dyed her hair black through on the wig, like she could play Elizabeth Taylor. You're not buying it. No. Why? Because I just feel like she is doing and this is her prerogative. This is all just trying to keep the stream. I think that there is a level of like, churn stuff out in a relatively low effort manner. Although I will say, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something that happened to me the other day. And maybe it's because suddenly it's like 70 degrees in New York. But I am like, I'm going to be vulnerable on the podcast for a minute. Nobody come for me over this. This is just, this is my truth. Okay. I'm like going about my day. I have my phone on me. I have headphones in. And for what I believe is the first time since the life of a show girl came out in the fall, I felt compelled to seek that album out and listen to it for no reason other than I felt like it. Okay. And? It was fine. But that, like first of all, it is a little bit notable. Why would somebody come for you over that? Just because you're- Because I haven't done it. But we talked about this. This was not an album we were going to go back to. I've gone back to ruin the friendship. I laugh at wood. I've heard Opalite. The video was- Yeah. I don't turn the dial when I hear it on the radio or whatever. But like, I have not, made me want to go back and listen to it. And then I was just, I was, you know, doing some tasks. And all of a sudden I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll listen to Opalite right now. Well, that's why I think when she got on stage and said, you know, it had two of my biggest hits or my biggest, referencing Life of Ophelia or, yes. The Fate of Ophelia. Fate of Ophelia. Sorry. Life of Ophelia. Life of Ophelia. Fate of Ophelia. I felt like there is a difference between a song that does the numbers and a song that does some numbers, but pierces culture. Yes. And I just, I'm sorry. Fate of Ophelia is not a thing that like, is the soundtrack to people's lives in a lot of cases. It's not one of her 10 biggest culture moving songs. Well, and also it's, it's, everything is a, exists in the context of its time, right? Correct. And one that is a reference to just her overall scale. And there's always going to be a certain amount of just volume attached to anything that she does at this point. But also, if you, if you turn on the radio right now, like if you, I sometimes listen to like Z100, if I'm driving around because it's easy and also because like I'm curious what is going on there. Right. Like the amount of times that they are still playing Espresso, which is an amazing song, right, but is a years old song at this point. Like it is a current right now hit because of the dearth of those songs, right. Of like Middle of the Road, Zeitgeist capturing, but still fresh feeling songs. It is staggering. It is like it's golden. Right. It's Benson Boone. Okay. Die with a smile. It's die with a smile. Yep. And it's like opalite or the fate of Ophelia. Look, that whole award show was a thing created out of nothing to basically make money. And the way that you get eyeballs is you get Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey in the front row. And the way that you get Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey in the front row is you spin the shit out of opalite and fate of Ophelia to build up that sort of, it's a very symbiotic relationship where she's going to reward them if they keep playing that thing because she's going to get the numbers. She will show up and give her, you know, celebrity to the event and people will chatter about it online and talk about how, you know, and there'll be a few moments. That's what's happening there. I'm not knocking it as bad song. No, I'm just saying that it has an extra runway to have that sort of ubiquity because I just don't think that there's been like, there's been a lot of stuff in the middle that is exciting but doesn't reach the level of the Zeitgeist. Right. And the ubiquity that a station like that kind of needs to be able to appeal to. And then what actually is up there has been limited and not so exciting. And therefore, like, I'm happy when they're playing those songs because I would at this point rather listen to that than K-pop Demon Hunters. Yeah. Like, other stuff is more stale to me. Anyway, this is not, I didn't begin this conversation trying to, you know, crap all over this album. At all. It's not an album that needs to be crapped on. My statement was actually that I had a nice time with it the other day. That's great. And that I was just sort of taking note of that. I think that's what it's about. It's a nice time. It doesn't have to be 1989. Yeah, it's definitely not. It doesn't have to be folklore. It's the life of a showgirl. It's fine. Those two songs are streaming the most at the moment of any of her catalog. Great. But it's not Cruel Summer. It's not Style. It's not, it's fine. It's okay. And everybody can just appreciate what it is. It doesn't have to be the best thing ever because as you said, you get a little spring fever. Yeah, why not? You're getting married soon. That's fine. Put on wood. Why not? I did, I listened to wood. I listened to the first three songs. I listened to, I will say that I skipped Father Figure, which I was sort of surprised by. But again, like I was just in a light mood. Well, we're doing a Ray podcast in a Taylor Swift. I know a Taylor Swift podcast has broken out as sometimes want to happen. At EDF, we don't just encourage you to use less electricity. We actually reward you for it. That's why when you use less during peak times on weekdays, we give you free electricity on Sundays. How you use it is up to you. EDF, change is in our power. Hey, Sainsbury's, we get through so many snacks. Have you got anything to help me save? Well, we're always matching and lowering prices. So hundreds of Sainsbury's fresh fruit, veg and everyday products are price matched to Aldi. And every week with Nectar, you can save money on thousands of the products your family loves. So you can snack away knowing you're saving money. Sainsbury's, good food for all of us. Selected products, Aldi price match, not in an eye. Nectar prices require Nectar account terms at Sainsbury's.co.uk slash Aldi price match and Nectar.com slash prices terms. Okay. So Nightingale Lane to you is like major, major. To me, that's like, yeah, that's the moment of ecstasy. I struggle with something which is that I am, so this album is really not full of where is my husband's. There's one where is my husband's album and really actually nothing else feels entirely of a piece with that. Correct. I'm, I think I'm happy about that because that has given me some of the furthest reaching and most ambitious parts of this record. It surprised me. It had my attention. I just like, it's just been a minute. It's been since some of those albums in the fall where you start listening to something and you're just like, whoa, what's going on here? Like this is interesting. This is cool. You don't have to squint to hear the hit the way that maybe on Harry's record, it's like, well, is it pop? I think it's pop. Maybe it's dance no more. American Girls probably doesn't totally get you there. So this one, no question. This one has the big ass hit. And that's a thing that we criticize on a lot of albums that we think are sort of very rich texts, rich sort of fabrics of color that interest us. But if they don't have that big one that connects and breaks through, at least I sometimes will knock it down a little bit. Because it loses an entry point for a lot of people. Right. And this is like, because that song is an entry point. And I remember, I heard where is my husband for the first time in a spin class in the fall, like the morning it because I think it was like a seven o'clock in the morning on Friday. That song had come out midnight the Thursday before. I had no idea. And I just remember hearing it and being like, what is this? Right. Like, I gotta know what's going on here because this is something. Right. And I don't want to say that it's my favorite song because I just like, I want to be cool and I want to like one of these other songs more. But it's your favorite song. But I think it's my favorite song. Is it because of the spin class situation? Or is it just because it's just so good. Right. But that's how I feel about single ladies. Yeah. It's just like undeniable. It's undeniable. It's a totally undeniable song. It's like an annoyingly good song. I could listen to that song 50 times in a row and not be bored of it. Right. But I'll tell you the other ones that I'm really into are Nightingale Lane. We've talked about that. Okay. So you feel that peak in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. I can't get enough of that song. It's maybe a little bit because of Al Green, but I love Good Bye Henry. Okay. And I'm just, and I like, I am sort of still just tripped up on this like, holy shit, she got Al Green. Yeah. Do you find it to be a sad song like she dictates? No. This is a sad song. Though it feels happy. It is not happy at all. In fact, I don't either. I know I don't either. But that's fun. Yeah. I'm just sort of, I'm also so excited about Al Green. How am I going to be sad? Well, we strongly disagree on Lifeboat, which is fun because it has been a while since I really liked a song that you didn't like. Is there other, like, how do you feel like I hate the way I look today? I like I hate the way I look today. But like, will you go back to it? Or is it kind of like, oh, here's a big band jazz C song that is vulnerable and I think that it is in probably not like, it's like around the 50th, the 40th to 50th percentile. Percentile? But I would, I won't skip it. I honestly don't know if there's anything other than Lifeboat and like, I don't feel that, like having once heard the introduction and the credits. Don't need to hear that again. I don't need to hear that again. No. I do think the line where she's like, she has no umbrella. She is seven Negronis deep. Like really makes me laugh. Seven Negronis deep got me good. Yeah. She is no umbrella. She is seven Negronis deep and she knows as a whole she is desperately trying to fill. Yeah. She's in Paris. And then she has the gosh, what is the song where there's maybe it's just an I will overcome where there's a callback to it where she's talking about how she's like had too much to drink and it it goes very smoothly. And like for someone myself who sometimes rails against the presence of these things. I don't mind, I don't mind the intro and I don't mind a lot of the spoken word moments in the way that I often do. Yeah. You're super against Sinterlood sometimes. I will say that she's doing most of these differently, right? Because she has an, she has basically a curtain razor, a curtain closer. Correct. And then there is a lot of spoken word, but it is within songs. Yeah. But for me, it's sort of consistent with, it's almost like this is a one woman show. Yes. Yes. And so she's taking you through it. It's a cabaret. Like it's, it's raised cabaret for an hour and 15 minutes. And you kind of have to like sit down and pay attention to it and experience it. That's right. But front to back, you got to be invested in the journey, I think. It does less well as just background music because it bounces around so much. Yes. But you have to be invested in what you're listening to. Yes. Oh, shit. This is the Hans Zimmer song. Holy shit. Here's the one with her grandfather. And as you have said many times on this podcast, here's one with Al Gree. I just think it's crazy that like, that's like, let's stay together Al Green. Yeah, of course it is. It's Al Green. But there's a, there's a real sort of blessing of her that is happening in that moment that is important. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Hans Zimmer too. Like, again, I am really impressed by that particular duo of cosigns. Right. I think that's pretty crazy. I also think the other thing that I love about Goodbye Henry is I do think that that melody on the chorus is one of the strongest of the whole album. Okay, I don't fight you on that. I I also like any song that wants to go out for the last minute and 40 seconds or so and just do like four different key changes one after the other. I'm you're fine. You're fine. I'm into it. Yeah, especially when she can carry it with her own voice. I have a couple of questions for you Really starting with what what she said about Taylor, which is that Taylor is in competition with no one but herself Who is Ray in competition with because there's some things I mean, we've talked about the Olivia Dean thing There's the operatic singing that that you could say sounds a little bit like Rosalie and as we start to think about Grammy 26 27 next year's Grammys like this is an album that's going to be in consideration like the critical reception to this is One of the highest of the year. Yeah So I think that it is more likely to be in conversation and competition with Rosalia for Grammy stuff. I think more broadly I I don't approve of this, but I do think that she is in competition with Olivia Dean Yeah, I just think that it is really hard to escape the Uh Too really exciting young women who bridge this pop jazz soul musical thing and You know, they're both from the uk like I I I just think it's really hard not to put them In conversation if not in competition with each other. Uh, just the albums couldn't be more different Yes, they both have a pretty big ass hit but the rest of The fabric of these albums is very different Yes, I I think that's all true, but I also think that their audiences are more similar Which is probably the the reason it's happening I think that rey and Olivia Dean are competing for the same Ears in a way that's a little has a little bit more overlap than rey and Rosalia Hmm like if if If Olivia Dean is uptown And rey is downtown. I think Rosalia is in deep brooklyn What will you come back to on this album? Okay, so I will come back to South London lover boy um Sometimes I will come back to what's up shakespeare. I think it's really funny. I think it's like hard Very hard actually to do the balance of contemporary references And then the very period references without it getting super cringy and she's really good at it Yeah, I don't think that musically I will come back like it makes me want to come back to it quite as much But so south London lover boy clit clack symphony. We've talked about Hans Zimmer. We haven't really talked about that song specifically I think that's like a super highlight Is it like melodically interesting to you or is it just sort of like the journey of it? It's the no, it's the journey. That's what it is for me. That's an interesting element of A lot of this record a lot of this record is that I think that's why I call out the melody on goodbye, Henry She doesn't give you that many of those super juicy right melodies And click clack symphony is an interesting example of like how she can still make a song that doesn't have that Engaging and effective. I also think lyrically like The who let the girls out? I did I did darling is cool. It's a sad sight to see manola Blonic gather cobwebs as a bar Jim Jimmy to it's time to open up the closet. It's a sad sight to see manola Blonic gather cobwebs I also think that the idea of I'm feeling a little about a depression and I'm just gonna get over it because I'm gonna go out with my girlfriends Like I think that is something that can a lot of people can really engage with and really like I can get behind that uh But it's not a song that and of course the the Hans Zimmer of it all and the Music that you're hearing is so dramatic and so cool and like so It does psych you up in that way It doesn't have it doesn't have that melodic element, but I think it has basically everything else. Yeah Uh, and then goodbye Henry Uh, where's my husband? nyan gale lane Those are my highlights. Yeah, those are my big highlights Yeah, I This is a good road trip album Yeah Just to like be like Because it by the end of it you're like this is an amazing artist and you sort of understand Why she's shown up on so many other collaborations and in so many other people's music as a writer and as a singer I the only question for me is like does she need to pick a lane? Or is this the lane is the lane like look at what look at all of the instrumentation and different participants and different genres that she's mustered into some giant Jambalaya that can exist that she could replicate an album two or three from here It's it's funny because I think it's Driven by her enough especially thematically That it doesn't feel disjointed to me as an album it go it cycles you through so much stuff that I do get the sort of Kitchen sink like Everything has been thrown feeling from it, but I don't feel like oh, she's over here. She's over here Like how does this stuff fit together? I do kind of understand this as a cohesive album Were you into my 21st century blues at all? or first album Um, not really. Yeah, the honest answer to that is not really like I've heard it. I I Like it. I probably like it more now going back to it with a little bit more fluency with her She sang oscar winning tears at the grammy's in that spot. That was pretty great. Yeah Yeah Well, and you can tell that she's fun like she just is a compelling person She's a little bit messy in a fun way Puts it all out there Definitely not afraid to you know with the exception of uh sparing henry His actual name Right she'll go there if she does And again, I'm doing the thing that I don't want to do but that's the thing that I feel like livi adean doesn't really do Right But that that was it. It was just vanilla and I think that's what has made it successful This is going to be the same idea but I don't know. I think the cool kids are going to like rey. Yeah, I'm into rey. I'm this is an album that like I just I don't know the last album that I listened to and part of it is because like Lily Allen and rosalia those are artists who Have been working for a little bit longer at least releasing full albums for longer It's been a long time since I listened to an album and left it with just like Keeping such keeping piles of goodwill for the person. Okay, where I'm just like if you're gonna do like It's so cool that you did this. I'm so interested in what else you're gonna do, right? That's how I felt about this record And so I don't know. Do you think she needs to pick a lane? No, I think she just needs to make like just make art I mean I and the reason I say that is this album has a giant massive fucking hit So everything else that she does on the album around it doesn't matter. It's already paid for it's already being propped up It's gonna get the attention that it needs. You're right. There's not another like hit single on here I think knight and gale lane like is a thing that you should pay attention to but it's five minutes And it's like a slow jam. So but I also think like and I don't maybe you can Speak to this from a data perspective a little bit. I think where is my husband is gonna like have some staying power Yeah, it definitely is it's gonna be a billion plus Song so yeah, that's and I think but I think like okay, so over the last few years I remember last summer at the beginning of last summer Amanda Dobbins a wonderful ringer colleague Had asked me What's the song from this past spring of releases? That is gonna become the like All the wedding bands know it and play it like that type of song And the last one that had gotten there was pink pony club It like espresso definitely got there and then pink pony club got there and I really struggled with the question I was like, I don't I don't know. I don't know that there is one and I think this is the next one like this is Espresso did it pink pony club did it And I think where is my husband? Is doing that I'm not saying that I think that this song Is pink pony club is espresso quite? But like that is quite something to be in conversation with You have so much wedding on the brain right now. I so it's actually not why It is because Amanda Dobbins asked me this question last year and it's been like in my brain ever since Maybe that is why but I still think that it's a signal okay Well, it's definitely her biggest song and I agree with you. It's just like it's anything that's streaming 3 million Spotify streams a day six months after its release is You have a very very The slope of that decay curve is not very steep. So people are gonna continue to To have it be in their in their world for sure Well, particularly because it's not like it came out A month ago or two months six months old at this point. It is six months old at this point And people are still listening to it that way. Yeah What did you really not like because you like lifeboat, which is my cut? Yeah, I there's not anything that I didn't Like because I found it to be a really interesting piece of art But like happier times ahead. I was like, I don't need this right now. Like I'm done. I'm Ready to fall asleep. Thank you. We had great time It's been an hour I gotta go to work in the morning That's how I felt about happier times ahead. I was like, yeah, I get it Okay, we covered some of this earlier in the don't give up stuff on lifeboat And I know you're hurting and that was an uplifting message and the whole album tells me it's about hope. Okay Let me go to sleep Yeah, I it's funny. I like I think I'm I Bump up against it more in the ones that come earlier Because I think by the time I met happier times ahead, I'm like, we're barely in the album. Yeah, she's just sort of yeah, that's right. It's you it's like, uh In that scene and when they make it too easy in a movie or a Broadway show They give away that this is the the ending like that we're getting near the end That's sort of what that feels like to me. Look, I felt mad about winter woman, but I think it's okay It's got a interesting spot. I felt just okay about beware the southland and lover boy, but it's it it's part of the texture of this Collage that she's put together. Yeah. I mean she's just a funny like southland and lover boy lets her crack some jokes Which I'm quite often correct And then the the kind of break down the girls stay safe out there part is really fun Safe out there Yeah, she it's She's a she's a girl's girl. There's a there is a messiness to her that Gets glossed over in other in other ways, but she seems fun Like I would like to go have a night out with rey, right? Like you listened to this album You're like, oh, that would be a nice time. That would be fun. She seems fun into some shenanigans and Olivia seemed sweet Oh, I love Olivia. Like that's not something that I that's probably something that in the heart of in my heart of hearts I feel but Don't necessarily want to go there because I think it probably has to do with some internalized misogyny Okay Well, I think these are very different artists. I just think the you know receptivity to them Is it's going to be easier for people to slide into the passenger seat next to Olivia Dean but Ray is going to maybe be more rewarding in the long run if she can do all of this bigness and Again, there's nothing if you just start with whatever track where as my husband is it's Like 13 on this album if you just start with that you have no idea what's around it. Yeah Uh So it's like, yeah Why did it make me think of that scene in sicario where they start opening the walls and slowly you see all of the awfulness It's like that's it's it's the inverse of that but like you you just would have no idea what's You know in the scaffolding Yeah, it's totally like that Uh, what did you did were there specific lyrics that really stood out to you? I don't know. I loved I put in There's a there. I mean I said this there. There's a um Uh on winter woman. She says tonight. I kissed the bottle on the lips. I loved it I love that as a metaphor so great. There's a line from that song that I I love and it's not that one But it's also on winter woman. There's a bunch. Um, hard as blue dresses red your text is green and left on red Yeah, and that was great Is red your text is green and left on red That's the new roses are red violets are blue. Do you know what is uber exec? As a non exec myself just something that I haven't experienced or is that a british thing? It's a british thing. Okay Because like yeah, that's like they're uber black right like pre pickup at the airport kind of thing. Yeah, okay Okay, good to know but like man somebody it feels like uber's got a music sink team That's working left and right like getting people There's a bunch of other songs where people are referring to uber's like Well, I think it's just because you know uber is kind of the the xerox of ride share I guess. Yeah, nobody's singing about getting a lift It's probably happened What do you think about like there? There are a lot of applications referenced At least two right like what what's up? Yep uber She's in the culture. This is it right I mean at least she's not talking about like crypto I think that is what is so Impressive to me about the Lane that she's carving because she is doing this So many of her musical styles Harken back to something that we think of as like quote-unquote. I'm doing scare quotes old. Yeah classic But she feels very authentically contemporary. She like you just are so Clearly aware that this is a young person living right now and making art As a result of those experiences And I think that is a tough needle to thread When you know, she even talks about being compared to amy winehouse like being compared to people Yeah in the past and so that's what I'm so impressed different different stuff, but Um, there's a through line on uber, which is that it it reminds me a little bit of audrey hobert. Yes. Yes Who both who also references uber in a song but like there's a way that she's talking And speaking where she's cramming in a lot of lyrics and speaking very much In what seems to be a highly accessible way to young people. What do you think is the better dating pool? the world of young men Uh as presented in audrey hobert's album As presented in sabrina carpenter's album or as presented in this album What is a better pool Or which universe would you want to be living in? Yeah, that's the same thing as a man or a woman hypothetically In the abstract. I think probably not the sabrina world because you're you're You think that's the worst. I think you're a pawn in that world for sure. Okay audrey It feels very transactional Okay, you're approaching this from a man's perspective. I am you're not able to not do that I how could I my point is if if I were a woman looking good naphin. It's not looking good It's not looking good. No, there's not these are it does not seem like Uh, there's a great pool of dudes for these thoughtful, uh, Intellectual women who can communicate their feelings accomplished women. Yeah, it feels like there's almost like a regression in terms of somebody's ability to match The uh, the level of people like it's it's it's a little concerning. I'm concerned color me concerned Yeah, the the apps aren't doing it for these poor women. Yeah, it's funny. She actually of She mentions a lot of apps, but she doesn't mention dating apps. Yeah I Yeah We'll talk about all that another time. Well, we well, I just like here we are again though you know six months into the Grammy cycle and I think I'm more of a fan of the harry album than a lot but like There's no doubt. Just go look at the data like the streaming is starting to subside there. Yeah I'm sure there's some more stuff coming and some more focus coming on on some stuff on that album You know, I I continue to think coming up roses and then pop and then dance no more is the heart and essence of the whole thing Yeah, but none of them have None of them have like leveled truly leveled up. Yeah, let's wait and see when he goes on tour goes on tour and does that but But here we are again in a moment where it's Women who are making the most interesting and compelling music and they're doing it not just like Lyrically which I think you could have said in 2024. Hey, I Don't know the Gracie album um, didn't set the world on fire in terms of its melodies and chord progressions and just sort of again richness of the musical composition But she was speaking in really interesting ways But I got a rosalie album that actually does that I got a lily allen album that kind of does that musically I got This album that definitely does that musically and and I just like What's on the other side of the ledger at this point fucking role model? I mean the noa con album's coming No knock on role model, but like It's not the same thing, right? And the noa con album is coming and I think that's going to be a really interesting one to watch He's got his documentary I think divide Yeah, gemini is a good song. I'm into it. Uh, but uh, we'll noa Actually give us something that advances beyond hey, this is like You know, he's singing about the fact that it's cold and in the northeast again And sometimes if you're sad and then it's cold then you're both sad and it's cold And that's the whole thing Double fingers crossed that he is able to do that because now we've got an Olivia record that's coming soon and a song So a lily Rodrigo so it it may all get overshadowed again But I I still think here we are in 2026 and it really is women who are making the music that matter Yeah Maybe it's because men are having too easy of a time getting dates. Well that this is where I was going like it What's happening with men? What Did you see I don't think it's the guys having trouble getting dates I think it's them having trouble like being being on a date Yeah, like making it happen like stepping out of the shell of their own anxiety and social like compression from post-covid see the paparazzi photos of Harry walking around new york, but he's like holding his phone And somebody's zoomed way in and they could see that he was listening to the New York Times daily episode about like looks maxing and clavicular Trying to figure out what the fuck is going on I really that moment meant a lot to me As someone who also listened to that episode of the daily. Is that right? Yes What were we talking about? I Complete rabbit hole on this no, but what my point was just that I I think here we are like this This music is another like we're not in 2024 but we might have a really interesting year of female pop music shaping up like we didn't get something as bold and ambitious as Album or as Ray's album in 2024 we got really cool melodic stuff that definitely mattered We got you know the charlie xcx sort of experiment with You know with brat and the ways in which she sort of used constraints to deliver really cool I don't know, but it feels like we could with what's laying out in front of us Finally, how yeah, I guess I feel like 2025 was a little bit of a disappointment in terms of Yeah, no this stuff that made me go. Wow, and this album made me go. Wow It made me go out too for sure and if nothing else it's going to be a really competitive album of the year race I think it's I think some of that is like a little bit of a you have to calibrate the discussion a little bit differently in terms of what like super super broke through Culture and there's different ways to do that. There's breaking through in the way that like I think the rosalie album in a way broke through but it broke through to the sort of commentary it like People who talk about these things spaces. Have you gone back to it? Yes You really have mostly go back to bergain. Yeah Oh More so than the whole album, but I've gone back to it a couple times when I'm like Hanging out and just kind of want a baller soundtrack I also have gotten a lot of like random people into that album Yeah, who normally like wouldn't take my recommendation for something but we're like I listened to this It was the craziest thing I've ever heard and now I'm obsessed with it Okay, good for you. Thanks. That's sort of what your podcast is supposed to do Yeah, but not everybody in my life listens to my podcast. Oh, thank god. I'm grateful for it every day How'd you grade this? Yeah This is like really hard for me to grade because everything that I Every critique I have I don't really care about Because I think she did something ambitious and interesting and creative and exciting Okay I gave it an A minus That's what I gave it and I gave it an A minus because it has the things that I want it has a massive hit Has a ballad that slays me Has ambition it has like lyrical intricacy I think the only thing that I get left with is If you had to put her on a desert island with one of the genres That she dabbles in across this record, what would she take and I my gut says she takes Uh She takes algreen and the sort of r&b like that that is the most sort of natural Existence for her. Yeah Yeah, I think that's right. I think she takes like the jazziest version of that right Goodbye, Henry, but with some jazz Yeah She should you know where she should pop up is what did Miley Cyrus call belemans bellenmans bellamans That would be crazy malevolence Yeah, she would do an incredible set there for sure I wonder how she's gonna so I think she has some a show coming up at Radio city which makes a lot of sense. I'm interested to see how this tours and like what Yeah, what it looks like on stage how it tours. Yeah and I I'm particularly interested to see if They are able to move the masses that Are playing where's my husband at their wedding Into the complexity of the rest of this album Does it function as an entry point because again the reason it has a minus on it instead of just a hard a for me is I don't know exactly where to put somebody who says I heard that rey song. What else should I listen to next? I would tell them to listen to night and gail lane, but That's a different vibe Yeah, but it's also hard to tell them to listen to one other song. It's you kind of right want someone to Press play at the beginning, but it is true that then I feel like I have to start issuing caveats And that's why I like then you don't give it an a right when I I feel like I would have to say Do it when you have time Do it when you know, maybe you're you're making dinner. You want to listen to something cool? That's exactly what I did last night. I had two high school friends over And I made them dinner and I put this on and after that trio like after I hate the way I look today I was like you realize this is the same album. We've been listening to for the last three songs and they're like what? Yeah And that's where the intrigue comes from. Yeah, but they're also like musical nerds So that either either you get into that or you're like, yeah, that's cool But I'm not really interested in a big band jazz song Can I get another single ladies part three? The thing that I want to know for touring is how much Like What kinds of instruments? Is she gonna bring along? Yeah I mean, obviously they can do well, you know, they could just play it And she can just sing and she doesn't have to have an orchestra there with her But it feels so important to what she's doing that I wonder if there will be any effort to sort of recreate the feeling of being at a Concert or like with a big band even if it's an approximation with fewer people than that What actually it's not possible to tour this without a string section on stage. So right They'll I'm like that my gut says there'll be some pro tools like amplifying multiple cellos and You know, there'll be some things that they've got to put on tracks to just carry it But you've got to have strings on stage to give any fidelity to this album. Yeah which is Again ambitious, right? Like I'm sure that's not Crazy crazy, but it's still it's expensive expensive and You got to get people around if you're touring to a bunch of different places and so like It's it's also interesting for someone who because she had issues with her prior label Like you can tell there is a huge amount of buy-in To what she's doing based on the scope and the ambition and the features and the all the people who are playing like A lot of people said yes to her To get this made and that's Exciting and good and thumbs up and people should say yes to ray because she seems cool and smart and good at her job She's a real one. It's a big ass album. You should listen to it All right Anything else any more stray taylor schlift thoughts to just like No, no, maybe we should go to bemmelmans I'm there Ladies and gentlemen, I feel like I have to like be theatrical now because of of of this album This has been every single album as always. I'm nor princey adi. He's naven. Hubbard. Thank you to kaya mcmolyn for producing this episode And to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week You