The Knicks May Have a KAT Problem. Plus, Butler Injury Aftermath and Trade Deadline Preview.

coming up on the Zach Lowe show. Whew. A lot happened in the NBA, even in the last 24 hours, Jimmy Butler towards ACL. Really bad. Jimmy Butler was having an awesome, you're underrated, awesome, you're underrated, awesome player. As always, the Warriors, 12 and 4 in their last 16 games beginning to find their stride in the West. Probably never we're going to contend, but we're going to be a frisky team. Now they have big decisions to make. What does this mean for John the Camingo? What does it mean for their trade deadline outlook? And then Kirk Gold's very nice zoom around the entire NBA trade landscape. Yannis, what are the Lakers going to do? Who's going to duck the tax? What about the Pelicans? Are they really close for business? We talk about tons of teams, the calves, the magic and on and on and on and the nicks. I was at MSG last night watching the nicks get booed off the floor, losing to the Mavericks by a million points. That is going on with the nicks to an 11 or two and nine rather in their last 11 games have fallen to third in the East. Their defense is bleeding points. Their offense is in a big slump. It looks discombobulated. They're starting five is just and what is going on with the nicks? Can they save their season? Are they going to do something crazy at the trade deadline? Kirk Gold's very is here to debate all of that with me, discuss all that with me and we react to the all-star starting announcements. Kirk picks his all-star reserves. I revise my all-star reserve picks in Lebron. What is he going to do about Lebron? Is he going to be there? That's all coming up after this on the Zach Lo Show. Welcome to the Zach Lo Show. It's Tuesday morning instead of Monday morning. We waited an extra day because of all the games on Monday, Martin Luther King Day. And boy, is there a lot to talk about Kirk Gold's Barry? I was at Madison Square Garden last night listening to the nicks and specifically Carl Anthony Towns get booed off the floor as the zombie Mavericks without Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving. But with Cooper Flagg and without some other people took a 30 point lead over the would-be Eastern Conference favorites, New York Knicks, the New York Knicks whose owner voluntarily won on a radio show with one of his buddies on WFAN two weeks ago and said, we got to make the finals and we should make the finals. Whoopsie James Dolan, two at nine in your last 11 games. We'll get to the Nicarbockers, a lot of trade stuff and we have to start in all of that with the very sad news that overnight. I woke up to the news that Jimmy Butler tore his ACL in the Warriors win over the heat. The Warriors are 12 and four in their last 16 games to schedule. Which was just fraught with travel and game density for the first 35 games, the Warriors. I ran into them up in Toronto around the holidays. They were very optimistic that they were going to turn a corner even after they blew a horrible game in Toronto that I was at. And they appeared to have turned something of a corner and now they run into this. Obviously their season is effectively over. I don't think they were, I don't think they had any chance to actually make any real noise in the Western conference anyway, but any chance of being like a frisky first round over in the second round. It's two two. This is a really nice way to round out. Steph Curry's late career in golden state. That's done. It's got trade implications for Jonathan Caminga for Michael Porta Jr. for anyone else. The Warriors may or may not be interested in and I to be clear, I don't think they were ever that interested in Michael Porta Jr. I don't know that they feel his feel for the game and decision making fits the Steve Kerr, beautiful game style of play, but he's a good player and you can't quibble about good players. Just a devastating injury. Kirk I thought Butler was having like a really underrated year. Yeah. A couple of our colleagues privately scoffed at me for even including Jimmy Butler in my honorable mentions. I'm sorry we left you off the All Star team list. And I'm like, all this dude does is put up 26 and six every season. He's shooting 52% from the floor, 38% on threes, advanced stats, advanced stats, love him every season. The Warriors are almost plus nine per 100 possessions when he plays without Curry. He's a great defensive player. He's just one of those guys who wins basketball games and does all the cliche things that like don't show up in the stat sheet. Butler they show up in his advanced numbers, the cuts, the offensive rebounds, the tip outs, all that stuff. Just a devastating injury to sort of one of the more unusual star players in the NBA. I don't know. Where do you want to start with this? I may have sat. It's sad. I'd start with this is a 36 year old player who's made the NBA a lot better for many years. And it's just sad that this character has now been removed from the season. That's where it starts at. It's always sad. It can always happen. But not only does Jimmy just have this devastating late career knee injury, which is just an awful situation. But yeah, it effectively ends whatever chance Golden State had to be a first key contender in the Western Conference as well. So I think those are the two big headlines out of this one. It's just sad that this old player has this catastrophic knee injury at the stage of his career. And then downstream effects, this effects, Stefan Curry's maybe last best chance to compete with the Golden State Warriors, which is very sad. I mean, the NBA playoffs for 10 years now have been better in large part because of Stefan Curry and Jimmy Butler having these iconic performances in April, May and June. And it's just really sad now that the Jimmy's injury has taken those, looks like taken those away from us this year. Well, I mean, and the real sad thing is this was all lined up to be a two year thing, right? His Jimmy's deal and Steph's deal and Drey Mons deal with a player option, albeit all expire after next season. And like it's we're 40 games into this season. You know, Jimmy's 37 years old. Who knows when he's going to come back next season? Like this doesn't affect this season. This affects next season too. I mean, certainly the calendar and typical recovery times suggest he will come back. Next season and the middle of the season at some point. What condition is he going to be in? This doesn't wipe out this season only for the Warriors. It could. It could potentially wipe out next season. It does raise some interesting questions for the Warriors. All the attention right away was on Kaminga. Like, are they going to play Kaminga? Are they going to keep Kaminga? What does this mean for Kaminga? It saw Shams on sports center today and said the relationship between Kaminga and Steve Kerr is fractured beyond repair. I would probably agree with that based on what I've heard. I heard Shams float a Kaminga for DeMar de Rosen trade, which made me want to throw up a little bit in my mouth on behalf of Warriors fans. Like the last thing the Warriors need is another guard, tweener, whatever who like they just have a lot of guards. They have a lot enough ball handling enough guards who doesn't play any defense. And I, Kirk, I gotta be honest with you. I don't care about this story anymore. They're either going to keep Kaminga and he's going to play a little bit, play not at all, play a lot. I don't think there's a long-term marriage here to be salvaged at all, or they're going to trade him and they're going to trade him for not very much and not anything that really impacts their life now or going forward unless he's packaged as part of a larger deal. And to me, that's what's most interesting here is nothing new with Kaminga and more that this clarifies for the Warriors. Like we can't do anything, we can't do any of these by now when this season moves, whether it was Michael Porter Jr. or Anthony Davis, who I just don't think they were ever super into considering Dremons got to go out in that deal or, I mean, maybe I just can't imagine a world in which Dallas is so desperate to get all Anthony Davis that they then take an injured Jimmy Butler just for the sake of doing the deal. To me, this more clarifies the Warriors stance of, we hold off on all that, we get to the office unless something huge happens at the trade deadline in Milwaukee, which I don't think we wait until the summer reassess what we can get when we throw all our chips into it. They're not going to be the only team that does this, but to me, I'm just like, all right, this season's shot unless something falls into my lap, we're not throwing away an asset just to do it. Yeah, that's, that seems to be where we're at. And it's a really sad way to get to a place where you're really, really resigned that you're not a title contender this year, but that sort of sober reality is going to set in, I hope, in Golden State, because from a team building perspective, Zach, that's the right mindset right now. You don't want to start throwing good money after bad and start chasing things when there's teams like OK, C and Minnesota and San Antonio and Denver ahead of you who are much healthier and younger. It's sad, but that's the reality. So I think you're right. I don't think this is a win now move. And I think two nights ago or 48 hours ago, the Warriors were in that mindset. There was a win now situation here. We were 11 and 4, 12 and 4, as you said in our last 16 games. We have started figuring out this offense. We have rotations without coming up, by the way. And we proved that we can win a lot of basketball games with this combination of Jimmy Butler and Stefan Curry and Dremon Green. Well, the math has changed. And I think the philosophy has changed and that sucks for Golden State. And the response is now we're still trading Jonathan coming. I think, I think I think I'd ask you that we're still trading Jonathan coming. Right. He's not the replacement, right? Zach, that like you said, Sean said, this is fractured beyond repair, which is a crazy quote. So I think he's still going to get traded. The question is, what do you want in return from Jonathan Kaminga at this point at this new reality? Honestly, like if if if DeMar de Rosen or like they don't want Malik Monk, they've never won a Malik Monk. Dallas has reportedly kicked it around. I don't even know what to deal with the trade would be with Dallas. If I'm just not getting anything good for Jonathan Kaminga, like De Rosen, for instance, is salary matching decent player, good ISO score, only $10 million guaranteed next year on his contract. Okay, fine. They might just keep him and be like, look, we can get to the summer. I mean, this is a team that doesn't feel like it's totally out of a Yannis sweepstakes. If we ever get if if if Milwaukee fans, we ever get to Yannis sweepstakes and Kaminga's 22, whatever million dollar salary plus they can trade basically three and a half first round picks, plus whatever else, you know, they feel like they could get in the conversation if only because it's almost a bizarre logic to it. They could say to Milwaukee, like, hey, we're so old that our picks might actually have value. Like you, you should bet against us in the long term, maybe like even if we get the Yannis, he's 31. I don't know how realistic that is and to be clear, everything I've heard right now, Milwaukee, it's sad that we're saying this Kirk big win in the play and race last night at the Hawks or yesterday, I have to do that. The Hawks snuck it out, uh, uh, late in the games, he James McCollum got bottled up at the buzzer. Um, everything I've heard is like, they're still trying to buy. They're still trying to save this season. The East is so bad. We think we have the best player in the conference. They do. We think who knows if we get in. What kind of damage we can do? I don't know who the, uh, win now candidate is for them that actually makes a difference, but I keep hearing that they're looking around. Um, and, you know, until Yannis actually really pushes the nuclear button, I don't think that's going to change. And so the warriors, I think probably are like, well, you know, look, we might as well hold on to whatever we have, um, to, to see. And on Anthony Davis, I don't know, man, I never really got it for the warriors. I don't really get it for that many teams, but what other, let's, let's just like. You know, it's been over for the warriors for a while. Now it's like over, over. And cominga is on the outs. They picked him over Franz Wagner. The wise man pick is obviously the one that they'll just rue forever. It's over Lamello over Hallibur and over Denny Abdiah. In fairness, you also have to say it's over Kylian Hayes and Patrick Williams. In Jailin's, I think there's a chance you missed that pick. And then Moody, who's fine, there was definitely contingent in Golden State that wanted to look a little harder at Alper and Shenguin in that draft. And, and, you know, but this is you could do this for any team. Yeah, you could do the two timeline sync failed. It was never actually a plan. And now it's like, now it's over, over. And you can't tank with stuff there. You can't trade stuff ever and he'll never want to be traded. And that's admirable on both sides. You just got us hope for a miracle in the offseason, I think. Yeah, I mean, he's the most important human being in the history of the organization. And you have to do right by him. And that's where this is most interesting to me now because he's at the last phase. He deserves whatever he wants. I think every warrior's fan would agree with that whatever he wants. If he wants to push, hey, I'd rather be a sick seed and throw away the future assets. And by the way, the out years, you're exactly right. All the nerds in the practice facilities around the NBA, they model who's out your picks are most likely to be valuable. And warrior's five years post-F is in a Western conference with a bunch of young guys. That's going to show up as a really valuable asset. So in a weird way, you're right. Like that line of reasoning that they could throw out their, hey, our out your picks are pretty good because we're not going to be great post-F. But I think I come back to this. What does Stefan Curry want and what does the front office want to provide to him? Even if it means that the expense of long-term sustainability in Golden State. And so they could be pretty aggressive in the middle term here trying to build around replace that Jimmy Butler piece, even replace the Drain-On Green piece, if that's what Stefan Curry wants. So I think it's what realistically can they do to keep Stefan Curry happy as he wraps up one of the best careers in NBA history. And certainly the best career in Golden State Warriors history. The Chase Center is the house that Steph built. I'm sure Joe Lake-Up and Peter Goober would like you to think it's the house that they're business genius and light years ahead, Ackerman built. It's the house that Steph built. The whole thing is built on the back of the most unique and greatest shooter in the history of the NBA. They also, I mean, like it should be mentioned, they're barely, if I'm reading Spotrack, right, they're barely under the second apron and wail over the luxury tech. So it's not like they can just willy-nilly do stuff. Both this, at least this season, next season they get maybe a little bit more breathing room and then two seasons from now they're set up to be completely free. I mentioned a couple of big names. Can we do, can we just talk a little bit? It's we're two weeks away from the trade deadline more or less. You want to start with Anthony Davis or Janus slash what are the bucks doing? Man, I think you got to start with Janus. And again, I watched their game against the Hawks yesterday and the vibes were not great, but somehow Dairy Bird made that great late three. They swarmed, they swarmed CJ McCollum and steal a game after spending I think three full days in Atlanta leading up to that game. But they won against the Atlanta Hawks decent team and talk about a team with a major fork in the road here. I think they're going to be very active at the trade deadline one way or another. They're sort of picking Zach. Are we trying to do this around Janus or are we pulling the plug entirely? Are Lucy Land in the same place? This is a team to watch at the trade deadline. So I'd like to start there. I have never closed the door all the way on Janus being traded in season. I have always said, and I think this remains the case. It's the summer is always been the most likely place where this really, really hits the rubber hits the road when they can offer him an extension. And if he doesn't take it, he can say, well, I never demanded a trade. That's basically the same thing as asking for a trade. I've never closed the door only because of the scenario like if they just keep nose diving down the standings, all bets are off to me. And I don't know if Janus, if even if they lost ten in a row, Janus would ever go and request to trade. Maybe he wants to wait until the off season. It's just cleaner that way. It's cleaner. It's cleaner for all these other teams. It's not easy to just totally up end your team. 55 games into the season, particularly for Western conference teams who have a ton of assets like the Spurs, your San Antonio Spurs, your former employers. Look, you could definitely make a case that they should be aggressive for Janus. Now they're just good teams with this many good young players that are number two in the standings. Just don't do that. Even the Rockets who have sort of hit the wall offensively like you feel the Fred Van Leet absence quite acutely now Tariye since her Finney Smith is barely contributed. Do they have enough shooting? Yadda Yadda Yadda. Like I don't see them upending their team in the middle of this season to make a huge seismic trade now. If they lose in the first round of the playoffs or if the Spurs disappointed the playoffs or whatever, like there will be a new shooter that could emerge for a guy like Janus. But look, I don't, I mean, there's six and five the Bucks are since Janus came back. They're still somehow in 11th. They don't, you know, I just, I think they'll stay afloat well enough. And I don't even know like the needle to thread for them is they have one first round picked a trade now and they accumulate more once the calendar flips past the draft. Is there a way that they can buy, get a real player in without trading that pick? Then you're probably taking in like super duper dead-ish money, but attached to talent. I don't even know who that would be. You know, all the names that have been mentioned for them, Michael Porter, Jr. Zach Levine, John Morrant, and on and on and on with these sort of distressed, big salary players. Is there anyone you, to me, none of those are changing their life as a team. It might feel good in the moment. And I just don't think any of those are like making them a contender. No, true holiday. I'd like that, but they already messed that up. And I say that sort of ingest, Zach, but like this is a team who I would describe as impatient in the 2020s. And I think that's relevant here. They have made move after move after move when a lot of ownership groups or front offices would have just sat back and said, all right, let's take a lump here. Let's get through this. They don't do that. They don't do that. They fire coaches. They make big trades. So I think their character on the market is naturally one of the more active ones to begin with. So I expect them to do something. I don't like those players you mentioned for them, but I haven't liked a lot of the moves they've made over the last few years, including getting Kyle Kuzma and Damian Lillard at various points. Firing my food and holes or I don't like their LinkedIn page of transactions over the last five years. So I think that's relevant. They've missed on the draft over and over and over again. So they don't have that kind of capital to trade out to get a good player either. So I mean, they just haven't done a good job building a contender around one of the best players in the world. I think you cited those on-off numbers in one of your previous episodes that are just staggering. All you need to know is when Janus is on the court, they profile like a contender. And when he's off the court, they profile like a lottery team. That to me screams, there's just no depth here. That's not a lot of trade pieces then. So that's a long way of saying, I think they'll do something, but I'm not sure I'll endorse whatever they end up landing on. I disagree with you a little bit. They definitely missed in the draft. You can go bullshamp. You can go trading AJ Johnson right away. You can go a bunch of different places with that. But that's like when you're picking in the late 20s or not having picks because you traded them, that's generally what's going to happen. They did win a championship. Like they're super aggressive posture. Got them drew holiday. Got them the first championship in the franchise since in 50 years. I liked the Dames trade. Like I thought it was I understood it. I thought it was smart. I thought it was worth it. It didn't work. I still don't think that means it was a bad trade. It just didn't just didn't work. And it looked very bad when drew holiday. Went to Boston. The Celtics won the title. But I will defend that trade continually. Now, yeah, I don't know who the like Levine is not interesting to me. Jeremy Grant is not super interesting to me with the money. He's got come into him. Morant. Look, everyone, can we settle down when John Moramp plays one good game? And yes, it was like a showcase game. Everyone's watching. It's in London. It's in the afternoon. All the international celebrity players are there. And he looks great. They both raised the magic in the second game. He finally dames to play. Like I did enjoy like the hourly updates. He's trending toward playing. He's probably going to play. It looks like he's going to play. He's officially going to play. Yay. And he has an awesome game. It makes all his three. He gets to the rim. He defended. He like followed the game plan. Defensively, he was totally engaged. And there's all this like, well, now his trade values is going up. It's going up by the day. He's like, can I see it for a week before I start saying he's got like, I have not, I don't know if you have, I have not found a team that has definitively said to me, we're definitely, we're definitely trying to get John Moramp. Like I just, and I have not heard anything since one good game happened. I'd like to see like, forget a month. I'm not even asking for a month. Can we have four games in a row like this before we start talking about his trade value is going up? I haven't heard anybody and I don't think there is one. Again, one of the big characters here is that is what? The CBA makes these in-season trades very difficult, particularly with these large salary blocks. And that's if nothing, John Moramp and Janis are those. So I think one of the ways you can take a shortcut to prognosticating what's about to happen here in two weeks is just like, whatever the opposite of greasing the wheels of the trade machine is is what the current CBA has done. I don't know if that's pouring sugar in the gasoline tank of the trade machine. But I don't see the John Moramp market. A, on the court, he's a question mark, particularly on defense and availability-wise. Does he make your team better? He's one of the worst jump shooters in the league recently. And then of course, all the off the court risk too. So you don't see a lot of teams signing up for that. I mean, I think he could be a great player in this league. I don't think you'll find many scouts that disagree with that. It's just the amount of risk you have to absorb to take it on. It is too much for a lot of these teams to bear. So when it comes to the Memphis trade market, it's a crazy saga. You didn't even mention the weird, like, Zabruder film they were showing of him having the on-court interaction in Berlin the day before, like getting into it with a teammate. Like, this is just the John Moramp experience right now. It's a much, it's the days of our lives version of NBA basketball. And I'm sick of it for a player who frankly is one of my favorite ones to watch when he does play like he did in London. Long story short, I don't think there's a market there for various reasons. And I completely agree with you. Like, I was a John Moramp true believer three, four years ago. Like, this guy looked, we were at, I have never particularly enjoyed the face of the league conversation. But he was in that conversation. Whether you liked it or not. And he just seemed like a galvanizing force, a guy who inspired his teammates to play harder, to play with a certain, like, snarling tenacity and bravado almost above their station in the league. But like, do you want a young team to have? And then it's all gone sideways. I've already gone through all the teams who theoretically make sense for him. If there's no offer of any, like, it's been reported that Zach Clamon and the Grizzlies want young players and draft capital, I don't see that being available to them unless he goes on a run like this for a month. Or if we don't even have a month, we have two weeks. And if that's the case, like, I wouldn't put a past the Grizzlies to just be like, we're keeping you. And by the way, they're not bad. But he actually plays, they're 18 and 23. They're now a half game out of the play in. I don't exactly know what they want out of this season. If they want another high-ish draft pick, they will certainly indicate that by their actions, just as the jazz are doing right now. We're going to protect it first round pick. They traded a bunch of the stuff they got for more landau for Bain for Cedric Coward, which is going to be a very good trade. He's awesome. But it's not like they're super duper stocked with, like, blue, blue, blue chip draft picks and swaps. They have a couple of attractive swaps. But they're like, they looked awesome in that one game against Orlando. They look pretty good in the first game in that Orlando caught them. If they have job playing like that, Jaren Jackson Jr. has, I think, underrated and having a solid year and definitely a solid couple of weeks. I mean, he ate Bain Carroll's lunch in those two games abroad. And they were playing them at the five more in the second game. That's like a powerful alignment for them. They have a deep team, despite the fact that Pippin Jr. hasn't played this year, Tydromas has played this year, Brandon Clark has barely played this year. They're not bad. And so I could see that climbing like, look, if we got nothing for you, too bad. You've lost the power struggle with the coach. We're backing the coach. You're here. We're not trading you play. I'll tell you this. So I get a lot of teams asking me about Jaren Jackson Jr. And like that is, there's always three or four guys who become unexpectedly. I'm not even saying I'm not saying he's available, but just stuff comes up. And I have teams asking me about him. I saw Tim McMan on the hoop collective with Wendy and Bonta. I'm said, he checked in and Jaren Jackson Jr. doesn't, I think the way he put it was. He doesn't want out of Memphis. He would just like to know what the plan is. I've heard something similar in the last 24, 48 hours. I think he's fine. Staying there. I also don't think he would like fight tooth and nail against the trade to a better Marco He's of team. He is owed 50 plus million dollars over the next four seasons after this one. That's a lot. But man, when they play him at center, he's, I think the rebounding is really, it's a problem. He's not a great rebounder. He's averaging 19 a game, 48% shooting. His three ball is up to 37%. Opponents are only shooting like 52% at the rim against him. His defense looks like it's back to where it was almost when he won defense player of the year. You put him at center or you put him in alignments when everyone around him could shoot whatever the alignments are. He's a pretty goddamn powerful player. Teams are sniffing around. I don't, I think the salary might be prohibitive, but I'm just I'm eyeing it. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, he's more compelling as a piece in many ways than John Moranis, right? For a quasi contender to talk themselves into a stretchy big man who can protect the room and play well next to other biggs, which I always say with him. He was at his best when Stephen Adams was there clogging up the middle and he was able to sort of come and help side like Serge Abokhan just destroy people with block shots. But he has a very sort of attractive upside. The other thing I'll say is a lot of people are comparing this to the Trey Young situation with John Moran. The Hawks had ample evidence that their basketball team was a lot better on the floor without Trey Young. He's playing great for the Wizards though. He's really, really changed their team and make he's making life easier for all their supporting players. Their young players getting easier shots. He's passing. He's playing great. Oh, yeah. Just one of these many cases of that around the league of superstars playing. But look, dude, the thing as I get older that I really appreciate, Zach, and M. M. Fiss actually I remember I wrote for Grantland something about the Rudy Gay trade and back in the day. And Chris Wallace called me the next day. He was like, you can't, what you don't understand what you're talking about. It turns out I didn't. But there is an ownership in a ticket selling and a popcorn selling part of this business still Jersey sales, the John Moran and Yannis onto Tacumpo really represent for the cities of Memphis and Milwaukee. And Chris Vernon just did Chris Vernon just body snatch you? Are you Chris? Is that you Chris? No, dude. Look, I think there's basketball reasons and I love Chris Vernon and he I love that he's with Jot till the end. I love that about him. I love his target story about Sandra Coward. But dude, I think there's something really interesting about the business of basketball that gets overlooked here in the small markets. There is no next John Moran coming to Memphis. That's a miracle when you get a player like that in Memphis, Tennessee. Yannis onto Tacumpo. It's a miracle you get a player like that in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Those guys don't take their talents to those markets very often and you need the draft to get them. So to get off of one of those guys is a business decision as much as a basketball decision. And I think that's relevant here too. So if it's coming down to we want $0.25 on the dollar for John Moran versus, hey, we'll continue to sell jerseys and tickets and keep the fans happy because John Moran remains very popular in Memphis in a way that say, Tray Young wasn't at the end in Atlanta. So I think that's really relevant here too, Zach. Now he may not want to play for 12 months, Eselo. Let me, I mean, I don't think he does. I think he's made that pretty clear despite pointing to the Grizzlies tattoo on his back and saying, I'm a loyal guy, et cetera. I don't really, I think that relationship is not good. The team is clearly by announcing to the world through media that they are open for business on John Moran has said to the world, has said to John, the coach ain't going anywhere. And so John, John played really well in London. If he plays like the fear would be he's going to be disengaged the way he was in that Lakers game that was like a flashball moment earlier in the air where he just wasn't doing anything. He was unhappy. That was the game. He's a little called him out in the locker room afterward and all one side was from there. The player I saw in London was engaged on both ends of the floor and playing the way he wanted him to. Now, a skeptic would say, maybe he's engaged because he knows they can't trade me unless I increase my trade value between now and February 5th to the point that a team will actually give them an offer that they'll act on. What happens if he's still on the team after February 5th? Do we see that John that was in London? I don't know. But if we do, it's a good team. It's a good team that's totally fine kicking the can into the offseason. Yeah, I think so. And look, his seal, nobody's ever doubted this guy's sealing, man. He's like a Tirees Maxi Donovan Mitchell, one of these guards, the can score 40, make big plays when other players can't and in clutch moments, get into the pain at will, finish with dunks and floaters. Nobody's questioning that. It's the ultimate NBA cliche with this guy is the best ability is availability. Are we getting that? And for one reason or another, he's just not like and if you look at his last calendar year or two years in that uniform, it's the exception, not the rule that we get that game that we got in London. A previous example, a lot of people talk about it was great against Philadelphia earlier this year. Look like the best player in a big close game. It's like, damn, that guy can do that. Yeah, there were two and a half weeks between that two points, right? That's your point, right? It's like, let's not look at the two games. Let's look at the other, what do we halfway through? Let's look at the other 40, because that's really what we're getting and all the off court shit, by the way too, is there's not a lot of general managers that want to invite that kind of headache into their lives, into their careers. And so I think there's just a really tepid market for John Morant. And by the way, back to take it all the way back to Janice, I have no hard until that the bucks are even interested in John Morant. I just have them on the list because of the desperation factor. That's right. Any and their flexibility under the tax for any big money semi-distressed, maybe even injured in Anthony Davis's case, star level player that they could look to Janice and say, hey, look, we tried like this is a big, this is a multi-time all-star guy. It's why the clippers have always been on my like just theoretically park the Anthony's. I don't think Anthony Davis is a great fit there. I don't think that's where they're looking, but desperation makes people do crazy things. But I have no hard until that the bucks are actually interested in John Morant. His lack of jump shooting isn't a great fit with Janice. We've seen Janice plus undersized point guard not work as well as they expected it to. And those undersized point guards are at least they where elite jumpshooters, whereas Jaws not. I did find interesting history that Kevin Porter Jr. came off the bench for the bucks by the way after having after hearing Doc Rivers and bucks higher ups all years say publicly like, well, you know, we got to wait to judge our team before we until we see KPJ and Janice play a whole bunch of games together. Now KPJ is coming off the bench and that naturally minimizes his minutes with Janice a little bit. But look, the bottom line is this. The honest right now, I don't think is available. I don't think the bucks are entertaining it at all. Only one person has the power to actually change that. And even so, there are a number of teams that are like, we're not going to make a small incremental move this season. If it costs us the ability to chase Janice down the line. I think Miami's in that group. Atlanta may be in that group. Yeah. The Lakers are in that group. The Warriors are in that group. And that brings us to Janice's preferred trade destination according to Shams, Terania over the summer. The New York knickerbockers. Holy smokes. A toxic atmosphere at the garden last night is they got run off the court. Carl Towns who put up the best counting stats on the team got booed off the floor after the fans had seen enough of him just lurching around every cat drive is just arms are going here is kicking people in the nuts. He's falling over. It's like, wow, wow, I've never seen someone so athletic. Look so lurchy people in the bowels of the arena. Well, not say who are what types of people. We were doing impressions of cat drives after the game last night. And each of us was more ridiculous than the next. The nicks are now two and nine in their last 11 games. Yeah. They are 25 and 18 for the season, which remarkably God bless the east. They are still third in the east. Now they are two games in the lost column out of seventh in the east in that two and 11 stretch. Now Mr Goldsbury, Jill and Bronson, Mr Couple games, Josh Hart, Mr Few games, Mitchell Robinson has always missed a few games. They have an in season tournament hangover. I guess there's all sorts of ways to explain this away. They are 25th in offense in that stretch and 28th in defense. They are the kings for one eighth of the NBA season. They have been the Sacramento kings. They are getting destroyed at the foul line. They don't get to the line on offense and they're fouling the hell out of everybody. And they're starting lineup for the season now. This Bally Hood high priced bridges, hard Bronson and an OB towns. Would you care to guess their total point differential of that lineup while on the floor for the season to date? No, but I would say this before I guess I will guess. They were great last year, right? This is one of the best line ups of the year. Until the playoffs. But that group of five, which is I think where this conversation is going to go, Zach, they should have a very positive, very positive point differential. And they did for the first 15 to 20 games of the season. It is now after what did I say 43 games? That lineup total plus minus for the season a flat zero after 43 games. That's it. The kill bridges has not scored 20 points in a game. Hey, sorry, I'm sorry, the kill bridges, five first rompics has scored 20 points in a game once since December 23rd. Once in a lot, he was absolutely invisible last night at Madison Square Garden. And the town's thing, look, I left towns off my all star team and we're going to pick revised all star picks because I'm sorry, Derek White. I made you a fun 12th all star pick. It was fun. It was great. You haven't made a shot since then. You're off my team. I love you, but I can't put you on. I'm not putting towns on. I'm sorry. Like if you're getting booed off the floor by your own fans, if there's a constant sort of like existential dilemma about, is he that helpful? How helpful is he? Is he a four? Is he a five? Why is the cat Mitch thing not working? He's not shooting that great this year. He's missing a lot of open threes. The turnovers are up and just each one uglier than the next. And his defense is what it is. And that was always going to be the fatal flaw of this team. They're down to 18th and defense for this 19th rather in defense for the season amid this stretch. Look, they're better than this. They were my pick to make the finals before the season. The team that I saw last night was a broken, discombobulated, fractured team. That was a now you shooting luck. If both teams last night shoot their normal percentages, the maps are winning that game by 12 or 15 points. That's still a fucking problem for the nicks. They looked awful. I don't know, man. What's going on? What are you seeing? I'm seeing a lot, but I want to zero in on last night because I watched that game. I had just done a big piece on Cooper. So I've been following Cooper and it's big night for him. A rookie going MSG like that. I always love to see that, right? So I was always going to watch that game. MLK day, but dude, it was a disaster. And I think if we really zoom into what you watched in person, I watched on NBC last night, we saw I mean, the stat that jumped out to me, man, is 27 to two and fast break points in the first half. This five man lineup that you brought up, look, you can cut numbers any way you want. And I spent a long time in the last 24 hours going through nicks to try to explain this. What is going on? What is the actual problem here? And I didn't find anything in part because I think it's these dudes don't give a shit right now. That's the best explanation I have. 27 to two and fast break points against the Dallas Mavericks. One of the worst offenses in the NBA just max Christy open, open, open, open, just punishing you. Yeah, they had shooting luck, but they they they they taunted they they taunted the gods by giving these open looks to guys. And this league, you're going to get punished for that, dude. The thing I wanted to say is I know you were there, but if you watch like this, the sequence at the end of the first half on NBC as the half wraps up the buzzer sound spiky, walks over to Reggie Miller at the table and just stairs like to spawn them at Reggie Miller, they cut to the NBC half time crew, which is great, by the way, team acts as hey, there's some friction in this locker room that has to be ironed out Vince Carter said it's effort. You're losing 27 to two on fast break points. And then team acts as if I don't like you. Why am I playing hard? I might have been Vince. Somebody's got to go. So the half time action. Yeah, the half time reactions on NBC half time show were just like dude, who'd been there Carmella's at the desk, by the way, too. They they saw something that was not analytical. They saw something that was vibes and they saw just a bad bad chemistry there. And again, this five man lineup is supposed to be really good and they aren't right now. Zach, you can look at any numbers you want. But I think it really shows up on defense in part because the effort's not there. Let's take a quick break and then we will reengage the great nixed debate of 2026. I mean, I'll always go back to the there's always these postseason obituary pieces that come out every year. The Brian Curtis calls them the Now You Tell Us pieces. And Fred Katz and James Edwards wrote one for the athletic a great piece at the end of last year talking about citing sources in the locker room. And they said it a lot of things. Well, one of the things that stuck in my brain was discontent among some of the players with cat not executing the game plan on defense, which is one thing that happens. But then also not seeming to under I forget the verbiage days, but something like not understanding like the seriousness of doing that. And I'm just not sure that that I mean, if that's true and I have no reason to believe that story is not true, no one has really refuted it. The defense is still a mess. Now in this stretch, Fred Katz and I talked a couple weeks ago about how the nicks were doing the ugly double of allowing a ton of shots at the basket and a ton of threes, which is just not going to be a recipe for sustained defensive success. In these 11 games where they're two and nine, their shot selection is allowed. There's actually trended in directions you want it to trend more mid-range shots, a little fewer threes, a little fewer shots at the rim. But the more I watch the nicks, the more I'm like, is that kind of shot selection allowed just in them to a team that has towns in the middle of it a lot? And it's not just towns like once, for instance, obviously a liability too. But I think the nicks they have prioritized on their mic brown, protecting the paint at all costs. Now they're not protecting the rim very well, but they're at least, you know, they're scrunched in a lot, which has left a lot of shooters open. It makes for super long closeouts that you're vulnerable to blowbys on the drive. And I think that's probably compensating for like we don't have a lot of faith in what's at the center of our defense. So we've got to overload the center of our defense at the expense of the perimeter. And it's just it just hasn't really worked well enough all season. And their offense is still somehow forth overall in the league. And their recipe for being a real contender was like top three offense, 12-ish defense. For them to be 25th in offense over any stretch of 11, 12 games, despite all the absences and all of that is alarming. Mike Brown said after the game, I was at a press conference because I really wanted to see what he said and what his tone was. He was not happy. He said he was actually happy with their offensive process for a lot of the game, thought they missed a lot of good looks. They did miss a ton of threes. They just looked a little out of sync to me. They still the Brunson cat to man game is still not weaponized to the degree that I think it should be. Last night, that was partly the case because the Mavericks did the thing that like half of Nick's opponents do, which is put a wing, not G Marshall on cat a lot and put their big somewhere else. They actually put Dwight Powell on OG and an OB a lot. And the next pivoted and like, yeah, we'll use OG and an OB in ball screens to attack Dwight Powell. It didn't really work because and an OB is not like a traditional pick and roll guy. That's not what he does. And Brunson, I said this a couple weeks ago, like he's a first, he's an all-star starter. He deserves to be. He's a first team all NBA candidate. He deserved to be. He is not this sort of quick hitting pick and roll distributor that can really unlock that kind of two-man game, which is fine. They have a top five offense. It just, I think it is contributing to whatever chemistry issues are bubbling there. It's contributing to cat every two or three weeks like clockwork being liquid. I'm the one who's got a sacrifice the most. I'm the guy who's sacrificing. And even when they have cat and Mitchell Robinson on the floor at the same time, which is, look, I like for them, those lineups have been kind of meh. And then off the bench, they're just super heavy on small-ish guards, Clarkson, Colec, Shamit, Douce McBride who's having a phenomenal year. He's like got the best net rating on the team among their core players. It feels like there's going to be a move here. And the consensus has always been, they'll turn Yabu Selly and Dadeyay in a couple of second-round picks into like a lower-cost guy because they're right under the second apron who can play more minutes for them. I don't know what they're going to do. Cat has always been sort of the like, if they ever actually trade for Yannis, cat has to be in that trade. I've always said, I don't really know what's in that from Milwaukee. I'm going to just say this, some team with a win-now mandate. And I don't think it's going to be the nicks because their win-now mandate is as loud as can possibly be from the top. I think one of these teams that has had a problematic season, that has had chemistry issues, fit issues, something that is just sort of warm-thin, is going to make a surprising trade at the deadline just to switch up their team a little bit. I don't think it's going to be the nicks, but I'm not, like, if they keep playing like this, I'm not closing the door on anything. And I had people from all over the league texting me last night, different teams, teams that are not interested in this other than just as sort of fans of the league, asking me like, with the nicks average, a salary dump cat, like just to switch up their chemistry, I'm like, I don't think they'd do that. But if they keep playing like this, I don't think any question like that is a ridiculous question. Did you want to talk about the atmosphere in Madison Square Garden a little bit more? Because I think your audience would love to hear the scene because on television, it was bleak. But that place, I was there, what, seven months ago for the Eastern Conference Finals, and it was electric. And now here we are January 19th, 2026, Zach, what did it feel like in that building? Well, first of all, nicks fans are first class awesome fans. Yeah. And to the point that when the nicks cut the lead to like 23 in the second half, the building legitimately came alive, they want this team to win. They want to love this team. They don't want to break it up. And they have faith in it to the point that they were boot off the floor at halftime, boot off the floor at other parts of the game. And every time they had a speck of hope, the crowd really truly came alive. Not in like a token, like, oh, there's some good nature pack of fans over here. Some kids who are cheering because they really want the team to win. The thing came a lot. But I was sitting next to somebody from the Mavericks on press row, a team official. And it was 16 to 4. And I turned to this person and I said, they're going to start booing soon. And they were like a little surprise. Like, really, I'm like, I'm telling you, this this crowd is like ready to turn on this team. And sure enough, the booze came and they came fast. And they came weirdly specifically for towns. And it's it was not great. And the post game atmosphere was not great. Mike Brown was really mad. But I do think you have to step back a little bit and say, it's a lot of talent on this team. The East thinks they're still third. They have had all these mitigating factors that we talked about. But they got it, they got to start playing better fast because we're two weeks away from the trade deadline. And ill time slumps can change things real fast for a team. And here's the last thing I'm going to say. I had Richard Jefferson on last Monday. And I asked him, are we ready to say that the wolves won the catch rate? And he sort of laughed me like, oh, come on. You can't you can't say that. And I said, well, I guess you could argue both teams one. But I think I said something like, I've got the I've got my gavel up. Like I'm ready to render judgment. I'm rendering judgment. The timber wolves won the catch rate. Randall and Deven Chenzoe for cat is a win for the timber wolves. And I wonder if some people I've never had this conversation with anybody from the next to purely me speculating. I wonder if they regret it at all because Deven Chenzoe is really good. And Randall is an all star level player. I think Randall's probably been better than towns this year at almost half the price. I think the wolves won the trade. So I I saw Randall the old nine San Antonio in a marvelous game. Marvelous NBA. Oh, yeah, talk about that game. You were at the end. 55 point game. Yeah. People say, how gold's very complain about the product all the time. You know, too many threes this and that like shut up. You know, well, Saturday night, that's why I'm in. That was the best regular season game I've seen a very long time. Minnesota short handed. Let me give that up. They. On the back to back to back to back against Houston and San Antonio. San Antonio pretty much it full strength. No Devin Bacell. But just a marvelous marvelous basketball game. And Anthony Edwards played one of the finest games of his life. And anybody's seen Anthony go for 30 or 40. He knows it's a treat. Well, man, when he goes for 50 and he gets a swagger going and hitting jump shots and dudes faces and just talking shit, it is electric. And to see Victor Wembenyama not fold in that moment and do the opposite and start making shots with Ant Man down the stretch. It was a ridiculous environment in San Antonio. I told some of my spurs friends. That's the best game I've seen in that gym since I worked there 2017 2018 now. That crowd was going crazy. But yeah, Julius Randall's a great player. Oh, and one other thing I told I promise you I'd wedge this in. By the way, everybody go a basketball reference and look at Victor Wembenyama's page. I have bad news for the rest of the NBA. Victor Wembenyama is officially shooting 40% from three point, the three point line, Zach Low. Victor Wembenyama is a 40% three point shooter. That's crazy. And it's good news for spurs fans. But that said, can we go back to the next? Yeah, of course. I'm not talking to next. Towns might be the problem. Can you have a future level defense with that guy at the center? By the way, I think he looks slow last night. This is one thing I was going to ask you about. He looks like he can't jump as much anymore. He's getting Dwight Powell hitting the nuts 17 different ways on his drives to the rim. I think both you and I are zeroing in on one part of this roster. Okay, his conversation. Okay. I do think Carl Anthony Towns is a magnet for scrutiny. His drives just look lurchy and silly. And he falls all the time and he screams and yells for fowls and he wades his arm around. And he's a minus on defense. And all of that stuff together, he's just sort of like it's not, I wonder, I think he had like 24 and 12 last night in a and led the team and scoring. And he's the one that got booed because it just looks, it's just when it looks bad, it just looks, it looks bad. He had 22 and 18. Five turn hours. That's part of what looks bad. He's throwing the ball over the place, falling down. Like his defense of problem. Absolutely. We all knew it would be a problem. I mentioned Brunson's playmaking is just okay, but he's a star. He's not the problem. McHale Bridges, I mentioned his scoring OGN and OB had nine points last night. Sometimes he's super involved. Sometimes he's not super involved. I wonder how he feels about that by the way. Josh Hart had eight points last night. And he got out Josh Harted by Naju Marshall who came out and nagging. And was like, I'm going to run the ball down your goddamn throats. What are you going to do about it? And the answer was nothing. The bench is hit or miss. They've gotten zero from Yapu Selly the entire year. Mitchell Robinson plays, you know, two out of every four games or whatever it is. Clarkson played two minutes last night. You know, there's like a lot of other problems, but he is a magnet for whatever reason for criticism that is fair and then sort of the volume of it and the focus on him solely becomes I think a little bit unfair. But there's no question. 25 and 18, ninth in net rating, 19th in defense, 2 and 11 in their, two and nine in their last 11 games. This season is officially a disappointment so far for a team whose owner went on the radio and said, not only do we have to make the finals, we should win when we get there is if he's totally unaware of what's going on in the Western Conference and who might be there in the end. I have a crazy stat. So according to Pauli market, the Knicks were big favorites to win the East right after the NBA cup. The better is in that environment had established them as a 30s. They had a 36% chance of coming out of the East. This is an ancient history, Zach. This is about three or four weeks ago. They're down to 19% on that platform to come out of the East behind now the Boston Celtics and the Detroit Pistons. So that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the team that was clearly the favorite in Vegas celebrating on that platform, the NBA cup. Four weeks later, they're the third ranked team in the Eastern Conference according to a lot of betters to come out of the East. That's a pretty remarkable four week slide, three week slide, whatever since Marty Supreme came out if you want to say it that way. Wow, you're laying it at the feet of Shalame. Oh, yeah, he's in that, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, I could have done stiller there, but I feel like Shalame had the movie come out around that time. So, but no jokes, the Knicks are still one of the more, if not the most talented team in the Eastern Conference. But dude, look at their defense, look at their effort, look at what the what the old heads at the desk said about them last night. Do they give a shit enough to do what they need to do on defense to win the Eastern Conference? Well, it also it impacts the openness of the East impacts some of my other big trade questions, which are going to bounce rapid fire around some of these. We've done the honest stuff already. Detroit as long stood to me as one of the more fascinating teams at the Trade Deadline because they have big salaries that are, I don't want to say expendable, but easily movable and you could justify moving them for better players pretty easily. All their draft assets, all that stuff. And they clearly do not have enough shooting to like really, really compete for a championship, which if you're 31 and 10, I don't really care how bad your conferences or how ahead of schedule you are with your own team. If you're, if you have a 750 winning percentage, you should be competing for a championship. And they clearly need a dose of shooting and offensive creativity and whether it's shooting plus a secondary ball handler to take pressure off Cade, whatever it is. And you know, Markin and was the fantasy trade for them by me, by Michael Peanup by a million other people for a long time. It appears the jazz are just not going to entertain that. And we've talked about that. And then we've mentioned other names, Michael Portard Jr. trainer, for the third blah blah. And everyone around the league has told me all along. Most almost everyone I talked to expects Detroit to do either to do nothing or to do something small and approach this playoffs, even though they were in the playoffs last year, as sort of a proving ground for let's see what we learn about this nucleus with some pressure on them, with some expectations on them in the postseason hot house and then address it after the season. So maybe a small move, maybe no move. I've always been the whole season I've been on the like, they should go for it. The East is there for the taking. If they're just not good enough to win the finals if they actually get there. I'm starting to wonder if the East is so bad and they're so good as presently constituted that doing nothing is actually or doing something small is actually the right course of action for them because they can clearly make the finals as is. They have no hope against a healthy thunder, healthy nuggets, healthy spurs, whatever. I mean, I think they'd against the spurs. I think they'd compete because they're just so tough and so physical and their defense is so good. But like they're 31 and 10 and they can absolutely make the finals as is. Maybe they'll end up doing nothing and just sort of saving their chips for something down the line. Yeah. If they make a move, they need a second score and a shooter. Somebody like in a defensive playoff series where a team just really points to all their weapons at this pick and roll between Cade and Durran and slows it down. Like who's the ball flying to there and who's going to make that play because as much as I like to buy his hair as they're dunking Robinson, I just don't think those guys are going to make huge plays and score like 26 in a game five or something like that. So I could see them shopping around to try to get one of these players, maybe a Jeremy Grant or an MPJ even just some decent former piston Jeremy. That's right. But I could see them trying to get it because they're leading three points shooter right now and this is clear weakness for their offense and this is a defensive juggernaut. But if they did anything that's where I'd see it. The second score, the three point shooter, who can they get if they get somebody on a good bargain? I could see him doing it. I could also just see him fall in your logic. Hey, man, where bad ass is where the where the toughest team in this thing where the best defense in the east and that's going to be our brand going through the playoffs come and take it come and beat our defense. This is our group. But yeah, I think the pistons deserve more attention than they're getting for being a real threat to come out of the Eastern Conference. I'm glad we're talking about them. Well, they're going to be the number one seed because there are six games up on that too. So they're going to have that. Yeah. What's like logic? This is why I'm still I still, if you actually forced me to make a yes or no call, are they going to make a trade or stand pat? I think they're going to I would say make a trade. I don't think it's going to be a big trade. But there's just too many logical things pointing in the direction of even a small upgrade to wit to buy his hair. This is on a $26 million expiring contract. He's a cultural centerpiece for them. He is not played all that much or all that well this season. Duncan Robinson is their best outside shooter. Certain matchups are going to be problematic for him in the postseason. Carouselvert has largely been disappointing. J and Ivy feels like a little bit of both a loss soul and a semi attractive trade ship to a team that might be able to rehabilitate him needs an extra ball handler whatever. And they just have a lot of guys like Sassar is not playing at all. Reads not playing at all. Clintman's not playing at all. Like there's someone else I'm forgetting that sort of a Jenkins on a two way is barely playing now. They just feel right for something but they are absolutely correct to say why do we need to do anything? We can make the finals and just use it as a learning experience. Boston is another one. All the rumblings around the league is that Boston is now going to buy. And I don't know how that works. I don't know if they can buy and cut their tax bill at the same time. The obvious place for them to buy would be upfront where they could use another legit front court player. But this team is clearly really good. Sam Housers made about 400 three pointers in the last three games. Jalen Brown is having a majestic season. Tatum I think is going to come back at some point. And they have a lot of assets to play with. The question is can they buy and cut money and can they buy? Does that involve him for any Simon's going out? Because he's kind of quietly in the last month after clearly not being super trusted by Mizzula to be a heavy minute-spark of their rotation. He's settled into like a real bench spark plug rule for them and closed some games too. Yeah, he's a great player. And to me they're the most interesting team. Because I didn't think any of us thought they'd be here. And right now they are among the favorites to come out of the east without Jason Tatum. They have a clear need upfront in my opinion. Just on the glass again we talk about playoff matchups as good as Kada and Garza can be like the that's that's a weakness for them. And I can't be overstated. Those are the only two traditional big men in their rotation. Those two guys that's it. They have other guys that play power forward like Hugo Gonzalez and even Houser Jalen Brown. But like they have two big guys to play and those are them. And I think they could upgrade. And I've mentioned it I think with Bill, but like a Gafford or type player like that on a team that's is trying to shed salary. And there are going to be sort of plug and play bigs out there. And dude, I think Boston being a buyer is just it makes a lot of sense. And I see I could see a path for them to get very good. They're already very good. Even better if they just bolster that front court a little bit, Zach. You mentioned Gafford in this job, my memory. There's been a lot of posturing from the Mavericks and I every it's everything is posturing now. Yeah. That you know, I think it's been in the media a little bit like Patrick Dumont, you know, he wants to see Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving and Cooper Flag all together. And if we don't get a good offer for Anthony Davis, we'll just hold on to him. I think there's probably some truth to that. And I don't know that there's a good offer for Anthony Davis currently injured on a somewhat vague timetable that would really wet their appetite. So I think there's some truth to that. But I do think the Mavericks, if they had their druthers would just wipe their hands of the whole Luka trade as soon as possible. Get off Anthony Davis for whatever value they can get. Get off a Gafford for whatever value they can get. And really, I think that would be their preferred outcome. Now they're not going to do it for your dead money and nothing else. I think they'd like like if they could trade them, I'm just making this up. If they could trade them to Toronto and they'd have to take Pertle and whatever bear it, whatever salary filler you want, although bear it to me is too good to just be salary filler. And a pick or two, like you've got to give us picks because Pertle's contract goes on for 7,000 years. I think they would probably do something like that. Yeah. But I don't know that that deal exists, but that's just my Dallas, my Dallas gut feeling at this point. And the other thing I've mentioned on Bill show too, but just Dallas having a complete lack of a clear leader in there, in their front office right now, having co-interim GMs, having Jason Kid reportedly being one of the more important voices in the organization. Then you have Mark Cuban back in the fold and to Mont and his bill pointed out probably the most gun shy organization right now with trades after looking their wounds for the last 11 months since trading Luca Donchic. So, yeah, Dallas is a hard hard one to figure out too, Zach, just because the lack of sort of, there's no clear architect making a blueprint here. I don't know who's in charge of that blueprint. Let alone making the calls and making the make in the call to make a deal with somebody as big as Anthony Davis, let alone other players, PJ Washington, Daniel Gafford, other pieces that other teams could see being very useful down the stretch. For that reason, I'm out on the Dallas map. Being very active at the trade deadline, Zach. I like it. I don't watch Shark Tank anymore, but I had a Shark Tank phase. And Kevin O'Leary was the meanest one. Coast star of Marty Supreme, by the way, Mr. Wonderful. But the most entertaining was always when someone really just pissed off Mark. Like someone said something in their pitch that he just found as a business person or a human offensive and annoying. And he would just be like, you suck. Here are all the reasons you suck. And now you want to hear from you anymore. Speaking of suck, we should touch briefly on the Lakers who are down to six in the West with the negative point differential. Reeves has been hurt. And it's very clear that they need reefs to just sort of he just brings a vigor and a pace to their team that without him, they are just stuck in mud. I mean, defensively, they're awful transition. They're awful rebounding. They're awful. There's minimal effort being made across the board. Offensively, they're slow. They're turning the ball over, which is not a thing that Luca teams normally do. His turnovers have been sort of uncharacteristically wonky. He and LeBron have like negative chemistry together right now on offense. They don't, it just, it's just, it just isn't working. And it'll work better when Reeves comes back. And everyone is curious of like, what are the Lakers going to do? I bet the Lakers either do nothing or do something small that does not cost them a first round pick. So if they can steal a Keon Ellis for two seconds or something, I could see that because they're in a very clear spot of we have one pick to trade right now. Could we get Andrew Wiggins maybe, could we get a Deandre Hunter who I think is, I don't know if he's available available, but what Jalen Tyson has done in Cleveland has really changed the game and Deandre Hunter has not had a good season. Yeah, maybe we could, we could get into those conversations if they're happening. Does that do anything for us? Does it make us contenders? Probably not. And in the off season, we can trade three first round picks. Our cap sheet clears up assuming even if we resign Reeves, which I think they would like to do better not low ball. If they low ball, it's going to get interesting. I'll tell you that. And just sort of recalibrate then, I think that's, and just then LeBron either retires or is I don't think coming back to the Lakers at least on an expensive deal. I will say I have the Lakers, just I'm flagging this Lakers play at Cleveland on January 28th. It's coming up soon. I'm flagging that. It's want to see what his what his comments are around that game. That's interesting. But I just, I, they're really a top like for a team that has this much star talent. They were in the top five of my league pass rankings with Mahoney. They're really not fun to watch at all. It's like a slog. It's not the showtime Lakers. It's the complaint time Lakers, I think. I don't know how you would say it. But yeah, I don't love watching them. And I think they're sort of in purgatory that we should have a group of teams that are just like, let's get to the off season and really see what's going on here. They would be on that list because yeah, they're on two timelines. They have no defense. They've very little front court talent, Aiden, not really Jackson Hayes. You know, they need to build this team around Luca. And I'd also bring up the fact that they've recently had ownership transition and they're sort of in leadership purgatory here too. Would the new ownership group want to make big changes or let the architect Rob Blink could make big changes at this exact moment to try to win now? I think it's fair to ask that question. I think if I were there, I would say, let's just get through this year. This is not a terrible team. J.J. is going to have a heart attack probably by game 70. But we're going to get through this and really use our off season. By the way, remain a great free agent destination unlike any other team in the NBA. They have access to a team building tool in the off season that not many teams have. I just can't see them making a big move this season in season sack. My last Lakers observation. The Luca pick and roll is always going to be a good play for them. Yeah. The chemistry around it is not right, not like the way it was in Dallas. It's not as smooth. The options aren't as clear. Some of his trademark passes are happening less frequently. It's slow. It's slaggy. I think some of their best offense comes when either he or LeBron go at the smallest guy or any other team. So against Toronto, which they won that game, eight and shot 10 for 10, they ran a lot of cross screens and screening action to get quickly on to Luca. And I like their offense better when they work inside out like that using their spare recipe is like we're big. I mean, they're like preposterously big and slow. Some of these line ups. They're like drew Timmy's involved ball of a sudden. Let's just be big and be slow and play bully ball inside out. Even if that means we have to use Marcus smart more to like trigger the offense because the small guy is on him. Now the small guy will be on a reason when he comes back. That's my last observation. Couple of the rapid fire things. I'm I'm I'm taking a little ball off the table if I'm Charlotte. I want to see this through. I've always been one of the rare Lamello believers. Now every time I get excited, he does something crazy. And I'm like, oh my god. Did you see that they're lost to the Pacers a couple weeks ago? Yeah. So they're up three with a minute and five seconds left at home. They win a jump ball. Eric Collins loses his mind that they want to jump ball. That's all. Hortis won the jump ball. Lamello streaks up the court again up three with a minute left. Just fucking calm down. Streaks up the left side of the court. Tosses with three seconds of elapsed. Tosses an alieupe to Musa Diabate who is covered. The alieupe is five feet to the left. Turn over. The Charlotte broadcast and every broadcast is a little bit of a cheerleading broadcast. Eric Collins and Del Curry goes silent for like six seconds. They could not believe the lack of judgment. The lack of time, score, situational judgment that their franchise point guard has shown in a game they're up by three in. And then Del Curry after like five seconds of silence just goes, oh my. And they lose the game. I'm still keeping the here's the stat of the day. You ready? Yeah. Now part of this is they beat you taught by five thousand points last week. They are now plus sixty three in two hundred and ninety four minutes with Miller who's coming along and Lamello and Kinniple on the floor. Yeah. And Miller is starting to do the thing that he has to do which is if they want to optimize these pairings of perimeter guys and two man games and staggered screens and Spain action. Can he bully smaller guys a little bit and can he blow by bigger guys a little bit? He's like the switch attacker and he's been doing that a little bit more lately lately. Musa Diabate is awesome. I love that dude. I think he's probably not a starter, but he's a really useful player. I like what I'm seeing out of Charlotte. They're total point differential for the season is exactly zero despite their 16 and 27 record. I'm taking them off the table. Kirk goes very well. You're not getting Lamello ball for me unless you give me some real stuff. I'm certainly if you give me like a lot of stuff, I'll think about about it. But I'm not dumping him just to dump him and reset the franchise up. I'm not doing it. I'm sending him to Golden State. Maybe that's how this should end. Get Stefan Curry back in Charlotte. Don't aggregate me. That's the dumbest idea of the day. But Charlotte, the start of the day for me with the Charlotte Hornets is what? You probably know what I'm about to say. They have the best offense in the NBA over the last 15 games. They are surging on offense to your point. We've always known that Lamello ball had more talent in his little finger offensively than just about any other player in this league. But Brandon Miller and Con Canippell play great together. I talked to one of their assistant coaches a couple of weeks ago and they were just raving about how smart those guys are together and how they feel like they have a real strong offensive identity. Now Charles Lee's wanted to make this team sort of the JV Celtics with the five out tons of threes approach for years. They just didn't have the talent. Well, Brandon Miller and Con Canippell are the talent. And I think it's starting to click. They're averaging 124.3 per 100. Again, number one in the NBA by leaps and bounds over the last 15 games. And as you like to say, that's more than a fifth or a sixth of the NBA season, somewhere in there. And that's good. That's an identities act. And then we talk about the vacuum in the Eastern Conference. Well, I think Charlotte, Charlotte's on to something here. And offensive identity like Detroit might be the defensive jug or not. Well, this could be the future offensive jug or not led by Lamello, Coniple and Brandon Miller. A couple of other rapid fire things. I'm not by the way, Lamello plus four partner possessions with Lamello on the floor. Minus three per 100 possessions with the Mellon to bench offense is 10 points better with him on the floor. Say what you will. He is an engine of efficient offense and has been his enthrower. I'm you know what I'm tired of Kirk Gold's very what he's tired of. Larry Markin in his legitimately ill. He's under the weather right now from whatever legitimately under the weather. This is the fourth year for him in Utah. And every single one of those years has either been a second half. We're pulling the plug to try to help our draft pick. And we fucked up the first half by being too good. Or we're just pulling the plug from day one or day game 20. Like this is a when does he just this is like a waste of a great player. They's not like a legendary player. There's one time all sorry in the east. He'd probably be a three time all star by now. But he's in the west. And he had his chances in the east that didn't work. I just like they said they weren't going to do this right like they had a whole big thing about where I was not going to see what we saw last year. And now everyone is sick and injured in every game. A particularly when they're playing anybody in their range. I understand they're only doing what the NBA incentive structure says they should do. Yeah. I just like it's been a long time. They are decent with Larry Markins on the floor. Flat out decent. It's been a long time since say again. Two decent. Well, it's been a long time since we've seen a player in his prime. We have his have so many seasons of his prime wasted like this. I'm getting tired of it. Though this is the right take. And I think the NBA has a real issue with some of the players, some of the time, just not playing basketball games. And I am not the first one to say that. But Markin, it might be the face of this. And even if you're saying, hey, this right now what we're seeing right now isn't isn't a good example of that effect. It has been too long like this guy's completely almost a huge chunk of his prime has been sips spent in a basketball environment. It's not trying its best to win basketball games. That's that's not great. And I should say there's only one team with a better offense in the last 15 games than the Charlotte Hornet Sacklow. It's whoever's playing the Utah Jazz. This defense is giving up more points per possession than any of the great offenses are scoring. And I watched a little bit of their Spurs game on MLK day. And it's just it's really easy to score on these guys. They just don't they don't have the best interest of their fan base at least this year. And it doesn't look like they're trying to win basketball games. I think that's called tanking. They're going to try next year, right? They're going to keep this pick. Come hell or high water that they'll they're going to have cap space. They're going to have Markin and they're going to have Kessler back who's an anchor of their defense and was playing awesome for the year. And they're going to use their cap space on somebody good. And they're going to come out and say, we'll be the sons. We'll be we'll be a competitive good team. That's the selling point for our marketing. That may well be like I that's absolutely plausible. Like the Kianti Georgia's made a huge leap. Like they have the ingredients of a team that could be decent next year. I'm just it just sucks that this guy's had to wait like this. Yeah. For so I mean, he made choices too. He signed an extension that was time to make them untradable last year. Although I get it. Two other rapid fire things. New Orleans Pelicans, I forgot to make fun of them last week for Chris Haynes tweet being like, oh, they're not trading anybody. They're closed for business a month before the trade deadline. Look, anytime you're 10 and 35, you just got a stamp hat. You can you can't. Yeah. Don't don't take any calls. Don't consider anything. Everything's going great. And injuries. Jay dubs out for a couple weeks with the thunder. Why is it happening again? This is out a little bit with this knee. I don't know what I think they used inflammation or irritation or something. I hope it's nothing serious. Don't sleep on Stephen Adams. Spray nankle. And he said to me this time he's been sensational. And Garland out a couple weeks with another foot injury. It's a different foot. And I don't again, I mentioned before these win-now teams, particularly in the east that are just seem to be stuck in a series of unfavorable patterns. One of them will do something surprising either at the trade deadline or in the off season. Cleveland is, I think again, more off season because they are so win-now we won 64 games. And Orlando is the other one where Franz just came back. Sugs has hurt. They've barely been able to see their team. They're full team. You know, they're 23 and 19. They're fine. They're sixth. I'm just, you know, they have Isaac's $15 million expiring contract. When Del Carter's juniors only so, so fitted center of the offense is in like I'm just, I'm keeping an eye at it. What's your CAHPS con level? I told your listeners next time I was on your show, I would ask you what level of CAHPS con we're on. We're on CAHPS con three. We're going to stabilize it three because Jalen Tyson is a real guy. Who may just be there starting three at this point because Shrussis is coming back whenever he comes back. Hunter is coming off the bench. That situation seems a little fraught. So where CAHPS con three, if we were in the West with this record and this team performing like this, we'd be at CAHPS con two. Maybe a boy at CAHPS con three. Can we take a very quick break and react to the All Star selections? All right, the All Star starters were released last night. I said, you can pick your reserves. Let's start in the east. Cade, Brunson, Brown, Maxi, Yannis. There were six candidates. Donovan Mitchell is the odd man out. He's going to make the team who cares. Do you have any? Do you have your reserves ready for the east? I do. Let's start with just go. I start with Donovan Mitchell who I actually thought had a really good case to be a starter. And then there's a giant cap. So I think for me, it came down to Brunson or Mitchell for that last spot as a starter. I went Mitchell. I'm not mad at Brunson getting that slot after the NBA cup or whatever you want to say. I think you have to put Kat, Jaylen Johnson in there. Those are pretty easy, Zach. And then it starts to get pretty sticky for me. But I go brand and anglerum, Norman Powell for the Miami rep MPJ. I think you have to put it in there. And then I had one player from our land at which one do you think I chose? Stuffed-imagine dragon. Oh, I mean, yeah, I took France. That's just a games played issue for me. He's been better than Palo and it's been pretty demonstrable. Yeah, then the nerds definitely come down on on team fronds there. That does not nerds. He's just been a little ball edge case didn't make it see. I come the team's not winning enough. But yeah, I hear I revised my picks because you know what? I have a right to revise my picks after time has passed and now the starters are picked. So now I get to do it again. Donovan Mitchell, Scotty Barnes. Did you not have Scotty Barnes? I took anglerum over Barnes, but I can I can I can I can listen to your case. I'll fight you on that. That's fine. Donovan Mitchell, Scotty Barnes, Jaylen Johnson, Michael Porter, Jr. Jaylen Durin, Norm Powell, keeping the heat offensive float by himself. And then my twelfth spot, I kind of I had my pony on a couple weeks ago and I took Derek White who was on a heater at that point. I just want to give him a career. She's been award for being awesome. And since then he's been in a hellacious shooting slump. I've got to move him out. But everyone else leaves me cold. The magic guys, bam, I love bam. I've never would argue against bam being on an all-star team. He's a winner, but he just has not had a good offensive. No. Other guys we can mention. I'm putting Pascal Siakamon despite the he's played like a legit. He's playing real basketball every single night on both ends of the floor. I'm giving him the honor. Okay, West starters were Luca, Yokech, SGA, Wembee, and Curry. And I think was like the sixth starter there. He's a lock to make it. Who are you're who are you're now it gets a little dicey or who are you seven reserves? Let's just say the Western conversation is a lot harder than the Eastern one. You get to see a lot of really good names here. Jamal Murad is at the top of my list. I think he he it's shocking to me as I've been in all star before. And so let's get that corrected. And then Ant-Man. Those are the two that were like no brainers. Ant-Man, the players thought he was more deserving of Wembee. I disagree. Regardless, Ant-Man's got to be there. He is a classic NBA All-Star. I have two rockets in my reserves, both Shen-Goon and Durant. And then it gets real tough. But I I'm one of the people that says I look at the standings and I'm like man the thunder deserve two All-Stars. So I go chat, chats there. I say the sun's deserving All-Star that's got to be book. And then dude, it's Kauai, Hardner LeBron. And can I can I give you another name? Yeah. Denny Abdi is out for you. He's out for me because I mean look you get to seven real fast here. Do you know? I know. If Denny Abdi what did you just say? You just said something about the Eastern country. The cabs were in the West. You'd be at cabs con one or whatever. Yeah. If Denny Abdi were in the East, you'd be an ulcerer. I'm sorry. This is just the Western conference. I'm not saying I took Kauai Leonard because look I have to do this analytically. Culturally there's going to be a play for LeBron James. But analytically the case is for Kauai Leonard. He's simply been a better basketball player than LeBron James this year. That's a fact. Oh that's not even like that's there's no counter argument to that. Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? So we had six of the seven the same and I had Aunt Durant Shengoon, Jamal Murray. I've had Abdi the whole time and I know their record is around 500 but they're plus with him on the floor and getting shellac to him off the floor. I completely agree with you on Chet Hongren. I saw Bill left him off in favor of Randall. I think I completely disagree with that and I understand that Chet is like a very secondary score whose offense can come and go. He's averaging 18 points a game. He's shooting 58%, 38% on threes, 66% on twos and he has been, if not the best rim protector in the entire league. At least number two behind Wembee who's rim protection is sort of all encompassing. Wembee is like the like I remember when I voted Kauai MVP in 2017. Part of my rationale was always like well defense is half the game and I got pushed back for that that I actually learned from and I think was right that well at the superstar level defense can't really be half the game because a superstar in offense can impact every possession. Whereas I can steer my offense away from Kauai Leonard on defense and there's truth to that. Wembee is like the exception to that rule. There's no steering away from him but Chet has been unbelievable. I just think he has to be in and that left me my last spot. I initially had Kauai who's been sensational when he plays. No problem with that. He's heard again. I'm gonna give it to Booker. Just rock solid both things before. Not shooting as well as I'd hope but does everything well. He's always available. And apologies to all those guys I mentioned plus go bear and Randall go bear has been quietly. Great sensational. I'm both ends of the farmy. He is he's defending about as well as he ever has. He is the king. You know what he's the king of maybe with Wembee staying down. He's like he doesn't jump until he absolutely has to jump and even then if you're an okay guard taking a 12 foot floater he's not gonna jump because the rebound is more important. And by not jumping he stalls everything out because people want him to jump and get out of the way and he doesn't do it. Let's talk about LeBron. I read Dave McMeneman's snippet in the ESPN's All Star reaction lobbying for LeBron to get picked to the All Star game. And I believe you will get picked by the league. I'm actually you know what? There was enough discontent with how he handled All Star last year scratching at the last minute. And there's no certainty yet on whether he's retiring. If there's ever going to be any certainty I don't know. If there were I think Adam Silver would absolutely name him to the team if the coaches don't any might I'm gonna predict he does anyway regardless. But Dave in that piece said something like is LeBron one of the 12 best American players? Yes. Just definitively yes. I think that's just not true anymore. Do you want to just name American players? You get to 12 real fast. Yeah. Go ahead. Cade. I'm just going through All Star roasters right now. That's where I'm starting. Cade, Bronson, Jalen Brown, Maxi, all been better than LeBron this season. LeBron's played 24 games. He's the defense is what you'd expect from a 41 year old. Donovan Mitchell's been better. Scotty Barnes has been better. Jalen Johnson has been better. That's seven. Stefan Curry's been better. Eight. Ants been better. Nine. Durant's been better. Ten. I think probably Booker has been better. That's 11. I think Chats been better. That's 12. We haven't even gotten to Kauai. This is like maximum giving LeBron the benefit of the doubt. Maximum like well if we're talking about for one game, game seven of the finals like maximum we're giving the benefit that we're not even mentioning Kauai, Harden, Reeds, Jimmy Butler, Julius Randall, like Norm Powell, Jaren Jackson Jr. Bam, Jay Dubs been hurt the whole year. Michael Porter Jr. has been outstanding. I don't think it's just, I don't think you can come out and definitively say. First of all, I don't know why 12 matters because we're getting 16 Americans. I don't understand it. But I don't think he's been one of the 12 best American players this year. I actually don't even think that's arguable. Yeah, I don't think it's close. That said, the NBA All Star game needs LeBron James. You should be in the game. Yeah, but let's be honest. Yeah, let's be honest about, right? Merit based, he's not there. He's he's he's a four top four player in Los Angeles in this conversation. Maybe. So dude, it's tough. And I want to give you platform here for your listeners because you texted me a startling stat about all star votes last night. I love the player votes. The players, some take it very seriously and some apparently did not. Yeah, so which of the player voting results did you want to bring up first? I got to I got to get a lot of jumps off the page. Here we go. Why are you setting this up? Why are you setting this up? One of the classic political science quotes of all time is the best argument against democracy is a 30 second conversation with an average voter. Let's let's do let's just to steer clear of you don't get me fired up. Okay. I just enjoyed the so they organized it. Player rank media rank fan rank. I enjoyed that the the players ranked Luca 6th, which was I thought was very interesting in the Western conference voting. Um, Steph was actually two in the Western conference voting and and KD were four and five both over Luca. I found that interesting. And look, the rankings, there's like a bunch of people tied for spots, but it just like shingoon. 30 second among players in player voting. Here are some of the players shingoon is behind. Wait, say it again. 30 second. He's 30 second. Player rank 32. Here's here are some of the players he's behind. Julius Randall 13th fine. Jama rant 27th. Jaden McDaniel's 21st. Dylan Brooks 17th. Stefan Castle 13th. Are this first ballad stuffing here? Not the wrong one. Dante, Deven Genzo 17th. Love Dante. Sure. I mean, just like on and on. What did shingoon do to all these people? I don't know, but that is a stunning result. Shingoon who both of us have clearly in our reserve category, meaning top 12, right? So Christian Brown was 27th. He hasn't played much in like a month and a half. It is. It's a stunning result from the players. But yeah, for those interested, it is a fascinating thing to review these PDFs that summarize where the players had guys ranked, where the fans and where the media had them ranked. Generally speaking, the fans and the media are pretty aligned, but the players can go rogue here and shingoon being that low. What's it? 37. 32. It is. Do you think the players had LeBron 8th, which is higher than he should be based on the season he's had? They had him above Booker, for instance, and above Abdia. I wonder if that indicates that the coaches might actually put him on as a reserve. So Adam Silver doesn't face the still in the book. Kirk Gold's very what else we got from you? What do you want to promote? Well, I just put a big Cooper flag piece out that I'm really happy with. Thanks to my friends at the ringer, we put that out. I think Cooper has played great basketball and Dallas is a very interesting team, but that's just really looking forward to the trade deadline. The stuff we talked about Zach, I think it's going to be a really interesting second half of the NBA season. Kirk Gold's very on pods in writing. Second to none has really revolutionized the way we think and talk and look about it. Look at basketball. Thank you for your time. I do not take it for granted that you sit here and listen to me rant and the rant back at me for this long. Thank you, Zach. That's it for the Zach Low Show on a Tuesday. We will be back later this week as usual with another episode. Thanks to the great Kirk Gold's barrier for lending us his time and his invaluable insight. Thanks to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production. Thanks to you for listening to and or watching the Zach Low Show. We will see you later this week. Thanks to the great Kirk Gold's barrier for lending us his time and his invaluable insight.