When Suffering Becomes Calling – Dylan Mandell, Pastor Joby Martin & Denny Thompson

Built for More Podcast, Denny Thompson, Pastor Joby Martin, joined today by Dylan Mandel. What's going on, man? How you doing? Doing good, man. Thanks for having me. Of course. Of course. I'm glad to have you. Of course. Dylan comes to us by way of TCU right now. Let's go. I love some TCU, man. Is there a better mascot? Orange frogs? I don't know, but it was one of my favorite football games of all time was a TCU game. I was at that game, too. Were you? That was fun. It was pouring rain. You saw Stetson and his greatness? It was awful. Awful. Good Bulldogs team, though. The Bible says that God opposes the proud. Have you ever met a more proud thing than a Texas Christian? That's a fact. I mean, Christians got their own problems, and then a Texas one, boy, they're real proud of themselves. So that was awesome. Yeah, he talked about that we went to dinner last night, and he knew you were going to bring that up. I have to, man. It was the first thing he said. It was. The very first thing he said when you're like, oh, TCU? You're like, oh, yeah, how about that national championship game? I'm like, come on now. Man, a stress-free. People are like, I just want it to be a good game. Not me. I don't need stress. I have a church. So I like those games where it's over at the half. You get in the curtain call, you're seniors. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah, and that was definitely that game. For sure. We talked about last night, he's from California, right? The Bay Area, right? Yikes. Where exactly in the Bay? Yeah, East Bay. Okay. Yeah, like Walnut Creek area. All right. Yeah, man. It's just— You know Fremont? Yeah. I've got a good friend, Ryan Kwan, who pastors the church there that I've preached at twice in the past three months. Yeah, nice. There's a weird amount of people from the Bay that go to TCU. We were talking about this last night. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, there was nine kids from my high school and maybe like 25 kids from the area across the board. You want some America? Is that what you're trying to get to? Yeah, simple as that. Freedom. You want freedom. You don't want to be. California has some baggage that comes with it. And those people. I know. Just want a little bit of, you know. Terrible politics and no humidity. Yeah. Seriously. I know. I would pay the taxes for the weather. Oof. Yeah, it's just the lack of freedom. It's crazy. Right, right, right. God bless my boy, Brian Kwan, man. He's doing incredible gospel work there in some serious hard ground. Yeah. Yeah. But Dylan, your story is amazing. I want to, you know, we sat down last night and talked about this, and I want you to kind of give us a 30,000-foot view of what you want to tell about how we are here, and then I want to use the rest of the time for you. I asked you a question last night. If you do these podcasts, what is it that people don't ask you that they should, right? And if I'm hearing you right, the answer is, like, let's just, let's talk some Bible here, right? So let's get your story so that we can get the context of where we're going, and then let's talk about anything you want to talk about here. Yeah. Yep. My story on the surface is a story of cancer recovery, but it's way more than that. It's a story of like how I got saved. It's a testimony of how God can work really all things for glory. Everything that can be worked. Even he showed me that cancer and all the pain and all the suffering that I had to go through could somehow be mixed into a salvation equation. And I was like so humbled. And it took me years to come to that truth. I thought for a long time I was suffering to suffer, that I somehow did something wrong. How could this happen? And it was only until like last year, and I'd been through cancer for four years now, since I was 18, I'm 22 now. And only really recently did I realize that this was all part of a, like a very deep salvation equation. I was first diagnosed with cancer when I was 18 years old. I was a senior in high school, spent my whole year in and out of the hospital, treatments, chemo, radiation, had a surgery that replaced my jaw. And it's one of those things that I was really weak in faith. I was shallow in faith. I was fragile in faith kind of my whole life. Very baby believer at the time. And so I hit rock bottom like really fast, right? it's like when you when you when your roots aren't that deep it's really easy to pull the weeds right so i got ripped out of the ground pretty fast that first bout uh got put in a hospital bed my head got shaved um so lost my hair was still getting comfortable with a new scar and like working through that and i got my first taste of like the goodness of god like i i'd heard that being said my whole life god is good god is good but i got a taste of who the good father was in that moment when I was like brushing my teeth and I couldn't recognize who I saw. And I have a, for those that know me, I have an identical twin brother, like identical twin. And so I'd see him and I would see who I used to be. And I'd look at myself in the mirror and I didn't know who I saw. And for the first time in my life, I realized that even though I was unrecognizable to myself. Like I was recognizable to him and he would shower me with love. Like he would meet me in the night. He would wipe away every tear. Chemo was a huge side effect of like nausea. So I spent a lot of nights just like throwing up my stomach and he was there. And so I got a huge introduction to the goodness of God, the nurturing heart of God for he's so big, but he also is so intimate and so close. He's so compassionate. And I got like such a flavor of that when I was 18 years old. And I didn't even know how good it was until he was really revealing himself to me more and more. Jeez. Would get through that year. That was my first taste of the goodness of God. And then the second year, I was 19 years old. I was a sophomore in college and I would get re-diagnosed for a second time. And that got super interesting for me because I would finish chemo the first time and they said, Dylan, you're good. This is such a lie. Such a lie to the enemy. Oh, Dylan, you're good. Go live your life. Forget this ever happened. Like that was what the doctors were pushing on me. And so I would finish that first time and kind of go back to how I used to live. Pretty unchanged. But then I would get diagnosed a second time a year later. And that's when things got really real for me. when I was like, whoa, this life is short. This life is finite. These things are gone in the wind. It's all vanity, says Solomon, right? It's all vanity. And that really opened my eyes. First of all, too, this life is short. And I think the biggest danger to young people right now under 30 is people live like their life is almost infinitely long. Like the idea of like you living 75, 80 years old to an 18 year old seems so far away that it's almost infinitely far away to the point where you don't feel like there's going to be consequences for your actions. Like that eternal judgment is not going to come to pass and the enemy wins in that narrative. Like if you've lived, the only amount of time that you can comprehend is actually how much you've lived on this earth. So if you've lived only 18 years, the most amount of time that you can mentally comprehend is 18 years. And so to talk about like your life is short, to talk about like there is an eternal life after this to someone who's young, it's hard to grasp. But when I was 19, I really had to sit with the reality that this life does end and that there is an eternal life. And I decided for myself in that moment that this is where I want to go. I went all in on Jesus. I said, Lord, I'm yours. I'm done doing it my way. I've done it my way my whole life and look where it got me. Failure. Worldly pleasure, worldly success, worldly achievements. I want him. I want what the kingdom has because this life is too short to pursue anything else but him. and that put me into a huge surgery like 21 hour procedure um involving my right leg which like totally handicapped me for life which I've been working through for for a long time now um and then also more head and neck stuff involved in that procedure so so many moving pieces how to like learn to walk again and learn how to chew and swallow simultaneously and that brought more pain in my life than I could have you know even describe on this podcast stuff that would truthfully just get lost in the past and stuff I really never want to bring a light ever again but I woke up from that procedure flat on my back unable to move there were just it was so nasty it looked like a car accident to be honest and I couldn't speak there was a ventilator coming out of my mouth and I realized for the first time in my life I couldn't actually do this by myself that is such that is so necessary in our walk with Christ is for the breaking of your self-reliance I think self-reliance is such a danger and when God can can use your suffering in a way that shatters your self-reliance breaks your mind to say I can't do this by myself and the only way I succeed is through him. Like what if, what if the only way to succeed in your life is through the intervention of a supernatural God who is stronger than your situation? What if that is the only necessary way, the only possible way to make it out? And I realized that in that procedure that there was no way I could make this out by myself. There was no way I could recover the way I did. There's no way I can make the strides in physical therapy the way I did. There's no way I could be able to like eat food again without his intervention all throughout that recovery process. And so I credit all of that to him being our strength, him being our provider, our protector. He is our nutrient source. I'm the vine. He's the, or I'm the branch. He's the vine. like it's it's his supernatural nutrients just flowing into our bodies giving us the life and so i felt all of that you know ephesians talks about the full armor of god and that's like super well known um but that's the truth you know like i step in there and i am you know you ever seen like captain america where he's like you know super scrawny and like he gets all juiced up, but that's kind of what the Holy Spirit does. So, you don't sound like a 22-year-old. And I'm not throwing shade, but most 22-year-olds are idiots. And you just sound so mature beyond your age. And you're jacked. Thanks, bro. Thank you. I hope—did you go to the gym already today? I don't know if you did— No, we're going after this. I don't know if he hit a pre-pump, pre-pod, you know, so his guns look good on this video. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah. I don't even know how to ask a question after that. Bro, that was so powerful. I just want to encourage you, man. Paul tells Timothy, let no one look down upon you because of your age, but set for them an example in life, love, speech, and purity. That's the sense I get from you. I mean, God grew you up real fast. I mean, he, like, the Captain America thing is it. He puts you in a microwave of spiritual maturity and sanctification, you know? And I'm, we have thousands of, like, 18 to 25-year-olds that come to this church, you know? Which is funny because when all the church grows, people ask me, what do you do to attract them? I'm like, ridicule? I don't know. I just, like, hammer them all the time. But God is doing a unique work in your generation. And every great revival in church history started with teenagers and early 20s, every single one. And what's happening in students' lives right now, that's where it's happening, bro. And I have this sense. Look, I'm not a hyper charismatic dude. You know, I'm just a Bible teacher. But I have a sense God has a real anointing on your life. and I've heard you talk now for seven minutes or something, but people without the Spirit of God don't talk like you talk. And so never apologize for the Lord's anointing. Just walk in it. Just walk in it. So you have a lot to teach, not just kids your age, man, or young men your age, but you've got a lot to teach the world and God's people. So you lean into this. and I can tell you already have. I mean, Scripture's flowing out of your mouth. Hope is exuding from you. You're not playing the victim. And if anybody could crawl up in a corner and say, why me? It could be you, but it seems like the Spirit of God in you is not saying why me, but what's next. And so you lean into that. And if I can ever serve of being any help, what are you going to do with your life? You going to preach? Yeah, I gave my life to the Lord. He called me to full-time ministry this past summer. I can help you with that. And he's, oh my gosh, every time I sit in my prayer room and he meets me, man, all he talks to me about is where he wants to take me, how he wants to use me. So that's where most preachers miss it. It starts in a long place with the Lord. I mean, before Jesus ever enters full-time public ministry, for 30 years he's living in utter obscurity. and then it's 40 days of temptation in the desert by himself. It was personal. It was private. It was painful before it ever went public. And then there's too many people right now, especially people that, I mean, they love God and they want a platform, but they don't want to do the personal work, the painful work, the private work. I mean, before David ever got to slay Goliath, think about this, he was a shepherd boy. And he could have thought that being in the pasture was punishment. But that's where he learned to play the harp. And that's where he wrote Psalms. And he got really dang good with a slingshot. And then one day, God's man says, you're up. And he was ready. Not because he was trying to aspire to be the king, but he was just trying to be faithful to do what God had put right in front of him. So walk in that. Because you got it, buddy. Thank you. I'm just honored to be here. I'm just honored to serve. I think what what God worked through me was oh man just a taste of his kingdom you preached last night about the you know the kingdom of God is here that's right and every time I sit with him in my private time I know I like do stuff like podcasts and speaking stuff but I'm like I'm an introvert at heart man I just I love him I want his presence more than anything like I don't want to be anywhere or any platform or anything like this more than I want to just be in private with him it is like it's like my happy place it's like the best place I could be he fills my cup I come to him empty he fills me up so I can go pour it out places and he tells me where to go I'm never worried about where I'm ago. Um, and I don't ever lose that. Yeah. Cancer shattered my desires for the world. Like, dude, I don't want, I don't want anything of the world. I've seen people stand up out of wheelchairs. I want that. Yeah. I've seen real life miracles happen. I want that. God turned my, turned my, my, my sight. And he's like, no, no, no. Look at all what's happening here. Look how I'm moving over here. And honestly, you get a taste of the kingdom of God present here. Even the shiniest things of the world are just dull compared to the fruit of the Spirit. Yeah, Matthew 4, 17. And from that moment on, Jesus began to preach, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent means change the way you think, because we haven't been thinking about this right. And then when he begins his public ministry, it says he did three things. He taught, he proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom, and he healed. The order matters. Oftentimes, we have a very truncated view of the gospel because we think the gospel is just the gospel of salvation, and it is. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is what we need to be saved for sure, but we're not just saved to be saved. We're saved to be a part of his kingdom, to bring heaven to earth, to push back darkness. Like we have a whole different kingdom ethic. It's not just a get out of hell free card, you know, so I get to go to heaven one day. And when we think heaven's out there somewhere, then what we do is we delay heaven instead of embody heaven here. Come on, come on. This is what we're about. This is what you're about. and so I mean my the ministry that God has blessed me with the majority of it is sitting in the woods by myself with my Bible and the Lord saying Lord they're your sheep, they're not my sheep, what do you want to say to your people? and I open the word and he does not owe me a sermon I wrote the one you heard last night I wrote in Texas, so maybe had a little extra anointing at a deer ranch but that's it man so don't ever lose that You know Philip Anthony Mitchell? Of course. Okay. So his entire preaching ministry is nothing but an overflow of his prayer. That's it, dude. That's it. And because I have the elders that I have here that are just gracious, godly men and have a covering over me, and because I have the team around me that does all the crap, like we talked about this in the last one, they run HR and they keep the air conditioning and the lights on and they get the parking, you know, all that stuff. I mean, think about this. In all of church history, who gets to do what I do? Like my family gets provided for, we have insurance, those kind of things. I'm not out hustling, figuring that stuff out. This church entrusts me to go sit in the woods, hear from God, and then come back and say, here's what I heard. Here's what the word says. and this is the direction we're going. Bro, you be about that. And if you will just be faithful with what he places right in front of you, then maybe he'll trust you with more and more and more and more. Or maybe you'll get the blessing of just getting to be faithful with whatever's right in front of you. And so at this point in my life, I get asked to speak. I don't know, probably the girls looked at it one time. It's like 400 speaking engagements a month or something like that. There's no X. For about every one I say yes to, there's 100 I say no to. I don't have a press kit. I've never taken, I don't push out anything. I don't do any of that. I've just been, when I was a youth pastor, I was just dedicated to make disciples of those teenagers that were right in front of me. My pastor told me I needed to plant a church. This was not my idea. This was God's idea through my pastor. And under his authority, we planted this. and then God has just decided to expand it. And if you do it that way, if you don't hustle, you hustle with Jesus, you hustle about the kingdom and then you just let your ministry, you just let God handle the details of that and be really sensitive and do whatever he tells you to do. And when you get an opportunity, you pray, you guess, you go. And then the Lord will just get you in the right spot And if you praying about it rightly even if you go in the wrong direction somehow because sometimes we do right We mishear God Then he will send a big fish swallow you up and puke you out on the shore you need to be on so that you are where he has you And you know how much freedom there is in that? It's a great way to live, do life and do ministry. You got the goods, bro. I don't say that to very many people. Thank you. I'm honestly just honored. I'm honored. Well, I'm going to give you my number when we get done here. You know, this cell phone, I don't have some kind of fake bat phone. That's me. Yeah. And I'm going to, whatever I can do to serve you and God's calling in your life, you just let me know. Thank you. Yeah, buddy. Thank you. Yeah, I don't even know that I'm supposed to be here right now. Yeah, you are. No, no, no. You're the man. No, no, no, no. People can't feel this, but I feel it. The reason we're here is for you two to meet each other right now. and I just don't want to get in the way of this because this is beautiful. Like, just hearing the two of you talk back and forth, I just want you all to keep doing that, man. Talk to me about your parents. How'd you grow up? Yeah, I grew up in an ordered house. I think obedient kids come from order. You know, it's like, it's less about being a good kid and more about being an obedient kid with order in the house. i grew up with a healthy fear of my dad like respected him to the bone he's just a hard-working guy you know i i'd saw him you know he'd come home from work you know later later at night and then he'd still be like reviewing documents on the couch like we'd be doing homework as kids and he'd be doing his document stuff what does he do uh he did uh like legal work for a real estate company. Good. So he'd just be like reviewing contracts and all that stuff. Just a hardworking guy. And, you know, he came from nothing. And, you know, I just grew up respecting my dad. You know, strongest guy you look up to. He just taught us to keep working and he's the biggest supporter of what I'm doing. Like, he's the first guy I'm calling wherever I go. What's your dad's name? Michael. Michael, good job. I know you're going to watch this. Good job. He's watching for sure. Way more is caught than taught. Way more is caught than taught. Kids, especially teenagers, are terrible listeners. They're incredible imitators. And so you can say all the words, and words matter. There's no doubt. Most kids will either live up to the blessing or the cursing of their father. But way more is—I mean, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11, 1, follow me as I follow Christ. So way to go. So when it hit the fan in your life, circumstantially, you had grown up in a house of faith? Yeah, so it was definitely a baby believer when I was in high school. I grew up going to youth groups. But the foundation was there. Yeah, strong foundation. Way stronger of a foundation than I realized until I had to fall back on it. When I fell back on it, yes, I was still fragile. Yes, I hadn't gone through much trial. but there was a faith foundation that I credit a lot to my parents and my grandma for. I mean, she's just an intercessor like nobody's business. And she really contributed to that faith foundation when I was a kid. And then obviously when I got diagnosed for a second time and I went all in for Jesus, I mean, this became Matthew 4, 4, for man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. You can skip breakfast, but you can't skip this. You can go without food, but this is your food. This is your nutrients. How about when Jesus is talking to the woman at the well, and the boys go get something to eat, and they come back, and they're like, hey, boss, you hungry? He's like, I got a food you don't even know about. Yeah, yeah. Everything about that? Dude, I'm speechless right now. I really am, man. Like, I'm torn up over here. This is incredible. Just listening to you two. So I'm not trying to check out. I'm not trying to be rude, but this is a moment right here. Well, Paul tells the church in Corinthians, like, hey, man, y'all got plenty of teachers. You ain't got enough fathers. And nobody will replace your dad. But we need more. One of the things that especially the predominantly white evangelical church could learn from our African-American brothers and sisters, the black church, can't tell you how many of my black preacher buddies, I'll be at a conference, we'll just pick all those conferences together. He's like, hey, let me introduce you to my father. And then the next conference, there was another father. I was like, what are we doing here? And what I didn't realize is he was talking about spiritual fathers. And we need more of that in the church. That's what Paul does with Timothy. Calls him his son, you know? And, man, shame on the dudes my age that look with suspicion at the young guys your age. that is not by God's grace that's just not the lens he's given me I'm looking to raise up sons in the faith and sons in the ministry and to I mean you know Elijah does a thing right and then he goes and picks Elisha which is very confusing in the Old Testament and gives him a double portion of the anointing because think about it dude the only person in your life that ever wanted you to do better than them is your dad. We need more of that in the church. You know, one of the real problems with a lot of churches, it kind of goes both ways. We put the older guys out to pasture way too early, you know, and then we got a bunch of older guys hanging on the things way too long. And there needs to be a, this is a relay race, bro. Pastor Jerry, my pastor, he says this all the time because he passes a church like three miles down the road. It's an incredible church called Beach Church, faithful to God, people getting saved there, and lives are changed. He preaches the words. It's incredible. His son is a youth pastor on our staff here at this church, and he's in the fourth quarter of his ministry life, and he will say, in the kingdom of God, success may not be what you do but who you raise. I think about that all the time. 1122 is going good. We baptized 3,000 people last year. I mean, it's 529 people have gotten saved this year already. Okay. The spirit of God is on the move. Bro, you know what we're doing this year? Matthew. Yeah. We don't do goofy stuff here. You know, I mean, I'm goofy, but we don't do like, this ain't entertainment. We make much of God. We gather together on the weekends, bro. It is, that's the thin place between heaven and earth. Okay. So, but, but we, what if, what if the thing that our church is about is not even what's happened now. What if we are like the aircraft carrier by which we raise up this next generation to take the gospel? Like, what if my job is to equip your generation to accomplish the Great Commission? That's the way I see it. Right. Not, not whatever. How many campuses can we get? I mean, now matters like crazy, but I'm thinking of this thing like long term, like even in our kids ministry, but we don't do childcare. We do gospel centered ministry. If you drop your baby here off, guess what? Those workers, they change the diapers, they keep them safe, and they pray the scriptures over them. You know what I mean? We're trying to raise up an army of world changers with the gospel, and I see it in your generation. Yeah, God met me in a quiet time, and he said, Dylan, you're the Joshua generation. He said exactly what you're speaking right now, and I believe it. I believe that Gen Z, like our folks who are like 10 to 30 right now are going to be the ones that really take us into the promised land, whatever that looks like. It's his will, not ours. And it's not going to be pretty on our standard. It's going to be beautiful on his standard, but he's going to take us across that river. Let me encourage you with this. The first sermon ever preached here. So we opened the doors September 23rd, 2012. And the first sermon was called Our Turn. And I stood on stage. The first thing we ever did is pray. And then I just simply said, what we're doing is not new. It's just our turn. And we stand on the shoulders of faithful generations that have come before us and prayed for revival in Jacksonville. So we are sitting in the fulfilled prayers of what generations of people have gone before me. And it is, I'm 52. And now it's my turn to be real sturdy shoulders for the next generation to stand on, to continue this good gospel work. And I think you'll do even more. I mean, think about this, dude. Moses was a big deal. He wrote the first five books of the Bible. He walked across the dry land, split the Red Sea. He received the Ten Commandments. I mean, calls on the plagues against Pharaoh. He's a really big deal. He brought the law from God to God's people. And post-death, he gets one verse. And Moses went to be with his fathers. Josh, you're up. Think about that, bro. My football coach in high school used to say this, like when I thought I was a real big deal. And he led me to Christ. He'd take a cup of water, and he'd put his finger in it, and he'd pull it out. And he says, you see the dent? I go, no. He goes, that's your life. Now, he was talking about he can get a new linebacker just like that. I think about it all the time. Like my goal in life is to love my wife, be a good dad to my kids, pastor this church, preach the gospel, die, be forgotten. Who cares? You know? But I want to be a part of that Hebrews, great cloud of witnesses in heaven, cheering on where your generation takes the gospel. and I'm believing your generation will fulfill the Great Commission because here's the thing, man. You got fire. You guys have, in a unique way, I think your generation is polarized. Like the lost kids are more lost than you've ever seen. I'm going to be talking about crazy town here with less of the flesh, less of the eyes of the pride of life. But the kids that know Jesus, they ain't playing youth group. Like right now, if you're on a college campus and you're going to claim Christ, it's going to cost you something. and I am believing that that my generation's job is to fund and fuel because here's the thing man you got fire you got passion you ain't got nothing you got no resources you got no influence you don't have any access to anywhere anything and we have it all and so we can hoard it up won't be good or we could be a conduit of the blessing of God because this is a big fat relay race and pass the baton well. That means that's organizationally. Our church is about to roll into this this fall called Neighbors to Nations. Then it's also personally. So again, I'm going to extend you the invitation to whatever you need. You need help preaching. You need, if you get asked to a podcast and you need a little bit of discernment, you know, these kinds of things, you want some access to all the people in the country right now that God's moving in and got his hand on. They're all my friends. We're all buddies, and we're all rooting each other on, you know? Like, I mentioned Philip Anthony Mitchell, me and him and Chandler and a couple other pastors are on this little group text together, and last night, I'm like, boys, I'm about to walk out here, and I'm going to talk about Jesus calling his first disciples. I've asked that you would pray like crazy that the Spirit of God pours out and that the devil craps his pants because of what's happening here. Like I want to be, you remember when the seven sons of Sceva tried to take on the demons? So it's in Acts, and there's these guys, and their father is an itinerant Jewish exorcist. Like that's the job. And they come, they see this demon-possessed man, and they want fame and fortune. And they go, in the name of Jesus, who Paul preaches, come out. And the demon talks back to them, and they say, Jesus we know, Paul we've heard of, but who are you? And the Bible says the man leave, the seven sons leave naked and wounded. So if you get your pants beaten off of you, that's bad, okay? I want to be the kind of guy that the devil's like, Jesus, I know. Joby, I've heard of him. Like, we're fighting back darkness to the point where he's like, oh, crap, they're at it again, you know? C.S. Lewis says, when I die, I won't hell to throw a party because they ain't going to fight me no more. And so, bro, I want you to be that kind of guy. Yeah. God's already set you up for it. And the devil is attacking me with cancer because he's trying to derail God's plan. The devil's a coward. He had a claw at my face to try and take something from me, but he can't touch me. He can't touch my soul. He can't touch my mind. He couldn't torment the things that actually matter. And so like a little coward he was, he had to take something off me. And you know what? It's a battle scar. It's a battle wound. You know Matt Chandler? No, Matt Chandler. I've heard. Pastor of the Village Church in Texas. Yes, yes, yes, yes. He's probably like the most downloaded pastor of our generation. Probably, he is like the Spurgeon of our generation. He's one of my dearest friends. He had brain cancer and was given nine months to live. Eight years ago, 10 years. Now he's cancer free. And he would tell me, and he said this publicly too, when he's laying on the floor puking his guts up because of... chemo. And his real greatest fear was not to be able to walk his daughters down the aisle and those kinds of things. He never felt the goodness in the presence of God like he did on that bathroom floor when he felt helpless. And then he would say, and if that's what it took for me to experience God like that, I can only say worth it. Only say worth it. John Piper preaches this incredible sermon on suffering. And he says, it's not meaningless. It's not. Whether it's a car wreck or cancer, it's not. Corinthians says that God is working in you a particular glory. We may not get to see it till we get there, but one day we'll stand at his throne and be like, it was worth whatever it took for me to get you. That's what I hear you saying. Come on. Talk to us about hope. Before we started, you mentioned hope. Yeah, I think hope is the most important thing that's going to walk you through suffering. It's essentially you combine James 1, 2, and Romans 8, 28 with the power of the cross. Let's go. It's almost like you just make a sandwich out of those verses that if you're telling me, because counting everything as joyful is an impossible ask if the tomb wasn't empty. Come on. to be joyful in it that's the ask is you were to be joyful in everything you face and that's only possible because he rose on the third day because that tomb is empty like it says in the sanctuary anything is possible anything is possible because he rose and you can be joyful in all that you can be hopeful because of that that if he's saying that he's going to work everything for good everything, not even some things are the good things, but everything, like you said, work together. It's like a recipe, right? Like if you're trying my family or let's say it's his family recipe of the kingdom, right? It's your life, your situation. It's going to be all the ingredients that he chooses with his right measurements, right? Rolled with this kitchen analogy, right? You might be in the kitchen with God in your situation saying to him, man, God, I feel like I, I feel he doesn't taste that good. I feel like my situation isn't that good. And he's saying, look, Dylan, when it's served at the table, because you're a guest in my house, when it's served at the table and it's set and the candles are lit, you're going to taste the soup and it's going to be perfect. It's going to be not even good on your standard, but his standard. And that's his promise. We have a God who works in promise and fulfillment, right? Like Hebrews 6, I think, talks about like the certainty of the promise. If you walk with certainty of promises, it's almost a superpower in of itself. To be so convinced that everything God says will come to pass, it might as well have already come to pass the second he says something. That truth changed my whole life. That if he said, like, Dylan, you're going to be healed, which he's already implied so much to me in my private life in prayer i might as well already be healed right now amen like i get to walk in full healing perfect healing right now because of the hope that he gives us as a free gift when he rose on the third day i get to sit here right now and be joyful in the midst of suffering because that was his promise was it's all going be good. You can be joyful. And that's the hope. Hebrews 11.1. You know, it's the assurance of things hoped for. Some translations say evidence. So let's talk about James 1 and Romans 8. I love the way you say sandwich. We all love us from Romans 8.28. By the way, in Greek, God is the subject of the sentence, not stuff. So, and it is God that works in all things for the good of those that love him and are called according to his purpose. Oftentimes, we can look over our shoulder and see in the rear view the goodness of God in circumstances that we didn't want to be in. Okay, so we love that verse. I would also say, if it's not good, he's not done. If he's not good. So that's, you know, yeah, you taste a recipe and it's not done and it's not good yet. So if he's going to work together all things for the good of those that love him, if he's not good, it's not done. James is not the rear view. It's the windshield. I mean, think about this, James, brother of Jesus, count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials. That's not looking over your shoulder, seeing how God worked in the trial. That's when you see trial face to face, you're like, how you doing trial? It is a pleasure to meet you. I mean, bro, this is some like, This makes no sense on paper outside of the resurrected Christ. And the reason, and of various kinds, so that trial might be cancer or it might be inconvenient, whatever the trial is. Four, you know that the testing of your faith produces, and it produces stuff. So a mature faith is that you believe that God is so good that when trials face you, you're like, welcome. I'm glad you're here. This means that God has such a big plan for me. There's some things in me he wants to produce that won't be produced unless I walk through this trial. I'm glad you're here. The analogy I give is when my son was in high school a couple years ago, I coached high school football. I use the example all the time. And so it's right down the street here. School's called Providence and we live at the beach. So we're in the weight room and the boys are not training. They're like, they're just doing curls. Like, we don't need curls on the football field. We need to squat. We need to power clean. We need to, you know, we need big, powerful movements. And I scream out at them. Everybody wants to be strong. Nobody wants to be sore. And oftentimes what Christians do is we actually pray and ask God to remove us from the gym that he has us in. And it is the soreness that is going to create the strength. And he's like, you dummy, you want to grow in me. Have you ever seen a pruning? It ain't fun. It hurts. And you're pruning away not just bad stuff, but non-essential stuff that are going to keep you from growing. And it's actually the goodness of God. It's the illegitimate child that is not disciplined by his father. And so sometimes we ask for a fish and God will not give us a scorpion, but the fish that he's given us is pain because he cares more about who we are than necessarily our circumstances and so that that's what you're saying in the kitchen analogy and we have to be clear like it god will to heal but it more so his will for you to be saved and sanctified well you will be healed oh for sure You may be cured Yeah healing is in the cards That it So this I have the Jerusalem cross here And if you ask, I got it in Jerusalem. The oldest tattoo shop in the world is called Razuk's. It's been in the family since like 1300. And then under it, Isaiah 53, by his stripes, we are healed. and um and the idea here is that that's the five wounds of christ that are supposed to go out to the four corners of the earth and so healing is yours in christ because man we're only here for a minute and yet jesus also says you have not because you ask not and so god doesn't always promise cures but he cures a lot of people i think he like signs and wonders is is god's it's essentially like his righteousness in the purest form like it's him displaying his righteous supernatural being in the most clear and most manifested way and it brings him the most glory right i mean john 15 maybe 17 or 7 would say something like that like it's the answer to our prayers that actually gives him glory. And these signs and wonders not only manifest his presence, manifest his righteousness in full form, it also gives him glory. Like someone getting up out of a wheelchair is actively glorifying the Lord. I think, you know, like I talked about last night, this kingdom of heaven stuff, if Jesus told us to pray on earth as it is in heaven, ain't nobody in a wheelchair in heaven. Nope. And he's giving glimpses of this. So what's interesting in the Gospel of John, John never calls miracles miracles. He always calls them signs because signs point to something greater. Jesus is never just flexing his raw power. He's never like, watch this, and he just goes with the stars. But every sign that he gives is pointing to his redemptive purpose. So he heals a blind man. Why? Because it's not this man's sin that caused him to be blind, nor his parents, but this is for the glory of God. And in the kingdom of heaven, and every eye is open, and people walk, and little girls don't die. They rise up and walk. And every single one of these signs was to point to what heaven will be because he wanted people to get a taste of it and to say, you want this? I am the way, the truth, and the life, and the only way you get this, the only way to the Father. And what he also models is how we are to respond when we get the same spirit. It says the spirit is his power source because Philippians 2 would say he humbled himself. He is fully God, but he counted himself equally with man. And so him being fully yielded and surrendered to the Holy Spirit, he's almost modeling what perfect surrenderance to the Spirit can bring. That all the healings and all the signs, all the wonders is almost him setting the standard for what perfect surrenderance to the Spirit looks like. And I feel like when we read the gospels, he's saying, look guys, this is what's possible in me through the spirit. I believe so you could get the same power, same power. The only variable is really our yielding to that spirit. And I think our distractions and our sin and things like that can really pull from that, but it's the same power. And so he's like, guys, let me model this for you. I'm going to be perfectly God. And I think him being fully God enabled him to be fully surrendered, enabled him to see the full will of the father and all those things. But he showed us like, look, this is the same power I'm giving you. And when I leave and you see it in Acts, it's like, go out and do the same. Like do these same works and even greater works. Maybe not like greater on like, you know, coolness, but like greater in scale, greater in numbers, greater in millions of healings across the world, millions of salvations. And I think that was what he intended from the start. Amen. When did you start devouring the Bible like this? Like, I basically came to myself and I'm like, I am not going to let myself die without having read this word. But bro, you haven't just read it. We know it. It's your food. Like this is your source. If you want to be strong in trials, this has to be more real than anything else. And I'm going to preach this until I die. This word has to be more real than a medical report you can hold in your hand in a piece of paper or you see on a computer screen. this word and his promises is more real than a tumor in my body when i'm sitting there in my backyard at the time and the pain was rising and i'm getting sick and i'm hurting and i'm just laying there in the grass searching for his presence he is more real than the pain i feel in the body and it's that's in such an extreme mental frame but it is absolutely necessary to actually come out on the other side of any trial you face. This is more real than even me. This is more real than pain. This is more real than a MRI scan or a CT scan of anything in the body. And, you know, this is the backbone. This is the cornerstone. and I credit all of my faith to believing in this word before anything else. Like, can this be the only true thing ever? You'd probably turn out way better than anyone else. It's the only perfect thing we have on the planet. Everything else is imperfect. God's word is the only perfect thing that we have in existence right now. Don't sound 22, man. Not at all. I mean, the wisdom that's coming out of your mouth right now is like, I mean, speechless. And we spent time last night. We spent, what, an hour and a half last night, something like that. You quickly understand what this guy is on earth for, like sitting in Taco Lou. Yeah. I mean, barely, hey, how you doing? And he's letting me know this is what we're here for. Yeah. You know? And there's just a, you just, you can sense a confidence about this with you, man. and it's inspiring. It's cool. It's doing nothing but helping me love Jesus more right now. That's the truth of this whole conversation. By the way, that's what a good preacher does is you love the word so much that other people want to love it too because they see it active. So around here, that's what we do. We just teach verse by verse through the Bible because the power is in the gospel. It's not in my presentation. The power is in the word. The word never returns void. It does what it does. Like the rain waters the earth. And so don't ever get off of that. Bro, it hits different from a 22-year-old who's had what he's had. 100%. 100%. Wouldn't be the same if you hadn't gone through this. You talked about hope. The proverb says hope deferred makes the heart sick. and I find it interesting in the scriptures that the opposite of faith is not doubt. The disciples doubted. They doubted everything, and they turned the world upside down. So if you've got unanswered questions like why would this stuff happen, well, first of all, the answer is in the scriptures, and I can give you the answers, but the opposite of faith is fear. It's the most commanded thing in the whole Bible. In the King James Version, 366 times you get some version of don't be afraid or be anxious for nothing or worry not, okay? Because I don't know about you, but every day of my life, including leap year, I need to hear that command, don't be afraid. And the difference between fear and faith is this. When you look into the future, who do you think is in control? And if you look into the future and you think yourself or your circumstances are in control, then you have a misplaced faith and you will be gripped with fear. And the problem with fear is fear paralyzes. and faith produces action and faith is looking into the future. And even though you might not be able to understand, you know that God is in control and that compels you and propels you to do crazy stuff. Like Peter says, if that's really you, Lord, call me to get out of the boat, walk on the water with you. And he says, come on. And it was his faith. And he steps out and Peter walks on the water. We too quickly go to Peter sank. He did, but not until he takes his eyes on Jesus. and the Bible says he was gripped with fear because he saw the wind and the waves. And instead of looking at the one that was in charge of the wind and the wave, he looked at his circumstances instead of the sovereign Savior. And then he begins to seek. And then he cries out, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus reaches out his hand. He didn't smack him. He'd be like, what are you doing? Gets back in the boat and he goes, why do you doubt? And in that moment, think about it. What did Peter doubt? Peter didn't doubt Jesus. He wasn't sinking. Peter doubted that he could do what Jesus told him to do. And we got to believe. See, the devil wants us to believe our doubts and doubt our beliefs. God wants us to believe our beliefs and doubt our doubts. And so when those doubts come in, John chapter 6, you just pick them up, follow after Jesus. Remember John 6, feeding of the 5,000, and then the Jews are like, hey, man, you got a sign? He's like, what are you talking about sign? We got 12 basketfuls of sign sitting right over there. And then they go, yeah, but Moses gave us the bread. And he goes, oh, you want bread? I got you some bread. I'm the bread of life. Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part with me. Okay? And then they're like, well, dude, we're Jews. We can't even eat pork. We can't eat the prophet. And many begin to leave. Jesus could have explained it all to them. He could have went, oh, come back, come back. One day we're going to do communion, and it's going to point to the cross. And so what I'm actually saying is, apart from my life, death, and resurrection, you have no part with me, he explains nothing. He lets them leave. Then he looks at Peter. He looks at all the disciples, but I think he's talking to Peter because he knows the heart of every man. And he goes, do you want to leave too? And this helps me a ton when I don't understand the circumstances. And Peter's answer, he's probably thinking, I kind of do. I mean, I walked away from my business. I walked away from my family. I thought everything was going good. We got like 15,000 people at this event. And now it's leaving and you're saying crazy stuff and I'm not a cannibal. I'm not going to eat your flesh and drink your blood. and then he says out loud, recorded in the text, to whom shall we go? You're the only one that offers eternal life. And I have seen, I've been a pastor for 33 years, and I have seen people because of circumstances walk away from God and they never find what they're looking for. And when they come back, they just come back with the same questions. Now they just got a bunch of scars. And Peter says, to whom shall we go? you're the only one that offers eternal life. So when you got doubts, you just pick them up, follow after Jesus. And one day when you get to heaven, all your doubts go away. Like in heaven, nobody's going to be like, do you believe in Jesus? Like he's the shiny one sitting on the throne. You can ask him because your faith becomes sight. Yeah. Yeah. My least favorite thing for someone to say is clarity. I hate that word. I hate the word clarity because your clarity and your understanding is not necessary for God to move. He's not waiting for you. Like that's exactly what you were just saying. Like he, you understanding everything, him explaining to you things, him unveiling curtains and all these things. Like that is not by no means a hindrance to his plan. And he does not need that at all to move forward. And honestly, clarity, the more clarity you have, the less faith is required. I'm like, you know, nothing good. Keep moving forward. Yeah. Clarity of direction is vital. Like our direction is the great commission period in dot. You know what God's will for your life is? pray continually, give thanks, forgive, take the gospel to the ends of the earth. All right. That's Thessalonians and Matthew. All right. Clarity of direction. This is direction we're going. How are we going to get there? I don't know. Clarity of knowledge. Now we see through a glass dimly. Now we know in part. When you can't understand the hand of God, you got to trust the heart of God, that he is at work in all things. I mean, think about it. Joseph, after he's been beaten up, sold into slavery, after he's been falsely accused and he's in prison and he's been forgotten. And then eventually God elevates him to like senior VP of Egypt. And God's gonna use Joseph's faithfulness to continue the bloodline out of which the Messiah comes. The brothers that turned on him, that beat him up, there was domestic violence, there was human trafficking, there was false imprisonment. And they're all kneeling before him because he is the boss and he can do whatever he wants. And they think he's going to kill us. And he says, am I not in the place of God? And he says this, what you intended for evil, God intended for good. It doesn't say God used for good. God does not play second fiddle. God does not drive an ambulance. He's not riding around cleaning up all the messes we make. that from his perspective, what his brothers intended for evil, God's intention that whole time was for good. And not just Joseph's good, but my good and your good, because it was through his line that the 12 tribes come, that the nation of Israel is birthed, that out of that the Messiah comes, life, death, resurrection of Christ. Missionaries take the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're the ends of the earth. The center of it's over there where it all started. and we know Jesus because what the enemy intended for evil Pontius Pilate when he says what should I do with this man named Jesus and they say crucify him kill him he goes hey I wash my hands of this what he intended for evil the crucifixion of Jesus God intended for good the redemption of all things and think about this imagine if you're standing let's say it's it's uh it's good Friday 33 AD and you're standing at the foot of the cross and the son of God is being murdered, you would have to think, God, have you completely lost control? And God's like, no, this has been the plan from my foreknowledge from before the foundation of the earth. I'm redeeming the world. Just give me a minute. It's gonna make a lot of sense on Sunday when the stone is rolled away and Jesus puts death to death. that is the ultimate example of God is at work in all things for the good of those that love him and are called according to his purpose. Yeah, that's so good. He's never going to fail. You know, people have more faith in the return of Christ than in the power of the gospels. Oh my gosh. People have more faith that Jesus is coming back than in the power of the gospels. God did not send his son to the cross for it to fail. He did not send his son. for us to 2,000 years later need a military invasion from heaven to come rescue us. Right. Jesus is coming back on accordance to the will. Right. But this gospel will succeed. And his blood is sufficient for us to be drawing from for all time. Right. Like we were made perfect forever by the single sacrifice. this cross, God's will, it will never fail. There's nothing we can do to mess it up. Like us saying, Jesus come, Jesus come. Like he'll come in time. We can believe that for certain. And he's patient because he desires that all would believe. Amen. And we got that. That's why the Great Commission is urgent that every tribe, tongue, and nation, I mean, the thing that's going to bring most glory is every tribe, tongue, and nation around his throne in the bouquet of his humanity and his image bearers are just singing, Holy, holy, holy is Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come. And it is our job to then take this good news to the four corners of the earth, to every tribe, tongue, and nation, so that he will return and we can get there. You know, part of the way that you probably do that is you take a young guy who's not walking fully with the Lord, and you put him in a situation that he turns into 375,000 Instagram followers where he's preaching the word every single day of his life. And that's what's happened in your life, right? I mean, that's—in the world where we talk about millions and millions and millions of people, 375,000 people following a 22-year-old. Yeah, man. is that's God's work right there, man. Yeah, we taught way more people than Jesus did. You ever think about that? Yeah. When he says you'll do even greater things, it's not greater in intensity. Like I'm not walking on water and making the waves obey. But it is greater in scope because he put his spirit in the body of Christ to then take this message to the ends of the earth. Chuck Swindoll, you know that name? Old preacher. You need to listen to everything he ever said. I don't think he's preaching anymore. Faithful man of God for a long, long time. He says, when God wants to do an impossible task, he chooses an impossible man and crushes him. Leave room for the crushing. In Matthew chapter 20, when the sons of Zebedee mom goes to Jesus, like, hey, can my boy sit at your right and left? The first thing he says is, you don't know what you're asking. It's not mine to grant. So you want to talk about living under authority? Jesus is before all things, preeminent, spoke everything into existence, all things have been created for him, by him, through him, and to him. And he goes, that one's above my pay grade. It's only for the Father. So don't ever expect God to give you authority until you learn how to live under authority. And then he says, are you able to drink this cup that I'm going to drink? And they're like, uh-huh. He's like, you don't know what you're talking about. because he was going to drink the full cup of the wrath of God so that you and I could drink from the grace of God out of that cup. Yeah, so anytime God wants to do a great thing, your ministry capacity will be directly related to the amount of pain you can endure. See the cross. Yeah. And so God is preparing you for greatness because you have been through great things. It's like Romans 17 or 18. Like when you get paired into his suffering, you get paired into his glory. Yeah. You want to walk in Jesus? Well, you're going to walk in glory. Amen. But you're also going to walk alongside and pick up your own cross, whatever that looks like. And people want all the glory without the cross. People want all, they want the full kingdom without having to walk alongside Jesus to Golutha. Wasn't that the temptation? One of the second temptation? So the first one is, aren't you hungry? Why don't you turn these stones to bread? Jesus could have done it. If you can do water and wine, you can do stones to sandwiches. And he's like, no, I live on this word. not on bread alone. Then the enemy takes him up to the high place and shows him all the kingdoms. And he's like, this is going to be yours, right? See, the devil knows God, the father's promise to God, the son, you're going to rule over and reign over all of this. And the enemy's basically like, let me give you a shortcut. Let me give you the crown without the cross. And Jesus is like, mm no chance no chance That speaks to so many people too Speaks to everybody right I mean it doesn have to be cancer Everybody got their form cancer You know it can be a sin that you can get rid of It can be, you know, just about anything. It can be, you know, mental health. It can be whatever it is. Like just, just hearing you, you guys talk, that exchange right there is so encouraging to somebody like me who we just, before you came in and recorded another podcast and I just said, you know it's just so frustrating because you want to you want to do all the things you want to do all the things right you can't right and you fall you fall and you fail and you think where does this put me like does this does this does this knock me down in the in the in the god power rankings yeah you know what i mean and then just to sit here and hear that exchange right there is just so encouraging of, man, you got to go through some crap to get the good stuff. You know, it's the way this life is built on purpose. And I've never been more certain that I'm in Christ than when I'm in suffering. It says in 1 Peter 1 and verse 12, beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you. And the next verse it says, but rejoice as you share in Christ's suffering that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. During the Bible only in the New Testament, I think it calls us Christians three times. And one time it's people making fun of Christians. So one is derogatory. I think the Bible in the New Testament says 168 times we're in Christ. Wait, okay, so it calls us Christians three times. I think it's three. and one of those are derogatory. It's non-believers making fun of these little Christs. That's what Christian means. And then the church kind of adopted that derogatory term and says, okay, we'll own it. Yeah, that's us. We're little Christ. All right. But it says we're in Christ. I think it's 168 times. And it's a little bit about what I was talking about last night. There's a bunch of people that want to wear the banner Christian, but they're not in Christ. so you heard me last night if I were to ask the average person in Jacksonville are you a Christian? I go, oh yeah, I go to church I show up once a week and I listen to you talk about it and that would be the equivalent of saying to me are you a football player? I go to all the games I watch all the ESPN follow-ups I study the draft board I have the jerseys but if you're not on the field doing the things are you actually in the game? and Christ has called us to, in him, be in the game, be about his father's business. And in regards to sinfulness, it reminds me, I was interviewed, Tim Tebow goes here, and I was, and he's incredible, incredible man of God. And we were doing a series on Timothy, and I thought it'd be a good idea, especially when Paul's talking about the farmer, the soldier, and the athlete, you know? And I was asking him about, interviewing him about it, and he said he had this really good take. I think too much of the modern Christian evangelical life is all defense. Everybody's just trying to not do bad stuff. And he's like, you know how little you think about that when you're trying to advance the ball down the field, when you're trying to advance the kingdom? You know, like when you go on a mission trip and you wake up every morning and you spend time in God's word and you sing songs of God and you're with God's people serving the people of God, all of a sudden the temptations of the enemy just get get it just loses its taste the image i have is this it's almost like we're born with all these handles and we all don't have the same handles and the enemy's like the walking dead he's just trying to grab on to those handles and then the more we're about his kingdom the more we're in his word the more we're with him the more we're surrounded by god's people it's like the handles keep falling off and the enemy just like, I can't grab that handle anymore. It fell off, you know? That's it, dude. This is why Paul, you're talking about the freest guy that's ever lived. Paul is in prison, okay? He writes this to the Philippians. And he says to live is Christ, to die is gain. What do you do with a brother like that? What, you gonna threaten him? Hey, man, we're gonna kill you. Will you? Cool. Because I get to be face-to-face with Jesus. Never mind. We're gonna leave you here. Cool. You got a hymnal? Because I'm going to sing and leave the jailer to Christ. I got work to do. That's a guy playing chicken, and he ripped the steering wheel off and said, bring it on, devil. That's freedom, man. That he's not, he says in Galatians 1.10, am I now trying to win the applause of man or the applause of God? If I were to try to win the applause of man, I am not a servant of Christ. Like, what are you going to do to that guy? That's the freest man that's ever lived. Paul was also a man who had certainty and promises. No doubt. You know, like when he was on the ship that was going to shipwreck and the angel visited him and said, no, no, no, you're certain to be in Rome. You might as well consider Paul in Rome at that moment. You know, everyone's freaking out. He's like all the Roman soldiers, they're dumping up all the stuff overboard. Everyone thinks you're going to die. And, you know, an angel says, Paul, you will testify to Rome. Like you're going there. And so that's a promise of God. And he thought he was going as a preacher, but he went as a prisoner. So check this out. Like in Romans, a couple other places, he desired to go to Rome. He hadn't been there yet. He desired to go to Rome. He thought he wanted to go as a preacher in his plan, but he goes as a prisoner. And then guess what happens? He gets linked up with the prison guards that were hit with him work directly for the emperor. He begins to lead those guys to Christ. He says it. He says, like, say hey to everybody. You know, he calls a few names. And then he's like, and even the Roman guards say, hi, there are new brothers. You fast forward over the next 300 years, Constantine comes on the scene, puts his faith in Christ. There are so many Christians in Rome that Nero was able to blame the burning of Rome on Christians. That's how many there are. Over 60% of the Roman civilization at that point were claiming Christ as king. And it didn't come top down. It came because a prisoner led the guards to Christ that began to influence the power brokers. And that's how this thing moved. That is not the strategy. If you had like an evangelism committee, like how are we going to take over Rome? It wouldn't be. Let's go to jail. Let's get our main guy arrested and get his head chopped off there. And that's how God's going to use it to turn the world upside down. When did, were you always big into fitness and working out? yeah well fitness for me started in high school football um i was smallest guy on the team freshman year i just like walked in with the chip on my shoulder didn't like getting beat up in practice so you know we just learned to hit the weights and then it just became like just my lifestyle um since really i i love to lift i love to get after it it's one of my favorite things to do. It's more so a hobby now. Like it looks like discipline on the outside and yes, there is discipline to it, but there's so much enjoyment to like diet. There's so much enjoyment to like going to the gym that it doesn't feel like it's, it's like me disciplining myself. Um, it's just my favorite thing to do. It reminds me, same. I mean, I've been training for a long time and, uh, I love it. I love to live, love to train. I love to beat my body. I love to say no to my flesh and my diet so that results happen. You know, there's greater joy there. It kind of reminds me, sometimes people ask me like, so how do I, how do I read my Bible? And, and I'm like, dude, it's been so long since I haven't loved it and wanted to. It's kind of like when the person says to me, how do I get in shape and I'm like, I have a hard time in my mindset because I've enjoyed it so much. I'm like, how do you not want to, you know? And it is like that. Like when you taste and see that it's good, you just want some more of it. Well, I mean, I'll be the odd man out on both of them. Like, I mean, that's, I have to force myself to read the Bible. I have to force myself. He asked me last night at dinner. He's like, are we working out after the, I was like, we? Cody, you're going Yeah. All right, well, like golf, man. You have to force yourself to go play golf. No, no, no. But the reason I ask that is it's just like all the excuses that people have on why they don't do certain things, why they don't live a certain way, why they don't work out, why they don't. Well, man, it's like on it. I know. I have no excuses. Nobody has any excuses, and that's why I asked that. So you just – cancer came, and it changed you for the positive. and really that's it like you you kept the things that were good in your life you fixed the things that weren't good in your life and now you're just absolutely living on fire yeah it's as simple as that yeah yeah and you know i do make i think diet is a huge discipline for me um like for example like i'm traveling for two days to be here right you know i don't eat out at the airport i'm not going to get crap. It's not like my goals take the day off when I'm traveling. Like half of my suitcase is clothes. Half of my suitcase is ground beef, you know, and I pre-make it, right. I got up like, got up an hour and a half early than I, than I should on my travel day, cooked up a bunch of ground beef. I got pasta, beef, I got some fruit and then I'm set. You know, TSA thinks I'm crazy because I have six pounds of meat in my bag, but like, that's what it takes you know and like that's who i am that's how i roll you know like i that's what it takes for me well that you just said something key because identity precedes activity and so like i don't i i'm i'm not technically an athlete anymore right but i still view my my identity i competed in bodybuilding for a long time i played football wrestled all the things and so i work out because I'm an athlete and that's what athletes do. I don't work out in order to be an athlete. I read my Bible because I'm a son of the king and that's what I do. I'm not trying to read my Bible so that I can have God's approval. I have God's approval and I've got his word. This is just what we do. I don't take my wife out on a date so that she will love me. I love her and I'm her husband and that's what husbands do. I discipline my kids because I'm their dad. My identity precedes my activity and not the other way around. And when you begin to see yourself that way, I'm telling you, if you could see yourself as God sees you, you'd always do what he says. And how God of Christ, okay? Not impart it. Impart it. There's some denominations that teach this, and it's wrong. It's wrong. And they will teach you, if you do your part, it puts you in a state of grace, and then God will do his part. That is not what the Bible says. The Bible says, 2 Corinthians 5.21, that God made him who was without sin to be sin for us, that we would be made the righteousness of Christ, that there was this great transfer, double imputation at the cross. Our sins are credited to him. His righteousness is credited to us. Two primary illustrations in the Bible, in Ephesians 6, which you mentioned, the armor of God, he says, put on the breastplate of righteousness. That is something that covered your heart from the outside. Now, let me ask you, have you ever seen a chubby breastplate? No, they're all chiseled. It's perfect pecs and abs. So when Christ puts his righteousness on you, even if you're a doughboy underneath, he sees the perfect breastplate. That's what he sees. And over time, what's on the inside, your doughy stomach will begin to conform to the breastplate. The other example, Luke 15, parable of the prodigal. When the boy comes home, the dad goes running to him. There's so much to this. Covers his faces and kisses. The first thing he does, he says, get my robe and wrap it on the boy. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the boy cleaned himself up, before he came home. And so what the father does is he wraps his perfect, spotless, righteous robe around the boy so nobody sees the sin and filth he comes from. They see the perfect cleanliness of the father. This is a picture of Christ's imputed righteousness. Most people in evangelical churches today believe half the gospel. If you were to ask the old spring break question, if you were to die tonight and you were standing before God and he says, why should I let you into my heaven? If you begin with personal pronouns, you're not doing it right. If you go and say, because I, it's not because of what you did, it's because of what he did. But most people will say, because I believe in Jesus, he forgave me of my sins. That is true, but it's not the whole truth. Not only did he forgive you of your sins, but then he imputed you with his righteousness. Ray Cortese, a Presbyterian pastor down in South Florida, uses this example. If you were a trillion dollars in debt and couldn't pay your bills, and you went to the bank, and you're like, I don't know what to do, and they forgave you of your debt, you would be grateful. But if that's all that happened, you would leave the bank and you would be broke and you would have to get to work to earn a living. That is not the gospel. The gospel is, you go to the bank, the bank president comes down and says, not only am I going to forgive you of my debt, I'm going to adopt you as my own son, and here's my debit card. And now you're living in the fullness of what the Father has for you. You're not trying to work to stay saved or to earn the favor of God because like at the baptism of Jesus, before he ever does any work, he hadn't preached a sermon, hadn't done a miracle, hadn't died on the cross, resurrected from the grave, before he does anything, God's word over him is, behold, my son, in whom I am well pleased. If you're in Christ, God's word over you before you ever preach a sermon, bro, before you ever go on another podcast before you ever do another thing. God's word over you is behold my son in whom I am well pleased. Come on. Yeah. Hebrews 10, 14 for by the single sacrifice, single payment, you were made perfect forever for all time. Like that is that message in a core that for Jesus, Jesus was so qualified. It's the qualification of Jesus that made that possible. He was fully qualified to make a single payment for us to be in him forever. And that's where you get that picture. And it's so powerful. And I wish people knew who they were in Christ because your position determines your possession. Right? If you are in Christ, your possession is righteousness. But if you don't believe you're in Christ, then it gets really murky as to what you have. Correct. Right. When you were in Christ, you actually have the entirety of heaven behind you. Paul would say in Ephesians 1, like every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realm is now yours. Like the debit card. You're walking around with the Holy Spirit inside of you with the debit card of God. With every, all the angelic beings behind you. You mentioned like Elijah and Elisha earlier. And like that picture of God was giving like Elisha kind of like intel. on the king and they come to like kill him and they surround him fully. Like, and he, the servant wakes him up from a dead sleep saying, Hey man, look, we're here to, they're here to come to kill you right now. This army, they've already surrounded the city. They've already got their whole detail. They got the SWAT team ready to come and bust this door down and kill you. And what Elisha saw was chariots of fire, thousands of angels. He saw the power of God circling above that servant couldn't see, but it's when we get to walk with this divine perspective in Christ. Like that was such a big moment in my walk in cancer was like, I started walking in divine perspective. I started realizing that yes, the situation doesn't change. There is still an army circling. Like cancer is that army and it is truthfully still there. but what changes is actually our perspective and what we can't see is that there are chariots of fire above us there are thousands of angels with their swords ready to pounce for our protection like that is who we get to walk with in Christ like when you walk into that church it's not just you but it's thousands of angels the chariots of fire that picture was almost a glimpse it was almost a prophecy of how we get to walk all the time in Christ today, 2026. Surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, just cheering this generation on from heaven to be about the Father's business. I don't think you two understand how elite this is right now for me. I'm going to make this about me. This is exactly what I needed, guys. To hear you two go back and forth with this is, I mean, just my favorite one we've done. It's not even close. Like, this is impressive, man. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. No, no, seriously. Thank you for coming all the way here. Like, thank you for just everything. I mean, you're truly, I don't say this lightly, like, you're truly an inspiration from a Christian perspective. Like, you're somebody that people can look to and they can not only identify with, excuse me, but they can try to be like, regardless of what their situation is. I don't care if you've got a hangnail or you've got cancer. Like, you haven't let that situation define you. In fact, you define the situation. And that's incredible, man. It's awesome stuff. Awesome stuff. And to see you come alive with this joker, that was cool. I mean like that that was cool to watch well when God called me to ministry and I said yes to teach the Bible for the rest of my life I thought it'd be way more like one on one little groups of people and honestly I was completely satisfied to do that I didn't know it would be what I spend the majority of my time doing now you know what I mean and so I'm just the filter by which I say yes to things is just this. I'm a disciple maker. That's what I do. That's what the Great Commission is. That's what my king told me my job is. So if it makes disciples, I'm about it. So to see, that doesn't just mean lost people getting saved. That's the beginning of it. But that means I save people living sent. And so when I see a guy about the kingdom business, I just want to pour fuel on that fire that it'll just burn brighter and brighter and brighter. nope that's it that's what excites me we gotta do this again yeah is there anything else you got that goes quick I mean I know I hate I hate to win this yeah we'll do this again yeah we have to it was the easiest flight to get out here hour and a half yeah I'll be back you give me a call we'll do it you ain't gotta wait on our call yeah yeah I'm just telling you you just text me appreciate it yeah we'll go train together next time yeah let's do it get ahead of it dude let's go we'll go to this you hunt Dude, I want to get into hunting. I can shoot. I can help you with that. Yeah, let's do it. All right, we'll go shoot hogs in South Georgia. Oh, my gosh. To the glory of God. Come on. Or I can just set him up with Sammy in Texas, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm honored. I'm honored. You're like in the hunting mecca, bro. My brother's watching this right now. Shout out my twin brother, Ryan. He, oh, my gosh. He's got to come with us now. No problem. Yeah. No problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll come out your way and we'll hunt a big Texas. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, let's go. That's where I was all week. Well, thank you guys. Both of you. That was awesome. Yeah, dude. Honored to meet you. I'm being serious. If I can do anything to serve you, we'll give you my number and you just ask. Yeah, man. You know it. Of course. Bill for More Podcast. I mean, I don't know how else to end this. We appreciate all the support. At Bill for More Pod, Denny Thompson, Pastor Joby Martin. We appreciate you guys. We'll talk to you soon.