Episode 469 | Ray Daniels

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Let's go. Our iHeart radio music awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th. Live on Fox. Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you loved listening to all year long on your favorite iHeart radio station and the iHeart radio app. Hosted by Budakris. Icon award recipient John Mellencamp. Innovator award recipient Miley Cyrus. With performances by Alex Warren, Kaylani, Lainey Wilson. Budakris. Ray. TLC. Salt and pepper. And in vogue. Plus Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu. Neo. Nick Colesure Zinger. Nikki Glazer. Sombra, Weiser and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th. At 8 7 central and listen to iHeart radio stations across America and the free iHeart app. I'm Daniel Alarcón and this is my friend is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green cohost of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I Rory and today we are back with a new episode and we are joined. We got another guest, probably a guest that I think we both been wanting to sit down and talk to for a minute. Yes, this is probably the most excited I've been for a guest in a minute. And I don't mean that a bad way to our other guests. Yeah, no, everyone's great. Everyone, every guest is the greatest guest you've ever had. But this is somebody we're supposed to say. This is somebody that I've argued with at like I've yelled at the phone. Yeah, I've got my phone. Like I've argued with this person. I've never met them. I've raised my eyebrows. What did he just say? What did you say? But he is one of the guys that I respect because he's actually done it. He has knowledge in the game. A&R music manager. Yeah, he's worked with you know, everybody. Lizzo, Beyonce, Rihanna, Future. You know, he's so he's an elite chopper. Yeah, he's one of the he's one of the guys that I respect. But when he says certain things, I'd be like, I wonder, I want to rate first. I want to reach out to him. I'm so happy to meet you. I can't wait to talk in fourth or online because then it comes across the wrong way. So today we are joined by Ray Daniels. Thank you. Thank you. By far, the last the last year, some of my favorite content that's that's come out of this music podcasting space. Because I do feel like this got oversaturated the way everything has. So it's very tough to find people that are just starting in this game where it's like refreshing. Yeah. OK, this person's going to stay here. As I told Ma, I told Ma said, we should have did you two years ago. I'm like, bro, I wasn't ready. Yeah, I had to earn this. Like, I feel like I earn this seat. Like, I feel like when I did other shows, it's because who I am and what I've done. And I got relationships with everybody. So I can cheat my way into certain rooms, but it's those rooms of people who don't know you. Who's like, I found you online, but I respect what you're doing. So I appreciate that. And you work with my brother. So I didn't know that. No, no, listen, your brothers are my family, bro. So when they told me when they told me you and they found me, I was like, that makes sense. Because from our space, it takes a lot to be to do what we do, like and go outside and like and like give your opinion. Right. Like it's hard to do this. So when I see you, I'm like, oh, he talks like he doesn't give a fuck. He has to come from something. Yeah, he comes from something. He talks like I don't care if they call me. Like I don't give a fuck. Like I'm a stand on it. And even on top of that, because I mean, despite what podcast fans and listeners think, our opinions are not bought based off our relationships. I've worked in the major label system. You have as well. Yeah. Maul is from fucking hip hop royalty. He's family. He's he's royalty. Yeah. The amount of calls I have gotten with people I've worked with like, you know, can you say this? Nah. Yeah. Or get mad at you when you start saying shit on the microphone. My pain is not for sale. It becomes very taxing of like, yeah, we worked together for 10 years at Universal. OK. Yeah. I'm not going to say nothing disrespectful, but I'm always going to have my opinion. Have you ran into that at all? You know, this is this has been the hardest journey for me. And I feel like I'm just getting into the place where I'm having fun. Like like I got online and start talking out of desperation. Like it wasn't like I wanted to. Like if I didn't write this letter, dear white music execs, I'm probably EVP, a president of a label right now. Yeah. So I wrote a letter that put a light on me that made my peers see me as black. I was clear. So like I will I will be in the room working on records for for Zara Larson, Pussycat Dolls, all these pop acts. And they'll ask me what I think. And I'm like, I grew up listening to eight ball of MJG. Like I'm I'm not giving you my subjective opinion. I'm giving you my objective opinion. Like I know objectively how to make records. But it's it's been hard, bro. That's why I'm glad I'm here, because if I would have got it earlier, it would have been like, oh, they probably just know him from such a such. That's why they let him on. That makes sense. Like this is a real journey. I'm on because I feel like I see the future. And I'm like and I talk to God every day. And I'm like, I know what needs to be done. Like y'all are more the future than they are. They just have the infrastructure and the history. So they are arrogant about it. But like I remember when I was coming up in the music business, when Shakir knew your name, if KP knew your name, you will. If your brother hip hop. I remember the first time your brother called me and he said, Ray, I'm like, oh, I'm in the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My name, you know, I was. I came up in that industry. And then when I finally got to my top SVP title, instead of signing what I wanted, I signed what they told me to sign. So now it was like, well, we signed what they told us to sign. And why are we in here then? Like we should all be outside because like and then you start realizing like y'all don't know how to pick. Because see, what people don't know about a major label is when they sign you, they're betting a million dollars off top. Because even if they gave you half a million, they know they have to commit to video spending, travel. So like they're betting on a write off. But even if it's a write off, they still know they got to spend. So my point is this is that they have 100 million allocated. They only can spend a certain it's not that they can sign 500 things and see what works like, or it's not that they could say, we're going to give instead of giving 100 artists a million, we're going to give a thousand artists a million. It's like, what? Like you you you're making it bigger. Like it's supposed to be this is an exclusive thing we're in. So once I started realizing we were letting anything in, anybody in. And it was like, like, I feel like I'm that nigga. Like I feel like I've earned the right to be that guy. So when I see when I come in a room and I got to sell you to an art myself, to an artist, that's weird to me. Yeah. Like I knew who Shake was. Right. I knew how it was. I knew who Kaiser was. You had to know the players to be in the game. But now you don't have to. All you got to do is make some noise online. And now they're treating you like you're the next big thing and you feeling it. But you don't even know they just need that record. They don't have no they don't know what to do with you after they get that record. And they know you need the record. You need a record. They all need the record. So they like, if I get it, that means I'm hot. The record don't have to work, y'all. Right. The record don't have to make no money. But the fact that I got the deal tells the company he's valuable because he can go get a deal. So when I saw Annaly Choppe, it was like a huge moment because it was like, how did you get that? You be baby? How did you do that? I'm like, I just stayed in it and I just know what I'm just a human, bro. I know how to close you. Like I know what I want to hear. I know what I heard. I know the buffers told me to make me say, OK, he's offering 400. He's offering 500. He's offering this. But I like him the most. I know what that what he said. So I just, yeah, it's like being human, bro. Just fuck with people that love you. Yeah, I think even like with what you're doing, you know, being a former VP of ANR. We've always talked about the herbs, dames, like those type of execs not existing anymore. Of course, we have QC, we have Orlando. We have great execs. Don't get me wrong. But not ones that are forward facing. Like if you could imagine if Irv and Dame had Twitch in 2001, my god, I don't know if they'd make music anymore. But do you think that that's kind of missing where there is an opportunity for that exact to come back as the salesman in the face of a label? Because because Irv and Dame were entertaining. They were both they were both rest in peace. Irv geniuses in their own right. Yes. On a marketing side and business side. But they are also you couldn't keep your eyes off them. You're dancing in. Puffing, puffing, puffing, puffing. I want to ask you all something. I have a statement that I want to make to y'all. I believe that the moment on backstage when Dame cursed out Kevin Louse, that's when the black exec died. Because everybody say this before. Because I disagree with it. Let me out. Everybody from that point forward. If you're watching Dame and Kevin, I know everybody that I was with wanted to be Dame, which meant you wanted to have your own stay outside the building. And it became lame to be in the building. I was like, you a thug. You lame. So we almost lame ourselves out the building. And now the lame to have the power. OK. So I think that so to me is like, you got to understand a cool niggas not intimidated by another cool nigga walking in the room. Like, I actually want more cool niggas around. You know some shit I don't know. But when you're not a cool nigga, cool niggas intimidate you. For sure. Like, I remember me and a dog. I knew it was different when I signed this kid to K baby. First thing he asked me, not do I know Timbaland? Not do I know Pharrell? Do you know Gary Vee? I'm like, what? He was like, bro, can you get me in the room with Gary Vee? And I'm like, why the fuck do you want to talk to Gary Vee? What the fuck does he you think he knows more than me? Try to be inspired. No. And I mean, for me, it was just it was interesting because, you know, when you get to that point in your career, when someone says, yo, I want to work with Timbaland, I'm like, FaceTime, Timbaland, my nigga, I work with Jermaine, you get those relationships, you take pride in that. So I'm like, who you want to work with? And you say a name. I'm like, what? Yeah. What? Like, that's what you want to do. So you start understanding like the world is different. You rather talk to Gary Vee. And then that made me say, imagine if Gary Vee was the president of a label, a major. Every young artist would want to sign to him. So I was like, I'm going to be Gary Vee. I'm going to be the dude that gives all the information away. And yes, I can get paid for a lot of this, but the 95 percent is going to be bullshit. But that five percent that listen, that's like, I heard you like me with Dame. When I see Dame and your bigs, I'm like, bro, y'all raise me. When I talk, I want y'all to be proud of me. Like when I said something, Dame called and cursed me out. I was like, no, I'm like, this is this is Dame Dash. Y'all let me through FaceTime nigga. Like I made it in life. Like I'm family with these niggas now. So I just wanted to be accepted by them. But these new guys, they don't care what y'all think. They don't care what I think. They're empowered by someone who's saying, fuck what they think, do what you want. And that's why the game is. But I think the same way artists now have to pivot to the times as far as being personalities and being more than just a musical artist. Yes. Even what Leor put out with the pivot with YouTube and the letter he put out the other day, like artists, I hate to say, guys, you have to be more than just this now. Different time. I think executives have to be that as well. Like justice from LVRN. I've been telling you, go start a podcast. You're the craziest personality ever. And you actually know what the fuck you're talking about. Imagine a shark tank if it was Irv Dame Bigs in that regard, where Mr. Wonderful is the face of every product that he puts out. Yeah. Mark Cuban is that as well. I think there's an opportunity right now for execs to have that. It's just execs are super corny now. Yeah. So they don't really exist. But if you get someone like a Sycamore that could be on Mike all the time and actually be the face of everyone that he signed. Yeah. Now we're having a different conversation because Sycamore is really an A&R. Sycamore really cares about this. Yeah. Like I remember working with sick when he came to Epic and I was he was doing Travis and he was he was he was say something and it would be like it was a slam dunk, but it was so small. Like I got a house, Travis going to work, Metro's coming and we're going to go. Let's go. And you know, that's not exciting. Normally normally it's like I don't care. Right. Tell me what happened after you made the hit. But he was leaning in so much that I was like, you could tell he was one of he didn't he wasn't a label guy. He was with them and he worked at the label. And that's what Sycamore gets. Like he gets that like you have started that way. Yeah, same way. I'm with the artist. Like I was with the label because I had to give the late. I had my money came from giving the label a hit. I can give you a hit. But if he the label and he ain't paying for it, I don't give a damn how excited we are. He has to pay for it. So I knew the whole I knew all the labels in the exec. So I came up in that world. What years were you at Epic? 2013 to 2015. I did I worked with. So I did the Sierra Jackie album. So I did the I bet you start loving me. I turned that in and I did the future honest album. I just want to take you out and show you what. So I did those two albums, amongst other things. But yeah, 13, 18. I asked that question because one of my first gigs was with Shawn Money at Def Jam and then he went with L.A. Reed over to Epic. Yeah. Where were you there the day that Bobby Schmurder was standing on top of a desk rapping to all those white people? I wasn't in the office because I wasn't New York based. But right after the deal got done, it was a big issue because, you know, God, it was a lot of stuff to have with that with Bobby Sprint. I know, you know, like, what you got. Shaw was the one that shot. Yeah, exactly. Shaw Money trying to sign him. Yo, Gotti wants him. It's this whole thing. He's in L.A.'s office. We don't give a fuck who gets him as long as Epic gets him. Yeah. So we got to sign him. So I was I was there. That was a show money to the he shot the shot money, man. Shaw was there when the the studio got raided, when he got arrested. He's one of the greatest executives. Like, I mean, that's my black man that came up in his business. So yeah, Shaw Money was one of those greats. And to see him not in a president's job is like a travesty to our world. That's why he's there with people like him not in power. Sitting on this couch. It wasn't for sure. Yeah. I want to ask, though, like, what did like, what did y'all think? When that video went viral with Bobby as working at that label, especially as a black executive, even you writing the white executive letter. Yeah. Seeing that go viral on the whole Internet, going, why is Bobby Smurder standing on top of this fucking desk in a conference room? Yeah. Wrapping to all these fucking white people on their lunch break. I'll tell you, that was the way you got the business excited for you. There was no internet. So, you know, the story of Nelly, Nelly was signed. He got an album out. They trying to get universal focus on it. He flies the St. Lunatics and Nelly up, plays a song in a meeting. They come into the conference room, take it over. I think that that's necessary. Like, so that during that time, you needed to stand on the table. If you didn't stand on the table, that meant that you ain't ready for the big stage in the minds of the label, because that's the stage in the room. And we all stand and you stand on the table. You take advantage. So yeah, it was. But that was a little crazy. That was like that looked like shucking and jiving. Well, it does because. OK, let's talk about it. It does because you got to remember, LA is the only fucking opinion in the room that matters. But everybody else in the room, if you all Bob, you all had, right, save and we in the meeting, bro. And I like, I want to sign her. I'm like, I'm about to sign Alexis. She's with us. And I'm like, I'm signing her. Y'all motherfuckers better not Bob, your head. Don't do nothing because your head Bob might be at your three hundred thousand dollars because they like, I don't know how Ray felt. But Rose Bob and the fuck out his head. I know he liked it. So sometimes you got to. And that's another tactic that we do in the music business. Sometimes you just stare at the camera. You stare at the artist in the eye and you sit looking at the eye. And if they look away, I know you don't believe in what you're saying. Like, so it's like tactics that we use was like, we're going to stare at you, all of us and see if you break, because that's usually how you break. You usually don't nobody usually gets in front of an audience. And it's twenty thousand people that know the words. Usually it's 30 people. No one knows you. You got to go out there, hopefully make an impression. So for me, that's a part of it. All of it is a part of it. You just got to play the game. Yeah. And I mean, I've been in plenty of conference rooms where similar things happen. But Bobby is at that. You know, he was a young kid from Flatbush. That's how he acts. Like, I don't think he was doing the shucking and driving thing. I could see why the Internet thought that. But that is how they bring in new new talent. I'll show you. So I can tell you. I can tell you. I can tell you. Yeah, I can tell you a story, an epic story. By the way, shout out to L.A. Reed, because he taught me what showbiz was. So we're turning in Sierra's Jackie album. So this is Sierra. She's a big deal. We have the whole label come meet with Sierra. Like, if you're a new artist, fuck you. Like, Sierra has an album. Everybody stopped for two hours. So we in a playback. And mind you, we killed it, bro. Like me and Sierra left like, yo, and I never forget this. She was like a scene out of a movie. We walking out of the meeting and everybody stays in. I'm walking my artists out. I know I got to go in and when we walk out, I see Janelle Monay. And what's my man? I'm a classic man. The Jenna, the Jenna, the Jenna, the Jenna. And they all dressed like Michael Jackson in the 80s, like suits and shit with like these dressed up suits. Like army sergeants. I'm like, so I'm like, what's going on? And they was like, you need to go back in, right? We about to do a showcase. And they came in and when that fucking he had, I never got a cane on and he stepped up the fucking chair like like a gentleman. He jumped on the table, came with his cane, play that shit on the table. I'm a classic man. Nigga, LA told me after it was done, that's how you get a label excited. You know, Sierra did good, but that's how you get a label excited. You make them jump on a fucking table and make them people see you. And I was like, and by the way, look what happened with that record? Like we knew we had a hit day one because of how they presented it. So it's you're right, bro, but it's also a necessary evil. I need to see if you can do this because you're going to have to do this. And if I give you a million dollars today and you I don't check to see if you're going to do this, it's going to be pie on my face. Well, he was nobody likes him. He doesn't perform. He doesn't work. And it's like, I knew better because he didn't do it for me. But the talent level and we was talking off Mike about this, the talent level now, though, in the industry. But is it it seems to be like it's an afterthought. It's almost like, no, just be famous or be popular first. We can we can sprinkle talent around you, but you have to have somebody that has personality, somebody that people just want to click and watch. Like is it more important to just be famous now in the labels and people like yourself and be like, OK, we can sprinkle talent. We can bring in the right producer and make this a thing. Well, I'm going to be honest, what you just described has been the industry for the last five years. For sure. And that's why we don't have any superstars because these guys are not really there to get. These guys are not really there to be like Michael Jackson, which is Argo. They're there to get rich by any means necessary. I remember one day I was talking to Chopper's manager and I asked him, I was like, yo, bro, we got to get a record out. And he was like, we have the number one stage in the in the market. I'm like the number one stage, like, you know, like that's the shit you. Like, I'm like, I never thought I would hear that. Yeah. From I'm trying to tell you, let's put out more music. And you like, nah, we got the number one stage we enjoying what we at. Right. Artists are artists that treat themselves like spokesmen and just selling whatever they could sell. If it's music, cool. But if it's this shirt, and I can make ten million doing that, as long as I got rich, I won. And that's not the artist. Lauren Hill was sick as she wasn't on top. Right. You know what I'm trying to say? Like these Michael Jackson would be depressed if he wasn't the biggest in the world. Like I remember if you Michael Jackson's documentary, bad documentary, you know, that the the the bad, yeah, bad. And Michael was calling the CEO of the label Martin, not cares about, but the guy I forgot, Walter, Walter Yetnikoff and and Michael would be calling him, saying, we're not number one yet. What are we going to do? We're not number one. Think about that. Yeah. Michael fucking Jackson from Thriller, 100 million is calling his label here. Like we're not number one. What are we doing to get number one? That's why it worked. These artists don't care about number one. They care about money. I'm rich. Also, labels care about money, too. And I think a lot of that is the labels are like, listen, we don't care how we make this money. We don't care about the artist after the artist is done here. Like we want to make money. And I think that a lot of the, you know, the problems or the lack of great music that we have is because the mindset changed in both the labels as well as the artist. But do you, would y'all not say that? Stay right there. But would you not then blame it on the shareholders? Right. Because like if you invest in the music, you have to know you invest in the music. They be investing in the music and don't want to take no else. Who the hell do you know? You're all tea and this shit. Wait, wait, hold on. What P&L sheet has music on it? You can't hear a P&L sheet. That's they care about. That's what they listen. What you mean? That's what they care about. Even we talk about the big three as far as major labels. Big three is now with streaming services with movies and they're just regurgitating every Marvel movie that ever happened. They don't give a fuck about film. You think they give a fuck about music? This a P&L sheet. You're but we in trouble. And on top of that, it's going to sound fucked up. Sorry to cut you off. It did start to when you have people hold. I'm a hustler. Just so happened, I know how to rap. I'm not hold love's music. You know, that's a music nerd at the end of the day. But his goal at the end of the day was not for his love of music. Ho was trying to get the fuck out the projects. You trying to get that money? As he fucking should. GZ was trying to get the fuck out of Macomb, Georgia. Like they wouldn't do that if it didn't lead to a financial situation. Now they happen to be extremely talented at what they do. These kids are just looking at the lick like. That's what I'm telling you. Like everybody's going YouTube and do it. Like Jay came from the greatness code. Jay thought Jay cared with big thought. Jay cared with Nas thought. He cared with jazz thought. That's what made him great. These new sexy red doesn't give a fuck with with with with Lauren. Thinks about her music. She don't care what Nikki thinks about her music because I'm rich. And that's the problem. You're going to get rich, but there has to be a respect part to it. Whereas like I want the respect of their peers. So that's why even me, like you start enough saying we saw this guy's like, that's respect to me. That means I heard someone speak like my peer. So I want to talk to you rather than like, who the fuck is this guy? Where did he come from? So a lot of it is just, you know, putting it out and hope they find it. But like, oh, people don't care no more. That's my problem. Like you don't care what your idols think about what you're doing right now. Right. I mean, the goal was always that no matter who it was. Again, back to the Jay example. Jay is so smart. If he didn't know he was one of the best rappers, he wouldn't have looked at that as a lick. Now the lick doesn't need talent. Like GZ had to kind of learn how to even though he's in the South. And but I think if you compare right now to GZ, GZ is the crazy GZ's nose as far as lyricism goes compared to what's going on now. And his catalog is so much better than everything that's out today. He knew that's that's what it took to be in the market. And the market doesn't call for that. But the goal is the exact same. GZ and Hove was trying to get rich. But is it just trying to do is it just in our culture? No, because I don't think this happens outside of hip hop and outside of, you know, I think it's people are for the love of stocks. I think it's our culture because our culture is it's the poorest, right? Our culture came from poor people not having anything saying, let's create something. So I think that hip hop is our extract. Like it's how we can make money. And like, my mother will be driving school buses right now for twenty five hundred dollars a month if it wasn't for hip hop. If it wasn't for her son having the opportunity at hip hop to retire her in 2012. So to me, hip hop is our savior. But we're we're allowing it to be a joke. And that's my issue where it's like, I don't mind a jokie artist, but can we get some real? But you can't get real if you don't have real execs in the seats. And these people can't tell you. And there's a few like Sycamore, Larry Jackson, Dash over at Geffen. There's a few that are really good. Orlando, Orlando is like Orlando. If this some shit happened, I don't give a fuck if it's in the third world country. Orlando is going to pull up with his jury on in a Rolls Royce and he's going to close it. That's what makes him a great executive, right? He understands music. Yeah. And you got you have to understand that part. We don't have that part no more. It's like, like I remember having to play a record for LA to get it out. Now you don't have to play records to get it out. You don't just put it out. You know, you know, it's twenty dollars, three dollars at some places. Like just put it out free at some place and we'll take our money on the back end. So I think the they've made it the entry so low that everybody's coming in. But I think it's fading. I think we're past that. I think that the music is about to get back to what it was because the gold rush is over. Like when the last time a TikTok artist like was a Jello Jello's probably the last TikTok artist that had a bid on war that had like and look at what happened with that. So it's like we take time. Don't break you set seven million, eight million, eight million. He thought that was great. No, I thought it was a great deal for Def Jam. I think they were cooped in two months. No, hell no on their investment. Oh, y'all are out. I'm on. No, this is why I think it's crazy. You're saying this because you're one of the million. 13 million. You're one of the few people that that understands streaming that is on YouTube talking about the shit. You don't think that they made their money back in in the span of the months that that Jello had. You know what? It depends on how big they market share was. So let me get an example. Let's say if they were point eight market share and Jello record took them to one point one. That point three percent jump is worth more than eight million dollars. You're right about that. But it's just the way streaming is paid out. So that's why that's another thing. We're not rewarding the greatest. We're just like, it don't matter. It's like, I made money this court. I keep my job. And it's like, I remember L.A. told me he was telling me about Clive and he was like, Ray, I've never had the number one artist in the world. And I'm like, nigga, you signed Bieber. He was like, yeah, they were huge. But Clive had Whitney. And you know, I'm like, I know Whitney was big, but to me in the 90s, I think Rihanna is just as big. And he was like, you have no idea. L.A. doesn't come from the world where having a hit and making money makes him happy. He would be sick if he had a hit and he was making money. He needs a superstar. That's what he feeds off. L.A. is one of like the last music men say it again. Presidents. So like. It's bad. And I shout Steve Bartles. I like everyone that's involved, Lucien, whatever. They're not music men. Like L.A. you're you're talking a foreign language right now. Yes. That's what it's like. So I hear you, but nah. Jello with sinks made that back in two fucking months. Probably did. But like, but here's the thing. What happens when somebody else comes in a row? What a deaf jam deal. What happens when the next person comes in a row in a viral record? Will you think he's going to tell them? No. And first of all, I don't think he got no. Eight million or thirteen liquid. I think they put it up against something and they made it back on what what they put up. I think he made a little bit of change. But what they put against the loan that they had. Yes, for sure. But the way streaming pays out. If he helped their market share jump a few points, it's worth over eight million. Like if Spotify made 300 motherfucking million, they got to pay you one hundred and fifty million and it's based on market share. So that means if it's one hundred million, you get eight hundred thousand dev jam investment was worth it. Yes. So I'm like, so that's what he did it for. But yeah, I wouldn't let that number get out. I can't believe they let it go on the ship. They got to do a little legal company. You gave Jello eight million. I want nine. Right. Right. I mean, to me, that that's marketing, I think, respectfully, anyone that does like announce those those numbers and shit stupid just because the IRS. But to me, that's marketing with all right, you guys in the bidding war that was for Jello, you started the bidding war when you already had to deal with him for marketing purposes. You're putting that number out to make Jello seem bigger than he really is in that regard. So that was like, oh, never mind. Maybe I got to pay attention to this. I give you some information. I don't even know I'm supposed to say this, but fuck it. When we signed in the lead chopper, his we gave him eight million. That was the biggest deal in Warner Records history in the Atlantic for a new artist. And the way the deal was set up, we got we didn't get his masters because he had a partnership with United Masters. So we had the income. Yeah. You know, I think nine months in, we got a three point seven million dollar check from United Masters. Now, think about how big chopper was compared to how big one song from Jello is. It's like, I don't think people understand the numbers. Like, and by the way, United Masters might pay differently compared to the major labels, how to get streaming. But I know we were cooped. I ain't gonna lie when we get in that eight million, I was like, man, we fuck. I was like, I guess we're never going to get that back. I mean, I know each other is not not my type type of shit, but I would guess he's somewhere in the 20 million, as far as value of which he would bring to a label. He probably makes he probably makes Warner about 15 to 25 million a year. Whether he puts out an album or not. Yeah. Mm. Just just with the back catalog that he has already. That's what made me never take a job again. That's why I can't do what I did again. I can't like I haven't been at that company in four years and I'm still making tens of millions of dollars and I don't get no royalties, no, nothing. I'll never help somebody get rich again and not have something on the back end for me. So all right, here's my change the business model. This might be a quick nerd segment. Let's go. I like nerd moments. I agree that you should be paid way more. OK, based off that, if you bring someone in and they're bringing in this amount of money to a company, I'm with you. I've seen a lot of A&Rs try to put themselves in splits. Oh, hey, that they didn't fucking do. They're in pub that they didn't fucking do. And to me, I hear you as an A&R, you should make more money if you bring in someone that is is generating this type of income for a company. But I've seen A&Rs do some fucking wild shit. Oh, wait, you have 10 percent of this record. Why? Why? Because you because you showed up that day and transcribed the lyrics. No, because they tell they because they tell they say I produced it. You ain't produced a fucking thing on here. This is what they do. Rory and Molly, somebody y'all can get on the album. You ain't nobody. I want 10 percent if you make the album. Me bringing them in the room, I'm supposed to. They everybody want to work with them. Me bringing you in the room. I'm not. So I'm bringing you in the room. I'm going to need a percent. I think that's whack. I think that's dumb. And I always say like the person remembers it. Like, you know, the statement they say to ask for gifts, but the tree remembers the person that you took that little 10 percent from will always remember you, the motherfucker that took from me when I like in my worst moment. So I like I hate that, but like it's a big thing, bro. And it's just like nobody has a problem. It's like nobody's saying nothing. It's like we I can't believe this. Yeah, like just like I came up, you put your mama name. Like I ain't going to put my name. I'm going to put my mother name. They don't know who that is, but they just put in their name. Like it's like, damn, yeah, no shame. Yeah, like, because my mind, I'm afraid of artists like my biggest fear. My biggest fear is the artist trying to call me out, because when the artist calls you out, you done in this business. Are you? Yes. Name somebody. Name somebody to recover from a real artist calling them out. Can you give me some examples? I don't think Irv recover after 50 called him out. You bugger, you think Irv recover after 50 called him out? Like he got back to the same Irv gotty after 50 called him out. No, I think a lot of that had to do with the trial with was Supreme and you're that and then being falsely accused of money laundering. And I'm not all you know that. But what I'm my point is still an association that he got caught up in. Mm hmm. Yeah, but that was just the that was the perfect storm. The movie Perfect Storm and three storms come together as one. That's so right. 50 was coming at one point at some point. When you peak, you're going to start to fall. Murder Inc. owned everything. There's only one way you can go after that. On top of that, all of our assets are being frozen because I'm being falsely accused of never giving pre money except to do a fucking movie, which is legal. I don't understand when that became illegal to give someone money to fund a movie. If they sell the drugs on the movie, they're going to try to get you. You know, they're going to find a way to try to get. Prima selling crack on set and get a bug. I thought they were going to find a way to blame it on somebody. 100%. So I think it was a perfect storm of those three things of the peak just hitting its peak and starting to fall as everyone does the same way. 50, 50 at a peak and fell musically. Everyone hits that. Why nobody? So I don't know what you're saying. Let me ask you a question. Why is nobody working with? What's Mary J. Bloss husband name, ex-husband name? Oh, God. Is it King? What was his name? Is it Kedar? He's the only man that's given alimony. Can do can do. Can do salute, King. Listen, can do can't manage anything now because Mary don't fuck with him. Yeah, but when Mary don't fuck with you, you're not on the island. No, you're done. Now, but you've got to pick it. You have to win for losing there. You be the only man that gets alimony out of a case in in the history of the court system. That's true. Own that, shut the fuck up and sit over there. But the table, but I'm tabled you was able to sit at. Oh, yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. Jay Z. Table, where you sitting at? You're done. He can't come around. One artist said he can't come around. You're done. Pastor Troy did his masterpiece. He killed him. He killed no limit. He killed no limit. I don't. But again, I think that's more of a perfect storm or what was going on with no limit. I don't think Pastor Troy killed no limit. I ain't a lot, bro. I was I was I was in Atlanta. I was there. I was nigga. I thought I was a snow limit soldier. I thought I was no limit soldier. And then when Pastor Troy said, tell P them down south, Georgia Boys is ready for war. I was living in Georgia. I'm like, man, forget them. So I'm a down south Georgia. It's like artists can change how people see people. Oh, yeah. 100% Biggie did it to Kwame. The fucking polka dots is like, what's one person that's new says, yo, shit is oh, you are. Jay Z did it to T. Payne, death of bottle to. T. Payne admitted it like. I mean, it's got a good nice check, though. He just sold that catalog. He got no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I have to get pushed back. Let's go. This is insane. And this is whole vendors. Let's go. We are the most Jay Z. Bias podcast of all time. There's one thing that Jay Z did not end it. The death of auto tune was a resurrection. Jesus Christ walked again after that death. Auto tune is still here and is the number one thing in rap right now. I get the right. Jay didn't kill shit. Payne, he did not kill T. Payne. He did not kill. He did not kill wearing Tim's anymore. That's the only two things Jay Z tried to kill and didn't kill. Jay Z. Kill the rims. He might you. He might not have killed Jersey auto tool. He did kill Jersey's. He did kill rims. He might not have killed auto tune, but he killed the face of auto to too much T. Payne. And like when he said like T. Payne even admitted it, like his money went from here to there hurt pain. No, it definitely did hurt. I think I don't I think T. Payne. How is that the case when you said death of auto tune and within the same months, your number one artist ever under you? Kanye West, who is an icon, stopped rapping and did a fucking T. Payne album. Well, eight o' ways. He did the album that he did the album because his mother died. And the one thing that you did with eight o' ways or heartbreaks is that he goes auto to him because his mother died. No, I think that he was emotional. He went to sing. And I think he was just trying to. I think I think his mother dying triggered him to say I'm going to go because my father died and played a huge role in me. Like I was when Delta called me back after nine eleven, I went back. My father died and I was like, man, Bill Cosby was my father. I wonder if I will be working at Delta. It was like death when you was a parent. It changes how you see things. So I can see I can see that happening and being like I respect that point. And I think that's a separate point that you're deflecting from. OK, let's go. Jay-Z did not kill auto. I love this shit. Let's go. Jay-Z did not kill auto to him. What's the other side? He might I say he killed. He did. He might not have killed auto to him. I give you that because people still use it. I think he killed the face of auto to which was T. Payne. And I think T. Payne was saying I think of T. Payne was sitting in the chair. He'll say, hell, you fuck my business up. Oh, no, no, no. For sure. There was a few months where where that was the case. The way it came out in what year? Oh, no, no, no. Oh, nine would be my guess. T. Payne had a number one album after that. And he still he still he still had beige people fucking with him. So, you know, T. Payne, he can make a hit with anything like, you know, black folks were fucking fucking with you and that booty. I don't know no nigga like that. But like white people was like jamming that. All right. So three rings came out this around the same time. OK, let's go. That that that should happen. And now we're going through a chapter in screw with Ludacris. Chapter in that record was fucking huge. True. Can't believe it with Lil Wayne. Oh, I can't. That came out after. This was the same time that the way was happening. But you look at you saying, though, you say it. What are we talking about? But you're saying when you say when you say little way, when you say little way and a little Chris, that's like saying he was a company by the sun, of course, is going to shine. Like, like, like when I'm talking about is when he tried to go for himself. Like, we don't mind you auto tuning on there on there here and there. But when you try to feed us auto tune after Jay-Z said this, the death of auto tune. And, you know, everybody looked up the whole. So everybody was like, well, maybe let me stop. It's a bad joke. He keeps it. Then he Charlie Kirk, the whole thing. He killed the face and the whole movement rose. I agree with that. I'm not mad. Everyone did all of it like, all right, if he killed T. Payne's career. Cool. Yes. Let's let's let's listen to that hypothetical. He killed him at the moment. Everyone kept auto tune after that. I was saying it was. The movie. He started like T. Payne was the only person that couldn't use it. That's why I feel like T. Payne spoke to that. Yeah, he said he's like, bro, I'm the only person that can use it. I remember he said usher came to him on a plane and was like, you killed R&B. He's like, what the fuck did I do? All of a sudden I was a hero. All of a sudden I got stars telling me I'm fucking up the world. Like, I'm just having fun. Yeah, I was just making music. And you look who really killed music. Payne shouldn't be on your list. I was trying to sing, bro. That was my first time. I'm going to rap a terse. Great music. Maul Boost. Mola is proving that you don't have to overpay with great wireless unlocked savings with the twenty five dollars a month forever. Unlimited plan today, not just St. Patrick's Day week, Maul. This happens all the time. You would think you'd get lucky enough just because of St. Patrick's Day. It's forever. No, this is forever, Maul. It's a permanent price with no contracts and no price hikes. You can keep your phone and your number, but you save up to six hundred dollars a year compared to any of the major carriers. Maul, can you please stop overpaying and switch to a fair price at boostmobile.com? Based on average annual single line payment of AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan as of January twenty twenty six for full offer details. Visit boostmobile.com. Salt and pepper and invoke. Plus, Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, Gold Medal Olympian, Elisa Liu, Neo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glaser, Sombra, Weezer and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March twenty sixth, Eddie Seven Central and listen on I Heart radio stations across America and the free I Heart app. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars. And now I guess also as the cohost of the away and a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcón, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico, 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love on our new podcast, The Away and we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the twenty twenty sixth World Cup for us. Soccer football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very dependable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to The Away and with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the I Heart Radio App, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So Ray, you one of my one of the things that I definitely wanted to talk to you about, let's go, was your stance on Drake's top tier rain being over as a result of him. I'm glad we talked. So when you're pursuing, yes, during the whole battle thing. Now, let's let's let's speak to the do you think that Drake's rain at the top is over? Do you think Drake's career will never be the same? Do you think people will never look at Drake the same as a result of suing the labels or just as a result of the battle? I think all of it is one in the same. And I love that you a Drake fan and you say some stuff. I'm like, come on, bro, you know, but like what? Like, like, like, no, you team Drake. Like, hey, hey, I think you said I think you you are the only person on record that is credible because a lot of people say it. But you're the only credible person I know that say Kendrick lost. The only person that I know that say that. So it's like that's a little like, God damn, he really must be. I'm tired of turning, though. I'm seeing more and more people say your family matters was the best record in the whole beast algorithm, though. Yeah, you know, like, like I'm my business partner, Alex is famous for telling me that's your algorithm because they know what you interested in. I showed me something totally different. Ties don't turn your algorithm. OK, so here's what I say. Number one, I said Drake is done if he continues the lawsuit because what happens is is you're acting like a Karen now. You got to understand rap is about being the coolest nigga. Rap is about being effortless. Rap is like I woke up great. Like we wouldn't we wouldn't like Hogan. He tried harder. Part of what we love about him is he's so effortlessly great. So while he tried so hard, like that's why he's so great. Because he tried hard. No, you're right. He stays, he stays, but he doesn't he doesn't make it seem like he's trying. He's trying. Like Michael Jordan, the only time we saw him stressed out was a flu game. But every other time he looked like Michael Jordan. Joke on my friend, there's no way Hogan's ever woken up after 10 a.m. Yes. Yes. But now, but bro, when I said he's done, it's like you got to understand from the inside, I'm in the inside, right? On the inside, you're suing real people. You're suing people you sat down to eat dinner with. These are the same people that's like you suing us. Like you saw us for doing what we probably only revealed to you because you was half us. You half us, you not like they don't tell black people a lot of shit in the music business, bro. I ain't been out in too many tables with white men that just was forthcoming with how for me to win black men all the time, but not white men. Drake is half Jewish. So he's at these table, them Jewish men, they like, bro, here's what we do. So he knows the secrets. So you got mad when he got used against you to me. That's like, bro, you only know what they doing and you suing because they showed you what you're some going against the mob shit. Like, dog, you know how much shit do you know and you know that you will never. You probably say 90 10 percent of the shit you know and 90 percent, you'll never say, right? Because we understand the world that we come from. So when Drake started like this and this and it's like, oh, you have a kid when you have a baby to hit their head, right? Everybody knows this. Don't react because you're rat. They're going to cry. Yeah. But if you don't and you're like, none happened, they'll be like, everything's around. Everything is fine. But if they see you run into him, are you OK? And it's like, Drake, if you just acted like you were OK, bro, we would have thought you were OK. Like, let's be clear. Him losing the battle wasn't a detriment to his career. When rap battles happen, we know someone is going to lose. We know y'all are friends. We know it's nobody going to shoot each other. So it wasn't like a real battle. It was like, yo, we know it's a battle amongst friends. So when you can't take a joke amongst friends, you make yourself different. It's like when we started off talking about when I'm in class, I don't want to raise my hand because I don't want to interrupt. Like, it's like you're interrupting the movie, bro. Why are you suing? Bro, it's over. We would have forgot about it if you didn't sue. But yeah, but that but but it's different in the case of if you're Drake and have information on. Exactly what the labels were doing behind the scenes on that whole thing. True. And funds that were being used that you generated in this, that and the third in business, you you're not your negotiations with these labels. And you may have asked for a number and they don't want to give you that. So on this side, this new imprint that we signed, we're going to help this artist do something that may, you know, kind of take a hit on your career and your name and your brand. So we're going to help support that. Like you can't see with artists like, oh, I see what you're talking about. So let me tell you, Drake's you actually just really helped me see something that I didn't see. What Drake didn't understand was that you're suing Lucian's office. Lucian is the daddy to all the companies. So one of his sons is in the scope and they son is Kendrick. Another son is my tea and his son is Drake. I have to treat both parties the same. So if he's winning, I have to help the same way if he's winning. Because if he don't help, then you can have top of them saying they they show a faith to their favorite. They don't want to help. So it was so a lot of the times it's like you have to let the chips fall where they may. And, bro, everybody gets knocked down. And I ain't going to lie, bro. Like I'm more of a Drake fan than I am a Kendrick fan. I just know Kendrick is more gifted. You know what I'm trying to say? He's like, I listen to Drake music way more than I listen to Kendrick. But you know the difference with how Drake is Chick-fil-A. He's the top. He sells is always guaranteed. Kendrick is Mastros. We might not eat there every once a week, right? But when we do eat there, we know we're going for something special compared to Chick-fil-A. So my thing was you gave him the advantage, bro. Like I'm a Drake fan. I be wishing I was these niggas friends. So I could tell him, bro, don't do that. Here's a Lucian going to do. As soon as you sue, what they going to do? This guy is acting like a baby. Look at him. He they're going to make you look worse. So you. So I get it. Don't get me wrong. It's an ass whipping. Don't get me wrong. Whatever it was, come back with a record. And if I was you, I would have said, like, remember how when pink did don't let me get me and she went from like R&B to rock and she goes, LA told me you'll be a pop star. They got LA hated that line. Well, he hated that shit. But it was like she told her truth and they put a fake LA video and that's it. So my thing is, it's all the game, bro. Like you are the biggest. You are the best. If you if you it's like a niggag in punch, you know, you walk all that on shit, you might cry in the car. But y'all not going to see me. All I'm saying is nigga, crying in the car. These chicks love you. You can't cry in front of black women. You know that you can't cry in front of them. You can't be lame in front of you. Can't unlame yourself in front of black women. You know that's why niggas will shoot the club before they get the ass whip because you niggas, she ain't going to do any no ass now. You just your ass whip. So you better kill a nigga going to jail for five years coming out. At least bras are going to like you. I'm a legend now. That's my point. So when Drake is like, you would have been more of a legend if you just let it go. But now we're talking about Iceman and the lawsuit. We should only be talking about the music right now. You brought the lawsuit into this. That's all. So I'm like, if you keep that going, you think universal. Would y'all do it if y'all was universal? You think universal is going to work you and give you their best if you have a lawsuit against them? No, I think they almost have to. I don't he demands too much of the space. I like right now. No, no. All of these we got some good music out this year. The only album that everybody wants to hear. The only artist that everybody wants to hear from is the one that is now deemed not cool baby, you know, lost the battle is suing. That's not by coincidence. That's because he is the biggest and the best artist. True. But but when but when you're the biggest and the best, you can't play by the rules that the small guy plays by. You have to be the biggest and the best. That's what makes you that. It's like Mike Tyson, he lost the Holyfield, but he's still my favorite box ever because no matter how many times he lost, he got up like a man. He took it on the chin and he kept going. He didn't say they cheated. It's like once you win the ring, when he Drake was saying they cheated for him. So I'm going to sue them, bro, you lost. It's OK. I like that point that you're saying. Who on earth is playing by the same rules as Drake? Nobody. Nobody. So granted. Jay and I is probably one of the at that time, the biggest battles we've seen in hip hop of what we were called two A-list artists going at I don't know if hip hop was the biggest genre data wise at that point. Now hip hop is that everything evolves and changes. And the way things evolve and change, especially with business, when you are a hip hop artist, Drake's a pop star, cool, whatever. He's still a hip hop artist. When you now control close to the same market as Taylor Swift, when it comes to a label, back to the perfect storm theory, the biggest, the biggest battle we've ever seen in our entire lives is Kendrick and Drake, because the two biggest A-list artists when hip hop data wise, money wise, is at the highest it's ever been. I know it sounds crazy to the Internet, but we can never speak like we know what Drake is going through and how important it would be when you're negotiating a deal at the level that he is during the biggest battle where you generate that much money to keep the lights on there. And y'all got the motherfucking nerve to put money bonds. Somebody did. Yeah. You right. Of course, it wasn't quiet because you are correct. What do you what did Drake think they were going to do PR wise? Of course, they're going to make him look out to be a crybaby. And I'm not mad at anyone that says he's a crybaby. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Well, I could never imagine in that situation, generating the money that I do, knowing the information that I have to be like, yo, it's all about the it's all about URL, y'all. You know what I mean? That's just all like I get what y'all saying, but this is not hip hop is the number one genre or has dropped a little bit, but it's still the biggest, biggest genre on earth as far as cultural impact. And Drake has surpassed all of that. Tim and Taylor Swift in that building, bro. Bro. Of course, I'm fucking suing. What are we talking about? 100 percent right. But what I'm saying is, is that it's like, no, I'm not suing. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to look at this. You know, Drake would have been better. I'm retarded. You know, I wouldn't have sued. You know, I'm stupid. You know, I wouldn't assume if I was Drake team. You know what I told him? Let's ask to leave the label. No, but that. All right. No, no, hit me up. No, but that's why I know if I ask to leave the label, I'm suing what happens then. They afraid of me to my fuck about to leave. We got to make it right. But when you sue, like, I would ask to leave. Yo, let me out of here. Since y'all like, since y'all want to work that and y'all, y'all forgot that I'm the favorite. Y'all didn't protect my likeness. Let me out this deal because he's worth. Drake is probably worth three or four. His catalog is worth about three billion dollars. Like if he sold it on an open market. Agreed. So why are you taking a half a billion dollar advance? You should have did what the weekend did when it leveraged to got a loan, leverage it against it. But you like the machine too, bro. And that's what I'm saying. You can't get mad when the system works for you and when get mad when it doesn't. Like that's my only thing. And like I said, I hate this mall. I'm glad I'm talking about this because I'm a real Drake fan. Like, I love this nigga. Like I remember fighting niggas. Like he's going to be the biggest artist in the world. That's kind of how I got credibility from niggas, because I would be the first nigga when best ever had came out. He's going to be the biggest artist in the world. How the fuck, you know, I could tell you he's half black. He's half Jewish. He's talking directly to women. He has he's no violence in them. He's from Canada. He's clean, clean cut. He's he's going to be the biggest. And you know why the most important thing he can do any genre because he's from Canada. Like Kendrick can't do one dance. He can't unless he's with a UK artist and he's a feature, but he can't make that a song. Drake is the ultimate cheat code in music. You you got tricked out of your spot by the culture. And to me, that was the part that I feel like, don't the culture really fucked you up. They may we're going to do the battle. Drake had nothing to gain from the Kendrick battle. Let's be honest, nothing like you to top you. Oh, I could do is lose. No, why are we doing this again? No, but you can't win for losing the situation. No, he because I sit on this couch. If Drake ducked the like that smoke, I'd be on this couch saying, yo, but the like that smoke came from the first person shooter, right? Then it was a response to him. I think I think what happened with Drake was this. What thing happened? I'm going to tell you what I think happened from the inside. First person shooter. Drake, I don't have no idea. But they have a long history of back and forth. I think that what happened with Drake was that none of his peers could beat him. They knew they couldn't. And it was like in the nigger could do anything he wants. He can do Rick Ross type music. He can do Travis type music. He can do a peak and do a career K-pop song if he wants. He could do whatever he wants because he's from Canada. And I think his peers got a little frustrated with that. So I think they've been trying to bait him. And you know, he probably knocked off everybody girl, right? So, you know, you really want to get him. And it's like Ross can't beat him one on one. It's like we in jail, bro. Like who can beat this nigga? Like who's the one? And I think the only person alive that can beat Drake in the battle was the only person he about is not another human that could touch him nowhere close. But you went against the one nigger you shouldn't have. And then he you took the bait. So when he's doing the slave shit, he's he's leveraging the half. He's leveraging the half you part. That was your superpower. Now it's the culture is looking at you like you don't know no better. Hold on. He don't know. Bro, you went into the Kendrick comes from Compton, my nigga. They burpees, these niggas is burpees lifting weights at five and they backyard. They're three hours behind us, bro. Like what time whatever time it is right now. Though it's 430 right now. It's 1 30 there. That's a whole different. The only thing that's funny about that. No man niggas in Compton that don't do burpees. The niggas be doing the push ups and shit. And I'm like, don't back don't battle him, y'all. Don't battle that guy. Like his friends want to get you. Like, I know to T. I know these guys been around these guys. These guys are guys you don't want to play with. Drake is Canadian, bro. Be Canadian. Another thing I would have said they never have. He's Canadian. Hit me out. Let me tell you about it. He is Canadian, but hit me out. Let me tell you what I mean. Here's what I'm saying. Kendrick has to come to Toronto one time and that's on tour. Drake, you're in LA 100 times a year. It's just I just I just say that. So I'm just saying like when one of y'all get off the train or get off the plane, you never know if it's a TSA one fucking that's cool with somebody from top. It's like you just never know. So I'm like, don't have that fight. If Cole comes in, do it. What if Cole lined them up? What if he told me I just thought about them? That's what if Cole lined them up? I'm I've been saying. What? Because it's like the only thing they kill me if they have Cole joins the battle, it doesn't go that bad for Drake. Because it's three people fighting each other. It's like, you know, I know the definition definition of lining someone up. And I don't think that was the case. Why do you think that Cole would have lined him up in that situation? I think Cole back. OK, so look at it from this standpoint. Drake and J Cole. I think Cole's this was for fun. He's Drake and J Cole are kind of the same person. Yes, right? I agree with you. I agree. You hold hard. Drake is just not a hundred times better. Dreads when you got Dreads, they don't look at it that way. That's true. No. But he grew the Dreads out. Once you got Dreads, the Dreads came out. He was a star. You know that. We will make a full. We will make a full. You got Dreads. If you get it, he's trying to be a full bigot. Oh, yeah, 100 percent. Drake braided his son's hair. I don't know what that means. I love you, bro. I don't know what that means. So who got it? It was funny. It was funny. But my thing is, bro, you listen, if J Cole does the battle, if I'm Drake's team and I'm sitting with him and I'm like, OK, I don't listen, bro, Kendrick is dangerous and we got to go to LA. I'll do it if Cole's involved. Like, let's all hit each other. But if it's going to be you versus him, let's gracefully bow out. No, I don't think Drake thinks that way. I think Cole thought that way. I think Cole lined them up as I'm talking to y'all about. I haven't talked about this because the internet hates me. Like, when I say so, when I say Drake, they like, we hate this, Niggas. I'm like, let me stop talking about it because I'm a fan of his. But I think as we talking about it, I think Cole might have line. If that think about it, if J Cole line, Drake up, that is the greatest lineup in the history of rap music. Niggas, let me think about that. They were all torn together. They probably like, we're going to go at them. Let's do it for the hell of it. Man, you know what? I'm straight. I think you're I think you're giving Cole too much credit in that regard. I really think he just wrapped on first person shooter. Yo, it's the big three. Like, I just think he was. I think Cole is an actual nice. I mean, a good way. A nice guy, but also competitive rapper and just said some shit. And I think it's not a competitive rapper. I'm saying at the time, because when it was time to compete, I didn't want to take. Can I finish? I know. Just take that off of his name. He's not aware. You think at that time? Yes. And I can totally understand Kendrick's point of view. If I'm looking like, you know, y'all, y'all hugging on stage. Y'all need to do a tour together. I could see Kendrick looking at that like, you know, he was in the back yard doing fucking push ups with short G shorts. I want to get together. I can I can totally see Kendrick, especially Kendrick being a very funny. And when I say clown, I mean, the good with Kendrick clown on people. Yeah, for sure. Like looking at that. She like, this is grow. Y'all hugging on stage. She talked about the last 20 years. They get the fuck out of here. That was it. And then doing the like that verse. But that was hip hop. I respect. I respect all that. I'm waiting for him to get. Get the part. I think I think I apologize. Explain that part. I think when it comes to being competitive and here for the sport, Drake and Kendrick are alike. But I think as human beings, Drake and Cole are like. And then when it got to that point, Cole is like, I'm not you, Drake. Because Drake doesn't get enough credit for going after anyone that says a word about him. I give him that's true, which a lot of rappers, Hove included, you just give a little subliminal here. Drake will rap at you right away, no matter who you are. But that's what that's what Ray is saying. I don't I don't understand. Because Drake are similar humans where Kendrick doesn't need to be part of. But my thing is, is the game is the game. And when you in the game and you're rich as Drake, I mean, you've taken a lot of losses, but you're taking way more wins to be as rich as successful as Drake. My whole thing is that's a loss we don't have. If that's a loss that we focus on the battle was these two years ago, we still talk about it because of the lawsuit. If the lawsuit went away, he would drop music. You would have been over him and Kendrick with a hug those stage in Toronto. And it had been over. And I don't think it's because of the lawsuit. I don't think it's that. I think that that was such a big moment that we're going to be talking about that forever. You can't be two years removed from the biggest moment and rap history and not talk about it. Unless you're the biggest artist in history rap. Now, do you feel like music wise? Because, you know, we've gotten some music this year, some good albums, some good music. But there's clearly a gap. There's clearly a. And we say there's no who are the superstars? Yeah. Right. So do you feel like there is clearly a wide gap missing when there's no Drake album music to really place? But we need him. A lot of people don't feel like that. No, they don't feel like that. And then I pay attention to the economy. Like Drake made artists that we might not have taken as serious feel more serious. Like when Drake does a record with Blockboy JB, like you look at him differently, like Drake cosigned him. Like he got a hit, but Drake cosigned him. So it's like you need him because a Drake cosigned is worth three years of a career. And if Drake just cosigned you, that's three years of getting money. Right. Because of that. So I think we need him. I just I just wish he didn't take it so personal. Like if I was you, I would I would have took it personal, but I would have never let them know. I would I would have took Lucian job. Let me tell you something. When Michael Jackson was having problems with Tommy Metola, and he was like, they not going. Oh, y'all not going. Oh, y'all not going to treat me like I'm Michael Jackson. He flew to Japan, met with the Japanese family that owned Sony and got Tommy Metola fired that way. So this dinner table, this motherfucker races, this motherfucker races. He got to go. They fired him. So imagine if you was Drake and you flew to you don't think the owners of Universal, the Vendee, his daughter probably is obsessed with Drake. We'd love to sit at the party, get my hand job under the table. Why are you talking to the dad and then say, yo, bro, I don't like what they did. He would have got way more from it. But my thing was you're acting like a spoiled child when you are spoiled child. Don't act spoiled when you are spoiled. But why spoil the way you fuck you because you've always won. The reason why he's acting like this is because this is his first time. He took a real genuine loss. He's always won because he was better than that. That's my point. I agree with you. But the one time you don't know. Boy, like they gave it to me. No, you're right. I think Drake is incredible. Like the one he was in my top three until the lawsuit. That took him out. Yeah, to me, because. Like, bro, like, you all don't know a lot about me, but like the music industry, like they did me dirty in 2020. They basically set me to die and I could have sued and probably got crazy money. But I know they would have never respected me because they would have thought you need to sue to win. Nigga, I'm going to put a camera on me. That's a hip hop. I'm going to come back to the rest of the world. So I know. But you like what? What are you talking about? But we're in hip hop. You have to play by the rules or don't. And right now, Drake is not playing by the rules of hip hop because he's suing. And I'm not comparing this to the Drake thing. But if you're not going to play by the rules, all the hip hop rules, all the hip hop artists that we love and respect have sued people before. I'm not saying in a rap battle. I want to make that clear. But let's not act like Jay-Z's not sued somebody before. Yes. 50 cents not sued somebody before like that. But I think when Jay-Z sued somebody, everybody feels like it's valid. I think this is the first time when no one feels this lawsuit is valid, except for Drake stands and his friends and him. If I think that the lawsuit is dumb, it's not going to work. It goes away. For seven wise, I think is is there's Drake is more powerful than Lucian Grange. Let me make this known. If I, by the way, if Drake don't notice, he need to notice. He is way more powerful than Lucian Grange ever will be because Lucian only controls a back office. I think he knows that, which is why he sued. I wouldn't have sued. I would have said I would have taken this out. I would get what you said. But I think that's why he's percentage of Universal's income per year. But back to the superstar thing. I think it's one for stars, three stars for sure. But do we I think it's clear now and I laugh because, you know, a lot of my homies, my chat, you know, they text me, yo, your malt, tell Drake we sorry. We need him, bro. 2024, we all lied. Like, you know, it's like it's a lot of that. And I'm just laughing because they're saying, like, we're getting good music and artists are dropping. You know, we're getting some good projects. But to what they're saying, it's clear. Like, bro, we need that. We need sight from him. We don't need music. We need excitement. Drake, he brings excitement. Like, none of these. Like you got to remember, like, yeah, he is a great performer because you watch Hove. Hove, watch Kane. These other people ain't watching nobody. Like they're not watching. These young boys ain't watching Travis saying, I want to be great like Travis. They just getting their money and saying, I made three million dollars last year. You can't tell me I ain't a boss. OK, you know, you need to make three million dollars the rest of your life every year for you to maintain the lifestyle you have right now. That three million will burn out real quick in six months if you ain't got three more coming in. So keep, keep working, keep going. But I don't really think that's the full problem. Like, yeah, Drake is needed here, but Drake is also a legacy act now and was getting probably the longest run, the most dominant run we've ever seen in music. The issue is there's no one else to me. Like Drake, no matter, let's take the battle out of everything. No matter what, Drake was eventually going to get to legacy era. And he's about to be 40 soon. Like we're going to it's still no country for old men to some regards with new music. You take the battle out and Drake is still the biggest artist and no one has a weird perception of him. It's still like, like Drake can't keep the shit moving for the rest of our fucking life. Like it no matter what people would have been like, I don't know if I want the Drake cosine on someone that's 21 and Drake is 40. That's another thing that's talented. Is he going to be honest with you? That's another thing they did when they called his age out. Because you gotta remember Drake in age, like Drake was still like 25 to me, right? And then it was like he's 38, 37. Oh, why does he mess with a 21 year old? Then it becomes like, yo, he gave them to ammo, too much ammo. Like it was like he didn't have to play by the rules. So he didn't. And then once they start focusing on him and they realized how many rules he was allowed to break, I think that's what made all his peers come after him. It's jealousy. I ain't saying this wrong. But if Drake would have went against any other rapper in the world, we would not be sitting here. He only went against Kendrick and that was the only person you shit the one against. That's it. I mean, I would tell you, I would tell you something funny. Let me tell you something funny. I want to tell you the story about five years ago. I'm in the studio with a super producer. I tell you off camera who it is, but I'm not going to say now. And a big songwriter, the producer was huge. And they was arguing Drake versus Tupac. And the producer is from the old school. So he's arguing Pac. And the songwriter is from the new school. He's like, Drake, Drake, Drake. And he starts screaming, you know, Drake, Drake. So the guy got up and punched him in his mouth. Wait, this is a true story. No, Ma, this is a true story. This in the studio. No, no, no, no, this is a true story. By the way, this is five, six years ago. And I'm going to tell when I tell you what it is, I'm going to laugh. But he punches him in his mouth and the producer punches the songwriter. The producer punches the songwriter in his mouth and the songwriter falls to the ground. Like, what are you doing, bro? What are you doing, bro? And the producer stands over him and says, that's the difference between my generation and your generation, nigga. Keep that in mind. Because that's really, that's like, I came from a world where a nigga will punch you in your mouth. Yeah, ma. You say something crazy. You might get punched in your mouth. And he got punched in his mouth. And as soon as you leave, he's like, what are you doing? Can I ask you what the sentence was that got him punched? No, he was. Because it definitely wasn't, yo, hotline bling. No, it wasn't even that. He just was, he was just yelling. Yeah. Like, yo. And the producer is a yell or two. When I tell you, I'm going to be like, oh, yeah, I know how he is. He yells too. So the other guy started yelling, nigga, oh, yo. And he said, what? Yeah. He's just punching in his mouth right in front of everybody. And the nigga just fell to the floor. He said, he was standing over him and I swear to God, he was like, that's the difference between my generation, your generation, little nigga. Little nigga got up, got up. It's like, he ain't gonna hit me no more. He ain't gonna hit me no more. And just walked out and said, he'll never work with me again. That nigga ain't made no hit since. That's songwriter. But the producer is fucking filthy rich. I gotta tell you that story because it was like. There's a metaphor somewhere in this entire thing. The whole point is, is that the whole point is, is that you're going to get punched in your mouth at some point. For sure. And what you do back is going to tell us what generation you from. Are you going to get up and fight like a man? Are you going to walk away? Are you going to sue? That tells us everything. Oh, you sue. Oh, you my son age. Oh, you file. You must be about you about to fight. Okay. You it's just the generations. But I get what you're saying, but I just think that's your way. Your name also sued. Yeah, it's a difference. I just think that again, because we we hold Drake to this. You got to be hip hop all the way through, right? Because you saying that if you can't sue because that's not hip hop, that's not our culture. That's not. But it's like we give everybody else a pass. They could do shit. That's not hip hop. And it's like, nah, it's so good. You know, Drake, what J. Cole did is not hip hop. You're right. In my opinion. I agree. But nobody wants to call that out. Well, what he did is oh, no, he wants to protect his family. And you know, he was he saw that it was about to get ugly and nasty. I saw niggas die over right. Well, I agree. What was the number one sneaker from the 90s? Jordan's. Barkley has sneakers. Barry Barnes has sneakers. D.R. Sanders has sneakers. But why was Jordan number one? Because he was winning. And that's my thing. Like, like in my mind, if Drake is the only person, the last 20 years have belonged to Drake. For sure. Like, like you're like, one year you take a health care. But it wasn't it wasn't again, I think everybody, you know, it wasn't the music. I think it was more so what he knows that the labels were doing. And like you said, he's more powerful than Lucian. So he's challenging. He only knows because they told him things evolve. And I'm just having to be a rabbit. And I'm only telling you all to the biggest business owners because they told him. And they only told him because he's on their side to. Yeah. Once he used, you know, I tell people, remember the whole Ryan Coogler deal thing and everybody's making a big deal of his deal. You know what pissed me off about it? Ryan Coogler is not the first person to get that deal. He's the first black person. Right. Spielberg been having that deal. It just never when black people get it, it becomes a big fucking deal. Like, oh, yeah. Oh, it's a turning point. We get it. So I was on him say, it's like he just he just shouldn't have went into it. And if he did, he should have took what came with it, kept him moving. He set up with Kendrick and then kept it going like. Oh, hell, yeah. Set up with him. Let us make it. Yeah, I don't know. Do y'all think it's wild that Tommy Motola was racist and gay? He was gay. I thought he was married to Mariah. He's gay as fuck. Is he? Bisexual. If you know what told the story, how he became in power. He he he was he he's a he's a smart motherfucker because he only managed hauling oats. That's all he had. And then Mariah. No, he signed her. OK, and then he married her. OK, yeah. Tommy Motola is not gay, according to the D.I. I. All right. All right. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, it says he's a heterosexual. All right. He is a heterosexual male music executive. That's what he wants you to know. That's what you say. Ha ha ha ha. We we we were talking off, Mike, and you had the statement that rap is a joke. I know you didn't mean rap is a joke, but I did want you to expound a little bit on on that outside of anything we talk about. Drake and Drake, I stress that rapper should treat rap like WWE. Rap is WWE. Wwe proves that men just want to be entertained. Like all those guys are friends behind closed doors, but we don't care. We love the characters. And I just think that if you play more to that, so like, say, for example, if all this was happening and we knew Kendrick and Drake was somewhere laughing at us, we would see it differently, right? That's what I mean by WWE. Meaning like, say if y'all got something going on and I'm like, who has got something going on? And then you find like, let's just do something against each other. I don't care. Like, and now, the sun we're in the headlines and it's like, we're making each other bigger than ever for the moment to pick job records of sales. We all won. We ain't really beefing behind closed doors. It's over. Like, who cares? Well, I mean, that's happening on the exact same. We talk about Lucian. I mean, his. You sons are on the three. Lucian has done monopoly. He has all the park place everywhere when you're putting your son in your rival as the head of that. But here's the thing. You son is six nine and he's beefing with somebody on your son's label. Like, it's what people don't know. Everyone's laughing behind the scenes. But here's what people don't know about his son. His son, Lucian didn't want his son to go to Warnor. He didn't want that. He just couldn't get the deal approved by the board because it was his son. When his son wanted, the boy was like, we're not giving that to your son. No, he's not getting that. So Warnor gave it to him. That's why he couldn't get it. He didn't place his son there. He didn't. But I think that that also is like, look at Lucian. Lucian is probably about the exit one. I mean, universal right now. He might be like, that's what I'm saying. Like, he knows it. My thing is, Drake, if you mad at him, just don't say nothing. Get him on our back end. Fuck his wife or something. Like, I'm dead. That's what got him in the 20. He's like, hey, I would listen. My point is this. I'm going to get your ass back somehow. Nigga, I might not get you back. I can't beat you over there, but I'm going to get you back somehow. Drake can get his wife, fuck his daughter, the dog is daughter. Who cares? Like, do something to hurt him, but not sue him. That's all I'm saying. But then y'all called Drake Corny when he posted Lucian's daughter or whoever the fuck it was when it's out. It don't matter what Drake. Anything Drake do right now, they're going to say Corny because of lawsuit. Fair. And that's that's what I mean by like, I hate that he did that. Because it's like that that follows him. Yeah. It's like, bro, you he too grateful that the following. But it's no choice because of how the culture is. It's like you could go 999 days being the best man on earth. Good. That 1000 day you have a day off. They turn on you. Yeah. That's fucked up. I feel like I'm Drake. I wouldn't even drop music no more. Hey, well, yeah. Listen, that was that was another thing I was going to get into. Like, do we feel like like should Drake even drop music anymore? Listen, man, I told you just let us suffer. Like just let us keep this. I told you what I'm going to tell you all this. I can't if I own the 767 plane, nobody can get me to respond. I will fly my plane over by your fucking house. Call you and tell you, look outside. I'm going to pay the FCC fine. They don't give a fuck how much it costs. I want to just ride by and show you what I could do what I want. Like I can't be for nobody. I'll let the fighter jet fly by to make sure I will not be for nobody ever in history. I feel like unless I'm before another thing, I want to private jet like mine. But if that's it, nobody's on this level. But that's why. But that's why I respected because you see how you say that. Yeah. But because he he's hip. He cares about the culture. He carries that to a different level. Like you say something to me. I'm coming at you. Yeah. To me, I think that's more commendable. Because he doesn't have to respond. He's at a level. But if he didn't as a culture, we would have all sat here. I would have said I would have killed him for that. I'm saying this on camera. I'm saying this on camera. Talking to you has made me feel more empathy for Drake than I ever felt. Why is that? Because you're right. It's like that's what I that's what I mean. I hate when people take my words out of like he's done. He's done if he doesn't drop. Like, by the way, anybody is done if they don't drop. Yes, that's true. You don't think Rihanna is a little scared? Just a little like what if they don't like this shit? Like, I know they anticipate it, but once I put it out, there's no more anticipation. So you don't think part of us like when she was in that every year album cycle, I was on every album. I love that cycle. Rihanna dropped the album in 10 years. Like, of course, when she comes, she nervous. I want to play them games. I'm scared to death. Everybody can listen to my music. And as much as I push back on wall with this entire Drake and Kendrick thing, which we can end that part. You talk about Superducers, which I'll tell you off, Mike. Yeah. Superducers that is very much tied to that side. So I'm personally pulled me aside. He whispered my ear and said, oh, it's right. Mm. Mm. But see, this isn't a thing, no, but because I've had the phone calls, but I don't know. It's a lot of shit. I'm not even bringing it. I know the internet won't believe anything I'm saying, doll. Yeah, your favorite producer over there was like, you're more right. You know what it is? You know what it is? The battle they not like us. Not like us is really the song that kind of pushed it because it was the first hit in the battle. Everything else we was just listening to, waiting for what was next. Not like us was the first record that they left. And like nine months later, we were still bumping it. So it's like, we forgot it's a Drake. This is just a bop in our head. It's like Meek Mill Dreams of Nightmares like play that shit. We want to jump to it. But that's that's where Drake mismanaged the entire thing. Another amazing MC said they're they're both MCs. Drake ran into a writer, not an MC, a writer. He wrote the script of what was going to happen, whereas Drake thought he was about dealing with Kendrick. He thought because Drake is from hip hop. Don't don't get it twisted. Drake is a fucking MC was rapping on Dilla beats when he came out. Drake thought because I'm going against Kendrick, I'm about to do my rap shit. I'm about to have every on Tondra. I'm going to do everything. And Kendrick knew that was coming and said, oh, now I'm going your world. Don't make a hit. You think I'm about to do this rap? You would you know, it was going to be felt like it was going to be felt like you know, but that was the Okie doke. That's why Kendrick was brilliant in his strategy. That's what I'm saying. It's like the OK. Yo, the lyrics on the not like us is like the worst lyrics. I mean, outside of the third verse, but bruh, they're awful. Bruh, I just because he knew Drake was going to be like, yo, let me go try to outwrap Kendrick because I think Drake is just a formal MC as Kendrick is. But like, nah, if I'm Kendrick and I'm a clown and I mean that in a good way and I'm a writer and I know that Drake's going to try to rap with me. Now, let me just go do. Let me go do not like us. Can I tell you what it felt like? You know, it felt like it felt like he got lined up in the hood, right? Like slap boxing, you know, slap boxing. Like slap boxing, you get in the ring, right? And then you slap and then all of a sudden he punches you. They like, oh, the fuck? Now they like, keep going. You like, hold on, man, we're supposed to be slap boxing. This thing just pushed me. Keep going. Now you got to fight back. No, I said all the time that no matter what, I think the coach was going to say Drake. They lined them up. If he would have with Terory said, made a hit or made us dance. Yo, it's to go. We're trying to make you dance. It's to go. We're trying to make a hit. Can't win for losing and Drake's. So he would have no matter like so to end it, like you said at the top when you're at the top, all you can do is lose. That's how I did it. You know, I understand it, but I respect it because he kept it. Pop, he stayed in the battle. No matter what, he didn't apologize. He didn't back down from nobody. Yeah. Got to respect. If you take an L and he was in the ring, I respect. OK, one question I'm asking you that you might know the answer to. Come just curious. Does he plan as a classic. OK, no, I hope it is. But my question is, does he plan on dropping Iceman while the lawsuit is still pending? Or do you think he's going to wait for the lawsuit to end and then drop Iceman? Because it's hard to drop Iceman and get it to work with the same people you're suing. That's what I'm asking. Still Drake, though. Yeah, it's still Drake. I think no matter what, it's going to work. The the registers will ring. It's going to be number one. He's going to have. You don't think they'll play dirty games and to compress him to maybe shadow ban him to make it with him? Of 100, instead of 500. You'll try. But it's this album or so anticipated, it's going to break through. They're going to try. They're going to try. But even like Nokia, you saw the dirty games with that. And I hate that I'm like on the Drake defending side of this, but I'm just an objective human being. Nokia was a huge hit. That would have been crazier if they weren't playing dirty games to block that record. Like Nokia would have been. You what did I miss? That's it. I thought what I missed was hard. And these are like, that's not it. I'm like, but see, here's the one thing what happened when he lost the battle. You gave us reason to question you. We never question you. Like when what I like when I was with his no left foot step, that shit wouldn't work today. Half of his records won't work. Hotline. Like that's my point. It was we didn't. It was Drake. So we all accepted it. Now we're like, how you feel about this? No, there was just so much going on at the time that left foot step. All that tic-tac shit he was doing during the pandemic. I didn't care because I already know he has one of the greatest catalogues of all time. If you want to do left foot step with a fucking shikes, do you want to your crib during pandemic? I don't hold that again. I really don't. I got you. I thought it was stupid. Like, but like, I don't really care. But what did I miss? I thought that was hard. I know. But at that point to your to what you're saying, it felt like a clean slate to some degree. We're looking at a new Drake. You got to come with something crazy and no key. It was fire. I just think the labels did their their smear campaign during it in the same regard. But I do want to get off this to your point that you've said a bunch of times that we've also said, I think that battle ruined hip hop. It killed hip hop. It ruined everything. So I don't even want to talk about it anymore. It hurts me to talk about it now because I might not ever get hip hop again, the way we had it. I said, after like that, we could pull up the episode. I said, let's all enjoy this now, because this is the last time we're going to see. Yeah, I agree. I think this was before the battle. I said, like that. This is the last time we're ever going to see it pop again. Because you know what it is. No superstars is done after this. Yeah, it's it's it's hip hop. Always the cool guy. So it's like, remember rock was running in the 80s and the 90s and actual roles and what was the job? It was like so different. And then all of a sudden it was lame. They costumes look lame. Everything about it was like played out. And I think that that's where rap is right now. We just don't realize it yet because our kids still look like the rappers. But our kids are all famous now. Like everybody's famous now. So I just think it's a I'm afraid for hip hop. I feel like until I see a label that has like a top dog type CEO, we dead. I think it's going to go through the same cycle as as every genre really has and just go to legacy and there'll still be some young acts there. But we're now seeing because hip hop is so young, we're seeing the nozzes in the JZ's age in a cool way. Yeah, like if I mean, obviously nozzes an investor in Ring Camera. He doesn't need going to work. But if we needed him to be what Bruce Springsteen is, as far as that, like my dad, yeah, go to MetLife. Love it. Bruce is the coolest. They love Bruce. He's like the cool. The boss. Yes, the boss. He could be he could wear a fucking button up shirt. Just sit there with a guitar. Yeah. And he'll be cool. If nozzes needed to do that, I think hip hop is starting to age that way. Where I think K.R.S. and Kane didn't get that that opportunity because they were knocking the door down. Yeah. At the time. I think if Elvis lived, I don't think he would have been this cool legacy act that you know he would have fucking it. Because because you get a chance to get out of shape, get the hairs to get gray, stomach to grow out and become like you don't look. Yeah, but now but now you'll get grateful dead. Led Zepp like people that can now tour in rock as legacy acts. I should even kiss will take the makeup off. Go do the thing. Yeah. Now we're seeing rap do that because it's such a young genre. So I don't think it's over in that regard. Legacy is just starting. OK, so this whole is doing roots picnic and that's going to be old music. OK, I'm going to tell you what I think because you're right. I'm not saying hip hop is over. I'm saying hip hop, the genre of music is done. I think hip hop has you got to remember, first of all, like my kids in the culture, like probably if you had kids, they were the culture. Right. Like you have kids. No. So my kids when Drake and Kenzie was dropping, my son is the one that called me when family matters dropped. Yo, dad, it's not going to like my son is 16 at the time. It's like we we in the culture together now. When I was a kid, my mother was listening to Anita Baker and Luther Van Charles, and I was listening to rock him. Now me and my kids are listening to the same thing. So I think hip hop has an opportunity to spread. But we so used to we trying to go through the roof and it's like, no, there's no more roof. The ceiling is up there. All we can do is just populate the floor we are right now. It's going through the same cycle of every genre. And unfortunately, hip hop is hitting the worst time in history where music is meeting commerce. So in 20 years, Kendrick is going to do the 30 year anniversary damn tour and everyone will be there. Yeah. But as far as the young version of keeping the genre going, I don't know where that's going because everything's content based. And now you're running into Lear Cohen, who's the head of YouTube music, saying, we're not focused on songs. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it's it's fucked not because of a hip hop reason. It's fucked because of the. But but you know what I say to the playing field that we're in, but hip hop will live forever. Hip hop is always going to do a tour at some point. Like hip hop has always been the driver. I can't think of anything that pop music made popular. Right. Like a sneaker, like when Will Smith goes men in black and all of a sudden we sell three million Ray Bang glasses in the the following few months, like hip hop is the only like let's be clear. Like let's just say it like the black man is the coolest man on earth. Right. Any table at a black man is attic man too. No, no. Yeah. For sure. But I say any table that a black man is at that table. And if there's there's eight other races there, they all look cooler because a black man is there. So like that's kind of like our currency. So, you know, I just ran on. But like black men are we to me hip hop is our extract. And I feel like your man, he's got to come on board, bro. Like I love I love Drake. I just I just wish that he understood that it's not personal. Like you from Canada, from from Canada. So you don't know how we do in the States. In the States, we join each other. Like I'm a snap on you from the beginning to the end. Like my best friend, the first thing he said to me was a big head motherfucker. Well, you think you're going and he joined me to whole walk home from the school bus. And I just don't think Drake understands that in America, we're going to laugh at you from time to time. I know, I think he understands that, but ain't nobody joking with pedophile. Oh, that's true. We've never joked with that. You can't tell me one time growing up, somebody that is so chested a molester. That's so true. When you ever heard that. That's true. You don't play with that. That's not something we play with. I'll tell you plays with that, though. The nigga that I want you to get in the ring and fight him. That's why he did it. Listen, I get it. That's what's he get back. I get it. You slap the dude that's been in the back lifting weights doing burpees that can't wait to fight somebody. I understand. Yeah, I was the problem. He just we can wait to fight somebody. He needed that more. No, but that was the problem with Drake. The entire thing he knew he said it. Oh, I know you got a thousand records sitting in the hard drive. Why would you fuck with that person? That person waiting to do this. Because I'm a rapper. Exactly. I'm a rapper. And I ain't talking about. Just leave it. You had tummy issues. Just take a break. I'm not ducking. No smoke. I was I respect. I know, I know, I respect that as well. Yeah. No, we're in now. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock, Bet Mall. That's Florida Sportsbook. Everybody knows that it's tourney time, March Madness. And my favorite thing to do at this time of year is fill out my bracket and get mad. Yeah, but does give me some opportunity to win some money at the end of the day. 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Icon Award recipient John Mellencamp, Innovator Award recipient Miley Cyrus with performances by Alex Warren, Kaylani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Ray, TLC, Salt and Pepper and Invoke. Plus, Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. I cry, I cry, I cry, Elizabeth Taylor is having a real deep it's for all. Also, Gold Medal Olympian, Alyssa Liu, Neo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glazer, Sombra, Weiser and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th, at eight seven central and listen on I Heart radio stations across America and the Free I Heart app. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars. And now I guess also as the co-host of the Away End, a brand new World Soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcón, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love on our new podcast, The Away End. We'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel Alarcón was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. Ray, you have posted a rapper that we love and supported for a long time here, LaRussell. You posted him a lot. You've talked about him a lot. Yeah. How have you felt? Outside of him signing with Rock and then the Lil Wayne comments. You're having sent. I just want to make that clear. Yeah, you are. I just want to make that. Just so you feel comfortable on the couch. Everyone here is having said I just want to make that. Make that very clear. How have you as someone that has coached a lot of people's careers? Yes. And we love LaRussell so much. That's why I like love him. I hate that he's going through some shit, even though he's he's a human being and be fucking up the same way I do. With the attention he has on him now, has he been handling things? OK, you know, I think he has. As I just want someone to put him in like, you know, just give him a noogie and be like, yo, you are you. Shut the fuck up. OK, so let me tell you the greatest thing an artist can do is draw a line in the sand and say, I'm over here. That's the greatest thing artists can do. Like that means, you know, your audience, you know, who you making it for. You know, everything. So to me, LaRussell to me is he's finally drawing his line. He had it like he's like so like he's saying things like I'm not going to allow that Hitler heaven sent. I understood where he was coming from, but he has to understand that that's like a white man saying every KKK man is heaven sent. And we will be offended by that. So I get what you're trying to do, but just because you're trying to do good doesn't mean that you don't hurt people. So to me, that was the only thing he said. Well, I was like, the little Wayne thing I agree with, right? I just I think that little Wayne is a great rapper. But I don't think that little Wayne. I don't even want to say this because it becomes bad. I'm just saying little Wayne can rap. That's what he's great at rapping. I think that we like other people because of the character they also play. Like, I don't just like Jay-Z as a rapper. I like the character he plays. I don't like Ye as a rapper. Though I like Wayne as a rapper. I don't like the character he plays where he's like, I don't like. Think about it. He's like Black Lives Matter. What's that? Like he's just never been with us. He's always kind of been like, ma'am, I sit in my own corner and do my own thing. And he's been able to get with that. But I don't think that's not why I would ever put him in that same space. And so when someone like LaRussell says, who got to remember? Listen to this. I love Poc more now than I did when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I loved him. But as a man, I really love him because I'm like, man, this man was talking some shit. He was 22, 23 talking shit. That still affects me today. So what I'm saying is to look at that from a Russell standpoint, you getting older, you becoming more of a man. And now you're looking at your idols like, and that's what he did. I wish he would have did this. So I know people are judging him, but that's what happens when you grow. You got to think about this whole probably grew up loving Big Daddy Kane and rock him. But at some point, you got to measure yourself against them and be like, no, I don't like what they did. I like what I'm doing. And I think that's what LaRussell is. And I think growth hurts no matter what. Any if you think about the time where you probably got to the furthest, you was probably going through the most you've ever went through in that moment. So growth hurts anyway, bro. So to me, LaRussell is just growing. And now there's a line in the sand where everybody was behind him. Like we love him. But now there's people over here that don't like him. And those people get that's what drives an artist. Go back to the WWE thing. You like my favorite wrestler of all time is Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's the greatest heel ever. I don't like a baby face. I like heels. So it's like you can play different. You can play different sides of the fence and still win. And yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah, we are saying the same thing with the LaRussell part. Forget what he raft about. Forget the Wayne shit, because I agree with the Wayne thing as well. Like I kind of looked at Wayne and Ray was mad Wayne didn't get the Super Bowl. No, no, no. Happy real. I don't think Wayne, I don't think Wayne should do the Super Bowl because his Wayne should never do his vocals are so hard to follow. Like imagine him singing a million. Like if they get that, they had a problem with Kendrick singing. Damn. And we imagine I mean, like it would be out of just don't think he should do the Super Bowl. Wayne should not do. Yeah, I don't think so. And that's OK. That's OK. Everybody's not meant for the Super Bowl. Like the Super Bowl is everybody. It's not just one corner of the world. Because a little Wayne deserves it. And so does Kit Rocky, because he's that he's a little way into that world. Right. Well, I mean, Kid Rock did his own. He did his own. He did his own. That's where I mean, he should be able to. Yeah. I didn't even see bad bunny. I saw you. So you saw the point. Marlin. Yes. But now with the Russell shit, I guess it's just interesting to see how somebody is finally dealing with not being a darling. I love that. That's why I'm observing this, the Russell shit. And we've clowned him after he said that shit. But we support and love the Russell. I'm just observing somebody finally not being a darling in how they handle that. Like it's not just a woman thing, but I judge anyone how they deal with attention. Yes. That's a bit of a tension. You said attention. That's really I like that. That's how people deal with attention is kind of how I view them. Yes, that's that's who you are. Like, yeah, I know who you are once once you have a. Once you got the light. Yes, like, how are you in this regard? Now, I'm not saying that in LaRussell's case, because the Russell's had a bunch of attention on him. I'm looking at now how you deal with negative attention because you have been nothing but as rightfully so. You started this shit in your backyard. You deserve every bit of flour you've gotten in this entire time. But that's not how the world works. Now you say one motherfucking thing wrong, which is kind of true about Wayne. Or you say that dumb ass shit. I'm not judging the Russell's based off that dumb ass Epstein shit, because the Russell has had 10,000 hours of amazing rhymes that makes sense. You're just an idiot in that we understand what you were saying. Stop it. Yeah, I'm judging the Russell right now of how he's dealing with negative pub. What you think? Do the whole thing. Um, I think that's what separates everybody. I think Jay Z got killed. I said, what do you think? I came out and we saw how he pivoted and said we doing streets is watching. Yeah. He knows how to pivot once you finally get some negative shit. Yeah. To me, that defines what an artist is. And I'm finally judging the Russell. How are you going to figure out for the first time not being the darling independent rapper? How we moving them? Because it was stupid. Stop trying to explain. I don't know what heaven sent me. You know, it was dumb. It was dumb. Yeah, it's not profound. I'm sorry. What you say was not profound. It's retarded. It's cool. We all do. We all miss the mark. Come on. I'm never judging somebody. That's one thing, but the whole shit. How are you going to move from me? We all miss the mark. But to me, I think the Russell is fine because the Russell is a household name in the hip hop space. And none of us probably know any of his music. Which means we hear him talk. That we don't hear him rap. We know what he does. Like, I know a few of his songs, but I'm saying you can't. The Russell puts out 80 songs a year. Like he has a whole different model, right? That was my first conversation with Rest in Peace, the whole vein. Yeah, which was his manager at that point. So I can't keep up with his output. Yeah, he's putting out so much music. I'm paying attention more to what he's doing in the backyard and what he's saying. Saying I was trying to keep up with it. He was putting out like 10 EPs in like six months. Yeah, six months. So he's playing a different game. He's treating music like a like I want to say like a hustle, but he's treating it like it's his trap and he's playing a different game. And I don't think this the Hitler thing is going to it's going to blow over because he's not going to stand on it like yeah, did. Like he's not going to stand in it. He's like he's talked about it because remember what you said he said. He said, I was just trying to say they haven't said because everybody that's born is having said that they become evil. But you play in a game with words that can hurt people. And that's why I'm like, he missed it. But he's he's acting like he's saying something profound. And we talked about the last episode, even though I disagree with what you said. At least you started a conversation that came from an actual perspective. Yes. Point of view. You just saying everybody's having said like you arguing with us being mad at that it's like, though, you didn't say anything profound. That was the first time you know what I said. You have no perspective on this. I'm going to be honest with you. Larusso, I don't think the little Wayne thing was. I didn't think he thought I was going to do what it is because I think he was telling his truth and that was unfortunate. But I think this time is the first time what he he's learning. Like this is his first time he put his foot this mouth and he's like, oh, because they're not going to he's going to lose something for that. Like he's probably already lost him. He's probably already lost some money. We don't want you to do a show. Probably a bar misfit. He was going to get 25,000. He probably missed some money already because of it. But I just. To me, this is the first time we're going to see how he handles it. And I think he's a great talker. I just think that he should say, I fucked up, keep it going. But he has this silly side to him. We'll be like, what's wrong? Let's talk. I don't think he should do that this time. I think he should just let it go. I'm on the opposite side of it, only because the Russell was so self built. I don't think nobody that supports the Russell's music that knows his music will stop listening. Of course, I don't think nobody that has been to his backyard, the Pagola will not go anymore. I don't think that the Russell loses anything. I think people that really don't care about any of the shit the Russell was saying are the only ones that all of a sudden care about with the Russell. I don't think anybody cares about this shit the way they try to pretend they care about it. Like I think that fc shit was the dumbest thing ever. I'm sitting here. I'm a little Russell supporter. Yeah, same here. I thought it was stupid, but it would never change my mind. It was not human change. I'm here to support the Russell. It's something that needs to be said. But all right, there is not one celebrity that has ever lived that I agree with everything they said and did. Nobody, no person here. Yeah, we live in society now where we think if we don't agree, that means we don't support. And I think that we got to lose that. Like it's OK to disagree. He says something dumb. Everybody does. Everybody does something dumb. It's how they recover afterwards that we should focus on. And to me, I think he deserves a benefit of the doubt because he's been out. He's been talking and he ain't fucked up. Literally, he ain't said nothing crazy. And but also let's also be a beautiful example of how you should move. Let's also be clear. The Russell is he's going to learn this because he's with Hove now. He's under the microscope. Everything he do, they don't think rock nation. Tell me that's the difference. That's the difference. So I think that I think that he if he's smart, he turned it on because he's like, I'm a rock nation. They don't think I'm they go that might as well do some mafia or some type shit anyway, because I don't think I can see him doing that. You know what's so fucked up about the position the Russell's in is what he said, the Wayne thing. I know for a fact that there were people backing that clip for a smear campaign because he was signed to Jay. Now, with that said, with his f-steam thing, where it's catch 22 with the Internet, now you have that already. I'm signed here. Now I'm going to smear campaign on X Twitter because I'm signed with him. Nobody give a fuck about that Wayne. Yeah, nobody really cared about that Wayne. Yeah, it was a smear campaign behind it for sure. Yeah. Now I say something about Epstein and now the smear campaign is Jay told him to support. Like, how can you even and I'm saying what he said was stupid, but it's now, to your point, being under the microscope with everything rock nation. That's why I laugh. People think rock nation has way more power than it does. And I'm telling you, the people against rock nation are doing way more smear campaigns than rock nation is doing. Y'all, I could tell you, I give you some insight on rock nation from that standpoint. Jay Z is hated amongst his peers because he's the only one that's famous. So like he Jay Z. What do you consider his peers when you say the CEOs of the labels Lucian Lucian, the C like they all are trying to kill his name because he beats them every time. And y'all got to spend two million to get with Jake. It's been half a million to get because he's Jay. So they're going to always hate on us. So Jay Z. I remember being in the staff meeting with the CEO of a company. Swear to God, just says in front of everybody. I say something about Jay and they was like, nobody wins when they do business with Jay Z. Like in front of like, you don't remember this like this is CEO of a major label talking in front of 50 of his employees. Nobody wins in business with Jay Z. That's why we don't do business with him. He's the only one that wins. That's how he is. And it's like, why the fuck would you say that? And like, but that's the shit we talking about. You have to somehow discredit him because the work. Let me tell you something. If rock nation gets one win, the big three on trouble. One not not this version of rock nation. I'm not talking about what hold leading. J Cole. This my look. I'm talking about this staff, this team, if they break something. Now, I mean, it's over. Title was the start of that. And that's why I. I respect Jay Z for so many things. Starting title to me was the most gangster shit he's ever done in his entire that was a bad move fucking like more. Why? Because it didn't work out because the reason I thought it was a bad move was because the way he did it. Oh, the marketing plan was the worst thing that's ever existed. So if Jay Z would have started title and said, I'm going to create a fun artist going to eat from it, everyone type thing. But Jay Z did what he has a famous line, less is more. Right. So he had. So you pick handpicked the people you want to be on this table with you. And now you got 12 of the biggest artists in the world. But the other nine hundred and ninety five that are out there like we never fucking with you. We never and title paid more than everybody else. But it was like, it's just about to say, you think about that. You know, the type of pain artists out. Bro, way more than anybody about this. Why an artist not telling everybody to listen to the music on title? Well, because Jay Z picked the artist that he wanted to represent title. And that was the people that I was ushered in Nicki Minaj's. The people that signed the paper, Alicia Keys, the people that owned it. OK, I I I I I Prince, I think Prince was. No, Prince was there. I think Prince was at the the release, the press release. I know Madonna. I think he may have passed like maybe the same year. Yeah, but I know Madonna. I think Prince was on stage. Yeah. Um, hear me out. Worst marketing plan ever when they had everybody on stage there, because as a consumer, we looked at it like, why are all these millionaires complaining? It was the same way when Metallica did Napster. And it was like, so say it like I was. Metallica was right. I was downloading the fuck out of Kazaa. Fuck Metallica. I'm like, I know kids. I got money. I'm downloading this shit. Fuck you. The marketing plan as as far as that of what it looked like to consumers, not what it was. I'm talking about what I'm a consumer. So a bunch of millionaires up here telling me they not making enough money, which is true, true. But Jay at that exact same time was also dealing with Apple about to start Apple Music and knew that Apple Music was going to start to do their exclusive deals. They did one with Chance. They did one with Drake. Everyone knew that these DSP wars were starting out as exclusive deals. You have to pay for my app to get that. So Jay, being the genius that he is, is saying, yo, Nicky, ever, I will give you steak in this and we'll put all of our albums through this entire thing. And you know who ironically is the only one that ever stuck to that? Not even Jay. Jay didn't even stick to it. Who Beyonce. Hmm. You couldn't get lemonade off time. Beyonce is the only one that stuck to that motherfucking deal. If everyone stuck to that deal that was on that stage, we would be having a different conversation. And I don't know the backs. I don't know why they didn't. And it's not my business to know that. I agree. I'm saying what Jay was trying to do was one of the most gangsta shit I've ever seen in my life going against the big three. Here like you go on against you go on again, Spotify and the whole country of fucking Sweden at this point. If he would have gotten everyone to stick to that exclusive plan, he didn't even stick to it. I was going to say, but why didn't he? Because they know his wife. It was the only one that stuck to it. That's real. No, you I just think I just think that that was a bad move. I think the way he did it was bad. I think he's still I wish he didn't sell it because I think that I'm glad he I mean, at that point right now to get behind title because Spotify is kind of like the more the universal now. Right. I hear you, but consumers are based on routine. And at that point, everyone was scrambling to. Hey, are you on Spotify or you on Apple? Title would have been the time to do that. If all of our favorite artists only had exclusive albums on that point. We're too programmed. This is my phone. Yeah, I got Apple Music Spot. If you bring me a new DSP, I'm not signing up for it. But I'm just not what every artist said to you. What if every artist said we don't we know you don't care where you listen to music? Spotify, Apple, Twitter, whatever. But if you listen on title, it means more to us. So please go to title. I think. No, that's where you get Patreon. That's where you get those those paywall things that are important. I'm saying Jay was trying to do something that we complain about. Why don't artists have unions? Yeah, why don't everyone do it? Jay tried to do that and no one stuck to the plan. And again, I think Jay had horrible marketing with that. Yeah, that's my don't have my guys with the masks on telling me they're poor. Like, I just I'm cool. We're poor. We're here, which you guys are all private jets. We don't want to feel sorry for none of you. Yeah, like, I don't want to see Diplo tell me about the shit. I'm just saying that he tried and that time is past. It's over. It's Spotify and Apple. And that's just the world that we live in the same way that it went from HBO. Go now it's Max. Now it's everything is just falling under the same. Everybody trying to figure out what they're going to be. We don't know yet. Everybody's like, we I don't think the music business, though, we still try to figure out. I think Iceman is going to tell us. Well, I want to wrap up that. I cannot wait until this album come out because I want to have a conversation with you, bro. Let me say I'll come anytime. Y'all come to Atlanta. We follow each other like, bro, I love this shit because y'all are purists. Yeah. No matter what, I like purists. Like, keep it pure. Absolutely. Don't don't dilute the waters for yourself because that's cheating. Like, just keep it pure, bro. Like, as long as it's pure, everybody got a chance to win. It's like sports. Yeah. It's like, just get everybody get a chance to win. Don't just cheat for one person. We're going to have a good we're going to have a conversation. Once this Iceman album drops, I'm coming back. Once everything happens, please, like I can't I can't wait to sit next to Ray and then have another conversation about, you know, everything that has transpired. And you know, even the Bronx on the low. Really? Patterson projects. No, I want the PS 18. I graduated. I went to IS 183 Middle School, Jiggen High School. I left the Bronx when I was 12 right after my 12th birthday. Oh, wow. And I don't like that. Atlanta. I love. Let me tell you something. I love I was in New York, New York, New York from 12 to 14. When I came to some of that biggy dropped, juicy drop. That summer, biggie had New York on fire. I came to see my family. I was New York all day. I hang around my cousins. They like, you old country motherfucker. I was like, damn, I'm representing the young country ass nigga. That was like, shit, I might as well be from Atlanta. This y'all ain't going to represent. I can't represent like new. And I would say, bro, if you go to Patterson projects right now, you might run into a cousin of mine, Mike, one out of a million chance, maybe. But if you go anywhere in Atlanta, Georgia, and you say my name, they all see me grind. That's why I claim Atlanta, because that's why I became a man. OK, but I did see the Bronx hustling. I do come from some. Actually, you got some early, early DNA years and. But I tell people, I think I'm great at music because I grew up in the in New York in the 80s. So I remember I seen the block party turn into hip hop being what it is. And then I left Atlanta for Atlanta in 91. And now I'm watching Atlanta flourish. And I'm also seeing New York flourish. So I had that point. But I wanted to tell you something real quick. So I'm the creative director of the cut. It's a haircut. And I appreciate you guys. You know, so we got a jacket for you, but I want to offer. I got this for you. I got one in my pocket. I'm going to show you all. I'm going to offer this. I'm going to get this to my guys. Only hold on. I think I know here go. Free haircut for a year. Oh, wow. For you, free. I'm worried for you too. So all you got to do is I don't have a tough cut. It's fine. No, no. But I'm saying as many times you want to get your haircut. That's your gold card. All you got to do, you can say with the same barber. All you got to do is tell your barber the download the app. He should have ready. We got 300,000 barbers on the app. Time to download the app. Every time you get a haircut, he pressed a button. You said it with him. He gets paid. You don't have to cover nothing. So yeah, free haircut's on me. I just want to thank you all for having me on your show. Fire, man. I appreciate it. Oh, yeah, because I'm going to get I'm going to get my barber. You're about your brother, by the way, the spy. And by the way, listen, and I'm going to tell you, if you all shout it out, you know, time to time, I shout it from time to time. We might give you another year and another year. Like, come on, brother. Like, I don't want to do something in the community. Give haircut to your neighborhood. Anything with haircuts, barbering. Call us. We got they clown me a lot because my barber is also J. Cole's barber. And by the way, here and we have you could do house calls to. OK, yeah, I don't know if you out of town anywhere, you go anywhere. You need a haircut. I'm going to fuck you in Africa. Wherever you go, use that. Barber going to find you. Come cut your hair on us. The cut. The cut. And if my barber signs up for this, I could use that. He probably already on there. But all they got, all they got to do is sign up for that. And and when you get his haircut, he gets paid. All your money going to pay him. Yeah. Yeah. All right, cool. This is dope. Oh, no. Thanks. Thanks for having me, man. I just want to appreciate you all for having me. Ray, I appreciate you. We're going to talk to you again soon, man. Please come back. Absolutely. We definitely want to go on your platform. Listen, anytime you're out in Atlanta, you know, my shit is y'all come pull up. I'm coming to talk shit. I'm coming to talk shit. I like talking shit. You know, I like talking shit. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm glad we finally got a chance to sit down and talk. Appreciate everything that you bring to the culture, all the conversations, the knowledge, all of the Jews that you drop. That's Ray Daniels. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Peace. It's hard. No warrior now. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.