#590 - Chris Robinson on the Rise of The Black Crowes, Wild 90s Stories & "She Talks to Angels

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. You know, it's funny. It's Steven Tyler called me after we sold six million albums. He's like, man, are you going to put your money away? I'm like, put my money away. I'm 23 years old. I could care less. Welcome to episode 590 of the Bobbycast. Chris Robinson, the lead singer of the Black Crows. Yeah, she talks to angels. Jam. I think if you heard the last episode, they should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But Chris and his brother started the Black Crows. In Atlanta, back when they were teenagers, they were called Mr. Crows Garden, which we talked about. They changed their name. You'll hear all of this. They have a brand new album out called A Pound of Feathers. It's out now. They're also back on the road for their Southern hospitality tour with Whiskey Myers. They kicks off May 17th in Austin. Get tickets at theblackcrows.com. So here he is, the lead singer. He's wearing a lot of jewelry, too, just so you can visualize it. It's this is up on Netflix, too. But here we go. Chris Robinson, the lead singer of the Black Crows. Chris, good to see you. You too. We've met before. You've been in Nashville. Yeah. A massive fan, though. I want to say it again. Been to Nashville. My mom's a my 87 year old mom's a Nashville native. I spent a lot of time in Nashville growing up. Really? Well, I'll say again, I'm a massive fan of yours. I just want to make sure you hear that. Oh, I heard you. OK, I'm a massive fan. I don't take it lightly. I'm a Sagittarian. I take that. I always want to hear that. So you big astrology guy? No, I typical Sagittarian. I'm only interested in Sagittarius. I think it does dictate some archetypes, you know, sort of aspects of. Who we are. Do you do like Idiogram, do you do all any of that? All of that? Just just the start. My wife is a witch, so I let her deal with everything. Like a literal one. Pretty close. There's a witchiness to my wife that is undeniable. So and she's a Piscian. So so you can you convince me astrology is real? Is there anything you can say? Because I am I'm not a believer. It's like the occult. Everything is real that you put focus into. OK, now that I can assign myself to. You know what I mean? That could be anything in any energy given. Yes, OK, I believe in astrology then. It took almost no effort. You got me. I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't put it above any other thing. You know what I mean? But like I said, I do believe in there's like some archetypal things about people that seem to be real. Or I guess it just really depends on your perspective of things. I want to tell you a quick story just so I don't forget. Growing up. Was listening to Shake Your Money Maker, which love the record, by the way, when I was younger, listened to every song on it. Knew it all by heart. My grandma raised me. And so I would listen to that record and she just wasn't into Black Rose, which what grandma was, right? Yeah, however, a cool grandma. Well, cool. OK, fair enough. This was a very Pentecostal. Arkansas grandma. Yeah, yeah. So as a matter of fact, no offense to your grandma. I hope that there was one of the things she hated the most. Well, you know, a little bit. I think it was grinding her gears until I would play Hard to Handle. And she was like she pulled a vinyl like an old shredding. She had the record. She had it. Because it was the B side. And it was a live version. The ones the record that she had, it was the live version of him performing that song. And I don't know, it kind of brought us together musically. Yeah, yeah. Cool. That's amazing. That record that I loved, her loving that record. And you guys are you sure it was Otis Redding's version, not Tom Jones from the film? I'm positive. I'm fine because they don't look the same. And I saw the vinyl. I saw her very powerful performers. I think Tom Jones's version actually is really good. I was watching Tom Jones sing live. It was a couple of social media because he was doing like like the voice or something over in another country. He was singing in the English one, probably. Or Irish or whatever it is. That guy could sing. Like I never saw Tom Jones in his real element. He was always an older guy to me. And he was a character or a character by the time that I got to be older. Yeah, no, I mean, very, I mean, I mean, you know, he had the TV show and he would do that with all the guests and stuff. There's amazing stuff for him with Jerry Lee Lewis. He could wail. Yeah. Even as an older guy, like he could really go. And he's still. It's funny. I have a friend who played guitar in his band for a while. And he was like, man, that guy is like, I mean, he's getting close to 90. But he this was 10, 15 years ago. And he goes, he's still up in the hotel room drinking whiskey, big cigar. And like my friend was like, it's four in the morning. I'm like, Tom, I'm going to bed. He's like, you're a. He's like, what a 90 year old tells you. He's like, all right, I guess I'll have another one. You know, it when I was a kid. My mom's from a big family from Nashville. She's the 11th of 13. And I used to dance. You know, I was always a dancer. I dance and my mom told me once that one of my cousins, they were like, they took me to her work and waited for Tom Jones to come on the radio. Because and I would. And they were like, he's like a little Tom Jones. Do you remember that? Or was it before your memories? I don't remember. I don't remember being exploited by my mom for entertainment purposes. Oh, I would come to find out a lot about it later. No, I just it's just funny. It's just funny about music, you know, I was it always was. I have many interests. I have many very varied things in my life. But music has just always been one of the main things, you know. And especially I'm dyslexic. So growing up in the deep South in that era, I'm 59. I don't know if that had something, you know what I mean? It always made music always made sense to me even before I even attempted to not just an emotional thing. There would be some other element to it, you know what I mean? And then I and it is funny because, you know, there's plenty of people. There's plenty of people in the music industry who don't even like music. It's just another job that they have, you know, there's no connection at all. Visceral, cerebral, anyway, you know, so it's just funny. Was there a lot of music in your house growing up? My dad. My dad had a top 40. It's funny, Phono Lux Records in Nashville. Guy owns that he gave me one of my dad's singles last time I was in there a few months ago. When we were making the record. And my dad had a top 40 hit with a record called Boomadip Dip in 1958. That's wild. Yeah, it's on it's on streaming services. And it was kind of like my dad's, you know, he wasn't a. He wasn't like a songwriter or anything, but he had a good voice. And the song's like boom, dip, dip, dip, dip, boom, dip, dip. Well, you know, he was on American Bandstand Alan Fried. He did all that stuff. And then in the early 60s, he that kind of. Didn't happen for him. And he found himself on the folk circuit signed to ABC Paramount Records with a folk duo called the Appalachians. And they would do like those Saturday night folk, hootenannies at the Ryman and stuff. Yeah, so, you know, my brother, you know, the guitar that Rich played Cheetahs to Angels and wrote Cheetahs to Angels on was my dad's 53 Martin D 28. And did you get to see any of that? I didn't. Well, the only bit I got to see of that coming around when I did was my dad was still involved a little bit like in the folk scene. So some of my earliest memories of music, besides him playing records and singing songs, I mean, him picking up the guitar and singing around the house is still ultimately the vision I have of my youth. But it wasn't just my dad singing, although he had a really nice picking style and he had a very good voice. It was the stories. And I loved and my dad was really good about like, well, this song is from Scotland from the, you know, 17th century. And then when people came here, it changed to this, whether it's the Cuckoo or Shady Grove or he's a student. Oh, yeah, especially if you were going to play folk music, you know, you had to really know know what it was. And. It was I think it was also important that he. Just had the guitar out in the house. Like it wasn't weird for me, but he would take me to my some of my other earliest memories are going to Hootenanny. It's like the first time I saw a guy play a banjo. First time I saw a guy play a pedal steel, you know, electric bass, a little drum kit and they would share songs, you know, it's like a real Hootenanny. And as a kid, I just, you know, it was just magical. And it's funny because I tell people all the time, my obsession with not not making music, but listening to music. My mom, my mom, they also between the two of them, they probably had about 250, 300 records, you know, when I was a kid, which was a lot of records for the average American household. So whether it was Moe's Allison records or Jimmy Reed records, or my dad would have Lester Flatton Earl Scruggs and Jimmy driftwood, Doc Watson. But in, you know, the late sixties, early seventies, my dad loves Crosby Stills and Nash and my dad loves Leon Russell, Mad Dogs and Englishman. Slying the family stone. I mean, that's my earliest memories are, you know, they have that. My dad's name was Stan Robinson. And there's that slide song. Stand, stand in the end alone. And I used to think they were saying stand. I was like, he must, they must be friends with my dad. They must know him, you know. And my mom's family, funny enough, because when I'm at Arnold's in Nashville, they have the pictures up on the wall and there's the Spear family, very famous gospel singing group. And my mom's sister, Mildred married Ben Spear. And he played on Elvis records and stuff. So some of my first, I remember they were a gospel, you know, the old Jubilee Jew, you're invited to the gospel, and on that rock and on that kind of stuff. But I took a tour. The first time I was on a tour bus, I must have been six or seven, seven or eight. And we, they had a gig down at like the holiday in a Daytona Beach in 1972 or something. And I remember going with them. And again, like the instruments, you know, and being on a tour bus, just funny stuff, you know, that come that I remember. But it's funny that. I when I went to this is years ago, I went to Arnold's and Khalil's in there. I was like, that's that's my uncle. I didn't really know him very well, but. A lot of families that grow up with music don't want their kids to do music because they've seen the nature of the music business. Yeah, my father was one of, well, on top of him knowing about that, my, I mean, to all transparency, my father just thought I was talentless. You know what I mean? He he hated because Rich and myself weren't. You know, we some of the first songs we ever learned were like Bob Dylan songs. So he would be appreciative of that. But then by the time like, you know, I'm listening to X and the gun club, circle jerks, black flag, you know, the clash, the pistols, even later, the echo and the bunny man and the cure, Susie and the banshees. I mean, they're not feeling that my dad's not under standing. Of that kind of part of music. Did that happen with him and his dad, though? Was his dad in his life or grandpa? No, no, it was generationally. I mean, every generation. They were very supportive of my of my dad. It's like every generation hates the music that the younger generation likes. I think so. I mean, I personally, I again, it's such a huge part of my life was having a record collection like that to go through. I mean, it was. Are you kidding? I mean, and it's funny because it'll come back around to the roots music, you know? My dad didn't like country music, though. My mom loved George Jones. My dad later liked the outlaw country stuff like Jerry Jeff Walker and Willie and he liked that kind of stuff. But it was it's just weird. And I my my dad, he passed away in 2013. My mom still in Franklin, but it wasn't. Even when I was like a little indie rocker, even when I was listening before that, when all I listened to was V 103 FM in Atlanta, you know, and I was a huge, huge Funkadelic Parliament fan prince. I mean, my I mean, maybe Prince upset my dad more than anyone. Why is that? Because I had a poster in my wall of like this like. Beautiful kind of feminine guy and his like. Girls underwear in a shower, you know, I was like, dad, you know, I. I mean, I wouldn't. I don't know why would upset you if I had been gay, but I'm not. But this is the only picture of Prince you could get is from the album. So it's going up on my wall. And I'm like, by the way, also like the sort of androgyny of it all. I mean, I was like, dad, if I didn't have eye makeup on, no girl would talk to me. You know what I mean? I think that's his generation. That was them. They were more fearful. As a matter of fact, I think it's one of the bad. I mean, it is what it is. So I can't necessarily. Put it in a negative connotation, but I see a lot. I love a lot of young bands. I mean, we go see my wife and I have a little record label. I work with amazing kids and. But one thing is funny when you see a lot of modern music, whereas my dad. Didn't want us to do that. Rich is different. They kind of a supported rich, but I was the crazy one, you know. But this is the first couple of generations of kids whose parents were like, yeah, you can do it. Get out there. We'll get you the newest guitar. You can use it. You will get you a van. Well, I'll pay for a public. You know what I mean? That wasn't a part of it when we were kids. And in a matter of fact, I think part of the energy and part of the real commitment and sacrifice, if you will, was that it was something that wasn't my, you know, if I had chosen to be a visual artist, I think my parents would have been more accepted if I if my life, if I had gone into my other deep interest in literature, if I tried to write novel, if I ended up teaching French literature at a small college in the Midwest or something, they would have been happier. And I think a lot of it is where you were kind of going with the business part, show business, you know, it's it's nasty, nasty people, not everyone, but enough to really make it toxic in general. Yeah. And and I would I would say there's a darkness about, you know, that's the Faustian sort of thing, you know, what about? Like when you dance, there's an androgynous element to how you move. What did your dad think about your performance? Well, I think, you know, by the time we make Shaker Money Maker, you know, this is a funny story. So we start off as Mr. Crow's Garden. That's why there's the E in the crows, you know, we kept the name, the proper name. And we were more kind of indie rock, had a little psychedelic kind of vibes. There was a guy in Atlanta named Larry T. There was a club promoter and had a band with RuPaul. They were called the Now Explosion. Their big song on the was it the Now Explosion or Wee Wee Poll? There were two bands. Amazing. And and RuPaul's one of the superstar RuPaul, their song that was on the the collage radio was Put Your Hands in the Air. We've your underarm hair and like all this, you know, super druggy art school gay. Amazing. So cool. So happy to have been adjacent to that. But Larry T. is still around. Larry T. was later moves to New York. And I think he's in like the groovies in the heart video. Larry T. is one of the best DJs ever to like D light. Yeah. Yeah. So he was in that kind of scene. But when we were kids, we there was a place called the Celebrity Club. And it was on Ponce. And we got a gig, two sets on a Sunday afternoon. We're so we don't know what's going on, but they're not serving alcohol. What I didn't know is in it, we so we play our set. We look like the birds on the first birds album. We have Vox amps and we have a lot of different types of music. Vox amps and my brother's playing a teardrop Vox guitar. And we're really into 60s stuff, you know, pinning our pants, you know, so to have stovepipes because you couldn't buy them. And we played two sets in between like a really whacked out drag queen floor show, you know, like, you know, and I didn't know at the time, but you could get little Dixie cups of like Kool-Aid or whatever. It was acid. They were all on acid. We did it. They wouldn't give it to us. You know, Larry, we were little kids and they weren't and I would have. Oh, my God. Taking LSD at that time in my life. I'd hold. I was probably 17, 18. I still would be in the hospital. I mean, later I would get far more accustomed to that experience. But my dad came to this gig, you know what I mean? So it's like here we are. And we're up there and, you know, we would written some songs, but our repertoire included like, you know, we would play There She Goes Again by the Velvet Underground or we would play a big star song or, you know, some kind of things like that. And then it would be this wild acid Southern drag queen thing. And my dad was like, what are you guys doing? He just was so confused. I would give anything to like remember the look on his face, you know, to see him again, you know. But so he was kind of supportive, but. He didn't like. My dad didn't like strange or bizarre. He didn't like things that were uncomfortable to him. And I sought them out. I never cared about your sexuality. As long as you had cool records and you were, you know, you had a good heart and soul, you could be wild. I didn't care about any about your background. And, you know what I mean? It was only about art. It was really art driven. And my aesthetic and my taste ran towards, you know, the films I like, the books I was reading, the records. I guess in a simplified way, it was about counterculture. And my dad wasn't a counterculture figure. Did you guys, you moved down to Atlanta, right? I'm a Atlanta native. I'm third generation. So yeah, I knew you guys. My mom was from Nashville. My dad's Atlanta native as well. Got it. And his dad. Did you stay once you guys hit? Did you guys stay in Atlanta? I left before we even hit. You did not out of any. Not out of anything bad. I mean, I'm. I think if if anything that the climate in our country is teaching us right now is that the South isn't the only place with people driven by fear and ignorance. But being from I'm a proud Atlanta. Atlanta is a really unique place in the we're not just in the South or America, but in the world in terms of how progressive it has been. You guys go to LA. I moved to New York first. And how OK, how how is New York coming from where you were in Atlanta? Musically. But what did you find there? This was after we made it. So like we are not made it, but you know, shaker money makers out. And like the we we start to do OK. I got a check and I was like, boom, you know, I moved to. I had an apartment with a girl that used to dance on Club MTV. And she danced in a cage at Limelight. So, you know, these are show biz things. And maybe this is what my dad was worried about. I I hardly think. But did your brother move with you? No, he stayed in Atlanta for a lot longer. You know, and again, like I said, it wasn't like I was running away from Atlanta, but I had this like innate understanding and feeling that the world was out there for me. You know. I knew I had this weird thing, you know, a lot of bands, whether you're from Seattle or whether you were from, you know, Austin or New York, whatever, not big, big New York, L.A. Entertainment Cities, I just knew my life. I wasn't going to stay in my hometown. I knew it from even before we got in a band. I just knew that I was deeply, deeply influenced by the world. I beat literature, you know, and like millions of us on the road, Jack Kerouac, was a real inspiration in terms of, wow, OK, so if I want adventure, if I want to, you know, that whole idea that he says in the novel, I wanted to be with the mad people. That's what I wanted to. And I wasn't copying him. That was just in all sincerity. That's I knew where my interests were. I had a wanderlust that is still yet to be quenched, you know, and it's it is what it is, you know, it's caused issues in your life. It causes issues with relationships. It causes issues. It causes issues with the band or whatever sometimes, you know, that I. But that's just that's just what it is. There's too much adventure out there. There's too much inspiration. There's too many dreams to have, you know, you guys recorded that whole album, the first album in Atlanta, though, right? Yeah, the first two, actually. So so you went back to record the second album. You were living in New York. You went back down. Yeah, by then, believe it or not, I can't believe a. A relationship with a girl who danced in a cage at Lime. I didn't work out. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. So, you know, another weird thing that I think the, you know, all the parents that tell their kids they should do this, the first Black Crow's tour for Shaker Moneymaker was 350 shows in 18 months. Wow. So that's a really weird thing. And, you know, we were young, you know, I had just turned 22, 23, Rich was turning 20, 21. Do you forget where you are? Whenever you're doing, you know, that many shows. I wasn't, I never was the kind of person to have to look at the set list and go, all right, you know, Birmingham, Alabama, you know, for some reason. I knew where I was. Even later in the super drug out stuff, I always have known where I am. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on the Bobby cast. Can I ask you a question about drugs? Yeah, because I I've never had to drink of alcohol, never done anything, but I would love to. Your grandmother would be so upset if you did. I know she would. I would love to. But I have come from a long line of like hyper super addiction where everybody's died. Right. I think I'd be great at it. But I think I'd want to win, too. I think I'd want to be the best at it. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, it's weird, you know what I mean? Because I was. I was afraid of them. I mean, I started drinking. I mean, I had my first hangover, like adult hangover at 15. But that was kind of. Par for the course, I think, as a young guy in Atlanta. And then then then we're musicians and now we're with crazy people all the time. And, you know, we can't. How do we get this even more crazy? So many of my heroes are crazy people. Did you feel like it opened you up? Made you more creative? No, I don't. But I and I still don't. I still. You know, my only real vice for the last 40 years is is cannabis. But I think cannabis adds to my. Some people can get really stoned and they fall asleep or they can't concentrate. I my chemistry is completely different. As a matter of fact, when I want to concentrate, I will get more stoned. And I don't know if this is because I'm dyslexic or whatever. But I've written song. Most of the songs I've ever written, I'm completely sober, maybe stoned, but not. I couldn't. I never did hard drugs in like to do a gig. I'm really curious about hallucinogenics, because I think I could that would open me up. And you and I read stories about certain people that would take them at certain times or to remove like symptoms of PTSD. I think there are a lot of that's an interesting part of it. You know what I mean? I think the, you know, I'm one of these old sort of heads that. I don't know. A mind blown as a mind shown is what they used to say in the acid revolution. I just don't want to get attacked by a 10 foot starfish. Like I'm tripping out so hard. What if the 10 foot starfish is your best friend and you're right, you could cuddle up with it. Patrick Star. You're right. You know what I mean? I'm SpongeBob. I get it. I don't think it's something. If any trepidation about it, I think dictates already. Where you are, you know, are you kidding me? And at one time in my life, when you're a kid, you're like, heroin's the scariest thing in the world. Well, fast forward a decade and a half and like, Oh, wow. You know, my kids are 16 and 22. They know that I've done these things and I did these things in the 90s. But I also. But I also. I've also in the same way that I knew where I was, I also knew in a sense where without sounding funny, I knew where the line was drawn. That's that's not something everyone has. No, I read a book called I've had moments. By the way, don't get me wrong. I'm not being that cool. I know that I've had moments that scared people around me. I'm known that I've had moments where I'm like, OK, I'm pushing this. And the end of the 90s, I wake up or on Columbia Records. I'm I'm so miserable and I'm so sad. I'm so lonely that this is where our band is. That this is what's happening. There may have been some times where I maybe would have really if what would have happened if I didn't wake up, we would have, you know, our catalog would have been worth more, maybe. I mean, I hate to sound bleak and I'm not romanticizing it. But even then, and it's funny because I think, you know, in my lyrics. There's always a light at the end of the tunnel. And I've lost dear, dear friends, beautiful, tortured souls. Are you kidding, man? Like I've been telling, you know, talking about this new record, Todd Schneider passing away. My I mean, I. We had such a I had such a unique and amazing friendship with him. Todd came to the studio. We were only in the studio eight days or whatever. But Todd coming down to the studio and he's like, you cool if I hang. I'm like, I'm cool if you do whatever. It makes this last album so poignant to me that those are the last few days I got to spin with him. But let's be honest. He might have passed away from other stuff, but I don't think Todd ever had the fact that he was a drug person. And ultimately, I think a lot of the things that happened as tragic and horrible as they are, are are add up to drugs. Now, I'm a drug person who doesn't live that life anymore. So I would never judge anyone for that. I think I'm a drug person that's never done drugs. Yeah. I mean, because I judge nobody for it at all. I'm just so curious about it. Yeah, yeah. I would love to do them. Are you but you maybe, you know, my brother's never done drugs. But Rich also is a level of control that he needs that I have never really found. I've never really found it to be again, it's different. I'm 59 years old. I have responsibilities. I have a lovely I have beautiful two beautiful kids. My their stepmom, my wife is everything. You know what I mean? We still, you know, I still get a hangover every once in a while, whatever. I'm not interested in sobriety and the way it looks. I'm not interested. I'm happy for you. Not, you know what I mean? Like you've never dabbled. But I also think doing drugs and alcohol isn't an excuse for your behavior. And I take responsibility for everything I've ever done. And I can live with that. Did you have a point where you had to kind of reconcile with yourself? No, because I don't have that same. There's not a memorial issue there to me. Now, if I had done something horrendous, I'd been inebriated and killed someone in the car crash. Well, I mean, that's a whole another level of. But when I was in my height of my decadent behavior, I didn't have a driver's license for a decade. And luckily for me and success, I had a kind of life where I always had somebody with me to drive the car or, you know, to go get more drugs. What was it like to be famous in the nineties? Whenever people, they had to find the videos because it was, you know, MTV was massive. It was rock and roll fame. It wasn't celebrity fame. What's it? Okay. Then we defined the difference in rock and roll fame and celebrity fame. Well, okay. So it is a little bit different because of MTV, right? So MTV's driving the visual part of your success. It's not like you were just famous for making records and people saw you in a magazine or they saw you in concert or they would know you that way. So you're, you know, I was, I was telling somebody, I remember, and, you know, we have the number one album in the country. They're playing remedy eight times a day. They've been playing. We sold six million albums on shake your money maker. I go see Jane's addiction at Madison Square Garden. And I want to wait till the lights go down, but the people I'm with, like, let's go to our seats and I'm like, I don't want to go to the seats. And then they, I go and like, you suck. Black clothes suck. You know, like, so there's lots of people who don't like your band, who now see you on TV with the bands they do like. You know what I mean? Was that a game changer when MTV started showing your video? Of course. For anybody. No one, no one was famous rock and roll. No one was successful without being on MTV at that time. It just didn't happen. I mean, it also worked hand in hand with radio when rock radio drove the sales. When everyone listened to the local rock station, depending on you had more than one station, depending on what market you're in. Um, to have big hit records on the radio and to be on MTV all the time. That's why you had people. That's why we sold millions of records. What about Rolling Stone? Um, maybe I'm at the very end of Rolling Stone, meaning something, you know. Um, but then Rolling Stone just turns into People Magazine or celebrity shit like anything else. Like how are you talking about a band that is serious or a band whose music is of this kind of quality, but then you have in sync in there or some boy band shit corporate put together pop stuff. It's not the same. Yeah, everyone's singing and dancing, but it's, you know what I mean? We're out there on our own. We're living by our creative impetus. You know what I mean? It's a visceral experience. We have to be outsider people, not to be cute and do good in the audition. Was it weird when they would portray you was like the good looking cute? Cause you guys, if you can find some of portraying us, you got so famous. You got so famous. They would just be like, these are the hot guys now of, of, you know, there was a moment where we were like, Oh, they're like the rock and roll boy band. I'm like, what? In a million years, you know what I mean? Like, and hey, those guys just wanted to be in show biz. But see the difference between rock and roll and pop music, and you see it today, you see a lot of people run their mouths like, well, you don't do, you do it. You're told, Sonny Jim. And we were trying to, when that was the difference, we were celebrated for to be horrible. And I mean, I don't mean horrible to people or to whatever. I mean, we just didn't give a fuck really. Where you didn't tell us, I mean, the record company management, they were always trying to tell us what to do. And we were like, I didn't know how did I get here? If I did what I was told, then I would be in a boy band, then I'd be a pop star. Then it would be a big act, which is cool too, because that show biz, right? But we were just naive and or ignorant enough to believe that you could do it some other way. I mean, you know, I'm from Atlanta in the late 80s. And our local music scene, which was looking back on it now, it was just like the days of Camelot, you know what I mean? Like we had nothing, no one cared, but all the bands. And I try to explain to younger people, like you guys, like it was every day was bands and gigs and your friends and the national touring acts that would come and would be a big event. But, you know, people, you know, I'm seeing you go see bands now that are, well, I don't know, Black Flag, let's take Black Flag. They, I see them at an all ages show at the six 88, there's 300 people there. You know what I mean? Like it's nothing. It's the club is the size of this. And so when people are like, just moshing and slam dancing, it was still called slam dancing at the time. It wasn't at a giant place with Rage against the machine or Primus up there. It was a little clandestine thing that everyone knew what, what that it was going on, you know, when I, the big shows would be at center stage. You know, I saw PIL at center stage with Peter Murphy. And it's that show was 700 people. And to us, that was like an arena. You know, so it's just funny how the scale of things, you know, that you would sign with a major label, cause I mean, everyone at the bar were all the bands and I'll never sell out. I'll never, but we all wanted a record deal, you know, so bad because we wanted to, we wanted our records to be out there. Yeah. That's what a record deal does, right? Distribution, like gets the records that was the radio and to stores. And that's the, that was the game. And to have a, you know, when you have nothing, they have, you know, 1990, we get the call to go open for Aerosmith, who are huge. Pump is the biggest thing in the world. They're back there, the bigger than the permanent vacation. They're, bup, bup, bup. We're still toiling away. Playing. Now we get back from Europe. We have our first tour bus. We have a couple new guitars. We have a crew. We made $500 a night. Even in 1990, that wasn't a lot of money when you're renting a tour bus and you have all this accrued to mom, you know? So, but by the way, luckily for us, you're on a major label who could put money behind you that you ended up owing, of course. I mean, we signed the one of the worst record deals of all the worst record deals. You hear that story a lot, but what were we going to do? Not sign it. So it was all in advance. You had to pay everything back. Oh my God. You're talking about the videos. Yeah. Jesus, they were so expensive. I mean, that was the one thing about or the one thing that I do appreciate about today is seemingly your financial reality is so much more in your control. It's a great point because look, this show is on Netflix. We've got a couple thousand bucks in camera gear and we can shoot 50 episodes. Yeah. And it can be high as high quality. As opposed to having to go to a TV studio. Or spend $200,000 on a music video or more than that. And I've never been savvy. You know, my life and my interest in my passions are all art. And as a matter of fact, that's been difficult for people. Because, you know, there's this idea too that you're a rock star, so you should know about first off, not only is it am I incapable? It's just the most boring thing in the world. I mean, luckily I'm older now and I worse. We have a team and I'm surrounded by people who are nurturing and can help. But, you know, if you think, you know, we were talking about 1991, 92, you know, it's funny, Stephen Tyler called me after we sold six million albums. He's like, man, are you going to put your money away? I'm like, put my money away. I'm 23 years old. I could care less. What am I supposed to put this away for the rest of my life? I mean, I appreciate him calling, but also who would have had time? I mean, other people, clever people, wealthier people, who would have had time to deal with that? I was dealing with the next album and, you know, being in this band and what I do for the Black Crows and what I've done, no matter what other people want to say is I'm the guy who had the idea to be in a band in the first place. Yes, Rich and I write the songs. Yes, it's impossible to be in a band without the material you play. And that's me and Rich. And of course, Rich's influence and input is equal to mine. But how we look, what it, what it, what, you know, naming the albums, designing stages, designing album covers, artwork, t-shirts. I remember, you know, I tell the story, we put on, we went to England for the first time and we maybe still, we looked a little different, but I still had jeans tucked into a cowboy boot like Guns N' Roses. But I went to a magical place that doesn't exist anymore called Kensington Market. And I walked down there and there's a maroon pair of velvet, crush velvet bell bottoms. The kind Keith Richards had a night on Exxon Main Street era. And I was like, I want those. And then I had this Indian sort of shirt. And I remember we came back and like we did this festival and people were laughing like the other bands, like a band like Warrant, who looked like the Osmans, you know, I mean, crazy horse, you know, they had like matching leather. I was like, okay, all right. You guys are like, if evil, can evil wasn't cool, you know, no offense to them. I'm sure they're cool people and bless them. I'm not bagging on warrant. I mean, but when y'all are laughing at me because I look like this, and then, you know, six months later, Vogue magazine is like, that's how cool people look now. You know, I mean, us and Lenny Kravitz really were the first ones to start looking like bringing back a 70s aesthetic. You know what I mean? So, but you have to have, it's about not only is about writing, but it's about ideas and having an imagination and being able to put it, it's about an aesthetic. Really? And we did in all those years, we never had a stylist. We never had someone come to the video shoot and say, well, you would look cool and we would have laughed at them because that's, we wanted it to be, that we wanted it to be real. You know, I remember one time when we were, we were one of the first rock bands. And I see, speaking of real, I see be real. A couple of years ago from Cyprus Hill and he's like, we were you, we were in hip hop and the black crows and we were the like legalized weed people. And I remember one time this guy, this guy wrote an article, he's like, you know, these guys get stoned and they think that they're the first ones to do it. And I said, no, I don't think we're the first people to get stoned. I just don't know why we can't. You know what I mean? I thought that was my whole point always. You know, even by the time Shaker Moneymaker comes out, I mean, Southern Harmony, people are like, they're retro rock. I mean, I get it. Maybe our look. But remedy doesn't sound like the Rolling Stones. Sometimes salvation most assuredly doesn't sound like the faces. I mean, I think you could look at us because our influences are roots based and the rock music that we liked, whether it was the Stones, the Faces or the band or little feet or whatever, I won't even get into some of the other like kind of influences. Those those are records that are all inspired by the origins of rock and roll and and the blues music, the country music. In our case, a lot of funk music and gospel R&B music, which comes from the blues. I mean, somehow in there, there's jazz music, but then somehow in there, there's punk. And somehow there in there, there's indie rock, right? You know what I mean? So people always, you know, one of the reasons Jimmy Page wants to play with the Black Crozes, he heard us play. But the other reason is he like that we had a lot of the same influences, even though he's a generation removed. You know, and that's been the it was funny because I wish we would have been hanging out with Guns N' Roses, you know what I mean? But we were like hanging out with Joe Cocker, you know, because or whatever. You know, the first rock stars I meet are like Ian Hunter from Mot the Hoople came to the Black Crow Show in our first show in New York. And there he is. He's standing there and I love Mot the Hoople. He's one of the great rock lyricists of all time. You know, I mean, once bitten twice shy, incredible, incredible lyrics. And he was like, I just wanted to meet you guys. I'm like, what? You know, how cool. But I don't think if we'd sounded, if we hadn't been true to what we were and what influenced us and how that inspired us, I don't know if I'm meeting him in the same way. You know, I tell the story, the great Ronnie Lane from the faces is in his wheelchair with MS on his last days and there's, we're opening for a band from Los Angeles called Junkyard. This is our very first tour and we're in Austin, Texas, and we're not even in a dressing room. They got the dressing room. We're in the room with the ice cooler. So like while we're getting dressed, the bar backs are filling the ice for the bar. And there's a knock on the door and this like dipshit security goes, there's some guy in a wheelchair out here named Ronnie Lane who wants to say hello. And like, we, the great Ronnie Lane is here. And he came in with his girl. It was, you know, and he was like, I just, I just wanted to say hello. You guys have said so many nice things about my music. That's cool. And I'll remember it my whole life. I mean, those are the things to me that are the real special things, you know what I mean, that happen. And they still happen. They happen all the time. The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the Bobby cast. The new record, A Pound of Feathers, you and your brother wrote those songs. How are you writing songs differently now? Because it's got to be different, right? Not really. Not to be honest, that's the one thing. I mean, it's a little bit different because a little more deliberate with the writing. No, there's nothing deliberate about what we do. It's all spontaneous. It all and especially this record. I think happiness bastards. Super proud of it. I love it. I was so I think the life in it is as you can feel it. But, you know, when we ended up at Jay's choices in Nashville for that record, we had those songs worked out, you know, a song like Rats and Clowns we kind of had for a few months and we knew like this is the song and this is the lyric and this is the chorus and blah, blah, blah. There were maybe some songs that weren't complete wanting and waiting as an example. I didn't have that chorus, you know, I mean, we had the beat, but the main bit. But I wrote the song in Nashville. This record. We, you know, we knew we're, you know, we knew we were getting geared up to go to the maker record, but I had told Rich and Rich was here in LA. He just moved to the East Coast. I said, I want, I don't, I don't want to have anything finished. I'm not going to do any lyrics until we get to Nashville, which is very different. I mean, I have shit tons of lyrics. I write all the time. I have notebooks. I have notebooks for days. I have little pieces of a postcard that I wrote something or a match thing or whatever. But we were here in the valley where we rehearse and our guys set, I said, set up a drum kit, a bass amp and a guitar amp and like, let's just get out there. So Rich had some ideas and rough things. So we, you know, I sit down at the drums and start to get a little vibes together and where I want the changes to go. And Rich is playing guitar and then play some bass. And one of the really cool things that really set this whole thing in motion was I was at a friend's birthday party in the canyon and Josh Fries, the great famous Josh Fries, one of the best drummers of all time, was at the party and we're friends. And he was like, what are you doing? I said, Rich and I are. And he goes, can I come out and jam? I was like, but you don't have to get on a private jet to go play a stadium in South America with whatever giant ban you're in. He's like, no, I'm home for a couple of weeks. I said, all right, man, if you want to. So Josh comes out. He's not on the album and he's none of the stuff that we did was we used. But it was this spark of like, oh, I could get up off the kit a little bit. Kind of told him like, oh, I like it like that, like this, like whatever. But you don't tell Josh Fries what to do. So Rich is playing and Josh is. And I went home and our mutual friend came over. I made dinner for us and I said, I said, he goes, play me that. He goes, Josh said it was super fun. I said, I don't know, listen to this. And it was just funky and raw and cool, you know. And he goes, that should be the record. Shit like that. And I said, man, well, they're not going to let us get away with that. But. But it's but I felt the exact same thing. So when we got to Nashville, I, you know, I was like, Jay, I mean, I told Jay before we got there, I said, yeah, we're coming in with nothing. And I want to keep it that way. And. And Jay, Jay's so cool. And we have a really good rapport with him. And to be honest, I think Jay likes working with us too, because we're we're we're so not together. You know what I mean? We we we we're we're we're still wild. We're feral in the studio. And I don't even remember what we started with first. It was maybe profane prophecy or it's like that or something. But Cully, our drummer lives in Nashville, so we had Cully so I could sit down at the kit, show him like kind of where I'm feeling it. And then that was it. And then Rich, you know, Rich plays all the guitars in bass. We have Cully, Eric, our keyboard player came in at the last couple days. And Leslie and Mackenzie are backup singers, sang in one day. And it was eight days and we wrote all these songs. And it was just heaven. You know what I mean? It's one of the moments I've been lucky enough to, you know, I we love making records. It's one of the most satisfying things about our careers. I love records in general. I've been collecting records since I was 12 years old. I mean, I'm obsessed with records. It's a problem. You know what I mean? I moved out of my parents' house in 1987 and all I had were a couple of t-shirts and boxes and boxes of books and records. And that's pretty much my life still. But when we got in there, it was just great, you know what I mean? Like I and it's funny, it gets back to Todd Schneider's there. And he's like, what? I've never seen anything like this. You and Rich don't even say anything. And you just wrote three songs. What the fuck are that? And we have an ESP. We have a telepathic weird thing. It also has to do with being brothers. It also has to do with writing many songs. But even when we were teenagers still in mom and dad's and we start writing our first songs, it's the same. We just go with where the muse takes us and how it feels. And I believe in the muse. I believe in the muse and its full Greek myth, glory. And one thing that has never changed is I've never, and this gets back to the business sort of part of it. If I gave myself to something like the business or worrying about the money, I worry about money like anyone else because I'm almost 60 years old and I have responsibilities. And I love French food. And I love my haberdashery as well. But then if you spent your time with that, then the muse is going to abandon me. And I really, honestly, I can only speak for myself, but I don't ever. And it's problem. You know, it's a problem always being half in a dream. And I understand that. And I'm lucky to, I'm lucky to have the wife that I have, you know, who will check me and when it's time to put my feet on the ground and I need to be here for her or for us for whatever I'm there to deal. But I'm also lucky that she understands that that's where all the fruit is. You know what I mean? That's truly the garden that we've been cultivating for over 40 years. And if I removed myself from it, I don't think it would be there for me the way we're talking about it, the way Rich and I can sit down in a studio in a little more than eight, nine days and come up with this kind of music that personally I feel is so vibrant and alive music that's really representative of not only the celebration of life and how I feel, but that it's also delves in, you know, I'm not political person, but I'm upset and and it hurts right now for me to be in this country. It hurts. And I don't care about politics. I know morally what's right and wrong and what I see is wrong. And it just breaks my heart. Racism has always broken my heart. Seeing maligned people. It's heartbreaking. And we and some of, you know, and some of us feel that we could do better. You know, and and and I get it. I get that everyone has an agenda, but I so this is we're making this record in May. This is before like these last couple of weeks. Yeah. But I think, you know, also, I don't write anything political ever. I'm a poet. And I and I say that knowing that, you know, that's a very heavy word for me. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on the Bobby cast. I've got three final questions. They're completely different questions. We're going to talk about Chelsea football. We are not. We were talking about that beforehand, though. We were first question. Was it annoying when. Black Rose, Cheryl Crowe and counting crows all existed at the same time. Yeah. We throw Clint black in there and you got a real problem. You know what I mean? Yeah. That would have been a tour. That would have been a tour right there. Clint black, Cheryl Crowe, the counting crows and black crows. Yeah, I told Clint black that one day. I was like, man, everyone's ripping us off. Cheryl Crowe, counting crows, Clint black. Our keyboard player, Eddie said that one day. It was so funny. Cheryl really gets an excuse. Counting crows. I mean, we live in such different worlds at the time. I was kind of annoyed, but whatever. Were you before counting crows? Yes. And so how many crows bands are there? Right? Like that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there was like an old R&B group called. Yeah, not many is my point. Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. Would you, would you guys ever talk about all twine together as a ruse or a show? I think that would. The ultimate. I don't know any of the counting crows people. I know Cheryl pretty well. I love Cheryl, by the way. She is. She is a sweet. Yeah, she's awesome. A sweetheart in her band. I mean, oddly freed Robert Kearns. Stroud. I mean. So you're a little annoyed by all the crows. Okay, good. Second question. Yeah. So it's a lot of crows at once. All at the same time. It doesn't matter. I mean, let them have some more crows. Yeah, but the Velveteen crows or the mayonnaise crows. Now as many crows as you can get. Yeah. Which one of you guys is big hits fell out of you the fastest when writing it? I think she talks to angels easily. Rich came up with that guitar intro. The down and out and out and out and out. Yeah, and I hope any. I mean, he was still at mom and dad's house. How old were you guys when this happened? So Rich was 16 when he wrote that riff or whatever, maybe 17. And you were I was 1920. So that's one of the first. But you know, it's funny, we wrote that song and then it did it. We didn't really have any way to play it. And when we meet George Draculius, who signs us and finds us and produces our first couple of records. You know, I don't think we had that middle section. But I remember the first line of this. I mean, we for the reality is we wrote the bones of that song in about 25 minutes, 20 minutes, because I for whatever reason. She never mentioned the word. She never mentions the word addiction. So she's hiding something and she doesn't want to talk about it. Again, I'm writing this song way. You know, we were talking about drugs. Well, I had never. I had I had probably been stoned a handful of times. I definitely knew about alcohol, but I had I wasn't involved in anything like that. The subject matter would become a lot more familiar as the 90s roll on. But. But you know, the thing that the correlation between then and and today and how I write is. Especially this record, I was saying the lyrics are darker. There's a lot of stuff and there's a lot of decadent stuff in there. So as I just told you, I'm in the only relationship that's ever had any gravity to me. You know, I mean, I'm in the only relationship that contains real, real. Dynamic love and and passion and commitment. But who wants to hear about that? You know, so if I'm going to write a song and what really did I mean, lots of people want to hear about that. But what really dictates to me the imagery and the lyric, the poetry of the song is could be anything in the case of She Talks to Angels. Rich played me something that was really melancholy. You know what I mean? So I could access like a sort of story that that that that was adjacent to me. I knew a girl in Atlanta who had a certain look. So I and and there had I didn't know her that well. She was super rad, goth chick. But maybe she was on heroin or something, which at the time would have been pretty deep. And you know what I mean? People, we were still kids. So I romanticized about like someone. I didn't know if someone loses a kid. You know what I mean? I just started riffing. You know, I didn't I wrote one draft of the lyric, too. It wasn't like I worked on it for day. You know, it just the story came out in that form. You held that song for a long time then, right? Yeah, pretty. Yeah, for a couple years. Like you knew it was good then. You just were waiting for the right time. It was just like, how did it fit into what we were at the time? Did it fit into what you were? Or was it so good? But later, you know, I think when we start to find ourselves like, you know, you're also talking about the era of the power ballads of all these like fucking hair metal bands and stuff. So we were to me, I didn't, you know, to me, sad eyed lady of the lowlands is a ballad to me. Wild horses is about, you know, the ballad. We loved Graham Parsons. You know, we love the burrito brothers. You know, so we're not afraid of ballads. But I think we would put it more in the context of and I think a reason, one of the reasons that song has lived on and has a certain. I don't know. Mystique about it is because it comes from that kind of place. You still like playing that song? Yes, of course. I mean, I mean, I think. I think we're so blessed to have a song like that. Did you ever not like playing the song? Maybe, you know, because it got so big. And I think anything that you're expected to do all the time, doesn't matter what it is, you'd probably. Or if you're me, you're definitely hate that, you know, but that was youth, too. Now I I can't imagine not playing it, you know. And you know, what the other thing is, it's funny, because if you're in a rock band, if we were in a certain kind of rock band, you know, I don't. You know, we get into this because we're songwriters and I meet people. I will I will go to the air. I'll you know, I'll go to the airport or walk down the street or sit in a restaurant, whatever. People share with me their stories of addiction and recovery. People share with me all sorts of things. But the amount of people I meet who tell me about the song, our songs that they play at weddings and funerals really means a lot to me because I'm the same. You know, there's certain songs I I have to put on if I'm feeling a certain way. You know, something that is. Like an old friend, the only one who understands, you know, I want to ask about Whiskey Myers, so you guys are going to tour with Whiskey. Before I forget the other stuff about writing songs is a lot like the new record. There's a lot of lyrics that are that are me. And there's a lot of lyrics that were me. But then it's like the Coen Brothers movie Barton Fink, where Barton Fink's talking to the guy who's like the Southern writer or whatever that he admires for. He goes, you've written so many things that touch the common man. Where do these come from? What's the inspiration? And he says he goes, well, Barton. Sometimes I like to make things up. How do you guys end up with Whiskey Myers? You're torn together to go ahead, lining towards going to be an awesome show. Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited. You know, it's funny. My brother actually wrote some songs with Whiskey Myers a few years ago. So that's how I first hear about them. And I think we could play to show with them in Oklahoma a couple of years ago. And, you know, although we are most assuredly a rock band, we because of our roots, influences and because of being a Southern being Southern people, a lot of country music artists have had the black crows in their lives. And Whiskey Myers definitely being one, being very open and vocal about it. And they're a country band who's kind of on the outside of the Nashville thing and Texas and everything. So I think that it, you know, it kind of fills in on both sides, you know, that both bands aren't exactly what you think they are, but both bands are exactly what you feel they are, you know, and I think that really is going to make it a really special tour. So the tour starts in May. Hope everybody that's watching this goes and watches a show. Both bands are awesome together. That's pretty crazy. That'd be an awesome. I mean, I, we're very excited and I've heard they're very excited. So we're kind of just chomping at the bit to get out there and. So I mean, I hope things are going really well. I would love to have those. I mean, we haven't had a tour where like that since we were with Tedeski trucks band and that tour ended up being lifelong friendships and, you know, really great jams at the end of the night, you know, on core kind of collapse and stuff. So I'm hoping all that stuff happens. Well, massive fan. I appreciate the hour. I hope the new record does exactly what you want it to do. I always listen to the, to the old stuff. It still feels fresh and new. I feel like if it came out today, it would still be. And also the record we're labeled with the. And you don't do drugs or drink when you like it. Love it. Not like it. Love it. And the pubic hair. Alp. That was, that was troublesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I bet your grandma wouldn't know. No, no, no. I hid that one. I'm explaining that. I didn't. We hid that. We make sure she never saw that one. It's not about sex as much as it's about gratuitous behavior in American culture, but I don't want to dig into the semantics. Of course. Let's just stick with the pubic hair. Chris, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to a Bobby cast production. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.