The Real Avril Lavigne (FBF)

What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. I really just walked into my studio and brought me beer, champagne and pizza. And I've never done a podcast before. Dude, cheers. Tops, bottoms, bottoms, tops, criss, cross. Fuck, I already feel so much cooler. I'm really, really happy you're here. I'm obsessed. The way to kick this off is so fucking good. Daddy gang, if you're listening to this and you cannot see anything, Avril just walked in here, pizza, beer, champagne. You're a pretty good guest. Thanks for coming. So this is your first podcast. What type of Canadian would I be if I didn't show up with beer? I'm obsessed. I didn't know what to expect. Like obviously I think what's so fun with songwriters and musicians is like, we don't all the time get to see your personality. So you literally never know what to expect. So it's fun to immediately kick it off and be like, oh, you're comedy. You know what you're doing, Avril. Okay. First podcast. Why don't you usually do sit down long interviews? Um, I usually don't really like interviews. I get it. If I'm honest. No, it's fine. It's never been like my favorite thing to do, but like you seem super cool. So I'm happy to be here. We're just going to chill for an hour and hopefully you don't hate me by the end of this. I promise it's going to be chill. Yeah. You recently just announced that you're going on a North American tour and you are releasing your greatest hits album. How did you decide to do this? It's so iconic and inspiring. Yeah. So it's like 22 years into my career now, which is super gnarly to even think about. Um, and, um, releasing a greatest hits album in June and going on the greatest hits tour. And it's pretty great to, to be going back out on the road and I'm doing one of the biggest tours of my career this far, just off like celebrating like my catalog. And so I feel like super stoked and lucky to like still be doing my thing and loving it more than ever. I just like not to freak you out, but I love you and I grew up loving you. And I used to make the most embarrassing music videos to all of your songs. Like I have one of the most embarrassing music videos to nobody's home. And it's like a little young Alex fucking depressed being like singing in the corner of my room, six years old, seven years old, eight years old to now being like, it's dope to be in your presence. Wow. That's crazy. Thank you. You made music videos. I feel like you need to like find that, bring that up and like put little clips on Tik Tok. I see that. See the thing is, Avril is like my version of a music video compared to like the young kids on Tik Tok now, like they're hot and cool and like wear cute outfits and know how to do like contour. I was fucking busted with my little like acne and braces. So like they're not cute. Okay. They're for like my parents to see only and be like, you were so cute. I was like, mama, I was hideous. What is the difference like when you go on a tour? What is the difference between touring now versus like when you first started out? So like on my first tour, I wanted to be like Green Day because I had gone to one of their shows and like all of their songs were like hit after hit after hit. Just like singles. It was just like power all the way through. And so like on my my first tour, I only had three singles and the rest was just like album tracks and like for me, that just wasn't good enough. I wanted every song to be like a banger. So I guess it did work super hard to get to this point where now like every single song in my set list is a hit song, a single and like a really big milestone and part of my career. So like making a strong set list is like for me, that's like the biggest thing that goes into the show. But I think every tour has gotten easier. I've come out of my shell more as a performer also like bringing like my favorite bands out on the road to open with me like actually like my friends. So we can play like beer pong backstage, skateboard backstage together, have barbecues backstage. Did you have simple plan? So simple plan open for me on my first tour back in. And you had all time low to all time lower. Oh my God, I was so obsessed with all time low. I had posted I was like I was like very, very obsessed with them at a point where I was like this is concerning. Like I really thought I was gonna marry one of them and then like I obviously didn't. I was I know I was obsessed and I would like wear skinny jeans and like the cult like I would wear like skinny colored jeans. Where are you from? I'm from Pennsylvania. Okay. And you're from Canada. Yeah, I'm from Canada. What do you do to make it fun on tour? Like give me an example. I like touring with my friends and like days off taking the bus to like a campsite and going camping and going and pulling up into like an RV site instead of like going to a hotel and just like sitting there staring at the ceiling like what is my life. Seeing way too many of those way too long. Like I just go on Amazon and I get a bunch of fun like I've got a pink cooler that I've just ordered and pink chairs that'll sit outside of my bus every day. There will be beer there. I'll have my skateboards out and then usually my bus is the cool bus because of that with and I have my beer pong table out there and then everyone just like after the show comes my way. Do you have any like pre show rituals? Like are you superstitious at all? I'm just like mellow as fuck in the day because if you think about it the show is around like 9pm which is why noon feels like super early. I'm so sorry that you're even awake. I'm so sorry that this interview was at noon. I like come walk in and I'm like when I open it I'm like I haven't worked out. I haven't had breakfast. I need to like make sure I'm covered here. Oh my God. I'm sorry about that. Yeah someone came in like do you think you can lower the lights a little bit? Oh right she's not awake. You're literally doing this as leave. You're gonna leave and be like what the fuck did I say on that interview? My time even though the interview was at noon my time was like 8 o'clock glam. Stop. Leave the house at 1030. I was like can we push glam tonight? So not superstitious. Yeah no I think I just like what's important is that I do take care of myself before the show and then do the complete opposite after the show. So it's like sleep in hopefully until 3 or noon on the early side and then like the show that is like the gym session. It's a 90 minute set at like 9 o'clock at night so that's when I have to like give it my all and be awake. But that is actually the flow of my body is to like wake up at night not a morning person. We've made that clear. Or a new person. You're like why am I here? Can I take a quick nap Alex? You just talk for the next hour. I have some pizza. But that makes sense though because I like I think that's like if anyone has a nighttime job like you're sleeping in super late. You have to bring it. It starts and then we don't go to bed till 6am because you get off stage. You're wired. You're in the adrenaline and then like bus call buses don't leave until like whatever 3 o'clock. So it's like after the show we like set up a barbecue you know have fun to hang out with the bands and all that. And party. And for me like that tour bus that's my home. So again another fun Amazon order of just hello the fuck kitty everything. I've got like 20 hello kitty pillows in the front lounge and I've got like hello kitty bedding hello kitty towels and everything's just pink and fun. Oh my god I didn't even think you would be a hello kitty girl. Yeah. I would think like maybe a lot of a hello kitty room. On my house. On your house. The tour bus is a hello kitty tour bus but my room in at my house I have our room. Well it used to be my bedroom and it's a hello kitty bedroom. When guys came over would they like be a little freaked out to like have sex in that room. Well I was a lot of guys. Okay sorry. It's a man relationship long relationships. Right. It's a man. I mean there was like a stripper pole and the coffee in the little coffee table and like this huge pink velvet couch full of like all these stuff. Stuffed animal hello kitties. Are you getting on the stripper pole. Oh hell yeah. You're good on a stripper pole. Wait you need to teach me what the fuck. How did you learn to get on it. You just you just have a couple of those and wing up a couple beers and you're ready to go. Wow a new talent. I guess if I'd asked you like what's a hidden talent would you ever say that or no. No. Next time you go to a party and they ask you a fun fact about yourself you're like I can rip on a stripper pole you're welcome. What is one of the craziest like fan interactions you've ever had. I got a wedding dress in when I was like over in Korea. Bunny was thrown at me on my lap in like a bag and I was like what was this warm and I like open it. I'm like I thought it was a cat. It was a bunny but we took care of it. It made sure it went somewhere safe and then I had a wedding dress and I was like that's cool but it's weird. Yeah because now that like woman will never see her wedding dress yet. No it was like for me from a guy. Wait what? I thought you were saying like a woman gave you her wedding dress to like take and sign. A man gave you a wedding dress. Yeah I guess that was a super forward way of proposing. But I have that effect on people. Literally. We'll get to that. Your style. Can we talk about this for a minute because again like when I was younger I just remember so many moments in early 2000s trends were dictated by you Queen. Like your style was and is everything. If you had to pick three essential wardrobe items that are like your staples what would you pick? A big hoodie. Just like an oversized black hoodie. Like bondage pants. And like military boots. Like combat boots. Okay so that has like kind of changed because when I was younger Avril I remember it was the neck tie. The neck tie. But you don't understand like I would look at you and be like oh my this is the fucking coolest thing ever that she's wearing a neck tie. So I would venture into my older brother's room. But he went to like a like Catholic prep school so he had ties that were like wide as fuck and ugly and hideous. And that's the only tie I could find and I would like wear it around my house with like a little wife beater. Oh my god stop that is so cute. I really thought I was doing something and I hope those photos never surfaced. But the neck tie was iconic. And then like the little like the sweat bands on your wrist you used to wear which were so cool. Yeah it's crazy. I've been thinking about the tie a lot lately and the wrist bands the sweat bands with the the skater boy star which is like my tattoo right here. And I'll probably wear those on stage because I used to wear them all the time. All the time. Yeah and that's so fun. Maybe I'll wear the neck tie on stage. Please honestly do it for me. Like I will literally have like a revival in my soul. I need to come do a show. I'm like so obsessed but that would be epic. I think everyone anytime we see you in a tie it just brings us back to like our childhood and it makes us happy. It was so crazy like my first show so I was like 17 and it was I don't know where it was. It was in Vancouver somewhere and it was sort of like a warm up show they were putting together for me. And it was like in like a little club and it was like the first real show and I remember like being up in my dressing room and looking out onto the street and seeing like all the like fans lined up to come in and they were the girls were they were dressed like me. They had on the tank white tank top and the tie and like stick straight hair and black eyeliner and I was like what I was like this is crazy. And it like from like the first show it was like from the beginning it was like a thing. I'm pretty cool to see like every album like my image changed a bit to like under my skin my second album I put like black hair in and was wearing the bondage pants and then all the girls front row like the blonde hair with the black underneath the bondage pants black eyes. The third album the best damn thing showing up the show with the pink streak in the hair and just like. I will never forget that trust me I thought about doing it. My mom was like absolutely fucking not Alex I'm like shit. Were you always like super confident to wear whatever you wanted to wear like your whole life. Yeah, it kind of just like came together and like think about it or anything. Like obviously when I was younger I was like just dressing and whatever my mom bought and then when I got you know into high school I was like OK I like hoodies and skateboarding clothes and I started skateboarding and was into like West 49 and vans and started wearing like really baggy pants and my parents were just like. Are you gonna keep dressing like a boy. When I like made when I went out to New York City and was like meeting with like important people and writing songs in the studio they're kind of like can you like dress up a little better. But what was awesome was when I got signed by L.A. Reed. I was sitting in his office I was like 16 and he just looked at me and he was like taking a meeting with my mom and I and he's like you know. You have like your own thing going on girl like usually we have like people come in and you have to like figure out what your style is and we like help you and whatever and he's like you got your own thing going on like you just keep doing you. And like I think that was awesome I'm so glad he did that probably like looking back that did instill confidence in me but also like. I didn't care I was gonna dress that way anyway. Right. No but that's like a great thing to know that someone didn't try to change that was probably in a position where like if they asked you to answer your mom and you would have looked at each other and like fuck like is this what we have to do to make it in this industry. And like normally they probably especially like at that time with like all bubblegum pop was so big they probably would have put me in something sexy cute pink girly frilly like mid drift and like that wasn't not my vibe. There's definitely like times that like photo shoots I show up at whatever magazine to shoot to shoot and they wanted to put me in stuff that like I was very afraid of. Like blouses and I was like nah so I'd like you know you'd have to like have a word with them the manager would be like you know she's her own style and like pull out my like skateboarding book bag and dump like my ties and my spike bracelets on the floor and be like it is for my stuff. But we had to go back and forth but it was like a little bit of a fight and I had to always push for that but it worked out pretty good. It worked out phenomenally. I want to go back a little bit to your childhood because I think like when you're looking at someone so famous and so successful it is fascinating like you grew up in Canada in a really small town with like 5000 people. How would you describe your childhood like before you were famous. Normal as fuck and I'm like grateful for that because like I came out of like a really young age and I'm glad that I had like a normal steady like solid childhood. I played a lot of sports. I was on the hockey team. I was gonna say the guys hockey team. How the fuck did you get onto the guys hockey team. Well I just wanted to play hockey and it was like the guys there wasn't a girls league. So I was able to play from like novice to Pee Wee and then Pee Wee is when there's body contact and that's when I wasn't allowed to play anymore. But then at that by that time I was in grade nine like my first year of high school and they had a girls team in the high school so I tried out for that and I almost said audition. I tried out for the girls team in high school and I made it and then I blew it by going to our first tournament out of town and getting expelled from school. And kicked off the out of the tournament because someone got caught drinking in the hotel room and someone ran around. No Abra. And my parents were just so mad at me like I liked it drugs or something which I've never done by the way. And it was like I had done something so terrible. It's like who cares of course I'm away from my parents in a hotel. We're in Toronto the big city between like an you know like an officer tournament and like yeah I got busted. So I got how to go home. My parents were like we're going to send you to the Catholic school. And I was just like oh what have I done. Did you make friends with all the guys when you were playing with like guys or were you like the odd man out and people would make fun of you. My whole life I've been like friends with guys all in school and we would like get in real fights. I'm a good blocker. That's like that was my move. I'm a blocker like block the punch. And yeah so I play a lot of sports hockey in the winter baseball in the summer. I was a pitcher. It was a lot of like because I was so into hockey like there's a lot of like rollerblading rollerblading around town building forts skateboarding and all that stuff. Yeah I hung out with the guys and then I like left home had a band lived on a tour bus with guys and still like to this day. I'm just like most of my friends are guys. Did your parents ever be like why don't you have any girlfriends like should we invite like Rebecca over like let's try this let's give it a whirl Averill or did they like not give a shit. My parents were really strict with me like if I had a guy over who was just my friend even like there was no bedroom. It was like the middle floor. They monitored it. It was dinner. But all we wanted to do anyway was one around and like rollerblades skateboard play mini hockey. I played hockey too. And my brother played hockey. Yes. I was like well first of all I was like not that great. I ended up going and playing soccer but I was like on offense and my dad works for the NHL. So like my whole life hockey. Oh my god. It was cool but we were like it was weird. I think in Pennsylvania like you're lucky Canada. It was like that's the sport. But in Pennsylvania people were like why do you have your children playing fricking hockey. And my dad was like it's just the best sport ever like just trust us. And so we had like roller hockey mini hockey in the basement on the carpet. And you take the sticks and burn them over the stove. Oh my god. And like I think people are like what are you guys doing in your basement. We're playing mini hockey. Literally thriving. And it was so fun. No we're older. But it's cool that you played hockey because I feel like it's obviously a sport that makes you really fucking tough. It does. And you just learn to like basically get the shit beaten out of you on the ice and then you're like oh it's normal day. And it's freezing cold. All the pads. And just skating alone is so hard. It's like gnarly cardio. And then if you were actually like playing and stickhandling and shooting and like you're out there and the game is happening skating is its own thing. Oh my god. I remember like I want because Matt my husband is from LA and I so badly just want to take him like ice skating even if it's like during Christmas time around like the little fucking pond. Okay. Because he's so good at sports but he does know know how to ice skate. So I'm like watch me backwards skate. Watch me skate around. Watch me drill. Are you awesome on skates. I'm really good. Me too. We should go skate. I can skate backwards. Cross over. It's like it is a pretty good skill to have and I feel like it's a flex when like a guy takes you ice skating during like the holidays and you're like oh you think I'm gonna have to hold your hand or hold on to like the rails the whole time. Bitch. I'm going to be holding you like I know Matt's can be falling and I'm going to be holding him. And you know sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc And then I got fired. Again, were you drinking on the job? No, I'm a really good hard worker. I actually asked Requested for some time off to perform somewhere and he used it against me. Oh my God, he must feel so fucking dumb now. He's like, fuck. And then I wrote a song about it on my first album. Wait, which one? It's called My World. And that's about the chicken shop you worked at? Got fired by a fried chicken ass all in a small town, Nafini. Wait, that was about him. Shut the fuck up. And I heard after they took the lyrics of my song and framed it and put it up in the store. You're like, fuck. Fuck yeah, I could have used the extra $20. That's fucking epic. I didn't realize that. Now I need to go back and listen to that song again because sometimes when you're listening to songs, you're like, oh, did they just make that up or that you literally lived that? You got fucking fired from those chicken fuckers. I talk about my hair is actually so curly. Like no one knows that. I have a really frizzy, curly hair. What? I didn't discover the flat iron until the making of my first album. So on that song, also My World, I talk about how I would braid my hair in a zillion braids and it would take me all friggin' day. Are there lyrics? Cause it would take me five hours. So I would just braid my hair in little braids because there was no flat iron back then or definitely not in my small town. Then when it came to LA, I was working on my album. My producer took me to get a blow dry and I was like, what? This is a life changing. Do you know what I have done? I used to like shower and like wash my hair, like put on a toque. Stop. What you guys call a beanie in the States, a beanie. Just like let my hair try to dry flat. I couldn't get it straight. You're trying to literally like pin it to your head. So then she got me, my producer got me a flat iron. Actually, yeah, for my birthday. And then it was game over. Everyone just thinks I have stick straight hair. Because that's just like never. Well, I ever want curly hair I've got. And it's so straight. It's so straight. Like your first album, I remember, cause my hair is so naturally straight that I was like, oh my, cause so girls used to make fun of me in like middle school being like, your best friend is your straightener. And I was like, I don't own a straightener because my hair was so straight. So when I saw your first album, I was like, oh my God, she's a straight hair girl. I like neat. Now I'm realizing like, average. Dude, if you saw my hair, it's like poof. It's like so curly. I hate it. But like my friends like it. I bet it's so gorge. Like I bet you actually look amazing. But I get when you're younger, like anything you have, you're like, I want the opposite. I don't want this shit. But my hair is so thick. So when I do get a blow dry, it's like, lasts for like a week. When I'm thinking now of how normal your upbringing was, like what do you think people in your town thought when you started getting famous? I don't know. Like do you think it was a surprise to people? Like, okay, so like around school. Okay, so when I was 14, I won a contest to sing on stage with Shania Twain in Ottawa. So I was like a few hours away from my small town. And like I sang on stage with her and then I came back and I was like famous in my high school. I was like walking down to the hallways like, ah, same thing. I was like, I don't know. I was like, ah, singer girl, she's the singer girl. That's several. So everyone kind of knew me as like the singer girl. You got famous at 17 years old. Yeah. Like big, big things. So I'm a high school dropout. Love, love. Me too. Do you? I went to New York and I started making my first album. My friends were all doing, what are those things called, the exams? Oh, like the shit I didn't have to do. Is it an exam? Like I said to you. What's the thing at the end? Yeah, yeah, an exam. Yeah, I didn't have to do that. Oh, final. I would make fun of them and I'd be like, thank God I don't have to do this. I'm just in New York, gaining 10 pounds, eating McDonald's and pizza every day. No shit. That's all my brother and I did because he came to Chaperone. Oh my God. And so, yeah. And but all I was thinking at the same time was, this better work. Right, she's like fuck. This better work. Cause I feel like you're a quite confident person. Like did you have any insecurities back then? No, I was like, just like Tom Boyle, like hanging out with the guys, loved music. And then, you know, like when I was younger, I was singing in church, singing at like the country fairs around town. That's kind of like, those were sort of the like options in front of me. Then when I got into high school, so like 14, 15, I was like, not really feeling these songs anymore. So I like went through a phase where it was like, I could have gone, you know, I was at a crossroads. It could have been like, okay, I'm not gonna sing anymore. Or it was just like, I was just like, I don't want to do these events anymore. So I started turning them down and it was kind of like, what are we doing here? And that forced me to write my own songs. So I sat in my bedroom and was like playing the guitar. I had no idea what I was doing. I knew one chord, but I was gonna figure it out. And so I started definitely like writing for sure at 14. I didn't know that because one of my songs I wrote, really I'm 14 years old. No. I'm not that old. That's one of the fucking lyrics in the song. So I was like, I know I was writing by 14. That's amazing. Yeah, so, and then I got into high school and then I discovered like Green Day and No Effects, Blink 182 and I was like, yes. And like got an electric guitar, wore it low and just started writing my own songs. And that's kind of like where it all shifted for me. And then sort of like ended up performing again and making my way to New York City, getting a record deal by like 16 and was so young. No one could fathom that like I wanted to write my own songs. So that was like the biggest sort of challenge on the making of the first album and that everyone, the producers, you know, they naturally went to like polished and fluffy and this and that and I was just like, no. And it was like really, I worked with a million people on that album. And then I finally connected towards the end with a couple of producers that then understood they like sat there and listened to me and heard what I was going for. We wrote the songs together and it was like a really perfect collaboration where it was like, okay, there's this young girl, she has a vision and we're gonna work with her and help her get there. And they were all extremely talented people too. And so fought for that, got it. And like, you know, developed my own sound and style and the rest is history. That first like sound and style, like I remember I was reading somewhere you really described it as like pretty like angsty. And like you coming across as like a quite like chill, happy person, like were you actually feeling a lot of those emotions? Cause like some of the songs are really fucking sad because trust me, I cried to them and I was growing up. So like where were those feelings coming from? I'm a really big feeler and I feel everything and I've gone through, you know, I've obviously experienced all different types of emotion when you're in high school, when you're going in that age, you know, you're really trying to let, you're like feeling, having a crush for the first time or being disappointed, feeling neglected or like being vulnerable and opening your heart to someone your first break up and the excitement of something new. There's so much to like tap into and to write about. I was never really thinking about it. It would probably just end up being like that day what I was feeling. There's definitely like songs like losing grip. I'm often like, I listen to the lyrics and I'm like, and I knew it when I was writing them. Like, where's this shit coming from? Is this my past life? I mean, I'm sad. Your parents ever like, what the fuck, Avril? Are you okay? No, I'm not really, but they were, they were like, they didn't like the swearing. They were a little like, you know, the clothes and da, da, da, but like they get it. My mom, when I was two, she was like, she knew I was going to be a singer, like came home from church. She's like, holy shit. Holy God. She's like, she's like, came home. She said I came home from church singing, Jesus loves me or Jesus loves you. And she's like, oh my God, she can sing. And so my parents were like so supportive and like obviously wouldn't be here without that support. Were you always confident getting on a stage? Like, are you like, I feel like you're not, you were. You just, cause like I always have this weird dream though, where I'm on stage and I can't remember the words. Why have I been doing that lately? We stopped. But no, I'm confident on stage. It's like, like nothing. You never even thought about it. It's like nothing. Yeah. That's incredible. And when, okay. And then when I sang with Shania on stage, it was in front of like 20,000 people in this arena, like packed, it was 14, all I felt like overcome my whole body was like, like walked out on stage and I was just like, oh my gosh, like I really, this is what I really want. Like for me. And then like two years later, three years later, I sold out that arena and played my own show. Do you remember like how you felt? I was like, this is crazy. This is insane. And when you would have those moments of like, holy fuck, like would you turn to like your mom? Like who was your go-to person to like freak out with? I still like have them all the time. Wow. Just like if I'm just like walking, I hear myself like now it in public. And I'm like, I was gonna say, and I'm in a mall and then I hear myself, but I'm not really in a mall. I don't know where I am. Maybe it's an outdoor mall. I don't know. I love wherever I am. And I hear myself on the radio. Like it's, it's definitely like, damn bitch. Do you know? You made it like, you did. Small town. No connections. I don't know how I did it. It was supposed to happen. Obviously. It was. A lot of hard work. But it's really interesting to hear you talking about your songwriting process. Cause you're so talented. Thanks. And hearing you be like, I'm writing, losing grip. And I'm literally like, what the fuck am I? Where did I, did I experience this? Like nobody's home. Like it's- Right? I kind of felt that way too. But like I was also like, okay, I'm gonna write this about this like girl that I know or like the words sort of start and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna take it in this direction. And that's not about me. And I'm tapping into like, what I know somebody else went through. Interesting. How did you feel about all the fame and attention? I think I was fine with it. And like my whole life is like weird because of it. Like everything I do, you're in public. So you just like do weird things. Like there's people walking. So you just kind of turn or like, you're not just gonna, I'm not just gonna like stand there. You know, it's like, I mean, if I was like in an airport waiting for like a suitcase, you know, you're gonna like kind of stand behind the like pillar, you're not just gonna stand. It's all like that. And it never bugged me or anything. I just like, I got it. I was like, okay, this is how things go now. That's a really healthy way to look at it. Cause I think that's a unique perspective. Like I feel like a lot of people feel like they don't have autonomy over their life once they get famous. And you're like chilling. Like I get followed every time, not every time that I get followed when I leave my house. I don't know how I try to like go different ways and stuff like that. And so like, I like to go to the grocery store and I like to do all that stuff, but I have to be in the headspace to like energetically, energetically handle it, which I'm totally fine with too. Like, do you really want your picture taken like this? If you walk out right now, are you okay with it? You know what I mean? It's like, you have to think about that. That's, I mean, I am really pleased by your answer. Like there is no right or wrong answer. Like I've had musicians sit here and be like, I'm such an introvert, it's really fucking hard. And like, I hate it. And I wish I could just write songs and upload it and never be in public. That's awesome to know that you're someone that's like, I don't really care. It's actually kind of chill. It is what it is. And like I learned it and how to move with it. And it's like, I would never complain about it because what I get to do is fucking awesome. And that's part of it. Like how fucking cool is that? That like people know who I am. That means my music got heard. So fucking true. Turn the TV to TV. Turn the TV to TV. Turn the TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. Turn TV to TV. That is so nice. You're so sweet. Now I've had, I like ask people too, like guys are like, you're just like, like more like, I don't know what the word is, like soft, like feminine, more than a girly or something. I think people because of like my, maybe my music videos, think I'm like, like all the time I'm not. I'm actually like, well, what do you think? What is your take on me? Yeah, I mean, just now trying to think about it, because I think when you were younger, I really, and I was younger, I channeled like, oh, this girl's sad and angry. Like because- I know it was like angry Avril. Yeah, and I think that was like, but now it's kind of really incredible to like get to sit across from you and hear you be like, some of these songs I was writing, like there was a girl I knew, and I was like writing about her. And then like, it really wasn't that deep. Like my boss fucking fired me from my chicken spot. And so I'm like, fuck you, I wish I got my extra 20 and my new, my other paycheck. Like I think it's, I do think though I don't take back though, like I loved how deep those songs were and see they were, because I felt like a lot of people needed that, that type of music back then. Like I think you're right. There was so much like pop and princess. And it was like, woo, like let's shake our bodies and beat. And I'm like, I don't, my, my crush that doesn't even know I exist broke up with me and he didn't even know he broke up with me, but he didn't look at me today. So I'm heartbroken and I'm going to go listen to losing grip and I'm going to fucking cry. I needed that. Okay. I don't need like a shake your body and dance and be happy. Sure. Maybe on a Friday night, but like I and that era needed that depressing-esque music. Yeah. Is that fucked up to say? Yeah. But it's nice to know you weren't depressed, I guess. I mean, I mean, I went through it all. And I was like a teenager and feeling the feels and I was definitely like and like emo and like going through it and like feeling it all. And it's like, I don't want to write a song about being happy because it's going to be kind of like cheesy and like not that cool. Kind of go and do that right now. I'm like, I don't know what to write about because like, it's just like, that's the thing. It's like an intense emotion. Like head above water was like a really dark, heavy song for me. Like kind of like near death experience, like one of the hardest things I've ever gone through in my life. But like, you know, really easy to write about. It's literally like laying there in bed like I'm dying and I'm accepting it. Oh, there's a song. Got it. And I literally grabbed my phone and like the song like channeled me. Are you referencing when you got sick? Yeah. OK. And that was really kind of like what, two plus years of your life? You were like in bed. Yeah, it was like I was kind of like bedridden for a couple of years and like, and then like, you know, you got like stronger coming out of that. And that's something like rocks you pretty hard, but like, I'm really grateful to be like on the other other end of that. And so that was like a really in. I'll think twice about riding the dirt bikes out in the woods. So these guys next time. Because it was Lyme disease. Yes, all I did was like outside. And it's like, you know, but I get what you're saying. You're like, then you're laying there and you're like, yeah, I can write a depressing song right now because this fuck sucks. But it's like waves of emotion that you're like, yeah. And to and like. I've gone through a lot in my life in love, like tons of ups and downs. And like, you know, I've definitely written like the angry songs and the sad songs and having going through like something hard in life. It's easy to like sit down at the piano, especially that instrument really pulls it out of me. Um, but unlike my last album, Love Sucks, it was like much lighter, even though it was like a little boy bashing and like poking fun at like love and stuff. It was I kind of like putting a twist on my songs now where it's like, it's like it's funny. It's like I'm just like rolling my eyes at myself. Like not working out again or something and just like having fun with it. I don't like I'm in a phase in a place right now today where I'm writing. I don't really like want it to be like that dark. I say that means nothing at all. Because tomorrow I could write a. And who's song? I think that's something that I never know. Like it's like when I want to be in the kitchen and I'm cooking, I don't know what I'm cooking and it turns into what it turns into. I get a canvas. I love to paint. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like, oh, well, it's cool. That can go on the wall. That one. Not so much. Don't know when you write a song sometimes like you can be intentional with an album, go in and be like, this is my vibe. Or you can just like wing it, right? And to see what kind of comes out and gets put together. I think that some people may not know. Like I love that you said, like when you walked into those meetings, people were like, how is like a 15, 16 year old, 16 year old girl trying to write? Like here, let us give you writers and like just go sing, sweetie. And I think you're such an incredible. I know you're such an incredible writer that like I know one of the fun facts online that everyone still can't get over is that you wrote breakaway for Kelly Clarkson. And that's like a perfect example of like you're so talented. Do you remember writing that song and like was it about a heartbreak? The lyric used to be I grew up in a small town and when the snow would fall down, I would just stare out my window. Oh, my God. I'm actually going to probably will perform that breakaway. Kelly Clarkson's breakaway on the greatest hits tour. That would be fucking amazing. How but how did you decide to get rid of it? I just like wasn't feeling it. Yeah. And I'm so glad I went to her. She killed it. It was a massive hit for her. And yeah, it's kind of like just like growing being from a small town and taking a chance and like going into the big city and going after your dream. There is a crazy rumor out there about you that I obviously have to ask about. And I always ask people when they come on my show, like, oh, what's the craziest rumor that you've ever heard about yourself? I guess I could just first ask you, like, what would you answer before I ask you? Oh, yeah, that one. I know what you're talking about. I mean, it's just funny to me. Like on like one end, everyone's like, and you look the exact same. You haven't aged a day, but then other people are like, you know, there's a conspiracy theory that I'm not me. There is a. Cool. Honestly, it's not that bad. It could be worse, right? Like, I feel like I got a good one. But is it OK? I don't think it's like negative or anything like creepy. It's like, it's all. Averill, Averill, this conspiracy theory about you is a little creepy. Come on. Oh, no. Yeah, I don't know. It could be worse. It could. Yeah. Yeah. No, you could be getting like online. Obviously, I am. Me. It's so dumb. To people that don't understand just to give people context, there's a conspiracy theory that Avril Lavigne is no longer with us. And there is a woman named Melissa who took over and you. I can't even say seriously. You sitting across to me, you are Melissa. And there are like conspiracy theories that run so fucking deep. Like, does it annoy you that there will be people that comment on this episode being like, that's Melissa, that's not Avril. When did it start? My second album? Like, I don't even know. I think like from the beginning ish second album. I don't know. And why do you think people think that? I think that they done that with other artists. I'm not the only one. I think like other people have that. I feel like yours is like really prominent. Oh, I mean, I feel like you might believe that. I'm honestly the one that started the conspiracy. I'm one of those freak bloggers that's like I went undercover to interview Melissa. No, but it's it's fucking crazy. And I just have empathy for you, but it's good again to know you don't give a fuck where people are like, oh, Melissa showed up today. And I'm like, I remembered like being like, what are people talking about? And then I went and started looking and like, oh, people are fucking insane. So you don't care. We're over it. OK, so your name is Avril Lavigne. Yeah. But I knew you have believed it. I'm telling you what's crazy is you haven't aged. I'm staring at you and like I'm picturing you with your like auburn hair and I'm like, oh, my God, you literally look the same from when you were younger. You're beautiful. I got your love life. Your career exploded when you were so young. Like, were you still able to go on dates with guys and then not be freaked out? But I never really did the dating thing. I was always like in a pretty major relationship. Your relationship girl. Yeah. What are you like in a relationship? I'm fucking awesome. I would date me. I love that. I cook. I'm a really big cook, really big into like the house and decorating. And I have like a lot of fun with that. So, yeah, I'd always have people over at my house, throw parties, cook big, huge dinners at the dining room table. I'm going to order that keg sand. There is going to be a full bar. We are going to have beer pong and stay up until the sun comes up. It's going to be a good time. And there will be Hello Kitty Instagram calls. Matching tattoos involved. All of my tattoos were drunk tattoos. And like they'd be boring if I was sober. All of them are drunk. So let's get this beer and then we'll call my tattoo. We'll go to Shamrock on sunset. OK, so all these are drunk tattoos? Yeah, I like the Skaterboy star was my first tattoo. I was 19 and then. Do your parents have tattoos? All my tattoos are. Oh, I have tattoos on my hips. No, I think I'm the only one in the family, really, with a bunch of tattoos. My dad had a couple. OK. What is the hardest lesson you've ever learned about love? I mean, I definitely went through my like jaded phase with my previous album called Love Sucks. And I had gone into a place of. All right, I'm just going to like focus on myself. I'm going to move to Malibu. I'm going to build my own life for me. And I'm not going to like wait for a guy or rely on a guy to like do that. And I definitely felt like I had the wind knocked out of me. I had been through like enough and it was definitely like never. I was in a place of like never trust a guy again. And just like you're going to have to like rely on yourself. But I don't feel that way today, thankfully. That's amazing. Yeah. Have you ever been cheated on? Have I been with a male before? Then the answer is yes. Much as anyone's ever fucked me over, which has happened a shit ton. I've always just like been the classy bitch and taken the high road and kept kept it to myself. I appreciate that. I think a lot of people stay in things because they're like nervous to start over. I think that's like a really normal feeling, especially for women. It's like, yeah, people are fearful, fearful. Do you have any advice of like how to know when to move on and like how to get yourself out of something that's like maybe comfortable? But you know, you need to like be on your own and be single. It's hard when you're in something because like you're in it. So, you know, it's a big deal to leave a relationship to to change is hard to have to step out. It requires a lot, you know, and some people can't see like that. Clearly, it's like always easier once you're on the other end. But if you're not happy, you're never going to be happy. And life is short and you should just really get out as soon as possible so you can move on and then, you know, have a better future for yourself. Some people like to have like something that they're leaving and going to. And, you know, sometimes you have to take that leap of faith and just trust that. If you're not happy, it's not a healthy relationship. It's not a good situation just to get out and it's OK to have like time on your own in between if you need it and, you know, just believe in the hope that something greater is out there for you. And if not, you're better off on your own than someone draining the fuck out of you. Facts, thank you. Are you seeing anyone right now? Maybe. Now I know, even if you were, you're never going to fucking tell me. Maybe. Oh, OK, what do you look for in a partner? Do you remember? Oh, kind of. OK, let's try it again. Fuck your boy. My question. OK. Here. Fuck. OK, do it again. Do it again. OK. OK. That's pretty good. And are you a beer drinker? I am when I'm like whether I'm like outside for summer, like I'm not drinking beer usually if it's like winter, but if it's like summer, I like to drink it like with Matt, if I'm sitting outside with my dogs, like it's like a chill drink, if I'm like, oh, I don't want to be drinking tequila tonight, I will drink beer and also in college. Are you kidding me? I was drinking Matties like a freak and like it was bad and beer ponging and everything. So like any day, any time, any time in California, you could be a beer drinker. Absolutely. Exactly. Pinch of Bain yet. You should come to my house in Malibu. We'll have a beer day and play beer pong. And you'll answer some of my questions off camera. Yeah. Oh, honey, if you only knew. You're giving us blue balls. OK, what are you? OK, so you may be seeing someone. What do you look for in a partner? So I think the most important thing is finding someone that you're compatible with because you could be two different great people. But if you're not compatible, you're not going to get along. So like you're going to argue. So compatibility, obviously, it all just sounds cliche. Someone that is trustworthy because if you don't have that, you're just never going to feel grounded in the relationship and you're going to be spinning. So that's just not healthy. I'm looking for, you know, I a healthy relationship is ideal. Duh. Yeah. But like do we really have to say these things are so simple and cliche and basic? But that's what you need. No, it's true. Compatibility, trust, like. Do you have a type? I don't think I have a type, but like someone who's at least like I think someone who's like me, who's like sporty, got a little rough around the edges, likes to have a good time, but is like, you know, a solid. I need someone who's like a solid that I can lean on to. Yeah. Oh, my God, would you ever date like an athlete? What about a hockey player? No. You're like there to. No, what about a guy from Canada that's on the in the NHL? Come on. Wait, that's fucking perfect. No, we're done with the rappers. Did you ever date Tiger? You're like, get out of here. We did it annoy you that every time you upload something with Tiger, people are like, is this your announcement that you're dating or you don't care? Like I didn't Google myself. Is that what it says? Yes, Melissa, it says. You're like, but you really believe it. I promise I don't. What does it take for a guy to impress you on a first date? I think I've changed a lot in my expectations and what I am looking for, because I've like, you know, learned through my experiences and just, you know, I'm into something that's just like. Stable, healthy, fun, just well rounded. Yeah. What? Like this shit just sounds super cheesy. So I don't write love songs. Overall, this is good. This is like therapy. Like you can totally be happy and say happy thoughts, but then like, please keep writing bangers that like make me cry. Like, although like girlfriend was like not pop. Well, that was actually not happy. That was actually dark. It was just like sassy and cocky. I don't like your girlfriend. I think you need a new one. I could be your girlfriend. Oh, my God, I wrote that fucking song in two minutes. That chorus, literally two minutes. I was like putting my book bag on, leaving the studio is like 11 o'clock at night. And I was like, play me a riff because we were borrowing. We had this like amazing Les Paul and I was I was talking to Luke and I was like, yo, play me something like punk rock right now. And he's like, Darren, and I was like, hey, you I don't like a girlfriend. And he's like, and we're like, no way. And he's like, think you need a new one. And I was like, hey, you I could be a girlfriend. Literally, he puts the drums to it. Two minutes wrote that put it on a CD. I got a CD put in my car and I took it home. I was like, this is going to be the song of the summer. It was and I knew it. And my body has done that to me like with my happy ending. I say we were in the studio. It made a song. I came in after I was done singing it sat down. They played me the song and I was like, I just got this entire feeling over my body. And I just like, I can't explain it. I was like, it was like, I knew it was big, but I wasn't like, this is a hit. Like I didn't like talk like that. But I was like, this is going to be like I could feel it. Like I knew it was going to be a big song for me. The same with complicated lane in the grass in California, one of my first trips in the round the orange trees with writing with Lauren and we're like working on this song. And I just remember like sitting on the floor and I'm like, I hear this on the radio. Like I have like these really strong feelings with like some of my big songs. Do you remember? I never had that feeling with a song that didn't like. That's wild. Yeah. When you came up with complicated, was that one where you were actually like experiencing it in your life or you were just like, I just was kind of like it just felt right. And I like came up with this verse and it worked. I would had a couple of weeks or a month with the Matrix and Lauren and I were just like getting blow drys and like getting cupcakes and Ralph's and like sitting in the backyard and just talking. And I was just like, you know, like I love skater boys. And this is the only type of guy I'm attracted to. I will literally walk down the street and I see someone wearing big, fat skate shoes. And I will look twice. And so it's like our conversations and then, you know, them as a team, working musically on stuff and us all getting together and just complicated. Skater Boy, I'm with you. Those are the singles off the first album. Where were you when you wrote I'm with you? We were sitting on the piano. It was like that one's that was like one of those days where you're like getting in touch with the sad, like more like depressed, like self. And that's that's OK. And, you know, people, you know, really connected with that song. And still to this day, that's like one of my favorite songs to perform live. It's fucking powerful. Like even to me, twenty two years later, I play that fucking shit on stage. I'm seeing people like we're going from like all the pop rock songs. Everyone's like fist pumping and like losing their shit. I go into that tears. People like move and it's like you see all the different emotions. And that's why writing is important to me, because I'm so connected to the songs. I think there's something with like my. Me being like super authentic in the way that like I dressed and like wrote the songs and just the way I was and didn't give a fuck and wasn't calculated and it was all that and that people really like were attracted to that and and like connected with that. Well, yeah, because when you look at someone in the industry, you can literally tell like and I'm not being like rude. It's just obvious when someone has been like constructed by like these dance moves and this song and this is I'm like, you didn't write that song. You wouldn't wear that if a stylist like the stylist put that on you. You can tell like you've been yourself since day one and you've stuck up for what you believe in, literally from the fashion to your writing, to your sound, to your look like think I'll be a straightener. Now you're happy. I want to see your. I didn't want to think about what I was wearing today. And I was like, oh, my God, you have this really cool like sweat line. It's called on well. Yeah. That's so cool. I was like, oh, yeah, I just want to like pull up and like wear sweats. And instead I just wore the like shirt. I was like wearing the night before I literally did it for two days. I'm obsessed. I know, because when I thought you were going to wear sweats, I was like, oh, my God, I would totally give you sweats, but this outfit is so cute. I'm going to I will put the sweats on and go home and veg in them for three days. Thank you. No, April, I just want to say thank you for coming because like I had no idea what to expect, obviously, meeting you. I was like, obviously, hoping that we would hit it off because again, like I'm such a huge fan, but it's fascinating and it was incredible to meet you and to like listen to where you came from and your upbringing and your story and like how fucking talented you are. Like the way that I'm sorry, like I could listen to you for 10 more hours, talk about your songwriting process, because again, like we don't see that that often. Nowadays, I feel like a lot of people are just like very manufactured and you are such an artist from the start to finish. I think this tour and this album is like I'm freaking out about it. So I can imagine all of your other friends or fans are also freaking. What do you hope they take away from this tour when they come? It's just like for the fans that have been with me from day one, it's just like even for myself, it's just all the years and all the different eras and all the different phases in our in our lives from like high school to this day to that day and connecting with the songs and like you hear a song and it takes you back. I even hear like one of my songs and it takes me back to like that time of my life. It's like it's been, you know, so long. It's been 22 years and I feel like I have like another 22 ahead of me. But it's a journey of our lives. It like takes us back to high school, college, like this phase, that phase, that relationship this summer, that summer. And that's like the power and beauty in music is like it can take you right back there. You can feel it all over again. I think it's just like a celebration of life, our lives and remembering like all the good times and music does that. And I think the shows are going to be like super fun. I'm stoked to be going back out on tour, my seventh world tour. And I'm like so grateful to like be from a tiny little town, you know, playing hockey and skateboarding and to have been able to like write music and to have it be successful internationally and to have like to still be doing my thing. Today, I'm like looking forward to like growing like creatively and dipping my toes in to in the, you know, other creative waters and doing film and like turning Skaterboy into a movie and like, you know, all that other stuff. So I'm super grateful, but I just want everybody to have a good time and most importantly, I want to have a good time. Last question, what are the top three favorite songs for you that you're going to be performing? Like if you had to pick my own song, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're going out there from the album and on this tour, like what are your top three favorites to perform if you had to pick? I know that's hard. Well, it's funny because there's no new songs. So like I definitely want to bring a cover song in. And I recently just met up with the Green Day Boys and gave them an award at the I Heart Awards and it's like seeing them again. I was like, these guys are cool. Like Dukie was one of the first CDs like my brother and I had and like they're celebrating that right now. And so like I definitely want to do a Green Day cover. And Girlfriend is really fun. I love I'm with you. My happy ending. So good. And of course, Skaterboy. Skaterboy. Boom. Avril, thank you so much. And maybe I'll put the tie on for you. Please send me a picture. You have to come out to the LA show. Please. Oh, wait, that's when you're going to wear it. Please. Like literally, please. Like make me feel so special. But you and your hubby should come to the show. Oh my God, we would love to. I would love to come. Thank you for coming on the show. You can go to bed now. I love you.