Delegate Michael Webert: How Regulatory Reform Saved Virginians Thousands

Everything that we do in government is a trade-off. It really is a trade-off. And so it's a matter of, we'll just talk about healthcare as a good example. Healthcare is so highly regulated that it almost doesn't matter which section you're talking about, whether it be insurance, whether it be pharmaceuticals, whether it be, you know, your hospital. They are so highly regulated that whenever you try to tweak it, it's going to tweak something else. And I've discovered this, that, you know, if you're going to address pharmaceuticals and some of the things that happen there, so for instance, you know, the use of patents to be able to protect a profit margin, things like that where you're trying to tweak it, but then it's going to, they're shifting costs. And I think, in my opinion, healthcare, so many of our industries, when they face huge amounts of regulation. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American Potential. Hey everyone, welcome to the American Potential Podcast. I'm your host, David Farr. You know, if you're someone who's interested in history, you'll hopefully like this episode because our guest today not only talks about history and is well-deceived in history, but he made history as part of the 1960 Civil Rights Movement. So before we get to him, I want to bring in engineer Matt to talk about some of the cool historical places that he's been and being able to visit Matt. Tell me about, you know, I, like I said, I'm excited to talk to Clarence about his participation in history. Some of us haven't been as active in major historical events, but we've seen a lot of cool stuff that reminds us of our history as Americans. What's some of the stuff you've seen? Oh, well, for one, traveling with this show gets you out and seeing awesome historical stuff all the time. And we had some really cool opportunities to, well, for example, we did go to Philadelphia. That was very historical and cool. And then I also, I might have mentioned this once before on the show. I am a little bit of a World War Two history buff and I really enjoyed visiting the battleship New Jersey. And they've got it as a museum now. It's, it's a really cool, I mean, one of the last great World War Two battleships. That was neat. And then we got the film not too long ago at a World War Two destroyer right in front of it on the pier there. So that was cool. That was the USS Orlex. So for me, those are, we get a little bit of a World War Two history guy. Those are really fun for me. No, that's cool. I love, because there's so many different eras. I mean, that's one of the fun things about enjoying history. I've always loved history. That's what got me involved in interested in politics. I can't believe it when my kids don't love history. I'm like, no, this documentary really is cool. We should go to this place. But, you know, for me, some of the highlights, I've been to the Alamo, down in San Antonio, which is kind of cool. I mean, the story of the Alamo is cool. It's certainly like everyone else says, it's smaller than you realize. But it was pretty cool to be like, all right, this is the Alamo. Pretty iconic. You know, a lot of sites in Virginia, I've been to, you know, in Richmond, you know, seeing places like, you know, like the old say capital. The say capital in Virginia is pretty cool because, you know, Jefferson designed it. You know, you can't, you wander around Virginia, just bump into places. I grew up near Morristown, where George Washington's headquarters was during the world, you know, Revolutionary War. And then, you know, recently we were up in Boston, you know, and saw where the Boston Tea Party was and went to the Tavern, where the Sons of Liberty were formed, and went to Cheers. Hmm. See, can't forget that. Maybe not quite the same, but it's still good times. There's a little difference in the level of history between, you know, the Tea Party and Cheers, but I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. Well, our guest today has lived in a pretty amazing life and made a lot of, you know, made a lot of history. So, very interested in talking about it. Saving money is something we all try to do, right? I mean, whether it's finding coupons, waiting for something to go on sale, or just try not to spend more than we have to. So let's imagine if a state government actually tried to do the same. There are some states that actually have put mechanisms in place that if a regulation costs a certain amount, the state legislature has to vote on it. Which is, you know, that's a pretty good way of keeping things in check. So, as some states are reviewing new regulations, others are taking a look at the regulations they already have to see if changes need to be made. One state, Virginia, has an office of regulatory management, which has generated a significant amount in annual savings. But this office could end up going away due to a change in the governorship and state leadership. Let's talk about what's going on with our guest today, who represents Virginia's 61st District, Delegate Michael Weaver. Delegate, thanks for joining. Oh, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, well, you guys are in the fight. I mean, I know there's been a lot of changes in leadership in Virginia over the last year plus, and that resulted in, you know, some real challenges for those of us who value, you know, more liberty and free markets and less spending. But, so I'm very interested to hear kind of about what's been going on specifically around the regulatory fights. But before we get to that, I mean, you're also, you're a farmer. Oh, yeah. So maybe give us a little bit of your background as to how you came into it, how your family came to be farming, and, you know, what that has been like and how that's led you to run a for office, too. Well, so I guess it kind of leads to how I came into office in general. I, you know, as a young kid, my first business was basically running a custom hay operation. We went around and picked up square bales and threw them on a wagon and, you know, stacked them for the local farmers in the area. And it was really funny because I never visited a weight room during football season. I was always working. Just, you know, the typical farm, you know, corn fed farmer. And then my grandmother, when I had taken a leave, I guess from college for a little bit, and went back, was living on my grandmother's farm on our main farm and decided to give it a go and take over and manage it. And, you know, we were in the Angus business. That's how I met my wife. And just kind of grew the business over time. And then the seat came open and I was asked to run, partly because I've been so involved in the community, Farm Bureau or local livestock exchange and all that stuff. And then also, and just to kind of segue into regulatory reform. I mean, I still remember my first jaunt to go into D.C. to lobby was really to say, hey, we have so many regulations that are so burdensome on us. We need to, you know, we need to shrink it, but we also, please just leave us alone. It's kind of where it, how I got kind of got started in it. And that's where we got into the regulatory reform and, you know, ORM, the Office of Regulatory Management, that Governor Yonkin put in place, it's really an extension of House Bill, I think it was 833 that we passed. I was the patron, but we passed it under the Northam administration with the then Speaker Cox's leadership on that too. And it was the largest regulatory reform that the Commonwealth had ever seen. And it really focused on the throne of office and regulatory management and licensing. And it all, you know, transpired with the great thing takes like the Mercatus Center, you know, Alec, you know, AFP, basically looking it up, everything and going, okay, how can we shrink the burdensome regulations that are there in the Commonwealth and the regulatory requirements? I mean, how many forms do we have to fill out just to be able to do something in the United States now, you know? And so that's how we got started and Governor Yonkin really, really last onto that. And I will tell you that the Office of Regulatory Management and the regulatory reform that, like, he undertook at Department of Environmental Quality really has saved the taxpayers an immense amount of money. I think they calculated it out for the cost of a house. I think just from the regulatory reform that they underwent at DEQ was the savings of about $26,000 for a house. Wow. Yeah. And that's real, real calculated money that people are saving buying houses due to regulatory reform. That's a great way to bring it home, bring it home to people, so to speak. Well, I mean, you mentioned in your introduction that, you know, what is the cost of regulations? And I think to me that's also, it kind of counts as a hidden tax sometimes. It just adds to the inflation of the cost of goods. And, you know, while government is there to be a referee and also help, you know, make sure that things are done safely and things like that, at times I do believe that the bureaucrats are just trying to keep their jobs. Yeah. Yeah, I don't disagree. We've talked a lot about regulatory issues on the show. And I remember talking to the head of the farm bureau up in Pennsylvania, and he's a hog farmer, and he was talking to us about some specific things with regard to how it just impacts every part of his business and, you know, other farmers that he's talking to. So like in your life, you know, your day job as a farmer, like how have you seen regulation impact, you know, your business? Oh, so I still remember this was the Obama rule. The waters of the U.S. when they were trying to expand waters of the U.S. We brought out folks from EPA and some of the just the rule makers and said, look, if the rule goes through as written, I lose this much ground. And by the way, I mean, we're in the drought now. That's acres that I wouldn't be able to graze. The other thing too is, and I'll tell the story because it was literally this morning. So I bought a brand, I bought a new tractor first new piece, new piece of new equipment we've we've purchased in a long time, and it's an expensive piece of equipment. Right. So, but it also has the death fluid with it. And so when you if it's a diesel, a diesel engine, any diesel like your on-road diesel engines, they have death fluid and it helps clean the the the the the the what's coming out of the exhaust, right? And so they've they've taken the point where now they do this on the tractors for cleaner environment. But what we've discovered is on a brand new tractor, the death fluid, we're burning through death fluid. So not only that, do you add an extra 10,000 to $15,000 for the engine? You have an extra basically added cost because I have to buy this death fluid, which is basically urea and have to add it in order to scrub the the exhaust on a tractor. And the tractors not nearly as efficient. My 1992 tractor, I can fill up and it will run for a week. And to be honest, I bet you would probably amidst the same. And that's just the that's the that's the cost of overregulated overregulating overburdening things trying to accomplish a goal that is just adding to the cost of doing business. We see it all the time. Yeah, we hear about it across the country. I mean, I've talked to folks in Alaska, folks in Wyoming, Utah, and it's all the different shapes and sizes. It's at the federal level, it's at the state level, it's the local level. And we talked to guys who have food trucks in Georgia, and you know, they're they're talking about it and how they can't do business or trying, you know, and and all of it doesn't just does not seem common sensical. It feels like if everybody could just kind of go with the smell test or do something that's common sensical, you can feel up and are off. Maybe I'm just naive that way. But you guys have been trying to, you know, I think the reform you guys made over the last decade in Virginia, which you're trying to preserve has really been effective. The number you say, what 26,000 per home saved you to streamline regulation is pretty phenomenal. So maybe talk to me a little bit more about the Office of Regulatory Management and what it actually does to save money. Yeah. So, so basically, when I was when I was talking about the first bit of reform that we did, one of the big feedbacks that we got was that the there was a lot of busy work in trying to identify those regulations and things like that. And it would be really nice to have it housed in one spot and have, you know, one or two people that are that their whole job is to focus on regulatory reform, collect all the data, work on trying to streamline those things. And so Governor Young can took that to heart and said, OK, we're going to we're going to create the office. And they then they then what they did to is they also started using artificial intelligence in order to go through the code and identify needless regulation. But then they also took away that busy work and the executive branch and ordered it to expand it along the entire executive branch. And then he also had cabinet secretaries like my girl band and who has been so involved in like, you know, water. His big my girl bands first business was was water conservation and stream bank then saying things like that. And so he is the master at this stuff. And so what he did was he started streamlining things along with the Office of Regulatory Management. They work together. This is the best example. They work together and figured out that if they could streamline it, streamline the permitting process and make it faster. Not only are they just making it easier on business general, but they're making it faster. And we all know that time is money. And then also just lowering that the identifying duplicative regulations and things like that, then they can what they did was they took away that burden on business business. They were able to function faster. They were able to function with a whole lot less burden, i.e., you know, manpower trying to, you know, go along with the regulations. I think that's that's where that's where you see a big savings. If you could really streamline some regulation, I don't know what you've seen across the country. But from what I've talked to you with some of my colleagues, when you have a business, it's no longer having to dedicate five lawyers to just, you know, making sure that they comply with things. That frees up a whole lot of economic empowerment that that business can use in order to to grow. And I think that's a great thing. Now, I mean, I think we all agree that fewer lawyers might be better. So when I came in, I'll tell the story. When I came in, my predecessor was was a lawyer. And he later became a judge. But one of my colleagues, he was throwing a fundraiser and he said anytime you can replace a lawyer with a farmer's, it's a good day in the General Assembly. It's America moving in the right direction. Right. Yeah. And at one point, I was the only one. Now I've got a couple, couple, a couple newer colleagues that that also are in the cattle business too. But I just, you know, we talk about regulations. We talk about taxes. I'll just, I'll bring up Virginia, the, the, what we are about to embark on, which is probably one of the dumbest things we can do, which is that we are about to enter into Reggie, the regional greenhouse gas initiative, where we have to pay for the carbon energy that we are producing. Meanwhile, we're also a carbon importer. You know, you mentioned Pennsylvania, they were at least smart enough not to join. But we just went through the new auction with Reggie. And it was like, I think it was $35 for a, for a credit when in 2020 when Governor Yonkin wisely said, we're not going to participate. It was like 12 or not even. Yeah, I think it was about 12. So now you're looking at if that, if that those prices stay just to comply with Reggie, you're looking at about $800 million tax on the rate payers of the Commonwealth. Virginia just to comply. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, we've been involved with, you know, kind of fighting Reggie in, particularly in New England states, obviously Virginia, but Virginia, you know, Governor Yonkin kind of did the good thing there. And I mean, even, you know, very liberal left leaning New England states even decided not to go along with it at times. They usually, they usually get pressured into it. And it's just, you know, why? We're just costing taxpayers so much more money. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Well, not only that, but I discovered so, you know, the whole, the whole goal is to, to shrink carbon emissions, right? But the, the, what I've discovered too is you have entities that are participating in these auctions that don't produce power. All there, there is, all there, there to do is buy up the allotments so that the price goes higher to make it more painful so we don't have our carbon emitting, you know, our carbon emitting generation. But the problem is, part of the reason our power bills are going up is because we don't have what I call dispatchable generation. And it's because of the environmental regulations that the Democrats imposed in 2020 with the Virginia Clean Economy Act, along with, you know, Maryland and New Jersey and those states that also imposed all of those regulations. And so now we're importing all of our, you know, a lot of our energy and the energy that when you, when it's 20 below extreme example, but you go and you go into your house and you turn on your heat and you turn on your light. It needs to work and that energy is more expensive because solar, it doesn't produce power at night. So, so that's, that's, I mean, just yet another example of what over burdensome regulation does to the average citizen. Well, in, in Virginia, it's even working against Virginians and working against yourselves. And all the way down to the point of that, you know, Western Virginia has plenty of natural resources and energy producing businesses and lots of great resources that can help Virginians and other people. I mean, it's a boon to the economy, but like, keep trying to penalize it. It's not going to be able to stay forever. Well, and that's, I mean, that's exactly, you're exactly right. You're exactly right. And it punishes those parts of Virginia. And then we also have the other issue where the Democrats would like to see, you know, huge land masses covered in solar so that they can feel good about turning on their, their lights. And the problem is, you know, for me, it's, well, where are we going to grow our food? And, you know, my constituents don't want to see all of their land in solar. They want to see a beautiful vista of the Blue Ridge and the historical landmarks that make Virginia what it is. You know. The new governor and you went through your first legislative session. I know you guys fended off a lot of attacks or, you know, bad policy. And there's been an attempt to dismantle some of the good policy that had been passed in the previous administration. I imagine the next legislative sessions and other fight and then some what with regard to the regulatory regiment you guys have in place, which seems to have been, you know, very successful. What do you think is the future there? Personally, I think under the current administration, as well as the fact that the Democrats have the trifecta, they have a majority in the House and a majority in the Senate. I would venture to say that a large portion of our regulatory reform is going to disappear. I think that the governor, so for instance, her, I forget what he, I call him the energies are, which is a new position. She's already added to the bureaucracy. You've got a director of the, you know, of energy already. And now she's added in energies are who's who's so goals to make energy more affordable. But everything that they've done is made energy more expensive. I think, I think in their effort to accomplish their altruistic goals, we're just going to see an influx of regulation. And their biggest thing is they want to take away local control of everything so that, you know, a locality can't say, hey, we are a steward of the taxpayer dollars. If we put housing here, we put industry here, we put, you know, we put industry here. This is where we're going to have all of the infrastructure for it. They're taking that away and it's going to be very, and it's only for certain things. You know, they're going to pick and choose that they're not going to, they're going to say, okay, housing, you can build wherever you want. Well, now what are you going to do when you have to put in a highway? You know, where are your tax dollars going to go for that? And while we would like to see some regulatory reform in that, we still need a look, some local zoning to know that we can say, okay, we're going to put all our industry here, which we have. My house is just up from an industrial area and now we're, you know, they're working and building it out now. But I think what you're going to have particularly is so they, you know, they want to do a great thing. They want to lower regulations on housing. But then they also do the same thing and say, well, you have to keep all the old treats or, you know, you have to have X number of canopy or you have, you know, it's just, it's, it's those types of things that when they add up, all of a sudden you're that $26,000 that the governor just saved is gone when it comes to the housing regulations. So when you listen to your colleagues across the aisle and they're proposing, you know, kind of dismantling what's been very positive, streamlining regulations, is there one set of argument or is there, what's the, what's the line of justification from them? I think, I think everybody lives in asylum. I mean, I think, I think they're looking at their, their area. They're looking in Northern Virginia and they're saying, okay, this is what we're, this is what's going to happen. You know, we have these issues, so we're going to put in all these regulations and that the problem is that also negatively affects the rest of the state. And so, and then you also forget that, oh, there's a whole set of federal regulations when it comes to this. So I think one of the best examples of regulatory reform that, well, a very small example, but it's a very good example is the fact that in Virginia now when you're looking at, looking at some of these older, these older buildings like that have, you know, storefronts on the bottom, like on the old Main Street, you've got storefront on the bottom, but you have apartments up top. We no longer regulate two staircases. You know, we're going more towards Europe where you can have one staircase, because if you were to redevelop that, you need two staircases, you just added $100,000 to that project. And so, you know, it's looking at that and going, okay, we need to do that. We've got a couple of Democrats that are willing to look at stuff like that, but then others that they just, they're not. They're, okay, we want, you've got to make sure you maintain 20% of the tree canopy when you're redeveloping an area. You've got to, you know, make sure that certain regulations are there, stormwater regulations are there. That's where the Department of Environmental Quality made a lot of headway was in stormwater regulations. They streamlined it, but yet here we are adding more credits, adding more this and that to the cost of it. And I don't think they realize that it's death by a thousand cuts. Yeah, I think that's so true. I think a lot of people are well-meaning and are like, well, what about this? What about this? But everything is a trade-off, you know, and everything comes at a cost. I do think that there are some folks who don't share a worldview who really do want to control things and want to use the regulatory, shooting regulatory process to kind of impose their view of the world. I think Reggie goes towards that, for instance. We can talk about, you know, carbon tax credits and stuff. I think there is a desire to control behavior on the part of some. But I think a lot of times it's people looking at just their own little slice of the pie and saying, oh, well, we can make things better this way, and make things better this way, rather than entrusting the people to make things as good, you know, acting on our self-interest, trying to make them as good as they could be. You know, it's kind of a top-down approach rather than a bottom-up approach. I agree. And I mean, you mentioned trade-offs. The interesting thing about it is everything that we do in government is a trade-off. It really is a trade-off. And so it's a matter of, so we'll just talk about healthcare as a good example. Healthcare is so highly regulated that it almost doesn't matter which section you're talking about, whether it be insurance, whether it be pharmaceuticals, whether it be, you know, your hospital. They are so highly regulated that whenever you try to tweak it, it's going to tweak something else. And I've discovered this, that, you know, if you're going to address, like, pharmaceuticals and some of the things that happen there. So for instance, you know, the use of patents to be able to protect a profit margin, things like that, where you're trying to tweak it, but then it's going to, they're shifting costs. And I think, in my opinion, healthcare, so many of our industries, when they face huge amounts of regulation, the only people that can really survive are the big guys, because that's where you're seeing this massive consolidation of companies. And it's because you end up, the little guy isn't allowed to thrive, because they can't overcome the regulatory burden that's put in front of them just to get started. You know, it's like licensing. Licensing can be just a huge barrier to entry when it comes to certain industries. You know, the regulatory reform that we passed in 2018, I think is a perfect example. You know, I think at that point, cosmetology, it was 390 hours to get your license or something, and now they're down to like 300 a little less. But I mean, that's a perfect example. I mean, we had so many things that would come, oh, well, a hair braider needed a cosmetology license. And then we were like, okay, well, no, they're just braiding hair. It's like, well, why don't we take a look at the whole thing and say, okay, you know, why can't a person voluntarily enter the marketplace and say, I'm going to, I'm really good at braiding hair and have people pay them for it? Instead, the state says, oh, no, you need a cosmetology license. Because of all the risks involved with hair braiding. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, and that's, I mean, that's, you see it, you see those types of examples everywhere. And I think that's where the Office of Regulatory Management under Yonkin came in with such a good example of innovation in that it, that's its sole purpose. You know, when you have an office and like that, and their sole purpose is to look at all that stuff and say, yeah, we don't really need that. I think that's a good thing. And if they can do it bureaucratically as opposed to through the legislature, that makes things even easier. Because as you mentioned, I believe there are people that want to use the regulatory process to impose their worldview on the way we do things. And, you know, if you have an office like Yonkin did, they kind of can nick that in the butt, kind of speak. Well, you know, it strikes me that, you know, the regulatory stuff often isn't the sexy issue that people want to talk about. But it's kind of the meat and potatoes that when you do it right, you end up with more affordable housing. You end up with business unleashed. You allow entrepreneurship. You allow, and so often it's the little guy. I mean, the giant companies and super wealthy folks can afford all the lawyers and accountants and engineers that you need. It's the startup, the person just trying to start out who's over licensed and over regulated, who just gets crushed under the weight of over regulation and can't make it. And so, you know, I do hope that Virginia does not backslide on this because I think that there's been a good culture created there. And, man, you know, I think about America's 250th birthday and it's, you know, no Virginia is, you know, top of the heap when it comes to the state state, you know, that have a great legacy and have something to say about, you know, the declaration and the principles that are enshrined in it. And, you know, I'd love to see Virginia continue to lead the way. I mean, as would I. As would I. I think you pointed out this. It's the small guy. I mean, look at the look at the companies that started out in a garage and now are, you know, multi-billion dollar trillion dollar companies. And, you know, part of that is because the world hadn't tried to regulate them at all. And all of a sudden you have you have you have this this this massive business that was created in a in a garage or, you know, a guy who decided that one day he would just go out on his own. As a plumber and all of a sudden now he's got a massive business running, you know, 150 trucks and, you know, a few hundred employees and he's just they're just doing well. And that's that's the kind of American exceptionalism that we want to see. And, you know, as you brought up the 250th anniversary in Virginia, because, you know, we kind of kind of created everything. I'm a little partial. I've heard that before whenever I'm a little poor. So I mean, I like to point out that Sam Houston was a Virginian. So I, you know, every time I see Texans, I'm like, we're your father. That's awesome. So, but I love I love for the governor to be able to do that. I think particularly now with the drama that we've seen and within the Democrats that I'm hoping that she she actually returns to or does what she says when she was talking about moderation. She wanted to be she she kept saying that she was this moderate Democrat, her campaign kept saying that she was moderate Democrat and all of a sudden she went super left with our, you know, redistricting issues. And that kind of thing, but I'm hoping that that at least with all of this drama she can go, you know what regulatory form is one of those things that we can work together on. I mean, for me personally, it's, as you say, it's the meat and potatoes and I'm a meat and potatoes kind of guy, you know, I do farm, you know, throw a big steak on there and I'm even better. Literally a meat guy. Yeah, I'm literally, yeah, literally meat guy. So it's like, okay, let's, you know, let's let's work on that because that that's really you don't, you don't, you don't see it immediately. You see it two to three years later when it's actually making businesses lives easier, your constituent lives easier, and they're they're they're able to have a little bit more money in their pocket. Yeah, well, I wish you the best of the fight. I, you know, I know that you're, like I said, you know, the folks are kind of unaligned or controlling things now, but you've been putting up a good fight. So I think hopefully as we keep showing the benefits of Virginians of, you know, a streamlined regulatory process and people, you know, hopefully everybody wants more affordability for for folks. So I wish you the best in kind of prosecuting the site. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. We need all the help we can get to so. Yeah, well, tell you, thanks a lot. And I hope that that the Americans turned to 50th is like, probably nowhere better to celebrate than than Virginia. So I hope it's a hope it's a wonderful time for everybody. Thank you. It's going to be great. Yeah. Well, folks, if you like this episode, I like to stay connected with the podcast, be sure to like and subscribe to our channel as well as following us on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. And always remember, freedom and liberty are easily taken for granted. Don't take them for granted. Go out there and defend liberty and freedom. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for listening to American Potential. You may listen to more stories from Americans working every day to expand freedom and opportunity in their communities by visiting American Potential.com.