Marc Byers

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm being money! We are Take Take Ralletown We are The authorities On all things R&B Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Tank. I'm Jay Valentine. This is the Army Money Podcast. Yeah. The authority! Yes sir. On all things! That's right. R&B Yeah. And business. Big business. The man comes from the place. Yeah. Yeah. Where soul resides. Shit. Man. If you ever touch the soil and fill the delphier Tales of a man. Oh, who's had his hand in input. On all things! Musicality in the city. And the city of brotherly love! Ah, yeah. This man is considered an uncle to everyone. A family member to everyone. A brother to us. Yeah, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to get right to the shit. Come on. There's a lot of information we got to get to. I'm not going to hold it up any longer. Ladies and gentlemen, we call him Mark. Mark, we're right here. Mark, bye isn't it, brother? Yeah. Thanks for having me, brother. Thanks for having me. Absolutely, man. Welcome. Thank you, man. Hey, we saw what I aged at the game. And I was, because he's just a little bit older than me. He's not that much older than me. You know what I'm saying? This isn't true. But, but, when we get down to the bleachers and I look at them, I'm like, man, maybe I should help my uncle Mark out. You know what I'm saying? He looked at me and said, I wish you were like that. So disrespectful. So disrespectful. So disrespectful. You know that, like, the fight in the city of Brazil. I almost walked away, brother. I know what it is. If I didn't love my walk away, brother, I said this young boy is disrespectful. He crossed the threshold. We want to talk to him. You different. I just, I'm just checking the temperature. You know what I'm saying? The temperature is still the same. No, he want the fight, too. He want the fight. He knows who. Yeah, that's why I have to fight. At 1.26, come over here. I was just kidding. I just love to see if you was awake. We all want to get up. Say hello to Jesus. What's up, brother? I haven't filmed an amazing man. Man, man. And I'm proud of y'all. I love this podcast. Thank you, brother. Thanks for having me. This is why we have it. We feel like there are just so many cool conversations that have to be highlighted so that people can truly see the inner workings of how this thing works, man. And the people responsible, you know what I mean? Because everybody gets to see the finished product, man. I say this all the time. But you never see those people who are sitting in the kitchen. You don't see the person going shopping for the materials. None of that, the meetings that take place before you even put the list together to go grab the essentials. Like who's doing that? We need to know who those people are. Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you at Mark? Why are you writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your writing your be ahead of it. It's just that because not everybody are true creatives. And so our business everybody claims to be because it's the creative industry. But you know, we've seen over the years people that have a gift of making records and a gift of finding talent and developing talent and stuff like that. It's like we can't allow that to be a loss art. And we have to listen. The track record has to tell the story. One million percent. You can't tell me you do this unless and it's not on paper. And it's yeah, and you're how the stripes. I want to see the stripes. I want to see the tide. I think we should start doing that like like the military. Yeah, man. You should have to start wearing your stripes. Where are your stripes, man? Where's your stripes? See you jacket. Yeah, they see you jacket. Yeah, man, because the stripes can't be followers. The stripes can't be followers. It's just true. It's like a lot of people can sit on line all day and figure out a way to get followers. But what's the talent? What's your gift to the business? Yeah, your contribution. One million percent. Yeah. One million percent. Yeah, let's let's get into that. Let's get into that, man. Let's let's get back into them into those original days for you. And your start really in this business, young mark, young mark, young mark. I'm talking about like young mark, because you know, you know, I've had those conversations of, you know, when you when you got into the game and you're really a teenager. Yeah. It's funny, man. Like, you know, I grew up in a neighborhood. There was music around this piece of a dream was across the driveway from me. So I could see them rehearsing, you know, in their garage. It was. Yeah. And then I was my middle school, no, my, yeah, my middle school, I had to walk past Pagli Bell's house every day. What? So I'm deeply entrenched. And it was, you know, and it was just people, I just shovel snow on the other side on the bigger houses and that's where I grow the wash and all those guys. So we were, I was, I was in the mix of hard, you know, I've been at the barbershop Teddy Pinnigrass. We riding down the street with a fur on and a rose Royce with the top down and the winter. Cause you have to wait, wait, wait, wait, top down in the winter and the winter. As you have to, you're going to see me with a fur on. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to stay warm now. Yeah. He's going to stay warm. Yeah. Because, you know, all of the ice for nose, the jury store owners and all those guys, they lived in my neighborhood. So it was, it was a lot of energy that came our way. So I would, you know, it's just, I didn't know that I was going to be in the music business. My uncle played for McFadden and Whitehead. So he was a guitar player on Ain't No Stoppers. Now he played the Delphine X and all that stuff. I used to go to rehearsals with him. But I didn't look at it as I'm going to be in the business. It kind of ended up that way later. I veered off in different paths until music, you know, found me or I found it. Right. You know, yeah, man. Was, was music a life saver for you? It was one main for center life saver. Yeah. Yeah. It was one main for center life saver. That's why I don't treat it like it's, you know, this so-called side piece or anything. You know, if I don't feel like I can do it at its best level, I just don't do it. You know what I mean? I don't chop a bunch of townlabs. I don't wrap a bunch of people. If it's not special, I can sit on the sideline and do something else. Yeah. Something special coming along. I'll do it. Right. But I'm not just doing anything just a hustle cash. Gratitude. Gratitude. I mean, that speaks more to love than anything. Love the game. But what, how do you even, after you hit these veers, if you speak of it? How do we not go into it? We're not going to speak of it. How do you ultimately make that take that first step into what is called the music business? It is funny. I was like going in and out of studios, like just somehow for some reason. And I ended up meeting Kenny Gamble. And I would go to the spot a lot and just sit in the corner what they were like remaking their masters. So they would bring new vocalists and new musicians and stuff like that. And they were remaking their masters. And then one day he's just like, you know, if I'm your keyboard player, I was like, I'm in. What you just told you to find him a keyboard player? Find a keyboard player. So it was a kid named Maurice Wilcher that, what that was like incredible, that we bought him to the session. And then he started playing on all of those projects and stuff like that. And then, you know, over time, we just stopped moving him around as a producer. And that's when we ended up working with Freddie Jackson and a bunch of other folks. And then we ended up meeting Sylvia Roan. Sylvia, and I just touched the Jail of Bert and Jail was recording him fully. All his albums, the Rule Boy albums. I was there when they didn't written all over your face, all of that stuff. We were there. All the Jail of albums. And then, you know, Jail was like, oh man, one day we just sent a studio and he's like, oh man, why don't you get in the booth and sing this background? I'm like, what? I'm like, no, we're not doing that, bro. He's like, come on, man. Just come on. We just need a note. So I ended up going and doing a note. And ironically, he was like, man, I think we can make you an artist. I said, nah, we not doing that. You know, and then over time, when we really got to know each other, he was like, you know what, man, there's a lot of people in this business that, you know, they need people that know how to collect money. You know, and he was like, I think you could do a good job managing, casting, helping collect money. So then he introduced us to Frank McCone. And Frank McCone was the keyboard player for them and the rule boys. And then we start managing Frank. And you know, moved in the Philly, started getting his packets together, had him planned with on Kenny Gamble and stuff as well. And it's just like, progressing the stuff. And we're going to DC a lot. My brother, nah, we met Teddy Rolly down there. And I think that's when it really sparked that this could be it because Teddy was our age. You know what I'm saying? So it's a difference when you're in there with OG, but then you're in there, you know, you see somebody as your peer and they got the same stuff. You're like, man, what's going on? I just got to get this car. Yeah. You know, and then Teddy started telling us, you know, it's production and he would invite us to, you know, the studio and stuff like that. And I was like, I, this is it. Yeah. You know, then after the Maheri stuff, I end up getting a gig at Atlantic because we were shopping his music really heavy. And I was flying to Atlanta to the face and stuff like that and met Brian and L.A. Reed. And then Brian ended up getting a president's job at Atlantic. So he in turn called me and it's like, oh man, why don't you come over and do an R. So I kind of didn't know what the gig was for real. What years this was? This was 93. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hey, Dave. Yeah. Yeah. Very early. Big budgets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there I ended up A&R and intro's album. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not the first one. This is the second one. Eddie after the first one. But I met Eddie during those days. Yeah, man. And Moni loved A&R her project. I was A&R and the Braxton Sisters as well. Thanks. This is when they were a group. You know, it was a three sisters minus Tony. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, man. And then it was time to shop Marisa's artist deal Atlantic. I mean, didn't want to do it because they were so focused on Atlanta. And his public his publisher at the time was Jocelyn Cooper. And Jocelyn was the publisher of the San Diego Angie Stone. Raphael said, Deek like a bunch of cats and she was his publisher also. We did the deal with her fam. And she was like, look man, I asked the guy. I feel let you shop it somewhere. So I asked him. He was like, yeah, go ahead. So one thing leads to another. I call her back. She was like, I was like, look, he said cool. Just like I call you back. I'm like, all right. She called me back. Maybe three or four days later. She got Jimmy Irving on the phone. He's like, look, I want to do this project. I want to give you guys a million dollars. I want to give you some extra cash so you can finish the project because I don't know. I could make this project the way it's sounding and so on and so forth. And he was like, give me your lawyers information. I want to fly you the artists in the layout. So he flew us out. Well, actually before that, I had the call he artists let him know what the deal was. He interned then they flew us out. Once they flew us out, Jimmy, the guy's like, look man, take my security. He hand them an envelope with some cash in it. He's like, go take a ride and we'll call you. We'll call the security, bring you back when we're done to deal. So we actually negotiated the deal in the conference room. It was myself, a lawyer named Brad Rubin, David Cohen, that was the lawyer for Jimmy and Jimmy. We negotiated the deal in the conference room. Called the kid back to the to the to the inner scope, signed off on the deal. They gave us our check and we went home. Jimmy cut another check for recording studio to make sure the kid had equipment. Then the end of the Dustas the dry. And he was like, look, and then Dre really liked them. They started getting in the studio together. And Jimmy at that time, he was like, look, I think this is going to be dynamite this relationship with me. Dre. So I'm so forth. He was like, look, I want to bring Mick Jagger for Dre and Maris to do. I was like, what is going on? Yeah. I'm like, what's going on in here? You know, because the kid was like extremely prolific. You know what I mean? He's probably one of the best musicians I've ever met. But he was also a producer. They knew how to calm down in the studio and like get the record done too. So you know, long behold, I think it just got too heavy for him. You know, people back home that wanted to be a part of his life, his career was getting in his head acting like people were going to steal from him and it's that and the other. You got to watch those LA people and they're going to record companies going to steal from you. And the kid just kind of kind of lost it a little bit. So we ended up pulling that down. And then we ended up managing this other group named brother and brother was signed the Vincent Herbert. Yeah, you know, I know the guy. He was signed the Vincent Herbert. They were signed the Vincent Herbert and it was a kid in that group named Butter. And Butter was the producer for the group. And he was actually really doing good music for the group. So I had to meet one so he'd like, look, we should get this kid some equipment. So he could actually do most of the music from the house and save money. So she gave us a budget. We took an emerald into a music store, got them all's equipment, signed it up, took it to his crib in his room. He lived in the hood. He had a full studio in his bedroom in the hood. And it's probably was like the most expensive thing that was in the crib. Yeah. And Butter ultimately ended up doing some records without being sure. But then he also ended up doing you remind me for us. Yeah. Yeah. So each what's happening is more so than you are, you're even knowing these people from anywhere else, you're meeting them through each situation. Each client is leading because because what's happening in Philly was that it wasn't a lot of people at that time doing anything. So anybody that was that was remotely making checks happen, the people that wanted to get in, they find you somehow. So he's not that big. Right. You know what I mean? So they find you. You know, and during that time when we were working with Butter, I'd lawyer and deduced this to Rodney Jerkins. Rodney was probably about maybe 14, 15 years old. It's a monster. Yeah. And we would go back and forth to pick Rodney up and take him to New York, shopped in music. And we had him doing records on brother as well. And that was Rodney got his first check in the business from working with brother. And you know, we were going to manage him. You know, the parents were letting us take him back and forth. And his father was like, yeah, we're you know, as far as the pastor says, he's like, I don't know if I need to be involved in cyclic music. It's that and the other and right after the check came, pop chains his mind. He was like, you know, I got to look after my son. And I can respect it. You got a kid, it's 15, 16 years old. And he's getting corporate money. And he's type of checks, especially the checks that were moving then. It's like I would have came and got my son to, you know what I mean? So we didn't have any hard feelings. And Rodney's still like a little brother of the day. But you know his story now is just, you know, the mean, you know, all the family now. You know the mean. Did you, did you, did you feel like you saw that then? One million percent. Because this kid, man, Rodney is a kid, bro. I don't know when we were going to visit him, man, he might make 10 tracks in an hour. Wow. It was just running off. Yeah, running off. Yeah. But real compositions though. Now like just 10 beats. No, no, no. Real. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because now somebody would be like, oh, yeah. I did team. But, but the, but the other part of it is also is what you have to consider with Rodney is that he had a sound. Yeah. Yeah. And 15. Yeah. The sound. 100%. You know what I'm saying? Like, most kids are copying people. Right. Right. Right. It ought to be a, quite a big good question for him. How did he get that? Like what made him do that? Bro, it was passion. Man, Rodney would never, like he had a setup in the basement. And Rodney wouldn't even come up stairs. Like they put his food downstairs to him. Everything. He just was cranking, bro. It's just unbelievable. It's like seeing the passion of like a basketball player in middle school. Everybody invested in him. Yeah. And, and he invested. Yeah. Like you got to show up every day. Right. So he was there every day on it, bro. Like it was nothing else to do in life. And going to behold, look at the results. Rodney might have had his 10,000 hours in by the time he was 16. Right. That's right. You know, work ethic was about the roof. And it just comes out with visiting while he was working on other stuff, man. And Rodney might have three different studios running at the same time with three different artists. Crankin hips. Absolutely. Crankin. I've been in one of those rehearsals. Yeah. Not like I'm just busy. Yeah. Yeah. And just collected money. No, I'm busy and I'm making hits. There's a different ballgame this kid. I've never seen nothing like Rodney in my life. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, Teddy was, Teddy was a monster watching Teddy. His own sound. Yeah. Watching Teddy in his day was, was incredible to watch, but also watching like people literally pull up down with a genuine beach man and sitting in the hotel rooms, the wafer that slot. It's crazy. I remember we went to Jack the rapper. I think it was in Atlanta. And he was being managed by Gene Griffin at the time. And Teddy was so hot that you know how you had a valley area and at the hotel. Gene had his range rover pulled up at the valley area and all the managers and A&Rs were down the sidewalk waiting to sit in the passenger seat to take a meat to get their artists in the studio with Teddy. He's taking meat from the valley from a range rover. Unbelievable. Teddy, Teddy, I've never, Teddy was like the first super producer. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Was it the first super producer? One million percent. It was the first super producer that they had him on records leading his voice and he had a presence inside of it, but also he just shocked the business because his sound took over so much that it transformed what other producers were doing. It's a lot of people did new Jack. I can't, you know, the first producer standpoint like it was it wouldn't be and I'm just you know, it wouldn't be face or Jimmy Jimmy and Terry. It was all in the same time. No, it was there was earlier. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I remember Teddy been rocking bro since his show. Yeah. 15. You know what I'm saying? So but his breakout in terms of like that producer. What do you feel like that was? But it will be guy. It will be guy heavy all of that stuff. But look man. I'm trying to, I want to give it to you. I'm just, I'm just, yeah, because you got to remember like, you know, face face was LA and face at that time. Right. It wasn't just face. And it was Jimmy and Terry. Right. This was Teddy Riley and not Teddy and most of this stuff before that was Duos. Gamble Huff was Duos. This guy, this guy, first super producer. I didn't say super duos. Sir's. Listen, but I'm bad as my fuck is ever. So. Yeah, it's just that that goes without question. Yeah. And his work I think was crazy. But it's like, well, when I'm here and baby faces backgrounds, but I'm also hearing what you're saying in terms of like, like, I think baby face was he was the work. But he wasn't necessarily trying to put himself out there. He wasn't the show. He was also, but also like, we talk about cultural impact. So we talking the rhinestone jackets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just the presence and the culture. Yeah. Teddy sat different with faces. A little older. You know what I mean? And in three groups. Yeah. At one time. Guy Black Street and Rex in effect. Exactly. And I might be forgetting why. Anybody been in another group too. Yeah. And not to mention. I mean, I think Black Street did diamond. Out the gate. Did they? Yeah. Yeah. Black Street did a lot of numbers. Yeah. I'm thinking I remember when the album first came out. I was exactly where I was. Yeah. I mean, but he also. He also had to write executives like Jimmy pushed the button. He wasn't scared to like, if he believed in he wasn't scared. I mean, how many people do you see what have taken like, draped that commercial? A lot of the labels were the left, like, no, disrespect. They the left, like, we rock him and other things where it is like, okay, there's some street music. It's that the other, but no. It's regional. It's just. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Drase, Snoop, all that stuff went super commercial. Yeah. So it's this, you know, different era, different executives too. Mm-hmm. You know, not scared, but also, they understood what they was listening to. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure if everybody knows what they're listening to today to we get through the weeds, but I don't think they also had the distraction of streaming either. You know, it's a lot of distractions. Yeah. I mean, you know, streaming let the amateurs in the pro business. It's so many ways to monetize to where, you know, it's created so many great areas. Yeah. But it's the noise. I think the noise of streaming and social as the executives not understanding how to just rely on your taste. Right. Everything's a number now. And then also, like, you looked at the labels back in the day, they were known for things. Now it's like a harsh part of stuff that just kind of triggers off of TikTok or this, that, and it was like, yeah, what's your thing? Yeah. Yeah. You know, because if you establish your thing, then the hotness of those things will come your way. You'll 100% quadruple and heat in those sectors. That's why Motown was so great. Right. So, Motown was so great. You know, that jam was so great. So, and so forth. Yeah. It wasn't, they were brands, bro, and they had, it was very specific in what they drove. They were either it's very specific in R&B, very specific in rap, certain type of rap. This, that, and the other no different how blue note was with jazz. Right. Yeah. Death row, no one, death row. Right. No one's looking at the environment the same way. Look it up to Andrew. They were all lifestyle artists, whether it was rap or R&B. They all had this performance flair to them. Yeah. Heavy D, five MC, yeah. So it was a flair, but also a mix of R&B with all of them. You know what I mean? So, you know, now I feel like it's got to get back to how do we take and that was that's my question in your opinion. How do we get back to taste? I think the people at no taste should come together and support at the highest level, the artists that they believe in. Right. So if you have an artist or you have an artist, I think it's my duty to get you records and it should have nothing to do with money. It should have to something to do with what's going to represent us, what's going to represent our quality, what's going to represent our taste, our lifestyle, or what are we backing? Right. TDE. TDE is doing a great, but a TDE is on that same brand thesis as the other towns and the death rows. They all look like they would hang out together. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's why I fit so well. You look at the features, stuff like that. It's no, it doesn't feel like it's forced. We've got to bring back the Motown picnic. Got to bring it all back. Right. Got to bring it all back. It's all so. It's just like, yeah, but also it's like people got to start telling the truth. Like, if it ain't harder than you're high. I think that'll help the kids more if they feel like they got to go back to the drawing board. You know, no bridges and R&B songs. That's the climax. Well, what are we talking about? Like, as a part of the story, you reach your peak in the bridge. So where do these bridges? You know, yeah, I think because most artists were trying to figure out the algorithm. Right. And they were trying to figure out like, oh, if this song is only a minute and a half, two minutes, that's actually two streams. But the algorithm is feel. Right. Leon Thomas will prove that. Yes, sir. You know, I remember I was at Motown, man. We knew, I knew Leon from Reppin Dramby, now he was signed to Sony or Columbia. And exactly the name Maria Egan had signed when she brought on the Philly first to meet. I wasn't necessarily in the green side of the direction, but he was an extremely talented kid. So when I ended up at Motown, Fuzzy took me to Leon and reconnected us. And at the time, he wasn't in a great deal. So I helped put his management team together that could help him get out of that deal. Because I thought Leon would be grateful. I said Motown, but it needed a little bit of mechanics to happen to get him out of a bad situation to get him for us to get him. And ultimately, I mean, look at him now. But it's like sticking behind it. I don't manage Leon. I don't make a dime off of Leon. No, nothing. But he's talented. Right. You are a service. You have to be like, what are we in this business without service? Like, I came up in this, and it was about service. Like if people felt like you had it, they put you on. They introduced you to stuff. They'd be like, ah, you're good. I play it cool. Let me introduce you to this guy. That's sure. You know, a lot of kids are called that hate now. Mm hmm. Yeah. That's a problem. But that developed weakness too. Right? Like, the had that word just flail across things because you don't like rebuttal. Mm hmm. There's a problem. Yeah. Right. And it makes the environment weak. So I don't, I don't believe in that word hate. And I think it destroyed a lot of things. You know, it took, it took the honesty away from the business and the music and critiquing you to be great. There's a lot of artists out here could be better. Right. But because the bar is so low, nobody is like critiquing them in a manner that they say, let me get back home and tighten this up. They're not going to tell me that. I'm saying what happened to that part? I think the big part for you and something I've always noticed in my years of knowing you is that you can explain your opinion. Everyone can. I mean, but sometimes I won't even take the time too. Right? They'll use their tenure as, as they'll weaponize their tenure. There it is. But, but, but I'm also, I'm not trying to be hierarchy over no youngster. Mm hmm. So I'm not going to, I'm going to think before I speak so they can actually retain the information. I'm not trying to bully you into my way. Yeah. And I'm not giving you information that is going to service me. It's not servicing me. Most of the information I give away. I had nothing to do with coming back to me. Yeah. It's like, how can you be great? And you got it or you don't. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a thing. I was an example of that. You know, man, it's in them. There was some trials to like, get them here. They were very talented. We cannot take that away. But there was trials of things that really put them at a place of competitive market. Because when they were, they were working to touch the jazz, everything was homegrown. So the competition was within, but it wasn't with the world. Once you leave a production house that assigning artists, now your competition is with the world. So now you compete in the kids' template for real. This person, that person, before you're competing against in-house producers. So coming out of that when I started managing them was when we signed Glenn. We actually, we signed Glenn Lewis, bought him to Philly to write, not to, he wasn't, he wasn't brought to Philly to be artists. He was built to Philly to introduce him to Philly. Because we knew Philly would give him the music that he needed. Right. So when we got him there, he wrote, don't you forget it was the first record that he wrote. That record was supposed to be for Stevie. The same, that same week or during that same time, they also did butterflies. But I wasn't rapping them at this time. They were just my youngsters. Dran Vida. Yeah, I wasn't rapping them at the time. Then they ended up departing, touchy jazz. And they called me and they said, look, you know, we want you to represent us. They said, what was really Vidao? And then I went up to the house and spoke to Vida. He's like, I really need you to talk to Dre. And at the time, it was this place called Valley Green. I would get up and I would jog this park every day. And I just like, look Dre, we're going jog tomorrow. We're going to talk to wind jogged and talk to excited Philly mouth and see what he wanted. And I'm like, man, I'm not going to manage these guys separate because they live in the same house. I'm like, does it make sense to, they're not doing it at this time. But they just both bet, but they're best friends. Okay. You know, they, their uncles played in church, they played in church. They both were drummers, you know, two different types of drummers. So I knew them well. But I didn't look to represent them ever. But I always gave him advice when Vidao first got his equipment in the crib. He went over like, I got a studio. But I thought, you know, he got a keyboard and he got a microphone hanging from one of the water pipes. You know, you know, I was saying, but he was young. That was a studio. It was a studio. And he was getting it done. And you know, I would go over it and like give him a game or how to lay her drums and all of that kind of stuff. And, you know, one thing leads to another they ended up departing, touching jazz. And I was like, so we start managing my brother and I start managing them. And I was like, you know what? They came together. They came separately, but it's best friends. But I couldn't see managing them separate. I was like, from a marketing standpoint, it will make more sense for y'all to be this generation of gambling. So we put them together. Turned around, gave them glens album as the photo proof of concept. Yeah. Yeah. And after that, you know, that success, blend in and critically acclaim. And then between having glens record out and the butterflies record out. You can expound on butterflies if you could put the people for the people. Yeah, because you just send butterflies like it's just some random ass record. I'm not. Yeah. But you can't. I'm actually not. It's not a random record. It's a might be Jackson. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because right now we in the mic rejection room. Yeah. I know. And but what I do have to admit is that I actually had nothing to do with the record. Okay. That was a that was that was butterflies like four times. Yeah. But that was that was that was like opportunity that Jazzy Jeff put together for them with John McLean. Okay. Okay. Right. They had John had signed flowetry and that relationship started through there and John and Mike worked together. And so he was like, yo, I need a record for Mike. They played the record over the phone from what I understand. And he was like, Mike's cutting that record. And they was like, yeah, okay. Right. Right. And he kind of said it as a matter of fact from what I understand. And then, you know, kind of fast forward and we're in Toronto cutting glens album. And I get a phone call from John McLean's office. And he was like, I got to put John on the phone, which is like, yo, we need to finish this mic stuff, man, I hear the guys are with you now and so on and so forth. A lot of times like when do you need a dime? He's like, this weekend. Now we're in Toronto cutting glens album. But I'm just like, this is too big for y'all. We got to y'all got to leave and go cut this record. Yeah. So I stayed in Toronto. And we're Glenn and I sent them the LA to get the record done. They stayed. They came here for three or four days and they came back to Toronto with the record done. And um, you're right. It's this history and that those two songs kind of drove everything to come in the door because you got these two examples. You got a superstar with a crack in record and you got a brand new nobody with a crack in record. That makes the business be like, man, who are these guys? Yeah. You know, right? Of course. So then we get a phone call from Justin Timberlake. This is first solo album. And he's like, I want to work with the guys. I want them to do the album. This that and the other was there was he had another guy called enough. I forgot the N. R's name, but he had hired an R. He had his own like team. And um, Johnny Wright was in the picture as well. And we they sent them to Philly. We start recording them. The guys are doing some really incredible records, but they weren't in the direction that Justin was. They were kind of just breaking the mold from like the neo soul stuff. And Justin was like coming out of boy band. Back tempo. This that and the other. So you know, we're in there. They work in cutting records for Rouse callin. He called the first time sitting next to Justin on the couch and I could hear the call for us playing a music on the phone. That is all tempo. I'm telling the guys that you got pick it up. I said, he's coming. It's coming. But it's like, but it's like, no way you are, right? And mind you, this is the first swing into the public air. Right? Now you, you out of this small camp, and now you out in the public air and it's fist being swung everywhere. Right? Because these are top projects. So long behold, second time for real called man, first time, he's like, yeah, I just got a phone call from for real. Maybe three, four days later, he calls again. He's like, yeah, I just got to phone with my boy for real. And I was like, did you hear that? He's like, what? I say, he went for for real to my boy for real. I said, he got him. I said, he got him. I said, y'all got stepping up. He got him. And you know, at this time, I'm not exactly sure if they understood what it meant. But I think every artist, every producer, every writer has a project, you know, even athletes, right? They have a moment that you miss. That makes you never want that feeling again. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So fast forward, we end up going to Justin's album release party. And I'm standing near the bar and Justin comes out. The guys are already deep in the party. He comes out and he sees me. He's like, yo, what's up? He's like, where's the guys? I'm like, over there. And he had this concern looking at his face. And I was like, what's up? He's like, oh, man, didn't he buy a tell you? I'm like, what? He's like, they didn't make the American album, but they don't end the natural. I was like, cool. He going to stay here. I mean, yeah, we ain't leaving. So he went and talked to the guys and then they came to me and we talked. I said, yo, bro, we want to take it on a channel. We're going to stay here. We're going to party with everybody else. And we're going to look this in the high. Yeah. And fast forward. Next project is usher. I see him. And miss them. So I'm like, so I get a phone call letting us know that usher's working because that's when they was passing those sheets around. I'm like, this is if we miss Justin, we ain't missing this one. So they were writing songs in the in the apartment. They ended up getting superstar done with Ryan. I'm like, we got one. So I end up going to New York, assing me is with Clive. And then leaving there and Clive was like, oh, she's working. I didn't play him the record. So I called ironically, I called Mark Pizz first. He didn't pick up. I called Darryl Jones. He picked up. And I was like, yo, I got a record farsher. And Darryl was like, yo, you can't just in time. I'm like, why? He was like, LH just put me on the project. He was like, but I don't know his security guard. I don't know his homies. I don't know nobody in this. I don't know how to, I'm trying to figure out how to get in there like that. Right. So I'm like, look, I'm walking over. So get there. I turned the record on. Soon as the record came on the first few bars. He's like, oh, my God. He turned to us. Like, can I get a copy? I said, absolutely not. I said, we don't do copies. You know that. I said, but if you tell LH that I'm here and we got a smash for Usher, I'll stay and I'll wait. So he was like, hold on. He went to LH's office. He's like, man, he's going to take him 40 minutes. I'm like, I'm being here for that. When played in the record, same thing happened. He called Usher. He's like, yo, you got to get in the studio with Tranfield Dow and I was just like, who's that? You know, and he was like the guys that did Jill and this that and the other Usher's like, they go, you think they could do me? He didn't, he didn't know I could hear it. He didn't know nobody was there. And LH was adamant. He's like, now you're going to see you got cut this record. So we ended up going down there and we packed up Ryan and we packed up Poo Bear, which we met from a previous session with with Ironically with Puff because we went to Miami and worked on all Puffs groups, no addition and call and all the recorded all his groups. And while we were down there, you know, Poo Bear had this thing. And it's like, you know, my responsibility was to make sure that we had the writers that could compete with what was happening. So I had to understand my guys talent and where they could go and how whatever writers I bring into their environment can help elevate it and make something like who can reach what they can do. But also who can push them like once you start that first song, who can push them even further because the beauty of Dr. Amvitao is that they were both two different style drummers. So the magic was whoever started to track, it made be a different outcome. So Dre started superstar and Vitao started caught up. Vitao is a pounder and Dre's got that bounce. Right. So yeah, my thing leads to another we in there putting pressure. Yeah. Because at this time, they didn't have a direction for us. So we just keep going down and keep going down there. And I remember listening to the interview, you guys and Ryan, he was right. I actually didn't like the record. But I think I should was influenced because we the new cats. Right. So I should was influenced by other people because we were applying pressure to like, you know, I don't know of those records. It's that in the other but LA knew Jamie Lewis heard those records. He was like, yo, we never heard this boy singing like this. We were pushing because I told the guys, I'm like, look, this guy's going in to be 25 years old. There's going to be a thought women. Look at him. He got the same. So we didn't really give him rap, he melodic records. We gave him real singing. Yeah. You got to sing records. Like you look at his performance on, caught up stuff like that. It's insane. Yeah. It's insane. You know. So that was that. And then we ended up doing Anthony Hamilton and all of the kids from the American Idol, the Black kids, the Rooking Studies and the Fantasians and all of them. Then we did Overseas Era. She was, we got a phone call from Ethiopia and Fulana. Fulana was manager. And so it's like, look, Sierra is going to be in Philly, record our Kelly record. But our Kelly is going through his problems. So Carvin from Touch the Jazz with Coach in the vocals. So he wants to go over, listening to what they were doing so we could get an idea. And they would talk about, you know, Crunk and B. And that record wasn't Crunk and B. The our Kelly record wasn't what they claim it was. It was good. But it wasn't Crunk and B. It was our Kelly R&B record. So you know, we listened to it. We go back to the studio, but we only had a day to get a record done. And ironically, what people don't realize with Dr. Amvidao is that the only record that they, that they only records that they had done in advance of the entire run was butterflies and superstar. Every other record was done in front of the artist on the spot. You know, because the whole objective is you get to know the artist. Yeah. And then you tell them make that soup. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so we grabbed belay with Muhammad. And we grabbed this kid named Sugar Tung Slim. He was a rapper from Atlanta. But he lived in Philly. He was a rapper in the poet because belay would could give the melody, but somebody had to talk Atlanta. You know, I'm so somebody had to have those references. So I put them two together to write that record. And then we shot this record down there. Ethiopia got the record. And she got Luda. And then Luda, Luda jumped in the record same day. And we was like, we got a cooker. You know, we had a cook. So then then he comes to Chris Brown project. So Tina Davis was on his first. It was in transition. She ended up doing a deal over a job. Mark called us and then spoke to Tina again after that. And he's like, look, if if we can develop him a settle, but give him to us a couple of days early. So we can really see who the kid was. So when we got we got a man, I told you are having a man like taking him to the mall, taking the basketball or taking him anywhere where you think young people are. So we can figure out who he is. That's like a young man, hello, hello G. And I'm saying he a cool little what cat's thinking. Yeah. And I'm saying how are these girls this that and the other he could run by this like You ain't running it down so I'm okay cool. So I call Chris Hicks. I say I need John Taylor here tomorrow. We got John Taylor and popping, excuse me, Miss got done the same day. Here. Pop it and excuse me, Miss. Yeah, we get John Taylor the directional orders, like this is who this kid is, and he kinda hiding down, and then he heard the music, John Taylor got in that booth and got busy. And then after that, I was like, yo, Mark, send him to Scott. Scott don't know what to do from here and then Scott ended up doing running in another record, Hushon. Yeah. But again, unselfish. Yeah. You know, because you had already been in business with Storch. Well, I knew roots, right? Well, I knew Storch through the roots. I helped get the roots there first deal. Mm-hmm. So I knew Storch through that. And ironically, the first kid, Marri Swilcher, was in the A-Rome in Sigma Sound Studio, and Scott was in like an office room with his equipment. So I knew Scott. So when Scott was making his money from the roots, he bought his first car from my father. So I knew Scott. You know what I'm saying? So I knew Scott very well. So how Scott ended up with Dre is that, when I'm managing Eve during the Dre period, he called her known for the roots, because she was on the You Got Me record for the roots. So one thing leads to another, she's like, yeah, what's Scott called him? Wanted to see if we could, you know, if I could let, you know, introduce him to Dre, but I don't know him, that's your friend. Like that. I was like, now, teching with you to his studio. He is from Felly, right? And he was bad. So I was like, let's see what happens. So she took him in the rest of his history. And even that, I never asked God to manage him. Derek Jackson ended up managing him. Derek was the one of the people we took the roots to, because Derek worked for Russell with Franz Barrow. They ran management company. So, you know, when we were working on stuff with Russell with Maurice, the first guy, Maurice was the torch lighter, you know, and when we were working with them with Maurice, there's like, what else is down in Felly, which I'm working on? Cause we was blowing out, DFGM, R&B, still they were trying to get an R&B, we were blowing it out the door. And, you know, next thing leads to, they come to Felly, Derek comes to Felly, ends up late. Now, we're running across a park to see the roots while they're performing in a park. And then after that, we went to them to the radio station. And we kicked it with them a little bit. And then the meet and came for them to go to New York and me, that Russell's office. And then that's how the Wendy Goldstein's ended up in there. But, you know, the story is often told without the inclusion of that part. Cause I never claimed it. I never got a check from it. I never pushed any, we had the same lawyer, Rich, that was the Roots manager, ended up being a good friend, you know, may rest in peace. So it's just like you doing stuff for the environment. Because while Scott is up in one room, the Roots, Marisa's in the big room, Scott's in another room. The Roots are downstairs in the room about the half size of this room, maybe a quarter size of this room. This guy, David Ivey's room. And all of them are lined up down the hallway because you could only get one or two people in the room at a time. So you got cats with bagpipes and horns and all sorts of stuff. Real talk. It was a cat that played backpipes. No, I'm serious, it's a heart attack. They had a guy that played a backpipe. I don't know what he played on or if he played on anything or if they kept it, but it was definitely a guy that played a backpipe. That was in case. That was down there as well. And, you know, they was in this tiny room, make it magic. And Longby Hold. Yeah. Roots. Roots. The legendary. Yeah. The legendary Roots crew. The legendary Roots crew. Yeah, Lee. Which ironically thought, partially grew up in my neighborhood up in my area because I was seeing him in the playground. And we were like teenagers. You know what I mean? I was seeing him in the playground sometimes. Then later on, you know, he was the guy. Yeah, the guy with the rap. How was it so Philly? Was there ever like this rivalry in a sense musically with Philly and Detroit? Because the Motown Sound, obviously. Yeah. The Soul of Philly and the thing. And like just you think of all of the great artists, producers, writers. Was there like a thing with Philly and Detroit? No, there was. Well, talking to Kenny Gamble, it was a respect thing because you got to realize, man, like Barry Gordy was the Godfather of infrastructure for all of them. So they respected it. But they were the ones that got the run after Gordy's run start coming down. Philly and the National got their run. So they were the first cats to do an album on the Jackson's post Motown. You know what I mean? If you look, there's an album on CBS Philly and the National that had enjoyed yourself and all that. That's a Philly and the National record. Gotcha. So if you listen to that record, right, that record lent to what Quincy ended up doing on Mike with a little less soul. But if you listen to it, that album was the blue print. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying I'm hearing the records in my hair right now. Yeah. Yeah, that album was the blue print, man. So, and you look at their run, the theme song for Soul Train and so on and so forth, the greatest love of all. Like, yeah, master hits, bro. But the difference between Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff and Barry was Barry was about his songs and anybody could do them. Where Gamble and Huff was about, this is your record. We are going to tell them make your suit. So if you listen to Teddy, he's a player all throughout the album. Yeah. Blue Rawls couldn't do Teddy's records. So this hymn couldn't do parallel bells records. The OJs couldn't do the Delphine's records and so on and so forth. There was all individual craftsmanship that happened around each one of these artists because they like, we want to put who you are to the world. You know what I mean? So, beautiful times, bro. Yeah. Beautiful times, hands and a lot. You know? I mean, look, Usher alone, man. I think I have placed two album titles with Usher. With Here I Stand, that rail from Rockefeller Road. I remember we were in New York in the studio. I think it was either Hifactor or Sony. I call it where I was like, yo, come to the studio. He comes to the studio with a backpack on. He walks in, the track is playing. He's like, mic me up. So he goes into the booth, backpacks, they're alone, bro. And he freestyles. Here I stand. No, shit. When he started laying out the melody, bro, we in there, I was like, this guy just fucking out there. I'm like, whoo. It came out. We drained it out, and now we just look at each other like this. Just joking, just killed this record. You know, he cleaned it up. Eventually, like, it was some cleanup that happened, but the base of that record, bro. He freestyled that record. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. And then, I gave Usher ruin on the last album by a kid, Phil's that I was doing his album. That was like my step into African music. So I did two T-Witch's Average albums, two T-Witch's Average albums and a Phil's project. So during the time, Phil's also one of the top producers in Nigeria. So, you know, I had, I mean, Usher was doing low citizens. And he was telling me about what they were doing. And I was like, you can't go to Africa with that plan. I'm like, you go there, like, you got to get entrenched in the culture. Like, you can't go and go to the schools that aren't making it or go in poverty. And it's like, you got to go to the culture. So I had to make us some phone calls to make sure that there was room set up for him to meet all the creators of Africa. And then also, I put the artists on the stage that he should have on the stage. It was T-Witch's Average. It was Oxlade and it was Phil's. Oxlade and Phil's is two new artists. And T-Witch's Average at that time, she was like the young queen of Africa, especially Nigeria. And the guys have been overused. The burners have been used. The cats come in. They want to get burned and they want to get wet. They want to get David. But nobody calls for T-Witch. You know what I mean? So, put T-Witch on the stage as well. And ironically, man, I was home sick while I was doing it. I was in bed sick making the phone calls to get him set up. So by the time he finished that global citizens, he was like, look, man, you got a footprint. You got to get a record. Yeah. It makes sense now for you to do an African record. So we gave him room and that record, like if you've seen the data on that record and where the pickup is because Africa gets Europe first. Like outside of, before they get America, they get Europe. So you get in Germany, you get in France, you get in this and that and the other, London. And the data was like crazy on the other side of the world. And I remember as a producer called me, he was like, I have four beats, play it out. I'm like, you don't have no idea what you're talking about. I said, but this records a smash. You know what I mean? And it helped. Yeah. It helped tremendously. If you saw the streams and then the territories, those other records from America wasn't in those territories. The way this record was. Right. You know, I mean, it's a strategy. Right? It's like, you know, every record that was given to him from us, it was a strategy for growth. It wasn't about changing them. It was about what wasn't there. You know, if you look at all the records that he did with your main, what wasn't there was the records that Dr. Amby Dowded. If you look after that, what wasn't there was the records that filled it because did that record and did the record with Berner, the record that Berner boys on as well. And I co-wrote that record with Phil's. So yeah, man. So I know, you know, I know the R&B site, right? But you know, you know me. I love a lot of streets. You love the streets? So I can't let you be here and not talk about. There was a moment where you literally had Eve at Roughrider. I even roughrider. And Vinnie Segal. Vinnie Segal at Rockefeller. And Phil's most one at Atlantic. Oh, and oh, yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I company was called Black Friday. How were you managing that? Well, it's funny, man. I remember we were, before I got Eve off a dress label, which that was mutual, it wasn't really off, which I'll tell you that story. We were going in the studio. We met Roughrider's producers. They increased the stuff through Mike Lin who was at the time of President for Dre. Yeah. Yeah. So we're getting records from them, but I don't know them. Right? So there's no one day we in the studio, man. And DMX comes in the studio. I get there. He's there already with her in the studio. We, Vinnie, right? So I get a phone call from the front desk clerk. Ironically, the front desk clerk is Jessica Rivera. Oh, shit. That soundtracks dude. Yeah. The homies. Roughrider's downstairs. Roughrider's wants to talk to you. So I come in the lobby. Nobody's there. See, let me know. They downstairs. So I'm like, cool. I go downstairs like 20 guys downstairs. And then you got artists in the studio. So it's a little heat. Right? You got our artists. You got our artists in the studio, which I didn't know dude. He's chasing me. I didn't put him in the studio. He was there when I got there. And I said, yo, man, this guy was in there before we got there. I said, but if you want to come up and hear what he's doing, come on up. But only tool y'all come up. Okay, take off. We're not taking everybody. So you know, they wasn't comfortable. They wasn't happy and you could feel the tension. Yeah. Like they wanted to jump on me. And I'm out there. I'm like, man, I'm sitting here with these cats. And they looking at me like I'm on food. And Deach has happened to say where you from. And I said, I'm from Philly. He got on the phone. He caused somebody from Philly because long behold, they also, a part of their life, they lived in Philly, ironically two neighborhoods over from me. So they called one of my homies up that they grew up on the block with. And I'm looking at the tone change on the phone. And he's like, yo, hold on. And he hands me the phone. It's my man Bernie. He's like, yo, man, he's like a toaster. She was a solid dude, man. And it's that. The other part of the part of the die. Hey, my boys, man, we grew up together like that. So phone call ends. I handle back the phone. I take DNY upstairs. We get cool after that. So you know, Jace trying to like get this aftermath thing together, but at the same time he's like running out of money a little bit. So Drainedine ended up having the conversation. He said, call Jimmy. So I ended up calling Jimmy. Jimmy's like, look, let's give you a deal. And you could put it on your company. And I was like, nah, I don't have the guys to like do this. Like, you know what I mean? At that time, you needed male rappers around. It's like, why don't you just let's put it on rough riders. He's like, I can't tell them what to do. I just did to a deal. I can't let him come in the door. I mean, just tell them what to do. So I said, I have a relationship. What do you say? Well, you get them to do it. We'll figure it out. So I called the other guy. He was like, yo, you want to eat? He's like, man, stop playing. So I play him. No, it's just serious. You got to answer this question right now, because I got to get Jimmy back on the phone. So he's like, we in. So I said, hold on. We called Jimmy. I said, Jimmy, I got a deal on the line. Rough riders is in. Jimmy again called David Cohen. The same lawyer from earlier. Yeah. He said, yo, David, let's do a rollover deal. Let let Dre and rough riders share eat. Put on rough riders. And then after that, we had to get her to meet the rest of the rappers. So ended up taking her up in the pit bulls, then. So we're going to this studio in New York and this building, bro, up in, up in Yonkers. It's dogs and there. I mean, you said it was the pit bulls, then. I was like literally, I don't have to be. It's literally pit bulls in the studio, bro. It's cats. I mean, this was some, this was like, I'm like, man. All right, we gotta go do our thing. I just kept her hyped up the whole way. Like, you got to kill this. This is the shot. And all the guys that she finished rapping in the trap of the guys, they was like, all of the rappers kissing all of the guys like, yo, this is, we need to keep her. So then, you know, we switch everything over, move her to New York. Cause at that point, she had gotten moved out of LA and back to Philly. She's a little depressed, get her up there and we move it in New York. Now she like in the thick of it. Yeah. And you know, then Greece is like, is the one at this time at rough riders on the production side and Swiss is the young buck like Eve. They both, so they end up cooking in the room. Yeah. And this is when Eve's, I mean, when Swiss starts just like cutting through with the rough riders compilation of and he did Jaguar, Maniga. And people don't know that's Eve on Jaguar, Maniga. I didn't know that. Yeah. I can hear the voice. Yeah. Yeah. And long behold, then after that, they did what y'all want. And there you go. He was. Chew. And yeah, man. So then it was time to like grow the company a bit. Cause we had, you know, beans on Rockefeller. And beans got on that label. Free styling. He didn't have any demos. Ironically, none of our artists, none of the rappers had demos that could get their deals. Eve wrapped for Mike Lennon, my mother's living room to a beat tape. Beans wrapped in the studio for Jay in New York. Philly's most wanted wrap for his Christina and New York at Atlantic. I wasn't managing them at the time. It was a guy by the name of Stevie G's that was managing them. But we shopped deal. And, you know, and what people don't know is that the first like, probably full album that the nettoons did was on Philly's most wanted. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think Bubani, like was such an incredible MC, you know, I think like the Jay and a few other cats that wrap street rat learn what to do to for rose music off of Bubani. Yeah. Off of Philly's most wanted. Because they had a full body of work and it's these street records. Like, you know what I mean? It's commercialized street records hits too. But so we had pleased on mine that record took off. And these guys I would got them out on tour with cash money and a few other folks. They probably was like some of the first rappers to do South by Southwest because they hit rhythm and crossover radio before they got urban. It was I really was weird. I would happen. And, you know, and then beans and then we had the beefs that was happening. Yeah. So I got an artist on both labels. I got even rock, rock, rock, rough riders, beans that those two labels aren't seeing out at the time. Not seeing out of eye. Yeah. You know, I remember we had the, you know, I remember a rough riders clear eve for beans. And then rock a fellow didn't want to clear eve. Clear. I mean, beans for eve. So we ended up having to have a meeting. I'm like, yo, we all got to talk because we don't have nothing to do with your problem. So I remember it was myself. D.Y. And this guy boomed on the rough riders side and was dainn and big on the other side. And we met up uptown in New York on the corner and we talked it out. So like we don't have anything to do with your problem. These two artists were fairly they both are artists. Y'all can't include us in whatever y'all got going on. You can't include my artists in that. And got it cleared and that became the filly filly record. You know, um, yeah, man. So it's been a lot of twists and turns and magic and streets and this that and the other and the reason why even the, the beans and kiss stuff never like elevated because I was in between with a relationship with rough riders. You know, I remember they had beans had to do something. And then Harlem. And I got a phone call they had beans surrounded. And I got a phone call because you know, beans was rough on New York and they had it surrounded. They thought it was coming up on some, you know, some dumb stuff. Because that was like rough riders territory. And I was like, no bro, he up there to do a shoot and back and I called beans. I said, yo, be careful because they all wrapped around the territory. Just do what you got to do and get out. You know, and he did, you know, but, um, yeah, man. But it's just, you know, we were able to keep the peace. And just allow it to be friendly competition, you know, instead of turning into what it could have been. Did you, did you prefer or do you prefer in the label or outside of the label? Because you've had, you know, you've been general manager of Motown and art Atlantic. Like you've worked at different, at different labels, but then you also have had, you know, your company's like Friday. Yeah. You know what I mean? I enjoy my freedom, right? But at the same time, I feel like the systems need a bit of entrepreneurial, like expertise and partnership that can help them with different things, right? Yeah. So consulting could be good, right? But not going back in like full time. I feel like it's a bit of a handcuff. You know what I mean? And you know, I'm used to owning my stuff. Yeah. So it's a different story when you don't own it. And then you got to listen to so many different people's perspectives and ideas on what they see or demons, the wind and all of that kind of stuff, you know? So I like the freedom. But I would love to always consult the executives, you know, in some of the managers and stuff like that, resources and whatever it takes to help them win, whether it's business development stuff, voice records. Yeah. You know what I mean? So what's next for you? Man, I'm thinking through it now to be honest. You know what I mean? I have plans that I just at this point, I don't want to discuss. Okay. You know, to be honest, it's, it's lining up really well. But you know, I was taught to talk about it when it's done. You know, but I am putting the book out, which I ran it that just got the, um, the feedback from Amazon today, I got to read the final manuscripts on the plane tonight, but it's called the invisible architects. And it's about just that, right? The people that had kind of been in the shadows holding like the business down in various different ways, whether it was the gambling hub, so the guy or Gordy's and this that and the others like these folks that these tools and these skillsets that need to be reapplied to the business. And I kind of got a breakdown from the days at Motown, really looking at what could make these businesses better. Mm-hmm. Um, and what hinders the businesses and just kind of giving a blueprint that if somebody was in this, in this opportunity, how they should really see the parts coming together and, you know, what they should actually do with the parts. So it's not necessarily my story. It's like an infrastructure layout. It's very short. I feel like people don't have long attentions paying to learn reading. So I kept it down to 50 pages, 10 chapters. And that's the first book. Yeah. And then the next one is going to be the story of, you know, the real story of kind of stuff that we talked about today and even stuff that we miss because you can't get a fit at all inside of this because there's executives that I put in place, you know, there's managers that are put in place like, you know, so it's, I want to really talk about the journey in a, in a way, but we are actually on it. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like certain stuff you just don't get away. Yeah. You got to own it so people can really understand the impact that you put into this business and the passion that you put into it. So, you know, the one thing that I say about the executives now and ironically, I hate to say it, but it's like the black executives. A lot of them have terrible phone habits. You know, their calling responses, not the way it should be. You know, when it comes to help and resources, I think a lot of them feel like they have it. Whatever executives in the past didn't feel like they had it. They felt like if you call and I want to know what you feel like, what you got, and I feel like now they feel like they got it. And I feel like that's, it's the easiest way to either get you booted out, you know, because that's not the, you think it's the safe route, but it's not. You know, just kind of sitting back, standing on this, this thing and not taking any risk or this, that and the others best thing that you could do is get with some vets. And match those, those wits up just like vets need to get with young people. Match those wits up. It's like there's no lineage inside of the mechanism that we see that is working, but we're watching it with other genres. Yeah. We see African music, the old guys, they still in it. Latinos, they still in it. And so and so forth, they still in it. We're here. We're like, we're like this when it should be more together because there's information that everybody could share that can ultimately make this system like consistently crank with quality. Yeah. So just need to get back to it. You know, I'm waiting to see, you know, who's going to invite that kind of energy and, you know, I'm excited to see Ethiopia back in the saddle. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So, you know, whatever helps she needs, we're going to give it to her. We want to see her win. You know what I mean? You know, she gambled on QC early and they had a heck of a run and look what they ended up. So it's like now, it's like, you know, how do you pour into her? You know, I don't want to gig, but I would definitely consult. You know what I mean? Those wins. I just want to see people win, bro. And I want to see the music and the environment get better. You know, we can't just be, you know, you look at rap. They got us as killers and hoes. It's too much. You know, it has no balance. We know it's like, what's the family listening to? Right. You know, now I'm watching people with little babies, two, three, four, your babies with stacks of money in their hand and chains on and stuff like that. I'm like, okay, well, if you, if you have this now, what will you appreciate when you are 21 when you are on your own? And what if that can't come? Then now you're going to be going in the wrong direction. This will end up pressed on drugs and jail, this, that and the other. There's, there's a time and a place for everything. For sure, man. And I just don't feel like that is the place for children. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? I don't feel like the language is the place, no, nothing. And we got to tighten up. We got to tighten up, bro. Because R&B music, black music has always led the way for every genre, the flavors come off of that influence, whether it's rock and roll, whether it's jazz, hip-hop, whatever. And right now, it's not at that place. And it's got to get back. That's why I championed the Lyon's. He wants to be great. Yeah. And he's pouring it in, bro. You know, going to the shows and watching the shows and just watching this kid just like crank night after night and he's singing. Singing actually. Not singing. He's saying. So, you know, look, man, it's, uh, I don't think it's at a loss, but I just feel like, you know, people need to work more together to get it together. I agree. You know, and if that happens, because it's not like it's not talent out here, I think that there's a lack of, of skill sets to see real talent. I'm watching people grab singers that they can sing, but they're not stars. Sure. And we know that like not always is the greatest singers, the ones that make it. Right. Oversing in and how many runs you can do. Man, this is about talent story. Yeah. You know, you know, that has a singer. It's like, you could run if you want, but you know, you got to tell that story. I got to save all that extra candy for this place and that place or for live, but not throughout the song. I thought the song, yeah. And I'm listening to people misplaced runs. You know, they got them in places that, oh, you just thought that that would be cool right there. So you said, hold up, punch that in. Let me hit that. He was like, didn't fill it. You know, so it's some cool, some cool talent, man. Yeah. Some cool talent. I want, I want to say, man, thank you for, for pouring in us. Like tanking, I both know you for two decades. Yeah, I'm sure. My God. But that's not always a thing that a lot of executives do. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just saying it as like, oh, yeah, you're my guys, but a lot of people were, people's guys and they still don't pour in. But I mean, but you know what, though, man, to be honest with you, man, I never bought into me being like this music business person. Like this is, this just happened to be what I love to do. Yeah. But if you know this, you take two, you don't, you've never seen me in parties and this that and the other, I do it. I got to go home. All of the other stuff, man, is the distraction from learning and studying, like what you're doing to be great. Like it's not about how popular you are. It's how great you are. And it's also about, you know, what have you done as a service? Everybody can eat on their own. Everybody can do for themselves, but like, have you put yourself as you gained in this business? Have you also put yourself out there as a service to others? Yeah. That's the key. Anybody can do for yourself. You gain, bro, by dropping debt here, I can drop debt over here, knowing that he's going to pay it off when he get on the stage, when he's getting the studio. I could drop debt here. And I know you're going to work to get it done. A lot of times the debt is being dropped in the wrong places. Yeah. Because people don't have great choices or they got some of weird other things going on in their mind that they want to take over people. I don't want to take what with nobody, bro. I don't want your credit. I want nothing. That is why you'd be good. That's it. You even know each other a long time. Yeah. I never stepped you like, oh man, Chase, let me manage you. I never hit you. Don't let me manage you. For what? It's just messy. She's being part of the community, bro, I'm sorry. I said everything else is. Yeah. Chomp stuff, man. It's real. Real chomp stuff, bro. So you know, coming back, you know, coming back to Motown after leaving the business for 10 years, bro, we're coming to Motown after leaving the business for 10 years. It's like going back to your old neighborhood after you left and you came back, it's been completely gentrified and rearranged. And you're like, what happened to miss cookie store and the things that made this thing great. It's no longer there. And everybody is a star. So it's like how you were starting your making. Even the way it stars, everybody's in the way it stars. Everybody's an influencer. The executives are influencers. They're starting the other. So okay, if you got so much attention on how to make your image, how much energy are you putting into these artists? Beyond it. I see more pictures of you on your socials than I do of artists that you working on. I see you with these titles, but I don't see the work that got you there. I can't see you worked on this, this, this, this, and this. Now I see why you're there. These are like social credits. Yeah. And it's sad to say, but it's true. Before I got the first gig, bro, I landed some real records and set some careers up where people looking like, oh, this dude is on the cell. Right. You know what I'm saying? Now I'm not looking at that onto something thing. We got to get back to that. I can't salute it. It's bad, bro. You look around. You're like, okay, it can't be this many people claim that they doing this stuff. And we're here versus here before it was less people doing it. More success. Now it's more people doing this less success. It's like it's a playground. God, God, get rid of the playground. Get back to the work. Get back to the stars. Get back to quality music. Get back to real songwriting. It's AI stuff that I'm hearing people talk about. Ain't got outright no human being, bro. You can hear it. I have people sending me AI songs. I call them back. Somebody sent me one today. I say, oh, you did that on AI, huh? So how'd you know? Because it has no soul. It's nothing there. I could feel it. And it does certain things. Yeah. It takes certain routes. It does certain things consistently. No matter the drawing ripple that you listen, you just like, yeah. You ain't even go in once you've got the sauce from it, at least go in and tweak it to make it something like you're settling in on this. Right. Because you think you got one. It's like it ain't one. I tell the guy that they I'm like, okay, I hear this right here, but where's the hook? This feels like the pre-hook, but where's the, you know, I'm saying it wasn't there. He was like, I never even thought about it like that. I said, wow. Very interesting that you didn't. They're in the computer door to thinking, huh? Man. I like the oven, bro. Yeah. That Michael event cool. Yeah. I can go to bathroom, come back that food for the microwave, be cold. Yeah. I can go wash my car and run to the store real quick. Yeah. You know, oven food still at least going to be warm. Yeah. Yes. I get back to that. Yeah. So, you know, now I love it. That's my story, bro. I'm sticking to it. Yeah. I like the story, bro. I like, I like that we're part of it, bro. I mean, for some, but I worked at it, though, man, like you can't be in it this long. And not have done the work. Right. That's where we come from. You know, yeah, that is our why. What made for some reason? Yeah. You know, I'm saying like an ultimately, you know, there is a set, there will be a separation. Like you, you, you see the artists who are really what they say they are. Oh, yeah. What they do and where they do it. Yeah. I mean, look Bruno is like a crazy example of that, right? Well, people like, yeah, just keep putting up music every year. I mean, I mean, two a year and this, that, and you know, I was like, man, I ain't number blowout. If you put quality out, this guy proved that you can take off eight years, I think 10, 10 years without a project and come back and they waiting for you. Yeah. But what's even crazier is that he's doing larger venues than he did before. Yeah. And he's taking us waiting. Come on, man. Lea, come on, Victoria. Yeah. Yeah. Take the people, man. Ray. Come on. It's happening. Yeah. It's happening. So that's the quality we speak of that again, that it should be, should be note should be taken. Well, I'm hoping Copycat culture makes people look at these examples and say, wow, I got to step it up. Because it is Copycat culture right now, of course. So, you know, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I'm waiting. I know what they can't copycat. Tanking this damn Casio. That's what they can't copycat. Ha, ha. Yeah. That's like that. You know what? I didn't hear some little hate about your keyboard lately, but it's been people that just been, you know, maybe in the comments, they've talked about your looking board. I said, let my guy be great with those seven kids. Go ahead, take this out. Take it. If they can beat me, beat me. You know what I'm saying? They can beat you, Jeff. If they can beat me, they can beat you, Jeff. I'm a Casio. Ha, ha. Like my, like my brother Mark said, I'm just trying to be a service. Yeah. To me and Casio. Ha, ha. I'm going to attempt something. You have to long Vegas weekend with, ha, ha. With little vocal I have left, but I'm not going to let you leave here. We're about to say 17 deep, no sleep, no sleep, no sleep, we, we, we. Ha, ha. But that you get an opportunity to let them go. You know what I mean? I'm going to say 17 deep, no sleep, no sleep, no sleep, we, we, we. Ha, ha. But that you get an opportunity to let the people know. Yeah. We go let them know, gee. You're. You're gone. Top five. Your top five. Yeah. Top five. Your top five. Our bee singers. Are in these songs. We've got to know before you go. Yeah. Here on the show, put your body on the note. I'll be on top five. Yeah. Ha. Oh, no. Top five. Ha. Oh. Your top five. Yeah. Yeah. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. So I say Stevie. Nope. What all? Ha. I don't know. Top five. I'm giving to you. R&B singers. Top five R&B singers. Let's go. Let's go. Stevie. Teddy Pinnigress. Glad it's night. Yeah. Shacket kind. And ironically, man. I really love Maureen's white. What do you mean? What? I really like really like, you know, I really like. I mean, most of the people picked like these solo singers, right? But like, Maureen was called. Oh. And just what he was singing about. And it's... Some people have voices like they're just defined generations in a sense. It's one of those. It's a voice. Well, man, it's just a voice in itself. It's just the gift. You don't have to do a whole bunch or nothing. Not a whole bunch. As soon as you hear that voice, it... Yeah. There we go. Now, Maureen's right, he's be cruising. Now we get to cruise in. We there now. Yeah, cruise. And glad it's like... Like, I love that you named artists that recorded records from top to bottom. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. These are no punches. No punches. Yeah, no pro tools. They say no pro... So you see them live. They sound exactly like the record. And listen, bro. You hear Gladys sing, you want to bust, bro? Come on, man. Come on, man. Come on, man. I worked on the song with Gladys. Mm-hmm. On my very first opportunities to produce and write for Gladys night. Wow. Yeah. And I watched that woman sing. I looked at what she listened to the song for about 20. So I'll repeat, setting the back. It's... All right, all right, I'm ready. She went in that booth. Top. Two bottom. And I'm talking perfection. I'm talking perfection, bro. Mm-hmm. I know. You want to tell me I get it. My desire to try and produce her. My only... The only thing my only critique was... I just need another one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's it. Let me get back in here again. Let me just... Yeah. Just do one more track. Yeah. Please. Please. Yeah. Actually, pretty please. Come on, man. I get it. That was the first time I've ever seen that done. Mm-hmm. And it made me... You want to do that. Yeah. I've got a couple... I know you mentioned... I know you mentioned... I know you mentioned songs too. I'm going to get the songs. I ain't getting the songs yet. I'm going to stay at that five. Okay. Okay. Because we could call it all into that. You want to get the songs? Okay. Songs. Your top five R&B songs. Let's go. Man, I don't know if I can go in five. Well, yeah. I think... I like... After the love is gone. Mm-hmm. It's incredible. Incredible. As... Stevie's incredible. I like... My favorite record actually is Wonderful World. Mm. Yeah, it's my favorite record, bro. I'm all time. Yeah. Yeah, it's my favorite record, bro. That's the night. It's funny, man, because, you know... I guess because it was also in Disney when you and the kids... Yes. And this record, bro, just like... Kind of defines life. Yes. You know what I mean? So, Wonderful World has always stood out, you know... Mm-hmm. You know, to me, just like one of those records that feel like... As things progress, like, it's really a party. Yeah. You know what I mean? Man. It's a... I like the children record for Marvin Gaye. Mm-hmm. Big fan of that record. He's in that list, but... I like that record. Any one more? No, man. Ooh, if I'm no. I know. The OJs make love. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You try something. Of course that record. You try something. Of course that record. OJs was a nasty, bro. Just... They... Dude, man. They're trusty. They're two voices together. Him and Walter, bro. Perfect married. Unbelievable. Perfect married. One smooth and one aggressive. Man. I got to watch them every night. Yeah. Is that their original KCN Jojo? Mm-hmm. Might be. Might be. Yeah. Well, you go back. Listen to that record on your way home. Because they... Yeah. They definitely stayed and they lay in the... And they like to tell you that record is going to be ringing through your car. Yeah. It's night time, too. Yeah. It's night time, too. Music sounds really good at night, absolutely. You know what I mean? Just like, you know, in the East Coast, music sounds extremely good when it's snowing the ground. And it's snowing in your car. It's just all boxes muted. You know what I'm saying? It's like your car's like soundproofed. Right, it's a love get out right in the middle of the music and it's snow. So you didn't have your top down with a fair on. No, I'm proud. Okay. No. I'm going to have a big teddy peep. No, I'm going to have a big teddy peep. I'm going to have a big teddy peep. I'm going to have a big teddy peep. Keep it classic, but I've never been one for Flash, but he did it. Yeah. He did it. I'm in my next video. I'm in the first. Top down. Do it. You know what I'm going to have. That's a cozy. I'll be at the studio wherever you doing your shaking the box. Shaking the box of snow down on you. Let's make a bold drawing, Uncle Mark. Let's make your super R&B artists. Okay. In building your artists, we want to know who you're going to get the vocal from, the performance style, the styling, the passion of the artists. And who's going to produce for that artist? And right. Producing right for that artist. Yeah. Wow. You've done a lot of put together. Wow. You've put shit together. Okay. I'm vocal. I'm vocal. Who's vocal? Levi's the... 24 times. Yes. I love that. Levi's the... I love that. That is a first. There is no heavier voices out here. And Levi was like, he was a monster. He took on the temptations by himself. By himself. When they had... They sang. Really go back. Really take the time and go back. And then you just leave out. Yeah. You know, I love Levi and I love Felipe win. I like him. He's just one vocal. Yeah, just one vocal. So we're going to go with Levi's performance style. Performance style. On stage. You're killing the crown. Sam Cook. Yeah. Sam Cook. He's not everybody could be like the ushers and the chrissers and the... And the... James Browns and... Cats like that put... You can learn to have presence. So... Yeah. Sam Cook. What's my next one? I feel like you came here in a Buick. The styling of the artist. It's a drip of the artist. A drip. I think it could range. Is this a show? It's a showtime. It's a showtime. Yeah, I think it's a range. I think they should be able to range from streetwear to being super clean. You know what I mean? You singing a baller than a sweatsuit. No. No, go put that thing on. Yeah. And come back out. So what artist do you think has that range? Right. It's a styling. It's just a bit of our time. Of our time? Teddy Pindegraff was called. Right now, I don't know if I see it in full. We're going to Teddy B. Yeah. I don't see it in full. It's still on our Buickless Abre. I don't know if it's a fashion. You can still ride a Benz with that though, baby. I've listened to them. No, I feel you're saying that you're going deep into the crates. Yeah. It wouldn't, you know, Benz is going crazy like that. And I'm able to. You got to know where you came from to know where you're going. 100%. So I feel like people not going far back in there. Yeah. To that. So yeah, that's why I wanted to put you on a Buick or a big body cataly. I take the candy. Yeah. With the white one. Baby blue, white good. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. There you go right there. Yeah. My pop had him a high guineae Fleetwood bro. Hmm. Bro, we call it bro ham with the with the with the tires with white white. White was a man. Yeah. Yeah. Stay clean. I don't know. I wish I was. I know you were the passion of the artist who mean it. James Brown. Easy. I know. That's what you know what that that that that's. James Mcdonald. And you go get up on that. Yeah. Yeah. That's you want to do. Yeah. You want to get up on that. Yeah. Yeah. You got to do it. That's it. All of it. James is all of it. Yeah. And what producer you going to put this on? Producer and writer. To work with this artist. Producer write a compo. Yep. Wow. Is your good at that. Hmm. I'll put a few writers in. But producer. I would take the lead a gamble and huff, but I would put. The dramby that I was under him. Hmm. Like camp wise. I would put. I like the kid that. That does lucky day. What's his name? He did lucky day. I think he did Bruno to. I mean, I know Phillip Lawrence has Bruno. Not Cameron. What's he? He did Lucky's first album. Not Deem out. Deem out. Deem out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, you know, I didn't know. Deem out. Yeah. Because I want the arc to be at a beat air where you've got the tempo, you've got the major, you've got to live, but it all feels like it belong together. 100%. So I would, I would let that be like the crew. Yeah. You know, I'm saying that that could run the gamut. Yeah. I like to put that together. Yeah. Writers. Man. Babyface. Yeah, sorry. Leon, I would use as a writer. Then the create. I would use as a writer. Yeah. And this could be controversial, but we just talking talent. Yeah. And this could be controversial. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know he's got his, you know, these flaws and everything, but we just talking talent. Yeah. And talent only. It's probably got one of the most incredible pens of his time of history. Yeah. Yeah. And can do Kim Reigns so you can get that tempo record out of him too. Yeah. Yeah. So that's it for me, fellas. I don't really know. Yeah. We got one more thing because we let you get on this plane because we know we know what listen. Yeah. What time we got? I'm keeping time. Oh. Now come on. Are you really? Yeah. We're going to keep you out of here. You're going to keep you out here. You're going to make your flight. You sure? Yeah. You're going to make your flight. I'm covered. I said no names. Hey. I said no names. I said no names. I said no names. I said no names. I said no names. Where you at. I said no names. I said no names. So the sped up version is, you tell us a story. Funny, I fucked up. A funny and fucked up. The only rule to the game is you can't say no names. What do you think? That's a good one. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. other than I said, leave. She's a session. She had to took him in the hallway. Leave. Do they leave? I said, come and hold tight with the hotel. I get a phone call. They're like, we need the guys to come back. Where are they? I said, the session's over today. Do I get another phone call? I part messy. I say, really? That's just so now. I said, I am all. They're like, who are we still wanting to come back? I said, now you missed both sessions. Because now the guys ain't coming back at all. That was disrespect. Then we get a phone call. We're like, how? This is possible that we can meet. I'm so sorry. I just applauded at it. Can we just sit down and talk? And it's that. We went up and talked and they offered all this stuff. And we was like, now we're cool. Thanks. But no thanks. And there's so many things in between for finding the funny that I can't say the name of. But just imagine you lose a session because of your mouth. We've seen so many. So many. So many. You know? But you have to protect your guys. So if in fact, this happened on their watch, shut it down. It's not fresh tomorrow. You killed the vibe. Even though it was nothing against them, you know what I mean? It is for the environment. Yeah. Environment. Got to go. So I don't know how funny I could make that story without really getting in because there's other details that definitely made it funny. But I can't tell it. Because if I tell it, then you understand. Yeah. Because it was so. You don't say it. You'd be like, hmm, now who could have been this? Right. Yeah. It would have definitely fell out. So you just got to imagine the funny. I'll take it. Brother Mark, Elder Biers, been doing this thing for a long time, man, and your contributions are heard and felt. Appreciate it. All over this universe, man. So we thank you for your time. We appreciate your brotherhood. I appreciate the call. Yeah, you know. And we support your continued contributions. I'm supporting you all now. To this thing. You know what I'm saying? I'm supporting you all now. It's what we do. I'll take it. You know what I'm saying? I'll take it. So with that being said, I'm going to need you off of charity. Yes. Yes. You know, yes. The new artist, the young artist, I've been helping me to get me off of her. Super talented. Definitely one of them ones. I feel like what was predicted on Leon, I think charity has that same opportunity as a girl. Wow. That's it for me for the night, gentlemen. Love it. I appreciate your time. Listen, listen. We're going to sound y'all, sign you off the right way. My name is Tank. I'm Jay Valentine. And I'm Mark Byers. You're just my bias. And this is the already my podcasting party. Yeah. On all things. Yes, sir. R&B. It's man never slows down. It's as you were here. Our brother. I just joined as the third member. This is our first show. Mark. Mark Byers, y'all. Yeah. Yeah. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.