Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 90: Peak Experience

This is exactly right. Hello and welcome. To Rewind with Karen in Georgia. Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights. Today we're recapping episode 90 which we named Peek Experience. This episode came out on October 12th, 2017. Alright, let's listen to the intro of episode 90. Steven, you have to be like a fucking on the street reporter when we're being so interesting. Always be recording. AVR. Everyone knows this. Always be recording with us. Listen, if we're going to talk about Gerard Depardieu, we need everyone to hear it in the world. Breaking news, America. Gerard Depardieu admits to drinking 14 bottles of wine a day. God damn. Dude. His teeth must be more stained than mine. I mean, not stained, they're falling out. I mean, perhaps, but he's so drunk he doesn't give a fuck. I think that's how much Andre the Giant would drink. And you know that. And like, yeah, he'd eat like 12 chickens and drink like 17, six packs of beer. I wish, I wish Vince Verheerne could ask him because that's what he would actually do. And Vince always hated red wine and then he found out that Andre the Giant loved Bordeaux. No, I'm sorry, he loved Bougelet wine. So we tracked it down and like now we drink Bougelet wine because Andre the Giant drank it. You know that I love giants, right? No. That's like, it's one of my jams. I had never even thought of that as a thing. Yeah, I'm upset. Oh, welcome. This is my favorite murder, the podcast. I want to start at, I'm obsessed with giants because the rest of it was all bullshit. I mean, was it or was it some of the best podcasting we've ever done that anyone's ever done? Breaking ground. America. Robert Wildlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records. And if you are a child of the late 70s, early 80s, like myself before there was the Internet before the were cell phones and smartphones, before there really even was that much TV. We just had four channels. You did things like sit in your aunt's living room and read the Guinness Book of World Records. Did that so hard, right? Fuck yeah. Twins on, fat twins on motorcycles. Longest nails in the world. Longest nails. Longest hair. Giants. I love giants. I had no idea. Robert Wildlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records. He's a tallest man. I think the tallest one from America. Yeah. He was, I was going to say 7 foot 12. And this is my favorite murder podcast. Hello, now you know it's really us. That was like the pin number of proving that it's us by me saying Robert Wildlow was 7 foot 12. Did I ever tell you my bra story in when I was in elementary school? No. I'm like, I've had flattest chest forever. Right. And in the Guinness Book? Yes. As a matter of fact. When I was little I had like no boobies like most kids do, but like sixth grade when girls start to get their boobies. And so everyone was sitting around talking about like what bra size they have now. And someone was like, I have a 34A and I have a this not. And I went, well, I have a 35A. Because they were like, that's not, I was so embarrassing. Yeah. You're just, you were just trying to compete. I was just trying to get in there. Either. Yeah. When you just look at my anyways. But now I just remind you every girl in that circle did the exact same thing at a different period of time. Yes. And that's what no one ever talks about. And sometimes that's why people are so mean is because people were mean to them when it happened to them. So then when someone else does it, they descend like fucking. And they're so happy it's on someone, the attention's on someone else and not them. That's what it's all about. Yeah. Do you know this is the, this is the reason and I wish I had had this when I was done is how to laugh at yourself. Yeah. Because that just, no one can fucking make fun of you if you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I said that stupid thing. Yes. It doesn't affect you. But I think when you're at that age, like you can't laugh at yourself until you're around 37. In my, in my experience. That's how old I am. Well, congratulations. Thank you. I'm now laughing at myself. It's going to be so much fun. Oh my God, I can't wait. Oh, but the thing is you have to drink 12 bottles of wine a day. You have to day part do that shit. I got about three more bottles to go today. And I'm good. Let's get you there. Go there. I just love that people have these interests, giants for you that like you would never think of as a thing that you're really into. Have you ever heard of Anna Swan, the giantess of Nova Scotia? Of course not. I'm a normal person. She's humongous. She's humongous. Oh my God. And amazing looking and she married a giant. So they were, they were traveling circus people because they were both huge. I love them. And they're, look her up because there's pictures where there are people standing in front of her looking up and she's like two grown men standing on each other in a hiding in a dress to get into the movies. I dressed as Anna Swan. But I love her because apparently people, she got constant marriage proposals. Oh my God. That's like part of her story where I'm just like, what, where's this world? Yeah. I want to go to that world. I want to be a giant. Yeah. That's fucking cool. It's the best. I want to go back to giants. No, I want, that's all I wanted to talk about this whole time is your obsession with giants. I really do love when people have this thing that they know all about and are obsessed with. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's so cool. Hey, this is my favorite part of the podcast. That's Karen Kilgariff. I'm Georgia Hardstark. That's right. Okay. I have a couple of things this week to talk about. Now we're really being serious. Before we start the murder. All right. Everyone could stop telling us to listen to Dirty John. Yes. It's happening. Listen to an episode and a half. Here's the two problems I have with it. One, Vince found out the ending and told me for some reason, but I did think, I'm not going to listen. Just tell me. And he told me, oh, then that's your fault. It's totally my fault. And then the other thing is the women, the daughters who are being interviewed in the podcast, they're from Irvine, which is where I'm from and sound like every girl I went to high school with and it's giving me fucking PTSD. That's a serious problem. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, but it's a good story and I'm excited to listen. I mean, people are going crazy about it. Yeah. It reminds me of S town a little bit. So I'm listening out my heart broken by S town. So dear John, I mean, I'm going to need you to dear John, that you mean the Judd Hirsch series. Yes. Um, people get obsessed and here's what I love. I sit back when those things hit and I just let them go. I let everything wash over. And then I watch how the first wave is everyone going, this is amazing. You have to listen to it. The second wave is always, it wasn't that good or it sucked. That's who I am. Right. And then, then I wait a little bit longer and then they'll always be someone that's like, no, here's what, here's the situation. Right. Nothing's perfect, but it's like, but it gets you here and you'll like it because of this and it's this and it's interesting or whatever. I think it's just, it's a different, it's such a, it's such a specific story that it's not going to appeal to everyone. So they're, they're saying everyone's obsessed with it. We're just like, no, some people aren't that into like, you know, fraud stories or whatever. Okay. The other thing, and then Steven sent us this like a couple of news links that some new photos from Jonestown came out. Oh. All right. And it's from when they're in Ghana. Right. And it's, it's basically photos that look like, I think this is what most of them are like from a brochure. It's propaganda. Like trying to get people to move to Jonestown. Yeah. Look how happy everyone is. They're smiling, they're working, they're living on a commune, you know, and look how great everyone looks. Although, you know, there's an interesting race here and everyone works and everyone loves it and the children are learning, but it's all fake. And then there's like one photo of, there's a couple photos from the day they all killed themselves. Oh, he killed them. He killed them. Yeah. He killed them. Right. And it's, it's just fucked up. Yeah. And then there was some kind of chemist. chemist was chemist was chemist was chemist was chemist was chemist was chemist was chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist chemist and then her, a bag of her body parts were found floating in the ocean, including her decapitated head with no injuries on it, which means she did not hit her head. And now Peter Mattson is being looked into for unsolved murders in Norway and Sweden. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's brand new. That's a story on AP from 10 hours ago. Oh my God, that's fucking, I love what, I mean, I don't love when, you know what I mean. Well, just that this is developing, this is unlike so many things where we're like, and then we just never hear about it again. This is still a developing story. And I think it's because so many journalists loved her and she was a well respected journalist. And there's not a lot of murders there, it seems like. Where it's in Norway and Sweden. Sweden or wherever this, this was Denmark, I think, right? Listen. Look. Look and listen. There's another show that's out. It's Mike Judges Tales from the Tour Bus. And this is completely off of any topic of true crime or anything. This is purely a joyous thing Mike Judges making. And it is people who toured, worked for, had anything to do with country singers of the past, telling stories about working with them. So the first issue. On the road. Yes, exactly. We're just in general. The first episode is Johnny Paycheck, who is the guy that wrote Take This Job and Shove It. Oh, yeah. And it's amazing. The guy was in, he was a lunatic. It's animated for the most part with old footage as well. Yeah. It's, yes, exactly. So they'll get, they'll show you pictures of the album covers and some real things, but then most of it is animation. And it's all these band members, hairdressers, relatives. It's so great. Telling stories. So there's so far they've done Johnny Paycheck, George Jones and Tammy Weynett and Jerry Lee Lewis, which is crazy. Fucking married his child cousin. That's right. She was 14. She's on it. She talks. Shut up. Yeah. I need to watch that. She's, it's like she's in her 60s. I just remember as a kid, Great Balls of Fire, that movie about the biopic movie. Sure. It's not a thing. I loved it. Like we went and saw it at the movie theater. It was so great. It was so much fun. I loved it. It was pedophile. Yeah. Why were they letting me watch it, parents? Well, it was a different time. And that's why we're trying to make America great again. Can I tell you what I did watch the other? Oh, sorry. That's OK. Speaking of pedophile, when I did watch the other day and I hadn't realized how long ago it had been since I watched it was Silence at the Lambs. Oh, yeah. I've seen the ending a million times, but I hadn't actually watched the first part of it. It's so good. I want to cry. Catherine Martin, FBI, you're safe. I didn't understand any of it back then. You know what I mean? You mean when you first watched it? Yeah. Like I didn't understand how she figured out how he knew who Buffalo Bill was and how this and how that. Because you know why I looked up what year it came out and I saw it in the theater and have seen it a million times. I was 11 years old when I watched Buffalo or I watched Silence at the Lambs in the fucking theater. That's hilarious. She threw a comment her face. Yes, he did. And I was like, what was that? Georgia, the idea that you didn't know. How could they let me watch that? No wonder I have a fucking true crime obsession. It's true. That's so funny because you were 11 watching that down in Irvine. I was 21 in Sacramento and we watched it at the Tower Theater. And I remember this thing rolling out in front of me. And I had already read the book and I was watching it every second of it. I was just like, this is the best movie ever. This is the best movie I've ever. Like I was losing my mind. So happy. So happy. It was my Star Wars. Amelie was my Star Wars. Because I was like a hipster 19 year old. Like, I love her. I want to be her. That movie is amazing. That movie holds up. Oh, for sure. Love it. So charming. OK. Yeah. Sends of the Lambs. Thanks, mom and dad. You've ruined me. Now look at me. I'm the best. I pick I pick loving myself over photos. Do it. I'm trying. It's just a matter. I had a really good day of loving myself up until I opened Twitter and saw this picture where I'm like, am I in denial that I'm going bald and just not seeing it? What the fuck happened? And I'm like, oh, that's right. It's my gray roots. Yeah. Fuck. Fuck. It fuck everything. Fuck it. Fuck the world. Yeah. Fuck it. I mean, look. Listen, my friend Molly said on the phone the other day, she was like, I mean, the bomb's going to drop, right? Oh, yeah. Let's do this thing. She's talking about like I'm flirting with a barista or something like that. And then I was just like, oh, my God, you're so right. It's nothing matters. We're on a clock here, people. Nothing matters, but water is currency. Water is currency. Let's have some peak experiences before things go to shit. You know what I mean? Experiences sound like someone something someone on their way to Burning Man would say. Totally. We're about to have a peak experience. Yeah. Let's try to get out there every day. And if if your peak experience is drinking nine bottles of wine, do it. My peak experience is staying at home and chilling out and watching. Oh, I paid. Oh, my God. OK, last thing I swear to God. Vince was gone all week out of town. So I was like going to be my fucking natural self, which just turns out the most disgusting that like person. Like the sheets had been taken off before we left. And I didn't ever put sheets on my bed. Oh, I just slept on the random sheets I threw on top of. So you were kind of squatting in your own house. I was squatting. I'm gross. It was terrible. And then one night I was like, I'm staying home and drinking whiskey. And I want to watch cold case files. And then I get a text from then saying you're watching cold case files. And I realized it was because I had just spent $20 on season one of cold case files on our Amazon. And it's under his name. And so it emailed him to let him know that his wife just spent $20 to watch season one of cold case files of a show that probably if you put it into your DVR, it would bring up 29 episodes. If you put it if you go to YouTube, it's like, here's everything for free. And you're like, no, I'm going to pay premium. No, I want Bill Curtis to have that money. I think he needs more brown leather jackets. And I'm going to be the one that buys the for him. I owe him. He has narrated our lives. He's narrated my life. He has brought a somber and reasonable attitude. Very reasonable. Terrible, terrible murders and crimes. Yep. And he's been there for us. Thank you, Bill. I mean, he let us know that justice was right around the corner. Oh my God, I love cold case files. OK. Was he the host of cold case files? You know what's weird? Danny Glover was originally the host. No. What the fuck? Excuse me. Swear to God, except fact check that, Steven. Like swear to almost, I think. But you know, it's going to be some actor that's like super similar, but I can never remember who's whom. Yes. Who's whom, though? You do remember to say whom. I mean, I'm not that stupid. Oh, I should say this. The Northern California wildfires are intense and crazy and huge swaths of where I grew up is burning down. I'm obsessed with those photos, which is terrible, but in a fucking. The comparative ones of the neighborhood and the neighborhood. It's just like the thought of your house being turned a fucking ash. Yeah. And those people, the people that it's like there is a neighborhood slightly north of the main city of Santa Rosa, but Santa Rosa is the next city up from Petaluma. That's where we used to go to the mall to get close for school. You had to go to the next city. Yeah. And the neighborhood, it's like a little bit north of the of the main city. The people were woken up at one thirty in the morning with people just saying run. They didn't get any kind of emergency. Like it was just panic, grab whatever you could and run out of your house as you're as like the flames were coming. She first think about like aside from pets, obviously, what you would grab. Yeah. It's pictures, I think, mostly. Like my computer, that's the good thing is my sister started packing tonight just in case because there's still more fires and everybody now just wants to be ready. But we were like, everything's on the computer. Like pictures are now on computers. Like I love this house, but like I love my ship, but it's all just church keys. It's all that's what I said to my sister. I go, we can replace anything in your house. Grab anything that's irreplaceable if you can. Yeah. I guess there's a photo album. I don't know, whatever. Yeah, you guys stay safe. And we are back into 2026. My God, we're just talking about a brand new podcast called Dirty John. I can't imagine how Vince spoiled that for me. Like how did he know about it? Had he already known about the story? I doubt it. I'm the true crime one in the family. I don't know, but he just had the instincts where he's just like. Yeah. It's that guy. That guy's no good. Definitely. Speaking of being that guy, no good. Gerard Depardieu is just like a fucking trash monster, it turns out. Yeah, that didn't all. It's so weird having a show this long where you can literally look back for like 10, almost 10 years before and be like, yeah, that didn't, that actually didn't pan out so well. That, that didn't age. That's talking about Gerard Depardieu. No, it did not. Him, us, nobody's getting out of here alive. I'm telling you that right now. Danny Glover, no way. No, Danny Glover has nothing to do with cold case files. What the, where did I get that from? That would be great though. Can I suggest it? I mean, I think you were thinking of a different show and a different host, but that was what it was like back then. I'm saying that we just didn't know anything and it was and that's OK. We really were like, oh, well, whatever. Throw it out there. Steven, keep recording because this is this is brilliant information that they need. Still very funny. Also, sorry if anybody's going to call me a latecomer to this whole Giants trend bullshit. I was there. That's so crazy. How hilarious is that? We were just talking about it, but I was like, you like, I didn't know you like Giants. What? That's right. We can't remember everything from 10 years ago. That's hilarious. It's actually perfect timing because MFM Animated's newest episode is literally called Karen Loves Giants. I won't drop it. It's on our YouTube page at youtube.com. Slash exactly right media. Well, you shouldn't because it's new information for me every couple years. Yeah, that's well, it's good to update other people about our little our little preferences and our peccadillos. Sure. Is it peccadillos? Peccadillos. I was just thinking, imagine if they came out with an Italian giant. I'd lose my mind. They came out with. There's a line. There's just a fucking. Apple comes out with an Italian giant that you can have your own. If you know an Italian giant, please email us at my favorite. I'm sure there's one out there already. There's gotta be. They make them in every flavor, right? It's like there's gotta be. Someone do something about my needs being met. I have other stuff to do and I can't do it for myself. It explains the 12 foot tall skeleton now, though, like really well. Yeah, you know, it's all been in there. Yeah, just waiting. I like miniatures and you like enormous things. Opposites. We're going to get into this episode now and we absolutely should because, oh, man, I can remember you telling me this episode and the information that you were giving about the real story behind the Amityville horror murders. Are you first or am I first? I think it's you, see then? I think it's me, too. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Are we counting that? Yeah, we're counting what happens to us. We're counting what we decide. Yeah, and I'm going to go first. All right, have a peak experience with this one. All right, it's October. Everyone's favorite month. It's fucking Halloween time. Listen, let's do this. It's like you're giving me a sales pitch in a voice that says I'm not interested. I'm not interested in working with you. Well, I did this murder because I wanted to do it. And then I realized I could fucking tag it on to the fact that it's Halloween time. Oh, yeah. But it's very loose. OK. So I don't I'm not I'm not married to it. You know what I mean? Got it. And I also watched this the way I actually did think of doing this is I watched this movie on Netflix, like a Netflix movie that I had heard nothing about called Little Evil that ended up being so fucking good. Oh, good. It's basically if the kid from like if Satan's spawn, the spawn of Satan had a mother and the mother was Evangeline Lilly and she married a man who became the spawn of Satan's stepdad. And it is Adam Scott. Oh, and it's so charming and so cute and funny. I don't know how this just like went under the radar and Bridget Everett is like his sidekick. Wow. It's such a charming movie. So it's like it's it's like comedy. It's a dark comedy. That's awesome. It's so good. So please go watch it. And then I thought, oh, that's fun. So here it is. Here's the story, the real story behind the Amityville horror. Yes. You ready for this? OK, just really quick. And I know I've said this a thousand times. The hardback cup, the hardback book of the Amityville horror. So it's shaped like a paperback, but it had a hard white cover. Huh. Was the book in my grammar school library that I checked out so many times? Sister Rita Rose got mad at me. I forgot that it was that book. And now I feel like I've stolen a murder from you. You have not. OK. And I celebrate this and I'm thrilled. OK, I want to tell baby Karen a little Karen about this story. Well, she's right here. Well, I'm going to tell her right now. I don't want you to. That's what she's like. All right. So of course, everyone knows about the Amityville horror, the movie. It's this haunted house that's like, you know, inhabited by Satan and all this bullshit. But I don't know. People maybe don't know that it's actually based on an actual story that happened before the haunting. That's right. I was a huge fan of the book. Me and Sister Rita Rose. What I loved about the book is the fact or this story, whether or not it's true, is it starts out as oh, they find out this horrible thing happened in their house. But then they find out that there's something else going on. So they but that could completely be for like the book and movie. Who knows if that part is real. I can tell you sweet. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. All right. So the family, the DeFeo family, they consist of Ronald DeFeo, seniorly, 44 and his wife, Louise, 42. Ronald is a car salesman at the family dealership. Super fucking successful mob ties. Maybe, probably, pretty much definitely. I mean, don't all Italians have mob ties. Oh, my God, she just defended a quarter of our listeners. How dare you? So the random fucking car dealership is doing so well in Brooklyn that that the DeFeo family is able to move from their apartment in Brooklyn to a three story colonial in the charming town of Amityville on Long Island about an hour outside of the city. Do the whole thing on that voice. OK, I was trying to be a real estate agent. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, that's why you put that neckerchief on and bake some cookies. Yeah. All right. They chose this home. And as you saw on the cover of the Amityville book, it's a piece of Americana, two stories plus an addict. It's huge and sprawling. There's a boat house right on the Amityville River. And out front, they put a sign post that says high hopes. Oh, like naming the house. So it's this gorgeous, huge colonial house. So has eyes. It has it looks like it has eyes because it has these two windows up in the attic. They look like eyes. Yeah. So the oldest of the DeFeo children is Ronald Butch, DeFeo, Junior. He's born on September 26, 1951. Ronald, senior, the dad is a domineering man. He would fucking pick fights with his wife and children. He was physically abusive. And the target of a lot of this abuse was Ronald Junior. I'm calling him Butch partly because he was the eldest. So there's a lot of expectations on him. And it said that he would beat the shit out of him. He'd throw him against a wall and hit his head. So there's the head injury aspect that we all know and love. So as Butch gets older, he starts fighting back. And he's also known as a bully at school. He's just like angry, mean kid. Bullies get bullied. Bullies are bullies because they've been bullied. Exactly. So the parents, they try to take him to Butch to a psychiatrist. He fucking refuses to go. And so instead, they're like, let's just appease and placate him. And they start buying him anything he wanted and giving him money. Like if that's their solution. I bet it worked, right? I mean, you know what? The only way we would know if someone would do it to us, that's where we should try it. Is all I'm saying. What a bizarre plan. I mean, like, because I understand that they were rich, but that I feel like never in the history of man has that worked. Clearly, it's never worked up. But I understand, especially back in the 70s, it's like, well, here's what we'll do. If he's never unhappy, he's never going to get mad. Right. You know, right. And so they start buying him a bunch of shit, including a $14,000 speedboat when he was 15, $14,000 today would buy you a nice car. Back then, can you imagine this? OK, so these people, something happened and they're swimming in money. Why would the the son, the son's owner, a car dealership in Brooklyn have that much fucking money? I mean, quality salesman. Just he's really friendly and he's got a couple pinkie rings, not just one like normal car salesman, but a couple. Well, let's say the thing, too, is he looks like Tony Soprano. Yeah, he's got that big, bulky, you know, intimidating presence. He's kind of, you know, he speaks like a Long Islander, which I will refuse to do. And the parkway is over by my pocketbook. So that is a parkway by his pocketbook. It's those are the two words that remind me of Long Island. Because my friend Vicki, I used to work with my friend Vicki, who is from Long Island, and those are the first like two things I heard her say on like one of the first days that we were together. I was like, where are you from? There's no such thing as a parkway out here. Yeah, and pocketbooks, wallets. Stop it. Calm down. She also used to say food shopping. I'm going to go food shopping where I'm like, that's just shopping. You know, I don't care. You have to specify. Yeah. No, we get it. It doesn't matter. I had I just got my food shopping done. How about I just went shopping for food? How about you don't tell me about your fucking errands? Yes, just how about we all do it? Listen, I love you. Italians, Vicki and Long Islanders. Vicki aren't apologies in advance. But but but. OK, of course, not surprisingly, it only made things worse. And by 17, butch had become an LSD and heroin user. Oh, which is like heroin in the 70s. Crazy, right? That's when it was really organic. It's just a gorgeous golden brown. It was like a pure trip. It was more of it was what the Native Americans did around that area. It's like a piece of pipe with heroin injected into your arm. I do feel like though people were so naive about drugs in the 70s, like my friend, Jerry, had a story about doing, I think they call it windowpane, which is that intense acid from the 70s. No, she said they were tripping for days. No, every day they saw the whole world in a different color. So the first day was red, the second day was purple. And I was kind of cool, but I don't want that. It's it makes me sick to my stomach. No, I was thinking that too. It's just like won't ever end. And that was just like because they walked home from school and a guy was like, hey, do you want to buy this acid? Oh, he loved it. He loved making them trip that hard. Oh, fuck that. Crazy. OK. But but but but but I crayons as a joke once when I was on LSD. Let's not talk about it. My friend and I were like, let's cheer these crayons up and see what happens when we spit them out. That would be really pretty. Oh my god, cut this immediately. Was it pretty? It was gorgeous. I wore a vinyl dress to my own Christmas party and I was answering the door and people were like, are you OK? And then I realized it was because my I was so cold, my lips were blue. But I was like, this outfit is amazing. I look like I'm from space. Hosting a party on acid. Not a good idea. Never ever. Don't do drugs. OK. Don't do drugs, everybody. Expelled from school as well. So at so at 18, he's a special controller like, you know what? You know, to fix him, let's give him a job at the family car dealership. Yes, let's do that. There it is. Let's not give him a lot of responsibilities. And let's give him a large salary. Boom. So you're reading me the Donald Trump story. What's happening? Oh, political. You better be careful. I liked them till they got political. Like fucking mom. OK. So he is the boss's son asshole that's coming in on a full salary, but does not have to do anything. Boss's son, the and then the boss's boss's grandson. Oh, and he's just like, pay me, mother fuckers. How about you pay me? And he looks like he looks and he's probably the original Brooklyn hipster. He looks like this. Brooklyn hipster. Sideburns. What more do you need? Sideburns, beard, like 70s garb, but it's because it's in the 70s. Right. You know what I mean? It's not just like fucking bed bug used to pal fits from a thrift store. Right. It's the real deal. It is real. So OK. But he's he uses the money, the salary he makes to buy guns, alcohol and drugs, and continues his shitty behavior, which included runs with the law, blah, blah, blah. OK, one string of fight between his. So his mom and dad were fighting, meaning the dad was like fucking bullying the mom. Butch points a 12 gauge shotgun at his father and pulls the trigger. The gun malfunctioned and didn't fucking shoot. Oh, my God. So this guy's out of his mind. So in the weeks before the murder, this thing happened where but this is 1974, butch is given the job of depositing more than 20 grand in from the car dealership to the bank. They're like, go to the bank, deposit this. Use your boat. Use your boat, which is like, why are you giving this kid that money? And not surprisingly, he reports that he had been robbed at gunpoint while he was waiting at a red light, but he had actually planned the mock robbery. And at first, the dad seemed to believe it. But when the police showed up to question him, which is like, stick with your story, bro, he fucking loses his shit and is super pissed off and refuses to cooperate. And then so his dad realizes something isn't right and he thinks his son is up, was up to it and butch threatens to kill him. So to kill the dad again. Yeah. Now, a week later, cut to the early morning hours of November 13th, 1974. The family is sleeping and butch goes around with a shotgun. So the first shot, he goes into his parents' room. They're sleeping on their stomachs. The first shot hits Ronald Sr. in the back, tearing through his kidney and exiting through his chest. He fired another round into his back and it pierces his father's spine and lodged in his neck. He's dead. Then he shoots his mother twice as well. It shatters her rib cage, collapses her right lung. And physical evidence shows that Louise's mother was awake when she was shot. Like she went to turn around to see what was going on. They're both on their stomachs and they're found. Then butch goes into his sweet baby brother's rooms, Marcus 12 and John Matthew, who's nine and shoots them both while they're faced down in their beds. And then he ends by shooting his sister's point blank versus Allison, who's 13 and he shoots her in the face and then as young and she's killed instantly. And then he turns on his sister, Don, who's 18 and shoots her in the head blowing off the left side of her face. So fucking brutal with a shotgun. So just after 3 a.m. in a span of less than 15 minutes, Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr. had brutally slain every member of his family. They were all found lying on their stomachs in bed. Butch showers, trims his beard, gets dressed in jeans and work boots, and then he collects his bloody clothing and the rifle wraps him up in a pillowcase. And on his way to work, he disposes of the pillowcase and everything in it by tossing them into a strained a straw warm drain. I spelt that wrong. Tossing them into a storm drain. And that's where the clown from it was waiting. That's the scariest thing I've ever heard in my life. Why did you say that? Well, that's what I think of when I think of storm drains. Totally. That or that or J.F.K. being killed because they arrested someone in a storm drain. After it happened. No. Yeah, we'll get you know what? Maybe I'll do it one day. Shit. I'd never heard that. Yeah. Um, every time I walk George, my dog, she if we walk, there's a storm drain that we always walk by and she always has to go and stick her head down in it. No. And every time I'm like, if that fucking clown from it is in there, I am going to lose it. She's going to get her head chomped off. By what? A clown. She loves it in there. So many smells. So many raccoons. OK. Then tosses it in a storm drain, then goes to work at the car dealership at six a.m. Oh, all by himself? Yeah. Yeah. Goes to work at the family car dealership. Family car dealership. And I think they were like, what are you doing here at six a.m. It's weird. Anyway, you know me, butch. How much I love working and getting along with people. Want to get an early start. Come on, I got my boots on. With my jeans. My beard is trimmed. So throughout the morning, he keeps saying like, I don't know why my dad. My dad's not here yet, so he keeps calling home. He leaves work around noon and he spends the day with his friends. And to secure an alibi, he tells them that that he couldn't seem to reach anyone at home to let them know that he's like trying. And hey, look, no one's no one's answering. Yeah. He ends up at a bar real close in Amityville, real close to his house. And then is like, hey, guys, I'm going to go check on my family. It's so weird that I haven't heard from them. And then at six thirty that night, he burst back into the bar and yells, you got to help me. I think my mother and father are shot. So butch and a small group of people from the bar went to the home and they found the whole family dead in their beds. When the detectives questioned butch about who could be a suspect in the murders, he told them that he believed that a mafia hitman named Louis Fellini may have been responsible and that his whole family was like in with the mob and that they had wronged the Fellini family in some way and they were pissed off at him. So he then gives them the alibi if I've been gone all day. And when I left the house this morning, my whole family was I think they were still alive. So they the police take him into protective custody while they search for the suspect. But when they searched the house, they found an empty box for a recently purchased thirty five caliber Marlin gun for you, gun people in Butch's room. And when the timeline came together, it's it placed Butch at home at the time of the homicides, not after he left. So when they questioned him, he begins to change the story. He says that Fellini had appeared at the house early that morning, put a revolver to his head and dragged him from room to room as they murdered his family, him and an accomplice murdered his family, making Butch watch. Then eventually, under questioning, he broke down and confessed to killing his family saying, once I started, I just couldn't stop. It went so fast. On trial, his defense lawyer, William Weber, tried to prove that he was insane, saying that he heard demonic voices that told him to kill his family. But the psychiatrist for the prosecution proved that he suffered from anti-social personality disorder, which doesn't mean you're crazy. The illness made him aware of his actions, but motivated by a self-centered attitude. And even at one point during the trial, he threatened to kill both his own lawyer and the judge. They put him on they put him on the stand and the student is just like fucking crazy as shit. Yeah. He it seems like that's his solution to a lot of problems is I'll kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Which really, you know, as we're learning is not is a non solution. Yeah. It's this thing of like people pretending to be crazy to get the verdict of insane. And it's like, no, you're just proving what a piece of shit you are. And you're also understanding that you need to plot this out. So it makes you look sane because you understand reasoning and plotting. Yes, there's not the insanity part, isn't there? It's but you are clearly either a sociopath or just the most rotten, spoiled child of all time. Like is that where spoiling children can get you? Yeah, because that should be a PSA. All those kids that are fucking screaming out loud in restaurants. It's like, get ahold of it now. Yeah. Or you're going to go the route of the Mr. Butch DeFeo. Amen. Or at least something close and it's or you're just annoying everyone else around you and like I'm trying to eat in peace. Yeah. Just no screaming. How about the rule of no screaming? No screaming. And if your child is screaming, take them outside. Or how about you glare at your child? No one wants you to hit them. No. But how about a good icy? My father used to stop us in our tracks with the look on his face. Oh my God. Like he's gone too far. Well, also he was very large and intimidating. So I'm sure he only had to look at us. We'll be like, and you just like sit exactly where you are. Not going well. Stop right now. Yeah. I love it. So on November 21st 1975, the jury finds Butch guilty on six counts of secondary murder he sentenced to six consecutive life sentences. But all these questions and this is like one of the reasons why this murder is still big to this day and people still debate it when it's clear that he just this fucking crazy dude on acid and heroin who was a piece of shit, narcissistic asshole just killed his entire family. There are things that are weird that make people question what really happened and think that it didn't happen that way. So one of them, which I totally understand and want to know the answers to is how did he shoot six people in four different rooms without any of them waking up or trying to escape? And they're all they're all on their stomachs when they're shot. So no one turned over to be like, what the fuck was that? Like they were drugged. Well, that's what I thought, too. OK, no drugs in any other systems. Really? Period. Oh, yeah. And no neighbors heard the rifle blasts at all. And this is a fucking rifle. Yeah. The defense experts conducted an experiment on the Marlin rifle. And I found that it's report report report report report report. It's spelled report, guys. It's just a report. It's noise was so loud that it could be heard almost a mile away. It's a rifle. Yeah. So how did none of the neighbors hear it? And you can see photos. They weren't that far away. The neighbors, they were like, literally next door. I mean, he must have done. I mean, like, then did he put rum in something? I mean, like he must have affected them in some way. Right. But how did the neighbors not hear it either? Oh, oh, like silencer. No, nothing. No. There's no silencer. There's no drugs in the system. Alcohol, I doubt it either. Well, but I mean, could there be a silencer that they didn't find? I don't know. Yes. I'm putting it out. I'm going to say yes. I'm putting it out there. Even though I don't know. Rifle silencer. It's probably Satan. Could be Satan. Yeah. It is weird. Everybody's sleeping on their stomachs. Yeah. That's why I don't one person sleeping on their side. Right. And that's what you're doing. Or did he, you know, there's this obvious answer to me is that he went from room to room and was like, stay down. There's someone in the house and like warned them that like, don't move. I'm going to protect you. Maybe. But then why wouldn't the dad get up? And then why would the neighbors here? The shot first. He went and killed the dad and the mom went into the kids room. I was like, you guys stay in here. Something's something's happening. Oh, that's fucked. OK. Stay on your stomach. Why'd stay on your stomach? Stay on your stomach because I'm weird. You know what else? He could have walked in the room and they were sitting up and he said, lay down on your stomach and then shot them because he didn't want to see their faces when he killed them. True. But he shot one of his sisters in the face. Maybe he was particularly hateful of that. Maybe. Maybe. Which is it is a thing that they fought a lot to Don, the older sister who was 18. Well, but then there's also the theory. Oh, sorry. Are you doing more theories? Which one are you going to do? The theory that Don was his co-conspirator and she's shot people. Let's go to that one. OK. Let's go to the tapes. So years. It wasn't until years later, though, that Ronnie changed his story again while he was in prison and said that his sister, Don, was involved in the murders. Now, listen, Ronnie makes up so many stories that you just. They're a bullshit. Yeah. They're all bullshit, but here they are. That she had actually planned the murders with him to kill their parents after they had a huge fight with them, but they had no plans to kill the siblings. And then so she went to kill the parents. And when he found out, Ronnie found out that Don had also killed the kids. She was so pissed off. He was so pissed off. She had wanted to eliminate them as witnesses that he wrestled the gun from her and shot her in the head himself. So the only person he was guilty of killing was this murderer, his sister. And I mean, that sounds like absolute bullshit. Abs a fucking Lutli. OK. Yeah. I mean, it's just it sucks that we can't get any information about what their home life was really like from anyone but DeFeo and secondhand, you know, boyfriends and friends saying what it was like. But from their accounts, it wasn't good. Yeah. So who knows? He and then it was reported during the original police investigation that traces of gunpowder were found on Don's nightgown indicating that she may have fired a weapon. But I guess it's also proven that if someone shoots you at close range, you can get that as well. Yeah. Then he claims that his sister, Don, shot his father, then says a distraught, their mother distraught over that shot Don and her three youngest kids so that the mother that Don killed the dad. The mother killed Don, Don and the other three youngest children, then shot herself. And then when when Butch found out he flies into a rage and fired one bullet at his wounded mother who had just shot himself. So the only person he shot was the like it's just. But all that happens way later, he said he makes these stories up later. No, no, I get it. I'm saying like the reason that doesn't fly is because of the laying down on the stomachs thing. Yeah. Like all you can't have that kind of chaos and then everyone end up in the same position. I mean, it's just doesn't seem such a far fetched theory. It's stupid. Like to believe it is idiotic, especially with only the fucking testimony of a fucking crazy person who's trying to get himself away from any responsibility of what happened. Yeah, it's almost sounds like somebody he like was sitting in jail bored. And he's maybe they'll listen to me if I just make up a new story. Totally, totally. So in 1975, let's get to the fucking haunting shit real quick. Also total bullshit in 1975. But now we're in a fight. Karen, the Catholic. This is my favorite story. You can't say it's bullshit. I'm sorry. It's my favorite. I know. I want to believe it so much too. But the more I'm reading them, I'm like, I know. And the movie when I was a kid, scared the shit out of me. I also looked up when that was made and I was like, nope, too young to have watched this. What, like 82? Something crazy like that. I don't know. Steven, look it up because that would mean I was only two. That's the Jim Rowland movie, right? Where he's the beard and he's like super nuts. A gorgeous movie. I keep going to that digital clock that it's like three, yeah, twelve or whatever time it was that it happened. Fifteen or something. Yeah. And he keeps waking up. All right. So it's based on the fact that George and Kathy Lutz, they buy about a year after this, they buy the DeFeo house for 80 grand. They knew about the murders, but they were like, it's cool. We don't believe in shit. Steven. Seventy nine. The night wasn't boring yet. Seventy nine. So I watched it in the womb. I. I think I watched it on like a Friday night. Yeah, it was on TV. Classic sort of. No, it's because I remember watching it in my aunt's living room and I wouldn't have watched it when I was nine. Yeah, it was on TV. We must have been home alone, turned it on, and then I wanted to kill myself. It was like a creature features thing. Yeah. Just like, what's this? Yeah, it terrified me. Remember the flies on the window? The flies in the window. Wasn't there a scene where like all the they were standing outside of the house when they had left it and all the lights were flicking on and off and all this crazy shit was going on inside? Yes. That scared me more than anything I ever had until I watched it. Wow. I mean, it's not that big of a deal. That was a scary cat. As a kid. It's a very big deal. Thank you. All right. OK, so they buy the house. They're like, no big deal. It's a we got a good deal on it. So George and Kathy and there and Kathy's three kids from a different marriage moved in. That doesn't matter. Then weird shit starts happening. What's happening? What? It doesn't matter. I mean, I didn't know it doesn't. I don't need to specify that she had three kids from a different marriage. You know, it was just like. It's fine. OK. Like, I don't want to shame her like she's a she's a diva or say with three kids. Like, I don't know why I did that. Like, I'm not judging her. It seems like information you're trying to convey. I don't need to. It's unnecessary. And it seems so they were born out of wedlock. No, they were born. Listen, let me tell you about her life. OK, she's she was a tramp. OK, so they have a priest come to bless the house. He said he felt an unseen hand slap him. Yes, in one of the rooms and heard a voice saying, get out, get out. They said that they had a crazy things happen like windows lock. Windows and doors would lock inexplicably and then open and close. A devilish creature was seen outside the window at night. George was seemingly, quote, possessed by an evil spirit and green slime oozed from the walls and ceiling. The family there was operations of hooded figures, clouds of flies. I think I already said that. Cold chills, personality changes, sickly odors, objects moving about on their own. And then the youngest let's child, the little girl, became friends with a devilish pig. Evil demonic pig, imaginary friend called Jody. Yeah. Jody, the pig, Jody, the pig, good old Jody, the pig. And then Kathy reports that she was often beaten and scratched by unseen hands. And that one night she was levitated off of her bed. Shit. And then George says his wife was physically transformed into an old woman with the face and hair and wrinkles of a 90 year old woman, which I'm like, that's insulting. Keep that to yourself. You know, like, I'm Vince's like, you have too much makeup on. It's like, shut up. You know what I mean? But it was demonic forces. It wasn't just like, I fear you. I fear your old age in the future. OK. And then he'd wake up at 3.15 every morning when the murders happened. So just 28 days after they moved in, they fled the house. They left all their clothes in the closet and food in the refrigerator. By the way, when they bought the house, it had all of the de Feo's furniture still in it, except for the mattresses where the kids were fucking murdered. No way. So what the fuck is wrong with you people? Like redecorate, man. Like the real estate agents, like you can buy this as is. Yes. And it's a bargain. You know that murder house in Los Feliz that's been fucking closed up forever. Yeah. Like, can you imagine buying it? Like, well, this is great vintage furniture. Just leave it. Yeah. No. Well, you'd have to really sage that thing. Yeah. You'd have to really clap those corners. You have to light some sage and then like the house on fire with it and burn it to the fucking ground. Go ahead and take that insurance check. Yeah. And buy yourself some mid century modern furniture. Then figure your shit out. Yeah. And stop. Buy a McMansion. OK, so they end up publishing the account of the hauntings in a book that was written by that they worked on with J. Anson called The Amityville Horror, True Story, which we all know and love, published as nonfiction in 1976, sold more than six million copies. Um, film version comes out. Huge box office success. The Lutz has become famous. They later admitted it was a hoax. No. Yeah. When? Concocted with the help of Butch's defense lawyer, William Weber, member him who was like, no, he's crazy. He heard demonic voices. So they said it wasn't ghosts. They had all these fucking psychics and mediums come in and was like, there's no ghosts here. It's it's demonic possession, which I believe in ghosts. Sure, fine. Let's let's have it. But demonic possession is fucking stupid. I don't know. Famous last words. So William Weber's angle was it just turned her head all the way around. And then I vomited. William Weber, remember, was trying to say that is you basically using this account who, by the way, they said that they came up with after a few bottles of wine. Oh, my God. We got that part with the Lutz's that to like to prove that the house was possessed and so is Butch. And he was not responsible. Exactly. Yeah, that's why the family was killed. So. Ronnie's still in prison. All of his appeals and requests to the parole board to date have been denied. And that's the Amityville horror and the murder of the DeFeo families. It's so family. The question of how he got those that family killed in that manner is so vexing and so fascinating. But which way that they're on their stomachs. Just that, like, yeah, how do you take a rifle and shoot six people or five people and have people not here and have the people not wake up and have, you know, I mean, like, by the weirdest part, by the fifth person in the family, they've heard now four gunshots. And they know that their older brother is fucking crazy. Like that's the thing, too, especially Don, who is 18 and grew up with him. It's like they know their brother is crazy. And the whole town was like as soon as they found out what happened, it was like, well, butch did it. Like everyone fucking knew he was crazy. Yeah. So. But in the Amityville horror book, they talk about this red room that's in the basement. Yes. And how it's filled with evil and all this stuff. And I was so fascinated by this. It's almost like they centralize where the evil was coming from. And like people tried to go in there and they would get crazy headaches and all this weird shit would happen. I was so fascinated by that. It doesn't exist. It. I'm sorry. It's Karen in your mind. Karen, it's this in your heart. It's fine. I feel like at the heart of every story like that is is people want to go like, oh, my God, the devil has been here and there's flies on the sewing room window. But at the end of the day, the truth of it is a spoiled asshole. Drug addict killed his family, which is the thing people can't face because it's not a monster. And how could someone kill children? Right. Who had nothing to do. Totally any of this. It's like. So you'd rather be like the devil. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's easier. Yeah. Oh, honey, I'm sorry. Oh, what a story. I love it. I can't believe I didn't do that. I know I can't believe I did. I didn't even cross my mind that that was the story. I don't know why I was thinking of the Omen as that story. Oh, yeah, because he's the he's this for you. That's like the mark, the book you checked out. I totally forgot. Oh, yeah. Girl. But I mean, I was even worse that you could check that book out. It was so scary. It was horrifying. Oh, my God. It was very detailed. And I mean, the none that was mad at me was the scariest part of all. So. Right. Right. OK, we are back. Georgia, are there any updates for this case? There are. It's so crazy because literally this past weekend, I've been sick and so we've been watching, you know, old TV shows and we watched in search of the Amityville horror episode. How was it? It's great. It's like, I think it's so recent to when the quote hauntings happen that he's in the house. But yes, Leonard Nimoy is in the house showing you around. It's crazy. I have to look that up. I bet that whole series is so good to be watched. Oh, my God, it's excellent. It's like comforting, you know, like the Twilight Zone is kind of. Yeah. But anyways, yes, there are updates in 2021. Butch died in prison. He was 69. He died of natural causes, as far as we can tell, but no official cause of death has ever been made public. And in 2019, yet another film inspired by these murders, the Amityville murders was released. I've never watched any of the actual movies about like based on this. Have you? Yes. I watched that one from 2019 in the theater and enjoyed it. But it's all the rehash of the James Brolin original Amityville horror. Oh, right. I see that. It was a movie theater movie or if it was a TV movie. I think it was TV because there's no way my parents would have taken me to that. But I definitely fucking saw it and couldn't sleep because of it. Yeah. Yes. So disturbing. And so all those things where people are like waking up at 12, 12 and like freaking out. Yeah. OK, let's stop it. Let's get into Karen's story about Neville Heath. At Grape Tree, you'll find fantastic deals like our bestselling Supreme Almonds now for just eight ninety nine a kilogram or three for twenty five pounds. Plus, use code PIC15 for 15 percent of a thirty five pound or more spend or code PIC20 for twenty percent of a fifty pound or more spend on selected products when you order online or shop at one of over one hundred and ninety of our stores nationwide. If you're looking for big bags and big value, Grape Tree is the place to go. Grape Tree, your health, our products. I did my usual thing where I was watching on Tuesday, I was watching true crime shows all day and then I'm like, well, I didn't do anything today. So I better pick one of these an episode of one of these things and do my murder from one of these shows that I just watched. Great. And actually, a ton of people told me this and I knew it, but I didn't realize they were saying so there's a show called Murder Maps on Netflix and it's basically all these murders that have taken place in London or I think England, generally, but mostly London. And they're most of them are really old and it's such a good show. And the guy that's the narrator host, I think his name is Nicholas Day, is so dramatic and awesome and it's just great. And so there was I'd already watched the first two seasons. So every time people be like, you've got to watch Murder Maps. I'd be like, girl, I've been there and back. Well, there was a season three and I didn't know. I think that's what people were trying to tell me. Yeah, I'm going to try to be a better listener. So that's what I was watching. And so this is this. This is the story of Neville Heath, the lady killer. So I'm going to take you. Oh, also, I just want to say it. So it's this episode of Murder Maps. There's a guy that's one of the talking heads and his name is Neil Root. And he wrote a book called Frenzy, Colin Heath, High and Christie. And it's basically about the three British serial killers that were caught after World War Two. Well, and there John Christie. I can't remember if I did him or not, but he's that guy. I don't think I did. He's really fucked up. I can't remember what the other guy is. And then the third guy is my guy for this. And it's just fascinating because there was maybe the high guy is there was somebody that during World War Two, during like the Blitz, when London was getting the fuck bombed out of him, he was killing people. Like in an alley or something like that. Yes, they would find bodies and they would assume, oh, this must be another thing from the bombing. Another victim, victim. Thank you. Trophy. It's been a long day. OK, so anyway, this is this. These were all really good stories, but I this guy was especially interesting. So I'll give you a little history as they do in murder maps to kind of set the scene. Yes, May 8th, 1946, it's victory. Victory in Europe Day is what they called it. So finally, World War Two is over. And England and London specifically have just gotten a shit beaten out of. Oh, yeah. It's pretty amazing how badly London was bombed and totally and made it. If you go look at there's there's a lot of those photos of before and after. Yeah. And it's insane. It's insane. And what I really loved and that what this show is really good at doing is they started talking about how like how it affected the culture. Because so for like, you know, over six years, basically all of the men left went off to fight war. All of the women took over their jobs. I never knew this. But in that time, of all the like when women had like hard labor jobs and they're talking about it in the setup of this and women. What's the women built the Waterloo Bridge in London? No way. And when the guy when the narrator says that in the show, it cuts to this live black and white footage of all these women sitting in basically what looks like men's work gear smoking cigarettes and like sitting on the bridge. Yeah. As like taking a lunch break from building it. And that's what happened, you know, as everybody knows, like all the men were gone. So women became truck drivers. Women worked in factories, made bombs, did all the went into the army themselves. Like it's kind of amazing. So then when the war ended and all these soldiers came back, they thought they were just going to take their jobs again and like everything would be normal. But this culture shift had changed. That was so radical where women were like, well, fuck you, we had to do it out of necessity. And now we're like, we can do it. And also, why didn't you tell us pants were so comfortable? Yeah. How dare you keep pants from us for this long? Only the horse ladies got pants. That's bullshit. So so I think that's kind of that part is very exciting, where it was like a woman's movement purely by necessity, where they were it's the only we can do it thing where it's like, not only can you do it, you're fully going to do it, and then you're going to want to keep doing it, even though men are back and they're like, now I work at the factory. And they're like, get the fuck out of here, buddy. They didn't do that. But it was a hard, you know, of course, soldiers had a hard time reclamating it always, but then especially culturally, because this was a world that they didn't live in before they left. Yeah. Women were just like, yeah, I'll take care of it. And they're traumatized. I mean, they'd seen horrible things and everyone was desensitized. Now that they had all lived through those who lived through this horrible time in life. They said that because, you know, like true crime and crime has always been huge, especially in England and in, I don't know if it's Georgia in England in like early 1800s England, it was really popular. But after World War Two, people in, you know, people who had watched their neighbors be blown up by bombs or lost their brothers and husbands and, you know, boyfriends in the war, they'd all become incredibly desensitized. So they weren't people didn't shy away or like death and murder were not taboo anymore. They were very interested in it because now it was like what's not happening to me. That makes sense. So they're finally like, oh, I can read a story where it's not me with the bullet coming at me. It's like this happens. And it's not in the fucking battlefield and all this. Exactly. It's like a huge, almost a bigger relief. Right. So that's kind of like the world they live in. One of the people. Oh, and also the this is just an interesting aside. And they had video of these guys, the true crime reporters of the time from all those major newspapers in London, they themselves became famous because the stories they reported were getting so popular. They called them the murder gang. And they were like the reporter of the crime, crime reporter from the sun, the crime reporter from the, you know, whatever all those newspapers are. It was kind of the beginning of British tabloid reporting. And the truth, these true crime guys were like big time, the true crime gang, the murder gang. Oh, that's what I meant. Yes, I could feel that. So they were kind of like local stars. One of the guys that came back. At this time was a man named Neville Heath. Now, he was not like he, although he was very good looking, he kind of looks like the actor Patrick Wilson, you know, that guy, he's like blonde kind of wavy hair, cleft chin. He was in like little children. He was in. Yeah, he was in all the conjuring movies he plays. But yeah, he's great. He this guy looks like that guy. He is a tall, beautiful, blonde man who had gone off and was in. He had joined the RAF in 1937 when he was still a teenager. But he had. He came from like a nice middle class family. Always had problems with criminal behavior. Always petty theft, doing little things here and there. When the war effort started, he was like, I want to be a pilot. And so he joined the RAF. But then he stole funds from the mess hall. And he ended up going AWOL because he didn't want to face it. And he kind of slowly developed into a con man because he was he could talk his way out of anything he got people. Like people kind of fell in love with him all the time. Blonde people with fucking chin clefs. A blonde with a chin clef. And like, I bet you he had a very deep soothing voice. Like I use one of those people that just like never didn't have a good thing to say. Watch out for those guys that watch it. He also. So he was he was doing all kinds of like he he was eventually cut from going AWOL by trying to apply for credit by fraud. So he was using all these aliases. Yeah. He sounds like James Bond kind of. Yeah, like a bad guy, James Bond. Yeah. OK. Like one of a James Bond villain. Yes. In the making. But good looking. Were there any were there any James Bond villains that were good looking? Male. I don't fucking know. That's a different podcast called James Bonding. Demographic. Yeah. He called himself Major Rupert Brooke. He called himself Lord Dudley. Of course he did. Gilly. So he was trying to apply for credit in under these false names, got caught. That's how he got arrested. He went to a bore stall, which is I don't it's a jail, but I don't know why that's different than a normal jail. I just feed you shittier food, probably. Think so. That's what it is. It sounds like they send you to Russia. It sounds like there's like hay on the ground and in your cell. Oh, that's a horse stall. You're. Wait, why don't I click this live link and tell you that a bore stall is a type of youth detention center. So he was so young, he was going to a youth detention center. We knew that. I knew that. Don't act like I didn't know that. Listen, we were testing you guys, you listeners. But here's the problem. He flourished in jail. He he. Man. He is a psychopath test. He's a full on psychopath. Flourished in jail. He flourished in jail. The governor of the jail. They're called the governor was basically like the warden of the boys jail. Kept giving him leadership duties and eventually supported his application for the Air Force in 1939. He sounds like he could have been a really successful person. Yes. He had just not been a dick. If he hadn't been a cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater. Happy Halloween, everybody. We are on theme. This is a themed episode. We are not evergreen. We are of the moment. He tried to reenlist in the Air Force when the governor supported out the application. The Air Force was like no thanks criminal. Well, you tried this already, pal, and you get that one shot. Yeah. He joined the Royal Service Corps and he was stationed in the Middle East. And over there, he did all this, his same business like he had to keep doing it. The second he got there, he pretended to be a man. Oh, no, I'm sorry. When he in the Middle East, he got court-martialed. He basically stole, got court-martialed, was sent home in disgrace. And on the boat ride home, he jumped off the boat. Like the boat docked in South Africa. He got off and bailed and escaped essentially and then started calling himself Captain Selway in South Africa. And Captain. Fun so far. I mean, yeah, he had a good time with it. He had a limp and a modicle as Captain Selway. And our guy, Neil Root, was like he was just an actor. Like he was he got super into these roles and he became the people. He's an adventurer until he kills people until. Yeah. So. Let's see, I lost my spot. Beep boop. That's when you say, be do that. It really helps. Can't steal your bit. No, it's not that computer wise gets me down to my spot. It helps. It really helps. Thanks, Steven. He joins the South African Air Force under the name Lieutenant Colonel James Armstrong. OK. Which is kind of amazing. It's so long ago that you could join like a government agency and they'd be like, we haven't caught up to you yet. We don't know. Or you could be like, here's my title. And I'm like, OK, great. There's no way to check this. Goodbye. Yeah. But it's like, what was it written on a fucking napkin? Like it doesn't make sense. And he's just like, no, this is who I am and everybody trusts me. But it's like he's a smooth talker. All you have to be is confident and people fucking believe you. If you're beautiful and the world is your oyster. Wouldn't that be nice? I mean, let's keep it positive. So. So he flew missions as Lieutenant Colonel James Armstrong. But then finally they found out that he was this criminal guy. Because he couldn't play a game. Maybe he's like, he was like into I get, you know, at the time it was like World War Two. And it was like the Air Force pilots were the shit. They were they were the hot hoties. So he just wanted a slice of that. Amen. He got deported back to England. He arrived in January of 1946. OK. He tried to go to the London School of Navigation because his ideas all be a commercial pilot. And he actually went, studied there, worked really hard, tried. And then near the end, they found out about all of his court marshals and all his bullshit from the Army and basically being a criminal. And they told him you will never be a commercial pilot. And he they kicked him out. So his family thinks like he's telling the story of like, oh, I was a pilot in the army. And now I'm going to be a commercial pilot and everybody don't worry about it. So now he can't tell them that he none of that's going to work out because he can't keep his hands out of the till. So he lies to them. And then I think that's part of like the pressure starts mounting. And what he ends up doing is drinking and going to dance halls all the time. Sounds like a blast. Right. And he and he's of course a huge womanizer because he's he's beautiful. Or good looking, let's say. He's he's no Paul Onions. Can I just say really quickly? Vince told me a story the other day when we were on the plane on the way home from Australia and he saw that like Riz Ahmed, there was like a TV show with Riz Ahmed on the plane and he walked by and said Riz Ahmed's on on TV. And you heard him say Riz Ahmed's in C1. Yes, that's right. Shit. Why are you guys telling me about that the minute we got out the plane? I had no memory of that until you just said it right now. Because he was walking by and just said it in that Vince way like fast and kind of like, did it like that? Yeah. And but the excitement he said it like the look on his face was like Riz Ahmed's here. Yeah. And then I was like in my pod, all half asleep and weird. And I was just like, wait, what? It's like doesn't matter. It's not. I mean, I'm not sure there are some people that would go and squat by their seat and be like sat on his lap. I would have had a mean look on my face in case he saw me and then looking at the ground. You know what kind of shitty friend I am. But like the best kind of friend is I would have been like, let's walk by him. And then I would push you into him. Yeah. You know, so it looks like you bumped into him. You're the perfect wingman. I am such the wingman because you're going to work against all of my serious problems, which is the best way to flirt is to act like you're angry and walk away, which has not panned out. Just go act like a human and speak to the person. No. So moving on. So Riz Ahmed. Riz Ahmed is back in England. No. So Neville Heath is he's under pressure. He's a failed he's a failed pilot. He's not he's acting and can, you know, hold himself to be this person. But he actually doesn't have any of the credit. But he's so he's meeting a bunch of women. He takes a room at the Pembridge Court Hotel in Notting Hill Gate, which is the street, the main street in Notting Hill. That one I did look up. OK. Notting Hill, the film that makes me crazy because why does he like her? Why? Why? Why anything? That's true, too. OK, so he actually checks into this hotel using his real name. He just added the fake title Lieutenant Colonel. But his real name is on the books. Does those even go together? I don't know. I certainly don't know. Can you be a Lieutenant and a Colonel? I mean, I would believe him because he did one of the things he got in trouble for when he was in the army was misusing uniforms and medals, which is like that stolen valor thing. Your story straight. I mean, he's like it's like go go be an actor in the theater. Yes, that's what you want to do. All the ladies. You can all the single ladies. All the single ladies. OK, so when he is he's he has taken his hotel room, he's out at a bar one night, and he meets a woman named Yvonne Simmons. He takes her out to dinner. He starts to romance her and he's trying to get her to come back to the hotel room with her with him and she won't go. And so he proposes to her. And so she's like, OK, I will. No. So she got Yvonne. She buys it. He sell. I mean, he sells it in a way that she can buy it. He she goes and fucks him. And the next day she goes back home to Bainbridge, Bainbridge, where she lives. Uh-huh. I think either with her parents or her parents also live there too. And now she thinks, oh, I'm I'm engaged. And like I'm that's my fiance. This is an episode of Down to Naby. I mean, it really isn't the sad. A sad, dark down Naby would not be a bad idea. Yeah. What's it called? Downer to Naby. I was going to say something else and that's better. Downer to Naby. Thank you so much. It's just got everyone's got a horse in the Middle Ages. Bless you. Bless you. Don't you dare to that out, Sue, and don't fucking take a note. Oh, leave it. Listen, we are real people. Oh, my God. Thoughts and feelings and sneezes. OK, OK, she goes back to Bainbridge. Four nights later, Neville meets a woman named Marjorie Gardner. Now, she's an artist. She's 32 years old. She was married to a terrible alcoholic who she separated from. She's from a middle class family, but she has led a what they call a bohemian lifestyle. And her. Yes, exactly. Right. She wears pants. Exactly. She grew her hair long and put a scarf in it. Fuck her. She also, as they quote, say in murder maps, they're like she enjoyed the freedoms. The new freedoms offered to women by the war. So basically, pants, sex, pants, sex and cigarettes. And if you want, build a bridge. Love can build a bridge. So she meets Neville at a bar. Same deal. He takes her out to dinner. Then they go to the Panama Club, which is some private club he belongs to. Or so he says. They leave the Panama Club at 12 20 and they go back to room four at the Pampbridge Court Hotel. The following day, the assistant manager get enters the room because the maid can't get in. And so he comes up, opens the door and marjorie gardeners body is naked on the bed, covered to the knack with sheets. Her ankles are still bound. Her there's marks on her wrist to show that they were bound, but that the restraints had been cut. She had been gagged. There were 17 lacerations on her body caused by a whip. Oh, my God. She'd been punched in the face at least twice. Oh, my God. Nipples savagely bit. No, no, no, no, no, no. I know that's a bad one. She and also to me, the worst one where she had been raped and then in an instrument had been inserted inside her vagina. So I think they said it was like a bottle opener. It's horrible looking. Basically, a incredibly brutal and savage attack on this woman. Is that a crime scene photo of it? Not that I looked. OK, not that I saw. OK. But there was a very upsetting reenactment because the woman looks a lot like the picture. They show the picture of of Marjorie and then this actress, they got to play her, looks almost exactly like her. So it's very real. It's so crazy that supposedly that was his first murder. Supposedly. But it's not. It's not. It can't be like we all know that that's not your first murder. It's that. Yeah, there's a gap of time where he goes from I mean, in Bezzar, I steal. Basically, no rules apply to me. That early kind of psychopath shit of I want to get whatever I want, no matter what. And I don't care. But then it goes from there. And then there's all that time where who knows what he did in South Africa. He's in the Middle East. Yeah. You know, yeah. He's he's he's breaking. Clearly, he got, you know, would you know, discharged from the army for for reasons that they're saying that they're these crimes, but who knows what the fuck. They could be like, we don't want to we don't want to advertise. What else? Or they just don't know. They just caught him for one thing. But he could be guilty of anything. Fuck, man. That's brutal. So. The thing is and ultimately they find she was suffocated with a pillow. That's how she actually died. Neville, he does nowhere to be found, obviously. Since he signed in under his own name, though, now he's on the run. And what he means he didn't it wasn't premeditated. No, you know what I mean? That's a very good point. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you, especially since he's so tricky and uses so many aliens everywhere in his life and goes so far as to pretend to have a limp and wear a monocle, that why would he then here do fuck up? Something pissed him off and he snapped. He snapped. He snapped. Maybe. Who knows? Well, what he does do is takes the train to Bainbridge and goes to meet his brand new fiance, Yvonne's parents. Yvonne. So Yvonne, he's like, guess what? I'm coming to visit like everything I said was real. I wasn't just super drunk. Yeah. He goes to the parents' golf club and has dinner with the family. Then they leave and they go out to another club for drinks. And he realizes he has to give her his explanation of what happened in that room because she was in the room with him and that he knows the story is going to come out that Marjorie Gardner was murdered. OK. So he tells Yvonne that he met a man who asked if he could borrow his Neville's hotel room key so he could go fuck a lady. And Neville was like, sure, no problem, buddy. Take my key and I'll just go walk around the streets whistling with my hands in my pockets all night and then that basically that the murder was some other guy killing Marjorie and he was just the unlucky fellow that gave his key to somebody. What are the chances? I mean, the answer and say. The next day, the newspapers are filled with his picture and pleased to turn himself in. And so the family sees it. All these people see it. He writes the police a letter explaining to Marjorie, I mean, explaining that he'd let Marjorie the room key. He went out for the night and then when he came back, he found her dead body. So he changes the story slightly to the police, which we all know is a red flag city. You read the city and also apparently he wrote these letters all the time. The Neil Ruege talks about how Neville Heath would write letters all the time after he did stuff, kind of explaining what his deal was. And oftentimes it would lead people to go. That's OK, I understand now and let him off the hook. That's how he got out of things. And and one of the theories is he had been doing these things for so long and getting away with it that he kind of thought he was untouchable and he didn't ever believe. He just didn't. He thought everyone would always believe him because they always did. Because people want to believe pretty people. They don't believe pretty people over fucking not pretty people. Absolutely. You get away with shit and people fucking get charmed by you. It's charm. It's that thing of when a certain type of person looks at you and presents a thing. Yeah. Like there are people who just know the power of their own face or their own voice or their own. Well, they don't know. That's just what they're used to in life. Right. They think everyone gets treated like that and everyone can do this thing. Right. It's a it's quite a combination of like when you have a psychopath that's good looking, you know, all doors are open. Yeah, fucked. Yeah, fucked. Hello, the devil. So it's my new musical. So. OK. He in this letter to the police tells them he's he found the whip that she was injured with and he was going to bring it with him when he came to talk to them and then just and that's it. So they're like, OK, but they he's now operating under false names again. So he's still he isn't going back to the police. He's so he checks in on June 23rd. He checks into the Tollard Royal Hotel in Bournemouth under the name, the fake name, Group Captain Rupert Brooke. No. Yeah. It always he always has to have two military names before the fake name. OK, so and this is like about to the murders happen. He's on the loose for two weeks, essentially. And he's walking around Bournemouth and he meets a woman named Doreen Marshall. She and her friend are also walking around. I think Bournemouth from what I remember, but this could be wrong. But I think it's a seaside town. That's from what I remember from Murder Man. Let's fucking go with it. Stephen's going to tell me whether or not I think I'm right, though. But I think it's like it's like a little he got out of town, basically. We went to the vacation spot. I'm right. OK, thank God, because I can't have British people angry at me. I can't because they're just stern. They won't yell at you. No, they'll just be disappointed and friendly, which I can't take. I need Irish yelling or nothing. OK, so he goes to Bournemouth to get out of town. He he's walking around, but he is a voracious. He's they call him eventually. I end up calling him the lady killer because he's just this womanizer. Then of course, is literally a lady killer. He meets this girl, Dorian Marshall, and he won't leave her alone. He's like on her all day long. And at first, she's into it, of course, because it's the good looking army captain or whatever he group captain. And then she fucking senses he's a creep. Yes. Fucking gut feeling tingling. Yes. And also because he can't. I think people like that they can only keep that certain level of charm going for so long. Yeah. So once he's it's like if you're. Especially if you're not going with the direction he's trying to take you. Yeah. Then he started getting real pushy and real insistent. And in the hotel room, I mean, in the hotel lobby, he was getting really pushy with her, Dorian. Yeah. And the night manager of the hotel actually saw it happen and saw her going into a panic about it. And that night manager was the last person to see her alive. So he saw some kind of weird exchange between the two of them. Noticed it. Noticed how weird enough to notice. Yeah. How unhappy she was and made a note of it. So the next day. That the man, the manager of the Tolerant receives a call from the Norfolk Hotel, which is where Dorian was staying, like on a different side of town. And they called because she was last seen at that hotel getting into a cab to come to their hotel and she never arrived and never came back. And I guess the friend was like, that's what I'm assuming. The friend was like, you have to like, we have to figure out where my friend went. Yeah. And the staff at the Tolerant were becoming very suspicious of group captain Rupert Brooke because of all these things they were seeing him, you know, these vibes they were getting from him and the behavior. So finally, the police, meanwhile, putting all these things together, put together that Neville Heath and Rupert Brooke are the same person. And so he had he he said he was from some some like Air Force base in a place. It's a city in London. No, no, no, it's like Leichester. OK. But I think it's Leicester. One of you ever cared? I know, but suddenly I'm holding my hair about it. I know you are really troubled. It's because it's probably like Leichester. Leichester. Leichester. Yeah, that's probably what it is. That's probably what it is. Yeah. Oh, they're so mad. I can I can hear the tea spilling across the ocean. The police. It's the thing I said of coming back into the police, realized Neville Heath and Rupert Brooks are the same person. And Rupert Brooks are. And so they also find in his room a train ticket for during Marshall, the whip with hair on it that was then traced to what's up with the whip, Marjorie Gardner. I know, that's that's like a really specific weird thing. Yes. But you had to have it on you. You know what I mean? So like you didn't just grab something and hit the person with it. You like had your whip. Yes. You know, I'm like, this is what you're into. Right. Which also then goes like, did he snap or was this a build? What did he yeah. Or the thing of like he brought it out and she wasn't into it. And so he attacked her. It's like, no, he got off on. Yeah. Well, she's and Marjorie was tied up. So like, was it fun times tied up and a look? I have a whip or was it like and then it all goes bad? Sure. OK, honey. So. A waitress walking her dog sees a strange swarm of flies down near the beach. So then later on, when she sees the story of Marjorie Gardner's death in the paper, she grabs her dad and goes back down to that part of the beach to check out what the swarm of flies are and their Doreen Marshall's body is found nude arms tied behind her back stab to death. That chick was a vintage murdering. Now she was the a ridge, a ridge murdering. Because she had to make that connection where she was like, I'm sure there was a weird smell to if there was a swarm of flies. But she's like, it's a bird or whatever. Fuck that's right. But she was like, let's dad, let's make sure. And he's like and she's smart enough to not go, I'm going to go make sure by myself. Yeah, she's like. Hey dad, father power. So. What he what Neville Heath had done when he was out of his hotel room. He went back by climbing up the outside of the hotel up of what they say called a builder's ladder on the side of the hotel. And he basically snuck into his own hotel room, probably because he was covered in blood and had shit all over him and knife and all that stuff, because he had he had murdered Doreen. But he then the next morning told the story in like the lobby with other hotel residents as if it was I pulled this prank on like the doorman. So he tried to make it. He was basically trying to establish this motive of I was doing this fun, funny, crazy thing with the doorman. That's what I was doing last night. And that's what you're going to remember. Do it. So when the police questioned him, he claims that he blacked out. He has no memory of what happened during that night. He says that he came to on the beach looking at his bloody hands, that he washes his hands in the sea and then walked back to the hotel. But what it turned out happened was he took her down to the beach, attacked her, murdered her there. And before he murdered her, he took off all his clothes so that when he was because he knew he would be covered in blood. So when he was done stabbing her to death, he went in, washed himself in the sea and then came back out and put his clothes on. That's how you know he knew what he was doing. Exactly right. Yeah. Not a snap. No, in this situation anyway. And pre pre planned when you're you're like, I want to murder somebody, but I don't want my clothes to get dirty. Yeah. Fuck you, dude. Yeah. OK. Absolutely. Fuck you, dude. On September. Oh, then he disposed of the knife, the ultimate proof that you're not insane. Sure. September 24th, 1946. The murder trial begins. His lawyers tried to claim insanity. And they they did it by revealing his previous crimes and then saying this is a progressive mania that then built two murder. And then the Neil Root guy explains that you have to know what you're doing is wrong to cover it up, and that's the proof that it's not. You can't do if you if they can prove you tried to cover it up. Yeah. And that proves you're not insane. I love that rule. Yeah. Because it applies to so few actual murders. Yes. Yeah. And it's so clear. It's like it makes so much sense. So he was found guilty and he eventually was hanged for the murders. Holy shit. But up until the end, and this is kind of an amazing, like, final moment for that show that I loved, apparently the thing they used to do before they hung you was they gave you a shot of whiskey. Really? Like a glass, you know, it's like they're going to give you dental surgery or they're going to hang you. You're right. So you kind of got like one quick thing before you went. And he said to the hangman, considering the circumstances, you might want to make it a double. Oh, my God. Like to the end was this insane phony lunatic. Because that's the coolest line I've ever heard. I mean, it isn't bad. I'll say that is clearly a charmer. Yeah. The lady killer, Neville Heath. I don't know. We don't do that. We only do that live. I forgot. Oh, my God. Oh, I think I really buttoned it and I felt like you felt like you had to do. I was like, wow, it's tough. You say the title at the beginning and the end. Yeah. Oh, but I am going to tonight in my car by Neil Roots book frenzy because this story and then those other three, like the way all that information was coming out, we were like, this is why people. It's like when that that explanation of people during World War Two becoming desensitized to fear and horror and death and then when the war is over, they still want to know the bad shit because they've already known the bad distraction, distraction from your own woes. Yes. And they were saying like for the soldiers, it's a celebration that it's not them. I think that's what it is for us today. You know, like we know these things can happen and all this horrible shit can happen and hearing about it. Makes it legitimizes it and makes it true. And we're aware of it and we're not trying to fucking shelter ourselves from shit because man, life's a bitch. Life's a bitch. And we're so lucky. We're so lucky. And there is there's another book that I'm reading that's about murder in like the early 1800s in England. That's when it like they would put it out on the broadsheets. And it was really popular. There would be like a picture. You know, here he. Yeah. And they glue it up to a wall or whatever. Sure. And it's a I'll get the title of the book for next time. But in that, the author was saying that it was it's like sitting inside a house when there's a rain, a thunderstorm outside where you enjoy the raindrops on the window pane. That's exactly it. Because you're inside in the warmth with protection. That's exactly it. Or like when you're in an earthquake and you know it's not going to be that bad and you're just like, this is so fucking cool and fascinating. Yeah. Because you because there's boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's fucking cool. OK, we're back. Karen, any updates on this epic World War Two story? No updates for that story specifically, but we did get this email from a listener in 2017 and it's written a very British person wrote this email. So please bear with me as I do this incorrectly. It just starts family dinners. You never know what exciting little tidbits will be disclosed during Toad in the Hole. And then in parentheses, it says we probably weren't actually eating that. But doesn't it sound so deliciously British of us? Just jump right in. Yeah, it says there I was listening to stories about my cousin's new boyfriend, Neville, when my aunt pipes up with isn't it funny that his name is Neville? I say why because of Neville Longbottom and Harry Potter? I mean, how many other Neville's do you know? And then she says, no, because of your granddad's cousin, Neville Heath, the serial killer. And then it says, wait, excuse me, picture shock followed by thoughts that this might be the best dinner ever. And then it just says SSD GM by Teran. Teran, I love like no info, no details, just letting us know that it's like that's what we want. Teran recaptured the moment where she heard the craziest piece of news of like you're potentially related to this horror show that you just heard about. And this is the only place this podcast where you can say that and people will go, no way. Instead of what? I understand what you mean. All right, let's head back in for Good Things of the Week. One happy thing. Should we end on that? Oh, yeah. Botox. No kidding. Can you pause? No, don't pause. Don't edit that out, but that's not my thing. I mean, it really is just. Oh, I'll say one. OK. We did the LA Pod Fest last weekend. It was super fun. We did a great show with KCRW where we got to be guest DJs. So fun. We did our own live show. I did the stand up show. It was like a hangout at the Biltmore. And we got to meet all these listeners that came specifically to the Pod Fest. And people drove in from far away, people from Arizona. Remember the guy last year that we met at LA Pod Fest? His name was Joe, and he gave us those LA Corners Office mugs. Yes, yes, I still have mine. Well, he came back again and gave us a travel mug and an apron also from the Corners Office, and I went, sorry, remind me, do you work at the Corners Office? He goes, no, I just love that they have a gift shop. And there was just like we met so many cool people and actually got to like hang for a second and talk to people. It was really nice. It felt very much like a like we're all just chilling. Yes, situation. Right. Very fun. And those and I will say for that stand up show, which I don't love doing anymore just because I don't work on it and whatever, but that was fun because it's an audience of people who really love and care about comedy for the most part for that podcast anyway. So it was like they were with you the entire time. Like it was it was so fun to do a set like that because everyone had the best sense. It's almost like they weren't waiting for you to make them laugh. They were like, let's all enjoy this. Yeah, it's like how when we do ours where you already have the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. So everyone's ready to just go where you want to go. Right. No, I love that. That's great. It was yeah. So thank you, La Podfest. Yeah, Dave Anthony, Graham Elwood, Chris Mancini. It was super fun. Yeah, it definitely was. Give me one second. What do I like about this world? It just can't also be like selfish like what I don't know because yours was very sweet and giving like being alone. No, I think that's really good. See you, of course. You can leave us at let's part in. So Vince was gone last week, missed him, love him. It's so quiet and weird here without him. But God, there's something about being alone and just like watching whatever you want to watch and lots of farting and drinking, you know, drink, having a drink and talking to your cats and like singing stupid songs. And I just really enjoy that a lot. Yeah. In a way that's like doesn't mean I don't love Vince. Oh, of course not. You know. No, no, no, I think it's it's almost like a resetting. Yeah. When you can just get a little. I mean, I've gone you have to be careful, though, because then after a while, like I think I have thin skin about it where I mean now I'm becoming that kind of person where like I need things to be a certain way because I'm so used to always only having things exactly I want them, which isn't good. Yeah. But then when you meet someone you really like, you're like, oh, I like the way he does that stupid thing. Yeah, that's true. Now it's like I had some I had some greeting or some like saying I saw a long time ago that said like when you don't like someone the way they eat pisses you off when you like someone they could spill food on you and you'd be so thrilled about it like something like that where it's just depends on the person. Yeah, that's very true. But there's there is something very zen about just like being in silence or just kind of doing what you want and not always for so long. I really always had to have like three people around me at all times. And just kind of knowing yourself too and knowing what you would be like alone in your schedule and like how you would fall asleep at night, which is apparently on a fucking naked bed with my fucking vintage comforter and no sheets and no sheets covering me. And, you know, it's kind of cool to check back in with yourself like that. Yeah, I think that's really good. Yeah. And then when skim home, I was like, great, I got to be a human again. I actually have to shower. Yeah, he's very strict about that. Um, yeah, being alone. Consider it. Consider it for a hot second. And we're back. OK, so we originally titled this episode Peek Experience. But if we were naming it today based on the episode that just happened, maybe we would call it we could call it swear to almost, which was Georgia being almost positive that Danny Glover was the host of Cold Case Files. So instead of saying swear to God. That means I was right because I wasn't right. It was right for you to backtrack. That's right. OK, we could also call it Giants for You because I love that. You have that interest, Karen. Giants for You. Of course, me and Sister Rita Rose, who my foundational memory of Am of D. You feel horrors with that old, old nun who also taught my mother. We've got insane phony lunatic. Love love that. And then, of course, Downer, Tin Abbey. Downer, Tin Abbey. That's the really dark, sad goth down to Navi. I still think that's a great idea. That's funny. All right. Well, let's have Elvis say goodbye back in the pod loft in 2017. All right. Well, thanks for listening. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye. Bye Elvis. These are microphones Elvis want to cook. Cookie. The biggest. You just blew doors on that one. Bye. Bye. Yeah, we heard you.