Why The CIA Studies This UFO Experiencer

Do you think other people think that you were the Messiah? Came out of a conference speaking and when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. What? Yeah. My job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. It was 19 years ago on January 8th of 2007, I was down and out and lost everything. Lost my home and I'm having to plough for three lunch for my kids. Sick with Crohn's disease. And if anybody has Crohn's, know how bad that is. You're in the restroom. Ten times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. On January of 2007, while fishing with friends in North Carolina, Chris Bledso witnessed a series of bright, intelligently moving orbs in the sky. That moment doesn't end. It starts a series of unexpected and seemingly miraculous events. And then McCron's was gone. I had a more sickness. In the days and weeks that follow, the phenomena continue. The lights appear again and again, sometimes at a distance, sometimes directly over his home. He reports numerous encounters that don't resemble crafts, lights or UFOs at all. But what he describes as a luminous, feminine presence, deeply unsettling in its archetypal familiarity. Her communication seems to go beyond the clichés and platitudes of normal contact experiences. They touch on humanity's deep moral decay, cycles of civilizational collapse, judgment, the apocalypse, and renewal. They revolve around humanity reaching a threshold. I came back excited to tell it, that's when the next five years of darkness I talk about my book started. His UFO experiences only serve to make him more of a pariah in his local community of Fayette Hill, North Carolina, where fundamentalist Christianity is the only way, and anything paranormal is considered demonic. NASA and the CIA show up at Bloodsews door, and not just anybody at NASA in the CIA. I'm talking about a high level NASA mission control, who has worked on launches at Cape Canaveral since the Challenger missions in the 80s. And he said, I was at the dinner table with the president, handed me that. He said, yeah, and this, yeah. Scientists, military, and other intelligence officials follow suit. They grill bloodso on his experiences. Some imply that certain dates and symbols he's given by the lady, align with things they're already monitoring, and have seen from other authoritative sources. So they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA. They know a lot more and we know than we think they do. I personally don't know what Chris Bloodsew experienced, and continues to experience to this day. But I know that history doesn't sit at the edge of history forever. It's either going to collapse under scrutiny, or force us to redraw the map. In this special episode of American Alpamy, we have a markedly different conversation than the one that Chris Bloodsew is used to have it. He took you to Zanesville, Ohio, when you recovered a little piece of metal? Yeah. Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio? Yeah, I do. Take down some brown, right? What? Instead of just retelling his story, we make some pretty mind-blowing connections from it. One's involving secret societies with access to time travel. Many gravity experiments done in mid-century America. Space metal with curious properties that interact with consciousness in weird ways. What exists on the dark side of the moon? And what the world will look like in the next decade? So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to ascend into the astral plane with this week's American Alchemist, Christopher Bloodsew. This has been a long time coming. I'm here with Chris Bloodsew, who many call it a super-experiencer because I was just rereading your book, UFO of God. Your life is really just remarkable. You've had all these incredible deep experiences. And I want to talk about those experiences. But I also want to talk because your story is well known at this point. I also want to talk about some of the deeper philosophies that you've come into based on your experiences. It may be a kind of a metaphysical conversation. But I want to start with this very interesting discussion that we just kind of sparked up as you were walking in, which is you have this golden pin on your jacket. What is that pin? Well, that pin was given me by someone everybody has read about, right? Down it kept cannaboral without sayings. It signifies being off planet. So from what I'm told, the people that get these have been in space before. So astronauts, pretty much right. And why do you think this person gave that pin to you? At the time I had no clue other than what they were telling me. It involved taking me into the astronaut crew quarters and going through a whole thing because I was, in other words, when this thing first happened, this person from NASA came to my house with a backpack and a whole lot of credentials that had everything from Area 51 to the CIA and all that combined NASA. And he tested the whole family with metal. He put a piece of metal in my hand. I was the last one to be tested. All my four of my kids and my wife, they all went into this one room. So she got Ryan. He got Ryan's the first one and kind of made it secret. He took Ryan in to a room, tested him and said, now you go get the next person, don't tell them. So he went out and got each person in the family tested them with this metal. He brought me in last and I had no idea what I was doing. I sat down on the edge of the bed. It was in Ryan's room. And he put this piece of metal right here and I said, what do you think of that? I said, well, it looked like a piece of aluminum, like a poachist stamp. Size, that size, then. It was a light, very light. Yeah. It was kind of a dull gray. It wasn't like shiny. It was aluminum, some sort. And he reaches in his backpack and pulls out another piece of metal that was different. And it was like aluminum foil, looked like foil. And it wasn't crease, you couldn't crease it, but it would wrinkle, but it would hold back out, but it wouldn't crease. You couldn't increase it. You could, it would kind of roll up and then straighten out. But when he put that in this hand, it somehow another created this current that went through where it was communicating, this part of the metal was communicated with that part of the metal. And it happened. It caused me to rise the roll back and he reached up and snatched it out of my hand real quick and said, why you? This isn't the book, by the way. And I had no idea what happened. He said, why you, this close, I said, excuse me, what do you mean what I mean? He said, well, I would have known you were lying about being taken. If you hadn't, I had a reaction to this and said, I've only ever seen two others and it would nothing like yours. So what do you tell me? So that started a, the next two, three years study and with them. And I've been kind to my friend without saying his name, but you know who I'm talking about. I know you're talking about. Can I say who it is? I think it's Tim Taylor who's a mass emission controller who, yeah, his name is now sort of sort of out there and yeah, we should definitely be respectful to him as somebody who doesn't maybe want to do public interviews himself, but I think he's put himself out there enough to. Yeah. So who is this Timothy Taylor figure showing up in Bloodsauce Life? He's a mysterious rocket scientist who's done mission control for NASA since the 80s. That part is not really disputed and it's well documented in his autobiography Launch Fever. At one point, Tim Taylor even had a small YouTube account with videos showing his deep levels of access to NASA facilities. He's also taken people like Bloodsauce through Kennedy Space Center. Religious studies professor Diana Pousalca, along with others, have said that he's worked directly with Elon Musk. But where it gets interesting is that he's also popping up in the lives of numerous UFO experiences, claiming that he's a time traveler and works for an angel. Basically, he exists at the intersection between rigorous, real world aerospace work and totally insane UFO war, and that's why he's still American Alchemist's most requested guest. Some of the things that Tim Taylor told Chris would wholesale overhaul our understanding of reality if it all true. Really smart guy, like genius level. Really? Yeah. I enjoyed his company. We did a lot of stuff together. We traveled together. We were able to recover some metal together up. Wow. I didn't know that. Where was that? That was in Ohio. In Ohio? Yeah. Where in Ohio? In a little town called Zainsville. Zainsville. Zainsville, yeah. Zainsville, Ohio. Yeah. I do. T-Towns and Brown, right? What? He took you to Zainsville, Ohio when you recovered a little piece of metal? Yeah. A pretty good piece about that big. You're sure you went to Zainsville? Yeah. In fact, I went in a machine shop, he and I, and had a piece sold off the metal, which he took with them. And we gave the other piece back to the person that had it. And I knew the person, and he wouldn't give it to anyone in the world, but he called me. He drives up in his yard and there's this red piece of glowing. He sees this thing over his house and it goes away when he drives up, but there's a piece of red glowing metal in the yard. He, let's say cool, picks it up and puts it in a shoe box and there it stays for 15 years. No way. And when he found out about me and read the store, he calls me and says, I got something on me to see. And so I called Taylor and he and I flew up there. This is either engineered to make me excited. Or this is the most remarkable story ever. I almost lost it during this part of the interview. Zainsville, Ohio is where Thomas Townsend Brown was born. To me, Townsend Brown is the most interesting historical figure in the 20th century that no one knows about. I've independently uncovered an absurd amount of information that leads me to believe that Townsend Brown essentially discovered anti-gravity in the 1950s. He was funded by the same physics patrons at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill that sent science down the wrong path with quantum gravity in 1957. He was also backed by the highest levels of CIA and aerospace. There are even videos of Townsend Brown at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill celebrating because his experiments presumably worked. Here he is with a bottle of champagne. And we know, due to real declassified documents written by the head of Australia's nuclear program, Harry Turner, and often cited by UFO whistleblower David Grush that University of North Carolina Chapel Hill was waste, deep, and anti-gravity research. We also have a deathbed confession of French aerospace representative Jacques Corneone saying that Townsend Brown's experiments worked in Paris in the Mungalvie facility in 1956. And that's just the tip of the spear. We also have Carl Nell, who helped set up Army Futures Command, which led all tech modernization efforts for the Army, implying that Townsend Brown made breakthroughs in the world of gravity. Jesse's done a number of podcasts looking into Townsend Brown and some other very interesting, like, heretical technologies, so I'd invite people, an unsolicited plug to check out some of Jesse's podcasts. Not to mention NASA's top scientist in electrostatics, Charles Bueller, literally leaving NASA to start a propellant-less gravity-based propulsion system that he says is a derivative of Townsend Brown's work. The term asymmetric electrical pressure is similar to Thomas Townsend Brown's research into asymmetrical capacitors. Those older papers that older subject matter is probably valid for most of the point. I could go on, but I'll spare you. The fact that Chris Bledso was taken to Zainsville, Ohio, and otherwise completely unremarkable Little Ohio Town seems like a very unlikely coincidence. And the fact that the goal there was to retrieve an exotic piece of metal seems even more unlikely, especially given that Tim Taylor was a scorting bloodso there. As you're about to hear in this conversation, there are tons of other bizarre connections between NASA mission controller Tim Taylor and mid-century anti-gravity inventor Townsend Brown. This episode is sponsored by Superpower. 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And so if there's a connection between this NASA mission controller who's obsessed with UFOs and this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, and then you're literally going to Zane's Villa Ohio to collect UFO material, which is where it's a random place. And that's where Towns and Brown was born in 1905. And there's their newspaper clippings of him creating wireless telegram basically at the age of 12 or something. That's crazy. Yeah, true story. That's so crazy. I can show you the metal. I'll give you a picture of it a little bit. Can't please. Can I feel the metal? Well, I don't own it. You don't own it. Okay. Tim has it. I would love to see the picture. Yeah. And learn anything else about the Zane's Villa trip. That's just fascinating. Tim got it originally. And then Dr. Putoff got another piece of it. Putoff got another piece. I took Tom DeLong and Louis Elizondo to Zane's Villa were to Pennsylvania or Ohio. You took him to Ohio. The Zane's got to go to the same guy's house and and God them a piece of it as well. Were Tom DeLong and Louis aware of Towns and Brown? I didn't discuss it with him. You didn't discuss that with him. So that's where some of their metal came from. I had three pieces of it. Do you think Putoff knows about Towns and Brown? Yeah. He does. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, he told me he he met him. But he never, you know, he didn't know how far he got, you know, the sort of thing. How he can be a little cheeky, but interesting. For the audience, I mean, I'm sure they know this, but I'm obsessed with this mid-century anti-gravity inventor, Thomas Towns and Brown. Right. Who I am very convinced made real updates in the world of gravity. He was a very nuts and bolts, you know, inventor. He worked at the highest levels of military government with every kind of aerospace company you could guess. I mean, there's an FBI document on him saying he was the foremost radar expert in the Navy. And he was in charge of the Philadelphia experiment, actually, which has all this lore about it. Who knows whether the, you know, pre-Mafaceous story of that is true, but he was at, you know, Martin Vega, the year that Skunk Works formed. He, you know, knew Curtis Lamey, knew Bill Lear, the inventor of the Lear jet. He was being funded by the guys who were sending physics down the wrong path while he was doing his, I think, more vital kind of anti-gravity experiments. But the kind of subplot of his life is that gravity and time are very interrelated in general relativity. And what I found so fascinating is I made this whole documentary on Thomas Towns and Brown and at the end of the documentary, I make this connection that Tim Taylor told your son, Ryan Blutz, so that he was part of a secret time travel group in NASA and the Bahamas. And that Thomas Towns and Brown was the president. And even then, maybe I would have dismissed it out of hand, but I'd become this amateur historian of Towns and Brown. And he would always go to NASA and the Bahamas. And then if you read Tim Taylor's biography, Launch Fever, he's in NASA a lot. So that does kind of place them both in, you know, in NASA at sometimes. It's called the NASA group. The NASA group. So he took you to, is that was the piece of metal, this UFO metal in Zinsville, related to Towns and Brown at all? Yeah, there was a lot of conversation about that. And the amount of activity around that place, he said was all part of the land because where this metal was found, it was near the Indian serpent mound. So they know that there's a lot of activity. And he told me stories about Towns and Brown. What do you say about Towns and Brown? You know, his daughter was doing a book and Tim was helping her with that book. Tim was helping her with that book. Yeah, he helped write that book, that her book. I didn't know that. I do know, I found an Amazon review from his daughter about Tim Taylor's book, Launch Fever. And this was before anybody knew about Tim Taylor because he hadn't even been written about, you know, pseudonymously in American Cosmic by Dan and Poussolka. This is in the early 2010s. So he was helping Linda Brown right in her book. Yeah, sure was. That's amazing. And what did he say about Towns and himself? He told me in her stories of these little things coming and landing in his yard and getting that and giving him information. That's real. Well, at least according to his daughter, his daughter did a sort of AMA on, you know, asking me anything on Reddit. She talked about beings coming down and then entering, I think it was like, she was in the, they were in the kitchen with her dad and her. And they were these sort of pale skinned, you know, looked alien, like looked from, you know, like they were from another planet or existed in another environment. And they talked all night and then, you know, they wake up the next morning. She thinks to dream and then two nights later, they're at dinner and she brings up the dream and Thomas Towns and Brown goes, that was in a dream. Or something like that. Exactly. Wow. Did he ever insinuate on what the NASA group, this time travel group in the Bahamas was doing? He didn't. He didn't. He just told me at one point that he thought I may have to go hide out there. Wow. Really? That was NASA when it really first happened way back. It was a dangerous place. The whole world was different in 2008. It was the highest secured thing in the world. The UFO was more classified harder than the nuclear bomb. But you would have to hang out in NASA. Well, they mentioned that I may have to go there for protection. Interesting. Yeah. What's there? I don't know. I just, that was all he told me. You know, he writes in launch fever his biography about flying these cargo jets back and forth between Florida and NASA. And I think the guy he was flying with was like selling drugs and he didn't even know about it. Like he was, he was just kind of be like a long for the ride or whatever. But then he says some really trippy things around. He goes time moved differently in NASA. He's saying it like it's like island time. You know? So it's like, and then you're like, is that coded? Because he's telling you, you know, that in Diana Pasalco about the adjustment bureau and like, you know, timeline hopping. And then he's saying time moves different in this NASA group, but then in NASA. But then he's also telling your son and you that he's in a secret time travel group with towns in Brown and NASA. So I'm like, is he writing in code there? Yeah. These guys are all about, yeah, they're so super secretive. They can, they'll tell you things and code like that. And it's up to you to get it or not. But yeah. I want to meet the NASA group. How do we do that? I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know. How would find them or what? That was just, that was something told to me years ago and Ryan heard it. And it never left me, but as far as where and how and who I don't know. Yeah, we never got involved. Yeah, because it's so, it's so like the world's so interesting because he also, I believe he told you and I think Diana Pasalco that, you know, he said, read the adjustment team or watch the adjustment bureau, which is the original is a Philip K. Dick book. And then this movie with Matt Damon and it's all about adjusting little variables to change timelines. Right. And he viewed his role in reality as doing that. And so do you think he actually viewed his role as doing that as part of this sort of timeline adjustment team? Name 10. Tim Taylor, yeah. Well, he told me, he was going to tell me to read the watch to maybe he said that maybe was created for a reason. Watch it. It's a lot like that. And then he said, and in that movie, you'll find a character named the hammer. And he said, and I worked for the hammer and the hammer works for God. I'm like, are you going to tell me more than that? And that's all he would tell me. Said I worked for the hammer and the hammer works for God. And you, what do you think the hammer is? In the movies and like an archangel. He's the guy that the lesser beings couldn't, couldn't stop what was happening because of love, you know, if you watch the baby. That's so fascinating. So they send the hammer down to, to take care of it. And of course, I won't spoil the movie, but it ends up well. But it's a yeah. Well. I mean, do you think that he's in touch with a celestial being with an angel? He insinuated that and I can probably believe that. Yeah. Something. Yeah. Was an angel a lot. I don't know. So what would the, because he seems to show up in a lot of, you know, super experiences live. So there are people who've had experiences here and there and then there are people like you who have repeated experiences and a lot of interactions with this other world. And I found it very interesting that he showed up in Charles Hall's life and then he shows up in your life. I think he knew Whitley Streiber as well. Oh, he's a good friend of ours. Oh, so you know, you know, Timothy Taylor. He came here because he found out about Charles. And that was when his daughter, the one who had the baby was like, what was she? Maybe in fifth grade when they came the first time. Yeah, we know. Why do you think he was, he became interested in your story? My wife can answer all the questions. Because he realized this far as he was concerned that Charles was the real article was legitimate. And as I say, it's really concern me because I've tried to email other people because he brought other people to meet us and visit with us. One of the guys cooked right here in my kitchen. So I tried to contact those people because I had emails for them and I never got a response about what happened to him. So what do you think it is with him? Do you think there's some mandate from the hammer, from this angel or something to interact with experiences? If he's been truthful about that, I would say that's probably correct. Or some kind of mandate guiding him. So he's definitely connected. I mean, big time. Do you think he was being truthful? Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes you wonder if it's all smoking mirrors designed to throw you off course, you know, but I listen to everything. I work with him for three or four years. Before Diane and I met, and my introduced Diane and Tim, we were working on crazy stuff, like stem cell research. And I have no idea what that is and what proteins are and anything medical right on the carpenter. And yet I'm reading papers at night that they were sending me. And my job was to draw whatever came out of me, whatever I saw. And so usually every week I'm sending in some sort of diagram of cells and all kinds of things. Whoa. Yeah. As you know, on American Alchemy, we cover a lot of technology that goes beyond human limits. This is about technology that helps the body catch up and feel good. I'm talking about the iristor LED face mask, a red light therapy system that uses clinical grade wavelengths to boost skin cell energy production. The same exact principle used in the top recovery clinics in bio optimization labs in the world. I've been using it most nights, 10 minutes while I'm reading, prepping for a show or decompressing, it's completely hands-free, comfortable and engineered to deliver consistent light intensity across the face, not that uneven scatter most cheaper masks use. It feels like your face is taking a warm bath. What it's doing is called a photo bio modulation, stimulating mitochondria to repair tissue, reduce inflammation, and improve circulation. You actually feel the calm and rejuvenation after a session. I've tested a few of these. This one really stands out for the build quality. It feels like it was built in a high precision lab and it's not just a cheap beauty gadget. So if you're into real evidence-based recovery tech, this belongs in your setup. Head to iristor.com and use code Jesse25 for an exclusive discount. Again, iristor.com code Jesse25. Red light therapy has really been a game changer for me, so I hope you love it. It's almost like you were part of a secret science program where you were given material a look at you didn't even have contacts on the material, but you were getting downloads about it. Do you think any of that made it into his, he had a lot of biomedical patents. He had a company called Vivex Biotechnologies, which he sold for $88 million. That's who I was working with. That's your back company. They were creating what's called a biograph, which was based on metal. The metal that they recovered and infusing it into this, well, the particular, and I have a video of the operation of a young lady, the first operation in the United States. I was a Spanish lady that had bone cancer in her thigh and they removed two inches of the bone. They wrapped it with this biograph, injected stem cells into it, and in 60 days her bone had regrown. The pain was gone. She could walk again. Wow. Yeah. No, that is an operational, functional company that does real things in the biomedical world. What makes it fascinating is that maybe the backdrop of that company is recovered UFO material and somebody like you intuitively downloading the functionality. I don't know how much good I did, right? But it was, it come from a carpenter being ridiculed by the whole community. So secretly drawing diagrams for NASA was, you know, it was a pretty cool thing. Well, you have all these rumors of Philip J. Corso and him being involved in, I think, Army's foreign technology desk and transferring crash materials from raw as well, for example, to Bell Labs so they could help build semiconductors, things like that. But what you don't hear of is people like yourself who are intuitively kind of tapped in, downloading aspects of the functionality of some of these technologies. That's really interesting. Well, I'm learning, I'm learning over the last night. It's been 19 years I've been doing this right a long time. In that time I've learned a lot and I keep learning every day. But there is a great correlation with the phenomenon, guiding us and creating things in our path. And if you smart enough, then you pay attention to that. All kinds of things come. So like being sure like homes, I'm like, oh boy, what's next? You know, that's kind of the way I modeled my life is letting it guide my path rather than me try to drive the bus. I call it the lady, right? Or that, the phenomenon. Yeah, yeah, it's like the way is not the way. You have to, or I think there's a concept called woo way, which is effortless effort. And there's sort of sitting back, being receptive, listening to the signs and then just kind of following the path. And that's an art. It's easy to get into this mode of being attached and trying to over engineer outcomes. Exactly. For example, in the music world, I wrote about something that happened. I was given a message that the divine world encodes messages within the music that we listen to and we just don't know it. So it's being channeled by these musicians. And that led me to how manifestation works is because when I was giving that information, I was given five or six songs, six, five right away and one at another point. And when I read the lyrics on it, it was like, oh my god, this is crazy. This is crazy. I couldn't believe you hear these songs, but you never read the words well that day. In 2012, I said, Lord, I wish I could tell Sammy Haggar from Van Halen or Robert Plant or Jimmy Page or Neil Young. These are the guys or Metallica, right? These are the guys that I just said the simple little prayer. You know, right off top of my head, Lord, I wish I could tell them, wow, this is what I was thinking. Last year on my birthday, I get a phone call and it's Sammy's wife, Cari. And we become friends and then it turned into a hammer with Metallica. And then I get a text from my friend. He said, hey, Chris, I'm in the pub in England and set him aside. And as Robert Plant, he's reading your book. No way. Yeah. That's crazy. I got a birthday and it's the same two days later I could call from Fred Durce, Lent Viscat. Oh, yeah. Well, he's super in here. I love Fred's UFO podcast. Yeah. I've been on his podcast. Oh. So anyhow, it just all poured out and it manifested. I didn't do it. I didn't seek these people out. They called me. And now that's Sammy told me that the song Love Walks in. You don't even know where the words came from. Just came out of it. And it's just song is like, you have to read the lyrics on it. Wow. Yeah. Well, I didn't even, I mean, it's crazy how much music is influenced by this stuff. Like, I think Paul McCartney, one of the Beatles had a dream about a flaming pie. And that was how the Beatles name came about somehow. I didn't know that. It was going to be spelled differently. Well, Beatles. And then it moved into BATLES after this flaming pie came down in the stream or something. And so, yeah, you have a lot of these sort of stories. That's amazing. Do you think that, you know, because we often think of like, you know, the aerospace world that's interested in a lot of what you're doing is very kind of nuts and bolts focused. Not, they don't care about, you know, downloads or experiences or whatever. Do you, do you, do you feel like they really do? They're very, they are really interested in the phenomena and they, they are learning from it as much as they are just, you know, writing equations on trot boards. A million percent. In fact, in the last year I've seen, were two years, I've seen a huge increase in the, the scientist mainstream scientist that, you know, forever like Diana, she was the first PhD that would even talk about this, right? And back then, if you even said this out loud, people would laugh and walk away. Nobody would talk with now. There's over 200 mainstream scientists right now. That was the word I was told by Dr. Estabes and Abraides Estabes. Oh, yeah. She's been on the public. We're, we're still coming out with something cool. Yeah. But she, American Deep Tech. She's told me that there's at least 200 scientists that want to start working on this thing. Fascinating. Yeah, that's fascinating. And it almost feels like at times the scientists are being coordinated on a higher level. Yeah. And this gets into like the three-body problem or, you know, science fiction novels like that where, you know, the way that the phenomena speaks to us is through scientific discoveries and innovation through serendipitous meetings between scientists. And I'm sure it's the same thing with art and other creation. Big time and to the creativity world, artists of all kinds. In other words, I don't mean to interrupt, but if I had to say of all the people that call me that the majority of these experiences are good, majority of them will be artists, the paint, that make music, that act, or different type of people. And created people. For some reason, they're the ones that have a lot of this experience and have been for years. Makes sense that they'd be tapped in. I think it's more interesting in a sense that somebody like, you know, I've spoken to how put off about this and he goes, I always follow the synchronicities. And when they stop, I know I'm on the wrong path. Yeah. This guy is a very serious scientist who's popping up not only in areas of, quote unquote, UFO science, but in, you know, prosaically very interesting science. Right. So pretty serious guy. Yeah. And we were talking outside. It sounds like you're in touch with some lock-eed guys, too. Yeah. What's the deal there? Well, I have friends everywhere. There's no shortage of people from NASA, from Lockheed, from 3M, from Oliver, these scientists, but I haven't had a friend that is a material scientist that works with this material. And he kind of stays pretty close to me, Paul and me about. We travel together and we study together and doing a lot of things right now. Interesting. Who's that? I can't do this. Does he work at a big aerospace corporation or? He, well, he, yeah, you'll see him one day at, he lives in Silicon Valley, but you'll see him one day, he'll be in a skiff somewhere under an airport or he'll be in a NASA. Or he'll be somewhere in amongst all that. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. It's so interesting. He's educated me a lot on this metal and how it acts and how it acts differently in zero gravity than it does on ground level. How does the metal act differently in zero gravity? It has a way of, well, just let's just say the words I heard, this metal is much, much like an animal and that it is always seeking for energy and seeking to connect. And how I got this pin was being off planet and being tested by that metal knowing that it bonded to me. So that's why this phenomenon is always around. It's trying to reconnect all the time. And because you went up on a craft, you're somehow connected with the metal. How do you think you're connected with it? Into the DNA is all I know. It's a frequency. I think our DNA is transmitted in a frequency, which I've seen the papers on it and a radar type frequency. So it's pinging and it's receiving, sending and receiving. So it's always, it's always once it connects with you on that level and I'm being very careful not to say a whole lot here. But I get a phone call if I say too much right. So yeah, but they're clearly trying because they know you have a public presence. They're going to get asked about this stuff. They want to get it out somewhat would be my guess. You know, there's a scientist named Constantine Mille. He's in the black forest in Germany. And he talks about scalar physics and its relationship with DNA, specifically like DNA resonance with these exotic electromagnetic waves that exist in the scalar field. Which if you think about it, if we are getting any sort of messages via our DNA, a transverse hertzie and a classic electromagnetic wave doesn't really make sense because it decays at one over R squared. So if you're in a Faraday chamber, you're kind of in some remote place or whatever, the decay function on a normal electromagnetic wave would be too stark for you to really receive a lot of information on going. But if you have some of these more exotic waves that travel at one over R, which a lot of these kind of deeper aerospace scientists believe possibly exist, maybe your body would be able to download and encode a lot more information. And they say they think that the sun is a scalar wave generator. So maybe the sun is constantly spurring evolution. And Tim Taylor talks about in Diana's book, American Cosmic, that his protocols are around being in the sunlight. That's it. And in fact, I read the paper on it 15 years ago, 13 years ago. And the thought is that the sun, the way it shines at an angle on the earth, it creates the green color spectrum, which is the center of the color spectrum, right? And in that, our sun is affecting what's called ADT, which is the hemoglobin in your blood and the chlorophyll implant. So when it hits that, it starts this energy and it starts creating life. And so the sun is telling everything how to be a pair, how to be a grass, how to be a tree, how to be a mere you. So all the information of life is coming from that green light from what they're saying. It's just constantly sending all information, all encoding to every living thing, birds, so where it comes from. Yeah. It's really amazing. I mean, there's this idea of the Anthropic Principle, which is why is earth, you know, this perfect kind of homeostatic, like just place that that fosters life. And there are, you know, a couple of different explanations for it. One is like, we've tried a million different iterations. This is the Goldilocks zone. We just got really lucky or whatever to live in the one where it's perfect. And then there's another one, which is this has been sort of created or simulated, you know, for for life. And if you think about the earth's magnetosphere, the way it blocks cosmic radiation, but it allows just enough cosmic radiation to allow for the perfect amount of natural selection to allow for, you know, real, real evolution, put then the magnetosphere of the earth itself, like literally the human resonance fosters human and animal morphology. And this sort of perfect way, if you put a frog embryo and a ferritate chamber where that's blocked, it doesn't grow normally. So it's this like the these perfect sort of circumstances. So one thing we figured out this past year, I was on John Alexander called me two or three times, Chris, nobody got it. Yeah. I was on the, um, this beyond skin walker show with Brandon Fugel, right? So we were at the Monroe Institute. And they took me in the basement of the lab and put me in a ferritate cage. And it's silent. It's walls like this dig with, you know, I'm in the basement of the lab in a build, in a basically a coffin is what it looked like with ceilings or copper and the walls or copper. So no electromagnetism can get in there. And so they had all these cameras outside pointing up at the sky. I'm in this thing and they have Dr. Thompson from New York, Neuros, Neuro PhD and Neurosite was monitoring me and he said if you, if you sense a UFO over the complex, just point to the ceiling, every time I pointed, they were filming something about the building. And that, from that point on, John and a whole lot of other scientists says this proves his consciousness. It's not a lecture magnetic is consciousness. So it's instantaneous as I thought, which is what's creating everything. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you think of, you know, we have phonons which are sort of, you know, quantum vibration packets and then you have photons which are quantum light packets. Maybe at some point we'll figure out quantum thought packets or something. Well, that's it. It's all thought. Hmm. It's just, it's just how it works with me. You know, I don't have to go out and speak to get this thing to come. I just think about it. Hmm. Who knows our thoughts. Hmm. Completely. Hmm. And in advance of what you're going to think, you can't fool it. Wow. It's not at all. There's no way. Wow. This episode is sponsored by True Classic. This is one of my favorite shirts. It kind of works for every occasion. I honestly didn't think I cared about T-shirts until I realized how many of them I don't wear. They end up just accumulating in your closet. Most of them look fine on a hanger. Then you put them on and something's off. They're too boxy. They're too stiff. They're too long. Or they just kind of hang weird. That's the problem True Classic set out to fix. They focus on the fit first, which in my opinion is the most important thing when it comes to a shirt. 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So if you want to get some super high quality shirts, go to tru classic dot com slash Jesse to refresh your wardrobe for 2026. You can also find them at Amazon, Target, Costco, and Sam's Club. Thank you to tru classic for sponsoring today's episode. I want to go where other people haven't gone and interviews with you. Do you feel like when you read like, this is going to sound like a crazy question, but like when you read the book of Acts and learn about Jesus, do you feel like he is a state of being that others can get to through kind of really spiritual profound kind of experiences, but Dynaposalca calls in her book, Hierophonies, Revelations. And again, this is not to make him out to be this exclusive, untouchable, you know, being or state, but like maybe maybe some people can reach a state. Do you feel like maybe you're in that sort of Christ consciousness and that allows you to have 100% effect on you? Yeah, 100%. And the way I was born and raised a Baptist and married a Pentecostal holiness girl and I was very deep into the church and loved it. And my wife still goes. She was at church yesterday and a day before Sunday. But the way, you know, when Jesus came, he was in a Christian. He was just saying the kingdom of heaven is with them. You can talk to God yourself and you don't need to pay anybody to have that. And I don't think they like him saying that a whole lot in his life was cut short because of that. Well, that's one of my favorite lines. It's in an apocryphal, you know, the gospel of Thomas, but it's, you know, if you look to the sea, the fish will proceed you. I would like to ask, the birds will proceed you. The kingdom of heaven is inside of you. And all around you. And, you know, and then you'll have hardcore biblical scholars say, that was written 150 years later. And you know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's the word Jesus. The kingdom of heaven is within you. Yeah. That's a spark. That divine spark. And, and you can, yeah. Do you, how do you, how do you, because like, I feel like my, on world view and on top of you in some ways matches a lot of yours and what you say. And then I think there are a lot of people out there who are like, who is this guy saying that he sees orbs and, you know, that's it's 747 or satellite or whatever. What do you say to those people? Um, you know, I expect that. I've learned until you see it experience that you're just uninformed, you know, it's real. There's 100% real. And I have shared it with groups as large as a thousand at one time, with a PA and as, the most liberal UFO group, you know, I've ever been to was contacting the desert this past summer, right? And here I am being drug by the hand all day. You need to be in this room at this time, this room at that time, hadn't eaten all day, hadn't been to the bathroom. And it's like seven o'clock at night. And I'm finally, you know, and I deal with rheumatoids of my energy levels and they even in our love. My wife comes in or the my assistant comes in and he says, oh, you got a sky watch yet at, at, uh, nine o'clock. It was eight then. I'm like, oh my God, I forgot all about that huge pressure. It's, it's cloudy. It's raining and Palm Springs. It never rains in Palm Springs, right? It's sprinkling. And they said, there's a big group setting outside waiting on you. So I like, I'm like, I took my total of my life as to take me somewhere to where nobody can see me because if they see me, there was always 50 people in line, right? So she took me over to a little seating area where it was dark and I lay back and I looked up at the sky. And I said, Lord, I need help. I'm stressed tonight. It's raining. There's a thousand people out there wanting to see something. And suddenly when I said that, my wife sent me, I heard this, this telepathic voice say, don't worry about the rain. It'll just get more interesting. And then I saw these three orange orbs come down under the clouds and this digital digit is said, 9.45. It's just flashed right up. I said, okay, there'll be three orange orbs at 9.45. So I got up. I walked over to the center of a thousand people there in a big circle and I'm in a 20 foot circle that kept that where I could walk or ended it with a microphone. And so I told the whole group and I were in advance. I said at 9.45, there'll be three orange orbs that appear underneath the clouds and exactly at 9.45 it happened. Whoa. Do you have videos then? Yeah. Wow. And you can hear me on the microphone. So I recorded predicting it and I were in advance. But I didn't predict it. I saw it. It shared it with me. Wow. Yeah. It's so fascinating. It's like that the fatty amount of prophecy but compressed and at a UFO conference. But you know what I did. I know that you have a conference in there. You know, some of them got ten full hats on and they have all these galactic federation a lot. Yeah. It doesn't compute with me, right? So I basically held a little church at the most literal thing. I didn't not church, but I said, look, we're just going to say a little prayer here. This is how it works for me. There isn't a summoning. All this thing you hear about summoning these things. If they're having negative experiences, whoever's doing this, well, that's why. Because you're open to anything coming. But I always use a little prayer. And so I just told them. I said, I believe that the Holy Spirit is this beautiful lady that gave me this information and I'm just going to ask her right now to share her presence with us. And that's the only thing I should. What do you think of, because it seems like you're coming at this from a very spiritual perspective, there are rumors that the legacy UFO program itself uses protocols to attract UFOs to come in. Sometimes you use directed energy weapons against them, get them to land, psionically through what they call psionic assets. So that would be finding somebody maybe similarly tapped in as you are, but who's sort of not maybe come about it in the more earnest spiritual way through life experience that you did. Maybe they just have some ability or maybe they've been given a protocol or something. What are psionic assets? When we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a psionic asset, which is an individual who's trained in remote viewing psychic abilities, telekinesis, that type of thing, which is basically through a number of different protocols can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field. How do you feel about that attracting crafts to come down, trying to derive material from these crafts or get downloads from them, but for defense military industrial complex purposes? Well, I've been working around a lot of those people and I've had a lot of proposals that you wouldn't believe. Even proposals if I could get it to come down, could they shoot at it? I'm like, absolutely not. That's not going to happen with me. You want to study it? What I see is, I just want to communicate with this. You hear about all that, but I've not seen it yet. I haven't seen the results. So there's a lot of talk out there, but not a lot of data to show, right? Where I show the data. I take a thousand people out or 500 out and we get things that appear to have wings. Orange glowing beans as many as 20 at the time fly 25 feet over our head and appear out of thin air, come right over, glowing. It says, very spiritual and sacred to me and I would never, but as far as, you know, I heard some of the things on age of disclosure and they were talking about negative parts of it or of being negative. I've never experienced that ever in my whole 19 years of doing it. In fact, you talked about the book Bax when Saul was on the road to Damascus. What was it that appeared and blinded him? What was it? He's an orb. Whoa. Flashed him. Said it flashed around him and blinded him. It was a ball of light. Same thing. And so it's all in your thought process. If you grounded with that humbleness and earnest in you love, then you're going to get that. But if you put something out, I mean, if we want aliens, right, we create this in our brain. If we want aliens with red guns, if you get enough of the population to think on that, that's probably world manifest. What do you think the orbs are? That's the sort of perennial question. Because I think a lot of people have these experiences. I think they'll meditate. They'll be deep in prayer and they'll see something. I have an experience like that where I was doing Hall of Traffic breath work with a friend and silver lake, California of all places. The last place you'd ever expect to see anything and we saw two metallic orbs show up. It doesn't feel coincidental that for him, I think it was his first time doing Hall of Traffic breath work. You're supposed to get you into a state where your brain, I think, and dodgeslessly releases DMT and you're in this heightened spiritual state. What do I think it is? What do you think they are? Well, I'm very careful to try not to label because it's all speculation. You asked a question, what do you think? Well, I'm guessing, right? All of us all. And nobody's experienced it. I don't think any more than I have. I see it just about every day of my life and it comes in my house orbs appearing in my room, over my chairs and flying through the house and stuff. So you think you experience it more than anybody in the world? I haven't seen anybody with the data I have. It showed me the data and then we, you know what I'm saying. But people are seeing it now and I predicted that. In my book, you'll read where I wrote about a certain incident that was going to happen in the future, which was when I ran an Israel, began to exchange missiles at one another. At that point is when these balls of light, these orbs were going to start appearing and revealing themselves to the world. I wrote about that and that was something I've talked about for 10, 12 years and then look last November. These drones, supposedly drones that show up, those aren't drones. Their orbs coming out to see appearing and they're saying stop. They de-esculated and they kind of settled. They started putting up 30,000 polling. All of a sudden now there's orbs all over Europe. What do you think the orbs are? Based on the patterns that I've seen. I'm saying I'm guessing, right? But 19 years of research and prayer, simple prayer, that mindset, don't have to say it verbally, just think it. Lends me to believe it's something connected to our thoughts, very caring, loving. And our beings, I can share a video with you of an orb with a lady standing beside me and another lady, I go, well, on each side, this one has cancer, stage four kidney cancer. Jesus. She's missing one kidney already. Year and a half later, my testecizes and her other kidney. She calls me. So she's worried about her, the chemist not working. So she had a very poor chance of survival. So she calls me and comes to my house from 2015, I guess, and 2013 maybe. And she brings her girlfriends like five of them. So all of those, myself, a wife and some of my children and three Native Americans, they're outside, they just happen to show up at the same time, friends of mine. And so I've got them to kind of do a spiritual song that they do for healing for her. All of a sudden in the video, you'll see an orb appear and it comes zoom in right up to me. And all of a sudden it flashes. And out of that comes a tall glowing figure about six to seven feet tall. And then it just kind of moves over out of the camera right in front of this lady. And then she goes to get her scan of Monday and has them or cancer. What? Yeah. And I have it on video. So I would love to see that video. I'm sure a little bit with you. That would be amazing. That's amazing. So 19 years I have more data about this and more that most people can imagine. Would she ever go on record and talk about this? Yeah, probably. Wow. I'd love to speak with her. This is so amazing. So this is why I always lend to the spiritual side. You know, I believe if there's what is an angel, some messenger, I don't know what it is. It is to me is it is it can and it could be just a fractal of consciousness itself, which that word means God. And it comes back to the creation or the creator that mind. So maybe these lights are just fractals of that. But I don't know. Do you believe Tim Taylor is a time traveler? Well, I'm guessing, you know, people say that, but it's possible. It's very possible. We were talking right before we were rolling about intersection points. Points where maybe you can hop between timelines or something. Exactly. What does that mean to you? Well, you know, it's just hard to wrap your head around. There's no words for that. The vocabulary for all this is just like very small. But yeah, I'll have to think on that one. What it means. I was having a dream the other night about that, about timelines, changing, shifting, and it was such a weird dream, but it was like, you know, it's like their stories, this is really random, but like Bill Murray, the actor, he'll walk around New York City and take a french fry from somebody eating it in their restaurant or whatever. And it'll just like literally off the street. And then they'll look at him and they'll be like, that's Bill Murray, taking my fry or whatever. And then they'll look at them and they'll go, no one will ever believe you. And that's what a lot of the phenomenon feels like. It feels like self concealing. You know, it's like the perfect, I'm sure the perfect amount of the video that you described was cut off where open-minded people will believe it. And then some hyperscapital will not. Then there's, it's like there is always some little stigma left on the evidence that you do have that is fully debunkable. But it's always like this, like the phenomenon. That's the phenomenon. It is. It's messing with it. It is designed, it's doing that because there are three kinds of people. I've talked about this many times, there are three types. Yes. Probably more. But there are people that can see, right? That can see this. There are people that I can teach to see. And there are people that can never say, oh damn, they'll never see it because they're skeptical. And when you're skeptical about this, you will never be in the club ever. It will not let you in because it doesn't want to mess with your free will. But skepticism is also good. Yeah, but some skeptics can come seers, right? Sure. But there are some that can never. There are brains or wired, you know, to where it's a block. You do need some filtering mechanism. You need something in your brain being like that feels wrong or false. Right. What's the phrase, you know, your mind can be so open your brain can fall out of it. Yeah. So how do you view that? Because discernment seems like an important, you know, part of waiting your way through this topic. 20 years of, 19 years with me when it first happened. All I knew is that I was afraid when I was looking at it in the broad daylight, it came out of the sky in daytime. It wasn't in dream. It wasn't at night. It was in the broad daylight. And they came and they took me. So that programmed me in a way that was never doubting ever. Describe this whole experience. So you, they were, you said, broad daylight and they came and took you. Who's the A and what? Well, they, whoever they are. And this is in my book, a UFO of God, by the way. Check it out. I haven't plugged it yet. It was 19 years ago on January the 8th of 2007. It will be 19 years. I was down and out and lost everything. Lost my home, my income. I had too many houses on the market. I was building a hundred homes a year and it had been for 19, 20 years. And the world trade center thing happened and then the housing bubble bust. And so I found myself in a place where I was living in a million dollar home on the golf course. And now I'm in a mobile home with no income. And I'm having a plough for free lunch for my kids. That's how bad it got. And so I'm crying out to God walking along. I had gone fishing at the river with my son and three other guys and they wanted to fish. And so I walked away. They were sitting on the bank of the Cape River and I walked up the way we came in. We were down in the bottom. You know, you cross a big corn field and then you go down in the river bottom. So about a quarter mile down in the bottom is where they were sitting on the bank. And I told them I'm going to walk up to the field and look for deer or whatever, just wildlife. Telling them how depressed I was and where I was. I mean, I was struggling bad. Sick with Crohn's disease. Had it 18 years suffering with it. And anyhow, I'll walk up to that field and it was just about 10 after five when I started up that way. Took about five minutes to walk, maybe eight. And when I got to the top of that hill, there they were, two of these big balls of fire, like flaming 40 foot round red, orange glowing balls of fire. And the fire is going around it and these little tips were shooting off of it flames. And there were two of them. Side by side. They were low down probably a couple hundred feet above the trees and about 300 yards away. And I'm at the back of the field and they're up at the road highway. You know, that's where they were. And I'm sitting there looking at them, scared to death. First I was mesmerized like one world. I'm a commercial pilot. Still have my tickets. So I knew right away what we were looking at wasn't anything for brag or any military anybody had. And so the chill came over me. It's like, oh my God, what am I looking at? So this is my mind went from amazement to fear suddenly. And then I guess five, 10 minutes sitting there watching it. I got so afraid I wanted to run. So I turned my body and pointed down the hill to go run down to where my son was on the bank of the river. And I had to look back one more time. So I turned to look back before I went to run. And when I did the third one, the third one above me was invisible. It was not visible. It just appeared and shot right straight down in front of me. Five, 15, five, 30 into evening in January. It's not dark. Four hours later, I come walking back to the river where they were. And my son was missing. He wasn't there. He had gotten lost looking for me on foot. I couldn't compute any of that. How I had been gone for 20 minutes is all I could think. And they were fussing at me. Wherever you been, we've been looking all night. It took me a long time to reconcile that. And then my crones was gone. I had no more sickness. And if anybody has crones, knows how bad that is. This is a worse thing. You're in the restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. I'm suffering with sickness and suffering mentally and depression. If I ain't all of it, I'm at the very bottom crying out. Lord help me. What do I do? You're living in a relatively small town in North Carolina where you were very successful and known by all your community members. You were at the depths of despair and I'm sure feeling like a pariah or something about your community. Oh yeah. I came back excited to tell it. That's when basically the next five years of darkness, I talk about my book, started. And it was the pitchforks came out. The holy water came out. And the social services came to my house trying to remove me from the house. But real quick. Yeah. So you said that you thought it was 20 minutes and gone by. It was four hours. It was four hours. And do you remember what you had experienced? Did you recover the memory? I recovered quite a bit of them. I did recover them. I'm a time. And through hypnosis and a doctor from Harvard helped me. And then you got a wonder is it all real, but I can tell you they talk telepathically. It was the doctor from Harvard. Dr. Michael O'Connell. Okay. His name. And is he done this with other experience? Yes. He was trained by John Mack. That's amazing. I didn't know there was a doctor at Harvard currently who was trained. So John Mack was the head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department who saw a lot of experience. And originally he got into it because he was interested in missing time. Right. Like all these people are coming with missing time. And then he had been childhood friends synchronistically with Bud Hopkins who was very interested in experience, his abductees. So he is an air at Harvard. John Mack does Michael O'Connell. Well, he's dead now. He died. That's unfortunate. I was literally going to be like, I want to interview. He was a, I love the guy. We bonded really close until he died. He lived in South Carolina. So I live, you know, I weren't have from him. So we visited a lot. Wow. I think another thing for people to understand if they are skeptical of something coming out in a hypnotic regression, these experiences are so traumatic. So for and do you when they happen? If you look at any other extremely traumatizing experience just in the world, a woman who's or somebody experiences child abuse or something extremely serious that just shatters your whole being, you will repress that memory. And it will often, you know, you'll have fragments of it. You'll have shards of it, but it will be like broken glass. And it will, you'll need techniques like this at times to recover those memories. So, so this guy, Michael O'Connell works with you. And what do you end up recovering? Well, what he, you know, what he did, I'll give you a short on what he did. He came and he started, just dialogue talking and told me that he knew from his studies that they can tend to pack a lot of information in your mind and it's locked away in there. And that if you were to remember it all at one time, it probably tried to be crazy. So he, I can tell you, I had severe headaches if I tried to think, past that missing time, I would pass out. I did it over and over when they were questioning me. I'd get to a point and I couldn't think anymore and the headaches would come so bad. I would pass out. You know, there's a really great book by, my mind's just going to all these crazy places, but there's a book called Healing Back Pain by Paul Sarno. It's this amazing book that healed a lot of people's backs psychosomatically because it talks about chronic pain as being adaptive from a psychosomatic perspective. And so maybe even this was the case with your Crohn's disease that you were facing, where it is more adaptive to feel physical pain at times than to process emotional pain. And so it would make sense that actually physical pain would be the blocker for something that was maybe more emotionally painful or transformative or something. Like sense. Yeah. So we started working together and he told me we're going to program you to where that all the disinformation comes out little at the time, not too much, but you'll remember it all. That's what he said immediately when he did work with me within days, I started having these nightmares and dreaming and speaking in my sleep and talking in my wife and kids were videoing me in the bed. They'd hear me, you know, saying all kinds of crazy things about my experience. But what it was like, Jesse, was like a virtual tour. In other words, they took me the first thing I remembered was seeing Egypt. Why? Over the pyramids, looking over the pyramids and seeing the sphinx, that's all I remember that and seeing this temple, hath or temple. All the animals and the birds, it was just like this video that was playing in my brain about Egypt. So I studied everything. I could study about that. I went to scholars like Dr. Gilbert and learned from Robert all kinds of sacred geometry and stuff. I didn't know you learned from Robert Gilbert. Yeah, you lived in Nashville, right? Close to me. So. Famous, resacruciant scholar. Yeah. Interesting. Love to God. Wow. Yeah. I was like, nuclear chemist and he just passed away from cancer. Yeah, recently. Like, this year, I believe. Yeah, this year. But a world of knowledge and he helped me a lot, understanding the symbols I saw about Egypt and then, you know, 2019 comes along. I write about the Sima book. I'm sick with rheumatoid arthritis now. And I've been on chemotherapy for like six, seven years. I'm down to 150 some pounds walking on a cane and now I'm migrating to a wheelchair. That's where it was in 2019. Diana and Tim were in the Vatican archives in 2017 and I was supposed to go with them, but I couldn't. I was sick. They were. Are you were supposed to go on that trip? Well, it could have been arranged. That was all about me, the whole thing. When they went there, they had a ceremony in the Vatican. It was supposed to be a ceremony for you. Yeah, they had a ceremony. They put my picture into picture of the Pope on outside of the archives and then they placed my photo between the books of Galileo and Copernicus. Really? Yeah, to be there forever. No way. Yeah. Sure did. Do you have photos of this? Did. Did you send that? Wow. This is amazing. Yeah. So. And who was Tim Taylor prompting them to do this ceremony? I think Diana's connection to the Vatican and the lady I speak about. Here I come in 2012 having an experience with this lady, this beautiful glowing lady that, that was something too because that was at the end of five years. Yeah. I was fighting the government, the social services for my sanity. But real quick, so because you were describing your first experience that, you know, O'Connell helped you get out. And so you're around the pyramids. You see the sacred geometry which, you know, Dr. Robert Gilbert helps you kind of decode. Did you decode anything? Did you notice any sort of messaging? Yeah, I did. I started seeing likeness and the way they portray their deities is in the whole matrix of the thing. You know, it's like when Jesus was born, it said an angel came and said, go to Egypt, right? Well, we don't realize that Egypt was controlled by Greece for 500 years before that, right? So perfect fit for him to go there and to grow up there. And when you start seeing the similarities between the two, there's pretty much the same thing. And the stories between the Trinity, Jesus and the Trinity and then raw and horus and the whole thing. They have a try at there, right? But their deities are portrayed as animals, birds, forces of nature. This is what Dr. Gilbert spoke about. It's all about everything, nature and humanity. And so when then you read the story of Ezekiel and the will within the will, right? He walks between two of the cherubim and says, and he walked between them. And there he met an angel, right? And what was it? It had faces of animals and only one part human. So it's not like grandma would wings and a beautiful brother, right? This is these things are creatures. And they're it's always, did you see these creatures? No, only I've studied them. Okay. I saw the creatures, yeah, drew them when they were little glowing beings about the star. But those seem more of the variety of the extraterrestrials or aliens, people kind of experienced. Well, they say that until you read Daniel chapter 10, when it talks about an angel that he saw. And when I described this little being, I said, he looked like glass. He was so shiny. His whole body was glowing like you had a suit on that was gleaming like glass. You see this alien in the craft? I saw it standing from me to you from me. And this was in the woods near your house. Yeah. And I wrote about this and he had a little triangle. And he says, yeah, funny. There's a triangle right there, right? Oh, there you go. I was thinking that when you were like, look at my little pendant, I was like, well, was that an homage to the triangle from the alien being? That was Vanessa. And two, I have multiple videos. And if we go sky watching at some point, you'll see the phenomenon will always try to line up in the triangle or in three. Interesting. So it's like maybe this is telling us something, right? What is that? I don't know. I'm so speculation. I'm learning. What else did Robert Gilbert tell you? Because he did seem like a person who was very tapped into. Oh, yeah. He was a deeper, esoteric truth. Yeah, a lot. I learned a lot from him that that helped me understand that this world is so far more complex. For example, he described pendulums. If you go to Egypt and you dig in the soil there, the most artifacts that they find under the ground in Egypt or pendulum. Is that true? Yeah. That's the most frequent artifact. That's the most frequent. They find the millions of them. And so he explained to me what they knew and how the people that set Washington up, they did the same thing. Why they have an obelisk in Washington, why they have one in Central Park, why is there one in France and England? They have, and they went to Egypt and got those things and brought them back and stood the stones up. Well, you know, if you look at Charles Launfant, you have all this kind of free-mace sonic symbolism around DC. And that is definitely derived from ancient Egypt. In fact, I've been inside of this like free-maceonic temple in DC. And by the way, I'm not a free-mason. I wouldn't be saying this if it was, obviously. But like it's just, you might as well be in like an Egyptian temple or something. It's all Egyptian symbology. And so you think there's like a link between... I think there's... There's a big mystery. But there's a link, some way or another. Wow. Yeah. So interesting. And then the other connection for you with ancient Egypt is... So you're around the pyramids and you see these symbols, but... And then you obviously encounter these beings. But later you encounter the lady. Right. And she describes herself as Hathor. Is that right? Well, that was one name she is. She said she had many names. And she had been called many things throughout the world. In other words, Diana, Demeter, Isis, Hathor, Hara, the Virgin Mary, everything. She's had many names throughout history and by every culture. And the way she explained it to me helped me understand a religion in a different way. How people conceive, you know, like the Taoist or the Muslims or the Catholics or whoever, only imagine God in their minds. We all do. We imagine that. And it turns into an ugly thing because religions tend to think they have the Skivvy on God and therefore we're going to go to war with you because you don't believe like us. That's the problem that has to stop. This is the message she told me that she had many names throughout history and that God is God. And we don't know what we think we know. We need to set back and reanalysen, you know, be good children and all we're going off the cliff. That's kind of the thing she told me. As she told me about the missiles, that was in 2012. But it was so much there. I came out of the 2012 telling it like right away what that she explained to me. And you received a prophecy about 2026 as well, right? Yeah. What was that? Well, she said, and I had no idea what it meant. People don't, other than she said that when the star of regulars, which is a blue star, when it appears red on the horizon at the dawn before the sun comes up in the gaze of the saints. In other words, I saw it in a vision, the whole thing, you can see the saints facing east and this thing is just gresting to top. He said, when that happens, that will be assigned usheres in a new knowledge for humanity. So does that mean the return of Jesus or the return of Christ consciousness it could? And I think that's possible. It marks a sign. She said where the darkness would be exposed and the truth would be revealed. So I think we're going to learn something over the next couple of years. And this was 12 years ago I said this, 13 years ago, 2012. And how when these missiles started flying and the orbs started appearing, Deck had a lot of attention on me real quick. Yeah, it's funny. I'm caught between two minds. One is, I think even the book of Matthew, it's something like nobody knows the day, or other than God, paraphrase. Yeah, nobody knows the day. And then on the other hand, it does feel like just this gestalt sense of things are getting weirder. Dark truths are being revealed, ongoing. It feels like it's already started. And it feels like we're on the verge of some sort of paradigm shift. Yeah, we are definitely. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think everybody sees something coming and a new knowledge just coming. And a new shift that things that I know that imagine a world without oil. Hmm. Do you think we're going to have free energy at some point seen or something? Imagine the world without rockets. Right. So that kind of knowledge alone would change everything. Right. All of humanity. And so that's in our future. Well, that was Thomas Townsend Brown's vision, you know, a world beyond rockets that, you know, he had this model of electrogravidics, which connected electromagnetism and gravity, which, you know, in kind of our standard physics is, you know, we don't have a link between those two things. And if you were to get a link, if the input was pure electromagnetism or, you know, electrical and the output was some sort of gravitational perturbation, that would be paradigm shift. I mean, you get well beyond what SpaceX is, which is extremely inefficient, you know, just of, I believe the, the starship, their latest rocket is, I think it's 5,000 metric tons and an extremely high percentage of that. I mean, the payload capacity of it is like 150 tons. So that ratio alone, it's all fuel. The whole thing is fuel. Right. That's not efficient. That's not alien interstellar space travel. Doesn't make sense. Well, imagine a day that we won't need those things. Hmm. In fact, they probably over to have that. Do you think they did? I think so. Really? I think it's possible. So why not? Because why not let it out then? Because it, it would change everything. Hmm. It could, it could create something that has to be given slowly. It's too disruptive. To disruptive. Yeah. It would definitely be destabilizing for institutions. Exactly. You know, if you had, say right now we're paying, I'm just going to throw fake numbers out there, but $15 per kilowatt hour for electricity or whatever, if that reduced to $0.10 per kilowatt hour, a whole lot of institutions would kind of crumble corporations would experience a lot of, like for the people who are like, it wouldn't destabilize things. I think that's crazy. I think it would. No. I think it would be very positive. Well, it would be in the end, but imagine the old tankers, the thousands of them, or refineries and all the jobs that revolve with it. Sure. Yeah, but then imagine the abundance on the other side. All of those people, their quality of life would be dramatically better. Definitely. Yeah. So is that the new knowledge? I don't know. But I think that is a, there's a whole lot of things that are going to come forward that have been hidden from us. And the main thing is the truth that we're not alone. Yeah. I mean, that, well, that's clear to me. You know, I think that's definitely a thing. And so I believe next year we will be closer to that. Yeah. And the word apocalypse, by the way, you know what that means? Yeah, unveil it. Yeah, the terrible secret. The terrible secret. Yeah. That's all I mean, and people think when you hear that, and if you look on Google, it says the ultimate destruction, the end. It's lying to us. That's not what the word means at all. It means to reveal that which has been hidden. And it's the veil thinning. And I think for some people, that will be very good. And for other people, it will be very bad. It depends on your orientation to it. Right. And I think it does have this connotation of, you know, the Beaselbub coming down and breathing fire onto everybody, sorting people and whatever. But like, I think if you were oriented in a good way spiritually, I don't think it'll necessarily be bad for you. I also don't even, you know, we're talking about it like it's one, you know, crazy event with these like divine beings. Maybe it's like a slow moving thing. Exactly the way I see it. It's not like snappy fingers and something. We're not going to wake up on Easter or whenever that time happens. Yeah. I'm torn by the way, because for eight years, I wrote and talked about this alignment being in September, somewhere in the fall, because that was the date given to me by some people into astrology. And then they come back right when I got to write my book and say, well, we made them a second. It's at Easter and I thought, well, that sounds plausible because the lady's always coming around Easter and saying it's parents is every year at Easter. Are you still having them? Yeah. That's amazing. It'll speak to the year. And you think the Virgin Mary, Hath or Demeter, you think all of these, I think it's a Sophia to wisdom, the Holy Spirit. So that would be kind of the Nostek version or something. Yeah. That's who I think this being is. It was a spirit and it was definitely holy in her presence, right? And so, and she physically impacted me because the wind blew me backwards to the ground. It was such a blast of wind that blew me down and I started researching that. And the word spirit is the wind, right? The word Holy Spirit is the breath of God, but it was the wind that affected me and the power from it. This is Cal came over me, but the wind pushed me back. What does she look like? Look like the most beautiful 35, 40 year old woman you've ever seen. Just glowing and typical Virgin Mary apparition type thing. And this thing, this spirit appears in every country. It appeared to the Native Americans and the Wild West back. They called it a white buffalo calf lady. The Egyptians called her Hath or an earlier before Met and the birth mother, the creator in Proverbs in the Bible chapter 8 and 9 talks about wisdom, the name of the chapters and it talks about and she was created before the earth was created before the beginning of time. Wow. So, who is she, I don't know, but that's my thought. What was the feeling that came over you when you saw her, when you see her regularly? It's, on a first saw, it was, it was very impactful because the cow ran me over and so I had to see extreme fright to start with and then I land on my back and I roll over to get up and run and there's this beautiful woman. So I went from extreme fear to oh my God, what is this in front of me? Is the cow running you over part of the whole thing? That was part of the, her coming at me. She came at me at night out of the darkness as a wind, a wind hit me and as I'm going backwards to the ground. I see a translucent cow running over top of me and I can see stars up through the thing. I'm like, oh my God and I was frightened so bad. I landed on my back and I turned to get up and run and there's this woman about from here to that camera. Three feet off the ground hovering and she looked at me and she said, you know what I'm here. And I'll tell you why she said that because five years had gone by, 2007 to 2012 and I had been beaten down and broken by the community. My children were falling apart. Schools and the teachers were calling them to the side as your dad crazy. We hear about all this. Are you all right? Somebody from there called social services on me and I had to fight to be at home with my children. It was that bad. So five years of that, I walked out on Easter, Saturday night, Easter of 2012. So anyone who's Easter right now, I shouted to the sky, thank you for saving me. Thank you for healing me. But you've ruined my life. Now my children are affected and I have caused them great harm and I'll never speak about this again. Even though I had to desire, they put this in me like the famous movie Close Encounters where you see he's making a mashed potato mountain on his end dirt and he's stoning it in the wind and bushes and he's creating devil sour right. He didn't know what it was but it was in his head. So I was that guy. I had to tell everybody. And the more I told it, the more trouble I got myself into. And what you're referencing with your family is junior, your son who had gone looking for you. And also saw beings was really shocked at what he experienced. It was a community that caused him to want to leave home. Really? Yeah. You see, you're 17 years old and my right hand was with me everywhere I went and we come home telling the world about it. Now the whole community has come on us and so five years into it, I'm out telling the heavens I quit. I'll never talk about it again. And then she appears and says, you know I'm here. This is your burden. You must bear. You have to tell what you know. And if you do, I will allow you to video record and fill my presence and share it with others. The lady says she told me that. And are you going to? Well, let me tell you from 2007 to 2012, I had zero data. I was out every night with a camera trying to get pictures to save myself from the community, right? The more I tried to list it would let me film it. It'd be hovering in the trees behind my house. I pull the camera out and it would bend every time. So I was angry about that. I'm trying to prove myself sane and my child is now left home because the community has just been tough. So she's like, you're not going to quit. I'm going to help you. So from that point forward, I started being able to film it and sharing it with anybody. And I have a masked terabytes and terabytes of data, video, photo, audio, and never a picture until 2012 when she came. Why do you think these guys from NASA are showing up at your door? We mentioned Tim Taylor earlier, is it an NASA mission controller, but Hal Pov and Meyer also showed up originally. And I think you, Ryan, your son mentioned that kind of at the end of his life, you realize that he was both CIA and NASA. And so what do you think their interest in all of this is? Um, and there are a lot more NASA guys. That was just too up. Really? I was in her with Hal's wife this weekend. She came Florida to a Christianer's wedding. Oh, wow. Yeah, we love them. And but there are a lot of other NASA guys that I'm currently talking with. Several, one tells me wherever I go, but they're all interested. They tell you wherever you go. They're with me. Really? Yeah, usually traveling with me. Somebody associated with that. Yeah. What do you think they want? They all want to study it. They want to know and they observe it with me. They take them out. We do a lot of work. Are they with you in Austin, Texas? No, but they wanted to be. I only have one night and my wife's friend traveled with me because she was at our house. Her kids are right down the street. But usually I go nowhere without somebody with me for a reason. Wow. I've had some things that caused me to want to have somebody with me all the time. What happened that caused you to want to not go anywhere on a company? Well, I've been threatened a few times by different ones. Was that the PSI games this year? Sci games. I call it PSI. Sci games and came out of a conference speaking. And when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. What? Yeah. Has something with drugs on it. Try to get me in a van with no tags on it. Security had to come. They had to call the law on her. Yeah. So crazy. Crazy people. Yeah. I imagine you attract a lot of nutty people. What do you think the Vatican knows about all of this? They had a picture of you and they were doing some ceremony about you and you were supposed to come. What do you think they think of you? Well, I can share a couple of photos of you for that, but I got three pictures, several, quite a few paintings that they have in the Vatican that Diana sent me from there and put Francis, she said to tell me that they know that they're angels, that they don't mean to harm us, but their energy, if they get excited, can cause harm to a human. So just be careful and try to ask it not to get too close to you. And these three photos are the paintings show orbs with angels in them. That's what they told me. Yeah, because you have same Francis of Assisi who she writes about in 13th century Mount Lever and Italy, brother Leo is right next to him and he sees this angel. But if you look at the original Greek translation, it's a flaming torch. She thinks it's this UFO experience and that the stigmata he receives, these wounds on his hands are actually electromagnetic damage that like Gary Nolan or somebody studying kind of modern experiences interacting with UFOs might just say, that's like an electromagnetic burn or you let you see it in closing counter of the third kind, you see the burn on his face. I got radiation burns, plasma radiation, that's what NASA told me. So you also got plasma radiation burns? No, I didn't, but I was warned a million times by how popping my iron different ones at NASA kept calling me honestly over and over. Don't let them get too close to get too close to them. The house telling me that they knew the voltage was like 33 million bolts and one of these things. And if it got near me, it would kill me dead. So they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA. They know a lot more than we know than we think they do. They just don't share it, right? So who is this like team like between CIA and NASA that knows a lot about angels? Well, I don't know that, but I know the NRO is the ones that have the keys to this thing. Really? And why do you think that? Because they have the keys to all the satellites and all the eyes on the sky and there are the ones that every rocket when it goes up, right? They observe every aspect of that rocket for reasons, for mechanical reasons and for a surprise visit that happens pretty much every time they launch one. Do you think that rocket's a track UFOs? That's what I'm saying. Every time they send one up, it attracts them. And they'll come up and look at it if it has weapons on board. Does Tim Taylor know you on Musk? Yeah. Do they work together? For sure. Did Tim ever tell you that? Well, he mentioned his name, but didn't say work for him, but he controls all the launches. Controls all the launches. Tim does. He's the launch guy. He's the dragon. His console is called Dragon Control. Any controls all of the launches? He's the one. He's the one. And I'll tell what he does when they fire rocket up. They have these big ground-based cameras like on a World War II battleship where they sit on a gun and they could turn a handle and the gun would go around and they could control this thing they're setting on. Well, they have big binoculars like that. They can get on this thing and follow this rocket up. And they got it to about 50,000 feet. Then it gets blurry. So at that point, it's intercepted by WB 57. Run out of Houston by a good friend of mine, which is National Reconnaissance Office, works with Taylor. So his crew is up there at 50,000 feet and it intercepts the rocket. So they film it with seven cameras on that thing where it goes right on up. When it gets up to 100,000 feet, then it's intercepted by a one-of-fourth star fighter equipped with another seven or eight cameras on that. And so it trails it right on up into it runs out of sight of and then the satellites take it over. And the only ones that can look at the satellites are these NRO guys. Tim walks out of his control into a private room where all the screens are. So his eyes are on all that. Fascinating. Yeah. And he gets into that line of work because if you re-launch fever, I don't think he's traditionally credentialed or trained. Well, my friend from Houston told me he helped him get that position. And who's your friend from Houston? I can't say so. Okay. He lives right down the road from here on a big, a big ranch right out here. Well, I'd love to meet him. Yeah. We could figure it out. I'll show you a picture of him later. Okay. Cool. Wow. Fascinating. And because Tim also works at aerospace corporation, right? Yeah. And what do you think the link is between NASA and aerospace corporation? I know a lot of those guys are in our, okay. Interesting. And they carry blackberries everywhere they go. Blackberries. Yeah. Not iPhones, Android. They have all that, but they have blackberries. They do their business. Hmm. Do you think he's a time traveler? I think it's entirely possible. But, you know, honestly, I can tell you a story about him. Yeah. I sent my book. I think it made it in. I wrote 140,000 words and we only published 85 and that was what they recommended for the right size of book, right? But in one of the stories I talk about Tim, right after we came back from Zanesville, Ohio, we came to my house and we had this famous tree on my yard that caught fire. This video out on the internet, you can see Chris Blasso burning tree. Well we had this tree that just spontaneously combusted in the backyard and rained for two days, grounds wet, everything's wet. And my wife and I walk out the back door at nine o'clock and this poof had erupted into flames. She was shooting twenty-fifteen feet up through the tree and she put it out three times with a hose pipe. I can't read it night and itself. And so that got the attention of everybody. Tim wanted to see this tree. So he's at my house. I picked him up at the airport. He goes to my daughter's homecoming game that night. She was a little homecoming princess in the 10th grade. Now she has a double master from NYU so that's been a long time ago, right? We walk up to this tree and having just a good conversation and all of a sudden the one side of the tree is open where it burnt from the inside, the tree caught fire in the inside and burnt a hole through the side of the tree. And when we walked up to it, he walks up and puts his head right up to look up in the tree and all of a sudden this snake comes out of the tree, this silver snake. And it was perfectly, I'd never seen anything like it ever. It was silver as a silver automobile. It's a perfect color. He jumps back and he grass for air. Oh my God, just like that. He looks at me and he was shortward words and he said, he said, you know, my grandmother is full-blooded chaktao, India. And I went to school on a minority grant. My grandma told me if I ever saw a silver snake, it was part of their history, right? She said it would be a message from God. And he saw that and told me all about it, but I watched his reaction and then it got the best of him when that snake came out of that tree. And you saw the snake. I was standing beside him. What do you think the message could have been from God? It was a message for him to understand this whole thing was from God somehow and other. Hmm. And how does one of the most interesting things I wonder is if you read American Cosmic or talk to Diana Pasolka, it's almost like they visited the Ipatican Archives, he figured out a way in before she had gotten there. And then they were sort of celebrating him at the Vatican Observatory. Like, why would the Vatican Observatory know who a random mass emission controller? It makes me think he is not a random mass emission. He's not a random guy at all. He's just say he runs with the biggest Pousel. Do you think he has a connection with the president? Yeah, absolutely. He briefed Obama on me. That's where this comes from. He briefed Obama on me. It came from him with a dinner napkin from Camp David Maryland. And you're sure positive. And did he tell you that he briefed Obama? No, he didn't tell me that, but I know that's what it means. Because of the letterhead. Yeah. And where it came from. I'm a guyer who is, I think, former Intel and a friend of yours came on the show and he said, I, that cannot be fake. That definitely came from Camp David. Yeah. It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Blitzow. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David. There's only one way you can have that napkin because it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor. By Tim Taylor. And the only person that that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama. Oh my God. The letter to me is Ironclad Proof. That's Chris's story was taken all the way to Barack Obama. The Tim Taylor. Yes. You might think he was trying to throw you off the trail if he said I briefed the president and was bragging or whatever. But he didn't respond to that. He didn't respond to that. And right, I found it out. I didn't know what it meant. But I knew that he told me he just returned from Camp David. And it was a Christmas when he got to. How do we do? Yeah. Yeah. And he said I was at the dinner table with the president and handed me that. He said that. Yeah. Okay. So he didn't tell you that. He didn't tell me. He briefed him. But he did give me the napkin and this. Whoa. And this. Yeah. And you believe him. Yeah. And there is a knot too. Mm. You know. Have you ever caught him in a lie? No. Ever. I wouldn't know. Not that I can recall. Everything he said has either come out to be true or you're waiting for confirmation. Right. Right. Wow. Have you independently verified some of these 100% examples of that? No. It's just, you know, it'd be like, it's just so hard to pinpoint any one thing. Sure. Or like, I don't know. Some of the things about how the NRO or NASA work together. Have you been able to verify it? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Do you think that the big dip or Earth of Major has anything to do with the UFO phenomena? You've said that you've seen UFOs come from that constellation specifically. I have. Yeah. But, you know, I've learned since then. That doesn't matter. It's wherever I look. I can take you out at night and face one certain direction. You know, I have a hole to look through that direction and it'll come from there. We can turn in any direction and focus there and that's where to come from. So do you think the Vatican and the president and whoever Tim Taylor, you know, the hammer? Do you think they're all coordinating in some way? Maybe this archangel, the Vatican and the president or what do you think the connection is? I don't have a clue. I'm just telling you what I was told, right? Yeah. I've been told a lot of things, but he told me about the movie, the adjustment bureau and the story about the hammer. Yeah. Have you ever watched the Netflix show Dark by any chance? No. Do you think that you mentioned Tim's grandmother being Native American? So is he a time traveler? I know where he came from, right? As a young boy, which is? Well, he told me the story about his upbringing, his Native American grandma. And so I'm just answering that question. You ask earlier, is he a time traveler? I don't know. I just know he told me and shared with me his childhood. Did he say anything else about Thomas Townsend Brown? Not a lot. Other than we went there, we went to into conversation about his daughter and that he was actively, and I actually have the manuscript saved on my phone. He shared with me that he was working with her own on this book, on that book. Whatever happened to the book? I don't know, but I know I have the manuscript that they were writing. Oh, I would love to read it. Whether they were publishing it or ended up publishing it, I don't know if they did or not. What was it going to be about? My father, my father and his work and Tim's input to confirming it. And Tim definitely knew Townsend Brown. Yeah, he knew his daughter and daughter when I was there with him. This is crazy. This is so interesting. Are you still in touch with Tim? I haven't spoken to him. He sent word to me a couple years ago. I want to speak to him about Townsend Brown. He's a ghost. Tim. His whole life, I admire him because his real life is in medical, saving children. He cares more about the children and the struggles they have and diseases and cancers and finding curious for that. I'm sort of like, a part of me is hesitant to even ask questions about him because I don't like honing in on any specific individual. But when there's a specific individual who seems like they're embedded at the deepest levels of power structures that go as high as he does, they're claiming things to you and Diana Pasolka that seem kind of otherworldly. I just have to be fascinated. Both you and Diana have public followings. And so I'm like, okay, you have to know. Some of this stuff's going to get out and you're going to instill curiosity. I don't know if you know this, but I met him once for like 20 minutes. Oh, you did, well, like a FaceTime or whatever. Tim? Yeah, I met him. Yeah. It was so stupid in retrospect because now I'd ask him so many other questions. You were tongue tied at that moment. Not only tongue tied, because I was invested in this rocket company and they were struggling to get off the launch pad. And normally I'd separate the woo-woo UFO stuff entirely from like that world. I don't try not to mix them at all, but I was kind of desperate. And I was like, okay, I did read this book American Cosmic and I know that there's this guy and he claims to use consciousness to get the rockets off the pad. And so I'm like, if there's anything there, I know the guys I'm working with, I'm invested in, they're not thinking about consciousness as any sort of factor component. So that was the impetus for me to talk to him and we talked about that for Twain. The trippiest thing he said to me, and I don't remember exactly how he said it, but it was clear this was the implication as he said, for you to succeed in your rocket company, like you have to know what they want. And like Diana said it called it the sponsors, but it's the beings or whatever. Now you know why he has a private office and the only one with eyes on whatever comes up to that rocket. And he's the only one with eyes on that. Well he's the one that he's at Cape Canaveral in that room. Where does the nickname the dragon come from? I don't know if he has a tattoo on his arm of the dragon and when I was allowed to get on base, I had to get a tattoo right here. Just it was part of the mission. Really? And it was of a dragon. Yeah. And then you have the dragon capsule at SpaceX. I don't know. Do you think that's a coincidence? No, it was all part of it. Do you think so? When you were at Cape Canaveral, he was showing you around. Did he show you anything interesting? Yeah, a lot of stuff. Anything exciting or kind of beyond what you would expect just at a normal facility. I was like a kid right here of the most secure place on the planet. Cape Canaveral, the mission control, he told me it was more secured in the White House. Nothing is that secure. And last time I talked about this, I got in trouble, right? Really? Well, yeah. One particular thing I mentioned on Danny Jones podcast. Oh. Well, you got in trouble for change in the world. Well, yeah. I don't want to sit here because it got his algorithm killed on that. You said that the views were like, you know, it was like doing 50K a day. Oh, yeah. And then it cuts off. You speak to some rep at Google. And they're like, we don't know what the hell happened here. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And click the rate average V duration, which should basically define the video's performance. He goes the one other time I've seen this is with Jesse's David Grush video. Exactly. Performance fell off a cliff. So and he said that he said that my video with blood. So in your video with grush, neither of them broke any YouTube rules or had any internal red flags that he was able to see. Yep. And he goes, whenever this happens, which has happened one other time recently with David Grush, it's basically the floor above me that I have no access to. Yep. Something above my head that I don't know what the hell's going on. So what the hell is going on? Yeah. And he said that the video got totally like cut off throttled. Right. And he was confused. And Danny, by the way, is not like a dogmatic UFO believer at all. Yeah. It goes back and forth on the whole thing a lot. And he's apparently called this rep at Google. And Google said, you know, the only time this has ever happened and it's the floor above us. And a video's totally gotten nuked was Jesse Michaels David Grush interviewed. Yeah. Right. And that happened with me and I put him in touch with my friend in Washington in the CIA. And I said, look, it just killed this. And he got to the bottom of it. But he did. Yeah. And he figured out that there was actual possible obstruction with the goal. And from what I heard was something that I mentioned got the attention of the news and the news called NASA. And NASA's like, God, we don't want to talk about this. What? This is crazy. Well, because I mean, Trump just designated NASA as a spy agency. Well, and it's already, it's, you're already, you know, you're labeling a thing that's already been the case for, you know, decades. But this is just confirmation of that. That's what. Well, NASA happened with that video. I would tell you. It's still got what 1.203 million. A total ton of years. Do you think that NASA has other propulsion modalities? I think they've had it a long time. Really? I know they were working on it a long time ago, because I was asked to work on which way electrons move. Really? And what does that mean? And what is it when it's working on it? Back engineering machines. We're engineering UFOs. Yeah. Really? Yep. Are the UFOs like alien reproduction vehicles that like hover and then get up? They go into space or are they like high voltage chambers that are like portals like in the movie contact where you end up in some other dimensional space? I think it's probably both of that exists. I don't know. But, um, and you think NASA is sitting on this stuff? I don't know that NASA is necessarily, but there are satellite groups that keep it under wraps. It is so far buried. Do you think, according to Tim, there were two generals at the Pentagon that knew everything in which general? He didn't tell me. Interesting. Air Force generals. Air Force generals. See, when you go to NASA, the mission control, when you walk in there, it's a square building, with a lung hallway in the very middle. And when you walk down this hallway, it's glass, a glass on both sides, right? And you look to the right, here's all NASA scientists and launching at their consoles. And you look to the left, it's exactly the same, but it's all Air Force people. So they have dual redundancy, Air Force over here, civilian on this side, running air every launch and Tim's in the middle of all of it. And then once that rocket goes up, he disappears into this one little room that has eyes on it the whole time. What was the most interesting thing you saw with your own eyes that kept Canaveral? Probably, well, I learned some interesting things that I didn't share. I'm not on here, but I guess going in the crew quarters was the greatest thing for me, because when we got there, this building had been built like in the late 50s, when they first started Mercury and launching to the minute, right? And only a coordinate Tim, only 300 people had ever been in that building in all the years, only 300. And he said, only one president, no congressman, anyone. And he said, you know, don't go around sharing this because here I'm sharing it, because they might get upset while they're not allowed in this place. And those 300 people would include the staff that run the place, the din mother that's been there. I met her. She'd been at 35 years. And she has a small group of people, the daughter that's own, that lives there with the mom, the dad and the children. So those 300 people would be John Glenn and Armstrong and their family, right? So their kids and the wives and all. A very small group of people had been in there. And I got to tour the whole place and sit where they asked her not to sit and have the sit in the board room and go in the doctor's offices and sit where they put their spacesuit song. I got to look through all that and handle it. But I was told that when you leave from here, you'll never be the same. He said that every time that thing went up, when it came back down, something came with them. And it was still there. What came with them? Well, whatever the spirit is, a phenomenon, something intelligent. Wow. Is there. So like almost like a hitchhiker or tag along the fact or something, they would go up and then they'd come back down but be hitched with some sort of spiritual thing. Well, he said that. He told me that and that's why they don't let everybody in there. And so is your take? Because there's to me, there's something weird about moon landing. I think it's necessarily fake. Like that, you know, like full hoax or something, but there's something that feels very managed about our perception on it. What do you think actually happened? That's a big one because I've learned some things since about that. I've seen some photos of the man and some things I can't dare say. But what I saw makes me wonder is it is it real? Is it an illusion? Was it put there? It didn't seem any way that it was, it wasn't there but I said that it was set there. That's all I would say. They're very slow with the words. But I think that's the case. It's tidal locked. So you never see the dark side. It's one four hundredths the size of the sun, but four hundred times closer to the earth from the sun in this sort of yet perfect way. The conventional story of how it was made makes no sense to me. The idea that there was some sort of proto-earth in this Mars-like object, hit earth or whatever. It's massive object hitter. Part of the earth's mantle came out and formed this perfect cylindrical, prema facet. You don't need to be an expert in this stuff to know that that's probably not the case. And then parts of it seem hollow. There seem to be caverns in it. They put seismometers on the moon if you believe the face value story of Apollo 11, even conventional. Like nobody can argue with this. They put seismometers on the moon and it rained like a bell. And then I think Gordon McDonald, who's Eisenhower's space advisor, said the moon would only make sense if it were hollow or something like that. It's just a strange, it's a strange object. It is. It is strange. It affects our thoughts. You think it affects our thoughts? Absolutely. It does. Well, you have this sort of, you know, check it out. You hide, like, lunacy, right? We have a lunacy. We have a lunatic. That's where it came from. That's right. If you go to the Sheriff's Department, the Jail's fill up on the moon. It's fair enough. Yeah. And Mammy, you do have, you know, obviously women's cycles affected by the moon. You know, the idea that it doesn't affect, I don't want to go full astrology necessarily. But, you know, the idea that it doesn't affect, you know, ecological processes or biological processes is that's wrong. So then what is the extent of that effect I don't know. But something I sort of tends to make me think that, that, it's an illusion or it's something, I just can't say without getting it. What do you think it is? I think it's something about our soul. What about the backside of it? What do you think? Do you think there's some aliens there or beings there? I think there's something illuminated back there. What do you think is illuminated back there? I don't know. Is it like the John Lear, like, soul-catcher? No, I don't believe in all that. But, man. So what do you think is illuminated on the backside of the moon? I don't know, but I have to leave that. If you were to give a high-level riddle or hint. I don't know. I just think that the backside is nothing like the front side. If you find photos of it, if they're real, it doesn't look anything like the front side. And from what I've seen, there is something behind it hidden back there. And Tim seemed to think that it wasn't there by accident. Just the moon. Exactly what he told me. Was it by accident? Was it towed into place? That was one of the things he did. Was it towed into place? Yeah. That was one of the conversations I heard. Wow. Do you think, do you get the vibe that he has some metaphysical worldview that is more concrete? The average person you talked to about metaphysics. And if they speak in a self-assured way, they're probably full of shit. And they're either full of shit or they're really epistemically humble. They're like, I don't know. I take these things metaphorically. And so it's like one or the other. And then occasionally, especially if you're a seeker, you are, I am. You meet somebody and it's like you have kind of a more concrete understanding of what's going on over there. Right. Do you feel like he's one of those 100% that way? Do you feel like that? Yeah. And you don't think he was sort of conning you in any way or not? Well, I thought that some of the things he said flew into face of what I believe then. But now, years later, I thought it's changed on this thing. And so some of the things he was telling me makes more sense today. Do you think there's a Native American connection? A lot of people, I've interviewed Mario Woods on my show who is of Native American descent. And people say that, you know, if you have, yeah, that ancestry, you might be able to get in touch with this stuff a little more easily. Other people say that about our each negative blood. Do you think either of those things are true? I think there's a possibility with the blood. I'm not sure about that, but I do know that I was a book showed up to my house that was sent from some folks in the government, CIA, and said, read this. And it was the miss. And I can't remember the whole title, but it was the ancient miss and the lore of the Cherokee. And it was written by James Mooney in 1891. That's when it was published in 1891 by James Mooney. And the book talks about the Cherokee little people. It talks about the thunder boys. It talks about a missing time. It talks about all sorts of stuff in this book. When they gave me that, they were particularly interested if I had a Native American blood in my DNA. And so I went and had all that done to ancestry in 23 of me. I couldn't find out. I'm 99% Irish British, Scottish. So no Native American there. Have you ever seen a UFO in a hanger? Nope. You just seen it in space. Or on the ground. Do you think that the kind of security establishment in the US has UFOs in its possession, their reverse engineering now? Well, they're big liars if they don't because they've been saying it for years. Yeah, I really have beaten that drum right now. They are big liars. Same story for 50, 70 years now. We have this. We saw that. My friend saw it. I saw a letter. Here's another letter. I saw it. I saw it. That's all you hear. But you never see. Yeah, that's what's history. Never. Yeah. It's very... It's very... It's very... I'm sharing it. And we go out and we see it. But I'm not libeling it. Do you feel like... Because I think on Tron Ryan's show, Diana Pissolka, spoke about your experience almost as if you had been like messed with or something. Do you feel like you've been messed with or manipulated in any way or... No. I think the phenomenon has a way of doing things to trick you. You know, you hear Dr. Svolay write about the trickster. Well, that's not a bad thing. I think it's like the adjustment bureau. Same thing. If Jesse, if you want to go this direction, it might trick you to make you go in the opposite direction. So it's kind of controlling your path. So that would be... Yeah. I don't do with that. But you don't feel like the Intel world has tried to shade your perception of things in any way. I think they have. Okay. Yeah. They have from the beginning. They tried to make me believe in flying saucers and little green there. Really? Yeah. And I kept telling them, no, I wouldn't like that. Interesting. It wasn't like that. Who was trying to kind of implant those ideas? Hundreds of people within the government. I met hundreds. Really? And they all go back to that. You know, I got labeled a religious fanatic because I said it was spiritual. I've been saying it was spiritual for 19 years. And so they were really adamant about, hey, let's spin this towards this alien extraterrestrial thing. Yeah. Alien alien. What you're seeing is negative bad. Really? Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. That's not cool. No, it's not cool. So how do you explain that? What's happening with you there where you have these spooky people coming to your life telling you that what you saw as alien when you know it wasn't. And then you have somebody like Jim Simevian who's very high up at the CIA. It seems to prop. I assume there's a lot about a whole lot of national security things outside of the UFO issue. But the UFO issue, he's gone very deep on for decades. Right. And he's being kind of an honest actor and telling you, you know, experience what you experienced. Do you think he was, you know, honest with you? Yeah, Jim. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have a deep care for Jim and he does my family as well. And we've shared a lot of stuff. I know about his story and Debbie's his wife. And so you think they're factions like how do you make sense of the fact that you have one half of Intel world spinning your attempting to spin your story and like kind of manipulate you and then you have another half that just seems kind of like good-hearted. Well, it's kind of like this. There's a group of lower level guys that have a mission to do. Hmm, disinformation, push a certain narrative. But you know, the people I'm meeting are heads of their departments, not necessarily this low level guy I'm talking to head of the director of operations like Jim was at the CIA. He was James Bond. That's who he was. So director of operation. Yeah. Well, Jim was. Yeah. What is that like, winking of the, he ran the whole Northern hemisphere. Well, everybody answered to him. Yeah. That's who he is. Very powerful guy. And his friends, I've met a lot of from, you know, the deputy director and when you talk to these guys in private, they pick your brain and you start learning more that they're learning. They want to know. That's what I've come to the conclusion. You know, everybody's like, it's a sly up and they're trying to manipulate, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I've not been probably in as many of these rooms as you have, but I've been in some of them. And I'm fine. They're like, they're like, we're fans and they're like trying to piece stuff together through. I used to be so afraid. I would do certain interviews. I'd break certain stories and I'd be like, oh, I got too close to the truth. They're going to, they're going to come after me. And then now I'm like, oh, they're probably learning alongside me and like using, you know, the stuff I'm learning and through open source research like for their own chat or whatever. But for the most part, they're, they're, they're truly are people like us and they want to know, but there's a program of gazettes involved in the UFO world, keeping that going. But the, do you think is there some, because you met, you opened the book, talking about John Alexander. Right. John Alexander also seems to show when people experience paranormal things like the Hutchinson effect, you know, John Hutchinson, California sort of, you know, metallic equipment seems to hover in like, you know, malfunction around it seems to have like all these electromagnetic anomalies, emitting from his body. You, you know, other cases, John Alexander will kind of consistently show up. I think he's briefed on that. Like I think you knew about Rendlesham before anybody else. Yeah, he did. 100%. John is, what's his deal? John has been, let's just say he's probably the number one researcher and the paranormal world for the US government has been for many, many years. Yeah. His wife is work, study and religion as a part of this and he's been to 92 countries doing research and to everything from churches to ceremonies and Mongolia, the reindeer herders, the reindeer, the reindeer, the reindeer, the horses 100 miles. Do you think he has a pure agenda or do you think that he has an agenda to find the truth? But he does often, he'll see these things and then he'll kind of semi-debunk them. And I don't think he did in your case, but I think in other, like, you know, the Hutchinson thing, he'll show up and he'll be like, well, it kind of works at sometimes, but it's, you know, like if you read his writing, it's often, you know, it's not a good thing. Like, it's not as magical as you think, sort of like he kind of like, you know, but John's more in line of, he don't look at the physical thing as being the truth of it or the alien thing as being the truth of it. He doesn't see it that way. He's more about it's more, that's too easy. There's far more complex than that. This thing does, for example, in the 1800s, 1700s, go back and read all the reports on your FIs. People were seeing, I read a story of a sailing ship with glowing sails flying over London, and an anchor comes out and snags a chimney and breaks the top off of a chimney. Yeah. A boat, a flying boat, right? So here's these flying ships, uh, skyships they called them for many, many years. In fact, the first report that I've heard of in America was Aurora, Texas. It was a skyship that crashed into the wind, right? 1897. And they buried an alien there, you know, were they buried? Where? In my family, right beside my family cemetery. Really? Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. That is really tricky. There's a Masonic cemetery. What? So do you have other trippy things like that in your family history? Yeah, quite a bit of stuff. Tim was the one that started that research with me way back. And I had a, yeah. So Tim is sort of an heir in some ways to John Alexander, where he's also doing a lot of this sort of animal research. Yeah. But what's so interesting to me is he has a functional job at NASA, too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's part of his job. Wow. Do you think that space, like our space travel program is somehow related to studying these paranormal things? Yeah. How do you know that it's really? Well, you heard him talk about when you were speaking about creating an investment in a rocket company, it's up to them, right? I don't know. You know, I know the history of rocketry, you know, and I know Jack Parsons thought he was in touch with, you know, other beings and literally saw like what you could describe as a Nordic alien woman, you know, while he was testing rockets, you know, in California, in the Mojave Desert, I know that Tielofsky, the Russian equivalent thought he was in touch with angelic beings, Hermann Oborth, you know, the father, the German rocket program, all of them thought that. Thought they were angels, yeah. So but then I also know Elon Musk, you know, kind of dismisses the whole alien thing and how probably my or told me, and before I tell you that, we'll get back to the flying ships, right? In 1947, Kenneth Arnold sees these little chevrons flying about and they were kind of moving freely and, you know, half a dozen of them. The reporter says, well, how did they move Kenneth? He said, well, if you took a saucer out of the cupboard and you threw it and it skipped on the water. He said, that's the way they look with a reporter said, ah, Kenneth Arnold sees flying saucers, right? So it goes out on the news, AP wire, now billion plus people has it implanted in their brain. And for the next 50 years, what do they say? Saucers. Flying saucers, where'd they go? Yeah, and then they're... Where are they? Right. Then comes a triangle into 80s or 90s. All of a sudden, everybody's seeing triangles. Yes. And then they're not coming along in 2007. These big balls of fire come. Movements like, well, where are they? I said, I don't know. They wouldn't fly on saucers. They were light. They were like orbs. And so that kind of hung it. And from 2000 to the last 19 years, it's been orbs. So our perception of something celestial and in some almost like other world played, a tonic realm that we can't understand or comprehend is being sort of shaded by basically media, by like our... The memes that we have in our head. Right. That's fascinating. And to anybody, is this such a cool conversation to have with you? Because I think some people throw around the term like, siop with you and stuff. And I'm like, the fact that you're saying all this stuff is like so opposite of like somebody who's dogmatically like, you know, proposing the kind of extraterrestrial hypothesis. It's like, you're basically saying like we're in some limited, you know, epistemological realm or whatever. And we're seeing something that's unexplained. And that's a humble claim. I don't think that's... Yeah. And I'm not here to label it because I would be lying if I told you I knew. Yeah. Well, I can tell you, it's 19 years of patterns. I can tell you that I get a lot of people to call me that want to tell me their story. I've come, my book empowers these people. And I get this little lady calls me one night. It's just for an example. She's like, she said, I saw this ball of light go by my kitchen window. And I hear, she said that. She said, she's 80, so she said, I hear, tell. You're the person that would know about these things. I said, well, yeah. I try to help you, you know, so tell me what happened. She said, I was washing dishes and it came up to the window and it scared me in it one way. I said, well, what was going on with you right then? She said, I was washing dishes. I said, no, what was your life like? And soon as she said it, I knew it's the same story for 19 years over and over and over and over. And it's always the same. People start seeing this stuff. I had a near death. My daughter died. My mom died. My son died or something. Hmm. Horrible. Hmm. I think it's always that way. It's almost like, I think about it them showing up at nuclear sites, which they seem to show up at. And if there was some Archimedes lever point, point of most leverage to shift timelines on like a global scale, it would be there. And then in somebody's life, maybe you'd show up at peak highs and peak lows and sort of the, you know, peaks in the valleys or something. And I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if, well, is that anecdotally your case? I mean, do you think people, even in like kind of peak states also see them? Because that's been my anecdotal understanding there. Yeah, I think it's possible, right? But I do know that the majority of the people witnessing this now is different because it's coming. It's revealing itself and there's no stopping that. It's going to reveal itself completely. And what it's doing is cracking people's consciousness just a little bit. Make you think, you know, it may not convert that. It's a person, but they're like, oh my God, there is something out there. So it's expanding our consciousness. Do you think other people think that you're the Messiah? I've been asked to, yeah, but I don't see that. I'm just a poor guy that had, this had a hard time. Yeah. And it's not been easy. It's been a burden more than anything. And I'm just a messenger. I know that I can share this with people. And after I do, then it's yours. You can connect with it from then. So it's not like something that I have is something that everybody has the right to. Hmm. Do you feel like you have an understanding of metaphysics that's deeper than the average person? Is there some sort of thing that you can relay about how the world works? No, I'm still trying to pick up that. But in a nut in a shell, I know that we're not in control. That our thoughts are completely understood by something above us that knows everything about you. It knows your heart. It knows your intentions. And it will guide you or it will tear you down if you're going the wrong way. That's the trickster part of it. It is that bad. You know, it's intended for you to marry this person, not that one. It might do what it takes to get you to meet this person. Hmm. So fascinating. And it's your job to be receptive and to kind of ride the way or listen to the synchronicities. Yeah, that's what I do. I listen to the synchronicities. My job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. And I caught so much problem from the community in 2007 when this happened. Half my family, two thirds of my family, I quit speaking to my own cousins and family. And it was because they wouldn't believe me. Before I was being accused of messing with the devil, right? And so they actively got hard on me and tried to remove my children from me. That was early on right after it happened. And so I kind of took offense to everyone. And I made a vow then I'm going to prove them all wrong. I'm going to prove the world wrong. That's what I said. Made that and I worked on it pretty hard for 19 years of revealing something that nobody says is real. And what that is, I can't tell you with a hundred percent certainty. But I can tell you in 19 years of patterns and never no harm to me or anyone else that is experienced this. And I've shared it with thousands of people. Do you think the idea of disclosure is kind of a misnomer? It's the idea that the government can disclose some sort of like metaphysical truth that they have this asymmetric understanding of. Yeah, I think we're in post disclosure. Disclosure is not an announcement. They're never going to give you the secrets. You know, if they have a machine, you're not going to see it. And I wouldn't want them to because somebody else could get a hold of it and it could be terrible, right? So it's national security. They're never going to give you that. So they're just going to give a talk all the time we have. We've seen, we have disclosure. There's a one person at the time awakening. Suddenly, you see it's real. You saw an orb. Oh my God, what was it? I don't know what it was, but it wasn't an airplane. And it stopped and it came up to me and it flashed me and it went away. Well, that absolutely changes everybody's world paradigm. It just completely changes it and sets you on a different course. So awakening or disclosure is for those, there's a lot of people that's already diagnosed. And so I don't think the government's going to ever announce anything. They're just going to keep telling you we have this and we'll solve that and make people get curious and start investigating. What do you think people's relationship should be to your story? Because on the one hand, you were sure of Crohn's disease. And I know you've had some other physical challenges since then, but that's a really major thing that kind of you were alleviated by and out presumably linked to this kind of amazing event in January of 2007. Do you think people can experience spontaneous healings and should they go for that or should they go for the incremental kind of more deliberate thing? It feels like catching lightning in a bottle. How can that happen in a repeatable way unless Jesus is real or something and can heal us? Well, I said earlier, maybe we have our own power to heal ourselves. We just don't know it. Do you feel like you healed yourself in that instance? I think they healed me and I think they will. Or they can. They can heal you. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it happen in Australia over the phone. Long distance is it. And magic happens at that point. And I don't claim that as me doing it. I'm just a mediator God. I just present our picture to the happy. It's all thought and intention. Our thoughts are very powerful and our intentions. I know they are. They really are. Everything was once a thought and I think thoughts have a much greater effect on reality than just thought converts to action which produces this mechanical sort of pinball machine which ends up doing a thing. Which clearly something else going on that I think will be proven out by science. I think you're right there. Yeah. Do you think that there's a space program involving consciousness that's deeper than because you think about, there's this 17th century Swedish mystic, Ammanuel Swedenborg and he described going up into the cosmos and seeing all these stars and planets and you've had out of body experiences and you've been to the Monroe Institute. If I was forming some sleeper cell space program that might be able to traverse farther than just NASA nuts and bolts craft. If you believe, viewing is a real modality, you have to believe some sort of astral space travel is also real. It is real. So do you think there's some sort of vital program in the government that involves consciousness-based space travel? I think they've attempted that and still are trying to. They have to have. And you even watch Carl Sagan's contact and it's like, that's kind of what you're touching on. Exactly. Or you know, Christopher Nolan, you watch Interstellar and then you read The Physics of Interstellar by Kip Thorn and it's like, if anybody was kind of dripped some interesting info, it probably would have been, you know, Nolan. And it's just so fast, it's like this fifth dimensional space that, you know, where you can travel kind of maybe between timelines and then when you die, you're able to traverse that and it's sort of hard to talk about a lot of these things. But that's a big one. I believe when we die, based on the photo evidence I have, you may have some of that that I shared with Anna. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact, it's going to come out on our pod where she shows some really interesting photo. Well, you see photos with people in them, with children or animals. Where did I get that? How did I get those? And this was right after the lady came and at that time I didn't have a video camera. I had a cell phone with the flip phone, right? But I went out and bought a little pocket camera, a little systematic and I started taking pictures every night. I wasn't able to get anything before, but from that point forward I did. And it's like my dog died. I wrote about this in the book. I was with Tim. It kept Canaveral for a week. And some guys from the NRO and we were meeting and at a launch and had been there all week and it was Saturday. Launch finally went off Saturday, delayed all week. My wife knew I was coming home at Sunday morning or Sunday night. I was going to leave after the Saturday night, get up Sunday morning to drive home. So at 4 o'clock it was over. I said, Tim, I'm going to Fedville. So I got my car and I took off. Didn't tell anybody to drive all night long. All night. Pulled over to rest area 13 hours right from my house there. Pulled over and took a nap. 830 Sunday morning I drove in the yard. When I drove in the yard I knew immediately that my laboredor was dead. I knew it. I knew it. I can't tell you how I knew it, but I knew it. Just came right into my mouth. I saw it all. I felt it. My kids and family had buried her in the backyard three days before. Never told me because they didn't want me upset right. I was like my child, this 90 pound laboredor, a female named Nelly. I opened the front door and walked in. My wife just sleep at the front door in the living room on the couch. House full of kids. They'd been up all weekend. They had invited all their friends. And mom kind of was staying near the front where all the bedrooms were. Our little girl, she's the only girl right. So mom's doing, she's doing her patrol. She keeps any boys away from her. That's what mom's doing. So I walked in the door and I opened it. She looks up at me. I said, what happened to my dog? Her eyes got big. She said, oh my god, how did you know? I said, well, I felt her. She said, well, she ran out in the road and got run over by a car. And we buried her in the backyard. So I took and I thought about it all day. And that night I thought she don't know she's dead. That's how I knew it. Because when I turned off the road right where she was killed, it just kind of felt her. Saw her in my thoughts. So I took a little white candle. I went out to her grave and I lit it. And I told her, I said, I'll be with you again. Just go to the light. And she comes up out of her grave in a little ball of light and I took that picture. And that's how I got there. Wow. That's amazing. And you should have a copy of it. I would love to see that. Yeah. We could put that up. So what does that tell you? You know, what does that tell you? And I've got people, lots of people and children. In fact, I have a child. My wife and I lost a child. Well, four, but we lost a child. And I was out thinking about him. And this lonely orb, there it comes. And I took a picture of it. And there was the child. Yeah. In the orb. In the orb. And this is my screenshot. Wow. I'm going to say, yeah. Oh my God. That's a real photo. That's a photo of a child and always a ball of light. That's a real photo. Yeah. That is amazing. So what does that tell you? I believe that when I think that we're in a simulation or we're in this avatar that we experience time because of our body. But beyond the body, there is no time. And I think when we die, that we go back to that eternal place, which is in church, they tell you it's somewhere way, far away. But I think it's just around us. Yeah. Well, there's time is created by the mind and the body. And time is the most used now in the English language, but nobody knows how to define it without respect to the movement of bodies or it's always something defined relative to something else. So if you're doing that over and over again, then it has to be this soup that you're swimming in where you can't get out of it. Exactly. You're like in water. It's like this David Foster Wallace Beach where he goes, this is water. It's like you're a fish and water. You have no idea what you're in. We're in the stream of time. There's no way out of it. There's no way to talk about it. And really, there's no words for it. There's no words for it. That photo is amazing. Can we show this to like a NASA photo instrumentation person? Yeah, I don't care. A lot of them have already seen it. Okay. I was just to tell you how it is with NASA. I was in a Capitol Hill club when the hearing, the recent hearing that happened. And in fact, it was anabraiti and a bunch of those friends of hers and without using names. And we were having, or dursed with their Burleson and Anna Lennor. And afterwards we went out and did a sky watch on the library congress, right? We were up on the platform and suddenly a sword appears for 45 minutes. It did figure eights over the Capitol and the White House. So in Burleson saw it. No, Burleson went there. He had gone home. But Anna was there. There was. And a whole group of other people. They were exiled from PG&E power. Donna Roberts from the International Space Station. She was standing next to me. Others I can't say their name. But they've come out publicly this group. Excuse me. Tracy McGill. She's an analyst for the DOD, I think. Well, fascinating. So they all got to experience it. I would have in dinner. You're talking about NASA people. This guy walks up and he gets me a big hug. He said, Chris, I'm a huge fan. And he introduced me to his son. We'd never met, right? But he was one of the highest ranking guys at NASA. He walks up my hugs me and says, I'm a huge fan of yours. NASA is, yeah. So why is NASA publicly? It's their policy. The people there are just like me and you. It's so funny because you see them publicly. They're doing this thing on three eyedad lists. And the photo is the resolution of, it's like you're looking at a lamp post. It's like a street light or something. It's horrible. And the amateur astronomers are getting better stuff. And then privately they're going to use saying we're big fans. So interesting. And that crazy. It's a little frustrating. It's like, can you split the gap a little bit between your public and your private perception? One thing how to make how pub and my. We were loved him. My children loved how. Because he became, you know, my dad died in 2013. And he how came in 2008 and you just showed up at your door, right? Yeah, not on the door. He's just a guy that's right. So he'd come three or four times a year and stay a week at the time. And his biggest thing was my children. He would, they would bring school friends over and he'd have a big, you know, he loved kids. So he'd pull up, mass it on teeth and tech tights. And it was just a big party of science and he loved that. But how told me he died in 2019? He died in 2019. He was coming to our house with Thanksgiving. He ain't Katie. And he fell and hit his head and went and called him and never woke up. Right? But he told me right before he died. He said, Chris, I want to tell you one thing. He said, I've wondered for many years. He said, what this phenomenon is. Oh, I know all about it. He said it. You know, I've seen it all. He said, but we've always been on the fence of what it is we're dealing with. But he said, when I know now, to me is, he believed it was in Jellik. There were always on the fence of what it is. But he observed it with me a lot and saw its nature and how it would react to certain words and certain prayer. And was he religious? He wasn't religious at all, but he was toward the end of his life. He became very open and prayer. That'll make you religious. Tim Taylor had a conversion right at the Vatican where he converted to Catholicism. Exactly. It's fascinating. So that's a pretty distinct texture. Yeah, it takes you down that path if you interact with it. Well, there's an apocryphal quote that's often attributed to Warner Pisonberg. And he's this amazing physicist, but it was also in charge of the German nuclear program under the Nazis. But also, a much deeper philosophical guy and he regretted his role in that stuff. And he says, the first sip of the bottle of science makes you an atheist. But when you get to the bottom, you find God at the bottom. That's where hell was at the end. Yeah. That's what it sounds like. Exactly what it was. Yeah. That photo you showed me with the child in the orb, that looks exactly like in 2001 space Odyssey at the end of the movie where Bowman, he's going up on the ship and then he ends up. I don't know what happens, but there's this weird bizarre little scene. And you see the monolith and then all of a sudden it cuts to this baby hovering over the earth in this like orb capsule thing. And I watched that. I remember watching that. It's one of those things where I'm like, I am too unenlightened and dumb to know what this means. But I know it means something. And that's what a lot of the UFO topic is. It's like the sound of the one hand clapping, the Zen cone. You're like, and it just makes you want to go further. Right. Maybe something you're like, you don't quite know what it means, but you're like, that there's something about that. They're saying this. It's a, and if anybody knew kind of, you know, some deeper truths about reality, like I do think Arthur C. Clark, Stanley Kubrick, guys like that, what's happened into something deeper. And so that photo tripped me out because I'm like, what did they know? And was that photo, you know, somehow lining up with what they knew? I think they probably knew a lot more than they had to. And the government knows a lot more, but this, everybody that's anybody in the ranks wants to see this stuff, they want to know about it. Yeah. I believe it. Who wouldn't? Yeah. Does this stuff you know about the dark side of the moon point towards sort of a simulated world? Yeah. It does. Well, then you get into these things around like, why can't we have disclosure? You can't say that official. If you're in some like official government position, you can't, you cannot say it. I would, I want as much disclosure as humanly possible, but like, if you're Trump, it might be tough. That might be a tough one. You go up there on the podium. You go, we're in a simulated universe. All right. You're, you're, everything is, you're in a karmic whirlpool where you get stuck. You experience the same thing over and over again, but with a different veneer. Time is actually an illusion. And that veneer is just the changing of memes that are implanted in your head by some alien thing. Like, if you started to go deeper into that, where does that lead? Where does that lead? That leads to a very, you know, and I, I think we might be headed there anyways. I don't think we need authority figures necessarily to say these things. I think we're going to, I think what's going to happen is that basically the way I see this is consciousness is just one big unified field, right? It's all one. And everything that exists is in that one from the ghosts to the aliens or to the angels and to us. And I think we're in the process of rolling humanities, rolling into that next dimension. In other words, it'll be a world of where we all in it, where we see it more and it's part of our reality is shifting. And when it's so fascinating. It's so interesting. It's so fun to talk to you because I think a lot of people have said, oh, like it's like you're too open-minded or something is the, you know, the critique or something. I have a lot of critiques here all to me. So I don't take that personally. But I think so. I think if you believe in the Paris psychology stuff, which I do, that there's some sort of mind-matter connection. Absolutely. And I think there's a correlation between openness and your effect on the material world or like what you perceive as well. And so I think inherently there will be, at times, errors made due to that openness because you're sifting in this area that is so uncharted. Exactly. But you're also going to come upon really core, deep truths. And I don't know if you can have one without the other. And so you know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. I'm sure I've explored all sorts of crazy stuff. But in reality, I think my worldview is actually sometimes crazier than I can even communicate via the show. And it's really about catching people up epistemically and taking people through this rigorous, let's start with the foundation. That photo is real. It's been verified. You need to do that because we're in this materialist reductionist scientific paradigm. But and you'll make a lot of errors along the way. But yeah, it's this really kind of hard thing because you make one error and you get these kind of debunker skeptic types and they'll just hang on that one error for the whole. And it's they're seeing what they want to see. Well, the thing people give these debunkers and skeptics too much power. Yeah, but I don't even pay attention to me. They're just unimportant. Well, I think the thing that deflates them too is like, I'll admit, like I've gotten a whole ton of stuff wrong. Like, and I hope I hope you would admit that to me. I have. I changed, you know, we learned. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And as long as you can adapt with new information that comes in, you know, then this is all it's it's really new territory. So there's no book. There's no there's no vocabulary for this. None. It's all invisible and we have to create a vocabulary for it. And we got to put a story to it, right? As humans do that. So you constantly adjusting that as you go and pulling all the information together and down the road, you think, well, what you thought before is not correct, you know, so it could be different. So I'll leave an open mind to it. I try not to label it, but I will go as far as to say that it's been benevolent. I've seen healings from it and I know how it answers when I say certain words. It gets excited. Which words? The lady. Really? So you got to say the lady, the lady interesting. Yep. When you start talking about her and I can do this, I could take a group of people outside at night. I've done it over and over and over. Take a mic if we got a big enough group. This is pretty, it's gotten pretty simple because I shouldn't say it's simple. It's complex, but still it's happened so much that is this is pretty crazy. Do you think there are pockets, air pockets of consensus reality? And what I mean by that is like, do you think, you know the Mandela effect? Yeah. So this idea that, you know, a lot of people in the 90s thought that Mandela died in prison, which she obviously didn't, you know, do you think that reality might work more like that than we think? And so certain mystical experiences happen and the people with eyes to see and ears to hear experience it and then other people walk away and they're like, yeah, there's a thing that happened or whatever. Or they like will superimpose some prosaic explanation upon the thing. And reality itself is far more fractured, malleable and in the eye of the beholder than what is changing. It's constantly changing like the Mandela effect. You talked about one thing that surprised me is my wife and I've been married 43 years, right? So our honeymoon was in New York City. We'd never been there either one of us. We had a plan. We wanted to see the train station, Grand Central Station, right? So we go to Grand Central Station and we get photos and videos and we took a helicopter ride and we did all kinds of things to experience New York. And so I'm looking at old photos of Grand Central Station, right? We'll Google it now. It's not called that. It's called Grand Central Terminal and it says it's never been called that. But yet I got photos of Grand Central Station written on the table. You see it now. It says Grand Central Terminal. What's that about? Well, the fling stones, the baronsteen bears, all these things where people swear that it was like one way and then you look at the record and I should say there's another way. And it is this really amazing phenomena. Then you get into deeper studies like there's this neuroscientist wilder penfield and you realize that there is no way of distinguishing between false memories and true memories. And it shows this with the ability to implant false memories into mice and stuff. And then you get if there are these beings and any thoughts can be sort of implanted, you get into really weird ontological territory where the past and even Schrodinger himself would say a particle is measured in the present, you know, it might change its past. And you get into retro causality in quantum mechanics. There's obviously spooky action at a distance but there's also spooky action across time. It seems like if you have two entangled photons and two double slit experiments run with those, you know, entangled photons, it seems like photon B that you're doing the experiment with two days in the future. If you measure that and you don't measure the first one, the measurement of the one in the future is affecting the one of the measurement in the past. Exactly. There's a great book called Biosentrism that the sky Robert Leans are right about this stuff. So you get into really trippy territory where the past becomes the present is this constricted present and but it's like an hourglass where you have probable futures and probable pasts. And the present is this measurement sensor that is single line of code updating the past and maybe updating the future at the same time. And it's this very strange sort of model but you, there's no real way to argue against that other than physical artifacts. So if you have physical artifacts around an event happening, you can argue say this is evidence that this happened this way or this happened another way. If you have conflicting physical artifacts where you don't have physical artifacts, it's totally one word against the other word or you get into like numbers of people who believe one thing or numbers of people that believe another thing. We have no idea how reality works. We have no idea. We have a very limited, we are measurement sensors and so this idea that science is some ontological statement of truth. Like no, it's the map, it's not the territory. It's just, you know, we see like very limited scopes of reality and time is the weirdest thing of all. Yeah, that that as mess with me every since I went there and saw that now everything I dig up it says it was never called that. Yeah, grand central. Yeah, but it's on the wall central station. I was like, oh, of course, grand central station. Yeah, we're going to move away now though. It's not that grand central terminal doesn't even sound as good. Yeah, it's always been named that according to this. Yeah. I don't know what that means, but it was really, really opened my eyes to how weird this world we live in really is. How do you juggle, you know, a lot of these concepts might seem crazy to the average person. How do you juggle just facing, you know, relationships, issues, things in your own life versus these kind of deeper celestial metaphysical truths? Those two things seem kind of hard to juggle. I was talking to a friend yesterday and he has all these teachers, you know, kind of in the Eastern tradition. He's kind of his own mystic in a sense. And I think I can say this actually. His name is Duncan Trustle and he's, you know, I actually just met him. He's an amazing comedian, but I felt a kinship with him. And he talked, he said his teachers all said that, and these are like Eastern, you know, kind of Buddhists say that, you know, they know that. That the celestial realm exists, but they ignore it because what we need to do is here on earth, we have these, because it's kind of a karmic path laid out in front of you. So I'm sure a lot of people have this sort of escapeous orientation towards this subject where they say, oh, I will take me up on the craft, you know, so how do you reconcile those two things? I don't. I mean, it's like, it's just, it's mind-ending the whole thing. I'm still grappling with that, you know, to this very day. And I focus on right now my main focus is on the Rosetta Stone. Really? Why is your focus on the Rosetta Stone? Because I believe that I can find, I think I can get there. I think I know it's talking. I know it is. I know it's talking multiple ways. Not just telepathically, because that's hard to prove or explain, but I'm sure it's talking through frequency through the light, pulses of light, with the right sensors and even some sort of morse code or something. Multiple ways is trying to communicate. I've seen it. I know it. And I think one day we'll get there. You think the Rosetta Stone is trying to communicate with you? I think that phenomenon is trying to talk to us and to find that Rosetta Stone, you know, the language. I want to find the language of this. Of the things. Yeah. And it's just putting it out right now. It's talking. We just got to study it and I'm working on a way to do that. Do you think their language is discoveries? Like the discoveries we make? What do you think the languages do? You think it's literal symbols and hieroglyphics? Because people say on the crafts that they see these sort of hieroglyphics. Yeah. I've heard biblical texts and all of them too. And you think we'll be able to decode this? I think we can get actual real-time communication through the light and through sensors if we can gather enough data. How would we do this? We could do it in a quantum AI computer. And there's two of them that I could probably get access to. So you're working on this? I'm working on it. Have you decoded anything yet? Not. Well, we're working on it. It sounds like you have decoded a little thing. Some, some, yeah. Anything you can give us? Enough to get me going full-time. I'm saying anything you can give us as far as hints as to what you've decoded. Well, I just did I know it's there. And I think we'll get there in the next four or five years, maybe. Maybe longer. Do you think there's something special about the pyramids that we'll learn soon or something? Because you, I mean, one of your experiences was around the pyramids, obviously, how did the word get you to this? Well, I'm hearing that next year that something might be revealed from there. That will be. Well, with that getting ahead of what I was told this week, I've been invited to go down there and be involved in something that is going to release something that was hidden. Interesting. And what? Something under the pyramids? Possibly. Like a little energy grid thing. I don't know. They didn't tell me that. Okay. They just invited me to be a part in the Egyptian antiquities authorities or part of it. Fascinating. Well, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar, Doppler tomography scans of the structure under the copper chamber of the Giza pyramid. I can't say that's what it is. I can just say I got a call from the right people that wants me to be a part next year. Well, that's exciting. Yeah. Very interesting. I think something's coming from there that's going to be real interesting. Wow. Like changing. Oh, changing. Wow. Yeah. Danny Jones is funny. Danny Jones, I think, came into your interview with him. Maybe a little skeptical. But then he said he saw a dwarf with you outside of a diner or something. Well, he called me. He's like, I want you on the show. I'm like, Danny, I'd love to be on your show, but you got to do something for me. I want to come a day or two early and I want to make you a believer, not a skeptic, who's our interviewer. We'll go differently if you're a believer. And he said, okay, okay. So we flew down to my daughter and I and my wife. And we had dinner there in Clearwater. When I went to Indian Rocks Beach out on the beach and he had his assistant with him at the camera and I said, well, let's watch out of the ocean because I can get it out. It appears up out of the ocean when I ask it. Just like out of the sky, it comes up out of the sea. And suddenly here it came. Two of them. And he filmed it. We all filmed it. See, freaking out. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. We did that last week in California with some pretty amazing people. Wow. He also, Danny said, he, I think he cut a small part of your interview where you talked about a Neuralizer, like some like machine that erased your memory after seeing something. Yeah. I had to not talk about it. You're not supposed to talk about it. But there is something like that that you experienced. I saw the patterns on it. Really? Yeah. I mean, that's freaky if the government has something that I can do that. Well, the society can transmit chemicals through radio waves. Shhh. Can you think that you transmit thoughts through radio waves? Yeah. It's kind of creepy. Well, then I get all sorts of weird territory. Like what is the whole UFO phenomena, some paranormal plague from the thought transmission? What if you were to see this alien appeared right here and you saw it and you were supposed to? What if it can shoot you with something that would erase your thoughts? They would never remember. So you think they can do that? They have the aliens can do that or the beings can do that. You do. And why are you high-confiction in that? Seems like something where inherently if they can erase. Well, I kind of learned some stuff on that and I saw the patterns on it. Well, yeah. And you think they're real patterns? Well, it was you as petting off is talking about it. Damn. It's kind of crazy. It's a bit of a new way. It was stuffed away somewhere. That dangerous technology. So you could shoot you with a chemical drugs or anything from 100 yards. There's some people. A few people have come on my show saying things like that. I just I never know what to make of it because I'm like, it's just I don't know. I don't want it. I don't want that to not be true. I don't want that to not be true. It's from our original conversations. So with like Hal Papemire or Tim Taylor. Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. Yeah. Well, I can tell you the world is a weird place. I mean, just the fact that you went to Zinesville, Ohio. Did you learn anything else about Townsend Brown while you were out there? I never knew who he was. And until I got to Zinesville with Tim and then he began to unfold who he was and how he was working with his daughter to finish a book about her father and I learned the whole story as much as he would tell me about his having visitors come and land. Did Tim Taylor believe that Townsend Brown made real anti-gravity breakthroughs as a scientist? I can't tell you. He believed that or not, but he felt it strong enough that he was. Yeah. I think he. I'm speculating. Sure. Have you heard other stories of experiences being shown a piece of metal and basically evaluated to, you know, to see how they react to the metal? He told me that we're only, he'd only ever seen two other reactions. Did he mention who reacted to the metal? He said, he said, but it was nothing like what I saw here. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a story of Warner von Braun showing Yuri Geller, a piece of metal and he says it's not from here. Warner von Braun takes me into his personal office. There is a safe in the office. He opens a safe. I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color. Pulse it out. It's not heavy. Says, Yuri, touch this. Tell me what you feel now. I put my hand on it and I say, Verna, this is not from here. He says, you're right. This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet. You know, I'm mind blown because as a child, I used to sneak into movie theaters. In Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life. And this is coming from the mouth of Werner von Braun. Exactly. I saw some things about this metal. I had a lot of photos of it. I had to delete the classified right. But I've seen some of it in real time on a lich on the microscope. And what I saw, there were different types. But it was moving. The one piece, I have a picture where it looks like a universe swirling around and around with all the galaxies and stuff inside. That's what the metal, the piece from Zainsville cut out a little sliver. That's what it looked like. Actually moving. This other piece I saw was red. It appeared red. And it were thousands of little blocks, little square blocks and they were self moving and stacking themselves. They were moving in the material. Was it like replicating or something? What? They were moving in the material. Yeah, this material is like living material. And this is from Zainsville or what was the piece I saw? I saw it. It was from Zainsville. The piece, not the red, I don't where that came from. But the green, I'll show you the green. What? I'll show you the, I don't have the video up, I'd have a snapshot of it. I want to see that. That is wild. Moving like a universe swirl around and around. And the elements in that metal, I was told I had 51 elements in it. And the most classified, most, we can only blend at that time. He told me about 15 elements. Humans could only figure out how to make 15 elements blend. But this had 51. One of the elements was human DNA. And he's like, how'd that get in there? And plutonium. Who puts plutonium in metal? We plutonium, human DNA was in this metal. And plutonium? Yep. What? And he's like, how did they put human DNA in metal? And then they figured out in zero gravity how to bond ceramic to metal. And then they were able to put human DNA into the ceramic. And now your hip joints and all that, they don't fail anymore. To solve in our medical devices, nobody realizes it. As NASA's... Because my understanding is most manufacturing and space initiatives haven't succeeded. Like there's a company called Made in Space. And it was always this kind of academic project. And it never quite got off the ground. But you could, you could in zero G, do all sorts of things that you can't on the ground. Right. So, but you're saying there might be some secret stuff going on. Oh, sure. Interesting. Absolutely. But they were able to bond ceramic to the metal and human DNA into the ceramic. But they couldn't do it. Whoever did it, however it was done, we can't duplicate it. Wow. Wow. Well, Chris, this is a blast, man. I love speaking to you. And I think we could go on all day. There's so many threads, I feel like I need to follow up on just from this conversation alone. So we'll have to run it back and maybe I can come to Fayetteville. I would love for you too. That'd be a blast, man. I appreciate it. It should come. In fact, maybe we'll get you to the coast like on the beach. Yeah. For one, a couple of three nights and we'll get a group there and blow your mind. That sounds amazing, man. I count me in. Absolutely. Thank you for coming to Austin, Texas. I'm on such short notice and you travel a ton. And so just coming out here for a day really means a lot to me. Believe it or not, in the last three weeks, I left Fayetteville, North Carolina. I went to Orange County. That was Sammy and a group of guys. And then went up to Hollywood, met Margot Robbie and some other people. Left there, went back to North Carolina, dropped my wife off, flew back to New York, met some people there. Took a train down to DC, met a whole group of met Anna and some others there. Then came home one day and I'm back here. It's been just burning the road up for three or four weeks. Wow. That's why I called you last night. I was so exhausted. I'm like, I'm tired of being tested. We're out of bin here last night with you guys. Going to dinner or sky watching or something. Yeah. No worries. Well, this is really fun. And now we'll do it again and I'll come your way next time. And that's a crazy schedule for somebody who's already gone through all the stuff you've gone through. So I don't in here. It goes for the next 18 days. I'm back to New York, to Pennsylvania, to DC and in New Wilmington for the World Forum. And yeah, I want to make sure I plugged the World Forum. What is that? It was created by the Kilgorebichoff back in the 90s. In 95 to 2000, it was a five year event that ended up in New York City when they dropped the ball. Bono was there. You too, they did the opening. But it was the leaders of the world basically all came together to talk about the Y2K because they thought the world was in trouble. Right. We had to have a conversation. So now for the next five years, this year until 2030, they're going to convene the World Forum again. And it'll be Abby Love speaking, Dr. Diana Hensy-Powell. And there's about 30 or 40 speakers. And they'll be, we were going to have it in DC at the Omni Shores this year. But because of the travel and the flights and also we're going to make it virtual this year. And I'll be speaking on their timer to put my big thing is on the 14th of the 15th, 16th and 17th, we're going to have a group down on the beach at Wrightsville. About 40 of us doing a sky watch and we're going to broadcast it through the World Forum to the world. Yeah. Have to. All right. We'll go check that out. Buy UFO of God. And yeah, keep checking out cool stuff that Chris does. And I really appreciate you being here, man. Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been too long, right? It's been way too long, long time coming. But you know what? Things happen in their time. And I think there is the questions and the conversation we had this time around is going to be, you know, it's much better than maybe what would have been a year and a half ago or something. I've learned a lot since then. And I've learned it. I don't know anything. Right. Same with me, man. That's the deeper I get the more I'm confused. Yeah. I say it all the time. The more I learn the less I know the right. Well, that's that's literally true because if you think of your knowledge base as say it's like a sphere, the sphere grows and then the questions are the space around the sphere. That's the questions are going to grow at an exponent of the sphere growing. And so the more you know, the more you know you don't know. And so yeah, I think the most knowledgeable people I know are the most epistemically humble and they're like, I don't know. You know, because he just gets more and more confused. It does. Like I say, there's no language for this. No. Each step you've got to come up with something different. You know. It's like if you're getting, if you're going into kind of higher dimensional spaces or like where there's more variables and more information, you do just have to have a better sensor. Like, you know, you need to be able to audit yourself better. Exactly. So as long as you can do that. I learned that a long time ago. You know, just admit you don't know. You know, don't label this thing. And I try not to. Because I can't tell you 100% certain anything. None of us can. Nobody can. I can tell you it's magical. It's been beautiful. And it's real. And I'll leave it at that. And I can share it with others. And if I can't, my children can. Yeah. They have it in them this way. Do you think there have been any attempts to censor you on any other media or podcasts? A lot. So like, like how so. And what's the motive? And yeah, and what's an example and what's the motive? I think that there's the narrative is this dark and ugly and evil, evil, but a long. Yeah, but you have such a positive healing story. And that's, wow. And then oh, it's what they want it to be. Dark and ugly. Don't mess with it. We might lose control of the people if you mess if they don't like me sharing this. That all. Mm. Mm. I've been told that a thousand times. Yeah. I've been told two or three times you're you're doing disclosure. Yeah. Don't do. We're going to do is you're getting ahead of us. Yeah. Any any examples of censorship that you've like Danny Danny Jones. Really? That video and a whole lot more which what what did Danny oh, Danny Jones is the video is getting throttled. Yeah. Yeah. That was censorship. That thing was going to hundred hundred fifty thousand. Well, specifically that you think got it. Not that. That was me mentioning about some technology yet. Mission control. Okay. Okay. And I don't want to say that again. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Got it. And that's crazy. You backtrack you kind of are a backchannel. Then you figured out that NASA was literally censoring. Yeah. Crazy. Oh, Google whoever's controlling that. Yeah. Well, they sent the word. That's what I was told there. There has to be a connection there. It was about a technology. Mm. Yeah. I mean, a maculate constellation, you know, which came out in the shell and burger, you know, testimony, you know, this, this November, 2024 hearing. A maculate constellation had like a search spike when David Grush came out and I think August or September of 2023. So it's like, how do you, you can't make that up? Oh, right. You know, and if that's the case, that's like, you know, kind of what happened with me. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So it's like, if you're telling me that Google doesn't have some sort of backdoor around special access programs being named, you know, connection with the DOD around that. You're crazy. You're the conspiracy there. Come on. Yeah. And it happens to me all the time. Yeah. I would have sold twice as many books already. Going to you. Mm. They've cost me a lot of book sales because of um, um, chat abandon or, yeah. Well, I think you're, I think it's piercing through. I think, I think, you know, a lot of people love your story and are reading your book and, you know, whatever censorship may or may not be occurring. I don't think it's really, you know, hampering you in a, in a serious way. Right. Well, we're pushing through it. Right. Yeah. They can't keep the light out. Right. The light gets too cracked and yeah. Well, that's this whole, this whole subject. It's like, you know, you do, don't, don't take my, don't distrust everything I say or you say or anybody else. Like the, the world is, I think, shifting in this sort of a hundred percent. It's a serious way in like, you know, I fundamentally believe that and I see it and I feel it. So that's that new knowledge that's coming. Yes. One that now. Thank you so much Chris. Absolutely. Thank you, brother. Cool. Absolutely. All right.