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I'm Rachel Dinnon and today I'm joined by historian and author Dr. Nicolatallis, an expert on 16th century history and author of books including Young Elizabeth and Crown of Blood. Today we're stepping back into Elizabeth I's early life to understand how her formative experiences shaped the queen she would become. Nicola thanks for joining me today. It's great to have you on the podcast. It is great to be here with you Rachel. Thank you for having me. You're very welcome. So before we delve into Elizabeth's childhood, I want to ask you what is it that has fascinated you in your career about Elizabeth. Give us a little pot in summary. Well I think what's really interesting about Elizabeth is when we think of her now, we and indeed we're going to be talking about her today as Elizabeth I because we know how Elizabeth's story ended. We know that she went on to become one of England's most iconic queens. But what's fascinating to me is that for so much of Elizabeth's early life and her formative years, she had no idea that Queen Shiplay in her future. So in many respects, she's almost like an unexpected queen and I think that that is one of the reasons that makes her so iconic. That's right and we'll get onto some more of that later in this podcast episode. But to start off, to understand the woman who becomes Elizabeth the first, we need to go back to her childhood and we have to understand the context that produced her. So can you tell us a bit about the world that Elizabeth was born into? It's a very turbulent world. Elizabeth is born on the 7th of September 1533. She is a disappointment to her father, Henry VIII, in many respects because he had pinned all of his hopes on Elizabeth being a boy. And in fact, all of the astrologers that Henry VIII had employed to predict the gender of his child all except one actually has said that yes, this child was going to be a boy. So you can imagine his disappointment when actually Elizabeth is a girl. And this was particularly disappointing for Henry given that he had moved mountains to marry a belline Elizabeth's mother. And in the course of this, he'd separated from his first wife, Catherine of Arrigan. And he had also separated from the Roman Catholic Church and set himself up as the head of the English Church instead. So this is a very, very tumultuous and uncertain time in England's history that's really rife with factions. Amblin is incredibly unpopular. Catherine of Arrigan is still alive and has a lot of support. So there is a lot of uncertainty and a lot of hostility at the time of Elizabeth's birth. And the stakes, as you say, are high. Henry wants his heir. He wants the male, but along comes Elizabeth. So moving to May 1536, Elizabeth's not yet three. And her mother, Anne Belline, is executed on the orders of Henry. What does this mean for Elizabeth? Well, it effectively means that she is no longer the most important royal child in the country. She is declared illegitimate and she is deprived of her place in the line of succession. So she is still the king's daughter, but she is no longer deemed worthy of succeeding to England's crown. So in political terms, all of Elizabeth's value has vanished at the stroke of the sword that severed her mother's head. And we have, for the rest of Elizabeth's life, we have virtually no record of her talking about her mother. Do we know what she felt about Amblin? Is there any indication? Yeah, so I think in this respect, we have to think less about what Elizabeth said and more about what Elizabeth did. And there are some very subtle indications in some respect as to what she felt about her mother. And I think that really she did feel a sort of resonance with her and a warmth for her mother. And we see this in the fact that she promoted her mother's relatives. So when she became queen, she was surrounded by bellines, by carries, who were the relatives of her mother's sister Mary-Billin. So she keeps those who were linked with Anne very, very close to her. And she also adopted Anne symbol of the Falcon badge. So we can see this on some of Elizabeth's belongings, for example. And I think perhaps most touchingly, we know that at the end of her life, Elizabeth had a beautiful ring that contained two hidden portraits. And one of them was the queen herself, Elizabeth. And the other is a woman who was almost certainly Anne. So I think that this was probably a very personal keepsake that reminded Elizabeth of her mother and ensured that she was always close at hand. That's really lovely. It must have been a really interesting time. Well, her growing up in court not only hearing bad things about her mother all around her. What did life look like for Elizabeth as an illegitimate princess? Obviously, her mother's gone. She's now a legitimate. What did life look like for her? In terms of Elizabeth's daily life, very little would changed for her. She was raised in a nursery household largely away from her father's court under the care of her own household. But we know that Elizabeth was a very, very perceptive child and she recognised the change in her status almost instantly. And we know this from the account of Sir John Shelton, who oversaw Elizabeth's household, who reported that Elizabeth had basically gone to him one day and said, how haps it yesterday, lady princess and today, lady Elizabeth. Elizabeth was very, very acutely aware of her royal blood and her status. That is something that would have been drummed into her from the moment of her birth, from the moment that she could walk and talk. So yeah, she is very, very conscious of that. But she does still continue to visit her father at court. She continues to exchange gifts with him. She attends several of his wives, because of course she has four stepmothers who come and go in relatively quick succession. So to all intents and purposes, life hasn't changed a great deal for her except in terms of her title and the way in which she's addressed. She's illegitimate, but she's still very much present at court and in the royal household. You mentioned Henry D. Ate there. Do we have any understanding of what Elizabeth thought about her father? I mean, this is the man who ordered the execution of her mother. Yeah, and that's a really interesting question. And I think we know that in later years, Elizabeth does come to revere her father greatly. One contemporary says that she prides herself in her father and glories in him. And I think that Elizabeth probably actually disassociated her father from the execution of her mother. I think she probably actually blamed Thomas Cromwell, who was almost certainly the brains behind Ambulin's fall. And we do see that we have one surviving letter from Elizabeth to her father, which was prefaced in a New Year's gift. She gave to him in 1546. And in this, Elizabeth refers to him as, you know, the higher mighty king, Henry the eighth is very clear that she's trying to get into his good books. And let's face it, she was in a world where her whole status, her whole survival and being depended on being in her father's good graces. That was really, really important. And in this letter, she identifies herself as being Henry's daughter no less than six times. So she's very, very keen to remind her father that she is his daughter, that she is here. And this letter, this prefaces a New Year's gift, as I say, that she gave to Henry of a translation of her stepmother Catherine Pars works. And this is in three languages, Latin, French and Italian. Elizabeth's 12 years old at this time. So she's also really trying to show off to her dad. And to make him aware that she is worthy of his attentions, she's worthy of being his daughter. So I think it really sort of highlights Elizabeth's vulnerability where her father was concerned. It's a very, very fragile relationship. But I think that in many ways Elizabeth does sort of look up to him. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, she's illegitimate. She's a royal still. And she felt this need to be like, I am Elizabeth, I am your daughter. I want that approval from you because I don't have it officially. Exactly. Yeah. And she doesn't have a mother anymore. So Henry is all that she has. What about the other influences in her life that you mentioned her stepmothers, for example, how did they influence young Elizabeth? Well, I think their states come to influence her very greatly because by the time that Elizabeth is nine years old, or eight years old, really, she had gained and lost three stepmothers in relatively quick order. Jane Seymour dies in childbirth. Anne Cleaves is divorced and Catherine Howard is beheaded. So I think that by the time her father married Catherine Pa in the summer of 1543, Elizabeth was desperately craving stability. She, I don't think had a particularly close relationship with any of those earlier stepmothers. And I think that that's not necessarily a matter of personalities. It's probably timings because none of them were there for very long. But it's very clear that when Catherine par arrives on the scene, she takes a very, very close maternal interest in Elizabeth. And Elizabeth reciprocates with warmth and love. And I think that this is sort of the attention that Elizabeth has been craving because Henry D. Ais is an absent father in many respects. He doesn't really have a great deal to do with overseeing Elizabeth's daily life. So suddenly Catherine Pa is here. She begins writing to Elizabeth. She recognizes that Elizabeth is very academically gifted. And she really does her best to nurture this. So it's in 1544 when Elizabeth is just shy of her 11th birthday. But for the first time, she's appointed a male tutor of her own. And this is almost certainly something that is done under Catherine's influence. And Elizabeth begins to really, really thrive. So it's very, very clear that Catherine has a very, very positive impact on Elizabeth's development. And also her confidence, I think. Was that type of education normal for someone of Elizabeth's standing? You mentioned before she was translating three languages and things like that. Was that the norm for a child of Elizabeth's status? It was beginning to become the norm. So in the past women's learning had been very limited, somewhat frowned upon. But times were beginning to change. The world was changing a great deal. We see the onset of the Renaissance, which introduces all of these new ideas. And women's education begins to be encouraged. And we see Elizabeth's half-sister Mary had received an excellent education. And so if Elizabeth was to make her mark on the world, it was essential that she should also have a similar education. And it is something that she really did thrive on, I think. And as I say, she was very, very gifted, particularly in terms of languages. Apparently, she actually spoke eight by the end of her lifetime. So it's something that clearly she had a great talent for. And I imagine that intellectual curiosities helped her when she did become queen later on. So I want to move on to her path to the throne. Her reach to the throne was not simple. She was illegitimate from the age of three. But was the end of his life, Henry VIII had this change of heart. And in the third act of succession, both Elizabeth and her older half-sister Mary were restored to the line of succession. Why did Henry take this step? What prompted that? Well, it isn't a matter of sentiment. Unfortunately, it's more a political move. And this time, Henry was preparing to invade France, she does in 1544. And he was basically making preparations for the future. And the idea behind restoring both Mary and Elizabeth was really a safety precaution in case the king's son Edward didn't marry and have children of his own. Henry needed a backup plan, basically. And Mary and Elizabeth were that backup plan. What would have been the alternative if he hadn't put them in place just as speculative? What was the risk there? Well, it's quite interesting, actually, because pretty much all of the candidates were female. So if Henry hadn't restored Mary and Elizabeth, then he looked towards the line of his younger sister, Mary, who had, first of all, briefly been Queen of France and then married Charles Branden Duke of Suffolk. And Mary was the grandmother of the grey sisters, who faded grey sisters. So they were the alternatives. Yeah. Should Mary or Elizabeth not happen to succeed? So obviously, Henry passes and Elizabeth's younger brother succeeds the throne as Edward the sixth. What do we know about Elizabeth's relationship with her brother, Edward? That relationship was very, very close. And I think it was probably one of the most important relationships of Elizabeth's childhood. There was only four years between these two children. And they both had a lot in common because they'd both lost their mothers at a young age. And we know that Elizabeth and Edward shared a nursery at times during their childhood. And Elizabeth almost took a proud older sister role where Edward's concerned. So we know, for example, that she embroidered shirts for him, she wrote him letters. She was very, very fond of him. And of course, they were bonded by their religious views as well. So yes, it's a very, very close relationship for Elizabeth. She must have been very sad when he passed away in 1553. Can you explain, Edward died relatively young, a think of tuberculosis? Can you explain what then happened with the succession? Yeah, absolutely. So as we've spoken about, Henry the eighth had said or had declared that if Edward were to die childless, as is indeed the case, then the next in line to the throne would be Elizabeth's half-sister Mary and then Elizabeth herself. However, Edward was a fervent Protestant. He'd spent the entirety of his reign really revolutionising the English Church and placing it firmly in the realms of Protestantism. And he was eager that Mary, who was an ardent Catholic, shouldn't be given the opportunity to undo all of his good work in the cause of religious reform. But he recognised that he couldn't exclude one half-sister without also excluding the other. So so determined was Edward to ensure a Protestant succession that he draws up in his own hand this famous document, my device for the succession. And in this, he attempts to overturn the provisions for the succession that have been put in place by Henry the eighth. Mary and Elizabeth are completely excluded and instead Edward names his Protestant cousin Lady Jane Gray as his heir. Unfortunately for Jane Gray, that doesn't go particularly well. She is an unknown entity in the realm. She's very close in age to Edward. She's probably about 16 or so at this time. And she has been spending most of her life living in Leicestershire. So most people in the realm don't know who she is. She certainly doesn't have the same sort of profile or popularity as Mary and Elizabeth as the King's Daughters. And so support for Jane does fade at an alarming rate with the result that after nine or 13 days, depending on your opinion, she is deposed and Mary becomes queen in her stead. You've saved carefully for your future, your plans, your peace of mind. Now there's good news. FSCS Protection for your savings and current accounts has risen to 120,000 pounds per eligible person at UK authorised banks, building societies and credit unions from the very first pound, right up to 120,000 pounds, it's all protected. So you can focus on what matters with confidence. See what it means for you at fcs.org.uk, your savings, FSCS protected. I want to zoom in on Elizabeth's relationship with Mary. So their bond, a bit like Edward and Mary, has been quite challenging from the very start. I mean, Mary's the daughter firstly of Catherine of Arrigan, who Ann Bolin became the second wife at Catherine of Arrigan was the first wife, but then more significantly perhaps the religion question. Mary is Catholic. Elizabeth is Protestant. Do you think with all of those considerations, was it ever possible for Mary and Elizabeth to have a close sisterly relationship? Unfortunately, I think despite their best efforts, they probably were doomed from the start. I think Mary Harbord, such a deep loathing for Ann Bolin, understandably, Anna treated her very badly, but I think that as Elizabeth grew and began to demonstrate more physical characteristics in common with her mother, and we can see more of Ann in terms of her personality as well. I think that this really began to royal Mary, and it began to reawaken some of the ghosts of the past. So Mary definitely did try her best where Elizabeth was concerned. She cared for her very greatly when she was a child. There's no doubt about that, but I think that ultimately Elizabeth's parentage or her mother in particular really doomed that relationship to failure from the start. And can you tell our Watchers and Listeners how Mary came to the throne? We had Lady Jane Gray. How is it that Mary is crowned? Well, it's quite interesting because it's a bit of a common misconception, I think, that Lady Jane Gray's reign was doomed to failure from the start. But actually to begin with, all of the odds were very much stacked in Jane's favour to the extent that Mary's supporters were urging her to flee abroad for her own safety. So it does look as though Mary is going to have to find some other form of life, some other role for herself. And she, to her credit, isn't prepared to accept this. She doesn't think it's right for her father's provisions for the world to be overturned. And I think it shows a great strength of character where Mary's concerned. She really sort of placed her strengths because when she had heard that Edward was dying, she fled to East Anglia where she was a great landholder and very, very popular. And from there she was able to really rally a great network of support. And there were a series of mistakes made on the part of Jane's supporters as well that Mary was able to really capitalise on. But really, she builds on her popularity. She is a queen of the people. And it is the people that really come through for Mary with the result that on the 19th of July 1553, so not long after her brothers died, she is declared queen of England. How does her relationship with Elizabeth unfold from this point? How do tensions grow between the two? Yeah, it's really interesting because throughout the coup to make later Jane Grey queen, Elizabeth, her voice goes completely silent. Probably wisely. Yeah, very wisely. Very in keeping with Elizabeth and what we know of her actually. And the fact that she is the younger sister really plays her advantage because all eyes are on Mary. So she doesn't do anything. She watches to see how things play out. But then as soon as Mary becomes queen, Elizabeth waste no time in writing to Mary to congratulate her and to engrave it herself. So she recognised that her safety and her position depended on Mary now, all of a sudden. And so she was really keen to be seen by Mary's side. And to begin with, the sisters do put on a united front. So when Mary arrives in London to take possession of the capital for the first time, Elizabeth is there by her side. They are sisters and Mary is very happy to have Elizabeth there. But there are already tensions, partly because of religion, but also there are people who begin whispering in Mary's ear that her younger sister is a threat to her because of course, Elizabeth is now the heir to the throne. She's 20 years old by contrast to Mary's 37. So she's much younger. She is a figurehead for descent against Mary's rule, partly on account of the fact that Elizabeth is a Protestant where Mary is a Catholic. So we can already see that the seeds of discord are beginning. Yeah. I mean, the hostility became so great that Elizabeth is then accused of treason. Can you tell our listeners about why it's rebellion of 1554? What happened there? Yeah. So the rebellion is actually orchestrated under the auspices of a gentleman from Kent called Sotomous Wyatt. And it is a response to Mary's decision to marry the Spanish prince, Philip. And there is a huge outcry about this in England, partly because Philip's a Catholic, but also because he's a foreigner. And there are great fears about this. And Thomas Wyatt decides to orchestrate this rebellion in order to protest against the Spanish marriage. But there's more to it than that because in the process of doing so, he and his co-conspirators also decide to depose Mary and set Elizabeth up in her stead. And it's one of the million dollar questions as to how much Elizabeth knew about the wire rebellion. It's a really tricky one to answer because she was far too clever to incriminate herself in writing. No evidence. No evidence. No, absolutely. She was very shrewd. But she did have relationships with some of the plotters and Wyatt did later confess to having written to Elizabeth. So I think that perhaps she was aware of what was going on, but didn't inform Mary. Maybe turning a slight blind eye. Exactly. And aware of the implication. Yeah, exactly. Within months of Wyatt's rebellion, Elizabeth finds herself in the Tower of London. She's suspected of plotting against her sister. She's found herself quite horribly in the very place where her mother, Anne-Belin, is executed. What was this time like for Elizabeth? Well, I think that this is the period of Elizabeth's life certainly to begin with when she first arrives at the Tower when she is genuinely in fear for her life. I think to begin with, she does think that there's a possibility that she's going to die. And I have to say that I think the fact that she is imprisoned in the same apartments that her mother was, I think that's very cruel. I think that's a deliberate strategy on Mary's behalf to try and torment Elizabeth and to weaken her resolve. And we know that Elizabeth is, she's very, very anxious at this time. She is heavily reliant on prayer. It's a very, very difficult and torturous time for her. But I think that anxiety does begin to lessen because it becomes clear relatively quickly that there isn't any evidence against Elizabeth. Why are and his fellow plotters fail to incriminate her in any way, shape or form? Elizabeth, I think, is still frightened. She does wonder what an earth her fate might be. And she is in a place where she is surrounded by the ghosts of not only her mother, but also her stepmother, Catherine Howard, people who have lost their lives, arguably for lesser things than that of which she now stood accused. And I think perhaps most poignantly, Lady Jane Gray had only recently been executed at the time that Elizabeth arrived at the tower. And she had been executed basically because of the fact that her father had been one of the conspirators in the war at rebellion. Jane herself had had no involvement, but that had prevented Mary from acting against her. So I think that Elizabeth would have been very, very mindful of that at that time. And I mean, who knows, perhaps Jane scaffold was even still erected at the tower at that time. But I think that it must have been a really frightening experience for Elizabeth. And how close do you think she came to execution? Do you think that Mary was capable of that? I think in reality, she probably wasn't as close as she feared. I think Mary was capable of that, most definitely. But I think that Mary's counsellors would have protested. I mean, they already were beginning to protest about Elizabeth's imprisonment in the tower. So I think that Mary would have made herself very, very unpopular if she had executed Elizabeth. So I think had Mary been left to her own devices, we could have seen that because Mary did definitely believe that Elizabeth was guilty. However, the reality was that Mary had to act as a queen rather than as a woman, and there were those in place who were eager to ensure that she did the right thing and that justice was allowed to take its course. And ultimately, Elizabeth's not found guilty of treason. Mary's reign progresses, and over time it becomes clear that she's not going to produce an heir. What happens then in terms of the succession? Does Mary name Elizabeth as her successor? Not personally, no. She is never ever reconciled with Elizabeth. I think the white rebellion was really the final nail in the coffin in terms of the sister's relationship, because even when Elizabeth is freed, Mary never welcomes Elizabeth back into her heart. That ship as well and truly sailed. And she becomes quite embittered towards Elizabeth. And so by the time that Mary falls gravely ill in 1558, the sisters are still not reconciled, and Mary just can't quite bring herself to say Elizabeth's name, but she does recognise that Elizabeth is the next inline to the throne and that there's nothing that she can do to avoid that. So she does reluctantly acknowledge that the terms of her father's will are legal and that Elizabeth will become queen after her. So Mary's death, 17th of November 1558, what happens next? How is Elizabeth informed? She becomes queen on Mary's death. What's her response to that? Yeah, so Elizabeth is at Hatfield when she receives word of Mary's death, and she is not at all surprised because she's been expecting this news for some time. And she says that the law of nature moved us me to sorrow for my sister. And she claims later that she shared tears of grief for Mary's death, but very interestingly, there are no reports to confer this. So I think really she saw Mary's death as a relief. It meant that she was safe to an extent from persecution and from her sister's bitterness. So it's really the beginning of a whole new chapter of Elizabeth's life and one that she hadn't seen coming until perhaps later in Mary's reign. And that brings me to the end of this podcast. So Elizabeth has claimed the crown, but ascending the throne is only the beginning. And in her early years as queen, she will face a kingdom divided by religion. She will have to navigate the pressures of being a woman in power and see her personal life turned into a matter of state, all of which we're going to be exploring in the next episode. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to know more about Elizabeth's life, I've rounded up a selection of wider reading, some by Nicola herself from our archive. You can find all of that in the episode description below.
