Julius "Dr. J" Erving on ABA & NBA glory days, evolution of the dunk & athletes' role in civil rights era

We interrupt your regular programming for a very special announcement. Saturday nights are made for Mayhem with Celebrity Sabotage. Watch me Joel Dummett, me GK Barry, me Sam Thompson and Judy Love. It's called some chaos. Do not move a muscle. This is no man. Fire back to action please. Watch your hands as I fall in the deck. Sabotage! Celebrity Sabotage starts Saturday 21st of March on ITV1 and ITVX. You know Arthur, that's the tennis player in the world. Yes. You know I had my basketball thing going 74. Miles was making music. Miles would bring some music. We listened to it so we couldn't understand nothing. Two weeks later it was running up the charts. The biggest song in the world, huh? Running up the charts. Yeah, yeah, what up y'all? This is Joe Crack the Don. Know who it is, your boy Jada. This is the Joe and Jada show. Every show legend, every show iconic. You know what I mean? Live from LA All-Star 2026. Today's guests, when you think of the ABA, Aha, do your own work before the NBA. When you think of basketball, when you think of adversity, when you think of influence for such a long time. Style. You think of style. Blueprint. Class. You also would never want to get slapped by this guy. His hands are like. He'll slap the hell out of you. So don't make a mess. Ladies and gentlemen, make some noise for Julius Dr. J. Irvin. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Nice intro. I appreciate that. You know, I gotta do it. I gotta make it right for you, my brother. You know what? Happy to be here with you guys. Appreciate you for calling us. I see we brought the fake palm tree from New York. You see we got the fake palm tree with us? We got the fake tree. Yo, we brought the fake. Yo, let me tell you something. Dr. J. I'm thinking if Dr. Dre got inspired by Dr. J. We out here in LA, I'm like, damn, you think Dr. Dre got inspired? His name by Dr. J? Dr. J, one of a kind. He's so much. First of all, how's your wife? She's fine. You got a power couple. Every time I see y'all, we all start, we gotta go back. And I'll be like, damn, they the flyest couple in the game. Thank you for the compliment. Back at the hotel with her girlfriend. And she got some people out here. So she spent a little time with them. We were being there for me. Super legendary. See, I don't go by the rules. Like I don't look at the notes in all that. So me, I'm just shooting this shit off the top. He goes off script. So I'm off script. Off the top. Right? But when I think of me being a kid and looking at Dr. J. You know, the legendary dunks. Was anybody dunking before you or were you the first one to do it with like an exclamation point? That's interesting. Plenty of balls were dunked before I came along. And even as a kid, I used to watch Will Chamberlain on TV and dunking the ball and being in New York. You know, the nicks had a guy named Jumpin' Johnny Green. Jumpin' Johnny Green would catch it off, coming off the rim. After a missed shot, throw it back down, run down the court. Like nothing happened or whatever. And smooth with it. Yeah, he was smooth with it. And in my community where I live, I live in Roosevelt, New York. It was like 15,000 people. Roosevelt Island? No, Roosevelt, New York. The town of Roosevelt. The between Hepstead and Muniondale, all that. Nassau County? Nassau County, long out. My point is I used to walk past Johnny Green's house to get to school. And I'd always walk slow when I got to his house. And I'm like, I just got to see this guy. Well, I ain't won't go up and knock on the door. And I never saw him coming to go out of that house. But I did go to the garden and I saw him play. You know, we got something in common. I live in Westley Snipes block. You know, Westley Snipes lives on my block. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Food day, present time. I never seen him in my life. I'd walk, I'd do whatever. I see where I was. I see Joe is Westley Snipes. Yo, you know, he's my neighbor. I've never seen his wife. I've never seen his kids. I never, like, you know how many times I went by there? Like, yo, where's this guy? But Don Poole live right across the street from me. They'd see him. I never seen him. He didn't do a time in his off. Damn. Yeah. They're both working. That would be something. He might be saying, you need to see you too. I'm down to, I'm down to block, man. You're Westley. Yeah. You know, I live down the block. He's knock on the door, baby. Yeah. Knock on the door. So Johnny Green was smooth. Now. Yeah. So you didn't invent the doctor. I've been Johnny Green. My whole life, I thought you invented the dunk. They knew credit me with perfecting some of the dunk shots. Because it just used to be, you know, bit of both of them, throw it in and roll on out. And sometimes, you know, I might do no twist turn, turn, turn, turn, tap, full side. Or whatever, because I had a real big hand. I could hold a ball with one hand. The swag, I just got in the skier. Guys came to challenge you. You know, I would just move it back with the flow. So throw them off. Turn the people who were potentially blocking the shot or interrupting the shot and still complete the plane and just rolling out of there. So, so I've been credited with perfecting the dunk, but not inventing the dunk. It was, there was plenty of dunking before I came in. The ABA, what was that like? You know, it's one of the joys of my basketball life. Having started in the ABA and playing there for five years and doing that five years, you know, having something to, you know, take my mind away and my heart away from some of the bad things that were happening in the world. Because, you know, I came out of high school in 68. And so Martin Luther King was assassinated in 69. Malcolm X was assassinated in 64. JFK was assassinated. I mean, I came up and, you know, dealing with tragic stuff during the teenage years. So, so I'm going to college in 68 and staying there for three years and having the path called for a pro career. And the pro career, you know, gave you something to focus on, concentrate on. Go through the challenge of being in your livelihood, knowing that the other opportunities, the other situations were, I think they got drafted into the army. Like a lot of my friends from high school, they got drafted into the army. Someone went to Vietnam and never came back. So there was a lot of bad stuff, the Cold War between us and Russia, you know, during that time that we had, there were times where there was fire drills. In school, where you had to figure out how to go in the basement or hide. Just in case there was a plane coming by, attacking the United States and dropping bombs, whatever. So when people talk about basketball, basketball was a game. As an amateur, it wasn't a livelihood, but it was a game and it was a diversion from a lot of the things that were bad about the society that we live in. Because we have an ugly history in that regard, especially regarding race. You know, I was going to ask you right now when you brought them both up. I didn't realize JFK, then Martin Luther King, and I didn't realize it was all in that little five-year run right there. Who's out of geology? You decided with more Malcolm or Martin Luther King? Martin Luther King, you know, we were Christians, and we went to Baptist church, and my mother and father both from South Carolina. So, you know, they were down in the Bible Belt in that regard, and moved north, moved to Chicago first, and then into New York. And me and my sister and brother were all born in New York. So, you know, born there, bred there, and we dealt with all that. You said you was just finishing high school, and you watched the news, and it's like Martin Luther King got assassinated, then mocked. That had to be like real. How did you find out? That's traumatic. You know what, I was on TV. I mean, we had TV. So, it was from TV how you found out? Yeah, TV. Yeah, yeah. Actually, actually, it was on my dad's birthday. Yeah, my dad actually lived around the corner. My dad's from Memphis. He got assassinated on one of my dad's birthdays. Oh, yeah. So, though, his whole birthday shot was... That's a hotel, right? Yeah, yeah. At the hotel. At the hotel is that. So, I mean, and the whole world heard about it at the same time, and there were various reactions. You know, I was in elementary school with JFK, and I was in... We went in school, and then when the shooting happened in Dallas or whatever, they told all the kids to go home. You know, so we just went out, and some of us went, stayed in the parks, stayed on the school grounds. People went home. And when Martin, I mean, it was riots. It was riots. We got ugly out here. Suburbs, suburbs, cities. There were riots associated with that, because people weren't having it, but they couldn't change it. And the riots didn't change anything. You know, a lot of things don't change, you know, because I think of John Lennon. He got assassinated. Yeah. His man was singing about roses and... Yeah. Fields and... Yeah, it's a lot of ugly stuff, man. Yeah, because, you know, we just had Super Bowls, and your man, Bad Bunny, is the nicest guy in the world, and the way they protested this guy and all that, like, I was actually scared for him. Like, I was like, because there's so much division and hatred and all that going around, and this guy, just for singing, I was really worried about him. I was really like, yo, they might do something to this guy right here, and to sing, right? And so you see, like, John Lennon, he got killed. He was the most peaceful guy in the world. So, so, so, so, case in point, we got an advocate for peace, harmony, love. So if you get a platform, you know, you need to promote those things. So I've tried to be about that, by success, and my notoriety. I don't call it fame, per se, because, you know, fame, not people could be famous, might be to jump off a bridge. How it is jump off a bridge and do something crazy. Oh my God. Get fame and notoriety. So I think the topic should be respect, and, you know, if you get respect in your genre, your industry, whatever, I mean, you view on your way, so you need to use that platform in a positive way. I mean, that's what we try to do, especially nowadays. So I look at me and Jadakiss, like Shaquille O'Neal with Charles Barkley. So, you know, we've been, we played the game, we won chips, we did everything. So we talk about hip hop and lifestyle, and the people respected in that way. I feel like the hip hop genre grew up now to the point of where we hit that commentary vase, where they're like, you know, Jadakiss, some people think he's top five rapper in the world. And in fact, Joe, you know, he talk a lot of, you know, he talk a lot of shit. So they get up in here, you know, it's like Shaq and Charles. But, you know, we try to bring positive to everything. We don't even engage. When they got World War III in hip hop, they call us first and be like, yo, we want to come up and curse the other rapper out. And this and that, we be like, yeah, we don't really want that. Like, you know, I'm sorry, guys. Wrong guess. Yeah, we're not taking sides. We just not. And then people have the misconception, especially now. They have a misconception where they feel like everything has to be negative. Everything has to be clickbait. Everything has to be, you know, and they think that's, they literally think that's the only way to become successful in 2026. Yeah. Well, you got, you know, people that's their opinion. It's not everybody. But sometimes it seems like it's everybody because that person has a stage or those people have a stage and they're saying, and, but it's not everybody. I mean, I don't think there's anything on the planet, but everybody does. It's a breeze, air, drink water, you know, whatever. So, but when you get your chance, you're opening, you know, it's important that you step in and be accountable. Accountability is something I've been hearing more these days. And I think everybody needs to be accountable. It's not age related. No, it doesn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter. I mean, I'll be 76 next week. No, great. Dr. Chow. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that I get in front of a room of 16 year olds, it's not like I got to talk to him like a 76 year old or 50 year old or 25 year old with us. Kind of say what's in my heart, share what's in my heart and, you know, open and extend the hand of friendship to him. You know, like Bill Russell did to me, you know, when I was 19, he had already finished his career and he extended the hand of friendship. And we became friends right up until the time he passed away at 86. I like to do that. I like to mimic and duplicate what somebody has done for me. You know, and how important is that? No, giving back that knowledge and giving back that some jewels to the youth. Yeah. Things of that nature. So I, you know, I have a documentary out, I have an autobiography out. And either it took a long time, 10 at all to biographically. Because I think I started at 43, 45. I didn't finish till I was 61, 62, you know, in 2012. So I think putting it back in the universe is important. And my initial motivation was to get the story straight, first person for my family. And the generations that are down the line. So the uncles aunts, nephews, me, kids, grandkids, great, great children. I wanted them to have something first person, that's what by me. So they can know, because I knew that the popularity of being a basketball player was going to have a lot of things said about me. So I'm going to be, so it's going to be true. So given the first person and, you know, affording, allowing yourself to go ahead and go through that process. And it was just a trying process. You guys written biographies and autobiographies. It's in a traumatic section and you got to keep going over it. And you got to think of like traumatic stuff to happen. That's hard. So when I did it, what did you write? Yeah. So I had to go over it. And then my best friend got murdered in front of me. And then this, this, this. And you just reliving that. Yeah. It's almost like peeling the orange. Like you just like, you keep reliving the trauma back and forth. And then some people want to bury it. Just bury it like it never happened. But it really did happen. And it's part of what makes you who you are. Well, my fear is the reason why I originally got into hip hop journalism, whatever you call it, right? Start at IG, whatever. Is I start watching hip hop documentaries. Not for nothing, Dr. J. You some years in front of me. When it comes to this hip hop thing, I was born in the birthplace. Really can't tell me nothing about this thing. Yeah. Like nothing. When you talking about a hip hop historian, that's like if they bought a basketball, they stitched it up. I know who stitched it. Yeah. Yeah. And if you wasn't there, I know you wasn't there. So now they start doing these hip hop documentaries and they start having so-called historians. They weren't there. So they start telling their own narrative or whatever. And I'm not saying, yo, we can't do this because if we die in 20 years from now, kids go back to the videotape, they're not going to get the real answers. They're not getting authentic, right? Yeah. That's why I started interviewing people and doing all this because they were really fabricating different stories. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, and these are credible people making these documentaries. I was like, yo, this is crazy. That's why I originally got into it. And then with me writing a book, I just knew for a fact, if I died, they calling me a liar, terrible, while I'm alive. Yeah, they could. So I had to tell my book before somebody when it came and said, yo, this guy's this, this guy's that, this guy's this. And when you let somebody else tell your story, never going to be right. It could be the closest ones to you, not even in a bad way. They seem in a different way than you saw it. Yeah. So it's very important that people document and also who you're talking about. Yesterday about inspiration. Somebody was talking about, we were talking about that bitch. It's about inspiring the kids behind you and letting them know that it's possible. Hope, hope and it's possible. And a lot of, like you said, I had to see it to believe it. One thing I never been was jealous. And so I always looked at everybody else. They're one. He said, yo, we can do that. Like always been inspired by greatness and people won or people made money or people. I always was like, yes. Well, if he did that, he can't be, he can't be a bigger bullshitter than me. I'm going to get to that fucking bag. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, I'm going to get to it. If it's doable, it's attainable. I'm going to go for it. Yeah. You know, you know, just listening to you. It makes you, we think about one of the things that I learned in my lifetime because through my grandparents, my great grandparents, and I noticed that there was some Native American heritage in my great grandmother's look and hair and so on and so forth. What I said, that was my curiosity. And, you know, I befriended some Native Americans over the years. And one of the takeaways, one of the biggest takeaways was they talk about doing stuff that will affect seven generations. You know, and they seem to be the only people I run into in my span of time that I've been here. We talk about that. Because once you say that, well, it makes somebody stop and think. You think about seven generations with them. Just me think right now. Yeah. Yeah. It made you think right now. And you guys are probably doing that if you haven't already done that. That's going to have an effect on seven generations. You know, it's so wicked. That's a beautiful thing. You know, we're so wicked. I never passed three generations of thinking about like, as he said that, I never thought. Seven. Seven. You thought about seven. No, I can't think of no seven generations. Yeah. But I can tell you who did. The wicked people who created the laws and did the systemic racism. Hundred years ago, we didn't even have telephones. We didn't even have a car. We didn't even have a plane. But they made laws back at that time that's affecting us at this time to where everybody can't get to the badge. Systemic racism. They did that a hundred. They didn't even have a phone, a fax machine number. They thought of, okay, we're going to eff these people up for a hundred something years. Whatever. We're going to make sure these got eternity. They thought of seven generations. Termists, Jefferson and all of God's with the white it. They thought of it in a negative way. Yes. Each one. And they acted on it. Yeah. You know what's crazy is my grandfather, his sisters used to come visit like, once every 10 years and they dressed up as Indians. And they wrote it in my book. He used to have moccasins. They were Indians. They were. Like, now I'm in the projects in the Bronx looking at them like, yo, we got real Indians in our family from Puerto Rico. Yeah. You know what? You know, I was too little. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Was they Puerto Rican or was they Indian? They Taíno Indians in Puerto Rico. The Puerto Ricans is Spanish, African and Taíno Indian. That makes up a Puerto Rican. But what I'm telling you is that I don't know why I had some aunts and uncles that used to come in moccasins dressed like straight Indians in the South Bronx with moccasins. We over there with AJs and overlaps and tank tops looking at them like, I'm like, yo, Indians for real coming up in that joint. Look and learn. Look and learn, man. Look and learn because from a cultural standpoint, you know, lots of times they do things differently and sometimes they do things better. I never seen them again after my grandfather died. His side of the family unfortunately never came back. Like once my grandfather died, like that was it. Like they, you know, it's scary because I got, you know, I'm half Cuban. I got a bunch of stepbrothers and sisters and since my father passed away last year, you know, we lose contact. Like, you know, some of my brothers don't call no more. My sister called yesterday because it was a year anniversary of my father's death. She was like, yo, how are you feeling, bro? Whatever, bro. You know, sometimes when people die, that whole part of that family. Well, no question about it. You know, my mother was one of 14 children in Baseburg, South Carolina. My father was one of 11. So I had aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews, cousins, the whole deal. But once my father passed, we started relating to mom's side of the family. So that's who we knew. That's who you spent the time with. That's who you related to. That's who you became close to. And, you know, that does that. Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida's best sports book. I know it's tough with no football, but like the song says, I will survive. Hard Rock Bet, always something to bet every single night. Hoops, hockey, so much more. 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Whether it's everyone at yours for a Sunday roast or after-school sausage and mash, quick, simple, gone in minutes. One thing brings it all together. Ah, Bisto. The original gravy. Rich, smooth, and unmistakable since 1908. When the gravy makes the dish, make the gravy. Bisto. I've always been jealous of your era. Ain't no, he's not necessarily. I wanted the older- You don't get jealous. No, but you're right. Right? What I mean like is when I watched the movies from your era, they throwing the chinchillas on. The Frank Lucas movies and Nicky Bonds on the cover of Tom, you know, the rats. I'm just saying, they were the biggest. What was it like at the time when you the biggest guy, Dr. J was the biggest guy on the earth at that time? When they talk about all this, because we from New York, I don't know about him, but I'm assuming him. We from New York, we think Harlem's the flyers, right? And we think of all that. But that's about your time. You're going to show us you're going to have no flags. What did I say? I don't know. What I'm trying to say is, where's the flag? That's the cutoff? No, no, that means foul on the place. I said something. I didn't agree with it. He didn't agree with it, so he threw the flag. We usually got a hundred of them flying. We've been real gentle with you, Mr. Dr. J. Mr. Irving. I don't show respect. My thing is, what was it like in that era? The flyiness. You could see you fly. You fly it in all of it. Forever. You got Will Chamberlain bragging, but he wasn't more swagged out than you. And you was outside. How about your boy Clyde? Clyde, you know, he's still wearing a cowboy suit. He got the cow. He's made out of cow. Clyde still rocking same suits. The same suits? He might have gotten him tailored up, but I think it's the same. Right? You can't even find something that, he got some of the finest cow skins and materials that you haven't seen. Yo, Clyde, you know, I be trying to dress, right? Well, he was cool. He played the cool card. His management company used to represent him. So, yeah, it was... Your era, Dr. J. I'm trying to get you in this era. Right? Okay. It's Harlem. It's New York City. You from New York. You the biggest in the world. You Dr. J. You slam dunking over everything. You coming in a rocker shutting it down. You got all these guys that we watched these movies of in the middle of your era. What was that like, Dr. J? Could you just describe to us what was Dr. J's life at that time? Was there a club in Harlem that was out of this world that you walked in at 12 midnight? It was like, Dr. J, like, what was that like? I'm gonna tell you the truth. So, at a certain hour, you know, I would be in the Apto House club. And I look around. I'm thinking, these people don't want to go home or they ain't got nowhere to go. Let me get the hell out of here. Because I got a home and I was, you know, living in my parents' house because I was early 20s. I stayed in New York until I was 26. So, birthed until 26. And I wasn't trying to be hard. You know, my mom, she raised three kids. And pretty much by herself, she did marry. I had a stepfather. But she, she bared the load. And I said, I ain't trying to do nothing to make it harder when it hurt than it already is. I'm not saying being harder. No, that was, that was you there, Dr. J. Everybody was coming up to you. Dr. J, this is such and such. Yeah. You're Dr. J. This is such and such. They had to be doing that, right? That would do it. Yeah. So, me, Reggie Jackson, Arthur Ashe, Miles Davis, the Bill Cosby. Whoa. So, 1974, we would meet frequently at Cosby's house, right? And a lot of the discussion was about time and place and what we doing. You know, Arthur was, that's the tennis player in the room. Yes. You know, I had my basketball thing going 74. Both the time MVP in the ABA. Miles was making me do it. Miles was making music, you know, and Miles would bring some music and he'd play it. But there was a thing called divided soul. We listened to it so we couldn't understand nothing. Two weeks later, it was running up the charts. The biggest song in the world, huh? Running up the charts. We saw some of those. Yeah, yeah, because you don't know. I mean, it's raw. I had that with Grover Washington Jr., you know, in Philly. He writes something. I hear it. Oh, that's all right. Next thing I know. You know, that's the hat. It's like, what was that? Gamble and Huff? Gamble and Huff. Philly and Huff. Philly was the... Yeah, they were Philly. They made great music. Cosby. Cosby got all jammed up. And it was very, very unfortunate because, you know, he was a good mentor in my life. When he was older than us, and he hosted us in his house, and this is 74. So we, in our 20s, Reggie was a little older. Me and Arthur about the same age, and Miles was a little older too. So, so we had our crew. You know, that's a good crew to have. Wow. Yeah, you ain't got a... You ain't got no... That's a Mount Rushmore of crews. You ain't got a good no club. You can't beat no Arthur Ash, no Reggie Jackson. Mr. October. Bill Cosby, Jello Pudding Pops. This man was... Fred Albert. Yeah. Like, you had Fred Albert. Yeah. You go out with him. So that helped me because I had friends like that. And now, you know, Reggie and I are still friends. We got an event going on in Vegas beginning of the next month. So he just sent me a note, all right, you gonna be here? Hell yeah, I would be here. You know, you gonna tie me. You were linked to my past, and it was a great time. So you were linked to my past when I was on the top of the world, you know, and being talked about in that conversation, who's the best basketball player in the world? That's when that conversation was going on. I'll be honest with you, Dr. J, you're still on top of the world. You still on top of the world when they see you. Thank you. Hey, hey, hey, nobody. I know you might think it was a long no. He lights up every room he steps. Yeah, you walk in there, you swagged out to this day. That's why I asked you about your wife. Y'all always look beautiful. You coming through, you floating. They know what time it is. On another level, and basketball players, more than anything, they got to study the tape. They have to study the tape. Basketball players, you know, I always tell a story. I say Floyd Mayweather, who's undefeated and everybody called the greatest box one of them of all time. I seen a fight where he was getting beat up for six rounds, and then he switched up the whole style. And he beat the guy and at the end he was like, Jack Dempsey. Jack Dempsey. I watched the video tape when he did this and that. And the point is, it's the same story, but it's relative to what we're talking about. They got to watch the video tape. Yeah. You know, and give us another. That's a wonderful gift. You know, having a video to watch. You know, now, I think some of the stuff that people watch, maybe it doesn't necessarily help them. You know, maybe motivates them to just get out there, but, you know, every piss video that's out there ain't good. No. Say it again. Most of bad. Yeah. Yeah. Most of bad. The majority probably is. That was more damaged than good. I'm addicted to social media. Like, you know, if I have a second, I watch my Instagram and this and this and that, but, you know, I'm kind of getting pissed off at all this, like, negativity and everybody fighting each other and everybody. It's just like every day you wake up to see who's fighting who, who's this, who's that, and it's kind of like played out. What you think, KISS? What the world needs love is love. Sweet love. It's the only thing that there's just too little of. Good answer. Good answer. Good answer. Today's the, today's the state of the game. How do you feel about it without, you know, a lot of people can't take conversation. Then they, they misconstrued it or they get emotionally drained or things of that nature when you just act something like that. That's why we like to stay away from the, the questions that turn into religious arguments or political debates. But just the state of the game wears out today from, you know, how you played it and say that it, you know, how you feel about it. So I'm going to jump over into the racial aspect of it. You know, see when I was coming up, black athletes got interviewed. You know, sometimes they get played. Somebody who asks stupid stuff, they give a stupid answer. And then suddenly see that's why we shouldn't interview the black guys. Because they representing or whatever. So I was always kind of guarded with my dialogue and delivery and, you know, try to say things the right way or whatever. Cause I grew up, you know, seeing some, some bad interviews. I mean, for some terrible interviews, you know, especially with boxers and shitball players, you know, guys, you know, I was like, no, no, come on, man. We could do better than that. Cause we are better than that. And that became a reflection on the race. And unfortunately, or fortunately, you know, ABA was a breakthrough in terms of majority of players in the league were black. Wasn't that we're in the NFL? Wasn't that we're major league baseball? Baseball was probably second. You know, with maybe 40%. And, but the NBA, it was like in the 20s. No, 20s. And, and so that's where the most work needed to be done. And then there were breakthroughs, you know, certain people coming up and, and, and handling it. You know, black commentators. So they weren't going to play the game. You know, they've tried to help the athlete who they were, who they were talking to. And so, so there's a, there's a track record that you can follow and you could see, you know, basketball opened the stores 1947. So 47, 57, 67, 77, 87, 97, you know, Blacks, we came to the dominant race in the league. So you got a lot of good interviews. And now comes the international player. You know, the international player has to work his way. Because there's certain people, you know, they don't want to get on the microphone because they didn't really own the language. The female golfers that came from China, Japan, whatever. No, you got to learn English if you're going to play over here. You're going to make this money and take this money back. You got to learn the language. They do that to the Latino boxers too. Latino boxers. They actually analyze that you make less money if you don't talk English. Yeah. You got to learn English. That's what he's saying. Yeah. So there were real times in which this got recognized and then suddenly, you know, people made the adjustments they were necessary to max it out, you know, to max, make maximum money. Well, I need to, I need to get my stuff together. And part of it is what kind of upbringing you have and what the influencers, influences are on you, school wise, you know, I just hated to hear somebody being called a dumb jock. Because that was my space, you know, they called us jocks. And a dumb jock, that was, that was almost being worse than being called the N word. It was the rocket storage. Very. We had it bad. Right. And so, you know, I'm going YouTube to watch Quarters Regans in 1970. Man, I don't even know. This is like, you know, when they say your ancestors dream, like talking like that, like the way they was talking in the 19th. The English, the broken English. Nothing. They was like, English. Maybe if they were smart, they sounded dumb as hell. Black people too in the South Bronx. I watched them in the 70s. And I'm like, and now you got so many art, art, articulate, smart, intelligent, millionaires, all kind of business owners and all that. Well, I'm just like, damn, we came a long, long way. Because when you watch that footage of the Bronx in the 70s, you just like, damn, how did we get here? You know, so you were here. It was a miracle. Dr. Jay, you've been around a long time. You hear hip hop. Where do you hear it for the first time? And did you know when you heard it around that time that did you know all this thing is going to go? No, I had no idea that it was going to go to where it went. You know, I mean, I was a rhythm of blues guy and jazz guy. And when I heard hip hop, I mean, I, you know, I had, I had a cautious ear because it was all around, came from uptown. And, you know, the characters associated with hip hop, you know, I got to kick out of, you know, I was like, okay, I ain't trying to be them. And then they're not trying to be me. So they got their own genre. And how far will it go? And it went to the moon. It went, it went to the moon, man. And there was no, no turning back because I think the overall acceptance of hip hop in the beginning was to be determined by the people who were the best at doing it. And, and they not only grabbed the stage, they didn't let it go. You know, and, you know, I mean, some of the, you look at looking like Snoop, you know, for one thing. I mean, he's crossed over into a dozen different things. He's the host of the Olympics now. And not, yeah, but he's been doing golf tournaments. He does so much variation of the theme, but he's still genuine. Because when he's talking, you know where he comes from, where he comes from. And, and he'd be quick to tell you. So, yeah, what did I feel about it? I mean, you know, you know, my, my generation was, you know, the rhythm and blues piece. And even, even in my, my house, you know, music, my mom would play whatever it was just, you know, straight up love songs. It'd be a little mix of rock and roll in there. You know, they, they like to rock and roll. You want to know what's crazy. You know, it's ill that he say the music that he grew up and listened to. His son was my man. Yeah, J Irving. Yeah, yeah. I know the brother. The J, huh? Yeah. Yeah, you know what's crazy is, I don't know if you've seen recently, the homeboy, Gene Simmons said that hip hop shouldn't be in the rock and roll hall of fame. This is the new talk. This is real. You can't deny that. I mean, you know, can't deny hip hop from coming in, you know, being in the rock and roll hall of fame is going to recognize the sales, you know, and the, uh, Impact. Yeah. Overall impact. Yeah. My thing is, uh, if we create rock and roll, like originally Chuck Berry, yeah, black people created rock and roll. I don't know. We got the facts. Uh, no, I got the facts. Oh, it might have been like that slam dunk country question. Because they didn't invent it, but they perfected it. It affected. Oh, my facts. You know, Richard said, I saw an interview one time, little Richard named every superstar, uh, rock person. It was like, y'all, he played in my band. I taught him how to do this. I taught her how to do this. I taught, like he dead ass was pointing out all the rock and roll legends talking about it. He taught him everything. Rapals are fine. Okay, buddy, with my flag. Ah, god, why? Ah, why? Rapals are fine. Ah, why? Where can we see the new, uh, Ava? I know it's on prime. I already said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Amazon prime. I watched it last night. You know, the guy come in, Jerry Rig, my TV. Got, and then I got a, uh, Amazon prime account because I had an Amazon account, My business name and they were like, oh, no, this one's under another one. So I was under Amazon.com and then the Amazon Prime, whatever it is, at first month free, then it's $14 a month. So I got roped into it because I said, I want to watch this last night before I come out the day this weekend. And they got us hooked up to me and my wife, Dorees. And we watched it from eight to midnight because it was four episodes and each episode is like an hour. And I will see it again. I probably will, you know, see it again with friends or family or whatever. We're going to do a big birthday celebration next week. So I'm going to get that on in the background as a backdrop. You know, that should be good. So you guys need to check it out. We're going to go and do it last night before that. I saw it, but I'm realizing I watched the old documentary. Oh, so I watched the documentary on Dr. Yeah. Yeah, that is called the doctor. I thought I was what? See what he came. I told Lori was there. She was like, yeah, you know, it comes out tonight. I said, yeah, I watched it last night. She was like, no, wasn't it? You must have watched the old joint. No, the ABA is more than just me. And it's a lot of people spent to Haywood and Rick Barry and, you know, the people who were a part of the nine year history of the ABA. So starting 1967, there we go back to that time. Yeah. And that craziness was going on in the country with the. You know, it's nuts. I've seen it. Yeah. I think it's in that documentary where it was segregated. Then they let black and white people play together. And I said, and they were showing the fans reaction. They had white people and it was like, yeah, I love this guy. And I love that. And they and they showed how sports gelled everybody together. I had such a horrible time. Yeah. Well, see, you know, I'm from Long Island, right? So we had we had a team at the Salvation Army. And me and the guy named Archie Rogers, two of us. And we had 10 guys who were not black, who were white, those are our teammates. So we were a close knit group in the suburb, right? Over in Hepstead. And sometimes we would go to games that were arranged for our team. And the other coach didn't want his players to play against us. He said, so this is 61, 62. And it was like, well, we play y'all, but they can't play. So our guy, Don Ryan, who's still there in Hepstead, in the community. And he's a he's a he's an angel sent from heaven. He said, let's go guys. Took the whole team. That was a new tent. The white boys still left the building. We had our team. We just leave the building. And that would have happened two or three times a year. During our seasons, when I was a member there, and I remember it and I embrace it, you know, because that was so important for what he did. You think Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, you know, all these athletes, a forefront of the civil rights. To me, when I look at those signs, I just think of the courage, like the courage you had to have. But people are scared to talk right now, kids. People are literally afraid. This is the only time the president of the United States will clap back on Instagram at you. Yeah, president of the United States be like, yo, fat Joe, let me highlight you and tell you this. This is like people are terrified to speak up now. And at that time, you know, it pretty much was hard to be, you know, because you risk in your career, you risk in all that. So when you were seeing guys like Muhammad Ali talking about, I ain't going to the war or like that. And then, you know, what you thought at that time? OK, so I was a little young for the heart of the movement. But I was well aware of the different players, the Martin Luther King, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Long Island guy, Bill Russell. He was already in basketball and, you know, he was the ultimate champion in basketball. So I was kind of watching from the sideline. But, you know, not being ignorant about what was going on because, you know, it was life or death. And, you know, like I said, I had friends who went to war. I had friends who who followed Malcolm X. I happened to follow Dr. King. So I was trying to, you know, be spiritual, you know, let religion be different than what was being said by the Muslim movement. And so so being in that and, you know, what you had to you had to believe in something. You had to take a stand in some capacity. So I followed Dr. King. It's beautiful. I followed Dr. King, too. You know, it's crazy because I think of seeing that at a movie Malcolm X, right? And they walking through Harlem and you see Reverend Al on a box preaching. They used to see the Muslim saying, you'll see the five percent of saying you'll see the Java witness. Like they was everybody was preaching in one corner. Take a side. Yeah. He said, you've got to be about something. He's down. You don't stand for something. Fall for anything. Fall for anything. I always say Dr. Martin Luther King is the greatest American ever lived and gave his life for it. His courage was incredible. He chose love over hate. He chose peace, you know, and bringing the people together. And he was authentic, too. I mean, you know, we just dedicated his whole life to that. And people don't do that anymore. They dedicated for a while and then somebody blowing their ear. Next thing you know, they over there doing something they supposed to be doing. When you got fake activists to get paid off to stop acting, they know more. They gone, huh? Because of the track under the table. So which they whole believe once they catch that little check and check it out. And so I'd be like, huh? And they'd be like, yeah. And then all of a sudden, you know, they took the check, you know, we're constantly looking for a new here, you know, new. Difference maker. You know, somebody will constantly and some people will get pushed to that position. But yeah, I think I think you have to be born into. You know, it's not something you learn. Got to be not somebody's not something you learn in school. It's not something you learn. Something God puts in you. Yeah. It says, hey, man, you got me. Don't have no fear. Go represent your people. And so that's important. This ain't that. That ain't this. Just cracking kids. Make sure y'all check the documentary out on Amazon Prime. Make sure. Dr. J, the living legend of I.C.O.L.F. Thank you. Come knowledge yourself. Make some noise for the doctor. That young. All right.