EA665: Michelle Hamilton – Building an AI Ready Architecture Firm

This is the NCARB podcast, where you get an inside look at licensure, regulation, and the initiative shaping the future of architectural practice. I'm your host, Andy McIntyre, Vice President of Marketing and Communications at NCARB. And this season, we're diving into Pathways to Practice, NCARB's multi-year effort to rethink how architects become licensed. Architecture is the hardware to the software of life, right? It is fundamentally about that interaction and it makes life easier if we have a built environment that works. Across eight episodes, we'll explore how licensure got to where it is today and where it needs to go next. We talk with architects, educators, regulators, and NCARB leaders about education, experience, and the exam, and why each of those pillars is evolving. And that portion of school where you go from conceptual to real is also really challenging. It's not something you're really gently moved into. It's kind of like you're doing something that's flowy and crazy and all of a sudden, wait, you actually have to make this work. You'll hear how the NCARB competency standard was developed, how research is shaping future licensure models, and what a more flexible competency-based approach could mean for candidates from a wide range of backgrounds. So we've seen that in our data as the number of reciprocal licenses starts to decrease a little bit, but that number of individuals who are licensed hold steady. We also tackle the big questions. Why does licensure look the way it does today? Where do candidates face the biggest barriers and how can we expand access without lowering standards? Not everybody fits into the same mold. And so having different pathways to licensure, I think, is really important. 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Michelle brings more than 30 years of experience in commercial real estate, architecture, engineering, and construction before moving into enterprise AI. Her work focuses on one of the biggest challenges facing firms today, not just choosing the right technology, but helping people actually use it and use it well. For small firm architects, this conversation is about leadership, readiness, and how AI can become a practical tool for building a better business. Michelle Hamilton, welcome to Andre Architect Podcast. Mark, thanks. Really glad to be here. Great topic, and I'm passionate about the architecture space. Great. I'm going to learn all about that because I want to ask your origin story. We've been talking to a lot of people about AI lately, obviously. AI is everywhere. It's taking over the world and doing all the things that we're doing. Some good things, some bad things. I think people are very enthusiastic about it. There's a little fear around it. And so I want to talk to you about your thoughts on AI and how small firms can integrate it into the things that they're doing in a really good way. Before we do that, I want to know more about you. So when did you discover your passion for what you do and who or what inspired you to get started? Well, at least within the AI space, my son, who now is 23, works for Boeing. He was a freshman in college and he actually got a very early version, a beta version of ChatGPT and sent it to me and said, Mom, let's experiment with this together. It aligns really well with how our brains work. He said, I'm going to use it for school. You use it for, and I was working at an architecture firm at the time. He said, why don't you think about it from ops, marketing, biz dev. Let's talk about what we can do with this. And that was about, oh, maybe four months before the rest of the world had heard about ChatGPT. So we got this amazing runway to start iterating back and forth and begin to develop our own insight into what really made it astonishing for actually both use cases. So what's your background in architecture? You said you were working in an architecture firm. I was. You know, my background, I actually spent 30 years in commercial real estate in everything from being a furniture rep in the really early days to then leading business development and marketing teams for architecture, engineering, construction management. and that is the space where I really spent almost my entire career. The built environment to me is one of the most impactful conversations that you can have because it truly impacts every human on the earth and you know we all have that shared life experience and I felt really lucky to work among some of the most brilliant people who impacted people's lives from birth to death. Yeah. So you know our people well. I do. I know them and I love them. Yeah. So how did you get from architecture to AI? Obviously, you got this early adoption to ChatGPT. I remember when ChatGPT took off like wildfire. I remember those early weeks. I jumped on right away. My son is also involved in the AI world. And so I was understanding that it's out there pretty early on and started using it. And so how did that happen? How did you go from architecture to AI? Well, I tell you what, fortunately, at the time when he and I were working side by side, the architecture firm that I was working for, once ChatGPT dropped, the owners really actually were very pro-AI. They were incredibly forward-thinking owners. And while most of the architecture world, to be frank, at the time was saying, oh no, this is terrible. It's going to either replace us or it could never be a part of architecture. What we do, AI cannot be a part of. And I was really inspired by the conversations I heard the owners having. And they really gave me full reign to, and I was the vice president of business development. And they said, dive in, let's start talking about how we as a firm can be AI forward, but let's also experiment through you. You've had this runway, you've had this head start. Help us understand what are you doing? How are you getting the results that you are? We're asking it for some pretty basic hyper Google conversations. And yet you're doing this very complex research on customers, on land, on even just predicting and thinking about valuation and the cost of materials. And so it was really through their encouragement in thinking about and the openness to applying it to architecture that really helped me continue to stay, you know, fired up. Fast forward a few years later, I had switched firms and the firm that I was with actually ended up having a layoff. And at the time, I already had a full book of business of really architecture, engineering, construction firms that I was coaching on my own with the blessing of everyone I was working with because it only brought them even more information the more I learned. And I thought to myself, you know, why not me? I'll start my own AI company. No one else is really talking about how humans can humanize AI and move forward without sort of having this hyper Google expectation. And also thinking about how are companies addressing fear and how are they setting forward governed policies? How are they thinking about how can we establish use cases that are both cited and verified so that it is truly reflective of our brand and brand standards? So I ended up launching two AI companies and those grew very, very quickly over the course of a year. And then at the end of last year, then I was bought out by a larger AI company who really saw that connection point. AnswerRocket happens to work with some of the largest construction and development firms around the world. And they said, bring your voice and your real estate experience with you. Let's begin to really help businesses understand and they're just throwing money at the wall and not investing in their people first. How do we back up the bus a little bit? Sure, we can build out some of the most complex models. And by the way, they've been building AI systems for 13 years. So they were not a startup by any stretch. But they said, we see it time and time again with our small, medium businesses and our Fortune 50 clients. They're not training their employees. They're just saying, here, build us this system. we hand it to them and then they complain that there's no ROI. And when we ask them, how are you showing people how to use it? They say, I don't know, can't they just figure it out? So that is how I ended up joining Answer Rocket and became the practice lead for a very fast growing, certainly industry, but my division is growing very quickly as we continue to do work around the world. Yeah. So you talked about this gap between the investment and the adoption. What does that look like typically in a firm? Why is that happening? You know, I think it happens because it's multitude of reasons, but let's just start with the easy button here. If you think of AI as simply a technology investment and that you are just standing up another tool and that your IT department should be able to figure out, handle it, send out some slides to the rest of the employees and say, here you go, just click here, do that, you're going to be just fine. Or worse yet, they just start buying all the tools because they've been given all of these incredible promises that it has all these AI superpowers. Instead of actually stopping, assessing, and thinking, what is it that we are trying to achieve? Why are we investing in this? And what have we set forward is actually our metrics of success. What I usually ask owners to do at that point is, do you have documentation of how long it currently takes you to do X? Pretty much anything that takes you more than, let's say, 15 minutes, three times a week. How long is it taking you to get there? Now we can begin to map ROI just from that point. Because once your team begins to truly understand for their particular role, KPIs, outcomes, how can they apply an AI lens in a safe, well-mannered method that actually is reflective, as I said before, of your brand and your brand standards? Then we're going to run that pilot. And then at the end of, let's say, four to six weeks, let's test that metric again. Let's begin to compare and contrast and put that against hourly rates and find out how you can continue to improve. And for me, one of the things that most architecture firms and frankly, any firm that I work with ask, the employees quietly ask me, well, are they bringing you in so that they can just replace me? My answer to that is, I can't promise you that that's not gonna happen. But what I can promise you is if we work together, you are going to become the best AI user for your job and your role and your responsibilities. And that's going to do two things for you. First of all, it is going to increase your marketability It is going to keep you at the top of your game but it is also going to allow you to create this dynamic assistant that is doing some of the knowledge work so that you can get up from your desk and stop staring at a computer for 10 hours a day and go back to connecting with your clients, with your strategic partners, just even your own employees, because businesses and architecture firms especially, I think are built on relationships. And if we stop looking at each other and stop talking to each other, then those relationships begin to die. And I believe that AI in combination with humanity can actually help shepherd us forward to getting back to those relationships instead of, you know, like I said, 10 hours a day in front of a blue screen. I agree. I think AI will do a lot of the things that we don't need to be doing. And I think the human to human interaction and the human to human relationships are going to become even more important to our society and to us individually. I don't think that's going away. I think it's only going to become more important that we want to connect with other humans. It's funny in the last couple of years, I start talking like this with human to human and the word human is so embedded into the conversations that I'm having these days because everything's changing. The technology is becoming part of our society and how it works. It's ironic that you mentioned technology really becoming part of our society as well, because, you know, another common sort of pushback that I get is it could be an owner, it could be an employee saying, I'm not going to use the AI, it's going to steal all of my information. And I do have to say my response to that is if you are using any social media at all, and it could be LinkedIn, it could be... They already have your information. The information is actually already out there, but you are responsible for protecting yourself in a really wise manner. And you have to get smart about how you are using a tool. Just like, and I've used this example on a construction podcast recently, but you would never send a tradesperson to a job site if they didn't know how to use the tools that you had an expectation of them utilizing to build and be successful at creating an incredible building. Same thing goes for an architect. You wouldn't just hand them a copy of Revit and go, you'll figure it out, you're fine. you got it sure they could play but why would you not provide the proper training and education so that they can be the best they can be yeah that's a very good analogy you know you're not going to hand somebody a saw without teaching them how to use it you know power saw so is the first step you talked about bringing it in and looking at all the things that you're doing and saving time and doing that case study to see how it works in your firm. Is the first step taking an inventory of all of those pieces, of all of those different processes that we have in our firms, and then picking one at a time and doing those experiments? So when I had my own smaller firms, I did have to take it sort of systematically like that. Now with having a team by my side, we really do come into a firm. Maybe we do a half day, full day, multiple day workshops where we begin journey mapping and documenting possible use cases across the board, everything from ops admin to marketing biz dev to the architects themselves. Maybe if you've got engineering on staff, how are you also bringing that in? And how do those pieces all connect together? And then even more so, how is all of that part of building your intellectual property? How are you thinking about as you're investing in tools and your employees are getting smarter, better, faster? How are you also documenting that so that the entire company can really have gain share in success so that it can continuously build and improve? And I've had so many people say, why would you ever sell your own small business and go to work for a larger company? And I will actually have to tell you, it's for reasons just like that, because I get to go to an entire team of data scientists and say, we need to build a model that can help business owners begin to capture intellectual property so that it can map to a positive, strong future for them. And how can it become a learning model that is self-educating their users and how to continuously get better? Because frankly, now, Mark, I know that you'll, I'm sure you've seen this, but if one employee leaves and they were one of your super users, it's like 50 employees leaving, right? I mean, they're taking how they've used the model. And if there hasn't been any learning and sharing of how did I get here, you are losing a lot more than one employee anymore. And so there has to be a way to, you know, not tap into people's brains, but really become an opportunity once again for mentorship and sharing, which is another place that I think architects are superior. That mentorship piece, bringing up younger architects, really showing them the way. It's something that I think we really need to also be thinking about when it comes to AI adoption. Could you just talk a little bit about what Answer Rocket is and what you do and then what your role in Answer Rocket is, which would lead us into how you actually do that with an architecture firm? Absolutely. So Answer Rocket started in 2013 when the four founders realized that every time they needed some information out of data, they'd go to the analysts, the analysts would take a month to come back to them with the answer. And they'd say, well, but what I really needed was, and then they'd go back out and they all came from tech backgrounds and realized there's got to be a way that we can automate this and tap into our own data so that we can begin to have a conversation with it. That's where AnswerRocket really began was they built out some very complex AI models, machine learning. They were thinking about how can you tie machine learning and data together in order to make sense of information in a much more expedious manner. Fast forward to, I believe it was 2023, they did see that being just a technology company alone was really not going to address where the world was going in AI and connected with some of the really, I think, most successful consulting firms. And they brought in, they like to refer to it as bringing the band back together, but they'd all had experiences in life with other senior contributors in the consulting space. And they built it out as a consulting firm that has this unbelievable bench of brilliant builders in the background. And so, you know, like I said, my practice is the newest because like the rest of the world, they forgot there needs to be a people first adoption. And so what I get to do alongside them is whenever we are meeting with clients, my team and I come along and we begin to listen and hear, where are you in your AI journey? Are you at the beginning, the middle, the end? Tell us about your firm. What I'm asking is very different than maybe what my developers are asking, but of equal importance when it really gets to know what is this company actually looking for? I actually like to even ask the hard question of the C-suite in the owners. Tell me about your AI use. How comfortable are you? Because more than likely, they are the least secure and the ones that are charged with making the big investment. And from there, then we generally recommend a course of trainings. We are a deliverable-based organization. We're not a typical consulting firm where you just pay us hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. We want to see you be successful. So we bring back to the table then either custom models and solutions that we're building out or strictly consulting services where we are connecting you with the models. I am fortunate as well that they are one of a very small number of Anthropic partners around the world. So I get to work with Anthropic every week on thinking about the future of AI and thinking about the safe, effective use of AI and how does it really align with the way that humans think through personal productivity and how can I make this matter for me? And now how do I tie that back to actual business use cases and results? And it is the most fun I've ever had and certainly the hardest I've ever worked, but I can't think of a time in my life where I couldn't wait to go to work every day. Anthropic is the parent company to Claude of Claude. Yes, thank you. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they are the parent company of Claude. So through your work, you're working with architecture firms and contractors and AEC people. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing when you get into a company and see what they've already done? You know, I think one of the first places that I see is the assumption that if I invest in it, the people will come or that once again, I don't need to show them how to use it. They're using it. They're fine. Or assuming that if I tell them they can't use it and I'm only going to give you a licensor to, let's say, one model, Copilot is a great example. Great product, certainly tied to an M365 license, really powerful. But if you tell your employees that they only may use that, I can promise you 100% that there is a large percentage of your employees that have downloaded a different model to their phone and are performing what's referred to as shadow AI. And when they're not getting the answer they're looking for, they're still uploading your data and they are still asking for answers from multiple models. And there needs to be a strategic conversation about why would you invest in more than one model? How do you do it safely? What is the correct level of licensure? How do you even set it up to begin with to keep you protected? Or maybe do you just need, if you're a really large organization, do you just need a custom model built out yourself? What are the other tools that are available as well? Should we invest in every tool just because they say they have AI built in? Or actually, can people be trained to use the tools that you've given them to perform many of the exact same steps and workflows that all of these other tools that you're wanting to spend money on. Once again, it comes back to training the human, but recognizing that humans are self-sustaining creatures. We are in protection mode at all time. How do I protect me? What does this mean for me? If I'm using AI, am I at risk? Am I at risk with my data? Am I at risk over my job? Helping your employees to truly understand that you are investing in them and you are also investing in their next level of education because you as a team want to continue to succeed. So I think for me, those are the two main areas because if you can't get past those, you're just not gonna get much further down the road. Let's take a quick break to say thank you to our sponsors for their support of this episode. This episode of Entree Architect Podcast is sponsored by RCAT. If you've been listening to this podcast for any length of time, you've heard me talk about the importance of building systems that save time and reduce friction in your practice. That's exactly why I recommend RCAT. When I need product information or specifications, CAD details, BIM objects, or sustainability documentation, I don't want to hunt through dozens of manufacturer websites or fill out forms just to download a file. With RCAT, I can find what I need fast and everything is free to access. No subscription, no paywall. In fact, you don't even need to register with your email address. Just go to rcat.com, search for the product information you need, and get back to serving your clients. Thousands of architects use Rcat every day because it simply makes work easier. Visit rcat.com and see why. That's rcat, A-R-C-A-T dot com. It doesn sound much different than when everybody was adopting BIM and you needed to train people on how to use it but also you needed to develop standards and protocols And because if you don they make it up themselves and then you have a mess And this is that plus X number level above it. You had mentioned protection several times. What does that look like? Let's say specifically for a small firm, maybe a firm of 10 people or less, what are some of the things that we should be doing to make sure that we are protected? A couple of different things, Mark. Setting up a, you want to actually begin with addressing AI use. You don't want to just assume everybody is going to do it the way that you want them to by at least establishing a governance statement. And, you know, we all have handbooks, we all have operating manuals. Adding that in just puts everybody on notice that we understand that this is here and we understand that you're going to be using this. This is our current thoughts and approach to this. You know, you can decide how broad you want that to be, how tight you want that to be, but it does need to be part of an HR conversation. Then you need to really be thinking about at what level are you investing? If you ask your employees to pay for their own AI models, they are going to either go with a free model or they're going to go with the lowest price option they can find because we are all thinking about all the dollars that are running out. And you're really missing an amazing opportunity for everyone to begin to actually share how you can begin to connect your models together, connect them to some of your own internal resources, whether that is a Microsoft account, a G drive. There are so many connectors now that are really allowing us to think about how are we taking our work to the next level? But you have to be careful with those, right? Because just giving it free reign and saying, well, I'm just going to connect to everything does open you up for the ability for the AI to get into your system if you're not smart about it. I think the same goes for agents and agentic build. We've got an entire division at Answer Rocket And that is their only job is to build and maintain agents and to have a clear understanding of how are you orchestrating those? And how is that expert in the loop always the last stopping point before any agent takes any action on your behalf? And how is that set up correctly from the start? I mean, we're all excited about agents. A year ago, nobody had ever even hardly heard the word. Now everybody's talking about my chief of staff and all of these incredible agents that's they're building. But you have to be careful of those powerful tools because those tools do now have access to your desktop and they have access to your systems. So understanding, once again, the rules of the road and getting very clear on how to set those up. And here's my favorite sort of insight. If you don't know how to even begin to do that, ask the AI to teach you how to do that. Ask it to become its own safety orchestrator and to walk you through setting it up. And what should I be thinking about? What should I be aware of? How can I keep my company and my team protected? But at minimum, you should be paying for the... If you're expecting your team to use AI on your behalf, then at minimum, you need to actually pay for that license so that you are all sharing in the same success. And you can also set some of those guardrails internally. Like any other tool that we're using in our firms, right? You know, email, anything. Yeah, we shouldn't be using our personal Revit accounts, right? The firm should be praying for Revit and BIM tools. It's an expense and I get that. And especially for a smaller firm where, you know, every dollar counts. I get that. And that is a hard investment to look at. That's one of the reasons why I do suggest for right now, all of those other products that are coming at you like crazy with, but we've got AI, we can do all these things. Start with the basics, understand what can be done with the large language models that are available today in a safe and effective manner. And then if you absolutely cannot get what you need from that, then you can begin to explore, is this tool a good tool for me? And by the way, once again, invite your AI system to review those tools and allow it to be a part of your really truly conversation about, I'm assessing this tool for possible use. Here are the things that we are needing. Here's our investment bandwidth. Help me either go or no go on this tool or what other tools are out there that I'm not aware of. It just becomes that thinking partner, even when it comes to reviewing tools. Yeah, that's a very interesting point. What are some of the things that architecture firm owners should be looking at in terms of AI beyond their typical productivity tools? I think everybody at this point has downloaded the app for ChatGPT or Claude and ask it questions throughout the day and help it develop their ideas and those kind of things. but for an architecture firm specifically what are some of the things that they should be looking at beyond that to be able to use ai i love what you just said about looking at all these tools that are being thrown at us we get emails every day hundreds of them saying hey we have the tool that's going to solve your problem and i love the idea of saying okay let's just look at claude and see if claude can do what we need it to do and then how do we maximize the use of claude or chat GPT or whatever tool you're using, Gemini, before we start bringing in these other tools. I'm going to actually go back to the, what are some other ways beyond productivity? And when I think, especially here we are in June of 26, when I think of AI's ability to actually look and review drawings and begin to map those drawings. And by the way, conversationally. So you could upload a drawing and now start having a conversation with your AI bot about this drawing. Here are the red lines I'm looking for. Here are the inconsistencies. You know, here's where I'm seeing some concerns. What are your thoughts? Can you see something I'm not seeing? I want you to turn it, shift it, change it. Help me think about what is the positioning of this building? Can you help me begin to even think about and future cast based on past weather history, based on even thinking about companies that are moving into the area? If the developer decides to put this building where they are thinking, let's help them think about this as a long-term investment based on the predictable patterns of people moving into the area. But also as our earth continues to shift, traffic patterns shift, is this building ideally situated on this piece of land so that we are absolutely maximizing everything from wind shear to traffic patterns to most likely line of sight for if it's a retail? How are people going to be seeing this building and have that, oh, I need to stop there moment by predicting how humans interact with buildings? And you can have those conversations, which I find fascinating. One of the recommendations that I make to every client that I work with is that if you are not using AI in voice mode or at minimum in transcription mode so that you are literally walking around talking to it. You've got your drawing up on your multiple screens or maybe you've got an old drawing out in front of you, maybe the original structure's drawing. You're trying to figure out for this, somebody sent you an old roll, now you're trying to put an edition on there and you don't even have access to any old CAD drawings. You are literally going to be able to walk around and talk to yourself or talk to your assistant about what am I seeing? I've got this strong intellectual knowledge. I am a trained, licensed architect. I'm seeing things that the AI bot is not going to see based on my experience. But guess what? The AI bot is also seeing what other architects are talking about. So now ask it. Go out. Go find me some other solutions. Here's the solution I'm thinking of, But what else could there be? What am I not thinking about? What new materials are out that are just, you know, the rep hasn't contacted me. What else can I be thinking about and doing and be my thinking partner? But that voice mode or the transcription mode is magical for that because you're not spending as much time just typing and you are physically up either walking around and talking or at minimum not getting caught up in your typing ability and you are leaning into the natural language processing that makes AI work so well. And you can just talk about it as the expert you already are before the conversation ever began. Yeah, I love that because you can dive into a project like you never have been able to before because not only do you have this tool that will help you and will give you that feedback. But it happens very quickly, right? That this is an opportunity that wouldn't we all love to dive into our projects and take them beyond where we thought they could, or even where the client potentially asked us to, but we didn't have the time in the past to be able to do that. Cause you know, it just took too long to do that kind of research and get that kind of feedback. It would involve other people where you'd have to have multiple billable people in the same room in order to have that conversation and then start doing research to find out how you do these things. This, load your drawing, pin your drawing on the wall, have a conversation with the AI and just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper and ask it all different kinds of questions. And imagine how developed your concept of a project becomes when you go back to talk to your client. They don't know that you've had all those conversations. They don't know that you've had the deep research, but you're coming back with these amazing ideas and suggestions that aren't even part the scope of the project. You know, I love that you brought the client up too, because when I was at the architecture firm, this was something that they leaned into very early was image production and ideation, not to replace them as architects, whatever it came up with, they knew they weren't going to build it. But here's where I am seeing so many architects who can allow themselves to get past the fear. They are actually taking the conversations with the owner about the owner's hopes and dreams of this commercial building, of this residence, of this hospital, whatever it might be. They are really talking about what matters to them and why are they wanting to build this project. Now you can begin to, much like when we used to all pull in all the Google images or before that, you were cutting stuff out and taping it up. You can have the AI become part of your thinking partner as you are beginning to explore design concepts, not to replace your ability as an architect, but to allow you to generate, think through, process faster and faster. You can ask for more, more, more. And if something comes out and you go, ooh, wait a minute, but I'm not sure how to get there. I mean, I've been an architect for 20 years or whatever, 30 years. this is showing me something I've never considered before. I'm not even quite sure how to unpack that. I've got a great example of when I'm not in my day job, I'm a glass sculptor and have been for about 40 years. And right now I'm working on some very large scale exterior glass sculptures. I'm not an engineer. I'm the creative. I understand very carefully how to melt glass, heaped, I mean, all of the parts that go into it. And when I've built really large sculptures before, the engineering piece is always the part that ends up biting me in the butt, because I'm not anticipating thinking about the shifts in temperature as the sun is hitting glass and expansion contraction all those things Just literally this weekend I was sitting outside early in the morning having my coffee and I was working in a sketchbook because I still do sketches I fed my sketch for the first time to one of my bots and said, this is going to be quite an engineering. There's a thousand pieces of glass built into this structure. I need it to light up from the inside. It is also going to be on a hill. We need to be thinking about X. I can't even begin to picture the engineering of this. And in the past, I would have just built it anyway and made a lot of mistakes. Hope for the best. You know, which was fine. I love that piece of it. But I do have to tell you, it gave me one of the most astonishing engineering drawings that took my hand sketch, turned it into a, you know, into a dimensionalized sketch, and then broke down every single step in recommendations. And I literally was walking around my yard, frankly, in my pajamas with my coffee, just talking to the bot as I was walking around this piece of land. The engineering concept was so far beyond of what I could have imagined on my own. And I think that when you think about architecture, it's okay to dream and to know where your expertise lies and then always ask for more. Keep learning. How could I do this? Take the skin off. Let's unpack this. Where can this go? How can I find who else in the world is having this type of conversation? Connect me with them. Connect me with the right engineers. I love it. Sorry, that's a really long story, but... No, it's awesome. And I know listeners are super excited about that story because it inspires them as well. My favorite thing to do, and it's become a hobby, is to just sit down with AI and just dream about possibilities. Like, what if? Where could this go? Like, how far can I push this? If it was at its fullest potential, what could this become? And it has spawned so many ideas for me that people are seeing come out now. And you're seeing things get rolled out. A lot of those were inspired by conversations that I've had with ChatGPT or Claude, where I just keep pushing it and keep pushing it and pushing it. Because as I push it, it pushes me. And I say, well, that's a good idea. Well, what if I did this, this, and this? And then it comes back and, well, it says, well, what if you did this, this, and this? and then you keep pushing back. And it's so much fun to just go and explore and see what things can happen. It's a lot of fun to do that. And you can do that with design and architecture and all the things that we're doing as architects. I do that a lot when I'm taking a break in the middle of the day and I've got a couple of dogs and I just need to get up from my desk. Otherwise I'm happy to sit here all day and get up from the desk. I'll still take my phone with me. And then I'm going to start talking about a strategy, an idea. this client I met with this morning, or maybe even better, I'm in the car between meetings, between appointments, or I'm at the airport. And I am like, all right, here's who I met with. Here was some of the things we talked about. Here's a copy of the approved transcript. They knew I was recording the meeting. We got to start exploring this right now. I need you to prepare some emails to my engineers. I want them to start thinking about how do we build this? I need you to start doing the research on this topic and build me out a dossier so that I get a clear understanding of the concept the client was asking for. Then I want you to, by the way, go order my DoorDash because I'm just getting home from the airport, whatever it might be. It is just through this voice and you are thinking. But I also think there's a human connection there, Mark, as well. That if you are allowing your body to move, like I used the dog walk experience, your brain actually begins to loosen up a little bit and you can ideate so much better than a butt in the chair because you are getting some fresh air. Your body is moving. It allows your brain to free up. And I think when it comes to ideation, it is a superpower. It also works great at 3 a.m. when I don't know, but I'm going to guess you also have a very active mind like I do. So very often at 3am, my brain is wide awake with, oh my gosh, and I'm thinking about this and I want to do that. I've built out a bot for myself and its only job is to say to me, tell me everything you're thinking about. Great. I want you to know I wrote it all down. It's here. We're not going to discuss any of it tonight, but you should know that when you get up tomorrow morning at five, it is here and it's waiting. Such a good idea. And we can explore it, but I refuse to have a conversation with you about any of these. I almost always go right back to sleep because my brain goes, oh, thank goodness somebody else is holding that for me. Right. And, and you know that it's there that you can go back to it in the morning. Cause that's usually what happens is that the ideas come and then your brain starts to go over them and ruminate and it's just, right. You don't want, right. You don't want to forget the idea. And so you keep thinking about it. Yeah. Good or bad. For sure. Yeah. I love that. I love that hack. As we wrap up here, and before we get to my final question, everybody that I talk to who talks about AI, I want to get your thoughts on the future of the architecture firm. And I'm not going too far. Let's say three years from now, because that's an eternity for AI. Yes. What does a small firm architecture firm look like in the next three years? I love that question. The small firm architect, the small architecture firm in three years from now, now you're right. I feel like I can hardly predict next week, let alone three years from now, but they have become a confident AI native user where they still understand the expert in the loop and their experience as architects. And the senior architects and the junior architects are continuing to mentor each other. The senior architects who are carrying that tribal knowledge and maybe 20, 30, 40, 50 years of architectural client experience are actually teaching the younger architects who are coming in who are incredibly AI native, but perhaps don't have the full breadth of experience. And they are understanding how they can support each other. But as an AI native firm, they are also understanding what can I hand to the AI that is not replacing me, but that is my true thinking partner and absolutely aligns to our brand and our very strict expectations about how we are represented in the world. And it upholds that again and again and again. And really, truly moving forward with that type of confidence is where I think now will invite all the ideation and all the other exciting things in. I think it's an incredible future for architecture firms. I agree. It's super exciting for me. I am an optimist forever, and I am super excited about where the practice of architecture is going to go and the profession and the professionals who are leading it. Last question. What's one thing that a small firm architect can do today to build a better business for tomorrow? They can stop asking their employees to buy their own AI, and they can invest in that for them. And then at minimum, invest in some training for them so that they are part of the future and you are trusting them as adults to also be a part of the firm's success in future. Excellent. Excellent. Keep loving the adult environment. It is the best. I have a follow-up question to that. And I usually don't do follow-ups. I usually just wrap things up. But when you buy the AI for your team, do they have access to it for their personal use as well? So they do. They do. And by the way, unless you're at the highest level of enterprise licensure, you actually can't see anybody's check. Right. Right. So, you know, I do recommend to employees, keep your own model for your own use case. I mean, if you're in the middle of the day and you just need to ask a personal question, ask the personal question. But if you really want to use it for personal, keep a separate personal account. But mostly that's just because if you, you know, if you win the lottery and you decide to move to Tahiti, you want to take your conversations with you. And you're the business owner owns those conversations and they own all of the data that's involved in it. So you both just need to protect yourself. But, you know, sure, humans are humans. We just, you know, wow, this tool is so helpful. Could you also help me plan this, you know, family reunion I'm working on? Yeah. Like having a business phone and a personal phone. You should have your own AI and do your personal stuff on your own and do your business. And that should be part of your, as a business owner, should be part of your policy. Just like all the other things that you're asking your employees to do and not do. I agree. And get up from your desk and start talking to people again. Go to networking events, build business. Yeah. Amen. All right. Michelle Hamilton is her name. Answer Rocket is the company. Answerrocket.com if you want to learn more. Also, you can connect to Michelle on LinkedIn. So search her up and we'll actually have a link to Michelle's LinkedIn on the show notes. So if you want to go to the show notes, click the link. It'll be there. Michelle, thank you very much for coming by and very interesting conversation. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your knowledge at Andre Architect Podcast. All right. Super. Have a great day. if you enjoyed this episode of entre architect podcast please share a link with a friend because that's how we've continued to grow and serve thousands more small firm architects just like you thank you to our sponsors for this episode links to the sponsors and all the resources we discussed today they are all available in the show notes for this episode at entrearchitect.com slash podcast. Entree Architect is a proud member of the Gable Media Network. It's the multimedia network moving the architecture, engineering, and construction industries forward through the power of storytelling. You can earn AIA continuing education credits by listening to select episodes of this podcast and many others at gablemedia.com slash members. And if you are a small firm architect, listen up. Join us today at Entree Architect Network. It's the worldwide community for entrepreneur architects. We've been around since 2012, and our basic level is now free to join. Yes, you can join Entree Architect Network for free. And that gives you access to valuable business resources and our global community of architects. And you can upgrade anytime for live coaching, AIA-approved training, and mastermind support. So visit entrearchitect.com to learn more and to get started. My name is Mark Arlepage. Thank you for listening to the Entre Architect podcast. Love, learn, share. Something is changing in how we build, and it's not just the tools. It's what we value, what we keep, what we hand to machines, and what we hold on to. I'm Deb Johnston. And I'm Reg Prentice. This is To Build is Human, a podcast for the people navigating what it means to build in a moment when everything around them is changing. We need teams of people who are focused on making stuff better in our industry that are software people. And we need to hire those people in and give them roles where either they don't have billability expectations or give us billability expectations and let us solve problems for our clients. Everyone can benefit in all areas of continuously improvement. Every role that I've held has taught me something new, not just in tech, but about people, about process and about purpose. As architect, you go into these options. They have to be empowering. They have to just open the door and be used as a catalyst to propel for betterment and not be a hindrance. So I can't open up any one of these systems or tools that bring a form of automation and bind myself to it. So even with the world of AI and machine learning now, I keep stressing that the human factor can never, ever go away. Find us wherever you listen. you