Get Rich or Get Replaced: The AI Wake-Up Call

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-iHeart. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target He is not going to get away with this He's going to get what he deserves We always say that Trust your girlfriends Listen to the girlfriends Trust me babe On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts I got you, I got you A win is a win A win is a win I don't care what y'all say Yep, that's me Clifford Taylor IV You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. hey hey this is john o'briant and this is the money and wealth podcast series season three on the iheart radio platform on the black effect network thank you everyone for making this podcast one of the top 50 for entrepreneurship in the nation top 150 200 for business and top 250 in the world on every continent for entrepreneurship and business and an NAACP nominee for their Image Awards. We're on the move. And today is one of those special episodes where I bring a guest on. As you know, if you've been following me, oftentimes I just spend an hour, 45 minutes or an hour, pouring into you myself on a topic that I believe that I have proficiency in. I bring guests on when two plus two equals six, eight, or 10. When the relationship is defined as better together. It's multiplication, not just addition. A Michael Milken, an ambassador, Andrew J. Young, a Bishop, T.D. Jakes, someone who's top of the mark, Tony Ressler's coming, who owns the Atlanta Hawks and built so many companies. And today is one of those days. I have my brother from another mother, my dear friend, an underrated genius, Van Jones, who you probably know as a global CNN commentator, co-host, and journalist. You know him politically. You know him from wherever you know him from. I know him slightly differently. Let me break this down as we talk about. And by the way, I'm honored to introduce him today also as the co-chair with me for Hope AI, which will give you some sense of what this conversation is about today. So honored to have Van as my co-chair of Hope AI. And to tell you how intentional this is, my co-chair for Financial Literacy for All was Doug McMillan, I'm the CEO of Walmart and is now the CEO of Delta Airlines, Ed Bastian, for 2026. My co-chair for the AI Ethics Council is Sam Altman. And so I'm honored to have the co-chair of the future of AI with Van Jones. Here's what you don't know about Van. Undergraduate degree, University of Tennessee. There we go. A bachelor's degree in communications and political science from there. law degrees, law school, Yale Law School. Did you know that? A Juris Doctorate, a JD. And I believe you also went to MIT. Is that right? A fellow at MIT, a professor and a fellow at Princeton, a couple of places like that that I don't talk about a lot because I got my best education from Willie Jones and Loretta Jones in Little Jackson, Tennessee, where I grew up. Amen. Let's get into this, Van. By the way, is there anything else that the audience would not know that's not obvious that we should share for context for this conversation as far as your background, your focus, where you're spending your time, your intellect? I know you spend a lot of time reading and studying the world. Look, I mean, I think a lot of times people think I was born on the set of CNN. Right next to the internet, just boom. Right. That would have been gross. Exactly. No, no, long before, you know, I've been on TV for about 14 years. But, you know, before that, I was mainly focused on, you know, Black stuff, tough communities, constituencies, built the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, colorofchange.org, Reform Alliance, Green for All and other organizations trying to get Black folks. out of jail into jobs. That's been my fundamental kind of commitment. And I'm very proud to have gotten legislation passed, signed by George W. Bush and Donald Trump, but also got a chance to work for Barack Obama in the White House and work for Joe Biden. There's another first. He was the first environmental advisor to any president of the United States of America in the history of country. It was an advisor to President Barack Obama. Is that right? Yeah. The first clean energy green jobs advisor ever and the legislation that I got a chance to help implement when I was at the White House level actually was the main advocate for when I got George W. Bush to sign it. So I really have fought my whole life to try to figure out what is the Black future? How can we get black communities and other underrepresented over underestimated communities uh the hope and help that we need to be able to not be victims but to actually be architects of the future that's been my main thing so that's why i focused on solar energy and the that revolution that's why i focused on you know alternatives to incarceration so we don't lose so much black genius to jail cells and um you know i got a chance to work with prince uh for six years helped him with his philanthropy He backed me on Yes, We Code. And that's really where I want to kind of start if I can, John, because Reverend Jackson passing away to me has been a life changing event because he was a person who opened up doors for me in Silicon Valley back in 2012, 2013, 2014, when Silicon Valley was a completely black box. We had no idea where the technology companies hiring any African-Americans were being promoted. It was completely a black box. It was Reverend Jackson who bought some shares in some of these companies and went to those shareholder meetings and encouraged them to open up the books. And it turned out that African-Americans were woefully underrepresented in Silicon Valley. And so Prince and I launched a campaign called Yes, We Code. now yes we can yes we code to begin to try to get more opportunity and um and we were working with with uh facebook meta now and other groups and i and i saw things and then also being a fellow at mit um for two years i learned a lot about technology and i learned a lot about how technology is going to determine a lot about the future and the importance of us being present and so uh before van goes any further i'm gonna do what i don't do a lot i'm gonna shut up this whole podcast let him talk because i think he's that brilliant i want to say something to the audience we've got to stop being offended and start being affected and being effective stop being offended stop getting your feelings hurt right stop being obsessed with with how somebody's saying something and figure about what they're saying and what's the meaning behind what they're saying and seeing if you can let's just stop stepping over mess not in it van is working to i mean net net net to to advance uh all people with an emphasis on our people yeah and uh what he's done around criminal justice reform i i'm not crazy about some of the folks he's worked with But, you know, somebody asked me before, are you going to go to the president, go to dinner with President Bush and President Clinton? Like, well, yeah, I'm going to go to dinner with President Bush because I respect him. I'm going to go to dinner with President Clinton because I like him. Actually, I like President Bush now, too. But I'm still going to dinner. Right. It's really interesting. We love President Bush today. We call him the devil. Please come back. Exactly. That was true. You didn't know how good we had it back in those days. Look, I appreciate it. Capitalists, they called me a Republican. 20 years ago, they didn't understand what I was doing. They didn't understand what I was doing. They called me all kinds of names. And now, you know, I mean, whatever. I mean, all that stuff is falling away. And I stayed focused on this mission of making capitalists work for all of God's children and bringing people and dragging people into the future and talking to people straight. And I just want people to go to the DNA, go to the core of Van Jones and say, is that the truth? Is what he's saying accurate? Is what he's doing important? And you're about to hear an example of that in this podcast. And he's working in areas where most of us are not working, where people most of us don't have access to. I don't know anybody else got $100 million from a tech billionaire to do as he likes, which is what he got from. There's another thing from Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Jeff didn't give him $100 million. He had nothing else to do. He did it because he thought Van was the most effective dude he'd met. And the story goes on and on and on. Get to know this guy as a person and as a mentalist and as a brilliant thinker. and then let's figure out whether we can benefit from what he's saying and what he's doing because I sure am over to you Van Jones who I love well I appreciate it and what I would just say to anybody is like I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea and that's perfectly fine with me like I I don't know that's true but anyway go ahead well I'm just I'm just saying it'd be like my soul is rested John because I've been so blessed you know my father was born in a shotgun shack in Memphis Tennessee or on Cable Street in Orange Mound Memphis anybody knows anything about Tennessee knows what what I've said Orange Mound that was the toughest roughest black neighborhood and he came out of there and joined the military and put himself through college and married the college president's daughter my mother and put his brother through college and a cousin through college and me and my twin sister through college. And when he died, the picture they put on the funeral program was my father standing in front of Yale Law School with his arms in the air saying, look, look at what we've done. And so, you know, my father was pleased with me. And when you have that, you know, that's enough. You know, somebody loved your mother, your grandmother, whoever it was, that if you can look at those people who saw you when you were little and were struggling, and they're pleased with you, then the world, you know, at best has a number two vote. Amen. I've been, Black folks, I mean, sometimes we don't think it all the way through. People fought hard for me, John, to be able to go to the University of Tennessee at Martin on a minority scholarship. I never met those people, but somebody had to have an argument, a fight to say, listen, And these public schools in Tennessee are still almost all white. And somebody fought and they said, we got to put a minority scholarship program together at the University of Tennessee. They fought for me to be able to get that. And I got it. Somebody at Yale Law School fought to say, listen, 10,000 kids apply to Yale Law School. We only let in 120. So if we can find a kid that's got an outstanding LSAT score, 96 percentile, is a black kid from the rural south and the state school. we need to let that kid have a chance. I don't know who that person was, but they fought for me. I took advantage of that. And on down the line, people were fighting to open doors for kids like me. I was born in 68, right the same year they killed Dr. King. But what we have to think about is if you fought for me to get into Yale and into Princeton and into MIT, when I come back, I might be a little bit different. You can't fight to get kids like me into all these institutions and expect us to come home exactly the same. So I need some mercy and some grace for my people to say, if you wanted me to go to all these places and maybe I see the world a little bit different, can we make that an advantage for all of us? Can we add what I learned to what you learned and what you know? And now we're all smarter together. That's how I want to be. But what I learned along the way, I do see things very differently. um i know what's coming with this technology i don't have to guess i was just at a conference uh that peter diamandis uh convened called the abundance conference peter diamandis is somebody that whose name everyone should begin to learn because he's white guy uh he's been uh the center of the technological revolution exponential technology he's the inventor of the x prize he's written a number of books including the future is faster than you think and his conference pulls together the biggest people in deep tech in the world i'm talking about people who are doing quantum computing ai biotech robotics mining as getting ready to mine asteroids in space i mean this is it's and it's a small group of people john it's not a whole bunch of people um and they have big brains some of them have big hearts but they they would admit they're a little bit monochromatic. I've got a chance to Can you explain what you just said? A lot of them are the same color. That color is not black. A little bit white. And so... And they're green, too. They got a lot of money. Got a lot of green. And so I'm so blessed because Peter Diamandis has opened his heart and network and said, listen, you know, I want you to see what's happening and give me your reflections. And we've developed a great friendship. you've been trying to warn people and alert people that a big change is coming and what i what i want to tell you is the big change is now here these guys have been saying the singularity is coming and the singularity is this event where the the exponential growth curve of technology goes vertical and so that's the so this is the first time i've heard i've known peter for a long time the first time i've heard him say the singularity is not coming the singularity is here. We are now going straight up. And what that means is you may have noticed every week, every day, there's some new breakthrough in AI capability that would have been the news of the decade just three years ago. And now it's not even the news of the Twitter cycle because these agents now are so capable. And so what I told Peter. Explain what an agent is, please. We're a great example, everybody. It's a great example. Normally, if some Wall Street geek or I've got some Michael Milken or some genius on here, I've got to say, slow down. I need to translate what you're saying here. And I need to go from PhD to PhD. I'm with my brother, Van Jones from Da Hood, D-A-8-A-O-D-O, who's now, I'm having to translate for him, get him to translate and convert what he's saying in real time because he lives in this other world and people don't know necessarily. They're really smart people. They don't know what an AI agent is. They don't know who Peter didn't mind. So we're going to have to stop and walk folks through the good thing is that John and I are building Hope AI to make sure that you can understand this stuff better than anybody in the world and that's coming. We're building it aggressively. Both of our teams are working on it. So if some of this stuff sounds a little bit weird, just see it as a trailer for a movie. This podcast is a trailer. Hope AI is the trilogy that's coming. So just relax. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. and rule two never mess with her friends either we always say that trust your girlfriends i'm anna sinfield and in this new season of the girlfriends oh my god this is the same man a group of women discover they all dated the same prolific con artist i felt like i got hit by a truck I thought how could this happen to me The cops didn seem to care so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to The Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I got you. place they come look for up and coming talent he said if it was based solely on talent i wouldn't worry about you which is really sweet yeah he goes but there's so much luck involved and he's like just give it a shot he goes but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore it's okay to quit if you saw it written down it would not be an inspiration it would not be on a calendar of you know the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what y'all say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor IV. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I will just back it up a bit. And thank you for, I do get ahead of myself, John. No, you're just brilliant. I love it. You're more sexy, brother. Yeah, well, the way I would say it is that there are seven or eight trillion dollar industries that are taking off at the same time. Maybe that's the best way to phrase it. So robotics is taking off. Biotech is taking off. Quantum is taking off. AI is taking off. No, what's quantum? OK, so quantum computing is the next form of computation to give you a set. What's computation? Okay. Okay. So the way that your computer reasons and drives through data is based on old physics. There's a new figure, an updated form of physics is quantum physics. And quantum physics uses something called superposition, which is, we'll take too long to explain. But the practical effect of it is these computers are going to be 10,000 X faster than what you have. So what does that mean? That means cyber changes instantly. Your little password that you have protecting your computer, a normal computer, if you try to break that, it might take a million years. This thing might be able to break it in that afternoon. So it's just a completely different level of computational power that is almost impossible to comprehend. That's coming. Let me help you out here. So when our parents were growing up, computers were big as a building. Yes. One computer as big as an office building or a small warehouse. And then you got it into a, then Bill Gates time, you got it into one room. And then Steve Jobs and others got it on your, on your laptop. Well, on your laptop. And now this is a computer. It's on your phone. Okay. That's a smartphone. It's a computer. And what Van Jones is telling you now is that this is getting to a point where you'll have a computer on the tip of your, on the tip of your finger. and that computer on the tip of your finger will do 10x or in some cases 100x. The speed and the power and the computation ability, the ability to process both content and time of anything you've ever seen, and it's going straight up. We're now on the vertical. We're on the vertical, and it's happening right now. So again, we don't have time to be arguing. We don't have time to be disagreeing with each other. We don't have time to figure out whether you like somebody or not like somebody. Like the world is moving, whether you like it or not. And we need to get on this train and you need to figure out who's next to you and decide you there's something about them you like, because that's your secret. All right. Buckle up and let's go. Back to you, Van. Good. So you have these trillion dollar industries that are jumping off. And on the one hand, it's, you know, you don't have a lot of African Americans in particular participating. But at the same time, even though we're on the vertical, the growth is still to come. So there's opportunities to get in. There's opportunities to participate. There's opportunities and the necessity to get in, which I'll get to in a minute. But I think the most important thing that I can say is that there's something called, these are all terms that you can just look up, called accelerationism. All that is, is the people who are in the computer science world and the AI world who want to go as fast as possible. Those people who have always said, let's go, go, go, go, go. At this conference last week, the first time I've heard them say, hold on a second. This is going so fast that now we're getting scared. Never heard that from the accelerationist crowd. And they invited me to speak to an important subsection of that gathering, the patrons, the people who write the bigger checks. And it's like, what do you see? And so I want to tell your audience, I've never I haven't spoken about this publicly at all. I've been waiting to tell your audience what I told this incredibly select group of billionaires and more who have been driving this thing as they're sitting there looking at these at what these things can do. Oh, the agents. Sorry. So when you have ChatGPT, that's just it's called a chat bot. It's basically it's just it's basically just predicting the next word. And so even though it seems super brilliant, it's really just a prediction machine. And it has to it can't do very much except answer your questions like a glorified Google search. It's like a Google search through all of human knowledge. An agent is not that. An agent. So now you're going from Chatwt to say Claude. An agent can do stuff. So explain to people what Claude is, just very briefly. Okay. So Claude is created by a company called Anthropic. The founder who left, he was once with that OpenAI. So Dario, someone who's a friend of mine and John's left OpenAI, created Anthropic, wanting to create something with a few more guardrails, what to make it a little bit more ethical, but he made a business decision that has changed the direction of the entire AI world. Open AI decided they were going to go for just general growth, get as many people engaged as possible. Anthropic didn't have that much capital. They said, well, we're going to focus on enterprise. are going to focus on business and create things that are useful for businesses. And what they created, they're not the only people that created, but what they've, I think, perfected are these things called agents, which means you and your bot, your agent, can do a lot more work. You could tell your agent, hey, I've got this tough problem to solve, this business problem to solve. I got this tough coding problem to solve. I'm going to go to bed and bot, you solve it. This is very important, audience. It's very important, very important for you to go from a Google search or whatever it is you're searching from, right, to, you know, in a bot on a website to generative AI, generative AI, artificial intelligence. Let's say my friend Sam Altman and I think they're really best in class at this, chat GPT, right? and I'm on chat 50 times a day, so is Van. And then also understand these parallel universes, these other AI platforms that have different emphasis and different focus areas. He just gave you an example of one, Claude.ai, which I also use. And now he just told you something, which this would be the whole podcast, by the way. We're going to cover three or four different things, but this could just be the whole podcast. He told you about an AI agent. This is not your marketing agent. This is not your business agent. This is not your sports agent. This is not your travel agent. This is not your theatrical agent. Okay? Get that out of your head. Okay? We could spend the whole dang podcast, we won't, blowing your mind about what you could do if you had a specialized AI agent. I'm going to ask Van one more time to slow this down and explain to you what an AI agent is. because I think this is the one takeaway. Again, he started off, you can't leave chat and leave it with a task to go sleep at night. You need to give chat a task and chat's going to answer chat GPT. We'll answer that task. And it might people please you a little bit, but we'll answer the task. And you're gonna have to challenge it. You're gonna need to challenge the generative AI because it may give you the right answer in the wrong lane. You gotta be dumb in, dumb out. an ai agent is different okay van go a little deep on this and then go go lateral however you want to go so the thing about um having an agent is or having multiple agents is you can now start creating businesses that have one human being 40 bots and that business can be valued at a billion dollars. This is where you're at now. You're thinking on the one hand, this is a terrible thing because people might lose their jobs. I just want you to focus in on what's happening. Because you could train a bot to take on certain key functions and to do them over and over and over again, very, very fast and very, very accurately with human oversight, you become bionic you become you and all of the bots that you own and control and direct the same way that you direct people as a boss you'll also be directing bots as a boss and this is this has just become possible in the past few months so but the fact that these agents are so capable You have people who have been coding their whole lives, who come across a very, very tough coding problem. They can just tell their bot, will you deal with this? Will you build this? And literally just go to sleep. And when they wake up, a week's worth of work has been done overnight. This is a capability that in the hands of the people who are listening, you, as you're starting your business, you should be thinking, how many humans do I want to employ and how many bots do I want to deploy? This is the new business model, humans and agents, humans to employ agents to deploy. Once you begin to understand that, you begin to realize, hold on a second, what has been my obstacle? If I'm an African-American, I'm Latin, I'm just from an underprivileged background, I'm from Appalachia. I'm Native American. I'm female. I've never been able to get access to enough capital to hire enough people to do all the things that need to get done. Capital is no longer your obstacle. Capital is being displaced by code. Code is replacing capital, which means your creativity is the limit to what you can do. you can literally begin to vibe code. This is capital. Yeah. Now your intellectual capital plus code is actually more valuable than financial capital. And there's a pathway to financial capital. Well, let's stop everybody. The last 50 years, labor made money. Well, money made money on labor. And then in the last 20, 30 years, money made more money on money than money could make on labor. And now what Vance is telling you is that knowledge is how you make money. It's coming. Yeah. I just want to change that one word from knowledge to intelligence. Done. Perfect. Okay. Because intelligence. It doesn't matter. that word matters because let me put it this way 200 years ago if you wanted a glass of water you had to get up out of your bed walk out of your hut or cabin down to a river with a bucket get the water walk back getting glass of water was incredibly labor intensive um you don't know that because you grew up in a world where you could just literally do this and have water. So you don't even appreciate water. Clean, fresh water is a miracle that for 10,000 years, people would fight wars over. You just do this in this water. The same 10,000 years, intelligence was very, very difficult to attain. You would have to be picked to go to a temple to learn, to scribe. There's a library at Timbuktu that had all the books in the world. It burned down. like intelligence was incredibly rare and incredibly valuable in our lifetime you had to go to first grade second grade third grade fourth grade high school college gonna you know be like me go get a fellow do a fellowship at prince and a fellowship at mit just to know stuff now intelligence is right here you can literally with these tools get an awful lot of intelligence on tap on tap. So here's the problem that we have, especially communities who may have been overlooked or underestimated. It's not so much that you now have a bunch of stuff you have to learn. That's true. We have to unlearn the idea that it's going to take us this long. It's going to take us 10 years to build a company. It's going to have to hire a thousand people. I've got to go to get a bank loan. The first thing I have to do is realize you might be able to build a billion-dollar company with two people and a bunch of bots. Let's say a million-dollar company just to make it... True. You can definitely build a million-dollar company with two people and a few bots. 100%. That's available as of, by the way, not September, not possible. not October not possible December possible that's what's going on is that these we went from chat bots being the main thing to agents being the main thing if you understand that what do you do get get on Claude I'm not paid to support Claude I don't have no stake in Claude I've met Dario a couple of times. But my team is starting to use these bots, these agents to super accelerate my research ability so that I'm basically, I'm on path now to being able to give myself the equivalent of a PhD every three months. Wow. Okay. Like all of intelligence that you're gaining from this new water hose. Yes. And this is, I'm certainly, I'm certainly doubling my intelligence level annually because of AI is my co-creator. So, so this is the, the, so I'm going to give you the, so that's the good news, give you some bad news and give you some good news. And then maybe I can come back and I want to have this conversation, but I want to have it with you. Nothing I've said, if you heard me say on CNN, even on my own substack, I am talking to you because you're my co-founder and co-founder on Hope AI. So I want to have this conversation with you. And how much of this have I told you even before this? None of it. We've not talked about any of this before. And I want to talk about either this conversation or next, why Black people in particular, Black and brown people are not only not going to be a liability or be potentially left behind in this AI revolution, but actually might have for the first time almost ever qualities that were overlooked, underrated, not appreciated, but actually in this AI world, actually just might be supersized, super powerful, and invaluable, but we'll get to that as part of this conversation. That's good. We'll close with that. But I think that the short way to say it is qualities and characteristics that you just said that may have been correlated with success in the old system may not be. and qualities that were correlated with failure in the old system may not be Especially hustle creativity innovation the ability to exactly the ability to make unusual connections like all this stuff that people at the margins have to learn how to do to survive. You combine that with these tools also, and all of a sudden you've got, then you're on on the vert on the vertical um the other thing that i think we have to be clear about is that um our uh comfort level with dislocation like you said like sometimes you say that um you know it's just was a crisis for other communities just another tuesday for us that that just like living in constant sort of a disruption you're pre-adapted for the world that you're about to live in because it's going to be new things coming all the time and if you used to have to deal with a different problem every day you're even psychologically and spiritually pre-adapted for some of this stuff um so but so let me just tell you so the good news is for you you can definitely build a successful company with a lot fewer people and you can go a lot faster you can get to an exit a lot faster you might be able to build a billion dollar company and sell it to somebody this year um that that's that's that you should be thinking your expectation should be it's not going to take me 10 years it's going to take me 10 months an audience i want you to think million dollar company million dollars sure but here's the good news you look it's only 10 of black america make 100 000 a year uh actually that's it's sub 10 i want you to think you can make 100 grand right now a year and you don't have to do only fans you don't have to be an influencer you don't have to do anything illegal you don't just you don't have to sell marijuana you don't have to have to be a rapper, you know, you don't need to be in the entertainment business, no disrespect intended to the entertainment business. You can make a hundred grand a year plus, if that's your jam. Yes. Or you can build a seven-figure business in your neighborhood, just servicing your, you don't have to be, you don't have to create a patent, you don't have to create a, you know, in where Gainesville, wherever, you know, you're in Tallahassee, Florida, where you can become the master of your space and build a, build between a six and seven figure enterprise right where you live that creates generational wealth for your family but again van's thinking in the stratosphere he's thinking billions he's because he's not because he's going to be who are going to have trillion dollar businesses i and i respect all that i want you to know that a million is just fine we'll take it nobody's turning down a million i'll say that run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-iHeart to get started. That's 844-844-iHeart. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to The Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ako Wodum. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what y'all say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor IV. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Now, let me just give a little bit of the bad news and then we'll go back to the good news. There is a challenge, which is that it's just the math of it. As the technology develops on an exponential curve, but most people are adopting and adapting on a linear curve, there is a gap. And that gap could be called social unrest. Yeah. Three years where things are going to go worse before they get better. Exactly. Down before they come back up. And in that period, that gap, which I call it the social unrest gap, you run some serious social risks. Now, the people who are listening to this are going to be riding the curve up. So they're going to be exempted. But you're going to have some cousins that are not going to ride that curve and who are going to keep trying to do it the same thing the same old way. And so there will be people who are left out, left behind. You know, what I told Peter was, you think about that as a technical problem, you know, mass unemployment is the way you talk about it. And what do you do about that? I said, you're missing the human part of it. It's not mass unemployment. That becomes mass humiliation. if you take 20 30 40 million people who have had a job who went to college or who've done well and all of a sudden all these corporations say we don't need you we don't need you we don't need you we're going to replace all the humans with these bots what that does is i've worked in some of the toughest prisons in the world you take somebody who already doesn't have anything and humiliate them they become the most dangerous person in that prison the most dangerous person world is a person with no hope no hope and so you know these you know and peter was like you know i'm concerned about what the social unrest in this transitional period what you know some some people people listen this are going to jump on claude tonight they're going to call their cousin or their you know nephew they're going to get some coaching on it they're going to look on youtube videos and by the end of the week they're going to make their first develop their first skill their first agent and they're gonna be holy crap i don't i don't have to pay my bills because my bot does that for me i don't have to and they're going to be on a jetpack but they're going to have a cousin or a neighbor this time what about them what i suggested to peter is that we need entrepreneurs who are who are launching what i call social tech technology companies that are designed to help distribute some of this abundance that you guys are creating. You're creating all this abundance for people who have bots and robots. But if you don't have bots and robots, you're just being... Abundance without participation. Abundance without inclusion feels like scarcity. And so you think you're scaling abundance, but people are going to think you're scaling scarcity. You think you're creating more, but people don't feel like they're getting less. And so in that gap, we need moonshots of brilliance of people stepping in and saying, I'm going to make sure that every grandmother in Detroit gets her bills paid by using this platform. I'm going to step in and make sure that every young person in Atlanta is able to access education. We're going to need a wave of new entrepreneurs launching new moonshots in the social tech space, which would be a new set of companies. And those can make money. So your traditional businesses can make more money by using these agents. You're employing people and deploying agents. That's your traditional businesses. But I also want to point out, because of this dislocation problem, there also can be new companies. This is where I hope AI becomes so important. Nobody is in a position to organize the tech sector and our communities to come together to solve that problem, except for John Hope Ryan. The only person who has, as you said, well, well, I'm happy. You Batman, I'm Robin. But because he already has Sam Altman on speed dial, because he's already moved through these different worlds, they trust him. He's in a position to have us come together between the AI ethics council that you're running, John, and Hope AI, which you now launched. There's finally a space. We also have AI LP3, which is being run by Georgia State University and Dean Phillips there. He was just in my office yesterday. That is taking the K through high school and soon K through college ecosystem and pipelining young people to do what they used to call code, which you used to do with just coding. but getting people, getting kids to not be afraid of the future, but to create them. Don't be afraid of companies in the future, but to create them. So this pipeline of prosperity through AI LP3 connects to Hope AI and is literally part of the hope for the future. And has all the school districts, Atlanta Public Schools and HBCUs and Georgia State University all connected together. So I want to add that. Yes. So again, how you relate to this at a human level, everybody will relate different. Some people like change. They'll be excited. Some people are not comfortable with change. They're going to be more nervous. but what I want us to always remember is, you know, whoever you are, you come from a people that overcame a lot. If I don't care what color you are, I don't care what your faith is, you go back, you don't have to go back too many generations to find people that have to overcome a lot. And they figured it out. And we now live in a world that is a result of them figuring it was World War II, the Great Depression, slavery, segregation, women can't vote. People always face these challenges and then we come up with a good outcome. I firmly believe that these tools are so extraordinary. If you can take these tools that are basically, they run on data and you combine them with wisdom data plus wisdom equals a great civilization right that's that's a great situation is available to us um ai artificial intelligence is important but so is ancient intelligence ai so it's ancestral intelligence ai uh so is aboriginal intelligence ai african intelligence ai asian tells the ai there's lots of ais that that need to be at the table with this new ai so we can start to create futures that we want but the first step for anybody listening this is get the tool in your hand i'm not i'm not paid by claude this is one that everybody has found is the most useful if somebody's a better one tomorrow i'll tell you about that one but just also just you know claudia give yourself an hour a day that you're going to going to be scrolling on Instagram or scrolling on X or whatever, take that hour. You would be on the phone anyway, on a computer anyway. And instead of scrolling on social media, play with Claude or any other platform that'll let you start building agents. Because you have stuff in your life right now, like I said, where it's paying bills, whatever it is, that you don't like building. So let a bot do it. And the minute you get one that does something for you in one second that would have taken you an hour, you suddenly realize you can get a lot of life back. You can get a lot of life back. You can make money, lose money, make it back. When you lose time, you never get it back. And so what these things are doing is giving you- So pause for a minute. Audience, Van just gave you another mic drop. So think of an AI agent as an efficiency time saver, a time recapturer. Anything can be processed in this routine that can be done. Yeah. Think about it as a personal bot. Think about a virtual robot that is functioning and doing things for you when you're not doing it. that's the best way I can describe it. And think about how many things in your life fit that category. Another thing he just said, which is not obvious, but I want to underscore it. Wealthy people value their time. Poor people value their money. And all money is, all cash is, is an exchange of value. That's it. A check, I can write a check on your T-shirt with a routing number and an account number and sign it. And you can take that T-shirt to the bank and the bank is going to be scratching their head thinking whether they have a legal responsibility to cash your T-shirt because all a physical check is, is the structural transfer, the structurally acceptable transfer of value of your money from one place to another. And I'm saying in this example, you can do this on my T-shirt. They got to sit there and question whether they are legally obligated to do that, whether all the parameters are there. I can give you this bottle and say, give me that pencil. And we've exchanged value because that's all currency is exchange of value. So we obsess on money, cash, bag, dollar, all this present moment, making a living stuff, but you're not building a life. And once you finish making a living and you're beyond a phase of you got too much money at the end of your money, I know that's a big phase. Right. When you're out of the desperation and phrase of I'm in crisis mode and you're going from survival to thriving mindset to winning and building mindset. Now you want time. And what a wealthy person, whether wealthy, whether you're wealthy in your pockets or you're wealthy in your mind, you understand the value of time. And what and what technology does with AI does better than anything else is it gives you your time back. It gives you more time. yes but understand this wealthy people value time more than money poor people value money more than time back to you well listen i mean i i almost want it when i ended there because it's just so much that to say but i do want to say something about time and this is a little bit deep but if you stay with us this long maybe you like deep conversations with with uh me and john but not only is what John's saying exactly 100% correct, I've noticed this around wealthy people, they'll spend an infinite amount of money to not waste their time. People say, well, why do they have household staff cooking for them and cleaning for them? They just want to oppress poor people. No, they want to spend their time on reading, on high-value relationships so they can continue the flywheel of their success someone who could make a billion dollars, but is instead of washing their own dishes and doing their own laundry, in their mind, I just lost $10 million. I mean, the time I've wasted on doing that. So it's a different way of looking at time. By the way, that whole thing, this could be a separate podcast by itself. This could be a separate hour. What you just said, why do I have a driver? I mean, I drive myself most of the time, but why do I have a Sprinter I'm trying to save time. I'm in the back working. I'm not sitting there drinking caviar. I know you're working because you always call me from the back of that damn thing. Why do you have a cook? Because it's not a good investment of my time. I need to be working. I mean, so now I want the audience to stop flossing. Stop focusing on blinging and singing and dinging. Stop all that stuff. That all these tools, private jets, All that stuff is not meant to be in an Instagram photo. Most people I don't know of a private jet don't want anybody to see it. They're just trying to get from point A to point B efficiently, quickly, not through airports, not standing in lines, not going through TSA. Not, you know, they want it because they're tied. Yeah, that's the greatest thing. The first time I flew on somebody's private jet, like, you know, they said, well, you know, meet me there at three. I said, well, what time does the plane lead me? They said three. and I was like what he said don't meet me there at 3 we're leaving at 3 so in my mind I'm so dumb I'm like well I must be misunderstanding if we're leaving at 3 I need to get there at 2 so I show up at a private airport an hour before the flight and they look at me like I a crazy person like why are you here like literally rich people drive up they get out the car they walk on the flight it takes off And so that whole hour and a half that I spend every time I go someplace, they don't have to spend. And so they can put that toward this business deal, that business deal, this book, this relationship that keeps their thing going. So it's just a different mentality, which I've just observed. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to The Girlfriends, Trust Me, Babe, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I got you. I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's OK to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what y'all say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor IV. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. But I also just want to say something about people's experience of time. in the age of the singularity, when now the curve has gone vertical. You will notice that there is a different form of time that you haven't experienced before because it wasn't available before. So let me just, I'm going to give you a couple of examples. In the old days, in indigenous culture, time was a struggle. You know, the sun goes up, the sun goes down, the moon goes through its phases. You know, the plant you harvest. Everything in indigenous and agrarian life times a circle. In other words, tomorrow and yesterday are the same thing. We're just going to keep going through the same process with the sun and the moon and the seasons, et cetera. In that world, the most important key to survival is preservation of culture, preservation of seed. That's why when every year with indigenous people is very slow, it's very calm. Whenever you're on a farm, it's very slow. It's very calm because you're just preserving all these rituals and all this wisdom. Industrial society comes along and suddenly for the first time ever, time isn't a circle, it's a line. And your experience in industrial society is not that you're in a circle, but you're on a train track. The past is behind you. The present is with you and the future is over there. And so now the future is different than the past for the first time ever. And you're going someplace. The key survival skill in that is something called planning. Because you need to pick where is this train going? I've got to plan my life. You ask somebody in sixth grade, what are you going to be when you grow up? Are you going to college? Why? Because in industrial society, you better have a good plan. Because if you don't have a good plan, you're going to wind up over here when you want to be over there. And so we built all these institutions around planning, schools, universities, consultancies, etc., because you need to have a plan. You may notice it's hard to plan now, isn't it? How are your plans in the year 2000? How do they work out? It turns out that planning, you may notice, is a lot more difficult. Why? because in the digital age, the future is not, you aren't experiencing the future anymore as you're going to the future. You experience the future as the future is coming to you. There's an onrushing future. You're sitting on the track and the train is coming to you. Multiple possible futures are coming to you. That's not, that's a new experience of time for human being. That's why you feel a little bit concerned. And it turns out the skill set to survive and thrive in the digital era is not preservation. It's not planning. The key skill is being prepared to pivot. Can you pivot? Can you say, okay, this is coming, but I don't want that. I'm going to move to this. Being prepared to pivot is the new survival skill. And who is better prepared to pivot and to move from this to this to this to that than people who've been living in disruption the whole time? So this is a very long way of saying exactly what John said at the very beginning. Yes, planning is still important. Preservation is still important. I'm not saying it's not important. I'm just saying that now there's a new skill set. How do you prepare to pivot? That means you need to change what you're reading, watching, listening to. So spending an hour on social media, spending an hour with your Claude bot. But now you're preparing yourself so that when the man comes and says you're going to be fired, you say, no, you can't fire me because it's me plus these seven bots that I created for myself that are actually more valuable than your whole company. So like, because you were preparing for the pivot, you were preparing to be able to deal with this thing. So listen, you know, these are things I've never even said perfectly, my understanding of the human experience of time in the digital era, all these things are things that John and I are going to be institutionalizing through Hope AI. We want to give you an unfair advantage in this world. We want to give you an unfair advantage from a mindset point of view, from a skill set point of view, and from a tool set point of view so that you and your family can do well. And then because it's us, because it's you, because it's John, we're not going to leave nobody behind. We also are going to figure out the social tech question to make sure that their platform's helping the people who are getting left behind. But you yourself, I want you to be a winner helping the people who might be losing. I don't want you to be a loser complaining and begging the government to help you because the government cannot help you with the speed. And maybe signaling they're not interested in helping you anymore. Even if they wanted to, and I'm not sure they do. But anyway, so let's... Look, I know we're well past time, but I just want to say I spend a lot of time in very strange places, places that they don't let a lot of us go. John does the same thing. They would actually probably be nervous if they had 30, 40, 50 people that look like me and John. They would just change the whole vibe. And that's okay. We do stuff that they would change the vibe for. so we just decided but but there there are things that are coming that are new on this earth and there are things that are coming that what's ancient in you will help you to actually uh prevail your wisdom your commitment to your family your love of learning you wouldn't be we certainly wouldn't be this part of the podcast if you didn't have a level of learning you have things that are going to, you know, when paired with these tools, make your life, your life better and hopefully make the world better. And hope AI is coming. And if you like any of this stuff, this is just a trailer for the whole trilogy that we got cooked up. I have learned from you this 45 minutes to an hour band. I've learned from you. I learned every time we speak. I want, and I'll have a note for the audience. And I hope parts of this go viral because I want parts of this in particular to be emphasized. Parts of this need to go viral so they listen to the large part that won't. Here's the part, because Dr. King was really brilliant at taking the important and making it feel urgent. Oftentimes the urgent crowds out the important and the emotional crowds out the rational. And I always say when something's personal, whenever, whenever you're emotional about making an emotional decision, it's going to be a wrong one. I'd rather you respect me and learn to like me and like me and never respect me. I'll be offended later. I'm nosy right now because I may miss something being offended. A guy gave me two ears and one mouth. So I listened twice as much as I talked. A Caucasian friend, I'm saying this on purpose, I'm out at the track condo where I race cars in my office out here. And a very, very, very prominent Caucasian friend here. I had a suggestion for him and he wasn't really listening. He was just so busy talking. And I said, will you please shut the muck up, please? Just knock it, shut up. So I can tell you what I have to tell you. I'm just telling you this because I love you. But you got to shut up for a minute and he got offended by what i said i said look don't you don't have time to be offended you never seen a brother talk like this before you don't have time to be offended i don't need you i don't need a thing you've got i don't want a thing you've got i'm just trying to help you be better and i'm telling you everybody else over here are behind you i'm looking over here in front of you and where you can go. But you got to get out of your own way. You got to get out of your own way in order to what you don't know that you don't know that she's killing you, what you think you know. You don't have time to be offended. Be offended later. I'm telling you this because I love you. It's like a parent would. You didn't like what your parents would tell you. I didn't like what my mother was telling me. For 20 years, I was upset with her. And then realized later on, dang, she was completely right. So glad she told me to hang out with those people and all that kind of stuff. I'm saying, stop being offended. Stop not understanding what Van Jones is saying. Stop looking at the small thing and missing the big thing. Step over the quest and not in it. Stop rearranging the deck chairs in the Titanic. The ship is sinking. We're picking drapes. We're using old software. We're in our old system where we have old habits. We have old wounds. We have old trauma, and it's triggering us. And this guy is trying to give you a North Star that will change every star in your universe. And you can't be black for a living anymore. If you're black with me at this, you can't be black for a living anymore. It's over. You may not think it's over. It's over. Slavery was about money. I mean, this is a 400-year-old, like, delayed message, right? that wasn't about black that was about money no one brought you all the way over here because they didn't like you you were valuable to them but unfortunately you couldn't create an asset because you were one so now here you are in a flat world everybody's starting Van Jones once told me I'm going to leave it here Van Jones once told me 99% of black folks here's one or another thing people get offended by it 99% of black folks don't know a thing about AI Somebody would just stop there and be a fan. What are you saying about black? Slow down. The end of the sentence. And John, 99% of white folks don't know a thing about AI either. Boom. My whole brain. I said, fam, you mean we're on a level playing field? Yes. Even Stephen, for 99.9% of people, this conversation we had is already past them. So you are sitting here literally the first time in your life. This is even Steven. It's jump ball. It's jump ball. If you if you put your hour a day into Claude, I guarantee you. Call me. I will give you cash money. I guarantee you if you put an hour a day into Claude for a month, your entire life will change. Your entire business will change. Your family will change. And it's free. You can spend more money. Do a half dozen of them, but yeah. Yeah, sure. I mean, yeah, I mean, but the reality is initially it's free. I mean, once you start becoming a super user, you're going to have to pay a little bit more money, but you're going to make so much more money and save so much more money. It doesn't matter. So, look, I got to go and you got to go. All I want to say is that Hope AI is very important. when John announced it, you know, if you look at me, I was almost just bouncing like a child behind him because I understand the importance of taking this level of understanding and making it broadly available to people who might otherwise be overlooked. And I know the good that will come from it. And look, your friendship is priceless to me. We weren't doing anything together. You'd still be my favorite person, but we're going to do something really, really great. And this is This is just a trailer for the trilogy. You're going to see with Hope AI. The best is yet to come. This has been Van Jones. And to a lesser degree, John O'Brien. That's Batman. I'm Robin. This is Hope AI. We're going to change the world as you see it in our lifetime. And you're going to change the world of everybody around you. We are going to be the change we want to see in the world. This is the third reconstruction. Money and Wealth with John O'Brien is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that. Trust your girlfriends. Listen to The Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what y'all say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor IV. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. of, you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.