9 Unbreakable Rules of Consistency and Commitment | Ed Mylett

This episode is brought to you by SimplySafe. As the evenings get darker and colder, this... SimplySafe on. ...is the sound of peace of mind. SimplySafe's sensors, HD cameras and 24-7 security monitoring, protect your home inside and out against break-ins, fires, water leaks and more. So you can relax. Visit SimplySafe.co.uk slash pod for an exclusive discount. This is The Edmire Show. Hey everyone, welcome to my Weekend Special. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure to follow the Edmire Let's Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Here's our first guest. Welcome back to the show everybody. Today's special. It's not every day you sit across from a three-time Super Bowl Champion. Super Bowl MVP. Let's just be real. One of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. One of the greatest athletes of all time. By the way, ironically, I think actually one of the most underrated athletes of all time. It's a fact. But actually, and in press of his football career was, I like the fact that the dream didn't stop there and he was able to post football create an incredible brand, an incredible career, an incredible life post football. So I just want to pick the brain of the great Troy Ackman. Troy, good to have you. Yeah, great to be on. Great to meet you. Been looking forward to this. You too. Baza Ways also in Entrepreneur. We ought to just talk about that first. Yeah. He's in the beer business now. Yeah. Tell me about that a little bit. It's been an interesting year and a half or so. Actually, we started two years before we launched. We've now been in stores for a year and a half, strictly in Texas. But I worked for a distributorship in college. I like beer. I don't drink a lot. But when I look like you drink any. Yeah, no. But yeah, I met my partners and we started kicking it around and seeing if it's something that I might want to do. And you know, I work out. I'm mindful of what I put in my body, all those things. And I said, well, if we can do something that complements my lifestyle, then I'm all for it. And so we spent two years coming up with the recipe and what's unique about eight, which is the name of the beer, is that we're 100% organic grains. We have no adjuncts and no fillers. So we're the only widely available beer that can say that. Every other widely available beer adds corn, rice, syrup or sugar. So there's a lot of junk that's thrown in there. ours has none of that. And yet we're still at 90 calories and just 2.6 carbs. So my next question is two things. So it's been really good. And you know, I feel like we're a lifestyle brand quite honestly because the people who I've always been inspired by are the people who never settle and the people who do the work and all those things that. And I feel like I'm one of those people, you know, and that's why I'm usually drawn to that. And so that's really who this beer was made for. Now anyone who wants to drink it, that wants a better for you beer, will certainly accept. But you're in the right demo in this audience. Yeah. They can be beer and be healthy. Yeah. And it's actually unique. They can get it anywhere. In Texas, yeah, it's distributed across the entire state. Eventually we hope that we'll move outside of Texas and, you know, being other states. We can buy it online. So we can buy it online. Yeah. I don't know what the restrictions are on that. I've been asked about that a lot. But it's done really well. So we just we just kicked off our second year. And a lot of good stuff has happened. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. You like I said, you've had this incredible life. I want to ask you hard stuff today. Stuff that I don't think you get asked all the time. I had a chance a few weeks ago. I was with Brady for a few days at an event. And I've been blessed that I get to have been around some guys that played your position at a pretty high level. Woody John L. Ways been a friend of mine for a long time. What's a through line for the great leaders in anything? But especially we'll just take quarterbacks now. What's the through line then? Don't be humble today between like a Troy Ackman. Because you're different personalities. Very different. Troy Ackman, a John L. Way, a Tom Brady. What is the through line that made you all great leaders? I know there's differences, but what's a through line? Yeah, I think we are all different. We all lead in a different way, which is, which is true of any field, of course. But I think that probably what the through line is for all great quarterbacks, great leaders at that position, or in general is that they put in the work. And they're not outworked. And I think that that, first of all, you got to play well. But you have to also be the guy who your teammates understand is there putting in the work and doing what's necessary in order to be the best that you can be. And I think that those guys that you mentioned, I'd like to think that I'm one of them as well, that your teammates never questioned your commitment and your dedication and your persistence to be in the best that you could be. Why is it matter? Like I, like in business as an entrepreneur, until entrepreneurs, one of the reasons you got to outwork everybody is when you're leading a team, an ironic thing, and maybe this isn't true in football, but I think it is, you actually create safety for everybody around you, stability when you're the hardest working person in the room and the leader. I think that's one of those like invisible things. Like you actually have created a sense of stability just by your mere presence in your work ethic that doesn't exist if you're a little bit hit and miss in an environment. Do you see that? Yeah, and I think that in football, maybe this is true in all sports, but I know that what I can relate to is the dynamics of a locker room and within an organization. And what generally happens is for the quarterback, the quarterback, the franchise quarterback, is always viewed as the guy who didn't really have to fight necessarily for his pay, he's been treated well, you know, that okay, well the organization, and maybe even more so now, even though we've seen situations where some quarterbacks have had to hold out and hopefully get what they feel is their correct, corrected pay. But I think in general, when you have a franchise quarterback, it's like, oh, okay, well his contract's up, so we pay him, and then we move on, and these other guys are holding out, and then they got to, you know, they got to fight a little harder. The quarterback usually has great relationships with not only the coaches, but also the owner himself and all that. So I think that with that, the quarterback has to, in his way, make the other players, his teammates understand that he's with them, you know, that he's one of them, and that he's doing the work just like they are. And it's not always easy to do, and there have been those quarterbacks, those guys, those franchise quarterbacks that have struggled in that area, and it's not easy, and not to get off tangent, but I think that becomes a challenge right now with what we're seeing in college with the NILs. Now you've got 18-year-olds instead of 24-year-olds that are having to navigate those waters of getting paid more than the rest of the players within the locker room, and how do you do that? It's not easy. That's interesting, because I've had a chance, I had Peyton Manning, of interview Peyton, interview John Montana, and then you, and when people make their list, this is what's interesting to me, I don't know if you take this personally or not, but when people go, okay, my top five quarterbacks of all time, you're usually going to hear Joe's name, you're going to hear Brady's name, and then they'll interchange, you know, Marino, Peyton Manning, you know, whoever, they get their list. Rodgers, I guess, is on that list somehow now, but my home's already. I want to know where Otto Graham is. Right, but we're like 10 champs, so it's back in the evening. Yeah, but what is it? In your case, I mean, it's clear you should be in there, and by the way, I'm sure on many lists you are. I don't mean to say anything. Well, no, that's not, well, no, I'm not. And why? And quite honestly, it doesn't affect me at all. I mean, it really doesn't. I mean, I played the game hoping that one day I would be thought of amongst the greats of all time, and I feel like that happened by the simple fact that I'm in the Hall of Fame. But, you know, when you're talking about, okay, name the top five, I wouldn't probably be in there. Maybe I would be if they mentioned the top 10. But I understand that my career really was about winning championships, which ultimately is what everyone's career should be about. That's what they pay us for. But I think that the world that we're in, with especially with fantasy football, and then for those fans or people who are making those lists, if they didn't see me play, they look at stats, and they say, okay, well, shoot, I'm in Troy, my numbers are pretty modest, relative to many others. And there's reasons for that. You know, Emmett, of course, there's a reason why he's the all-time leading rusher. But when we didn't throw the ball as often, but when we threw it, we threw it as well as anybody. And that's why Michael Irvings in the Hall of Fame as well. So no. It doesn't bother you. It does not bother me. In fact, during my Hall of Fame speech, what I mentioned was that I feel like everyone talks about how team comes first. You never hear a player say that, oh, no, I'm all about me. They'll say, hey, I just want to win. But there's very few, as you know, who really only want to win. They want to win as long as they're also putting up their big numbers. You know, for me, I felt like I did sacrifice individually. I felt like I could throw the ball as well as anybody. But I feel like I did sacrifice individually for what was best for the team. And so the greatest reward for that was that I then received the greatest honor an individual can ever receive. And that is to be voted into the pro football Hall of Fame. So that's what meant so much to me. And the rest of it, I'm proud of my career, you know, overly proud of it. If someone had told me, I always wanted to be a professional athlete. If somebody had told me that I was going to go on and win three world championships and have the teammates and the career that I was able to have, I would have taken it all day long. And so I'm proud of it. And where are that ranks or where everyone else thinks I just, you know, I've never really, it's not something you've well done. Well done, it's just not. Because you know a lot of guys, other guys do. I mean, look at Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame speech. He's considered the goat and he's still like nailing dudes, you know, like, right. And by the way, nothing wrong with that. I just, there's an ego that comes with being graded anything that I think is a healthy ego. But you did. You're also known as like one of the most accurate throwers of the football of all time, right? One of the most cerebral guys, like stuff that quarterbacks do. I asked him almost on one time, you know, the quarterback guru. And he's like probably the most accurate guy I've seen through the football was actually Troy Ackman, but it was all the other things. It's actually getting into protections that you're supposed to get into. I remember when Peyton really couldn't throw anymore. Yeah. Yet they ended up doing a lot better with him than they did with Brock because of his ability just pre-snap to get them into different, the right formations and block. And you know, obviously, you know, a lot more about that than I do. But I want to ask you also about your career. I'm just fascinated by the people that are the best. Like, people don't realize this because they watch it on TV. But every guy that's out there in the NFL was not only the best player more than likely on their, you know, their high school team, but they became elite in college. You were a UCLA guy. Do you come from Nebraska before that Oklahoma? Oklahoma. You didn't get it at Oklahoma. You end up red-shirting at UCLA. Yeah. And ends up winning three Super Bowls and an MVP. But I look at guys like that are just different. And I think what's the commonality because even me as an entrepreneur, I'm different than a lawn musk. I'm not anywhere near as wealthy as a lawn musk. But, you know, Phil Knight, a lawn musk and, you know, Mark Cuban. Three very different dudes. What's the through line, right? I mean, I look at Jimmy Johnson. I look at Bill Bella check. Bill Walsh. And let's just say, uh, Andy Reed right now. They're very different for human beings. Yeah. You know all of them or knew all of them or met them. Yeah. What is common amongst them that made them great leaders? That's a tough one. Well, that's a great question. I mean, it really is because I actually was just having this conversation with somebody that for the most part, for the most part, I would say, if you tell me someone's a player's coach, I will tell you that they probably haven't won at the highest level in general. Okay. In general. All right. But I think Andy Reed would be regarded as a player's coach. And he's been one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game. So, uh, but I do think that players in general, they, they, they want to be, they want to be coached by people that they know are going to make them better. Right. You know, and that's, that's the bottom line. I mean, that's the key. And so do they know something that I don't, and they can put me in a position to where I can achieve the things that I want to achieve, both individually and then as well for us as a team? This is true in business. True in life, true in everything. Right. I mean, it really is. And so there's obviously a lot of parallels between sports and, and business and other things. You know, you take Bill Bellacek, for instance, I've talked to a number of people. You know, clearly, regard as, you know, what may be the greatest coach of all time. He's on certainly a short list, but, you know, he's not a whole lot different in a lot of ways from the guy that we see. But when you talk to people who have played for the Patriots, I said, how, how is he so effective? And they say, we know that if we do what he asks us to do, there's a really good probability that we're going to win the game. Right. And so, did you feel the way about Jimmy? Yeah. Yeah. And Jimmy was tough. I mean, Jimmy was really tough. He demanded a lot, attention to detail. No details too small. And, and, and we worked hard. You know, so we had really talented players. That was his, Jimmy's greatest strength, probably was, was his evaluator, his evaluating. His evaluating of talent. I mean, he was sensational at that. So we had really talented players that worked exceptionally hard. And then Jimmy didn't let anything slide. So that's a pretty good formula. I watched something, when it was last year or the year before, I happened to be watching. We have some mutual friends that are involved at Fox Sports for football. And I watched the day that they told Jimmy Johnson that he had made the Hall of Fame. And then they threw to you. Yeah. And I watched your reaction. And I thought, I don't know that these guys necessarily get along that well. When a dude's beating the drum when you're playing and, you know, threatening you with, you don't, I'm going to play wall shirt, whatever. Yeah. Going on in the career, right? Yeah. But you sincerely seemed emotional about it on his behalf. Yeah. And I wonder if that's just because when you're forged in a battle, whether you're building a company or a family or a football team, that when you get to the other side of that, it might be messy in the middle, but at the end, there's this tremendous admiration that you've done something great together. Is that what that was or what was it? Because you're pretty emotional. Yeah. And I didn't know that he was going to be told that he was going into the Hall of Fame. We were going to halftime. And my producer said to me, hey, the studio wants you to watch the, a little bit of this halftime show. They're going to be doing something. Wow. And I thought, okay, they're going to be doing something. And then sometime in the second half, I'm going to be asked to maybe talk on it. And so I'm just watching what's going on. And then when I see David Baker walk out, who was running the pro football hall of fame, then I knew that Jimmy was going in. And I knew that there was a chance, but I had no idea that he was going to be told that night. I thought he was going to be months before he was going to ever find out. Okay. And so why I was emotional that was, was, you're right. I've known Jimmy since I was about 14 years old. He was recruiting me at a high school when he was at Oklahoma State. And I didn't go to Oklahoma State, of course. And then he went to Miami, recruited me there. And I didn't go there. And then I go to Dallas. And he's, he takes over for Tom Landry. So now he's coaching me. And then he drafted Steve Walls. And, and, and you're right. It got off to a really tough start. But he and I have gotten really close. And so he's never gone into the ring of honor. At Cal Boy Stadium where they have all the names. And, you know, we all feel those of us that played for him feel that if any of us are in the ring of honor, he certainly should be in the ring of honor. But that's a decision for Jerry Jones to make. And so I never was certain he would get into the pro football hall fame because he hadn't coached long enough. Yeah. Was the reason not that he didn't deserve to be in. I just didn't think that, well, he, he wanted to go on and do, do his boat and be in South Florida and all that. And so I just didn't know that because he'd been a finalist for a number of years. And so knowing how much that meant to him and had not yet been recognized for what he had done for those teams with the Cal boys, for, to see him go into the pro football hall fame that night was, was really special. I mean, that's why I was so emotional just I was so happy for him. And then to take it a step further is he asked me to be his presenter. So I presented him then, which was the greatest honor. I mean, the greatest athletic honor I've ever received is as I mentioned, going into the pro football hall fame. The greatest honor I've ever received in general was Jimmy Johnson asking me to be his presenter because when you go into the hall fame, you can ask anybody you want to be your presenter. And so when he asked me, I just thought, man, that's, that is huge. That's a, that's a pretty special thing. And so wonderful, man, congratulations. So you know how when you're doing something that's good for you and then you stop doing it, all of a sudden you feel what the heck changed. So here's what happened to me. I've been feeling great for like a year and a half. It's because I've been on IMAIT. Then we moved to our place in Maine and I didn't bring my supplement with me. So if you've been looking for something easy to stick with that actually makes you feel better, this might be it for me. It absolutely is something I rely on. And I noticed when I missed a few days. So give your body what it deserves with IMAIT. Go to IMAITHealth.com slash ed and use code ed for a free welcome kit. 5 free travel sachets plus 10% off your order. So seriously, this is one of those offers you're going to wish you jumped on sooner. That's IMAIT.com slash ed and use code ed for a free welcome kit. 5 free travel sachets plus 10% off your order and IMAITHealth.com slash ed. Code ed. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. So you know we talk a lot on the show often about health and energy, vitality, strength, wellness. You know when it comes down to more than anything I found out after about a thousand interviews. Food like what you're putting in your body. You cannot out train a bad diet. What it really comes down to is what you're eating and you know what we all want to eat home cooked food. That's why I love hello fresh and it's delicious food. Like I never had any more healthy food in my life that tastes this good. They got 35 high quality protein, different meals. You got GLP one friendly ones. You got Mediterranean. They got all wholesome ingredients. None of the bad stuff that you put in food. But the other thing that I like about them is you know what? You can get seafood on there now for no upcharge. There's three times the amount of seafood on there. My favorite by the way is the ribeye. So go to hello fresh dot com slash my let 10 FM to get 10 free meals plus a free's willing knife, which is $144 value on your third box offer valuable supplies last free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. Yeah speaking of emotions dealing with failure. It's part of being an athlete. Yeah, I think back to I just watching a lot of football at your rookie year was not gorgeous. So most people that listen to my show may not have me football fans, but I'm interested to hear. Why don't you describe it a little bit tell them what happened your rookie year, which was not you weren't one in a Super Bowl that year. And and and how you dealt with a lot of the rejection and failure criticism that came with it and probably even to this day you get criticism. People saying things about you that aren't really horrible. Yeah. I do deal with that. Now it's it's my rookie year was I guess it when I first got criticized or had to deal with that was at Oklahoma. You know I was trying to run an offense that just didn't fit my skills and and so is a real challenge and. Oh you of course is a hotbed for football and we were pretty good at the time and I was probably holding this back just because we're trying to run this wishbone offense and just wasn't for me. So that was the first time I really had to deal with it. I broke my leg and then I went to UCLA and end up going to Dallas is the number one overall pick. But I went to the worst team in football and then my rookie year. New head coach college coach bringing in a lot of different players every week. We really did not have much of a fighting chance. I was on 11 as a starter. And it was tough. We were a big beating. We weren't very good up front. Oh, it 11 everyone 11 and so there were games where we should have lost based on how I played. And then there were other games where I thought I played pretty well you know and we'd have a lead with 30 seconds left in the game and somehow we'd lose it. And I just remember thinking man what does it take to win a game in this league? I mean this is this is brutal right. But I never lost confidence and I and I think the reason was I had a quarterback coach by the name of Jerry Rome and he had played in the NFL and and he just he refused to let me get down on myself. And and there were days when it was hard. It was hard to be positive. It was hard to be upbeat. It was hard to believe that good things were going to happen. But but he was always there being my champion and he was in my corner and and so fortunately my very first game my second season we won. And so I got that monkey off my back and then over time we slowly got better and better and then of course we won the Super Bowl in my fourth year and and had great success. But yeah I just think that this criticism hurt you even now. It's like it you know it's easy I hear people say hey I don't pay any attention to criticism. I have a hard time believing that anyone just can totally brush it off. But if you get criticized enough you know and and I'm and I'm now that I'm still in the public eye with the broadcast you know all that that you just learn that that it's just part of it. You know someone once told me that hey it's part of the you know comes with the dinner and and criticism just comes with the dinner and and you know I'll read Twitter from time to time and and if you've called a game and you read Twitter. Be a buckle up. I mean it's okay but some of the it's some of it's pretty funny. And I laugh at most of it but what I like the reason I do it is because you know you know deep down if there's truth to those criticism. You know yeah and so I try to evaluate myself objectively and I don't dismiss that I mean I I I listen and then think yeah you know what they're right. Me too. I do the same I kind of dig some of it. Some of it's ridiculous. Some of it I'm like you know what I've heard this enough times there's some validity to this. I do need to make that adjustment and it's it's a bit of a wake up and and all that's good so I I don't I don't mind it. I mean I honestly don't mind it. What about the criticism if you know deep down like you you've done your best and whatever it is and then you just accept it and move on and and now as you know I mean the critics now everyone has a platform so you get you get all the everyone gets criticized now I mean you just you know we don't we definitely don't lack feedback in this day and age. There's plenty of feedback I want to ask you about winning. I always wanted to ask somebody who's won a lot this. I'll be honest with you so the things that have happened in my life where I've kind of won in business or whatever there were there were it was amazing. There were elements of it that were better than what I thought it was going to be but there are also elements of it that surprised me and I'm curious you win this as much as you can go back and really be there. You win this first Super Bowl maybe you're still on the field during the locker room it's the next day. Was it what you thought it would be like did you feel what you thought you would feel because there's these new studies that actually say that you get more dopamine in the pursuit of something that actually when you hit it there's like a dopamine crash in your brain and it's like said all there is there's a little bit of let down. Did you have that happened to you what did it really feel well I'll take you back a little bit earlier than that when when I was about 14 years old I couldn't wait to get my driver's license. I mean I thought that anyone who could drive how could they ever have a bad day. I mean I just thought that how could you ever be upset about anything I mean drive right well you turned 16 you get your driver's license and you you learn to drive and all that you've got a car and and then you realize that you still have bad days and and that always stuck with me so I've so I I've always known that achievement isn't going to it's not going to fulfill you anymore I mean you you're proud and you know you're not going to be able to do that. So you're proud and you're working towards that and you know you reach these goals but it doesn't it's not going to make any happier it's not you know that comes from a totally different place now I'll tell you I was I was in my 50s before I really figured that part of it out really and so but when I won my my first Super Bowl I I knew it was at least I knew that was in my back pocket and that's what I was drafted to do so that's where the satisfaction came like I am. That's where the satisfaction came like, for the rest of my career, they can't say I can't win the big one. Was it satisfaction or relief? Great question. I would say in all honesty, it was more relief. Yeah. Because I was never one of these athletes who, people would say, how come you don't smile more? How come you don't look like you're really enjoying playing? I didn't smile or enjoy until it was over, until we won. So we won the game. I mean, that's when you were really able to enjoy the effort. Yes. But during it, no, I mean, it was a grind. But yeah, I think in all honesty, it was more relief. That's been my emotion too. It's interesting you say that. It wasn't what I thought it would be, although there's other benefits that come with it that you don't dream of or imagine as well. But it's almost like, okay, look at it really. But the other thing that's unique about you, brother, is that you repeat. And I know it's a team sport. But we're going to get into broadcasting in a minute. Then you repeated, I mean, most of you know this. But if you don't, I mean, Troy has had this prolific career at Fox. Now he's the Monday night football at ABC. He's like, he's the number one sports broadcaster in football now. He's also become number one of that. So he's guys that has to leave college to go to UCLA because the offense didn't work for him. And so becoming the number one pick on the draft ends up being one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. And then after that duplicates it with a career that's been dominant. And by the way, he could be a professional bodybuilder if he won't be one of them too. So like the guy and the guy is this finds this way to the top position. But a lot of people don't deal very well with rejection or failure. But a lot, a lot. And you know this, whether it's been business people you've met in your life or people that are in a good relationship or an athlete, like I were talking about the UFC guys that I work with at the boxers. Guys work really hard to win a championship. And then something happens to them after they won a championship that hunger, the drive, whatever it is. They don't, most people deal very poorly with winning is truth. It seems like that has not happened to you. No, it hasn't. And I think in general, most people, well, my approach, whether it's in football or whether it was in broadcasting or it's in my personal life, is that most people aren't willing to do the work. Yep, I mean that's what I believe. And I don't know where it came from for me. I don't know if it was the way I was raised by my father. But that to me is what has driven me throughout my life and everything that I've done. Now, the Super Bowl, as far as that goes, I can't imagine winning a Super Bowl and then not being more hungry than you were. And the reason I say that is because it is such a great experience that how could you not want to go and do that again and again? But you played with the guys you did. You played with the guys. I've been with, and I've seen those teams and we all see, because it is. It's a bit of human nature. Jimmy was great in our repeat, Jimmy Johnson, and he treated us harder. I mean, he worked us harder the second year. And it was a reason for that. Jimmy was a psychology major and he felt that, hey, now's when people get complacent. I'm not going to allow it. And so he worked us even that much harder. But Ed, I'm asked a lot about why I work out so much, why I do all this. And the reason really is simple that I feel like my success as a player was because I just refused to be outworked. And so I was going to do whatever was required. And when I got into broadcast, I'm not the greatest speaker in the world. But I just said, I'm going to give myself at least a fight and chance and I'm going to put more time into this. And so I work hard at trying to be as prepared as I possibly can be to go into a broadcast. And then with the working out now and my personal life, it's been about discipline and commitment. And if I let myself go, I feel like then I become a bit of a fraud and what I believe is the foundation of who I am and why I've been able to have some degree of success. And so I think it's, you know, when you talk about a through line, when you've been asking me those questions, that's the through line for me. It's discipline, it's consistency, and it's commitment. Very short intermission here folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now onto our next guest. Welcome back to the program everybody. I'm so fired up today. I have some man I've admired from a distance for so many years. He is one of the great leaders in American sports. He just is and he does it with a style that is all his own. And it's one that I've admired from a distance. Some of our mutual friends have confirmed what a good man he is for me. And let me tell you, 140 and 33, well, he's been at Clemson as the head football coach there, but he started to get better and better and better. Last three years, only lost three games, undefeated in 2018, two national championships. The list goes on and on. And this is from a guy who was a walk on at Alabama, by the way, which is even more ironic that you went to Alabama. Now you coach at Clemson, but I am honored to have Dabbo Sweeney on the program that I coach. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Ed. It's good to be with you, man. This is what a great, great treat to be on this podcast or show and an opportunity to meet you. Yeah, my pleasure, coach. So we're going to go all over the place. We're going to talk leadership, recruiting, culture, all these different things, but this is like a master class on leadership and recruiting. But one thing I got to ask you, because I've always wondered this about you. Lots of coaches talk about faith in the locker room, right? Before a game, let's pray together. Or they're Christian men or women that lead teams. You were the first coach that I saw do it outside the locker room in like post-game interviews. Now, I'm sure it's been done before, but it's not been done before, to my understanding, on the level you compete at, the magnitude of your job. And I remember watching you get interviewed after a game going, this dude fires me up. Man, he always acknowledges God. He always says something about his faith. And that's bold. And I actually thought it first, I thought it was aggressive because, or amazing because I'm not if it cost him some recruits. And it must be okay with him that he does do that. Was that a conscious thing? We're like, I'm going to be bold about what I believe in the locker. I'm the same guy in the locker room that I am in an interview that I am with my family that I am coach and baseball. And I'm sure you might have caught a little flag for it. At one point in your life, or being so bold about it, I just want to know your thoughts about your faith, how it plays into being a coach, a leader, and your boldness about it. Oh, yeah, I've caught a lot of flag about that. I think, you know, when, that's why the Bible says, you better put your armor on every day. I mean, like every single day. You know, and listen, I don't judge people or think, I just, I just believe what I believe. And you know, Colossus 323 says, my favorite verses says, it says, whatever you do, do it with all your heart as if you're working for the Lord. All right, whatever you do. All right, now tell me, if you're cleaning the room, your bedroom, do it as if you're working for the Lord because that's the perspective God wants us to have. And that's, you know, we have a really crazy world. You know, we're in a falling world. San is real. The devil is real too. Nobody wants to acknowledge that. That's what I believe. All right. And maybe I'm wrong. I'm gonna meet my maker one day, but I know what I believe. And I believe in Jesus. And I believe in God. And I believe that in Colossians where it says, whatever you do, you do it with all your heart as if you're working for the Lord. And when you do something with all your heart, you're gonna go above and beyond, right? And everything that you do. And so God, I don't get how you can separate that. And so yeah, I've had all kind of flak. One year, wherever some group that, man, they tried to come and like, they said all this crazy stuff. Like I'm only playing Christian. I'm like, let me tell you something. If I'm only playing Christians, we ain't winning like we win and I promise you. You know, anybody chicken roll a chapel. I got chapel, but I don't sit around and go, oh, you didn't come to chapel. You don't play today. Now, give me a break. You know, I just think you have to be who you are. There, and that's what I said back then. There's nobody that comes to Clemson. If I was an atheist, yes, yes, what? Everybody who came to Clemson would know that. All right, I think you just be who you are. Beautiful. And there's nobody that comes to Clemson and goes, well, that guy, man, I know, Coach Swinney was a Christian. You know, and so I just think you just be who you are. I know what my job is. My job is to win football games, but I know who my maker is too. And I know that when you are a person of faith and you're a Christian, that's not something you turn on and off. You know, whatever you do, you do it as if you're working for the Lord. And so, yeah, my paycheck says Clemson University, but let me tell you, then the day I'm working for the Lord, because one of these days, there's going to be a scoreboard a whole lot bigger than the one that hangs out here in Death Valley. And it's going to be, you know, Davo, I gave you all these things and all these young people. What did you do for me? And listen, my job's not to save them, but I do feel like that I have a responsibility to be an example. And I try to live my, man, I'm the biggest sinner in the world. I try to live my life in a way that glorifies God. And in those moments from time to time, listen, I don't ever want anyone, we live in such a superficial world. I don't want anyone to ever think that, man, this is because of, anything that I am is because of God. Anything that I've done is because of God's favor on my life. God's grace, you know, man, God's grace in his favor, his will, his Holy Spirit, you know, leading the way. I mean, that's just how I look at it. And so because we live in this world now, where everybody wants to put you up on this pedestal. And I try to be quick and say, hey, listen, ain't that great about me? If there's anything great about me, it's the Holy Spirit inside of me. All right. And guess what? Everybody can have that. And you said something a minute ago. And listen, I greatness is for everyone. And I love when you guys send messages out on social media about the show. And lately, been getting a few of these messages about my wardrobe. I was wearing this sweater, this tan sweater. And I kept getting all these messages from guys going, where did you get that sweater, bro? So I'm gonna tell you where I got it. 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The moment you're working from a cafe and realize every outlet's taken, the times you're deep into your flow and the absolute last thing you need is an auto update throwing off your momentum. That's why Dell builds tech that adapts to the way you actually work. Built with long lasting battery, so you're not scrambling for the closest outlet and built in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it. They don't build tech for tech sake. They build it for you. Find technology built for the way you work at Dell.com slash XPS. Built for you. And I told our team back in 2013, we beat Ohio State in our first ever BCS, we ended up in Orange Bowl. And then we beat in Alabama a couple of times and we've beaten some of these big, big schools. If we walked out there at the middle of the field and we compared checkbooks and we compared budgets and we compared all, we'd get dominated. We would get smoke or if we, guess what? I mean, number one recruitment classes we've had in 12 years as a head coach. Z-Rogue. Z-Rogue, none. None. So it's not all about that. All right, it's about people, it's about passion, it's about synergy, iron sharpening iron, it's about attitude, it's about belief. That's what it's all about. And so, you know, I don't see it as being bold when I give God the glory. You know, I don't want any, I don't want to coach you God for anything that happens in my life. We're two guys that have that in common. I'm a sinner saved by the grace of God too. Thank God. And, but I'm told that I'm bold when I do it because I catch some criticism for it, just like you do. That's the thing when I'm meant by bold. And I like you so much. Now, I can't worry, I just don't worry about that. You know, I mean, listen, I mean, that outside noise is always going to be there. And again, if we spend our lives sitting around worried about, you know, what we need to worry about is pleasing God. And when you live your life, and that's your belief pleasing God, well, you're going to upset people. That's just part of it. And you know what, the, it goes back to what I said earlier, being inside out. You know, I don't know who said it, but there was a quote, I love it. It says, you know, ships don't sink because of the water around them. They sink because the water gets in them, right? And so we can't let all that stuff in us. And, you know, we got to let the light inside of us be brighter than the light on us at all times. You know, and so the light gets bright, man. That was the last thing I told our team in 16. I was like, hey, you know, this is what we got to do. The lights are going to be bright, man. But we've got to, we got to let the light inside of us be brighter. What an opportunity that we have. And listen, you know what, some of the best opportunities that we have is when we have failed miserably, right? That's, that's, that's when, especially when you're a Christian, you know, and so, you know, it's, it's, it's all good. That's what God teaches us. It's all good, all things, all things work together for the good, for those who love the Lord. And so it's a mindset, it's a mentality, yeah, it sucks. We hate it. We don't, you know, but guess what, all things, all right? And so we're all here for, for a blink of an eye. I mean, a blur. I mean, we've lived long enough you and I, we've seen young, young people die. I've spoken at a bunch of funerals. I've had, you know, former players die. I've had family die. We've got, it's, boom, it's a blink of an eye. So are we going to live for something that's just superficial? You know, that's not my choice. And here's the good thing about the God we serve. He gives us the choice. It's a, yeah, it's, it's a choice. And it's everybody's choice. But I hope that, that we can live our lives in a way where maybe other people may say, you know what, there's just something different. And, and say, well, let me tell you about that. There's this guy named Jesus. And man, if you just put your eyes on him in the good and bad and you believe and you don't quit, man, he's gonna, he's gonna bless your life. And some things this side of eternity will never know, will never understand, all right? But that's what fates all about, you know, is really just, just believing when you don't understand. And then one of these days, when we meet our maker, man, we're gonna, we're gonna celebrate and, you know, and see the bigger picture of life. So awesome. I was saying earlier, I just like you. I just like you. I respect you, but I like you. I'm so glad I like you. You know, when you have somebody from a distance you've admired, then you meet them that kind of exceed your expectations. That's a wonderful thing. You're doing that for me. And I know this for millions of people too. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Mylet show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to Max out, everybody. I'm Ed Mylet. Fired up about today because this is a man that I've admired from a distance. We have some mutual friends that connected us. And today is about really the longest 10 year WWE superstar and the history of the organization. Kind of a leader in the locker room, more television appearances than anybody ever. Had the streak at WrestleMania forever. But what I'm excited about is we get to talk out of character now, not just in character the whole time. So we can talk about life and growth and longevity and being productive with someone who's highly qualified to do it. So my guest today is the Undertaker, A.K.A. Mark Calloway. So Mark, thanks for being here, brother. No, thanks for having me, man. I'm excited. Talk about the very unique relationship you have with the overall leader of the organization in VITS, McMahon. It seems that that's become a special friendship forged through loyalty, probably more than anything. And I gotta think that friendship's been both good to his career and your career as well. So speak to those couple things. Yeah, absolutely. So as far as being the leader, it was never really something like I tried to pursue, it just kind of happened through the years. And I fell into this unique position where the boys, the guy, the wrestlers, they saw what the business meant to me and that the business always came first. No matter what, the business came first. As far as when we're out on the road, obviously your family comes first. But in a business sense, when I'm on the road, I don't care how late we stayed out, whatever we did, night life wise, it did not affect the next day's performance. If it did, then you knew you were going to get pulled aside. Say, look, if you can't handle this, then maybe you shouldn't be doing this. Because at the end of the day, it depends on what we do for our audience the next day. Guys appreciated that. But they knew like, okay, hey, you know, takes one of us. He goes out and he has a good time just like everybody else. But it bell time, all that goes out the window until after it's all over with. And so yeah, so there was this, and then I had the also, I had the trust of what we call the office. You know, there's the office and then there's the boys. Somehow another, I kind of landed in the middle. I was always accepted as one of the boys, but the office knew that they could, they could trust me. And there were a lot of times like whoever are our talent relations, VP was, there was a lot of times they would come to me and say, hey, this is, you know, we're having this issue. And I could go to the guys or a guy or a person pull them aside and say, look, man, you know, I understand. And they appreciate that because they know that I've been through everything possible to go through. So, you know, it wasn't like, oh, well, you know, undertaker's a stooge for the office and he's trying to, right, you know, they trusted me. So I had that trust on each side, but I could, many times I could talk to somebody and say, hey, look, this is, this is their perspective. Okay. I understand your perspective. Because I'm, you know, I'm talent, right? I'm talent. I'm with you. So a lot of times that happened and I could divert bigger issues with guys if they could kind of get over, you know, if they could get over the ego and then they knew and they trusted me enough, like, well, you know, takers are not going to screw me over. So it worked out. It worked out really nice. And then with Vince and the loyalty and everything else. I, so I was told by WCW. I was told I went, I've been there for about a year. My contract was coming up and I went in to renegotiate my contract and I wasn't looking for a huge bump, but I was looking for, you know, I've been, I had a pretty good year and I was just looking for a slight, just a slight bump. And I was told by, you know, Jim heard he was running the company at the time. Emily Anderson and Jim Barnett, they looked me squaring my eyes and they said, you're a great athlete, but no one's ever going to pay money to watch you wrestle. Seriously, okay. That's all I needed to hear. So Vince, so I get a meeting with Vince and, you know, he eventually gives me that opportunity. And that's all he ever promised me was an opportunity. He never told me, hey, you're going to be, you're going to be this guy here for 30 years and do all these things. He said, I'm going to give you an opportunity. And then, but that's all I always remember when I did become a commodity, when WCW wanted me back, you know, they wanted to pay me big bucks because they were paying everybody big bucks. Yeah. You know, it's like, no, I can't do that. You know, they're all from me a lot more money, but this is the man who made me and that's just the way it is. And then obviously we just, we've been through so much together, professionally, personally, that, you know, most times now, I don't even deal with Vince hardly when it comes to business. Our relationship, 90% of the time is more of that of friends than it is of business. And let's, there's a special ask that nobody else wants to ask me to do that. It's like, you're the only one that's going to be able to get him to do it. So, yeah. Before we start the interview with my next guest, just want to remind you all that you can subscribe to the show on YouTube or follow the show on Apple or Spotify. We have all the links in our show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now on with the show. Welcome back to Maxed Out. I'm Ed Mylett. And I am so fired up about today's program because I have one of the most successful human beings on the spinning earth right now that is under 35 years old. Just got on my right right here. You all know who he is. You can tell from looking at him. But let me give him the right introduction. Okay. This young man right here founded Elite Daily, sold that thing for about $50 million. He's one of the great thought leaders on social media today. He's a serial entrepreneur. Forbes magazine called you the millennial mentor, right? And above all of that stuff, having getting to know him today, I'm going to tell you, my favorite thing about him is a caliber of man that you are and how generous you are and your spirit and your heart and your character. So today is going to be amazing. And so this is Gerard Adams. Gerard, thanks for being here, brother. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. So inspired right now. Just like, you know, it's one thing when you look through the lens of social media and you look through on the videos. It's another when you're able to actually come and feel the energy and see it. And most importantly, right back at you brother, like there's a lot of successful people in the world. But for me, it's about character. And not only do you show up for your community, but the way that you are, you know, when I met you and how humble you are and how welcoming you were for me and our team, really appreciate that, man. It's my pleasure, man, to have you here. You know, I wanted you to do this for a long time. And so the stars align. So let's do something great here today. I hope my billing of you was accurate because Gerard has a lot, you know, the very few people you would meet with the success that Gerard's had so young who has kept such a humble spirit about them too. And it's such a generous giving person. So, but I think some of that, having got to know you a little bit, has to do with your upbringing. I always like to take people back just a little bit. So you grew up a little bit like I did in the middle, right? In the middle class, but tell everybody, you know, just a little bit about young Gerard, even though I still think you're young, but young, young Gerard, how'd you grow up? Tell us about your background. Well, you know, I, I really had an unbelievable upbringing because I had a really strong, you know, group of parents, like my mother, you know, she just really showed me a love and compassion and empathy and like the things that, you know, a lot of people, I feel like don't have. That's worth more than anything in the world. And my father was just a strong man, you know. He really instilled that leadership in a very young age. What he would used to do is used to write notes and leave them for me, hidden and throughout my house. Really? If I went to go get a glass of milk, there's a freaking little whipped up note in there. If I went to bed, there's something under when I pulled a blanket up. If I wanted to go to school, he's dropping something in a freaking notebook for me or something. And there were these, you know, just quotes them whether it was John F. Kennedy, Marcus Arrelius, you know, just different leaders. And for me, you don't really understand it when you're really young. You're kind of like, oh, this is kind of cool again. But I really started to appreciate it as I started to get older. So I grew up with unbelievable parents, hard working. They really instilled the work ethic for me, but I walked to school. I took the bus. I loved being Max. I was a skater. And, you know, for me, I was just a very creative person. Even young. Yeah, I had a charisma when I was young. I used to make my own clothes. I used to, I loved, I begged my parents for one thing only. They put me into art school. Really? Yeah, I wanted to go to art school. Were you the only child? No, I have two unbelievable sisters. Okay. Did he do the same thing for them? Was he writing them notes too? Was that something he did just with his mom? You know what's funny? I've actually never asked them. Yeah, it's interesting to know. Yeah. What are you the only one getting these notes? You know, he was just, you know, they were, he was very protective of my sisters. Okay, yeah. He was really good at that. Yeah, that. And he just, you know, they were way more educated than I am. And of course, he nurtured them. With me, he was a little tough love for school. You're tough, you're. And your mom, by the way, I just get to see that your mom's a major influence. It's just because I'm a hard jerk. And I watched earlier when you talked about your mom. There's certainly something very special there with you and your mom too, right? What you learn from mom? Well, you know, I'm both sides of my family. I'm extremely grateful of my heritage. Which is what, by the way? People, I mean, I know you get asked this all the time, right? All right. I'm so Colombian and Italian. But, you know, my mother's side, I just, I might as well stay like 30 days ago. I went and visited my grandfather. He turned 99 years old. And I, you know, I said it to myself. I wrote it down. It's like my grandfather's turning 99 this year. I don't care what I'm doing. I don't care. What interview I don't care what wants to pay me for anything. Well, business, you know, opportunity there is. I am going to see my grandfather to help celebrate his 99 and ask him these questions about immigrating to this country. And you know, I'm second generation. And I just feel like, you know, my mom's, you know, parents, my grandparents, they came here, you know, with that typical immigrant story with nothing. My grandfather came here first. Then he sent back for my grandmother and my mother. My mother was born in Colombia and she came here. So I think that work ethic and that, you know, and just the appreciation for being here and like and making and building a life is instilled in my mom. And then, so I'm really, I really think about that. And that's what really drives me. But it was the moment that I saw my mom working seven days a week in a supermarket. And that was my first job, you know, I wanted to work. I wanted, you know, my parents weren't like, they didn't give me things like I had to earn it. So my first job I believe it was not was like working at the supermarket where my mom worked to use an employee there. And I'd never forget getting that first paycheck. And it was like maybe $300. And I look at that paycheck and I remember just seeing my mom working there and I'm just like, wow, like there's no way like I got to get my mom out of this. Like this isn't real money. Like, you know, and at that moment, I started to really feel like, you know, I'm like, don't think about that. I'm so proud of them. I'm so proud of what they've done. You watch your mom work. You see this struggle that she's gone through. You go away to college, which I'm sure was like a major priority for your dad and your mom, especially for you to go, right? But you didn't last thing college. And so I want people that are listening to this because a lot of millennials are going to watch this because you're here. They're in my audience as well. What happened with you in college? Well, this is, this is really interesting. I really didn't want to go to college. I was a bad kid right before graduating high school. In fact, I lost touch with a lot of my, you know, my good friends that I had grown up with earlier. I started hustling weed when I was in high school. And I almost had a moment that really set me back. And I'll never forget the day my father caught me scaling in my bedroom. And typically, you know, I was old, my dad's a little bit more than the old school time. So like growing up, if I did something wrong, like you kind of like, I got the belt, like my dad like pushed me around. It wasn't like, you know what you mean? You know what I mean? My relate. And I had a moment where I got pulled over and I thought that moment, I was about to get arrested and it was going to completely ruin, you know, my, the respect that my father would have for me and just for my community. And that story I've talked about, but someone was committing grant of thought over in front of me. And when I was doing this drop off, they ended up figuring that out, letting that person go and saying, Hey, kid, are I get out of here? And when I had drove all the day, that was the day that was like, OK, I'm going to college. Whoa. OK, like I got it. I got to take this muscle mentality and I got to learn about business. Like I cannot be someone who ends up life altering moment. That was a life altering moment for me. But I ended up crying during graduation because my father wanted me to get into a good college, wanted me to go to Princeton. And I went to, I got into barely a community college. So I remember just completely freaking destroying. We cried because you thought you let your dad down? Actually, no. I was actually really more about the fact that like the people that I had been friends with, they were going to these great schools. And I was alone going to this community college and I was like, fuck, like I'm such a disappointment to myself. And but going to college that first semester, I, in some thing was like, this just isn't for me. You just knew. I just knew. I think it was part of me as in my hustle. I just always was this creative. I wanted to be outside the box. I didn't want to be, you know, I wanted to break the rules. I was like, that's that art thing in you, huh? The art thing in me, very creative. Yeah. Into this day. And, you know, being in school, I was like, this isn't for me. Yeah, I went to college and it's one of the things that I, you know, there's more and more people I interviewed that wasn't their thing. And I think the consciousness about that is changing too. Because when I was in college, one of the things that I observed too was like, it just sort of brings out these cookie cutter people, the business school, you know, you know, it sort of squashes from people their ambition, their creativity. I'm not knocking college at all. I have a degree. Me neither of them know. And I'm progies in the back. Kids. I would tell them it's a great debate in my family. I was like, they don't need to go to college. They go, absolutely, they're going to college. Well, we're going to be entrepreneurs anyway. It'll give them experience and it's an achievement. It shows work and finishing an idea. That was a great conversation. Be sure to follow the Edmila show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to Max out everybody. I'm so excited about today's show because this is somebody that I admired from a distance for shoot a couple decades now at a minimum. And to put it bluntly, he is the most successful man in the history of his craft. It's the most successful man in the history of sports radio. And he's done a whole lot more than that when it comes to television as well. Right now, the Jim Roan show is hosted on the CBS Sports Radio Network. It's simulcast over to the CBS Sports Network. He also makes appearances on CBS for the NFL. And he's had a storied career in an area and an arena that I'm very, very fond of. And it's great to have him with me here today. So Jim, thanks for being here. Ed, it's so good to see you. Boy, that is some kind of view, my man. That lives up to all the hype. That is a beautiful, beautiful scene. Well done. Very blessed for sure. And so have you been, by the way. I'm curious as we start, because most of my audience knows you for sure. And I've admired you for so long. And one of the things I admire about you is your humility for how successful you've become. But today, I want to give you permission to be, you can brag a little bit when it comes to the truth about your career. So I want to ask you, how did you get started? Because I know that you went to the University of Santa Barbara because we're both in the big West Conference. Right. But did you know way before you even got to Santa Barbara that this is what you wanted to do? You know, I would say this, my only advantage I think that I really had was I did know exactly what I wanted to do at an early age. You know, unlike you, I mean, I had professional athletic aspirations, but I did figure out early on. This was not going to happen to me. You have to understand I grew up in Los Angeles at a very different time when there was no internet and there was no cable, but I was obsessed with sports. Man, I loved it. I had my childhood heroes and I couldn't get enough. I mean, if my old man was not saying to me, get your ass out of the house. It's beautiful day. I would have watched sports all day long and read sports, but I did realize that a pretty early age that I could not hit a curve ball. I was not blessed with his great size and ability. So how do I stay in sports? And I just kind of got it in my head. Maybe I could be on the radio. So maybe if I got really lucky, I could be on TV. So I knew at an early age and what that did for me, it was I knew that the second I got to UC Santa Barbara, I checked into the dorm and I went right to the radio station and I never left and I just kind of locked in. So my one advantage was I knew when you're not supposed to know who knows when they enter college, what they want to do. Did you know what you want to be a pro baseball player? And it didn't work, right? Yeah, you would have been doing what you wanted to do. But I think it's like my son just started college. It's okay not to know when you start college, right? Yeah, absolutely. I knew and I was going to lock in and start paying the price. So yes, I knew. That's awesome. So you get started. I was a radio TV broadcast. I'm a major, I was a communication major. And one of the things that I tell all entrepreneurs is I think especially in this day and age with the internet technology, everybody wants stuff to happen right now. Right. Like, hey man, I'm going to give this a shot for six months. I'm going to make a run at this, you know, until it hurts a little bit. One of the things I admired about you because you chose a craft that it does not happen quickly in. So what about like staying power? You get going, you leave Santa Barbara. It's not like the next year, you're, you know, in San Diego, you know, becoming the Jim Roan that we know now. No, there's like, there's lots of layers to that. It's a really interesting question. You know, like Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan to like punch in the face. Everybody's like, I'm going to do this. Like when I was in Santa Barbara, we all thought we would go right to the top because you're in college and you're naive. You don't know how the world works just yet. So we all believe that until you actually get into it. And then all of a sudden, you see what's going on around you. So when I was a young person in the business, I would apply myself, but then I see my other friends who were not in the business and they're going to law school or they got into marketing or they got into sales or they went to Wall Street and they're killing it. And all of a sudden, no, I'm still grinding and market 174, which is Santa Barbara. And I'm not making much money and all my buddies are just thriving and they're killing it. It's at that point that people start to say, it's a dream. It's a pipe dream. It's not meant to be. It's not for me. I'm going to give in. And then people give in. So I would say this is a great story. I knew not to give in, but you know what? I did. I was one of the guys that gave in. So here's what happened. When I was in college, I had seven internships in three and a half years because I was obsessed. Man, I was like, I was terrified of falling behind and I was so committed, but then I had one bad experience. I got punched in the face once and did not react well to it. I worked for a radio station in Santa Barbara for free for nine months. A paid position opened up. The news director says to me, you're the guy. You've earned it. It's your time. I'm just going to cut a demo tape. We played for the owner and then you're in. The owner here is it. He hates it. He goes, I'm not hiring that guy. And I'm like, wow, but I had a fallback plan. My parents own a business. So I go to my own man because I have visions of there's the BMW, there's the house, there's the presidency. So I go to my tough old man from Boston. I'm like, hey, dad, listen, I want to go to work for you. He goes, no, no, I'm like, dad. Every old man wants their son to fall in their footsteps. So like I see, he's like, not this one. And I'm looking at him like, what? And he says to me, you've never once displayed any interest in the family company. You don't come to me now right now and say you want to. No, he said no. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, what do I do? I want to control my own fate, my own destiny. And then radio is not fair. Life's not fair. So I talked him into it. I warmed down. I, because I always had this kind of drive and passion. I wore him down. I worked on him for six months. Of course, it was the wrong thing for the wrong reason. He fired me. And then to make this a super long story short. I've never heard this before. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah. And keep in mind, I grew up at a dinner table every night when my parents owned a small business. They were manufacturers. And they manufactured high-tech garments and they had a factory in Chatsworth. And I heard every day at dinner, business is business. Business is business. You take care of the business. The business will take care of you. So about six months in, he fires me nicely, but business is business. He said, what are you going to do now? I said, I'm going to get a sales job. He looks at me like I'm crazy. He's like, you suck at sales. I just fired you. I'm like, no. I suck at selling your product. I will sell something else. I got a job working at Harris Linear, selling dictation equipment. Oh my God. And because when I went to a headhunter, they said, we're going to send you out. And here's the best one. Here's the one that everybody wants. I can always sell me. Yeah, you're right. But nothing else. So I got the job. I stayed there 38 days. I quit. They're furious. And then I'm selling phone equipment. And it's going terrible, man. I'm getting my face beat in. And finally, in a fit of just, I'm near tears. I call my old boss where I had an internship in Santa Barbara. And I said my life, he's like, hey, Rome, what's going on? I'm like, nothing good. Nothing good. He's like, what? I lay out my whole sales life. I'm a failure. I'm worth nothing. Do you have any radio work in Santa Barbara? He's like, I got one thing. 30 hours, vacation relief, traffic reports, $5 an hour. Do you want it? I said, yes. Yes. And I tell my old man, he's like, how are you going to live? I said, I have no idea. But my life is going right down the gutter. I got to get back up there. And so I committed to this. I had $5 an hour, 30 hours a week. For one month, no benefits. Because the kid was on vacation for Christmas. And I said, I'll figure it out when I get up there. I just know that I'm not good at sales. Brother, I know. I didn't know what that question started. Sorry about that. I knew your whole story, and I did not know that part of it. That's a huge thing. I'm so grateful you said this. Because a lot of entrepreneurial types listen to this. And probably in your life, you've pursued the business side. And maybe a lot of you listen to this right now, you've gone back to some goofy plan B that you know you don't belong at. You know what's not your calling. You know you're not great at it. It's like this place you're kind of hiding because this other thing is so painful. And it's really cool to know that I'm in your humble about it. But someone who becomes the best of all time at what they do. This man's in the radio, Hall of Fame, guys. I mean, legitimately, three decades plus on the air. I mean, the staying power's been unreal. To know that you went through this little stage where you were a little bit lost is nuts to me. Team, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm going. Yeah, no, no, but I was going to say the thing that I admire about you is that post that, it seems to me you made this decision like, okay, I went and played with the stuff I'm not any good at. And then there's becomes this part of you. I love what you talk about this. You're like, this is what I'm going to do now. I'm going to figure this shit out. And it's like a burn the boats type thing for you. You've almost got this theory about success that it doesn't always go to the, that's sort of the most talented person with the most gifted person, but it goes to the who. No, and I've seen you talk about this as well that it's not always the talent, but it's the grind. And it's the effort and it's the dedication. And I think that's where the separation is. And by the way, if you know that you're not the most talented guy and you know that you're not the most brilliant person, what are you going to do? Like, here's the one thing. The one thing that I had aside from, I knew what I wanted to do at a pretty early age. I knew the price that I was going to negotiate with myself to get that done. Like, that's the other sidebar. When I was in UC Santa Barbara, I thought nothing of getting up at 4.30 in the morning to go work in internship for free. When the other kids were saying, dude, I'm not going to make that eight-car class. And I'm not saying I'm a hero for doing that. In fact, I'm kind of a loser for doing it because I was terrified of falling behind. I was afraid that somebody else would get that gig if I didn't do it. But because I knew what I wanted to do and because I negotiated that price with myself at an early age, it was nothing for me. In fact, it felt good, man. I've already talked about this. Like the dopamine that goes off in your head, it was a drug. It was an adrenaline thing. It was natural. I felt good. I was getting up early, going to work, getting the line on the resume. So I felt good. But at the same time, to your point, the reason I was self-aware and that the one other advantage I had did this. I did this math. When I got to UCSB, I thought to myself, why you? Why you? You were not a professional athlete. You don't have an amazing look. You don't have an amazing voice, yet you want to be on the radio. Yet you want to be on TV. Exactly. What do you have to bring to it? Why you? And I couldn't answer the question at first. And I thought, man, if I don't come up with that answer, I'm not going to make it. So why you? Why you? Why you? And what I finally came down to was this. It's going to be me because I'm going to come at it differently with a different slant. Rather than being the answer man on the radio, I'm going to come at it with a declarative slant. I'm going to view. I take. Have a take, don't suck. And then the other thing that I was going to bring to it, if I wasn't smarter and I wasn't better, I damn what we're going to want. I was going to want it worse than anybody else. I was not going to give in. I was not going to give in. And I learned my lesson by going into business and sales. Luckily, I got my face beat in. So now I knew what it took. I'm like, this time you don't punk out. You lock in. No matter it's not up to you to know how long it's going to take, you just put your head down and you go to war until you find out. I freaking out was my thing. I freaking out was my thing. And that's what you're, that's what people that I know that know you, that's what you're known for. This dude has a psychowork ethic. He's ferocious. And I'm curious about the mechanism that drives you. Like that's loaded with stuff there for all of you trying to do something great. I want to, I'm curious. You said something like almost like fear based. Like, hey, I might miss this or it may good pass me or I'm that self-awareness piece is monster. You and I both, most of the most successful people we know are very self-aware. They know what they're good at. They know what they're not good at. That's it. You agree with that? Yes, I do. Yeah, I like immediately am meeting you too. It's like this, this is one of your great gifts. And I think it also gives you an element of humility too. Like, I know what I'm not good at. So I'm going to have to outwork somebody. But I'm curious what's made you to this day. I don't know the answer. I'm curious. Do you have this little thing where you're afraid it may leave you? Is that a driving mechanism for you or is it always what you're trying to create? Which one you'd say? It really is both those things. And I think one drives the other. And you understand this. I don't, yeah, I have this fear that they're going to come to me one day. Hey, listen, if they came to me today, if I walk outside your door and somebody came to me and said, yo, man, you better pretty good run. We really don't care. The last thing this world needs is a 50-something smack talker. And to hit the brakes, eh? And I far exceeded anything that I ever thought that I would do and it was a great run. However, I don't want it to end. And not for the reasons you may think. Like I'm not one of those guys like, I got to be on the radio. I got to be on TV. I got it. It's not about that ego. It's about the process. It's about wanting to be relevant. It's about me still wanting to be competitive. It's about me wanting to have another act. It's about me wanting to reinvent. It's about me wanting to have people look at me and my brands and say, damn, man, that guy's not looking for an off-ramp. That guy's not going away. I still care what that guy thinks. Because one day it will be over and it will be a great run. But man, I feel good and I'm still really motivated by the puzzle. Like the whole world has changed. It's not the way it was when I got in or when you were getting in. So now it's up to me intellectually to figure it out again. And I want to be able to say, hey, man, I did not give in and the world changed and I changed with it and I'm still relevant. That's important to me. It's still against me out of bed. Like literally right now as much as when you're that guy that get the $5 paid 30 day deal. Like you think you want it that bad, still right now? Yes, yes. And I frequently, I don't keep notes, but I don't have to. I remember what my mindset was. It was a weird deal. You probably know this too. Like I could get into a flow state back then. Like I knew. I knew I'd walk around campus and I could lose an hour at a time because I was just so into this. This is what I need to do. This is what I want. And if you think about it hard enough and you're vivid enough with your imagery and how badly you want it, you lose time, don't you? You do. You get into a flow state. You do 100%. And I knew it. And so now I'm trying to think back with any athlete, right? You guys always, they want to get back in the flow state. So when they have their best game ever, what did they do? They thought about what they did that morning. They thought about what music they listened to. They thought about the rituals. Yep. And I'm trying to think, man, do it again. Do it again. Do you have a big ritual you do? Do you have anything specific you do? You get up real early, don't you? Yeah, I drink coffee. That's my ritual. I meet you. I get up early, but not as early as I would like. And I fight that thing every single day. But I try to be very ritualistic about it, man. Get up, get going, get to work, lock in. And you know, like anybody else, like any entrepreneur watching, get yourself to do the things that you do not want to do, because that's also one of the separators between those who do and don't. Make yourself do the things you do not want to do and do them consistently. You guys think I wanted them on? You guys don't? Yeah, I think because a lot of us read the same things, think about the same things. Like even before I got into this, I probably read a lot of the stuff that you read on the way up. I would read Zig Ziglar, Augmentino, Tom Hopkins, Dale Carnegie, you know, like, and some of it resonated more than some of the other stuff, but I read a lot of that stuff. Yeah, I have this feeling and you don't need to acknowledge it. I think that some of your brand is going to end up in this area. I think that here's what's rare about you. And it is significantly different about you. When you were born with some incredible giftedness to articulate thoughts, let's be real. I mean, you're giving a great voice. You were giving the ability to think and process information through your mouth at the speed of thought. That's a very rare thing. But you seem to be, I think a lot of people, success leaves clues. I think there are a lot of people and you've met them too. I don't think they can explain to you why they're successful. A lot of people have arrived to success because they're not self-aware. They can't explain to you the steps. You're very unique and that you do know what the things were that made you who you are. And you can articulate them very well. I think you'd be short-changing people by not doing more of this stuff. This is fun. Yeah, I mean, it's fun. I like this. I've always liked this. And again, I don't, I think about these things. I think the reason I can articulate it is because I've thought about it long and hard because what you're talking about. I really, I'm not being cute when I say this. I really think that I'm pretty average in most things. So I wanted to figure out where I could be above average or way above average. And the only thing I kept coming back to was have a very different approach to the format as it exists. And if you're lucky, people will like it and then control what you can control and that's your attitude and your energy and your grit and your ability to deal with adversity and bounce back. Yeah. And you use something else. I've seen guys that outwork everybody the first year or the third or fourth year. And then there's this point where like they're bought. We all know these. They just get bought with their success. Their price tag gets met. And then all of a sudden they don't show up like they used to. They don't innovate. They don't evolve. They don't think through. For most people, what makes you special while so attracted to you is it's 30 plus years and you're still trying to get better. You're still fighting for these inches. That's the separators. Like, that's what separates to me, someone like a LeBron in his 17th year. Damn. Don't you? 100% I was just going to say to you that you will you will recognize this. It is exactly like LeBron. It's exactly like your guy Tom Brady. Explain to me how people who've had that much success that have paid that kind of price, that have all the shiny things and the view of the ocean. Why are they still working as hard as they are? Because you know what? It wasn't about the shiny things. It wasn't necessarily about that money. Man, it was about the right stuff. You in the right mind is still getting up at 3.30 in the morning when they've got money that they can't get to and their kids can't get to and they can't get to because they still want it so badly. This is what I'm saying. This is why I watch you and we talk to similar people. How do you bottle this stuff? How do we get this stuff? Yeah. And I want it. How do we use our kids? Right. Right. How do you use that? By the way, that's a whole sidebar. Yeah. But when you have this, your kids aren't coming up the way you came up. That's right. You're a kid never went to a public shower to swim in pool? Right. Because his old man busted his ass. Exactly. So how do you put that in your kid? And then by the way, if they don't want it as badly as that's fine. That's okay. That's okay. However, just know the whole world isn't this. It's tough out there. I do think one of the ways you do it. By the way, I have a dad from Boston too. Really? I was born in Boston and my dad. You were born in Boston. Yeah, and my mom and dad. My dad and mom are Boston too. But one of the things I've tried to do and you have the same situation, your children have grown up completely different than you grew up, right? But one of the things I think is a key to that is that they have seen their old man still after it. In other words, they've linked it to the work. So many kids that get to this and other things, so he's going to have his success if you have children. Your children may be later in life than your effort was paid. Your price was paid. My kids have still seeded me paying the price a bit after the money part. Don't you think? Oh, yeah. It's over. I bet if I asked your kids, they'd be like, hey, one thing about my dad, he's a horse. This dude gets up and goes all the time. They've linked what they see you doing to the work. Suppose maybe someone who inherited it or something. You'll get this. My son, Jake, so now he's a freshman at the University of Madison, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Madison. What I do on Fridays, we have a little ritual. I'll go in my backyard. It's probably like you had like, how hard do you work just to get the five feet over there? Right. It's not easy, right? So you spent your whole life trying to get to those five feet, but I bet it's hard to get to unless you already understand. I know I'm killing myself to get to that backyard. It doesn't happen very often on Friday afternoon. Once I've put in a long work week and I've done my workout, I'll go in the backyard and I'll pour myself a dull beverage. I'll take a picture of it and I'll send it to my kid and I'll write cheers. Love you, son. You know what he says to me? Dad? No pops. Pops? You earn that. I love that. I love that. And I'm like, man, that guy is just so deep. I keep it warm. Yes. He got it. He got it. Before he left the house. Not, not. Not send money. That mail come later on. That's what I like. But it's text always says you earned it. I love it. I love that. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. That's a key. Man, that's one of the keys. One of the things you've done well that I've noticed, so you said something that is another line that I agree with, line of thinking, I mean, I had a guy on here a few weeks going to him, Mark Laurie. He runs Walmart. He's had a couple big eggs. It's successful, dude. Pretty good. By the way, just at the combine for 250 grand, he's a 43 year old middle-aged white dude. For 250, he races Jerry Rice in the 40. How'd that go? He beat him. Yeah, man. By the way, Jerry's taking care of himself. Jerry's in still a good shape. This isn't like running against some guys put on 30 pounds. He beat him. It's just he didn't want some rich guy to beat him. Yeah, I know. But like with Jerry, he ran around about five flat 40, which at that age is remarkable. Anyway, one of the things he said was, I said, give me some advice for entrepreneurs. And he said, find something that already exists and just do it better. Quit trying to make up some brilliant things. Interesting. And what you've done on your show, I want you to talk about this for a minute. One of the separators for entrepreneurs for any business is culture. Your show with the vine, the jungle, the clones have a take, don't suck. The way you lead the group, the way you talk to them, there's a culture to the gym room experience. Did you consciously kind of create that whole deal? Not consciously, but I think it was part and parcel of what I was doing that was different. And I didn't know how they would react to it. Here's the funny thing. The real secret of the whole thing is, I just did on the radio what I was doing with my buddies in college. We just talked shit. I just love sports. And that's just the way I saw the world. Literally. I did not sit around with a legal pad at night and just think of, I'm going to just make up all these terms and just like call the nicks the brakes because they can't shoot the ball. That really was the way I saw the world. And we would just talk shit. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. They might pay me to come up with this as a format. Right. So, but luckily, again, understand the world that I came into. When I got my first big break in 1990, not to date myself, there were two sports talk radio stations in America. I was in FAN in New York and extra sports 690. In fact, when I started to apply for that station, which is a whole different story out of itself, they weren't even all sports. They were like news talk, but they had the Chargers rights and there was a sports talk show in the afternoon. They made a Mighty 690? Sure was. Yeah. Mighty 690, exactly. So, there was nothing. And when they did that, there certainly was not a format like that. You had a couple of gunners. They would kind of come pretty hard. But I just came at it a whole different way with a vernacular and the way I was kind of going after athletes and doing tough interviews. But smart, I want to make sure that I could always back up what I was saying. Like even if you didn't agree with it, it was well-reasoned. I didn't just get in there and start running off the mouth. You're not a hot taker. You like really believe the things you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You might not like me at all, but this is really who I am. Now, that said, that said, I think part of your thing might be like, I want to talk to this guy because I think there's more of this guy than that guy who's on the radio. Now, of course, it's a show. Now, don't get me wrong. I mean, I mean what I say and I say what I mean. And I wouldn't walk in at this back except the stuff that I was actually wrong about. I mean, this is who I am, but I don't go around talking smack 24 and 7. Right. It is a show. The one thing I didn't figure out too, be different, never give in, always keep coming, but give him a show. That much I understood early in my life. Make it a show. It's a show. Anything you regret, you've done? I mean, sure. I mean, sure. I mean, sure. I mean, yeah, I kind of regret calling Jim Everett Chris several times. I know he was so. But I didn't understand that situation better. That's really interesting. So Jim Everett, people know, a lot of people know me as the guy, the quarterback attacked him. Understand this about this, this incident. That was not a setup. That was not me. People think this really. What happened was there's a whole backstory to it that I've told a few times, but this guy was coming on the show and it was kind of interesting how it got booked. Like I didn't, I didn't say go get this guy as a guest, but I always had a standing policy. Yes. You understand that? We have always had a standing policy, especially back in the day when I was really coming hard, really coming hard, that if somebody, and I could tell you lots of stories about athletes, that had an issue and I said, if you have an issue, here I am. Here I am. Come on the show and we'll discuss this. And we'll be up for us. Come on the table, man. And so he wanted to be on the show and I'd been pretty critical of him. And I said, good, that's fine. But I didn't know how that came to be. So I said in my booker, did you call him? And my booker said no, he called us. I said, okay, because that's what my policy was. And then right before, like the night before, and I asked a question a few times, now you called him, he called us, right? Yes, yes, yes, Jim, he called us. Right before my booker had missed me, I called him. I said, all right, let's get on the phone and be sure that he knows. He knows. So my producer who is an extraordinarily successful guy, my name, Mark Shapirol, he ran ESPN for years. He now is with William Morris, where I am right now. And he said, he listen, you know, Rome is called you Chris Everett. Yes, we know. He's talking to him. He's like, yes, I know. He know he's going to say it on the show because he would never not say to a guy's face what he said about him on the radio. Yes, I know. We know what show we're getting on. But this is not going to be the show. We really want to do this interview. There's a lot here. He's like, I know, I'm aware. And then he came on. And then I said it. And then he goes, I bet you don't do it again. And I said it again. So one regret is I didn't need to say it again. And I really honestly, I didn't know he was that angry. It was live TV. And I didn't play it right. It was live. It was live. Yeah. And so I was a really bad day at work for me. Jim, good to have you on the show. Good to be here, Jim. Thank you. Check that Chris Everett. Good to have you on the show. You know what? You've been calling me that for about the last five years. Now, two years actually, Chris. Well, hey, let me say one thing. In that game, how many sex did I have that we came back in one? How many sex did you have? Yeah, how many games? How many sex? Let's see, but this was back in 1989. You may have even been Jim ever back there. But somewhere along the way, Jim, you ceased being Jim and you became Chris. Well, let me tell you a little secret that we're sitting here right now. And if you guys want to take a station break, you can. But if you call me Chris Everett to my face, one more time. I already did it twice. You better call it one more time. We better take a station break. Well, it's a five minute segment or five segment show. We got a long way to go. What do we do? We got a long way to go. I'll get a couple of segments out of you. I was going to be here with you though. Well, it's good to see you too. You've been talking like this behind my back for a long time. But now I said it right here. Right. Exactly. We got no problems. I think that you probably won't say it again. I bet I do. Okay. Chris. I was a really bad day at work. Was that a career threatening type day for you? You better was. You better was. And people, people to this day say to me, it made you. It made you. I was kind of take exception to that. I didn't want to be known for that. I did not want to be known for that. I moment look, I'm accountable. I had a bad day. That was my bad. I apologize for that a million times. I always will. I did not handle that well. Period. The backstory is pretty interesting though, to be honest with you. I mean, he knew what he was getting into. The reason I asked you. I think it's the thing though. Somebody said to me, excuse me. Somebody said, I think he was coming for you. I don't know that he was. I think that he got really upset and understandably so. I think in the moment, it didn't work. Of course he got upset. And you'll find this to be more interesting. For years, I tried to do the interview after it happened. I'm like, let's get some closure. And not for the wrong reason. Now people want to see it just to see it. Would you believe to this day we've never spoken? I tried for years and years and years to do the interview. And he always said no. And I just stopped asking after about 10 years. Well, of course, after a decade of asking. Maybe you'll see this in the green to do it. Maybe. Maybe I don't want to anymore. I had to make a way. The reason I asked you, I wasn't going to bring the incident up. I was going to see what you answered was, that's the other thing I kind of want people to get another lesson through you, is that that could have been a career altering day for you. It certainly didn't. It was scary. Right? It certainly didn't make you. That's not true. What's made you is the prolific culture you've created and your relentless work ethic over time. That's what's made you. Your preparation, the way you interact with the athletes, your ability to articulate. However, it's a great lesson. It's a great lesson because I look at a guy like our mutual buddy, A. Rod's a good buddy. And I look at A. Rod three, four years ago, he was a pariah. Like nobody in the world would touch him. And he's remade himself into this, like, he's the ESP, face of ESPN baseball. He's revered again, right? And so why that's important is, for everybody, a lot of us have this one mistake in our life. You could be a divorce, a bankruptcy. And we shame ourselves the rest of our life. Like, okay, I can't win again, because I've made this one particular error in our career. You're proof of that way. Whether there's an error or not on error, it was one of the most shocking sports interview moments in the history of sports interviews. And man, I want to give myself too much credit. It was one of the most shocking moments on TV. Ever. In a long time. I would say one more thing too. I don't know if you know this, but it's a little cheesy, but I think it is apropos. The only times did a piece shortly thereafter. And the title of the article was, is this the end of the Roman Empire? I put it on my mirror. I looked at it every day for a year. I sat every morning when I shaved. I sat every morning when I got out. Like they're speculating that my career is over before it starts. And so it's one thing to pump yourself up with don't give in, don't quit. Yeah, easy to say all that until adversity hits. Adversity hit. And you know, the world was different then. I mean, there was no social media then, which would have made it tougher, but I'll tell you what there was. There was Saturday night live, Katie Korak talking shit about me. They were killing me on Saturday night live. And so people like now say, yeah, well, that's awesome. And it's not awesome when you're in it. And you think that maybe you're not getting contracts renewed. And then all of a sudden, when people don't know you're going to restaurants and everybody knows you and it's for the wrong reason. Because it was one bad night. And let that be a lesson. You know, one bad decision could impact the rest of your life. During those moments, I'm curious about Janet. Yeah. So I've been married once. And she's had my back through a bunch of different ups and downs. You talk about Janet on the show, I think she's only been on the show like one time. Yeah, we both are. Both also have this thing where we're real private with our families. We're not doing a lot of posts and pictures and things like that. I'm protective of that too. But if you don't mind talking about it because I just think she's been such an important part of your life. How important has Janet been through moments like that in your career? Or you just like do your thing and she does her thing? No, no. She's definitely riding the middle of that whole thing. Because we met through the business. The funny thing about Janet, when I met Janet, she was way more successful at this business than I was. She was a vice president of the corporation that owned the Mighty Six 90. Janet heard me and tried to fire me right away. So Janet's a vice president of Human Resources. And the funny thing about, because the corporate office was in San Diego where the station was, but they owned several stations nationwide, they all had a vote at the conference table about programming. I always thought that was kind of weird that why is it counting voting on programming? Why is human resources voting on programming? Because they could, I guess. They did. Because I did this differently than anybody else had, they had never heard anything like that before. So Janet grows up in Long Beach. She's a huge Dodger fan. And I get on the radio and I said, let me tell you about Fernando Bowneswella. Man, that old man will be on food stamps by the end of the week. And she was, she was mortified. This is a church-going girl who grew up loving the Dodgers. And she was mortified. She's like, I don't know who the new guy is. I don't know where he came from. I moved that we fire him right now. Really? So I married her ultimately. You know? That's awesome. But the moral of that story is, she was doing way better than me, making a lot more money, way more successful. And she saw me before any of this happened. And so I kind of schooled her and my friends and family that when I came up and people who liked me loved me and people who didn't like me hated my guts and said things that were not nice. In some cases horrible and didn't know me and family and friends get really upset. I'm like, listen, this is part of it. This is what we signed up for. So you need to understand, you cannot react to this. You can't fight everybody who says something. Yeah, but they don't know you. You can't control that. So she knows that. So when it hit the fan, she was there. She was fine. That's awesome, man. You've had a great partner all these years, which led you into, I just want to talk about this for a little bit because I think it's a really weird part of your story. Like somehow the sports guys and all these other sports and I knew enough about you were no interest in horse business before. Like all of a sudden, you're like, and by the way, like anything you've done, like you didn't just do it a little bit. I mean, eventually you got into like, you're pretty deep. Yeah, I was really deep and I had no interest in that either. So you know, you know, you're interested in that. So there's a guy named Billy Koch. And Billy Koch actually was a college based ball player at Northwestern and Beverly Hills kid. And he was in this. He had a racing certificate. So what he would do is he would go out and he'd find people and they'd invest and they'd buy pieces of horse. And he saw me in Del Mar and said, hey, hey, hey, any new me. And he's like, you're gonna love this. I'm like, no, I won't. No, I won't have no interest. I have no interest. Why would I want to do that? I want to go to Del Mar. I want to watch the races. I'll put on a suit, have a few pops. And I'll do that once or twice a summer. And I'm good. He's like, not all you'll love. You'll love it. I didn't want to do it. Janet says me one night, you know, we should do this. I said, do what? She said, buy a horse. I'm like, why would I do that? You need a hobby. You need a hobby. We bought 10% of a horse. I go to Santa, the horse is Argentinian bread. They bring them in. He runs. And I was naive. I thought, I'm a sports talk show host. Man, I know everything. I didn't know that much about horse racing. I really didn't. Running styles, strategies, buy 10% of the horse. The horse is running dead last. I'm like, I must be the biggest sucker ever. That must be like, easy mark on my forehead. I'm like, I'm trying to put a stop on the check and then throw the race asshole. The horse comes from dead last to win the race in the most exciting fashion ever. And I've told this story. It's like somebody rolled up behind me and injected me with an equine crack. I look at this guy, I'm like, dude, you got anything else you can sell me? What else do you have for sale? And I couldn't stop and felt so amazing. So then I'm all in and some of the best and worst days of my life have been in the track. And you went up to like 14 horses or something, right? And then you get the misdirection. And you're talking about a horse that's like multiple victories at the breeders' cars. So yeah, so the really short version is so Janet's like, hey, how much money have we lost by the way, doing this? I'm like, a lot. She's like, maybe we should stop. I'm like, you told me to get a hobby. She goes, I didn't tell you to get one that expensive. Yeah, I said, here's the thing. One more time. There's this horse named Misdirection. She's like, Jimmy, stop. I'm like, listen to me. This horse, it's made and raised by nine half lengths. We've never been anywhere near an animal like this. I want to take one more shot. She's like, all right. So that was it. Misdirection literally saved my horse racing life because up until then that was the last shot. And then I bought in, they made us the majority owner. We ran our silks and she won two breeders cup races against the boys, which was unbelievable. And to this day, I've never experienced anything in business that felt like that first win that she had. It was the most surreal moment of my life that did not involve the things that matter. So that was the high, the lowest shared belief, right? The lowest shared belief. Just tell them about that. So share belief was a, so we sold Misdirection at auction because we wanted to retire her, give her the right life. Share believes the horse that we bought did. We thought we'd have some fun with. He was a gilding, OK? So you cannot. If they're gilded, they've got no residual value. You cannot breed them. That's why he was for sale. And we bought the horse and the horse was unbelievable. We had no idea. He went from a horse that we thought we'd have fun with to the top ranked thoroughbred in the world. He was the number one ranked horse in the world. He beat California Chrome. He won the award for the two-year-old male of the year. He won the Pacific class in Del Mar, which is the biggest race here, I think. The San need a handicap. I mean, I'm an unbelievable athlete. I'm unbelievable. And then he comes down with a call. I get this phone call one morning during my radio show from my race manager, Alex O'Lease, who says, Jim, the big horse has a call. And I said, oh my god. How bad is that? He goes, they're rushing him to David's medical center. He may not make it. Keep in mind, the horse is four. Got it. The horse has lived to be in their 20s. And he was like larger than life. And the horse passed away. And I'm still not over it. Like, it's like anything in life, right? The really bad things happen. You hope to get beyond it, but something you don't really ever get over. So it's like also in sports. The lows are much more intense than the highs are high. So as good as it was in misdirection one, the breeders kept twice the intensity of losing share belief like that. I think we'll far outweigh everything. I can see on your face. Yeah, it's hard, man. Even now. Like, yeah, I said to my, I told the story. Maybe you've seen the video I did. But I said to my 10-year-old at the time, Logan, it wasn't my office crying. My desk, it worked. I had this whole thing. Man, don't you ever cry at work. Don't cry. Don't care how bad your work is. You don't cry at work. Unless you get a phone call with some really bad news, you don't cry at work. And my 10-year-old goes, Dad, I've never seen you cry. I said, because I don't very much. Man, I love that animal. Man, I'm so sorry. I love that animal. But the whole reason you did it, I'm going to get into like your mind a little bit. So or you, I'm like, be real. I mean, I know you've been real. Like be real. You needed to hobby. That sounds like something my wife would say. And one of the things that I've always struggled with, and I just want people that are like this, maybe you're this way, maybe you're not. As much as I relate really well with people, I'm not like one of the guys. Do you know what I mean? No, I know exactly what you mean. Like my, because I think this is a model or a personality trait that I see in a lot of people that are successful, that surprises people. But like my social circle is not as big as most people would think. Like as many people as you and I both know, like who I really spend time with. It's surprising. I'm saying my head because I'm totally no exactly where you're going with that. So what is your, what is that like for you? Like is your social circle really as big as most people would think? Are you, or like what are you like socially? And what's your kind of, are you, are you a dude? He's like kind of playing grab bass with dudes all the time? Or are you typically more serious? No, no, I've got like four guys. Yeah, I got friends. I have associates. But I've got three or four dudes. Like I don't, I used to be a big Bombay Sapphire guy. So we had a Bombay Club because who drinks gin, only old men, old lawyers, and me, until I did. But I had a crew. I got some guys. And I don't want the guys. I'm not doing this in any order of importance. But my guys are guys like Rob Guthrie, Mike Treson, Matt Coleman. And I just have a crew. And we used to be almost fanatical about once a quarter. No matter where we are, we drop everything and we go out and we hit it pretty hard responsibly. And you know, as you get older, it's tougher because everybody has lives and kids. But no, my job was my thing. My career was my career in family, career in family. That's what it seems like. Family and career, family and career. I didn't need all that other stuff. And if I had to blow off some steam, I'd blow off some steam and they'd get right back to the grind. So when you say to me that you have a tight knit circle of the people who matter most to you that you want to hang out with, I understand that. I really believe what you said. Like I take the heart that I think you have some unbelievable gifts and talents. But I know from being around you now, this man's made it because he's a crazy competitor. He evolves, he works his ass off. And he flat out wants it probably more than most people, right? And I feel like I'm kind of in that boat in my own unique way too. Like I know I don't have a super high IQ. You know, I'm not six foot three. I'm not super gifted in any particular area. Yeah, but Ed, you can bench the house though. No, I can't bench the house. You know what I put, I had Michael Hurne on here. If you know who that is, that dude can bench the house. But comparatively speaking, but I do like, I really want to win. Like I really want to be somebody. I connect with athletes. I can't find what I think that is. Here's the thing, I always ask as I this. Nature or nurture, are you wired for it or are you a product of your culture? Where does that come from? What do you think? What do you think? For you. I think, okay, for me. Yeah. For me. This is the ultimate question of all questions right here. Because I have an upper middle class upbringing. Me too. Okay, I did not, I did not come up the hard way. I lived in a gated neighborhood. Okay, I didn't quite go there, but same the close. I mean, I wasn't, my parents were not wealthy, but they worked hard and they had a business and they did well. I'll be honest with you, me personally, because I might even be my old man, my dad. He passed away on his 59, he had leukemia. And this is amazing to me, really. Just side by really quickly, he was fine with it. I guess a strange thing. Like, he is Boston guy. He's diagnosed with cancer at 50, and he and my mother don't tell anybody. They don't tell anybody. They pull, yes, just us though. My sister and I, and they say to us, we're not telling anybody, I'm like, what, you just tell me you have leukemia and you're not telling anybody. He didn't tell his mother, they didn't tell anybody in business. They're like, this is how we're handling it. If you want to talk about it, we'll talk about it all day every day, but we're not talking about outside of these doors. I thought there was unbelievable. And then when it gets into his brain, and it's terminal, he has brain surgery, he's fine. He's fine. He's at peace. He's like, man, I had an amazing life. I've got these incredible kids. He didn't. You know, he's like, I have this, I never thought I'd be good in business. I am. Like, he was fine. He had this peace of mind, but we had this one talk back to your question. He's like, you got to relax. I'm like, what do you mean I got to relax? He's like, I don't know where you got your drive from. You didn't get it from me. I'm like, I don't know, dad, you better pretty good run. You didn't get it from me. So to answer your question, where did it come from? I don't know, man. I kind of had a chip on my shoulder. Maybe it was because I was a dorky kid. Maybe I don't know, but I wanted it. I wanted it, and I was able to feed it and tap into it. And you still do, though. That's the crazy part. You still do. I can feel you. I think you're as hungry like this minute after Hall of Fame, 30 years, millions of dollars in income, live a great life. You're just a game recognizes game. I think I'm kind of in the element, but no. I mean, I still, it gets me up in the morning still yet. And you got to answer your question. Now, where did yours come from? I think it's a great question. I think it's probably similar to yours. My dad, here's what I got from my dad. Maybe you did. I did model like a work ethic from my old man. Like in a decency from my parents that they treat people well. There's a, like I think I picked up some of that. I hope. But my dad never had ambition. My dad's told me many times. I just wanted to work and provide for the family. I wanted a good life. Like what the hell happened to you? My dad and I have this conversation all the time. And it sort of shocks him. I don't even think they saw. I think they knew they wanted me to be successful. But I'm not sure they thought whatever happened happened. I think that. So what happened? I don't know. I think some of it was that I was an undersized athlete stuff like that too. But again, I think it's probably more nature. Because I'll just, I, four siblings grew up in my household. We're very different people. Same stimulus, same family, same parents. And I'm different. I'm always fascinated by that. I am too. But I think that the people that have that psychostream, that have that I want to be somebody thing, need to know that it's great. Like my dad says it to me too. You need to chill. Like, hey, when's enough enough? And hey, even this morning we're talking about some deal I'm doing. And he's like, you know, put the pressure off yourself a little bit. Because I think as a parent you want them to be okay. Right. I don't know that that's, maybe it's good that he dials me in once or while that someone does that. But I wouldn't recommend that to somebody. Like if I'm not in pursuit of something, I'm miserable. I tried for like a half a year to like golf and sit on the beach. And I just, it's not what makes me happy. Yeah, but you enjoy this though, right? I do. Yeah, I think it'd be a real mistake to hit it. And it took me a long time to figure this out. I mean, you have all these things that you work so hard for. But you just keep grinding and grinding and grinding. And then it got away. Right. You didn't take that minute. Yeah. Well, I'm not saying dial it down. I'm not saying down shift. I'm saying this is the best view I've ever seen. Hopefully you get your ass out on that deck. And you have some of that tequila once in a while. I mean, you have to do it, right? We both had a little before we started to. I did. Well, maybe a little. You had a sip, but I had a lot. I had a little bit. I do do that. I think that's one of the things that maybe you're right. Maybe one of the things you're putting on something that's to me. Maybe I need to show that side of me a little bit more than people go. I want to be like that. Like I want to have some fun doing it too. Well, or not even show you. Just do it. Yeah, just do it, man. Just do it. Like I'm not saying it don't ever, ever compromise who you are and what you do because you're right. You're not going to be happy. Yeah, you're not going to be. What are you going to do? I did not get up in the morning and work out. Not get up and go to work. Right. You know, one day, maybe. I'm going to have a little bit of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.