End Defiance: Tactics for Strong-Willed 3-Year-Olds

I always say that's the fork in the road. It's like they blow out their birthday candles on their third birthday and they go one way or the other. They stop and think, do my parents know what they're doing or not? In other words, am I gonna take over or am I just gonna get easier? What kind of parenting traits or methods do you see happen when these kids are maybe becoming more difficult at three? It's all these mini therapy sessions, trying to reason with a toddler. It's a total disaster. They're all about actions. They're not about words. Welcome to the Brat Busters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother. And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Brat Busters. While I don't have kids, each episode will dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie, what are we talking about today? Today's topic is all about defiance from a strong-willed three-year-old. Yeah, that's a thing, all right? Yeah, we are focusing in right on that age because I feel like that is so common that you get questions about that age specifically. Well, and you know why. It's because I always say that's the fork in the road. It's like they blow out their birthday candles on their third birthday and they go one way or the other. They stop and think, do my parents know what they're doing or not? In other words, am I gonna take over or am I just gonna get easier? So it's like they stop and think. They know that you don't know what you're doing. If you're giving in all the time, if you look upset, you're getting angry, and they go wilder. Or they might just be easy kids anyway, but that is the fork in the road. They stop and think before they act and they usually get easier or more challenging, depending on your parenting style. That's something that I did note here is the idea that sometimes you'll get parents who are submitting a question and it's essentially along the lines of, you know, I had a couple of kids and they didn't give me any challenges. And then suddenly this third kid on their third birthday, they started giving me more challenges. Yeah, you were just lucky with the first two. They just weren't the confrontational type. Some kids are born super easy going. And, you know, nothing bothers them. They're just easier, basically. And now there's question everything and they challenge everything. So yeah, you just got a more challenging kid. You just didn't have to exercise your leadership with the first two, okay? But this third one, you do. You have to exercise your leadership. They're all different. And you've talked about how defiance, strong will, that can be such a positive. Because they often know who they are. They're often the ones who make big changes in the world later on, right? It's not usually the laid back one who doesn't ever challenge anything. It's the one who questions everything and challenges everything, which can be a real positive. If you're a leader, it can be a real positive. Because you don't mind answering and saying, well, let's look into that, right? But if they're rude, if you're not a leader, they'll be rude with that. So in itself, it's not a bad quality to be strong, willed and defiant. But it's got to be redirected in a positive way. And that's what leaders do. They direct it in a positive way. Now let's say that you are maybe listening to this. You have a toddler and you're thinking, how do I set up my calm leadership so that by the time they turn three, they see me as a calm leader? Well, their love language is play and fun. So you want to be fun. But if they ever act out during fun, a good example of this is I used to chase my kids around the house with underpants on my head a lot. I was called the panty monster. So I would, but if they'd ever been rude or acted out, I would have stopped right in my tracks and I would have calmly taken the underpants off my head. And I would have said, we'll try again tomorrow. They would have understood right away that the fun stopped if they acted out. So it's these little messages. I never put up with anything, any rude behavior at all with my kids. I always addressed it, but I didn't make a big deal out of it. I just said, we'll try again tomorrow or we'll try again later on. They got that. They just understood that mom doesn't take any crap, right? But I'm fun. Fun is their love language. If you're not connected, you got nothing to take away. I took away fun mom. That was my leverage. If a toddler's acting out, this toddler to me is 16 to 35 months. If they're acting out, you use consistent corrective actions. You remove them from the fun or the fun from them. And if I was playing with my kids and they acted out, I removed myself. I just got real quiet and boring real fast. I remember you had like zero tolerance for rudeness. Oh gosh. No, I would never tolerate rudeness for sure. I remember. I'm just gonna admit this one because you had no tolerance for it. I remember once you looked away and I just been frustrated. I don't know what you had said. I rolled my eyes at you from. You were turned away and it felt good. I didn't see it, but I wouldn't have said anything anyway. Like I just would have got, I just wouldn't have. I would have said, okay, well, you're allowed to get annoyed with me. That's okay. But you wouldn't have said anything. No, no. I think I may have just gone to my room to roll my eyes. Yeah, but you know, I never yelled at my kids either. So I respected them. I wasn't yelling at them or anything. So I never yelled. So it's a two way street. If you're yelling at your kids, you can't expect them not to yell at you and give you some flack too. It's not fair. So I treated my kids with respect. So I got it back. Now you touched on this earlier, but we've talked about the idea of like what you can do in the top of the ears to set yourself up for an easier three year old transition. But what kind of parenting traits or methods do you see happen when these kids are maybe becoming more difficult at three? It's these many therapy sessions discussing all their big feelings and big emotions. The other day I saw, and I have to be careful. I'm usually, I've recognized wherever I go usually now. So gotta be real careful. But I was watching this mom with a kid who was tantruming and this kid was throwing things, kicking things in a public space. And the mom kept saying, now I told you use gentle hands and she was talking and the kid got worse and worse and worse and she was hitting the mom. She should have just picked her up and taken her out of there right away. And it was frustrating for me because I never give unsolicited advice, right? And it's not in my business. But anyway, it was the talking through it. She's feeding it. She literally is feeding that fit. Rather than just pick her up, don't say anything, just pick her up and get her out of there. But it's all these many therapy sessions trying to reason with a toddler. It's a total disaster. They're all about actions. They're not about words. And you know this thing where they say, you get on their level, I've heard this years and years ago, I don't know if people are still doing this, it's ridiculous. They say you get on their level, hold their hands and get eye contact and you say to them, use your words. What a patronizing ignorant thing to say to a toddler. That is so ridiculous. They are using their words. Kicking and screaming is using their words. What you're saying to them is you're not good enough communicating in your level, rise up to my adult level. It's so patronizing and clueless. Stuff like that makes it tank. That's not leadership. That's totally disrespecting where they're at. Okay, totally disrespecting it. They may even parrot you. Like sometimes parents will say to me, you know, I talked to them, I discussed why it wasn't nice to hit your little brother or hit the dog or whatever. And they said, no, mummy. And then they promised they wouldn't do it again. They went over and they said, sorry to the little brother. And they said, no, I won't do it again. And then the parent, I always know what's coming. The parents said, can you believe it? They did it again. And I said, yeah, what's your point? They don't listen. That had nothing to do with anything. They're parroting you to shut you up. That's all they're doing. Okay, it's consistent corrective actions is what corrects them. It's not the mini therapy sessions, okay? That drives me insane. Cause it's not their language. They're not listening to you. They're gonna say whatever they have to say to shut you up and then they're gonna go right back to hitting again. I feel like I always need to come back at this now is that I understand where parents are coming from when they do this simply because a lot of parents, possibly when they were growing up, they felt unheard by their parents. They felt like they couldn't use their words or their words were not listened to. And so they're looking for a more empathetic, a more kind approach to parenting. And often this feels like the pathway there. The kindness is their words. Is the actions is kindness. You're entering their world when you're disciplining them. That is kindness, that is respect. They do feel more heard cause they feel understood, right? They don't feel understood. They feel like, what the heck are you going on about? When you're talking to them, trying to reason through with them, trying to do the mini therapy session, that is patronizing, that is not kind. That's your world. You're trying to pull them into your world. They're not there yet. They're two. You're trying to pull them into your 32 year old world and they're two years old. That's ridiculous. I get down on their level and I use actions. They're watching you. It's all about actions, consistent, corrective actions. That's all that works with them. And that is their world. That is showing them respect. They do feel heard. They do feel understood. I just wanted to give the perspective of, I can see where they're coming from. Yeah. I play hard with kids though. And that is their love language, okay? If you're not really connected with kids, I wouldn't do any of this discipline stuff. I would never ignore a tantrum if you're not willing to connect right after. The play and fun is their love language. You play hard with your kids. So then you've got more leverage, okay? Because all of a sudden you're super connected. The more connected you are with your kids, in their world, not your world, in their world, the more connected you are with them. The easier all this stuff is. Did you feel heard growing up? I definitely did. Yeah. I know my son did too. I felt very heard. My parents were not authority at all. And I was born in 1960. I was raised very differently. I told my mom everything. She was my leader. I was never yelled at or anything. Now, often when parents are struggling with defiance, strong-willed kids, that's actually a reason as to why you created your bootcamp for three to 12. But why specifically did you have it starting at three? Because three is really when that frontal, now I'm not a doctor or anything. I've got no degrees. It's that frontal lobe. It's the sense of reasoning. They have the ability to stop and think before they act. That's when the behavior board kicks in. They have the, it doesn't mean they're going to, but they have the ability to learn, to stop and think before they act. They're not as driven by impulses as a two-year-old. And it's literally right at around three, right at around 36 months, you see that shift. Of course there's exceptions, but you got to cut it off somewhere. If I was to say the behavior board starts at around two and a half to four and a quarter, I'd just say three, because I did notice it. I've worked with hundreds of kids and I noticed three is when they all have the ability to learn how to stop and think before they act. Maybe a little bit before, but not much. Like it's amazing, not much. I just need to come at it because you just said all. Of course there's special circumstances. And I speak in absolutes, it's just my personality type, but yeah, there's exceptions to everything. And I speak in disclaimers. Oh my God, we'd often laugh at that. She just claims, she said she could never be a doctor because even if she had an x-ray that showed a broken bone, she'd think, well, it looks like it could be broken, but I'm not entirely sure. I might want to get a second. There's a chance that you may be sort of kind of. Yeah, maybe, but then even then we can discuss it and I won't put it in writing. So anyway, but yeah, I do speak in absolutes, but that's the way I operate with this, okay? Now, what's interesting is in coaching, I'm pretty consistent, but there's a lot of exceptions, but it's nuances and it's context. So if I learn, I will go against what I say in public, like right now, but it's because I know the context and I know that I need to shift and change things. I don't go into all that when I'm talking to the public though. This is when I get to know the family, I understand their strengths and weaknesses. I will, there'll be a lot of exceptions, okay, to certain things, but once we've picked something and go with it, we don't use exceptions then. So once we pick a path, we stick to it. But I do change things up depending on what the family is going through, but these general terms, I keep it very general and I'm pretty comfortable with what I say overall. Okay, should we get into the parenting questions on this? Sure. The first one is Cody from the United States. I have a three-year-old and I've just started the behavior board. The issue I'm dealing with now is that when I tell him about anything, he will argue. So, hey buddy, you need to get your boots on or come get your code on. His response is big kids don't put on boots. And then maybe he threw the boots or the coat. And then I say, you threw, let's look at the board. Your rule is no throwing. You have 10 minutes to wipe down the kitchen table. His response, no mom, if you throw, you don't have to wipe down the kitchen table. And then it just goes back and forth, me saying you have 10 minutes, him saying no 30 minutes, me saying nine, him saying no. And it just goes on, usually ending in him not doing his consequence and arguing everything I say. I try to ignore it and just make the statement of time or no, I said X, but he keeps going at every turn with arguing, what am I doing wrong? I did shorten that question a little. You'd keep talking to him. That's what you're doing wrong. So you say, OK, time, what was the thing? What was the rule? What was the rule? So it says here, hey buddy, you need to get your boots on. So I don't know if that's specifically a rule. Let's go to the behavior board. The rule says what? The rule is no throwing. No throwing is the rule. So he throws, let's not get in to get your boots on. That's a whole other thing. So he throws and you say, oh, OK, let's go to the board. And you go over to the board and you say, OK, so you threw. So I'm going to get you to do this chore within 15 minutes or whatever it is. So you do the consequence, right? Now you're talking to him. I wouldn't do that. And then you say you're just counting down the time, but you're doing too much of it. You said 10 minutes, 9 minutes. I would just say 10 minutes. And now I'm busy. I'm doing the dishes or something. If he's going on and on arguing with me, I'm a timekeeper. I would just keep looking at the clock. And I might say, oh, five more minutes. I get real quiet, real quiet. Let him process it. He's just having fun with you. He's pulling you in. It's annoying you and you keep answering him. You keep feeding it. You're fertilizing that. OK? He's feeding off of it. So yeah, I would just say five more minutes. But you're not. But you don't do it if you do. And I'm like, mm-hmm. I'm doing the dishes, whatever. Oh, one more minute. Then the timer goes off. OK, let's go to the board. Let me see. So you threw something. Your consequence was do the chore and you didn't do that. So now 24 hour media blackout or whatever the second consequence is. And just follow through. You're discussing it too much. You're arguing with him. He's three years old. You're arguing with a three-year-old. Yeah, that's what's wrong. He's got a power trip because you keep responding to him. And it's bothering you, obviously. And he knows it. OK, the next one is Carolina from the United States. My three and a half-year-old is strong-willed, independent, sassy little girl. I truly love that about her. But I really struggle to manage her emotions and demands. While I know some of this may be normal toddler behavior, I see big differences between my three-year-old and my one-year-old in terms of personality and temperament. Most days, as soon as she wakes up before even leaving the room, something's already triggered her. So for example, deciding whether or not to drink her milk in my room versus the living room. From there, the rest of the day, it feels like an uphill battle. Almost every other task is met with extreme resistance, whining or crying. Sometimes even things I think will excite her seem to set her off. Of course, I get angry sometimes and raise my voice. I know that doesn't help, but I've been trying to ignore redirect for years at this point. I've also tried cutting back on giving her too many choices and guiding her through the day in a more firm, assertive, but still kind way. Since she was little, we've used consistent corrective actions, which I know has helped in some areas. And I've been very mindful of not spoiling her, helping her regulate her emotions, and managing her demands. But this is one issue we can't seem to figure out. Maybe I'm not supposed to, quote unquote, fix it, but what can I do to help her relax and enjoy life? I honestly don't know why she's always upset about, and I really don't want to crush her confidence in the process. It feels like such a difficult line to walk. I'll just pick one direction to go in, and it happened really quick. You didn't even have to keep going. It was really quick in the question. You said she argues over whether or not she's going to have her milk in the bedroom or in the living room. Why has she got a choice? You go drink your milk. The only place that you eat or drink is at the kitchen table. Then later, and I thought, so I wrote down choices. You're giving her too many choices. Later on in the question, you said maybe we're giving her too many choices. So that's what it is. Yeah, you're saying, what do you want to do? Do you want to do this? Just say that if you're playing with her, yes, give her choices. Say, well, what are we going to play today? Let her be in charge of the play. But everything else, like where she drinks her milk, what time she goes to bed, everything else, you be in charge of it. You're giving her, what do you want to wear today? A three-year-old does not need to decide what they're going to wear. If they're super easy going and they're really good at choosing, then sure, but if they're not, there's no way. I'd say, OK, this is what we're wearing today. You're giving her too many choices. You're giving her too much power. You're putting her in the leadership role, and then she's taken it and running with it. Are your kids driving you nuts? They don't have to. Check out bratbusters.com for my bootcamp courses if you want to learn how to become a leader. I think that is something where I can understand parents looking to give their kids autonomy and creating confident, independent kids, and possibly that's where this is stemming from with giving them choices. Yeah, but it just goes too far. Like I said, when you're playing or what sports you want to play, like I used to tell my kids, here's what sports you can join this semester, whatever, so you can pick it. But then I decide that where we're going and when we're going. And you know, but yeah, I did let them choose some things, but not the day-to-day where they're drinking their milk or where they're eating or drinking. They had no choice. Do you eat a drink at the dining room table or the kitchen table? That's it. They didn't even know you could eat or drink anywhere else. They didn't even know that was an option. She genuinely did not. They did not know. OK, then they were teenagers and they got it. But anyway, before that, they didn't even know. So you're giving them choices over stuff that's unnecessary to do. So she's taken it and she's running with it. OK, that's all. Have you heard about the phrase of decision fatigue? Decision fatigue. Well, I have, but not put to parenting. I'm wondering if do you find that that impacts kids if they have so many decisions to make in a day? Do you find that that overwhelms them the same way it does with adults? No. OK, I tried. No, I've never applied it that way. And I know where you're going with that. It makes sense. But no, I think they do like making choices because they don't they don't tend to get stressed like we do. Like their choices. Do you want to play with the farm animals or the Barbies? There's no stress if you pick the wrong one. Whereas with us, there is more stress in our decisions. They don't tend to have a lot of stress attached to their decisions. They don't have high stakes decisions. Exactly. That's the difference there. So if they make a choice and it's maybe not the one they would have liked, they just go with it. Once they're on that track, they just tend to go with it. So but yeah, if you're allowing them to choose, let's say you've got to get out the door and you're allowing your three year old to choose what they wear every single morning and they're difficult about it. Why on earth would you allow them to choose what they're going to wear in the morning? It doesn't make any sense at all to me. None. They're not happy. You're not happy. The thing is you want them to have autonomy. Yes, my kids did for sure. But not over it. Not if they, if they couldn't make a decision about what to wear and get out of the door on time, they weren't going to be making that decision. But if they were mature enough to make that decision, I would let them have it. Okay. And they knew that too. They knew if they, if they were very responsible and respectful, they could make all the decisions, but as soon as they weren't, I made it. Right. So that's the difference. So she's just, she's taken it. She's running with it. Yeah. You're, you're too wishy washy. You can eat here. You can, I could just tell, I could just tell instantly the way that question was going. You're giving her too many choices. You're trying to be this pleaser parent. You want her to be happy, but is she really? No, it's not working. Okay. The next one is Emily from the United States. What are your thoughts on teaching politeness to a three year old? So for example, using please and thank you, nice tone and asking instead of demanding or saying, I want. Also, what do you do with mini tantrums? Several times a day, my three year old stomps his feet or throw something on the floor when he's upset and doesn't get his own way. I usually sent him to sit on the stairs until he's cooled down. Otherwise the behavior continues. He usually gets up a minute later and is his happy self again. I know you don't like timeouts, but I don't know of a better way to cool him down. This method isn't helping stop the behavior. It's not working. Yeah. It, okay. The timeout, I don't like it. Get rid of it. Okay. You got to let him get himself out of it. You're, you're intervening. You're taking control of his fits. You want him to do it. Okay. That's the difference. Okay. With the manners. Yeah. I insist on manners. They don't get what they're asking for unless they use manners. That's it. I want that. I, I would go, who I'm still waiting. You know, and then they asked nicely, but I wouldn't be rude about it. Like I just say, I'm still waiting. And then if they ask nicely, then they are, I could still, I still might say no, but I'm not going to sort of entertain that question at all or that demand. No, I do insist on manners with kids for sure. Yeah, you did. Yeah. They'll eventually lean into it. If they want something, they've got to be nice about it. But also, do you say please and thank you? A lot of times parents yell at their kids. If you yell, that's very rude to yell at your kids. So if you yell, how can you expect them to be polite to you? I find that quite fascinating. So yeah, if you yell, you can't really expect them to be polite to you because they're not going to respect you if you yell. Okay. We have one final question. So Deanna from Canada. Hi, Lisa. My very strong willed three year old son has been a handful since the day he learned to crawl. I recently started to implement your strategies and have seen a vast improvement in his behavior. However, last night at bedtime, he started to throw a tantrum because he wanted to bring his toys to bed, even though he's only allowed his stuffy. This tantrum lasted one hour and 15 minutes, kicking, screaming, throwing himself, rolling around just nuts. I stayed close to him the entire time and was calm and quiet. While he did eventually stop, it was very hard to watch him in the state. My question is, did I do the right thing in continuing to ignore the tantrum? Or should I be doing something different since it's bedtime and there's a bit of a time restraint? How long is too long to let the tantrum go on? Well, I don't know about that question, the very last one, but also do you sometimes give in like how consistent are you with what he can take to bed? That's one thing. So make sure if you're, it sounds like you are consistent. So if he has a fit that one night, sounds to me like he's testing you. He doesn't trust you to follow through with that. He thinks he has a chance or he's just over tired and he's just having a fit. Anyway, I might just get a chair, sit in the room and read a book to myself quietly. So I'm still there while he's having it, but I am ignoring him. Okay, but it is bedtime. So yeah, I'd probably just sit and read a book to myself and not out loud, but just start reading a book or something and then just be there, but let him get through it all by himself. So yeah, I don't quite know what's going on there. Like why all of a sudden when he do that, if he knows the rule is it doesn't make any sense unless he's super overtired. Okay. And that was it for the questions. Okay. So it was defiance from strong willed three year old. Yeah, that is a real turning point. I always call it the fork in the road. That is when they have the ability to figure out whether or not you know what you're doing. And if you do, they tend to get easier and they tend to be happier too. And then if you don't know what you're doing, they tend to get more wild and more miserable. So think about it. Your leadership has so much control over how they turn out and how they project themselves and how happy they are too. Usually kids with leaders are very happy because they have guidance. They have someone they can tell everything to and they have someone they can play with. They want to be in charge of the fun. Give them that. The rest of the stuff you're in charge of. And that's okay. As they get older, you give them more responsibilities. But when they're little, you want to be in charge of what time they're going to bed, where they're eating, where they're drinking, what they're wearing. You want to be in charge of that stuff because they don't need to be in charge of that stuff. But if you're playing with Barbies or with blocks, let them be in charge of the play. Okay. You got to give them something, right? But you don't need to give them, you know, the stuff that needs to be done. Okay. I think that's it. Okay. You should have seen us before we started this podcast. Oh, we, okay. We do not get along when it comes to technology. We do not get along. Yeah. No, we do. We're best friends, but technology. She gets so annoyed with me and I always, I always say, but I'm so sweet and loving. So we were looking at each other and we can see each other on the screen. If you can see this, you'll get it. But if not, I'll try and explain it. So we were laughing and we were saying, and I was saying, yeah, but I'm, I never get angry. You're the one who gets angry. So I turned her, I thought my face was loving. I turned around and my face was like, yes, I looked angry. Is it? Turns out I'm not quite as calm as I thought. So you can understand when parents show frustration. Yes, I can. Well, it's because technology, obviously she's way better at it than I am. So I think her point was how on earth do you get so frustrated at me when I'm so sweet and loving to you? That was it. That was my point. And then I turned around and saw my face and I thought, oh, I don't look so sweet. I kid you not. I said, mom, we have to film a podcast. Let's just deal with this after. And you go, that is so patronizing. We need to talk about this now. So we did. And then we laughed about it. Yeah, we always end up laughing. Anyway, now we have to do some technology stuff. So we'll be at each other's throat. Do you want, should we leave it in? Should we film that? And oh, no, no, it's terrible. I usually end up sitting in a corner. She puts me in time out usually. So yeah, we get, we get pretty heated. Yeah, you don't agree with parents doing it, but I agree with kids doing it to their parents and I sit and I get better. I come out of that a lot better. I cry a little bit. It's better. Anyway, thanks so much for joining us. We back, we are a mother and daughter just to be clear. So thanks so much for joining us. We'll be back again soon talking about another parenting topic. Happy parenting. Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to dive deeper, check out bratbusters.com to learn more about the behavior board, parenting courses and private one-on-one coaching with Lisa. If you've enjoyed the show so far, we'd love it if you could take a moment to follow, rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more parents just like you. The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. Lisa is a parenting coach, mom and grandmother. She is not a licensed psychologist or counselor. Her services do not replace the care of psychologists or other healthcare professionals. 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