Episode 512: Released!

The world moves fast. You work day, even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Co-Pilot is your AI assistant for work, built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize. So you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more at microsoft.com slash m365 co-pilot. Today's episode comes to you from the Blu-Tue Studio. Right now, when you buy two months of Blu-Tue Gold, you get the third for free with the promo code wrestle at blu-tue.com. Welcome to something new, wrestle with it. Welcome to Rev-a-Wil. Bruce Prichard. Bruce Prichard. Well, you know, that's not a real. Let her rip. No, you have a mean. There's no box of gimmicks. Rumor in the new window. I don't deal in rumor in the new window. And was he there? I was there. Turn some of us. I don't give a shit. Welcome to something to wrestle with. Something to wrestle with. Something to wrestle with. Bruce Prichard. And the mortgage guy in your listing does something to wrestle with. John Layfield. John, what's going on, man? How are you? Bradshaw 316s and I just stole your fucking podcast. Well, boy, are we glad you did. We're having a blast here on something to wrestle. Thank all of you guys for joining us. And I guess we should just go ahead and start with the big news. It turns out JBL has been announced. I don't know if it's official yet, but the rumor in the new window is that John Bradshaw, Layfield, our great close personal friend is going to be the new GM of AAA. Congratulations, kind sir. Well deserved. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You know, it's actually not announced yet. May is actually going to be the official announcement date. So there is a chance that they could not put somebody else in there. It's not going to happen. I mean, Pauli Market and Calci and all the prediction markets have got me over a hundred percent chance of doing this. I'm destined to run Mexico. And so this is pretty much my destiny. And Mexico is celebrating right now because of this. Well, I'm excited to see it. Oh, look at the other throwing you a parade. That was an actual picture. I was down in Mexico just a couple of days ago and people were so excited about me being GM of AAA that they threw me this huge parade. It was such a great thing for people to do. Hugo Sanchez came out. So many of the boxers of Venere Canelo, all these guys came out to see me because of this. This is a wonderful thing for Mexico and for the world. Well, congrats, man. I know it's a big deal. I mean, you can tell from all the signs in the crowd that you are Mexico's greatest hero. And the room where it in your window is that this has been in your family for a long time, like all the way back to the pyramids, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, in fact, when the pyramids were being built back in the 1970s, I was a kid down there and there's a picture of there. I was, I was a big kid, as you can see. And I told the guys, I said, Hey, you guys need to make these pyramids where they like approach something astronomically. And they said, why would we do that? I said, do it like toward the equinox or something. They just had them randomly like being built in different places. But when I got done with them, they turned all the pyramids and they put them like toward the equinox. They put them toward Mars. They put them toward Jupiter. Michael Hayes was down there trying to get on and put it toward moon, the moon so he could moonwalk. They didn't want to do that. I feel like that's on you. He probably did say that's on you. Do you have any other Mexican tales you can regale us with? Yeah, you know, I worked down there, you know, quite a bit, but my whole family, you know, is down there in the part of the Mexican infrastructure and fabric. You know, I'm, you know, my family's so beloved. May 5th, Cinco de Mayo is actually JBL Day. Look, there's a calendar right there. That's an actual calendar. Oh, my God. They renamed it. That's amazing. They did. Cinco de Mayo is now JBL Day. Well, how about that boys and girls? I hope everybody's ready to celebrate. It's going to be here before you know it. I can't believe this is a real thing, but it's coming your way next Tuesday, JBL Day. Make plans to join us. We'll probably be finding a way to celebrate here at something to wrestle.com. And we've got a lot to talk about today, John, but the big news is not always good news. Normally, a WrestleMania season, there's a lot of excitement, a lot of fun. And for the past several years, it feels like one record after another. They said all kinds of records this year at WrestleMania, but then immediately after the entire wrestling world waits with fated breath, because it is inevitable there are going to be releases. The new budgets are going to be passed down. Cuts are going to have to be made. Unfortunately, people are going to see their WWE dream come to an end or at least go on pause for a bit. And what a name there was. I mean, there's such a huge list of names this time that kind of shocked me if I'm honest. And granted, there's a whole fleet of folks who've been let go from NXT and I have to admit in the developmental territory, I'm not as familiar with some of their work. Some of these guys, John, are kind of fresh off of TV and I wanted to talk to you about this. But I guess it's just a broader stroke. I mean, you've seen a lot of guys get their walking papers, guys like gender Mahal and guys like Drew McIntyre and so many others. I mean, Cody just threw his hands up about a frustration and he leaves and they come back and man, time after time, they become more successful. Those three examples we just named went on to be world champions. So this doesn't mean it's the end. Do you have any words of encouragement at all on a whole, John? Yeah, you know, you got a chance here to go make a name for yourself. And if you're getting released, then odds are they weren't going to do anything with you anyway. You were just going to buy a time. Now you're going to collect a check, which is good, but you weren't going to have a big future there. And so it's better you get released. I know that's hard to say. I've been fired before a few times. So I understand and it sucks, absolutely sucks, especially the first time you've been fired. You don't know what to do. You can't believe it. Love these guys. Our girls are terrific athletes. So I've never really had any adversity. This one of the first times they've ever had any adversity. I mean, that first happens, happened to me too. It just, it debilitates you. But then you realize that, hey, life goes on. You got to figure out something. And if you're released like this, consider it a blessing because if you're on the bubble there and they consider you that way, they won't do anything with you anyway. You were just going to buy a time and eventually get released anyway. And so it's better to be released now. That way you can start making a name for yourself somewhere else. And you look at these guys, Jesse Ventura was one of the first ones that I heard say, when he went off, became governor, and all of a sudden they wanted him back. He had sued the company. He had learned a lot of animosity there. And all of a sudden he makes this big name for himself. And all of a sudden he comes back. He's the referee at SummerSlam that one year. And Jesse was one of the ones in one of his speeches that said, oh, you make a name for yourself somewhere else. You become a lot more valuable. Well, that's what you got to do. And that's what you have to do. But if you do it now, or if you've done it before, you still got to do it. You got to build your name somewhere. But it was on the Indies before to get there, to build a name when you after you get there, or to get to WB and then have to build your name. You're going to have to do it anyway. So go out there and figure out it. That's what you want to do in life. Figure that out first. And if it is, figure out a plan and get to work. You know, that's something that I have not heard anybody else say. I appreciate your perspective on that. The idea being, hey, if you were getting released, they weren't going to do anything with you anyway. I mean, that really is stating the obvious. We all kind of know that when we think about it. But I feel like we have such emotional response to guys losing their jobs that we don't really think that through. But creatively, it tells you they're not going to be fulfilled. And to your point, hey, it does suck to lose a check, but you can probably go recreate the check and find that check somewhere else. But this is doing you a favor on because it is sort of short cutting. It's jumpstarting the next step. Yeah, it is. And you've got to figure out what you got to do anyway. And if you're not released now, you're going to be older and you're going to be less valuable if you've been there longer and you've been buried as far as not doing anything with you creatively. So it's better to get out now and get out and figure out something you got your can do in life. If this is what you want to do, this is a great opportunity for you. And it sucks. Believe me. And again, I have been there. I understand. I'm not talking from somebody that hasn't had experience. I've had experience with this. You got to figure out what you want to do in life. And if you do, you go out there and build yourself a name. Thank God you've been at WB. So you got a better name than everybody else that you're going to be trying to get jobs from on the Indies, for the most part. There's a few guys out there that have some really big names and done well. But for the most part, you're going to have a bigger name because of where you've been. People are going to want you leverage that figure out what you want to do in life and then figure out a way to come back. Eventually, everybody works their way back or for the most part they do, you know, a few don't, but figure out how you're going to make money. I've never seen the wrestling business hotter and the Indies are hot as they can be. Now is the time to go out there and figure out what you want to do in life. John's had me up. You know, I know that you've spent most of your entire career with WWE, but you did bounce around a little bit beforehand. But there had to be times where you were frustrated creatively in WWE. And you've talked about once upon a time, you weren't sure when you and your brother Barry went to Japan, you weren't sure if you were going to be coming back to a job. So let's go ahead and secure a job over in Japan. Do you remember any times where you were creatively frustrated where you thought, Hey, it might actually be better to go get a change of scenery and come back? Yeah, that was the biggest by far. You know, right after the Montreal Screwjob, you know, Barry and I were there and then we flew with the Japan two days later. And reason we went to Japan was WWE wants to be liaisons between Japan and WWE Old Japan, as compared to say New Japan, which was an okay Old Japan was Baba. And New Japan had a deal with WCW. Well, WWE was trying to match a lot of stuff that WCW had done. Me and Barry were like the olive branch that went over there. You know, it didn't work out as far as Barry, because we didn't realize that Lauren Nytus was already in that role. And so there wasn't a spot for that liaison. He became the liaison that was between WWE and Japan. And for me, I was going to get a job there. I just came back from Japan and had a contract offer because the world changed after the Montreal Screwjob, people started offering contracts to people. And despite the fact that Justin Altman shall nobody wanted, now, suddenly they just don't lose anybody. And I got lucky. I got incredibly lucky. But yeah, there were times were creative during that whole time leading up that I realized that, you know, I'm probably going to Japan to finish out my career. I just wanted to make as big a name as I could myself. I didn't wasn't on Bernie Bridges wasn't going to do anything stupid. But I realized that I was probably not going to be there very long. It just all changed after the Montreal Screwjob because the world changed as far as guaranteed contracts. Obviously worked out the way it was supposed to. But way back when let's go back to like November of 97. How many more years did you think you would be wrestling? Did you think, Hey, I'm going to do this for three more years or five more years or 10 more years? Like, did you have some sort of time frame of, Hey, by this age or once I've saved X amount of dollars or when you thought about your your athletic career, I'm sure you knew it. It has a shelf life. All professional athletes and endeavors do. Did you know what yours was? Like, what was your goal? Yeah, I don't know what it was. I thought I'd be in WWE for two to three years. That's about what heels had to run there. Heels didn't stay very long, you know, in anywhere back, back then in territories. And I thought I'd go to Japan and finish up over there with Stan and Bobby Duncan, who was my first tag team partner was over there with Stan. So I had a good, you know, had good relationship with those guys with doc and all bright, all those guys. So I figured I would end up in Japan, but I had already talked with James Beard, the referee from Texas, who's going to the Hall of Fame in Waterloo, Iowa this year, well deserved, in the Von Erick movie. James was a good friend of mine. We both looked into going to chiropractic college and we'd already gotten all the stuff, information for it. I figured I'd go to Japan after I got a job there. Then I go to chiropractic college in between tours and get my chiropractic degree and be a chiropractor or be a coach. You know, I'd coached a couple years. So I wasn't sure exactly, I'm just kind of giving myself a ton of options, but I didn't think I'd be in the wrestling business that long. I just figured I'd be able to go to Japan and make a living for a number of years until I could get on with life. And when you were thinking about, you know, your working life in Japan, back then it was mostly tours, right? So did you imagine you'd go over for two weeks and then be back for a bit? Or what was the plan like as a full-time American citizen who's going to try to make a full-time living in Japan in more of the tour era, if that makes sense? Yeah, all Japan was, the tours were much longer than they say. Like, you know, first one over for Kendo Nagasaki with N-O-W, then I went with for Mr. Tenro with W-A-R and then, which had split from an Oki. Both of those had tenories split from an Oki and then Kendo had an amicable split from Mr. Tenro. But those tours were short. The tours for all Japan were longer, four or five weeks. And that's kind of what I figured was that I would try to arrange my tours where I could do things, either be a coach or go back to chiropractic college like me and Chang Spear had started looking into. So you can arrange your tours a lot if you had some stroke. And I figured that I could, you know, that style fit me really well. I thought I could, I thought I could get over, didn't know for sure, but I thought I could in Japan if I could, then I could kind of dictate where, when and where my tours would be, at least on the calendar. And so that's what I was planning on doing. Once upon a time, we all heard how terrific the paydays were in Japan, you know, whether you were the road warriors or Terry Gordy or Bruiser Brody, or if you were a big time American star, when you would go over there, you could make a King's ransom on a weekly basis. And it was a guarantee on these tours. Was that still an option? I mean, what was a realistic payday? Like if you were a top guy in Japan and say 97, what would like the top pay scale for an American per week be over there back then? I don't know. I, you know, I've heard some crazy numbers about Stan and I don't want to say them because I don't know for sure. You know, I heard from between 10 and 20 and that is a wide range. And I know that. So I don't know. I think, I think I got 7,500. I think it was when I went for all Japan, I believe I got under 5,000 a week. It was like 3,500 for TINRU, I believe it was, which wasn't a big payday. I know, I was, because they told me Kim Duck was there. He got five grand for the tour. So that's kind of what I figured my spot could be at for TINRU because I knew, I knew what Kim Duck had gotten paid. You know, I didn't know what anybody else got, but that's what I figured. I figured he can make 10 to 12 is what I was guessing at the time. But I don't know that for sure. I don't know for 100% for sure what Doc made, what Albright made, what Duncan made or Stan made or Larnan, I still don't know because they guys did not discuss their wages back then. In 97, would you know before you went over, like would it be discussed or would you not really know until it was over? Because I know in the WWE sometimes you're paid off the house and you don't really know and then you get your check and if you're happy with it, great. And if not, well, maybe you got to talk to JR or whatever the case may be. What was the circumstance when you went to Japan back then? Was it a guarantee upfront and you knew or was it a mystery and then you opened your check and found out? Nope, never a mystery. As far as I know, I don't think anybody went over there as a mystery. As far as I know, as far as I know, everybody went over there on a guarantee and you got the money before your last night, your last match. In fact, I was telling a funny story. I got paid for my last matches. That was all my rent money because I was over two or three weeks and I forget what it was, but I got several thousand dollars and that was my rent money and I was scared to leave it in my bag because they told me that one of the guys at a habit of pension stuff stealing money. I don't know if they knew for sure. And right before I walked out, I went over to the guy that they claimed was the person, the alleged thief and I gave him my money right in front of everybody. I said, Hey man, would you watch my money? I'm scared somebody's going to steal it and I gave him every bit of my money because I knew if I handed it to him, no one else could steal it. So, let's be a country adverse. We enjoyed that. That was good. It is an all time reverse. You know, one of the more brilliant things I've ever heard. I don't even know how you could beat that. What a story. How can you top that? It was unbelievable because I didn't know what to do and I was scared to death and leave my money there because I thought, man, that's all my rent money for the next five or six months. I thought, I can't have this money stolen. So, somebody told me who they thought had pitched some money from before and I walked her right in front of everybody just handing in my money. I said, Hey man, would you watch my money? I said, I appreciate it. I don't want anybody stealing this. I need this money and gave it to the thief. Crazy like a fox. You'd be crazy, by the way, to not check out Bluetooth gold. The future of erectile function is here. Bluetooth gold is changing the way millions of men are having sex in 2026. Their new arousal boosting formula combines passion and performance into one tablet and it dissolves under your tongue for super fast onset. That means there's no more waiting for appeal to kick in. There's no more moments ruined by performance anxiety. 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What if the key to living better isn't about making life easier from New York Times best selling author and journalist, Michael Easter. 2% is a twice weekly podcast exploring the science of living better by doing things the hard way from mental toughness to movement, ancient wisdom to cutting edge science. 2% blend science storytelling and practical advice to help you live a bolder, better and more meaningful life. One uncomfortable idea at a time. Building on insights from his number one sub stack and acclaimed books, Michael balances rigorous evidence with a healthy dose of skepticism to cut through the noise of the modern wellness industry. 2% isn't a show for biohacking perfectionists. Whether Easter's interviewing elite explorers and Harvard biologists or deconstructing the truth about longevity and metabolic health. This show is a grounded offering humorous guide for real people looking to build resilience and agency in an increasingly comfortable world. In each episode, you'll discover why the antidote to modern malaise is often found in the challenges we've been taught to avoid. Listen to 2% or every you get your podcast new episodes drop every Tuesday and Thursday. So listen, I don't know if this is real or not, but there's a report from our buddy Mike Johnson over PwInsider. I've been buddies with Mike for like 15 years. Do you ever listen to Chipa Mike John? I don't know. I don't even know if I've ever met him. I don't think I have. I followed it. Some of the stuff, you know, I get, you know, some stuff online. I don't read like the newsletters and stuff, but I've seen a lot of his stuff. I know, you know, exactly who is, but I don't, I don't think I've ever met him. But if I do, I apologize to him because I don't, I'm not sure even what he looks like. Well, I can't wait for you to hear this quote. This is a report from Mike Johnson. He did a Q and A for PwInsider.com and here's the quote. I don't know if there's a pattern, but I can tell you there's been a story dancing or bouncing around among talent that someone in TKO isn't a fan of the darker characters. And that's been the blame placed on while the Wyats, Alistair Black, Selena, et cetera, were all cut. One person even suggested to me that Undertaker being the American badass and not the dead man in appearances is proof on that outlook. I have no way to prove that is correct, but the story has made the rounds this past week amongst numerous people we've spoken with. Whether there's something to it or just assumptions, I can't verify this juncture. I guess we'll see if and when WWE leans back into supernatural and dark characters again. I have to admit, Joanne, and I know that this is sacrilege to admit on a WWE podcast like this, you know, where Bruce's favorite and most proud creation is the Kane and Undertaker storyline, but I did not and do not like the supernatural element. I understand it's fun and I know a lot of people like it, but I can't say it's just not for me, but this same company just printed money for so long with the Undertaker and later Bray Wyatt. I don't know if I believe this, but hey, that was Vince. This is a new regime. What do you make of this? I guess we call it speculation, maybe from my own. So first of all, were you not a fan of the Undertaker character? No, sir. I wasn't really. No, I like the, I'm the, I'm the weird guy and I'm going to get a lot of hate tweets about this, but I like the American badass version better. But when you're telling me this is an undead zombie who can summon lightning and we're going to kill him and he's going to float to heaven. I'm a little bit like, I'm going to go take a piss. I'll be back. I'll get a beer. But I love the American badass and I know people listening to this who grew up with the Undertaker. They absolutely hate that. But I mean, I hated when the Undertaker character came out. Maybe it's because I was scared and I was a little kid and I love Hulk Hogan. I don't know. But I was never an Undertaker fan. Now the real guy and his work and his matches and all that, great. But this whole I can point and fucking lightning bolt shoot out. I'm like, I don't know, man. Come on. I just hated being put in caskets. So that's all I hated because I would always end up in caskets and then somehow they never could find the key when I get backstage. It was like, it's like the ultimate rim. Like, come on, guys, please, you've done this to me like four nights in a row. I understand. I'm going to be in the casket. Well, please somebody let me out of this son of a bitch. Yeah. And it was, they'd always like, when they, when they're seeking or somebody else, they try to stick you in like opposite, you know, like you're, like you're sitting there. So now you've got this man crotch in your face, you know, and you're in a casket. So it's like the worst of everything. So yeah, yeah, that's the part I don't like. I, there, but the supernatural character, I don't know. I worked with the taker so much. I loved it. But I love, I love taker. So that's, you know, I didn't, I had never heard that kind of before that fear. You are not a fan of the supernatural. Well, I love the matches. Like I can watch an Undertaker and I love his sit up. I like all that stuff, but the whole he's dead or he's not dead or he's a zombie and he's a devil worshiper and we're going to put somebody on a crucifix and now we're going to float to heaven and we're going to summon lightning and comedy. Let me tell you something great. Okay. So one time Vince was in the production meeting and he's going, we've got to, we've got to be more legit. We got to be serious. I think it's got to be real. It's got to be this, got to be that. Now we had an Undertaker, you know, dead, not dead, all that stuff. I get that. But we got to be real. Everything's going to be real. God, we can't swerve these people. That day, Hornswoggle ran through a dark thing in the wall, you know, like the cartoon went through, actually hit the wall, and they were using like lucky charms, like actually lucky charm cereal to like attract Hornswoggle to try to catch him in a trap. We did that that day on the day that Vince said, got to be real. It was just like, where's the other guy? Wait a minute. It was just great. You know, Vince could be awesome. Just awesome to deal with. He could be swayed. It does sound like. Let's talk about some of the talent that we're let go. I know a lot of people, myself included, were really surprised to see Alistair Black released. Of course, we know that he had quite a run in NXT. It certainly felt like he was one of Hunter's guys. He gets moved to the main roster. And then when there's some management changes, he's out. He lands in AEW and there's rumor in innuendo that he couldn't wait to get back to WWE. So when he came back to WWE last year, because it's he's only been back like a year, I think a lot of people thought, Hey, now's his chance. Hunter's in the big seat. He's going to be on the main roster and even leading up to WrestleMania this year. We saw him in the background of a lot of Cody Rhodes segments. And there was even speculation that the Pat McAfee role Alistar was supposed to have a role in there. And so I'm kind of scratching my head as to, Hey, what the hell happened? Why is Alistair Black not enjoying more success in WWE? And earlier today, I chatted with Eric Bischoff and I asked Eric's opinion. And I would have what I think I may call a light bulb moment listening to Eric's explanation. John, I want you to hear Eric's take and then I'll see what you think about this. My take is that Alistair has a very narrow perspective of who he is and what he is as a character. And I don't mean that in any kind, not in terms of stature, but I think the way Alistair sees his character in his head is so narrow. Or in another way of saying that is he's so focused. There you go. One way is kind of a good way, right? But they're both kind of the same thing. And because he's been in and out, it's not like people don't see the potential starting with Paul Heyman, you know, and Vince hung in there with him for quite a while and then he went over to AEW and now he's back, you know, in the market again. So it's not like no one believes in him or believes he has the potential. But I think what people are finding out is he doesn't have the ability or the willingness or the comfort level, whatever you want to call it, to broaden that character. Because the one he has in mind isn't working. If it was working, if it was working, he wouldn't have got cut. If it was working, he'd still be in AEW. It's not working and it hasn't worked. So what do you do? Do you keep doing it? Or you go, maybe if I tilt it 20 degrees this way? And how do I do that? I'm going to do this. Oh, I'm going to start doing this. I'm going to start doing it. That's way different to what I've been doing. Well, that's kind of the point. I don't know, man. I just think he's got all the points. And I'm, I actually am, I'm hoping he lands on his feet and finds that groove in a version of the character that he's clearly kind of focused on because I do believe he's got a lot of talent and he's got something special about him that's a little hard to define. But, you know, you feel it when you get within about four feet of him. It's just an energy and it's not bad. It's not good. It's just, it's there. You know, charisma or whatever you want to call it. So he's got that. He just hasn't been able to package it in a way and execute it that works for the audience. You know, Scotty Levy is an example in my life, you know, in my professional life. Scotty Levy saw once that broke in whatever the Kurt Cobain kind of manically depressive grunge culture, whatever that was for as long as it was, man, Ray was just zeroed in on that. And he was either going to make it work or die trying. And it just didn't. It worked for a small niche. It clearly connected with within that small niche of audience. It clearly connected because people will still talk about it today. There's just not enough of them or it to matter. So you get the local, you get the most vocal of that narrow percentage of audience that clicks with that character, right? They're going to be really passionate about it. So passionate, they may not be interested in anything else, but it's not going to work commercially. And I think Alistair in his own way, he's got himself pigeonholed in a similar fashion. I love the comparison to Raven. I'll admit it was a blind spot for me. I didn't really see it. I grew up as a big Raven fan and always wondered, Hey man, why did they not do more with Raven? And when Eric laid that out, I thought, God, Leo was right in front of me the whole time. What do you make of Eric's comments, John? I thought they're very good. You know, it comes from a guy who's been in charge of characters before. You can see the thought process of Eric Bischoff. I think Eric's a very smart guy. But basically what he's saying, at least the way I would characterize it is depth. You know, these guys don't have depth, which is different ways of saying the exact same thing. Look at Undertaker. He had incredible depth. I mean, there was always something new in ration, something different with him, something new, something it was always changing, always. And I can see that. I mean, I can see what Eric is talking about that, you know, I agree with what he says about Alistair. I think there's some type of innate aura or charisma with him that there's something that draws you to him. He's got something there that is very appealing. And I think he's very talented. But I think Eric can be right. The depth is can what get you because once you're one dimensional, you know, it's the old thing. If you've got a monster and you beat him, the monster is dead. You got a giant and you beat him, monster, you know, the giant's dead. You got a person that's undefeated. You know, they always say in WTV, now that you've got beaten, don't bite heels. Now you can go make money because once you take that stigma off people, you know, like, oh, he's undefeated, you know, that's the worst freaking thing in the world because eventually you have to be beaten. And especially as a heel. And but so you and you got to have depth and I can see that. I think what Eric's saying is very, very knowledgeable is in the wrestling business. Well, we also talked to J.R. specifically about Alistair Black. We know that he shared some time with him and AEW. We also know that J.R. used to be in that head of talent relations seat. Here's what good old J.R. had to say about Alistair. I think he could do himself a favor by simply stepping away for a while. He's got 90 day no compete anyway. So how much, how can you improve in 90 days? Alistair, that's my question to you. What can you do to make your game better? Because I think the guy's got a good upside. He's a main event level talent. Got a good gimmick and so, you know, that's what I do for him. But he's a keeper. There's no doubt about that. He's a runner, a foul of the establishment time and time. I don't know why that is. I'm not working with him in that regard. So I don't know why that is, but whatever it is, my advice to him would be to get over it. Don't, don't be so critical of things. Just be critical of your own work and making it better. But Alistair would be good or off looking at, looking a lot of old tape, working on new scenarios. Don't use the same closing sequence every time. Change your game up a little bit while relying on the strengths of your game, which are your feet. He's a striker and he's got that great kickboxing skills. He's got a refined game. So that's what I'd say to him. But I sure as hell would keep my, keep in touch. Embrace the fact that he's wanted and we're going to give you a shot at main events, pay for views, thanks to that nature. But you got to get better at what you do and you got to have the right attitude. He has to have a set of rules that he can live with to base the foundation of his work on. You got to have a mentor. I got a coffee cup someplace that says, it's a John Wayne. I got a lot of John Wayne memory bill you. And it was something along the lines of a man's going to have a creed to live by. Well, he's had several chances now. He's not no young kid. So it might be time to make slight tweaks to the psychological aspect of his presentation. He's really good though. I like him. If I'm telling you that I, if I was booking and he, in all the level playing field, in other words, he was being a good citizen and he's been a top pro. He's a man of that guy and those guys are growing trees. Strong praise from the voice of wrestling, good old JR. What do you think of a JR's assessment of the whole situation? 100% agree. I think Alistair is a main event guy and I think Alistair has to change. You know, something that Eric and JR, but two very smart guys have both said is what you see when guys that go away. Think about guys who've gone away and have come back. Something has changed in them. They've done something to modify their character. They've done something to get over whatever that is. There's a reason to bring them back. I think Alistair is a main event guy. I think there's an aura and there's a charisma about him that is innate, that draws you to him. I think he has a lot of the intangibles. Whatever he's done has not worked. And so maybe that's the fault of the creative people that didn't see the right things in him. Don't know, but those people are the ones that are in charge and they're still in charge and they're going to be in charge. So you've got to figure out what you can do if indeed you want to come back, which I assume that he will want to do because that's where the real money is going to be. You can make some money on independence. You make some money in Japan now. Thankfully, the real money is coming back or going to AEW, the two big companies. There's some other companies out there you can sign with. Those were the big money is, but you got to figure out something different because what you've done has not worked. Now, maybe that's the fault of the people that are creative. And look, I said, I think Alistair is a main event guy. I think he's got an aura and charisma about him. He's got all the intangibles, but what he's done is not worked. So you got to do something different. You got to figure out a different iteration of the same character. You got to figure out a different character. Whatever the heck it is, you got to start throwing stuff at the wall and figure out what it is. You got to go to these independence and start trying a million different things. Try something at one of these independence and see if it works. If it doesn't work, not on TV, doesn't matter, doesn't care. It's just as valuable as stuff that works because you put what doesn't work in the bag too. You're okay. I'm not going to try that anymore, but you might find something that works. You got to go out there and try a million different things because what you've done has not got you staying at the dance. You want back to the dance, you got to figure out something else to do. Not being funny, but you came into the company as Justin Hawke Bradshaw. Then we saw you as a new blackjack, then an acolyte, then APA, then the wrestling guide. But when you first started, you probably didn't plan on any of those other characters besides that initial one, right? No, nobody does. I mean, it's amazing when the first character that people have, I mean, very few guys are like Kurt Angle or Lex Luger that end up start with the main event and just stay there. Most guys are like me. I say most like 99%, especially guys who end up making it to somewhere to the top level or the main event top level. You have a million different characters and you talk to them, what was your first character? What was Holly Wraith? Jack Long? His first character? Guys were always, you start with a character, you think, man, this is a great character. This is going to take me to the main event. You're convinced of it. Then all of a sudden, you're in a complete different character. And then you're in a complete different character from that. Then when you finally make it, Steve Austin was the ringmaster. That's right. Dean was a dentist. Triple H was an aristocrat. Billy was rock a billy. Road dog was a roadie. I mean, there were guys I can go on and on and on about people that made it that were in completely different characters. Alistair Black is no different. He may come back in something completely different. And when he does, he's going to make it. Everybody's on some man. We knew he was talented. And he is talented. There's no doubt about that. You just got to figure out something that works. There's a lot of really talented people who just got their release, John. Most of those folks are going to be under a 90 day non-compete. I think the terms are a little different for NXT. And I know that some of these contracts were just coming to an end. So maybe some will show up sooner than later, but you've started to notice that a lot of folks have already started a circle like July 24th or whatever the date is. Oh, this is the first day that they're released. I think we've now conditioned a lot of the hardcore internet wrestling fan base to know, okay, let's go 90 days. And around that time, there's a show here and there's a show there. So there is an expectation and you'll start to see these two or three dozen folks pop up on a variety of these shows. I thought JR was kind of crazy like a fox when his advice to Alistar was sit out longer, like make them wait. Because if he comes back as, you know, the same week that or the same month where two dozen other people reappear somewhere else, it doesn't feel as special. You want them to miss you and not be able to predict your return and all of that. Like, I thought that was good advice from JR. I completely agree that you got to create something and just coming back after 90 days and coming back at, you know, the same character or whatever that is. I agree with JR. Look, either make people wait or create something different. You have a chance now because of social media. You have a chance to create different characters. You have a chance to create a brand. We didn't have any of that. I mean, for one, could you imagine Roddy Piper on Twitter? That can get really interesting. But we didn't have any of that. These guys have all this stuff and not just Twitter ads where we want to call it, TikTok, Instagram, all the different stuff they have. We have an incredible chance to create your platform here and create something of interest. And that's what I would do. If I'm these guys, I would figure out something to do with social media. Create something different. Create demand for yourself. And once you create demand, then go out there and increase that demand by working these different independent shows. You do that, you'll get noticed. There aren't many people that can draw money. And people that draw money are rare. And I don't care where you can draw money. I don't care if it's in some small show in Texas or if it's in Madison Square Garden or if it's in Budokan. Drawing money is hard. There aren't many people that do it. You figure out how to draw money. People are going to line up to give you a contract. That is a power move. Just like how hiring Morgan and Morgan is a power move. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. They've got over a hundred offices nationwide. More than a thousand lawyers and with over $30 billion recovered for over half a million clients, Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation. Check this out. 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All you've got to do is use the code wrestle. That's a u r a frames.com. Use the promo code wrestle and support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. One more time. That's a u r a frames.com and use the promo code wrestle. John, it's one of our favorite segments of the show. We like to call it wrestle worth joining us live from heritage auctions. He's having a great time. Our man Tony is here. Tony, how are you, man? I am great. I am in Toronto for a sports collectible slash hockey memorabilia show. We actually got in a consignment wrestling consignment right off the bat. The show started today and we got a really cool item that came into our possession. Tell us about it. I walk in and somebody has a pair of the yellow Hulk Hogan tights and they were just consigned. Now we do have to do some research on them. They were gifted to in the Montreal area probably about 25-30 years ago. If you look, they show really good wear but also if you look at that manufacturer's tag, that'll probably help us date it. It's going to be hard to photo match these but we're going to do our best. I gave them a pre auction estimate of 30,000. You don't see a lot of Hogan tights. We obviously now you've seen the boots and the belt's going to be coming out there. But kind of a really cool piece of Hogan memorabilia from the Hay Day. There's a very shiny material that they're made out of. It's not that dull cloth. This has kind of got like a thousand cloth look to it. So very exciting. Again, we have to do some research on the company to make sure that they made Hogan's trunks and everything really matches up. But exciting piece that came in to the show already. No doubt the Hogan pandemonium continues. It feels like everybody is obsessed with Hulk Hogan. And just last week, we were excited to share that you got the one of the more famous belts we think and you sent me a picture yesterday. I'm curious, do you have any update as to any of the details around that Hogan world title? Yeah, so we sent it in for photo matching last week. It takes usually 10 days. And it's all dependent on value. Obviously, that's going to be a very, very high value piece. So we hope to get an answer fairly soon on it. And once we do, I'll let everybody know what it came back. Did it photo match? What did it photo match to? Because we're all kind of waiting to see what it matches to. Because I know I think we talked about it before. There are high definition photos of him with this belt, because there's a lot of studio things that were done as far as photographs and that kind of thing. So really interested to see if it matches and what it matches to. Tony, how do you do the photo matching? That's a great question. So a lot of these belts, there'll be a NAML that's chipped off, or there'll be little imperfections. It could be a crease. That's how they did the Hogan boots. Was literally on the creasing pattern. So you're looking for those imperfections. You're looking for something that's a little bit off, a loose thread. Those are the points that you kind of look for on them. And it'll be interesting. I will say that because when I did look at the Hogan belt, it showed nice wear, but it wasn't like overused where it was like falling apart. So there's probably, I'm guessing like a two to three year window where he would have worn that style. And they're going to be looking for a lot of times it's close to photography. They're going to try like YouTube. They'll try some WWE, but you've got to have that. And if you could, because if you make that claim that they're photo match, you can't mess up on that, especially given what the values are now on a lot of these pieces. So what you look for mainly imperfections, threads, stitch patterns on wrestling gear, a lot of times stitch patterns. Now I know on some of the other stuff we've done, some of the macho man stuff, well those were very unique designs and there's tassels here and there and there's sequins. So that's a little bit easier, but on wrestling trunks tough to do on the belt, little easier because they didn't have 10 different belts that they cycled through. They had one belt and then they would have another belt and then, you know, so it's, it'll be interesting. I'm really excited to hear what, when it happens and when it does happen, they will let me know. Tony, who, who does the photo matching? Yeah, there's about four or five different companies. We use one called sports investors. They are, they're one that photo matched the Hogan, WrestleMania boots and they did a lot of our macho man items from the ring gear to the, to the trunks. So that's the company we have used quite a bit, but there's four or five like reputable ones. You just got to be so careful because again, if you know, there's so the values have tilted to such a level that you've got to be careful who you deal with and make sure that yes, we indeed agree that that is the definitive photo match. Well, we're all waiting with a bated breath to see what that belt comes back like. I mean, the reality is we won't know until we get those photo matches back, but this is probably one of the more interesting and exciting finds in the belt collector world at a long, long time. But we've got something pretty special for you today, Tony. And this is from a listener named Edgar arse. And what a great submission this is. He says, I own a gorgeous George ring worn robe. It's gold and sequined. It was owned by Vern Langdon and Slammers wrestling gym. And before he told the item over to me, I was wondering what it would be worth to sell. So there you go. We've got what could be a gorgeous George robe from way back when, and obviously we would still have to authenticate this, but if this were to be proven to be legitimate, what do you think this could be worth? I would say at least 60 to 80,000, 100,000 is not out of the realm of possibility. He was the first guy. He's kind of, I don't know, I don't want to say the Babe Ruth, but he was a pioneer in the industry. Of course, he would throw out the Bobby pins, I believe. And he was just the guy. When I was growing up, my dad would talk about gorgeous George. And he was well ahead of his time. A lot of other wrestlers kind of took his idea and kind of ran with it a little bit. But that is kind of the beginning of wrestling, at least for collectors, I would say 60 to 80,000. But again, there's not much of a stuff out there. Autographs are pretty tough to come by. Something like this. The main thing you would look for is him wearing that style of robe, because back then they would wear it. I'm sure he would have worn that for an extended period of time. And they didn't, again, make extras of that kind of stuff. But that's an amazing piece. And that's one of those, I think he's one of the guys, to the true collector, he transcends generations because he was kind of the first guy to really put wrestling on the map. And his outfits were way over and over and above what anybody else was really doing at that time. That is an amazing, amazing piece. And you just don't see much of his stuff out there at all. Tony, they were Georgia, Georgie pins. Oh, is that what they were? Okay. They were not Bobby pins. They were Georgie pins. Okay. Okay. I always heard the story that he would throw them out to the fans and whatnot. And, you know, he was like the first guy or at least the first guy that I always heard about growing up. And those robes and the nice thing about robes, you can put them on a mannequin, they look amazing. And they really grab your attention. And that's the cool thing about wrestling match worn items. A lot of these things have so much personality to them. And that you're going back to the beginning. They said he sold more TVs than Milton Murrell. What? They said he sold more TVs than Milton Murrell. And George was the first, you know, to be there for the TV era, you know, and they could shoot wrestling because it was just a simple little ring. And you'd only need like a hard camera, a couple more cameras. That's why talk shows were so big because you just needed a couple hard cameras and that stuff. So they had wrestling and talk shows. And that was the big things in TV back then. And George was freaking everywhere. Yeah, that was the first guy that I ever heard of my dad, but talk about gorgeous George. And I'm, you know, and then as you grow up, you kind of look into into him and everything. And yeah, that is a amazing piece. And again, if you look at it, it's in great condition as well. So many times like we had some of the Von Erick jackets, and they wore them so much that there's rips and tears. That looks complete to me. So condition helps on that one. And because it's him, that's, that's, you know, next level. What a find. Maybe you've got something worth like 80 grand in your man cave or your closet. If you're not sure what you've got or what it's worth, we would love to hear from you. Tell us, send us your stories, send us your pictures. It's Wrestleworth at gmail.com. Tony, we've got one more item from a listener. I know that tickets have become all the craze. I've seen that some of these tickets for these more significant sporting events have gone through the roof. Well, Krista Swanger has a submission here. She says, I was going through my old sports cards recently and I came across an absolute gym, a ticket from Bash at the beach 1994. My dad took me when I was about 10 years old and I somehow had the foresight to bring it straight home and put it in a hard sleeve. Fast forward nearly 30 years and it's still in great shape. I'm curious what you think something like this might be worth in today's market and whether it would be worth getting graded through PSA. Now as a reminder, this is the first ever Hulk Hogan versus Ric Flair on pay per view. This is Hulk Hogan's debut in WCW. This is going to be at the time, the biggest event in WCW history. It's all more pay per views and sold more tickets and sold more merch. I mean, this was the high watermark for WCW and what's the point of time considered to be the dream match, but they pulled out all the stops for this. Mr. T was there. Shaq was there. It was the place to be in Orlando and what a fun this is to know that you went to the ticket or you went to the show, you held onto the ticket. It looks to be in great shape. Is it worth getting graded and what do you think this would be worth Tony? 100% worth getting graded. Here's what I'll tell you on tickets. It all comes down obviously to the grade and that is a looks to be a very high grade ticket. The biggest determining factor though is what's the population of that. If that's the only known exemplar, let's say that's a big deal. If it's also the highest graded, that's another factor. That ticket's got great graphics on it. I know it's a ticket master, but it still has great graphics and that great background. That I would say in the current state is probably five to 700, but if it grades high and it's the only known, you'll definitely be into the thousands. It just depends on how many have been graded and that's something I could definitely look up and find out. But I can't imagine there being many of that ticket that have been submitted for grading and I also would be very surprised if there's going to be many better than that. Now obviously the full tickets are what brings the big, big numbers, but this one here, right today, 507, 50 in that range, if it's the highest graded, I would say thousands. You could be into the low thousands because again, it's a beautiful, beautiful ticket and I've seen somewhere their sun faded and you can barely see any of the typewriting on them. That one, whoever had that, they took great care of it and so many of them people would put them in their pockets. They didn't think of, oh, this will be worth money someday and that's a really good ticket. I'm going to look it up after we're done and I can find out the population of that ticket. I can't wait for us to talk about it. In the meantime, take a look in your closet. Take a look on your mantle and your main cave. If you've got something laying around and you're not sure what it's worth, send it to us. We want to see your pictures. We want to see your stories. It's Retzle Worth at gmail.com. Right now you guys are knee deep in a big auction over at Heritage Auctions. Fans can go check it out at h a.com and there's lots of different categories. You can actually drill it down, go through sports and actually select pro wrestling and I'm keeping an eye on things over there and I've even got a few things up myself. Tell us about some of the things that are available now at h a.com. Yeah, I mean, we've got a lot of we have our May catalog sale going on right now. So a lot of variety of course, like Shohei Otani, Michael Jordan, those guys, a lot of wrestling with we've got this great WCW United States heavyweight championship belt. We've got the knee brace. We've got the Hogan's last WrestleMania boot. We've got a we've got the clock from his gym, which is at almost 2000 right now. We've got the ECW sign. So there's a lot of wrestling and there's a lot more coming in right now too. So keep checking the website. A lot of cards, the card, the wrestling card market has never been hotter. You've got the 82 83 wrestling all stars with are the quote unquote rookies of you know, they're the ones of Hogan, Bruce Abroity, some of those guys. So there's a lot of cool stuff out there. I think a lot of people are looking for material now. And we've gotten we've been getting a lot of inquiries on wrestling. And when they come in, you guys are the first to you're the first that I think of. And we want to break it on your on your podcast always. Well, we greatly appreciate you giving us an opportunity to talk about collectibles. It looks like the stone cold knee brace that we previewed a few weeks ago is up to $16,000 right now. The Hulk Hogan WrestleMania boot versus Vince McMahon at WrestleMania 19 and 2003 is currently at 26,000. If you want a 1990 Hulk Hogan boot that's been photo match to a match against the earthquake that's up there at just $10,000 right now. And yeah, that WCW United States title hovering right around 41 grand. Go check it out. It's h a.com. You want to be sure to click on the May auction and then you'll be able to select by sport. You can refine it to wrestling and you'll see 76 different items, which I gotta say feels like more than normal. John, it's cool to see wrestling memorabilia getting some love, isn't it? Yes, it is. It's unbelievable. You know, we had Matt Cardona on yesterday on our on to have more money now talking about the action figures about how hot that market is. Everything's hot. It's unbelievable, but it's so cool to see this wrestling memorabilia take off like this. You know, again, I say it all the time. We never dreamed back in the day that anybody would want to buy this stuff. So nobody kept that. He was wearing the same boots all the time. He just kind of, you know, prepare them a little bit just enough for them to look decent, you know, and now people are paying huge money for these things. Well, I'm excited to see what all of these items go for. You can monitor all of the auctions right now yourself over at h a.com. Can't wait to get an update about the Hogan belt and see what's next. Thanks for making time for us today, Tony. And good luck in Canada. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. And we'll talk to you guys soon. You grow up in the eighties or nineties. Do you and your friends still talking movie quotes like it's your own secret language? They grab a drink and get ready to rewind. I'm talking about about the hilarious podcast. Be kind. Let's rewind. This is your weekly nostalgia fix for all things TV and movies and music and video games. All from the greatest decades ever. Every Friday, the boys crack open a few cold ones and deep dive into the pop culture moments that made us who we are with big laughs, bold opinions and the occasional. Did that really happen? Each week, they're going to hit you with segments like booze of the week. Boring ass facts. Shit stuck in my head and the very popular norm McDonald clip of the week, because nobody told the joke quite like norm did from back to the future to the 40 year old virgin from Tommy boy to South Park in the Simpsons. Be kind. Let's rewind is your time machine back to simpler days. Be sure to subscribe to the YouTube page at be kind. Let's rewind and you can engage with the show on Instagram, Facebook, X and Tik Tok. If you love eighties and nineties nostalgia, this show is for you. Check it out. Be kind. Let's rewind. This ad was paid for by JVO. Hey, so listen, I'm fired up for us to talk about some of these other releases, John. You know, this is an exciting time. I have to admit it started out depressing to me, but when you said, Hey, they're not going to use you anyway, just cut to it. Let's fast forward. Let's get to the good stuff. I'm excited to see what's next for Bo Dallas. And I have to admit, I thought for sure that Bo Dallas was going to be a lifer with WWE. That does not seem to be the case. But in my opinion, he was saddled with not one, not two, but three kind of less than gimmicks. And he did his best to make some chicken salad. And I think people have forgotten. Bo was actually on the first NXT PLE wrestling with Seth Rollins for the NXT world title. This guy can go. He's only 35 right now. And we've never seen the real guy. I hope this is a chance to do that. What do you think is next for Bo Dallas? Yeah, Bo's talented, a very talented and you're getting him getting him out of this character and let him be a wrestler again. You know, he's the second generation wrestler and he's very good at what he does. He's a very smart guy. He's a good guy. And I can't wait to see Bo. You know, sometimes you get saddled by a character and there's not much you can do with it. There's only so much I think he could have done with that character. And now that he's out of it, I think it's a blessing for Bo. I think Bo's going to do incredibly well. I think so too. I think Nikki Cross is going to absolutely clean it up. I know that she's going to be making some appearances and doing conventions. I think the best is still yet to come for her. Unfortunately, the rest of the Wyatt Six are also gone, which includes Rowan. You never know where that fellow may pop up. Dexter Loomis also making that list. An insanely talented artist. I don't know if you've ever seen any of his drawings, but he's tremendous. And how about Joe Gacy? I think he has exceeded all expectations. I'll admit it first. I was like, I don't know. And then you see a little bit of Joe and you're like, okay, this fellow, he can work. But now this, this crew, this group, they're so closely associated with one another, John. They're going to have to define themselves individually here. Or would you think they would try to keep the band together? What would you do? I wouldn't keep the band together. I mean, you might keep it together, but not the same. Obviously you can't use the same character. I'm sure it's trademark and all that stuff and you can't do it. I don't think you want to. I think it very limited them very much about what they could do. These are all very talented people and they got a chance now to go out there and redefine themselves. And I think that's what they should do. Now, should they be together? They're probably friends. And so if they want to be, they want to form a tag team. They want to form a coalition. Absolutely. I mean, that's what you like to do. That's what you enjoy. You joy to be on the road with these fellow people, these fellow wrestlers. Then go ahead and do this. But I think they need to get out. Obviously they're going to get out of these characters. I think it's very good for them. You got a chance now to show that Mickey Cross is incredibly talented. And Eric Rowan is a big dude. You can't code size. And I've always liked Dr. Loomis. I've got to work with him. He's a smart guy. I think they have a huge upside for these guys. Well, I have no doubt that they're all going to do well. One of the names I wanted to ask you about though, is a guy that I thought WWE was going to make a superstar a decade ago. I'm talking about the former Ooha Nation. We knew him in WWE as Apollo Crews. This is the guy who I feel like we've still not seen the best. I think, you know, when they say the best is yet to come, they might be talking about Apollo Crews. What would you like to see next for Apollo? Yeah, I don't understand this. I like Apollo very much. He's a good young guy. And he's very talented. He's very athletic. He's a very smart guy. And I don't understand why the character didn't get over better. I had no idea why. You know, sometimes they just don't. And again, like we talked about before, I was there as Justin Hall Bradshaw. That character was never going to get over. I thought it was. I thought it was going to be World Champion. And I'm so glad that it got out of it. I thought the APA Bradshaw was going to be World Champion. That didn't work out either. You know, sometimes you got to go through several iterations. And I think it may be good for Apollo to get out there and try something different because I think the world of Apollo, I think he's a good human being. I think he's a really talented wrestler. I think he's a very smart guy. And I think he's going to do well. You just got to figure out what works. All these guys, you got to figure out what works. You know what doesn't work because you got released. No big deal. We all go through that. Or at least most of us do. I certainly did. And now you just got to figure it out. I got my fingers crossed for all these guys. I hope they all find a great landing spot. I tend to think that, and I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I haven't talked to anybody there. It's just a gut feeling. It feels like Tony Khan could curry a lot of favor with the fan base by signing Mo Dallas. We'll see. It does feel like if I'm Apollo Cruz, I may have opportunities with Tony Khan or maybe in Japan. And I think your point about trying a new character and maybe trying to work Japan like your plan was back in 97 may really work for a guy like Alice Star Black. But what would you recommend for someone like the Motor City machine guns? Chris Saban and Alex Shelley have been at the top of their game for over 20 years. They've been good that long. And they've both had an incredible run as tag teams and individually, whether it was in Ring of Honor or certainly TNA. But it does feel like at this point, they're probably closer to the end of their career than the beginning. I for one hope they get whatever sort of farewell tour and whatever they want left of their in ring endeavors. I hope it happens exactly the way they want it to. But am I wrong in thinking these guys may be perfect contributors behind the scenes in the vein of Bobby Roode or Jamie Noble? I mean, these two guys seem to be well respected by their peers, by the office. Like, you never hear anything bad about Shelley or Saban. They could be perfect behind the scenes if and when they're ready for that, right? Yeah, absolutely. They've worked a million different places and they seem to be very, really liked. I don't know them. That certainly not well. I'm not sure if I've ever met them or not. I've worked with them in Mexico, but I've been working remote. So I haven't been down there with them. But they've had some great matches down there. Really good matches. And anybody who can put that together with a variety of people, it's hard to do. You know, you go to Japan and work a different style. You come to Mexico, you work a lucha style. You go to the United States and you work a different style. They've been able, they've been very successful every single place they've been. That tells me they're very smart guys and they can put matches together very well. So I agree with you. I think they might be terrific agents. I think the farewell tour isn't that bad. Have them go all over the place. I mean, you know, people need people in independence. They need people that can draw money. I think these guys can probably draw money. You announce these guys are going to be there. They're going to have a heck of a match. And, you know, these independence that are put in a thousand, 1500 people in some of these little arenas. Man, these guys would light these arenas on fire. And I think that they can may have a good several year run out of this. And if they want to be agents, I think there's a good possibility that they could be. And I think there's a good possibility that they should be. Well, I do want to ask you about bully raise advice. He got the internet lit up when he was discussing some of these recent roster cuts. He was asked, what advice would you give? He said something like, I give them no advice. They're gone. Maybe you should have taken it more seriously. Maybe you shouldn't have put your feet up on the table. Maybe you should have shook hands. Maybe you should have been more polite. Maybe you should have busted your ass a little more. Maybe you should have cut a better promo. You've got five minutes. You've got five minutes. Get over or get out. The bully's taken a lot of heat for these comments, John. And I don't think it's because I wonder, is it because they don't like the message or they don't like the messenger? What do you think? The bully's message? I think a lot of people like to take shots at bully. I call these calling Bubba. I've never called him bully. I think they like to take shots at Bubba. Bubba's right. It didn't work. Look, that's okay. It's okay that it didn't work. None of us. I say very few. I've mentioned you got Kurt Angle. You got Lex Luger. You got Goldberg. You got a few guys that came in and went straight to the top and started on top and stayed there. Most of us, like 99% of us, had to figure out different characters that worked. These guys, whatever it happened, didn't work. And so I think Bubba's comments are right. Figure out what you need to get over and whatever that is, do it. You got five minutes to get over. It didn't work the first time. Figure out what it is when you get that chance again. And look, I don't have any issue with Bubba's comments. I think they're right. And do people want to take shots at Bubba? Yeah, people enjoy taking shots at Bubba. I love Bubba and I think he's fine. Let's talk a little bit about some positive news. We've hit on the negative long enough. There were some NXT call-ups after WrestleMania. These are folks who've been in developmental and now they're moving to the main roster. We saw a lot of big names included here. Ricky Saints has been on a tier in NXT. We certainly saw him on another channel before. Blake Monroe, sort of the same story, arguably the story of the year with Tony Storm under a different name. She said fun in NXT, but now she's headed to the main roster. Fatal influence make quite an impact this week on Monday Night Raw. One of yours that you've seen up close and personal in TNA, Joe Hendrick. He was a star internationally. He took TNA by storm. He had some pop culture moments. And now he's ready for Raw or SmackDown. Ethan Page, another guy, man had a phenomenal run on the Indies, made his mark in TNA and AEW and now NXT. But it's time for a move up to either Raw or SmackDown and Sal Ruka. So this is one of the better groups I think we've seen in a while as far as a call-up group. I mean, each one of these acts, I feel like have a really, really good shot of having meaningful spots on the television program every week. Does anybody stand out to you on this list? Yeah, a bunch standing out to me on this list. I love Ethan Page. I've watched him work down in Mexico up close. Man, what a good heel he is. He is a good character. I really enjoy watching him. I think you talk about talent. But Ricky Saints to me also, man. This is a good looking guy who understands how to be a character and is a good worker. I mean, those two guys to me are just, I'm surprised that hadn't been called up a lot quicker. And so Ruka to me, you talk about talent. Good grief. Does she have talent? I mean, she has so much athletic ability and she has an incredible look about her that works. It's just sometimes looks just work. And the same thing with Ricky Saints. I think those three to me, and I like all of them. Joe Henry has done incredibly well everywhere he's been. And he's been able to get over with the fans everywhere he's been. I think these are terrific call-ups. But those three to me, I really, so Ruka to me is so freaking talented. I enjoy watching her work, but Ricky Saints is the same. And Ethan Page, those guys are just, man, you talk about really talented young people. And that's that whole list that you've got right there. Did you see how Ruka got injured with the table spot? Did you happen to catch that? What did you think? Yeah, yeah, just an enforcement not timing placement of the tables. I mean, that she was lucky. I mean, that first table breaks, that's probably two tables like that, man. I don't ever want to go through two tables like that. The chance of hitting one and then the other, you know, injuring you is very significant. I mean, she could have got an unbelievable concussion with that table spot. She's very lucky. Well, I think we would all be so lucky to have somebody who takes care of their dogs the way we do. Thanks to better wild. I got to tell you, I have really zeroed in on this product because I have seen the difference. My dog, Ginger, just turned 11 earlier this month and I saw her slow down. We brought a new puppy into our life a few months ago and I thought, Hey, maybe this will keep her young. Well, around that same time, we started doling out better wild allergy relief soft shoes for our dogs. They think of them as T R E A T's. I can't say that word of they'll all have a connection fit and come in here. They love the way it tastes, but I love the way it makes Ginger feel. My mom recently visited with me and she could not believe the difference in Ginger. She said, this is the happiest dog I've ever seen. She's been around Ginger for over a decade, but this is the first time she said it. What's the difference? Better wild. If your dog tends to itch their ears or scratch their ears or they're licking their paws or they're shaking their head, these are not normal dog behaviors. 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So instead of just covering things up, why not actually support your dog at the source? Better Wild is committed to helping your dogs with clinically proven veterinary and approved solutions you can feel great about. And right now, Better Wild is offering our listeners up to 40% off your order at better wild.com slash wrestle. That's better wild.com slash wrestle from up to 40% off your order better wild.com slash wrestle. John earlier today is we're recording. We got the big news that somehow some way former WWE superstar current AEW talent, Chris Jericho is now the main villain in the new hit show Dexter resurrection. They just finished season one last year. The wife and I absolutely loved it. And now they're coming back in season two and we're hearing that a current active wrestler is the lead villain in the dog on show. Dexter is a big time show. We've also seen Jericho on tracker on CBS. He's going to play the main villain there. We've seen him on Margot has money problems on Apple TV. I don't think a lot of people necessarily had this on their bingo card. He is a Renaissance man. We know he could, you know, do the whole music thing and tour and sell albums and be a big time musician, but an actor too. I didn't see this coming. What do you make of this news? I think it's awesome. He is a real hustler. I mean that in a very good way. You know, he's done all kinds of stuff from the rock and roll stuff he's done, from the cruises that he's done, from independent shows he's done. Chris is a moneymaker man. God bless him. You know, him and our boy cash flow down in OVW, you know, appearing on Tulsa King. Good for these guys, man. This is just wonderful. We had Tulsa King on our podcast meeting Gerald Frisco and he's just a good dude. You know, Chris is too. You love, you love to see stuff like this. And you wonder why you haven't seen more of it. You know, wrestlers are good. They're good in front of cameras. They're obviously, you don't have to have a stunt double at least, probably not for any of their stunts, but you're surprised you haven't seen more of this, but congratulations to Chris. Yeah. Big time news for Chris Jericho. I can't wait to see Dexter. My wife and I just watched that not too long ago. And when I told her today by text, she couldn't believe it. We're all excited. Hey, everybody seems to be excited about this new Hulk Hogan documentary too. It came out last week and in just the first few days, the four part documentary on Netflix got off to quite a good start over 3 million views over, or maybe viewers and over 12.3 million hours viewed. This is all from the Netflix data. It ranked number five for the week on Netflix. And remember, it came out on a Wednesday and these numbers come out on a Sunday. So in a half a week, it was already number five. It's also number five in the U S. It's right behind WrestleMania, which at that point would have had a week, of course. And of course, an episode of Monday Night Raw. So wrestling fans and non wrestling fans are turning up and checking this out. I know that my parents had a chance to see it and they absolutely loved it. I know there's been some criticism online about hardcore wrestling fans who wanted things to be a little more granular. I don't know. It feels like you have to make something for the masses and you need WWE's cooperation to show their footage and you'd like to have the family participate. So you can see some of the home videos. So I think if you understand the context of trying to do a balancing act here that makes everybody happy, I thought it was terrific. John, have you had a chance to see it? What'd you think? I haven't no, but I'd love to. I like I love hope. I love hope. I think hope was always so nice to me. I got the Russell hook one time in Philadelphia and you know, worked with a lot of different ways, different promos, different videos and stuff. He just always was fantastic to me. Didn't have to beat and he always was. I remember I brought a bunch of kids from Bermuda, you know, a bunch of kids who had never been off Island before and they get NXT was filming something and Hogan was there and I brought him in. I said, listen guys, don't make any noise. Probably won't be able to meet anybody. Hogan had a really bad back of the time. It's one of the times when he's having surgeries. Hogan got up and limped over there and met every one of those kids. It was just, it was just a remarkable thing. You know, it's just, I know there's some negative people out there about Hulk. I'm not one of them. Hulk was always treated me well and always been great to everybody that I know. Well, I think you're going to dig it. I can't wait for you to check it out. I also want to recommend that anybody listening to this, go check out my review with Eric Bischoff. We break down episode one, two, three and four. We talk about it. We took your questions live and we welcome to very special guests, the real life Nick Malaya. Now, I guess the spoke person for the Hulk Hogan estate, Nick Hogan. We knew him once upon a time in wrestling. He joins us. It's the first time the masses have heard from him, especially in the confines of a wrestling conversation in a long time. And I think you're going to enjoy it. Go out of your way to check it out. It's on Eric's channel over at 83weeks.com. I do want to talk a little bit about some other news and notes, but before we do, I would love to show you this chart and I'll admit this was posted and, man, I just looked at this chart with Eric and I forgot to give credit here, but somebody on Twitter and we will try to link them and remember them in the notes. They posted what the housing or what the houses looked like with and without Hulk Hogan. And I thought this was fascinating because there's been this big discussion in debate recently about where is Hulk Hogan's place in wrestling all time. And respectfully, when you ask a historian like Dave Meltzer, he's going to talk about from the beginning of wrestling. But I know that you too have studied the history and origins of way back when in wrestling and you've told me more about Jim Lundos than maybe anybody else, but I would be willing to bet that most of our listeners not real familiar with Jim Lundos, but all of us grew up with Hulk Hogan. And we've all heard that talent wanted to be on the card where Hulk Hogan was. So I thought, you know what, let's take a look and let's just see how different things were with and without the Hulkster when we take a look at, say, a random month. We'll look at November of 1984. And you'll see here in November of 94, John, on shows without Hulk Hogan, there were 16 of those, the attendance was 5,500. That was the average. Now, what was it that same month on shows with Hogan? 11,400. Now let's take a look at 85. So this would have been several months after the very first WrestleMania. November of 85 shows 6,400 versus 14,100. Take a look at 86 in November. 3,200 is your average attendance without Hulk Hogan. 12,100 is your attendance with Hulk Hogan. Take a look at 1987 in the shadows of WrestleMania three, your average attendance without Hulk Hogan, 4,600 in November of 87. 10,700 though with Hogan. That trend continues in a big way in 1988. And remember, this is the year where they started to have the mega powers explode. Savage became the champion at WrestleMania in March of 88. But in November of 88, there were 12 shows without the Hulkster and they averaged 4,400 tickets per show. But when Hogan was on the card, it was 12,300. In 89, a real anomaly. 4,800 without Hogan, 3,300 with Hogan. And then in 1990, this would be in the shadows of the ultimate warrior uncrowning Hulk Hogan as the top dog. In November, the warrior was averaging 4,500 without Hogan. Hogan brought in an average of 7,100. The numbers tell the tale here, at least in this era of the WWF. Now, this doesn't encompass all of wrestling. I get that. But when you look at what most people would consider the peak, the golden era of Hulkamania, these are probably those years. And what a compelling story these numbers make. What do you make of this? Your numbers, God, John. Yeah, I was looking at the numbers, you know, for the years, you know, in Hogan almost doubles in all those years you mentioned on average, Hogan almost doubled. I think Hogan, you could argue Hogan, the most influential person in wrestling history. You know, take away, say Vince as a promoter, as a wrestler. You know, you got Lando's, obviously. You got Bruno San Martino. Got Stone Cold, who helped bring wrestling back. But if not for Hogan, I mean, the WrestleMania era still happens. And it may work, but it's going to take a lot longer. It's kind of like Trish and Lita. You know, when they had the match on Monday Night Raw, if that was not a great match, you would have set the women's movement back. And it would still have happened. It might have just been five or 10 years. But because it was such a great match, because they delivered so well, because they're such fantastic competitors, you had the women's movement take off from that point forward. Same with Hogan, back in the WrestleMania era. If Hogan's not there, he's not on the cover of Sports Illustrated. He's not doing Rocky III, by the way. Everybody out there bashing me for saying Rocky IV. Rocky III, by the way. I mean, I think you don't have the WrestleMania era that comes out and destroys all the rest of the territories like it did. And WrestleMania take off like it did. I think Hogan, I mean, you can make the argument. And I don't think there's any way to dispute that, that he's the most influential wrestler of all time. Yeah, I think he's definitely on the list. And I understand that there's an argument for different historians, but for me in my life, Hogan's number one, we want to know from you guys. Let us know in the comments, where do you think Hulk Hogan belongs? When I asked the same question to JR, he said, top five. I think top five is hard to argue with. Some would make the argument though. And that's why we're here. Let us know what you think in the comments below. Is Hogan top five? Is he number one? And if he's top five, or if he's not, who's above him? Let us know in the comments below. Hey, John, let's talk a little bit about WrestleMania. You know, this got a big buzz this week because I guess there was like a TKO town hall that Nick Connell and allegedly once in front of time, they would give, you know, the employees an opportunity to come on the mic and ask questions. And I guess nobody wanted to do that. So now they're able to submit questions anonymously. And there was a question about whether or not WrestleMania will be returning to the same town again. Nick Conn made it clear that was not going to be in the cards. And then they of course discussed whether or not they would be going to Saudi. And we covered this last week. Not only are they doing WrestleMania and Saudi next year, they're doing night of champions less than two months from now in Saudi. But Nick made it clear they're doing that if they find out that it is safe for everyone to go. So of course they're going to be measured with this. They're not going to fly willy nilly into the eye of a storm. But WrestleMania 44 has become a talking point. People know that this year was in Vegas. They know next year is in Saudi Arabia. But what about the year after that? And Nick Conn addressed it in the town hall. He said, wait until you hear the announcement on where we're going to be for WrestleMania in 2028. Now we found out just yesterday from Brian Alvarez over at wrestlingobserver.com that Nashville had already put in a bid for $3.5 million. But that I think was for 2028. Maybe it's 2027. No, I'm sorry. That was for 2028. Correct. WrestleMania 44. 3.5 million. Probably some tax benefits on top of that. Another speculation. Hey, New Orleans feels like they're owed one. Certainly it's been a great town to host WrestleMania. I think there's an expectation that Indianapolis may be in line to get one. Some people may not have been surprised to hear that they were going back to Saudi. But then Nick said he's probably not going to go back to the same place. So that naturally brought about the London rumors. Do you think that we'll see a WrestleMania in 2028 abroad? Like could it work in Brazil? Could it work in London? Somewhere else? Where would be an international spot to park WrestleMania? Or do you think it'll be back States side? I don't know. I'm interested. He really teased where they're going to be for that WrestleMania. So I think it's something that, and no offense to Nashville, I love Nashville. I think it's something bigger than Nashville. I think it's an overseas. It seems like an overseas. And if it is, I think you gotta look at the big cities. I think you gotta look at London. You gotta look at Tokyo. And you gotta look at something like Sydney. I think would be the ones to me that would be, you know, I don't know, man, but it might be something like Mumbai. I mean, he might put 100, I don't know. I don't want the cricket arenas hold in Mumbai or Delhi, but he can put 100,000 people in one of those arenas. There's some real opportunities out there. I would love to be a fly on the wall and see who all is trying to get WrestleMania for that year. You know, you bring up a good point about Japan. I think that would be a home run, but the only logical place they could do it is the Tokyo Dome, right? That's the biggest stadium there, right? Yes. The only place I think they could do it. You don't want to do it in Budakon. I think it's big enough. You want to do it and you want to do it. You want to match, you know, the new Japan shows and the Tokyo Dome or the great shows in the Tokyo Dome. And so yeah, the only place they would do it would be the Tokyo Dome. I don't think they'd do it anywhere else. You know what? I just looked, I guess Nissan Stadium can hold 72,327. I don't know. Do you think they could sell that many tickets? Yes, 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. Look, I think there was a travel fatigue in Vegas. I was out there for five or six days. I talked to a lot of fans. I think that was the destination. You know, I'm not trying to make excuses for WWE, but I mean, it is expensive in Vegas. I mean, the food is expensive. It's unbelievable. The difference in Vegas now that it was, say, 20 years ago when they made most of their money off gambling. I think they're making a lot of their money off food and beverage, which they seem like they're, it was outrageous how expensive it was. I think that's a lot of the problem they had with Vegas. You go overseas. I mean, you get something like Sydney or you get something like London or Berlin, Mumbai, I think that they're going to sell out. Whatever you put this in, they're going to sell it out. Man, I'm excited to see where WrestleMania is going to be. I tend to agree with you and think that, hey, they're going to go international just based on the T's. But if that's the case. Look at what the NFL is doing. I mean, they just, they just, they're going to have some games in all straight this next year. They've already sold out their tickets an hour, which tells you they've priced their tickets wrong, by the way. But they sold them out in something like an hour. The demand for the sports, live sports, especially big events like the NFL, like WWE, is massive overseas. They're going to sell out whatever they put this in. I'd love to see them in some place, some crazy place like Sydney or Mumbai and see WrestleMania in a complete different hemisphere that it's used to being in. Yeah, it would be cool. Let us know in the comments below where you think WrestleMania could be fine in 2028. I have to say, if and when that stadium is finished and complete and ready in Nashville, it is a no brainer to eventually have a WrestleMania in that 100% Nashville is such an incredible city. It is a unbelievably tourist city. That music row. I mean, it's just fantastic. Nashville is awesome. And they're very business friendly in Nashville. I think Nashville gets it. I just don't know if they get it this time because Nikon is certainly teasing it like almost like it's this incredible overseas venture, which has never happened before. It just feels that way. I don't, you know, that's just maybe me putting my feelings into what his thoughts are, but which is a pretty dangerous thing to do. But that's what it feels like. Man, it feels like a good, a feel good moment for the Steiner brothers. I don't know if you saw this. We know what Rick Steiner's been doing. He's been raising a hellraiser named Braun Breaker who's tearing a new one inside the WWE right now. But meanwhile, the big bad booty daddy son, Brock Rex Steiner just signed to the Tennessee Titans. Just like his cousin before him, Braun signed with the Ravens for a cup of coffee. Brock is now a Tennessee Titan. He played ball right off the street for me and Jacksonville and Jacksonville State, not Jacksonville, Florida, Jacksonville, Alabama. And there he is. Brock Rex Steiner, the son of the legend with the big gold belt and the chainmail headdress and the sunglasses. And listen, I hope he has the absolute best NFL career possible. I hope he exceeds all of his own expectations and all of his football dreams come true. So when I see this photo, John, the wrestling fan in me can't help but get excited about, well, I guess we'll call them the Steiner cousins. What do you think? Yes, I was talking to Scott about his boy here and he's told me he ran a 4-4 something 40. That is incredible. I mean, that's just unheard of. I mean, you talk about genetic freak. He got all the genetic freak from his daddy. It's unreal the talent that that young man has. And I hope he may have, if he was playing there to fail, I hope he does it 10, 12 years. I hope he's all pro every single year. But if something happens, wrestling is going to hopefully come calling because it'd be great to have some more Steiners in wrestling. I mean, people don't realize, comrade, when the Steiners were rolling back in the early 90s, they were a different level than every other tag team on the planet. Man, there's an old match with Butch and Ron against the Steiners. That's as physical a match. Look that thing up. And if you guys out there, we want to look up a match, look up the Steiners versus Doom. You talk about physical, man. It is just freaking awesome. It is one of the best matches I've ever seen. But those Steiners did that with everybody. I mean, it was just, they've a match with Brett Noland that was just fantastic. The Steiners were just different level, man. It's just, I don't know if people realize how good they were. Speaking of good, here's some feel good news. The son of Sid Vicious. We know him as Gunner, Udy. He just announced that he made an offer to buy the Mid-South Coliseum. John, you want to? Yeah, that's surprising to me. I'm sorry, come on. I mean, cut you off. No, that's okay. I just thought it was really, really cool that he's got an idea to own this building. He wants to bring wrestling back to the building. He says it's not just a building in Memphis. It's sacred ground. Listen, this feels like a big undertaking. I hope he's successful in it. I know a lot of people absolutely love that building and I love the idea that maybe a wrestler son could be involved as a part of the ownership group. This is a big idea. What do you think? It's a huge idea. And I don't know. I mean, you talk about something out of left field, at least for me, because I didn't expect something like this. Obviously, he's been looking into it and planning it for some time. Good for him. I love this. And I love that he's, you know, Sid was so big in the Memphis area. Sid was big everywhere. The guy, you talk about Aura and Charisma, Sid was overloaded with that. It's just unbelievable that when you see the presence of Sid Vicious, Sid Justice or whatever people called him. But this is exciting stuff. I hope he gets it and I love to see what he's going to do with it. Well, I love to see what you could do with getting mom, maybe the best Mother's Day gift ever. I'm talking, of course, about Aura frames. You know, this has been a real game changer. If you've got a long distance loved one, especially for mom or grandma, if you're long distance and you can't be as close as you want to be, man, there's nothing she wants more than to feel like she's involved in your life. And I think that you can make her feel included, make her feel special and capture some magic and give her a gift she'll never forget with Aura frames. I've used this on Mother-in-law. I hate the way I phrase that, but man, she hugs my neck every time she sees me. And why does she do that? Well, because she continues to stay up to date on what's going on in her grandkids life. Let me explain what's going on here, guys. You get free unlimited storage. So you can add as many photos and videos as you want to this frame. You can even preload your photos before it even ships. But even better than that, you can keep adding from anywhere at any time. You can also personalize this gift where you add a message before it arrives. It all comes in a beautiful gift box. It's included. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box. There's no price tag in the box, by the way. But now you'll be able to share your videos and your photos effortlessly. All you've got to do is download the free Aura app or check this out. You can actually text photos straight from your phone. They make it so easy to do, and bam, it goes right to the frame. This is a top rated app too. It's reached number one on the app store on Christmas Day 2025. And you know why that is because moms everywhere got this for Christmas and loved it. If your mom doesn't have an Aura frame, she needs one. She's going to be glad she got one. And you're going to be glad you gave her one. Make Mother's Day special with Aura Frames. It's named number one by Wirecutter. You can save on the gifts that moms love by visiting AuraFrames.com. For a limited time, our listeners can get $25 off their best-selling Carver Matte Frame. All you've got to do is use the code RESTL. That's A-U-R-A, Frames.com. Use the promo code RESTL and support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. One more time. That's A-U-R-A, Frames.com. And use the promo code RESTL. John, let's just talk a little bit about some of the controversy this week about AI. I don't know if you saw this, but there was a revelation in this town hall that WWE corporate, specifically Nikon, Triple H, I'm sure others, have used AI. And a lot of people are immediately jumping to, oh, they're using AI to write creative. I don't think that's exactly the case. I know that people get up in arms and they get defensive about AI. But here's the cold hard fact. A lot of businesses are using AI, not necessarily to eliminate jobs, but to try to pick up some more efficiencies. I don't think AI is the evil that maybe some people make it out to be, but I also know it's kind of just the way of the world. I know you've got an opinion on this, John. Where are you at on AI and specifically AI and wrestling? Oh, good Lord. This is ridiculous. It's like I use Google. How dare you? Good grief. It's just another search tool. It's another tool for people. AI is part of our world. And it's going to be a bigger part of the world going forward. Look, for the first time in our history, you have computers that are solving problems that they have never seen before. That is groundbreaking. This is one of the most monumental technology changes that we'll ever seen in the history of our world that we're seeing right now. And you're going to see AI and AI do more and more and more. It's just normal what they're doing. I mean, when people say this, people jump on it and take it out of context and go, oh, they're booking things with AI. No, they're not. They're using AI as a tool. That's what most people do. Most people who are out there in business now use AI as a tool. And that's exactly what WWE is doing. And that's what they should be doing. Well, something you should be doing is hitting that subscribe button and telling a friend about something to wrestle.com. John, we always, or I guess for the past several weeks, we've been closing with a little bit we like to call curtain jerkers. And today we've got a little bonus action. Friend of the show, Super Dave, Pawnwater Dave, no matter what you call him, it's pretty damn entertaining. Take a look at curtain jerkers. Hey, what's up, guys? I'm Steve Ozer, marketing manager for the Mattel WWE action figure line. We've done tons of amazing JBL and Justin Hawks Bradshaw action figures, including the recent legends, Justin Hawks Bradshaw, which was super sick. And JBL, of course, most recently in our ruthless aggression line, JBL and Justin Hawks Bradshaw and APA Bradshaw were so important throughout his WWE run and career. It was really important to get him into the line. So we found the right moment to do so in a responsible way. The value of these figures kind of goes up and down when they're retail full price, of course. And then when we come to these conventions, maybe less than retail, but it's all good. We want to make sure he's represented. I did not say that, but you know, speak for yourself when you come to these shows. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Casio. The man to my right is the man, the myth, the legend, the one and only John Bradshaw, life field JBL. Casio believes it's his show. So I'm who's in general. I'm JBL. Welcome to curtain juggers. I'm here with the cassette kid. Casio. Casio. Casio. Episode. First of all, we need to set the table. We're broadcasting in front of a live audience. Let's hear it for the cassette kid. We're here at the one FW arena right here in McDonough, Georgia. I know that's one of your favorite towns you've been in that starts with the MC and that's the silliest thing I've ever heard. McDonough, Georgia, former home of D South wrestling, but now we're here at one FW. We're in the ring. We're having a good time. We're here at Eric Bischoff's power plant weekend. Eric Bischoff, yeah. Let's hear it for the cassette kid. Casio. John, I know part of your revenue stream is your merchandise. That's the big thing. I mean, you've got your own shirt on. That's right. A Rive clothes on somebody leave. Rive clothes somebody leave, which you did do to me. And I'm wearing Vince McMahon's jacket. What do you mean? This is Vince's jacket. Is it really? Yes, it is. When we did the weather scene when the Connecticut was shut down and put me on top of Titan Towers and I got up there freezing, Vince handed me a jacket. I didn't realize he took the jacket off his own back and gave me the jacket. And when we got done, he goes, just keep it. So he literally Vince gave me his jacket. This is literally Vince McMahon's jacket. Hey, that's pretty baller right there, right? He gave me the jacket off his back. We do know from a previous episodes, if he would have gave you his pants, they wouldn't have fit because he had wide hips. That's what Eric Bischoff claims. That's what Eric Bischoff claims. Seems like there's a little bit of animosity there. I don't know why they don't like each other. I don't know why they don't like each other. Just trying to put each other out of business. I don't know why. We're going to watch on what we found about your merchandise. I'm glad we see it. Let's roll that beautiful bean priceless stuff. This has to be the biggest army of wrestlers I have ever seen at a thrift store. And when I say there is a lot, there is a lot on the show. It wanted $5 a piece on them. I believe they were all Bradshaw. It's a pretty good price, but I left them all behind. There's 100 figures of Bradshaw for $5 a piece and nobody's bought them. How do you feel about that, John? That's not real. That's AI. That's fake news. No, that's viral on social media. How do you feel about that? Do you remember that figure? The Bradshaw figure? How many figures have you had? About 100 according to that. And they're all at that store, wherever it is. You know, first figure I ever saw, I go to Walmart and they have a figure of me there and I thought, oh my God, I got to buy my figure. I went by because they didn't tell me it was coming out. So I go up to the counter and I thought I can't buy my own, pick my own figure. So I went back and I hid them and I called my mom who lived in the same town. I said, go buy all my figures. Apparently that's the only ones I've ever sold. Now they're for $5 a piece. Guys, if we had them right now, you ain't got to keep bringing up this $5. You know, good piece of shit. Look at me right now. Iran is number one. You know the background of the shit from the Terran Iran Olympic class. A U class upon American game. You wrestled with me. You wrestled with your master. Number one Iran number one Russia number one. Yes, a cameraman. Sue me. Welcome back to Curtin Juggers. I'm joined as always by the Cassette and the man after thousands and thousands and thousands of matches, the man who retired, Conrad's father-in-law. Let's make it to your boy, Rick Flair, Podwater Dave. Podwater, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. You feel bad that you retired the nature boy. You counted him out. One, two, three. You're the reason nature boy is no longer in the business. But he won. So no, I don't feel bad for Jeff because Flair's shoulders were down too. Oh, now he's getting technical. He didn't that night, John. No, I don't feel bad. I'm a huge fan of the nature boy and I would have felt bad if he'd have lost. How many matches do you think you breathed? In 20 years, probably 500. Whoa. Is that more matches than you had? It's not, no. Was Flair's last match your last match? No, no, no. I worked pretty regular on the Indies hub. I worked for Bayou Independent Wrestling. I worked for SWA. I worked for Lost Guard. Just anybody who'll book me, I'm there. How'd you get the name Podwater? Conrad and Tony Shavani. During the day, I sell potato chips and Conrad makes me one time. What's your number one seller? By the single or? Yeah. I like single potato chips. Like here's potato chips. Like he on the street corner being like, hey, you all got, you want some Cheetos? Well, not like bad. But like Skinners, one of Skinners favorite people, Steve Kern, you sold Alligator too, right? I did. When I, and you were the number one, what do you mean? Sold Alligator? He was the number one Alligator salesman in all of Mississippi. I was. My truck. What? Where the hell have you been? How did you know that? Because I'm up on Pondwater Day. I'm a big fan. I'm a Wikipedia. I follow his podcast. What if the key to living better isn't about making life easier? From New York Times bestselling author and journalist, Michael Easter, 2% is a twice weekly podcast exploring the science of living better by doing things the hard way. From mental toughness to movement, ancient wisdom to cutting edge science, 2% blends science, storytelling and practical advice to help you live a bolder, better and more meaningful life. One uncomfortable idea at a time. Building on insights from his number one sub stack and acclaimed books, Michael balances rigorous evidence with a healthy dose of skepticism to cut through the noise of the modern wellness industry. 2% isn't a show for biohacking perfectionists, whether Easter's interviewing elite explorers and Harvard biologists are deconstructing the truth about longevity and metabolic health. This show is a grounded offering humorous guide for real people looking to build resilience and agency in an increasingly comfortable world. In each episode, you'll discover why the antidote to modern malaise is often found in the challenges we've been taught to avoid. Listen to 2% wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every Tuesday and Thursday. Did you sold alligators? The heads, you know, the heads and the teeth and the back scratchers with their claws and I mean when you run a truck stop you sell all kinds of stuff. Why is that so funny? The Mews and Entrepreneur. So you sold all the, anybody, anybody have an alligator head? Does anybody have an alligator claw back scratcher? All right, so you sold those? I did. Not door to door, like in a location? No, no, we just put them by the checkout stand. Alligator products are us? Yes. Tell Mr. Nasty here about how far ahead of a second police guy you were. A good $15,000 ahead of him. $15,000 he was ahead of the second police guy. Wait, wait, how many, how many did you sell? What was your figure? This was like a year in award? Yes. $100,000? At least, at least. So if he had a hundred, the next guy was 85? So you were, you were kicking ass. Well, these were high in items. I mean, they didn't have a little price tag on them. Yeah, man, some alligator foot back scratcher, guys. Or Ivy League Alligator. You could buy a new shirt with that. So you were from alligator heads and back scratchers to Fritos? Just flaming hot Cheetos. I'm flaming hot Cheetos and Conrad's told Tony Shavani that because I'm flaming hot Cheetos and drink palm water, I wouldn't get COVID and that's where it was born. You wouldn't get COVID? That's what he told Tony. And you have a pond on your property, Mississippi? Yes. Did you get COVID? No, twice. So Conrad is a liar. He exaggerates a little bit. Paul, you saw JBL in the Sporting Tour. I did. What are some of your other favorite wrestlers? Current? No, David Von Eric, David Von Erich, Rosa Brody, Terry Gordy, Bam Bam. Yes. That's where I got my clothes on. What about classics? Von Erich? Classic. You just mentioned David Von Erich. Von Erich, Rosa Brody. Right. Were you a hoagin guy? No. You're in the south? Were you a dusty guy? Of course. But first, but then I was a huge Ric Flair fan. But you retired him? I did. Junkyard dog? I like the dog. Cocoa B Ware? No, I didn't like Cocoa. You didn't like Cocoa? Well, that was quick. No, no. Cocoa said something really out of pocket to my sister one time when they were going out the side door when he was with the TYTs and I'm still about half hot over there. How old were you? Wait, yeah. 1985, 86. And you're still hot at Cocoa? Well, that's my sister. She's still your sister. I completely agree with you here. I'm on your side. So 85, where are you? At the Sportatorium? In Dallas or in Florida? Dallas. Dallas. The real Sportatorium. Yes. And Cocoa? When you were at the side door over there in that little section, when the heat got out of control, they took him out the side door. They take him out the side door. That's right. And I always said in that section, if I settle section D row five, when they started throwing beer, there was nobody behind me. I could stand up against the wall. That's a pro move right there. I mean, I've been going for a few years. All right. And anyway, they were coming. Fan hit Killer Tim Brooks across the face with a whiskey bottle by that door one time. Okay. And that was a dangerous fall. What do you mean you don't doubt it? I'm not lying. I wouldn't think you were lying. Why would you think I was lying? Why would you have put a caveat on it? Like, I don't doubt it. Please accept my apologies. I accept your apologies. But Cocoa said something really, really bad to my sister. And we were on my motorcycle. Wait, wait, wait. No, don't skip the, don't skip the headline. What did he say to your sister? Oh, I can't. I mean, do y'all want to hear what Cocoa be wearing said to his sister? You still remember what he said. Do you remember what he said? Yeah, I can't repeat it. But I can give you the gist of it. Well, we'll bleep it out, right? No, no, no. It's his sister. What do you say? I don't want to get canceled. Just does that have a slur in it? Kinda. He basically told my sister he was going to go ask the mouth on her. But he described it in great detail. It was the 80s. Hey, and I've been doing it. Different times, guys. Different times. Different times. Different times. Yeah, I mean, the 80s, everybody was like, look at her. I'll describe Ask the Mouth. No, no, that's his sister. What's wrong with him? Hey, I've been going through, I'd already been through the Von Erick Freebird feud and I knew that Cocoa was out of line. Give me some, you gotta give a, you've teased us. Give us cliff notes of what he said. He said it was big. What it was, his foot? No. His parent? His bird? Yeah. And he was going to take his big parent and stick it up my, my sister's butt and then. Oh, he said wife, which is, that's Mississippi sister. And then he was going to go and then put it in her mouth. I'd know him. You know, you gotta, you gotta overlook. So, of all people, Cocoa beware. Nice. Nice guy. Maybe face. I can tell. And I've got him. I said, I like Cocoa. Yeah. But on the way out, everybody's giving him a hard time. He looks tops and he looks my sister right in the eye and described in great detail the, how he was going to penetrate not one, but two of her orifices. And that was 40 years ago and you're still mad about it, right? Yeah. I don't blame you. Have you met Cocoa since then? I have not. If you meet him, are you going to bring it up? Probably not. I've heard that he will, he will, he will, he will. He'll kick your ass. Yeah, he will. He will. I've heard in great detail. All right. So you've seen a lot over the years. Yeah. So let's ask your opinion. We got to ask your opinion about something that's great because you have a podcast that we've listened to all the time. Pawnwater. Pawnwater podcast. Pawnwater podcast. It's not the, what's the real? Talking wrestling, Pawnwater and Amy. Exactly. Talking wrestling, Pawnwater. Amy's your sister wife? No. That's not funny. That's not funny at all. I don't. He just got through that in there. I'm not. He does that all the time. What do you, what do you, now you talk about what you liked about the business and apparently I don't know if you like Claire or not, you're tired of but what do you hate about the business? Oh yeah. You've seen a lot. You've seen a lot. Besides Coco beware, what do you? Online's killing the business. Online is so negative and now you've got the agents. The agents are horrible and they're online talking shit. Well, one minute they're talking shit. The next minute they're acting like a bunch of fucking marks, taking pictures with their clients. They can't have it both ways. So they're trying to represent their clients and instead of being behind the scenes negotiating, this, this, they're out of the shot. What? You talking about me, Dave? No, Mike. I wasn't talking about you. Wait, what? Wait, wait, wait, I'm just saying. Why do you think he's, why do you think he's talking about you? The gimmick attorney Michael Dawkins. Why are you talking about you? He knows very good and well that once I'm able to get wrestlers, their gimmicks. I get a picture of them. I'm proud of it. I'm happy. I'm happy for them. They get to own their names. So why are you? Well, hey, I was just talking about agents in general, but I mean, if his conscience is hurting him. Wow. I bet you're bored. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Boys. I'm an elderly. Well, buddy, I hope you're wearing your diaper tonight. Oh, come on. We'll see you later. Hey, hey, is he really an agent? Hey, would you get us very bonds autograph? It's not Scott boras. Oh, it's not. No, it's Michael Dawkins. Oh, Michael Dawkins, the gimmick attorney. Would you gimmick or would you trademark cast that kid? I don't think I can trademark that. I'm about to trademark this though. He's taking a picture for social media. Enjoy that, Dave. Wow. Tom Watter, Dave, the gimmick attorney, Michael Dawkins. All right, John, as usual, Curtin Jerkers is a blast and we've got some breaking news. Next week, as folks are listening to this next Friday, you and I are going to be doing something special in the suburbs of St. Louis. We're going to have our buddy, Castillo with us. We're going to have our right hand man, Dylan with us. Dylan's going to be filming the action. You're getting some legends lined up. Where are we going to be? How can folks participate in Curtin Jerkers next week? Yeah, it's Herb, as out there, he's promoting St. Louis and we're sitting there. We're going to be at SICW, I believe is what it is. And it's going to, there's going to be massive amounts of legends that are going to be there and it's going to be an unbelievable time. Herb Simmons, so you're looking for, you can pick up your tickets right now at SICW.org. They are the best in the Midwest. There's a chance, Conrad, I'm going to be in the ring. There's a chance this next weekend I could be in the ring with Herb Simmons. I've been called out by a couple of young guys there and I've got a couple of friends that are pretty big guys that might be willing to go to the ring with me and I might end up in the ring. I don't have any ring gear, so not exactly going to have a wrestling match, but I could be in the ring against these young guys who need a little bit of a lesson. Well, come see us. We're going to be at Fan Fest 4. It's a Bruiser Brody Memorial. It's all happening at the Radisson Hotel and Conference Center in Fairview Heights, Illinois. I told you it was a suburb of St. Louis, but it's one in Illinois, the Radisson Hotel and Conference Center, Fairview Heights, Illinois. It's Fan Fest 4, the Bruiser Brody Memorial. It's going down on the eighth and ninth. That's next Friday and Saturday. You can grab your tickets right now at SICW.org. John, it's going to be good to have the band back together again. We haven't hung out since the end of January, but Cascio is going to be there. Dylan's going to be there. I have a feeling there's going to be some shenanigans and we're going to film it all. There's going to be a lot of shenanigans. Last time we were in a bar, we found out a lot of crazy things about Cascio, by the way. You never know what might happen. The list of legends for this event, SICW event next weekend, is massive. Wait until you see the list of legends that's going to be there. It's going to be a fun weekend. We're going to be there and we're going to be shooting a bunch of stuff, having a lot of fun. Come out and see us. It's going to be a fun time. Yeah. Make plans to join it for sure. You see the poster for this thing and you see a who's who. I can't believe this is real, but Mick Foley's there, Dilo Brown's there, Tommy Rich is there, Haku's there, Al Snow's there, both Bagwell's there, Mickie James is there. I think Dan Severin's there. I think Doink's there. I think Ricky Morton's there. Somehow, someway, Cascio Kitt. I am curious, John. You said you heard some things in a hotel about Cascio. Would you hear? It was unbelievable. I mean, there was all kinds of claims about Cascio Kitt. I didn't realize that so many people were making claims about him. It was like a JP Morgan conference call or something. It was crazy stuff. Yeah. Absolutely wild stuff. Some of it is not repeatable. Actually, none of it's repeatable, but yes, it was all about Cascio. Was it standard issue when you got hired at JP Morgan? You had to get a Bluetooth subscription. I mean, you've been on the street before. Was that required? Yeah. When you got your Series 7, you had to get like a Bluetooth subscription, and yes, and that's yes. Cascio has been applying to JP Morgan now apparently for over a year. Oh, well, we'll keep our fingers crossed for him. Ladies and gentlemen, this was a blast today. Hit the subscribe button, turn on your notifications bell and make plans to come to the Radisson next week. Cascio, JBL, Dylan. It's going to be fun, man. A who's who, a professional wrestling, and we're going to film the silly shit all around it. Be a part of the show and join us at the Bruiser Brody Memorial. It's Fan Fest 4 for SICW. Go check it out at SICW.com. That's it for us this week. Sign us off, John. Bradshaw 316. I just stole your fucking podcast. And don't forget May 5th. It ain't SICW DeMio. It's JBL Day in Mexico. Viva La Bradshaw!