Cody Rhodes talks infamous WrestleMania Afterparty & Undertaker's Final Boss moment

Because if he's the judge, where are you? Are you a judge? No, no. Definitely not a judge. Well, you're also not the bailiff. I'm about to think about that. I don't know. I think you're a lead, lead, DA. You might be the DA. I could be a DA. Yeah. I can go to DA. Yeah. Whoa. Oh, you heard it here. Get the shovels out. Wow. What does DA mean? District attorney. She's like the. I was about to say divorce attorney. Oh, oh. Oh, man. There we go. This episode is brought to you by Factor. Hello, everyone. Get your shovels out because we are going six feet under. This is a Fanatics and WWE original production. And this is going to be part two of a stellar set of interviews. Our guest today, the American nightmare, Cody Rhodes. Get your shovels out. Is that new? That's brand new, man. That's hot. That's hot. 15 seconds new. It also could mean a lot of things. Yeah. I mean, we could bury people. Exactly. Intro to the pod. We could, hey, let's really get our shovels out because we're about to let somebody have it. I like that anyway. That sounds good, man. You know, this is part two. We did your show, and it got me to thinking. Our careers, although different, have had a lot of similarities, man. And, you know, work with me here. So I'm at WCW, and, you know, I'm trying to get a pay raise. Me and Mark. Right? Me and Mark. Me and Mark. Me and Mark Callis. Thank you, Terry Funk. anyway, I'm going, I've been there eight, nine months. I'm just trying to get a bump, right? Just trying to get a little bump in pay. I ain't trying to break the bank. I ain't trying to make Cody Rhodes money. Just a little bump. Just a little bump. A little bump. Right? And they tell me, like, hey, you're a great athlete. No one will ever pay money to see you wrestle. Did someone actually tell you that? Yeah, Ole Anderson told me that. Ole Anderson told you no one's ever going to pay to see you wrestle. You're a great athlete. No one will ever pay money to see you wrestle. I don't want to just linger on this, but what would possess a man, even if you thought that, why take the risk of what if you're wrong? And what if you're incredibly wrong? I know Ole was quite a wild individual, but continue. Wow. Yeah, so it's one of those moments like, okay. Like they wanted to resign me. They just didn't want to, they wanted to re-sign me on the same deal. I think it was $1,200 a month. I think it was something ridiculous, right? Again, I wasn't trying to pay. I wasn't trying to break the bank. I just wanted to be able to pay my rent. And you have that moment, like, that was such a big goal to get to WCW, right? And then to be, to have to face that in the moment in a room full of, you know, there's Ole Anderson and Arnon, Jim Hurd and Jim Barnett, all these guys, and you have to sit there and like, wow, and then have that moment of realization. And I think you had to have that kind of same moment. You know, yeah, you're in the WWE, but things aren't going your way. and it takes a lot of courage to, okay, I'm here, but this is not what I envisioned and this is not what I want to actually pull the plug and leave. Right? And I had to do the same thing. Like I had, okay, I have a job, but I knew right away, that is my ceiling. And there is no upside to what I just got told. And a lot of guys, through my experience, don't have the courage or the belief in themselves to say, I got to get out of here. And you did. Well, the courage and belief, but also part of pulling the plug and doing it and burning the boats and all that part of it makes it so you have no choice. Right. Right? That's the other. It's kind of like if you're going to put this out in the universe and you say it so that you know you're compelled to make it happen. A lot of our confidence as wrestlers, or at least in my case, has been a little bit of fake it till you make it. A little bit of. A lot of fake it till you make it. A lot of it. A lot. But I'll always try to stand up and make it seem like I know exactly what I'm doing. And then you start to figure out a little bit. But it takes time. And I actually, leaving WWE is one thing. Coming back to WWE is actually a very similar situation. So I wish I knew someone who was motivated by, hey, you're the best. And then you go, are the, but that almost, when you don't bet on me or in your case, if someone wasn't betting on you, Oli, it feels good to prove them wrong. And not in like a mean-spirited way, in a way where you can just look at him and go, I told you. It was here. It was here all the time. Needed help. But it was here, yeah. But a lot, as you know, as you both know, so much of it is luck. So much of it is timing. And then for me, I'm so lucky with leaving and coming back. I think the first time I was with WWE, I was always trying to do everything by myself. And I was surrounded by great individuals. You were there. You're still actively wrestling. When I first come into the fray, Hunter's there. Sean's there. I'm getting in the ring with these guys. Great peers. But during that time when I was coming up, we were freshmen, and then they put us on the varsity team is the best way I know how to put it. We needed the seasoning. We had none. And I think about Kofi. I think about Miz. I think about Punk. I think about Sheamus. I think we could tell you those guys are really good, But you know this, and every great booker, depending on which booker it is, it takes two years. It takes three years. It takes five years. As Sinez told me, it takes five. That's his number he gave me. It really does. You can hit a home run every week, but they've got to see it consistently every week, every week. And during that period, I was just so siloed up and all about it. When I left, one of the things that I found was so helpful to me, and when I came back, I'm following the same strategy, is the people around you. like find you find you a good crew of people that want to see you go up want to go up with you and and that's the luck part almost is right being lucky enough to have you know people like that in your career who can really change it and you can change theirs and just being part of a team yeah when you can when you came back is it true that vince flew down to you It is true. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Pump the brakes. Yeah. The old man got on the jet, flew down to Atlanta. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he flew down. I'm out. That's it. And wrap. Part two. Peace out. Part two. He legit did not know this. I thought I was special because I got to go to the house, right? Yeah. I was like, oh, they're going to be, this is double secret kayfabe. Yeah. I'm not going to the, I'm not going to Titan Towers. I'm going to the house. Wow. And what? You just got to. I can't believe he, how did that go? Well, a lot. Obviously it went well, but. It ended up going extremely well. A lot of it had to do with our mutual friend with Bruce Prichard. I think at the time that two two trains of thought Bruce had done some independent shows with me and had seen a little bit of what was going on it was making so much noise that even outside of the big bubble that WWE is you almost had to go what what are the bullet club guys doing what is this here what is why is this taking and there's a thousand people at this indie show and and And there's 10,000 at this one. Just he was seeing that. I think Vince was looking at it from the perspective of, I just need someone to wrestle Seth. That's really what he was. I think I need someone to wrestle Seth. And then the meeting, all I ever thought of the meeting, I was so excited. Again, somebody who said never directly, but I was made to feel didn't value me or didn't value me enough, perhaps. That's all I thought about in that meeting was, I want them just to see me. There's so much that's happened. I've had a child. I've been out. I ran my own show. I've done some promoting. I've done a little booking here and there. I just want to see these guys. Bruce, I know and love already, but I want to see Vince, and I just want to have this conversation and almost say thank you more than anything. thanks for being the house that built me i learned so much and i got to apply it everywhere i went because outside of wwe i was very unique in that i would apply these very pro wwe and very old school philosophies to promos to matches to production to presentation to everything that it almost made me like a gimmick in a way just having that skill set which i was so lucky to have but that's all I thought when we were there. I just want them to see me. And I should have known you're never smarter than, you know, these are the Jedi masters. Absolutely. They got me very quickly, very quickly, and it wasn't even the money. It was just that word, and you guys know this word and how it dangles out there, but opportunity. Opportunity. Opportunity. And then not only do you hear opportunity, you hear, like, it's still a chance to show them. it's still a chance to, yeah. All right, you'll find out. Because this is one idea you have, but the night after, you're going to have a whole other outlook on it. But yeah, he flew down to me, and I honestly thought it would just be a general meet and greet, which is, I'm so naive for thinking. And Bruce is the one who walked me out. And I think I dropped my guard at that point when we were walking out, and I asked him, just what do I do? I had everything planned. I knew everything. I knew everything, but I didn't. I asked him, what do I do? And he just said, I think you know what you should do, which is such a non-answer. Right? Like, buddy. Non-committal. Tell me. Help me out. You got me into this mess. Yes, help me out. You got me into this mess. And the rest for me is very much history. and to be able to come back and have just, I didn't see any of this. I think a lot of people look at what we did when we left and think, oh, there was this plan. No. The plan was to get people interested every week in what I'm doing. And I can do that with social media, and that's the biggest platform as I can really get at this point. That was it. And now looking back, it just seems so faded. And so, you know, you find your destiny on the path you take to avoid it sometimes. And that's certainly been the case with what's happened with me here. And just, yeah, no, I was. But that meeting was done deal after they left. You were back in. Well, you know what always makes it a done deal? And you guys as a couple podcasts, you'd appreciate this. You know what always makes it a done deal? When you call your wife and you just say the numbers. You just say like, well, here's what it is. And then you can just hear, well, yeah, so we're going back to WWE. Yep. Yep, I think so. I think so, yeah. Time to hit the road. Yeah, because I remember telling her, like, she was really, you know, she saw things for me that I perhaps didn't see myself. But I remember talking to my sister, and she just had the best outlook on it. But it was almost like a – it was almost said in a way a sister can say it. She just said, well, be careful what you wish for. And I thought, shit. Yeah. Yeah, you're stiff, but positive as well? Yeah. Is it? Yeah, fair warning. Can you give me a little bit more here? Yeah, and then it was just a wild situation. It developed so quickly, and next thing you know, you're showing up at WrestleMania. Just showing up at WrestleMania. Just showing up. So you definitely went from the outhouse to the penthouse pretty quick. I mean, it's one of those stories where it seems quick. as far as WWE goes, it's... I was presented as if I never existed there before in a way. I was presented as this fully polished, ready... If you didn't know and you were a young kid watching, you're like, oh, that's so cool. You jumped right in. If you did, you were rewarded for knowing the journey. But it was... The situation, looking back at it now, so many things were happening. I had two television shows that were on, uh, discovery now, but Warner media programming, I had to juggle that. Uh, I, I had to really weigh it out. Obviously opportunity is amazing, but I had to really weigh it out. Is this, is this a mistake? Right. They didn't see it the first time. They saw a little of it, but they didn't see it. Is this the biggest mistake ever? You think the first time leaving is the biggest mistake ever. Coming back, my fear was like, this could be the biggest gamble of all. I had a good gig. I had, I, I, you know, contrary to what you hear and you guys know how the internet likes the internet, but I, I had a good gig. I had, I had an executive job that I loved the bullet club guys, but you know, evolving and moving myself forward, it was just a lot to weigh out. And again, it could have been a big, had I gone out there and belly flopped in the pool, like you know it wouldn't have hurt WWE at all he wasn't he was Little League all along I'm getting anxiety over it now and it's over we already did it we're good but I understand what you're saying you're doing TV shows and you're producing you're doing all these other things and as everybody knows with WWE there comes constraints that you know your projects and all that are going to be conformed in there. So it is a big decision. This segment, y'all, is brought to you by Factor Meals. Factor Meals. This is going to be the dead man's revival meal. Okay. When you're burnt out, you need some food, you need to recharge, what do you go to? Okay. I think consistently what I would go to in this case is there's one place that makes it better than others but rigatoni a la vodka with grilled chicken yeah i don't get enough pasta in my life and there's something about it that that hits yeah you get like the warm jets feeling a little bit you know like you're doing something wrong almost illegal it's that yeah yeah but the grilled chicken balances it out 100 percent it's like having a diet coke with it it's such an arn anderson way to look at it yeah well you got the chicken too yeah you got the grilled chicken yeah grana by my house in roswell makes rigatoni a la vodka, grilled chicken. Oh, that's great. Good times. Is this a thing? Is Chef's Kiss still a thing? I think you do that. Chef's Kiss? You just made it one, man. Okay, there you go. Yeah, that will revive me. That sounds pretty good. I might have to have that. Eat smart at factormills.com slash undertaker 50 off. And use code undertaker 50 off. To get 50% off your first box. Plus free breakfast for one year. So again, I didn't know he flew down. Flew, yeah. Yeah. I did hear this, though. Tell me if this is true or false. Did he put the number on a piece of paper? Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Balls move. Balls move. So imagine there's nothing on this, right? Right. And then he just wrote a number. He wrote the number. Three people could just tell me the number. Right. But he wrote it, and he went like this. that's great. I saw you write it. So none of this, like it was just so, you know what I really appreciated? It was old school. Yeah. And I still have, I'm not even from that era and I kind of want to be. And I felt like, oh, that's nice. That's like a gangster. Very gangster, like not saying it out loud. Like the room was bugged. Under the table, just kind of, yeah. Yeah, and also like these figures, there was, you're talking about getting a little bump and Jim Hurd and Barnett and all these guys. There's that period of time where you are talking about little bumps, incremental, you know, bones here and there. And then there's that period of time where you're talking about money that's life changing. And how do you react to life changing money? And it wasn't the first time I'd seen something like that, but it's certainly, you never learn how to, what's your What do you do? You got a no-sell. You don't want to be shocked. Yeah, were you overthinking that? In the heart, you almost have to... Like you're not that impressed, right? But you want to show gratitude probably. But that's the thing. You don't want to be ungrateful either. So it's... I think every... Especially like the male... The male aspect of it is like, I'll just kind of... Oh, but then also... You got one life. to live here you don't want to leave this room with people thinking like what a dick you know so like okay but that's i think what i said was like well that's a lot of money i think that's what i said but also i'm thinking i shouldn't have said that there could have been more you know like but uh but again it's like those situations that you watch movies that's crazy prepare for these negotiations then you find one and only you're so unique in your moment it's only going to be how you would deal with it how i would deal with how you would deal with it everyone's different and i always wonder i think about my peers all the time when they go into these negotiations things that nature i'm like i wonder what he's doing when they say these things right i wonder like is there like a line um i'll tell you something funny um the final boss uh the rock gave me some advice one time and i so poorly used it he told me in certain meetings in la and i thought this was great advice but not how i used it he said big mistake wrestlers make a lot of saying like oh i don't i'm not really that interested in acting no yes you are like you're interested in telling a story that's what you do you're a storyteller he said something that you should always tell people is that you want to grow and i thought that's great you do want to grow like yeah it's not great when you say it eight times like when you sit across from a guy in a general meeting who has real questions like so we got this project you'd be great for what are you thinking you just want to grow you know i'm just interested in growing and then find yourself 30 minutes later going yeah that sounds great i'm just trying to grow to the point where in your mind you're going stop quit talking stop saying you want to grow say something else this guy's gonna walk away and be like this guy what's wrong with this guy like is he a psychopath like he must have said yeah but he told me he's like just tell me you want to grow and i just walked into a meeting the guy asked like 40 questions and I just couldn't come up with another answer. So now I will catch myself. Two is all you get. Two is all you get. Two is all you get. Two gross is all you get. Yeah. It was a great answer, just poorly applied by me. That's funny. Yeah. That's. I just want to grow. I just want to grow. You have. It's funny when you're talking about negotiations and selling yourself a little bit short and you always second guess whatever it is, right? I remember me and Vince were sitting in Smith and Walensky's in New York City, and we're negotiating a contract as we eat dinner. And this was, I don't remember what the numbers were, but this was like, this is right around the beginning of the downside, right? The downside guarantee. And I knew what the going downside was. And because I limited myself to outside projects because of the character, I thought that I wanted, just for a personal reason, I wanted the highest downside guarantee Yeah So I was trying to figure out like you have this battle with yourself when you when you trying to come up with that number right Like man I don want to scare him off I don't want to undersell myself. And, uh, and he didn't, he didn't write the number down. I wish, I wish I would've got that. That was pretty slick, but he hit me with the number and, uh, it wasn't where it wasn't where I was at. and I just went hmm I said well I was thinking and I came right back I came right back with my number and he was like done and I was like you should have been thinking something else yeah I should have like man I knew I was too low because I wanted a little bit of pushback but when he I was like damn I underbid myself on this but anyway it worked out but do you guys subscribe to the thought and this is something you were here for so long and were part of the institution of WWE. You weren't just wrestling on the show. You were helping others. You were part of stories. You were collaborating with creative. You were dealing with partnerships. You knew about headquarters. You knew some of the actual guys in suits walking around at WrestleMania and the Rumble. When you're part of the bank, I always say, well, I don't want to rob the bank then. if I want to work at the bank. And I can tell you, as great as that sounds to someone who's on the side of WWE, it's so dumb as a wrestler. You're like, that's where you got to talk to your mom or somebody and be like, what? You have to talk with someone who's not as invested into that. Yeah, you have to have some clarity from someone else that's not invested. I think it's hard, too, when you're a people pleaser. You want to make people happy, and you don't want to do anything wrong, and then it's hard to even enjoy those moments and you're just constantly worried about everything. I feel like wrestling, because you said people pleaser, wrestling preys on the people pleaser. Agreed. We are the ones who are hurt the most when it doesn't go our way. We're the ones so excited when it does. And then we're the ones watching those others who are maybe get a check types, whatever. And I envy that almost. Your energy is not as into this. I'm selling everything. This is that one bad promo into my career. Done. It's all you think about. Done. Right? But that is the same thing that makes you great. You can play that mind game all you want, but the fact that you are tore up about missing a line in a promo is the same thing that will make you great. Yeah. So. Do you know, I've never mentioned this to you before, but I saw something where you were, this was WrestleMania. You had already, I think the streak had already been broken. It was probably Roman. No, it wasn't Roman. But it was just you were doing your rehearsal for WrestleMania. And you didn't have the time you wanted to tell the story. And I just remember it was just a conversation with you and your producer and I overheard it. but I couldn't believe how much you gave a shit. I couldn't believe it because I thought he's done everything. He is already like, he's an existing hall of famer. Like he has literally done everything. And then I, I've used that story as an example because I saw it. I saw it with him first. Then I saw something similar with Sina. Then I saw it again with rock. I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, you never stop when you want it. Yeah. When this is, when you got the fever, that's what we my little group we call does he have the fever does she have the fever oh she does oh like you everything matters to you yeah you're not looking at it like i get plenty of those glasses of water no this is the last one and i need you know like i just couldn't believe it and i thought it was really motivating i thought i'm glad that there's not a point you get to where you're not stressed completely out trying to tell the story the best way you know how Yeah. I love that. I just, I've always lived by this, like, never be content with anything that you've ever done. And I'll just go back to the opportunity thing, but, you know, it's always, you know, any chance that you get, especially late in my career, like, I was really trying to deliver in a time that, you know, I physically, you know, I physically probably wasn't at my best. So everything mattered. Right. And I knew I probably needed a little longer to get to where I wanted to go and telling that story. But, yeah, it was just, yeah, once you've tasted it, man, it's hard. Because you know what got you to that point. And you just can't, you're right, you can't flip it off. But somehow both of you always, like, y'all always hit the pinnacle of a match, like almost just perfect. you and Sean, you and Sina this summer at SummerSlam. I mean, we were watching backstage. It was so dang good. But y'all still continue to go top that match and go top. And I think it's because of that passion that y'all are talking about right now, like not being content when we're looking at it going, how can you not be content with near perfection? Like, I don't know. I don't want to use the word, but I think like, because he kind of hinted on it, it's addictive. Oh, yeah. But that's, especially growing up in the business, that was always a hard thing to see is some of the legends could not handle not existing anymore. And they'd kind of, you know, crash out as we say today and you'd see it all in front of you. And I always liked the ones that could parlay into normal life and normal career. And maybe on the other side of the camera, because that, that is tough. Yeah. You know, I can't like, if you're Rick or one of these like guys who did it every single night and then all of a sudden, that's it. Or even if you see it coming, like, Oh, you're not someone else's coming. You're on the way. I don't know. I think I got a good perspective on it as a kid because I grew up and Dusty was old man wrestler already. He'd already had the run. Dustin had him when he was in the run. I had him was like already the run. And he had really developed a being, he had found a good place in his life. and you see that that's I feel like the hardest thing yeah you know with with our guys as they get older with our girls as they get older it's like finding a place where you still give but it's you're not having to do that every night talk about giving like how cool has it been to be a part of like Cena's retirement tour because my gosh talk about giving back and just paying respect in every single match has been the coolest thing to watch I um I think sometimes you know as a wrestler i feel like anytime we're telling a story it's you think the world revolves around you in a sense like they'll remember this what if we did this call back and then yet old wwe is like no one remembers what happened last week you know which is actually good advice because every time you go out there you should try and remind them of who you are but one of the things about john that i was so grateful for and definitely didn't think i would get the chance to do was i drove John pre-bus the whole time. So I drove him around from when I got here and I was with Randy a little bit, but that's a wild ride. And as everyone knows, God bless. And then I was with John the most of the time, which was also a wild ride, but he was teaching without teaching. Right. Just, just, you know, he'd sit there and I'd hear him talk to Joe Hickey and get the numbers. And then in my mind, I'm thinking, all right, I got to talk to Joe Hickey. I didn't do any of this stuff till I came back and he said something to me in a promo that came out of nowhere he goes you took the playbook and you did it wrong and again we're like having this contentious moment in a promo but i thought like he ain't lying on the took the playbook part right i took everything i saw him do and i tried to apply it as the moment i left here which didn't take right away but once i got in the infrastructure here his general guideline for being a virtuous baby face or whatever how i thought man virtuous right and i and i thought i i this is a good line to follow so the fact that i got to stand across from him and i got him to see me that was huge for me i need you to see me great i'm your little understudy and i i wanted to be like you all that but now i need you to see me and i thought he won't wrestling is far more real than people think right yeah he won't until we get it done until we have that SummerSlam match. And I thought, oh, I'm glad I did not. The first thing I think of is I didn't blow the stuff you taught. I didn't screw it up, right? I'll screw it up, but I didn't screw it up with you. And that was just a huge honor to be a part of. We were watching it backstage. And do you remember, so we were sitting on the backside of Gorilla, the back wall, and it was you, then it was me, Punk, and Brandy. And y'all were deep into the match now. I mean, I don't know, like five attitude adjustments in. and I don't know how many false finishes. We were hook, line, sinker. What is going on? And then Brandy turned. She goes, normally I ask him, is there anything you need to give me a heads up on or what's happening to Matt? She goes, I didn't ask tonight. Now I'm really wishing I had. It's better that she didn't. Yeah, I think normally I was like, sometimes not. But at that very moment, I kid you not, do you not remember this? Mark stands up and proceeds to power walk. I'm talking like stomp, doesn't look our way, doesn't say I'll be back, nothing. power walks through the curtain in Gorilla and me, Punk, and Brandy almost at the same time were like is he? Because he'd come out the year before at Wrestlemania and not many people knew. I did know about that one but we're like and I said is he about to do a run in? She's like I have no idea and Punk's eyes are big and we're like I kid you probably four or five minutes he comes back to the curtain I'm like where are you at? He's like I had to go pee there's a port-a-potty through the curtain and I'm like are you serious right now? We all thought you were about to do a run in. I'm a little older now when you get that call you don't know you don't know when you're in Gorilla you don't know where the closest restroom is at so when you get to call but you went through the curtain and I didn't know where the ramp was it was funny we all had this moment of I bet the port-a-potty was on the other side before you go out so I had to hit that quick I mean because I didn't want to miss the finish that's why I was in a hurry I didn't want to miss the finish you knew it was time I could go now and get back Yeah, but you can't be messing around. But all three of us were like. You get that bladder like that. It was great. Did you know about WrestleMania 40? Did you know? I knew. Okay. I did know. So we had a suite. That's kind of what we do now. We get the suite. We sit up there and watch the show, right? Except Kaya, and she was ringside, and I didn't tell her. I don't think you were the only one that I told. And there's, what, 20-plus people in my suite. and I'm like and you were up there and I'm up there right oh man and I finally said I gotta go so I get up and walk out I really don't acknowledge or say anything to anybody but I get up and then go down and we do the piece of business and I guess like everybody was like they were all pissed at me like I didn't like I was supposed to I wasn't going to ruin that for everybody like I can't believe you didn't tell us I'm like why would I tell you like that that'd take all the fun I take all the fun out of what just happened. Yeah, so we thought you were just going to have us back again that night. But you didn't need it. What? Big news. WWE and sports fans. The world's number one sports fan festival, Fanatics Fest, is making its return to New York City. Fanatics is bringing you closer to the league's team, superstars, and athletes you love across four action-packed days in July. Meet your favorite WWE superstars. Get your hands on exclusive merch. Catch live podcasts and interact with the biggest names in sports. Tickets are on sale now. And fans of the podcast get a 10% discount by using code TAKER10 at checkout. I got to go back. So we got to where we're at. I got to go back to WrestleMania 29, which I've heard from your end of it. It was kind of one of those days that happened that really let you know. Was this when I got cut and grilled? Yes. Okay. All right. You got cut because me and Punk, we went longer than we should. I never blamed you guys, though. There was a P. Diddy performance as well. Oh, Jesus. Let's blame him. We were blaming him. He didn't put it on the record. It was his fault. I felt horrible because I got to see you a little bit in passing of how disappointed and hurt that you were that you didn't go out. I remember you saying something to me about that, about seeing him. And that was the point in your career where you'd come back and you were flat for however long after the match. But I remember you saying something like how, God, I feel bad. Like I saw Cody and he did. When he told us we were cut, when Vince said we were cut, everyone had a different reaction. We're talking about how you reacted money, right? My reaction was one of the worst reactions I think. I wanted to fight. Because we were in gorilla. And I kind of knew the general, sometimes you're too smart for your own good. I kind of knew the general outline of the rest of the show. I'm thinking, really? This is a three-minute match with 90 seconds of walk. And I couldn't get off him. And there was somebody like, all right, we'll do it tomorrow on Raw. And there was like this false positivity. And I thought, well, obviously, I can't and won't fight him. I'm just going to go sit under the stage. And I was just in full gear sitting under that stage, which is MetLife, by the way. Right. Which is where we're talking about the John Cena match. Yeah. Wild. Yeah, thank you. Full circle moment right there. Yeah. I very much needed that, though. Because, again, like that period of time, a couple of things. You and Punk had gone longer than whatever. The times were different then. They were very. But also, I'm pretty sure Total Divas was filming for the purposes that the match was always going to get cut. And I've asked Nikki about it. And I've asked, yeah, to this day, like, hey, did you know? And they all like, no. And I actually believe them in a sense that they didn't. Yeah. But I think, no, I think this might have always. A little storyline for. Exactly. And as a wrestler and storyteller, I would have liked to have known. I would have gone about this. Little heads up. Yeah, a whole different way. You don't learn this until later and you get more experience, I suppose. But I did learn that a lot of what I was mad about during that period, a lot of it was fixable. I think I needed to fully pull the Band-Aid. I think I needed to, you know, you say burn the boats. I needed to do that to figure out all the things I wasn't doing. Because as time went on and, you know, working on our own alternative promotion and trying things, I realized how, like, delusional the wrestler can be sometimes. But that doesn't take that sting away. No, it never will. Like, when you finally get that little moment, it's like, oh. No, it never will. I mean, even to this day, that sets you in a place where you're still thinking about times. and I guess it's a good thing in that matter. But yeah, no, that was what I was going to say. It was tough. So 90, what was it, 94 SummerSlam? It's going to be Undertaker versus Undertaker, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I had taken some time off to heal up and do some things. But the whole summer was focused around trying to find the Undertaker. Yeah, Leslie Nielsen. Leslie Nielsen. Yeah, of course. Yes. So, which was, he was a riot, by the way. He was incredible. So we get to, we finally get to DiBiase has the new Undertaker. And we go in Chicago, go in and Brett and Owen worked before. In the cage? Yes. Right before, which was incredible. But they were right before us and went over by like 15, 20 minutes. Okay. We had three minutes to pay off the whole summer. And it was one of those deals. It was just like. And you're locked in. Oh, I'm locked in. 94 times. Pay-per-view's cutting off if you guys mess up. Yes. Yeah. They padded. I think they had like a five-minute pad of, yeah, Between our go home and going completely black. So, yeah, we did that whole almost year buildup. We paid it off in three minutes. It was, yeah, it's not a good feeling. My point to all that is it's not a good feeling. But, man, I just remember the anger and the feel that I had because that was probably, yeah, I mean, I'd worked with Hogan, and I beat Hogan already, but this was one of the really first huge buildups in this whole process, and then to get ripped out from underneath. For what it's worth, we were really happy when we got three minutes. There you go. What? For what it's worth. I mean, when we got three minutes, I was like, are you serious? Are you ribbing us? They would tell you, go home on the way out. They literally told us that, though. They told us that at a WrestleMania. Had a mixed tag. Was it the Snooki one? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, they told us, as soon as you get in the ring, go home. I'm like, I don't know how to do that. I'd like to, but I don't know how to do that. You got to remember, I'm like slightly adjacent to a lot of the lay cool stuff. Because at the time, I was dating Layla. And I remember WrestleMania in Atlanta, which is this match happens. I had the best night of my life. I wrestled with Rey Mysterio. It was the greatest night ever. But wrestling, you know how it goes. One up, one down. And then the next thing you know, I saw her like crying in the hallway. You know, just good old general public tears and thought, okay, what happened? What did we, yeah, no, just, was Morrison in this match too? Morrison was, there was a whole lot going on. Yeah, there really was. There was a lot. So I have a bone to pick with you, and I don't know if I've ever told you this story over this LeCoultre run. Oh, no. And I also learned a really good lesson in this LeCoultre run, which I share at the school all the time. But speaking of titles, so you guys saw the belt in half, correct? Mm-hmm. Okay. So I often brought the belt to TV because someone would forget the belt. I often brought it. Oh, boy. It wasn't me. I would have it in my bag. And one title going through TSA is something where it's a big chunk of metal. Another one that looks like a hatchet is a whole conversation. And then when they take it out and it's the women's world championships, well, I mean, they split it because there's two of them. What are you doing with it? I don't know. and you get to the point where you're like I collect these I collect these right like the guys who come to the show and they have all the but I collect these but yeah that sorry no it's all good because I'm pretty sure that was someone else should have brought it but this other crazy moment I'm sure you remember this but we use this as a you know classic wrestling rules I still like a good old baby face never backs up and there's a moment do you remember when it's Mae Young is backing look I was scared of her yes but you guys I'm backing up you guys are like kind of like chirping and I remember hearing her under her breath because she's just going for you this is a funny segment it's not meant to get to fisticuffs really and I remember her saying you bitches better back up she called a slut yeah and I thought that's a baby face like no matter the context and no it's two on one all that the baby face doesn't back up and I thought what a lesson oh and like may chasing you like she yeah just called us sluts and two little bitches and she has that look in her eyes and you know she's old school like she i'm like i'm not getting within distance for her to catch me that was the thing it's classic it's like hey if i make the tag i make the tag yeah right stop me you you you work all shit around you you know like in the way i thought i hope they know she's gonna swing yes you guys did it We literally went all the way to the railing until like the twins were holding her back. Like we couldn't go any further. I'm like, oh, I was about to put Layla right in front of me. You couldn't go any further. I thought like this is so great. Still applying these rules to this day I was I was I was happy Those are two of my favorite moments Lay Cool was fire Thank you Lay Cool was fire You guys had so much heat You know like on a live event when some music hits and it's like, there were certain musics that hit through the night that almost keep a live event alive. Alright, it's time for that. And when that stuff would hit, people just were so into it. Because you were so entertaining at taking away the thing they'd want. I remember with Natty, like really built Natty up and then we'd like pull it away it was just really unique and i was again watching on the sides of all that but gosh like you guys the whole everything you were doing on tv was hitting no i appreciate it it was like a like a run you know like everything was hitting well it was during the time too where you had to make it hit and try to think like we had no storylines for the next week as far as creative went we were constantly out there like what could we do to make them go you know like why'd they do that or well this is this is my question for you because i i'm really curious about this i always assumed the best thing you could do when you were in the women's division is just get over to where you really weren't in the women's division anymore where you were just a star so and that's kind of what it felt like and and that's I I didn't never an indictment on the women's division but I tell um people all the time and when I was doing my my little run in management people would say like I want to bring the women's division up and I'd always say like just bring yourself up yeah it'll help everybody just focus on you i feel like from from and i could be totally wrong but from your perspective is that a job that you feel you needed to do is to bring the whole division up because i feel like it's different you guys had such a limited real estate and and and the camaraderie has really shown over the years in terms of how that divas area yes like the divas era was looked at and like how everyone's kind of stood up for one another i just i was curious if you felt it was your job because I never know what to say when when it's a a woman wrestler talking to me and I'm thinking huh I don't know the answer yeah yeah I think I mean during our time we just had to prove ourselves so much to even be on the card at all I mean there was only going to be one women's match if there were any women's segments at all and I think it wasn't so much um yeah it wasn't pulling myself up as much as people want to think you know that's what it is I was always under the understanding that it takes two to tango. And it's going to take all of us to make any type of impact whatsoever to be on any card any given day. And so that was always my mindset. We have to work together. We have to. You and your opponent. Yeah. I think it's the most old school thing ever, and I love you saying it because now all the wrestlers who I've shared a program with or a full angle or a storyline, the ones who really I admired and got a lot from were the ones that were also looking out for me. You have to. At all times. They'd hear about what you were doing the night adjacent to the angle. Oh, no, no, that's not working. No, we're... And I thought, that's what this takes. You really... Yeah, it's true. Then you get linked to them, and when you're done with them, you're like, wait, no. Hang on, wait, where'd you go? You get spoiled, right? You get spoiled real quick when you gotta start training a new person. Yeah, you get spoiled, and then it's like, no, no, I liked... He was good. Wait, wait, that was easy. Hang on. Yeah, it was... It had to almost be incredibly frustrating because I got to see her, you know, work and struggle and fight for every, every little thing. And, and writing for not only herself, but everybody that was, it was like, Oh man, just give them a chance. Kind of right. You're thinking to yourself and. They eventually did. Eventually. Yeah. I mean, eventually you guys got a few, few more opportunities, but I mean, initially y'all were told at one point that you couldn't punch. Oh, yeah. Or kick. Punch or kick. You got reprimanded for having a match that was too good, right? We had to go out and redo it after we had already changed. That was you and Melina? Well, Melina and I got in trouble for our punches looking better than the guys, is what they said at the time. And Jericho stood up for us, but that's when our punches and kicks got taken away. It's crazy that this sounds made up, but I know it's not made up. I know. Isn't that wild? I remember the brief period where the no punching, no headlocks. Such a bizarre. And Fit would always just say, let it go for like two weeks. It'll be on to something new. And they always were. Fit was awesome. I don't know how he handled all of y'all. Me neither. He did a really good job. Plus his heart. Fit seems like one of those individuals in wrestling that anytime you bring him up. Everybody has something positive. He went to bat for us. Yeah. Time and time again. I used to like I'd be listed on the sheet at live events, wrestling, maybe Matt Hardy or maybe wrestling. It could be a lot of things. It could be Jamie Noble. It could be Charlie Haas. Who knows? And then the next thing you know, it would just be Fitz music. Yeah. I think like, what? OK, cool. Yeah. And then I remember he'd always he'd do the honors. He'd like put you over, but then he'd shillelagh you. Yeah. So it's like, are we going to get him? He's not like he's going to get him. Yeah. And like he it was all about it. You'd see him like he over there in the corner. Oh, this is perfect. Boom, lay out. Yeah. What a tribute to the... That's such a great... We were doing... You know, I'm sure you get this all the time. I'm sure you get this. Nothing is worse than on an interview outside of wrestling, interviewing wrestlers, interviewing wrestlers, where somebody asks us to Mount Rushmore. So what I do with my Mount Rushmore is I say a different one every time. Perfect. And I'm waiting for somebody to go, wait. Didn't you just say... Didn't you? Yeah. But one of the Mount Rushmore's I started doing the other day, I said, here's a Mount Rushmore for the second chapter. of their career, the third chapter of their career. What I mean by fit is still giving. That's his life's work. Hunter's still giving. Sean is still giving. You guys are still giving. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Topps Now. Highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year. Topps Now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event-exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, the moment could be the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial-numbered parallels, some Topps Now releases offer a chance at rare short prints, superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear, or other items used during the featured match. So which moments will you collect? With each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your Topps Now journey. Be sure to subscribe to WWE Topps Now mailing list on Topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. Man, we've covered some really cool topics. I was just sitting here thinking about something. Oh, no. What? You got there yet? I don't know. I'm nervous for you. I mean, this had to have been a highlight for your career, your young career. Oh, geez. I'm excited. Yeah. WrestleMania? No, not what? It wasn't WrestleMania. Well, it was the after party. Oh, I know where you're going. Muscle Mania. Muscle Mania. That was the best thing ever. That was one of the highlights of my career. Do tell. Okay. Well, let me set it up the best way. I know Santino in his book, I think, our Jericho's book, somebody highlighted that Europe tour, making fun of Santino for being out of shape, which people forget Santino was a shooter. Yeah. Full-blown judo shooter who ended up being an absolutely stellar comedy, hilarious, I mean, show stealer. Amazing, so talented. But I got on to him about getting out of shape. Then we're going back and forth. Then CNN JBL got a hold of it. Oh, no. And then it became, well, why don't you guys have this bodybuilding competition? At one point, it was like multiple aspects. There was going to be lifting, this and that. Like this path of least resistance, we're going to go bodybuilding. The whole time of this is going on, I'm not thinking I'm the heel. The whole time this is going on, I'm thinking, we're really doing this. I'm not the only one who's noticed Santino. I'm not thinking how bad I sound, how arrogant. And it wasn't until Cena made the t-shirts. Ah, yeah. Cena made the t-shirts, and it was the Mega Powers shirts. But I was savage. And I thought, ah, shit. I'm the bad guy? Okay, all right. But I also thought, I think everyone's going to forget about this. No way. Because WrestleMania, everyone's stressed out. And a lot of it, this was the hot topic for a whole Europe tour. And then three or four weeks go by and no one's talking about it. I'm thinking, no way. However, I still put a Speedo on under my suit to wear to the Hall, not the Hall of Fame, the after party. The after party. Just in case. Just. but that even went weird too because the after party had been going long enough it had been kid rock was playing kid rock was there i don't no one's remembering this and then john has a room over the side with johnny walker blue going around i'm thinking oh whoa okay this is cool and then john cone bunts it like comes in the room he's like hey they're calling you out there okay i walk back into the ballroom and it's you who's on the microphone just going cody and you didn't even see me i like walk through the crowd and like you're just doing it and so to walk people through what happened hunter and you pa a bodybuilding contest at the wrestlemania after party and i am in my speedo santino's not even in the speedo he's in full posing trunks, like essentially a thong, like full glutes shown and everything. And you're calling the poses and making a little side commentary about the posing as we go. And my parents are there. Yes. And this is great. You kicked Kid Rock off the stage. He was hot, didn't you? He got hot. He got hot. He got hot. I know. He did not want the naked muscle men on the stage. No, it was between. We ruined his vibe. Yes. he came I won't say it's kind of politically incorrect what he told me but he was hot and then not only because I was kind of watching him walk out of the room and he's kind of throwing his arms up and he was so pissed and then I'm like oh shit like kid he was going to sing and then I turned and then the girl who was the singer for the band now she's cutting a promo on me I'm like well wait a minute why am I getting all the heat. Paul's the one that came and said, hey, we're going to do this thing. It might have been the Cody chants. It might have been the Cody. I realized the opportunity to give the whole after party Kid Rock performance. And instead you opted to give them an inside joke of a bodybuilding competition between at the time he was Santina. He was Santina. He won the Royal as Santina. So I'm thinking he's had a great night. I wasn't on WrestleMania. So when you're not on WrestleMania and you're at WrestleMania, you have to have your best attitude. Otherwise, you are going to pull your hair out, right? So we go on stage. We do the poses. I am booed every time. And I thought, like, I'm not in bad shape. But that's not what this is about. I figured that out. Then Hunter throws to, like, a talent portion. And Santino does this Russian, like, dance where you, like, drop down. He's, like, kicking his feet. Yeah, it's flawless. Yes, it was good. I did like a backflip off the stage, which wasn't flawless, but he did that again. I'm booed and I'm thinking, what the like, what is this? And I again, it's all coming to me and like I'm figuring out as as we go. Here's the part where I realize, oh, no, this might be the worst night of my life was. Linda McMahon is in the front row and Linda, I had all the respect in the world for. She wasn't at a lot of events. and when she was, you wanted to do your best. Linda's there. You see her in the front row, like, Linda's there. And she is the only one who's kind of clapping for me. And then she sees the room, and all of a sudden she just goes. Like this. And she literally gave me, like, the double thumbs down. Oh, gosh. And, like, my stomach turned. I thought, like, oh. Now you start thinking again. The worst night of my life. And, again, I did not win. It was announced that Santino won a giant trophy, which JBL commissioned, which had an ice skater on it, a football player on it, a basketball player. Every sport you could imagine. Every color you could imagine. And it was seven feet tall, this trophy. It was tall. Which clearly stayed in the green room. And it would be amazing if we could find out where it was today. That would be. But it is not a highlight of my career. Well, it was very entertaining. the only thing that was said to me that night that made any sense came from ray mysterio and he just said and i couldn't believe it because i was legit oh what a bad like oh i hate i hate this and i remember ray goes thanks for doing that for the boys and i thought oh man that's why you're a mysterio yeah now i'm gonna go kick my closet in my hotel room and break it and have to figure out how to tell John Cohn that I did it. Yeah. Oh, man. That was muscle mania. There are shirts. That was great. You want to know another rib about that? Everyone got a shirt. They're wearing them at TV, looking great. I asked for one from John. He gave me a triple X. Oh, man. That's messed up. True John fashion. That's messed up. I looked like I was wearing like a freaking pajamas as a kid, like a sleepover. It was so, yeah, muscle mania. And if you ask Santino about it, this is the crazy thing. Santino talks about it as if it was a rigid and strict bodybuilding competition to which he won and I can't I don't want to take that from him anymore like yeah you did you want it yeah yeah you got it but yeah that was muscle mania I have I love muscle mania I may have entered the one and only muscle mania that's a lot yeah that's that that after party right there is hall of fame worthy that is hall of fame worthy I I really thought it wasn't I think I was so shocked that you and Hunter were so into it? Well, I think Hunter was a little bit more into it than I was. Well, you got the party started, and then he took over with the posing. Yeah, once I christened it, he can be a little evil himself. Yeah, but I mean, like, yeah, muscle mania. Everyone has their opinions on it. I think there's some photos of it somewhere. You've got to find those. But you know, you're riding this incredible high right now. Every once in a while, you just need to keep, if you got to be brought down, you just got to go, man, I did a job for Santino Morella at Musclemania. Linda, man, double thumbs. Double thumbs down from Linda Mack. Double thumbs down. Not like one thumb. No, both. And then she was into it after that. She was like, yeah. Like booing everything. Committed. Like, come on. She was committed. Oh, man, that was a bummer. I don't think I ever want her back. That same night, like this is kind of, it is unrelated, but it was the same after party. I don't know if you know, but it was super special for my dad. My dad and your dad became pretty good friends. I was going to ask about that. Throughout the years, yeah. But it was that night that they started talking about Palaka and him wrestling in the armory because my dad was there. He has like a picture still of he and a friend and your dad in the middle with just a towel on in the locker room after one of the shows. Imagine that, yeah, right? Your dad, you guys, the family came to the only time we ever wrestled as a trio, as a six-man. Yeah. Me, Dustin, and Dream. the only time wherever the heck we were in Florida yeah I don't remember either but I mean your dad was special to our entire family growing up and then they just hit it off and do you know that your dad was he would send my dad ads of he wanted a donkey on his land really bad I think I do remember that yeah yeah I do yeah so he would find these donkeys and he's like there was an ad for this one real I don't know what was so special about this donkey there was a special donkey he was really putting it out there like he wanted my dad to go to Bunnell which was near where they live and check it out And so, you know, dad called and checked out this donkey. But then it got sold before your dad could buy it. So, you know, he couldn't just have another donkey. I wish my dad did not have room in Lutz for that donkey. Where would it have been? I don't know. He said Lutz. I have no idea. But he didn't get the donkey because it was already sold and he wouldn't have another donkey. But through the years, he would, yeah, he would, they'd text it back and forth. He'd go down to FCW. They hung out. They had a special bond. They did. That match where we're in the six-man, there's such a unique dichotomy between. Because I always, I get really, I feel like I don't fit in the three a lot of times. Because Dustin's so uniquely one way and Dream so uniquely one way. But me and Dusty are on the corner and Dustin is in there. And he is hitting the ropes to where you can hear the corner ping. and he's hitting them so hard and there's only about 300 people and it was only could hold 300 people it was a nice fun with that ain't what we're doing and i remember looking at my dad and even my dad was like what is he doing yeah this is what he does like he doesn't have a he only he's above 60 miles per hour at all times there is and i thought especially that run like he wanted to get his workout his sweat he wanted to paint off it was a whole thing but then my dad got in there and he circled with Trent Barretta for like nine rotations and I could see Trent was just like and then my dad just goes lock up and I thought what is this match like this is what the styles are so uniquely situated here but yeah that was the one time we were all ever in the ring together as a team and your dad was right there he was in the front row I never knew how they became buddies yeah they started talking at that after party I used to brag about your dad, though, because I felt like he had like a connection with you because of the connection with your dad. And I think he really liked that. Yeah. My dad was really authentically, if he picked somebody that he'd start a company with your dad. You could. You know what I'm saying? They were going in on some land together. Something like. Some donkeys. Yeah, exactly. Donkeys. Because that, you know, that happened with Blackjack, right? Oh, no. So Blackjack and Dusty went in and bought all this land in Florida. I found out about it when I was older. And I thought, well, who's got it? Who'd the land go to? Who sold it? I talked to Bray, and Bray's like, no, no, I think you have your half. I have mine. When are we getting it? Dusty passed away. No land. Blackjack, no land. Yeah, we don't know to this day what they went in on this whole to get a tax credit on farming. Yeah, just financially irresponsible. But, yeah, no, when he had his buddies, they'd go in on some things. You could tell. Yeah, he told him some great stories, but you could tell it was authentic. And they did. They just hung out and, you know, it was special. I got to go back to the land. So there's a big parcel of land in Florida that may be owned by the. It's either in the Wyndham Rotunda, the Mulligan, you know, that fam, or it's on our side. I don't, if I know, knowing my dad, it was sold. He got rid of that. He got rid of it. He got rid of it. He took a loss on it, got rid of it. It's non-existent now. because that's, I mean, he wanted to be, we don't have, we have very few left as far as the cowboys in the business. And to me, cowboy qualifications aren't, you can't just wear the hat. It's a matter of, did you grow up around horses? Did you grow up in Texas? There's these specific things. Were you on a farm? No matter what it was, there's specific things. There's not that many. Like cowboys in a while. There's not. There's not. I tried because when I was little, you know, they wanted me to cowboy up. You know, I'm from Georgia and they're all from Texas, but they'd always make me a new leather belt and punch the hole. And I'd get new boots and I'd wear spurs to church. They really were cowboying me up as a kid. Because there's nothing cuter. Right? A little cowboy. And I wore the Garth Brooks shirts in that era, like 90s, the button and all that. So anyways, I'm coming back. I think it was Saturday night's main event. I'm coming back after WrestleMania this year, and that's my return, and I wanted to wear a black cowboy hat And I thought I get a vote I gonna get a vote because I could wear a cowboy hat i from georgia right i a rhodes i could do it yeah no no it didn work i went to the three guys i would go to for a vote all three shut down one of them adamant firm oh almost insulting shut down yeah yeah yeah so bruce wasn't the hard shutdown but it was a it was a shutdown Yeah. Dang. Yeah. Well, being from Texas, you kind of, I want to see it, but I don't know. Looking back now, it would have been a risk. We had about 30 seconds to get to the ring, hit somebody with something, and say, we're wrestling at this point because this was an NBC element. So, yeah, the hat never happened. That could have, yeah. Maybe one day. Yeah. It's never too late. Yeah. Never too late. I mean, I'd love to see the snap shirt. I mean, you're quite the dresser. I mean. I do try. Seriously. I mean, yeah. Who's your tailor, man? How many suits do you have? David Allen? No, it isn't David. I need to get a suit from David. It's a group in Roswell called Anthony Mason. And they do all the little logo on the sleeve. And your name's 55 different places. And as you've seen, I'm trying something out. It's not a cowboy hat. But we're trying these suspenders out for the pod here. I like it. We're going to go off of your viewers and listeners if they hated it. I think they're both going to love it. Then we're good. We hate it. And then, you know, it stays. Groupon Roswell does them. And that was a big thing when I left. Another thing I wanted to, I stole that more from the McMahon side and the Flair side of things was, if I'm going to be the WWE guy on these mom and pop indies, I'm going to look the part. If they're going to think like, oh, he's the guy's taking the most money and taking the most time and all. Cool. I'm going to look the part. I'm going to look very much. I'm going to try and make, even, you know, you hear about gimmick tables. Like I wouldn't do a gimmick table. And I saw that with a few others. I would, no, you can put mine in the ring. Or you can do pipe and drape, which is pretentious and all those things, but also presentation. No, it's presentation. That's all. I watched Sting do the same thing, and I'm thinking, this is presentation. And also, the most important thing to me is not the money in all this. The most important thing to me is meeting these fans who decided to come here and take a shot on me, and I'm telling them, hey, I was better than they thought, so I need to show that I am better. And the next thing you know, it just became kind of like you were talking about working the gimmick everywhere you went. After a while, it's no longer a gimmick. You just believe. You just believe. It worked. They believed. They still believe. Got to keep them believing. As much as we tell them not to believe, we still want them to believe. Here's my crazy thought. How do you guys feel about Unreal? The actual presentation and everything is wonderful. Right? From my aspect, in my end of the business i don't like it yeah and i don't you know everybody's gonna say oh my god it's an old school that's an old school guy trying to protect kayfabe look i don't care if it's 2025 it's 1990 or it's 1984 everybody understands what wrestling is 100 100 everybody knows Ain't no big veil been lifted. Yeah. Except I don't want to go to see a magician and know how he's doing everything. Yeah, to look at the ingredients there. And I understand that there's a huge part that like, oh, that's interesting. I want to do that. But there's still that aspect because you tell me. Yeah. And I'll give you my perspective. Everybody knows what we do. Yeah. But when I'm in the ring, my whole goal, my motivation is to get one person, just one person to think, wow, Undertaker just clocked him. I don't care what everybody else is doing. That right there, that was the real thing. So there's always the doubt. Yeah. Right? And again, I know there's, you know, the IWC and the kids out there, they're going to rip all that apart, and I don't really care. I love how you said IWC. Love it. Hey, this is from my daughter. That felt really cringe. It was cringe. No cap. Oh, my gosh. Yes, no cap. We just hit all the words with her. I'm going to make her watch this part, and she will. We just hit her with all the words in one sentence. Yeah. Okay, that's everything that I know all in one sentence. Skibbity. Skibbity. Skibbity. Nailed it, yeah. But, yeah, six, seven. Give me five, a pie in heaven. This is the most current podcast I've ever had. It's awful. This is just a pop myself. But anyway, that's my belief on it. I don't think we have to throw it in people's face. I think we've got too comfortable. I think we're too comfortable now in talking about our business. And I struggle on these podcasts too. Because it's hard to talk. It's hard to talk and tell stories. Without, you know, without lifting it up a little bit. But I think we've gone too far. And again, I understand. Everyone knows what it is what we do. But there's got to be a little bit of mystery. One of the things you said that I wish more people would realize, and this is next to the point, but 1984. I just, I think it was maybe it was 1987. I just watched a thing where Dusty is elbowing all of the four horsemen. And the place is losing their mind. no one was losing their mind because they thought it was dead serious and they thought it was a shoot. They were connected to the characters. I feel like there's this misunderstanding, like, no, they thought it was all. If you're watching a lot of flair, a lot of Dusty, a lot of Hogan, a lot of the guys, even if take it even back to freaking Bruno and Superstar, that's just big and fantastical in front of you. I don't think it was a suspension of disbelief that was selling the tickets. I think it was a genuine like for that's my guy. That's not my guy. I hate that guy. You know, there was this sense of it. But here's the challenge I've been presented with. And this is how I try to be positive about anything that's showing our cards is something that Sean told me a long time ago. And I heard it from you as well is you just said it in terms of making one person think, no, that was. so when I look at it I try to think what's the work under the work that's what I try to think because there's an opportunity now to tell them hey you guys do know everything but do you right and I think that's that's the thing that I'm like okay I can hang on to that because I say it all the time and we've said it once already wrestling is far more real than people think yes and now that the money is so crazy it's people are even crazier to keep that and that's the the spots you You know, oh, my gosh, the amount of ego and like just it's a beautiful thing in a way because there is a real competition that exists. And then we do something. That's very real. Yes. That's understated how real. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. To me, that's why there's two reasons why whenever it's I don't think many people do this anymore. But when people say fake, I never even use the term. the things I always tell them is what happens backstage is the most real campaign I've ever seen or been a part of and then also that dad and his son their emotions and their feelings not fake at all. They're having the best time or they're having the worst time in terms of what we're presenting them and to me that again like when I look at Unreal what I think is what's the work under the work which now I'm exposing and I have to find work under the work out of the work. But that really is a thing. Sure, guys, you're seeing it all. And to be fair, they've done a great job showing them all. But in the back of my wrestler brain is, uh-uh, I'm going to show them something they think is. Well, you'll have to. Now you have to think outside of the box. Yeah. I think that's the challenge. And there is that point now that now you have to be smarter than what the formula has been for all these decades, all these centuries of wrestling. Now you have to think outside of the box because I still think the smartest people are the easiest ones to work. Oh, yeah. Right. They care the most. They care the most. They're the most invested, and they see things in a way that, okay, this is what I have to do. Right, and they are under the belief they know us personally. Yes. And I don't mind that. I think the wrestling fans are the greatest fans on earth. I think they're far more educated than we give them credit. I think every connection I've ever made, I could never take it for granted, especially after waiting so long to connect with them. But they're also that part of it. I almost lean into the idea that you think you know me and you think you know my opponent behind the scenes in a way. Sure, yeah. I love the idea. I hate using the word, but the kayfabe is still very much real. Like, well, you know this. I mean, y'all got two of the most viral memes ever. You and the streak was in it and the guy's face. and then you the girl crying the sweet little girl obviously y'all tugged at those heart strings and that's the feeling you want even when we're watching Wrestlemania's now when Steve's glass breaks I'm like a little kid you want to still have that without knowing everything behind the curtain and I think to your point even with Unreal no one knows what we're doing but me my opponent and the referee and you know no one so as long as i can maintain that even though yeah you know and you heard somebody really knows other than me my opponent and the referee so maybe we can you know find some magic it's definitely a challenge and it's outside the box you definitely have to think outside the box at this point which is good i mean it keeps you creative and keeps you you know trying to be on living on the edge of what it is but yeah yeah i know i know i have short time with you guys I have to tell you guys both something as far as you might already know this but before we came on here and talked you guys gave me a really nice gift really really nice gift you gave me this single barrel it's from one barrel signed JD Jack Daniels and it's got your Deadman Inc. it's got a freaking it's got a tag on it that's your that was your barrel sourced I did not know that that gift was coming and now there's an imbalance No, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no You set the table at 39 when you came back and you gave me the big bottle of Pappy's I did give you a bottle of Pappy's Yeah, but it's that's signed, it's a signed thing it's everyone on the bus Matt right there, bus driver extraordinaire you're probably going to get into that a little bit We're going to get into that single barrel It's pretty smooth, man Yeah, dog's got to hunt, dude all that's going to happen. I did bring something for this moment, but we would, I just need you to know right out of the gate, it's not single barrel. I felt like coming on, on your podcast and the, it was never about drinking. It was about being together. I felt was always your style. And I feel like it's been wrongly labeled. No, it was about being a group. It was about being a team. And geez, WWE is this podcast unit is a team of all things. I don't know why I don't have mics and everyone else has mics. But you don't need them, bro. These are props. These are props. They take away from everything. They're distraction. They're not. They are real, though. No, they're real. But they're props. Like when I get nervous, I forget what I want to say or I lose what I want to say. I start messing with my mic just to give myself a few extra moments. OK, now I got it. I got my thought back. Yeah. How often are you losing your thoughts in these? Oh, all the time. Man, I might have the best question. What are you shaking your head for? I can see you peripherally shaking your head. Like, yeah. Does it happen a lot? He's fired. Wow. Oh, my God. Dang. Hey, I'm a little punchy sometimes. But, I mean, I'm not bad shape for the shape I'm in. Well, back to the point in terms of you gave me this wonderful gift. I'm that thank you. It will go to use. It will not sit. I really, really appreciate it. I had brought just a bottle of number seven because when in front of the judge, you bring the number seven. There you go. That's it. But I think there's some glasses, right? Oh, there you go. Oh, no, you're in this. Oh, no. He always takes my shots. If he's the judge, where did you fall in this courtroom pantheon? I've never taken a shot in my life. What did you say? I don't know that you ever were in a court, were you? Well, we were taken to court over Diva Dodgeball. That seems like a flesh wound there. I mean. Yeah. Did I proceed over that? You were in there. But we only were able to go in. So many cases. See, he forgot. Yeah, so many cases. Yeah, you did. But as the Divas, you know, we were just there that week. We exited as soon as we pleaded our case. This is when you were on the Diva Search and y'all came in there and you waxed. Yeah, we couldn't be in wrestler's court. We had not heard that right. Who all was the wrestlers that you... Oh, all of them. Trish, Lisa, Jazz, Gail. And you eliminated all of them playing dodgeball. All but one. Huh? I got all of them but one. Who'd you... I don't remember, but... And you went to court over this? Hmm? You went to court over this? Well, they went to court, but Paul called us in and had us talk trash. Well, I knew well enough, like, I'm not that dumb. I'm not going to really talk a lot of trash to these girls and all these people when I'm trying to get into this business. but some of those other girls were just saying the craziest stuff I kept mine pretty clean I left 7th graders playing out on the recess field to come I think I was going to have a little bit of competition then we were kicked out this is what I live with cold so I don't know what your final judgment was in the courtroom setting when I heard he was the judge I felt like I got so much more of just the terminology of the judge. Like, WrestleMania 40. I kept saying it, and nobody was popping. And then the judge will show up. You know? And I'm thinking, it means something as far as he was balancing the scales of injustice. As crazy and as deep and as meta of a pull as that was. That's what I thought. But where in the courtroom are you a lead prosecutor at this point? I'm asking you. Where do you fall? Because if he's the judge, where are you? Are you a judge? No, no. I'm definitely not a judge. Well, you're also not the bailiff. I'm not the bailiff. I'm trying to find, I want to place you in this court. I appreciate this. Yeah. I'm about to think about that. I don't know. I think you're a lead, DA. You might be the DA. I could be a DA. Yeah. I can go to DA. Yeah. Whoa. Oh, you heard it here. Get the shovels out. Wow. What does DA mean? District attorney. She's like the. I was about to say divorce attorney, but I was just joking. Oh. Oh. Oh, man. There we go. To the judge. To the judge. Cheers. And to the district attorney. And to the executioner over there. There you go. Oh, there you go. Oh, a little goggle. A goggle? Just so he knows I did it. We covered it. I didn't think you would bring whiskey and then throw it over your shoulder. Never. Which is also sometimes the problem. When you got the, we were saying, the ones who love it and want it, it's like, oh, man. And yeah, I didn't want to disrespect anybody, you know, and then you ended up disrespecting yourself, you know. What a mess. Oh, I love it. Man, hey, we really appreciate you making time. I know you're busy and, you know, you're doing this whole carry the company thing. Doing it well. Thanks for slumming with us. Yeah. You really made me feel inadequate as a podcaster. What are you talking about? This was so much more fun than part one. Are you kidding me? Part one was fun. but this is it right here. You got a tandem set up. You're uptown and we're on the other side of the tracks. We're low rent. Where's Stephette? Where's Stephette in this place? She's up there. Up, uptown. She's up in Greenwich. She's up in Greenwich. And Logan's part of it too, right? Oh, dang. Who's that? Oh, now. There it is. Get the shovels out, yo. Old LP. Logan Paul, has he been on here? You've been on his. Yeah, I helped him with some ratings once or something. Dang. Dang. and you're just an outsider. No, he was popping off. He was popping out. He called you an outsider. It was actually funny. No, it was actually pretty witty. Yeah. Because we just started the YouTube channel. Yeah. And he's like tired of all these outsiders becoming YouTubers. I popped on it. It was a pretty good. Oh, my gosh. It was a pretty good. When he did that first promo about outsiders, that was funny. You both would very much. I hate to put him over, but you like being in the room with him. Oh, he's freaking athletic, huh? Yeah, I feel like a room full of people. Sometimes we maybe take it for granted or he could be check to check type people. And he's just got a thing. And also, you know, you hear this all the time. He really doesn't have a reason. Yeah, you don't have to do it. You have to have a certain amount of passion. You don't have to do this. And just a good energy there. I think he's on the moving up. So I hope fans kind of get with it. Well, he's got the it. I mean, he's got that it factor. Yeah. Especially in this day. If you can make somebody. I don't think he even has to try. But when people dislike you to that extent. It's like we were talking about Le Coul. What a gift to have heat. Yeah. Or just make them boo. What a gift. That is a gift. And also, you know, it ain't going to last long these days. They boo long enough. They start. That's pretty cool. That's my guy right there. Yeah. It's like, all right. No, no. Yeah. No, no. Please boo. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Anyway, we really appreciate you. Thanks for the gift. That's my kind of gift right there. True story. You can come back anytime. Thank you so much. No, I couldn't come without it. Thank you. Thank you both very much. Thank you. This was fun. Thank you. And congratulations. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Number two. Double. Yeah, girl dad. Girl dad. Times two. It's a whole thing. Crazy. I feel like I so don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. Right? And Liberty's four. So you're getting into like K-pop demon hunters and a lot of like stuff that's going on with like the young girls but man she's just uh really smart too which was always a fear yeah like uh of mine because i think she's very much that's coming from brandy's side like very much very smart so i don't have much time like i gotta make my point because by the time she's in like fifth sixth grade i'm out i'm not able to follow oh it was about fourth grade for us yeah oh yeah oh man Into the current. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's really smart. She messes with me like she has the math now. And the way people can figure out math problems is different now from there's a whole new system. Sure. And math was not my strongest subject. Yeah. And so she'll have stuff and she'll say, hey, Dad, can you help me with this? Yeah. And I can hear the sarcasm in her voice as she's asking me. Or like Latin, she'll go, can you quiz me on my Latin? because I mean, you know. Yeah, she takes, they have to take Latin in her school. That's bold though. That's Latin. Like, you know, it's a dead language, you know. Yeah. But she does it just to entertain herself because she knows that I'm going to butcher it. Like, well, I mean, I butcher the English language. I was about to say, or she'll be like, imagine what I'm going to do to Latin. Yeah, it's bad. I have noticed that I'm a buddy. I'm a buddy. You know, like Brandy's mom and everything, mama, mama. But I'm just like the buddy. Yeah, yeah. And we got dropped the hammer. Oh, please. Yeah. This is such a lie. No. This is a Cody lie. This is a taker lie. He, no. I rule with an iron fist. Oh, please. I feel like that is not accurate. He even knows when she says daddy. Like, she's getting whatever she wants. She's 13. She just turned 13. And she can still go, daddy. He's like, oh, what do you want? You called me daddy. And he still gives it to her. That's amazing. Well, I do the same thing when you call me daddy. Oh, good Lord. And we're out. Thank you, Cody, for coming. There it is. Where'd we go? What happened there? Mommy? I had a great time here with mommy and daddy. Wait a minute. Oh, you called me daddy. All right, let's shut this down. Thank you.