Episode 377: The Power of Family and Staying Connected Through Adulthood with Dr. Kathy Koch

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It's time to turn those what ifs into... With Shopify Today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash RBG. Go to Shopify.com slash RBG. That's Shopify.com slash RBG. Hey, friends. Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff. And I'm David Thomas. And we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in. Dr. Kathy Cook is the founder of Celebrate Kids, Inc. and a trusted guide for parents raising kids of all ages. She offers steady encouragement in a season that often feels uncertain. With a PhD in educational psychology and reading, Dr. Kathy helps parents understand their children more clearly, communicate more effectively, respond with wisdom, intense moments, navigate differences with confidence and stay deeply connected, even as roles shift. Based in Fort Worth, Texas, Dr. Kathy is the author of nine books, including Resolve Conflict, Five to Thrive, Eight Great Smarts, Resilient Kids, and her newest book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. Y'all, this episode, I mean, from start to finish, there were so many amazing takeaways, including two questions she talked about for young adults that we feel like would be helpful for kids of any age. You all grab a pen, pull your car over, and listen to this episode. You're going to want to take notes. You're going to want to circle back to it. I'm going to listen again in the next week because it was so good. You guys enjoy this episode with our new friend, Dr. Kathy Cook. Well, Kathy, we are so delighted to finally get to meet you. I was just saying before we started that we have had your books on our shelves for a very long time. And so to finally get to intersect in person is just so fun and such a gift to us. And we are so excited to talk about your new book and really all the books because you just have so much wisdom to share with us. Well, thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here looking forward to our conversation for sure. Good. Well, we would love to start because you have been investing in kids and families for decades. And so we'd love to start with hearing a little bit about how you were first called into this work and what's kept you here. Yeah, I appreciate that. So I was a celebrated kid. So my ministry is called Celebrate Kids. I didn't come into the ministry out of brokenness trying to solve a problem, which is what a lot of people do, which is great. I come from a beautiful, multi-generational family and discovered early on in my educational career that a lot of children didn't have what I had had, hadn't really been aware of that, to be honest with you. And I just wanted to pass it on. So I was a teacher, a coach, a school board member and a professor all in public schools. Thought I would be a professor forever, loved it. And God just kept bringing me to Deuteronomy 6. And he just kept speaking to me about parents being the first and foremost, primary, most important teachers children will ever have. And yet they're under-trained. You guys know this, you know, you're trained to give birth, diaper, feed and bathe, and they send you home to raise a human, you know? That's a that's an intimidating task. And so back in the day when I was teaching, I had credibility and integrity there. And I thought, I'm going to stay in this lane, but God kept saying, no, I've equipped you and I've called you. And so that was the motivation was to really work with parents who I wanted to be the disciples and the even the evangelists and the teachers of their very own children. And what's kept me here is, man, that I guess I would say the response from the people, like, you know, we're not perfect here by any stretch of the imagination. But you know what it's like when when you see breakthrough, like when you see a family rescued from the pit they've been living in, when you see a child say, OK, wait. So I am special, like Jesus died for me. Like those are the moments when you're like, OK, I'll stay up late another night and I'm going to I'm going to make this happen. So I love it. I love it all. There's joy there, you know, giving God glory through what we do and who we are is what we're all about. And we're grateful to be in a space. We're grateful you are. Thanks. We'd love to talk a little about your new books that is specifically about young adults. And to ask you first, just what were you seeing that felt urgent or different right now? Right. No, the book is, you know, resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children. So the target audience really are the parents of adults, although I do think adult children will buy it to try to kind of go backwards and figure out what's going on with their, you know, their moms and their dads. You know, I wrote it because the family is falling apart. I can only imagine as counselors what you're hearing and what you're seeing. And it's devastating. You know, God ordained the family before he ordained the church. The family matters greatly to God. I grew up kitty corner from one set of grandparents. My dad cut a hole in the fence. I was three blocks from the other grandparents. I went to school with cousins, church with the other cousins. My brother is my best friend. Always was. I come from a family. And when you watch the family disintegrate, it's discouraging. And we just kept hearing stories. My audience has grown up. I've been in the ministry for 33 years. I've been a published author for about 20. So my audience has grown up and I keep hearing about, you know, but, but Dr. Kathy, I thought I was doing everything right. And now my kids won't talk to me or, you know, I raised my kids at the church. And we, we really felt like we were doing things right. And now they've walked away and, you know, what have I done wrong? And I was so discouraged by the level of guilt that parents are placing on themselves, which is inappropriate in most cases and wanted to, wanted to speak into that space. So a challenging book to write because the issues are really quite complex, but needed to be written. I also will tell you that, you know, I do a lot of radio and podcasting and I'm so grateful to be with you today. And I found out from some of our national radio hosts that the number one question that they're getting is from parents of adult kids. I'm, it used to be, you know, some of the rivalry, it used to be, how do I keep my toddler in bed? But the number one question that our parents are asking now is what, what's with my adult kids? Why is the culture taking them south and what can I do about it? I'm so grateful you're talking about this week. Oh, thanks. Just we have a book coming out called Capable. And one of the things we're talking about is the shift that's happening in the world. And this is one of those very things that feels most concerning to us. So, so grateful for your voice to be weighing in. And, and you kind of spoke to this, but as you're looking at all of that and where adults, adult children are today, what feels like it concerns you the most about that and what gives you the most hope? Well, my hope is in Jesus. You know, that's the A plus Sunday school answer, but let's just go there. Okay. You know, in fact, I read in this book that the whole last chapter is about hope because you can't hope in yourself and you can't hope in your kids. You know, we're falling and we're going to make mistakes and you can, but you can place your hope in God. He loves them more than you ever could or would. And he knows and he's not surprised and he's on the throne and all those things are biblical truths, but and they're real. And do we, you know, do we, do we know that in the knowing of our knowing that those are real truths? So I have hope in Jesus. I do have hope as I see families turn around. I have hope that our young adults are getting off of social media because that is one of the things that has taken them to a really dark place, many, in many cases. So, so those things are true. I'm concerned by how quickly their ears are tickled. I'm concerned by their desire to be happy all the time, which is another technology lie that we address here at the ministry. You know, they're, they're not persevering. They're not sacrificing. They're not, they don't know how to stand up. They're not good at discerning. They're not resilient. Like I'm thrilled you guys are coming out with the book you're coming out with because the lack of resiliency concerns the three of us. I've written a whole book on that, as you know. So those are the things that concern me and my hope again would be, I think I would also say to you that parents are teachable. Audience attendance is up everywhere I go because there's no shame in saying I need help. The culture is chaotic. And so, you know, 10 years ago, I think it was harder for parents to come out to events. You know, I don't want anyone to know that I'm struggling with my kid. Well, now we all know that everyone's struggling. Perhaps that's not true, but it might feel like that. And so I have hope that I think there's an increased teachability and humility among our people. It's great. We'd love to talk within this about the failure to launch phenomenon and the statistics around that being scary and disheartening. And just would love to know what do you think is being missed along the way? Hey, I really like that question. So I teach thousands of young adults every year. I'm a part of the summit ministries, faculty. So I am in front of 16 to 23 year olds on a regular basis, work for impact 360. And so I talk about this a lot with kids. And here's what I'm going to say. The failure to launch, you know, post high school, like I don't know what to do after high school is not because they're they're they're not capable of something. They're capable of so much they don't know what to do. You know, back when I was there, a nurse be a teacher. And praise God, I wanted to be a teacher. I wasn't stressed by that. And that, you know, I'm older and that's just a true statement that no one should be insulted by what I just said. It is true that there were there were limits. We didn't have the worldwide web. We didn't think we could go to Scotland to go to the university or South Africa because we loved a soccer team from there. No, you went up the road to school and you mostly went to college or you found a job. Well, now there's so many options. There's gap year and trade and tech and entrepreneurship and missions and travel. And there's just so much that's available to our kids. And our kids are multi talented. They're multi able, they're multi fascinated, they're multi curious, they're multi concerned because they've seen the world fall apart right before their eyes. And they don't know how to land because they don't want to be unhappy. And choice is hard because we've made all the choices for them far too often. And the other things that are going on if people don't know this is George Barna, who's a respected researcher, believes that most of our young adults today, our high school students and older will have six or seven careers in a lifetime, not jobs, but careers. Because they're so multi able. Another thing that's happening is probably if you don't know this about two thirds of today's high school, middle school students, at least I bet two thirds will have a job that doesn't yet exist. So we can't say what do you want to go up because it limits their perspective. No, it's like, who are you and why are you the who you are. And then there's AI kids are kids. I'm talking to maybe you guys as well. It's like, but what if AI takes that career away? And I've gone to school and I've developed a portfolio as a marketer, as an example. And then the company decides to just do it all through AI. So it's not a lack of ability. And that's what parents need to understand. We got to stop being mad at the kids. We got to stop saying, why don't you know what you're going to do when you grow up? And instead introduce them to a variety of possibilities. I love the question, what problems do you want to help solve? Hmm, because they're oriented, they're oriented to problems because they've seen the world fall apart. So what problems do you want to help solve and what people do you want to serve? Because they're oriented toward people because of social media. So I'll leave it at that. But I think, um, I think parents need to relax a bit and guide and coach. And again, go on tours, introduce your kids to options. I'm a fan of gap year. And I'm also a fan of the trades. Could we just put that on record that I've, I've talked to our, the high schools I work with to say, Hey, you've got to start celebrating the kids who want trades, you've got to stop only celebrating the college bound with the big scholarship offer, because I couldn't pass a plumbing exam to save my life. And there's nothing wrong with being a plumber, a contractor, an electrician, a carpet layer, a bricklayer or whatever. And we're going to, you know, I don't know if you guys know that 70, about 70% of our welders are going to retire in about four years. We wrap your mind around that. Yeah. Almost everything we use is welded. And so that's a great career. You can't outsource that to India. You can't outsource that to AI. You'll provide for yourself and for a family. And, and I think those become important ideas as well. And now we're going to take a little break to hear from one of our sponsors who makes this podcast possible. Okay. I'm getting ready to head to the lake for a hope town soon. And can I tell you what I am really excited about? What? My porch. It's my favorite spot and favorite view. It's basically a Wayfair showroom at this point. Now let me tell you what it looks like when we bought it. Random plastic chairs, a rug that had definitely seen some things. String lights limping along. It was a little heartbreaking. And then you and Wayfair work some magic. Exactly. 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Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com slash raising with code raising. That's bowl and branch BOLLAND branch.com slash raising code raising to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. And now back to our show. I love what you said, particularly about choices hard and we've got to give them practice making choices all along the way. So much. Great. Yeah, it's so true. Yes. Well, we talk a lot about helping kids believe they can do hard things. I'm confident that you're doing the same. Yes. So where do you see breakdowns in this idea of capability happening between the teen years and young adulthood? Well, that's a great question. You know what? It starts before that and you know that, right? Because if parents have been helicoptering their children and bulldozing the roads, the children have safe travel and smothering, you know, their kids and making all the decisions for them and not letting them experience the valley, which is where we grow up. Scripture declares that we develop faith and hope and character when we walk through difficult moments. So if our parents have young children have over parented their kids, then they become preteens and teens who are fragile, who don't want to disappoint parents because parents have made it clear that that is the job of the child. Do not disappoint me. Make me look good among my peer group. And I don't say that lightly. And I'm sure you deal with that regularly. And it's very sad that a parent would expect a child to be a performer. That's not why God gives you children. So I want to go on record to say that it starts certainly before their teen years. And then I think what happens is they become teenagers. They want that independence, right? You know, they're striving for independence. They're striving for, you know, what do other adults think? Do other adults agree with my mom and dad? And, you know, is this would this really be bad for me? And would it really, you know, be on my record forever or whatever, you know, and they're experimenting with how things work. And so they, they try things and then they may fail because again, they haven't had a lot of experience trying things. They haven't developed that comeback resilience, which is so essential for all of us. So then I think they give up. And I think there's a, I think there's a lack of hope that can settle in with that, with that age group and a, and a fear again of disappointing themselves in their appearance. And if they don't have a lot of experience, you know, doing hard things and they don't do hard things well, then they decide they're stupid. And that's devastating. And I wrote a whole book on that, as you know, and they're not stupid. They're inexperienced and maybe they were foolish and maybe they, you know, didn't have a good decision-making strategy, but stupid. No, that's, it's not a good, not a good word at all to assign to anyone, certainly not yourself. So, yeah. And, you know, another thing that happens, what do you guys think? Like they don't know how to ask for help, right? Like if they've, if everybody's done everything for them and they're not allowed to admit before they're helped that they need help, then, hey, mommy, could you help me or going up to a professor or a teacher or an employer and saying, I am so sorry, but I was distracted and I don't remember what you wanted me to do next. They don't know how to do that. There's a pride in them and a fear in them that they can't be wrong. And so if you can't ask for help, then you're, you're lost as well. So I, I could ramble more, but you guys, you guys see those things as well? So good. Yes. We have a chapter in the new book exactly about asking for help because we're seeing something, but I love how you put it. That's so true. If we're jumping in before they ask, they never learn to ask. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Let's go back a bit. Kathy, you have offered great wisdom to the conversation around technology and the role of screens. Thanks. We love to ask you just, how would you say screens during the teen years are shaping what you're seeing in young adults and adults now? Yes. Oh my goodness. How long do we have? You know, they're, well, there's so much evidence that screen use and social media in general, um, lead to depression, anxiety, stress, and even the suicidal ideology. And yet the very place they go when they're stressed is back to the screen. Um, they don't have good coping strategies for when they're feeling a bit off. Um, they are used to gaming and everything is fun. Everything is about them. There's nothing on our phones. We don't want on our phones. So we're very much in control. We believe the lie that we can be happy all the time. Um, I've asked young adults, how many of you ex out of games you might lose. So now I have only, you know, one or two things. I'm a jigsaw puzzle. I like jigsaw puzzles. So I have a jigsaw puzzle app. I get a free jigsaw puzzle every day on my phone and I'll start to do it. And then I don't like it. And I ex out. It's too hard. I'm not, why am I doing this? I don't even like the picture, you know, and I've asked kids, you know, how many of you have figured out you can't win. So therefore you ex out and most of the hands go up. And then I say, how many of you have dropped a college course after one bad quiz grade? And then you could hear a pin drop. So now I don't know about you guys. And I'm not saying that that's bad. Maybe that was the right thing to do. Maybe there was evidence that this was not a good time for you to take that course, but I think back in my day, I studied harder. And this is not about me, but I, and right, or you went, you went to the professor and you said, man, I thought I had it, but I don't, what am I missing here? But today's young people are training themselves to quit early. They're not persevering. Things need to be entertaining and about them. And all of that, they are, uh, there's a loneliness. As you know, we could talk for hours about this and their loneliness, by the way, did not start with the pandemic. It started with technology where they depend upon themselves to meet their needs when God is the one who meets needs. So again, there's just a, there's a cycle here, um, that becomes very damaging. Um, isolation, expecting easy answers, um, not thinking, you know, rather than thinking things through, you know, which restaurant is in the area that I've been to before, they go to their map and say what restaurants are near me. Like they don't, they, they don't use the brain that God gave them in ways that would again instruct them and encourage them. Those, those are rambling thoughts. Um, it's, it is real. I will say though, there is evidence that is teaching us that they are getting off the screens. There are more and more young people who are discovering there is more to life. This is the biggest problem, my opinion, is they don't know what they don't know. They don't know how good a real relationship with eye contact is, because they haven't had enough of them. They don't know how rich a day at the park can be if they've never been to the park for a day. Right. So they don't know what they could have. And so they're satisfied by FaceTime and Marco Polo and texting and X and all these things I wish they weren't on at all. And as they get it off of it and they're discovering how life could really work, I think I'm being encouraged by that. That's great to hear. Cool. Well, specifically, we'd love to also know what ways you see screens interfere with the development of resilience, identity and real world problem solving. Yeah, those are good questions. That's a good question too. So back to what I was saying, I think technology lets us all believe everything should be easy. So resiliency is coming back from defeat. Resiliency is rising up out of failure. It's walking out of the valley. Resiliency is trying again. And technology has made things easy. Now praise God, like I use technology all the time. We're using it right now or we couldn't be doing this interview. There's nothing wrong with technology. Sadly, though, the younger you are, when you start to use it, the more your brain is developed to believe that that's how the world works. And this is where the problem becomes. So the fact that, you know, resiliency requires effort, resiliency requires diligence and perseverance, teachability and humility. And yet technology is saying, hey, you can do it on your own. You don't need anybody and everything should be easy. Just click the mouse. Just look for the underlying squiggly, you know, look for the squiggly underline and you'll know which word is misspelled. So they don't have to think. And so that's a dangerous thing, quitting easy. Real world problem solving again. And now I did say just a few minutes ago that they are oriented toward problem solving because they've seen the world fall apart right before their eyes. And it's a concern because before they're developmentally ready to understand it, they're watching things that are really challenging, war. Now they're also watching, you know, a rocket go to the moon. I mean, it's these are amazing days in which we're living. Are we talking about, you know, the good things and the good things that are going on? What's interesting though, about technology. Is that it's, it's problems about me. Most of our kids are researching problems that are relevant to them. So they become again, very self-centered, very self-focused where, you know, I've written a book about character and other centeredness is in the, the baker's dozen, the top 13 carriage qualities would be respect for others and being other centered, but technology draws us, you know, into ourselves. We fall into our screen and now I only want to solve the problems that affect me. And so I don't care about my neighbor. I don't even know my neighbor. And that of course is really damaging. And then the identity question, you guys, such a, such a core issue. I can only imagine what you experience there when you listen to the individual stories, um, identity, you know, who am I identity controls behavior, uh, who I think I am is who I will be identity is just massive, so important. And what I see happening with technology and social media again, in particular, would be a popularity and a competition. They're trying to be what they see, which is cool, which is popularity. How many likes do you have? How many, how many views did you real get? Those are real questions. You know, we look at that too. I'm not immune to that. I have a new book that just launched that we're talking about here. And so yeah, you look at the numbers on, on a retail site and, and there's nothing horribly wrong with that. But again, those of us who are older have a more developed sense of, of what is most important. So I'm concerned about, uh, the, the popularity wanting to be cool, wanting to be known. I mean, and that's significant. We need to be known. God created us known. So we strive to be known, but to strive for that in a popularity on social media becomes a very damaging perspective. And then the competition, right? Where they feel good until somebody else has another view on a real, they feel good until they see that somebody else looks cuter than them that day. So that the popularity in the competition, which we didn't grow up with, um, not to that same extent is damaging their soul, I think in real ways. And now a quick break to hear from one of our incredible sponsors who make the podcast available. Have you ever realized how much of your life you spend on a mattress and then question all your life choices? Because that was me at the lake. I did not realize how bad my old mattress had gotten until the new Casper arrived. Was it that bad? It belonged to the previous owner and had too many miles on it, but then I upgraded to Casper and it completely revolutionized my sleep. It's the perfect balance of firmness and softness. I'm genuinely sleeping better than ever. Meanwhile, I learned something about myself on book tour. Uh-oh. I am a pillow snob. We stayed in 10 different hotels, 10 different pillows, and I realized I have standards now, terrible, lumpy, overstuffed, understuffed. I miss my Casper pillow deeply. 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Quince.com slash RBG. And now back to the show. Okay, we'd love to ask you one more question about technology because you have so much wisdom in this space. If you could sit down with parents of teenagers today, what are two to three boundaries or rhythm, strengths that matter the most? That's so good. Well, this won't surprise anybody who's been following along and that is that get devices out of bedrooms. Most of the dangerous things happen in the dark and most kids who stumble on pornography as an example, they stumble on it. They didn't mean to find it. They stumbled. But if they stumble on it in their bedroom all alone, then they can stay there and they don't immediately turn to dad with a shocked look on their face and, you know, get his get his help. So devices out of the bedroom, they shouldn't have charging stations in their bedrooms. They shouldn't be allowed to sleep with their phone, buy them an alarm clock. They should not go to bed scrolling and wake up scrolling. So again, out of the bedroom, it just has to be. And then, but then parents have to do it too. This is what the reason a reason that kids are struggling is that parents aren't willing to sacrifice their rhythm. You know, if, because if you use the 16 year old's tell me all the time, I'm not going to do it. If my mom won't do it. It's a hypocrisy. I'm not getting off my phone at the dinner table. Dad's on his. I don't blame them for saying that. And so we have to make sacrifices too. So maybe the, maybe I should also say that one of the boundaries that you place is a boundary on yourself, but I'd say bedrooms. I say sleep. I don't know if you guys have researched lately, but the, our preteens and our teens are not sleeping nearly enough. And you die when you don't sleep enough. You have car accidents. You make foolish decisions. You don't study well. You, you decrease your, your potential in the future. So we've, we've got to help our kids sleep, which means that we watch their rhythm and we, again, we, we get devices out of their hands so that they can have a better night's sleep. And then another boundary that I'm big on is you pay attention to the people in the room, not to the people not in the room. So you have people over, you don't have your phone in your hand, or let's say that you've invited three or four friends over for a movie night and two have arrived and one hasn't. You're allowed to have your phone in your hand until you hear from the third person, either that he's running late or he's on his way. But as soon as you know that he's on his way or he's in the door, then you, you put that on silent and you put it in a basket and you pay attention to the people in the room and you don't think about the people who didn't come. That, that's good for us too. I want to circle back to what we were talking about in the beginning. And will you say the name of your book one more time so everybody can hear it? Resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children, strategies and conversations that work. Oh, I love it. And, and for the parent, knowing that our audience is mostly parents, for the parent who's listening, who has conflict with their parents, who is stuck in a relationship where they don't feel connected, they're not sure they feel safe to want to connect. They're, they're isolated, isolating in this season. What would you say to build a bridge back? What would you say to them that could help them take the first step? Oh, it's a great question. So hard. Again, we have to have hope. We can't give up. Um, we have to, we have to want to love. And I, and I say that like it, I don't want them to form a relationship because everybody else has one. It needs to be, I love my kid. This is my kid. I'm an imperfect parent for an imperfect kid and I want to know my kid. And we communicate the desire of our heart would be to have communion and have, uh, communication, I think becomes important. I think we look for small steps on some of the parents that I've interviewed are expecting overnight, you know, transition. That's not, most likely not going to happen. So look for small steps. I think we, we need to be present in the room. Um, maybe we go to dinner and we don't talk a lot, but we're at least at dinner. Um, we, we don't isolate at our own home if they're still living with you. And if they're not with you, you, you ask as often and as well as you can to, to meet, to even to go for a walk in the park. A lot of kids don't like, um, the dinner table or the restaurant table cause you have to stare at each other. Um, they'd rather talk in the dark because they don't want to look at your face when they make you mad. They'd rather drive because they can't make eye contact. They'd rather go for a walk. All those things, which can, you know, are good quote unquote counseling techniques. I think, um, we also celebrate the good in the past. I think we, we don't romanticize the past. A lot of parents are guilty of, oh, everything used to be just fine. No, that's not true. You, you probably always had cycles, right? They're probably when they were 16 and they experimented, you know, you were frustrated for a six month period. And when they were 11 and you were trying to figure out, you know, there were, there were seasons when you parented, when it was challenging, but now you're like, everything used to be just fine. Well, be careful of believing the lie because that, you know, that puts a lot of strain on the relationship as well. So don't romanticize the past, but, but also celebrate what was good and, uh, keep memories alive. I think memories build family memories add value. So talk about your favorite Thanksgiving. Talk about the first time that your kid jumped off a diving board. Talk about when you went to Disney and, and they experienced all of that for the first time or, you know, when they met their, their sister and, and the love that they had or whatever. But I think keeping memories alive is an important part of coming back, back home, if you will. Um, I think asking questions, you know, how can I help? You know, if I, if I've done something, I can't change. If you don't help me understand what I've done. I mean, I think again, having those hard conversations is something that the three of us would agree with. And, and yet I would recognize that that isn't easy. Um, I think we've got to be careful of assumptions, careful of expectations. And we've got to try to be clear communicators as much as we possibly can. And we also put our hope in God. I think parents look back with today's wisdom and judge themselves very harshly. And that's not right. Most of you who are listening to us and thank you for listening, most of you did the right, most of you did the right thing. Most of you did what you thought was right when you did it. Now you're saying, Oh, how could I have been so stupid? You were not stupid. You didn't know what you know now. How many more Bible verses have you read? How many more prayers have you prayed? How many more parenting books have you read? How many more counseling sessions have you attended? So now you know more and now you look back and you feel like, oh, I just, if only be careful of the if onlys, you did what you knew how to do. Now you go forward knowing what you know. And you, you say to your kid, Hey, you're the guinea pig. You've always been our guinea pig. You know, and we did what we thought was right. And we're so sad to know that you felt that it was not right. Let's talk about it. Can we move forward? That would be the energy that I would want. It would be, can we, how can we move forward? I appreciate the question, you guys, it's hard. But I pray that what I said is, is perhaps giving people hope. Well, we're so grateful for your all your work at the new book. Yes. And speaking of that, will you tell folks where they can find not just the new book, but all the great things you're offered in the world? Yeah, thanks so much, you guys. So our website is celebratekids.com. And we have a podcast that's daily and you can find that at the, well, on our website, we post every podcast, but also the celebrate kids with Dr. Kathy podcast channel. And all of my books around our website were also on Facebook and Instagram at celebratekidsink. So again, celebratekids.com. I've written nine, nine books and it would be phenomenal if people would choose to check them out and appreciate what you're doing. Appreciate the chance to be with you and introduce your audience to the work that I'm doing. Thank you. Thank you so much. It is. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible. Chris Sterrett, our engineer, our management team at KCH. And we are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A. And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing, all the things. We are grateful for you and cheering you on always. Right now, a guide dog puppy is taking her very first steps. One day she'll help someone with sight loss live a full and independent life. Find the crossing best. Good girl. When you sponsor a puppy with guide dogs, you're there for it all. Her wobbly walks, her first harness. The life changing partnership. It's more than a donation. It's the start of a life changing story. Search, sponsor a guide dog puppy and be part of a story you'll be proud to share. Guide dogs. When life is hectic, energy ups and downs are all you need. 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