Part Two: He Actually Died: What He Saw on the Other Side of the White Light, from the Life Review to Meeting Jesus to the Truth About Why Earth Is the Hardest Place to Incarnate

Hi, I'm Mya Mielek. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to part two of our conversation with John J. Davis. Absolutely one of the most unusual stories we have ever heard, and we've heard a lot. John was 21 years old when he had an adverse reaction to anesthesia during a surgery and ended up dead for seven minutes during which time he had an unbelievable encounter with a spirit guide, he saw a life review, he saw what happens to our souls on the other side and he came back with a message that we're going to reveal in this part of our conversation with John J. Davis. We touch on his understanding of God and the love that God has for humanity, as well as how life reviews help the soul evolve. He also met Jesus in a meadow and the interaction sent him back to the hospital and the interaction sent him back to Earth with a mission that he will share. Please enjoy part two of our conversation with John J. Davis. Break it down. So here's the meadow part now. So we leave the castle and he takes me to the most perfect, beautiful meadow I have ever seen. They were rolling green hills, the sun was out, the clouds were clouding the sky, and there were all these wildflowers, and then my guide, Alan, left. And I thought I was standing in this meadow by myself. So I go like this, I turn around to look at the rest of the meadow, and there's a gentleman standing right in front of me. He had a white golden gown on and he had a golden sash around his waist and colored sandals that laced up his calves all the way to his knees. And he didn't tell me who he was, but I knew this was the being that we know is Jesus. When I looked at his face, he was different than everybody else I saw. Sorry, I thought you were going to say he was different than every painter in history who's like, I got blonde hair and blue eyes. Also, he's six feet tall when actual Jesus was probably like five, two, and very, very dark, yes. Yep, exactly. Well, that's the part. When I went to look at his face, there was all this light that was coming. It looked like lightning coming out of his face. There was so much light that I couldn't see what he looked like. But he spoke to me and he said... What did his voice sound like? It just sounded deep and authoritarian. But that's all I know. And I think it's because of what he said to me. He said, you must tell them there is no death. And that very second when he said that, boom, I woke right back up in the operating room. What? Yeah. You must tell them there is no death. And what was so interesting about that is it was the way that he said it. He didn't say, you know what, John, when you have time, when you're not busy, when it's convenient for you, would you share, tell people what we shared with you? He didn't say it that way. You must tell them there is no death. And so that's what I mean. So your eyes pop open. What happens next? The first thing that I said to everyone who was looking at me when I opened up my eyes, I said, what just happened? You were supposed to say there is no death, John. You've already started on the wrong foot. Exactly. I already screwed up from the beginning. So I said, what just happened thinking that they knew what happened? And they said, we lost you. I said, what, what do you mean? They said, you actually died. And I thought, that's insane. I said, how long was I dead? They said seven minutes. But it felt like hours. Yes, exactly. I said, what happened? But it felt like hours. Yes, exactly. And I could not, I had, my mind was so blown away. Did you say anything to anyone or you kind of like go into recovery, meaning they, you know, finish discharging you? When did you tell the first person what you experienced? I told my mom on the way home. I couldn't have the surgery. They, they had to postpone it and we had to reschedule it. So my mom drives me back home. I told her immediately what had happened. And the only book that was out like this back in 1987. Do you remember Raymond Moody? Of course we've spoken to him here. Yeah. Oh, excellent. He, he wrote that book called life after life. And my mom gave me that book and I read the whole thing that day. And that's when I realized, oh my gosh, I saw what I've always been taught to be called heaven. I was in heaven. They don't call it that. They call it the other side. I don't, I don't know why, but they don't, they don't call it. Well, most of them call it home. They just call it home. But Christianity knows it is heaven. So I read the whole book and that's when I realized that I had an experience that what we now call an NDE, but there was no terminology for that back in 1987. And I went through a horrible, horrible depression for about two months after this. Because I did not want to be here. I wanted to be where I was. I never wanted to leave there. I wanted to go back and stay there. I even thought about committing suicide because I didn't want to be here. Well, then I began to realize that the kind of hope that that experience gave me, it wasn't for me. It was for me to share it with others so that people don't have to be afraid of dying. There is such a fear of death that we don't even talk about it in our culture. But it's going to be the happiest day any of us ever know, because we get to go home again. And all the painful things, all the trauma, all the hurt that you've gone through in your lifetime. It's all gone when you get back. And it's replaced with learning and knowledge and who you became. And something I like to tell people is that in our culture, we are raised to believe that your success is based on what you have. What did you get in your life? Did you get the big house? Do you have the expensive car? Did you have the million dollar 401K? None of those things matter on the other side. Because to them, success is based on who did you help in your lifetime? Who did you become? Did you live a kind life? Did you try to make a difference? Those are the things that matter. I want to give what might be a skeptical read of the descriptions that you gave. Because the fact is, we don't know anything about you at 21. We don't know anything about what you experienced. The take that some people might have, and this would fit in a logical sense. If you were to tell me, John, like I was a 21 year old who loved Greek and Roman architecture. I was fascinated with medieval castles. These were the things that I enjoyed to study and learn about. I loved libraries. Then we might say that the experience you had, right, took all of the things that were in your brain, things that had been coded, right? And they transposed them onto your experience. Elizabeth Crone talked about she loves gardening. She felt that her experience of heaven was a garden, but that for other people it might not be a garden. That our personal makeup, our experiences, what's been encoded, let's say, on this planet, in this incarnation, that might be placed into our NDE. So can you describe for us, were there elements of things that you knew about and were interested in that played into your NDE? Or do you believe that some of the images and imagery that you saw and experienced are those universal images that you believe many people might have if they have an NDE? My initial thought when all of this happened was this must have been some kind of a dream or some kind of a hallucination. But then even in my life now, I don't remember my dreams. I rarely remember what I dreamed about. I've never had hallucinations. I wasn't on any kind of medication back then. And I hadn't even gone to college yet. I didn't go to college until I was 29. I had never studied anything about Greek or Roman architecture. I didn't know anything about art history. I didn't know anything about libraries or any of the stuff that they showed me. It was all, everything was so new to me. I was like, oh my gosh, this stuff is really real. It was absolutely extraordinary. And every single time I share my story, I feel like I'm right back there again. And it's that same wonder, that same feeling like we mentioned earlier about that Harry Potter feeling, that everything is magical. It's absolutely the most extraordinary place I have ever been. Well, my next question, and I don't mean to have like a death match against NDEers, but when some people have an NDE, their experience is obviously different from yours. And many of them have very elaborate and very fleshed out images of where you go and what the life review is like and the life planning. The elements are, I mean, I would say close to identical, right, that we see statistically, and we've gotten to speak to Jim Tucker and Bruce Grayson, you know, all these people who study and catalog these things from a clinical perspective. So I'm curious what your take is. And like I said, I'm not asking you to go head to head with other NDEers, but is your personal belief that this place, right, this place that you went, is that the place that we go, or was that your experience? It's one of the places we go. The places that they took me to, everybody at some point goes there. It's almost like the hub of a city. I got the impression like, wherever I was was like a planet, this huge, enormous planet. And he only took me to one particular part of it. I only saw a small part of the other side. But it's something that, if it was just me in all these buildings, I would think, okay, this must be something that I am creating somehow. But there were thousands of people everywhere, all in these buildings. All these people were studying and visiting and so many of these buildings, everybody seems to utilize. Miami B.A.L.X. Breakdown is supported by Array. I literally remember where I was standing when I found my first gray hair. I was horrified. Horrified. I was only in my 30s and I felt so old. At first, I did what everybody tries to do. I pulled it out thinking it would never come back. Well, it came back and guess what? It brought friends. And of course, gray hair feels like coarser. It's frizzier compared to the rest of me. And I've dyed these hairs away. I've tried to hide them. But what if you didn't have to hide your grays? You could actually slow them down, keep your natural color longer, and get thicker, fuller, shinier hair in the process. Well, that's what Array does. There's only one gene that causes gray and it accounts for about 30% of why we go gray. So 70% has nothing to do with genetics. 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What is your clinical explanation that you've been given? Meaning, had you coded, was there no pulse? What actually went on in those seven minutes as far as you know? All I know is that they told me they had the paddles. They were using paddles on my chest. That's all I know. I don't know if they were, they may have told me other things, but I don't remember. That's enough. You were dead, my friend. And I know they had to do it more than once, but I don't remember how many times they had to do it. I want you to, as best as you can, so you're very depressed when you come back. What was your notion, especially with the religious framework that you had? There are so many aspects of your story that, again, do not fit into traditional Judeo-Christian storytelling. It's not part of, let's say, Catholicism. When you came back, did you feel like, guess what, Mom? I also met Jesus. Did you have a Catholic or a Christian kind of grounding, or did your definition of kind of existence have to expand at that point? It was really weird because when I was standing there in front of Jesus, I didn't get any kind of impression from him that there's only one religion. It was more like every religion has truth to it, but not every religion has all the truth. And when I was over there on the other side, there was no feeling of, this is where Catholics are, or this is what Islam believes, or this is... It was almost like religion was invented by humanity, religion wasn't invented by God. On the other side, I think this is the reason that I had such a hard time when I got back, because on the other side, when we're there, we can feel God. We can absolutely feel how much God loves you. You mentioned you have kids. Your love for your kids, you love them so much, it's absolutely unconditional. That's what it's like when we feel God's love. It's the most extraordinary feeling that you never want to be away from. And when you come into a place like Earth, it's like being in a battle, and you're in a foxhole without a radio, you feel cut off. And I wanted to have that feeling again. I never wanted to be away from that feeling. And then I realized that, alright John, they told you what you're supposed to do with your life. You're supposed to tell people it wasn't for me, it's nothing to do with me. It's all about the message. That's what has to get out. And that's what I've been doing ever since, just trying to share my story. Have you found Nina? Have you found Nina? I don't know. I have no idea. My wife and I have talked about that before, and we don't know. I don't know if the soulmate comes into every lifetime with us. I know that they can. I just don't know how often that they do. I don't know. We also don't know if she could be Nina by another name. We don't know. Yeah, exactly. Have you found ways in this lifetime to feel more of that connection with the Divine? The biggest connection for me is when people reach out to me, they watch a podcast I was on, or they go to my website and they read about my experience. I think a lot of people feel like I am a conduit for them to know that their loved ones aren't gone. That there really is a place. There's a place that is more beautiful than I could ever explain. I don't have the language to explain how beautiful it really is over there. And the greatest privilege of my life has been to tell people that your loved one isn't gone. They just went home. And when your lifetime is finished, you're going to be reunited with them. There's a woman that just called me the other day, and she lost her daughter, Hannah, when she was only 31 years old. And she just wanted to know that what I experienced was real, and that is her daughter still going to be there? Is her daughter okay? And I said, I can absolutely tell you that she's better than okay. She's happy. She's free of pain. She's got the love of God, all of her friends, family members are there with her. And that when her mom passes, she'll be with her again. And it'll be like they never left. And that has been the greatest privilege of my life to be able to tell people that. I don't mean to be such a downer, but this is something I often ask, people who've had experiences like you. What about people who have negative experiences here and do not want to see the people that have gone on before them? They don't have to. Right. I'm curious if there's some sort of reckoning and deeper understanding on the other side. The only thing that was explained to me was if that person didn't know how their actions affected others, they'll learn that in the Life Review. And it's almost like that person has their aha moment like, oh my gosh, I never knew that. And that's what the Life Review is for. Because God, I always believed that there has to be a hell, that God created a hell. He never did. There is no hell. Hell was created by mankind. God couldn't throw away his children any more than any of us could throw away our own children. But God knows that, and it's kind of like, why does God allow evil to exist when he could just simply wipe it out? And the reason is because when he created every single one of us, he gave us all free will. And he knew that some souls might choose a darker path and not follow the path of light. But he also knows that the dark side can never win because there's no greater power than God. And at some point, he knows all those souls will choose the right side. And when they have their Life Review, that's when they realize, oh my gosh, you can't hurt people. You can't murder people. Next question. On which date do you tell your wife what happened to you? Is that like a first date conversation? It was funny. I met her in church, and this was after I had my NDE. And it was about, I would say probably maybe three months after that that I told her what had happened. She had, she has a dream girl. Oh, you met her young. Yeah. Yeah. She, her whole life, she kept a dream journal. And it's like this thick of all of her dreams. And so she had a good understanding and a good appreciation for what I went through. She had read some different books herself about people's experiences, what they call paranormal experiences. So we actually made a pretty good fit together. What was it like to start telling people when did you realize all this information and like, what was the first time you shared it after the NDE or the actual being done? Early on I learned that when I told my story, people were really skeptical. They, I was only 21. They're like, how much does a 21 year old kid know about dying? Seven minutes worth. Yeah. There was, there was a lot of skepticism and I didn't have a large platform. I didn't have anything back then. Did you tell your parents first? Like what was, what was your- He told his mom on the drive home. And she seemed cool with it. My mother would be like, stop with that nonsense. Yeah. Yeah. My mom was really, she was like, oh my gosh, tell me everything. That's a good mom. So I, she was my first, the first person I told. And all the years later, I would tell people at work, I would, I did a lot of volunteer work for hospice and I would, I would tell people who were passing. Do you want to, and I would say there's something you might want to, want to hear. Would you like to talk about my near-death experience? And they were like, sure. And that's when I would tell them every single thing that happened. Is that why you chose to volunteer in hospice? Yeah. That was exactly why. Because I know people were waiting- They were waiting on- They were waiting on- Out of a podcast, computers don't exist, but the biggest platform- Exactly. I can find is people literally about to die. Exactly. That, that's exactly it. We spoke to a death doula and she talks about the shared death experience and people who are about to pass seeing loved ones coming across the bridge to help them be guided over. Yes. Exactly. That happens all the time. And I found out that nobody ever dies alone. The other side always sends someone to get us. So all those people that had to be quarantined and on ventilators during the pandemic, none of them died alone. I've had so many people that have reached out to me and said that they felt so guilty because they couldn't be there with them. And I tell them that it's okay. They have someone that came to get them. That passes alone. What do you believe is God? What do you understand God is? And is that the creator of all the life across the universe? Or is it just for our earth and each other place where souls go have their own version of a God that's, you know, the manager of that Walmart? That's something I've thought about too a lot. I've thought about that a lot. The best way that I can describe God is it's the most extraordinary feeling of love you have ever experienced. It's like holding your child the first time your baby smiles at you. That feeling, that's, you feel God's love. God is just love. He's a, I don't even know how to describe him. He's like our father, our creator who created all of us to share all of his experiences with. But I don't know, I don't know if the person that we know is Jesus. I don't know if that was God. My wife said that she thinks Jesus is the part of God that interacts with us. But I don't, I don't, I don't really know. And the other thing, your question, Jonathan, is so good because I have thought about that before too. If there are trillions, virtually trillions of other worlds, does every single world have its own other side? Or is there just, is the building that I was standing in that orientation building, is that where all of us come? All of us come to this, the same place that I don't know. I wish I did, I just don't know. I'm going to posit a bet that they're like regional managers doing a fantastic job. It's like severance. On their own little pocket of the cosmos. But it feels like a big job to create all the souls for each one of those areas. My and Bealex Breakdown is supported by, by optimizers. Did you know there's one phase of sleep that many people don't get enough of? This one phase of sleep is closely linked with how refreshed you feel the next day. Physical recovery, energy levels, how balanced your body feels overall. I'm talking about deep sleep. When deep sleep is lacking, people often notice things like low energy, poor recovery, stronger cravings, even when they feel like they're doing all the right things. Why don't most people get enough of this incredibly important phase of sleep? 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Take your personal data back with Incogni, head to incogni.com. Use the code MIAM, M-A-Y-I-M to get 60% off an annual plan. That's code MIAM at incogni.com slash MIAM. How old are your kids? 23 and 22. Oh, wow. You have big kids. So what can you tell us about sort of what it's been like, you know, being a parent while having this experience and, you know, shepherding young souls through their, you know, the stage of life they were when you died and came back? You know, the one thing that has been something that I've learned the most is that I know, I love my kids to death, just like all of us do. But I had to learn that they're not mine. They're gods. They're from God, just like all of us. And I am just simply here as they're steward. And I know that each one of them came here for their own experiences, their own reasons for being here. And not necessarily believing all the same things that I believe. I've told them what my experience was like. But I think that they're at the age where they haven't had a lot of their own experiences like that. So they really, they're very science minded. So they haven't had a lot of mystical experiences of their own yet. So they're kind of like, they want to wait and see, but they're very open to everything I've told them. They don't disbelieve it or disagree with it. They just tell me that they don't know for sure. They don't have their own experiences yet. How do you integrate the knowledge and the experience that you had then and that you still have because it's been embedded in you with operating in like the real world, paying bills, dealing with the frustrations that this life naturally has? How do you hold these two realities? That's a really good question. Back in 1987, after this whole experience, I didn't know how I was going to do that. It was like, I had to learn how to walk in both worlds because on one sense, I didn't want to be here. I don't want to go through all the stuff we go through here. I want to be back on the other side again. Then I had to realize that you were given something that you're supposed to share because it wasn't about you. It was about the message. You have to share the message. I just had to learn to walk on both sides. Kind of like I was on one side of the veil and also on the other side of the veil. I had to learn that you can still have a lifetime where you can learn and experience and grow here on Earth and still have all the knowledge on the other side because my job was to share with people not to be afraid of dying. There's nothing to be afraid of. It's how we get back home again. I just had to realize that, okay, I'm on Earth. I'm here for as long as I'm supposed to be here. I'm also a spiritual being. I know about the other side and that will come. I'll get to go back at my time when my time comes. For the time being, I'm supposed to share what they showed me to give people the kind of hope that it has always given me all these years. It doesn't sound crazy at all. Not just because we talk to a lot of people who have experienced things of this realm, but I'm mostly astounded by the level of detail. Meaning the level of downloading of information is the only way to describe it because time does not fit into the seven minutes that we know that you were dead. It's so fascinating and we're so grateful that you shared your story with us. I know you do hypnotherapy with people. Many people come back from NDE's and they have acquired special abilities, you know, synesthesia or precognitive things or seeing auras. You don't have those things. You haven't reported them, but I wonder with this gift that you have, that you get to share, how does that kind of factor into the hypnotherapy that you do with people? Yeah, it's funny. People have asked me that before too. I feel like I kind of got gypped because I didn't come back with anything. I don't have any special abilities. I can't hear my guy. I still talk to him all the time. I just can't hear him. But I think what they gave me was the memory because if this had happened to me and they didn't give me any memory abilities, I wouldn't have remembered hardly any of that experience. But I remember every single detail and I think that's because I'm supposed to share it all. But I think that's the only thing I really came back with was I've got this memory now. It was like it happened yesterday. That's how clear it still is. But it's interesting because I was so skeptical. I'm usually a really skeptical person and this is what I did. After my NDE about two months later, I made an appointment with a hypnotherapist and I told her, I said, I want to see if past lifetimes are real. Because I had this experience where they showed me three lifetimes and the way that I was raised previous lifetimes isn't a thing. So I go to see her and sure enough, I saw three different lifetimes and that's when I was a real believer. I'm like, oh my gosh, it is real. So you were able to get back there? Yeah, I got to, I saw three different lifetimes and that's when I realized, oh my gosh, my whole experience really was real. The whole thing was real. And what I do now is I since 1989, when I got my first certification, I've just been doing hypnosis with people all the time. You know, there are things that we know about memory, right? There's things that we know about implicit memory. There's things we know about procedural memory. We talk about, you know, if you get back on a bike, you can usually remember how to ride a bike or sometimes I'll be trying to play a song on the piano and I get stuck. And I can't think of what to do next. But if I start again, the kind of the body memory that muscle memory will take over and I can play the whole song, right? We know that there are different kinds of memory and the kind of memory that you're talking about that people who have NDEs experience, it's almost like it's operating through a different component than the normal memory system that we use to learn the alphabet, learn how to play a song, learn, you know, how to ride a bicycle. This kind of memory that you're describing, it often happens when people have profound psychedelic experiences or other transcendental experiences, but it's as if there's a different part, right, of the brain of this whole system that is coding this information in a way that is much more salient, much more reliable, really, it feels more real, it feels more tangible, and it doesn't get lost the way other memories seem to. Yeah, because I, my memory has never faded at all from this experience. Like, I couldn't even tell you what I did last summer or what I, even what I had for dinner last night. Yeah, it's a totally different, like, yeah, whatever part of your brain is holding this and experience that it's clearly it doesn't even need you to be alive for you to have those memories. Yeah, exactly. Here's a final question. We also speak to people who, as Maya mentioned, have extrasensory ability. And I think more so than ever before, the topic of precognition, remote viewing, telepathy have come back into the popular vernacular. People are really, really curious. I am very interested in intuition and talk a lot about thinking that we have extrasensors. Because were you shown anything about extrasensory ability as it relates to people on this plane and this space being able to increase their capacity here on Earth? No, not really. The one thing I can tell you that was what I thought it was paranormal is, do you remember when I was in that library, when they were showing me the war that was going on? Yeah. I didn't say out loud to Alan that that's impossible. We didn't have video recordings back then. I said that in my mind, but he heard that. And I don't know how he heard that. There is some kind of a component of thought that exists over there that doesn't exist here. And it's instantaneous. Yeah. I mean, if Alan can exist as your spirit guide, he can also hear your thoughts. I had one other thing that occurred to me while you were talking before when you were describing all the people on the other side doing their best stuff. Do they interact with people on this plane? We hear so much about people who are either getting communication from dead relatives. We also hear about people who are stuck in between worlds. Does that committee have to go like fish people out of the in between world and help guide them back? I don't know. I do know that people on the other side, they can hear us when we talk to them. Like both of my parents have passed and I know that when I talk to them when I'm driving, they can hear that. And I don't understand how that's possible. They're so busy having fun. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of us get communication from them through our dreams. And that's why my wife, my wife has such amazing dreams because she's kept this dream journal for so many years that she gets a lot of information from dreams. I'll tell you something really interesting. She had a dream that she was on another planet and she was in an elevator with what we would call an alien. And the alien told her, he said, thought is all, choose yours well. And then she woke up, but she wrote it down so she didn't forget it. But she knew that that wasn't another planet. That's Nina. Yeah. Yeah, that would be funny. This touches on aliens. If she was having a dream about what we would consider an alien and there are all these other life forms, potentially throughout the universe in all these different solar systems, then are they further advanced than us? Are they trying to contact us? How does it all interact? All I know is that there are civilizations who are more advanced than us and civilizations that are less advanced than us, but they're very spiritual. From what they told me, Earth is the hardest of all the planets. That's why it's such a big deal for people to come here. And we don't realize that it really is a hard place to be. It's a hard experience, but most of the planets aren't like this. Thank you so much. And please let people know where they can find more information about you and all of the buildings you described and the experiences. It's really, it's fantastic. So where can people find all of that? Sure. They can go to my website is johnjdavisnde.com. Amazing. And you're John, you're John, J-O-H-N, correct? Yeah, J-O-H-N, yep. Thank you so much for letting us receive the message that you believe you were imparted to share. We appreciate it. I think it's very, it's touching, it's thought-provoking. And I think for many people, it's really going to be transformative. So thank you so much. Well, thank you so much for the invitation. I love to share my story and it was so nice to meet you both. Thank you for your questions. I don't even know if I'd call that a near-death experience. That was just a death experience. It's a dead and came back. I'm thinking about Anita Morjani, right? Her organs, you know, started failing and I'm thinking of the spontaneous healing that she had after that NDE. But I think this is the first time we've spoken to someone who literally coded out. I think I'd want some superpowers if I came back, you know? His superpowers, the information that he has. You know what? It's true. In all the Marvel movies, everyone has a little bit of something different. And you don't get to choose. Well, I mean, I think the question is also, you know, I think that one of his superpowers, he may not identify it as such because it's different than precognition, right? Or it's different than seeing auras or... He's very optimistic. Well, and keep in mind, Elizabeth Crone was also struck by lightning. So she had an experience and her son also came back. Her son didn't have an NDE, but came, you know, acquired abilities after being struck by lightning. So we kind of have to separate that. But what everyone who has an NDE has come back with is the greatest superpower of all, which is the knowledge that there is more than this existence. There is a force greater than us that is a source of infinite, infinite, unconditional love. And it can suffuse you with a sense of belonging, acceptance, awareness. That's the... That feels like a pretty good superpower to me if I knew that. And my job was to tell as many people, I love that he became a hospice volunteer worker. Can you imagine he struts in the room? Guess what, yo? Your loved ones are on their way. He's the dude at every funeral who's like, don't worry. They're having the best time. The first thing I thought is... I thought we were just a bunch of spirits floating around. I'm cool with a body. Which body? Valerie, did you wonder this as well? I'm curious if Valerie... You can choose whatever body you want. Okay, well, can I be the ideal weight for me? Are there people with different body types there? I'm thinking of the great Renaissance paintings and all the women were beautifully curvy. They had bellies. I'm like, is that the ideal body? Bring it on. Maybe you get to try a different body every day. You just get to shift. One day you get to be super muscular. The next day you get to be super curvy. The next day you get something in the middle. There's where Valerie's thought of the day. What if you hated everything about yourself on this planet? And you get there and it's like, I'd like a totally different form. I think you can get a different form. And then you'll have to come back here to learn about love and acceptance. Oh, Archie says yes. Archie says yes. I really, I highly recommend you go to John's website to see these beautiful images of all the things that he described. I also love this notion of seeing yourself in other lives. I wanted to know, was he ever a woman? I'm assuming my soul is not gendered. What do you think? I think people often have more incarnations in one version than another. Oh, because I don't even know how that would work. There's a lot that is still up for debate. Turns out, earth school is really hard. There's one thing that John said before we leave that I found particularly touching and interesting in terms of the relationship he has with his children. And I thought of the Khalil Gibran. I think that's how you pronounce it. I've never said it out loud. Gibran, the guy who wrote the prophet. He has a very famous poem that I believe I read at one of my children's namings. Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself. They come through you, but not from you. And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love, but not your thoughts, for they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies, but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams, unless you are John Davis. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you, for life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children, as living arrows, are sent forth. The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and he bends you with his might that his arrows may go swift and far. Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness, for even as he loves the arrow that flies, so he loves also the bow that is stable. I thought of that when he talked about, you know, what is it like to picture your children, or really anyone that you interact with as just another soul. Really, really love talking to John. Make sure to join us on Substack for more conversation about this episode and things you can only get over on Substack. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's Mayan B. Alex Breakdown. She's gonna break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction was a lie. And now she's gonna break down. It's a breakdown. She's gonna break it down. It's hard to concentrate when you're worried about your health. It can feel like there's a wall between you and the rest of the world. Like you can't be fully present. Hello, AXA Health. How can I help? At AXA Health Insurance, we build our teams with people who care. 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