The Punchline

Hey, it's Latif. This is Radiolab. Today, I'm going to resurface a story with an interview that was one of, if not the hardest gets of my career. It took me two years of pestering. I regularly pestered the guy's PR people, then his agent, his book agent, even him directly. I got multiple no's at multiple points. And you're probably thinking, who is this guy? Is it the president? Is it a rock and roll hall of famer? No, it was this humble, unassuming Canadian guy you've probably never even heard of, but I had just fallen for his story so hard. I knew I had to tell it. So when I finally did get that yes, when I finally did interview him, the only time he offered to talk to me was when he was at home on dad duty and you could hear his kid banging on a piano in the background. And I was like, oh, this audio is terrible. Like, I can't do this. I could barely hear him. He wasn't paying attention. It just felt like one of those moments where the whole thing was going to fall apart. But then something magical happened. You'll hear it in the episode. It's this moment between him and his daughter that felt so intimate, so tender, that it just convinced me, like, oh, this story is going to be even better than I thought. I hope you enjoy. It's an episode from 2019, The Punchline. WNYC. Rewind. Oh, my God. So this, I had. Hey, I'm Chad Abumrad. I'm Robert Crowlitz. This is Radiolab. And we have another story for you, another adventure, courtesy of who else? Well, reporter Lethif Nasser. So the way I first learned about the story is that I saw that there was this article trending in this online publication called the Players Tribune, which is like a kind of athlete's magazine. Which, of course, you subscribe to. Which, of course, I subscribe to because I'm the like scrawniest. I'm the like least athletic. I'm the only scrawny couch potato, basically. Um, but, uh, anyway, the, the, the thing that jumped out to me about this article is that it's a sports story, but it's, it's actually so much more. Like, it's a story about voting. It's a story about cyberbullying. It's a story about, you know, sticking it to the establishment. It's a, it's a sports story, but it's like, it's one that feels like it could only have happened at this very specific moment that we're living in right now. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we can always paint sports as a microcosm of society, but in this case, it's undeniable that it was. So the whole story starts with this guy, Greg Wyshynski. What are you guys talking about today? Hockey stuff. Oh, sweet. Greg is a hockey journalist. Senior NHL writer for ESPN. Known to his legions of fans as Puck Daddy. Yeah. Is that a self-given name? No. He got it from his editor when he first started blogging about hockey. The other option at the time was Zamboni Pony, which would have been a horrible name. And I very much avoided an entire 10-year run of people calling me the pony. That's true. Right. But now I have my notes. I'm ready to roll now. OK, well, let's just jump in then. Yeah. So we are live. This story really begins on the podcast that I did with a gentleman by the name of Jeff Merrick. In the wrong industry, bud. Basically, a couple of hockey writers. Just shooting the breeze on hockey. Well, you know what industry we're in? We're in the hockey industry. And as you know, the hockey industry is about making money, making new fans, turning heads. Okay, so this is November 2015, just a few months before the NHL's, you know, big midseason spectacle. Welcome to Emily Arena. The All-Star Game. NHL All-Star Game. There is a sense that I have about this game that's worrisome. So this year, yet again, the NHL for the hundredth time in the last 15 years was changing the format of the All-Star Game. This year, the Honda NHL All-Star Game features a three-on-three tournament consisting of four different teams, one from each division. Hockey is typically five-on-five. Three-on-three, however, is supposed to be like, you know, way more action, a lot more scoring, a lot more fun. But for Greg and Jeff, who are, you know, these hockey purists, they're like, yet again, the NHL is just changing things up to get more eyeballs on this game that by this point has just become a watered down half speed joke of a game. It's not a game. It makes a mockery of it, but it's disgusting. So the two of them, as many diehard hockey traditionalists do, go off on the NHL. And eventually that leads them to talk about the other, what they see as the other really dumb thing about that year's All-Star game. Fan voting. Fan voting has long been a part of the game. As a kid, there was nothing else better than grabbing a little punch card at a game and knocking out the little circles and trying to grab like 30 of them to make sure that, you know, Kirk Muller gets a spot in the All-Star game or whatever. But over the years, the NHL had started reducing the number of players that could get voted in. One year, they were even accused of turning off the vote when they didn't like where it was headed. And anyway, this year, the NHL had limited the vote so much that the fans could only vote in four players, a captain for each division, the Pacific, the Central, the Atlantic, the Metropolitan. But four players, all you could vote in. That just seems to run counter to what the All-Star Game history tradition should be. to what we really want with this All-Star game, which is fan engagement at the end. I just hope that everyone, that somehow a collective, and maybe we can lead the charge here on this one. And at that point, they started thinking, what if we use the little voting power that we do have to mess with the All-Star game? We need someone in there who normally would not be in this game. Like, as a joke, we should vote somebody in who just does not belong. Hmm. And Greg's like, I like that thought. Okay. But who? Who would fit the bill there? And as Greg was thinking about it, he thought, you know what would be funny? You know what would really mess with the NHL? Is if we'd vote in a player. A player who couldn't really keep up. Couldn't really shoot. Couldn't really handle the puck. The slow guy with the bad hands. Couldn't do anything. Let's really, you know, drop a stink bomb in the room. And then... It hit him. The perfect guy. A Goliath of the league. John Scott. Oh my God, John Scott All-Star. John Scott. So John Scott. Scott is 6'8 and 270. Was a behemoth. Yeah, he cracks the ice. He was a guy that would only play between like five and eight minutes a night. John Scott on a breakaway. Couldn't really shoot. He missed. Couldn't really skate. John Scott. Big hit in the corner on Greg McCain. And on top of that, when John Scott was on the ice. Lock it for Rowski. Oh, that's a way it is. That's a cheap shot. That's unacceptable. The only thing he was good at was knocking other people senseless. Here we go. Scott went after Kessel. Whoa, this is brought something on. In hockey terms, this guy is a predator. John Scott was what you would call an old-fashioned goon. Yes. Oh, my God. That's the one. He's the one. He's the guy. From that point on, there was no other answer to the question. Like, that was the guy that it would have to be. Just got us to work. And what started there as a tiny joke between two guys on a podcast would end up twisting the fate and fortune of one of the most feared, loathed, punishing players in the National Hockey League. You be quiet. Yeah. Changed some things for his family, too. Be soft. Hello? Hey. Okay, I'm calling you from my cell phone. How's this? Oh, much better. So, this is John. Yeah, we're good. Morgan gave me the thumbs up. All right, great. He knows. Oh, yeah, my daughter's here, too. So, if there's, like, sounds, it's just my daughter cruising around. No, that's cute. I love it. Okay, good. Okay, so I think to really understand what it was like for John to be on the other end of this, to be like, you know, like the butt of a joke. You need to understand what hockey meant to John, like what it meant for him to be playing in the NHL. Like everyone has their dreams. Like when you're a kid, especially in the States, it's football, baseball in Canada. When you ask a seven, eight year old, we do those projects in class. What do you want to be when you grow up? And I think 90% of the boys are like, I'm going to be in the NHL. And I always said that my parents have all that stuff all over the walls and stuff. But yeah, I always dreamed of playing the NHL. I think everybody, that was their big dream. So, yeah. So John has this classic Canadian hockey kid story. Put on skates when I was three. My dad built the rink in the backyard. Played all the time. Every single day, morning, noon, and night. And you just go to sleep in your gear and wake up and just jump right on the ice. Skate until seven or eight at night. And you just jump in bed and go to sleep. You just kept it on to save time. But the thing about John was that even as a kid. I was a monster. I came out of the womb 24, 25, 24 and a half inches long. And I was 11 pounds, 12 pounds. I was huge. School pitchers was a joke. Everyone thought I was like a teacher's assistant when I hit like grade seven, eight, nine, because I was so tall. And when you're young and you're that tall, you have zero, zero coordination. And so John was never the top guy on his team. Never the fastest, never the most skilled, never, you know, the best at anything. I just kind of, sorry, my daughter just started playing the piano beside us. Yeah. Is he okay with it? Are you okay with the piano, Latif? I can, I'll get her off. Okay, yeah, that would be great. Sorry. It's cute for a little bit. That last question was. All right, we're good. Thanks. Maybe a little too much texture. So you, oh yeah. um well there's something you said that you uh here let me let me put her to bed one second sorry latif take your time take totally take your time i'll keep you on the phone it'll take two seconds but even if she cries up there a little bit she'll be fine follow you is that okay yeah she's just getting a little squirrely good questions latif you're from mississauga yeah i'm from mississauga so you're in boston new york now or no so so yeah i'm calling you from boston my cell phone is boston i my job is in new york but i actually live in la oh wow you're just like all over the map yeah i'm kind well not i mean i feel like compared to you you've been all over the map for real all right let me put her in here you go nanny all right now she's done perfect Oh my God, what kind of kid do you have? You can put her down so easily. She's like the best kid ever. It's great. I don't know how we lucked out with her, but she was our number five and we needed that because if she was anything but perfect, we would have been in trouble. All right, we're back. All right, let's, let's get back. Okay. We're back. We're back. We're back. Okay. So to jump back in, John plays throughout his school years. By the time he's getting close to college, a lot of his friends are getting offers, scholarships to different big-time schools, University of Minnesota, Boston College, places like that. For John, there was just no interest. Coaches thought he was too big to play, wouldn't be able to keep up out there on the ice. But eventually, he did get one offer to play for a mid-level university, Michigan Tech. And I just figured I would, in all honesty, I would finish college and get a job. That would be it. I would have gotten education for free and you know I play hockey with the guys on the weekends but that was that would be the end of hockey But then a couple of things happened First At school I kind of always noticed him He met Danielle Because he was about two feet taller than anybody else on campus They were both engineering students, started dating senior year. You know, we kind of hit things off and the rest was history. And the other thing that happened was, I got this opportunity to go play for the Houston Arrows, Minnesota's farm team. A minor league team. It wasn't crazy money. it was 30,000 or 35,000. He talked to Danielle about it. He was like, well, let me give this hockey thing like a go. Like this is the only chance I'm going to get to be able to say I played pro. And the way that I kind of looked at it was, oh, okay. It's just like a little head start. And then once I graduate, like we'll both get our jobs, like our real jobs and move on with our lives. So John moved down to Houston. I didn't have any expectations. I just worked my tail off. I was a bad skater. I worked at skating. I was a bad passer. I would work at passing after practice. But he says no matter what he did, he would not get any playing time. I was always a step or two behind. I was, I think, the ninth defenseman on the roster, and you only dress six for a game. So I never played the first, I think, month of the season. But while John was in Houston, he noticed that there were these other big guys on the team, and they were getting playing time. They kind of took me under their wings, and they said, hey, listen. If you really want to get noticed down here, if you really want to go to the NHL, you should learn how to fight. It worked perfectly, because that's what happened. So for those of you who don't follow hockey too much, I have guys on my team. who make $10 million, $9 million, $8 million, and they are paid to score, and they are paid to perform and play well. But there are also guys out there who their job is to pester, annoy, and we call them the rats, the pests. And you can hear these guys when they're mic'd up. How are you even here? Like 10 guys hurt right now? Running their mouths. What are you doing out here? They try to get under the star player's skin. They'll jab and poke at these star players, but sometimes... Oh, hit right in the head! They'll use their stick to hack at them, or they'll check them into the board. That's just an awful ball. I mean, what is that? Like, they'll try and really hurt them. What is that? I mean, the puck is nowhere... So, in order to deal with pests, you got people like John, who are called enforcers. So basically, my job is to make sure those pests don't pester my top guys. And so when we would go into a game, I would know exactly who to pinpoint because, you know, you do your scouting and I would go up to those guys and I would say, hey, listen, if you're going to do that, I'm going to put my fist through your face. And more often than not, just the fear of the retribution if they did something would stop them. And you could see the frustration in big John Scott's eyes. But if they did do something, my job was to beat them up. And as a hockey player, I was a heck of a fighter when I made the NHL. John Scott can really punch people. And Scott Averton with the right hand. Oh, jeez. So John would take care of the pass. If they wouldn't fight, I would usually grab their tough guy. Two big boys, and this is what they do best. And beat him up. Scott got in left, and then Jack Averton with the right. If we were playing flat and we didn't have energy. Big John Scott trying to spark his team. I would go out and try to fight to get my guys going. Or if it was a really bad hit, I would just grab that guy and I would beat his doors off. It's funny, throughout my career, I really hated fighting. There was days where I wouldn't sleep at night just because I knew I was going to get into a fight. But you just do your job. And I think I did my job well. Well enough that John was able to make a career in the NHL. It's everything you dream of as a kid. It was kind of like a leap of faith and it worked out great. So by this point, Danielle and John had gotten married. You know, we had bought our first house. Soon after had their first two kids. It was just so beyond anything we or I ever expected. Well, tell me tell me all the names of all the teams that you played for. Oh, my gosh, I'm embarrassed. So in 2008, John started playing in the NHL for the Minnesota Wild. After that, he played for Chicago and New York and Buffalo and San Jose. And throughout his whole career as an enforcer, there was this shift going on in professional hockey. Just an incredible, incredible play. A lot of the hockey establishment and the media, execs in the league, were pushing for the game to be more high scoring. Dazzling move. To be more about skill and speed. And a lot of people started coming out and saying there should not be a place in this league for fighting. I was the easy target. This guy is a goon. If you haven't seen the movie, you don't have to bother. This is a goon. They went after me and they said, listen, we don't need guys like this in a league. There's no room for it in the game. There's no room for guys in the game. Their sole purpose is to punch people. I believe the players that play in this league should be able to skate and pass and not simply ignite a fight. who were going to eliminate players like this. Which is one of the reasons why... Oh my God, John Scott All-Star. For guys like Greg Wyshynski and Jeff Merrick, voting John Scott into the All-Star game was not just a hilarious joke about a big guy who couldn't skate, but it was also a big, fat middle finger to the hockey establishment. So I'll just do the whole, the big point. Do it, do it. I was, we were on the road and we were on the bus heading to a game or a pregame skate. It was December 2015. John was playing for the Arizona Coyotes. And a guy on my team, Anders Lindbeck, our goalie, he was sitting beside me and he's like, hey, you're in, it was like 56th place or something of the fan voting. And I was like, oh, you know, that's great. People think it's a joke. They're going to vote for me a little bit. And it was nothing serious. So that's how I first heard of it on the bus. So we go to the rink. We do our skate. Literally after the skate, he checks his phone again. And he's like, holy cow, man, you're like top 25. It happened that fast. And then the next day I was top five. And then like the day after that, I was number one. There's a surprise leader in fan voting for the upcoming NHL All-Star game. And his name is, yeah, John Scott. Seriously. It was like a mega story. Arizona's John Scott is leading the NHL. It was unbelievable how quickly it grew. John Scott, number one. The number one vote getter among all players in the NHL. Which meant that John would be a team captain at the All-Star game. Let that sink in for a second. And for the fans who were voting for John, there was definitely a bit of like, oh, you shrunk the number of players we can vote in? Oh, yeah? Oh, really? Well, we're going to make our votes count then. Here's Johnny. But I think for a majority of voters voting for John, let's be honest, it was just really simple. The reason John Scott's leading the voting is because it's funny. John Scott is not an all-star. He has one goal over eight games. He barely plays. Like in this three-on-three format where there was supposed to be a bunch of speed and skill, wouldn't it be funny to see this big... Arizona Coyotes goon. Ogre. Fighter with no skills. Objectively bad at hockey. I don't know what he's doing in the league. Make a fool of himself. Oh, I hated it. This isn't funny anymore. I get it. Like, I'm this terrible player who you guys think would be fun to watch me, you know, fail in this game. But I just figured it would end on its own. Honestly, I thought it would last a few days and people would get, you know, enough of it and it would go away. But it just didn't. And as for the NHL? They were pissed. I mean, to put it frankly, I definitely got the sense from some of the people that I speak to on a regular basis at the NHL that they were really angry that this was happening. And why? Like, can you get any more specific about like why this would have been an embarrassment to them? Like, what is it exactly that they were so sensitive about? They were sensitive about the fact that the All-Star game is something that a lot of old-time hockey people, and there's a lot of old-time hockey people that run the National Hockey League, see as something prestigious, one of the ultimate honors for a player. And so this was not something they wanted to happen. And it was happening. And they didn't really know what to do about it because they didn't have any fail-safes in place to prevent it from happening. After one day of John sitting atop the All-Star vote. We're just like laying in bed. The kids are sleeping. John gets a text message. He gets up out of bed, goes over to his phone, starts reading it. And he's just standing there for like a while. Selfishly, I just want to go to bed. But then, you know, I can tell something's just got him stewing over there. And it was his PR guy from the Coyotes. They thought it would be a good idea to release a statement. And they wrote up this statement for me. And it basically said, thank you for the support. I don't want your votes. Please vote for other guys on my team. Basically, his own team is saying. Step away from the All-Star game. I saw him respond, yeah, that statement's fine, and then delete it, and then just sit there and look at it. And I just remember asking, would you want to go? And he's just like. Well, yeah, I think, because as a kid, I watched all the All-Star games. It was so fun to watch, and I would dream to be in it. So, yeah. And I'm like, well, they want you to release a statement. Release a statement. but make sure that it's true. And so John ends up writing a statement that reads, quote, it's nice to be thought of by all of the fans. And for that, I am truly flattered and grateful. And while I would love to experience an all-star game, I think a few of my teammates are a bit more deserving of a vote. And so it's sort of like, I would go if I get voted, but there's other people who deserve it more. I said, yeah, sure, send it out. I wasn't totally on board with it, but I just wanted to appease the higher-ups to hopefully help them. But even after that, it was still John Scott, number one vote getter. Oh, by far. Yeah. It's funny. They stopped showing how many votes the players were getting. They took that option off the website because I think I was ahead by so many. It's like you broke the website. Yeah. So they took that away. And then the NHL, they really tried to strong arm me. Oh, yeah. What happened there? So I was in my bedroom in Arizona and they called and it was one of the higher ups in the NHL and he just wanted to know how I was feeling. It was getting really close to the end of the voting. I just said, yeah, I want to go to the game. I think it'll be fun. I think it'll be good for everybody involved. And he's like, really? Are you sure? You think you'll be able to keep up? You think you're good enough? You're not exactly a skill guy, John. And they started that way, and I just kind of brushed it off. I was like, yeah, I can skate pretty well. I'm a good, decent hockey player. And he goes, well, you know, have you talked to your dad? What do you think? First, he goes, is your dad alive? And I was like, yeah, he's alive. What do you think he's going to think about this situation? You think you're going to make him proud? And I was like, what? I don't think that has anything to do with this. And I kind of brushed that off. And at this time, I'm getting a little angry because I'm just like, man, let me flip and play. And then he's like, well, what do you think your kids are going to think when they look back on this? Do you think they're going to be proud of their dad who went into the All-Star game this way? And as soon as he brought my kids into the equation. I just like lost it. And I kind of snapped back at him. I'm like, you're being a real bleep and bleep and bleep and bleep. And we were back and forth and he started cussing at me. And then like, I finally like snapped back into my, holy cow, I'm like yelling at one of the head guys in the NHL. I should like dial it back. And I apologize. Like, sorry, like, you know, you pushed the wrong button. Like, let's talk tomorrow. I'll let you know if I'm going to go or not. I left it like that. So John slept on it. woke up the next day, called the dude the next morning, and I said, I'm going. After the break, we'll see you at the game. Maybe we will. Yeah, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe not, yeah. This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high science and technology news making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org. room and he's like yeah um i just traded you to montreal and i was like are you effing kidding me what and he's like yeah it was a hockey move uh we you know we we needed a little defensive help and uh we traded you to montreal for this guy and i said this is an effing joke are you kidding me and he said sorry you know the deal's been done i was like okay whatever super shady to be traded right after I am finally in the All-Star game. It's like, you know, if it smells like a, you know, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's fishy. We called John's former team and the NHL about this. Neither wanted to talk. Nonetheless, what happened next is that a short while later, John is in the locker room. Gathering my things, trying to say goodbye to the guys, and he pulls me aside again. And the GM tells him, actually, Montreal, the team we just traded you to, they're now going to demote you. They're sending you to St. John's, Newfoundland, their farm team. You're in the minor leagues now. Go see the trainer, get your stuff ready. You're leaving today. According to the terms of the trade, he had to be on the plane that same day. And that's when I was just like, I was done. I was like, OK, done. See ya. And I just checked out. I went and found somewhere in the rink. I called my wife. Who, by the way, was nine months pregnant with twins. I get the phone call from John. In those situations, he's kind of a man of like few words. Tells her, we're in the minors now. And I'm like, all right, we'll be fine. Plan C, where's the minor team? Like, how do I get there? You know? And he's like, yeah, it's literally on the other side of the world. It is North America's easternmost city. Like, you could not go further from where I'm at right now and still be on this continent. And I said, sorry, I got to go. Can you please handle all of this? Take my two kids, take the two kids in your belly, take all my stuff, pack it up. Like, I have to leave. It's so bizarre to have to say that to her. And like, there's nothing I could have done. You just say, I'm sorry, I have to go. And I was just thinking to myself, okay, you know, like, just trying to hold on to hope, like, we can make this work. Let's see where it's at. And I'm, like, looking at flights, and, like, I pull up Kayak, and I'm seeing, like, the flights. And it's, like, 16 hours of travel, 14 hours of travel, 18 hours of travel. And, like, the prices for, like, a ticket is, like, $1,600. Like, it set in. And it really all hit me at that moment. And I just like sobbed. I composed myself, got my gear, told the GM to go, you know, wherever. And I jumped in the car, packed up my shit and went to St. John's. You want to talk about John Scott so we needn't have the debate. No, I guess not. The floor is yours. Quiet. Canadian legend Don Cherry on the hit TV show Hockey Night in Canada. And you're going, you tried to ruin it all and you ruined this kid. He's in the minors, never to come back. I bet you should be ashamed of yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself. That's it. I saw this news hit and my first reaction was, you have got to be kidding me. Again, Greg Wyshynski, who started the John Scott for All-Star campaign. It was weird. Oh man, they just make this problem go away. But was there part of you who was like, oh my God, like I, I started this. This is on me. No, because at that point, you know, there had been criticism of us for having this campaign. And obviously when John Scott came out, I was like, you guys ruined my career. This sucks. Sort of pooh-poohed it off the bat, made you feel like maybe you've done something kind of bad to a dude. But the campaign had kind of taken on a life of its own. And at that point, John Scott said he wanted to be an all-star, wanted to represent a certain type of player. My role is like almost extinct. I'm like the last of my kind out here. And like, it would be cool to go out with the bank. All of his friends were saying you should do it. He wanted to do it because people were telling him not to do it. I don't mean it necessarily that it's your fault or anything, but in a way that like you just, and not that you could have foreseen it, but like you started the train. Was there part of you that was like, oh my God, like if I hadn't said that one thing on my podcast, like this guy wouldn't have had to uproot his whole life. No, I mean, again, like I feel like it was the National Hockey League at this point. that was standing in his way. Now, whatever you think about the initial prank or John being demoted, this is the moment, Greg says, when the crowd mood totally shifted. Complete outrage. This is trash. Like complete outrage. This is garbage. I'm not going to go on a rant about democracy. It became protests online. This is a lousy thing to do. sweeping through the hockey world like, look, the fans voted this guy in. The NHL is doing all it can to keep this guy out, and that's not right. You want to change this? Contact your favorite sports writer in your city. Since the NHL is so damn image conscious, why don't you put pressure on your favorite reporter to stick up for John Scott? I can only imagine how John feels right now. well pissed off sorry for yourself then you feel you get sad do i even want to play hockey what do i want to do like i do i just quit hockey and go work like he like you think about all these things but now that you're in the minor leagues are you allowed to play for the all-star game that's the thing no one knew he says right after he was demoted to the minor leagues people started to you know read through the bylaws read through the books trying to figure out like can a minor League player play in the professional NHL All-Star game. And it turns out there was no rule that even remotely addressed the situation like it was totally unprecedented. And so the pressure stayed on. The NHL knew that if John Scott wasn't in the All-Star game, there's probably visions from the NHL of protest signs along the glass of fans out the outside the arena holding a rally because John Scott was snubbed. And according to Greg, hockey fans are notorious for throwing jerseys onto the ice in protest, causing scenes. And eventually, the National Hockey League had to acquiesce. They put out a statement. They made a statement saying, hey, if John wants to go, he can go. But John says at this point, I told everybody I'm not going. Like the NHLPA, I told all my friends, the teammates, I'm like, I'm done. This is a bogus. I don't want to do this. He says between the fans making fun of him and the league demoting him, The whole thing was just too humiliating. But I was just like, John, you may regret this. I know you want to like run away and hide right now. And like going in front of all these people is the very last thing you want to do. But you might regret it. She's like, let's go. It'll be fun for the family. The kids will love it. I would love to see you go and prove these people wrong. My wife was building me back up. And slowly but surely, I was like, okay, you know what? Fuck this. Let's do it. Very impressive here in Nashville. January 31st, 2016. Nashville. It was a complete circus. It was unbelievable. I was obviously the big story, so the moment I land, there's reporters everywhere asking me questions. John would be representing the Pacific Division in the All-Star game. And we had to play, I think it was a central who everyone said they were stacked because they had all the stud players on their team. Players like Matt Duchesne, Maddie Duchesne, James Neal, all of these much younger, much higher paid players. And then you had John. I knew everybody was staring at me and I'm weird about my hair because I'm going bald and I'm skating around like I wish I would have grabbed my hat. I was like, dang it. Everything is buzzing. Danielle's in the stands with their two little kids. Everybody's looking for him to fail. Yeah, this dummy's going to make an ass of himself. And before the game, the coach comes up to him. Coach asked me if I wanted to start, and I just said, no. Please let me stay on the bench. And the coach is like, all right, but you're going in early. So John's teammates skate out to center ice. He's sitting on the bench, butterflies in his stomach. Pecorino in goal for the central. Ref drops the puck. Right away, 26 seconds into the game. John's team goes down 1-0. It was like a terrific goal. Like, it was a pass to a one-timer shot. Like, it was a goal that all stars make. John's coach looks at him and says, Scott, you're in. Remember, this is three on three. There is a ton of open ice. There's nowhere to go. Like, there's nowhere to hide. And John says that skating out to center ice, he just kept thinking, don't mess up. Don't mess up. Don't make a fool of yourself. And that's all I was thinking about. Ref's got the puck, holds it above center ice. I don't belong here. They think you're a joke. Don't screw it up. Drops it. Once the puck drops. You just kind of, you know, everything else goes away and you just start playing hockey. This was like going back to when I was younger. I wasn't the best. I wasn't the fastest. But you, you know, you just start playing. And that's what I did. This time, John's team took possession of the puck. So back to get it is Brent Burns. Burns, he had the puck. We're going up the ice. John and his teammates charge across center ice. They move into their opponent's zone when... Brent Burns passes the puck to John. John manages to control it. He's kind of up against the board, so he's using his body to protect the puck, trying to figure out what to do next. When he makes this nice little backhand pass... Back to Burns. Burns, he had the puck on the right wing, and all of a sudden I noticed between two of the defenders there's this nice little lane right to the net. I went to the net. Burns spotted John. And he put the puck right on my stick. John's just like a few feet from goal and the goalie's actually out of position. I had a wide open net and I shot it. And I missed the net. Like a wide open net. But the goalie was luckily sliding back into position. And so the puck hit the goalie bounced off the goalie and into the back of the net. There you go. There you go. It was awesome. Like, I was so jacked up. I had goosebumps, like, after the goal. It was so neat. It was cool. Everybody went nuts. That was a neat thing. The crowd, I didn't know how they were going to react. Usually they boo me because everybody booed me and they were all for it And John Scott will get a standing ovation The weird thing about the masses too, it's like how quickly everybody can go from hating you to loving you. It was such a sense of relief for me. The huge monkey was lifted off my back because I was like, okay, I did something for the team. I didn't mess up. He's going to relax and have fun. just like be himself in place. Which he did. He laid out this guy Patrick Kane. And then the two of them dropped their gloves and pretended to have a fight. He got a couple nice passes. Save me, Vairini! Had a really close shot on goal. He was just kind of doing everything. And every time John Scott was on camera or touched the puck, the crowd would come to life. Greg Wyshynski was actually there reporting at the game, and he was down in the tunnels interviewing other All-Stars. And what happens when you're down in the bowels of the arena is that the All-Star game is on TVs, but there's a delay between what the broadcast has and what's happening on the ice. So typically you'll hear something happen in the game before you actually watch it on TV. And I remember hearing this gigantic roar from the crowd. And then everybody kind of looked over at the TV and watched the All-Star game. 6.50 to go in the game. If tied, a shootout. Okay, so what happened, what elicited that roar, was that it was getting to the end of the game, tight game. John's team was up by one. We were in our zone, playing defense, and all of a sudden, their team shot it. Nice move, and a save is made by Quare. We had a save, and Bernsie got the puck behind the net. And I just blew the zone. I skated out of the zone as fast as I could, because I knew he was going to get it. He saw me up the middle and he fired a nice pass and I corralled it and took off down the center of the ice. I had someone hounding me. But John so big he was able to keep this defender off of him. So it was just John, the goalie, and the net. He gathered the puck. I ripped the shot top corner on the goalie. And it went in. He's got two! It was amazing. No goalie deflection, no lucky bounce, just a solid skill shot. There was just sort of this moment of just laughter. Laughter from the players being waited to be interviewed, laughter from the media downstairs, just unbridled joy in watching it all happen. I was just like, is this even happening? Like, it started to just be like, it's like I could physically see the smile on his face from up in the stands. The guys on the ice jumped on me. They were like, holy cow, this is unbelievable. The final chapter of the John Scott story, at least as it pertains to the All-Star game, is this really beautiful thing. and so so there's this scene in Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan Scotty get us out of here best possible speed where it looks like the Enterprise is gonna get away having defeated Khan but Khan no is still alive the game's not over and he's gonna try to trigger the doomsday device on his ship to kill everybody and so as the Enterprise is flying away you see a bloodied Khan say from hell's heart I stab at thee hell's heart I stab at thee for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee and I thought of that scene when the voting for most valuable player at the all-star game starts to explain at the end of the game there's one final bit of fan voting fans were going to choose the mvp of the nhl all-star game most valuable player and the fans in the arena and watching on tv they would text the name of the person they want to a number or they would go on twitter and use a special hashtag and type the person's name any case it will be coming up shortly Right as the voting is about to begin, the NHL puts up a bunch of names of players on the Jumbotron. Says, here are your choices. And John Scott's name was not listed among the three MVP candidates on the Jumbotron. Ladies and gentlemen, it is now time to award the 2016 Honda NHL All-Star MVP Award as decided by you. the fans saw that I wasn't on there and they went nuts they started to boo loudly visibly you could you know feel it around the rink I felt it was the last gasp of all the people at the NHL that tried to keep John Scott out of the all-star game it was their last chance to get him like Khan trying to get Captain Kirk that's what he was trying to say with the analogy Anyway, what ended up happening is that during the voting, thousands of people wrote in their own choice. And when it was announced... The 2016 Honda NHL All-Star MVP scored two goals in the tournament and wins as a right-in candidate, John Scott! It's funny, I didn't hear it because on ice level, you don't hear what the speakers are playing because they point the speakers to the fans. So I didn't hear until somebody's like, hey, go and get your trophy. And I was like, oh, weird. John skates out to the center of the ice, laughing, looking a little scared. Holy shit, I was just like the MVP of the All-Star game. John Scott is with Pierre. Thanks a lot, Doc. There's been all kinds of ovations for you. And they're not stopping. What do you want to say first to the fans in Nashville? Just thank you so much. You guys have just blown me away. I love this city and thank you so much. And in what was the teary-eyed Disney family sports film moment. Well, your team won a million dollars. How are you planning on spreading it around? It's going to go 100 parts of me and then they're going to just take the rest. He was hoisted onto the shoulders of his teammates and paraded around like he was Rudy. Greatest sports movie ever. I wanted to go down by the ice so that the kids could see John and people were trying to help me down the stairs and parting the seas so I could get down there. My kids were down at the bench with my wife and it was so weird. It was literally like Disney wrote a script and it's like, okay, now he kisses his wife. He kissed me and our eyes locked and it was just we both were kind of shaking our heads. We were both a little bit speechless. Now he grabs his kids. He scooped them up. In the cliche fashion, I grabbed my kids and skated them around the ice. Abe was like, Dad, you stink, you smell bad. And like every time, like I would just look at him and I'm like, can you even believe this is happening? And it was no, like I just can't. And as they came off the ice, there were crowds of people waiting to ask them questions, take pictures with them. But we had a flight the next morning at like 5 a.m. He had to get back to the minor leagues. And before that, they still had to have these babies. So they rush home to give birth to the twins. Four days after the babies were born, I went back to St. John's. Oh, my God. Yeah. I feel like that was really the beginning of the rest of our lives. John finished out that season, played one last NHL game, and then retired. He and Danielle live with their five girls in Traverse City, Michigan. But the legacy of his all-star appearance lives on in two ways. First, the day after the game, it was announced that John Scott's helmet, the helmet he wore during the game, would be flown to Toronto, where it would be put on display at the Hockey Hall of Fame. But the other thing that happened was just in time for the next year's all-star game, the NHL created a new rule known as the John Scott Rule, which states that any player who is voted to be a captain in the All-Star game then gets demoted to the minor leagues will be disqualified, will not be allowed to play, effectively ensuring that never again will the fans have quite the power to overthrow the system and vote in a John Scott. Reporter Latif Nasser. This episode was produced by Mr. Matt Kielty and fact-checked by Diane Kelly. Also, if you want to hear more from John Scott, and of course he has a podcast, it's called Dropping the Gloves. Available wherever you get podcasts or lose your gloves. And in this episode, we had a lot of original music from John Dryden, The O.C.'s, Weed Eater, and Bongzilla. And last, special thanks to Morgan Springer, Faisal Kamisa, and Ben Hankinson. And I think that's it. That's it. That's what we got to do today. Yeah, let's get out of here. Okay. I'm Chad Abumran. I'm Robert Krolwich. Thanks for listening. You're welcome. To play The Message, press 2. Start of Message. Hi, I'm Pushker, and I'm from Yuba City, California, and here are the staff credits. Radiolab is hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser. Soren Wheeler is our executive editor. Sarah Sandback is our executive director. Our managing editor is Pat Walters. Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design. Our staff includes Jeremy Bloom, W. Harry Fortuna, David Gable, Maria Paz Guterres, Sindhu Nyanasambadam, Matt Kilty, Mona Madgavker, Annie McEwan, Alex Neeson, Sarah Kari, Anissa Vitser, Arianne Wack, Molly Webster, and Jessica Young. With help from Rebecca Rand, our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, and Natalie Middleton. Hi, I'm Monica, and I'm calling from Mexico City. Leadership support for Radiolab science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. This is Ira Fleto, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high-quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.