Episode 491: John Cena

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Before then it was there. Most of the wrestling world, uh, first here's a John Cena on the learning channel. They do a documentary about Rick Bassman's UPW promotion there in Los Angeles where John Cena broke in and of course he stood out for being particularly well spoken and having a good night for cutting promos seemingly from day one of wrestling school and there's that famous scene of him filling up a shopping cart with all the meat he needs to eat in order to keep that muscle. He needs a lot of meat, yeah. At the end of the documentary. Meaty meat meat party, yeah, with all the meats. Cena's got the meat. Yeah. Uh huh. Hey, he got all the meats. Cena. I'm noticing you're a little bit like Snotts the dog at Christmas vacation. It's better if you just let him finish, you know, uh, at the end of the documentary John gets these all over the screen. You would probably think that's gross, but it's not. Don't know. What else is on your mind today, Bruce? I don't know. I don't know, man. Cena's got the meat. So by God, he liked his meat, liked a lot of meat. You a big fan of John Cena's meat? By God, yes. He's a meaty meat man. Big meaty meat man. So listen, I want to ask you about. Yeah, I think it's fine. Yeah. Wagyu. Cool. Good. Wagyu. Right. Do you know the difference between Wagyu and Kobe? Nope. I don't either. They're in the same shit. I don't think so. He said one's Japanese, but one's Texan. Not really sure. Okay. All right. John Cena's meat. He likes, he likes meats. He did. Yeah. I think he still does. Probably. I hadn't talked to him in a long time. Yeah. I hope he's doing well. He is. Good. Glad to hear that. Yeah. What else is going on? Well, we're just here by God doing this here, here podcast by God. Who are we going to talk about today? I guess Wagyu and Kobe, I'm trying to Google the differences now. I'll get you that information as soon as I get to the bottom of that. Thank you for that. Yeah. Our good, hey, our good friend Tim Sabian could probably tell us. Yeah. I hadn't heard from Tim in a while. Hope he's doing well. I know wherever he is, he's watching this with some blue frame glasses. I know that for sure. You know, he is probably eating some fine good nice meat. There you go. He's another meat guy. I guess the epidemic really. Everybody we know is rocking the meat. You know, you know. Go ahead. With what? With whatever you want to go ahead with. What do you mean? I don't know. Is Randy Savage still here? He's hanging around somewhere. Okay. He's over in the corner with Virgil and Bobby and hot rod and see who else is virtual. You're over there too, Conrad. Not yet. Not yet. Oh, wait. You mean on the wall? I thought you were talking about heaven there for a minute because everybody you rattled off is no longer with us. Oh, fuck. Seriously, you were like Bobby and Roddy and I was like, oh, he's just going through all of his friends in heaven because Virgil recently, you know, he's. No, we're just going through the wall over here. I got you. I'm sorry. No, I'm still with you, uh, at least for now, but if I was Wagyu, maybe not. Hey, I wanted to ask you about this documentary with John Cena. Like, you know, I know it's a documentary, wink, wink, but we know enough about how that stuff is made. Was John Cena going to be signed to the WWE regardless of what happened with the documentary or, you know, did you know it was happening and so we're going to put him on TLC or how does that all come to fruition as best you will? Yeah, we didn't put him on TLC. He had nothing to do with that. That was a Rick Massman thing. Uh, I believe that was all shot long before we were doing anything with Cena. Um, you know, I, yeah, I had no idea about the documentary until it came out. Oh, well, okay. Well, then yeah, yeah, that was a Basement deal. That had absolutely nothing to do with us. And, um, you know, I saw John in California at UPW for the first time going there just to, you know, looking at the thing, the thing about, uh, the UPW folks and what that particular school had to offer was they were in California and they attracted a lot of big guys. They attracted unique looking talent. Guys who wanted to be in Hollywood, guys that wanted to be stars, they wanted to be, you know, the villain in the Bond movie and they were looking for their breaks and Rick Bassman was somebody that could offer that. You could offer the opportunity for people to be seen, uh, there in Hollywood. So he would have his shows, he would offer to train people for a fee and then try and sign them up to a, to a never ending contract. If he, if he taught you how to take a bump and, uh, get you booked in a commercial or a movie or things like that. And to be fair, you know, Rick, Rick did have those connections and Rick did get a lot of that done for some people. What was Rick Bassman's relationship like with WWE? I mean, we know like the OVW relationship and the diff, the deep South relationship, the different developmental territories that are more traditional developmental territories. I don't think UPW was exactly that. So was there an official relationship between Bassman and WWE or was it just friendly more than anything? No, there was an official relationship with Bassman in WWE because we, we used Rick and we used the, um, the UPW training ground is a place to see some of these talent that we may not seek or that wouldn't come across our radar because they, they sure weren't there for the wrestling ability for the most part. And it was a place that attracted guys that we wanted to, like I said, they want to be in movies and want to be on television. They wanted to do acting and different things and saw wrestling as a means to an end. But we would go there and we would look and see if there were guys that could actually make it in the business. And that was, that was kind of the relationship to, to utilize Rick and utilize Rick's access to these talent. A lot of them were gold gym guys, bodybuilders and, and what have you also in the mixed martial arts world. So he had access to a lot of different unique looking talent. I did not, you know, really use Rick's school as a training grounds. We didn't really send anyone to UPW to train when they were ready to train and we looked at them as possible prospect to go on. We would send them to OVW. We would send them to Memphis. We would send them to Florida and you can get them trained there. You know, you'd have to, they came out of some places you most likely would have to retrain them and, and kind of fix what had already been put in them before. But no, it was a, it was a good place to, to find different and unique talent. How much of that do you think is just because it was in Los Angeles and the town just attracted a lot of dreamers, you know, whether it was wrestling or bodybuilding or acting or whatever. A lot of people moved to LA to chase their Hollywood dreams. Is that a big component of it? Do you think? 100% because again, it's just like the, the aspiring actress that moves to Hollywood and waits tables in downtown Hollywood at the all night coffee shop, hoping that, you know, that right casting agent, that right director, that right actor is going to come in three o'clock in the morning for some coffee and eggs and a piece of pie and she's going to be discovered. Uh, the same reason that guys go to LA and go to Venice Beach and go to Gold Gym there to be discovered for someone to see them. And they're going to be the next Arnold. So California was, was the place, was the right place to be. And it was a good place for, for Bassman's group because aspiring talent would go there to be discovered. So yeah, it was, it was right placement, right time. So we know John's going to get his developmental deal. And in 2001, the company's partnering with UPN on a reality competition show known as man hunt. This is where contestants would have aid, I guess we'd call them bounty hunters that were played by actors armed with paintball guns, including John Cena as one of the lead bounty hunters called big Tim, but eventually WWE pulls out and I guess Vince demanded his and WWE's production credits get removed, which is probably for the best because they do some scripted reshoots. And since it's technically a game show, I guess that's a big no, no, and it wound up being a pretty big controversy. You and I've never talked about this before. What, if anything, can you tell us about this UPN show man hunt specifically with Vince and WWE or John Cena's involvement? Yeah, more than anything, I believe best of my recollection and I don't really know on all the fine details of it. But best of my recollection is it was a UPN venture that having the WWE as a part of it was making it more attractive to buyers and to advertisers and what have you. So the we weren't really involved and for us to be attached to it, especially in those days. Look, we wanted to have some say in it. We wanted to, if we're going to be executive producers and we're going to be executive producers and we're going to be a part of it, then we want to have some say in the production say in what is going on. And I think that's where everything kind of fell apart. I don't even think that we cast Cena in that. I think that that was another thing that was done prior to us. Wow. Okay. Well, in the meantime, we know that John Cena is going to report to OVW. He's quickly put into a tag team with Rico Constantino. He had only been wrestling for like two years, pretty much exclusively in OVW, but he was carrying himself more like a veteran. And if he didn't know better, you would think that this polished performers in his late 30s. So he has to be a vet, but he wasn't. We haven't spent a lot of time talking about him before, but why was Rico such a good partner for John to learn from? And, uh, you know, why was that such a natural fit in OVW? Do you think? Well, look, going back, just just even going back to to John and and looking at what made John Cena unique in in his eye, because it's when I would go to California and again, I would spend time there and I would go Rick Bass and would have shows and different things and I would go watch the shows in knowing that you're not going to see the greatest wrestling in the world. And he had some veterans that were there and things of that nature, but, you know, they were doing their own thing and it would end. It was, it was different, you know, was unique. But I would also go to their school to watch the training and what have you. John was the first guy there. John was last guy to lead. John would pepper you with questions from the second you walked in the door and then would always ask me at the end of the night, Hey, can I give you a ride? And it dealt to 88, no air conditioning and a passenger side window that didn't roll down all the way. So, uh, but John was a really, really nice and inquisitive young man that wanted this so bad. He had, he had more heart and more drive and more dedication than man anybody I'd seen in a long, long time. So the feeling was that he deserved, he deserved a break. He deserved a shot and an opportunity at living his dream. He was not going to achieve that at UPW and in California. Sided, you know, let's take a chance on him. And the only way that we're going to find out is to get him out of California. So sign John, um, get all the, you know, the pre pre testing and work and all that stuff that goes into that and immediately as soon as he was signed and everything was done, we got him out of there and sent him to OVW. And in OVW, that's where the real training began. That's, that's where the training started. So we had to take some of the training that he had already received and kind of untrain him, reprogram him and get rid of some of those bad habits to then, you know, it was starting all over. And Rico Constantino, I think, you know, in many ways was in that same boat. Rico was the first winner of the American Gladiators and Rico was older. Rico had worked a little bit longer and Rico was a good worker. So Cornette in OVW looked, looked at Rico in the way that, oh my God, you know, this is your ultimate baby face. And this is what you build the company around. Rico Constantino, he's all American by God. He was an American Gladiator. He was a cop. He was this. He was that. And as a human being, I don't think you could find a better human being than Rico Constantino. Again, dedicated, loved the business, hard worker, good human being, dependable and all of those things. But Rico was also older. And it was when you look at what WWE was at the time and where we were going. It wasn't, there wasn't anything hugely unique about Rico that made you, he was, he was a good hand and a dependable hand and somebody that, that I would trust. Trust my life with and trust. But I don't know that he's the guy that, that we were looking to put on the top, you know, in WrestleMania. So to have, for Corny to put Rico with, with John Cena seemed to make sense because they both had the same, same basic structure as human beings, both solid human beings and Rico with a little bit more experience, wasn't going to take him down the wrong path. Did the retraining that you had to do in OVW, whenever you would bring a UPW recruiting like that, does that hurt the UPW relationship? Would it have been more fruitful? Had there been some, I don't know, more collaboration or different style of training that UPW could have implemented? Or did you kind of like it because it was different then? I liked it because it was different then. So sure, we could have put, we could have put our own trainers in there and we could have just taken over the school. I don't know that, I don't know what that would have done that, that we couldn't do because, look, Rick attracted a certain type of talent and Rick had ties to, again, the MMA world, the boss rootens of the world and folks like that, chemo and folks like that, that were interesting and that's, he was in that world as well. So we didn't want to mess with that. I didn't want to, he was training them for his stuff out there and that was cool. So the relationship was we're going to take a look at your talent, we're going to take the ones that we want and we're going to move them over here and train them because, again, retraining them for that, I don't think that that would have helped him anymore. We could pick and see which ones had potential, take them out and then retrain them to what we wanted to do. We know Jim Cornett had a ton of massive success with OVW. We've talked a lot about, you know, the classes that have come through there, obviously Matista and Brock Lesnar and Shelton Benjamin and Randy Orton and all these other guys. Cena's actually going to spend about a year in OVW before he gets called up to the Smackdown brand. Talk to me about the type of reports you remember getting or hearing from Cornett about John Cena's progress at OVW. I think that everybody likes Cena. They like his work ethic and that's one thing that you will never hear. You're never going to hear anybody knock John Cena's work ethic and his dedication to everything that he sets his mind to do. And Cena was well liked. He was well liked by the trainers. He was well liked by the talent and he was one of those guys that if you're going to, you know, you're going to paint a picture and you're going to draw a picture of a guy, of a prototype, if you will. It's that's something that you would draw. And you'd look at John Cena and go, yeah, I want that guy. And Cena fit the bill and he had, he had the mental aptitude and he had the personality and the ability to back it all up. So I think everybody likes Cena. By now, if we've learned one thing from John Cena, it's that we should never give up. And of course, part of that as guys is never give up feeling like we used to. Man, if you're like me, you hit your mid 30s and all of a sudden it felt like you were moving through mud. Everything that used to be easy just started to feel more difficult. Well, that's probably because your testosterone starts dropping. And it starts dropping a little bit each and every year as we get older as men. And if you start Googling that, man, you're going to get yourself down in a hole. And you might start thinking to yourself, maybe I need some testosterone replacement therapy. Well, it's worth the Google. And I want to mention that there are pitfalls with TRT that don't exist with Mars men. You see, Mars men gives you the same benefits of optimized testosterone. You get that energy, that strength, that focus, but without shutting your body down. I want to be clear. Mars men has no synthetics, no needles, no dependency. It's more like hitting the reset button on your hormone factory instead of just shutting it down completely. And that's really what TRT does for real. Natural ingredients are all that's in Mars men. And we finally found something that gives us the benefits without the scary longterm stuff. 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Please support our show and tell them we sent you. So we know when he gets called up, he is going to be the unknown who's going to take Kurt Angle to the limit before being positioned as one of the new faces of Smackdown alongside Edge and Rey Mysterio. At least that's the way it seemed. Paul Heyman's plan was supposed to be as the head writer. But the scene apart kind of fizzles out within a few weeks. What happened here? I mean, on paper, it feels like John Cena may have been like Vince McMahon's perfect wrestler on paper. You made the tongue in cheek. He could have been the prototype of maybe what Vince was looking for. But it doesn't feel like Vince has totally sold on John right away. What happened there? I don't know that anybody was sold on John right away. I don't think he was ready. And that was evident. It was, there was no real plan and that's okay. It's sometimes you look and go, who's ready? Well, nobody's ready. Well, when are they going to be ready? Well, I don't know when they're going to be ready. So there is no right time. There is no wrong time. And it was a time in which we needed people to step up. We needed people to be on screen, be new, be fresh, be different, see who catches the eye of the public and let's see who can make it. And John Cena was a guy. He certainly wasn't the guy. It was like, well, there's this prototype kid. There's this prototype kid and OVW and he needs a lot more work. He's got two left feet. But let's give it a shot. Let's see what happens. And again, like I said, there's never a time that anybody, my God, they're ready. I don't know. I can't really tell you anybody that was 100% by God, they're ready. You hope they are. You hope that when you give them the opportunity that they're going to be ready and they're going to be good. But man, the audience is fickle and they'll let you know whether or not they like something. And by God, they'll tell you if they don't like it even quicker. So John was given the opportunity and there wasn't really a plan for John other than to debut and let's see what we can do with him. Let's see if there's something that we can do. And very quickly, the John Cena ruthless aggression got old pretty quick. It's hard to concentrate when you're worried about your health. It can feel like there's a wall between you and the rest of the world. Like you can't be fully present. Hello, Axa Health. How can I help? At Axa Health Insurance, we build our teams with people who care. So when you need us, we're here to support you for cover that cares. Search Axa Health Insurance. Pre existing conditions are not covered. Hey, let's talk about ruthless aggression. I don't know if this is true or not, but I guess there's rumor in New Indo out there that Paul Heyman wanted John Cena to slap Vince McMahon on TV as a show of ruthless aggression. But ultimately that idea gets next. We know it is a famous slap on Kurt Angle. Do you remember the idea of being pitched that maybe he should slap Vince? I don't doubt it. Yeah, would have been nice. You know, I asked, you know, Chris Jericho about Cena slapping him. You know, I told John, I said, you got one chance to make first impression. And Jericho was in backstage with Vince. And the idea was for Cena to slap Jericho and about knock Jericho out. And, you know, it's unforgiving sometimes and it's not ballet. So yeah, Cena could, he wasn't shy about saying hello. Any heat on him for that, you think? Amongst the talent, amongst the board? No, look, and especially, look, you look at a guy like Kurt Angle, you look at a guy like Chris Jericho. I think Jericho respected it. I think Jericho, you know, always just have the thing, man, hit me. You can hit me here. You hit me here. Just, man, don't hit me in my mouth and don't hit me in my nose. I think that most guys respected it and they knew it was coming. And if you know it's coming and you're willing to accept a receipt, then all's fair and love and WWE. I like that. Hey, we've never talked about this, but as the story goes, I've heard that Jim Barnett was really pushing hard for John Cena in this era. I guess he was a WWE consultant. I don't know that you and I have ever talked about that. Does that ring a bell that Barnett would have been a supporter, an early supporter of John Cena? Well, Jim and I spoke weekly and Jim was, I don't want to say a, I don't know, I don't know if he's officially a consultant or not, but I know Vince was helping him out. And at the same time, you know, it's good to go back and pick the brains of some of the legends in the business. And Jim Barnett had an eye for talent. Jim Barnett knew the business and Jim had an eye for what was going to work, what was going to get over with the audience and just had that gift. And I would talk to Jim on a weekly basis. So I would get his opinion on the shows. Jim, what'd you think? What'd you like? What didn't you like? Who do you see? Who do you like? Who don't you like? What's working? What's not? And when John had gotten into the phase of where he was wearing everybody's jerseys, he was doing the basketball jerseys everywhere and wearing the different colors, and John would wear the shirt all throughout the match and everything. And I will never forget Barnett saying to me, I'm gone, I'm gone. That's seen. Get him out of the shirt. Oh, he's gorgeous. Jim was a very flamboyant out of the closet, gay gentleman, and famous for that. And Barnett, for those who don't know, Jim Barnett was a promoter and just a and just a entrepreneur in the wrestling business that flourished and was extremely successful. And very difficult to do was an outwardly gay man in a very masculine business that really frowned upon that in those days. But Barnett was also an extremely intelligent and very successful. And like I said, he has he had his eye on talent and knew what would work and what wouldn't work. So Jim was respected, hated. All you know, you name it, Jim ran the gambit. He people were not. You didn't have an indifferent. You loved him or hate him. You loved him or hated him. And and Jim Z got that and he loved it. But he was just, oh, my boy. Oh, Connie. You're always my favorite. What do you like? Can I get you some French fries? Do you like pie? Just, you know, he just was that way. But Jim Z was was adamant and was so angry with me that we kept John Cena in these damn basketball jerseys basketball jerseys. Take it off. And so when we were in Atlanta, I invited Jim to the show and I buzzed John early on. I said, hey, Jim Barnett and he was familiar with who Jim Barnett was. And I said, well, one of his criticisms of you is that you never take the shirt off. And he says, you got your card for your body. You should you should show it. Nice. OK. And we got there. And Barnett got there and I found Cena and John was wearing his basketball jersey. I said, John, I'd like for you to meet Jim Barnett, Jim John Cena and John immediately just reached up to show up. I said, Mr. Barnett, how are you? It's a pleasure to meet you. Wow. And Barnett was drooling everywhere. Oh, God, he's gorgeous. And he said, do not ever put that back on. The women will. Oh, my God, they love you. And he just, you know, but that's, you know, look, Barnett, very successful with Tommy Rich. Jim Barnett was was very successful with having the teenage girls come out to see the hot new young wrestlers and everything. And that that drew money. You know, if you have the girls and you have the guys, that was the the old wrestling promoter. There's ways. Love promoters too. Yeah. Yeah. And you have that that hot young baby face is going to bring the women in, which is going to bring the guys in because the girls are all there. So I don't think John put that shirt on ever again. You know, we haven't spent a ton of time talking about Barnett, but I love that we can give him some flowers here. I love flowers. Oh, my God. Dorn it. Roses. Is there one thing that Barnett taught you that you've carried through the rest of your wrestling career and sometimes you'll bring it out and dust it off for other people, whatever it may be, some sort of nugget or of wisdom or some sort of statement or positioning that you like, oh, man, that's genius, Jim. And you've carried it this whole career. I think, you know, overall it was. Which all successful promoters, I think, have. Is the intuitive sense of listening to the audience and understanding what it is that the audience is telling you. It's one thing to listen and hear what you think you want to hear. And not really understand what what they're giving you and what they're really trying to tell you sometimes in their reactions. So. To that, you know, Jim was was very. Intuned to. No, they they're not buying it. And man, he looked he was he was. One of the things that to this day. The gym did every single day that I do every single day is look at the advance and see what did we do from yesterday to today in every market. And study it. I don't mean to cut you off, but explain what advance means. Some people listening to advance ticket sales. So when your your shows go on sale and you look at what they do, how many tickets you sell every day up until the event. So Jim would look at the on sale and then he would. And then he would. Guestimate what the gate would be what the final gate would be. But then you watch that you watch that sale as it goes along and you know what you have planned along the way to further stories and maybe. No, OK, we're going to hit him with a big angle here. So with three weeks left, we're going to hit him with something else and see how that boosts tickets. If it doesn't move tickets, wow, they didn't buy that. Or if it did, OK, good, we're on the right path. And the science of advanced ticket sales has changed dramatically, especially in just the last two years, really in general. But in history will tell you that if you you can see the trends and you you can tell when. When something's starting to to wane off and you can tell if you shoot something. And ticket sales or you announce something and ticket sales really jump. Then all right, good, we're in a good place. Or if you shoot something and you look and the next day is like, oh, nobody cared. Or that new gas station opened down the street. So Barnett was very into Barnett would would call. If the if you were on the road and before Howard would get the agent reports out, telling what the gate was, he would want to know what was the game. How many people? How many cops? What's the guy? Did we did? Did we put tickets on sale for the next show? How many did we sell? So that that is is something that was instilled in me at a young age. But Barnett really also helped me understand that when I got here to WWE. I only got to experience that a few months with him here. But in that very short time, I got to see just how all the nuances and everything and those nuances change. But I never shot away from that. I always like to look at, man, where are we? Where are we in the promotion? Okay, is this moving the way it should move? And you compare it, you compare it to what you did before. On day 14 by God, how many tickets did you sold the day 14 of the previous promotion? And and look at that every single day. That's that's an addiction. That's something that some people don't don't understand and don't don't subscribe to. But I would put my record pretty much up against anybody on that one and just having a gauge of where we're going to be. When everything said and done. I love being wrong when we do more. But you got a pretty good track record there. You mentioned that you think that that has changed in recent years. Is it is it now more of a they buy early or they buy late? Or do you see the progression or what if anything has changed from the way it used to be changed? I think a lot has changed as far as how people buy tickets. And when they with the it's like Netflix, Netflix is an interesting animal because they they don't believe that people make make decisions to do anything. Really make decisions to do anything to your 10 10 days out. And I'm thinking, well, you know what? If there's a concert I want to go to or there's a game I want to go to or things of that nature. I pretty much make my decision when I hear the announcement. Right. And and a lot of people do. And they will tell you that, yes, they're going to they're going to hear about and they're they're talking more about their viewing habits than anything else. Whereas for me, looking at a live event, I think that people make those decisions early. But they may not act on buying the ticket as early as they used to. I think they wait and see and they watch and they go, OK, well, oh, boy, yeah, a lot of people buy. Better get mine now. And dynamic pricing and all that has really changed the game as well. But I think that at least. At least 50 percent of your audience is making their decision when they hear about the event. That makes sense. It is to whether or not they're going to go. But every market, every market is different as well. And time of year is different. So it's around the holidays. It's a different buying habit than it is in the summer. Where are you in the summer? It's funny. We we would complain about going to Minneapolis in the winter. Ah, why don't we go to Minneapolis in July? Well, because in July, folks in Minneapolis are vacationing out at the lake. I got you. They're used to going out in the snow and the ice and the cold and they want to get out of the house. So they're used to doing that. It's just us that have to fly in and freeze and go through all of that. The folks that live there. They're used to it. It's their home. So it's kind of the place in in Canada. Um, Kauana, I don't know. I can't remember that. But it's we would go there and we would go in the winter. Nobody was there. It was a tourist town and no one was there other than the locals who were like, yeah, we're not going out in this. So it's different every everywhere you go. Maybe they couldn't see you, but the time is now to take a blue chew. Come on. Hustle loyalty and respect your way to the hardest thing Dung you've ever had. Blue Chew is not just a tablet. It's a cheat code for your crotch. Stronger, harder, longer lasting. Like somebody gave you downstairs a pep talk and a gym membership. I'm telling you, your gimmick is going to feel like it's super Sina. Blue Chew is the original brand offering chewable tablets for better sex. You know, I bet John Cena back in the day when he was all word life, he was carrying around his encyclopedia, Brick Tanica everywhere. And you can too. Guys, we're not just talking about performance here. We're talking about your legacy or your third leg. I see. Give her group chat something to talk about. Nothing makes you more of a legend than a little blue chew. Go discover your options right now at blue chew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. As always, get your first month of blue chew free. Just use the promo code wrestle a check out and pay five bucks for shipping. That's it. Join Blue Chew's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust at a time. Head on over to blue chew.com for details and important safety information. And a big thanks to blue chew for sponsoring today's podcast and Bruce's wiener. You mentioned earlier about Barnett and I thought this was interesting when you said they're not buying it and you're talking about, you know, as Jim Barnett, like he's reviewing ticket sales. I'm wondering these days, and I'm not saying the WWE position, but from a Bruce perspective, are there other metrics you look at like, you know, whether it's quarter hour ratings or it's ticket sales or it's merch sales. Is there an order of importance from a Bruce Pritchard ideology? Hey, tickets are number one. That's what's most important. Merch is number two and ratings are number three. Or is there a formula like that where you would rank them in order of importance to really figure out what the audience is buying? Yeah, you're buying audience. So the audience that is going to take the time to spend the money in their car, their friends, their family, whatever, and come to your event and buy merch and sit and be a part of your event. That's the audience that's participating in your product. They're supporting it. They're supporting it with their hard earned dollars and they're supporting it with their time. So those are the most important patrons to me because they're there and they pay money to be there. So I want to take care of them. Obviously, your television audience is a huge part because that's where you make your money as well with advertisers and what have you. But when I'm listening to an audience that's telling me what they like and don't like, I listen to the audience that comes out and pays and is a part of it versus the audience that sits home behind a keyboard and, well, I think they did this and that. That audience, thank you for watching. Appreciate that. However, unless you're going to support us in other ways other than knocking us and critiquing us, then you've got opinions like assholes. Everybody's got one. I appreciate that. Let's talk a little bit about this first scene push, if you will. There is a pivot from the prototype that we see to now we're going to have the rapper persona. Unlike what we would see later in his career, he's as a heel. And I wanted to ask you. Yes, rappers are heels, Conrad. All rappers are heels. All rappers are heels. Okay. Except Jelly Roll. I'll have to take you. Jelly Rapper. He used to be, I think he's a country music star now. God bless him. Talk to me about Stephanie because she plays a big part in this sort of pivot for John, doesn't she? Well, you know, Steph was the head of creative at that time. And we were on a trip overseas and John was in the back. And John was doing, they would do these like rap offs stuff. Brian Hebner would, you know, what is called, spit a track or you know, you know, that kind of shit. I have no idea. And Cena would just bust on everybody when the busts are on the plane or what have you. Actually, you know, I wanted so badly for John to do vanilla ice at the Cincinnati when we had the big Halloween party. And frankly, everybody was kind of against it. Heyman quote Paul Heyman, you will destroy John Cena's career if we make him a rapper. Quote. And when we, we got there and we, we got back from the tour and John and I were walking backstage and ran into Vince and I on the spot, no prep, no nothing. Said, John, do a rap on Vince. And he looked Vince up and down and put a rap on him and ripped him to shreds. To his face. To his face. Yeah, that's great. And Vince said, oh my God, it's awesome. Who wrote that? And he's like, nobody, I just, just did it. He's just did it. He goes, I, I just, what I do. And so a lot of people will take credit for John and promos and raps and things that he did during that time. That's John. Now all that stuff, the raps, all those things, those promos, that was John. That was coming out of his head. Sometimes he'd write him down. Sometimes he wouldn't. But John would do raps with audience, with the audience, with people lining up in the back where the wrestlers came in and see they would want to, you know, rap battle with him and he would do it. Just, just freestyle and do it, do it right off the cuff and destroy people. He would, he would, that's just the knack he had and he was really, really good at it. Do you want to know what happened? He was really, really good at it. Do you want to, do you want to do a little John Cena rap right now? Do you have something for us? I got nothing. Okay. I don't. I, I, I couldn't if I, I, I, yeah. I know, I know. Now what you hear is not a test. Oh, God. Not a test. To me. And my friends are going to try and do that. Oh, I know. That's all I know, man. S T R G with the double E. The name of the man they call the master G now my name is known all over the world by all the Foxy ladies in the pretty girls. I'm going down as history as the bat's brother ever did be now I'm shaking the highs and I'm shaking the lows and something on the two year toes. Yeah. Sounds good enough. Hey, you're gone over a friend's house, eating the foods, just ain't no good. Macaroni soggy. Wait, peas or mush in the chicken and taste like wood. Yeah. How do you remember? I'm a rapping fool. Come on. Can't believe it. It makes it. There was a guy, man. There was a guy named Boogie. Okay. That's what we call them. Boogie and Boogie was nose tackle or football team and Boogie Boogie could rap. Maybe that's how you guys named Boogie. I have no idea what his real name is. We just called him Boogie and every game Boogie would get up, rap and that's all that's the only rap I know. Yep. We know that John Cena is going to be very successful in this new persona. Now that he's rapping, he's no longer the prototype. He's getting featured spots and he tries the character as a solo and he also tried it with Boogie Cannon who I think was called B squared back then and Rodney Mack. Did you ever preference? Did you think it worked best with, I guess in the wrestling business, they'd call it a heater? Did you like him with bull or him with Rodney or him as a solo as this rapper persona? I like John as a solo. He just, John didn't need a heater. John didn't need anybody else. Most times it was tried to help the other person by putting him with John. Right. So John didn't need it. John was much better by himself. Did John need any in ring coaching at that point because he is fair to extract to, so I'm wondering, were they putting in with some of those guys because if for some reason he got lost or he needed some coaching, they'd be there to say something. I mean, I don't know how long they were in their careers at that point, but I've wondered with the benefit of hindsight, was he there to sort of, were those guys there to help him sort of close the gap? I think, look man, we had, we had a lot of young talent that needed a lot of work on everything. So there wasn't a huge source of talent that were able to be teachers, but we had, but we did have, we did have some, we had a lot. And John, look, John had two left feet. John was clumsy as hell and it just, his stuff, one of the greatest, but at the same time, he was different. So while you're seeing, you know, you see somebody doing, you know, all their great worker, they're doing this, they're doing that. Then you see John, you go, well, man, he's just, he doesn't do it as smooth as them. No, he doesn't. But he does it with intensity, he does it with flair, he does it with charisma, he does it with heart. And then he, he got to the point to where he got to do a pretty damn good. Yeah. And the nuances of the awkwardness, if you will, just came across to where it endeared himself even more to the audience, because he wasn't as smooth as everybody. And that's, you know, look, man, that's another thing that's kind of one of my pet peeves of, of the folks that subscribe to the gossip and innuendo things that, well, work great. Koshii Wara did the Ishi Konzuwa and all these other words that nobody understands what the hell they're saying or what they're doing, except for a very small percentage of people. They're really into that and cool, man, if you're into that, whatever. But the word botch, which is a new word to me, is goes up my ass sideways. Because was it a botch? Or did we do that? Did we do it on purpose? Who knows? Okay. But the reality of it is, is the things that are done in the ring and around the ring are very risky, very difficult to pull off, and they shouldn't look smooth and easy. My opinion. I think that, man, you should miss. You shouldn't be so smooth that it looks choreographed as hell and you go flipping and you fly and you get right up from something that, by God, it looks like you almost broke your neck. Why? Because maybe you almost did. And God forbid, one day, you miss by that fraction of an inch and you do end your career, and possibly your life or possibly your opponent's career life. So when people, ooh, ha ha, they botch, fuck you. Okay. It's go try and balance on a rope. Go balance up there with another human being, 200 plus pounds, 250 plus pounds, 300 plus pounds, and throw them around and do the things that they do. First of all, like just see you try and go up there and stand on the ropes and try and then fall down from there on your back. Just do it. 99 percent, probably more of the folks that critique that shit, never done that and are incapable of doing so. So that one just goes up. So going back to John Cena and what he did, he was different. He looked different and that's what it made him unique to this day. Everything that he did, it was his own deal. And John worked harder than anybody else and continued that work ethic of, you know, first one to work, last one to leave. Watched everything, got feedback, gave feedback. You know, to this day, one of the biggest stars in the world still watches everything, still gives feedback to the young talent, still, you know, early to rise or, you know, I mean, late to bed. Early to rise or is it you know, I mean late to bed Yeah, it's I'm not yeah, we got off on John Cena's work, but it but it's it was unique It was unique, and I think that's what made him special Hey, man, did you grow up in the 80s or 90s? Do you and your friends still talking movie quotes like it's your own sort of secret language your own secret club They grab a drink and get ready to rewind I'm talking about the hilarious podcast be kind let's rewind your weekly Nostalgia fix for all things television movies music and video games from really let's be honest the greatest decades ever Every Friday the boys crack open a few cold ones and dive deep into the pop culture moments that made us who we are With big laughs bold opinions and the occasional did that really happen? Each week you'll get hit with segments like booze of the week boring ass facts shit stuck in my head and the ever-popular Norm McDonald clip of the week because no one told the joke quite like norm did From back to the future to the 40 year old virgin from Tommy boy to South Park in the Simpsons Be kind let's rewind is your time machine back to those simpler days Be sure to subscribe to their YouTube page at be kind let's rewind You can even engage with their show on Instagram X and discord But if you love the 80s and 90s nostalgia buddy this show is for you check it out be kind let's rewind By the way today's app was paid for by JBL Well, it's interesting because he's not too far in after Brock Lesnar and Brock seemingly took to the in-ring side a lot quicker But I think everyone would agree that Cena probably got the character part a lot quicker speaking of characters You guys positioned him with quite a character. He's gonna be feuding with Carlito It's really once he's back as a baby face where we get an angle And I can't believe this is real Where John Cena was stabbed a little night on our Carlitos orders This is the first stabbing storyline. I remember in WWE history. What can you tell us about this? Yeah horrible idea It was in the vein of trying to going off of again horrible idea There seemed to be a rash of just Shooting stabbing can't do a shooting So make it real make it real life what would happen man What if Carlito had somebody go to jump John in a nightclub and then got stabbed Um, yeah Not great, but it was the the thinking behind it was do something out of the ring Hmm do something that you don't necessarily have to see but you can talk about It is interesting I'll give you that you know We know we tried the the gun thing with Brian Pellman in Austin and maybe we learned our lesson there Do you think it's safe to say and of course never say never? You think it's safe to say that Stabbings are on the band list like guns now. I hope so. Yeah, I definitely hope so. I don't yeah, I Don't think we'll see another stabbing. I hope not. Let's talk a little bit about John You didn't see that one, but you saw the big scar right maybe didn't well we heard about it. We were told it happened Yeah, but he'll quickly he'll had had an incredible rejuvenation He'll just heal right up scar. We don't even see it. Hello. You just put a little What's that? What's that that jail called? bottom in the bottom and e on there you think Down there just disappear scars disappear miracle allegedly I don't know if this is true or not, but I've read online And so it's got to be true that brother love may have actually laid hands on him backstage and healed him. Oh, yeah That help yeah, yeah, I did but I didn't want to brag about it. You said I I thought you know Sometimes Conrad okay, you're healed place your hands Feel the love and I will heal you from within touch the TV screen If you're only listening to this by God just put your speakers and you too shall be Love comes over me Happens So it's seen as that sometimes I love it you can break out brother love any time any time he wants to come visit We're here for it. He's dead John Stabbing a nightclub two weeks ago Is there a specific trajectory for John Cena I know this seems like a silly question But once upon a time as a fan We would be under the impression that hey a guy would win the intercontinental title Then maybe after he might win the world title guys like the warrior, you know, certainly guys like Bret Hart guys like Sean Michaels but we know he's gonna win the US championship and That's gonna happen at a WrestleMania and the following year also at WrestleMania He's going to become the world champion now. Otherwise. I might think maybe that's just a coincidence, but While he's the US champion, but before he is the world champion. He films the movie the Marine And so when the movie comes out, he's actually the world champion Was that intentional strategy or just great coincidence? Yeah, I was a hell of coincidence really You know the Well, first of all, I mean look the different strategies for different folks. It's there's no set There's just how you have to do this you have to win this title for you when this right right right right right right Oh, shit. That's in fans minds. That's Whatever you want to pretend that it is I hear a butt hanging though No, no I was I was gonna go to the Marine the The Marine deal was Bless his heart and John John would do any and everything and it was It was an opportunity and I Don't think John really at that point in his career He don't think John really wanted to do the Hollywood stuff. I got you And he did it because he was asked to do it I see like this a hell of a you know, hell of an opportunity and try this think you'll do good and and frankly I thought John did well for his first time The We'll get to the premiere and all that shit I guess but it I don't know that we're gonna talk about the Marine anymore the the Marine was Is that it was a WWE films Presentation and what have you so it was our studios and our people and our script or our writers not like our writers but like our studio folks and everything and You know, we were putting out they weren't look they weren't straight to DVDs they were theatrical releases and But a lot of times it just weren't good And and it was again one that it was bad it just was It was interesting to say the least but we did the premiere and The premiere was at Camp Pendleton outside of San Diego. I Was living in Houston at the time and I Get a phone call It's a few days before the the premiere and it's group of people and voice on the other ends is Bruce Need an asshole Congratulations, that's why I've called you so we got this premiere and Well, it sure it's gonna be on a A Vable base It's gonna be military time I wanted to run like a military operation and everything is gonna go on time We're gonna do it our way and nobody's gonna tell us what else to do and I need everybody in I needed to start exactly on time I needed to finish exactly on time and I need to make sure that we get the 12 Whatever however many talent that we have there that they all make their flights at night and get the hell home because we're gonna do this the day after TV wherever the hell we were somewhere in middle America and There is a task force on the call of people that have been planning this Movie premiere for I don't know how long a month or so now they have been given an asshole who's gonna take over and just Rip up all their shit and and run the day So I'll go to TV and I'm like what do you want out of this and he's like no not what I want. What do you want? So I'd like to go home you know but So we we load everybody on the plane and we fly out there So we we left wherever the hell we were we drank all night long We get into San Diego we get to our hotel then 3 4 o'clock in the morning for a 6 a.m Production meeting at Camp Pendleton And I show up haven't slept Probably still reeking of whatever the hell we were drinking the night before And walk in the room a room full of people some military folks a lot of our folks and and I introduce myself Hi everybody. I'm the asshole Who's got who's got the run of the day and Gentleman gets up starts giving me the run. Yeah, we're not gonna do that And I started looking at it and I just rearrange everything and then they start telling me we have to do this We have to do that we have to do this and I said we're not gonna do any of that This is what we're going to do We are going to do every obligation that we have with the military We're gonna bend over backwards to give them whatever they want. They're the priority here Then we're gonna fulfill whatever obligations that we have To the studio to the distributor Then we're gonna play the movie we're gonna do a very short Q&A on the red carpet outgoing We'll do a red carpet going in but the red carpet will start at this time. It will end at this time in the movie we'll be rolling at Oh five hundred hours or whatever whatever the hell five o'clock is seventeen hundred hours In the movie will end at such such time. We will do this Till this time and then everyone will be in cars heading to the airport John and I will remain behind to do anything that needs to be done afterwards fulfill any obligation that you haven't fulfilled yet We will fulfill afterwards so It's it's going but People are upset because a lot of times the studio will be Looking at things as I have to get this done or I'm gonna I'm gonna get my butt chewed out If I don't get all of these things done They had enough things to do that would have taken us three to four days to do Best case scenario much less in a few hours So they're panic I said guys Shoot documentary style if you have a moment Bam get in and shoot whatever it is you think you can at that time, but I'm not stopping down for anything or anybody I've made really good friends with the commander camp Pendleton during this time because he's an asshole I'm an asshole we're getting along great and He's just he sees that that we're not gonna be We're not messing around we're moving he loves it everything's going on and We're we're on schedule. I mean man, we are on schedule, but it's It's tight and everybody's assholes are puckered and they're all like just scared They're gonna miss something and they're gonna get yelled at but we're fulfilling everything. We're doing it all So now I have one shot because this is this is live We've got a huge crowd there military and their families and everybody and the big wigs from Hollywood are all there and We've got a red carpet. So it's a military red carpet and I got John and his co-star arriving originally Had them arriving in a tank but She didn't want to get her hair blown And it was it was it was the the strings that we pulled to get this tank to come down to the to arrive For the red carpet we eventually did use the tank but not just the way that we wanted to and John Was I was it at the red carpet John was at the staging area and it all hell broke loose and John just took over This isn't gonna arrive in a limo now. We're gonna do this. Just tell Bruce. I've got it. Everything's good So about five minutes late now, I'm piss cuz raw schedule John arrives John arrives and I've got the shots everything I have one shot at John's initial arrival and John's initial response from this audience He arrives Gets out of the car goes to take his co-star out in this one person from the office Who? Sparely knew they were a vice president of something or other came running on to our red carpet hugged John Kissed John and then held his face and told him how proud they were of him And you made it this is so exciting now you're gonna be a big star For John senior arrival to his premiere that was supposed to be fall list John comes out brings his co-star out big nice Wide beauty shot and this person just destroys this shot I I'm sure it exists although I've never seen it footage of me Approaching this person on the red carpet and Letting them know how they have ruined everything to get off my red carpet Get out of the premiere and I never want to see you ever again And I'm serious. I never want to see you ever again if you see me and I don't see you run hide Never want to see you again And they got out Looking to John just as it goes Bruce take two This is co-star back in the car gets in we back it up. That's right Anybody else want to run out kiss John? No good. Let's go We did it. Oh, we got our shot and I never saw that person You remember that person's name I Really don't okay. I have stricken it from the memory. It's one of those, you know, it's like one don't make me learn your name. Yep They introduced themselves to me that day for the first time They introduced themselves as I'm the Senior vice president of whatever the hell And I said hello senior vice president whatever the hell because you have a name or is that your name? So we didn't hit it off first anyway, but no, I have I don't remember their name or really and truly don't this I just it's one of those don't commit it to memory and I have not But then we get John in we do the do the movie Happy for him and we we do a Great thing. I get everybody out on time even a little bit early John stayed back. We satisfied all of the families of the military there and Did our thing we go back to our hotel where we've John hit a range to keep the bar open And I have Been in this business now for over 52 years One thing you don't do is You never miss your flights in the morning to go home ever 52 years One time that was the premier of the Marine We had Started drinking that night and bar was ours. So the guy was staying till we didn't stay anymore And They started doing shots And I'm not a shot guy at all by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not a dark liquor guy I can't can't do brown liquor or anything like that. It just kills me And this had something in it and I did the old Rick flair come a cozy drop John caught me Says you threw out our drink Was like man, I can't do it. This is what can you do? Anything but that So we started doing shots of vodka and other sorted things and I-to-I Pouring them watching each other drink Until I Wake up In my bed Tucked in to my bed Wearing my suit Still in my suit still in my shoes Now you mentioned I said I was tucked into my bed. Yeah I was tucked in I was put in the bed in my suit and The bed was tucked in the sheets and the blankets were tucked in around me and at the feet So I See light coming through the window And I look at the clock and it says 3 30 And I'm thinking yeah, those lights are bright out there Be coming in that much just wow And I go to get out I'm like I'm still dressed I'm tucked in the bed And I got to go to the bathroom so I ripped that out I get out go to the bathroom I come back I open up the windows and it's daylight I Call down the front desk is excuse me. What time is it? 335 In the afternoon yes, sir you missed your checkout Like what in the hell I Never and I when I say I know I have never I've been poured on the planes I've been carried on the planes, but I never miss flights going home And my eye hanging out never miss flight going home and I'm like, oh my god I Call home. It's like yeah, what happened you I don't know and Now I'm looking for Oh my god my briefcase because I had my briefcase in the bar and where the hell is my phone and Look at my briefcase is sitting there with a phone on it Go get the phone. I look at the phone says it my phone Whose phone is this? Now look it's got ton of missed calls on it, but it was on silent so I started looking at it find out whose phone it was and I Call my phone on their phone And I oh god, thank god. I've got your phone So how'd you get my phone? I don't know Passed out so somewhere during the the evening The only one capable would have been mr. Cena Got me back to my room safely Put me in my bed up to me in Put everything in thought he had the right phones and everything and he made sure everybody got the bed safely and Got in their place and make sure I didn't fall out of the bed by tucking it in in every side That is the only time I've ever like passed out and not no not the only time I've ever passed out the only time I ever Passed out and didn't wake up to go home Now call him son John, what's doing me? Oh, we had a hell of a time Great tell me about it because I remember the thing and Yeah, but that's you know again That's kind of a testament to just John's character. He'll he will he will brutalize you, but he'll also take good care of you New episodes every Thursday night at 7 p.m. On YouTube for over 25 years JCW has delivered the very best in pro wrestling entertainment bringing fans deep storytelling drama Gut-busting coming an unbelievable in-ring action from wild characters to unforgettable rivalries Don't miss a single moment tune in every Thursday night at 7 p.m. On YouTube JCW Well, thank you for sharing that let's talk about some folks who maybe took good care of John in the ring Who are some of the veterans if any that you think deserves some credit for helping? Bring John along during his US title run. Maybe Booker T with best of my life Okay, John Layfield big time book without a doubt I think anybody anybody and everybody that John had the opportunity to be in the ring with that was better than him helped him along the way and And there were you know Jericho those guys those guys everybody was willing they saw the All right, this this guy's got it Don't know what it is, but he's got it and I Would say that as far as taking him to the next level and really annoying him and putting him in that top spot I I would have to give that knob to Layfield Let's talk about that for a minute because when his first reign as champion really gets going it starts to feel like we see a pattern John Cena is gonna get heavily booed Against some of the favorite heels. Maybe the more hardcore fans. I'm talking about Kurt Angle Chris Jericho Christian guys like that And then by maybe mid 2005 it feels like booing Cena is just like the cool thing What was the impression that you remember the creative team had of the booing was it clear that it wasn't coming from just You know we've heard that like Philadelphia always cheers the heels It didn't feel like that was this for Cena, but we would hear like against JBL that never happened And and I don't know if that's because JBL was such a hated heel or what the difference was but you worked with him But with with Layfield, yeah, oh, yeah, I get why he's a heel I get that He's completely different than me No, you're the most likable guy around. Yeah, you're really what people might call a white me baby face Yep, that's me So the scene of booze it feels like it's coming from you know young men Adult man teenage man, but boy the kids and the women they're there for Cena in a big way It's a unique dynamic. Do you remember it happening like this at any other time in your tenure in WWE or anywhere else in wrestling where The audience was literally split almost right down the middle and it was like that was unique to John Cena really for the first time Yeah, I think it was It was unique John in the fact that I don't think that when they were booing John that it was out of hatred It was more out of It was fun to do And I think that people were in on the all you know, this is cool to boo John Cena's We're gonna we're gonna boo John Cena when everybody the kids and everything are cheering him because John is the manufactured Guy that they want us to love we're not gonna love them if they're gonna tell us to love So that that's kind of the the vibe that it was more than anything of people feeling that he was being shoved down their throat and that by God, I'm not gonna take that and We're gonna boo it whereas the kids kids loved him and his message was on point and The the women loved him because he What you see is what you get with John. I mean it's it's funny the The human being if you've ever seen a peacemaker That's John That that is the most true-to-life role Think that John's you know really ever played it's it's hilarious in its accuracy but You can't really see through him You think you do you think he's you you think it's not real But it the beauty of it is it is so real That makes any sense Did you see did you notice since we're talking about they're not buying it earlier with Barnett when the boo start Do you notice that it affects his merch sales or did that never waiver? No, okay. No Again, that that's the thing. It's like the they're They're buying this stuff they're paying to see them there look they're engaged They were engaged into what he was doing they cared Give a shit where they love him or hey, they cared they were loud And I believe that even those that were booing, you know always respected him So, you know that is he's an enigma truly an enigma I want to talk a little bit about You know the the sort of neck and neck positioning at that WrestleMania where John Sanham becomes the world champion It's the same time when Batista does and you've told us before that the company was really looking for their next rock and Steve Austin that sort of thing and Maybe not the same version of them, but we're looking for two new top stars So now we've got very clear new top guys on SmackDown and on Raw But is there a particular moment in time where you knew that Cena was gonna be the long time or long term rather franchise Star of the WWE is there one moment that stands out? We're like that's when he separated himself from Batista and went to the next level whatever that may be You know for me, I think that the moment in time for me was when Cena as a heel and doing the rapping heel worked with the Undertaker and And And crossed crossed lines that we had never crossed before with Undertaker From pissing on his bike and and the graveyard disrespect and everything John was able to walk those lines, but John brought it in such an entertaining way that The You know Undertaker is an intimidating character the character itself and then Mark Callaway as well in that John John went there he went there respectfully, but also he went there without fear So when you when I saw that you know and even going back to Doing the rap on Vince to his face There was no hesitation There was no oh shit and now let me think how I can politically correctly do this It was Okay That characteristic early on makes you go okay, they've got it. He's he's got it and And So what I saw it early on but I do think that Once he became champion after beating Bradshaw that that was it That was kind of it. He was on his way and then along the way there were the moments that we even said you've got to turn him heel Just man, let's let's go there and And It was the same reaction that got trying to turn Hulk Hogan heel No, they're never turn him heel so There was a desire to do that and I dare say that Holding the line was the right thing to do At that time because it made John who he is today but Could have been fun But I think that when you ask about that one moment in time where he stepped across the threshold It's probably early on with taker, but then you know took it and grabbed it with layfield Did you think the criticism of his in-ring work was fair because it feels like there was a lot of Criticism, you know when he's having matches with Edge Bobby Lashley umaga CM Punk I thought those were I mean the fans were really into those matches So I don't understand where the criticism comes from like, you know people were saying always the five moves the doom and all that sort of thing But I mean respectfully Steve Austin became the top guy for middle fingers punches and kicks and beers And we didn't need much more than that for Hulk Hogan either like I don't know Was that even a fair criticism at any point to you or was there a point where you felt like oh John's leveled it up He's got it now. Okay. Who are those people making those criticisms? I just mean fans online fans online. Okay Fans online Dave Meltzer those people that are that have zero credibility that did again. Oh, he's horrible He's a horrible worker. I go back to Hulk Hogan I'm asking Hulk Hogan. Who's the best worker in the business at Vince McMahon's Vince makes the most money me. I'm second best So who's the best worker? John was making the most money than John was All right, buddy. Tell the truth if you're listening to this you're probably a guy and being a guy means Last-minute shopping. 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That's a u r a frames.com The promo code is wrestle and this deal is exclusive to listeners frames are gonna sell out fast So order yours now and time to get it for the holiday and support the show by mentioning us at checkout Terms and conditions apply, but it's aura frames.com and the promo code is wrestle And what an interesting time it was to and layfield's always given John a lot of credit once upon a time when he had a podcast maybe people remember that but I'm done a podcast before yeah, he did one with briscoe and this other fat guy from Alabama, but You would in the post attitude era When we had beer and middle fingers and crotch chops and scantily clad women We're also now going to be transitioning to a PG era a family friendly image and to be able to Still maintain financial success for the company when you're removing the scantily clad women and you're removing the beer in the middle fingers And the crotch chops and all the adult themes and we're going to more PG I mean could anybody else have navigated this as well as John Cena did I'm sure that somebody could have but John did do it and John did it with grace and John did it in a way as I said that was able to cross over to mainstream media and To everyone else and give them something to believe in in which They saw wasn't there was nothing to see through and So, you know for that John was that guy John was that standard bearer that was able to do that and When people talk about the good old days and they talk about the attitude error and scantily clad women and the language and everything else that we did it was What do we what are we talking about three years Realistically you're talking about a three-year period that was balls to the wall and and you know crass and and that attitude error and it was it hit hard and it hit fast and it was Very successful for its time Don't know that it stands the test of time when you go back and look at it today I don't know that you can look at it unless you're looking at it through rose colored glasses But if you want to look at it through In the time and it was great. It was a blast. You know, everybody was doing business We were on top of the world but then times change and you also have to look at the business model being a publicly traded company when your responsibilities to the stockholders and You have to do things that are in the best interest of the company Not what you want to do because you want to do because you want to be edgy and you want to be All these other things and you think this is right when your advertisers are saying No, we don't want to advertise with you because we feel that you are too edgy. We can't do Crass language. We can't do the scantily clad women. We can't do the adult content anymore You can give us some more PG Product here's we can open the door here. We can open the door here We can open the door here. We've got a lot more money. We're gonna spend a lot more money on Mars and Nestle and Toys and just everything else Versus the adult Advertisers because the there are more PG advertisers than there are our rated advertisers That's right. It will spend a lot more money And to that you look at okay, we need to change our product. We need our product to adapt We can't go to advertisers Now gosh, you know, can't you can't you do? Do your advertisements from a tell, you know, well, you've got all these middle fingers in the air and what have you? no, you can't and And say the same reason that it's it was difficult to if you if you have a beer You can't you can't have the other advertising all that's changed with the different mediums Today and time frames and everything else, but it's It's it's changed at the time and you couldn't do it and so your responsibility your stockholders takes president which it should and and Cleaned up the act That's what you got to do and John Cena was the right guy to do it with Let's debunk some more rumoring in you endo in the late 2000s and early 2010s Fans online somehow get it in their head that John Cena was a constant politician Always engineering storylines and finishes that seemingly buried his opponents now to be clear This was never in a newsletter. So don't hit me with a dirt sheet narrative, but Nobody's reporting that but where does that come from like Well, if nobody's reporting it then how would anybody hear it? Well sour grapes from former performers like when they would do a shoot interview or what have you though? Oh, yeah, this was supposed to happen and then But fans started to really buy into that and then when you see interviews with John Cena You're like, hmm. I don't know if that makes sense. Can you set the record straight for us? Never experienced it? never experienced and You know, I would think that I would have been at least during the time I was there and during the time You know, even even now I will say I've never I've never experienced John Cena doing that to anyone And to the contrary John Cena has always been the type of performer of Tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it right What if we did it this way? Okay How about if we did it this way? What do you think of this? John's always gonna try and make it better, but I I've never I've never experienced me. I Have never experienced John ever coming and Trying to hold anybody down to the contrary Seeing John go and go. Wow. What if we did something with him when we did something with her? We did something with them coming up with plenty of ideas for other people To try to elevate because he was always looking for the next person to work with right so those You know and and the the only thing I've ever seen is his stuff that it has come from like the melchers in the shirts The sheets that are probably just repeating whatever Somebody may have said on whatever There's a handful of talent that didn't enjoy as much success as they would have liked in WWE and they've been vocal about Anti John Cena stuff, but I I always kind of viewed that in the same lens that people used to say that about Hogan too Like that's just right off of being one of the top guys, right? Exactly. Yeah, they said it about Hogan. They said it about Savage said about water said about Brett said it about Sean said it about Steve said it about rock and said it about anybody anybody that had achieved a level of success that they had not been able to achieve, right? well Of course, I'm not there because they don't want me there It's much easier to blame someone else and look in a mirror So listen, let's talk about it. You spent about a decade away from WWE and you come back and John is winding down his time as an active wrestler What had changed the most about him just the maturation of the guy the the guy behind the scenes the human being Because when you leave he's obviously, you know a few years into his run, but man a decade later He's still on top doing it in a big way and I have to imagine that the human being was a little different by then, right? Not really okay And again, that's kind of the the beauty of it all Is the John Pretty what you again is what you see is what you get and For me and my dealings with him have always always been good and he's always been Brutally honest and I Just give me a hundred of him We'd have a hell of a roster So it's his his work ethic if anything may have gotten even stronger but he Is much more Detailed You know now even more so just because he has so many irons in the fire and is doing so many different things Right asked me he's very structured But he always was you know He was structured in the way that he worked out the way that he ate the way that he he handled his business everything was very meticulous and He has to do that just because he's doing so many different things but the human being I Would man I think he is first-class all the way the amount of work that he does or Make a wish you know during COVID I know everybody heard the story about The kid that that left Ukraine and his mother the only way his mother could get him to leave was she told him that she was taking him to meet John Cena and They fled across the country and got somewhere else in in I believe in the United Kingdom somewhere and they Interviewed the mother and she says your son autistic son and How did he handle this journey? He says well? I just told him that he was going to meet his hero John Cena and You know one day Well stirring COVID John was on a movie set Overseas there are no Not a lot of international flights without so many restrictions and what have you and John had a weekend off Was able to get a jet flew to this kid to meet him flew to this kid got a car drove however many hours to go meet with this kid to to meet him and So that the mother didn't have to worry about you know, so she wasn't lying to her son and He had this incredible journey, but John just heard this story wasn't Other than the family and everybody's shooting stuff, you know camera crews there. There was no big wasn't Anybody interviewing him or anything like that But then afterward the family and the mother were like oh John Cena did this and did that John didn't do that John just went to go see this kid as a hell of a story and Wanted to make it okay for that for that kid the the other part of it is as he's calling us going I have no merchandise I Don't know can you guys you couldn't ship things During this time like you if you were shipping a package it would take Two weeks to get there Through all the different machinations because of COVID or whatever We were able to get people overseas That had you know some of our stuff in a distribution warehouse or whatever be able to get stuff Then drive it here to drive it there to drive it there to deliver to John's that John had something to give the kid And that's that's who John Cena is that that's the human being Didn't want any credit for it didn't want big hoopla about it You got big hoopla just because people were so blown away by that story But that is the human being and that's the guy that I know that's the guy that would walk through Through coals to do something for make-a-wish kid It's it's not a question of will you do it? It's when would you like me to do it? What do you need? how can I help and I Seen him get mad But John Cena mad and flying off the handle is is not something that you'll ever see Will you ever see John go? Hey guys? Can I please talk to everybody real quick? I Don't want this ever happen again. Blah blah blah blah blah And that that's gonna be a pissed off John Cena never seen throw things and get pissy or unprofessional in any way And I know it sounds like it's all goddamn company line. Oh boy. I was saying bad about John Cena protecting him now It's I don't I don't understand why people want to just look for for negatives when There's there is so much positive that that you can't you're just trying to create negatives that don't exist in a narrative that just doesn't exist and Again man, give me give me John Cena any day of the week You know having dinner with him and is is we leave my wife hugs him and says oh my god, he goes John you smell great and John Hitting me in the car saying hey Bruce. Hey, what's your home address? That's into us. What's up? There's nothing because I just I noticed I didn't have your home address Next day getting his cologne set Because my wife says he smells great That's awesome, what a great story, but I mean that's who he is you people Without this forum There's so many people been touched and have so many different John Cena stories like that that It's just an everyday occurrence and you know you see the the videos and all these things where When when people are being rude and John John will call you out He doesn't respectfully And And he's right man. He it's like you know, he'll he'll bend over backwards for you, but man. Don't invade his privacy It's just he's just a human being too He's a famous human being but It's like Give him a break Did you put Christmas on a credit card? 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I loved us. I loved his stuff with edge Love just stuff with Brock The stuff they did with rock I thought was excellent and You know, obviously I will go back to the early stuff with Bradshaw. I'll go back to stuff with Kurt angle and Undertaker I think John is you know, John makes it. He makes it work and You know more power to a man. He's still making it work What do you think of the way John's in ring style has sort of transitioned, you know It feels like when you look at his early stuff, he was more meat and potatoes brawler and and it's evolved now. I mean, it's a I think so. I think if you see his early stuff and you see his more recent stuff, you would you would agree Yeah, I Think he has evolved and I think that he changed with the times as they wanted him to change So I think he evolved as the business evolved while still being true to who John Cena is You know, it feels like when you think about the story of the WWF I mean Hulk Hogan helped make it a national or global brand and Brett Hart carried it through the rough times and kept the lights on with his international drawing power and Steve Austin made the company so hot it went public What will be the defining trait of John Cena a top WWE do you think I think John brought it to the next level and brought it to the next level with grace and Put it Put it in Mainstream media in a in a very respectful way So John doing his his tour of duty on the today show You know a wrestler being a co-host on a morning, you know talk show morning news talk show Every single day and you know John did that tremendously he's he's the voice of Honda. He's the voice of you know, pistachios and It's he has ingrained himself in In our mainstream world I Dare say more so than than any other Wrestler, you know in in our time, you know, Hulk Hulk was Hulk Nobody's ever gonna touch Hulk and Hulk was first and wouldn't be here probably if it weren't for him What he did for the business and for the talent I think that John Kept it going and then John took it to another level Rock did his thing and rock did his thing in in Hollywood and is still one of the most recognizable humans On the face of this earth, but you know while rock is that you know rock is not You don't hear his voice every commercial break somewhere Somehow John I feel like every commercial break his voice is doing something or he's in something and It's just accepted and it's just hi, it's John Cena And people you know, they just know who he is and like him I Think we all like John Cena and I think we're all thankful that we got to spend so much time with him And what an interesting idea it was to do a big farewell tour We want to know from you guys, what are some of your favorite John Cena memories? Drop them in the comments below and maybe we'll highlight those next week here in the program, but there man You know a lot of guys they don't know when they're gonna have their last match they realize later Oh, I guess that was my last match Yeah, I'm kind of glad that John Cena got to go out on his terms. That's the way it's supposed to be don't you think? Yeah, look the self-awareness to to say I'd like to I'd like to have a last run I Like everyone to know this is my last run Don't need to win. Don't you know, I just want to have a last run. I'd like to I would like to go around and basically say goodbye and He deserves that He's a huge mega mega star and a huge part of this company and our culture in general so Look, I don't think it's the last time you're gonna see John Cena. I do believe John Cena in that It will be the last time you will see him in the ring wrestling, right that I believe He's he's a man of his word and he's steadfast in his conviction that he is you know, this is this is it and Whether you know, he comes back obviously there's a Hall of Fame somewhere in his future and You know from time to time and a special occasion For John to appear somewhere and do something but I don't think you're gonna see him ever in the ring ever again beyond This is the December event Well, we greatly appreciate you spending so much time with us today Bruce and talking about John Cena I know he's somebody that you really care about and have spent a lot of time with is it obviously It's all about John Cena But is it kind of bittersweet for you to like you're happy for your friend John that he's getting to do exactly what he wants but Part of you is like, oh man We should had some more time together because you've mentioned earlier. Hey give me a hundred John Cena's I'll be a little disappointing for you, too It kills me. I've known about this for two years and we've we've planned this and As you get into it It's it becomes commonplace and then you get down to the point of like Four dates left or oh my god Wait, wait guys, we have ten dates left, you know, and then it's Very surreal I'm extremely happy for him in that he's had this opportunity to travel across the world to say goodbye to his fans and for his fans to be able to see him live in the ring one last time and That's special and you don't always get to To see that and or to know it and experience it and take the ride with one of your favorites So it's extremely bittersweet and I I love John to death is a performer but more so as a human being because he's a stand-up class human being and Everything that he does You know John is is not is not one of those guys that Is going to embarrass you and Just I'm happy so happy for all of his success and he deserves every single thing he gets Couldn't have said it better myself for big John Cena fans and we're dreading that one day We won't be able to see him But we hope to see you next week right here hit that subscribe button turn on your notifications bell and let everybody know Bruce is back and so will something to wrestle next Friday right here on something to wrestle with Bruce Richard. Hey Conrad. Hey bud. You know what what's that? Sometimes Jimmy jamb came along Those were the best times now they're gone His spin ten years since he came in around Oh, miss miss friend Hey, we got it we got it to a million views Free bird road over on YouTube go check it out and tell your friends Bruce Richards back baby something to wrestle calm See you next week right here rock on