#588 - Avery Anna on Viral Success, Hate Comments & Rules of The Tour Bus

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. What's genuine and authentic will always work for you. And if you're trying to be something else, if you're trying to be viral, it's just not going to work. You just have to say what you want to say and not just say something to say something. Hey, guys, welcome to the Bobbycast. We're going to be talking with Avery Anna, who is a great songwriter, great artist. But I stumbled across one of her TikToks where she's playing an Ozzy Osbourne song, and it kind of blew my mind. So we'll talk to her growing up in Arizona. She's going to bring her favorite records and songwriting, and how hard it is to be super vulnerable. So here it is, me, the Bobbycast from Nashville, Tennessee, with Avery Anna. Avery, it's nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you. I did something with you to get you up here that I haven't ever done. I saw one TikTok video and just commented and was like, you have to come up. And I went back looking before you came in to look at your TikTok just to see if there was anything I wanted to talk about. I never realized that you took that message and responded to it. Responded, yeah, I did. That you doing Ozzy Osbourne, no more tears. It's so cool. Thank you. Did you expect, and maybe you did, but I'm not sure the reaction you got from it, did you get a massive reaction for doing that song? I really did. It's been a big, it's been a popular topic of conversation. Why did you do that song? How did you know that song? How did you know to do that song? I just did. I don't know. I love Ozzy Osbourne. I grew up on Ozzy Osbourne in the car with my dad. He's like a drive fast, listen to some rock music type of guy. And so we would like, whenever we went hunting or on like a back roads drive, he was like always just ripping in and playing rock music. I don't know, I was just, I just wanted to do it one day. I remember we were touring in Europe and I said we should cover No More Tears After It's Just Raining, because that's ironic. I have a song called It's Just Raining that's like, it's delusional. It's like, I'm not crying, it's just raining. And then singing No More Tears After That, it would just be funny. And everyone laughed at me except for my guitar player. Everyone was like, oh, you could never cover that song. And then I did. And people either love it or they hate it. So it's been like a war between, I think. People hate it? I don't know. Some people are like, this is awesome. Majority of people are like, this is awesome. But I think I'm getting like my first hate comments that I've ever gotten in my life. You know why that's good? Because that means, well, and that means you're also, there are so many people. And once you get to the point of so many people seeing something, you're just gonna get negative. Right. It doesn't matter how good it is. Right, it's just funny too, cause no one really, like you didn't expect it. No one really expects it from me. Cause I'm like a five foot four blonde girl that sings songs about her exes, you know? A couple things, the juxtaposition of, yes, you, a five foot four blonde girl that sings about, I wasn't gonna say it like that. But that, and then also even like what you're wearing, cause you're like cool and feminine. Yeah, just girl. And then you have an electric guitar. And I saw people questioning if you were even playing the song. Right. Because they didn't think that you were playing the song that you were playing. I think it would be more impressive if I wasn't playing. Cause that would be harder to like fake. Like it would really genuinely be harder. But no, I sat down and it's not, it's really not a hard song to play. It's just like open D. So. You put out the song, the live version. Was that, when did that, when did that become a plan? Did it get so big where like I have to put it out now? Yeah, it was just. Everybody asking for it. Everyone was talking about it. Everyone, since the first video, everyone was begging for me to release, like release a version of it, like let alone a live version of it. So we just recorded it one day. And it was really fun because my band, we have this joke cause I am very, I love butterflies and it's like all over my branding and just my life. I've always loved them. And like the symbolism of them. And so I was telling him a story about my, my sister and I when we shared a room, we didn't have AC in our house. And so in the summer we would open our window and the moss would come in and we would kill the moss with our flip flops. Anyways, long story short, I told my band that they thought it was funny and then they named themselves the Moth Guts. And so the Moth Guts got a feature on the song and they were really excited about it to like have all of their moments and their solos and stuff. Do you feel like you have to play at every show now? Yeah, I mean, it's my favorite part of the show. I know people are excited to like hear my songs and I'm excited to play my songs and they're all very emotional and it's a really cathartic experience. I've never really felt anything like it with this specific album. So No More Tears is kind of like a moment to, I don't know, kind of get away from that but also rage at the same time, which is fun. Something else that I enjoyed was you are a whistling, you're proficient at whistling. Now did you get good at whistling before you started performing? Or did you think, man, I could add this to the arsenal. I learned to whistle. Right, no, I've just always whistled. My grandpa also taught me to whistle. Around the same time he taught me to play the guitar or the first chord on the guitar, but I just whistle everywhere I go. It's probably annoying to most people. I'm sure my team gets sick of me, but I'm just always whistling. It's hard to whistle though in a microphone because different than- Yeah, because it's like- Yeah, because the air is coming out. It could blow into the microphone. Can you whistle now? Yeah. Okay, can you give me a little? Okay, I can't laugh. Okay. Wait, I'm getting nervous, Bobby. Okay. Is the key not to blow right into the microphone? Yeah, just go like this. Like on stage, I'll be like- You can like vibrato with it too. It's better when I'm just like cleaning something at my house or like doing a chore. It sounds great on stage. Thanks. I'm not a very good whistler. Oh, thank you. There's a lot of wind that comes out. Lot of wind, very little whistle. You say you didn't have an air conditioner in your house. Yeah, growing up. In Arizona? In Arizona. Why did you have an air conditioner in your house growing up in Arizona? I don't know. Well, I lived in Flagstaff, so we have winters and snow and like a ski resort and stuff, so it did get cold in the winter, so we didn't really need one. In the summer it was blazing hot, but it's what windows are for. And we had like a house fan. I didn't know there were parts of Arizona that had seasons. Like my completely uneducated view, and I've been to obviously Phoenix and Scottsdale and Tempe, and I've never been to a place where it wasn't 110 degrees. Most people don't really know that seasons exist in Arizona because they've only ever been to like the Phoenix area, which is like my least favorite part of Arizona. But Flagstaff's like, we have a mountain and we're 45 minutes from Sedona. The stars are amazing, because fun fact, they found Pluto there. They like discovered it there. So there's a bunch of rules about light pollution. So it was a really beautiful place to grow up. It's a big part of like who I am, I think. So people can't have a lot of lights on because they want people to be able to see the stars? So all, yeah, that, but all, like you can't have big football lights, or if you do, they're like covered. Like all of your lighting has to be like covered so that it's reflecting down rather than up. It's gorgeous there. It's really cool. Like high school football. Yeah. The lights have to- Well, they still have like those big, but they all have to be like covered on the top. They can't like go up. Because they want everybody to appreciate the stars. Right. And there's an observatory there. So they have to be able to like look around. When did you start doing music? Like professionally or just- No, just doing it to where it was more than just something you were tinkering with. It was always like breathing to me, whether I was listening or writing or singing. It was just something that I needed to do. When did you start writing songs? I don't know, probably in like third grade. Really? Yeah. I remember like my first like legit, legit song was when I was in seventh grade. I liked this boy and we didn't even, like he didn't even know I liked him, I think. And they started liking another girl and I wrote a song called Fool's Gold about him. And then I like released it when I was a freshman in high school and he was like star of the basketball team. And so everyone called him Fool's Gold. They're all of high school. Did that ever work out? No, no, but we're like friends and stuff. He's a great guy. Do you ever perform that one? No, I did it. I played my hometown flag staff for the first time this year. And I played it there. How do you feel about a song now that you wrote in seventh grade? Can you appreciate what you were doing without judging how good the song is? I really look back on songs I wrote like two weeks ago and I think I cringe every time. It's like looking back at old journal entries. I'm just like, wow, really? But I can also, I'm learning to appreciate things for like the time that they served, I guess. But I don't know, I'm changing so fast and like evolving so differently and so much. Especially I'm like, I'm only 21. So I feel like every year I'm like a new person. So, I'm changing. That'll never change. And it'll also never change that you won't look back and cringe as long as you're growing. Well, to be cringes, to be free. So. Man, I don't feel free when I'm cringing on my stuff. I hate it. I have realized though that if I don't cringe at it, then I haven't grown enough from it. So if I look back at something on television or a joke I wrote or I don't really listen to the podcast or radio shows back. But if I do and I'm like, oh, I like that I have that feeling because it lets me know that I feel I'm better than that now and that I've grown from that. Wow, that's a really good perspective. I love that. I have to find ways to not want to jump off ledges. And so that's how I've convinced myself not to jump off the ledge because it means I must feel like I'm way better than that and I've grown from that. Where do you feel like you are in your career now? Like if you were to name this season, give it a title. This season, I would say this is the season of like the roots of the tree. I feel like the last season that I was in was very, it was lots of connection with strangers and fans and the Lekalitters was fan inspired and it wasn't just an album. It was really like everywhere in my life. It was just a lot of honesty and vulnerability and connecting with people. This season, I think I'm really like putting my foot down and saying what I want, which have never really been like that ever in my life. I finally feel like I have a voice and like I can have the confidence to like, I don't know, be who I am and embody like my roots really. Are there, that record came out last May, right? Yeah. Were there any songs on that record that were so honest and vulnerable that you thought maybe they were too honest and vulnerable? Yes, every single one. Every single one. In different ways? In completely different ways because I've always been a vulnerable writer. That's how I cope. That's how lots of songwriters cope with just the experiences that they're having in their lives. But man, every song off of the last record was not just songs that I felt like I could relate to. Like I felt I was getting something off of my chest. I had started like the Lekalitters at my shows a couple of years ago because I was singing, you know, Narcissist on stage and watching people scream it back to me. And it was really cool because I was like, oh my gosh, people know, people are knowing my stuff. But at the same time, it was really sad because that was an experience that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. And all of these people could relate and not only relate, but they were like sharing their stories with me that were far worse than anything I've ever experienced. And so I invited people to just write down one thing they wanted to let go of the show. And I used to say in interviews that I'd never write about someone else's experiences and then I was so wrong. And people shared, you know, the whole spectrum of things that they struggle with that it's crazy when someone's given the opportunity to like anonymously share like what they'll say. And so I just remember the whole time that I was writing the album and thinking about it and just preparing for it to be released. I was like very anxious about it. But at the same time, also very confident in it. And I felt that it was really important to say even though it was honestly a lot harder on me and my personal life. I get, my personal life took a toll because of it, but it was worth it because it created such a beautiful space for people to like connect. So I remember like even when we wrote Grave and Danny don't, it just feels very dark and sad, but I don't know, I think it's good to expose those feelings sometimes because people don't really talk about that stuff. They're like different levels of vulnerability and we'll call it creation because first off, when you're writing with someone, you're vulnerable with that one or two people. If it's a three way ride or if it's a co-write, like you kind of have to pour your guts out in an uncomfortable way. Yeah, you walk in the room and you're like, so this is everything I'm dealing with right now. Like when we wrote Narcissus, I just opened my journal and I like read my journal entries. That's so hard to do. It's so weird, especially because I'm still very new to town. But at the time I was like very, very new and I was in the room with three grown men being like, hey. Here's my journal. Here's my journal. And everyone's always like, oh, like are you okay? And I'm like, I'm great because we're like writing about it. So it's just like that is therapy. It genuinely is. And I know artists say that all the time, but it's like so true. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on the Bobby cast. So that's the first level. The second level is once you get through that initial, what feels like awkwardness to you, but a special writers that have been around a long time, they understand the game. You don't know what they understand at this point. You're just pouring your guts out, hoping you're not being judged. And in the end, you realize nobody's judging because everybody's been through it. But so you write the song, you get through that. But now you've recorded it, either a work tape or a demo. And so now you gotta play that for people that weren't part of the write. And so now they're hearing for the first time, whatever vulnerability is that you wrote. That also is tough to do. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't anticipate, I didn't anticipate or prepare myself for, it was one thing to be vulnerable in the writing room. And then that album or those songs turned into kind of a business. And then at the live show, it was like, oh, I'm telling a thousand people that I wanna die sometimes. That's weird. It's weird. But not only was I saying that, it was like everyone in the room had something, like had a piece of each song. So it was really, it was special. And then that final layer of vulnerability is, yeah, when it gets released to the public. Because then people, and I do this, I'm sure you do this too, we interpret music differently. Just from hearing it. We probably don't know the whole story unless we hear the artist talk about it. So we're associating however we feel about that body of work to the body of work. And like you said, a lot of people have stories based off of your version of your story. Right. When I wrote my first book, and even my second book a little bit, there's a lot of really personal stuff in there. And it was extremely cathartic to write it. And it felt vulnerable, but I was just writing. So nothing's gonna hurt me if I'm just writing it down and only I'm reading it. When I gave it to my editor, I kind of felt, oh, am I getting judged? Right. And I was really anxious before it came out. The first book came out. Because I didn't want people to feel sorry for me. Yeah, that's a big thing for me too. Really big thing. Like I don't want your sympathy. I'm telling you my story. So hopefully you relate or you find a version of your story that you can see in me and understand you're not alone, that type thing. And what I found was, because after I put out my first book, I went on a touring doing stand up and I would do meet and greets. And I wouldn't say there was shame because maybe there was shame that I felt people were judging me. More than, because I had no shame in what I wrote about. Like my parents dying of drug abuse or what I had been through. There wasn't shame in what I did, but hopefully I could get through how people felt about me. But what I realized was everyone was like, the things that I worried most about, the people were like, I felt that. I appreciate that the most. Like the things I was most scared of people hearing were the things that resonated the most with people. I was shocked by that. Is that how you feel too? I was actually gonna bring that exact thing up is when I felt anxious about a song, I knew that that was important to release. Cause the things that you feel anxious about people knowing about you, the things you're ashamed of, it's also very possible that the person sitting next to you in the same room is ashamed of the exact same thing. And I really realized that with narcissists, but especially vanilla, it's been a really big one. It's about boundaries and saying no, it's like a girl. So when I write a song and I'm anxious about it, or that kind of makes me feel a little scared, I know that that's what I should do. If I'm like, oh, this is really cool. And I'm just like, well, the law, like maybe this isn't like, you know, the most important thing to put on a record. How do you deal with boundaries? I used to be terrible. Terrible. I was the girl that was like a people pleaser and I identified in it too, which is really dangerous cause I think- It's part of your personality? It was part of my personality, especially in high school and just all growing up. And I felt like the girl that anyone could, you know, come to if they needed help, but also anyone could, you know, someone could run me over with a car and I'd be like, I'm so sorry, you know? But I also didn't want to be perceived as like rude or bossy or anything like that. But now I think music is, and doing it as a job has really forced me to like set boundaries and I think I used to look at boundaries or like saying no as being rude or being mean, but now I think it's like the biggest act of love you could do for somebody, you know? And it's incredibly efficient. It is efficient and it's really interesting to see now in my life when I can, I'm able to set boundaries like how people react. Cause I think sometimes if you set boundaries with people and they're like, they freak out on you and I think that kind of goes to show who should be in your circle and who you should kind of keep at an arm's length, you know? I think that's a great point. The people that respect my boundaries are the people that I understand are with me for the right reasons. Totally, same. The big, big, big lesson this past year for me. Really? Yeah. So, 2025 was a year of growth. We're in 26 now, right? Yeah. So you're already full grown now? Oh, so full grown. No, just kidding. No, it's fun to grow and evolve and learn and all that. So I'm sure this year will be full of just as many lessons, but. Do you ever go downtown to Broadway? No. Did you have your phase where you did that? No, I don't like, I don't like part of your drinker. I don't either, but when I moved here, I went because I thought that's what you did when you moved here. You know, I moved here when I was 17 and I just didn't really like go out. I mean, I wasn't old enough to go in the bars anyways. And so. You just now are, right? I just, yeah, I'm 21. Yeah, that's why I was asking. Do you, when you turn 21, even though you don't, do you go? Right, if I maybe like establish that earlier, I mean, I could now. Yeah. No interest. I mean, I will be the life of the party on a diet coke. Don't get me wrong. So. Do you not drink at all? No. I don't have, I've never had a drink. Right. Have you? That's why we're best friends. Have you had a drink? No. No, no, no, I've tasted alcohol before. How does it taste? Yeah. Um, really bad. It's terrible. It's like. It smells bad to me. It smells bad. It smells like pee. It tastes like. Not good. I don't know why people like it. I know that if I drank, I would drink a lot cause I would do everything. Right. Times a hundred. Okay. And I just know I would be like, peanut colada boy. Peanut colada. It would be, I would drink the most fruit, fruit, fruity drinks. So I would be down two, two slippery slopes. It'd be like, I'd be drinking like crazy. And also it would be the fruitiest. You ever see those like dancing women that have all the fruit on top of their head? That'd be what all the drinks would look like that I would have. That's funny. Yeah. I would need, I would need a lot of sugar. In mine. You moved here at 17? I did. Was that, if I'm doing the math, was that around COVID? It was right after COVID. So I moved here. Did you finish high school during COVID? I did zoom online for half of my junior year. And then I moved July, the end of July of 2021. And I finished my senior year online. And you just knew you wanted to move to Nashville? No, I didn't. I didn't even know this was a possibility for me. I didn't think I was that good. I always loved music and it was, music was more of like a, like breathing. Like I said, for me, it was a very private thing unless I was singing in church. And when I like went viral for singing in the bathtub during COVID. And then I got in contact with my managers and I signed a record deal and I moved. Like after I signed a record deal. Wait in that order? And within the span of six months. I got in contact with my managers October of 2020. And then we like started releasing some music. And then I had like every now in hindsight, I had like every label in town wanting to meet with me. And I met with like, I think we did like 13 zoom meetings. And then I signed with Warner. How do you pick a label when you're only meeting with them over zoom? I don't know. I don't know. I'm a very spiritual person, very like intuitive. Like I trust my gut most of the time. And I just felt really good about Warner. And they just felt like very endearing. And like they actually cared about what I had to say, not just kind of like wanting to, you know, sign a viral sensation and let it be what it is. It felt like genuine. So I signed and then I moved. And I didn't even know. Like I knew about the Grand Ole Opry, but I didn't really know that Nashville was like the place you go to become, you know, a country music star. I guess I should have known that, but I just didn't really like put the pieces together in my head. I didn't even know what I wanted to do with my life. And then I was just like, this feels right. And I moved and I lived in the house by myself for, like, while I was finishing school. It was crazy. At 17? At 17. Were you emancipated? No, no. My parents are very supportive of me. I just have three other siblings they had lives to do and work to do. And I'm self-sufficient. So I was just like, I just, I'm very indecisive. Like I said, I brought two records, but that was the only decision in my life that I've ever been like, this is the right thing to do. And I know it. And I remember telling my mom that and everyone in my family, like my extended family and our friends and everyone in my town thought that I was crazy and that my parents were crazy for letting me do that. But I think both of my parents and myself just felt a lot of peace that it was like the right thing. I don't know. What does Nashville like when you move here and start to see other people who are doing what you're trying to do? It's really cool. You would think that it's intimidating and it is at times, but I just feel like the little girl inside of me that wanted to talk to everyone about Patsy Klein that no one really cared, because everyone called me grandma growing up. I just loved the classic country, but everyone here has their own music taste and everyone's really passionate about it and there's so much talent. It was just really like creatively, I was like very, very stimulated and I was just starry-eyed at it. I'd never even been to the side of the country. So I didn't know that there was this many trees here and I remember I was like driving down the road and I was like, one of these days, I'm gonna plow down one of these mailboxes and trash cans, because the roads are so narrow too. So a lot of things that, it was a very big culture shock for me going from Arizona to Tennessee. What do you do at 18, 19 years old here when you're living by yourself? When you make friends, right? Do you go to songwriter rounds? Like how do you make your circle? I met a lot of my friends at church, but it was really hard for me because I wasn't going to school or anything, so it wasn't like I had people my age to socialize with. I was really just riding all the time with people that were late 20s, 30s, 40s, so all my friends were way older than me because I consider the people that I write with my friends and my brothers too. So I remember my first co-write was with Ben Williams and Andy Sheridan and they're still like my big brothers to this day, so that was really cool. And yeah, I met people at church and I went to the grocery store and didn't know what to buy and I was like, I bought avocado and some apples and the beef, I still don't really know how to cook because I'm touring now and I don't really need to, but yeah. What's it like to go viral? Looks fabulous. I'm sure you totally understand, but it looks fabulous when you're on the other side of the screen and when you're looking at all the millions of views and likes and it's really cool because it gave me my career, really did. So I'm really grateful for what it is, but the adrenaline dump after going viral is a big thing too, that was challenging that I wasn't anticipating. What do you mean by that? It's interesting to go from music being something that you do for fun to all of the sudden, it's your livelihood and when you go viral, it's instant gratification, it's very stimulating, you are kind of on like a cloud nine and then if your next video only gets a thousand views rather than two million views, it's like, oh, if this gave me my success, could it also take it away? And that thought was something that I struggled with a lot in the beginning and I was very conscious of what I was posting and trying to still be as good as I was when I was mega viral and I don't know, you kind of just learn the longer that you do it, that it's just, it all comes in waves and what's genuine and authentic will always work for you and if you're trying to be something else, if you're trying to be viral, if you're trying to be, commercial if you're not, if you're trying to be artsy if you're not, it's just not gonna work, you just have to really go with your gut and say what you wanna say and not just say something to say something, you know what I mean? Yeah, not just add to your feed because you feel like you need to add to your feed. Right, not just, I think that that's a very, it works for a lot of people and a lot of people have found success that way from being consistently posting every single day, like three videos a day and I had a lot of pressure to do that very early on and it's just not right and it's not natural for people to, like surely no one has something to say three times a day. No, I don't and I have to talk for six hours a day. I don't either and I feel very, it sucked the creativity out of me until I realized how to set boundaries with it. The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is The Bobby Cast. It's gotta be messing with your mind when you crush, crush and then you do a video you think is probably even better than the ones that crushed and it doesn't. Yeah. And I get in that trap too, where I'll do a couple, even thematically does great, does great. Oh, this one's even better and it does way worse. And then I start to question, do I even know what I'm doing? It's so interesting too, because sometimes a song will do really well live for me and it'll be a really big, like a really big moment in the show and then online it won't translate. But I don't know, I just decided that I'm gonna speak when I have something to say and post and I don't have something to post that is of quality. That's one of my resolutions this year. Whenever you sang in the bathtub, did that pop the first time? Yeah. Yeah, it was at like 10 million views, I think. And I was honestly, I never would have posted my singing on TikTok if it weren't for COVID because I was very conscious of what people thought about me and in my school. Did you sing in public at all? I did a talent show one time. Oh, you're talking one time. So it wasn't something you were doing? No, I've never played a show before this. I'd never played a show. I wasn't gigging. I mean, I was, I sang in church, but I come from a very traditional reverent church. It wasn't like worship band. It was like me and a piano. Yeah, hymns. It was very sacred. And so music has always been really sacred to me. So for that to go, from that to this is, it's crazy. It's literally insane for me. Was it one of those where you posted and then you didn't realize it was so viral? And then you look at your phone or did you have your notifications on where you could feel it? I've always had my notifications off for social media, but I remember I sang Say Something in the bathtub. Lady Gaga? No, no, Christina Aguilera. Say something. Great big world, but she sings it as well. But she sang it with them? Yes. Got it. I sang that. Wait, how does it go? Say something. I'm giving up on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it. And it was just, it was a place, I sang in the bathroom because that was the one place in the house that no one was in. And I have, like I said, three siblings and everyone was doing their school and I was supposed to be doing my school, but I would just like mute. I remember it was always during culinary. I'd mute my culinary class on Zoom and just sing in the bathtub. And the Q6 were getting there and my parents have a luxurious bathtub. And then it went viral and I didn't want to tell my mom. Cause I was like, surely she'll tell me I need to delete TikTok. Like she didn't even know TikTok was a thing. And so my cousin was living with us at the time. She was going to college at NAU and it was at like eight million views and it had been like a couple of days I think. And she was like, Tess, I've been trying to go viral on TikTok for months now. And Avery just went viral like this is really huge. This is cool. She's going to be famous. And my mom was like, those aren't real people. Like you guys are so silly. She's like, that's just the internet. Those aren't like real people. And I think she was in denial cause she was like, what is happening? And then I just kept posting and it kept going viral. What'd you do second? I don't know. I think I did a Harry Styles cover. I, Were you thinking about it a lot on your second one or was it just let me just pick something? No, I wasn't even thinking like, My brain was not business calculated at all, at all. Not an ounce of it in my body. I was just like, this is fun. This song makes me want to cry. Let's sing it, you know. When that first video popped were managers or labels in your DMs already or was it a couple or few in? I didn't check my DMs, but it was like a week or two after. I was like, oh, like this major record label just DM'd. They wanted me. And I remember I had just ignored them or kept saying no to people. And I just got one DM from David Fanny and I don't know what it was about it, but I felt like, hmm, like, I just felt like I needed to reply. And I replied with like, how much money is this gonna cost me? And he was like, nothing. Like, if anyone says it's gonna cost you anything, like run the other way. And then I met with him and it just, the rest is history, I can't even, it went so fast, it was just like the blink of an eye. Did the Parmalee guys put David Fanny onto you? They did. They were scrolling through TikTok with David. I think they read his house or on the bus, maybe, I can't remember, but Matt was like, this girl's really good, you should check her out. And then David DM'd me. And then Parmalee was full circle Parmalee, had me feature on a song, Forget You on their album. And that was really cool for me, cause I've been listening to their music since they started, I think. You said a minute ago you were in a culinary class on Zoom, but then you said way before that you didn't know how to cook. I still don't know how to cook. Like, I can, I think I could if I needed to. But people always ask me like, what I eat or what I ate when I first moved here, like what did I cook for myself? And I genuinely don't know. But why don't you take in a culinary class? Right, but I would. But it was also on Zoom. I would pause it so I could sing. Oh, how do you pause a Zoom? I would just turn off my camera and the mic and I turned the camera on. And let them just keep going and you would just sing. Right. Got it, that makes sense. So I guess maybe I should make up for lost time and take a culinary class one of these days. No, at this point you got enough going on. Right. You don't have to worry about that. Are you on a bus yet? I was for this last tour, which was the first. Game changer, right? Game changer. It was the first time I had a bus. Talk about that. Like not just a bus, but I don't, unless you've been in it, it's hard to understand how much easier the bus makes life. And why people just don't grab buses because they're so expensive. People don't comprehend the difference between like van touring and bus touring. Tell me about van touring. So before van touring, I was driving around in my SUV around the country opening for like Josh Turner and Martina McBride and Chase Rice. And playing my piano and queuing like tracks on my own, which I will never do that again. It was a time, it was like a piano recital for people before they, you know, were singing songs about beer. So it was really funny. But after that, yeah, I had a band for the first time, which was really cool. And when you tour in a van, you drive in the morning, you play the show, and right after the show, if you're not, you know, sometimes I would go on stage and sing with the artist I was opening for. But then you drive through the night too. And depending on the routing, which my routing was always kind of rocky. Remember there was a show, we drove, we were in New York and had to drive to, I think it was Michigan for a festival. And you guys have to drive. And we had to, I also was like, I know how to pull a trailer, I grew up doing that with horses and everything. And there was only, it was me, my guitar player, and my drummer for a while. Shifting. Shifting and people don't realize it takes a while to like find a team, it takes a while to find a band, especially if you don't grow up with people, like playing music, a lot of artists get the luxury of like growing up with the people around them and the crews and the band and everything, but I didn't know anybody. So it took me a while to like find people that fit. And so yeah, we ended up driving like through the entire night and we played the show late at night and then the next show was a festival. So it was at like three, I was playing in a tent. And you're exhausted. And I had no sleep. I didn't sleep and I got ready and the passenger seat of the van in the mirror was like this big. And I remember that show, my guitar strap like came off while I was playing the rock chorus of It's Just Raining. And I like held it up with my leg. I was just holding on for dear life and it went viral. And I was like sleep deprived. And I was like, dang, the day I go viral is the day I had no sleep. So when you get a bus, how much does everything change? Everything was, oh my gosh, this tour was so fun. You have time to like, I don't know. I was always worried about, you know, parking the trailer or fixing the tracks rig or loading in with the guys and like helping them set up just cause like there was only ever two of them. And so now it's like I had 11 people on the bus. And a bus driver. And a bus driver and he was amazing. He was so awesome. And you get to sleep in the bus on a bump. You sleep in the bus on a bunk. There's bananas if you wanna go over. There's like you can wake up and walk around or you can sleep until two if you want to. Or you can, you know, I always have a really hard time following a sleep after a show cause the adrenaline is so high. And so I stay up really late on the bus. Everyone goes to bed and I sit in the room in like journal and I can read my scriptures which in a van you're just like sleep deprived and taking shifts driving. And yeah. And you smell and the bus still smells. Don't get me wrong. That's what we have essential oils for. Depending on how many dudes are in the bus. Yes. Lots of guys. We had four girls on the crew though. So which was really fun. The girls, this is a question. I don't know if I feel comfortable asking. As a guy when we would have a bus and there's seven or eight. There's, there are bathroom rules. You don't go on the bus. Yeah. Do girls have that rule? Yeah. You do? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I didn't know cause you guys aren't gross like us. Well girls poop too. I know but I didn't know. Guys are just. Guys are gross. Guys are gross. Luckily my crew hygiene was good. Girls, I would say guys are dirty and girls are messy. And those are two very different, you know, types of clean. Have you thought about writing that song? Girls poop too? Girls poop too. I could totally write that song. I know just the people to call. That is, I think that's a number one. Unless you're touring though. I don't know. I just think it's a number one. Sometimes I hear it and I'm like. Girls poop too. That's a hit. If a guy is like, can't stand the fact that girls like poop or have a period. I'm like, I don't know about you. I don't mind the period. Yeah. That's good. Green flag, Bobby. Yeah. And I'll go, I've never been afraid to buy tampons. No problem with that. I don't like my wife to see me even do poopy stuff. I don't even like to talk. It's bathroom talk. I don't just generally speaking, I don't like bathroom talk. So it's not about her. Because she's so much, my wife is so free and she's just like, the body's the body. She's just like. I'm going to tell you if she needs to go poop. Yeah. I'm the weird one. Right. That's OK. That's all right. And I even call a bathroom talk and she's like, you're not eight. Right. Well, you take me as the guy that like, your car is clean. And like. It's my car. If it's dirty, it's a little bit messy. It's never dirty. Right. So if you went right now, there's a bag from Allo in the back that I took all the stuff out. But the bag is still there and probably like an empty Sonic Cup. And they're put together. And that's like dirty too. Right beside each other. Right. So for me. I don't have like sticky stuff in my car. Like there will never be like sticky stuff in the cup holders. Food though? No, no. I like I will throw food away and stuff like I'm not dirty. But you best bet like my whole closet's in the backseat of my car. You know. That's kind of a nature of the job though. I'm a girl. And I also I'm yeah, I've changed my outfit a lot. So let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on the Bobby cast. Something that I struggled with whenever things started to work for me was all the money I was expected to spend on clothes. Oh my gosh. I could write a novel about this seriously because I didn't grow up buying clothes. And so I've never known like my style was Hamney Downs. And like I've always liked if it looks like it came from my grandma's closet. That's what I like. And so it still translates in my style, especially on stage to this day. But I went from you know, living off of Hamney Downs to like all of a sudden I need to buy outfit on stage that makes me look like an artist and makes me look cool. But also something that's comfortable to like move around in. And yeah, I found myself not feeling comfortable with spending money on clothes. It felt like a sin. And now I just am like if I like it and I know I'm going to look back at photos or videos of me in it and like it, then I just need to buy it. I got a step ahead of it because it was so odd for me to buy clothes for red carpets or television. And I got fortunate too. I had certain shows that would give me budgets for clothes. And so I'd buy the clothes that I'd never spend all of and keep the rest of the money. Greatest scheme ever. The second part was I when I was doing a lot of stand up, I wore a uniform. It's because I don't want to buy different clothes. So I wore the same clothes every night. And people thought, wow, look at him. He's really strategic and what a brand. I just didn't want to buy clothes. No, yeah. That's funny. I do admire like even with Megan or Taylor Swift and they have like an outfit like that's their outfit for the tour. I have yet to be there. I'm also into sizes. I don't know if I could wear one outfit for like a whole tour. Do you get the Megan Moroney comparisons? All the time, yeah. Which is so fun, especially in the beginning, but it's so funny because we're two completely different, like completely different lanes. And so. Blonde hair. I mean really that's it. It's the blonde hair and the song's about the X's it is. It's the vulnerability and the blonde hair. I'm honored to be compared to Megan and I've been compared to Taylor Swift and to Stevie Nicks and I feel like people find a hard time like pinpointing who to compare me to. So I've heard like a lot of different things. I feel like Megan Moroney is the best young songwriter that's an artist. She's very, very classic songwriter. She embodies a lot of that classic country and it's very, it's very like it is like poetry. Like it's going to rhyme. It's going to fit. It's going to be like a system. Yeah, she's really a genius and she's a marketing genius too. Very specific. Very specific to her. Yeah. Which I think there's a real art to that. Yeah. Because you could be so specific and think, well no one's going to understand this. Yeah. Or you could be very specific and have the confidence to go, someone's going to find their story and my specificity. Right. Totally. Which I feel like you do that too though. When I say that, I feel like you do that too. Yeah. In your songwriting. I'm very specific with my songwriting. I also am not like married to one sound. I feel like Megan is like, she has created her sound. I have like five different sounds and I think that's, it's a strength and a downfall for me because I don't really have like, I wish that I was more calculated than I am and I wish that I could be like, this is the sound for this album. It's going to be this one genre. I'm going to wear this one color but I just don't function like that. And I think if I did, I would feel like I was in a jail cell. I think you'll get there though. Or I think you'll, I think you'll get to a point that you, you know, you're going to You've figured out a strategy for you. It's funny because it's harder for people to figure out like my brand and like what my specific sound is and my style. What is your brand? If I were to ask you. I am just me and it's hard to, I think it will take me releasing more music to really establish that and like paint my own lane. It's been very adamant that like I should just pick country or pick rock or pick indie. You know what I mean? That's old school. It is old school. But it's funny because you'd think that that would be old school and especially within or not like, I mean people listen to all genres and so yeah, I'm just Arizona girl that likes to sing sad songs. What instrument did you play first? Piano. Yeah. I had lessons when I was younger and I never practiced and I still can't read music. I would like do piano recitals with my sister and she would get every note perfect and she would practice. She was good and she doesn't play anymore. But I would just be like, my piano recital, I'd miss a couple notes and just like laugh about it and be done. But I quit when I was, I think in sixth grade and then I really like taught myself after that because I would look up like songs that I liked to play and I would zoom in on people's fingers and then just copy it. But my grandpa, he's like, he hears everything by ear. He's like, he can't read music but he just does everything by ear and I think that's where I got that from. When did you play guitar? I think I was in sixth grade as well. Did you ask for a guitar? Yeah, for Christmas. I did. I got a yellow one. Did you take to it immediately? Yeah, I did. I learned the ukulele and then I committed to zooming in on people's fingers on YouTube to learn the guitar. A lot of zooming it sounds like. I'm sure I could have, yes, lots of zooming. I'm sure I could have done an easier way to learn but I don't know why in my mind that was the way that I needed to do it. So your last record came out in May. I assume you've written a ton of songs. Yeah. Yeah. I have some, yeah. There's been a lot of different sounds that I've played around with but I think this year I've finally decided a little more specifically on what I want things to sound like. So you're painting your lane a little bit? I'm painting my lane and also I feel like I finally have a voice. Not that anyone ever tried to take my voice away or no one ever tried to shut me up but I just didn't really know how to set the boundaries and say what I wanted and now I feel like I finally do. Let go letters was the first time I ever played with that. But now I feel like I know what I want to say and I've got some songs that give me a lot of anxiety and a lot of scared feelings. Yeah. I feel like you dancing in all the lanes will help you realize what lane you're supposed to be in. Yeah. And also you can always change lanes. Right. I've always loved so many different genres of music and I've appreciated artists of all decades and I don't know. There's a piece of me in a lot of different genres and so yeah I guess I just have to tiptoe through them. But. Let's do Mount Rushmore favorite artists ever. Patsy Klein. Four. Okay Patsy Klein. Can I do bands? Yeah. Sure you can. Patsy Klein luminaires. Oh my gosh. Probably. I mean I have to say Taylor Swift. You don't have to say that. I do though because she's such a big part of my childhood. Well that would be a reason to say that. Yes she's. Yeah you don't have. I think right now Noah Kahn and. That's four. You can't add anymore. Ding. If there was another head that was being sculpted on the mountain. Willie Nelson and Kimmy Rhodes together. Singing I just drove by. Man you're really specific on that one. Yeah. It was like the first song I ever learned and that's the go to with my grandpa. He has a dementia so he only remembers certain songs. There's a couple Patsy ones and that one though is like shaped me as a person. It's like the core of my being. What song do you think you've covered the most? Probably hymns. Probably. Like Amazing Grace. I've sang that one at a couple shows when I felt like I needed to. Oh my gosh I sing love stories so much. The fans love it. Not the hymn the Taylor Swift. The Taylor Swift. Yeah. Basically a hymn. A hymn for the girls or the guys or the gays. It doesn't matter. Yeah I think I've sang that one for like two years on tour because people love it and I don't know. I can't find a song that I could cover that does as well as that one. Besides maybe no more tears now so I'm sure I'll do that one for longer than I did love story. But I hope doesn't happen before I get to my last question is that no more tears hits for you so hard in a way that you get annoyed that you have to play it in two years. I don't know if I could ever get annoyed with it. I hope you don't. I hope. I think I dump a lot of angry feelings into that when I sing it. Like I really just let it all rip and I'm not really like an angry person because I stuff my angry feelings down. And so I don't know if I'll ever not have that. Well that doesn't feel healthy though. Just you. It's not. It's really not. Don't get me wrong I know I'm a walking red flag like I'm very aware so. But I don't know if I'll never like enjoy it. It's fun. Final question. What is your final death row meal? A steak. Side of mac and cheese. This is so weird but I love beet salads and peach cobbler. Not a beet guy. I've never been a beet girl. I thought they were always gross. My dad always loved them and now I just like them. They taste like they do taste like earth a little bit. That's a good. Yeah. What's a beet taste like earth. I think you nailed it. Yeah. It tastes like earth. Have you ever tried okra? I have. I didn't have it so I moved here. I didn't know that was a thing. What about sweet tea? Or no I've no I don't drink sweet tea. I've tasted it. I didn't love it. Yeah. I know. I wouldn't say it's an acquired taste but it's all I drink. I'm from Arkansas. It's sweet tea. No it's a very cultural thing. Did you ever have kool-aid? Yeah I did. It wasn't like a I had more caprisans than kool-aid I think. But yeah like grits and okra and cornbread. Oh grits. I didn't. Yeah. Very it was a big culture shock to food too. And barbecue is really good out here. Was it not there? I mean there's no barbecue places in Flagstaff no but my dad always like you know cooked the meats so. What's the goal this year? Give me a goal. At the end of the year you want to say that you. At the end of the year I want to say I really introduced myself for the first time because I've established that you know I'm a songwriter and vulnerable songwriter and I connected a lot with the fans this past year with Let Go Letters and the meaning of it and touring and just really creating like a community. And I think it's time for me to like really show people who I am and what I believe in, where I came from, what I think is important enough to say and put on a record. So this year I hope by the end of the year I could say that I really like established and you know I'm excited. Well I'm glad you came by. Thank you. It's so nice to talk to you. I'm a fan and I was watching some of your opera stuff too when it happened. I would just see you know small I mean I'm kind of exposed to everything so nothing really pops ever ever ever and then when I saw No More Tears I hope you take this the right way. I was like oh that's the girl that sang in the bathtub. Right. Wow that's completely different. No that's okay. I was like oh man I gotta see what she's about. So yeah I'm rooting for you. Thank you. Yeah. Really awesome. Well I'm rooting for you not that you need my cheering you on but I will cheer you on this. I need it more than ever. Yeah. Will you ever hop back in the bathtub and sing again? Of course yeah. If I get a luxurious cloth at bathtub of my own. Nice. I need to probably make some money first. Okay when you make money and you get an independent bathtub that sits out. Yes I will have a cloth at bathtub and I will have a big stained glass window. Oh you're going now. You're going to go extra. You always go extra. It's like your fifth Mount Rushmore person. Yes I'm extra. Yes. Great to talk to you. Good to talk to you too. Thanks for listening to a BobbyCast production. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.