Packers Continue to Monitor Season Ticket Holders!!!

20 minutes a day 365 days a year this is the Packaday podcast welcome back Packers fans to the Thursday edition of the Packaday podcast I guess I should welcome myself back since I missed last week. I appreciate, I guess, my friend and colleague, Jacob Westendorf, stepping in for me. There is nothing wrong with my hearing. And I will now introduce myself. I'm Jason Perrone. I'm the usual co-host of the Thursday edition of the Packet Day podcast. I am hearing just fine. With me, as always, the Packet Report is Mark Echol. Mark, I did tell Jake that what I did hear, speaking of hearing, is that he still has a face for radio so i guess i'm glad this is an audio only show but how are you my friend i'm doing okay i'm doing okay glad to have you back jake did a good job filling in but we don't want to break up the everybody's favorite pack of day show which is the thursday show well he always does too good of a job and then i've done my job stick i don't know why i asked him to step in i should i should ask somebody to step in who's who's not any good yeah everybody's good but all our pack of day people are good we're just the best not as thorough well it would be somebody i would go outside you know they say in the get a bears fan right go get a bears fan to do it when when certain italians have to take care of business i go back to the sopranos like you've got to farm this job out to somebody outside the family so anyway i'm back at it and there's been a lot of a lot of happenings here just simply because the nfl combine is getting ready to kick off here brian gudekun spoke the other day our wednesday crew did a great job of breaking down the comments that Goody made. We'll talk about a couple of those and hitting the news cycle. Again, there was an article that was published. I think Rob Domofsky just either tweeted about it or he wrote about the Packers are still monitoring season ticket holders and how they are either attending games or selling their tickets. This is still a hot topic. The Green Bay Packers obviously prefer the Green Bay Packer fans keep their tickets and go to the games so that there's more green and yellow in the stands than any other color or other. other fan base. And I think we should talk about that because as yours truly is somebody who lives afar and can't attend games unless somebody wants to sell their tickets. And it used to be, if we want to start with this, it used to be, you had to know somebody. The internet wasn't a thing long, long, long ago. It seems like it's been around forever, but there was a time when the internet wasn't a thing. So if you had to know somebody who owned season tickets or own Packers tickets and hope that they were willing to sell them to you and you'd have to go get them somehow or have them mailed to you because you had to have a physical ticket. Now everything's electronic and that's good for the NFL because now the NFL can big brother it and track it if tickets get transferred from one device to the next or one account to the next. So I'm sure it won't completely erase the secondary market. But again, as somebody who legitimately, and I make it clear when I can to the seller, when I inquire about buying the tickets, hey, I'm willing to pay for these tickets. Here's my form of payment, and I am a Packers fan. Now, anybody can say that. Right. If I'm a Bears fan, a Lions fan. I'm not going to – yeah, you're not – if you're selling Packer Bears tickets, the guy is not going to tell you I'm a Bears fan. Yeah, some will. Some will because they're just egomaniacs, and they want everybody to know that they're a Vikings fan, and they're going to come bring their purple and wear their purple stands. But this is – it's an interesting conversation, and I tweeted out – what's your take? Well, I mean, don't be selfish because you're, you know, it, this does affect you. So obviously you want as many tickets available as possible. Right. Well, how are you going to, I mean, how are you going to ensure that somebody is being honest about which team they support? How are you going to police that? You can't like, like I just said, if I was, if it was the other way around, if I was buying tickets to a Packer Panther game here in Carolina, right. Packers were playing at Carolina and the game sold out and I'm trying to get tickets and somebody says to me, well, I'm only going to sell them to you if you're a Panther fan. I say, Oh, Bryce Young's my man. I love Bryce Young. And you know, yeah, I followed him all through Kyle. Yeah, of course my Panther fan. Then he gives me the tickets and I show up wearing my green and gold and you know, too late. Right. I got the tickets. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. My thing is more, and I don't know if this is where you were taking it, but if I buy tickets, I paid money, I bought Packer tickets. The Packers can't. It's just like if I buy a car from you, you're selling your car. And I say, yeah, I'll buy that car from you. Now it's my car. If I want to junk it, I'll junk it. If I want to paint it, I'll paint it. It's my tickets. I bought those tickets. The Packers can't tell me I can't sell them, can they? Well, I guess they can try. I mean, but we live in a capitalist society, and now we're getting into like a political conversation about it. But I agree with you. If you own these tickets, now it is clearly stated when you get your season tickets, when you buy the tickets, that there are resell and all this other kind of stuff. I just don't know how much teeth the team has in order to enforce it. I tweeted out Wednesday morning because we record on Wednesday. for Thursday. I tweeted out on Wednesday morning and said, has anybody in the... DM me if you don't want to talk about it on the thread, but has anybody ever actually received anything from the Packers that said that they were in danger of losing their tickets? And if so, how did they get... Now you're taking me down a different road. How did they notify you? And Matt Freilich, our friend Matt Freilich, who's also on the Pack-A-Day podcast, he responded back and said there was an article that was written not too long ago that featured a a family that had, they were having some medical issues. And so they weren't able to attend the games. I don't know if they lived in Wisconsin or not. And, but the team either didn't know that, or if they did know that they did, they, anyway, they decided to warn this family and said, Hey, you're going to lose your tickets. And I don't know what the, I think, I think if I'm not mistaken, because I don't, you know, I don't want to speculate on what exactly it is. And I could have looked this up too, but I think it's, it's over the course of two seasons. If you don't go to a single game over two seasons straight, I think that's where you start to get flagged. All right, listen, now you're taking me down a different road now. Yeah, I still believe in my, I bought the ticket, I can do what I want with it. But the Packers do have the rights, I think, to not sell me a ticket. If they can track that and see that Mark Echel bought these tickets, but Mark Echel never went to a game, yeah, I think they could say, sorry, Mark, we're not, there's enough, we have a billion people waiting for tickets who are actually going to go to these games. We're going to sell them to them. You're not going anyway. You're using this as an investment. Try Apple instead. Yeah, I could see that. I don't think that's wrong. I don't think the Packers are wrong for doing that. Especially when you, like I said, when you have so many people on a wait list that actually want tickets and I would assume want to go to the games. Now I have a friend, good friend of mine, who's from New Jersey, New Jersey area, but is a big Eagles fan. He lives down here now. He kept his Eagles season tickets. Now, obviously he doesn't go to every game because he lives here. So he's not going to fly up there 10 times a year, but he goes to probably, he checks the schedule and he doesn't go to, if they play a home monday night game he sells those uh there is a night same thing but he usually goes to most of the sunday early games but he does sell the other ones and i i asked him once do you sell them to friends or you just put them on you know razor gator or stub hub or one of those things and he said he first he asks because he has he has tickets with another guy that you know that he had to see his tickets obviously before he moved so he whoever he has the tickets with he'll he'll call them say listen i'm not going to the to the washington game on thursday night do any of your friends want to go they can just buy my ticket and that's what he says that happens probably half the time some other times no nobody wants to go thursday night so then he just he just sells it well yeah and so but he does go to at least like i said if he doesn't go to the preseason but that's nobody goes. I mean, a lot of people don't go to preseason games. I can't talk out of both sides of my mouth and sit here and say capitalist society and people buy something they could do it, but you have to work within the framework of what you're buying and what the seller is asking you to do. So it's not like you don't know. I mean, of course, it sounds very lucrative. If somebody who didn't even care about the Green Bay Packers had an opportunity to buy season tickets, especially now if they're like a corporate, a corporation or something like that, that goes down a whole nother road. Cause that's not a person. That's an entity that then owns them. And of course, all they're going to care about is profit, but that's a lucrative opportunity. Most people would take advantage of. If somebody came to me and said, Hey, I got this strange opportunity for you, but if you have the money and you want, I've got two prime season tickets for the San Francisco 49ers. and they're yours and i'm like i know i'm never going to go to a game but man i could make a killing on these every single week of course you're going to think about doing it as long as you're not going to get popped for it right and you don't care if you're selling to a four diner fan or a rams fan right you don't care right especially if you don't care about the team and that's that's the thing is in this electronic digital internet age you don't know who you're dealing with it's hard to know exactly who it is that that you're i mean look at look at x slash twitter these accounts that have names these half the time it's not the person's real name of course some of them don't even have a an image or a picture up there and so you don't know who you're dealing with half the time that's just kind of the way the world is happening everywhere it's not just pat i mean no it's like you you watch any game i mean i'm going back you know i go back a long way it used to be you know i'll use the eagles as the example because i always use eagles as an example when i was covering eagles like in the 90s say right whenever you know they were pretty good or late 80s early 90s you know the seth joiner randall cunningham reggie before he left you know those teams they were sold out all the time obviously and yeah when eagles played the giants you would see there there'd be a smattering of blue you know because it was so close so giant fans probably just knew eagle fans and they they went with whatever same when they played washington you know there was a smattering not a not i wouldn't say you know a lot you know but when they played dallas or the cardinals there were no cardinal fans at that game there were no if there were cowboy fans there were cowboy fans that lived in philly maybe that somehow got got a hold of tickets but you know it was it was that's what you know there again it was it was pre-digital era and free and he's you know like no game is sold like you can get i can get a ticket to any game i want if i have the money there's no game i can't get it i can't get a ticket to right and in any sport for that matter right back then though like the eagles were sold out and the eagles were playing you like like you said before you had to know somebody that wanted to give up their their ticket for someone else for an outsider to go but yeah but now you watch a game on on tv you watch you know the rams play the cardinals and And there's a lot of Rams fans in Glendale or vice versa. You know, well, maybe not on those Cardinals fans in L.A., but there might be. But, you know, you see visiting fans in a lot of stadiums these days, more so than you ever did before, right? I'm not making it up. No, no, no, no, not at all. It's any sport. any it's people these sports has become a a destination for lack of a better term like people build their vacations and itineraries around this because you can go to these events and i'm talking about like you know people from the united states will go to europe for a week and go to a bunch of football games like out there and watch those and vice versa there's already games that take place like nfl games that take place overseas so if you're growing the brand the whole point is that you're expanding your fan base it's all about money these leagues all want the money they want the eyeballs they want the tv subscriptions they want the apps they want the merchandise the tickets all that stuff tv deal obviously and but the tv deal only works if you have more eyes on your product so but again it's for me selfishly i hope that there's an opportunity to continue to go to lambo because it's kind of my one one of my big trips one of my big one of my big trips that I take every year. And fortunately, because of this and the show and what we do, I've met a lot of great Packers fans, several of which I know are season ticket holders, and I've never asked them to buy their tickets. And if so, I would always give somebody a fair price for it, but I've never done that. So I feel like I'm probably in an advantageous situation to be able to find somebody that's willing to sell tickets. In fact, I want to promote Kyle Kuzino For those of you who follow him on Twitter, if you don't follow him because he lives in the Green Bay area, he's very closely connected to the Packers, huge family. His family hugely supported the team for a long time In fact I think Kyle just got his season tickets And he been waiting for a really long time so congrats to him but he helps packers fans get connected with other packers fans that want to sell their tickets to packers fans right in a legitimate right that's yeah and and every i would think every fan base you know the eagle fan that sells his tickets he doesn't want to sell them to a to a cowboy fan but you don't know once you put it on you know a third-party site, or what do they call it? What's the term that they use now? Secondary market. Yeah, secondary market. You don't know who's going to buy them, and you can't... Once that guy gives you the money, they're gone. You can't say, oh, my God, no, I'm not selling them to you. You're an cowboy. That's all sales are fine. You offer... You want X amount of dollars for them? That guy says, here's X amount of dollars, and they're gone. Yeah, ideally, you would want... If you're a Packer fan and you can't make it to the Lions game, and again, like you said people just trying to make a buck but ideally you would ask if you live in green bag you gotta know a lot of packer fans right if you're a packer season ticket holder chances are you know a lot of other packer fans who would love to buy your ticket so yeah i mean that's like i said like what my friend does that's an eagles that has eagles tickets it went to games he he offers them to his friend that that he knows is going first to see if if they have another if If he has, you know, that's his first thing. He says, like he said, probably half the time that works out. These guys are older, so none of them want to go to night games. It's past their bedtime now. Plus, by the time you get home, you know, games just start late. I know guys don't even want to watch night games. I'm a night person, so I'm different. But, you know, you're not getting home until very early in the morning from a night game a lot of times, right? On the East Coast, especially. Right. Again, we've talked about the admin. You got it made out in Arizona. You don't have to worry about it. The West Coast, for watching sports, the West Coast, some would disagree. It depends on when you're at its optimal level. But I think the West Coast is most ideal because you don't miss. I mean, you might miss some of the beginning of a game. Did you get up at 5 o'clock to watch the hockey game? No. I tuned in. As soon as I got up, I tuned in, and that was cool to watch. But no, I didn't get up to watch the beginning. Yeah, I didn't think you got up. I guess it was 6 o'clock at now, right? Two-hour difference. Yes. Well, Arizona, and remember, we're weirdos here. We don't do daylight savings time. So right now, California is in the West Coast time zone. Pacific time is an hour behind us. Right. So you're two hours behind these. When we spring forward, we'll be same time as West Coast. Exactly. And then mountain will be an hour ahead of us. It's a lot of math. There's a lot of time math that goes on here. the in the western in the arizona quadrant but but more to more to come it sounds like this is an ever-evolving thing that the packers are doing and who knows i mean it could gain some traction and there might be a bunch of people since they just started monitoring this four or five years ago i think the number of cases will slowly start to build to the point where this might gain some more traction but well it is i gotta admit as just a fan i mean lambeau field was one place just like you know in philly it was one it was one of the places where you know you again a a bear fan or a viking fan or a lion fan might trickle in but it wasn't enough to notice and that was nice walking i'm watching the packers on tv at games at lambon i know you know 90 90 something percent of the fans are packer fans now i worry some games i'm watching i'm thinking hey i'm i'm hearing skull or i'm hearing you know yeah no i shouldn't i should not be hearing that at lambeau field right although i'm gonna i'm gonna be like a typical fan now and say while i hate that i love when the packers go to arizona and by the fourth quarter you're hearing go pack go right of course we want it we want it our way yeah we want it both ways yeah we don't want any visiting fans coming to lambo but we love it when there's 10,000 to 20,000 Packer fans on the road somewhere, right? 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But back when the Chargers played in San Diego 2011, I was at that game where Green Bay and the Chargers scored about a thousand points. And there were so many Packers fans that by the end of the game, and it was competitive most of the way, But by the end of the game, Sandy, the Chargers were kind of going off of a, they had to use a silent count. Rivers, Phillip Rivers was kind of using a silent count because it was a little noisy in the stadium, which gets crazy. But, and I think back to a couple of years, I think it was in 2022, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe it was 23 when the Packers played that Thursday night game. It was 2023 against the Lions. And there was a ton of blue. And I think part of it could also be, now we're getting too deep into the conversation. we don't have to go any further here because I think that was what's called the gold package game. Yeah, it's the Milwaukee. Which is the Milwaukee tickets. They get two games a year. Right. So that's a whole different set of fans or different crowd or whatever it be. And I'll be honest with you. When I buy tickets, I don't pay attention to whether it's Green Bay or Milwaukee. Oh, no. You wouldn't. I wouldn't either. But I could see that. That's a bad combination to have a quote-unquote gold or Milwaukee game. And it's a night game. Right. because, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You go back far enough, because I always forget. I know how old you are, but I forget. County? Do you remember them playing in Milwaukee? I never went to a game there, but yeah. Do you remember? Actually, I think they only played in Milwaukee for maybe two years of me following the team, and then they stopped doing it. So you barely remember it then, okay. Yeah, but I mean, I've seen. I covered a game in Milwaukee. Yeah, I mean, I've seen pictures of the field on the county stadium surface, the way they threw it out. It was the weirdest thing because both teams were on the same side. Yeah, I saw that too, yeah. I never understood that part of it. Especially if things get chippy. You don't have to look too hard. No. Go far to find your opponent if you want to. Continue, yeah, right? You want to mix it up a little bit there. But, yeah, I do. But I also remember a time when I keep thinking about the 1996 playoff run, and I wasn't at any of those games in person. But on TV, it looked like a mass of green, yellow, white towels waving, loudness. It was all for one team. It was such an advantage to be at Lambeau Field. And a lot of that had to do with the team being good and the culture of the team. And it was led by Mike Holmgren. And Mike Holmgren was an alpha. And we've had a lot of conversations about the head coach, Matt LaFleur, and some of the other guys that have coached. I mean, McCarthy, he was an alpha. LaFleur, you could argue, but now we're getting into other things and how that all trickles down and filters its way down. But LaFleur has been pretty vocal about wanting a better home field advantage, about wanting fans to understand when to make noise, when not to make noise, stop doing that wave, stuff like that. and if you know if you want that then yeah and I think that's part of the push and part of the reason why the team has said hey we need we need people in the stands that want to be there that want to support our team this is our stadium we need to we need to get this home field advantage back this was a very proud place to play it still is but it's very proud I mean they still have a winning record at home Packers played much better at home than on the road that's most teams I think maybe a few exceptions, but Green Bay in particular, if you look at the record, it's not like they've just completely fallen off. Now in the playoffs, they have. Once they lost their first game in 2003, or it was early, yeah, early 03, 2002 season against the Falcons. Who was the coach at the Packers when they lost their first home playoff game? We know. General Sherman. Yep. That was my line. Atlanta finally got even with Sherman. We finally got even with Sherman, General Sherman. So I think that just happened to be the case because, to be honest with you, that team was very good that year. They still had Brett Favre. They still had a good defense. They were a little banged up, though. They were pretty banged up, if I remember. But you know what else? They needed a lot. Your final anecdote, and then we can move on from it because, you know, this is not a – That team clinched – This affects a lot of people, but go ahead. That team clinched the division on December 1st. So it's like they didn't – whatever they were playing. They were, but they lost to the Jets. Yep. And had they won that game, they would have had it. And they would have gotten healthier. Mike Sherman. Anyway, where are we going next? Let's talk about some of the things Goody said. And I'm going to start by telling, by getting you all worked up. Because you were very worked up in our pregame meeting here today. So some reporter, some diligent reporter asked Brian Guttenkunst about the timing of Rich Bisaccia's departure and, you know, the fact that he didn't happen right away. And Guttenkunst made it clear that he left on his own. He wasn't fired by any means. But he also said that it took them by surprise. What was the exact quote? They didn't see it coming? Is that what it was? Caught off guard. Caught off guard. I'm sorry. It was caught off guard. And that seemed to bother you a little bit. It did because we don't, yes, there's information we don't know. But if Rich made this decision, why is he just now making this decision in mid-February and not a month ago or even a little bit longer? I mean, the Packers played their last game on January 10th. So, sure, take some time, think about it, figure some things out. But now after the, and I've used my quote fingers, but the hiring cycle of coaches is specifically special teams coaches. I mean, the Packers, their assistant special teams coach is now in Cleveland. Good for him. So would they, if they knew this five weeks ago, six weeks ago, would they have promoted him? I hope not. I hope not. They tried that before. But Dayton, my old Dayton, whatever the hell's name was. And that was great. Great. Whatever. Terrible. I don't know. I don't know. I'm glad that happened. Yeah, or if there was another coach on another team that took a job that Green Bay might have had interest in, but now they're gone. They're already hired somewhere. So I have my feelings about the special teams. I just feel like Rich Passaccia for what he was brought in, what he was paid to do, fell short, in my opinion. He wasn't the worst. I'm not saying he was the worst. I'm not saying he was committing crimes against humanity or anything like that. I would have, you would have thought that's how I felt when you would have listened to the pregame or the pre-show. I was pretty worked up. Yeah. I want you to be pretty worked up, pretty worked up, but I, cause I have my frustrations. I have my frustrations, right? There's, there's gotta be something that I hope so. Because if, because if not, then it was just Besatia taking a parting shot at the Packers because what, what Brian Goodkin said, well, that's why, that's why we, what we don't know right was did something happen right something developed that was negative over these last three weeks i mean there's a couple theories i have what's your take and they're just theories one is it's a personal issue sure okay and we don't and we'll never know that unless something comes out that besides you listen i've seen coaches especially assistant coaches waffle at the end of a season yeah i think i think this is it for me hell vick fangio with the Eagles did it this offseason. Everybody thought he told a bunch of people. Yeah, I'm done. I don't need to do this anymore. Then, no, I'm going to come. No, I'm going to change my mind. I going to come I give it another year Then no no I gone now I really gone And then from what I hearing I told the eagles made it worth his while to to stay another year or so and now he is back okay but i seen i mean through my years i seen several assistant coaches say they're going to retire and then they don't and then or think about it and and then they do because you know family gets involved and even just like any job i mean we we look at coaches as a you know they know they have wives wives and kids and some of them now you know grandkids if they're older you know so sometimes it's not just the coach's decision becomes a family decision or some god forbid there maybe there's health issues involved with me they're rich or someone we don't know i don't know i don't want to go there because i'm not i don't know that but i've seen cases like that that's so that's one theory that is just strictly a personal thing the other and this is my conspiracy theorist in me maybe the packers wanted him to do things differently or change up some of his you know schemes or theories or whatever it was i don't know because i've seen that happen through the years you know where you know the head coach calls the assistant coach in and says hey listen i didn't like the way this you know let's just let's use special teams as an example the head coach calls special teams coach in and says, you know, they always, of course, they're going to have like an exit interview, right? So they're, they're meeting and could say, Hey, listen, the punt game was great this year. Loved it. You know, you did a great job there to kick off coverage, not, or keep that going, but we got to get better on punt coverage or we got to get better at punt return. I mean, we listen to you. I don't think what you're doing here. Let's try this. And the coach says, what do you mean? you don't know nothing about special teams you're telling me what do you know about no this is how i've always done it we'll just get better players you know and they get into a little this and that and one thing leads to another and they okay well you're you're gone you know or something like that i don't think that was the case here i really don't but something could have happened you know i don't know because we don't know well that he wasn't sure you know we kind of know that he wasn't fired because no he wasn't he was yeah we know that because goody wouldn't have said it took us by surprise or you know whatever because and and if it was and my issue with and again this is almost under the maybe under the same thing as the body language police i'm reading into verbiage and words that are being used and i know that gm's subterfuge sometimes they have to play the pr game and throw us off the scent or something like that. But if it was a sensitive situation, then I don't think, because I think Brian, I like Brian Gutekunst. I think he's super upstanding. I mean, there have been some GMs and other guys in the league that have been outspoken and they don't have the same, what's the demeanor? They don't have the same kooth, I guess. I don't know why Brian Gutekunst would have even said it caught us off guard. That might be me being a little bit dramatic because he can still be caught off guard and it could be something that he's very supportive of Rich and his family going through. It's like, oh, of course, it caught everybody off guard, especially if it's health-related, like you said, or something like that. But I just don't feel like knowing this GM, I don't feel like that's something he would have said if it was a sensitive situation. I think it just came down to Rich finally just saying, hey, you know what, five weeks later, six weeks later, I've come down off the season and talked to my family and spent a lot of time. He's certainly put his time in. I mean, he's doing a very demanding job at a time in his life when a lot of people are, you know, winding down, I guess, right? He's in his mid-60s. He's certainly within his rights and his age range to say, hey, I want to spend more time with my family. So if that's the case, that's fine. The timing to me is frustrating because if, and again, it's an if, we don't know. And this was your point to me when I was screaming and yelling literally into this microphone. earlier it was almost like hey i didn't do anything wrong what are you yelling at me for uh i i almost wonder if we should do a patreon and let people listen in on do a pre-game conversation that's unfiltered and people can listen and say what whatever it is that we say before the thing starts but but it's like you know he's just it's one more thing that just kind of seems sideways about the way that this went down with the packers and their special teams if if they had their eye on somebody or would have had their eye on somebody if rich had resigned five weeks ago now we're playing the what if game but if he if he had left five weeks ago we'll never know the answer would matt lefleur have potentially wanted to talk to somebody who ended up getting hired within the last month we don't know we'll never know so and to your point also say those guys are any better than the guys that are still available exactly they could It's not like there's nobody around. There's a bunch of people still available. Yeah, there's still guys that are out there. I would, if I had my choice from the day the season ended till now, I want Seattle's assistant. Why? And I don't know nothing other than Seattle had a great special teams. Yeah. So if this guy was there, he had to learn something. And he's young. See, I don't want 60-something-year-old somebody. I want 30-something-year-old somebody to come in, probably relate to the players a little better, probably would be excited because it's his first. He's been an assistant. Now he's the head guy. He gets to do his thing. That's what the Packers need on special teams. They need a shot in the arm. They need a kick in the butt. I mean, they don't need an old guy that's riding out his pension. They need a young guy who's excited and wants to build a name for himself. That's my take on it. Because like you said, they've been bad for a long, long, long time. So something, it wasn't all Basati's fault because he did some things wrong, I'm sure. But they haven't been good in so long that they just need something different. Yep. I don't know. I mean, we'll see how it ends up. I really hope they don't have one of those old guys. I agree. I think the league is not necessarily that coaches that are more tenured can't be effective because they can't. No, I'm not saying that. No, I'm saying in this case. But the league is moving towards – no, those are definitely not your words. No, and I didn't take it that way. But the league is just – it's a fact. The league is largely moving towards a new – I mean, as happens. You had a lot of coaches that aged out in the 70s, the 80s, 90s. It happens, right, guys? You know, finally just decide, okay, I'm not going to coach him. At some point, I think Mike Holmgren tells a story about, this was probably 10 or 15 years ago, maybe longer, about inquiring about an opening in the NFL after his time in Seattle. And he didn't get the kind of interest that he thought that he would for all of the accolades and things that he had achieved. And he kind of realized like, hey, I think this was the league's way of saying your time has come. It's time for someone else to step in and do the thing. And he said, I probably needed to hear that. So, you know, to, to, with regards to younger coaches and, but listen, it can go, it can certainly go both ways. One thing I'm not outing anybody cause he said it on the show, but our, our friend Dusty Evely, who's on the Wednesday show, I was listening to, to that actually, that was kind of fun. Andy popped in on them unexpectedly while they were in the studio. So I guess we should keep an eye on, on ours. I think Andy's probably busy during the day and those guys might record at night, but he popped in on the show. But one thing that Dusty was talking about, and I've completely lost my train of thought because I'm sitting here thinking about Andy wanting to come on the show. So if it pops back into my head, I'll – but getting back to the whole thing about the special teams, like they just – they need better. They need to improve. There's – one of the other things Goody said in his press conference at the combine was he still very much sees this team as a Super Bowl contender. So if that's the case, you can't have things, weird stuff happening. And I get, you know, what does weird mean to you, Jason, compared to the NFL? What the heck do you know? Okay, fair. I don't work at 1265. So maybe it's not weird at all that Rich Passaccia resigned last week or whenever it was, right? But I just, I want to see this team get their coaching staff in place, get their players. they're getting ready to the combines getting ready to start they don't have a first round pick so they're going to have to figure out what their you know what their strategy is going to be with regards to the draft and all that kind of stuff i want to see the needle moving in the right direction i guess this is the point that i'm making so was there any other comments that goody made that we want to talk about or cover i yeah the one thing that i took out of that whole thing i didn't i didn't hear it i think i heard most of it but he sometimes and i don't know if he does it on purpose just to give the media a little something or if it comes out inadvertently but he's tipped his hand about draft stuff over the years a little bit i forget one year he said something like about the offense a couple years ago he met somebody somebody asked about offensive line or something and he said i think we have 13 on the roster now that told me they're not drafting any offensive linemen and they didn't that's the only year that he didn't draft an offensive lineman well he said something i don't i don't know the question how the question was asked but his comment and i'm paraphrasing a little bit is he said there are a couple centers in this draft who i think can come in and start from day one i heard that i said first he's telling me that means the packers are drafted a center and well and we know this isn't a good center draft so that's well there's a couple there are a couple it's not deep but there are a couple from what i'm being told but you're going to have to get they're not going to be there past the third round i don't think one maybe sneaks into the top of the they won't be there when the packers are no no if you if you're no truly i mean if you're looking for yeah if you're looking for a starter at most positions and you're going to need to pick them before the end of day two right you would think in theory yeah the packers have gotten nothing on the offensive line And they've gotten some success on day three. But that tells me that I think they're going to take one of the centers. And two, Sean Ryan, who I thought was the one guy they might bring back of all their free agents, maybe not. Maybe they're not thinking that he's the center. Or maybe if they do bring him back, maybe he's back at guard again or something. I don't know. We'll see. Maybe I'm reading way too much into that, but I don't think I am. we'll be right back well this is the time of year to read way too much into stuff right otherwise what are we talking about i remembered what dusty said dusty opined that he's not 100 sure that things are going to go well at least early on for jeff halfley in miami he doesn't think that situation oh my god they blew up they got rid of everybody right that's what does that's what and again not a hot take and I do not disagree. I agree with Dusty. I don't disagree. No, no, that's going to be bad next year. I hope for, I mean, other than the fact that the Packers play the Dolphins, and I want the Packers to win that game handily, outside of that, I appreciate Jeff Halfley for coming in and doing what he did with the defense and trying his best to navigate through everything he had to navigate, losing Micah Parsons last year late, which was obviously a huge gut punch to the Packers. I don't want to see things blow up on him. I hope he wins three games. Bears, Lions, Vikings. I hope he goes 3-1, and then after that, I don't care. Yep. To be honest. But I think they're going to be bad. I mean, they look like they're in a total rebuild, right? They cut. They need to trade. They cut a bunch of guys. Yeah. Tyreek Hill. They're overhauled. They're just, they're, they're starting. Yeah. They're starting. And they're talking about trading Fitzpatrick. They're starting. Yeah. They're starting over, but that was, that was already determined and decided during the interview process. I guarantee you that was, that was something that they said, Hey, we come in here, we got to blow this thing up and start over. Right. He's not going to be judged on, on their record. We'll see where Tua ends up. And there's been more, there's been a little bit more heat. there's been a little more heat and fire smoke thrown on the Malik Willis to the Arizona Cardinals thing. But Malik Willis has also been coined as the number one free agent in this class, which is a quarterback. So if you're a really good quarterback, obviously quarterbacks tend to be more in demand than any other position. But I'm glad you mentioned center because the Ravens kind of threw a bunch of water on a fire that some Packers fans were wanting to heat up, which was Tyler Linderbaum, and he's not leaving Baltimore. If he does leave Baltimore, guess where he's going to go? Yeah, a ton of money. No, I don't care. A billion dollars of money isn't even a matter. If he doesn't resign with the Ravens, which if I had to bet, you probably can because you can bet anything anywhere now. I would definitely put money on him staying in Baltimore, but my backup bet would be that if he leaves Baltimore, he goes to the New York Giants and plays for the guy that he's always played for, John Harbaugh. That's the only two places I see him playing next year. Baltimore. Or if he really loves Harbaugh and Harbaugh really loves him, he says, no I don want to resign in Baltimore They might even tag him for that sense If he doesn resign him they might put a franchise tag on him He not Familiarity rules yeah He not Yeah No Nope They going to have to, they're either going to, they're either going to have to draft somebody or they're going to have to find a way to keep Sean Ryan if, if that's what it sounds like their preferences is that they can find a rookie. Rookies are not always good coming out of the gate though, Mark. I mean, would you rather, would you rather take your chance on a rookie or would you rather go with what you know of Sean Ryan at center? I'm not going to pretend that I'm an offensive line expert, but I'll play you this time. I'll trust them. I don't know how – I mean, it's hard when you're not there to judge. I mean, I'm watching every game on TV. I thought Ryan, for what he was asked to do, did okay. You know, he never played center in the NFL. He gets pushed there halfway through the year. I mean, I don't think he killed him by any means, But I didn't think he was one of the better centers in the league. I thought, hey, maybe he'll get better. Maybe we'll see. Now, I've had other people who are there more and close tell me, I think Jake was one of them, that said he didn't think Ryan was, he thought he was just okay and that you can get better. And again, I know, I think the best center in the draft is the kid from Florida. And then the kid from Iowa was pretty good too. But again, I haven't studied either one of them enough, and I haven't really gotten into my draft stuff yet to talk to people to see just how good people think those two guys are. And there's a third one, too, I believe. But if they're – I mean, I'll say this. The Packers, if we're going to use history to guide us, the Packers have done – they've started and done well with two rookie centers in the past. Corey Lindsley started as a rookie. Oh, Lindsley. And they went to the NFC Championship game, and he wasn't even supposed to start. J.C. Trenner got hurt. And then Myers started as a rookie. I have another one. Go ahead. I don't know if he was a rookie or not, but Scott Wells. Was he a rookie? Was a late draft pick for him. We were going back to like 20 years ago. Yeah, you're going back. Scott Wells played very well. He was a late draft pick. The Packers have had some good – the Packers have had offensive line. They've been, I'd say they've been above average in terms of the players and how they've turned out. They haven't always had the best offensive lines. They've had plenty of issues. They've made plenty of mistakes on the offensive line, too, with personnel usage in the playoffs and stuff like that recently. But center-wise. They've gotten too many injuries on the offensive line. Yeah, and of course, injuries is an automatic, okay, what can you do? And it's football. So that's going to happen, and you have to deal with it. this is one of the reasons why this is kind of a, I don't know if I'm being a little bit too, again, dramatic, use that word again, to say this is a fork in the road moment for Brian Goodekunst and how he builds his offensive line. Because based on what you just said, Mark, which is true, there's attrition everywhere in the NFL. Why wouldn't you continue to want to find versatile offensive linemen? Because you might have two really solid offensive tackles and you've got a guy that's listed as an offensive tackle and he's the backup, but now you have your right guard goes down and they're out for the season and you need somebody to play guard and the Packers don't have a true guard, but they've got a tackle that played some guard in college or something like that. Now they feel more comfortable putting him in there and plugging that in there. But I think we've been clamoring and I've been seeing more clamoring for this versatility and these guys having to play all around is what caused the issue of Anthony Belton. Is he a tackle? Is he a guard? Jordan Morgan, why are you playing him at guard? He's your left tackle of the future type of a thing too. And I like the idea of the versatility because you need more options. There's only so many offensive linemen you can carry. Typically teams stack their line heavier in the roster. You've got more offensive linemen, right? But you need guys who can step in and play at those positions that you need. Now center is not one that you just throw somebody out there. You know, they're touching the ball in every play. They've got to be good with the ball. They've got to understand the protections. They've got to make sure they're not getting, they're lining up right. You know, now the refs are apparently calling a lot of offsides on the offensive line for how those guys are lining up, except on the tush push. I digress. So you need to be smart about those players. But what is your take on this, this continue? Do you say stick with it, Goody, continue to find the versatile tackle guard guys? Or is it time for the Packers to say, hey, we need a guard. Let's find a guard. That's a good question. I can't remember the last guard they drafted. They draft tackles and make them guards, or they drafted Elton Jenkins, who was a center and made him a guard. A lot of teams, there's a lot of college tackles who have become guards, not just in Green Bay, but everyone. Because in college, I think you just put your best, most athletic player at tackle, right? And they do, obviously, they do well. But when the pros look at them, they say, well, we like to, his arms aren't long enough. Or he's not this, he's not, so we're going to make him a guard. And a lot of those guys become your better guards because they are a little more athletic, maybe. So I don't mind that. I don't mind taking a tackle and making him a guard kind of thing. But again, with that said there, see, my take on the drafts, and I've covered so many of them, don't, and I do it myself when I try to do a mock draft or something, but don't have theories. Like, don't say we only draft tackles and make them guards, or we never do. Never be a never, and never be an always. Like, just look at each draft individually, and just take the player that you think's best. If he happens to be just a guard, then he's just a guard. If you project the guard from Auburn to be a better guard than the tackle from LSU that you're thinking about moving the guard, then take the guard from Auburn. But if you think the LSU tackle is going to be better, then take the LSU. Just take the better player and then let your coaches figure it out. That would be my theory if I was a GM. That's a good theory. but do you feel do you agree that the Packers could have better identified where some of these guys should have been playing this past season or not wrong answer I'm just asking I mean I I don't want to use the excuse but I think that the injuries to the Sean Ryan's the only guy that didn't get hurt last year so I mean it's easy to look back and say yeah they should have never moved Elton Jenkins to center but apparently he it was his he he went to them and said he'd moved to center listen you know i'm a jordan morgan guy so i thought looking back with 2020 hindsight they probably should have started jordan morgan at left tackle and trade at rashid walker last year or made him a backup whatever you know zach tom is great at right see people they did right by zach tom people how many people wanted to move him to center right no he's a he's a right tackle and he's a very good one well they were told he'd potentially be a hall of fame yeah yeah Hall of Fame. And maybe he would be. I don't know. But they left him at right tackle. But he got hurt. Banks, who everybody hates now because they paid him so much money and he didn't have a good year. But he was never – I don't think he was ever healthy. I don't think there was one game this year where he was dinged up a lot. Right from camp. Right from camp he was hurt. So we don't know how good he can be. Who am I leaving now? Well, the one example – The one example I kind of wanted you to address or I want you to address is Belton was all tackled during camp and in preseason. But then he ended up having to play guard. But how did they not know that this guy might be a good guard? I mean, that was kind of one of the questions that came up is your NFL coaches. Like, part of your job is to determine if there's a spot where you can play this guy. Well, I think they did think that. I mean, he was another tackle. They know about tackles going to guard. But I don't think they thought. I think they figured in their mind that they were okay at guard with Banks and Ryan. Right. Yeah. Yeah. They thought, you know, if Jenkins, if in their mind, their, their best line was going to be Walker, Banks, Jenkins, Ryan, and Tom. And if nobody ever got hurt, that probably Belton would have just been a backup. Morgan would have been a backup. And that would have been that. If those five stay healthy and play well, you know, but they're fortunate that they had a guy like Belton who was able to switch the guard. I thought Belton was going to be honest, and I think I wrote it even. When they drafted Belton, I said, where the hell is he going to play? Right. Because they had Tom, and they had Walker, and they had Morgan. So I'm thinking. But if you have your tackle set, and I mean, take the Walker, Rasheed Walker thing out of the equation, because I support why they kept him. I think they probably felt like they needed Morgan at guard, but they didn't even know that Belton could play guard because he didn't play too badly when they put him in there. But he played. I mean, his choice was being sitting on the bench and tackle or playing guard. He played guard and he played. He is going to be there. I mean, again, who knows what the future brings, but if Morgan's as good as they hope he is, because they took him in the first round. And as I think he is, because I wanted them to take him in the first round, I think Morgan and Tom are going to be a good set of tackles for quite a few years. Yeah, and if they draft the center and he works out and they don't bring Sean Ryan back, then they're going to plug Anthony Belton in at right guard, I'm assuming. And that'll be his spot. And there's your right guard. He might be your third. If Tom has to miss a game or Morgan has to miss a game for whatever reason, they probably would kick Belton back out to tackle and put somebody else in a guard, you know, because as of right now, again, we'll see how the roster looks when it's all said and done, but maybe not. I take that back. If they keep Kennard, he's probably your backup right tackle. So maybe Belton would just stay at right guard. I don't know. I'll be honest. Let's look like we're putting everything out there. I was a bit shocked that they took Belton in the second round last year. I thought for sure they were going corner or defensive. I thought they were going after taking golden in the first round. I thought for sure they were taking something on defense in the second round. Well, that's the prototypical, or that's the ultimate not drafting for need. You're drafting the best player on your board. And they do that. I mean, every team says it, but the Packers seem to do it. That's why their pick takes about 10 seconds. You know, like when you're walking the draft and it says Packers are on the clock, you could count and nine and it goes in unless you're making a trade if it goes past a certain time i always say oh they must be making a trade back or something and that's what usually happens because they don't waste time they don't sit there and argue they they have their board and they decide that okay the top player on the board that's who we're taking and belton must obviously was their top player on the board uh ahead of whoever else i wanted right good stuff good stuff i mean for for a thursday in late february not bad and you know what's gonna happen right yes we're keeping this yeah well by some time just about just about after you're done going over it and sending it to andy we'll we'll get a really you know i'll get an email packer's name whoever special teams coach yeah i should have pre i should have precursed that at the beginning of the show so everybody understands hey we didn't just miss it we just recorded too soon i guess i don't know but yeah the packers will probably do something so fingers crossed but what's happening over a packer report well i have a story up now but it's interesting i think i i i picked some players defensive players who i think will you'll know you'll i think i used the word thrive that might have been too strong um some players on the packet defense that will be better under Jonathan Gannon than they were under Jeff Halfway, just because of the system that Gannon plays. I think they're better fits. So I'm not going to tell you who they are. I want, cause I want you to go read the story. Okay. All right. Very good. Excellent. So we'll be back at it again next week. Thanks everybody for all the content, comments, questions, send your, send your content, send your thoughts and everything. We always appreciate everyone's support. We get a lot of messages and there's a lot of support for the Thursday edition of the Pack of Day podcast and listen to the other shows as well. We've got content seven days a week. Andy, obviously doing a great job over there with everything that he's doing. So there's no shortage of Packers football in your life between now and football season starting up again. So hope everybody's spring is going well. It's baseball season. Now the teams have reported spring training kicked off this past Friday. So it's active here in Arizona. My roadways are all jammed up and packed with people going to the baseball games while I'm trying to get to work. So it makes me jealous, but I'm happy for them. I can support them in that. Thanks everybody again for listening to the Thursday edition of the Pack of Day podcast. And as always go Packo. Bye.