It's the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. Hey, everyone, this is Ross Jackson, one of the hosts of the lockdown podcast network. If your group chat's been a little quiet lately, I want to invite you to come and join ours. If you sign up for the everyday or club, you get access to the members only group chats for your favorite teams, plus national chats for every sport. Personally, I love watching folks talk a little smack in the NFC South trash talk chat. You also get an ad free version of your favorite locked on show and a whole lot more. You can check it out by tapping the everyday or club link in the show notes. Pre-Draft visits can usually tell us a lot about where Brian Gudekinst is looking in the draft, but this year he's been particularly cagey so far. You are locked on Packers, your daily Green Bay Packers podcast, part of the locked on podcast network, your team every day. You are locked on Packers, part of the locked on podcast network, your team every day. I'm Peter McCauske and I cover the Packers for the leap. A newsletter I would love for you to subscribe to. Thanks to everyone who makes locked on Packers. They're first listen every day. We hope you like starting your day with us as much as we like starting our day with you here on the locked on podcast network. The number one sports podcast network. We are going to talk about fixing the mistakes of the 2022 drafts, which we did in free agency, but I think the question is, are they fixed through free agency? Have they done enough and do they still have to go further? I want to talk about some big free agency misses that the Packers have had over the years because John Eric Sullivan was in the news recently talking about one of them. But let's start with the pre-draft visits because Brian Utikin has had a very bad poker face when it comes to these things. I know that fans like to think, oh, you know, they'll do misdirects and they're bringing in someone just to throw you off the scent. No, they're not. No, they're not. No, they're not. If you look at the 2025 class, who did they have more pre-draft visits with than any other position? Receiver. They took two. Let's just go through. They had a pre-draft visit with Taylor Algorithma who ended up being in training camp. They met with Matthew Golden and Savion Williams in addition to Ted McMillan and Emeka Ibuka, the combination of McMillan, Golden and Ibuka told us they are looking at the top of this draft and then again at the end of day two, Isaiah Bond from Texas, Savion Williams from TCU, Tori Horton from Colorado State and Ty Felton from Maryland are all, we're all seen as late three, early fourth type players. That's where they went. And that's where the Packers drafted these guys. They also had Anthony Belton in for a pre-draft visit. They had a bunch of pass rushers in for a pre-draft visit. They didn't take any of them. Now they had Michael Williams, Shamar Stewart, James Pierce, those guys all end up coming off the board before they get a chance to take them. But they do take Baron Sorrell at the top of day three. And then they look at some cornerbacks at the end of round one, early round two, but they also brought in Micah Robinson who ended up being part of their draft class. So that's like more than half of their draft class were guys that came in on visits and we were able to see, okay, they're looking at a lot of receivers, a lot of offensive linemen, a lot of pass rushers. We kind of had a feeling about what this was going to be. There is really no through line with these pre-draft visits except it's mostly UDFA type players. And all of the UDFA type players are freak athletes. Like they're all nine to relative athletic score guys or better tested outstanding. In the case of like Anthony Smith at Eastern Carolina, he was, you know, he went, he had a college all star game productive checks all the boxes at receiver for the Packers. And so Jaden Duggar, same thing. He was part of a, an all star game. I think it was the Shrymbole elite athlete. But when you look at the, the guys on day two that they've had visits with, and this is just recorded visits for posterity. We know based on reporting, they've had visits with these guys. There may be more and there've been unofficial visits because remember, you don't need an official visit to meet with someone. Chris Johnson, the corner from San Diego state has said he's had a couple zoom calls with the Packers. He just hasn't been to Green Bay on an official visit. So Kristen Miller from Georgia. We just got the reporting. He has an official visit. Mike Washington, Jr. The running back from Arkansas, who we're going to do a goodies guys on. We already did a goodies guys on Kristen Miller. We already did a goodies guys on Ted Hurst, who was also on this list, Mike Washington, and then Caleb Proctor, the defensive tackle from southeastern Louisiana. The only other guy in the top 100 that they've done a visit with was Romelo height from Texas Jack, who is an intriguing past rusher, but they, they haven't really looked at a lot of these other past rushers. And you know, if you want to do the subterviews thing, maybe they bring in Romelo height to ask him about Lee Hunter to ask him about Jacob Rodriguez, because he could tell you a lot about some of these other guys that, but that just, that seems like galaxy bringing it to me. I think the Packers, because they don't have a first round pick are just genuinely trying to figure this out, because it is going to be so much harder to game this out for them. Like when you pick at even 2930, you know, more or less who's going to be there. And I think in fact, that's probably why sometimes I think the Packers end up reaching at the end of the first round, because they're like, maybe let's fall in love with someone we know is going to be there. So we're not so tempted to trade up, which the Packers have done a bunch, right? They trade up for Jordan Love. They trade up for Darno Savage. They trade up for Gerald Alexander after trading back, but they trade up. So they have a history of trading up in the first round. I don't think it's out of the question that they would trade up in this draft, especially if one of these corners drops, if Brandon C. Say or Chris Johnson falls into the mid 40s, which is not, you know, totally out of the question, but I would be pretty surprised. I think these, these past rushers and offensive linemen and receivers are, are going to push down some of these corners because it's not a clean cornerback class. We've talked about that. I wrote about it today for the leap newsletter. I would love for you to subscribe to. I just think the Packers are leaving their options open. And I also don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, you look at someone like Ted Hurst, he went to Georgia State. You'd really like the talent is there. I love Ted Hurst. I think he's a top 50 kind of player. And I think if he had gone to Memphis or Georgia tech or, you know, even a wax school that maybe he goes in the first round, I think that's how talented he is. But you want to get fully comfortable with a player like that. If you're going to use him at, if you're going to pick him at 52, which would be higher than consensus as of right now and almost a full round higher than consensus, I would be fine with it, but I think you need to be very comfortable with the person. Caleb Proctor from Southeastern Louisiana. Yeah. The LSU tape is really good. And, and he dominated his level of competition, but he played at his level of competition. You'd want to get really comfortable with the player. His consensus rank is 107. I think he's a top 70 player in the strap. If they took him at 52, I'd be a little, be a little surprised, but I would get it. I think I have him as that my 60th overall player. He's a really, he's better to me than Pete Woods, who's going to go in the first round at worst is going to go top 40. Probably. I think that's insane. Insane. Caleb Proctor is a similar size, a better athlete and has a more diverse past rush repertoire already. And they're a pretty similar age. Caleb Proctor is not even 22 yet. If you haven't listened to our, our goodies guys series on Caleb Proctor, go listen to it because I, I gushed, I gushed and I gushed because I think he's really good. So the Packers look at it's possible. I had, I had someone float the idea to me on Twitter that, you know, maybe they're doing this because they're, they're keeping their powder dry for a trade and then they want to focus more on UDFAs. I don't think that's likely. I don't, uh, it was just a theory. It's not like that's some sourced reporting. That's just a theory and I mean, it wouldn't be surprising. It, it has been atypical the way that Brian Utikens has operated this pre-drop process with all of these guys who are not even close to the consensus in terms of draftable grades. I mean, Anthony Smith is not even on the consensus. There's 700 guys on the consensus board. He's not on it. Josh Gueski, not on it. TJ Quinn, the linebacker from Louisville, not on it. Jacob Thomas, the safety from James Madison is 479. So like not a draftable player. It's a lot of UDFAs. Jayden Duggar, the linebacker from Louisiana, 311 on the consensus board. Like that's, that's UDFAs scouting. Why are they doing that this year? That was a Ted Thompson thing. Are they just not expecting to have draft picks? Is there some big thing coming? Are they going to make the Dexter Lawrence trade? I don't think so. By the way, we talked to Patricia Traynor from Lockdown Sports today or for Lockdown Sports today from Lockdown Giants. She thinks this is going to get done. She thinks they're going to, you know, get an extension worked out and there's not going to be a trade. So then what are they doing? Are we going to just learn a lot more the next couple of weeks that they've met with a bunch more players and we're going to get a better feel for this? Maybe. Or the Packers by virtue of not having a first round pick are just having to cast a wider net and they're just going to take best player available. The pressure is off a little bit because they don't have a first round pick. I think the pressure is different on a second round pick. And so maybe they're just like, look, you know, we just, we're going to follow the board and take the best guy. And, and you hope so because, you know, they had some issues in 2022 with BPA and not worrying about positional value and they're dealing with the consequences now. Have they fixed those issues? We'll talk about it next. This episode is sponsored by better help. Financial stress is something a lot of people are carrying right now and it's not just about numbers. It can affect your sleep, your relationships, your overall mental health and ways that build up over time. And the reality is struggling with money doesn't mean you've failed. Sometimes it just means you haven't had the right kind of support. There, there is a stress of expectations of having it all figured out, having it all together and how that pressure can spill into other areas of your life. This is a person thing. This is, this is something that everyone has to deal with at some point in some way or another. Therapy isn't about financial advice. It's about working through the stress, the anxiety and the emotions that come with it with over 30,000 licensed therapists and more than 6 million people serve better help makes it easier to get matched and start focusing on what you need when life feels overwhelming. Therapy can help sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com. That's better. H-E-L-P.com. Slash. Locked on. Don't forget to check out the everyday or club that gives you ad free episodes of locked on Packers plus a link to the group chat with other listeners of the show. And of course me, I'm there. Tap the link in the show notes or go to lockedonpackers.supercast.com. One of the things that we talked about, about the free agent group. And the needs you had to go out and fill was it was based on the failings of the 2022 draft. Or at least not the failings because I think that is too harsh of a phraseology because Romeo Dobbs did not fail as a day three pick. In fact, that's a home run day three pick where she'd walk or did not fail as a day three pick. In fact, that was a home run pick. Kingsley and Ibarre did not fail. But those players are not on the team anymore. And so you've had to over the last few years, figure out how to replace those guys. Now, when you have a draft class like 2022 and 2023, they became foundational drafts for the Packers as they make the early stage Jordan Love runs. Now we've just cycled through 2022. And we came out the other side with. Zach Tom, basically, now Zach Tom is a Pro Bowl borderline, all pro level right tackle when he's healthy. And so that's a pretty good player to have. You came out with Sean Ryan, who's a starting center for the Packers. We'll see if that's what he is in terms of quality moving forward. And having two offensive line starters and guys that you feel, you know, pretty good about, that's a really good place to be. But, you know, it'd be better if Romeo Dobbs had developed into something more. Christian Watson got his one year extension. We don't know what his future is going to look like. Are the Packers going to pay him 28, 29, 30 million dollars a year? He's on this team right now. But the Packers have to be thinking about the future. And you have to assume that what they did last year was an eye, not just to the future of Romeo Dobbs, but of having some insurance for Christian Watson. And we've talked about Christian Watson insurance on our goodies guys series in particular. You go out and you have to replace Kray Walker. He leaves. You have to trade for Zaire Franklin. But I think that's a good trade for the Packers. I think that they have upgraded that position. I think they're in good shape there. They gave him money that not that it precludes them from taking a linebacker, but I think it sets them up where unless they're just blown away with the value, like someone like Anthony Hill or Jacob Rodriguez, who's like a borderline top 40 kind of player on their board, let's say, is there at 52 and they're like, we can't not take this guy. It's not so much money that you're paying Zaire Franklin that that would you would make that, you know, unworkable in some way. But they don't have to do anything there. I think they're set at linebacker at least for a year or two. Now Devante Wyatt, who was their next pick, defensive tackle is still very much a question mark. Like defensive tackle. I think you can make the case is, is one of their priority needs. Even after signing Javan Hargrave, Carl Brooks last year of his deal, Devante Wyatt playing on his fifth year option. There's some, some major questions about though the future of those guys. On this team, defensive tackle is, is at or near the top of the needless for the Packers, not hitting on Devante Wyatt has the trickle down effect of still being a problem for the Packers in the year of our Lord 2026. And by the way, this is part of why you don't draft an older prospect in round one is, okay, what is he going to be in three or four years? Well, the answer in the case of Devante Wyatt is 28. And so like that's, that's not where you want to be giving out a second contract. Now they can use, again, they're going to use their, their fifth year option. I just, I find it hard to believe Devante Wyatt is going to get a contract. I think it's more likely they give Carl Brooks some sort of Dean Lowry light contract and let Devante Wyatt walk. And you know, if they want to get some compics in there, great. I don't think they're even worried about that. That's why you see Kristen Miller. That's why you see Caleb Proctor. And I know the consensus says Caleb Proctor 107, whatever. I think at 84 Caleb Proctor do it. No doubt I would be in for that. And yes, he's similar to Javon Hargrave as a penetrating three technique. And yes, he's similar to Devante Wyatt or Carl Brooks, who are best suited as penetrating three techniques, but he has also potentially a core player moving forward at that spot and is under contract at that spot now for four years. Whereas Wyatt and Brooks come off the books at the end of this season. That is a major question. Now, Christian Watson, you trade up in the second round. In retrospect, you should have just taken Christian Watson in the first round. I said this in real time, you guys. And everyone was very mad at me for the things that I said about Kwe Walker and Devante Wyatt, which have turned out to be pretty true. Okay. You know, just just think it's worth pointing out here how much slack, how much, how much I was dragged for my Kwe Walker takes and my Devante Wyatt takes. And I've been right really all the way through about those guys. Christian Watson as a first round player, you basically get to play him on his fifth round or fifth year option this year. You gave him that mini extension probably cheaper. Frankly, I haven't looked at the receiver options lately, but this is probably cheaper than his fifth year option would have been or it's right in that range. And I don't know that he's. 30 million dollars worth of player. But I think the Packers would want to give him that contract and I, you know, look, if you could give him the Alec Pierce deal and structure it the way the Packers like to structure it, I kind of think you have to do that. Like if you look at yards per run over the last couple of years or no, it's yards per target. Ian Hart has had this yards per target. The two top guys in yards per target, I think over the last three seasons are Alec Pierce and Christian Watson. Now it, it favors heavily these guys that are that are downfield deep ball guys, but those guys are really valuable, especially if you're getting a decent amount of volume. So Christian Watson is one of the preeminent deep threats in the NFL. One of the preeminent deep ball winners in the NFL, big play creators in the NFL playing in an offense that wants to do that. Call Shanahan called it their superpower. Like he loves watching the Packers throw the ball deep because they've got a quarterback that's really good at it. They've got receivers that are good at it. They've got a coach that's really good designing opportunities. So you're, you're in a good shape with Christian Watson. I think they're gonna, they're gonna, you know, move forward with him. Sean Ryan. As I said, Sean Ryan is a great coach. Sean Ryan, as I said, got his contract and then they've built an off ramp for Romeo Dobbs who built himself into a really nice football player, but Matthew Golden, I think is going to slide right in there. Now Zach Tom, he's still a core piece. Sean Ryan, they're paying him now like a core piece of this team. And so 2022 remains a foundational draft for this team. There are two pieces of their starting offensive line that are now under contract for the next three years came from that draft. If Christian Watson gets an extension, that is an essential piece of your offense. And you got five years out of your, out of your defensive tackle pass, rusher guy, you know, it's not a, it's a, it's a pretty good draft. It's not as good as it seemed at the time in terms of the foundational nature of it. The 20th, 23 draft is looking very much the same. That looked like it could be one of the drafts. Like, Oh man, if Jaden Reed and Don Tavion wicks and Carl Brooks keep looking like this, the way they looked in 2023 and then the, the upward trajectory that seemed like in 2024, like, Oh wow, this is going to be special. And it just, it hasn't quite come together that way. And we could be sitting here in a year going, you know, if 2023 had gone, that draft had gone a little bit better. If they take Jackson Smith, the J-Bot instead of Lucas Van Ness, do they have a Super Bowl trophy already? And, you know, if you're a Packers fan, you're hoping, okay, the conversation is actually, would they have hoisted it the year before instead of the year after? Could they have gone back to back, which I can speak to the jig, but that would, that would be the more fun conversation to be having. I guess we'll see. Um, I want to talk about free agency and the, um, rewriting of history. That tends to happen with these guys. We'll talk about it next. When a free agent leaves and goes on to have success, what often happens is fans, and this is not unique to Packers fans, we'll say, what a mistake. I always knew that they were really good. And the Packers should have, should have kept them and should have paid them. And we entirely allied the context in which those decisions were made. And we forget, like, like, like you do when you, you have a relationship that doesn't end well and time passes and time passes. And eventually when you say, and time passes and time passes and eventually when you think back on that, you think you mostly remember the happy times, not necessarily that you're wistful about it, but you're just like, yeah, I remember the good stuff and I forget how toxic it was or whatever it is. That's what happens with, with these free agent sometimes. Like, and this, and it came because John Eric Sullivan said he felt like the biggest mistake that the Packers made while he was there, one of the best players he's ever been around was Michael Hyde and they should have kept him. Well, okay, but he wasn't in Green Bay. He was not an elite player in Green Bay. He was a role player and an inconsistent one and one where we didn't know what he was great at. He was the best punt return they've had in 30 years. But they had Morgan Burnett and Ha Ha Clinton Dixit Safety and he wasn't very clearly a boundary corner. He also really wasn't a slot corner the way we think of slot corners. And I think it would just be like a ridiculous hegeography to act like, oh no, he was this rising superstar and the Packers let him walk. That's not true. What we saw in Buffalo is not anywhere near the player we saw in Green Bay and that's okay. I said at the time I would not have given him the deal the bills gave him and that turned out to be wrong because of the player he turned into. But given what we had seen, I will always insist we did not have a reason to believe nor did he have a path in Green Bay to being that guy that he eventually became in Buffalo and good for him. He made a lot of money and he became a really great player and I'm genuinely like very happy and was always happy for him to have that success. I blame Dom Capers for that. I don't blame Ted Thompson for that. The same way I don't blame Ted Thompson for Casey Hayward. I blame Dom Capers. They had Casey Hayward playing in a scheme that did not fit his skills. Casey Hayward early in his career breaks out is terrific as a rookie and then has injuries. Never finds that consistency again. Never finds that playmaker instinct again and is playing miscast in a defense that does not fit him. And the Packers say okay, it doesn't make sense. And he walks and he goes to a scheme that was perfect for what he does and ends up being an all pro. I remember it being written about in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel at the time. I can't remember if it was Tom Silverstein or Bob McGinn or who it was. But one of those guys was like, look, he's not making impactful plays anymore. And there were injuries. Like let's not rewrite history on this. Look, I said at the time the bills did not offer very much money. And the Packers, according to Micah Hyde, basically offered nothing. Said we don't think we can afford you, you know, good luck. But he ended up getting a five year 60 or five year 30 million dollar deal. And I said at the time I would not have done that again. Clearly wrong. They should have swapped. Said Micah, you know, how Clint Dix via Condios, Micah Hyde, come please play the back end of our defense. They did not do that. But that is a failure of Dom Capers. It's hard for me to land that at the feet of the front office. They can only do with what the coaches allow them to do. And you only see what the coaches allow you to see. We think of the great play against the Cowboys in the playoffs and think that, well, that was Micah Hyde. Well, no, it wasn't. He created some big plays. He also had real problems with speed. He had real issues covering receivers, real issues playing as a deep middle and deep half safety at times for the Packers. With what the Packers were asking him to do. He was solid and inconsistent. Casey Hayward at the end, solid, inconsistent. Undercised. And so I don't want it to get lost to history. Like these, like everyone thinks, oh, like the Packers made this huge mistake in real time and these guys were going to go on to be all post. No one thought that. No one thought that except, you know, Hawkeye homers. Give me a break. No, that's not to say that they weren't mistakes. They were. But also you look back over the last, you know, 25 years. Not very many of those. Not very many of those. And those were also late career Ted Thompson's. Remember, they, they should have, they probably should have resigned Julius Peppers too. That's a real one. Like he was still really good and left and was really good for Carolina still. But that was, that was late Ted Thompson when, you know, his health was starting to fail him. His ball was making more of those decisions. Who's not a football guy necessarily. And he ended up, you know, trying to learn more of the football side as Ted Thompson is deteriorating in health and all of those things. And so if you're going to have a criticism, it is that the Packers did not step in sooner to get a succession plan together. But 2016 happens that off season by 2018. Brian Hudekins is in charge. So it's not like, you know, they, they waited for years and years and it was the 2015 draft that ultimately spelled the demise of Mike McCarthy. Ted Thompson takes the collar basically in 2015 and they cannot do anything with those guys. And it leaves you in a really bad position moving forward. You can't afford to have drafts like that. Does that mean the writing was on the wall then? Yeah, maybe, maybe. But I don't, I don't want his, the reason I bring this up now is number one. John Eric Sullivan was quoted on our pal Kevin Clark's show about this. But if Quay Walker goes to Las Vegas and plays well, even if he plays relatively well, people are going to say the Packers never should have let him go, blah, blah, blah. Guys, he was not a good player for the Packers and the money that they gave him did not make sense. I would so much rather have Zaire Franklin for half the cost annually than what Quay Walker got. It is just no contest. And so I don't, like, let's remember who they were in Green Bay at the time because as time passes, we're only going to remember the good stuff. We're only going to remember the big plays. We're only going to remember that one play Mike Ahide made against the Cowboys. An incredible play and we're going to forget the time, you know, that he got beat across the field running in man coverage or that he missed this tackle or that he dropped the game ceiling interception against the 49ers in the playoffs. We'll just forget that part. We'll just forget that one. That one didn't count. No worries. Mm hmm. Okay, that's not how it works. All right, back tomorrow. We got more goodies guys for you. I can't wait. I can't wait. I've been promising the running backs for too long. Let's get to the running backs. Mike Washington reportedly had a visit with the Packers. That's a name that I think we're going to need to know. I think there are running backs that the Packers are going to be willing to take. I think Mike Washington could be one of them. And so we're going to, we're going to dig into that coming up here in the next couple of weeks. 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