Does THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA 2 rock the sequel trend? + STEVE COOGAN

Hey, Mark, you know I'm really massive techie, right?

0:00

No.

0:03

If you saw me at my local coffee shop in showbiz North London, you'd probably mistake me for Neo from the Matrix. Without the illegal hacking or sunglasses indoors, obviously.

0:04

What are you talking about? You're having some sort of breakdown. Do you actually even own a computer?

0:14

What I'm talking about, I'm on it now. Talking to you is the transformation my web browsing has been through. Now that I've got NORDVPN on all my devices, I use NORDVPN to keep my online activity safe with encryption, threat protection and dark web alerts to guard against hackers and to secure public WI fi.

0:18

Well, welcome to the future, Simon. I've been doing that for ages. And with one click, NORDVPN can change your device's virtual location so you can access all the things you need when you're abroad.

0:40

Unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to nordvpn.com take with our link.

0:49

You'll get an extra four months free on the two year plan. And it's risk free with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. Check the link in the description.

0:56

Hey guys, this is Molly Sims, host of Lipstick on the Rim. So I have a little bit of a pet peeve that I think you're going to relate to this. I'll be having a great day, feeling good, and someone will say to me, you look tired. And I'm like, I promise you I'm not really tired. But here's what I've learned. My eyelids, they do sit a little low. And once my doctor explained that to me, it actually kind of made a lot of sense. She prescribed me up the first and only FDA approved prescription eye drop for adults with low lying eyelids. One drop per eye. In the morning, and I noticed my eyes look more open, awake within minutes. It's like just one simple step. That's it. And the results? Guess what? They last up to eight hours. Learn more about up.com that's you P N E E Q.com or talk to your doctor. Just a little quick safety note about upneek. Oxymetazoline hydrochloride ophthalmic solution 0.1%. Tell your doctor your symptoms and medical history, including blood pressure, blood flow, issues in heart, brain or eye disease. Drooping eyelids can be caused by other more serious conditions such as a stroke. Do not touch the tip of the upne vial to your eye or any other surface. This is not a complete list of risks.

1:05

Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus

2:16

reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film

2:23

and non film questions answered as best we can in questions.

2:29

You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

2:33

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguardist, Easter, we salute you. You look very chipper, Mark, I have to say, beautifully lit.

2:40

Yes,

3:06

it'll look a million dollars, I would say. Thank you.

3:09

I'm feeling good, actually. I'm feeling. I'm feeling really. The rowing machine is paying off.

3:11

Oh, you've got a rowing machine?

3:16

Yeah. I hate it. I ha it.

3:17

Yes.

3:19

It is like something out of Ken Russell's the Devils. It is a medieval torture instrument.

3:20

That is correct.

3:25

And I absolutely hate every minute of being like. People keep saying, oh, you know, when you're doing all this fitness stuff, it's really great because after a while you get into the thing, you go, no, you don't. It's just horrible. But. But it works. Now, there's two things I need to show you. This is a gift that my sister Annie gave to the good lady professor, her indoors. Good lady professor, her indoors wanted to be absolutely clear that it was a gift to her rather than something that she got right. So Annie gave it a look. It's a. It's a service bell. And. And we said, well, what's that for? And he said, well, you know, it's like when you need Mark to do something, you know, you just go,

3:26

or do it again.

4:01

Hang on.

4:02

And the next word is. That is only funny to very old people.

4:04

Very, very old people.

4:09

Call My Bluff. Presented by Robert Robinson.

4:10

Earlier on, as we were just getting stuff together, Simon Poole was reading a book by Albert Camus. And you made a joke.

4:12

He was looking at the pictures.

4:21

Yeah. And you made a joke about. I'm a camus, a mother camo. Which again, is a joke that only applies to very, very old listeners, even

4:22

older people, because Flowers and Swan is the 1950s. And I only know about it because my parents used to listen to their records.

4:30

Anyway, I'm going, I've borrowed this bell. So I'm going to. When I. When I. When I need something. And the second when you need something

4:36

from the production team.

4:43

From the production team. Just going to do that. It's like the second thing is you are sitting next to a handsomely appointed bookshelf. You can only see this if you're watching on. On YouTube. And what's happened is that you have had this beautiful bookshelf built, but you have filled it with what?

4:43

Well, I haven't, but my. But the good lady ceramicist who's in charge of filling it was her idea to get the bookshelf anyway. And she's rearranged my books as. So basically it's only my books. Your book, me, the books I have written, which.

5:02

Literally. A bookshelf of your own books.

5:17

Yeah, the unsold. The unsold works. Every single one of them, including Polish and Russian and Estonian books.

5:20

Well, you have got there a copy of the Korean edition of the movie Doctors, which is the most spectacular thing. We, you know, we had nothing to do with this at all, but it's an absolutely brilliant kind of 1950s science fiction cover.

5:28

Hasn't got. And it hasn't gotten.

5:41

The COVID hasn't got on the COVID It's got like a. Like an image of a doctor with X ray eyes. And the title in Korean doesn't translate to the movie Doctors. It translates to something like Cinema goes to the hospital or Cinema needs medical attention. It's something very, very literal.

5:43

We should do some gigs in because I'm sure we're huge in particularly South Korea. Yes. We still have two listeners in the North. We won't go and do a show for them because you never know who they work for. But yeah, we. The world tour. When we go on the cruise in the summer, we should go to South Korea. What do you think?

5:59

I'd be great. Absolutely.

6:15

I have one other interesting idea for you.

6:17

Okay.

6:20

You know how we birdsong when rude words turn up in clips?

6:20

Yes.

6:24

Well, I heard a bird today, which. And. And our bird song is very gentle. It's very British. It's British bird song. That's what it is. Whereas the words that they replace are kind of, obviously, by their very nature, they're vulgar words, they're offensive words. You know, people that.

6:25

Yes. The kind of words that Mark uses when attempting to set up his camera, for example.

6:42

Yes, yes, exactly. But are you aware of the white bell bird of New Zealand?

6:47

I am not.

6:52

Okay. I'm now going to play you the white bell bird of New Zealand. And this should If. When replacing swear words.

6:54

Right.

7:01

I think. Okay, you ready?

7:02

Yeah.

7:04

General Atmos. Nice little fluffy bird.

7:05

Right.

7:09

Yeah.

7:09

That's it.

7:12

What we go again.

7:13

That's a bird. That's A bird now that replacing some big effing farmer. Yeah, bit of effing and Jeff in a melon farmering. What we need is the white bell bird of New Zealand to come in and honk and squawk.

7:22

That's a remarkable noise. You know there are birds that imitate car alarms.

7:36

Yes, we've got one in the street over the road.

7:44

Or are you sure that's not just a car alarm?

7:48

No, we have a lot of those.

7:50

But when it gets hot, there's a

7:51

guy lives up the road and he opens his window and then we hear his parrot or whatever it is, you know, a parody kind of bird. And he does all kinds of sounds, including car alarms and telephones, that kind of stuff. Very confusing. Unless, as you say, it's just everyone's and people's photos. Anyway, when we eventually start to talk about films, what are we doing?

7:54

Well packed show. We have Devil wears Prada 2, which is the sequel, you know, two decades after the original Hokum, which is a horror movie. Surviving Earth, which is in cinemas now, opened last Friday. We didn't have room to fit it in. Last week's show was really good film. And then we're also going to be catching up with Lee Cronin's the Mummy in the. In the chart rundown.

8:14

Okay. Special guest is Steve Coogan who is back with a new series for Netflix called Legends. And in take two, what are you

8:38

up to there again? Two. Two absolute bangers. Mint, which is the TV series which has dropped. The whole of it has dropped on BBC iPlayer, all eight episodes. And there is a reissue in cinemas of Steven Spielberg's AI Artificial Intelligence. And I'm sorry, I actually started to choke up a bit even just saying it.

8:46

One of the films you change your mind about, Would that be fair?

9:05

It is. It's the one that I apolog. Apologize to Steven Spielberg for. And then he. And then he. Well, I'll tell you this when we get to it. But then I. I think he compared me to one of the greatest film critics of the modern age.

9:07

Yeah. And then you told him that Jaws wasn't about a shark. And he said, of course it is.

9:17

Yeah, that's right.

9:21

And you said pretty much. Because you made the film doesn't mean you know what it's.

9:22

Exactly.

9:26

Also in take two you get even more of the really groovy stuff, including. Five question Film club available for you.

9:26

Three questions, your majesty. Thank you.

9:32

I didn't pause their apologies for that. No interest for Cold War. Silence of the Lambs, Heathers, and with now and I amongst many others, head over to Patreon if you'd like to join the club. Plus you get all the other top quality content ad free. Although I do think that the ads are some of the best work that we do.

9:34

They are, yes.

9:51

Also questions which Mark and I will answer. The question, why are all coffee cups in movies empty?

9:53

Actually, weirdly enough, there is an answer to that.

10:01

Yes. James in Kent has sent us an email.

10:04

Okay.

10:10

Dear sensor and Sensibility, we're starting, you know, with the big stuff here.

10:11

Okay.

10:16

I really enjoyed the John Waters interview, particularly the discussion afterwards about free speech. I wanted to offer a brief thought on the phrase shouting fire in a crowded theater.

10:17

Okay.

10:25

Because I think it simplifies the issue more than it should. Most people agree that knowingly creating a false emergency that could cause physical harm should not be protected speech. But that extreme example tells us little about harder cases, unpopular political views, offensive speech, satire, blasphemy, or speech that causes social discomfort rather than immediate danger. The phrase comes from Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes 1919 opinion in Schenck versus the United States that the case had nothing to do with the theater. Charles Schenck and Elizabeth Baer were socialists convicted for distributing anti First World War draft leaflets. Holmes used the theater analogy while upholding their conviction, meaning the phrase was applied not to an imminent false alarm, but to political dissent. That history matters. The example we now invoke as a common sense limit on free speech was originally used to justify punishing anti war speech. When used in modern debates, it can make the hard questions feel settled when they aren't. The real issue is not whether speech can have consequences, but who gets gets to decide which speech is so dangerous it must be restricted. Shank should make us cautious about that cowardice. Up with uncomfortable questions and down with comfortable answers, says James in Kent. I think my issue with that and, and context and all of that, James, is great. Thank you. Because I didn't know about Schenck versus the United States and that United States. That's obviously where it originally came from.

10:26

Yeah.

11:57

But I don't think that's what John Waters was saying. I don't think he was particularly talking about Oliver Wendell Holmes or about anti war propaganda. I think he was literally saying he wants to be able to shout fire in a crowded theater. And free speech absolutists aren't talking about subtleties, they're talking about that. That's what I think.

11:57

But yes, I mean, thank you for the, for the email, which is very, very on point. I mean, the two phrases that are invoked, I mean, for me, this goes back to the 1980s and the no platforming debate. There's the, you know, George Orwell thing about.

12:17

You want to just. You've mentioned that a couple of times and I know what you're talking about. But on the no platform thing was everywhere in the 70s and 80s.

12:31

Yeah. So no platform was. There was a huge discussion about it. In the case of like, let's take Manchester University, no platform meant you're not censoring somebody, but you're not giving them a platform. So for example, you're going to. To not want Leon Britton to speak at the Manchester University Student Union. You're not censoring him, but you're not giving him a platform for his views. And then the opposition would say, well, you know, by. No platforming is a form of censorship. And then the two phrases then get invoked in response to that are the all world was paraphrased. You know, free speech is to mean anything, it must mean the freedom for people to say the things we don't want to hear. And then the oft quoted. Although I despise what you say, I will defend with my life. You're right to say it. So there was very, very heated debate about exactly what the nature of censorship was. For example, if Radio 1 doesn't play God Save the Queen by the Sex Pistols, are they censoring it? Well, there is an argument which is, no, they're not censoring it, they're just not platforming it. And that's where no platform comes from. So there is a kind of. There is a. There is a woolly area around what actually censoring speech means. I think you're completely right in the case of John Waters, because he was being, you know, possibly facetious, but what he was saying was, I ought to be able to shout fire in a theater. Meaning, you know, that's. That is a crisis. Yeah. Meaning. Meaning literally that. But it's one of the things I would say. I say this on a serious note, which I'll then immediately abandon for the rest of the program that when people talk about freedom of speech, it is a very complicated issue. It is not a twitterable issue. It is not something that can be solved with slogans. Because there is a really complex issue of what freedom of speech actually means.

12:38

Correspondence@kevin mayor.com and welcome to the show. But we might, you know, that might. But again, this podcast might not be the place to discuss that.

14:29

But no, but it's a better place to discuss it than Twitter. Simon.

14:37

Now, that that is. That is true. So, correspondence kevin.america.com. okay, so there's a big film. I've seen it on a bus. Devil Wears Prada.

14:41

Two. Two. Okay.

14:50

Yes.

14:51

Yeah. So, you know, two decades after the release. Of David Frankel's hugely successful adaptation of Lauren Weisberger's It's a Romana Clef. You know, Romana Clef is a kind of fictional story With a covert basis in reality. So the book was written by someone who had worked as an assistant to American Vogue editor Anna Wintour. And in the novel, Andy Sachs is a Browns University graduate. Who works for Miranda Priestley. Who is scary editor of Runway magazine and the titular devil. So the whole thing was seen to be, you know, a story about her time working for Anna Wintour. And on screen, those roles were perfectly filled by Anne Hathaway and Meryl Streep. With Emily Blunt as Miranda's initial assistant. Emily Charlton. And Stanley Tucci as Runway fashion editor Nigel Kipling. Who effectively kind of takes Andy under his wing. So all of those main characters are back for this sequel. As is screenwriter Alien Brush McKenna. This time working for an original story. There was a There was a sequel novel in 2013, which was revenge. Where's Prada? The Devil Returns. Anyway, so story is 20 years after the original film story. Andy is now a respected journalist who finds herself in need of a job. At exactly the same moment that Runway finds itself in need of some journalistic credibility. So a few creaky plot contrivances later. Andy is back at Runway as the features editor. To the disdain of Miranda. Who initially can't remember who she is. And then wishes that she could forget her. Miranda, incidentally, now has a lovely and benign husband. Played by Keneth Branagh. Who seems to exist along with Andy's love interest in a completely different movie. Anyway, Nigel is once again a somewhat comforting presence. As for Emily Blunt's character, she is now Dior. And loving the chance to throw some weight around his Eclipse.

14:52

Lots to discuss.

16:50

Mm.

16:51

Where would you like to start? Okay. So I am the new features editor at Runway. No, you're not.

16:54

Are you serious?

17:04

Wow.

17:06

Wonders never cease.

17:07

No, I'm actually a journalist now. I've been published in a. Doesn't matter. Anyway, we are all well aware that running that story was a mistake. And are taking immediate steps.

17:09

I cannot actually get over this.

17:19

It's really remarkable.

17:21

A senior editor at Runway.

17:23

You. Yep. We're all so thrilled.

17:26

Mm.

17:29

You know what's funny is You've changed.

17:30

You have.

17:32

You're much more confident.

17:32

Kept those eyebrows though, didn't you?

17:34

Can I just ask you a question about that clip?

17:36

Yes, go ahead.

17:38

I believe I haven't seen the movie. That was Stanley Tucci going, mm, wasn't it?

17:39

Yeah, it was.

17:46

And even though that was his only contribution to that clip, it kind of told you everything about where he was in that conversation with no words.

17:46

No, no, absolutely. So Emily has also managed to bag herself an extremely wealthy sugar daddy, Benji, who may be in a position to make her even more of a power player. Benji is the ex husband of Lucy Lou's Sasha Barnes, who is one of the richest and most powerful women on earth, with whom Miranda Priestley would love to get an in to get an interview. And she similarly has the ability to pull strings because of her wealth, as did Miranda's mentor, the owner of Runway, Ira, who then inconveniently drops dead, leaving his altogether less tolerable son Jay to take over the business and scupper Miranda's empire climbing plans. And the first thing you notice from this is there is an awful lot of plot. I mean, most of it feels entirely performative and perfunctory. I mean, it is just a way of getting characters that you knew and enjoyed 20 years ago back into situations in which they can do, do the thing that you enjoyed 20 years ago. Whilst I mean seriously that, you know, the plot of the original is really simple, right? Wide eyed graduate enters the world of fashion, encounters dragon like presence who scares and humiliates her. But finally she comes to understand her during the course of the drama, right? This is just a bunch of. I'm sorry, I don't believe a word of any of this in terms of the, of the machinations of the plot, none of it rings true. I can see what you're trying to do. You're just trying to put everybody back together on screen. And from the opening scene of this, in which Andy receives an award for her hard hitting journalism and immediately gets fired by the magazine, which is cutting all its journalists contemporary, to the final denouement in which. Can you have. Final denouement. That's probably a tautology, whatever it is, in which Andy and Moran. Can you have a. Yeah, the denim is a bit just before the film anyway, but to the bit at the end when there's this whole thing that the two of them team up together to pull this very unbelievable ace card out of their Louis Vuitton handbags. None of the plot, none of the plot makes any sense. At all. At all. It is literally just there to put the characters in the spaces together. That is kind of, you know, that's all right. That's what happens with sequels. Disappointingly so. However, the problem with this is that. Well, the first thing is, do you remember in the original film there is a great scene in which Miranda Priesy, who is this, you know, I said dragon, like Presence, does this really brilliant speech in which Andy says, you know, this whole thing is all irrelevant. And she says, oh, oh, really? It's irrelevant. It's got nothing to do with you. It's got nothing to do with the real world. Which is kind of amusing because you think that you've got, you know, you're exempt from all this fashion stuff. But that lumpy blue sweater that you're wearing, do you know how that got there? And then she does this thing about that sweater was actually selected for you by the people in this room. Because that sweater is not blue. It's actually cerulean. And that was something that was. And she does this whole kind of speech about how the. The kind of apparently functional sweater that Andy is wearing comes from this other. This whole kind of, you know, thousands of jobs within the fashion industry. And it's a great scene. And the reason it's a great scene is because it gives the sort nominal villain of the piece, the person who throws their coat at assistance and behaves really badly an argument for why they are who they are. And, you know, it does. The thing about. It kind of upends things. It's a bad comparison. But it's like the thing in. In the Dark Knight in which Joker says to Batman, don't do that. Don't do that. You and I are the same person. And does that great thing about, you know, it's one of those things. There is nothing of that caliber in the sequel. What there is is a couple of opportunities for Meryl Streep to do that haughty imperial thing that she does so well. I mean, the scene, the beginning, in which Andy is in the office and she doesn't even recognize her is really, really funny. Then there is some completely unnecessary and utterly unbelievable world turned upside down stuff in which they end up having to travel coach for the first time. And she's appalled by, you know, what it's like not being in first class. Then there's this nod to the change in the world from print journalism to online journalism and the stuff about journalism generally being under attack. And that is sort of there in order to give it a inverted Commas, contemporary edge, but I don't believe any of it. It's just zeitgeisty window dressing. As for Emily Blunt, I think she is poorly underserved by a script which kind of reduces her just to the level of caricature which she wasn't in the first film. And then there's the big set pieces. There's a big set pie in which Lady Gaga performs a song which just reminded me of Liza Minnelli coming out at the wedding in Sex and the City 2. Most importantly, it's neither funny nor biting enough to earn its keep. And watching this, you kind of understand why it is. It took such a long time for the sequel to come about, because for a long time the key cast members said they didn't want to do it, and then now they have done it. You go, well, you might have been right the first time. None of which is to say that this isn't going to be a hit. I mean, there is, you know, when you have the kind of talent that you've got on screen and those characters, of course, there are bits of it that are fun and people will go and they'll, you know. But here's the thing. Whilst the original is still memorable 20 years later, this is going to be forgotten 20 minutes after you've seen it. You might have a perfectly fine time in the time that you're watching it, but 20 minutes later, you're going to be very, very hard pressed to repeat the plot. It is not going to inspire any lumpy blue jumpers somewhere down the line. It is very, very. All right.

17:54

Because of the proximity of my new bookshelves, I've just. I just found the shorter Oxford English Dictionary. So this is like. Like an actual look. It's got Gil gold pages at the end. I've looked up denouement, okay? The unraveling of the complications of a plot or of a confused situational mystery. The final resolution of a play, novel or other narrative. It often follows the climax.

23:53

Oh, it follows the climax. Okay, fine. Typically. Typically fine. So we've probably been. Well, I've probably been misusing that word in that case. This is like an education, this program.

24:23

It's all because of the bookshelf. Would you. Would you say that hokum is a word to describe Devil wears proposal of 2?

24:32

Hokum is a film which is out this week. I know.

24:40

I was wondering if I could combine the two effortlessly.

24:43

It's really funny because if people aren't watching you on the. On. On the YouTube thing, they didn't see what you. When you were just saying that, you look like you were voguing, you literally went like that to explain tying the two things together. You look like you were throwing some moves.

24:48

Okay, so you're not gonna go with my gift of hokum?

25:01

If it works for you, yes, Simon, I would say it's hokum.

25:06

What else are we talking about next? Then?

25:09

We're going to be talking about a film called Hokum, obviously a film called Surviving Earth. We're going to be talking to Steve Coogan about his new TV series, which we're going to review next week. And we'll be doing the Laughter lift and the Chance.

25:11

Excellent. All coming up.

25:24

Fabio Sementilli.

25:32

Big heart, big voice, big laugh.

25:33

A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche.

25:36

He was like a wizard behind the chair.

25:38

But killers came for Fabio in his own backyard.

25:43

You can't rationalize it. You can't figure it out.

25:46

There was rampant speculation about everything, but

25:48

every wild theory was wrong because the truth was even more unbelievable.

25:52

What?

25:57

Is anyone hearing what I'm hearing?

25:58

And even more heartbreaking, the uncertainty of

26:00

not knowing is a form of agony.

26:02

From Sony Music Entertainment and novel, this is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Coming May 1st to the Binge search for Cut Color Kill. Wherever you get your podcasts, subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free. Welcome to Crime Scene, the new weekly show from the binge where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of my Fugitive dad or dear Franklin Jones watching you. I'm an executive producer of the Binge, the true crime podcast network where we bring you a new series on the first of every for Crime Scene, I'm joined by my producer and co host, Cooper Maul, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and the crimes of Margo Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. I think what makes Crime Scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground. We're investigative storytellers. And so many of the stories that come across our desk we haven't been able to share with you until now. So if you're one of the millions of people have flocked to the binge for riveting storytelling, deeply investigated true crime series. Think of this as all the things that you love about those shows in a single episode. Join us every week in the Crime Scene office wherever you listen to or watch your shows. This is Crime Scene, available now.

26:06

Okay, here we are with the box office top 10, starting confusingly at number 10 with Akira, which.

27:45

Which I think is, you know, absolutely terrific. And it's. It. It's very good that it's. That it's back in cinemas. The interesting thing we were talking about before was they didn't get the live action thing off the ground. And the reason they didn't was because how could you do that live action when the animation is so great? And I think people have been going to see it on. On the IMAX screen, which is great because a lot of people will only ever have seen it on. On home viewing.

27:53

Number nine here. Number 17 in America, Fight Club. It's the 4K restoration which we talked about last week.

28:15

Yeah, I mean, I really like Fight Club. I think it's very good fun. It's amazing that it's now 15 certificate. As I said, kids today don't know they're born. Number eight is Exit eight, which I kind of enjoyed. You know, I thought it was. It. It is. It's an adaptation of a computer game which is known for its simplicity, but I kind of quite like the simplicity of the setup and I think it does it rather well.

28:21

Number seven, a new entry, Rose of Nevada.

28:44

Now, look at this. The weekend total for Rose of Nevada is 172,000. I mean, I know they opened it fairly wide, but that's a. That's a very, very good opening weekend. And I'm just. I mean, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled that a film made by a Cornish filmmaker on Wind Up Clockwork Camera has. Is a top 10 success. It's great. It is my favorite film of the year so far. I'd be surprised, but also delighted if I see anything else of that caliber this year. I mean, it's a really remarkable piece of work and just great that it's in at number seven. Hooray. Hooray.

28:47

Jamie. Jamie from Stanmore sends a photograph of a very large poster for Rose of Nevada on the side of a London bus.

29:24

Oh, right.

29:31

And says now that Rose of Nevada has been advertised on the side of buses in London, can we now say that films advertise on the side of buses are now excellent. This goes back a very long way to when we. I think we came up with a conclusion that if it's on the side of a bus, it's a bit pants.

29:32

Yes, but we. We.

29:47

Not anymore.

29:48

We with. No, hold on, you've forgotten something. We whisked through that when we appeared on the side of a bus. Precisely. So, Simon, when we came to Weyland Yutani and we became Comer de Meo's take, there were massive adverts on the side of buses. At which point we officially withdrew the. If it's on the side of a bus, it's pants. All right, we saw the light.

29:49

Becky and Dan say. My husband and I went. So this is mainly Becky, I think my husband and I went to watch Rose of Nevada last night at our favorite cinema, the wonderful new Lin Film House. I have to say this. This email is basically written by you.

30:10

Okay, okay. All right.

30:23

We loved it. We've been fans of Mark Jenkins filmmaking style since the brilliant bait and this latest venture is wonderful. We were utterly engrossed from start to finish. The fishing scenes were intense and visceral. The atmosphere and emotion throughout beautifully captured. And the mystery of the plot has kept us thinking and talking about it. The sign of a good film. Watching it in the fishing village of Newlyn where some of the filming took place added to the effect. We both agree it would be good to watch again as there were so many details that we might have missed first time. Thanks for the excellent podcast. Best wishes from deepest Cornwall, Becky and Dan, AKA Mark.

30:25

Basically, yeah, I didn't write that, but you're absolutely right. I. I could, I could well have done because I can walk to the new film house from my front door.

30:59

And just above Rose of Nevada at number six is the Magic Faraway Tree,

31:06

which I really enjoyed and it's doing really well. And we've had so many emails from people who've gone to see it. You know, they've gone out for a family outing and really, really enjoyed it. It's a terrific success.

31:11

And number five, number four in America is Lee Cronin's the Mummy.

31:22

So this came out when we were off from the pre records and it wasn't so preview screened in advance, so I couldn't review it. So I have now seen it. So do you want a quick capsule review of the Mummy, Lee Cronin's the Mummy?

31:26

Yes.

31:37

And.

31:37

And also we've got a clip, I think we have.

31:38

Yeah. So I mean, presumably calling it Lee Cronin's the Mummy, you know, to distinguish it from the Universal's the Mummy or, you know, or any of the other Mummy of Tom Cruise and the Mummy, but also because it isn't really a mummy movie at all, as I said when it was in the charts last time, there was one reviewer called it the Exorcist with band. And that is what it is. It is a film which includes the memorable line, I'm not here to talk about taxes. I'm here to talk about Egyptian hieroglyphics. That is actually a line in the film. So Jack Ren and I Costa are a TV journalist and partner whose daughter Katie gets spirited away when they're on assignment in Cairo. There's this scary lady who gives her a secret friend at the end of the garden who gives a nectarine from which a demonic insect emerges, goes in into a child, disappears. Eight years later, child turns up after there's a plane crash which has got a sarcophagus in it. They open the sarcophagus and there is the bandaged child who is still alive but now looking like. Well, honestly, looking like Reagan in the Exorcist. The family take her back, but she's in this inverted commas, locked in catatonic state. And it soon becomes clear that as with Regan in the Exorcist, little girl has legions of problems. Unlike Exorcist, when the scariest moments are all those moments when you can't figure out whether it's, you know, is it Reagan or is it Pazuzu? This goes absolutely Lollapazuzu from. From the beginning. So there's loads and loads of Exorcist stuff. Here is a quick clip. Have a quick listen. It's very important you fully prepare yourselves

31:39

for what you're about to see.

33:18

No sudden moves, no loud noises. Hey, Butterfly, it's mom and dad.

33:23

Yeah, we are here. We're here.

33:36

She's been missing for eight years. What was our daughter doing in a 3,000 year old sarcophagus?

33:45

She just needs our care and lots of love.

33:54

Yeah.

33:59

What was she doing?

33:59

What was she doing? What was our daughter doing in a 3,000 year old sarcophagus? I'm not here to talk about taxes. I'm here to talk about Egyptian hieroglyphics. So look, I mean, Lee Cronin is an interesting filmmaker as far as this is concerned. I mean, I started originally just ticking off the Exorcist revenue. So, you know the facial disfigurement, which echoes Dick Smith's lopsided possession makeup, the fact that the nightgown appears to be completely based on Reagan when she first awakens out the thing and she's contorting and that's exact. And then there's a kind of pov. And Jason, I mean, it's literally like. It's that shot from the Exorcist that shot from the Exorcist. Levitation, spewing distended tongue. The mother is not going to have her in institution, you know, I mean, fine, it's perfectly perfunctory and functional. It's not great by any means. It's not terrible by any means. I mean, all of it is a lot better than Exorcist Believer. I mean, if we're going to have modern updates of the Exorcist, I'd rather have this than Exorcist Believer. The scary girl thing obviously has been done a million times in a million movies. Everything from Ringu to M3 gun. There's a. There's also a lot of other nods. There's a bit of Wes Craven's People under the Stairs. You know, they're in the walls. There's a bit of the Omen, the Wolves at the Gate. There's a bit of Spielberg's ET in it. There's a bit of Changeling. There's a bit of Silence of the Lambs. There's a bit of Exorcist 3 with Mrs. Clayley on the ceiling. And the longer it goes on, the sillier it gets. And it is way, way, way too long. But it's just. It's funny. I've. I've kind of got to the point that I now think, okay, people are just doing. They're just doing Exorcist riffs. And is it better or worse than the actual Exorcist sequels? And in this case, it's better. I mean, it's not much better, but it is better.

34:00

Okay, that's at number five, so the

35:48

drama is at number four, which I really, really enjoyed. That is shaping up as one of my films of the year.

35:51

Number three here and number three over there, Project Hail Mary. One of one of the big hitters in this week's top 10.

35:57

I'm just. I am sort of slightly surprised that you didn't like it more than you did. But I do understand the thing about. It's because you just literally finished reading the book and the book is so science rich. Yeah. I mean, it, yeah, it's, it's. It isn't the book, but I haven't read the book, but I think it is a really, really good film.

36:03

Number two here, number two there is the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which I

36:21

just thought was rubbish.

36:25

And number one pretty much everywhere. Yeah, I think is. Is Michael. And I mean, just looking at the. At the weekend total, it took more than everything else put together. It did by some by some way,

36:27

it's not just number one, it's very number one. And I. And before, I'm sure we have some emails, but before we do, I would just like to refer you to the fact they did say when I reviewed it and I didn't like it at all, that it's, you know, it may well be a bit. A very big hit. So there we are.

36:43

And so it turns out to be so. Matthew says. I admit I'm biased as I'm a huge Jackson fan, but I absolutely loved Michael. Great performances, particularly from Michael and Joe Jackson. I mean, I think you mean Jafar and Colman Domingo. But anyway, the film captured the era well and perfectly embodied Jackson's personality. A joyful cinema experience. Stephanie in Hertfordshire I went to see Michael on release day with my 17 year old film student daughter Maggie at my local World of Cine in Hemel Hempstead. I loved and loathed the film in equal measure. Great performances, but far too rose tinted. My daughter turned to me at the end and said he was so nice, wasn't he? To which I said that perhaps he was at the start. I feel quite strange about the film since I was 8 years old when BAD was released. So a huge fan growing up. I still have my program from the Bad tour. In later years I felt a big sense of betrayal by Michael Jackson and I guess that's how I feel about the film now and perhaps how my daughter will feel when she learns the true story. I think a lot of people are happy to ignore the elephant. Not in the film. Film people were singing and tapping along in our screening. See you in December at the live show as we have for the last two years. Okay, thank you.

36:59

Great, see you then. Thank you.

38:11

And Nick in Leeds says Dear Tito and Jermaine, this jaw dropping hagiography represents the culmination of surely the most cynically relentless attempt to un cancel somebody in the history of popular culture. Michael is a work of soulless avarice, a furious attempt to overturn the judgment of history and grease the wheels of a billion dollar juggernaut that both that both demise and disgrace have ground to a juddering halt. The film is more sanitized and shallow than Bohemian Rhapsody. And that's saying something. But without that film's Oscar winning star turn as its center anchor, I think a lot of the guy I like a lot of the guys music doesn't everyone but these days find it impossible to listen to it without the shadow of those other matters clouding my thoughts. It is ghoulish indeed. Which some may say is much like the man himself. Something any honest biopic has a moral duty to acknowledge, if not outright wrestle with. And this film fails to do so. So I guess that's a representative example. But, but interesting, particularly Stephanie's one that she went with her daughter and loved it and loathed it in equal measure. Which feels about right, don't you think?

38:13

Yeah, I mean, I briefly bumped into Robbie Collin at the screening of Devil Was Prada too, and we had a very quick discussion about it and Robbie said something that kind of echoes what I was saying, which was that in what it does, it does it perfectly well. It's, you know, it is, it is a nuts and bolts pop biped with a good central performance and absolutely banging tunes. But you can't, in my opinion, you can't ignore the story that it's not telling. And I think that having, I mean, I've seen enough pop biopics that gloss over the darker aspects of a, of a pop star's life. But in the case of this, because it is very, very recent history and it is, it is so in the public consciousness, no matter what you think about the allegations, you can't pretend they just simply don't exist. The other thing I would say is I think that this goes further than that in that it actually tries to sanctify Michael. It does have him as, oh, I've got this gift that I can save the world. And it's, yeah, no, that's not good enough. I have absolutely no idea what they're now going to do because the figures suggest that you have to do a second movie. Now, how are you going to do it? You know, what, what are you going to do for an encore? Right? Because if you pick up at the end of this film and you do the next film, what have you got? You've got him hanging a baby over the side of a hotel balcony. You've got court cases, you've got the weird business with Lisa Marie Presley, you've got the pop videos in which his face doesn't appear because, you know, I mean, I mean, hey, you want to make that film, go to it. But the numbers say you have to.

39:27

Yeah, but if you make that film, you won't have the blessing and therefore you won't have the music.

41:17

Precisely for my precise film, without them, precisely. The phrase that I use, my review is, watching it, I felt very, very uncomfortable because I think, I think you can't make that movie and pretend that none of this stuff exists.

41:22

We have Further discussion on films that have been out for a while in the overflow car park intake 2 available ad free on Patreon. And you'll be able to enjoy some of the very normal comments from Michael Jackson fans.

41:36

Oh, really? And apologies.

41:46

On our YouTube channel, takes and cold comfort in this week's Take Ultra.

41:48

Right.

41:55

I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart. And I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad free by subscribing to the binge podcast channel.

42:00

What podcast, Corinne? Tell us.

42:12

Oh, it's called Blink. Jake Handel's story. I created it about a man named Jake who I met who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements.

42:14

So this is definitely an amazing story

42:36

and it's very unique.

42:38

Did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world.

42:39

So if you have not listened to

42:43

it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good.

42:45

Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen and subscribers to the binge will get the entire season ad free. Plus you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on the binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple podcast or head to getthebinge.com Infamous is the gossip show that's smart.

42:49

We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top Model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s.

43:09

You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very smart about marketing herself.

43:16

We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy.

43:22

Brooklyn is their first kid.

43:27

He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults. A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life. And of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly and her

43:28

tagline was, the only thing I'm guilty of is being sha mazing.

43:53

Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous.

44:00

Okay, let's introduce you to our special guest this week. Aside from creating one of the most iconic characters in British comedy, Steve Coogan's acting career has, in case you've forgotten, seen him in 24 Hour Party People as Tony Wilson, around the World in 80 Days, Tropic Thunder, Filamena, which he co wrote and starred alongside Junior Dench. The look of Love, Stan and Ollie, the Trip with Rob Bryden, the Reckoning, where he plays Jimmy Savile. Chivalry and now Legends for Netflix, which comes out on May 7th. You'll hear our conversation with Steve Coogan after this clip from the show.

44:12

A war has started out there. People will read about it. I watch it on the tv, but we won't. We'll be too busy fighting it.

44:44

So it's heroin.

44:55

It's heroin.

44:57

And it's just us.

44:58

It's just us.

45:00

Sorry, when you say war, what exactly might that entail?

45:01

Well, we work out how it's coming in and then we, we stop it coming in.

45:05

And that's a clip from Legends. Steve Coogan, welcome to the show.

45:10

Thank you. Very happy to be here.

45:14

How are you?

45:15

I'm good, yeah. Life's treating me pretty well.

45:16

You seem to be incredibly busy. You seem to be having some really fantastic roles.

45:19

Yeah, I'm sort of, I think as I'm getting older, I'm sort of starting to get those kind of interesting character roles that one of the upsides of aging and also something else I've noticed is that younger people who liked me when they were not professional have now got jobs and careers and give me work. So that's another.

45:24

Yeah, another benefit of aging. So Legends is new on Netflix. It's a terrific series. Introduces to the. To the world of legends.

45:48

Steve.

45:56

I play the head of Customs. Set in the 90s, loosely based on a true story. There was a lot of heroin knocking around in the early 90s. Not that I'd know anything about that, but yeah, it was all pervasive and there was a sort of a war on drugs and it was the last hurrah of the Thatcher era, if you like, late 80s. And there was this a lot of rhetoric about clamping down on these huge influx. There was a rise in the number of deaths and heroin seemed to be flooding the streets of the country. And what happened was this. The government tasked the customs people with investigating and trying to stop the drugs coming to the country. So basically what happened is they were given a lot of leeway when a lot of them went undercover, not having been undercover before. So it was almost like taking people off checking bags at Heathrow and training them to be undercover detectives effectively and infiltrating these drug gangs, which is more or less what happened. So it sort of charts that period, sort of like a bunch of mavericks, really, who have to get professional.

45:57

Yeah, they have to get professional very quickly because these are very much ordinary officers. I mean, this seems to be part of the. The charm and the thrill of this series is these are not people who have had any kind of career in the police or the army or whatever. These are civil servants. A point that is made in the show. These are ordinary people.

47:09

Yeah, I play the sort of the head honcho who has to train them to be undercover, having once gone undercover myself. In the story I played Don. This is slightly jaded older civil servant who doesn't really take. Doesn't suffer fools gladly. So it was a lot of fun for me to be sort of immersed in this world and to play the sort of controller of operations. And this really good cast, Tom Burke was fantastic. Really great supporting cast. Half it's set in Liverpool, half it sets in and around London, folks, and then we go off to Turkey to sort of infiltrate this drugs gang. So it's. It's quite earthy, the script's really well written by Neil Forsyth, it's sort of quite edgy, it's witty, it doesn't tell, it's not too sanctimonious, too serious, but it is, it is a drama. But there's a nice lightness of touch to the script, which is why I was interested in doing it. And for me, it's always a vacation when I'm. I'm. When I'm just an actor for hire, it's all I have to do is turn up and say the words, not bump into the furniture and try and make a good fist of the job.

47:26

Tell us more about Don. So he's the head of operations, he's managing the team.

48:45

Yeah.

48:49

You're using your normal voice, I think, aren't you?

48:49

But how I'm using a version of more. I mean, I went to drama school where they tried to hammer it out and turn. Turn me into a receive pronunciation person, which I did for a few years and then I got tired of it and went back to being a Northerner. But, yeah, it's probably the closest any role I've done to using my own accent. I sort of slightly northern it up a bit more than it is, but it was very, very close to me. It was quite easy. You know, it's like one of those roles that for me is like slipping on an old jacket. I felt very comfortable and it wasn't a big stretch for me. I didn't have to spend months and months pretending to be ahead of customs to get where I needed to be.

48:52

You can be a civil servant quite easily, Steve.

49:34

Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Thanks. The nicest thing anyone's ever said to

49:36

me, what has happened to Don in the past, because it's a very moving scene where you're having like a late night dinner with Tom Burke and as you say, he's absolutely fantastic. And you're basically saying, you know, you might not come out of this. It's called Legends, obviously, because that's the name when you adopt a different character, which these ordinary officers have to have to do to infiltrate the gangs in Liverpool, in London. But clearly Don is a damaged guy by the fact that he has been undercover. What do we know about him?

49:39

First of all, you're right in saying that these officers have to go deep undercover, which means that to assume new identities and have deep backgrounds that will survive any kind of scrutiny if they're to survive. So they need to live and breathe their own. And part of Don's story is that he did this in the past. And the way to survive is you become so subsumed in this alter ego that you create that you lose yourself. And in fact, that's what we find happens to Don, had happened to him in the past, and he sort of paid the price for that. We know he has a daughter we never see and a marriage that didn't work out, but he sort of paid the price for that. And also that I think Don's character represents that sort of that older male kind of predisposition for not really talking about how you feel. He's sincere and straightforward and honest about things, but not someone who would readily open up or probably seek any kind of therapy. You know, PTSD and all that stuff is those terms weren't really used 30 years ago ago. They're currently very in vogue, you know, but not. Not then. So he sort of represents that kind of someone struggling partly with his. With his identity.

50:08

So. So Donna's head of operations says to all these new people that they have to commit to the Legend, this other character, and they have to lean into it under stress. And this is a very kind of non actually question, but I wonder if that's something that's. That's sort of familiar, that when you are playing another part, particularly if you're playing a part of someone who has actually existed in the past, that you have to lean into it to make it believable.

51:33

Yeah, I've played. I think I count. I played 11. I think I've played 11. Real people who were real in my career. And some. Some dead, some living or some who were alive when I played them. And some are easier than others. But you have to. You have to sort of. I mean, all actors have different approaches. I'm not really what you call a method actor. I don't have to have my lunch as the character when I'm on set, you know, I can step out of it, thank God. I mean, I played Jimmy Savile, so I wasn't gonna wander around at lunchtime pretending to be Jimmy Savile. It wouldn't have been appropriate. So fortunately, that wasn't my method. But to some extent, really, when I play a character, it's. You sort of jump in with both feet, you know, like you sort of jumping off a cliff into the sea or something. You just hold your nose, you just go for it and don't. Sometimes it helps to not overthink it, but just to sort of move forward. There's an old adage in my business, which is, ready, fire, aim. And that's what I tend to do when I'm playing any kind of character, is sort of run at it and figure it out, hope, hopefully, before I get there.

52:02

Most recently seen as Mick McCarthy in Saipan, which Mark hasn't seen Legend, but Mark has seen saipan, the Mick McCarthy character. How was that quite an easy fit for you?

53:18

Yeah, I mean, I spoke to Mick. He's not too pleased with the film. I don't think he spared me any ignominy. But I did talk to him, and I had to sort of do my interpretation of what I thought he is or he was. It wasn't a great stretch. He's part. Mick McCarthy's part of the Irish diaspora. He's a northerner. I mean, I ticked both those boxes, so it didn't feel like a huge stretch. I felt like from all the sort of footage, everything that garnered, that his character was very distinct from Roy Keane. And this argument, this face off between these two characters, you know, was something I could see went beyond football.

53:29

The thing that's fascinating about Saipan is Steve, as you know, what I know about football wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp. And I knew nothing at all about the Saipan incident as it is referred to. I've been told by people, you know, if you're in Ireland, it was an absolute national event.

54:19

Yeah.

54:35

What I did know was that. That Glenn Laban and Lisa Barastas are two of my favorite filmmakers. I love their movies. I love Good Vibrations. I love Ordinary Love. And I think that they, that what that film did for somebody who did not know any. I don't think I'd heard of any of the people in it. I knew nothing about the incident. It works as a drama. So it's not just the thing about playing a real life character, it's making sure that the drama works even if you don't know the story.

54:36

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I mean I wasn't, I didn't know a huge amount about football. I'm from a big family and all my sibling brothers are all, all mad football heads, as is my mother, but I'm not really. So it had to work for me that way. I think that, you know, Lisa, who does most of the talking on set in that sort of husband and wife duo is very intuitive and I felt very comfortable with her. I mean, I worked with both of them again in a heartbeat. They made life very. They fit. Make things feel just really natural and workmanlike and. Yeah, I love them. It was, you know, I mean I sort of. I remember when they were making Good Vibrations, I saw that script and I think I was supposed to do something in it, but I wasn't available. But I loved that movie as well. And so it was quite an easy choice for me to, to, to join that, that this of Mick and Roy Saipan project because essentially, because if it had just been about football, I'm not sure I would have been interested. But because it was about national identity, what your attitudes should be, whether you're inclusive, whether you're with your colleagues, whether you're collegiate or you're a one man band, how you view your life. There's no right or wrong. Mick McCarthy isn't right or wrong and neither is Roy Keane. So it's. I always think a good film is a kind of film where when you're leaving the cinema, if you're with someone else, you're. You're still discussing it and deciding what point of view you think was the right one. And that's, that's always, that's always a result. People are asking questions.

55:01

I'm just delighted to hear that you really enjoyed working with Lisa and Glenn. Because I think they are two of the best filmmakers working at the moment and I think they, their names should be more widely known because I think they're really terrific.

56:43

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I said they remind me a little bit of. So they have a sort of a lightness of touch about stuff that's really. Remind me a bit of Bill Forsyth

56:52

Again, one of my favorite filmmakers.

57:03

Yeah. That they have that sort of, it's sort of deep waters. Lightly skipped over.

57:04

Great phrase, Great phrase.

57:12

I like that.

57:14

Like that.

57:15

So Saipan is out and Legends is on Netflix and is available from May 7th. Steve, always a pleasure. Thank you much, very much indeed.

57:15

Cheers. Enjoyed it.

57:22

Steve Coogan obviously.

57:23

Steve Coogan obviously.

57:25

Couldn't be anyone else talking about this new show, Legends. Now. We're gonna, you'll do a proper review next week.

57:26

Yes. So since we recorded that interview, because that was, that interview was recorded a couple of weeks ago, I have now seen Legends. We can't review it yet because it's under embargo until, until next week. But I don't think it's going to be because you, you kind of implied this in the thing that you enjoyed, you enjoyed it very much and you told me that before. I, I, I, I, I, I watched it and, and I, I have lots to say about it. But the, the headline is I enjoyed it very much as well.

57:33

Yeah. Yes. And I think I, when I started. So we're talking like literally the first two. This isn't the review. I don't think I'm breaking an embargo.

58:01

No. No.

58:10

Anyway, if it's positive vibes, what are they going to be testing?

58:10

Get over it.

58:13

The first two or three minutes. I thought, oh, have I seen, I've, we've seen this before. And then because as you heard in, in the, because these, these aren't cops Undercover, it just felt even more scary the fact that these were literally office workers.

58:14

Yes. Volunteered. Precisely.

58:28

Volunteered to do something which was completely out of their comfort zone.

58:30

Yeah.

58:35

But if you're going to do that, be Tom Burke.

58:35

Yeah, exactly. It is a drama about people out of their depth. And, and, and as you say that, that, that kind of cranks up the tension because you're not expecting any of them to deal with it. It particularly well because they're not prepared.

58:38

Yes. So that will be reviewed on next week, next week's program. The show is called Legends. Much to come on that and when you've seen it. Correspondencecovernova.com what is out that you can review?

58:52

Mark Hokum, as you kind of alluded to before when you were voguing after The Devil West Prada 2 review. So this is a pretty effective haunted house horror from Irish director and writer Damien McCarthy, who made Caveat an oddity. There is more than a touch of ste. Stephen King about this and I, I didn't know this when I saw it, but this is billed as from the producer of Weapons. And of course Weapons was very, very Stephen King. So this was shot in West Cork, I think shot last year. Played to enthusiastic reception at south by Southwest in March of this year. Stars Adam Scott. Adam Scott, who you will know as Ben from Parks and Recreation or from Mark from Severin, which I think is actually a more important connection. He's, um, Bowman, who is in the process. He's a writer who is in the process of finishing a series of books that he's written. And the series looks set to finish on a very dark, open endedly downbeat note that seems to represent the writer's own state of mind. He has traveled to Ireland to the hotel where his parents came when they were first married. He has brought their ashes with him. Him. He's also brought a very bad attitude. He's rude, he's dismissive to everyone. And the hotel kind of, you know, an old hotel, rural hotel, seems to mirror his. His despondency and his anger. And soon he learns that the hotel is said to be haunted. And indeed the honeymoon suite is gated off, completely gated off. No one is allowed to go in there, there ever. And then things start to get properly weird. Here is a. Here's a clip from the trailer. Long, long ago, deep in the woods, there lived is your kids. No, don't talk to strangers.

59:04

There are worse things than strangers out there, Yank.

1:00:59

It's just been a crack. Can I get a room as far away from the crack? Back as possible.

1:01:02

First time in Ireland?

1:01:08

Yeah, My folks came here for their honeymoon. Always wanted to come back. Why didn't they? Well, once you've seen the honeymoon suite, you'll know exactly why they didn't come back. So you hear from the, from the trailer. It kind of gives you a good sense of both the, the sort of wry, dark humor and the creepy nature of the story. So I said it's a bit Stephen King. There is a bit of misery in the idea of the author finishing a book in the way that he wants, but that not necessarily other people will want. There's Fiona, who works behind the bar in the hotel, asks him to tell her how the book is gonna end. And he does. And she says, well, I won't be reading that. I mean, why would I read a book that ends like that? There is a lot of the shining in the idea of the hotel that mirrors the internal turmoil of one of its visitors. You know, this obviously also relates to the haunting of Hill House, which as you know, is kind of Stephen King always refers to as the urtext of all haunted house stories. And there's also a touch of deliverance in that thing about the, you know, the author, the educated elite who goes out to this rural backwater where everything is folklore and butchery. And there's a fair degree of dark humor about the setup. I mean, the obnoxiousness of the author is funny. There's something also a bit sort of Royston Vasey about some of the characters. I mean, at times I was thinking about this, thinking, how would you describe this? And it's like. Well, it's like Barton Fink meets Father Ted via Stephen King. You know, that's. You know, I think that's actually quite a good comparison. Most importantly, however, the film has a really good sense of atmosphere and it's got a terrific use of its central location. It's got a very firm grip on the mechanics of making jump scares that aren't simply quiet, quiet, bang. There is a sort of genuine sense of trauma and loss and folkloric going on in the background, but there's also enough kind of foreground woodsy weirdness and stuff about magic mushrooms to give you the creeps, but also to do so in, as I said, a kind of darkly satirical way. When I saw it, I saw it at, well, the screening room that I still refer to as Mr. Young's Technically Soho screening rooms, which you've been to as well. It's one of my favorite screening rooms in London. And I was sitting in the front row and a critic friend of mine was sitting behind me. And at one point they jumped so much that they kicked the back of my chair really hard. So it was like watching the film in 4D, you know, it was like, whoa. And it was. And honestly, on the strength of this, I think Damian McCarthy is really shaping up as a talent to watch. And so I thought was it. It got the atmosphere right, it got the balance of the horror and the humor right. And there is a really well established creepy atmosphere. It's not world changing by any means, but it is a good, well made, creepy, darkly funny horror movie.

1:01:10

And just because I like this kind of stuff, Hokum, yes, dates from 1917 and is a combination of hocus pocus and bunker income.

1:04:21

Oh, wow. And yes, hocus pocus. Now remind me because. Yeah, fine, tell me where hocus pocus comes from.

1:04:30

It's my favorite. I think it was one of the reasons I got into all the etymology stuff. Hocus pocus is a Mickey take of the Mass, the Catholic Mass. And it's that it was. So the words from the mass, hocus corpus. Here is the body. That's right. And it was magicians who were. Were being sarcastic and taking the mickey out of the mass by. So hocus corpus became hocus pocus.

1:04:40

Hocus pocus.

1:05:03

It's just amazing. I just think it's. It's terrific.

1:05:04

Yeah, fantastic.

1:05:09

And also because you said the urtext, I know that there'll be.

1:05:10

Oh, yes, sorry, that's not.

1:05:14

That's not e. Mark wasn't hesitating. Wasn't the text. You are. Which is German for out of and original. So that's what that is. But you can't take the PhD out of Mark. Once a PhD student, always a PhD student. Anyway, so hokum. That sounds good. Then, you know, that's.

1:05:16

Yeah, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.

1:05:38

Okay, so let's step with gay abandon into the. The Laughter Lift now, which each week recreates the lift scene from the outtakes of Return of the Pink Panther.

1:05:40

Can I.

1:05:50

Can I y K Y K as the kids say.

1:05:51

Mark said what I Y k Y

1:05:53

k if you know, you know. Oh, yeah. Very good. So with a live intro from Mark. Okay, now it's time for the Laughter Lift. Hey, Mark.

1:05:58

Hey, Simon.

1:06:13

I'll never forget what dear old granddad Mayo said to me just before he croaked. Okay, come closer, young Simon, he whispered. Would you like to hear my frog impression? Hey, Mark, some bad news. The good lady ceramicist heron doors threatened to leave me again this week. She said I was, too.

1:06:15

That's a regular occurrence, isn't it? It is.

1:06:35

It is. In the laughter, she said I was too arrogant. Me, arrogant? I said, okay, you good lady ceramic heron doors. Don't let the door hit you on the way back in.

1:06:37

Oh, two. Okay.

1:06:50

And this one from the archives.

1:06:52

All right.

1:06:54

I mean, I think I learned this at university. Hey, Mark, did you know Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities was first serialized in two very specific local newspapers, one in Oxfordshire, the other in the West Midlands? Yes, you're right in. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Oh, okay. No laughs.

1:06:55

But I'm just doing the bell ringing.

1:07:17

It saves you laughing. It does so. So much easier. Very good. I enjoyed the Laughter Lift last week when it was a joke sent in by the.

1:07:19

Yes, they were good, weren't they?

1:07:28

No disrespect to Paul Simon, but anyway, there you go. What?

1:07:30

What?

1:07:34

Okay, what's still to come? I tell you, Surviving Earth. In just a moment,

1:07:34

Susan Galbraith was a housewife in Mayfield, Kentucky. But after a murder in town, Susan took it upon herself to find witnesses who could point to a killer.

1:07:43

She thought she was going to be a hero.

1:07:53

But that's not what happened.

1:07:55

The lies. A lot of lies.

1:07:57

What were Susan's real motives?

1:07:58

She was killer.

1:08:00

Why then did the cops take her seriously?

1:08:03

It was known that she was getting funds from them.

1:08:06

Susan's son is wrestling with his mother's legacy to this day.

1:08:09

I mean, my mom was. I used the word diabolical and perhaps

1:08:12

the biggest question of all is did she help convict an innocent man?

1:08:16

I do feel like that they got the wrong people.

1:08:21

From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard. This is my Mother's Lies, available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today, subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free.

1:08:25

Rolling, rolling, rolling Keep them, Keep them doggies rolling.

1:08:50

Is it doggies? Keep them rolling, Rolling, rolling. Does it Keep them doggies.

1:08:56

Is it doggies? What is it?

1:09:02

No, what is. Hang on, I have to look it up now. Okay, you can't. It's impossible also to play Rawhide without playing it now behind a fence because of the Blues Brothers Rawhide lyrics. Here we go. Rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling. Yes. Keep them doggies. It is.

1:09:04

It is.

1:09:21

Keep them doggies rolling. Yeah.

1:09:22

That doesn't make sense.

1:09:25

Yeah, it is. Through rain and weather Hell bent for leather Wishing my gal was by my side all the things I'm missing. Good vitis, good vittles, love and kissing Are waiting at the end of my. That's right now. Well, there we go. Yeah.

1:09:26

Chris Duncan, Sutton, Courtney not to Literature Dear Ford and Arthur, long term listener, second term email. I write regarding your discussion on April 23rd where Simon offered a succinct one word descriptor of certain breeds of philosopher. I could not. Who knew that getting tangled with philosophy was going to I blame, obviously, French cinema in general. I could not help, says Chris. But think of the great Douglas Adams, specifically the scene in Hitchhiker's Ghost Guide. I grew up on tapes of the original radio series.

1:09:42

Excellent.

1:10:16

Where deep thought is being programmed to search for the answer to the ultimate question.

1:10:16

Yes.

1:10:20

The programmers are interrupted by a delegation from the Amalgamation union of philosophers, sages, luminaries and other professional thinking persons who demand both that the machine be switched off and that there be a quote rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

1:10:21

That's right. That's right.

1:10:37

We'll go on strike we'll go on strike, says the first philosopher. That's right, his colleague ads. You'll have a national philosopher's strike on your hands. At which point, deep thought interjects to ask, who will that inconvenience like the show, Steve? Up with the usual, down with the other stuff. I tell you that I think the Sartre people are going to take offense at that now.

1:10:38

They are. It reminds me, however, of something very funny that Peter Bradshaw, a critic of the Guardian, said that we were at a screening once and there was some, there was some shenanigans or you know, flim flam going on that had made the day particularly difficult. And I said, you know, more in jest than anything else, I said, oh for heaven's sake, we should just all go on strike. And Pete Bradshaw immediately said, yes, just imagine the public outrage. All those unreviewed films piling up in the streets.

1:10:59

You could stand behind a bin burning things, warming your hands in the middle of summer.

1:11:31

Yeah,

1:11:37

everyone would come out on strike in sympathy with you, Mark.

1:11:39

Would they? Would they?

1:11:41

No one out.

1:11:43

All out.

1:11:44

Craig Woolworth says. Dear Benson and Hedges, long time listener, second time correspondent. A note of reassurance for Simon following his admission of paranoia on last week's show regarding his new book. Some 15 years ago and desperate to get my first publishing credit as a writer, I agreed to sell my manuscript to an indie based publisher who issued their titles only on ebook. When it came to the release date, I couldn't have been more excited. I had arrived and was now a fully fledged author. However, following its its launch, those that ordered the book started to reach out to me to say that they were. I think you mean contact to say that there was a problem. The publisher had mistakenly uploaded the manuscript version with editorial comments still attached matched.

1:11:45

Oh my goodness.

1:12:27

This meant that anyone who bought a copy also got the added bonus material of reading all my grammatical errors and suggestions on how to improve the narrative.

1:12:28

Wow.

1:12:36

This was just one. Imagine that. Imagine your last book going up with your notes and good lord, this was just one literary incident of many that has left me battered and bruised over the years. So from one not so successful writer to one that remains respected and adored by many. You're not alone in your worries and paranoia. The manuscript will never be truly finished. There will always be something that could be improved. As Ray Bradbury once said, you fail only if you stop writing down with Nazis and unnecessary adverbs. Thank you Craig for that reassurance. But it's right. Was it Sam Mendes was It, the Sam Mendes James Bond film where we asked him, it was one of our live shows and because I'm sure we had an audience, I'm sure it's in the West End. And he said he was very bad at stepping away from his work, that there was always something to improve, that he'd literally stopped like three weeks before or something.

1:12:37

Yeah, there was a joke about how do you know when the movie is finished? And it's when they have literally wrenched the reels out of my fingers. I remember when I wrote the BFI exorcist book in 1998 or 97, I think it was, that I got back the, the, the, the, the annotated manuscript and at one point the person who was editing it, I had written something like, you know, this is the point at which the film tips over into blah, blah, something. And they had literally underlined it and written, oh, f off.

1:13:29

Fortunately, my editor is not that, not that crude. But I have in between these, these conversations I have had had. I, I, in this new thing that I've done, I've. I'd invented a word and I was sure that the editor was going to put a line through it and say, you have got to be kidding or, you know, with the same kind of feeling as you've just did. But it's gone through, it's gone through on the nod. So I, I think, what's the word? I'm not going to tell you because. Okay, well, I will tell you, but you know, we'll have to not, not with this microphone.

1:14:06

Oh, I see. Okay, fine. But inventing words is a thing. I mean, F. Scott Fitzgerald invented the word orgasm and people correct it, you know, because it's in the final paragraph of the Great Gatsby and he says, the orgastic future, which year by year recedes before us. And there are versions of the Great Gatsby that correct it to orgiastic, but it isn't. The word in his manuscript is the orgastic, and it's an invented word.

1:14:39

Okay, I'm not sure mine will be very useful, but anyway, we'll, you know, we shall find out. Anyway, let's talk about something that's out. I think you've already said it. You said at the top of the show that you liked it.

1:15:07

Yes. Surviving Earth. So this is in cinemas now. This came out last week, but we had such a packed show last week, we weren't able to review it. So this is the debut feature from writer director Thea Gaetz, who I first met at a film Festival last year in Croatia. Now, I think I'm right in saying that her father is Serbian. Her mother was from Liverpool. She grew up, up down south. We met on the island of Loped when she had made the film and she was looking for distribution and is now out. And anyway, when we met, she had a tattoo on her arm of a harmonica. And I play harmonica, as you know. And I started talking to her about why, why she has a harmonica tattoo. And she said, well, it's to do with my dad and it's to do with this film that I had. I made about her dad. So her dad was a musician who played harmonica and who dealt with some very dark addiction issues in his life. And she had made this film, Surviving Earth, about him, about his struggles, about his music and about his relationships with his family. Here is a. Here's a clip from the trailer.

1:15:17

Always stick to these three things in life. Something to do, someone to love, and something to look forward to. Hey, Mikey, this is Maria, my daughter. I don't think you've met.

1:16:23

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

1:16:39

I've got something for you.

1:16:44

I can't play.

1:16:46

Oh, Maria, how many times have I told you, if you can breathe, you can.

1:16:47

You can play the harmonica, which of course we all know is absolutely true. If you can breathe, you can play the harmonica. So. So Slavgo Sobin is.

1:16:50

You laugh particularly well.

1:16:59

Thank you, Simon. That is very kind of you to say so. But as we know, the great thing about harmonica is you can't play a wrong note unless you've got a chromatic harmonica, in which case you can play every wrong note. So playing the harmonica is easy, playing the chromatic is rather more difficult. And there's very good harmonica playing in this film, incidentally. So Vlad is recovering addict who arrived in the 90s, is now living in Bristol. He has a daughter played by Olive Gray, who lives in London, has a very conflicted relationship with him due to his past addiction and abandonment issues. And he plays in a Balkan band doing support slots where people talk all over their sets and they want their own gig. And his band, they dream up a night called the Balkan Express. But putting on a gig requires money, and it also requires Vlad not to fall back into his old habits and addictions. So, as I said, this is the feature debut from Theogaic, and I think it's a really impressive piece of work. I mean, it's one of those films. We've talked about this before that proves that universality comes from getting the specific details right. So if you get the minutiae right, the bigger picture falls into place. And I think there are many of us who will not have lived experiences that are anything like. Like what's going on in the film, which. Which is very, very closely autobiographical. I interviewed the director. Director on stage at the BFI earlier this week and saying, how close is it to reality? Said, no, it's very, very close. And because those experiences are very specific, you might think, well, you know, how. How are we going to get into this? But because the details of that are done so well and because it feels authentic, it rings true. And I also think everyone can understand themes of both loving and being estranged from a parent and seeing your parents struggle with stuff and feeling alienated from. But also intimately connected to that. The other thing, of course, is that music is a driving force in the film. The music is the central character's spirit. It's vibrant, it's exciting, it's unruly, it's a little bit dangerous. And I think that when. When the film does the musical sequences, they're done with such a confidence. They're done with the confidence of somebody who has found a way into the story that can then speak to other people. And this is. There is a harmonica, central harmonica in the drama, which is passed from father to daughter and has come down, you know, generationally, and it's kind of. It's like. It becomes like a talisman. And there is. There's a moment in the film when the harmonica gets stepped on. And I literally gasped out loud when it happened.

1:17:00

I was like, you know, like the otter getting it.

1:19:47

Ring of Bright Water. Same thing that film has really done for you, hasn't it? You're never, ever going to get away from that.

1:19:52

That's what it is when the harmonica gets it.

1:19:59

I think it's one of those things that when somebody manages to pull something like that off, to make you genuinely gasp at something as apparently ordinary as a small musical instrument getting through stood upon, what that tells you is that the film's worked, that it has drawn you enough into the story and you believe enough in the. The bits and the mechanics of the story. You're invested enough in them to be shocked by something as apparently unsensationalist as somebody stepping upon a harmonica. The other thing I would say is if I still had the Scala show, which of course I don't, because Scarlett doesn't exist anymore, if I did, I'd be playing the tunes from this film every week because I. I love that kind of music. So I. Anyway, as I said, it came out on Friday, it's in cinemas now, but I think it's a. A really terrific piece of work and it's got great reviews and, and it's really good to see. It's really, really good to see, you know, yet another filmmaker making their mark and once again demonstrating that, you know, inventive, adventurous cinema is alive in character, kicking.

1:20:02

When you've seen it, let us know what you think. Correspondencecoveredamo.com that is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom. The redactor was Simon Poole, who's back from his very, very long holidays. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so. Wherever you get your podcasts, come and join us on Patreon. Mark, what is your film of the week?

1:21:07

Well, no surprise. I think. Surviving Earth. Absolutely. Go see it. It's a. It's a terrific movie that needs your support and I was really excited by it.

1:21:27

There will be another take which has landed adjacent to this one. I am going to bestow a year's Ultra membership to our Correspondence of the week. I think Chris Dun, our Douglas Adams philosopher.

1:21:37

Yeah, that was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

1:21:52

Chris will be in touch. Thank you very much, Steve, for listening. We'll talk to you soon.

1:21:55