Knicks beat Celtics in Tatum’s return to MSG, Title Pie, Brou’s Ballot, Can LeBron carry the Lakers?

Live from New York, it's a show that's reminding you. They got Yannis jerseys in the souvenir store. Okay? Say, do you walk up and say, hey, do you have a size 58? I don't know how large they make them. Suit up and start warming up. That's how you play the final home game. You can warm up and still not play. Like you can warm up and dock me. You want Yannis's final moments in Milwaukee to be with technical fouls and ineligible players. Let's get in the mud. It would be, that's what it would be. It would be ugly. KW wants it. Well now we're just sitting here quietly. It's just over. It's over. Well, I want to play in the NBA with my brother's one final time. It's not happening. Well, it should. That's fine, but it's not. Everyone has accepted this. There was a time when Yannis wanted to warm up and the guy's like, actually, we got to do something with the ladder. Oh yeah? Ladder's gone. I'm still here. Today, LeBron wins without Luca. Is there a chance he can keep the Lake Show a float in the playoffs when one round made? We're going to turn Wilde's around. So it was preseason LeBron opinions. No. That's what's going to happen in a good way, in a positive way. Meanwhile, a commander's defensive player says that the league has figured out Lamar Jackson. Are we buying this? And what does Bruce take on this one? And finally, wow, double whammy. Special edition of Bruce Ballot and title pie with a real twist of title pie that we were not expecting and might ruin the show. We have no pie? No, we definitely have a pie. But somebody just went rogue. Is it you? No, it's not me. I'm behaving. I'm doing my own thing. I don't go rogue. I'm not trying to take over other people's segments, over the top with their own graphics. I'm just doing my thing, his intro and the stuff. Chris Prisard, Nick Wright, Kevin Wilde. We're starting in the garden. Tatum got a nice round of applause in his return to the team. That was good that that happened. For the first time. I heard you brew it specifically. I heard you brew it. JT! JT! JT! JT! JT! 24 points with 2 for 10 from 3. Bailor Scheinerman and Josh Hart ended up hitting the huge shots in the game. Here's Tatum on his return to Madison Square Garden. It was a big moment. Big hurdle for me. And I was nervous and anxious to come back here. Obviously, I wanted to win and play great, but more importantly, I just kind of wanted to walk off the court. You know, I'm on to feet. Did you feel nervous once you stepped on the floor or once the game started? Yeah. I was, especially like to start the game. He's so unique. Well, look, he's already got a championship. Or I would say he might be too honest. I mean, you know, it's very unique to see this level of vulnerability. 24 points, 13 rebounds. He's been a rebounding machine in 40 minutes, which is a season high. Did you like what you saw in Tatum's return? I liked that he played 40 minutes. I mean, that's impressive. Obviously, he didn't get hurt, thankfully. But he looked all right. I don't think he played that well. The numbers, I mean, 24, 13, and eight, you would certainly take that. But he's still understandably not quite where he was. We talked yesterday, is he 70, 75%? Because he wasn't creating space as much as he is when he's fully healthy. And that contributed to some of his shooting. He was just off, too. He missed a couple open shots yesterday, but you saw the 31% shooting. But overall, it was great to see him back. Now, down the stretch, he struggled over the last eight minutes. He was over two with three turnovers. So like he said, they were outscored 25 to 14 by the Knicks. And that really turned the game. They had had the lead, Boston, but with Tatum struggling a little bit, they didn't pull it out. But look, the bottom line, if you're a Celtics fan, is you're happy. He's gotten through this. He didn't play badly. He just wasn't quite as up to par as he usually is. But he's healthy, and he's passed these demons of mass and square guard. Yeah, and I think if you're a Celtic fan, you also like the fact that this was a nipping tuck game without Jalen Brown. You know what I mean? And I do think the benefit for Boston sitting Jalen Brown was it made it so if the Knicks lose, that's pretty ominous for them heading into a potential playoff series. And if the Knicks win, they can't really. You know, they can feel, again, we're talking about the Knicks in a minute, and the Knicks fans should be happy, but it doesn't feel as sturdy as if Jalen had been there. But as far as Jason goes, I've liked every single thing about his return. And I am pretty stunned by, like you said, yesterday was not a great game. He didn't shoot very efficiently. He had a half dozen turnovers. But he came back March 6th. Today is April 10th, and he's playing 40 minutes. I mean, that would have been unfathomable. When he came back, the Celtics announced he's on, he's not going to play every, he's not going to play any back to back switchies, he's not going to play more than three games any given week, and he's capped at 30 minutes a game the rest of the season. I think we all would have been like, sounds about right. Sounds reasonable. Instead, he's been playing 35 minutes regularly, and since he came back, here's the list of guys averaging 20, 10, and 5. That's crazy. That's not even a while. Sometimes we cherry pick the stats a little bit. This is nice and clean. So that's why I did it, because he's actually averaging like 22 and a little more. But I wanted it to be 21, 7, and 3 steals. And so listen, the rebounding numbers are what calls the herd quite a bit, because there aren't a lot of guys who get double digit rebounds in past, but that's remarkable. And if we set KW to your point, like the threshold's even lower, the only other guy that pops up is Palo, another kind of guy, a big guy that can do a little bit everything. And so I do feel like one of the benefits of his transparency and honesty is, I do think we can take him at his word. Like, and so I do think this was an important and needed hurdle for him to get over and one that if this hadn't been on the schedule, would have been a tougher spot for him when he goes to New York in the playoffs, assuming he goes in the playoffs. So all of that, if you're a Celtics fan, I think, again, you want to win the game. But I think you're pretty thrilled with how this is going entirely. Yeah, look, he doesn't look like he's ready to be the number one guy on a championship team, like he's proven he is. But the good news for Celtics fans is he doesn't have to be. He's the number two guy this year, and he's clearly able to do that. Was there something, you went to the game? Was there something specific that you saw when I watched him? Like, looks the same. Looks like the same payable we had. Well, he just wasn't able to create as much space. So a lot of his shots were contested. And I will say this, he had a fall in the second half. Yes. That was. I was terrified. I don't remember because I was there when he got hurt, but I was really up in the Raptors. No same spot. I wasn't sure if it was the same side of the court. Not good. But yeah, it was this. And he kind of just fell or got tripped or something. And I was like, and he got up great, and everything was good. At that moment. And probably even to him, he thought about that. When you say he's not able to create as much space. I'm not saying he's not. He did last night. No, but do you think there's an element of, so let me, I'll mix metaphors a bit. There was about a few weeks ago, there was a video, like a LeBron compilation video of. And the caption was, he's been cooking guys with the simplest dribble moves for 20 years. And the response was, yeah, because guys are so worried about him dri-like about basically his power and speed that they have to guard him differently. So he doesn't need the ball handling. The flip side of that is, is one of the reasons he's not creating spaces because he's not quite as explosive as he was. Guys are more comfortable. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't have the explosion. And so guys are less worried. When you have the explosion, you almost have to play off the guy a little bit because he can get right past you if he doesn't. I think that's it. And I don't know how much, I don't think that'll come all the way back, but I think it probably, the explosion gets better and better, you know what I mean? Over the course of the next few weeks. Just look at the way he's improved over this past month. Celtics host the Pelicans tonight. Tatum won't play that game. Zoom out. Nick's win their fourth straight game, trying to make a mad dash to grab the two seed from Boston. It'll be tough. Mike Brown got his 52nd win last night. He jumps Pat Riley for most wins ever in the first season as the Knicks head coach. What are the chances this Knicks squad gets over the hump? Well, look, I like Mike Brown a lot. I have known him since he was coaching the Cavs the first time there and LeBron's first snipped there. Little context to that record. The last two years, the Knicks won 50 plus games. So they won 52 years ago, 51 last year. They better have won 52. Or whatever they're going to finish up at. Pat Riley's 51 wins. He took them from 39 wins to 51 years. And Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Woodson. Jeff Van Gundy in his first year with the Knicks 57 wins. Mike Woodson 54. They have both coached a little bit in the previous season. They took over like with about 23. That's interesting. I didn't realize that. They had been interim coached. So just a little context. I like that. But that said, look, there feels like there's been this feeling around the Knicks this year of, man, they're not as good as we thought they were. They were supposed to be better. They got more wins than last year, obviously. Last year, they were fifth in offensive rating, 14th in defensive rating. This year, they're third and eighth. So they've improved on both sides of the ball. Obviously, Brown is going deeper in the bench, which has served them well in the playoffs. I had this graphic. We were going to make a mistake. They're better. They are slightly better offense, slightly better defense. They outscored people more. They're a better fourth quarter team. The fourth quarter number, I know it sees them long, but that seems monstrous. Yeah, the current one. Last year, they were outscored in the fourth quarter. And Brunson was great in the last one. Kids got to be playing 40 minutes. Legit. And we think they'll be fresher. Yeah, because of that point. And I'm going to say this. Look, I said yesterday, I think the is Boston, Detroit, New York, Cleveland, and the East, as far as the best teams. I think the Knicks really, like, if I'm them, I'd rather play Boston in the second round than Detroit. I think they match up better with Boston. I think they could be Boston again. I don't know if I'll pick them, because, you know, we'll make our picks when it's time. But I really think they match up really well with Boston. Several reasons. Obviously, they've had great success against them lately. Last year, beat them 4-2. We're about to go up 3-1 when Tatum got hurt. So that can't be an excuse. This year, we get it 3-1 against Boston, but none of those games have Brown and Tatum. But even when Brown and Tatum play, they are built to defend them better than just about anybody, because they got Ogeana Nobby, Mikhail Bridges, and you could throw in Josh Hart. Like, they have the wing defenders who can make it tough on them. So in that series last year, they held both Tatum and Brown to a 40% shooting. So they can make it tough on you. And then this year, they become one of the best clutch teams in the league. There are six, I believe, in clutch play. And then they've got two guys in Jalen and Carl Anthony Towns who can get double teams late in the game. And you can get out like last night. They kicked it out to Josh Hart, and he was hitting the 3. So they will be able to get open 3s late because of their creators. And if they knock down the 3s, they match up better, I think, with Boston than the 3s. Well, they were built to beat Boston. One of the reasons, last year, I was one of the only people, I think, who, going into the series, picked the Knicks. And it was, in part, because I just think it's hard to defend a title and all that. But it was also like, man, it felt very similar. It reminded me a lot of the round to the previous year defending champ against Minnesota, where a Minnesota team that wasn't championship caliber but had been built to beat Denver. And so, and then they matched up, and they did. And that's what happened. So I agree with that to a degree and understand it. I also don't want, like last night, we're talking about Jaylen Brown missing the other things. This, Josh Hart, who's not a good shooter, made a month. Was on fire. And that sometimes the game plan is make Josh Hart, or make player X beat us. I mean, they had a boost of big joining. Right. And that player X is like, OK, I'll beat you. And that's what happens. I still think Boston is decidedly more championship caliber. And I would pick Boston in a series. With that said, I did today have a similar feeling of you, which is, man, it feels like we've all collectively been a little down on the Knicks, even though they're better than last year. Those numbers that we showed, they're going to have a better record. It's not like last year they were the one or the two seed. They weren't. Their seeding was the same. And I think that was because we expected, given the injuries to Boston and what happened with Indiana, that the Knicks would do what Detroit did. It started the year as the number one seed and basically hold it. They didn't. But they haven't been disappointing this year by any means. And it does feel like, and I've probably been a party to it, the commentary surrounding them has been as if they're 46-win team. Hawks asked. Yeah, honestly. Drew, can I ask you a question of power rank? The following players, with the ball in their hand, you need a bucket. They are bringing it up the court. Jalen Brown, Jalen Brunson, and Jason Tatum. Jalen Brunson? Yeah, me too. He's number one. I felt like we got a peek at playoff Jalen Brunson, either drawing a foul or the cool almost marvering as fast. He'll get a little mid-range shot easy. I just really talked to him. And yeah, that pass to Hart under the basket was sensational. So there's not many guys in the league you would put above him of that specific scenario. Like, no, that's when he's best at. He's one of the best clutch guys in the league. He's one of the best clutch guys. And he's one of the better, small scores of his generation. There's not many guys his size who can more reliably get you a bucket. Yeah, if not, Alvarado would get more burn. Raptors and Hornets to close out the year for New York. They're 4-0 against Toronto already this year, and that could be a first-round matchup. Head out to the West Coast. Lakers get a dub over the dubs. First win without Luca LeBron had 26. Here he was post-game. Take a listen. Everything. Everything. So nothing changes for me. It's just back to the old ways. I got to give them my leadership, both on the floor and off the floor. I got to lead in all passes on the court. I got to both ends. It's with the drive required. So, you know, I look forward to it and I see what we can get done. All right, news today. JJ says he's hopeful that Marcus Smart and Jackson Hayes will play against the Suns. Well, that's something. Those are the two guys they need back. You can't even meet LeBron by himself. Yeah. Can this version of LeBron win a playoff series? Well, look, he's playing with an extra pep in his step. It looks to me like he's playing outstanding basketball. And I tell you what, obviously, he moves into the Luca role of handling the ball more and distributing and running the offense and stuff. He still he might do that better than Luca. I mean, obviously, LeBron. Orcustrate the office. And he doesn't dominate dribble as much as Luca. So, you know, he moves it a little faster in my view. The thing is, Luca can't go do what LeBron did a month ago and say, all right, I'm going to be off the ball. Luca just has to have the ball in his hand. And LeBron can't score the way Luca can at this point. At this point. And he's not the shooter, Luca, you know, all that stuff. But look, if they play Minnesota, which I don't think is going to happen, but if they play Minnesota and Anthony Edwards, he's questionable tonight. Yeah. He's starting to look like he's not going to be himself. If he's not himself and they face Minnesota, I'm Minnesota has all the athleticism and things like that. As far as advantages, I would probably pick Minnesota if Aunt plays, but you know, maybe 80%. But I certainly give the Lakers a shot. More likely they're going to face Houston. I will pick Houston. I think Houston just the talent discrepancy. I mean, we talked about Durant, Shingoon. I'm in Thompson, Jabari, like they have such a talent advantage and they've got a very good coach in Udoka. I would pick them shame on them and Kevin Durant if they were to lose to the Lakers without Luca and Reeves disaster. But I would give the Lakers is a lot, but a 10 to 15% chance. Well, that's something in winning that. And so that's almost exactly where I'm at, bro. I think that I, you know, a lot of our discussions have been if Luca comes back, you know, could Luca immediately then, you know, win a series. This conversation is if they say Luca is out for round one, do the Lakers have a chance? And my answer to a chance is yeah, because, and I'm focused on Houston, right? Because it's the most likely matchup. Minnesota's locked into the six, but that is done now. So the Lakers would have to get to the three. And I don't think it's, they're not going to end up playing Denver in round one, even though in theory the three, four, five could all change, but the Denver is the least likely round one opponent. And I, LeBron, when he is the unquestioned best player on his team the last two years. So again, last year he's younger. And so the, I'm not saying, but he's still, he was 40 and in year 22. Last year in games were Anthony Davis and Luca didn't play. He just goes out there and cooks on offense. Now, and you saw it last night. His defense suffers. That is where LeBron, the age has shown up for LeBron more than any other aspect of his game other than just raw explosiveness. Yes, is he doesn't have the energy to do that on offense and to be a even good, much less excellent defender. And for the Lakers, they don't have a lot of other, you know, good defenders, but I'm kind of excited to see him try to see the, to see what he can do. And I think the fact seeing Durant across the court, like he's, he has some history of playing Kevin Durant in a playoff series where Durant's team's got way more talent. He has, and now those series didn't go well for him, but he individually was excellent. And it's, he seems, I don't know if resigned is the right word, but the question, we didn't include the question there. But the question was essentially, what is your role now with this team? And he said everything, everything. And then he said the way it used to be. So like this, it's a really unique spot of a guy who KW at different moments of his career has had to do this for teams or like, I'm going to this final year in Cleveland. I'll never remember him having to do, oh, you mean take over. Yes. I say, I never remember him having to do what he did. No, no, but I'm saying take over and have been like, that's just been how he's played. No, but I mean where there have been different spots where he doesn't have another great player alongside him. So like 2018 in Cleveland, his final year in Cleveland, his first stint in Cleveland at various times, and the beginning of his time in LA, that's, that's what his life was. And it's just going to be interesting to see how far he can pull it in the playoffs in year 23. Four games is a lot. I want to believe it one or two games, but four games I can't even give it 10%. If I do that, that is such an indictment on Udoka. If he can't come up with a defensive scheme. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Doubling LeBron is not like a strategy. Like he'd love it if you'd do it. Like even with bad teammates, like it's never really been a strategy because he's such a willing pass. Rockets are averaging, I think, around 119 or something the last few weeks. That's what I'm saying. The talent discrepancy is crazy. But look, the Lakers, if you're the Lakers, keep it close. Lakers are the best clutch team in the league. All right. Houston has not been great. Houston's... But is that still, you buy that stat on a Lucas team? Well, no, I'm saying if you're the Lakers, your best chance is if you can keep these games close and then in the last two minutes it's in the balance, I trust LeBron James more and I trust anybody else on the court. Include any of those guys from Houston. To get myself a good shot or somebody on the team a good shot. I think the Lakers would sign up for that. Again, they would be massive, massive. They will be decided underdogs. I also do wonder for that Rockets team, particularly for Durant, to all of a sudden enter a series where you are, like losing would be a catastrophe. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean where it's like, it will be like you said, such an indictment on us. Like for Durant in particular, because Durant and Bron are friendly. I think they are actual friends. But that obviously has been a professional rivalry for 15 some years. And all of a sudden, like if two weeks ago, if Durant was looking at potential playoff matchups, it was, oh, if we get the Lakers, if I pull this off with Luca playing the way he is, those guys is, it'll be look at what KD did. I know there were expectations going into the year. Yeah, given out in the first round, it's like you got to. No, but it would have been in a, but it would have, they would have been a, I think, a pretty big underdog against the Lakers. Because of the way they had been playing recently. But now all of a sudden, it's, right, it is, and I think the Lakers will have home court. Like the, you know, the Lakers are probably going to be the four seed. So I don't know. But Durant has felt throughout their careers that when it's even, I can beat LeBron. He's had advantages over me with his teammates. So he can't lose this because he's got the clear advantage right now. From McMenamin, if the Lakers beat the Suns and the Rockets lose to Minnesota, the Lakers clinch four. I think it's either or. I think it's just, they just need one of those things to happen. I think their magic number is one. Oh, it looks like we have a brewing McMenamin versus Nick Wright. Huge. Travis Hunter, one-way player. Next on FS1 on the Fox Sports Channel on Series XM. We're headed into week three of the UFL. We're going to take a look back at some of the highlights of week two. Start with the DC defenders in Columbus. Aviators, Aviators, Jalen McClendon hands it off to the Ziquandre White. Their hurdle into the end zone. Not enough defenders. Get their first win of the season. They're out of the squad too. Aviators. 44-26. They win this, I think. That's what Columbus was. Come on, y'all got to rep Ohio. Let's go. End of Birmingham stallions, Houston gamblers. Walk-off game winner from John Hoylan. Brew loves UFL. They got some kickers. My goodness. There's no excuse for NFL teams. You got to get one of these. I do like that this feels like you're getting, it's closer to the NFL than maybe college. The goalposts are a little bit tighter. You can take some long shots. Aren't the goalposts tighter? The goalposts are at the same width in college in the pros. Well, I thought UFL was all that. The hash mark is tighter. I said that, I was like, I was just going to leave this out. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know. I thought it was slightly different. I think goalposts with its standard high school goalposts. No, not high school. I think it's like height of the rim, buddy. I think it's pretty uniform across all the way. I was actually thinking pitching mound distance. But I do see it's about right too. College driving 12-9 against the Louisville Kings. And Jack Plummer avoids the hit, throws a pretty ball to Elijah Badger. He takes it to the house. Orlando Storm go on to win. And guess what? They're running it back. But they're a little bit right here, right? They're a little bit of a hash mark. There's different rules. Two of the league's newcomers. Storm and Kings look to light it up. Primetime Pro Football in the spring ramping up tonight at 8 Eastern on Fox. Welcome back to the show. Travis Hunter drafted. The Jags said they were getting two players in one. You know, you get an offensive player, you get a defensive player. 28 catches and 15 tackles later. Plans changing. Ian Rappaport reporting that the team is now thinking full-time corner and contributor on offense. Is this the right move? Coach? Yeah, you go, Larry. You said this day one. I thought about this a lot. And I saw a guy talk about it right before training camp. And I felt like he had a lot of good things to say. I don't know if he's available or not. Took a lot like you, too. Can we play it? We have a clip to play. I'm feeling with the whole Travis Hunter thing is that he should start on defense, play defense and then situationally, play him on offense, third down, red zone, two minute, then you can control his rest and you can control him in the most high impact situations. All right, do brush him off. That's how I feel. Go ahead, KW. So I'm wondering if this is a class half full. Like, yeah, okay, great. You were right. Class half empty. This is a bit of a disaster. No, it's a catastrophe for my Jags. No, I don't think so. No, here's the. What if he becomes an all pro for you? It makes the process of a catastrophe. You cannot. Think about when we're talking about. I'll give you a great example. Trading for Miles Garrett or Micah Parsons or, you know what I mean, these great players who either have been traded or could be traded. Nobody goes for what Travis went for. Travis went for the fifth, a future first and a third. The fifth overall pick, another first round pick and a third round or third or fourth round. Like that's still a lot for a, and I know you don't like when I say this coach, I'm basing this purely off the economics of the NFL, not a marquee position. Like as far as pay is the pay scale goes quarterback, pass rusher, wide receiver tackle, then corner is there with guard as far as what the top of the market makes. That's a just process wise. It's a catastrophe. It is lessened if he becomes an all pro, but to the point that I'm trying to make here, Trent McDuffie was literally a multi-time all pro and went for the 29th pick and a few mid-rounders. So with the big salary, that is true. I think you're looking at it only through the lens of he's only going to play defense. And what I said before and what I say right now is, yeah, he'll be on defense. That'll be his core position. But if then you use them in the red zone or in two minute or on third down and you're getting meaningful plays out of them in that situation, then it makes sense. They just switched the formula from offense first with a little bit of defense to defense first with offense. And if he's impactful on offense, now you're still getting to the same sort of general formula that they were looking for. It's just structured differently than the way they started out. I'm not trying to still coach his shine, but I felt the same way. No, you did. I was like, is he better than Deion Sanders? Is he a better athlete than Deion Sanders or Charles Woodson? They didn't go full time both ways in and I just didn't think, look, I get it. He really wanted to try it. He did have success in college. So I think it was the right thing to, hey, let him go try. I agree with you on the, they obviously gave up too much, but to you, what do you always say? Sunk in, cause fallacy or whatever, you got to move on. But I just, I think you're right to give him a shot. And now he knows he got hurt in seven games. So that's the thing. He may still think he can, but I never believed because he's not even, he's not even a big guy either. So his durability still could be in question, but I just think playing one side and then contributing on the other is the right way to go. I don't think you can go both ways full time in the NFL. So what I, that very well may be true. What I find fascinating about this is I don't think he is the biggest reason they are making this call. Like it doesn't, they, they said they were going to do it when they drafted him. The new GM was basically like, he's going to change the paradigm of football, those things. I don't think it's fair to say he failed at it. He got hurt. It wasn't going great. I will admit, but there's a lot of guys who the first half dozen games of their career don't go great. We didn't really get proof of concept. What we did get was Trevor and the offense started humming once they traded for Jacobi Myers. He was no longer in the lineup. And that's when Trevor ripped off the 19 touchdowns, one turnover, you know, they played great in the playoff game. And I view this honestly more about we, we found a formula that works on offense and we don't want to mess with it. And so, and so we are going to have Travis focus exclusively on defense where we do need help and then we'll see. But I don't, I mean, he looked like he at best he'd be mediocre on both sides. I've said, I said all along, him being the best chance of him being a star was one way. And I'd rather him be a star on one side of the ball than mediocre on both. And I also think that, I mean, Brian Thomas didn't have a great year. So maybe they expected him to bounce back. But Jacobi Myers, they did play well with him, but you're not like putting all your chips. I agree. It's just he was, they, they ended up really being their best passing attack when they stopped worrying about Travis and to some degree, Brian Thomas and just, you know, kind of Trevor threw to the open guy. And that's what they did. Mike, I just don't, you're right. He didn't look great. But there's a lot of guys who end up being great players who the first six games of their career look like, oh man, this guy's in way over his skis and then it clicks for him. I just don't know if he's going to get that opportunity. And I think you can not disrupt what Trevor has right now offensively while still incorporating me into the offense. You have a 10 or 12 play package that, that he's part of and he knows he practices it consistently. Everybody practices it. He comes in, he runs those plays. Now you may get another weapon in those key moments. It doesn't disrupt Trevor at all. It's not changing their week of preparation. This is what you do all the time. Now it's a supplement that could be a really positive thing for Trevor as opposed to what it probably was last year. Very disruptive because you're trying to justify what you gave up for this guy. Also before we move on, I don't ever copy off your notes ever. However, I can see everybody's notes and I have very good vision. Coach takes very facetious, long typed notes. I'm like, bro, does the chicken scratch. This is so you can't. It's paragraph after paragraph for the whole show. His entire prep for Travis Hunter was, I called this a year ago. That's all. Everything. Ty Simpson were about to talk about six, six graphs. Travis Hunter, I called this a year ago. Fair point. Fair point. It's time for our first episode of Ty Simpson. Questions abound. Is he a first round pick? Is he a second round pick? And hold on. Look at this comp. Jeremy Fowler quotes an unnamed. And I don't think you need to be unnamed. You know, it's a compliment. Well, a very interesting. Nobody wants to be attached to this. Jared Goff and Mac Jones. Here's the, because you would love a player whose rookie year Mac Jones and rest of career Jared Goff. Rookie year Jared Goff and rest of career Mac Jones, worst quarterback in NFL history. So it really depends on what we're like. Mac Jones is a sought after. It is so like, which comp, which, which, when are we getting, are we in the head or the tail? It's a very big problem. Is Ty Simpson worth a first round pick? I, in this, in a league that's so star for quarterbacks, I can understand why someone may go and get them. And the idea of getting them in the first round, you get that extra year, that fifth year, that's the first round. You get that extra year, that fifth year option. And that's oftentimes why people will trade up late in the first round to get a guy to have that extra year on the, on the contract. Where I struggle with him is, you know, you look at late in the season against George and Indiana, they had to combine 10 points. And those are two very good defensive coaches, two very good defensive schemes, more in line with probably what you're going to see in, in the NFL. And for that little production, that's a concern. It started off hot, didn't really end that way. And then when you watch his throws down the field, they just aren't the same level of throws that you see with, with Mendoza. And I'm not saying Mendoza is this, this elite passer, but you're not seeing even, you're not seeing enough of a body of work with those throws. The other thing that concerns me is they talk about how developed he is, which can be a really positive thing in his dad's a coach and, and all that's good. You, you want a guy who actually isn't that close to a ceiling coming into pro football, because now there's going to be growth in what you've gotten college. There should be a jump. And if he's that developed right now, the way they talk about him processing, reading defense, all those things is this, is this the finished product? And if it is, I don't necessarily think that's going to be what you're looking for necessarily. Yeah. I don't think so. He's got what 15 starts in his college career. He's six feet tall. So he's a smaller guy. And obviously, as you said, it was up and down his 15 starts. And the teams that really need a quarterback are really high in the draft, Arizona, the jets, you're not taking him two or three after six, Cleveland six, and they obviously going to give Shadoor or whatever a shot after six. There's really nobody. The jets have another pick, but there's really nobody that needs, they either have their own franchise quarterback or a young guy. They just drafted. Yeah, it might be able to become one. And then you look at next year's drafts supposed to be good. Like the jets have Gino and they have a lot of needs elsewhere. Maybe they go and try to fill needs elsewhere and word on the street is Gino is going to lead them to the promised land. They're going to draft somebody. And I think this is, I want to be, I don't want to be disrespectful to a young man. I think there's a ludicrous discussion. I think that they, I think there are, this is, and it's weird because it's consecutive drafts. No, not even last year. Last year, he wouldn't have been higher than Jackson Dart. So this is the only draft of the decade. Wow. Where he would be a top two quarterback. The Kenny Pickett draft, maybe I guess as well. So there's, you know, I'm playing fast and loose with that. But I thought if in a regular, in a typical quarterback draft, he's the fifth best quarterback available and people are looking at him as a flyer in the third round because he is pretty consensus considered the second best quarterback in this draft. Like Ty Simpson's value as a player or career should not be impacted at all by whether or not Dante Moore went back to Oregon or the year Arch Manning or whomever like graduated high school. But if either one of those guys, and I'm not even the biggest Arch Manning guy, but we're in this draft class, no one would be like, Oh, is Ty Simpson, are we going to have a four quarterback first round? It's just because it's so rare to only have one quarterback go in the first round and we know who it's going to be and we know where he's going that in my opinion, these conversations are happening. I don't think hardly anyone watched Alabama last year. I was like, that guy, that's a first round quarterback. Not after the first few games. I wonder with all outside of yours, but I wonder if yours, your drafts are even colored by this. It felt like recently we've had maybe just last year, a bad read on quarterbacks in the draft where it was talk about like, Hey, is it cam water? Shador at one or two? Well, Shador fell rounds. Could Jackson Dart, like could Jackson Dart jump to Jackson Dart? Turns out is really good. How about Tyler Schoak? Like is he going to be any good? Turns out he might be excellent. He might end up being the best of the class. So I just can't tell. It feels like a little bit like a weatherman who has been telling me it's going to be rain and it keeps on being sun. But how much? Quarterbacks always get elevated in the drafts, the Trey Lantz draft. I mean, who are those first few guys? I mean, the Prince is a pretty good player. It was the Prince, Zach Wilson, Trey Lantz, Mack Jones. I mean, there are four guys that, it's just, it's just, that's right. The five guys that. Yeah, I really don't, I mean, I don't know why you're doing the six, seven thing about the Prince. I mean, he's the top five in the. I wasn't doing the six, seven thing. It sure looked like you were. But I know. Thank you for making me socially relevant. I don't know. KW, I think what happened last year was everyone across the board got the Shador thing specifically wrong. Yeah. I think that the, I think the mock draft community as a whole, not just because I'm a new member of it, actually does a pretty good job of having the general range of players. Like the consensus mock draft, when you compare that to the actual draft, it's pretty rare that a guy is, you know, 25 or more spots drafted different. Shador was. Now that bell checks out of the league. Shador was a hundred spots different. But even I wonder if that's even insular. If the decision, if the noise from the mock drafts penetrates decision makers. Not really. You may, you look at mock drafts just to see, try to see where your opponents might be thinking, but you're evaluating GM's history of drafting, head coaches, histories of draft. You're trying to look at it from a, from a more analytical standpoint as opposed to just what the mock draft is saying. The mock drafts as far as who's going where, I do think, and I think there's some real evidence that there are certain front offices that really do value the overall kind of wisdom of the crowd as far as the ranking of the players. Like the, like the, the. Nobody wants to come out the day after the draft and have their draft rated as an F. Right. That's why I'm, because the owners, the owners still see that. Yeah. It's like, well, why do we have such a terrible draft? And the reality is you can't evaluate a draft for two or three years down the road. Anyways, we do it. And the F. Yeah, we do it. Everybody does it. And owners are probably the most susceptible to being impacted by that. Keep going. You're doing it. That's the sound of Sam learning to swim in a Hilton resort pool. Oh, that's delicious. And that's the sound of Sam and his family enjoying dinner in the hotel restaurant. Good evening. Welcome back. With stays in your favorite destinations and everything taken care of, you can savor what's important. When you want your holiday to feel like a holiday, it matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton for the stay. SGA clinched the one seed sitting out tonight's game against Denver. Can Joker make a move up the ball? Let's find out in the final edition. Bruce Ballet final edition of the year. Yes, this is it voted. I think they'll send us the ballots Tuesday. They got a rule on Luca's appeal. I know. Look, I'm disregarding that right now. Got guys who I think will be eligible. Number five, Jalen Brown. All right, just great season by him showed he could be a number one guy. Career high points, rebounds, assists. Obviously they needed all of it. All right. At number four, Luca. Fantastic year. Kind of historic numbers. I mean, very few guys have done what he did. 38, 33, eight and eight basically, but it's just a great field of candidates. Yolkich stays at number three. Some he's been strong. They've won 10 straight. Wimby got hurt, but he's only played one more game than Wimby. And the thing is we get a lot of us may get swayed by what happens at the end of the year, but you got to look at the totality. Not me. November is important. Locked in post-Allsdorne. All right. But Wimby didn't really turn it on until January. But I thought he still played great. I mean, it was great the whole year. As was Yolkich. They all were great the whole year. But number two is Wimby. This was part of it. You see, we got a graphic here for the plus minus. These are one, two, the Yolkich and Wimby and the plus minus. Even Nick, when Wimby, they went four and one against OKC. And he only played 25 minutes a game, came off the bench. Two of those games, if not three, still had a plus 50, a team high plus 50 in those five games. So just the sparse minutes he was playing, he was turning those games. And number one, Shay, I think he's going to win going away. I think it would be even bigger than the last straw poll where it was like 88 percent or something. Well, I think Joker is going to. I think Joker is going to cut into it. He might get second. I don't know if he'll. I don't know how many firsts he's going to get, but he might move, you know, replace Wimby in second. But look, Shay, his splits are crazy. Fifty five percent from the field for a guard. Eight, thirty nine percent threes really become a great three point shooter. And eighty eight, eighty nine percent for the free throw line. Best clutch player in the league. Yeah, could win that award this year and doesn't turn the ball to him. Like he's a great player. I have some it feels like number one is solid. SGA. The battle is between two and three. Could they flip the the athletic player poll had Wemby pretty far down at like six, six. Was it really? Now, athletic player poll. Oh, the player poll. But it was players voting for MVP is what it was. Yeah, he was sixth. Yeah. Now, yesterday, who was in who they came? Sorry, it was. Jalen was it was no. Shay, it was Shay one. It was Joker two. It was Luca Jalen and it must have been K. Tied for third and then Wimby sixth. Go ahead. Sorry, that was all just a setup to say that the power of suggestion is very powerful. And although I've been trying to say this is not a thing, people are now make things. Thank you. You guys were going to break Godzilla versus Muffa. That one looks great. No, it doesn't. That one looks great. It looks like Wemby's Wimby is the Mothra and Joker. Not Wemby. It's like a distant cousin of Wemby. OK, well, and guess what? And that's not Joker's face either. But that doesn't look anything like Joe. Yeah, I mean, I mean, exactly. He gave Wimby some muscles. I I agree with you. November matters to and December matters to. I also think head to head huge game. Both guys going for it. At the end like that would have been enough for me to jump. I listen, Luca dropped for me. My ballot one, four and five would have been the exact same as yours, assuming Luke is going to be eligible. Luca dropped from two to four because he missed time and it's just how it works. That match up against Wimby would have been enough for me to move Joker up where I'd go, Shay, Joker, Wimby, Luca, maybe Joker put on. It's like taunts Wimby, taunts, SGA, why he sits on the bench. Scared to play. That's going to be a fantastic play. I think throughs ballot is going to be how it finishes. Really? I think that's how the voting will be. Second. Live from New York, the show that's reminding Yanis to just suit up and start playing. It's the second hour of First Things First. Today, why one defensive player says that the league has solved Lamar Jackson. There's a wild quote. But I'm interested in discussing it. Meanwhile, the Thunder are sitting nine players tonight. What gives? I mean, I know why. I'm interested to see what you guys are going to say. Right now, we're in for a real treat, literally. Time to cook up the most delicious segment in all sports. Which teams have the recipe for success? Which teams are hungry for a championship? In which teams should we put a fork in there done? We get it. Featuring a pie, Bruce Fave, Mississippi Mud, often requested, rarely purchased. This isn't pie, bro. This is a brownie. That's a pie. It's a circle. It's in a pie tin. There is no pie quality. A baked good in a circle. I don't even know if it is baked. Clearly a pie. No, Bruce, this is just a... We're falcons themed. I mean, this is... We would give you some, but you got to talk, so... And remember... Next five minutes... Yeah, we tried it without a pie. Didn't work. It didn't work. The segment didn't work. Now you guys just keep... Can we stop with the zoom in? It doesn't work, dude. That's what we're trying to say. It doesn't work. We carry the segment. Half a percent... Nick, it is delicious. I believe it. Let it go. Go to the pie, please. Half a percent... Half a percent... And give me the next half a percent as well. KW, you asked for it. Modern medicine miracle. Both of them need it. Embed need the fastest appendectomy recovery ever. And the Lakers need some real Spanish medicine. Well, look, they got something going on over there in Europe. Austin's got to go over there. I mean, it's crazy. Something's going on in Europe. I'm giving them both. Luke will be back. Half a percent. Because maybe they're... In the Sixers case, former MVP, in the Lakers case, future MVP gets back in time. So I can't write them off entirely. But they're in rough shape. One percent... I just can't quit the Clippers. Why? Respect for Kwa. Wow. It's like... It matters to me. He is playing brew at the high... This is the best start to finish regular season he individually has had in his Clippers career. And unlike Danny, I don't have a personal family blood feud with Darius Garland. I think Ty... I think Ty Luz is a good coach. I forgot about that. And so I'm giving them one percent. And also they might end up with the baby spurs in round one. And again, the spurs should clock them. But it's possible that the experience is at two to one percent. Three percent the calves. Caves fans. I understand. We used to be tight. I love that casino downtown. We've had many a great finals weeks together. I see your notes. What more can the calves do to get more respect in tears in title pie? And the answer sadly is nothing. I... The trade for James Harden was to me the push I needed to be like, I don't believe in you. Despite the fact that my sport coat matches the color of your slice of the pie. Almost exactly. It's the calves coat. I just really... As much as I want to believe in you, I can't. Down because I don't know what's going on with Anthony Edwards' name. To four percent. The Minnesota Timberwolves. I don't love it. No. I do love that Anthony Edwards has decided, you know what? I'm going to push this no dress code thing on the bench as far as I can. I like that. I like Anthony Edwards showing up in undershirts and woofin' for his team. I like him a lot and I like the way he carries himself a lot and he's a great player. But I... I don't think they know if he's going to be a hundred percent and I certainly don't like and I know they beat him in the playoffs before that they now are almost assuredly going to get Denver in round one. None of that sounds great so they're down to four percent. Up to four percent. Rockets. Hello. They just keep winning. Like, not only do they keep winning, they are a huge favorite to be in round two. And I would imagine if Anthony Edwards comes back that the Rockets are a bigger favorite to make round two than Denver is. The Rockets will be bigger favorites over what's left of the Lakers than Denver will be over Minnesota. You know what I mean? Even if we... If Ant comes back and it looks like himself. So the Rockets are up to four percent. Biggest slice maybe of the season or certainly of the last month and a half for this team. The New York Knickerbockers. Huge. This is like a huge game. Take your six percent slice. Well, it's not just this game. They also... They had the really bad week a few weeks ago. And so every major major major major major major major major major major major major major Just for one second. Hubs, do you have any milk for... Thank you. What is this? It wasn't about the pie. Thank you. Keep going. Sorry, we just wanted a little... Just stop. Just to bring a big thing of milk out. I didn't want... What? We thought that the pie really carried the segment. Up to 8%. You didn't even bring brew a glass. I didn't know if he wanted any. Up to 8% the Detroit Pistons with the return of Cade Conningham with Jalen Duren. Brew, I hope he's going to be on one of your all NBA teams. Jalen Duren? Yeah, yeah. It's weird now because you don't have to have three centers. But he deserves a spot and give an extra look to Dennis Jenkins. Up to 8% the Detroit Pistons. Up all the way to 9% the suddenly terrifying Denver Knuts. Hello. Yeah. And the... While everyone understandably is focused on Joker's unbelievable statistical season. Jamal Murray having... I think he's going to be on one of your all NBA teams. Having the best season of his career. Aaron Gordon coming back from injury and being awesome immediately. Still a little nervous about Peyton Watson. Cam Johnson maybe coming on at the end. Remember they moved on from Michael Porter Jr. for Cam Johnson. Hoping to get more reliable playing the playoffs. We'll see. Up to 9% Denver Knuggets. Down a tick to 10% Spurs. Down purely because I'm just a little nervous about Wimby. Very fair. I mean he got banged up. They say he's going to play tonight. Just for the 60... Just for... They're not saying it but in my opinion just for award eligibility. Fine. I don't begrudge him that. But just a little anxious about the weirdness of the injury. Like watching it was weird where he grabbed was weird. What it was. That is... And him staying healthy through three or four rounds. Exactly. And now to their credit. We miss games they win. They're I think now 13 and five when he doesn't play. Like they're fine against... They have shown the ability to win games without him. And Castle is going to... Castle certainly is going to make an all defensive team and might make an all NBA team depending on who's eligible. But they obviously need a full go Wimby to win four rounds. Two teams left more than half the pie remaining. Down just a percent. The Boston Celtics. This is not about last night. This is about Cade coming back and the Knicks looking stronger. So this is one of the reasons the Celtics had such a big slice was that I thought their path through the East was going to be relatively speaking easy. But Cade coming back as early as he did in the one series they wouldn't have home court advantage in. Change is that. Can I give one... Sure. Not joking. Jalen has missed enough time. Just a handful of games with the Sicilis tendonitis that it's not in the killies but foot ankle. Yeah, I think you have to be. I mean maybe he could have gone last night and that part of me thinks it was a Missoula game plan like you outlined earlier. But he's missed a few of these and I'm not in the shocking development. I'm almost more worried about Jalen's availability than Tatum's availability. Listen, if he has a real injury that changes things to me. To me they just named, they called it something they gave him the night all. And then up to 30% Oklahoma City. There was for every other edition of title pie we've had to be open to the possibility of wait. Could the Spurs catch them? And the answer is no. The Spurs didn't catch them and we now know they're not going to play their guys the rest of the year so they will go into the playoffs healthy, rested and as the number one overall seed. That is the latest edition of title pie. Yeah, look this... I'm not zoom in on the pie in the middle. You can have some now. I'm alright. Really? Why would I only... The idea behind this segment I guess is someone does the pie and the other people eat pie. So I can't, I do the pie so I can't eat the pie. Look this pie, this colorful pie you created, it's a participation trophy pie. That was cute for the first, you know, 75 games or so. Because we want to, you know, give you a chance. Yeah. But now that the playoffs are about to start the play-ins next week, we're right there around the corner. Eliminate everyone after the Knicks. Because none of those teams are going to win the championship. Not Houston, not Minnesota, not Cleveland, not the Clippers, not the Lakers or the Six. I mean, do you really think they got a chance? The Pacers had a chance and they were, they did not, they were not, they didn't have a huge slice of the pie last year. Thank you KW. Great take. That was last year. Well, what do you want me to do? And I will give you that. Last year was a bit of a, that was crazy that Pacers got there. You can't just... But not this year. Crazy stuff. Here it is. OKC 30%. Wait, you're doing your own pie? You're just supposed to say here's my... Wait. OKC 30%. What is this? That's a more realistic pie. That's what it is. Boston and San Antonio 20% each. Denver 15%. Detroit 8%. The Knicks 7%. This is... That's the pie. This is not... This is not... No Charlotte, no Houston. There probably wasn't on there. None at all the squads. Atlanta. And land your own pie. You're not supposed to make your own pie. It's just not how the... That's... If he, if Hubs All of a sudden brings out an apple pie... If you would eat pie while I made my pie, it would have been... It is. You know what, Bru? I have something, I have a confession. I've been hiding something. You got a ballot, Knicks ballot or something like that? Even better. I've got a bud list. There it is, there it is. A number three. On my under... Who leaked it? Number three. Who leaked it? On my under dress list. Brutal. The worst graphic in sports TV. First of all, that is not Brutal. He doesn't like that one because of the text on there. The chest symbol and the face. What's up with that expression? Number two on Knicks under dress list. This off-brand Wesley Snipes wannabe character. And number one on Knicks under dress list, Cowboy Brew. That old favorite, that KW. Who leaked it to Nick that I had a pie? He's in with the whole staff. That's where he preps. Yeah, but it's text. We're not texting. They should be... But it's collaborative and then he picks it up. You can't be doing... Can't do that. Can't do that. That's a violation. Y'all just gonna make me do it more. Can I go back to... I'm feeling dangerous. Dusk, can I go back to either pie? No, my pie! No, either pie, whatever pie is up. I'm making the pie larger. This is all I'm saying. Okay? I, unlike the MVP ballot where I have to look at the entire year and remember... During football season, how teams did in October, remember Halloween? I don't do that. All-Star game to now is, I think, is a clearer indication of who you are. Hawks and Hornets, split a slice. That's all I'm saying. Split it. Since the All-Star break, the Hawks are super hot, the Celtics we believe in. The Hornets are hot, the Cavs... They have a slice. Have a slice, the Knicks have a slice. The power... The Hornets have been playing some good defense. Hawks are having some fun. I don't know how good of a defensive team they are. Having some fun? Is that what you said? They're playing with joy. Oh, got you. Okay, no vibes, guy. Yeah. They also are hitting threes. Hornets are just filling the stat sheet up with threes. Hawks are shooting the three well. I'm just saying, you steal a game here or there, interesting things can happen. Game one of the finals last year, the Pacers shot 46% from three. All of a sudden, we're like, hold on a second. We've got a real series. I just think that these teams can steal a series from someone. But the Pacers, it's not series pie. It's championship pie. But if you steal one series, all of a sudden... You actually think the Charlotte Hornets could win the championship. I think they could win... Look, I think they could steal a series. Then next thing you know, uh-oh, what just happened? Did they steal four series? Someone's injured. Oh, you get Tyrese Hallibur and hit a shot and it bounced 30 feet. They're not as good as last year's Pacers. They're not. And they don't have to play all the Pacers. Last year's Pacers... They had experience. The Pacers had been to the playoffs before. They had two legitimate All-Star. Yes, they had... I mean... I'm not asking for 20%. I'm asking for half a percent. We're up to something. Split a slice. Split one. This is what happens when it's a participation trophy. Now everybody wants one. What is this? The Sixers can get one and their best wear is gone. Why can't the Hawks get one? That's what this leads to. You know you don't believe all those teams could win. This is a good pie. This is the real pie. That's a good pie, actually. I'm sorry. This is the real pie. Yeah, I like that pie. I don't know that. This is two for two on pies. Can I just say something? Can I... What does it kid help you? What am I breaking? The fourth wall. But we kind of always do that in the show. So it works better for Six. If I did title pie the way Brew wanted me to, then it would be like Brew's... And it would be like Brew... I don't know if you guys have noticed Brew's ballot the last month. It's the same five guys in the same order. Yeah. Maybe not a month. It's not. That's from Y'all, number two. It's Wemby. I mean it is. What is it? It's Y'know, but we need a little double. You want me to... No. You want Mayhem. Yeah. That's Nick's tears. No. Where Danis Jenkins is one of the 25 players in the league. That's the Mount... Not tears, but regardless. No. What I want... Where Bam! Outta bio is the third best player in the league. You know who's lurking in the periphery of MVP? Bam. No, I don't know somebody. Oh, yeah. The Mountain. The Mountain. I'm glad we did it. You just see... Yeah, he's out of here. Pies. You got to have some. He's always stealing it every day. You know what? He's got back-buying. He's got back-buying. Turns out I'm starving. Thunder taking the night off. Hey Sainsbury's. We get through so many snacks. Have you got anything to help me save? Well, we're always matching and lowering prices. So hundreds of Sainsbury's fresh fruit, veg and everyday products are price matched to Aldi. And every week with Netto you can save money on thousands of the products your family loves. So you can snack away knowing you're saving money. Sainsbury's good food for all of us. Selected products, LD Price Match not in an eye. Nectar prices require Nectar account. Terms at Sainsbury's.co.uk slash LD Price Match and Nectar.com slash Price's Terms. Saturday night, baseball night on Fox. Buckle up. Red Sox, we've finally started to win games. Take it on the Cardinals or you might see giants taking on the Orioles. That's tomorrow at seven o'clock only on Fox. Welcome back to the show. Thunder are in Denver. Nine players are out for the reigning champs. Denver is favored by 12 points. Here's a list of guys you won't see suiting up. Your reaction to whatever team the Thunder is going to field and early take from old KW. I'm interested in this. Oh, why? I just, it's everything to lose for Denver and the Thunder are just gonna go out there and have a blast. Oh, you mean you say everything to lose. You lose the win. It keep third. Right, because they can drop in the standings. Listen, I do not begrudge OKC this at all because you know I'm a big believer in number one seed should be able to pick their playoff opponent. Like that should be the reward rather than just be pure seeding. But I think it can only be viewed through the lens of they want Denver and San Antonio to play each other in round two and make that side of the bracket as hard as possible. And they do not want Denver to fall to four. And all of a sudden that's their round two matchup like it was last year. I don't, I will not go as far as to say, Bru, they're scared of Denver, but they are intentionally trying to make it so they don't play Denver in round two. You don't think this is just a rest like we just said not at all. No, I think this is targeted to I think maybe you would give some guys the night off if they were playing almost any other team in the league. I think they specifically want Denver to win this game. So they which goes a long way to Denver locking up the three seats. That's the only way I view it. Yeah, look, I'm generally against trying to finagle your playoff matchups because I just think that that's given the other team motivation and, you know, just go out and play all out. There's talk that Cleveland wants to stay in four and play Detroit in the second round and all that. But this I agree with you, Nick. This isn't, obviously they know Denver would be a tough series. They went seven last year. You can argue that if Aaron Gordon doesn't injure his hamstring, maybe Denver wins that series. And even this year, they're three and O against Denver, OKC. There and then you look at the other teams that they could meet in the second round. They're four and O against the Lakers, two and two against Minnesota and two and one against Houston. So I agree with you. I don't think this is so much. Certainly they'd rather play one of these three than Denver, but it's not certainly not a fear of Denver. It is though. I think we'd like Denver and San Antonio to beat each other up for seven games, soften whoever wins that series up for us in the conference finals. And I do think they would love for Denver to knock off. That's what I was going to say. That is probably the most important thing because the Spurs, I mean, you said their number. Yeah. And Jaylin Williams admitted right now they're better. Shay said it at one point before they eventually beat him one time. So and they're a young team, even though they're champions, they are themselves a young team, OKC. So maybe the way San Antonio played against them got in their head a little bit and they would love for Denver to take them out. That's wild. Yeah, I agree with that last part the most. I think it is less fear of Denver and more. We'd love for the Spurs to get clipped. And if not, we want some serious body blows against them in round two. And they also see that the Rockets are a flawed team and the Lakers are as injured as anybody. So having all those teams on one side of the bracket and then you're on the side with whoever comes in second in the play-in plus Lakers Rockets is the ideal scenario for Oklahoma City. Now it can blow up in your face if all of a sudden, good god, is that Lucadontrages music in game two of the first round. Then all of a sudden, your round two can get harder. But they beat that. You still rather them than Denver or San Antonio. Very interesting. Head to Houston where the Sixers lost to the Rockets and Embiid lost his appendix. Some reports say a month. Some reports say two weeks. We haven't heard from the Sixers. Everyone's a little bit different. How have injuries impacted Embiid's legacy? I think I now put him in not the Bill Walton bucket because Walton was a champion proven playoff great player. Like Walton had no question marks at all except he got hurt. So and Embiid, even healthy, obviously had underachieved and underperformed in the playoffs. But in that very next tier of biggest all time greats careers derailed by injury, he to me is jumps ahead of Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, those guys as best players I've ever seen who careers just wrecked it all. Like more than Derek Rose even. Oh, so you think he would have been better than Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway? Yes. I mean, I'm going to show you a stunning, I think stunning graphic. Here are the all time leading points per game guys in NBA history. He's fourth. And then look at the minutes played per game. So Lucas the lowest at 35 other than Embiid. So Embiid was 0.88 points per minute for his career. He is, by that metric, the best score ever. Like I know I don't think he's the best score ever, but as far as nobody in the history of the league has scored more on a per minute basis than him. He has three top two MVP finishes. Only 14 guys in the history of the league have more. And it's 12 of the greatest 15 players ever and a couple other all time greats. And we're just never like this. This one brew is the unluckiest of them all. Like you can get a pin decided at any point in the calendar except for right now. And it's not that big of a deal. And instead it probably ends his season. Yeah, and then look at some of his other injuries. Was it last year, the Bells, Palsy? I mean, that just is out of your control. And the orbital fractures, I mean, obviously it's contact, but that's not your fault. I would not put him, I think Embiid is phenomenal. I think he would have been a top 10 center of all time had he had a healthy career. He's one of the greatest scores that we have. I mean, I would always get bothered by him earlier in his career, cause I thought he should have been on the block more and playing inside more. But he is a phenomenal jump shooter. Like, I mean, as far as just real big men, not a Kevin Durant, not a Dirk Nivisti. He's the best jump shooting center ever. Incredible shooter. I mean, a phenomenal shooter, especially in the mid range. But I would not put him ahead right now of Grant Hill and Penny, I think they, obviously would have been historic players as well. And it is like Bill Walton, that's really what this is. Walton though, to your point, capitalized, it was early in his career. Walton only started 60 or more games one time in his career. And he capitalized on it and won the championship 1977. And then never was his health was a problem. The rest of his career. MB will be a Hall of Famer. Yeah, he's Walton made two All-Star teams. Think about it, only two. Now a lot of, you look at some of the older guys that made the Hall of Fame and they had shorter primes than even MB. MB made seven All-Star games, five All-MBA, I believe. One in MVP, like he, and the NBA Hall of Fame is a little easier to get into than some of these other. So he's getting in and rightly, so I'm not shocked at your response cause I think a lot of people would be like, really, but when you look at his career compared to some guys that are kind of legends, he had played more than them and had more accolades than them. So I think he'll definitely get in the Hall of Fame. So in that regard, we're just, he's robbed and we're robbed of seeing how great he could have been. But at least I believe it's clear he'll still be a Hall of Famer. I know we were joking around in title pie, you put the Sixers and the Lakers at medical miracle. And again, I'm not an expert on appendectomies, but I think it's like you have to kind of cut through your, the abdomen to get to the appendix. If he can come back, if your Luca comes back, you're very optimistic about the Lakers. If he can come back, we're optimistic about Sixers. Yeah, well listen, I have been probably more optimistic about the Sixers than anyone on the show just because, listen, people can do side-eye at how they got here, but Paul George is fresh and playing the best basketball he's played in a couple years. I really like Maxi. I believe Edgecone's been an excellent young player. I like the supporting cast and Embiid, where the injuries have taken the biggest hole on Embiid other than Games Mist is, he used to be a dominant defender. He is not as dominant of a defensive player anymore. Or rebounder. Right, but he still is just a great scorer. Just drop him in, he's gonna give you 26-ish points a night. So yeah, I would give them a puncher's chance in almost any series, but I don't think he can get to the heights that Luca can, if you know, as far as how I feel about the Lakers. And it is true that he hasn't been at his best in the postseason. There have been circumstances, but he has a very ignominious distinction of, the list of MVPs who haven't won a title is short. The list of MVPs who haven't been to the finals is Embiid, Nash, Derek Rose. The list of MVPs who haven't been to a conference finals is him. And I just don't know when he gets the opportunity. I feel sick for him. Yeah, and he hasn't delivered in the playoffs, but I do think a lot of that. I think the majority of that is he's always, even when he played, he was 80%. He'd miss every fourth game or something like that. So he just hasn't been healthy, even in the playoffs when he's played. Going to the NFL has Lamar been figured out. One defensive player says, yes, that's next up, first with coach Manjane. Obvious. Indeed presents. Highers you can't afford to get wrong. Like a warehouse operations manager. Where are the fort lifts? I sold them. They were too expensive. I got a great deal on these scooters though. You expect us to move a two-ton pallet on a scooter. It'll be fun. Just think of the core strength you'll build. This is a job for sponsored jobs. This is what happens when you don't sponsor your job on Indeed. So the next time you need someone to get the job done right, get matched with quality candidates with an Indeed sponsored job. Visit Indeed.com slash NextHire and sponsor your job today. Afternoon headlines presented by Afrin. You get ridiculously fast nasal congestion release. You think it's fast? It's ridiculously fast. Charles Menehue from The Commanders thinks defenses have solved the riddle that is Lamar Jackson. Here he is talking about Josh and Lamar. Take a listen. This is the thing about Josh Island that I don't think people, I don't think the league has truly figured him out. Lamar, honestly, you bring a five-man rush on him and collapse that pocket. He's drifting backwards. And unfortunately, he might make a play that isn't going to be the best play for the Ravens. I just think people, I think he figured out Lamar. You come after him, bro. OK, that's fair foul. I'm going to be nice to Charles Menehue. Super old champion, Charles. Yeah, I'm going to be nice to him. I can understand how he, as a member of the Chiefs for the last three years, feels like we had Lamar figured out. Now, I think some of that also was just Lamar not playing well in the big moments. But the Chiefs have had their way with Lamar. Even last year in the regular season, they've beaten him. Josh has obviously played well, lost in shootouts to the Chiefs or beat him in the regular season. But it's just ridiculous to say the leagues. Two years ago, Lamar had 41 touchdowns, four interceptions, a 119.6 pass. Pre-figured out, though. So that's what I'm wondering. When did they figure it out? So last year in the first four games, remember he had nine touchdowns. And this was against Detroit Buffalo. The Buffalo game, he was great. And Derek had refumbled and they collapsed. Detroit, he played well. He had nine touchdowns, zero picks in the first three games. Kansas City, again, plays so-so. Then the next two games, he has like five touchdowns, no picks. So he had 15 touchdowns, one pick last year in the first six games. Then I think where he struggled was the injuries, the sicknesses, he's not practicing. And then when he comes back late in the season and he's healthy, we think, he plays well. The Pittsburgh game, three touchdown passes, obviously makes the great throws. They're like Isaiah likely, Zay flowers. They have a chance to win. And then the kicker misses the field goal. So I get it, Lamar was down last year, but I think to say the leagues figured him out, obviously is ridiculous. But as a chief, I understand why he would put Josh ahead of Lamar. Yeah, you could talk about that way about any quarterback that's had a down season. Has the league figured out Patrick Mahomes? And maybe they have because he's had some down season. So I guess he's been figured out. And look, if you can keep Lamar in the pocket, that's the best case scenario. But one of the things about Lamar is his unpredictability is the hardest thing because you don't know what he's going to do with the ball. You don't know when he's going to escape, when he's going to stay in, when he's going to buy time and throw it down the field. He doesn't follow a consistent pattern. So to say that maybe that's what he's saying is, you're attempting to get consistency out of them, but there's a lot of times defensively where you're trying to do certain things. And you think that as long as you do that, you're going to be in great shape. I don't know how many times I've said to Nick, you got to keep Mahomes in the pocket, but he finds a way to do it. So maybe they just haven't had as much success keeping Josh Allen in the pocket. And that's why they haven't figured him out. It just seems a little unfair on a down season to now give him the moniker of they figured him out. And you cite all those numbers. And there's other good quarterbacks that have dad down seasons where people haven't said, oh yeah, we've got the formula to stop them. Well, I think a lot of guys, when they had their first time they have a down year, people say the blueprints out. I remember the blue, when we were still in boxes, the blueprint was out on Mahomes. The three super old appearances who named me Vigo. It's like, oh, you played too high. Like so, so people saying the blueprints out is not, you know, unique or too Lamar. And I listen, I think this is painted in too broad of strokes. But what he described, we can all visualize exactly what he's talking about. And it's not just games against the Chiefs, where Lamar does start prematurely backpedaling the playoff game against Buffalo and set the ball on the ground. But they're a playoff game. Well, yeah. And so, is it figured out? Is it in the playoff games he gets tight individually? I'm not sure, you know, everyone can have their own opinion on that. There's not a ton of regular season games. No, there's not. But what, but the point I'm making is, what he is specifically describing, we all know exactly what he's talking about and can think of multiple moments like that from Lamar. And if you listen to more of it, he does say, he's like, but if he breaks through, like he's gone, and that is to me the question mark for Lamar going into next year, because this past year, and a little bit the year before, but certainly this past year, he was just so much more hesitant to be like, stop and put his foot in the ground and go run, because that was, he did take more kind of odd or devastating sacks than the typical great quarterback. But it was because he also broke off more 30 yard out of nowhere runs than any other quarterback in the league. And so, and Charles also said, he's like, now what Josh will do is Josh will have some bad fumbles. Like I don't think he was really trying to play favorites in that, but I think this is overstating it, but I agree with the analysis of, I do think Lamar is easier to game plan than for Josh. And I do think the best defenses and the best coordinators have a better plan for Lamar than they do for Josh. I do feel that way. And now maybe it is reason to bias of Lamar coming off a bad year and Josh playing really well, but I don't, I think that's accurate. But what makes Lamar so difficult is his unpredictability and trying to practice all the plays that break down. And it's not the standard defenses. It's all the defense that you have to play after things aren't standard. So yeah, if you can just keep them into the standard plays and keep them in the pocket, yeah, that's a really good formula. But that applies to a lot of guys who have the type of ability that Lamar has. And do you think it's fair to say that people have figured out Mahomes? Well, I think that- Because he had a down year? Well, he's had statistically a few down years in a row. I think when- He must be figured out. I think that, yeah, I personally think, and people can say it's a double standard, but it's a deserved double standard. If one guy's been to five of the last eight Super Bowls and has every individual, his no matter what his level of play in that regular season is, he is elite statistically every single postseason, then I don't think the guys figured out. So like that's, I do, I judge Patrick differently than all these other guys, because the year in 2022, his last MVP year, he was unbelievable statistically in the playoffs. And in 2023, the year nobody could catch him, he was his worst statistical year. He was unbelievable individually in the playoffs. So if people had figured out Patrick, that would show up more often than once every three years in a Super Bowl. And so no, I don't think that. I think Lamar is, the Lamar's postseason resume is the exact inverse of that. And because of that, I think he is more open to criticism and more susceptible to criticism. But do you think that's more of a function of Lamar hasn't figured out how to play in the playoffs, as opposed to defense is figuring out how to play Lamar? I think maybe a bit of both. Like the play you're talking about, we all remember Buffalo, he's scrambling about it. And just basically drop the ball. Like that's not, yeah, they got pressure on him, which happens, but him dropping the ball is not them figuring it out. No, but it's the same play he made in each of the last two games, one regular season, one postseason against the Chiefs. But is that a defensive solution, or is that a Lamar problem? Right, right. I guess I don't know. Because, and the same thing with Patrick, where Patrick excels in the playoffs, maybe that's a, you know, Patrick Mahomes strength, as opposed to a defensive weakness. Live from New York, it's First Things First Over Time. Today, Ken LeBron carried the Lakers to a first round playoff victory we discussed. Meanwhile, Travis Hunter, more with less. Is anyone a fan of him playing offense and defense? Not anymore, they used to be in- I am, I am. They used to be in-vogue. Not full time. I don't know, I do this year. I don't believe in giving up both something. On both sides. Wow. You have to do it. What? What? You're like, you're like trying to act like you're better than us. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. Quitters. Have some resolve. And finally, Mahomes need more weapons. Now we get ready for, is this a war room segment? Daniel, is it what we're getting ready for? MockDraft 2.0. No, we're in the war room, the Chiefs war room. Ooh. Yeah. They're going to the most interesting teams in the draft. Their first time having a top 10 hit since 2013. Nope. You don't have needs all over the place. No, they certainly have needs. I reject the idea that they have way more needs than your typical teams. Full Swiss Chiefs. I don't think they have, let me put it like this. I have a crazy outtake. I don't think the Chiefs have more obvious needs than the Patriots. I don't, see? And he thinks that's crazy. What? I don't. Well, they don't have, they're starting defensive backfield. There's one need. Myth or big. Yeah. The Patriots don't have, the Patriots don't have, why receivers were off into blind? We just got Romeo Dobbs from the Packers. Okay, I don't think that solves it. I don't think taking the Packers fourth option solves it. He's good. He is good. See, I knew it. Nick's win, playoff atmosphere in the garden, Mike Brown gets to 52 wins. Brew is there. It was, it really was great. Danny was talking about he and I going, they saw ticket prices, watch on TV. That's not true. No, it's broke. I have friends. Heck yeah. We've been in the league for 40 years. Shares him the drought. Almost. Are we viewing the Knicks as a legit threat in the East? No. Why? I've been consistent. How dare you call the Cavs a legit threat, not the Knicks. How dare you? It's outrageous. I absolutely like the Cavs ceiling over the Knicks ceiling. Now listen, I think Boston is the heavy favorite. And if you wanted to find four teams as the favorite, that's fine. Or as legit threat. As legit, as legit threats. You can't have four favorites. That'd be weird. No, as legit threats, then sure. But I do not see a realistic path. But mainly I don't trust them. And I'm, the Knicks, and I'm surprised you guys do. This team is a flawed in how it's constructed. But put it aside if you don't believe like I do, that when you have to play Brunson in towns, big playoff minutes together, that that is gonna be a problem defensively for them in the playoffs. Put that aside. Just this year, they have been streaky. They have not been consistent. Since New Year's Eve, this is how they have played basketball. Lose 9 of 11, win eight straight, play 500 ball, win seven straight, lose three straight, win four straight. Three straight. I mean, that happens. Okay, but that seven, that seven game win streak from March 11th to March 24th, all against tanking teams. Every single game. And you say it happens, that's fine. But compare it to the other top three seeds in the East and the West. How many three game losing streaks do the legit contenders have this year? One and zero across the board. Except for the next, that's four. They are not a consistent, they are not a consistent basketball team. So can I go real quick, Bru? I love when Bru hates. I hate to gather himself. I also, if you hadn't picked the calves, I might feel a little better about what you said. If you said the calves before, it's hate, it came back and looked like prime. So you are backing away so much from that calf. It's turning and running from it, but that's fine. So listen, I don't, I want to be clear. Let me check out title pie. I gave them a 6% chance. It's too high. So that's where, I don't think any of us right now are picking the Knicks. And I don't think any of us right now have the Knicks over Boston or Detroit. I don't know, I still confuse why we saw the Knicks beat the Celtics and now the Knicks are better in the Celtics. Hold on, what are you saying you saw? Last year. Last night and last year. So the Knicks are better, the Celtics are worse. And we're like, yeah, Celtics over Knicks. Why are the Celtics, hold on. You know, Jason Tatum is recovering from an Achilles Dair. So I think that the Celtics, the fact that the Celtics are, last year they were the two seed, this year they're the two seed, and this year they played the vast majority of the season without Tatum, speaks to the fact that the other guys around it must have gotten better. That those guys are saying. This year seems better than last year's Celtics. I think that the players outside of Jason Tatum are all better. A lot of them are untested in the playoffs. Sure, but Derek is Shierman, no doubt. But Jalen Brown is playing better. I think that, you know, Derek White has played at a very high level last few years. I think he's playing a little better. I think, and so. Added Vooch. I also think that it is harder to defend a title than it is to have your season end in late April, as opposed to mid June, and then come back, all those things. But the point that I was trying to make is, I don't brew an eye are going to yell at Danny and then also say we don't have them ahead of Boston or probably Detroit. But I do think a team that last year made the conference finals this year is deeper, and at least it plays deeper. They have a slightly better offense than last year, a slightly better defense than last year, and a better record than last year. And they are a way better fourth quarter team. And I do think that, listen, Tibs and Mike Brown both have their own strengths and weaknesses. But wondering whether or not your big question about Detroit, which I think is a fair one, is have they been playing playoff basketball for six months so they don't have an extra gear to get to? That was a fair critique forever about Tibs teams. Trust me, I know. Right, exactly. But that's not really the critique on Mike Brown. And so for all those reasons, I just think dismissing them is a bridge to fall. Look, I don't like them against Detroit at all. And maybe I'm putting too much into the regular season. Obviously, they beat Detroit last year. But Detroit wasn't that good last year. And they gave the Knicks all they wanted. Knicks won in six. But I actually think Detroit could have won that series. It was that nipping tuck. But Danny, I'm giving the Knicks a solid chance to beat the Celtics again. Because while you did say it, the Celtics aren't as good as I don't think they're because Jason Tatum is just not going to be no part of his own. What he was a year ago. And the Knicks are better. Nick just showed the stats. Knicks are top 10. What they're not a ton of type teams that are top 10 offense and defense, their third offense, eighth defense. And they have wings that can guard the Celtics wings. They built two matchup with the Celtics. Right, with a Nobby and bridges and heart. They held Brown and Tatum, the 40% shooting last year in that playoff series when they upset them. They're good in the clutch. They're a top six team in the clutch. And you got Jalen, you got Kat that can draw double teams. And then if your guys will hit the open threes that you get them, you can win close game. So I'm not, I don't know who I'm going to pick at this moment in the Boston Knicks series in the second round, assuming that's where we get. But I think the Knicks, I like Detroit and Boston, but the Knicks are right there with them. And definitely I think ahead of your caps. I still think that Boston last year, listen, the Knicks beat them, they beat them in six. And I was very surprised then. Some of it is they were built to beat them. Boston also went cold. Well, but that's what they do. They should freeze. They live and die. They live and die by it. But I will bet on them making their shots more often than not. I'll trust the offense over the defense. I do trust Boston's offense. Hold on before I move on. You're not allowed to have that take KW. That way they live and die on threes. KW. I like the horn. KW. Last year during the series, when I, no one, when Boston was going to go back to back and you were all in on the Celtics. And I had the audacity to pick the Knicks in that series. Every game the Knicks won, you came in and called it a fluke. And after Tatum went down and they were down 3-1, you came on and said the Celtics were still going to win the series. In for a penny, in for a penny. I respect it. Take and take. So all of a sudden you can't be like live and die with the three when you believed in them last year. I feel like you can pencil in a bad shooting night loss for the Celtics. Sure. It's like I got to lose four. Well, they did. And they lost the game where both teams were cold. Remember that one game like the Knicks were ice cold too. They lost that one as well. The Celtics series against the Knicks last year, listen. It's weird. It's very hard to repeat as champions. But also it was that Missoula I think has turned into a great coach. I think that series was much like JJ Redick learned like in Missoula's Accomplishment, where Missoula is a champion. But JJ Redick I don't think ever again will be like, hey, second half of a playoff game, what if we don't sub? I think Missoula might have, from that Knicks series, been like, I know what our general 100 game philosophy on three-point shooting is. Maybe 18-point second half playoff games. The second half leads in playoff games. We can dial back the bombing from three. I'm not sure he will. I don't know. I mean, it would be smart. But he seems to be like, this is what we do. Yep. And we're going to live and die with it. But all right. We'll talk more about the Celtics right now. They lost. Tatum cleared a mental hurdle of coming back to the garden. There was no jail in Brown. Here's Tatum post-game. It was a big moment, a big hurdle for me. And I was nervous and anxious to come back here. Obviously, I wanted to win in play-crate. But more importantly, I just kind of wanted to walk off the court. You know, I'm on to feet. Did you feel nervous once you stepped on the floor or once the game started? Yeah. I was especially like the start to the game. He's unbelievable. I'd be like, heck no. His candor is really refreshing. Amazing. Where you press and Tatum. I continue to be blown away by it, honestly. There are stories that just happen. And it just makes you have to rethink things. Because athletes progress and evolution and sports science. He came back after rupturing his Achilles in 298 days. It was well documented. And that was roughly a month ago. You said he came back March 6. Here we are, April 10. So five weeks. 35 days ago. 35 days. Five weeks. And he's playing at this level. He's had great games. He's averaging 22, 10, and 5 on a team that I think we all think is going to win the Eastern Conference. That means that if that's the new precedent for the world class superstar athlete who gets the surgery the next day and then rehabs it and attacks it like that, that if the Pacers were good, Tyrese Halliburton could suffer that Achilles injury in game seven. And 298 days from game seven last year is next Thursday. But it makes me rethink what is probably the Achilles injury for a basketball player was supposed to be a year and a half injury before you could start to see it. And I know you talked about Dominique Historic. I was going to say, that was how long ago? Dominique? Dominique 35 years ago. Almost 40 years ago. I think it's just going to be. Look, I'm not trying to take anything from Tatum. This is remarkable. But in the 1990s, Dominique Wilkins did this, came back a few days right sooner, I think, than Tatum. And went back to average in 30 points a game. So I just think it might depend on the athlete. And Durant just a few years ago took almost two years. Well, we just saw Halliburton yesterday saying he was playing five on five basketball. I mean, obviously the medicine and the science and all that is better. I also think that it would appear all Achilles tears might not be equal. And I don't think, I think that if the general public takes your view of it, that'll be unfair to the next group of guys that tears their Achilles. I mean, listen, I'm amazed by it. It's remarkable. It's just anything's possible. Yeah, sure. But I also, to me, there is the element of it happened in New York City. Maybe the world's greatest surgeon for these injuries was here. He was able to get it within 12 hours of the injury happened. Right. And so there's a lot of things. And again, way over my skis on even guessing about medical stuff. But unlike other Achilles tears like Durant or Halliburton, where there was clearly something going on with the calf strains repeatedly leading into it, Tatum's was a fluke snap out of nowhere thing that he's talked about that no doctor has been able to tell him why it happened. There wasn't anything leading into it. Does that make the repair? I have no idea. But his thing seems to be very unique. And what is certainly unique is that he's excellent again already. Now, he's not vintage Tatum. But he is definitely in. He wasn't last night. Well, last night, he turned the ball over too much and was inefficient. But he still did these other things. 20 minutes. 20 minutes. The minutes he's playing. And since he came back, there's two guys in the league giving you 20, 10, and 5. Him and Joker. Like that and he is averaging. I'm not taking shots here. But he's averaging more minutes per game this season than Wimby. Like he is already like he is even when you incorporate his like, you know, build up. He's now he's on no restriction. The only restriction he has is one that doesn't apply anymore. No back to backs. Tonight's they're only back to back. They're going to have the rest of the way. And I really do wonder what he will look like, Brew, with now this week off he's going to get in between the regular season, during the play in time before the playoffs start. Yeah, he's playing great. I mean, like he is playing at an all-star level right now. And I think he's not ready. He's not what he was. The explosiveness isn't quite there. So he couldn't create as much space like last night. But he's clearly showing you he can be a number two guy on a championship team. And that's what the Celtics need right now. Because J. Luke Brown is the number one guy. And so if you're a Celtics fan, you're certainly encouraged. By the way, Tate, there's an element of a mental hurdle to that, too. If you've been the number one option since you were probably deuce's age, all through Duke, you're the number one option. Immediately in the Celtics, you're the number one option. I don't think he'd ever come off the bench in his career. No, but his first year with Duke. You had Kyrie. His first year. And that first. But you can accept that. This is a guy that's already in the league, is a star. But I get what you're saying. But he seems to have accepted it. We're like, LeBron took a step back. He took a step back, too. Well, I think it's smart they're not making a big deal out of it. They're not coming out and saying, yeah, Jalen's our number one guy or anything. He's been so great that if they don't win the East, they'll actually get criticized. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but I think that would have never said that. Three weeks ago, four weeks ago. But who's going to criticize them? I mean, they're the heavy favorites to win the East. But I don't think we would. We know from where I'm from before. But I don't think Boston Media would. You don't? Oh, Boston Media? So far with Tatum? Hold on. Are you saying Tatum will get criticized or the team will get criticized? The team. He's saying the team. Yeah. Not Tatum. Well, they'll be disappointed. People. They're expected to win the East. But I don't think it's like, I think you're overstating it a little. Because I give a lot of respect to Detroit and the Knicks. If they lose to the Knicks again in round two, I agree. They will get killed. Yeah. Even if it's not directed at Tatum. I don't think it'll be directed at Tatum. All right. Head out to Golden State. Lakers win. Steph Sat. LeBron scored a bunch of points. Smart. And Jackson Hayes supposed to be back tonight against the Suns. Do you think LeBron can carry the Lakers past Houston? We did this version of this question earlier. A lot of optimism on the table. The highest we got was 15%. Well, if I said, you know what? 15% chance it rains, you're going to pack an umbrella. Probably not. Actually, we're going to have Dusty's rain pants. You were only 15%. Brew was at 10% to 15%. I didn't give a number. That's a public 15 too. Privately, we're at like 25. Yeah, so I don't. But I'd want to watch it. Well, yeah. Because if he steals game one and Houston dysfunction, which has been a little weird there and they get tight, it could just become interesting. But if we just did an impromptu draft right now of Lakers and Rockets players, and Luca and Reeves are not eligible to do draft. Where does LeBron go in that draft? Because we know that the only guy in the top five that's on the Lakers is LeBron. Probably top six. OK, but where does LeBron go in that draft? It's a good question. Third? My only question, I mean, he could go first. But my question about first is just his age, the deep, although Shagoons not defending. And Katie's not defending great these days. Just the idea of being more seven years. Yeah, can you do that for seven games? He's got more on his shoulders than the Durant will have. Yeah, but I look at, so if you were to, because I agree with you, it would be, everybody else would be a rocket. Right, everybody else would be a rocket. Katie, Shungoon, Thompson, Reed, and Jibari. There's no doubt about that. The reason, I think, aside from Rockets' function, the only reason that they would have the 10% to 15% chance is if LeBron would be the number one pick in that draft. And is if you think that LeBron is, because I guess I look at it as, and I know you hate this KW, but like you put LeBron and Durant's role on the Rockets. I think the Rockets are worse. No, I don't think they're worse. They're different because LeBron's not a, jumpshooter the way Katie is. But I actually think for a lot of ways, they're a lot better. And a lot of the dysfunction they've had wouldn't have happened. But LeBron, the last two years, as a 40 year old, when he has been the primary option, he's excellent. And again, and so that's, when AD was out or when Luke has been out post-Luca trade, now to be fair, a good handful of those games, he did have Austin Reaves. So he had another scoring threat there. But I would not put them at 0% against the Nuggets in round one. But with just LeBron, so they couldn't be the Nuggets with LeBron and AD. The real question, here's the interesting thing. And you see it in these last few games with LeBron. He's out there playing with House Money. I mean, nobody expects anything from them. He was in a lesser role just a week ago. And now you can see how free he's playing. If he doesn't play it, have a great game. Nobody's killing him. So he's just free. That's how he's gonna be this whole series, if they were Houston, the whole first round. Like, nobody expects them to win, which is rare for him in his career. And so all the pressure is on Houston. Cause if they don't win, shame on them. What's your sweep percentage? High. Sweep? Sweep? High. 40. Oh, 40. Okay. So I'm surprised by that. Ford, I mean, I actually, and I know this conversation was not about, you know, if Luca- I'm gonna say 30 to 40. Okay. This conversation is not about Luca coming back. I think, because I think Luca might come back, I actually think the Lakers having home court is might not be good. Oh, that's fair. You lose your first two. Yeah, you're right. You lose your first two at home. Yeah, but Luca in Texas. No, I get it. But you know what I mean? Like, if all of us, if it's like, hey, Luca's expected back for game four, it's like, all right, that'll be a home game to get one of those. It's still one. So that part of it. But no, I think they could, listen, the Lakers, I think will be a atrocious defensive. Oddly, losing Luca and Austin Reeves killed their defense. To stop them defenses. They're not gonna be able to. Eagles make a trade to help Jalen Hertz. That's next on First Things First, overtime. Thanks for hanging out with us on the OT. We've got Coach Mangini and Willie Colon out here. We have breaking news in Philadelphia, where the Packers have traded wide receiver Dontevian Wicks to the Eagles in exchange for a 2025 fifth and a 2027 sixth round pick. Also being reported that they will sign Dontevian Wicks to a one year, 12 and a half million dollar reaction. So that comes after the Hollywood Brown move that they've also made this off season. I know Willie, you and I have disagreed on this, but I think it is inevitable. And these are precursors to an AJ Brown trade post June 1st. Coach, what's your reaction to this breaking news? Yeah, when you trade two draft picks and then make the extension, you have a pretty strong feeling that guy's gonna be there. And the same thing with Hollywood Brown, they give him, I believe, five million dollars with the potential to get six and a half million. So the odds are he's gonna be there as well. I've always felt that Philadelphia was one of the best team in the league of if they saw a weakness, they really, they aggressively addressed it in the off season through free agency. And they typically want to do that, obviously prior to the draft, so that they're not forced to fill a muster in need with a draft pick that they could- So they can really take best player available. They can really take best player available. So I see this as maybe it doesn't directly mean that AJ Brown is out, but it fills a lot of needs and maybe gives them the potential to move on if they want to. And it also gives them potential to take the best player available because they've filled that void. Yeah, I think unfortunately, Danny, I'm a bend to knees. Yeah? This is like- This is it for you? Well, they're loading up, right? You get Hollywood Brown, you also gotta, you signed Elijah Moore in March, right? But I also wanna let Eagles fans know this isn't a comp. Like he's nowhere near the type of player AJ Brown is. I think that has to be stated. No doubt. But I've been at this desk set at time after time. AJ Brown makes the Eagles better. He makes them dangerous. When you lose AJ Brown, you lose that fear. And right now, it feels like now you can say, all right, if AJ Brown's going, Devontae Smith is now your true number one, you can throw wicks at two, and then you can build from there, Hollywood Brown as your three. And the Eagles still are a relevant, competent outfit with that core. But I don't think anything's gonna happen to AJ Brown till after June 1st. Yeah, so the money piece of it for AJ Brown, just had it here so that we can edit exactly. Trading AJ Brown before June 1st cost the Eagles 43 million bucks as a dead cap hit, versus just 16 million if he's traded after June 1st. So that's why he's, so this is not gonna be something that happens April 23rd during the draft. But to your point, if you know you're doing it in June, but the next time you could sign players or get players in April in the draft, you wanna have as much positional flexibility there, I expect AJ Brown to be a patriot the first week of June. Yeah, I don't have a total conviction that he's gone because the Eagles have said and historically have been willing to keep a lot of good players. And to add, we're not talking about adding players of AJ Brown's caliber to Willie's point, but those are solid players. And if you improve that wide receiver room, now you feel like you've got an extremely strong room, maybe that's the approach you're going with. But doesn't it, and I don't mean to cut you off, Coach, but like two draft picks, albeit late round picks, fifth and future sixth, and 12 and a half million. Feels like a lot for a third or fourth wide receiver. Right, but now you're talking about $12 million in dead money this year, and that $46 million total doesn't go away, it just gets pushed off into the next year. So you're losing $46 million of availability to make your team better over the next two years and losing a really good player. So to say that it's definite, I just don't have that conviction. Do I think that it may be the best decision for everybody for him to have a new home? Yeah, I've felt that way for a long time, but the Eagles don't always follow that pattern. Yeah, and I want to be clear, I do not think this makes the Eagles better for this year. I think that this is an acknowledgement that losing AJ Brown, adding Hollywood Brown and Dantevian Wicks, getting whatever future draft capital they can get for AJ Brown, plus the money that gets freed up, and just not having to deal with it again. Yeah, I know you always rolled your eyes at it because AJ Brown seemed to be supported. It just seems like they didn't want to go through it again and sell as high as they can on the asset that is AJ Brown. Yeah, but I also think like you going to this year knowing that you have one more year of guaranteed money designated to Jalen Hertz, right? If you keep AJ Brown, you now say, all right, who's the culprit? Is it Jalen Hertz or is it AJ Brown? And if it is Jalen Hertz, you say AJ Brown, you were right. We may have a problem out of quarterback. You know what I mean? So there's waves going into the season with an open lens. And there is the thought process of addition by subtraction. So if the problems in the locker room are so great that they don't think they can overcome it for another year, then yeah, you may have to bite the bullet and move forward. Well, and remember there's that ESPN piece that came out about Jalen Hertz, you know, a week or two ago when you and I were doing the show. And a lot of the reporting or interpretation around that was this is sending a public message to Jalen Hertz. They're like, hey, pressure's on. There's not a lot of future guarantees here. You trade AJ Brown, okay, it's on you. I assume they will get a future first round's pick for AJ Brown. So then they would have to make the deal less of. So then you would have, you know, let's just say it's New England. You'd have your first round pick and New England's first round pick for next year's draft to either load up around Jalen Hertz or potentially get ready to replace Jalen Hertz if you needed. So this is another, this is a big year for Jalen Hertz, obviously. And in fairness to AJ Brown, he sent public messages to Jalen Hertz all last season and the year before. He's not being subtle. He was ahead of the curve, I guess, for the organization if that's the... Yeah, there's a little bit of a shooting the messenger here thing, right? Sorry, we're sending you to Foxborough, but you were right. Yeah, and then we're gonna send a public message now. So tough business. Let's go to Jacksonville though. We're reports now. Travis Hunter is gonna be a cornerback. Coach, I guess you maybe wanna take a victory lap. Oh, coach was big on this? Even though I hate this story, go ahead. I don't think it has to be a victory lap, but let's see what was said. I don't know if we have that available. Okay, wow. Back in the second line or not. Really? You know, my feeling with the whole Travis Hunter thing is that he should start on defense, play defense, and then situationally, play him on offense, third down, red zone, two minute, then you can control his rest and you can control him in the most high impact situations. I gotta say, I'm kind of proud of you, because that's a very me move. Why? Look how right I was. Roll the tape. Yeah. So thank you, John, about you. I don't even look how right I was. It was the right decision that should have been made a while ago, because it is true. You get to control offensively what you wanna do where you can't defensively, you're always responding. So if he works on defense first, then as an organization, you can absolutely control what situations he can impact the offense on. Yeah, I mean, I like the decision by the Jaguars, because I think it takes the circus out of the situation. And I think this man only played seven games. Now we're talking about a knee issue. So now we're talking about durability, which is a problem. And on top of that, if you're looking at his job, like they expect him to be in an elite corner. If you're in an elite corner, that's a heavy job. I mean, you're gonna get some Justin Jeffersons in the world, the Jamar Chase. To Coach's point, all attention need to be on that, because you have to study tendencies and how they attack you and how they attack your defense. It's hard to be that elite corner if you now have to worry about motions and where you need to be in reference to spacing. I like the fact that the Jags chose winning over trying to debunk the Neyers here. It's like, oh, we have a two-way player who could be this and that. Yeah, he brought a lot of hope. But to Coach's point, it wasn't realistic, right? I think we fell in love because Deion did it one day. Why can't Travis Hunter? Because Deion was a generational all-world player. Travis Hunter looked like that in college, but this is a different dog at an elite level. Here comes this nutty-bangled Danny. Okay, okay. All right, listen, I do love offense, but that's not, maybe it's fair. How about having a little conviction? You're a new general manager. Glad to know you're the young guy. You make this hyper-aggressive trade to trade up from five to two. You say this is a player who can change the sport. You don't trade up from five to two for a cornerback. You do when you're coming off a knee injury. Okay, but he, let's show what they did last year in the seven games that Travis Hunter played. Seven games. He played more offense than defense. And so now they're flipping it off of a sample size of seven games and they're treating it like he was a failure on offense. He wasn't. Last year's work-class of receivers was good, right? Technic Millen was very good. Ibuka was very good. Luther Burton came on. On a per game basis, Travis Hunter was fairly productive for a rookie. To abandon your plan that you traded a future first for after seven games, you should have never drafted the kid in the first place. So yeah, I disagree. They're not saying he can't play both ways. They're saying that the most effective way for him to play both ways is this way. And I don't think it's a lack of conviction. After you get someone and you get to know them and you understand their strengths and weaknesses, you may have to adjust the way that you use them. And I think it would be silly if they felt as a staff that this is the best way to use them to continue to use them the other way just to justify where they drafted them. That to me is just- It's asinine. Yeah, it's just putting good money after bad. I mean, I apologize. No, it's okay. Coach hit it on the head. Like, this defense set a standard of getting takeaways. If they wanna play with relevant football in January, they don't need him to be the lead player. Have some conviction, Jaguars. Don't be scared. We are 13 days away from the 2026 NFL draft. We wanna bring you inside the OT War Room where every day we talk the biggest storylines ahead of the big day. Eric Mangini, three Super Bowl rings. Willie Cologne has his. And we're talking about a team with a lot of rings of their own, frankly. This is gonna be a little bit more straightforward, gentlemen. We're just pretending we're inside the Chiefs' War Room. Okay. Because it's a unique time for the Chiefs. They have two first round picks, the ninth and 29th overall. This is the first time entering a draft, holding a top 10 pick since 2013. You remember they traded up to the 10th overall pick to take a guy by the name of Patrick Wilhomes. That one worked out pretty, pretty well for them. So, Coach, maybe you'll say this is crazy and dismiss it out of hand. It would not be the first time. I would think there is extra pressure on Brett Beach to nail this draft because of how rare of an opportunity it is for them to be drafting this high and have this much draft capital when they have Patrick Wilhomes. Yeah, I don't think there's extra pressure on him drafting this high. And hopefully they won't be in this position again. But what it does do for a guy like Brett Beach is it gives him a lot of ammunition. So maybe it's not saying it not. Maybe it's trading back and getting some other picks and trying to fill multiple holes because unfortunately for the Chiefs right now, there are some holes in a lot of different areas that they can address. So I don't think it's necessarily the pressure of we may not be here again as much as it is, hey, how can we maximize this extra capital that we haven't had historically and really turn it into something special? How do you view it? Well, I'm gonna be honest. If you're sitting at number nine, the biggest need for me when it comes to the Chiefs is you have to fill some holes defensively. They lost a lot of key guys in the secondary. We talk about McDuffie, Watson Cook, Brian Cook went to the Bengals. But I think from the Edge Rush standpoint, that's where you really have to hit the Chiefs. Only got 35, required 35 sacks last season. That's not good. So if you're a Spag, you need somebody who's fast, violent, who's free. And that's why you need to possibly trade up coach and go get a guy by the name of David Bailey out of Texas Tech. I love this young man. He's ferocious, man. He gets after, he made a big leap after he left Stanford and landed in Texas Tech, had 14 sacks on the season. I think if you Spag, you need a rush that can have an immediate impact. I believe in David Bailey can do that for you. So coach, you mentioned traded back. I'm going to trade up. You mentioned trading up and defense. Do you, any direction on like offense defense or back or forward? Look, I agree they could use help at rushing the passes. They were 20 second overall. But that hole in the secondary, it's huge. Those three guys that left came in together in 2022 and have accounted for over 8,000 snaps in that secondary. So it's not just the production, but it's all the scheme work that they had together, all the reps that they built up together, that level of communication. And now you're trying to fill that hole with a safety that they picked up, which has been a little bit of a journeyman. They've got a young corner that they kind of like, who may be able to plug in as one of those starters. But three starters in the secondary is a gigantic gap. All right, so a war room is a place for debate. People throw out ideas. I'm going to throw one at you guys, because you guys have both kind of highlighted the defensive side of the ball. There's no question. You trade away, McDuffy. Chris Jones is getting older. You mentioned the pass rush production. I feel like you owe it to Mahomes with the ninth pick to say, we're going to give you something on offense. He has signed this team friendly contract. He is the best player in the history of your franchise. He's on his way to being arguably the best player in the history of the sport. He has not had a great statistical regular season since 2022. He was obviously unbelievable in 2023 playoffs when he won Super Bowl MVP. But if we just look at the production that they have gotten, we can start with the wide receivers. Xavier Worthy was injured. He has had bursts of looking good. But since the Tyree kill trade, this is the level of production they've gotten from wide receivers. Rishi Rice, he looks like a number one. But do you fully trust Rishi Rice off the field to be able to stay on the field and maximize? Why is he being cleared? No, I understand. But what he has done on the field has been inconsistent. And then you have these issues off the field. And now, if you also look at it, they dressed Kenneth Walker. But it's kind of amazing that they haven't had a 1,000 yard receiver since Tyree kill and a 1,000 yard rusher since Karim Hunt. I would think we will address defense with 29, but with nine, whether it's Karnell Tate, whether it's Kenyan Sadiq, whether it is Jordan Tyson. We're going to give Patrick Mahomes a young weapon to build with. Yeah, I'm with coach, man. There's so much need on defensive side. You didn't do it. I'm not sweating. All right. Well, I just listened. The reason why the Chiefs went to the Super Bowl wasn't just off the shoulders of Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce and company. It was because that defense was elite. That's secondary to what coach is talking about and how they played to get the brand of football that Spax can go to work with was elite, right? But does it strike you like a team that traded away Lagerius, Snead, and Trent McDuffie, and let these guys go? They seem to believe that they can develop secondary plays. Like, are they really going to turn around and then use first round draft capital that? I just believe Patrick Mahomes can erase some deficiencies. It's hard to erase deficiencies on defense and the ball because so much equity has to be built in playing together and being an immediate impact player like David Bailey or Caleb Downs if he happens to slide to number nine. So I think you just have to address the needs defensively first. And you say developing players. There's no guarantee that number one is going to hit and play right away and be impactful. You're hoping that's the case. And when you look at this, do you really want to become the Cincinnati Bengals? When you've got a quarterback like they have, to whom much is given, much is expected, and you have to carry the offense. And maybe your receivers aren't the elite receivers, but the expectation is that because of how well you play, you make everybody else around you better. And organizationally, they're in a position to compete for a championship every year. So they need to address things holistically as opposed to saying, hey, we got to pour all these resources in the offense. But I completely understand what you're saying. They don't have a great, maybe Rice is a number one, but having two legitimate receivers would be fantastic. The tight end situation, getting another young tight end, knowing that we're at the end here with Travis Kelsey, that's not a terrible idea either. But holistically, the biggest hole is probably in the secondary. The second biggest hole is probably pass rusher. They've traded Peters. They've traded McDuffie. Snead leaves in free agency. It would be very interesting to me if they then turned around and used one of those draft picks immediately to fill that void. And you mentioned producing early. Receivers have been producing early. Like Ted McMillan in Ibuka last year, Malik Neighbors the year before, Garrett Wilson, Jamar Chase. We have a lot of examples now of receivers coming in and being immediate contributors. But Willie, you went through the draft process, obviously. And we wanted to kind of give you the assignment of, this is a lot of resources, a top 10 pick and another pick in the first round. What is the ideal outcome if you're Brad Veach, the perfect draft for the Chiefs? Well, I think realistically what we've been talking. You attack defensive needs, but you also have needs on the offensive line. You got to address two. You lost Joann Taylor. Joann Taylor, who's now just signed with the Atlanta Falcons. But if you have an opportunity to go get a young guy by the name of Blake Miller out of Clemson, who I think is phenomenal. Streamly athletic finishes at the point of attack. Can Ben, can run. Like he's one of those true offensive guys that he's just nasty, right? He reminds me a lot of Swartz with the, and who has the other left tackle that came that. Mitchell Swartz? Yes. For the Chiefs? Right. But I like this kid because what you see out of him, man, he not only a finisher, but he can finish on a second level. He can run. There's not too much he can do. And if need be, he could play on the left side of the line too. So if you need to help Patrick Mahomes, go get him some protection up front. He's your guy. So that would be this pick, the latter half of the first round. So you would do pass, rush early, and then offensive line late. David Bailey, man. So that's trading up, right? You assume that is a trade up move for you. I think it's a legitimate need. Like you only have 35 sacks. Coach talked about it on the back end, but you need somebody that can help Chris Jones. Like Chris Jones is, I mean, he's double team, triple team. They need somebody to take some of that pressure off him. You get another edge rusher who's violent and can make plays and get home to the quarterback. That helps out that defensive line. We see how this conversation is going. So we've talked about quarterback. We've talked about safety. We've talked about right receiver. We've talked about offensive line. There's so many different positions. That's why you start saying, hey, do we trade back and try to add some extra picks to this mix? And the debate goes on deep into the draft process. I remember my first year, we were talking about DeBerkshaw Ferguson and then Vernon Davis. And we discussed that up until the night before the draft. And at the end, I really wanted Vernon. At the end of the day, we had such a big hole at offensive line at left tackle that we went with DeBerkshaw Ferguson. But these conversations are ongoing. And what you feel is the biggest need and what Andy feels the biggest need, it's a constant debate. And at the end of the day, you're trying to just get to consensus of who's going to add the most value. And my guess is the defensive backs coach is arguing for a secondary player. Every defensive coach is arguing for a player, yes. So have Mahomes's voice be like, I want a receiver. I mean, whose voice matters. His voice has to matter a little bit. He doesn't want to be picking himself off the turf with a bad knee, either. All right, that's good. Or having to score 50. But we'll bring a receiver in to the war room next week. Greg Jennings will be here next week talking best weapons in the draft. And at some point, his evaluation of Carnell Tate. Gentlemen, this weekend I will be parenting in the morning and watching golf in the afternoons. Rory McElroy, got the monkey off his back. Last year, completing the career grand slam, seems to have unburdened him at Augusta after a lot of chokes and top five finishes and near misses. Started today, 300 through four, 800. What a great leaderboard. Patrick Reed, a former champion. And you know what would be really cool? Justin, Rose, and Rory were in the playoff last year, if that was relevant again on Sunday. You got a favorite coach? Look, I think once McElroy got over the hump last year, now the floodgates are open. I think he's going to pull away again. Yeah, I think Rory hasn't shot. I think it was impressive. I think the open is 67. He had five out of 14 fairways. But got out of all the bad situations. Like, when you start watching that, man, this is why you fall in love with the Masters this time of year. He also, he's clearly comfortable. After the round, he was like, what are you going to do? After the round, he was like, I'm going to go into the Champions lounge and have a cocktail. A whole different perspective after you win one. Going to the Champions lounge, put on my green jacket and have a cocktail. Go get one, Rory.