Matt Damon

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Well, you weren't just in a trance. You were making the sound of a dripping faucet. Yeah, I was going. I don't know what I was doing there. I've been working a lot lately and I had something I had to do last night and so I'm not well rested and I feel a little high even though I've taken no substances. So just seconds ago, I was staring up at the light above us when you said, okay, Conan, do the intro and I was doing this with my mouth. It's good you're doing it again. And I wasn't doing a bit. I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just looking up at the light and making that noise and then I looked down and you were all staring at me as if I were some sort of sideshow freak. Are you okay? Are you okay? I'm not. I'm not. I think I'm okay. Are you really tired? Are you tired? Yeah, a little bit, but you never tell the audience you're tired. You've always want people thinking you just prefaced it that you were tired. Yeah, you said you were tired because you said you did something yesterday and you slept late. So like you did that. There is no audience here. I just did what Peter Sellers does as Clousell when it's one of my favorite things, but I wasn't doing it on purpose. He walks into an interrogation room and he says, you know, because there's been a kidnapping and he says, I'm here to investigate the murder. And someone goes murder and he says, who said murder? And they said, you said murder and he said, I don't say murder. And I've always loved that. It's such a funny thing. And I just did it for real. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm a little scrambled today, but that could be fun. Maybe that's going to loosen my brain a little bit and various creative juices will flow. Who can say? I'm worried about you. Are you really? Yeah. Well, also you're wearing this very cozy flannel. It almost looks like you're in PJs and that you've kind of just woken up and, you know, or you're ready for bed and that we should tuck you in or something. I don't wear flannel a lot. That is true. I should wear flannel a little more often. We're in the winter months now, which in LA means it's not 72, it's 71 degrees. So sometimes flannel is necessary. I do. I mean, come on. That's something I want to talk about. I want to see my breath at night. I want it to be cold. You never go with me on this, but I like to wear layers. And I was just on the East Coast recently doing some work there. And I was wearing these sweaters and I was dressed like an adult. I was wearing a pea coat. And I was walking around in it and I had sweaters and I would sometimes wear an overcoat. And I'd look like a gentleman. And then I come back to LA and it's time to put on my hoof farted t-shirt. Look, do I think this is a great opening segment? No, I don't. I think we've lost our way. It started with me staring at a light going, we started at a deficit. Yeah, exactly, which we inherited from the Biden administration. But to be fair, you can't blame me even though it's a year into my podcast administration. This is what I inherited when I started this venture five years ago. Are you okay? What are you doing? People, people, people, people, people, people. Now you're touching the sides of the mic and saying, people, people, people. Okay, I see. Okay, you think that because I set such a low bar that now you're free to just completely go. Can we just do, yeah, oh, he's using his microphone as a shaver. Yeah. That's cool. No, no, no, I think we're showing such disrespect for the people who am I distorted through this glass? Yes, you are. Yeah, it looks like a Dal E sketch. Yeah, look at us. We're bringing our A game today. Well, I respect our audience. They pay a lot to listen to this podcast. Do they pay a lot? No, they don't pay anything. Okay. Well, then what are we worried about? We're giving them what they're worth. You get what you pay for, listeners. You got exactly what you pay for. No, we're using, they have precious life. Once again, I ran into someone on the street today here in Larchmont who said that they were just listening to the podcast. We are borrowing chunks of people's life that they will never get back. Also, I think this might be the last episode of the year. So it's okay if our tanks are a little empty. No, it's not. We have to, now you've put a whole new level of pressure on it. Don't play me. Go out with a bang. Don't play me. You started this episode making dripping noises. Clearly it wasn't ready in you as the maestro behind this whole operation. Should have said, he's not ready. Let's wait. Or maybe we could have had a huddle. Or maybe you could have asked me, are you okay off mic? You said, are you okay on mic? Who does that? What kind of doctor are you? I thought it made good content. So for some people, this is the last episode of the year. For others, it's the first episode. Oh, no. We can't start this way. Oh, God. No, can we do a better? Yeah, we can do better. Let's do better. I'll say something funny. Well, can I just say, I don't think of the New Year's as the New Year. I think of fall as the beginning of the year. No, no, no, that's because you're still a child who gets a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and puts on your short pants and goes off to school. That's good. And I mean college. That's good though. Let's start again, because I think we can do better. Yeah. Are we starting again for real? Like we're ditching this? I don't even know what's real and what's not anymore. Oh my God. This is just a weird, I could count a weird and some sort of weird Bermuda triangle. It could be because we were off for so long, we're having trouble finding our footing. That could be it. That wasn't the case yesterday. We were hitting. Were we hitting? Yeah. We were like, okay. No, it was yesterday. I thought it was yesterday. I thought it was yesterday. It's pretty good. We were hitting. Yesterday was actually very good. Was it? Yeah. Since when do you have standards? What are you doing? I don't have standards. That's the problem is even I think this is bad and my standards are really low. I think right now and this maybe this is, yes, you do think. Oh my God. This is a good thing for people to hear that their heroes struggle as well. Oh, I think more twice have we ever ditched a take on something. We almost always keep things. Yeah. Yeah. No, you don't want to mention it. I don't know. Whatever. What's this now? What are you saying? I don't need the hook. Now I'm taking it. What are you doing? Why did you? What are you doing? I was getting, I was pulling this whole thing to, this is awful. I woke up from my primordial slumber and started to pull it back together again and then you mutter and reference something and look at you and you make noises with your mouth but no words. I'm sorry. No, no. It's blaming us for this. Yeah. Yeah. You're the one who started it. It trickles down. I'm back and I'm better than ever. Okay. Hey, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, the podcast that delivers every single time with never a false start, never a missed opportunity. Sona, Movesestian has joined me. Yes, hi. I'm here. Yeah, you are here and Matt Gorley, how are you? I'm well. Thank you. You look fantastic. Hey, Soto, you thank you. I'm doing the best. I can. I'm wearing a flannel shirt today. Yeah. It's cozy. It's very nice. I bought it just down the street. I'd say the name of the store but maybe that's cheating. I don't know. Give them a free plug. Ferity. They make a really good sweater. Oh, I like their stuff. They have very good stuff and I'm a regular customer but that's not the point. I'm here to talk about what I think is the topic on everyone's lips right now which is the holidays. Hey. Because this is going to air when, Adam? January 5th for most people. Yeah, that's still the holidays or is it? This is so confusing. It's not the holidays. It's okay. Can we go back to the inept one? No. No. No. You said rap? Yeah. Oh my God. I thought I had saved it and then I said let's talk about the holidays forgetting that this comes out January 5th when everyone's in a deep depression. Oh, jeez. And just the mere mention of holidays makes you want to eat a gun. My birthday is January 7th, by the way. Trust me. Every year at your birthday, I'm excusing myself to try and end it all. Oh my God. Hey, it's almost the year of my anniversary of my house burning down. Oh my God. That's right. Let's make it worse. And your parents. Let's make it worse. I'm timely passing. Am I time? My parents passing your anniversary? Oh my God. Did you know what? We got through all of that and then the greatest tragedy of all hit us, a very bad opening segment. That's worse than all of those things. And yet we're still here. Oh my God. And I love you, Sona. And I love you, Borley. And together, we're going to make this year. This is a great moment. Let's do it. Yeah. Okay. 2026, it can't get any worse. Yeah. My guest today is an actor you know from such films as Goodwill Hunting, The Martian and the Born Identity. Now you can see him in the new Netflix movie, The Rip. What can I say? He's a superstar. Yeah. He's an international mega star. He also is a lovely gentleman. Matt Damon, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. And we have a lot to talk about today. And I just I wanted to start with, I think I've brought this up to you before, but not on microphone. We didn't monetize it. Those are the only conversations that are worthwhile. I want to sell some ads. Are you going to talk about the new Buick? What is this? Matt and I are very excited about the new Buick. Hyundai. No, my brother took me to a bar years ago. And this was short. This isn't too long. It might have been a year or two after Goodwill. Goodwill. Goodwill Hunting or maybe early born. It was before that. It was late. It was in the 90s though. Okay. It was in the 90s. I'm in town. We're both. Wasn't it like Christmas night? It was Christmas night. And my brother said, Hey, we could hang out with our is my brother, Luke. We could hang out with our parents or we could blow this place and go. All they did was you know, create us. We could go to this really cool bar I know called the B side and the B side lounge. And I said, Yeah, yeah, you know, screw the elderly. And so we get, we go over there and I walk into this very cool establishment and just like a really cool place to hang bar. And you're sitting there and because Ben and I had had the exact same conversation. Exactly. You guys were escaping. And so I just see you sitting at the sitting there and I go over and you couldn't have been nicer. We're chatting. I think we had briefly met before, but not really like talked. And within minutes, you and I are talking about Flannery O'Connor. That's what I remember. And I remember thinking, I don't know that there are many movie stars that would start talking to me about Flannery O'Connor. You know what I mean? I thought it was very, I was like, this guy is there are a lot of people who read books though. No, there aren't. There aren't. I test a lot of movie stars. Most of them can't read. I can't read at all. Yeah. Yeah. Tom Hanks cannot read. He can type. But he can't read. He can type. But it's just, he's like a monkey at a typewriter. Yeah. And also means so many huge stars can't, you know, Liam Neeson can't tell time. And I'll ask him, Hey, Liam, what time is it? And he shows me his watch and says, what do you think? Unbelievable. But you're scared to answer because of the way you said it. You have a certain set of skills, but not telling my time. You don't have all the skills. You know, you're lacking some. By the way, Ben and I were extras in a movie called The Good Mother that Liam Neeson was, was the star of in the, in the 80s. And we were still in high school. And, and I think it still exists in the movie. They were shooting in Harvard Square and we went and we were extras. And we walked by Liam Neeson. A very, like an adolescent or teenage, you know, Ben and Matt walked by a very young Liam. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was as close as I ever got to him. But yeah, I'm a big fan. What you just said reminds me that you guys, you know, were good friends long before you became famous and you were working together and kind of on a mission to make it in this business. And you had a, I've read before that you had a bank account together. A Bay Bank's account. Remember Bay Bank's? Of course I do. So, so we had a Bay Bank, a shared Bay Bank's account that we would put money in that we had made professionally. So if we got any part like that extra work, for instance, you get, you know, 50 bucks or 100 bucks, depending if it was a union job, you get 100. And that money would go into the, our shared account. And that account we could only use for auditions in New York, where, you know, we take the bus or, or back there they didn't have the Pan Am shuttle or whatever the train, get down to New York, you know, walk in, you know, which, you know, took however long, five hours to get down there, you know, you, you walk into the place somewhere in midtown and, you know, in three minutes they're like, okay, thanks. Which is, we used to call it getting okay, thanks. Because you go there and beat your chest and pull your hair out and sob and they go, okay, thanks. And you're done. And then you go all the way back to Boston. But, but we had this account, we could use the money for that or we could use the money for video games at 1001, which was the arcade on Mass Ave. Yep. Yep. Or, you know, when we got older, if we could find anyone to buy us beer. So those were the three uses for the account. You were very responsible young men. But the, you know, talking about like intentionality, the account, the code to the account was River P, because River Phoenix was an actor that we really admired. He was our age, and he was getting the kind of parts that we wanted to play. Yeah. And so that was our secret code to get into our shared bank account. It's interesting. I don't know about you, but I think about a lot. And I have, wistfully, about early experiences. Before anybody knows who I am, you know, I'm headed to something to audition and someone says, well, you should have makeup, because it might be a camera test. And so I went to a drug store and purchased makeup at a counter. And the woman said, what is it you're trying to do? And I said, they said I need makeup. And then sitting in my, this is out here in LA, sitting in my 1977 beat up Isuzu Opal and putting it on myself with a rear view mirror and then going in and being terrible. But she told you lipstick and blush. Yeah, they were like, that Kabuki guy was awful. Did you see Devine? You look like Marlon Brando in the Island of Dr. Moreau. What is up with that kid? Yeah, it was a taco commercial. Why was he doing, why was he, but I think about those things all the time. And I kind of, it's funny, I have an affection for that whipper snapper. And I don't know if you, I mean, you and Ben must have so many memories of being an extra. And they're telling you chew more slowly or whatever. You have no lines. Get the fuck away from the craft service. Yeah, get away. That's not extras. It's like, it can be demeaning work. But we were interested in it and we love being on sets. And it was like, we were thrilled to be there. And yeah, I mean, it was a lot of, I mean, you know, starting out in the business is, I think it's, I think, my nephew's an actor, it's different now in the sense that they're allowed to put themselves on tape now. It was a different, auditioning was like, you had to go show up at the appointed time, you walked into the room and you had one shot at it. And that was it. And now, the younger actors are allowed to kind of, all actors allowed to video themselves and work on it. And they can cure it and get it just right. Get it to and say, this is the best representation of me for this part, which is a very different thing. And, you know, there's a lot of humiliation in the starting out, as you know, like those things. I find I'm continually humiliated now. Well, there's a lot of humiliation, Joe. It's a very, hey, it's a very vulnerable thing to do. You know, I just started on, I was being humiliated. And then I kind of liked it. And then I turned it into a career. When I did the Rainmaker with Coppola, like 30 years ago, he did this amazing thing every morning. You know, when a new actor would come, he would, he would go down to the base camp where everybody gets ready in the morning. And in the parking lot, like right in the, you know, where all the kind of trailers are, he would gather all of the actors and he would play theater games, right? Like soundball, for instance. And soundball is this game you play in kind of acting school where, where I throw a ball to you and I have to make a noise, like bloop or whatever. And when you, and it's an invisible ball, obviously, it's not a real ball. It's, it's a space ball. It's an air ball. And you catch it and you have to make my sound bloop. And then you have to make a new sound bleep and you throw it to someone else. And it is the dumbest thing in the world. But Francis would do this with all the, I'm talking like Mickey Rourke. I'm talking about hardcore, like very serious people. I'm picturing the cast of the Godfather now. No, it was James Conn. It was, I know, I know, but it was John Voight. It was like these wonderful actors, right? And, and, and the idea what, and Francis would do it and he would start and he was this iconic, you know, we, the Godfathers, the Apocalypse now, I mean, you know, the conversation, on and on and on, all of these brilliant movies. And the whole point was to kind of level set everybody at this is a place where you can be completely foolish and vulnerable. And I'm going to do it too. Right. And, and because that's a part of it, it's like, you really got to put yourself out there if you're doing it right. And, and so there are the requisite amount of humiliations that come, that accompany that, even as you get successful, like, like, you know, if you're doing a tough scene, you might have to break a lot of eggs to get the omelet, you know what I mean? Right. And, and you have to do that in front of everybody. Yeah. I, I'm thinking about the list of people, directors that you've worked with. And it's an insane Coppola Scorsese. Help me out here. There's a lot. There's Eastwood, Eastwood, Spielberg, Chris Nolan. And, you know, the one I'm most interested in kind of is, I mean, they're all iconic directors and amazing, but I don't have a sense of what Eastwood would be like as a director. I've always heard it was like one take or he's quick. Yeah. The very first day. So I, the first time, I worked with them twice and the first time was Invictus. So I was playing a South African rugby player. Yep. And that's a really tough accent to do. So I spent six months, there's this great dialect coach named Tim Monic, very famous in our world. And he's wonderful. And I've known him for a very long time. And Tim would come, I was living in Miami at the time and he would come and I had a little office over the garage and he would come in from nine to five Monday through Friday, we would work on this accent because South Africans speak English. It's like their tongue does the exact opposite thing that ours, like if I say, I'll be right back. If you say it, you think about what your tongue's doing? They say, Obi-Dot-Bic. Oh yeah. Okay. And you go, what the fuck just happened in my mouth, right? So it was very hard to do. This is why you're an actor and I am not. But we took like, you know, it was a long, it was a lot of work and fun and great. And I showed up and I'm ready. It's like my chance to work with, you know, one of my heroes. And the very first take, you know, I did it. And meanwhile, I've done this so many thousands of times, I have, you know, a number of different ways that I'm thinking of maybe doing the scene. So he goes, cut, print, move on. And I go, hang on, hang on, hang on. Boss, you know, I, you want to, you know, I wanted to do another one. I mean, yeah. I wasn't even in costume. That was like, that was the first one. Like, you want to do it. And he goes, why? You want to waste everybody's time. Oh my God. And I went, no, I guess we're moving on. And it was one take. He was holding a gun. But no, no, but there was a kindness in it. No, no, I, I, he wasn't, he wasn't, he was a lovely guy. And, and what was really interesting is the second movie I did with him, there was this, the kind of, it builds to a head with this, a scene with me and this nine year old kid. And the nine year old kid was a non-actor. And, and we had done one take for everybody, all through Invictus, Morgan Freeman, you know, all, everybody gets one take. We must have done 40 takes with this little boy because, because he, we were trying to get this. It was this kind of huge moment in the film and, and we were trying to get this stuff out of him. And Clint was right next to me in, you know, like we were right next to the camera together, just, just working with this boy. And so it was like his, in his whole mentality was you, your crew will, will, will go to the ends of the earth for you if, as long as you're not taxing them on every shot, right? When, when we need to get in there, we get in there. But, you know, for the most part, we can, you know, professional actors are going to show up with something good. And we keep the, keep the momentum. I had a chat with Clint Eastwood once briefly, and I told him how much unforgiven meant to me. It's an American movie that was a huge hit, box office hit. And it's a very European film. And he just sort of asked me, what do you mean? And I said, because it's everyone's trying to do the right thing and making it worse, which is very much life. And that is not a kind of classic American movie formula. That movie is magical to me. And and he hit me. No, he's a good unforgiven story that you can cut out if it's too boring for people. But I thought it was really interesting. There was a scene in Invictus, I think I had to give a speech or something to the guys in the locker room or something like that. And we were shooting it the following Tuesday or whatever. And I said to him, Hey, boss, you know, that scene on Tuesday, do you mind if I tinker with the dialogue? I've been working on it, but I think I can figure out a kind of a better way to say it. And he was, yeah, sure, go ahead. And so I came back and on Tuesday, we shot the scene and we did one take and he printed it and moved on. But he came up to me and said, I thought you were going to change it and I said, yeah, it's a funny story. I go, I wrote it and I rewrote it all weekend. I wrote it probably 27 drafts. And then I got it perfect. And I looked back and it was exactly the same as my original was. And he laughed and he goes, yeah, he goes, you know, that happened to me once. And I go, really? He goes, I had a script and I loved it. And I, you know, I had it. And I goes, I worked for five years on this thing. And he goes, I wasn't getting better. And I couldn't figure it out. And he goes, and then I went back and to the original script that I had, I pulled it out of the drawer and I read it. And I called the writer that day and said, I'm making your script exactly as you wrote it. And I said, no way, what movie? And he said, unforgiven. Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, it is, it's all there on the page. I mean, I've looked at the script. It's all there on the page. And but it's, but it's sometimes we get in that head space where we go, I bet I could, you know, it would be, you know what I mean? And then, of course, yeah, but it was a great lesson in kind of returning to what attracted you to it in the first place, right? Like the elemental aspect, that thing that really pulled you in, like, you know, is the reason you're doing it. And so too much tinkering, you can, you can kind of get away from that. Yes, you can. Yeah. It's, this is really stupid, but you're saying very well-spoken, intelligent things. And then I come in with, but for years on the late night talk show, people would have a good idea and then they'd bring it down to the floor and it would be different from what they told me. And they would say, yeah, I started thinking about it. And now I would always say, when you overthink, you start to stink. And actually, that's great. That's, you know, I know, but I'm a doctor, Susan. It is a doctor. It's not, Matt. It's not great. It's not. But couldn't I have, I would do it in that, in like, I have a really smart thing to say, but I intentionally, I think, said it in the stupidest way possible. But then it became a thing that the writers would chant sometimes. They would chant it. No, I made that up. Imagine Clint Eastwood saying that. That's actually great. It'd be nice to see. I think about one of your movies a lot. It's more than one movie. It's a series, but the Born Identity because I do a lot of international travel for work and I'm constantly going through airports now where you don't even have to show. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Yeah. Listen. Comparing yourself to Jason Bourne. I get it a lot. People in airports, internationally, say you're very Jason Bourne-esque. And then they see me run and they go, forget what I just said. And then they put on their glasses and look at my face and go, really forget. No, what I've noticed is that I'll go through airports now and you don't even have to show your passport. It's all your eye scan. And I think Jason Bourne is fucked now. Because a big thing with you, with your character, was a major fight, throw down, shoot out in the streets of Paris and then instantly you're in Cairo and everyone's looking for you. He's a ghost. Yeah. He's a ghost and you've reappeared in Cairo and I'm thinking now it's just, you know, your iris. Yeah. It was kind of a couple of years ago that that started where I came back from somewhere and I had the global entry. You know, and that was already pretty easy. You go to the kiosk and you put your passport in and it reads it and takes a picture and goes, yeah, that's you. Now it's like you don't even need to pull your passport out. It's, it is. And so yeah, he would be totally screwed. Like the whole point was he had, you know, six passports and they all had different identities and he could speak all those languages and he could just become one of those guys. Now the safety deposit box has six eyes. Yeah, exactly. Eyeballs you put on, contact lenses. No, I was, and also I remember, I was talking to, I think we were interviewing Emily Blunt once and she was talking to us about a movie you guys made together where she had to run in one scene. And you said, it was her first scene where she had to run and that you called, you very kindly said, yeah, Emily, take a look. Look at yourself running and here's how you want to, because you think you're running well, but there's a way, when you think you're running well on camera, but then you look back at it, it can be tragically wrong. You know, and you know who told me that? No. Was Franca Patente, who was my co-star and born, had starred in this great German movie called Run Lola Run and she runs in that movie through the whole movie, she's Lola. And she's so badass for the whole movie. She's in these Doc Martens and she's just an awesome movie. And we were on set of Born and I had to do a running scene and she said, Thomas, the guy who directed Run Lola Run, they had been a couple for a while and she said, Thomas told me before I started doing it to go out and he videotaped me running and we looked at it because she said, you don't, you know, the only running that we see, you know, is, you know, we see Usain Bolt, we see, you know, the people who can really run and we go, that's, I must look like that. Right? When you start to run, you're, like, you just look ridiculous. Yes. Yes. And I thought I ran great. And then I looked and I was like, oh my God. It's Jerry Lewis. It really is. Like, everything. And so you start to practice, like, you know, high knees and, you know, and like, high knees and keep the arms in. And it really, and so I did say that to Emily, I'm sure, because it gives it a really help. No, she said you saved her. It was great. Then did she, she, but it's one of those things that, you know, I just, all of us in our mind, if I'm running hard, which I don't do much anymore, but if for some reason I had to run quickly, in my mind, I'm, I'm, I'm Matt Damon or I'm Tom Cruise. But I know I really am, you know, one of the big balloons that they have in front of a used car lot that's flopping around. And I shriek too as I run, which isn't helping. He figured it out early. I remember there's that great scene in Born on the Fourth of July, where he runs through the rain back, you know, before he goes off to war and like, right, he must have figured it out in like the 80s. He was ahead of everybody. Yeah. Yeah. He probably has a scientific formula aerodynamic flow chart. He runs perfectly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to talk to you because about this current movie, The Rip, which is fascinating to me, first of all, I knew nothing about the movie when I watched it. I watched it last night. And one of the things that I didn't realize is that, oh, you're in this with, I knew nothing, which is not the way you usually experience a movie these days. But someone arranged, oh, Conan can watch the movie. If you log into this, you can watch it. So I knew absolutely nothing. I knew you were in it and that's it. And it's a movie that you have made with Ben, you and Ben are in it together. And that was a surprise to me. And I thought, this is interesting. This is such a loaded situation for you guys now because in a very nice way, in a complementary way, it's this dynamic duo getting back together. But I don't know if you feel the weight of that at all when you guys work together. We did the movie Air together a few years ago that Ben directed. And he's also, we're both in it together. And we started this little studio together a few years ago. And one of the reasons that we started it, like I was watching that Beatles documentary, the Peter Jackson one, get back at the end of that documentary, there's this incredible scene when they play on the roof, right together. And it's just there, it's pure joy. You see them, you know, the cop show up and McCartney turns around, he's like, what the fuck, you know, and they're, and it's like the most joyful thing. They're all in their 20s. And then Peter Jackson put this chiron up and it said, this is the last time the Beatles played live together. Yeah. Yeah. And I was watching it. My youngest was I think 11 at the time. And she just goes, dad, why are you crying? And tears were just pouring down my fate because it was like, what, it made me so sad that these guys who were just, you know, this was it that they didn't, they couldn't get past whatever it was that wouldn't allow them to kind of keep doing it together. And I called Ben and I was like, man, because I think, you know, this was our dream and our lives from the time we were teenagers. And it was something we did together. And we wanted to do movies together. And we wrote Goodwill Hunting together and starred in it together. And, you know, all of that. And I think after that, I think we were like, oh, well, we should try to, you know, make names for ourselves individually. Right. So I think we were a little allergic to working together for a while. I mean, we're still very connected and, you know, saw each other all the time. But after a success of that magnitude, you don't want to get locked in. Exactly. Great. Well, do the movie is Ben in or okay, Ben, but where's Matt? You don't want to get locked into that. Exactly. And we had done, you know, Kevin Smith's movie dogma together right after that. So we were kind of like, all right, we should chill. And then suddenly a couple of decades went by and it was like, now we're in our fifties, we're starting this company. And it's kind of like, I don't care. It doesn't have to be a thing. It doesn't have to be a stop the presses there to get it's like, we just like working together. Yeah. And also what's evident in the movie is you guys have a connection when you have scenes together, there's a connection that you can't manufacture. It's very clear that you two really love, you're on the same wavelength. You're on the same, you're clicked in and your two characters in this, in this movie, there's a lot of tension between you. There are times where you just want to kill each other. And then as you go on, many things are revealed and you understand what their true dynamic is. But I don't know, it's just, it was something you can't, you couldn't have figured that out with an acting coach if you didn't know each other. I don't think it helps to have that kind of, you know, we also did, by the way, the last duel, another movie that I wrote with, you know, so we were trying, we, you know, we're, but yeah, no, I think that, that connection definitely obviously kind of loads every scene in a different way. I think there's the thing that happens. I know in my 20s, 30s, 40, I was very intense all the time thinking about every move. And as I've gotten older, I am much more interested in being with people that I really like, that I love making things with them and enjoying myself, because I, and it comes a little bit from a place of, oh, who cares? You know, I mean, I just want to do this. I don't want to overthink it. I just want to be with, I think you see that you start to see the, you know, you're in the second half, right? And you plan to live to 150. I hope you do. I hope we both do. So we're still in, we're still in the first step. I really don't want to live to 150. Well, if you could stay healthy, I don't know, might be, I'll be in constant pain. But yeah, that's literally the whole point of this company is to, you know, work with great people that we really want to be with. And every movie that we make through our studio is, you know, even if Ben and I aren't in it or he's directing and I'm not in it, or he, you know, we're connected around the work and trying to facilitate whoever's coming in and and kind of, do you guys give each other shit on set or in a professional environment? Do you give each other a teasing like brotherly kind of relationship? Sure. Sometimes you want another take because you might want another take, you know, that kind of thing. That's what I would do. I would, that's what I would do. Yeah, I think you're going to want another take. But look, the good thing is, you know, I think it really helped with our writing, you know, 30 years ago, Jesus, 35 years ago when we started, you know, Ben said this great thing, which was judge me for how good my good ideas are, not how bad my bad ideas are. And it was, it's a very profound thing for a 20 year old to say, because he wanted the, you know, he recognized that we needed the freedom to kind of barf out all those ideas, you know, and so often as you know, when you're writing, it's not, you write down the bad idea because it's iterating, right? That it's like, that can build into a good idea, right? And so, so he was basically giving both of us the permission to just keep, keep the window as wide open as we could. And, and yeah, I mean, that, I forget why I started that story, but well, it doesn't have enough coffee. This coffee is terrific, by the way. If you want more, we can get you some. They say whenever someone writes their big, great American novel, and it's a big smash and everyone thinks it's genius, they have nine other ones in their drawer that they wrote before that. And I'm a big believer in you just have to do time. To me, the process doesn't change. Like you could look at your career or Ben's and say like, oh, you've clicked off, you guys have clicked off every single box that you would want to check. But still, when you show up, there's work to be done. And you have to be a little scared. And there are scenes where you think, I didn't get this. I got to try it again. And time in the edit room and all of that stuff. It's if they're paying you, it's work. Yeah. And it's, and, and we want to, we want to love everything we work on from now on, you know, it's kind of going back to your point. And, and yeah, it's where it's a hugely labor intensive thing to do. No matter what, you know, I mean, it's, it's, if you sign up for it, that that's, that means that you're, you're willing to, you know, you can't phone it in, you get it. Nor would I want to, you know, take a job for money that I was phoning. Like I never did that. I never, I always thought whatever I was working on had a chance to be great. Yeah. I was wrong most of the time. But, but, but it, but I was working with the intention of it being something really wonderful. But also people don't, the nice thing I have found is very smart. Simpson's writer, George Meyer told me this a long time ago, early in my career, when things were not going well, he said, people will remember you for your good work. And he's absolutely right. I think about that all the time. He said, you're just laying tile individually, and it's going to make a bigger mosaic, which is what you did with your life. And he was right that the, the work you made later on that didn't quite click with people, what they do is they seek out all these things you've made that are great. And then they almost rule the other ones out. So in your mind, you're saying, oh man, so many times I've been wrong, and that's not what anyone else would say. That's just what you would say. Yeah, exactly. I was just, it just made me think of someone like Shohei Otani, where they go, like whatever his career batting average ends up being, if it's 350 or whatever, 320, people aren't going to say, well, you know, he, he, he missed 680. Yeah, exactly. They're going to go, you know what I mean? Like I did go to the game and shout that at him for the day. Because even when the Red Sox are out of it, I still go to games and wear a Red Sox hat. Good for you, by the way. I do the same thing. I do do the same thing. I did have an experience once where Lauren Michael, sorry, I had an experience. I do that when I think my story is really good. No, Lauren Michaels years ago, this is a very name-droppy story, but he, it was that iconic, it's 2004. And the Red Sox are playing the Yankees, and the Red Sox are way down. And Lauren invited me to a Yankee game. And he said, we're going to pick up a friend on the way. And he didn't tell me who, and I'm sitting in the front of an SUV because he wanted me to make friend room for the friend. And we pull up and leaning against a street lamp is Jack Nicholson. And I'm, to this day, if I ran into Jack Nielsen, I can't be cool about it. But I just was like, just chill. And he, Jack Nielsen gets in the back and he just like, Jack, you know, Conan, I'm up in front in that awkward, like, and I lean through that, just a little slit of headrest. And I'm like, hi, Jack, you know, hey, Conan. And then we go off to the game. And what I remember is sitting with him and Lauren at this game. And Lauren had told me beforehand, don't wear a Red Sox cap because Lauren had these amazing seats. And he pretty much put all this pressure on me. So I went and I got a hat that had like the Swiss flag. It's like a black cap. I had to get a neutral cap because I thought it's Lauren's seats. Jack's a big Yankee fan. If I'm wearing a Red Sox cap next to them, this is rude. It was this very hard thing to do. So I just wore a neutral cap. What happened to you, man? I know, I know. I know, I know. It's Jack Nicholson and I buckled. So, but I remembered him. Pedro Martinez was pitching. And it's a game that the Red Sox lost just before they had this amazing comeback and ended up winning the World Series and breaking the curse. And Jack Nicholson was taunting Pedro Martinez. And he was shouting at him because it was getting a little later in the game. And he went, arms getting heavy, Pedro, arms getting heavy. And I'm like, fuck, that's good. That is so good. What a dick. It's Jack Nicholson. Arms getting, yeah, it's baseball. Yeah. Yeah. And then I got a nice moment with him on the, when we got home and got out of the car, he, he got out and I got out too to just say it was really nice hanging with you, Jack, tonight. And he went, he's, I guess his son was a big fan of the show. I didn't think Jack knew nothing about what I was doing, but he went, he was like, son's crazy about you, Conan. He said, I said, nice to meet you, Johnny. Nice to meet you too, Conan. Son's crazy about you. It's Conan this, Conan that, driving me fucking crazy. That's great. I was so happy. I like got back in the car and I sat back with Lauren. I didn't get in the front seat this time. I'm like, I'm back here. We're Jack Nicholson's hat. He'll forget true tomorrow. But it is, you know, I love to time travel. I love to go back to the guy in the crappy used car that I bought for literally a couple of hundred bucks at the airport from a rent to wreck and put on counter makeup and then think about the things I get to do now or the things I've been able to do or had the good fortune to do. And I just love time traveling back and forth to visit that guy and go, isn't this crazy? I mean, if you showed up to the you who's a teenager and really into acting and said, this is what's going to happen, what a delight. Well, and also to have kind of feel like you won the lottery, but your best friend won it too. And so we've talked about that, Ben and I, and also just the fact that it didn't seem weird to us in the 1980s that we were 14 and 16 years old and 15 and 16 and going to New York by ourselves to audition for things. Until we had kids, I think that were that age and we were like, fucking believe that we were just go, would you just let this kid go to San Francisco for the day by themselves? Right? You know, but it seemed totally normal to us. We didn't have families that were in the business. Well, you know, Boston, there's nobody in the entertainment business up there. I'm telling you, I think your parents were not in the business. My dad was a microbiologist and my mom's a estate lawyer. And I never saw anything. There was a local show called Zoom. Yeah, of course. And Zoom had kid actors in it and it was made in Boston. And at the end, they'd say, you know, made of the studio in Boston. And I just couldn't believe someone was making something for television that was in Boston. And so those Zoom kids were like the Beatles to me. I just couldn't believe. But I didn't see anybody. I just didn't see anyone. And then Robert Urik made Spencer for hire, which took place in Boston. That was a big deal. That was a huge deal. Yeah, we used to watch it every week. Just, you know, it was, you know, and then sometimes you'd go and you see trucks and you were like, oh my god, I think they're shooting here. Well, I remember they shot an episode and they used my high school. This is long after I've left high school. I'm a writer at Saturday Night Live at this point. And I'm in my early 20s and I'm at Senate Live in this episode. And we were just hanging around the offices, flipping channels at night. And there was Spencer for hire and they shot it at my high school. And I became that dick who sat there. I was like, well, that's my high school. And then Robert Urik's running through the hallways and he went, you can't get from this science wing to the gym. Using the A level stairs. How what are they thinking? What an idiot. Right. But, you know, and I believe your mom was, was she into child psychology? She was a professor of early childhood education. Yeah. I, my wife's mother who passed recently, lovely woman Pam, she had done a lot of work, I think, learning about kids and development and also as a therapist. And so when I would talk to her, sometimes I'd be reminded, oh no, I'm just telling her the problems with my day. And then I realized that she's has this incredible intelligence and knowledge that she would apply to it. And she's, I realized, oh, she's psychoanalyst. Did you have that from your mom? No, I think in the sense that she understood the stages of development of child development and, and gave my brother and me a kind of everything we needed to, to, for our brains to develop the way they were supposed to develop. Oh, that's good. In the sense that, you know, I mean, back then her, her big bugaboo was like screens was television. Yeah. Yeah. How much TV do you watch? What are you watching? And now it's just the, you know, completely just jumped a shark with, with screens and, and, and, you know, the ubiquity of them and what that means for kids and brain development and stuff like that. And it were basically, you know, this is, you know, a species wide experiment at this point. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because there are these natural things that have to happen for, you know, and it's like open ended play and things like that for kids that really just help them figure out all the strategies to kind of figure out the world. And boredom. Right. You need boredom. Boredom was, was great. I mean, remember how bored you'd be as a kid and then you'd figure something out, you know, you'd figure out a way to entertain yourself or you go make something up or you, you know, um, I would always say to my wife early on, we got to leave plenty of room for them to be bored. And she said, don't you worry. You know, just tell more of your, when I was a kid stories. Tell your Nicholson story again. Kids, kids, he's a big deal. But no, I mean that you're exactly right. It's exactly right. You have to, you have to leave room for all of that. And then, um, I do worry about it. I think it's a scary thing. Yeah, me too. Me too. I don't know where we're going. When I walked through airports and I just thought of this when I was in Hong Kong, just recently everyone was on their screen and sometimes people would just click. I mean, and they're not even kids anymore. It's everybody. And you just feel like- I see it for, with myself, like I, how quickly I, I'll allow my attention to kind of get colonized by these devices, this device where I'll just sit there and disappear down a rabbit hole and watch a bunch of, and then an hour goes by and you go, well, wait a minute, like that. Like Chris Nolan's very famously doesn't have a smartphone and, and, and I think he said kind of publicly, it's just he, he, he wants to preserve that time that the exact time we're talking about where he can think about things more deeply. Let your mind wander. Let your mind wander rather than just instantly give it the, you know, the dopamine hit of, of, of, of, you know, candy crushers. That's what you're doing for an hour? No, no. No, I play backgammon on my phone. I'm like, I've got a quick game of backgammon. It's like, how do I do it? You know, they should do, you should do one more born movie where you're just, where you're just on your phone, Jason's on his phone the whole time alone. And then he's back to the CIA and everyone's just on their phone. And the back guys too. They're not looking for him really. They're not looking for you. You're not running from them. Nothing's getting done. And then the tech, the tech overlords are making trillions of dollars. That's the movie. You know, I, I really enjoyed the rip. I want to make sure I get it out there that Steven Yon's in this. You have a great cast. It's a great cast. Teyana Taylor, Steven Yon. I mean, it's Kyle Chandler's in it. There's just a wonderful group of actors. There was one moment where when I was watching it, and I think I heard him before I saw him, but I heard Kyle Chandler's voice and he said something a little like, you know, now what are we doing here? And I just heard the coach, you know, and I'm like, coach, you know. But again, he plays someone completely different. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're all really good actors. Steven Yon, I've done, he's a friend and we've done a lot of stuff together. And I just, I just adore him. So do I. And he actually just, he went from doing that to Ben directed another movie that's going to come out next year that Steven's in. He's in that as well. He's just, we love him. Also, I want to point out the story here is a really interesting one because, and I'm not going to give anything away, but the rip refers to money that I guess has been seized in illegal activity. And you guys, there's so much great lingo in this movie. Yeah. It's all real cop lingo. It's all based on, you know, Joe Carnahan wrote it and directed it. And it's based on the experience of, loosely based on the experience of this kind of unit down in Miami that, you know, they go to, you know, they have units that go looking for drugs. And then they have units that go looking for money, for drug money, basically, and dogs literally that sniff for drugs and dogs that sniff for cash. That I didn't know when I saw the movie. Yeah, I didn't either. You get to this one house and the dog is sniffing and you know that there's cash inside. And I thought, I've never heard of that. A dog that knows there's cash in there. You know, they'll soon have one that can detect Bitcoin, you know. Oh, that server. But it was, it spoke a little bit. It just knows servers. Wait, the dog speaks and it's looking for Bitcoin? We're skipping past the fact that the dog speaks. I think it's more impressive that it can smell, you know, various, various chips. Matt's writing now, don't do this podcast again. No, no, no, I'm just on the thought experiment. Both Matt's are writing. I always like it that the least impressive thing an animal does is speak. And it's more like, how did he know which door to go in? Go on, go on. Wow, he seems to know which door to go in. He did speak. But one of the things the film does is you have to try and figure out who's playing what angle and, you know, who's, who's right, who isn't right, who's a good person, who's a bad person. And I was calling it. I was being that wise ass. All right, this and I got it wrong. Yeah, you don't know who's who really. And it's these guys, they hit this house, they think there's going to be, you know, 75,000 or $150,000 in the house. And suddenly they find $20 million in the wall. And they know that that means it's cartel money, which means that they're probably going to come try to get it. They know, you know, so it suddenly becomes this kind of, they're stuck in this house because they have to count the money on site, which is, which is a rule because they're to kind of, I didn't know that either. Yeah. Before they can bring it in. At least in Miami, that's the. You have to count it all on the site because it's too easy for someone, if it's a amount of money like that, someone could take $600,000 and put it in their pocket. And then that's just what the count was. So you have to count it there. You have to count it together and make sure that everybody agrees what the count is. And then you go and you, and you deposit, you know, you drop it off and they count it. And it's got to match the number that you report and all of that. So, so that's, but meanwhile you have these, these cops who are, you know, their captain has just been killed, you know, at the start of the movie. And so you're kind of going, something's going on with these guys. Is there corruption within this unit? Are these people corrupt? Are they, are they supposed heroes of the movie? Are the heroes, yeah. Can we trust the heroes of the movie? And you don't know. And that's kind of the fun of the movie. And I do love the jargon. And afterwards I was walking around the house, say, someone jacked my rip. And Liza was like, shut up. I enjoyed it too, but shut up. Well, I really enjoyed it. And I think I've interviewed you a number of times over the years, but I love it when you stop by and check in. Because I mean, I'm a huge fan of you and your career and your work. And you're a very, you're a very nice, thoughtful, funny guy. So I love to hang with you. Back at you, man. I'll come back next time. I'm not sure we have a space. Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry. Hey, okay, thanks. Do you realize I haven't heard that in a while? Yeah. Matt, this was an audition to get on the podcast. Did you know that? Yeah, I'm out of practice. Yeah, we'll let you know. Thank you. Thank you so much. You do have my contact information, right? That's how big this podcast has become. Matt has to come in and audition. But yeah, thank you so much for doing this. Appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate it, guys. Thank you. I was sitting around the other day and my buddy Matt Myra texted me a picture that you might be interested in. If we could throw it up on there, sure. Oh my God, what is that? This is a sign that's posted outside one of your former residences, the Cochrane Avenue apartment. Did you know about this? I didn't. Where is this? It's in LA, right? Oh, okay. Yes, I live in this apartment. Of course I do. This is a formative part of my life. When I was first getting started in LA, Greg, Daniels and I, our first place, he was my writing partner. He's gone on to many great things. He and I share an apartment in Brentwood first. Then we realized we need to move out of the West Side and be with the young people because both of us were just desperate to meet anyone our age and have social lives. We both moved into Hollywood and I found an apartment, a friend of mine, Cynthia Stevenson, actress, a very talented, incredible woman. She said, hey, Conan, I'm leaving my apartment. Do you want to take it over? And it was on Cochrane Avenue. I moved into, it was a first floor apartment. This would have been 1986, I think. I think I lived there, 86, 87, 88. I didn't go out and shop for any furniture. The only thing I... He says that in the sun. Oh, it does? And for the listener, they can see this on at Team Coco Podcast on Instagram as well as our YouTube channel. And here's what the sign says. Conan O'Brien, former Cochrane Avenue resident. There's a picture of you as kind of like a bronze bust. Conan Christopher O'Brien is an Emmy-winning writer, comedian and host who redefined late night television. From Saturday Live to The Simpsons to his own groundbreaking shows, he has brought laughter to millions. Like, this is a fact check on that. Hundreds, hundreds. In 2025, he added another milestone, hosting the Academy Awards. In the 1980s, Conan lived right here on Cochrane Avenue, finishing his apartment with street finds and surviving on ramen noodles and tuna mixed with Miracle Whip. Yes. Oh, God. It was a time of struggle, ingenuity and questionable mayonnaise-based decisions. From these humble beginnings, this street witnessed the rise of a comedy icon. May this moment, parentheses, a poster affixed with... zip ties, inspire Cochrane Avenue residents to chase their dreams, enhance their originality and one day upgrade to a home with more than one bathroom. So this is temporary. I didn't realize this. It's foam core poster work. Oh, we have to. I mean, my God, we've got to... Oh, wow. Look at this. Dedicated February 27th, 2025 by the Cochrane Committee of Conan Connoisseurs. Actually, just one guy who lives on Cochrane Avenue, occasionally listens to Conan's podcast, had some free time and no real authority to put up a monument, but did it anyway. Who is this guy? Orgel. Okay. It says actually just one guy. Oh, sorry. I was trying to accuse you being sexist. When actually you're just guilty of paying attention. It could be. No. Oh. Well, first of all, I want to thank this guy because that's really funny and old me. I always think of Ghost Me, the 160-pound Conan who lived at Cochrane Avenue and furnished his apartment with all stuff I found on Cochrane Avenue. Oh, God. It's just flea-ridden? I mean, it's just like tables. People used to just put furniture out. I've done that. Yeah. I lamps everything and one of my friends gave me a cutout of the Miss America winner that he had a life-size cutout of her in a gown holding with her sash. Your friend gave it to you. You bought it and it was your girlfriend. Yes and yes. No shout out to Randy Climpert who gave it to me. And I had it in my apartment along with furniture I found and I thought everything was just fine and lived off of that diet of ramen noodles. So tuna mixed with miracle? Yeah. Wait, did you come up with this? No. That's an abomination. I know. I think it was something that happened back at Cunard. I think the crime started in Brookline, Massachusetts and then I brought it with me. That's listed with shellfish in the Bible as an abomination. Yes. Yes. And so am I, by the way. And so, yeah, I lived on Cochrane and now someone, this is the part of this culture that I find endlessly fun is someone made that and then put these, all these self-deprecating disclaimers at the bottom. And it's really fun. I just love that. And I love that someone is memorializing my life on Cochrane Avenue. Back in the day, yeah, I would say 86 to 88. And then I left that apartment to go to, I believe, Saturday Night Live. Did Miss America come with you? She did. And I was married to her for a while. I was married to her cardboard cut out for five years and then she left me. Oh, no. Yeah, she said emotional cruelty. You left her out in the rain. Yeah, yeah, I was crying. She was with Bezos for a while. Anyway, yeah, he built a yacht for her made of cardboard. They sailed the seven seas until the boat fell apart. Recycled into some Amazon packaging. Yeah, she's now a packing tube. Anyway. That's really cute that a fan did that for you. It is. What's that? That's really cool and cute that a fan did that for you. Yeah, I think that. A shout out to that fan. That was a very fun, cool happening to create. Yeah, whatever gender he is. I love that. And you know what? Occasionally, I passed that apartment not too long ago. I passed that apartment because when I'm driving from my house to our studio, I get off the 10 and it depends on what eggs that I take. And I start cutting north to our Hollywood, Larchmont, you know, recording studio. And sometimes I'll find myself on Cochrane and I always pause and just look at that apartment and go, oh, yeah, that kid did OK. He did all right. And then a policeman always says, move it along. Nothing to see here. He's in 1920s. He's got that little bag. He's got the night stick. Yeah, the night stick. Buton. All right, moving along. Move it along there. No more visiting ghost you of 1986. Move it. He always knows exactly what I'm doing. That's just a trick of the mind. Move it along. No more ghost you. Those days are past. There's only now. There's no future. There's no past. I'm like, wow, he's done a lot of work. Oh, no, it's a Buddhist mantra. He's the ghost. All right. Well, anyway, thank you, random fan who occasionally listens. Whoever you are, that was a cool thing to do. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Gorely, produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leo. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Khan. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com.com. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.