From 30 for 30 podcasts. Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing what's about. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. They're placing the arrest. We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now. This is tonight's ESPN NHL doubleheader. Love that music. Flyers, Rangers at 8 Eastern, then Oilers will go up against the Kings like everything else, both also available on the ESPN app. Back to basketball now. The Lakers will take on the Suns tonight in Phoenix. The Lakers have a two-game lead over the Suns for the sixth playoff spot to stay out of the play-in in the Western Conference after losing their last four games against teams over 500. The Lakers are also the only team in the NBA above .500 with a negative point differential. Obviously, we go back to Luka Doncic in that last game. Do you trust Luka? J. Will, as Brian Windhorst is back here with us on First Take, do you trust him to lead a championship team? No, I think Luka is one of the most talented players I've ever seen in the history of the game, but I think he has losing habits. I think he has bad habits. And there are two interesting factors I think really play into his impact on the game is not aligned with the statistical output. Right. You see the crazy numbers, but I don't know if it impacts winning. Number one of that is right. He leads the NBA in turnovers per game. The Lakers are one of the worst transition defenses in the league. So that impacts that aspect of it because they're not good at that. Secondly, was a stat that I saw online that really blew my mind. So, you know, 13 players in the NBA this season who have played in at least 30 games and who have a usage rate of over 30. Where do you think Luka is of those 13 players in the NBA this season? Last. He's tied for last with Kawhi Leonard. With Kawhi Leonard. An impact. This is in team offensive rating, Stephen A. Team offensive rating for the 13 players in at least 30 games who have a usage rate of over 30, he's tied for last. So with those two things, and you watch a guy like Giannis, who had less than him, his offensive rating is better. Steph, offensive team rating is better. Kay Cunningham, team offensive rating, better. I can keep going down the list of the teams where their team offensive rating is better. So at some point, when you see him every single play, screaming at the refs, yelling at the refs, not even getting back in the frame defensively, I know a lot of the talk is going to be about LeBron. A lot of the talk is how they can play together. But at some point, I think he's one of the most talented players. I just don't know if he's the leader that people are projecting him to be that actually match his statistical output. I think they're very different, and I think he has bad habits. Well, let me ask you this question, Jay, before I say what I have to say. Then why is he considered a superstar? I think you could be a superstar, but it doesn't mean that you're the right leader. And the only thing I would say for you is this, Stephen A. You and I have known Nico Harrison for a long time, right? You've known him for a long time. Yeah. Do you admire him? Do you think he's a pragmatic person? I think he's a pragmatic person, but I think he worked against him with this particular situation. I think the pragmatism really, really worked against him. But he is a pragmatic person, and I do respect him. So I'll just say this. I've known Nico since I've been 13 years old. I'm not saying I agree with the decision, But I say there has to be something that a person like him who's been around Kobe for most of his life had to see behind closed doors. They would push him to the point to even consider that. To even consider that. OK. OK. But I'm saying it's right. You know what I mean? Respect. Respect. I know you are. But respectfully, he's unemployed. Yeah. He's unemployed for a reason. What does that do with. And he's unemployed for a reason. In other words, the guy is 25 at the time and an iconic basketball brand. That pragmatism usurped all the other elements that Luka Doncic brought to the table, which you can appreciate this, Jay. It compromised their bottom line. You know you don't do that. You never do that. That's what he did, and that's why it's so shocking that he allowed that pragmatism to be usurped by other things. I understand the reason why, because you're dealing with COVID, you're dealing with MJ in your lifetime and all this other stuff, and then you see a cat that's lackadaisical that ain't putting in the work and stuff like that. I get it. I understand it. But if you're going to make the deal, it can't be like a thief and a knife with a Lakers squad that only gives you Anthony Davis, Max McClick, and a first-round pick. So that's it. So now, having said that, let me say this. You're not wrong with what you're saying about Luka Doncic, but you don't teach the skill set that he brings to the table. is the NBA's leading scorer. Yes, he's leading in turnovers per game as well. He's also number one in usage rate. The real issue with Luka, you can overcome all of that stuff and figure it out if that man plays some defense. The fact that he can't stop a cold is the real problem. The fact that he doesn't give it to you nearly as much on a defensive end of the floor than he does on the offensive end of the floor is the real issue. because we've seen, even with the great Kobe Bryant, there have been times where there were times where people was like, you know, kid is hungry. You know, he was thirsty, rather. You know, he wants the ball. He's going to jack up shots. He's going to do this. He's going to do that. And they would say, well, it's ill-advised. It's not the way to go, et cetera, et cetera. You heard some of these things. But what you couldn't question was the devotion and the relentless effort that he put forth on both ends of the floor to try to make up for whatever potential deficiencies he may have had elsewhere. And that's what you're not getting from Luka. So I get where you're coming from. I understand it. And I think that when you talk about lead, the operative word here is lead, a championship team, that's part of leading. And that's what he's lacking. You can talk about his offensive hiccups here and there, but in the end it could be overcome if you were committed and dedicated to making sure that your game was complete as opposed to one-dimensional, meaning prioritizing one side of the ball considerably and conspicuously over the other. I think that's where the problem lies. Do you think he'll do it, S.A.? Do you have belief that he will do that? No. Okay. So I think at the end of the day, after a lot of that, you still agree with me. I think we all know there's been plenty of guys who can't defend who've led championship teams. I mean, you are right. He's defense. He turns into a cone. Like, that's true. Steph Curry, not a good defender. I mean, we saw for years in playoff series. But we didn't question his effort, Wendy. Well, that's true. You questioned his effort. Well, I don't question Luka's offensive effort. He's one of the most gifted offensive players I've ever seen. I do. Steph Curry's one of the most. Of course. I'm just saying teams have won championships with leading players who can't defend. There's been many of them done. Steph Curry. Steph Curry was attacked defensively. Steph is a willing fighter. Steph's game is so different. Steph gives up the ball. There's momentum with the ball. Luka just drags the ball out. Literally, the ball dies in his hands every possession. Well, that's a whole different system of offense. Obviously, the way Steph plays offensively is completely differently. Having said that, Luka is still one of the most gifted offensive players I've ever seen. I cannot believe the way this guy scores. He scores with an ease that I've almost never seen. Steph Curry has to work three times as hard to create a shot that Luka does because Luka is so much taller, and his skill of getting off a shot is unbelievable. But I'm not looking for a Steph debate. I'm just saying you can't just say that just because a guy can't defend, he can't leave a championship because we all know Luka can't defend. I think that he can, guys, because I've seen the Mavericks come pretty close. But I will say this. You're going to have to have the right team around him, And that means you're going to have to have three-point shooting, which the Lakers don't have. If you go back and look, the year that the Mavericks went to the finals a couple years ago, they were third in the league in three-pointers made. The Lakers are 23rd. And you were going to have to have protection for him defensively, just like the Warriors had protection defensively for Steph. They had a great defensive team outside of him. They were routinely in the top five defensively. Exactly. So it can be done. Now, I agree. As you guys know, I've gone quite viral for ripping Luka for his allowing himself to be taken out of games, basically by fouling out or being ejected from highly important games in his life. And he has absolutely got to get past that. There's no doubt about that. He can't be in a hugely important game in the finals where you're fighting for your team's championship life and you'd be out of the game because you've been ejected or you've fouled out because your effort is not acceptable. He's obviously got to get past that. But do I believe he can do it? Absolutely. This guy's talent level is incredible. And I would absolutely agree with everything that Nico was concerned about, Jay. Of course, his conditioning, and you're going to give him $300 million is a concern. I agree that there was really big concerns. What I don't agree on is giving up on him. And so I absolutely think he can do it. Will he do it? We're going to watch and find out. He's just been a pro since he's been 13 years old. So, yes, we talk about this early stage of his career, but a lot of these habits are defined. Like a lot of these habits. And, Wendy, I ultimately kind of agree with you if you put the right pieces around him. All I'm saying is what we're watching now is the ball dies in his hands, he doesn't have a high motor, and there's a lot of complaining each and every possession where it takes him out of the play defensively. Like, Stephen, you talk about him not being a good defender. He ain't even clip half the damn plays. He's not even on the defensive side of the court. He still in the 101 love fest yelling at the refs So when we think about leading I don question his offensive skill set at all Wendy I would agree with you I think his ceiling is probably the highest out of any player in the league I just don't know sometimes if the right mental fortitude is there to achieve who we want him to be. That's my concern. You could be right, but I ain't saying it to them. You ain't bad. That's fair. That's fair, Wendy. Listen, listen. When you're that gifted, when you're that offensively explosive, When you're that talented, you don't give up on somebody like that. We all understand that Nico Harrison had his concerns. I think ultimately where, you know, you look at the Dallas Mavericks with Nico and how it was foolhardy. It was not just his youth. It was not just what you got in return for him. It was also about the fact that he's a global iconic figure. So certain dudes pay for themselves. You know, the money that it costs you, what they can generate for you revenue-wise goes a long way as well. because it can offset some of the immediate or direct costs that you have as an organization. Jay, that's right up your alley. You know what I'm saying is true. And so when you look at it from that standpoint, to hold on to him probably would have been advisable. But at the very least, if you let him go, you sit up there and you put him on an open market because, my God, what could you have gotten in return for him? Anthony Davis ain't even on the Mavericks anymore, man. I mean, it's just a bet. They are so lucky they got Cooper Flagg. They really, really are. And that was like, I'm not giving them credit for that. They lucked up. You got lucky. The ping pong balls wasn't supposed to go in your direction. The odds were stacked against you. You lucked up and got Cooper flag. They don't deserve credit for that. So we just got to look at their decisions. But in the end, what it comes down to with Luka is this. Yeah, you got to have the right pieces around him. But like you said, Jay, if he's not even in the plays defensively because he's busy arguing with refs half the time and you're turning Mr. Nice Guy himself, I mean the modern-day Gandhi of basketball and Brian Windhorst, you got him going viral, going off on you. You know you're pretty damn bad in terms of your lack of effort and what have you. And that's what we're talking about here with Luka Doncic. We're talking about a guy that needs to care considerably more about what he does on the defensive end of the floor in order to be seen as the leader that he'll need to be in order to propel a team to a championship. Luka Doncic did lead a team to a finals, obviously, with the Mavs, winning one, a different story. Would it be better for the Browns at quarterback to go with Shadur or to go with Deshaun Watson? Kimberly Martin is at the NFL Combine, and she's going to join us from there and help us break that all down because she's a partial resident, it feels like, in Cleveland. Also, WWE superstar Jey Uso is coming up, and guess what? He is ready to go. He'll tell us what to expect inside the Elimination Chamber this Saturday That's next, his first take continues. Hello, it is Liv Morgan here. And Dirty Dominic Mysterio. And don't forget to watch Elimination Chamber this Saturday. Only on the ESPN app. Losers! The wait. The want. The will. The winner of this matchup goes on to WrestleMania. The Windy City. Stream Elimination Chamber, February 28th at 7 Eastern on the ESPN app with the ESPN Unlimited plan. Can't wait for that. We are lucky now to be joined by WWE superstar and one half of the world tag team champions. Jay Uso is with us here on First Take. Jay, thank you so much for hanging out with us this morning. So this time last year, you were coming off a somewhat unexpected Royal Rumble win. Then you surprised folks again for qualifying for the Elimination Chamber and a shot to face Drew McIntyre for the championship at WrestleMania. And so for those who continuously doubt you, what message do you have for them? man just keep watching your tv screen you know what i'm saying open your laptop up put your ipad up iphone out i'll be on there somewhere oost espn netflix this this saturday it's elimination chamber man pick one it was monday friday i'll be on there too but uh man just stay blessed man Stop hating, man. Come to one of these shows. You might change your vibe, booze. You feel me? Well, first of all, anybody that comes to the show is going to have a blast. I mean, y'all know what y'all doing. Big time entertainment, major, major props to y'all. I want to know, when you talk about the Elimination Chamber and what have you, I want to know how different is your mindset going into a match like this compared to what it is when you're going up against any other typical matchup. Could you explain that for a second, please, the difference between the two? man steven you walking into look at that thing man you walking in there oh yeah we got to bring that same energy that's some 2020 that's some right hand man energy but look at that thing it ain't no regular cage match it ain't no for you you feel me i mean look it's a dome man uh you yo yo you got to be ready you got to harden up i'm ready to go to the gym right now that you know i'm saying so i can so i can so i can be ready for this match man uh uh i think this and my third one, Oos. I'm excited, though. It's fun, man. Goosebumps. So, Jay, I know you're known for running it back with the Yeats. Can we expect to hear some of those Yeats mid-match at the elimination chamber? Maybe mid-convo here? I don't know. But if they asking for it, I'm going to give it to them every single time. That's why they pay money. Look at them hard-working people out there with their kids. getting with me, man. Why would I not give it to him, sis? Wow, I'm going to run it back every single time. Yes. Yes, I will. If I can, I will. When I think about these matches, I think about, you know, because everybody can't be in shape like you, my brother. We can try. But everybody can't be in shape like you. I want to know, when you think about, again, the Elimination Chamber compared to a Royal Rumble match per se, could you highlight for us what's the bigger toll on the body if there is a difference And if so, why is that the case? Yeah, Steven, I mean, there's still all the way around you, at least with the Royal Rumble match, man. You got bodies in there. I mean, it's easy to, you know, punch you in the face, or, you know, sometimes your punch might not be a little harder than mine, so I can take that. I can take that. But if you grab my head and, like, you know, try to damn ram my head into some steel or some bolts, there's chains right there, Uss. If I hit the change, like, you know, when your back, you know, man, just rub against some steel wire, ain't it, Uso? You feel me? It ain't it. There's no steel wire in the Royal Rumble match. Clearly, look, visually, that's the difference, Uso. So, Jay, you were a tag team champion a couple years ago with one of your opponents in the elimination chamber. That would be Cody Rhodes, friend of the program. He was here yesterday. How open are you to teaming up with him to target some other guys in the match? hey Cody my dog yeah if you want to talk some strategy man me and you tight you know I'm saying we get down we get jiggy that's tight hey we can get rid of everybody else we can get rid of the other four me and you run it back who's me and you we can do it man that's the strategy I'm gonna just throw it out there who's I mean we need strategy to win and make it to the last round the last round. Come on, man. Help me out. Help me out. Yeats. Yeats. All right, Jay. Thank you so much for taking the time. Have fun this weekend. We will be watching. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for having me. The 16th Annual WWE Elimination Chamber is Saturday at the United Center in Chicago. A spot in the men's and women's championship matches at WrestleMania 42 is on the line. Stream it exclusively with the ESPN Unlimited Plan live or on demand using that app, sign up, or log in with your TV provider to unlock your access. Coverage begins at 7 Eastern or Pacific. Coming up here on First Take, should Shadu or Sanders be the starter for the Browns in 2026, or could Deshaun Watson finally be the quarterback that they have been waiting for? That's next. In honor of Black History Month, ESPN is giving its flowers to black college marching bands, which are a major part of the HBCU experience. Today, we're spotlighting the University of Arkansas Pine Bluff marching musical machine of the Mid-South, known as M4. Hailing from the oldest public HBCU in Arkansas, they spread musical joy and spirit anytime they're in the spotlight. UAPB, take it away. Thank you. Lauren Williams' parents first noticed her talent for running at a young age when she beat the family German Shepherd in a race home and outran a Florence Griffin Joyner hologram at the Carnegie Science Center. She burst onto the Olympic track in 2004, claiming silver in the 100 meter dash. Eight years later, Williams won gold as a member of the 4x100 a relay team. You'll take your head and you'll be inspired. After injuries forced Williams to end her running career, she traded her track spikes for bobsled spikes. That's what I've got to make sure you go. Her first go as a brakeman in the summer of 2013 almost led Williams to quit I made it through the first day two trips but not optimistic about a second day To her surprise, she picked up the sports nuances quickly. In February 2014, Williams won silver in the two-woman bobsled to become the first American woman to ever medal in both the Summer and Winter Olympics. You can win as long as you can. Goosebumps. Medal in both Summer and Winter Olympics? I remember her as a sprinter. That's crazy. The voice of that piece is with us now, Kimberly Martin. Hi, K-Mart. She is with us from the Combine. How are we doing? Hey. Hey. I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys? We're just great. K-Mart's in Indianapolis right now, but she spends a lot of time in Cleveland, and that's where we're going to go right now. Because stop me if you've heard this before, but the Browns find themselves With quarterback questions this offseason, Shador Sanders and Deshaun Watson are expected to compete for the starting position this year after Watson missed all of last season with that Achilles injury. Head coach Todd Munkin spoke on Watson and the competition at the Combine. Listen to this. I think any time that you have a player that at one time has exhibited the skill set at an elite level, I think you're always going to give them the benefit of the doubt that somehow we might be able to get that out of them again. And I think that's how you should look at every player. I've said that. You guys have heard me say it. I'm going to let it play out. I think it would be completely unfair just like it would be in any classroom setting, be it a history exam, and all the students walk in, and before they're actually given the exam, you give them a grade. Well, how would you give them a grade? based on male, female, race, how they look, how they're dressed. I think that's unfair. Okay, so he's going to wait and see, but yet he did point out, obviously, Deshaun Watson's elite skill level or what we had seen in the past. Kimberly, what was your reaction to what Todd Munkin said? Standing there listening to Todd Munkin, I thought, oh, I'm going to be spending a lot more time in Cleveland this year. I think fans watched Adora last year and this season as the starter and felt good. While the win-loss record wasn't where the team wanted it to be, they saw flashes. They saw a guy who could be our starting quarterback. And I think fans, Browns fans, had kind of moved on from the thought of Deshaun Watson actually being the starter. But I can tell you, if you look at their quarterback room, they're expecting Deshaun to be healthy and skill-wise. He's the most talented guy in the roster. We haven't seen Deshaun of old in a long time. but once Todd Munkin said that, I thought, okay, this will be really interesting because we don't know who they might add in free agency or the draft. So there could be an influx of another quarterback in this room, but right now Deshaun Watson is very much a part of this, which I don't think a lot of people were expecting. I think there's two teams that are realistically or should be looking to 27 for their quarterback answers, 2027. I think the Jets are one and I think the Browns are another. If you were asking me, like, where this room sits right now and where that competition should potentially be or who has the advantage or who should get the leg up, I would tell you Shadur Sanders. Shadur Sanders, to Kimberly's point last year, had some moments that were good, but eight touchdowns, 11 picks, not super accurate in a bad situation, not in a bad situation. So there's nothing that you sit there and say, like, yup, that's the guy. But I do think there's enough on the tape to say, let's give him the first crack. Deshaun Watson hasn't played football, let alone good football, in about five years and been healthy to do so. From 2022 to 2024, he was objectively a bottom five quarterback in the league for a lot of different reasons. I just don't think the Browns should bank on that coming back from the 2021 and 20 versions of Deshaun Watson. And so I think if you're Cleveland, like, hey, Shador, if you can take advantage of this opportunity and prove to everybody that you are starting quarterback, great. But more than likely, Cleveland's quarterback of the future is in that 2027 draft. We haven't even mentioned Dylan Gabriel, Stephen A. Go ahead. No, I'm damn sure not going to mention him. I'll leave that to Dan Olowski. I ain't going to mention Dylan Gabriel. I ain't thinking about Dylan Gabriel. I'm thinking about Shador Sanders. Let me say this to you. 16.7 points per game, 29 out of 32 teams. 59% completions, 26th amongst 30 qualifiers, 73 passer rating, 29th among 30 qualifiers, 36% success rate, 29th among 30 qualifiers. If you have those numbers and a new coach comes in and he's talking about he has seen elite skill level traits in you, he's giving you the benefit of the doubt, which is a plus, which is better than what Shador Sanders had last year. because with Kevin Stefanski and his staff, they seemed very reluctant to bring him on board. When they brought him on board, they seemed reluctant to give him an opportunity. When they gave him an opportunity, they seemed reluctant for him to shine. So bottom line is that this is a better situation for Shadour Sanders. There is no doubt about that. We wish him luck. He's got a lot to prove, like both of y'all have highlighted, but he does seem to be in a better situation with Todd Munkin in terms of a coach apparently willing to give him a chance. I'm going to bring up the name Deshaun Watson for this reason. When I see some of these stats for a guy that got paid $230 million guaranteed, 19 starts in four years, 19 starts, a 9-10 record, 61% completions, 19 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, and an 80 passer rating. And I'm thinking about this among 50 quarterbacks with at least 500 pass attempts since 2022, Dan and Kimberly. He was 42nd in completions, 48th in pass yards per attempt, 42nd in passer rating and had the second worst sack rate behind only Justin Fields. My God, how awful can you be? There's nowhere to go but up. And Deshaun Watson is still getting paid. Let me look on national TV and tell Deshaun Watson this. Considering the Cleveland situation, combined with the money you're still owed, if you can't win the starting job in Cleveland this year, you need to retire. You need to retire. It's over for you. You need to retire because there's no, I mean, there is no reason why Deshaun Watson, who made three Pro Bowls in four years before going to Cleveland, by the way, and we all know the history and all this, so we ain't here to talk about that. But the point is, damn it, you forget to play football too? That can't happen. So, yes, Shador Sanders right now, but there's no reason to believe that Deshaun Watson can't at least show up and possibly compete for the starting job in Cleveland. He can't do that. Bro, just retire. Well, Stephen took the words right out of my mouth because the question that Dana brought up, like, who would have the advantage in this quarterback battle, my mind would easily go to Deshaun Watson should have the advantage being that he's a veteran quarterback. He's seen it all. He used to be one of the best quarterbacks in the entire league. And so if Shador comes in and claims that spot, what does that say? But I can tell you both that even when Shador and Dylan Gabriel showed up and Deshaun Watson was still rehabbing, he felt like this is still my team. So while the fans and while we're looking at, oh, okay, will the Browns transition to Shador, where Deshaun Watson feels very much like this is still his offense, this is still his team. So we're going to see if he can stay healthy, get on the field, beat out these guys, and who else they might bring into this quarterback room. Should Deshaun Watson be considered a starting quarterback, Dan? No. Deshaun has not played good football in five years. No. That's why I can appreciate, I guess, his vantage point. This is Shador's opportunity. I don't think that Cleveland's going to add a big-name person to this room. And last year, Dylan Gabriel, I thought, outperformed Shador in the preseason and then really didn't do much with his opportunity. I thought Shador did more with his opportunity in the regular season. So unless Cleveland adds Malik Willis, and I don't think that's likely, or Kyler Murray, and I don't think that's likely, I just think this is either going to be Shador takes this and runs with it and does what a lot of people, I guess, don't expect him to do, or, once again, Cleveland is looking at 2027. Dan, here's what I'm saying. You're not wrong. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just asking you to see where myself and I think Kimberly is coming from from the standpoint when we point to the struggles that Shador Sanders had. What we're saying is, is that even though you have a head coach that's willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, saying let's get some personnel around them, let's get a new system around them, let's give them a chance because we've seen the potential. There is no doubt that if you're Deshaun Watson and you can show any semblance of what you once were, there's no reason for you, particularly considering the money that they're paying you, that they're not going to put you in a position where you have an opportunity to shine yourself. And I'm saying if you can't do it, like you're pointing out, he hasn't played good football in five years. Fine. If you can't do it, you need to retire because there's nothing definitively standing in his way. When you look at Shador Sanders based on his level of production, sure we believe that he can ultimately be an NFL quarterback, that he has a lot of improvement and he has some potential. But there's no reason to believe if you can ball at all, if you're Deshaun Watson, why you can't be the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns this upcoming season unless you're just straight trash. There's nothing standing in your way. Here's what I would push back on. If that's the case, if Shadour can't beat out Deshaun Watson, then Shadour's NFL future is about as bleak as he can get. That fair if Deshaun Watson still looks the same But I saying what if a miracle happens and he shows some semblance of what he used to be That all I saying I not saying he being bad but Jadore Sanders can even do that I'm saying it's hard to fathom, Kimberly, that Deshaun Watson just completely forgot how to play football. It's just hard. It's just hard. Injuries, coaching changes, all of it. Nothing came out. Okay, fair enough. We'll talk more about this later. Remember, Shador Sanders made seven starts. He completed almost 60% of his passes. Browns went three and four in the games that Shador did start. K-Mart, enjoy the Indianapolis NFL Combine. We will talk to you later, girlfriend. Kevin Durant had some choice words about if international basketball is catching up to the U.S. Scott Essay and J. Will fired up earlier. We'll go back to it next here on First Take. I'm saying in his words, he was alluding to the narrative that has been created and how everybody is coming at players like himself and LeBron and black players from America acting like they're responsible for bringing down the quality of play. They're the best players in the world. Of course they're going to go at them. What, are you going to go at Tyler Hero? Bro, of course they're going to go out with LeBron and Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant's the most skilled player in the history of the game. Yeah, it's going to be a thing. Hold on to time. One of the most skilled players in the history of the game who has never cheated the game. Never cheated the game. The brother shows up. All he wants to do is hoop. Okay. You know, load management with him. You know, taking his money for granted. He's not playing like somebody that's not a champion. He's pointing out, based on the narrative, and he said, I can read between the lines of what you're doing. This is how him and a lot of the players feel. You know them, and you know that's how they feel. Now, you can attack the veracity of their feelings or the legitimacy of their feelings, but there is no doubt that they feel that way. And a lot of times, us in the media, we're sitting back, and we're like, hey, you know what? When we go and we ask them these questions, we're aiming it at them. When he pointed out Luka and Jokic, for example, when have they been asked those questions? That's what he was saying. Okay, so that was earlier today on First Take, reacting to some words by Kevin Durant in terms of other countries catching up to Team USA basketball. Now we've had about an hour to let it marinate a little bit. I know we left some things on the table. Go ahead, Jay. So I just wanted to crystallize, SA, my point around the meat of what Kevin Durant was really saying. When I made mention of things that Kobe said about European basketball players, regardless of race, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird have all alluded to this, right? I'm going to give you an example of what I think this meant. So who is your favorite player in the NBA right now, Essay? Because you're my boy. We talk about ball all the time. Who is your guy in the league right now? My two favorite players are Ant-Man and Steph. Okay. So Ant-Man, right? Ant-Man, several weeks ago, literally said, I think the best tip Michael Jordan ever gave me, and you and I have talked about this, Essay, where, you know, it's about me when I play with my back to the basket, not using my ass, but using my middle of my back when I post up so I can feel which way the defender is coming so I can lean and I can pivot. Now, Anthony is one of the baddest men we have in the game of basketball today. He has played an average of 72-plus games in his sixth NBA season. Sixth NBA season. A little bit of that skill development. Those are things that guys like Kobe and these guys were talking about. It's not saying there can't be room for growth in your game, because there can be. Of course, each and every year you learn different things. But that's what these guys were alluding to. When people would say, hey, the Europeans are coming for you guys, that's what they're talking about. Now, it doesn't mean that NBA players here, American NBA players, they're still the better players because they're elite athleticism and they're still learning how to play. But it's more about the structural aspect of the game. Well, Jay, what I'm saying to you is that as you break that down, no dispute there, but let's specify what Kevin Durant said. It's still on the bottom of the screen. All I hear is AAU is destroying the game. The Euros do it right while the Americans do it wrong. Danny adds that line. It's a lot of BS with that. I can read between the lines. it's a shot at black American players. Because a lot of times they didn't just talk. When you hear people comparing European players to NBA players, it's not about their skill set or their ability and they stop there. It's about their fervor for the game and the fact that they come from nations that hold them accountable when it comes to effort. And whereas when we sit up there and we look at some of these players, whether it's All-Star Weekend, whether it's load management, whether it's folks' attitude towards the media or whatever, these guys are looking at it as they're being attacked. LeBron alluded to that last year when he talked about people talking bleep about the league all the damn time. That's the real problem. In other words, alluding to it not being about them. It's being about how they're talked about and how their transgressions or whatever word is appropriate is targeted as opposed to what's really, really going on. And so when you piggyback off of that, knowing that the players communicate with one another and a few people know how much they communicate with one another better than you, Jay. And you know that they share these kind of feelings. And then Kevin Durant comes out and says he can read between the lines you're attacking black players. You see the kind of attitude cats come up with. You see people talking about all the money that they make, how fortunate they are, and giving the impression you never enjoy a modicum of the success in life if it were not for a basketball. And they talk about those players in that way. These are the kind of things they absorb. You know this as a former elite college basketball player, as a former NBA player, as a guy who covers the league both collegiately and professionally, who has a bevy of relationships. you can argue as to whether or not their feelings are legitimate. But what there is no debating is the fact that you know as well as I do that a lot of them feel this way. And so when they feel this way, you have to ask the question why. And I think that when KD brings up comparisons to a Luka or a Jokic during All-Star Weekend to highlight the fact not that they didn't give effort or anything, but that they're never broached about it, that they're never criticized about it. But the American players are being targeted, and you know that predominantly most American basketball players happen to be black. You are going to feel the way that KD articulated his thoughts. I understand it, and that's why I sided with him 1,000 percent, because I'm saying what he's saying is a legitimate feeling that a lot of these guys have, and we owe it to them to acknowledge. They really, really do feel that way. They ain't bluffing about it. I acknowledge his feeling. I hear it. But his feeling is wrong. His feeling is wrong. So I hear everything that you articulated. But the reality is when you say, you know, we're controlling the sport, doesn't dominance invite evaluation? For Joe, he avoids it. Right? So this isn't attack black American things, even though you may feel that way. It's you the damn best players in the world. Best players in the world. they're attacking that that right but what i'm saying is go ahead the hijacking of the racial aspect of it turns away from the point of what you're turns away from you know what i mean that i'm with you i'm with you a thousand percent on that point in other words why bring it up because it detracts from the argument that part is valid but it doesn't make his feelings invalid it and it doesn't make it incorrect what you're saying is why go there because that's going to detract from the overall points that need to be made that's entirely different than saying that his actual emotional perspective is wrong he's one of those people that's experiencing it and feeling it i don't play basketball on that level i can't shine his shoes i can't speak to what he's I can say that when you're asking him those questions, if you didn't ask it to the European players, if you never broached them about it, if you never criticized them about it and your criticism and your cynicism is directed and compartmentalized and isolated for these great players who happen to be black, it does provide a level of justification for what he was saying. That's my point. You're so good. You're so good. Now I see why you're going to be on. Okay. I see it now. You just argued the fringes of it. I see it. I see it. Okay. We feel good now? Okay. I'm just saying. Okay. Okay. We'll have more First Take after the break. We'll be right back. The ESPN app is your home for WWE premium live events. To watch, sign up for the ESPN Unlimited plan. If you have one of these paid TV providers, ESPN Unlimited is included at no additional cost. Just head to activate.espn.com. Follow the step to get set up, and you are good to go. Then sign into the ESPN app, and boom! The biggest WWE premium live event, all in one place, anytime, anywhere. All right, so the Spurs are going for 11 street wins tonight against the Nets. Meanwhile, my Chicago Bulls are at home trying to get one win in the month of February. Essay, they've lost 10 straight. Can they get a win in the month of February tonight against the Blazers at home? You should be. It's against the Blazers, who's up and coming and stuff like that. But you should be able to do something. This is Chi-Town. They deserve a lot better than the basketball product they get right now. I'm rooting for them. Blazers are favored, by the way, by four and a half points. See you tomorrow. Oh, well.
