Summary
This episode tells the story of Alan Abel, a satirist and prankster who spent decades creating elaborate hoaxes, most famously the Society for Indecency to Naked Animals (SINA), a fake organization that convinced major media outlets and even the IRS that animals should wear clothes. The episode explores how Abel used humor, creativity, and media manipulation to challenge people's assumptions and create memorable cultural moments.
Insights
- Sustained hoaxes require meticulous planning, trusted collaborators, and understanding of how media verification processes work
- Credibility can be manufactured through consistent messaging, fake institutional addresses, and leveraging real public figures as spokespeople
- Media outlets in the 1950s-60s had minimal fact-checking mechanisms, making it easier to plant false stories through press releases and interviews
- Hoaxes can serve as social commentary and intellectual exercises rather than purely malicious deception
- Long-term creative partnerships require tolerance, shared vision, and mutual respect despite financial instability
Trends
Media gullibility and lack of verification standards in mid-20th century journalismUse of fictional authority figures and fake institutional infrastructure to establish credibilityCollaborative hoaxing as performance art and social commentaryExploitation of live television and radio formats before tape delay and fact-checkingPranksters as cultural critics using absurdist humor to provoke intellectual engagement
Topics
Media hoaxes and misinformationSatirical performance artJournalism verification practicesPublic relations and credibility constructionTelevision and radio broadcasting historyIRS audit proceduresCelebrity impersonationPolitical campaign satireAdvertising and press release strategyCollaborative creative partnerships
Companies
CBS
Network that employed Buck Henry as a writer while he was simultaneously performing as G. Clifford Prout Jr. on air
NBC
Broadcast G. Clifford Prout Jr. on the Today Show multiple times in 1959 without verifying the organization's legitimacy
The New York Times
Published Alan Abel's fake obituary in 1980 and later retracted it, marking the first obituary retraction in the pape...
Newsday
Published 1963 article about SINA with sewing patterns for animal clothing
Playboy Club
Hosted Alan Abel's live radio show 'Table Talk' where Jean called in as character Yeta Braunstein
NFL
Confirmed in 1983 that Alan Abel had successfully snuck a fake referee onto the Super Bowl field
People
Alan Abel
Satirist and hoaxer who created SINA and multiple other elaborate pranks spanning 50+ years; died in 2018 at age 94
Jean Abel
Alan's wife of nearly 60 years who collaborated on pranks, performed as character Yeta Braunstein, and provided inter...
Buck Henry
Actor and writer who portrayed G. Clifford Prout Jr. for SINA; later created Get Smart and co-wrote The Graduate
Jenny Abel
Alan and Jean's daughter born in 1972; participated in pranks and provided retrospective commentary on her father's work
Gene Abel
Picketer at White House protest for SINA, holding sign requesting clothes for Caroline Kennedy's pony Macaroni
Walter Cronkite
CBS news anchor who interviewed Buck Henry as G. Clifford Prout Jr., leading to discovery of the hoax
Jackie Kennedy
First Lady whose horses were target of SINA's picketing campaign in Washington DC
David Duke
Former KKK head whose 1991 gubernatorial campaign in Louisiana was targeted by Alan Abel's KKK symphony hoax
Hugh Hefner
Playboy founder who saw Alan Abel perform and gave him the radio show Table Talk at the Playboy Club
Mel Brooks
Co-creator with Buck Henry of the comedy show Get Smart
Quotes
"The Internal Revenue Service has no sense of humor."
Alan Abel•1964
"He just had this... I think a lot of it emanated from his father who had a small general store in Kishokton, Ohio. And Alan was that kind of guy. He would engage waiters and waitresses in conversation."
Jean Abel
"A kick in the intellect is what he used to say."
Alan Abel (via narrator)
"He was the news media conceded with a kind of irritated admiration, an American original."
New York Times obituary•2018
"My mom and my dad loved each other and the money didn't matter. They just wanted to do their art together."
Jenny Abel
Full Transcript
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Find out more at onepassword.com slash podcast offer and start securing every login. Hi, it's Phoebe. Today an episode that we originally made for our other show This Is Love. Sometimes a story will come along and we're not sure whether to make it for criminal or This Is Love because it could kind of go both ways. This is one of those stories. We hope you like it. In 1963, Newsday published an article about an organization that thought animals should be wearing clothes. The headline was, decency counts. The article included a sewing pattern. Boxer shorts for dog and horse. The pattern could also be used for cats, the writer noted, but with some minor adjustments. Quote, just ruffle the bottom and use a fancy print material. The New York Times wrote about this campaign too. After people showed up and picketed in front of the White House. They wanted the first lady, Jackie Kennedy, to put clothes on her horses. Gene Abel was one of the picketers. We called it Sinha, a society for indecency to naked animals. Gene says that during the protest she held up a sign that said, please put pants on macaroni. That was Caroline Kennedy's pony. He'd been a gift from Lyndon B. Johnson. Gene's husband, Al and Abel, was at the protest too. Picketing in DC had been Gene and Al and's idea. Actually, the whole thing had been their idea. Sinha, the society for indecency to naked animals, was a prank that they'd been running for years. How did you and Al in meat? Well, I came to New York looking for my unacting career. I'd already done some restock and studied speech and acting in college. And it was my time to try my luck. Gene saw a call for actresses in a newspaper. She answered the ad and ended up meeting Alan. He seemed very nice. At this point, I'd only spent maybe a month or so in New York. I'd met with various agents and they all seemed rather abrupt. They didn't want to spend more than five minutes getting to know you. But he took like 40 minutes and I'm trying to figure out why he was being so nice and kind to me. Alan was spending so much time talking to her because he was stalling. There was a man in the hallway waiting to talk to him about a prop tree he'd used for an off-broadway play and never returned. So he was being sued for that, a couple hundred bucks. So I didn't learn about, of course, the processor for quite some time after. But, meantime, we got, you know, very chummy. What can I say? Gene and Alan were married within the year. I'm Phoebe Judge and this is love. I can't say, you know, I fell for him immediately. But he certainly grew on me. That's for sure. He just had this, I don't know. I think a lot of it emanated from his father who had a small general store in Kishokton, Ohio. And Alan was that kind of guy. He would engage waiters and waitresses in conversation. He would step outside the norm to be kind and to be, to find other people interesting. And I kind of liked that. I thought that was very, that was unlike many of the fellows you would meet, you know. When Gene met Alan, he already knew what he wanted to do with his life. He just didn't know how he was going to do it. I think the thing that all started it all for him, when he went to Ohio State, he was giving the new freshman some sort of pep talk or something. In the process, he fell off to stage and he got laughs. They thought he was being funny. He actually fell off to stage without intent. But every time he rubbed his elbow or some other, you know, scratches his head or whatever, he got a laugh. And he liked laughter. He liked, he thought, ah. It was a few years after that when Alan came up with the idea that it would be funny to tell people to put clothes on animals. At the time, he was driving around the country performing music. He played the drums and he spent hours on the road. He was in Texas and all of a sudden along a highway in Texas, traffic stopped. There were cattle crossing the highway. And two particular lady and male cows were having a romantic affair. And people were just, the various reactions as he saw them in the cars ahead and behind in his rear of your mirror, were so interesting to him. He started writing in his head. He started writing this story. And it was about an association of people who were going to make animals wear clothes. Alan wrote to a couple newspapers pretending to be a spokesperson for the association. He wanted to see if they would take his letters seriously and publish them. They didn't. But he was still curious if he could get anyone else's attention. And so he started printing up pamphlets and leaving them along the way in motel drawers and restaurants and tables. Just trying to plant the idea. Alan wrote that the Society for Indecency to make it animals was founded by a man named G. Clifford Prout, who left his son, G. Clifford Prout, Jr. $400,000 to run it. Apparently, the rest of the Prout family was contesting G. Clifford Prout's will, but his son was determined to carry out his wishes. Soon Alan decided that writing press releases and pamphlets about Sina wasn't enough. He wanted people to be able to hear from G. Clifford Prout Jr. himself, so he convinced a friend, an aspiring actor to play him. G. Clifford Prout ended up being Buck Henry, our friend, who was at that point in his career. Not only an actor, but a writer. Buck Henry would eventually go on to create a comedy show with Mel Brooks called Get Smart. Then he'd co-write The Graduate, direct Heaven Can Wait with Warren Beatty and host Saturday Night Live ten times. But when Alan convinced him to play G. Clifford Prout Jr., Buck Henry was just starting out. So no one recognized him when he was interviewed about Sina on the Today Show in May of 1959. Or again, in June when the show invited him back. NBC advertised that G. Clifford Prout Jr. would return to the Today Show to talk about, quote, his theories of nudism. Newspapers across the country started writing about Sina. In the Austin American, one writer said, quote, if you hope as we did that these people are kidding, you're wrong. Now, this unusual device here is called a Sina Clothing Mobile, a vehicle attract that we send into small communities with a driver and a Sina member who can spot a naked animal at 50 feet. This is Alan Abel describing one of the ways Sina planned to get closed to more animals. He did interviews about Sina too, sometimes posing as Sina's vice president. The Closemobile never existed, but the Abel's did make fake Sina membership cards and some sample outfits. For an interview with one TV show, Alan brought a bag of clothes with him, as well as some diagrams of animals appropriately covered up. At one point, he pulled a large pair of pants out of his bag. They were for an elephant. Tell me about the idea for DC, picketing in DC. What was the plan? The plan was basically, Alan put out a lot of print material that alluded to, you know, thousands of people showing up to pick it. And we were going to be the four runners. Alan was Alan, myself, and his door man. And since Alan had made such a big deal of the plan, some reporters showed up too. And people going by and the cars were, you know, pausing and asking for leaflets and as builds, it builds, it builds. Even though they're only three of us, a few people joined in along the way just with the hell of it. But it was just three of us, but it made all the newspapers. In 1962, Alan Abel and Buck Henry visited the San Francisco Children's Zoo, which Buck Henry said they called, quote, the burlesque house of the animal world. Somehow, the daily herald in London picked up the story and wrote that, quote, crowds cheered as G. Clifford Proud Jr. attempted to put a pair of pants on a goat. Some reporters were much more skeptical about Sinna. When Buck Henry was interviewed by New York's Daily News, the writer said, quote, he's been on several TV shows. And thus far, no one has discovered whether he has his tongue wedged in his cheek. Alan Abel and Buck Henry told the press that Sinna had tens of thousands of members. But they made it clear that Sinna never asked for money. Once G. Naible remembers, they actually did get a check from a woman in Santa Barbara who wanted to support the cause. The woman sent it to Sinna's supposed office at 507 Fifth Avenue in New York City, which was actually a small closet, G. Naile invented. They sent the check back. In one interview, Alan said Sinna wouldn't accept money because it had been found with G. Clifford Proud Jr.'s inheritance from his father, $400,000. But then, Alan heard from the IRS. Eventually, IRS came looking for the taxes on that money. Jean says the IRS wanted to see Sinna's books. And he enjoyed the fracas one way or another. He would solve all kinds of problems as they came up. And I think he was even when the IRS called him in for an audit. He would be happy about it. I don't know why I wouldn't be. But he was always felt challenged. And he liked the challenge. To an IRS meeting, he would take a gift wrap tube and put a microphone in it in a shopping bag. So he could record it. I never felt worried that he was... Well, maybe I felt worried a few times that he might get arrested. Things started to fall apart after Buck Henry, playing G. Clifford Proud Jr. was interviewed by Walter Cronkite on CBS. It was a risky move because Buck Henry was about to start working at CBS as a writer for the Gary Moore Show. Well, it was found out that Buck was kind of right under their noses. He was right there writing for Gary Moore while he was still occasionally playing Buck up G. Clifford Proud. Gene says that eventually someone recognized him. And CBS realized they'd been pranked. Sinat wasn't real. Walter Cronkite was upset. And people started to realize that Alan Able was the one behind it all. Well, I think CBS also was for a period of time, was angry with him, wouldn't do anything. His picture was up on some billboard somewhere. Don't talk to this guy or whatever. In 1964, five years after Alan started Sinat, he admitted to a reporter for the Associated Press that it was all made up. He also said, quote, The Internal Revenue Service has no sense of humor. We'll be right back. Thanks to Squarespace for their support. Making a website can be intimidating, especially because it's often the first thing people see about your business. If you want to build a website that makes a great first impression on people, you don't need years of coding experience. You just need Squarespace. It's the all-in-one website platform made to help you stand out online. Squarespace has the tools you need to make your website look exactly how you want it to look. Sell your services and get paid no matter what business you're in. You can choose from a library of templates designed by professionals. Or if you don't want to scroll through all the template options, Squarespace's blueprint AI can build a website for you. In just a couple of minutes based on a few prompts, it'll pull from different templates to create the website you need. Go to squarespace.com slash criminal for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use the offer code criminal to save 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain. Support for criminal comes from Mint Mobile. Right now, Mint Mobile is offering 50% off three, six, or 12-month plans of unlimited premium wireless. You can bring your own phone and even your own number. They say you can activate with ESIM in minutes and start saving immediately. Then if you change your mind, they offer a seven-day money back guarantee. Our friend uses Mint Mobile and he says it couldn't be easier and he's already saved a bunch of money. Ready to stop paying more than you have to? New customers can make the switch today and for a limited time, get unlimited premium wireless for just $15 a month. Switched out at MintMobile.com slash Phoebe. That's MintMobile.com slash Phoebe. Up front payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12-month plan required, or $15 a month equivalent, taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Over 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy, capable device required, availability speed and coverage varies. Additional terms apply. SeemitMobile.com. Tell me the story about Yeta Braunstein. Oh, well, Yeta. Yeta, Yeta, where are you? This was something I invented. Alan once did a radio show from the Playboy Club. It was new at that time and Hugh Hefner had seen him and put him in that role. And it was a colon show and people could respond. And I would call in as different characters. And Yeta was one. Alan's live radio show for Playboy was called Table Talk. When Jean called into the show as Yeta Braunstein, she introduced herself as a housewife. Quote, Yeta lives in the Bronx. She has a boy named Marvin. He plays the drums badly. The show with the Playboy Club didn't last long, I think, three months. But we thought Yeta can't be hanging out there doing nothing. Yeta has to do something. The campaign was on, on Johnison, and what was his name? Goldrich, to gold something. Barry Goldwater. So Alan decided that Yeta should run for president. Alan later said they wanted to find out if, quote, America was ready for a Jewish mother in the White House. Jean liked the idea and they started thinking about Yeta's campaign. They decided that you would run as a right in candidate for a party they called the Best Party. Yeta's platform would include National Bingo and putting a suggestion box on the fence of the White House. She also opposed the Vietnam War. Jean and Alan printed posters for Yeta, which included an address for the Best Party Headquarters, 507 Fifth Avenue, the same broom closet they'd used as the address for Sina. Then, Jean and Alan contacted radio stations, so Jean could give interviews as Yeta. She tried to stay away from TV. I never appeared because at the time I was still in my 20s and hardly a matron. Yeta was obviously older, so we ended up using Alan's mother's picture when we had to produce something. Here's Jean as Yeta on WNBC in New York. Yeta gets to be the first lady and also present. When the Democratic National Convention happened in New Jersey that year, Alan and Jean got 20 people to march around the Convention Center holding signs that said, vote for Yeta and also at least one sign with just the question, why not? In November 1964, the New York Times ran an article called, The Third Party, Mostly Extreme. The article read, there appears to be no national consensus for Bingo, and Mrs. Braunstein may fail to carry a single precinct. That turned out to be true since Yeta Braunstein wasn't even on the ballot. In 1972, Jean and Alan had a daughter, Jenny. By then, they'd spent about 13 years trying to pull off different pranks together. And Alan was still coming up with new ideas. Here's Jenny. He had just dressed up in bandages as Howard Hughes right before I was born. Alan, with his entire face covered in bandages and claiming to be Howard Hughes, announced at a press conference at the St. Regis Hotel in New York City that he planned to freeze himself, through cryogenics until the stock market was higher. And because the billionaire Howard Hughes was usually very private, 36 reporters actually showed up. Jenny remembers that even as a toddler, Alan would sometimes bring her in on his pranks. I do remember going on to the billbog show and eating a hair sandwich, or refusing to eat a hair sandwich. This was when Alan pretended to be a doctor investigating the quote, food properties of human hair. He said it had good protein. Jenny says even though they'd practiced together when the cameras were rolling, she refused to eat the fake sandwich. A little bit later though, Jenny and Alan got away with something bigger. My dad somehow caught wind of the fact that there was a train car, an old caboose, like a 1916 Duluth, Winnipeg, and Pacific caboose, that was down at the local train yard. Alan decided he wanted it. I mean, it was like, I don't know, 48-50 feet long and 8 feet wide. This is no small thing. It had the cupola on top and on the old classic looks of a caboose. The Ables lived in Connecticut, and the local planning and zoning commission wasn't so sure about the caboose. Of course, they said, no, no, no, you can't have a caboose. You know, blah, blah, blah. And my dad had taught me how to cry on cue. And nobody wants a crying kid in the room. So I think they just appeased my dad and said, okay, okay, okay, you got the permit. The Ables had a caboose-christening party for their neighbors. And over the next few years, Jenny grew up playing with it, and Alan often used it as his office. The Ables eventually sold their house, but as of 2023, the caboose is still there. Jenny remembers seeing her parents pull off other pranks too, like in 1983, when Alan sent a fake referee into the Super Bowl. I just remember the costume. I remember my dad having a fake referee costume. I don't know if he bought tickets. I don't even know how with security at the time in the 80s, they got through. But my dad had a fake referee and a fake police officer run onto the field. And I believe the fake referee called a few plays before they were pulled off the field. Someone realized it's a joke, they're not real. A few days after the game, the NFL confirmed that a fake referee had made it onto the field. The Iowa City Press also reported that Alan Abel had snuck onto the sidelines wearing a white medical jacket. One of Alan's most controversial hoaxes was in 1991. A few years before, David Duke, the former head of the KKK, had tried to run for president initially as a Democrat. In 1990, he ran for the U.S. Senate. And in 1991, he was campaigning to be the governor of Louisiana. And he was actually taken seriously. And that was what bothered Alan. And then, during his gubernatorial campaign, reports started coming out that David Duke had founded a KKK symphony, reportedly to rival the New York Philharmonic. When a reporter called David Duke, he wrote he was, quote, irritated and said, there is no KKK symphony orchestra. The hoax was eventually traced back to Alan Abel. And he told that same reporter he thought the KKK should be laughed at. And he always just wanted to get people engaged intellectually to get them to wake them up. A kick in the intellect is what he used to say. We'll be right back. Support for criminal comes from Home Chef. Cook like a chef in your own kitchen with Home Chef. They've worked with chefs like Gordon Ramsay to bring restaurant quality recipes straight to you. You can pick your meals from their different collections, like the Express Collection for Quick Meals, or the Culinary Collection which has premium ingredients. The recipes are all designed to help you feel confident in your kitchen. I liked that I could pick the types of meals I wanted, like protein packed or fiber rich recipes, and that I could customize how much time I wanted to spend cooking. They even have oven-ready meals and quick microwave lunches for busy days. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering criminal listeners 50% off in free shipping for your first box, plus free dessert for life. Go to HomeChef.com slash criminal. That's HomeChef.com slash criminal for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. HomeChef.com slash criminal must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Support for this show comes from Vanta. Vanta uses AI in automation to get you compliant fast, simplify your audit process, and unblock deals, so you can prove to customers that you take security seriously. You can think of Vanta as you're always on AI-powered security expert, who scales with you. That's why top startups like Cursor, Linear, and Replet use Vanta to get and stay secure. Get started at Vanta.com slash Vox. That's v-a-n-t-a dot com slash Vox. Vanta dot com slash Vox. By around 1980, Alan Able's hoaxes had made him a little famous, and Jean says there were conversations about making a movie about his life. When Alan went to meet with some producers about selling the rights to his life story, he ended up in an elevator with people who were talking about him. They didn't recognize who he was. And they're talking to each other about, well, if we wait around until he dies, we can talk to the Moodle and get a cheaper. It was basically that train of thinking. And that's what sparked him to figure, well, what if I die? Let's see what you do. Alan decided to fake his own death. He came up with a story that he died in Utah at a ski resort. He got in touch with some trusted friends to help him pull it off. There was a whole, like, really involved production. Like, he had a fake telephone number and his friend in Utah, who would corroborate the story that he had skied and lost control and, like, landed in the woods and died of a heart attack somewhere in Utah. And they had a fake funeral home director. The funeral director would corroborate his story on the newspaper called. Alan submitted news of his death to the New York Times, which published its obituary on January 2, 1980, with the headline, Alan Abel, satirist, created campaign to clothe animals. It read, he was 50 years old and lived in Manhattan and Westport, Connecticut. Mr. Abel made a point in his work of challenging the obvious and uttering the outrageous. In addition to his wife, he survived by a daughter, Jennifer. Alan hadn't told Jean about the plan to fake his own death. He didn't keep me waiting forever. I mean, knowing my husband as I did, I know he couldn't have been outskying out, out in wherever it was supposed to be, some western state. So I figured it was one more of those. Jenny was seven years old and Alan didn't tell her either. The way that I remember it, I had gone to school that day. Everyone was looking at me with these sorrow-filled eyes and expressions. Then my teacher approached me and said, I'm so sorry, Jennifer. I really didn't know what she was talking about, honestly. I said, what do you mean? She said, well, your dad died. And I was like, what? I just played basketball with my dad. I don't know what you're talking about. I wasn't really phased because I think a part of me knew that it was another hoax. Jean says Alan eventually called to say he was alive, but she doesn't remember exactly when. Did you have to confirm to anyone? Did anyone call you up and say, well, somebody, somebody left flowers and we never knew who that was. And there were calls from some of his friends, but that took another day or so. So by that time I knew it wasn't, but I guess I kept his, you know, I kept it quiet. I didn't divulge. And some of them said, I was just writing you a note when I thought, wait a minute. This is Alan Abel. And they threw it in the garbage instead. Alan waited a couple of days and then he organized a press conference to announce that he was alive. On January 4th, the New York Times ran another article, obituary disclosed as hoax. It was the first time in the newspapers history that it had to retract an obituary. Alan and Jean Abel were married for almost 60 years. What do you think was the key to your long marriage? Well, I guess I was tolerant for wanting. What was I going to do? I love the guy. It was hard sometimes. We went through a lot of different things up and down. And I mean, we lived sometimes on, you know, on the tip of a pin, for lack of money or whatever. We, it's amazing how things happened. Their daughter, Jenny, says her parents were always talking to each other about ideas and writing them down. She remembers that one prank involved throwing real money out the window of a fancy hotel suite. It's almost like it's symbolic of their whole relationship where they were fixated on money. They just, my mom and my dad loved each other and the money didn't matter. They just wanted to do their art together. Sometime around 2001, Alan was recording an interview with a TV show that wanted to talk about his pranks over the years. And apparently my father saw that the camera operator was suppressing laughter. And after the interview was over, my dad said, hey, do you want to go out to dinner? The cameraman was named Jeff. Alan thought he might get along well with Jenny. And my dad was, he was relentless. It's like, did you call Jeff? Did you call Jeff? Did you call Jeff over? Just, he wouldn't stop. So I finally called Jeff. We went on a date. I don't know if I would say it was love at first sight, but by the end of the night, the deal was sealed. Like, I just, I can't believe that my dad sent me up with him. Jenny and Jeff have been together for about 24 years. They have a son who Jenny says reminds her of her father. September, September 14, 2018, my dad died for real. And we got more than one call from the nearer times to make sure he was really dead. It was, you know, my mom and I were still grieving. But that part I found to be so, it was almost like funny. You know, I feel like if he saw that obituary, that the New York Times inevitably printed when he actually died, like, he wouldn't believe it. It was like almost a full page. It ran with the headline, Alan Able, Hoaxer extraordinaire, is parentheses on good authority, dead at 94. Quote, he was the news media conceded with a kind of irritated admiration, an American original. Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajiko, Lilith Clark, Lena Silason, and Megan Kanane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Seminetti. This episode was mixed by Michael Rayfield. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com, and you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program, Criminal Plus. You can listen to Criminal This Is Love and Phoebe Reeds' Mystery without any ads, plus you'll get bonus episodes. These are special episodes with me and Criminal Co-Creator Lauren Spore talking about everything from how we make our episodes to the crime stories that caught our attention that week to things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to patreon.com slash criminal. We're on Facebook at thisiscriminal and Instagram and TikTok at Criminal underscore podcast. We're also on youtube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Support for this show comes from Vanta. Vanta uses AI and automation to get you compliant fast, simplify your audit process, and unblock deals. So you can prove to customers that you take security seriously. You can think of Vanta as you're always on AI powered security expert, who scales with you. That's why top startups like Cursor, Linear, and Replet use Vanta to get and stay secure. Get started at vanta.com slash vox. That's vant.com slash vox. Vanta.com slash vox. This is advertiser content brought to you by Stonyfield Organic. Our cows, them going out to pasture, they love it. They're so excited to go out every day. They weight-rated the drawing. In fact, we milk them and we just open up the laneway and let them just go right out to pasture. I'm Rhonda Miller Goodrich and I'm a dairy farmer in Cabot Vermont. Our farm is Molliebrook Farm. We're an organic dairy farm and we are a supplier to Stonyfield. Molliebrook Farm has been in my husband's family since 1835. We started our organic transition in 2015. We had 53 acres of corn ground and of course we had to use herbicides and pesticides and the soil was dead. Really for all intense purposes. We stopped growing corn and stopped using herbicides and pesticides and we seeded that down to perennial grasses. 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